One of my favorite episodes. I would love to see more episodes where you find LDS teachings that you don’t think align with the Bible and give a scholar or informed member a chance to see how we put our teachings in agreement with the Book of Mormon, Bible, and modern teaching. You alluded to it in this video, but many times during your Book of Mormon videos you said I think the Bible said X which isn’t in agreement with what we believe, and never got an LDS perspective how we would reinterpret those passages and bring them into harmony. Grace is one you touched on in the past but there are others.
Every time I watch one of your videos I get closer to my LDS son, through understanding. I too think you did a wonderful job here and there is so much to unpack, please don’t add any more questions lol 😂 God bless you for this wonderful work of understanding you are performing. I am so grateful to have found your channel 🙏
I live outside of Utah. So seminary is totally different. And I'm called to teach it. Before school at 6:00. A.m. I'll tell you what I wish I could take his class. I really enjoyed your discussion. I know it would help me to listen to the professor more often.
As an evangelical like Jeff with many LDS friends, I find these conversations to be fascinating!!!! Thank you both for bringing your ideas, knowledge, personal experience and intellect into the conversation. Please keep these videos coming! I am gaining such a better understanding of different faith groups and how the LDS faith compares and contrasts to my own protestant/evangelical Christian faith.
I agree, this video is fascinating. This might be the best of all of the hello saints videos. With the professor’s knowledge of evangelical teachings he’s able to speak more clearly on the LDS perspective as it relates to evangelical teachings. And, the clarifications that we’re getting from Pastor Jeff are fantastic for LDS people to hear.
Dr. Taeger is my brother, I’m super proud of him and this type of conversation. I honestly wish it was just this easy all around to truly listen to each other and ask questions that are insightful and not hurtful, in every conversation. We are so quick to judge, get our opinion in and prove that what we believe is correct, I’ve been guilty of this as well.
I’m a convert and have been close to leaving the church a couple of times, one of which was due to doctrine. So, yes, I’ve exercised critical thinking throughout my membership. I think the general public needs to know that most of us are not blind followers. At the end of the day, I want to follow Jesus Christ and His example. And this is the Gospel that has brought be the closest to that endeavor.
I converted to the LDS faith 45 years ago and found this to be an interesting dialogue. I'm grateful that both view points could be shared in a respectful way. I have an evangelical older pastor friend who I absolutely love but he feels threatened with anything that has to do with the Book of Mormon so we made an agreement that we would continue to love each other to save our friendship and not bring up religion. I'd like to share this exchange with him but fear he will feel threatened. I enjoy hearing Christian sermons from other sources and have been edified by them but they have not caused me to want to leave the LDS church. As soon as I began to read the Book of Mormon 45 years ago, I knew it was from God and I'm grateful for my membership in the church. Thx again for sharing this exchange it helps to understand each other's fundamental beliefs, in the end we are all children of God and He knows and loves us deeply.
It is hard for many Christians to come to the realization that God is bigger than 66 scrolls of the Bible. It is hard for many in the LDS denomination to come to the realization that God is bigger than their denomination. When growing up RLDS, I heard the "we are the one true church" often...although not as often I think as it is repeated in the LDS. One thing that I have gained from leaving that denomination (after they became CoC and way leftist and somewhat abandoned roots) was a realization that God was bigger than the box I had put Him in. He was present in the first congregation (Evangelical) that I started attending. He was also present in the next congregation (Evangelical) I went to also. They absolutely missed on the clarity of the scriptures of the Book of Mormon and they are far from perfect, but God still moves there regularly. One day (I believe soon) I know that God will bring His church together and I believe He is starting to bring down some man-made denominational walls even now. He is a big big God. He is a good good God. Looking forward to Zion!
God is doing miraculous and marvelous things around the world, Jews and Muslims are having dreams of Christ, He is calling and gathering all of His children to Him (those that will hear Him). I like God's word in 2 Nephi 29: 7 from the Book of Mormon, "Know ye not that there are more nations than one? Know ye not that I, the Lord your God, have created all men, and that I remember those who are upon the isles of the sea; and that I rule in the heavens above and in the earth beneath; and I bring forth my word unto the children of men, yea, even upon all the nations of the earth? vs. 8 Know ye not that the testimony of two nations is a witness unto you that I am God, that I remember one nation like unto another? Wherefore, I speak the same words unto one nation like unto another. And when the two nations shall run together the testimony of the two nations shall run together also? vs. 11 For I command all men, both in the east and in the west, and in the north, and in the south, and in the islands of the sea, that they shall write the words which I speak unto them; for out of the books which shall be written I will judge the world, every man according to their works, according to that which is written (works=their desire to follow Christ and emulate Him).
@@joesimpson9230 It's hard for this Bible Christian to consider after the beauty of the various writers of the Bible that the BoM could be considered anything but a good and fantastical story written very poorly "and it came to pass" again and again. Love my LDS neighbors and friends and I'm reading to understand them better, but my mind, soul, spirit and strength (and the Bible itselfin so many places and ways) are telling me that our praying hearts are not adequate, in and of themselves, to discern truth from fiction.
One thing that I loved about this conversation is that once we get beyond the typical talking points that we hurl at each other there is a lot of nuance and really profound thought in both traditions.
So much Evangelical - LDS content I watch is Evangelicals asking unprepared LDS folks hard questions to trap them. THANK YOU for bringing on smart and prepared people like Dr Taeger to give an informed and thoughtful response to the hard questions.
I am LDS and went to a men's event at another church. There were several things that I found holy envy of and wish we opened up to discussion like this. Watching Hello Saints has helped me know how to fight criticism with curiosity. I would not have been open going to another churches event without this channel.
Pastor Jeff. I’m impressed with how much you have improved in your interactions with others and knowledge and understanding of my faith! For a while I thought your intentions were not sincere in what you were doing with The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saint’s but as time went on I began to go from unbelief to doubt to seeing you truly want to understand the Church, it’s religion and the members of my faith while adhering to your own faith. Well done! 👍
I liked seeing your react videos to the Book of Mormon while reading it alone, but it was more interesting to see you read third Nephi with Greg. I think you should do more videos where you challenge our scriptural interpretations or other doctrine with a knowledgeable church member in the room. It’s more interesting to see you react to a fuller understanding of the church rather than a partial understanding.
It would nice if the church put out study guides and authoritative commentary to accompany and contextualize their scripture, specifically the BOM / Pearl (I know it would be quite voluminous for D&C).
@@GabeClendenning I think some of the old institute study manuals are pretty good but could afford to be updated. The Doctrine and Covenants Instructor’s Guide Religion 324-325 from 1981 is pretty good and available in the Gospel Library app. Come Follow Me is good for “reading with a prayer in your heart,” but I agree it would also be valuable to have a more intellectual doctrinal guide for side-by-side study.
@@GabeClendenning My LDS neighbor gave me the BoM AND the student study guide. They're out there! Can;t say it makes it all make any more sense. If the foundation is bad the house will always lean.
Thank you for this conversation. I appreciate this moment today to turn my thoughts to our Savior and feel of His love for His children. What a beautiful addition to my day.
Thank you Pastor Jeff for this wonderful inter-faith discussion. I have been a practicing Latter Day Saint my whole life, and It warms my heart to see you conduct these interviews with the utmost curiosity and kindness. I have watched many of your podcasts and have always been impressed with your knowledge on the bible, but also with the way in which you treat our members. It literally brings me to tears to see someone of another faith, diligently try to understand and study our faith objectively. Sure we may have differences about what we believe, but I have always felt that God has more Grace then we can possibly understand in this mortal life. In the end, I truly don't think he will care if we drive up to the pearly gates in a bright red Ferrari, or a crappy beat up pinto hatch back with a bumper falling off. He doesn't care as much about the vehicle that we came in, as much as He cares that our car was always headed towards the gate. Much love to you my fiend. You're doing great work.
I love your analogy “He doesn’t care what vehicle we came in, as much as He cares that our car was always headed towards the gate”. I agree. I believe God, at the end of the day, that’s what He cares about.
I’m no longer Mormon, but I attended graduate school there and I was never discouraged from critical thinking and had academic freedom. I pushed the envelope a lot in my LDS history class and professor never called me into question.
@@kobidoggy7575 I simply don’t believe in any sort of supernatural. The evidence on which such claims are based is insufficient to convince me. I do however regret having resigned my membership, I wish I could undo that.
@@kobidoggy7575 I’m not sure why sometimes my responses disappear but I responded the day you asked. Basically I came to the point that the evidence for all supernatural claims is insufficient and not convincing. I do however regret resigning my church membership and wish I could undo it without rebaptism, I can’t bring myself to lie to the point I’d have to in a baptism interview.
Finally. So much better to see you converse with an expert, sharing true knowledge not just personal stories that don't represent the actual teachings of the church
My holy envy is how brave the evangelicals are in talking to strangers! When on the stair master at the gym, a gal started up a conversation with me. I was really hoping she was LDS and was going to share with me. I instantly knew she was evangelical when she unabashedly started using religious words. I wish she would have taken Jeff’s stance about learning to appreciate each other which is, thankfully, the position that I took so that we could hopefully continue as friends in Christ. Another day I saw her do the same thing to another woman and invited her to her church. That was SO awesome that she is out there “turning stones” like the rest of us should be. How we could all change the world if we were willing to witness of Christ without fear or just plain disinterest.
This has been one of my more favorite conversations that I have seen from you Pastor Jeff. Reason being that is got into foundational conversation about why our faiths are different but at the same time being able to respect the ground that each of us stand on. It makes the conversation so much more interesting rather than just having the mic drop moment. Thank you and keep up the great work and conversations!
Dr. Taeger you did a fantastic job on this podcast. Thank you for representing our spiritual and religious beliefs so well with Jeff McCullough . I do want to ask Jeff what do you hold as "Holy Envy" for our church and people?
The discussion around the 45 minute mark about holy envy and following Christ is wonderful. I’d highly recommend Dr. Anthony Sweat’s Easter 2018 talk on the subject of covenants and how the covenants we make are like a marriage. It is essentially what Pastor Jeff is teaching. This is what we believe. The concept of obedience and earning our way to heaven is not a church doctrine. We are obedient because we are trying to develop/build a relationship with our Savior and become more like him. Keeping our covenants is equivalent to developing a relationship. I think some of us in the church still struggle with this concept.
...I agree that developing a relationship with God is important. You stated, "The concept of obedience and earning our way to heaven is not a church doctrine." That's really great to hear! I think when your prophet quotes from the D&C 82:10 "I, the Lord, am bound when ye do what I say; but when ye do not what I say, ye have no promise." it really comes across like obedience to gain salvation. Is God really bound? I have no doubt that you don't feel you are earning your salvation, but I think we should be honest that LDS believe there are things you must do to receive exaltation.
@@BGCflyer Thanks for the note. That scripture is, again, referring to the concept of covenant relationships. In my reading, what the Lord is saying is that a covenant relationship is governed by the laws that God has put in place establishing the covenant. In a covenant with God, when we remain loyal to Him in the covenant, as a perfect being, God is stating in D&C 82 that we can have full faith and confidence in His fulfillment of the covenant. He is “bound”, because He is perfectly just and perfectly fulfills His covenant with us. If this were not true, we could not develop faith in Him. I think the analogy of marriage is helpful in that being loyal in the marriage covenant requires something of us every day, or at least to be mindful of it every day, beyond just the words we speak on our wedding day. Being faithful to our marriage vows takes daily effort, and the fruits of that effort are an increase of love for our partner, and an increase of gratitude for the blessing they are in our lives, to a point where we couldn’t ever imagine life without them. Moreover, as Dr. Sweat teaches, in a marriage, our partner’s attributes become our attributes. When we covenant with God to be faithful to Him and become followers of Christ, Christ’s merits become our merits through the covenant (marriage) relationship. His grace becomes our grace and we are made perfect through His merits, mercy and grace. As Dr. Sweat also teaches: we need to get rid of our “perfection” complex, and develop a “loyalty” complex. The amazing part is, as we become more loyal to Christ, we become more like Him. We begin to emulate the thing we love. Understanding that God has a law that He has established, and that He is perfectly bound by His own laws is a framework for understanding what a perfect being is, and is also required for faith to exist. But it should not transform us into obedient robots. The relationship, as pastor Jeff correctly points out, is the important part. But in my view, we develop faith in our relationship, and love for our partner as we do what he asks us to do. They build on each other in a perfectly virtuous cycle.
I’ve never heard the term “holy envy” before but I love it. As a Catholic, I see many things I admire about Protestant churches that I wish we would do.
I attend two different Bible churches because they have different emphasis on preaching and worship. It seems to satisfy my dual longings as I experience God.
This was a very interesting podcast. I really appreciate that how well-informed both of you are about each other's religions and how respectful and gentle you are as you sincerely seek understanding. I think this kind of discussion benefits people of all faiths.
I appreciate what Dr. Stephan Taege has to say and he did a great job, but the entire time I kept thinking, what would this conversation have been like if it were Elder Bednar? I know it will never happen, but Elder Bednar in these types of one-on-one interviews is so commanding with his statements.
Jeff - Sincere question for you. Do you acknowledge that you are interpreting Bible? What I mean is whenever you state your beliefs, and how they differ from mainstream Christianity (baptism, enduring, etc.) that you are interpreting the Bible the way you see it. I personally love many of your interpretations, others I disagree with, but independent of who agrees or does not agree with you, you as a Pastor are interpreting the Bible the way you see it. The reason I ask is because I've listened to so many other Protestant pastors preach, even debate on stage a wide range of theology and there is always a lack of consensus. The explanation is often that we "agree on the important things," yet that in itself is an interpretation of what is and is not vital to our salvation (see baptism, Priesthood authority, sacrament, tithing, sabbath day observance, morality, chastity, etc.). I guess what I'm asking you to answer is, do you view your beliefs as a personal interpretation of the Bible? Because if not, and you believe your beliefs are an exact understanding of the text.....which Protestant pastors are right...and which ones are wrong about these subjects? Sincerely interested in your view on this. Great conversation! One of my favorite videos!
As an evangelical I would say that first of all, all the things you listed above are not salvific in most of Protestantism. Some denominations may have formed over such issues, so that explains their bent, such as baptism by immersion only. The Bible has many principles that are very clear and others that are more grey areas of behavior, such as baptism of children vs. believers-only baptism. We are not "creedal" as I've heard LDS call us, but we follow the teachings of the 1st century church and OT (which were formalized in the face of heresies in the subsequent centuries) as to the three persons of one God: Father, Son/Human-incarnation and Spirit/indwelling (tho the latter various denominations would have different views on how the HS transforms us and if His gifts are still bestowed today or not. We agree that we are saved by faith alone in Christ alone. His atonement completely replaces the OT temple animal and grain sacrifices for various sins that must be paid for in order to enjoy fellowship with God. His righteousness is accounted to us as righteousness when we apply His faith and blood to us. Jesus=Emmanuel=God with us= Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world. For some denominations the saving relationship is more personal than for others, making how we live and why we do certain things, or not do them, different for each. And we all rely on the Bible alone as passed down thru history and preserved thru various cultural twists and turns, that in His church that He established shall remain and the gates of hell will never come against. Reformations, yes, but no restoration of something totally lost because God all thru history has always had a remnant people. That believers exist today is the proof that no restoration was needed. We still have the Bible, the old manuscripts, the faith in Jesus alone handed down from one generation to the next. We have the early church fathers following what they were taught by the original apostles, and the preservations of the words and experiences that were written by them. We have direct lineage that our minds can study and point back to. Hope that helps.
So as a Latter-Day Saint I feel like I’ve accepted Jesus Christ in my heart. I strive to follow him, with plenty of errors of course, but I strive to follow His example as He has asked us to do. I love Him, and accept Him as my Savior. He is my greatest example and I’ve felt His love so many times in my life. Do you believe I will be saved? Or do I need to become a Protestant?
@@GStar-qd5oiI believe it's possible for ANYONE to be saved and go to God (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit) in heaven after earthly death. As long as they believe in the Christ alone for their full salvation and what LDS call "exaltation" then yes. The veil on the temple was torn supernaturally when Jesus died, he was the final Priest. What he did on the cross was fully sufficient and our good deeds are seen as filthy RAGS to God. We are only able to get to heaven, to God bc we are clothed in Jesus's righteousness. Thats what it means that we are heirs along with him now. It's nothing we can do. I am concerned for my LDS friends who truly seem to love God and love a Savior but are told lies by the church that can interfere with their true salvation in Christ bc I do believe the Bible tells us who God is. It came first. The evidence of the Bible is what makes us know it's true. And then from there we can use it to know what we feel is true. It is very problematic to pray for a feeling so the spirit to know if a scripture is true. Even evil spirits can give you feelings in your body. Placebo effects or confirmation bias also can have you feel peace or that something is true. Evidence comes first, then it's reliable and I can now look back to that scripture to see if a feeling I have lines up with God's word and Spirit.
You say LDS people like me can go to Heaven. I’ve had other Protestant people, even many pastors during my mission tell me I can’t go to Heaven. You all read from the authority of The Bible. Who is right? This is about my Salvation. I need to know who is going to be right on this one. Who has the authority to interpret the Bible correctly? Do you? Or them?
@@GStar-qd5oi It's hard to convey on here bc it's an in-depth conversation. I believe God's word is the authority and I only see what we have in the Bible as holding up to the evidence needed to believe it's God's word. Therefore, who is saved is based on what I see in the Bible. I personally believe if an LDS member is saved it is in spite of their churches teachings. If you believe 100% in Jesus and the way to God the Father in the way LDS church says, I would be be concerned for your eternity. But I do believe it's nuanced. I believe ppl can be in a certain church, maybe not even fully take on all of that practice and actually have a proper view of Jesus and how they are to be saved. It's possible. I would hope they find a church that better aligns with scripture but anyway... It's nuanced in that sense.
It is interesting that you talked about the temple and then discussed in your perspective how the gospel is about being redeemed into God's presence. This is the symbolism and importance of the ordinances of the temple. In our temple worship we are reminded that we are being called to enter into his presence and return after the Fall
I had Dr Taeger as my New Testament professor last semester at BYU and love his insights! His ability to answer hard questions with a clear and thoughtful mindset is evidence of his strong education and research. This conversation was fulfilling to watch to the end and I appreciate Jeff’s willingness to have dialog with someone who really understands not just our religion but also how it compares to other branches of Christianity
"Above all else love one another", I appreciate this discussion's example that shows us all how to treat and even appreciate another person's differences. You helped me understand a little better, the majority of the world is on the same team, to further bless and move forward the children of God. Most religions are filled with good people trying to do what's right and good. Let's look for what is right and good in each other and listen for understanding. Thank you for teaching that so beautifully here!
God did not spare His flesh to save us from the evils of ourselves, but the world focuses on self, good and bad, right and wrong. Where's the humility and gratefulness in that?
Great Discussion. Jeff would also like to see a sit down discussion with Jared Halverson and yourself. I watch his TH-cam channel UNSHAKEN. That would be a great conversation. Hope to see it one day. 😉👍🏻
Dr Taeger spoke eloquently! I'm from, raised, and live in SE USA so I get lots of opportunities to talk about my beliefs with others. The downside is sometimes I feel like I'm being interrogated, When that happens, I freeze and my mind goes blank. It makes me look like I'm ignorant. I wish i had the ability to communicate like he does.
This was my favorite video so far. The constructive/building conversation was just fascinating and uplifting to watch. Both sides were so eloquent and yet very basic in core beliefs. Questions were asked/answered and respectfully heard. Loved everything about this video! ❤
Loved this video. Thank you for sharing. It really opened my eyes and understanding towards your beliefs and I also felt better understood in my own beliefs.
@natedawg2020 That part struck me as well. As a Latter-day Saint, I had to stop and think “why DO I do the things I do?” It stopped me in my tracks. I feel like I’ve always been good about self-reflection and the reasons why I do the things I do. I love doing things for others and often think of the scripture where it talks about serving our fellowman is akin to serving our God. I did come to the conclusion that I do these things because I love Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ and feel a deep sense of gratitude for all they’ve done, and continue to do, for me. A good reminder that after all we can do, we are eventually saved by grace.
It is ridiculous nonsense to argue works vs faith. That is as ridiculous as arguing what is more important, inhaling or exhaling. One does not exist without the other. So there is absolutely no point in saying that it is one or the other that saves us. Evangelists love to argue about this, but they are just going out of their way to discredit the Lord's church any way they think they can. If you think there is reason for LDS to "holy envy" anything protestant, I would suggest you are in the wrong church.
@@nonrepublicrat I don’t think anyone is arguing about faith vs works, per se. 😊 We know works is important. “If ye love me, keep my commandments”. My interpretation of what they were talking about in this video was the “why” behind what we do. We’ve established the fact that we are eventually saved by grace “after all we can do”. But as Latter-day Saints, are we doing these things for merit to earn a place in heaven, or out of love and gratitude to Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ for the gift of being able to return to them through faith in Jesus Christ and daily repentance and the ability to change and develop the same characteristics as them? I feel doing things out of love for someone is far better than doing something out of obligation, although that has a place too. Because the Father asks us to do those things, we oblige because we love him. But when we start doing them purely out of love for them, we no longer feel an obligation. It’s because of the joy, gratitude, and love of serving God.
4:09 the difference in contexts being that in Jeff’s context, he’s referring to people who want to be vocational (paid) ministers, whereas in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints context, that’s referring to everyone (unpaid ministry).
39:42 when speaking about whether General conference talks are “sermons” that teach from the scriptures, I wonder if Pastor Jeff has ever read them after the fact, and studied the footnotes? That’s where the meat of the teaching is in conference talks. Some more than others, but many have several scriptural footnotes that can be studied at length. and even take you on a rabbit trail of study of the doctrines and principles mentioned In the footnotes. The things they are talking about and teaching are concepts and principles linked directly to scripture. Conference talks are directed at the entire world, they are for everybody, and there is a wide range of understanding among the audience. They tend to be often focused on basic principles, but for those who desire deeper study, digging into the footnotes, and creating a study of the principles talked about can take you deep into the scriptures.
Howdy Pastor Jeff, I’m new to Utah and live in Herriman. I’m wondering if you have any welcoming evangelical churches you recommend where I can just walk in and enjoy a sermon? Long story short: I grew up in the bible belt and really miss hearing my friends talking about their love for Jesus.
@@rebeccasorensen7925 Hi there! I personally challenge you to attend you ward meeting one Sunday and count how many times "Jesus" is said out loud, and also keep track of what other words are repeated most often. Then find a local Bible church, slip in the back, and do the same. Compare your lists. I did this last year and the proof was in black and white.
I love how even though you don’t share some of our points of view, you are still so respectful to everything. Thank you for being this way. I wish more people would be more like this instead of being so judgy and mean to others’ beliefs
Just wanted to throw my two cents regarding comments on things being taken out of the Bible- I’ve actually seen this happen (whether intentionally or unintentionally) with different modern translations. For instance, John 3:16, KJV against the CSB. To me, the KJV makes it sound like Christ is the only child of God in the physical sense, while the CSB translation makes it sound like Jesus is the only child of God in physical and spiritual sense. SO, even if we have all the writings perfectly preserved, we have translators that have to understand the IDEAS behind the original words and THEN put it into translated words without losing any of the ideas the original author had. Not very easy. Keeping your own preconceived ideas out during the process, even harder.
If it is hard to understand why temples are necessary, it is only because you haven't experienced what happens in the temple yet. Once you have experienced it, you will understand. Even if you think that there is only a one in a million possibility that the LDS church is true, you do your best to know for sure. Getting sealed to your family is a real thing. Don't miss out on that.
Do you realize how ridiculous your comment is? To get into the temple at all and "experience" it requires someone to be a good and upstanding temple card holder. I think you are blinded by your emotional experiences. I've had amazing times in God's presence everywhere. Even his word says that he doesn't dwell in houses made by hands a nd that we must worship Him in Spirit and truth, because He is both of those.
Great interview! I love how you said we need to lean into rather lean back from differences at times. I would be interested in you doing a video on the differences within the different Christian denominations. As a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, I realize there are many different Christian churches, but I don't know what they have in common and what is different. I am interested to learn what do you wish a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints knew about your Christian denomination and others. I'm really enjoying your channel and appreciate what you are doing to facilitate dialogue rather than distrust. I found this interview enlightening because you had an intellectual and respectful discussion about these differences.
I’m really enjoying your conversation. I think when Pastor Jeff says that even with a very different belief system and different practicing and applying of it, yet we are trying to apprehend the same thing, it makes me think of Isaiah 29:24 “they also that erred in spirit shall come to understanding.” The Lord knows us and the intentions and desires of our heart. He will help us each come to understanding. I believe discussions like this are part of His work. I
I’m so grateful that these dialogues are happening. Thank you to pastor Jeff for being so open, so kind, and so willing to respectfully chat about such important things. With how Jesus Christ, and living a life as a person of faith, are coming on the chopping block to so many people in these modern times, it’s time to put aside our differences and really lift and edify each other in an uplifting way as we join forces to lighten the world with our faith in Jesus Christ. It’s too important for us to lose ourselves in bickering between Christian sects, and more “Christlike” to find common ground in a respectful way. I am so grateful for what you are doing in this ministry. Keep it up. We should all, as Christians, be more willing to walk with others and their differences as Christ would. This is exactly that. Thank you.
Love this conversation! 2:44-2:59 Our version of taking personal ownership of our faith, similar to other traditions who have a young baptism and an older confirmation, is probably when we go to the temple as adults to receive our own endowment.
Very edifying conversation. I love how we can build each other's faith in Jesus by talking about our devotion to Him and our love for Him and what he did. I am a Latter-day Saint and I was definitely edified by this conversation, especially the why of obedience. I think we see eye-to-eye in this more than most realize.
I listened to the whole thing and appreciated both perspectives. It was nice to hear two varying differences come to the table of brotherhood. Enjoyed it.
Mormons seem to me to be the most analytical of all believers. They know their stuff and they're open, they don't seem to just blindly believe anything, even Brigham Young said to not just blindly believe everything he says. Regular Christians always come across as way more defensive and close-minded and willing to just accept "mysteries" like the Trinity.
Yes to this one. As a post-mormon I go to Protestant churches and ask what seem to me like simple questions like why are the Gospels all derived from Mark if they are to be 4 separate witnesses and I get blank stares like no one has ever considered it. You ask this in Mormon Sunday School and half the room has something to say.
This has been the best video for me and I have been watching since the beginning. I learned so much that I have been wondering about Jeff’s beliefs in Salvation and works.
Yes, you are well liked. I believe you are on the Lord's errand. I love your countenance... as a Latter-day Saint I love hearing your respectful and loving interviews. I'm sure you make your mom and grams proud. Hope my grandchildren can learn to love all mankind as you do.
Really enjoyed the dialog I was like many members that believed the BofM took place in mesoamerica if you want evidence, get acquainted with Wayne May I am now thinking the BofM took place in North America Listen to a podcast by brothers that are under the name " stick of Joseph a while back they had a podcast that showed DNA evidence supporting the BofM it was fascinating to listen to changed my mind of how I've thought as a 65 yr old male
Exactly... it is deffinately north america. It is deffinately about the people that existed physically close to the place that Joseph Smith found the plates. The evidence has been found. Alot has been covered up. Just google Rod Meldrum and DNA evidence. For 30 years I thought it was meso america with no evidence found. Then I started finding tons of evidence when I looked into north american indians heritage.
Very interesting conversation that taught me a lot about my own beliefs. Thanks to both of you for your respect and kindness, as well as your conviction on your own beliefs!
You should see if you can talk to Jared Halverson who is a religious teacher and Nathan Crane who is a Mechanical Engineering professor which I think it would be cool to hear a professor that doesn't teach religion and their thoughts on some of your questions.
I would just like to give a word for a suit of thought to the pasture. I kinda look at your stuff on and off and I am a convert. My grandparents and my ancestors several of them were reverence. So I grew up knowing the Bible very well being taught from the Bible, since I was a small that I said on my grandmother‘s lap, and Would ask so many questions. Here’s what’s interesting the things that I was taught by my grandmother later I found out, actually contradicted the church that she went to. I often go back to that church because it was such a foundation of my religious beliefs in Jesus Christ. That little church is called Bethlehem Baptist Church and it’s in Midlothian Virginia it’s a very historical old church and I grew up. They are going to sunny school etc.. My other grandmother, who had the reverence on her side came from a different religious background. And so as I grew up and they came to baptism, I had to choose which grandmother‘s church I wanted to belong to being told that I couldn’t join both. That was very hard to have to choose. I did go ahead and get baptized in the Baptist Church at the time because of my father and my love for him but I also felt that it greatly hurt my other grandmother. So my question is for you if Jesus loved all of his children, and he came to this world why is there so many churches and why why is there so much confusion. I was taught that the master of confusion is Satan. could it be that Satan had a lot a great influence and dividing us one too if Jesus came here, why would he only go see one group of people and none of the other children upon the earth and if he did see the other children would have not taught the same to them as he taught over in Jerusalem. Would he not tell them to record and write down their dealings and teachings from God. for a long time when I would ask questions and pray to father, he always pointed to the scriptures, and he would teach me something that would give me the answers. I keep a journal, and I keep a record of the things father has taught me. I noticed later in my life that normally father was teaching me and referred back to the scriptures, but he began to refer back to my own journal, reminding me what he had taught me before. And I thought that was amazing because our journals are records of our dealings with our father personally, but the teachings I came to find out he was teaching everyone else the same thing he personally taught me. He taught me about the children of light who would help in the second country he taught me about the sounds of heaven, and what this says, he taught me about time he taught me about his language. She taught me so many things, so I think that when we read the Bible as we grow and have that personal revelation, we begin to see the Bible and other scriptures unfold to us. We begin to understand his language better. Matter fact, when I read the words right onto my bosom, walk with God, overcome the world, and come to rest, caught up, these words have a meaning. And father has taught me what they mean. Those that remain alive until they come of his Lord who are they father taught me this. Is this not father personal revelation. and I can read the Bible and I can see that Paul is talking in Thessalonians chapter 4 and saying we that remain alive until they come out of the Lord so it’s not something that’s contradicting the Bible. And also in the Bible it mentions that there would be two books, and they would come and witness for Jesus. I think, and I believe with all my heart that father did go everywhere all over the world and visit all of his children. We even have pictures in Russia where they have paintings that have been stored and these paintings are just now coming for and who are they showing Jesus with the apostles and where they getting these paintings these paintings were done over thousand years ago. And all the cultures that bleed in a great white God to return to them. Not come to them but return which means they were there before. There is proof for the book of Mormon and you can find it and the discoveries are making. And I am Cherokee Indian, there is proof of DNA showing up here that is from the house of Judah that is going back to people that have ancestors here on the continent America not that came over so we do have the DNA proof and maybe that’s something you might want to look at a little bit more it is there. But I would ask father would he not speak to only one nation and that would be it. Did Jesus say himself other sheep I have that are not of this fold I must go into them and they shall hear my voice. he also said that to the inhabitants of the American continent when he was about to leave, he said the same thing to them. I see that a lot of the Lds people don’t know the Bible as well and sometimes when you ask a question they don’t know where to find it in the Bible to give you that answer. And I know where the answer is in the Bible, so I get frustrated when they don’t give you the answer showing you that it is in the Bible.and every doctrine that we believe is in the Bible or mentioned in the Bible. Even baptisms for the dead is in the Bible and there’s so many other things that are in the Bible that we do but no one ever says or brings it up.
No such doctrinal teachings in the Bible for baptism for the dead or two books (the Bible is an accumulation of separate documents bound together), the three heavens Paul teaches have nothing to do with LDS understanding of heaven, if one understands Biblical cultures. I wish you God's spirit to discern truth from fiction.
Well done, Pastor Jeff. I understand where you are coming from. My sense from this inspired conversation is that you might want to ask questions related to ordinances. That seems to be a major point of difference. Yes, painful perhaps, but I think it's worth it.
You guys just gave me a personal aha moment! Whether I’m right or wrong, I now understand why some people are falling away from the church and thinking we are cultish. If we are living according to a checklist, (I go to the temple, I do such and such as you said), then it’s no wonder some people are falling away from the church and just feeling like they can’t do it so they go to another church and feel just. We have huge expectations in our church but it’s not because we need to be perfect but it’s BECAUSE we can’t sit still and float along thinking we have it made! We do have a lot of things taught to us but it’s only to make us better people and we can only do it step by step! Everybody’s abilities are entirely different and their own. Like Jeff said, we will be serving because we do it for our love of Jesus, not because of a checklist!!! I have already personally come to that point just not articulated as such! I go to church because I know it’s true, I know it feeds me, I know I’m fed by others, and it all keeps me spiritually strong. Otherwise, believe me, I could be totally selfish and stay home! Not that you knew you’d give me that moment of ‘perfect understanding’ but I’m sure glad I understood while listening to you! This was an awesome conversation! Thanks so much ❣️
This was great! Thanks to both of you for your willingness to share and even be uncomfortable with the others' views. Thank you for sharing what is true to you. The only thing I'd add is that i agree with Jeff about baptism, but i also encourage all believers to be baptized. So, if someone dies between believing in Jesus and getting baptized they are still part of God 's kingdom, just like the thief on the cross. But those who have opportunity to publicly identify as a new creation in Christ into God's family they definitely should.
Pastor Jeff: I would recommend looking into the heartland model for the Book of Mormon. The Cherokee have a DNA marker called 'haplogroup X' that ties them to the Middle East. There is debate on whether this marker comes from pre/post Columbus, but the average Cherokee has more Jewish DNA than American Jews today.
I very much doubt the "heartland model" is correct. Most of the evidence and arguments that I have seen strongly support Central America ( such as Guatemala) as the location of the Nephite and Lamanite civilizations in the Book of Mormon. But of course, nobody can be certain, in the absence of additional revelation.
@@michaelbennett7561 What sold me on the Heartland model was 1) the Hill Cumorah is in New York; 2) on the Zion's Camp march Joseph Smith talks about the skeleton they found and said it was a righteous Nephite who was killed in a battle there, and 3) when Joseph Smith specifically sent missionaries to the Lamanites, he sent the missionaries WEST, not south.
@@michaelbennett7561 I think both models have their uses, but when DNA is involved there is legit DNA in the heartland. I'm open to either being true. I don't care which it is, but ignoring the evidence of one because the other is more popular is foolish in my opinion.
As LDS I've heard a couple of viewpoints on this and there's been some controversy on the subject. Supporting sources are always helpful to establish the veracity of such claims, where possible.
@@SuttonShimai I very much doubt that the Hill Cumorah, as mentioned in the Book of Mormon, is the same Hill Cumorah that we know in New York. There is plenty of evidence within the text of the Book of Mormon itself to cast doubt on that idea.
I love all the calls for Jared Halverson next and I agree it would be a beautiful/eloquent conversation - but I don’t know what they would talk about that wasn’t covered by this professor. This conversation was AMAZING!!! 🤩
I think that Jared Halverson has an immense wealth of knowledge and he understands the LDS viewpoint, doctrine and theology quite well, better than perhaps anybody. I personally would say better than some of the Quorum of the 12. Or maybe what I mean by that is to say that the way he expresses himself is so easy to understand, the way he takes deep doctrine and makes it accessible to anyone. He also has an extremely good understanding of mainstream Christianity, having worked in interfaith dialogue for decades.
As a Jewish lds, it’s so difficult to navigate my other faith when this is my only Christian perspective on life, while you have an evangelical background, I’d love to talk to you more about my experience
I’m so glad I met Dr. Taeger! What questions did I miss that I should ask next time?
I thought that was a great conversation. Well done 👍
One of my favorite episodes. I would love to see more episodes where you find LDS teachings that you don’t think align with the Bible and give a scholar or informed member a chance to see how we put our teachings in agreement with the Book of Mormon, Bible, and modern teaching. You alluded to it in this video, but many times during your Book of Mormon videos you said I think the Bible said X which isn’t in agreement with what we believe, and never got an LDS perspective how we would reinterpret those passages and bring them into harmony. Grace is one you touched on in the past but there are others.
Every time I watch one of your videos I get closer to my LDS son, through understanding. I too think you did a wonderful job here and there is so much to unpack, please don’t add any more questions lol 😂 God bless you for this wonderful work of understanding you are performing. I am so grateful to have found your channel 🙏
I live outside of Utah. So seminary is totally different. And I'm called to teach it. Before school at 6:00. A.m. I'll tell you what I wish I could take his class. I really enjoyed your discussion. I know it would help me to listen to the professor more often.
I’ve been following this channel since inception. This was hands down my favourite episode yet.
As an evangelical like Jeff with many LDS friends, I find these conversations to be fascinating!!!! Thank you both for bringing your ideas, knowledge, personal experience and intellect into the conversation. Please keep these videos coming! I am gaining such a better understanding of different faith groups and how the LDS faith compares and contrasts to my own protestant/evangelical Christian faith.
I agree, this video is fascinating. This might be the best of all of the hello saints videos. With the professor’s knowledge of evangelical teachings he’s able to speak more clearly on the LDS perspective as it relates to evangelical teachings. And, the clarifications that we’re getting from Pastor Jeff are fantastic for LDS people to hear.
Dr. Taeger is my brother, I’m super proud of him and this type of conversation. I honestly wish it was just this easy all around to truly listen to each other and ask questions that are insightful and not hurtful, in every conversation. We are so quick to judge, get our opinion in and prove that what we believe is correct, I’ve been guilty of this as well.
I’m a convert and have been close to leaving the church a couple of times, one of which was due to doctrine. So, yes, I’ve exercised critical thinking throughout my membership. I think the general public needs to know that most of us are not blind followers. At the end of the day, I want to follow Jesus Christ and His example. And this is the Gospel that has brought be the closest to that endeavor.
This!
So grateful you’re still with us!
👍👍🇺🇸🇺🇸
I converted to the LDS faith 45 years ago and found this to be an interesting dialogue. I'm grateful that both view points could be shared in a respectful way. I have an evangelical older pastor friend who I absolutely love but he feels threatened with anything that has to do with the Book of Mormon so we made an agreement that we would continue to love each other to save our friendship and not bring up religion. I'd like to share this exchange with him but fear he will feel threatened. I enjoy hearing Christian sermons from other sources and have been edified by them but they have not caused me to want to leave the LDS church. As soon as I began to read the Book of Mormon 45 years ago, I knew it was from God and I'm grateful for my membership in the church. Thx again for sharing this exchange it helps to understand each other's fundamental beliefs, in the end we are all children of God and He knows and loves us deeply.
Your comment is a blessing to read. Thanks for sharing.
It is hard for many Christians to come to the realization that God is bigger than 66 scrolls of the Bible. It is hard for many in the LDS denomination to come to the realization that God is bigger than their denomination. When growing up RLDS, I heard the "we are the one true church" often...although not as often I think as it is repeated in the LDS. One thing that I have gained from leaving that denomination (after they became CoC and way leftist and somewhat abandoned roots) was a realization that God was bigger than the box I had put Him in. He was present in the first congregation (Evangelical) that I started attending. He was also present in the next congregation (Evangelical) I went to also. They absolutely missed on the clarity of the scriptures of the Book of Mormon and they are far from perfect, but God still moves there regularly. One day (I believe soon) I know that God will bring His church together and I believe He is starting to bring down some man-made denominational walls even now. He is a big big God. He is a good good God. Looking forward to Zion!
God is doing miraculous and marvelous things around the world, Jews and Muslims are having dreams of Christ, He is calling and gathering all of His children to Him (those that will hear Him). I like God's word in 2 Nephi 29: 7 from the Book of Mormon, "Know ye not that there are more nations than one? Know ye not that I, the Lord your God, have created all men, and that I remember those who are upon the isles of the sea; and that I rule in the heavens above and in the earth beneath; and I bring forth my word unto the children of men, yea, even upon all the nations of the earth? vs. 8 Know ye not that the testimony of two nations is a witness unto you that I am God, that I remember one nation like unto another? Wherefore, I speak the same words unto one nation like unto another. And when the two nations shall run together the testimony of the two nations shall run together also? vs. 11 For I command all men, both in the east and in the west, and in the north, and in the south, and in the islands of the sea, that they shall write the words which I speak unto them; for out of the books which shall be written I will judge the world, every man according to their works, according to that which is written (works=their desire to follow Christ and emulate Him).
@@Chrysalis52 ...are there any manuscripts of the Book of Mormon prophets?
@@joesimpson9230 It's hard for this Bible Christian to consider after the beauty of the various writers of the Bible that the BoM could be considered anything but a good and fantastical story written very poorly "and it came to pass" again and again. Love my LDS neighbors and friends and I'm reading to understand them better, but my mind, soul, spirit and strength (and the Bible itselfin so many places and ways) are telling me that our praying hearts are not adequate, in and of themselves, to discern truth from fiction.
One thing that I loved about this conversation is that once we get beyond the typical talking points that we hurl at each other there is a lot of nuance and really profound thought in both traditions.
So much Evangelical - LDS content I watch is Evangelicals asking unprepared LDS folks hard questions to trap them. THANK YOU for bringing on smart and prepared people like Dr Taeger to give an informed and thoughtful response to the hard questions.
This conversation was pure GOLD!!! Please don’t stop.
I am LDS and went to a men's event at another church. There were several things that I found holy envy of and wish we opened up to discussion like this. Watching Hello Saints has helped me know how to fight criticism with curiosity. I would not have been open going to another churches event without this channel.
Pastor Jeff. I’m impressed with how much you have improved in your interactions with others and knowledge and understanding of my faith! For a while I thought your intentions were not sincere in what you were doing with The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saint’s but as time went on I began to go from unbelief to doubt to seeing you truly want to understand the Church, it’s religion and the members of my faith while adhering to your own faith. Well done! 👍
Thank you so much for these types of conversations. I feel watching this was a very productive use of my Sunday afternoon.
I liked seeing your react videos to the Book of Mormon while reading it alone, but it was more interesting to see you read third Nephi with Greg. I think you should do more videos where you challenge our scriptural interpretations or other doctrine with a knowledgeable church member in the room. It’s more interesting to see you react to a fuller understanding of the church rather than a partial understanding.
It would nice if the church put out study guides and authoritative commentary to accompany and contextualize their scripture, specifically the BOM / Pearl (I know it would be quite voluminous for D&C).
@@GabeClendenning I think some of the old institute study manuals are pretty good but could afford to be updated. The Doctrine and Covenants Instructor’s Guide Religion 324-325 from 1981 is pretty good and available in the Gospel Library app.
Come Follow Me is good for “reading with a prayer in your heart,” but I agree it would also be valuable to have a more intellectual doctrinal guide for side-by-side study.
Yeah, grab old institute manuals or gospel doctrine class teachers manuals. Deseret industries has them, if you are near one of those.
@@GabeClendenning My LDS neighbor gave me the BoM AND the student study guide. They're out there! Can;t say it makes it all make any more sense. If the foundation is bad the house will always lean.
Thank you for this conversation. I appreciate this moment today to turn my thoughts to our Savior and feel of His love for His children. What a beautiful addition to my day.
Thank you Pastor Jeff for this wonderful inter-faith discussion. I have been a practicing Latter Day Saint my whole life, and It warms my heart to see you conduct these interviews with the utmost curiosity and kindness. I have watched many of your podcasts and have always been impressed with your knowledge on the bible, but also with the way in which you treat our members. It literally brings me to tears to see someone of another faith, diligently try to understand and study our faith objectively. Sure we may have differences about what we believe, but I have always felt that God has more Grace then we can possibly understand in this mortal life. In the end, I truly don't think he will care if we drive up to the pearly gates in a bright red Ferrari, or a crappy beat up pinto hatch back with a bumper falling off. He doesn't care as much about the vehicle that we came in, as much as He cares that our car was always headed towards the gate. Much love to you my fiend. You're doing great work.
I love your analogy “He doesn’t care what vehicle we came in, as much as He cares that our car was always headed towards the gate”. I agree. I believe God, at the end of the day, that’s what He cares about.
I’m no longer Mormon, but I attended graduate school there and I was never discouraged from critical thinking and had academic freedom. I pushed the envelope a lot in my LDS history class and professor never called me into question.
May I ask the reason you become an ex Mormon? Sorry for asking.
@@kobidoggy7575 I simply don’t believe in any sort of supernatural. The evidence on which such claims are based is insufficient to convince me. I do however regret having resigned my membership, I wish I could undo that.
@@kobidoggy7575 I’m not sure why sometimes my responses disappear but I responded the day you asked. Basically I came to the point that the evidence for all supernatural claims is insufficient and not convincing. I do however regret resigning my church membership and wish I could undo it without rebaptism, I can’t bring myself to lie to the point I’d have to in a baptism interview.
@@dinosaurparkandsuch6936 So why do you still want to be a member then?
@@janet-Spirit_of_the_Living_God yes
You need to get with Jared Halverson. That would be extremely thought provoking
I agree! Would like to see Jeff & Jared have a sit down conversation. Look forward to that on TH-cam soon. 👍🏻😉
YES!!!!!❤
Yes that would be amazing. Please do it Jeff!
We need to message Jared and get him to do it!
I think about this every week. It was the first thing I thought when I saw this video and yet, this professor did an amazing job!
I love Professor Taegan. One of my favorite classes at BYU
Great effort Jeff, to go above and beyond to talk with someone who doesn't share your beliefs. A model for civil discord and dialogue.
Thanks, Jeff. I am here in Utah with you. I pastor up in Ogden. Thank you for your heart posture towards these incredible people
Two extraordinarily smart, well educated, Christ centered men.
I love learning both sides of this coin.
True. One centered in the John 1 Christ, and another grounded in the christ Joseph smith invented who was created like satan was created.
@@AB-xq1kn Interesting. You do you. 👍
We also read and believe John 1.
Finally. So much better to see you converse with an expert, sharing true knowledge not just personal stories that don't represent the actual teachings of the church
My holy envy is how brave the evangelicals are in talking to strangers! When on the stair master at the gym, a gal started up a conversation with me. I was really hoping she was LDS and was going to share with me. I instantly knew she was evangelical when she unabashedly started using religious words. I wish she would have taken Jeff’s stance about learning to appreciate each other which is, thankfully, the position that I took so that we could hopefully continue as friends in Christ. Another day I saw her do the same thing to another woman and invited her to her church. That was SO awesome that she is out there “turning stones” like the rest of us should be. How we could all change the world if we were willing to witness of Christ without fear or just plain disinterest.
This has been one of my more favorite conversations that I have seen from you Pastor Jeff. Reason being that is got into foundational conversation about why our faiths are different but at the same time being able to respect the ground that each of us stand on. It makes the conversation so much more interesting rather than just having the mic drop moment. Thank you and keep up the great work and conversations!
Dr. Taeger you did a fantastic job on this podcast. Thank you for representing our spiritual and religious beliefs so well with Jeff McCullough . I do want to ask Jeff what do you hold as "Holy Envy" for our church and people?
Beautiful. Jared Halverson next?
The discussion around the 45 minute mark about holy envy and following Christ is wonderful. I’d highly recommend Dr. Anthony Sweat’s Easter 2018 talk on the subject of covenants and how the covenants we make are like a marriage. It is essentially what Pastor Jeff is teaching. This is what we believe. The concept of obedience and earning our way to heaven is not a church doctrine. We are obedient because we are trying to develop/build a relationship with our Savior and become more like him. Keeping our covenants is equivalent to developing a relationship. I think some of us in the church still struggle with this concept.
...I agree that developing a relationship with God is important. You stated, "The concept of obedience and earning our way to heaven is not a church doctrine." That's really great to hear!
I think when your prophet quotes from the D&C 82:10 "I, the Lord, am bound when ye do what I say; but when ye do not what I say, ye have no promise." it really comes across like obedience to gain salvation. Is God really bound?
I have no doubt that you don't feel you are earning your salvation, but I think we should be honest that LDS believe there are things you must do to receive exaltation.
@@BGCflyer Thanks for the note. That scripture is, again, referring to the concept of covenant relationships. In my reading, what the Lord is saying is that a covenant relationship is governed by the laws that God has put in place establishing the covenant. In a covenant with God, when we remain loyal to Him in the covenant, as a perfect being, God is stating in D&C 82 that we can have full faith and confidence in His fulfillment of the covenant. He is “bound”, because He is perfectly just and perfectly fulfills His covenant with us. If this were not true, we could not develop faith in Him.
I think the analogy of marriage is helpful in that being loyal in the marriage covenant requires something of us every day, or at least to be mindful of it every day, beyond just the words we speak on our wedding day. Being faithful to our marriage vows takes daily effort, and the fruits of that effort are an increase of love for our partner, and an increase of gratitude for the blessing they are in our lives, to a point where we couldn’t ever imagine life without them.
Moreover, as Dr. Sweat teaches, in a marriage, our partner’s attributes become our attributes. When we covenant with God to be faithful to Him and become followers of Christ, Christ’s merits become our merits through the covenant (marriage) relationship. His grace becomes our grace and we are made perfect through His merits, mercy and grace.
As Dr. Sweat also teaches: we need to get rid of our “perfection” complex, and develop a “loyalty” complex. The amazing part is, as we become more loyal to Christ, we become more like Him. We begin to emulate the thing we love.
Understanding that God has a law that He has established, and that He is perfectly bound by His own laws is a framework for understanding what a perfect being is, and is also required for faith to exist. But it should not transform us into obedient robots. The relationship, as pastor Jeff correctly points out, is the important part. But in my view, we develop faith in our relationship, and love for our partner as we do what he asks us to do. They build on each other in a perfectly virtuous cycle.
I’ve never heard the term “holy envy” before but I love it. As a Catholic, I see many things I admire about Protestant churches that I wish we would do.
I attend two different Bible churches because they have different emphasis on preaching and worship. It seems to satisfy my dual longings as I experience God.
I loved everything about this conversation!
This was a very interesting podcast. I really appreciate that how well-informed both of you are about each other's religions and how respectful and gentle you are as you sincerely seek understanding. I think this kind of discussion benefits people of all faiths.
Thank you for your always respective discussions!
I appreciate what Dr. Stephan Taege has to say and he did a great job, but the entire time I kept thinking, what would this conversation have been like if it were Elder Bednar? I know it will never happen, but Elder Bednar in these types of one-on-one interviews is so commanding with his statements.
I just listened to the podcast version of this and I loved it! Such a great conversation.
Jeff - Sincere question for you. Do you acknowledge that you are interpreting Bible? What I mean is whenever you state your beliefs, and how they differ from mainstream Christianity (baptism, enduring, etc.) that you are interpreting the Bible the way you see it. I personally love many of your interpretations, others I disagree with, but independent of who agrees or does not agree with you, you as a Pastor are interpreting the Bible the way you see it. The reason I ask is because I've listened to so many other Protestant pastors preach, even debate on stage a wide range of theology and there is always a lack of consensus. The explanation is often that we "agree on the important things," yet that in itself is an interpretation of what is and is not vital to our salvation (see baptism, Priesthood authority, sacrament, tithing, sabbath day observance, morality, chastity, etc.). I guess what I'm asking you to answer is, do you view your beliefs as a personal interpretation of the Bible? Because if not, and you believe your beliefs are an exact understanding of the text.....which Protestant pastors are right...and which ones are wrong about these subjects? Sincerely interested in your view on this. Great conversation! One of my favorite videos!
As an evangelical I would say that first of all, all the things you listed above are not salvific in most of Protestantism. Some denominations may have formed over such issues, so that explains their bent, such as baptism by immersion only. The Bible has many principles that are very clear and others that are more grey areas of behavior, such as baptism of children vs. believers-only baptism.
We are not "creedal" as I've heard LDS call us, but we follow the teachings of the 1st century church and OT (which were formalized in the face of heresies in the subsequent centuries) as to the three persons of one God: Father, Son/Human-incarnation and Spirit/indwelling (tho the latter various denominations would have different views on how the HS transforms us and if His gifts are still bestowed today or not. We agree that we are saved by faith alone in Christ alone. His atonement completely replaces the OT temple animal and grain sacrifices for various sins that must be paid for in order to enjoy fellowship with God. His righteousness is accounted to us as righteousness when we apply His faith and blood to us. Jesus=Emmanuel=God with us= Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world.
For some denominations the saving relationship is more personal than for others, making how we live and why we do certain things, or not do them, different for each. And we all rely on the Bible alone as passed down thru history and preserved thru various cultural twists and turns, that in His church that He established shall remain and the gates of hell will never come against. Reformations, yes, but no restoration of something totally lost because God all thru history has always had a remnant people. That believers exist today is the proof that no restoration was needed. We still have the Bible, the old manuscripts, the faith in Jesus alone handed down from one generation to the next. We have the early church fathers following what they were taught by the original apostles, and the preservations of the words and experiences that were written by them. We have direct lineage that our minds can study and point back to. Hope that helps.
So as a Latter-Day Saint I feel like I’ve accepted Jesus Christ in my heart. I strive to follow him, with plenty of errors of course, but I strive to follow His example as He has asked us to do. I love Him, and accept Him as my Savior. He is my greatest example and I’ve felt His love so many times in my life.
Do you believe I will be saved? Or do I need to become a Protestant?
@@GStar-qd5oiI believe it's possible for ANYONE to be saved and go to God (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit) in heaven after earthly death. As long as they believe in the Christ alone for their full salvation and what LDS call "exaltation" then yes. The veil on the temple was torn supernaturally when Jesus died, he was the final Priest. What he did on the cross was fully sufficient and our good deeds are seen as filthy RAGS to God. We are only able to get to heaven, to God bc we are clothed in Jesus's righteousness. Thats what it means that we are heirs along with him now. It's nothing we can do. I am concerned for my LDS friends who truly seem to love God and love a Savior but are told lies by the church that can interfere with their true salvation in Christ bc I do believe the Bible tells us who God is. It came first. The evidence of the Bible is what makes us know it's true. And then from there we can use it to know what we feel is true. It is very problematic to pray for a feeling so the spirit to know if a scripture is true. Even evil spirits can give you feelings in your body. Placebo effects or confirmation bias also can have you feel peace or that something is true. Evidence comes first, then it's reliable and I can now look back to that scripture to see if a feeling I have lines up with God's word and Spirit.
You say LDS people like me can go to Heaven.
I’ve had other Protestant people, even many pastors during my mission tell me I can’t go to Heaven.
You all read from the authority of The Bible.
Who is right?
This is about my Salvation. I need to know who is going to be right on this one. Who has the authority to interpret the Bible correctly?
Do you? Or them?
@@GStar-qd5oi It's hard to convey on here bc it's an in-depth conversation. I believe God's word is the authority and I only see what we have in the Bible as holding up to the evidence needed to believe it's God's word. Therefore, who is saved is based on what I see in the Bible. I personally believe if an LDS member is saved it is in spite of their churches teachings. If you believe 100% in Jesus and the way to God the Father in the way LDS church says, I would be be concerned for your eternity. But I do believe it's nuanced. I believe ppl can be in a certain church, maybe not even fully take on all of that practice and actually have a proper view of Jesus and how they are to be saved. It's possible. I would hope they find a church that better aligns with scripture but anyway... It's nuanced in that sense.
It is interesting that you talked about the temple and then discussed in your perspective how the gospel is about being redeemed into God's presence. This is the symbolism and importance of the ordinances of the temple. In our temple worship we are reminded that we are being called to enter into his presence and return after the Fall
great conversation, both coming from a place of love. Really enjoyed listening to both of you.
I wish this never ended. Beautiful loving conversation seeking truth and understanding ultimately to see God more clearly. Thank you. God bless you.
probably my favorite video so far jeff. thank you for a wonderful video.
Good conversation. Makes me want to take a class from this professor.
I had Dr Taeger as my New Testament professor last semester at BYU and love his insights! His ability to answer hard questions with a clear and thoughtful mindset is evidence of his strong education and research.
This conversation was fulfilling to watch to the end and I appreciate Jeff’s willingness to have dialog with someone who really understands not just our religion but also how it compares to other branches of Christianity
"Above all else love one another", I appreciate this discussion's example that shows us all how to treat and even appreciate another person's differences. You helped me understand a little better, the majority of the world is on the same team, to further bless and move forward the children of God. Most religions are filled with good people trying to do what's right and good. Let's look for what is right and good in each other and listen for understanding. Thank you for teaching that so beautifully here!
God did not spare His flesh to save us from the evils of ourselves, but the world focuses on self, good and bad, right and wrong. Where's the humility and gratefulness in that?
Great Discussion. Jeff would also like to see a sit down discussion with Jared Halverson and yourself. I watch his TH-cam channel UNSHAKEN. That would be a great conversation. Hope to see it one day. 😉👍🏻
YES!!!!😊
Seminary in Idaho too!! For years!! Back in the early 70’s. I took all four years it was offered, and I graduated from Seminary!!
I really appreciate these respectful conversations. Thank you.
Dr Taeger spoke eloquently! I'm from, raised, and live in SE USA so I get lots of opportunities to talk about my beliefs with others. The downside is sometimes I feel like I'm being interrogated, When that happens, I freeze and my mind goes blank. It makes me look like I'm ignorant. I wish i had the ability to communicate like he does.
Great conversation! I loved that both of you could speak both as believers and academics in your faiths. Really great episode!
Man I loved this conversation. Thanks so much Jeff.
What a beautiful conversation. Thank you.
I always love your videos. This one definitely was a lesson in religious vocabulary.
This was my favorite video so far. The constructive/building conversation was just fascinating and uplifting to watch. Both sides were so eloquent and yet very basic in core beliefs. Questions were asked/answered and respectfully heard. Loved everything about this video! ❤
Loved this video. Thank you for sharing. It really opened my eyes and understanding towards your beliefs and I also felt better understood in my own beliefs.
Amazing and Edifying….. Many thanks to both of you…. Truly two men of God….. A Conversation at the well..
Needs to be a regular segment. The CES has a regular schedule for topics. Would love to watch the two of you to discuss the topic on a regular basis
More of this...please! The best one yet! Keep talking you two!
I enjoyed the part about “holy envy.” I also appreciate an evangelical perspective on faith vs works vs grace. Good interview, Jeff.
The one thing that I wish was different is that now I'm curious where Jeff would say that he has holy envy for the Latter-Day Saints.
@natedawg2020 That part struck me as well. As a Latter-day Saint, I had to stop and think “why DO I do the things I do?” It stopped me in my tracks. I feel like I’ve always been good about self-reflection and the reasons why I do the things I do. I love doing things for others and often think of the scripture where it talks about serving our fellowman is akin to serving our God. I did come to the conclusion that I do these things because I love Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ and feel a deep sense of gratitude for all they’ve done, and continue to do, for me. A good reminder that after all we can do, we are eventually saved by grace.
It is ridiculous nonsense to argue works vs faith. That is as ridiculous as arguing what is more important, inhaling or exhaling. One does not exist without the other. So there is absolutely no point in saying that it is one or the other that saves us. Evangelists love to argue about this, but they are just going out of their way to discredit the Lord's church any way they think they can. If you think there is reason for LDS to "holy envy" anything protestant, I would suggest you are in the wrong church.
@@nonrepublicrat Talk nicer. I was being polite.
@@nonrepublicrat I don’t think anyone is arguing about faith vs works, per se. 😊 We know works is important. “If ye love me, keep my commandments”. My interpretation of what they were talking about in this video was the “why” behind what we do. We’ve established the fact that we are eventually saved by grace “after all we can do”. But as Latter-day Saints, are we doing these things for merit to earn a place in heaven, or out of love and gratitude to Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ for the gift of being able to return to them through faith in Jesus Christ and daily repentance and the ability to change and develop the same characteristics as them? I feel doing things out of love for someone is far better than doing something out of obligation, although that has a place too. Because the Father asks us to do those things, we oblige because we love him. But when we start doing them purely out of love for them, we no longer feel an obligation. It’s because of the joy, gratitude, and love of serving God.
4:09 the difference in contexts being that in Jeff’s context, he’s referring to people who want to be vocational (paid) ministers, whereas in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints context, that’s referring to everyone (unpaid ministry).
Excellent conversation gentlemen
Last half of the discussion was really great. Paster Jeff is a good dude, and Stephan is a great emissary of the church.
Solid convo. Very enlightening
39:42 when speaking about whether General conference talks are “sermons” that teach from the scriptures, I wonder if Pastor Jeff has ever read them after the fact, and studied the footnotes? That’s where the meat of the teaching is in conference talks. Some more than others, but many have several scriptural footnotes that can be studied at length. and even take you on a rabbit trail of study of the doctrines and principles mentioned In the footnotes. The things they are talking about and teaching are concepts and principles linked directly to scripture. Conference talks are directed at the entire world, they are for everybody, and there is a wide range of understanding among the audience. They tend to be often focused on basic principles, but for those who desire deeper study, digging into the footnotes, and creating a study of the principles talked about can take you deep into the scriptures.
I've found the footnotes often use the scripture references out of context.
Howdy Pastor Jeff, I’m new to Utah and live in Herriman. I’m wondering if you have any welcoming evangelical churches you recommend where I can just walk in and enjoy a sermon?
Long story short: I grew up in the bible belt and really miss hearing my friends talking about their love for Jesus.
I attend my ward every Sunday. I’m asking about welcoming opportunities to sit and enjoy worship with my evangelical brothers and sisters.
Christ Presbyterian is in Magna. Crossroads Church is in Sandy
@@rebeccasorensen7925 Hi there! I personally challenge you to attend you ward meeting one Sunday and count how many times "Jesus" is said out loud, and also keep track of what other words are repeated most often. Then find a local Bible church, slip in the back, and do the same. Compare your lists. I did this last year and the proof was in black and white.
I love how even though you don’t share some of our points of view, you are still so respectful to everything. Thank you for being this way. I wish more people would be more like this instead of being so judgy and mean to others’ beliefs
Just wanted to throw my two cents regarding comments on things being taken out of the Bible- I’ve actually seen this happen (whether intentionally or unintentionally) with different modern translations. For instance, John 3:16, KJV against the CSB. To me, the KJV makes it sound like Christ is the only child of God in the physical sense, while the CSB translation makes it sound like Jesus is the only child of God in physical and spiritual sense. SO, even if we have all the writings perfectly preserved, we have translators that have to understand the IDEAS behind the original words and THEN put it into translated words without losing any of the ideas the original author had. Not very easy. Keeping your own preconceived ideas out during the process, even harder.
If it is hard to understand why temples are necessary, it is only because you haven't experienced what happens in the temple yet. Once you have experienced it, you will understand. Even if you think that there is only a one in a million possibility that the LDS church is true, you do your best to know for sure. Getting sealed to your family is a real thing. Don't miss out on that.
Do you realize how ridiculous your comment is? To get into the temple at all and "experience" it requires someone to be a good and upstanding temple card holder. I think you are blinded by your emotional experiences. I've had amazing times in God's presence everywhere. Even his word says that he doesn't dwell in houses made by hands a nd that we must worship Him in Spirit and truth, because He is both of those.
This might be my favorite video of your videos. Plus the terms and vocabulary give me a little homework.
Very well said on both sides.
Great interview! I love how you said we need to lean into rather lean back from differences at times. I would be interested in you doing a video on the differences within the different Christian denominations. As a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, I realize there are many different Christian churches, but I don't know what they have in common and what is different. I am interested to learn what do you wish a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints knew about your Christian denomination and others. I'm really enjoying your channel and appreciate what you are doing to facilitate dialogue rather than distrust. I found this interview enlightening because you had an intellectual and respectful discussion about these differences.
I’m really enjoying your conversation. I think when Pastor Jeff says that even with a very different belief system and different practicing and applying of it, yet we are trying to apprehend the same thing, it makes me think of Isaiah 29:24 “they also that erred in spirit shall come to understanding.” The Lord knows us and the intentions and desires of our heart. He will help us each come to understanding. I believe discussions like this are part of His work.
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Well done, both of you! I thoroughly enjoyed this episode 🙏🏼
This was such a wonderful conversation. The mutual respect between both of you is so refreshing and such a great thing for the Christian community.
Thank you for doing this!❤
Great conversation. Thanks for sharing this.
Brother Taeger was my seminary teacher! Didnt recognize him on the thumbnail, but immediately recognized him when he spoke
This is a great podcast. Thank you for sharing this
Thank you both for this clarifying and inspiring discussion.
I love this conversation! ❤
I’m so grateful that these dialogues are happening. Thank you to pastor Jeff for being so open, so kind, and so willing to respectfully chat about such important things.
With how Jesus Christ, and living a life as a person of faith, are coming on the chopping block to so many people in these modern times, it’s time to put aside our differences and really lift and edify each other in an uplifting way as we join forces to lighten the world with our faith in Jesus Christ. It’s too important for us to lose ourselves in bickering between Christian sects, and more “Christlike” to find common ground in a respectful way.
I am so grateful for what you are doing in this ministry. Keep it up.
We should all, as Christians, be more willing to walk with others and their differences as Christ would. This is exactly that. Thank you.
Great discussion guys. I appreciate being allowed to listen in 😊
Love this conversation!
2:44-2:59 Our version of taking personal ownership of our faith, similar to other traditions who have a young baptism and an older confirmation, is probably when we go to the temple as adults to receive our own endowment.
Very edifying conversation. I love how we can build each other's faith in Jesus by talking about our devotion to Him and our love for Him and what he did. I am a Latter-day Saint and I was definitely edified by this conversation, especially the why of obedience. I think we see eye-to-eye in this more than most realize.
I listened to the whole thing and appreciated both perspectives. It was nice to hear two varying differences come to the table of brotherhood. Enjoyed it.
Mormons seem to me to be the most analytical of all believers. They know their stuff and they're open, they don't seem to just blindly believe anything, even Brigham Young said to not just blindly believe everything he says. Regular Christians always come across as way more defensive and close-minded and willing to just accept "mysteries" like the Trinity.
Yes to this one. As a post-mormon I go to Protestant churches and ask what seem to me like simple questions like why are the Gospels all derived from Mark if they are to be 4 separate witnesses and I get blank stares like no one has ever considered it. You ask this in Mormon Sunday School and half the room has something to say.
This has been the best video for me and I have been watching since the beginning. I learned so much that I have been wondering about Jeff’s beliefs in Salvation and works.
Yes, you are well liked. I believe you are on the Lord's errand. I love your countenance... as a Latter-day Saint I love hearing your respectful and loving interviews. I'm sure you make your mom and grams proud. Hope my grandchildren can learn to love all mankind as you do.
Really enjoyed the dialog I was like many members that believed the BofM took place in mesoamerica if you want evidence, get acquainted with Wayne May I am now thinking the BofM took place in North America
Listen to a podcast by brothers that are under the name " stick of Joseph a while back they had a podcast that showed DNA evidence supporting the BofM it was fascinating to listen to changed my mind of how I've thought as a 65 yr old male
Exactly... it is deffinately north america. It is deffinately about the people that existed physically close to the place that Joseph Smith found the plates. The evidence has been found. Alot has been covered up. Just google Rod Meldrum and DNA evidence.
For 30 years I thought it was meso america with no evidence found. Then I started finding tons of evidence when I looked into north american indians heritage.
Enjoyed this video on e again. Thanks Jeff!
Very interesting conversation that taught me a lot about my own beliefs. Thanks to both of you for your respect and kindness, as well as your conviction on your own beliefs!
You should see if you can talk to Jared Halverson who is a religious teacher and Nathan Crane who is a Mechanical Engineering professor which I think it would be cool to hear a professor that doesn't teach religion and their thoughts on some of your questions.
YES!!!! Jared!!!!
I would just like to give a word for a suit of thought to the pasture. I kinda look at your stuff on and off and I am a convert. My grandparents and my ancestors several of them were reverence. So I grew up knowing the Bible very well being taught from the Bible, since I was a small that I said on my grandmother‘s lap, and Would ask so many questions. Here’s what’s interesting the things that I was taught by my grandmother later I found out, actually contradicted the church that she went to. I often go back to that church because it was such a foundation of my religious beliefs in Jesus Christ. That little church is called Bethlehem Baptist Church and it’s in Midlothian Virginia it’s a very historical old church and I grew up. They are going to sunny school etc.. My other grandmother, who had the reverence on her side came from a different religious background. And so as I grew up and they came to baptism, I had to choose which grandmother‘s church I wanted to belong to being told that I couldn’t join both. That was very hard to have to choose. I did go ahead and get baptized in the Baptist Church at the time because of my father and my love for him but I also felt that it greatly hurt my other grandmother. So my question is for you if Jesus loved all of his children, and he came to this world why is there so many churches and why why is there so much confusion. I was taught that the master of confusion is Satan. could it be that Satan had a lot a great influence and dividing us one too if Jesus came here, why would he only go see one group of people and none of the other children upon the earth and if he did see the other children would have not taught the same to them as he taught over in Jerusalem. Would he not tell them to record and write down their dealings and teachings from God. for a long time when I would ask questions and pray to father, he always pointed to the scriptures, and he would teach me something that would give me the answers. I keep a journal, and I keep a record of the things father has taught me. I noticed later in my life that normally father was teaching me and referred back to the scriptures, but he began to refer back to my own journal, reminding me what he had taught me before. And I thought that was amazing because our journals are records of our dealings with our father personally, but the teachings I came to find out he was teaching everyone else the same thing he personally taught me. He taught me about the children of light who would help in the second country he taught me about the sounds of heaven, and what this says, he taught me about time he taught me about his language. She taught me so many things, so I think that when we read the Bible as we grow and have that personal revelation, we begin to see the Bible and other scriptures unfold to us. We begin to understand his language better. Matter fact, when I read the words right onto my bosom, walk with God, overcome the world, and come to rest, caught up, these words have a meaning. And father has taught me what they mean. Those that remain alive until they come of his Lord who are they father taught me this. Is this not father personal revelation. and I can read the Bible and I can see that Paul is talking in Thessalonians chapter 4 and saying we that remain alive until they come out of the Lord so it’s not something that’s contradicting the Bible. And also in the Bible it mentions that there would be two books, and they would come and witness for Jesus. I think, and I believe with all my heart that father did go everywhere all over the world and visit all of his children. We even have pictures in Russia where they have paintings that have been stored and these paintings are just now coming for and who are they showing Jesus with the apostles and where they getting these paintings these paintings were done over thousand years ago. And all the cultures that bleed in a great white God to return to them. Not come to them but return which means they were there before. There is proof for the book of Mormon and you can find it and the discoveries are making. And I am Cherokee Indian, there is proof of DNA showing up here that is from the house of Judah that is going back to people that have ancestors here on the continent America not that came over so we do have the DNA proof and maybe that’s something you might want to look at a little bit more it is there. But I would ask father would he not speak to only one nation and that would be it. Did Jesus say himself other sheep I have that are not of this fold I must go into them and they shall hear my voice. he also said that to the inhabitants of the American continent when he was about to leave, he said the same thing to them. I see that a lot of the Lds people don’t know the Bible as well and sometimes when you ask a question they don’t know where to find it in the Bible to give you that answer. And I know where the answer is in the Bible, so I get frustrated when they don’t give you the answer showing you that it is in the Bible.and every doctrine that we believe is in the Bible or mentioned in the Bible. Even baptisms for the dead is in the Bible and there’s so many other things that are in the Bible that we do but no one ever says or brings it up.
No such doctrinal teachings in the Bible for baptism for the dead or two books (the Bible is an accumulation of separate documents bound together), the three heavens Paul teaches have nothing to do with LDS understanding of heaven, if one understands Biblical cultures. I wish you God's spirit to discern truth from fiction.
Well done, Pastor Jeff. I understand where you are coming from. My sense from this inspired conversation is that you might want to ask questions related to ordinances. That seems to be a major point of difference. Yes, painful perhaps, but I think it's worth it.
Great conversation my brothers in Jesus Christ!
Great lighting, simple stylish set up. Nice job on the studio set up!
BROTHER TAEGER!!!!!
I would love for you to get Jason Olsen on. He is a Jewish Latter-day Saint Christian.
You guys just gave me a personal aha moment! Whether I’m right or wrong, I now understand why some people are falling away from the church and thinking we are cultish. If we are living according to a checklist, (I go to the temple, I do such and such as you said), then it’s no wonder some people are falling away from the church and just feeling like they can’t do it so they go to another church and feel just. We have huge expectations in our church but it’s not because we need to be perfect but it’s BECAUSE we can’t sit still and float along thinking we have it made! We do have a lot of things taught to us but it’s only to make us better people and we can only do it step by step! Everybody’s abilities are entirely different and their own. Like Jeff said, we will be serving because we do it for our love of Jesus, not because of a checklist!!! I have already personally come to that point just not articulated as such! I go to church because I know it’s true, I know it feeds me, I know I’m fed by others, and it all keeps me spiritually strong. Otherwise, believe me, I could be totally selfish and stay home!
Not that you knew you’d give me that moment of ‘perfect understanding’ but I’m sure glad I understood while listening to you!
This was an awesome conversation! Thanks so much ❣️
Like your prophets have said, we are lazy and not worthy.
@@JIKOKALOL not true. And that’s not what I said
On the contrary, I have complete admiration for people who are driven to attend their church!
Wow! Best video so far! Love the dialogue!
This was great! Thanks to both of you for your willingness to share and even be uncomfortable with the others' views. Thank you for sharing what is true to you. The only thing I'd add is that i agree with Jeff about baptism, but i also encourage all believers to be baptized. So, if someone dies between believing in Jesus and getting baptized they are still part of God 's kingdom, just like the thief on the cross. But those who have opportunity to publicly identify as a new creation in Christ into God's family they definitely should.
Pastor Jeff: I would recommend looking into the heartland model for the Book of Mormon.
The Cherokee have a DNA marker called 'haplogroup X' that ties them to the Middle East. There is debate on whether this marker comes from pre/post Columbus, but the average Cherokee has more Jewish DNA than American Jews today.
I very much doubt the "heartland model" is correct. Most of the evidence and arguments that I have seen strongly support Central America ( such as Guatemala) as the location of the Nephite and Lamanite civilizations in the Book of Mormon. But of course, nobody can be certain, in the absence of additional revelation.
@@michaelbennett7561 What sold me on the Heartland model was 1) the Hill Cumorah is in New York; 2) on the Zion's Camp march Joseph Smith talks about the skeleton they found and said it was a righteous Nephite who was killed in a battle there, and 3) when Joseph Smith specifically sent missionaries to the Lamanites, he sent the missionaries WEST, not south.
@@michaelbennett7561 I think both models have their uses, but when DNA is involved there is legit DNA in the heartland.
I'm open to either being true. I don't care which it is, but ignoring the evidence of one because the other is more popular is foolish in my opinion.
As LDS I've heard a couple of viewpoints on this and there's been some controversy on the subject. Supporting sources are always helpful to establish the veracity of such claims, where possible.
@@SuttonShimai I very much doubt that the Hill Cumorah, as mentioned in the Book of Mormon, is the same Hill Cumorah that we know in New York. There is plenty of evidence within the text of the Book of Mormon itself to cast doubt on that idea.
I love all the calls for Jared Halverson next and I agree it would be a beautiful/eloquent conversation - but I don’t know what they would talk about that wasn’t covered by this professor. This conversation was AMAZING!!! 🤩
I think that Jared Halverson has an immense wealth of knowledge and he understands the LDS viewpoint, doctrine and theology quite well, better than perhaps anybody. I personally would say better than some of the Quorum of the 12. Or maybe what I mean by that is to say that the way he expresses himself is so easy to understand, the way he takes deep doctrine and makes it accessible to anyone. He also has an extremely good understanding of mainstream Christianity, having worked in interfaith dialogue for decades.
As a Jewish lds, it’s so difficult to navigate my other faith when this is my only Christian perspective on life, while you have an evangelical background, I’d love to talk to you more about my experience
This was a very good conversation.
Great convo. One of my very favorites.