sorry for the pain that's is caused by this crap they taught especially about the Civil right movement being bad it wasn't, Martin L King is a hero!! You are learning truths now and can make informed decision to get out!!
Ex-Mormon now. Raised Mormon. Lived in Utah. Moved to Mississippi as a kid in 70s. It was culture shock both race wise and religion wise. First time meeting black people and first time living in a region where we were religious minority.
I am Polynesian, born and raised in the Church in Hawaii, and lived in Provo for 2 years in the 90s. Provo was the first place I experienced being treated with racism. It was strange, I was looked at as exotic on one hand and strange on the other hand. Served my mission in Houston, TX and did not experience that there. I’ve stepped away from the Church after my mission because I find myself not being able to believe in many Church doctrines and not able to tolerate many ʻpolicies’. These episodes are reassuring.
What a very LDS STORY: putting on the outer appearnace of being law abiding and righteous, wanting all the financial benefits and gains they can gain, but lying, being utterly unrighteous, and breaking laws.
This is the story of all conservative, religious, white men, it's much more than just the LDS. The mormons are always 20-40 years behind the rest of the American bigot movemment.
This series is so fascinating! My dad, from Jacksonville, FL attended BYU in the 60s and early 70s. He told so many stories from his time there. One of them being made fun of a lot due to his majorly southern accent. He had never been out of the southern U.S. and didn’t even know he had a southern accent. He earned a masters degree from BYU in political science (first and only child in his family to get a college degree). He was a poor southern white boy and the education changed his life. He died last year at the age of 81.
Thanks John for all the hard work and effort you and your team put in. I resigned from the church in August and today my records have been officially removed from the church. Loving all the truth and knowledge you and your guests share. The sessions with Lds discussions really helped me understand the realities of the churches history so thank you! 2nd class saints has also been a great read and I'm grateful to be alive when this info is coming out. Cheers to the next chapters of life!!!
Those of us dealing with the politics of LD$ & BYU are trying to get out but its financially tough!! Family, friends & support will lash out in the most gas lighting ways imaginable. All our authorities are of mormon foundations.
In South Africa I saw white children of LDS members shipping their children to Utah after they completed high school. They didn't want their daughters to meet non-white boys. There are lots if families in Utah who welcomed them to their homes. It surprised me to hear that the girls were soon engaged. Working for a Mormon boss sure was an eye opener. I felt that having the Church Elders & Bishops think highly of members was more important than pleasing God.
@@Hallahanify Of course there were and are white girls. The Mormon white girls were the ones shipped out to Utah. The r@cism was very strong in that community.
I attended BYU from 1982-84. Sadly racism was still rampant around campus. I’m from Alaska, one of the most racially diverse states; I played sports and had black friends throughout school, and never really thought much about it. My parents taught us to love everyone, and contrary to church teachings at the time, my parents didn’t care who I dated, and living in a small town with a tiny Mormon population, I dated non members of different races and religions. All mom and dad cared about was that they had good character and treated me well. The first time I ever heard the “N” word, other than from Richard Pryor’s comedy albums was at BYU. I was horrified. There were only a few black students attending at that time. Most of them were on sports teams. I made friends with a black student on the football team, he was my lab partner in one of my science classes. He was a nice guy, and we had fun in class together. He called me one weekend after an away game, he’d missed a lecture and wanted to review my notes. We made plans for him to drop by my dorm and I’d fill him in on the lecture. I’d help him out and take a tape recorder for classes he’d have to miss due to his demanding football schedule. (My dad was a pro football player so I knew something about how hard student athletes work) He was a super nice guy, but there were no romantic feelings on either side, totally platonic. I was dating one of his friends on the team, and he had a girl back home, so we’re were both “taken “ In heritage halls, we were allowed to have boys in our apartment. They had a curfew and of course they couldn’t come into our bedroom. My friend and I would study at the kitchen table, and most of my roommate were out of the apartment in class or out with their boyfriends. We finished up our studies one evening and I walked him to the main entrance on my way to the laundry room to put my clothes in the dryer. My RA (we had a married student couple who lived in the dorm) gave my friend and odd look as I waved goodbye and went to rescue my laundry. He was waiting at the top of the stairs for me. He asked me if I was dating “that black guy” I told him we were lab partners and friends, did he want to see if i could get him football tickets or something? He looked upset. Do you know that the brethren have counseled us against interracial marriage? I was blown away at his audacity. Uhhh dude i don’t think who I marry or date is anyone’s business, so back off. I got called into the bishops office the following Sunday and given the third degree. My bishop threatened to call my parents?? Wtf? I called his bluff. My dad was one of the first pro players to volunteer to room with a black player on the road in 1958. My mom started a fair housing initiative in our neighborhood to end racial discrimination…so yeah, my parents are progressive and they don’t give a damn who I see. And if I was dating a black football player my dad would be thrilled, because…football. I tolerated that homogeneous cesspool for one more year and then transferred to a real college without the groupthink. Ugh. Bad memories at that place.
Sheila, thank you for taking the time to write that detailed part of your life. I went to BYU and stayed there at Helaman Halls in 81-82. You went through a lot, and I just shake my head when I hear how crazy and fearful and idiotic the Mormon church was in writing all the prejudice communications evidence they wrote down. If a Creator wanted to talk to man about how to live righteously he or she would first say to not base you kindness/love to others on their skin color.
Wow this is awesome. Robert Barker was my stake president. I had no idea he was representing the church back then. Fascinating to know the backstory now. Thanks John and Geraldo and Matt! Keep it coming!
So interesting that all of these problematic men that are mentioned in church history videos have a building named after them at BYU, but the ones that push for change like Brown are not commemorated. Byu is so much more problematic in its founding and structure than I ever knew. I thought that maybe if they renamed BYU because Brigham Young was a nasty guy and said horrible things, they'd be better off, but it's so much deeper than that. I mean the Wilkenson center is the student center for goodness sakes.
There have been black soldiers fighting since the Revolutionary War. Recognition, benefits, etc. were a long time coming but they fought as patriots from the start of this country.
Ok great, so if it is a policy, maybe they will change it? What about their brand new policy for trans people? My child is non-binary. They informed me of this when they were 19, now they are 21. Their first calling at age 18 was to help in the nursery and they loved those children. With this new policy they would never be able to work with children again and would have a note placed on their record, stating that what? They have had no surgery, they have had no hormones, have not even changed their name, they just don't feel like a girl or a boy and asked us to use the they/them pronouns. So they are now in danger of having a note on their record the way they do for pedophiles, sexual predators and abusers. I have had to tell them not to come to church anymore if they don't want to, because, how could I let anyone treat my child like that who has done nothing wrong? I am floored that the Church is risking so much dissension in the ranks by forcing people to choose between church and their children!! I Will Always Support My Child. Especially when I see them trying to carry on and figure life out and just get through a day. And the Church wants to group them in with abusers, pedophiles and sexual predators. Unbelievable. Not sure how much longer I will keep going, especially if they don't change that.
@Bunchoeves: thats beautiful ! You're not alone. We are pioneers of love, & spirituality- mormons will never get it. After years of being a temple mormon I did get out of it. Felt like switching left & right hand gloves & typing, none of it was truth or felt right. So I threw them out. Therefor, years later, when my kid wasn't growing & remained very small even by 18 yrs. he loved people XX or XY- What is more spiritual than looking into ones soul & loving them regardless of sex, wealth & skin color- my LD$ husband wanted to put him in conversion therapy. We did divorce. I left Utah for continued medical help. Remembering the cult-ture is less than 200 yrs old. Medical treatment was not available. In CO Marci Bowers diagnosed her inter sexed. I worked two jobs & it cost me everything for letters of therapy, & surgeries. 15 yrs ago NO insurance would help even though there were genital tumors as well. Because they couldn't check a gender box. NO mormonFamily help or support either!! It was a tough year! Alone! She came back to Utah with new name, birth cert. SS cards & all. She's so happy. We were treated much worse in Utah than I ever imagined. Run from judgment before it ruins the entire family. Why wallow in something that is a facade of gas lighting & guilt? Its like the stone ages here. Why not research and move on? there is so much to learn & love. My daughter is educated, loving, kind, holds down a job, and loves male and females and yes has morals! My oldest, son is a temple mormon and so are his kids. Its their path. But my next one just came out gay. How beautiful is that? Who is Utah cult-ture to make evil at seeing in to a soul and having a life buddy? SICK ! none of their business what my posterity number is or what we do in our own homes! I dont miss guilt for teaching love, I dont miss giving money away monthly for nothing. I dont miss ward gossip, assignments and perfect picture presentations in church. Be Proud Be Happy !
@@Mrs.Robinsons thank you to everyone for the kind words, Ruby-wow! That is hard, you are amazing! My mother (also Mormon)(but we live in California-makes things easier) taught me growing to love everyone. She was a nurse and had a huge heart. She helped with free medical care for homeless and she taught me to love and not fear anyone. She didn't understand either why the church couldn't look at a gay couple and see their worth as a loving family.
It’s always interesting hearing non Blacks talk about sociology and racism. I do understand this show is from the former Mormon perspective, but lots of civil rights context missing here. Anyway my own apologetics learning and recent Mormon proselytizing experience have led me to this channel. Lots of good content. The young men who stopped by my door had no clue who they ran into, lol. I had lots of Christian theology, world experience to share, and civil rights was part of the discussion.
This particular episode is not about civil rights, which is a subject I know very well since I teach it and since I write about it. You might see my book; I talk about civil rights and the church extensively in two of the chapters.
When my husband went to BYU in the early 2000's girls would OFTEN turn him down because he is Latin and from the tribe of Manasseh. They only wanted a righteous man from the tribe of Ephraim. Disgusting. They don't know what they are missing.❤
In the 2000s?! This would have been in my era and I’ve never heard any LDS young adult talk about the the traits they want in a future spouse to include which “tribe” they are from. Then again, I didn’t go to BYU.
Our TN ward baptized our first black member in early 80s (‘81-82). Never saw that person ever return and I thought, even as a kid, how odd this was. Was this some push from leadership and this situation was a result?
I was raised here in Utah County. Both parents being therapists for the church. I know my mom would have supported me dating and getting married to a black man, but I really think my dad would have flipped out.
I think it needs to be remembered and mentioned that Russell Nelson also taught against interracial marriages in his BYU speech of January 1995. It is titled A More Excellent Hope. He said that the commandment to love our neighbors without discrimination is certain, but then he added that, that only applies generally. He said when it comes to marriage, we need to be more careful about loving our neighbors and not be too hasty to marry someone outside of our own ethnicity. True, he did try to make it sound a little bit softer sounding than that, but he basically taught against interracial marriages. He makes me sick, because he is the current president of the church and as far as I know, he still feels the exact same way that he did back then. Plus 1995 is pretty recent to be teaching those kinds of things in my opinion. He also gave the same talk the next general conference, but left out the part about interracial marriages, but it can still be found in his footnotes.
My dad ran track and said BYU was so rude! He didn’t go there but when they would compete with them they were jerks. I almost went there thank God I didn’t. Would never want to go there now with that history.
@16:22 “He was just that way” Dr. Harris, with all due respect, what you’re describing is sexual misconduct. It was sexual misconduct back then too but people got away with it, because nobody enforced the rules.
I'm going to say this I'm only going to probably just say it once 2.5 billion years ago there were no other groups of races here but the African man and African woman here on this Earth so if you want to say cursed I Don't know believe so
@@Latter-dailyDigest Yeah, 2.5 billion years ago, there were still only single cell organisms in the oceans, and oxygen was just being to be measurable in the atmosphere. What we would call “modern humans” in Africa came about 250,000 years ago.
“‘In 1953, a First Presidency secretary also informed a white Mormon about the less-obvious extent of Utah’s racial segregation: “The L.D.S. Hospital here in Salt Lake City has a blood bank which does not contain any colored blood.” According to presidency counselor J. Reuben Clark, this policy of segregating African-American blood from the blood donated by so-called “white people” was intended “to protect the purity of the blood streams of the people of this Church.”’ Quote is from historian D. Michael Quinn’s article on ‘Utah Mormon discrimination against the Blacks’
How absurd keeps the black people out the BYU university. Black People is on basis of Christianity. Egiptians have Brown skins. Nowadays sudaneses and Ethiopes are in majority black skin.
I’m a never Mormon who just enjoys listening to a lot of this stuff and first of all it’s been interesting because even as much as my church, the Roman Catholic Church has changed in the 60s, it never was a part of Catholicism to restrict things based on race. Sure there were plenty of people who may use their faith to do such a thing, and there were times where such things were twisted. You can see this with the rise of fascism in Europe and many Catholics or at the very least cultural Catholics, easily picked up racial ideals, or in the United States you see Catholics, particularly in the American south, and Louisiana especially , which is the only place Catholicism was really a majority or plurality , faith, and used it to keep up racist views. Even with these wrongs, the church itself never had a position that said you have to be this or you have to be so so to do this. You just had to be Catholic. at least in theory it should’ve worked out, but obviously it never did. Same goes for most other protestant churches. I find it funny that in Mormonism they made it that you could not get the equivalent of confirmation or adult baptism if you were a black man. It gets even when I hear that it was just African descent and to me it just seems really strange. especially when times and other churches had people who are the champions of civil rights and sure there were arguments but at the end of the day follow that you didn’t need to be a certain race to be any closer to God and that honestly such an idea is bullshit. I find it funny too, that the Mormon apostles felt they had to make it seem like revelation. It’s funny that they almost seem to hold to a kind of infallibility even more than say the pope of my Roman Catholic Church does. Pope Francis seemingly isn’t going to just say God told me this and now it’s law. I don’t think the Mormon prophets do either but there are plenty of people who think they do and it seems as if in the past they wanted to really keep to this idea in Mormonism and I’m sure there were popes that wanted to do this in Catholicism too, I can’t be biased towards my own side. It’s funny that the Mormon apostles do seem to be kind of stricter on the lay man's stereotype of what infallibility is since most. Catholics think we are just having the pope talk to God for us when really it’s more about interpretation there’s all sorts of theological positions, you can go to a number of places to look it up, the Mormons seem they literally are talking to God in the Salt Lake Temple. Even as a devout religious person I know that communication with God isn’t going to work this way and well it’s strange that even if the Mormon leadership knows this they still kind of want to keep that image. Frankly, it’s dangerous. Even as a very devout Catholic, I would think Pope Francis was crazy if he saw Jesus and said he talked to him every day. once things happen it’s pretty miraculous and to my knowledge such a claim would have to be vetted to it even be considered official in the church as there are plenty of visionaries, who not only are just outright frauds, but who can’t back up their claims. Mormonism seems to have this too. It’s funny how in the case of Mormonism it seems as an outsider like they’re glad to push these stories even if there’s no basis to back them up. Sorry for the rant John. I hope I didn’t go too far off tangent, but it’s just been interesting listening to this, especially somebody who is not a Mormon is only barely been to Utah and really I’m only interested just because of hearing about the Mormon Trail growing up in rural Nebraska. Thanks. - Edited For spelling as I originally did this through text to speech.
The problem is that the members never hold the leaders accountable for anything. They always support everything they say and do under the false pretense that they speak for God. Until members develop a commitment to the truth and dignity and stand up against lies and deceit and false doctrines, the church will continue to have problems in the future.
I'm filled with some compassion for the Brethren. 1) They ACTUALLY believe they're called of god. 2) They ACTUALLY believe their racism is upheld by doctrine. 3) They KNOW God hasn't revealed anything new. They're embarrassed to be wrong, to be racist, to not be receiving revelation. They're completely stuck.
I suggest that the fact that ALL those alleged seers and revelators had no insight into the bible and the fact that NEVER in scripture God draws a racial line anywhere, is just one more evidentiary point of the falsehood of the cult. They seemed to have ignored the fact that Moses married a black woman, a Kushite. There you have it, the choice prophet and seer of the Lord, the instrument of deliverance of Israel. But their bias and soul deep racism would not allow them to see the clarity of the word of God.
Passive aggressive racism, legal, but still very racist...glad to say today, broadly, much of these persons have passed on and their ideas/beliefs have nearly lost all their value to humanities future.
I grew up on Thatcher where Kimball is from. Racism is still strong there. I went to grad school in NJ and knew an RM who wanted to go to BYU. I knew as a black man his prospects would be limited and he would really have a hard time. That was 2008.
The church should not take federal money. Its a trap. Education doesnt need to be that expensive. You need to stand for your values not whats most profitable
To be fair, many universities were segregated until the 1960s, not just Mormons. My great uncle lost his university presidency while attempting to desegregate TCU in the early 60s.
@@scandia67this would have been about 1971-72. My dad taught journalism at BYU and Wilkinson was his department chair. I had met him a couple times. I was in the registration area and for some reason trying to cash a check. I guess I didn’t have my ID. The girl asked me if there was someone who could say I was who I said I was. I just happened to see Wilkinson coming down the hallway. He saw me and said hi. I asked him if he would confirm who I was. He looked at me, looked at the cashier and said I was who I said I was. The cashier looked at him and said, “ Who are you?” I couldn’t believe it. He definitely put her in her place. Interesting… I never saw her again. 🤷🏻♀️
I really admire Dr. Harris and I love his Mormon Stories episodes, but isn't he a little off on his Jack Mormon definition? A Jack Mormon is someone who still believes and defends the church, but doesn't do a very good job about living the Mormon lifestyle (e.g. doesn't go to church, drinks, doesn't pay tithing, etc.).
One would ask, during this period of racism, jesus and his father were still appearing to them in the temple ... and in revelation. That tells you the jesus and god they have.
Hello from Accra Ghana. Thank you Mormon stories. These are the most difficult series but necessary for growth
sorry for the pain that's is caused by this crap they taught especially about the Civil right movement being bad it wasn't, Martin L King is a hero!! You are learning truths now and can make informed decision to get out!!
I was once engaged to a man from Accra. I started sharing these videos with him. He is reconsidering his membership in the Mormon church.
@@dianamoss159I hope your friend will share these real Mormon history videos with many LDS people who are being manipulated by Mormon leaders.
Faraway Ghana. Becareful they dont catch you listening to this information
Your name will go into their black book.
What are they telling you in accra, ghana?
Ex-Mormon now. Raised Mormon. Lived in Utah. Moved to Mississippi as a kid in 70s. It was culture shock both race wise and religion wise. First time meeting black people and first time living in a region where we were religious minority.
I am Polynesian, born and raised in the Church in Hawaii, and lived in Provo for 2 years in the 90s. Provo was the first place I experienced being treated with racism. It was strange, I was looked at as exotic on one hand and strange on the other hand. Served my mission in Houston, TX and did not experience that there. I’ve stepped away from the Church after my mission because I find myself not being able to believe in many Church doctrines and not able to tolerate many ʻpolicies’. These episodes are reassuring.
@@stardust86xwhat denomination?
@@tysonh424 Mormon.
I left the church after my mission as well.. just couldn’t ignore all the obvious issues with it any longer
Exmo in Utah too. There's so much racism and discrimination. I'm more than a baby maker too.
Yes. You are more than a baby maker!
What a very LDS STORY: putting on the outer appearnace of being law abiding and righteous, wanting all the financial benefits and gains they can gain, but lying, being utterly unrighteous, and breaking laws.
This is the story of all conservative, religious, white men, it's much more than just the LDS. The mormons are always 20-40 years behind the rest of the American bigot movemment.
The LDS 12th Article of Faith has always been a lie.
Yep
This series is so fascinating! My dad, from Jacksonville, FL attended BYU in the 60s and early 70s. He told so many stories from his time there. One of them being made fun of a lot due to his majorly southern accent. He had never been out of the southern U.S. and didn’t even know he had a southern accent. He earned a masters degree from BYU in political science (first and only child in his family to get a college degree). He was a poor southern white boy and the education changed his life. He died last year at the age of 81.
My uncle went into the military and got his Ph.D on the GI Bill. You can get an education anywhere.
Thanks John for all the hard work and effort you and your team put in. I resigned from the church in August and today my records have been officially removed from the church. Loving all the truth and knowledge you and your guests share. The sessions with Lds discussions really helped me understand the realities of the churches history so thank you!
2nd class saints has also been a great read and I'm grateful to be alive when this info is coming out. Cheers to the next chapters of life!!!
Excellent episode again. Thank you all
It's time for people to wake up 😢
Those of us dealing with the politics of LD$ & BYU are trying to get out but its financially tough!! Family, friends & support will lash out in the most gas lighting ways imaginable. All our authorities are of mormon foundations.
Brilliant truth telling, as usual, Matt! Love the book!
In South Africa I saw white children of LDS members shipping their children to Utah after they completed high school. They didn't want their daughters to meet non-white boys. There are lots if families in Utah who welcomed them to their homes. It surprised me to hear that the girls were soon engaged. Working for a Mormon boss sure was an eye opener. I felt that having the Church Elders & Bishops think highly of members was more important than pleasing God.
Were they white south African girls?
@@Hallahanify Of course there were and are white girls. The Mormon white girls were the ones shipped out to Utah. The r@cism was very strong in that community.
I attended BYU from 1982-84. Sadly racism was still rampant around campus. I’m from Alaska, one of the most racially diverse states; I played sports and had black friends throughout school, and never really thought much about it. My parents taught us to love everyone, and contrary to church teachings at the time, my parents didn’t care who I dated, and living in a small town with a tiny Mormon population, I dated non members of different races and religions. All mom and dad cared about was that they had good character and treated me well. The first time I ever heard the “N” word, other than from Richard Pryor’s comedy albums was at BYU. I was horrified. There were only a few black students attending at that time. Most of them were on sports teams. I made friends with a black student on the football team, he was my lab partner in one of my science classes. He was a nice guy, and we had fun in class together. He called me one weekend after an away game, he’d missed a lecture and wanted to review my notes. We made plans for him to drop by my dorm and I’d fill him in on the lecture. I’d help him out and take a tape recorder for classes he’d have to miss due to his demanding football schedule. (My dad was a pro football player so I knew something about how hard student athletes work) He was a super nice guy, but there were no romantic feelings on either side, totally platonic. I was dating one of his friends on the team, and he had a girl back home, so we’re were both “taken “ In heritage halls, we were allowed to have boys in our apartment. They had a curfew and of course they couldn’t come into our bedroom. My friend and I would study at the kitchen table, and most of my roommate were out of the apartment in class or out with their boyfriends. We finished up our studies one evening and I walked him to the main entrance on my way to the laundry room to put my clothes in the dryer. My RA (we had a married student couple who lived in the dorm) gave my friend and odd look as I waved goodbye and went to rescue my laundry. He was waiting at the top of the stairs for me. He asked me if I was dating “that black guy” I told him we were lab partners and friends, did he want to see if i could get him football tickets or something? He looked upset. Do you know that the brethren have counseled us against interracial marriage? I was blown away at his audacity. Uhhh dude i don’t think who I marry or date is anyone’s business, so back off. I got called into the bishops office the following Sunday and given the third degree. My bishop threatened to call my parents?? Wtf? I called his bluff. My dad was one of the first pro players to volunteer to room with a black player on the road in 1958. My mom started a fair housing initiative in our neighborhood to end racial discrimination…so yeah, my parents are progressive and they don’t give a damn who I see. And if I was dating a black football player my dad would be thrilled, because…football. I tolerated that homogeneous cesspool for one more year and then transferred to a real college without the groupthink. Ugh. Bad memories at that place.
Sheila, thank you for taking the time to write that detailed part of your life. I went to BYU and stayed there at Helaman Halls in 81-82. You went through a lot, and I just shake my head when I hear how crazy and fearful and idiotic the Mormon church was in writing all the prejudice communications evidence they wrote down. If a Creator wanted to talk to man about how to live righteously he or she would first say to not base you kindness/love to others on their skin color.
Thanks!
Wow this is awesome. Robert Barker was my stake president. I had no idea he was representing the church back then. Fascinating to know the backstory now. Thanks John and Geraldo and Matt! Keep it coming!
Mormon Stories means more good stories. 😊
Great episode. This history breaks my heart.
What about the divine doctrine, any better?
So interesting that all of these problematic men that are mentioned in church history videos have a building named after them at BYU, but the ones that push for change like Brown are not commemorated. Byu is so much more problematic in its founding and structure than I ever knew. I thought that maybe if they renamed BYU because Brigham Young was a nasty guy and said horrible things, they'd be better off, but it's so much deeper than that. I mean the Wilkenson center is the student center for goodness sakes.
Not only black students, but their poor members that paid their titles and offering too.
I never paid tithing I was never kicked out
Remember black soldiers fought and died in second world war...still the racism continued...sickening..😢😢😢
There have been black soldiers fighting since the Revolutionary War. Recognition, benefits, etc. were a long time coming but they fought as patriots from the start of this country.
Ok great, so if it is a policy, maybe they will change it? What about their brand new policy for trans people? My child is non-binary. They informed me of this when they were 19, now they are 21. Their first calling at age 18 was to help in the nursery and they loved those children. With this new policy they would never be able to work with children again and would have a note placed on their record, stating that what? They have had no surgery, they have had no hormones, have not even changed their name, they just don't feel like a girl or a boy and asked us to use the they/them pronouns. So they are now in danger of having a note on their record the way they do for pedophiles, sexual predators and abusers. I have had to tell them not to come to church anymore if they don't want to, because, how could I let anyone treat my child like that who has done nothing wrong?
I am floored that the Church is risking so much dissension in the ranks by forcing people to choose between church and their children!! I Will Always Support My Child. Especially when I see them trying to carry on and figure life out and just get through a day. And the Church wants to group them in with abusers, pedophiles and sexual predators. Unbelievable. Not sure how much longer I will keep going, especially if they don't change that.
You are an amazing parent ❤
@Bunchoeves: thats beautiful ! You're not alone. We are pioneers of love, & spirituality- mormons will never get it. After years of being a temple mormon I did get out of it. Felt like switching left & right hand gloves & typing, none of it was truth or felt right. So I threw them out. Therefor, years later, when my kid wasn't growing & remained very small even by 18 yrs. he loved people XX or XY- What is more spiritual than looking into ones soul & loving them regardless of sex, wealth & skin color- my LD$ husband wanted to put him in conversion therapy. We did divorce. I left Utah for continued medical help. Remembering the cult-ture is less than 200 yrs old. Medical treatment was not available. In CO Marci Bowers diagnosed her inter sexed. I worked two jobs & it cost me everything for letters of therapy, & surgeries. 15 yrs ago NO insurance would help even though there were genital tumors as well. Because they couldn't check a gender box. NO mormonFamily help or support either!! It was a tough year! Alone! She came back to Utah with new name, birth cert. SS cards & all. She's so happy. We were treated much worse in Utah than I ever imagined. Run from judgment before it ruins the entire family. Why wallow in something that is a facade of gas lighting & guilt? Its like the stone ages here. Why not research and move on? there is so much to learn & love.
My daughter is educated, loving, kind, holds down a job, and loves male and females and yes has morals! My oldest, son is a temple mormon and so are his kids. Its their path. But my next one just came out gay. How beautiful is that? Who is Utah cult-ture to make evil at seeing in to a soul and having a life buddy? SICK ! none of their business what my posterity number is or what we do in our own homes! I dont miss guilt for teaching love, I dont miss giving money away monthly for nothing. I dont miss ward gossip, assignments and perfect picture presentations in church. Be Proud Be Happy !
You are an awesome parent! They will not get away with oppressing the innocent, while exusing the guilty. Keep up the good work! You are not alone!
@@Mrs.Robinsons thank you to everyone for the kind words, Ruby-wow! That is hard, you are amazing! My mother (also Mormon)(but we live in California-makes things easier) taught me growing to love everyone. She was a nurse and had a huge heart. She helped with free medical care for homeless and she taught me to love and not fear anyone. She didn't understand either why the church couldn't look at a gay couple and see their worth as a loving family.
It’s always interesting hearing non Blacks talk about sociology and racism. I do understand this show is from the former Mormon perspective, but lots of civil rights context missing here. Anyway my own apologetics learning and recent Mormon proselytizing experience have led me to this channel. Lots of good content. The young men who stopped by my door had no clue who they ran into, lol. I had lots of Christian theology, world experience to share, and civil rights was part of the discussion.
This particular episode is not about civil rights, which is a subject I know very well since I teach it and since I write about it. You might see my book; I talk about civil rights and the church extensively in two of the chapters.
@@matthewharris7151 understood.
Duplicitous, dishonest, and disgusting. Besides being illegal.
When my husband went to BYU in the early 2000's girls would OFTEN turn him down because he is Latin and from the tribe of Manasseh. They only wanted a righteous man from the tribe of Ephraim. Disgusting. They don't know what they are missing.❤
In the 2000s?! This would have been in my era and I’ve never heard any LDS young adult talk about the the traits they want in a future spouse to include which “tribe” they are from. Then again, I didn’t go to BYU.
@Atillatcele I also did not go to BYU. That was what he told me. Maybe he just had really bad luck. Obviously, his "tribe" did not matter to me.
Our TN ward baptized our first black member in early 80s (‘81-82). Never saw that person ever return and I thought, even as a kid, how odd this was. Was this some push from leadership and this situation was a result?
The Church of Joseph has never done the right thing because it's the right thing to do.
I like the intro music - every new video is so eye-opening.
I was raised here in Utah County. Both parents being therapists for the church. I know my mom would have supported me dating and getting married to a black man, but I really think my dad would have flipped out.
I think it needs to be remembered and mentioned that Russell Nelson also taught against interracial marriages in his BYU speech of January 1995. It is titled A More Excellent Hope. He said that the commandment to love our neighbors without discrimination is certain, but then he added that, that only applies generally. He said when it comes to marriage, we need to be more careful about loving our neighbors and not be too hasty to marry someone outside of our own ethnicity. True, he did try to make it sound a little bit softer sounding than that, but he basically taught against interracial marriages. He makes me sick, because he is the current president of the church and as far as I know, he still feels the exact same way that he did back then. Plus 1995 is pretty recent to be teaching those kinds of things in my opinion. He also gave the same talk the next general conference, but left out the part about interracial marriages, but it can still be found in his footnotes.
Doesn’t that make the whole thing untrue? Why would the brethren not have known something so important and need to be convinced?
Hello, from Halliday, Utah! ♥️🎻🇺🇲😎
Every time I hear the “N” word it makes me cringe.
FYI… dances at the Steelworkers Hall were packed every weekend with BYU students when I was there, ‘65-‘69, and we’d Twist the Night Away!
Excellent as always
My dad ran track and said BYU was so rude! He didn’t go there but when they would compete with them they were jerks. I almost went there thank God I didn’t. Would never want to go there now with that history.
I wish we could donate more.
I was at BYU during that time 64-68.
Great episode. TFS.
I’m referred as a Jack Mormon after leaving the church but not removing my records.
@16:22 “He was just that way”
Dr. Harris, with all due respect, what you’re describing is sexual misconduct. It was sexual misconduct back then too but people got away with it, because nobody enforced the rules.
I'm going to say this I'm only going to probably just say it once 2.5 billion years ago there were no other groups of races here but the African man and African woman here on this Earth so if you want to say cursed I Don't know believe so
But maybe only 2.5 million years ago💯🖕😊😉
Life began in Africa.
@@Latter-dailyDigest Yeah, 2.5 billion years ago, there were still only single cell organisms in the oceans, and oxygen was just being to be measurable in the atmosphere. What we would call “modern humans” in Africa came about 250,000 years ago.
I have heard the “one drop” rule a few times, I am wondering if someone can comment on how the Mormon Leaders related the rule to blood transfusions.
We discussed in a previous episode!!!
“‘In 1953, a First Presidency secretary also informed a white Mormon about the less-obvious extent of Utah’s racial segregation: “The L.D.S. Hospital here in Salt Lake City has a blood bank which does not contain any colored blood.” According to presidency counselor J. Reuben Clark, this policy of segregating African-American blood from the blood donated by so-called “white people” was intended “to protect the purity of the blood streams of the people of this Church.”’
Quote is from historian D. Michael Quinn’s article on ‘Utah Mormon discrimination against the Blacks’
Where are these kids parents? NO Black parent should allow their children anywhere near Utah in the first place.
How absurd keeps the black people out the BYU university. Black People is on basis of Christianity. Egiptians have Brown skins. Nowadays sudaneses and Ethiopes are in majority black skin.
Logic seems to escape these people as evidenced by the proliferation of painting on their walls of a white Jesus.
It’s all of Utah!!!!!
I’m a never Mormon who just enjoys listening to a lot of this stuff and first of all it’s been interesting because even as much as my church, the Roman Catholic Church has changed in the 60s, it never was a part of Catholicism to restrict things based on race. Sure there were plenty of people who may use their faith to do such a thing, and there were times where such things were twisted.
You can see this with the rise of fascism in Europe and many Catholics or at the very least cultural Catholics, easily picked up racial ideals, or in the United States you see Catholics, particularly in the American south, and Louisiana especially , which is the only place Catholicism was really a majority or plurality , faith, and used it to keep up racist views. Even with these wrongs, the church itself never had a position that said you have to be this or you have to be so so to do this. You just had to be Catholic. at least in theory it should’ve worked out, but obviously it never did. Same goes for most other protestant churches.
I find it funny that in Mormonism they made it that you could not get the equivalent of confirmation or adult baptism if you were a black man. It gets even when I hear that it was just African descent and to me it just seems really strange. especially when times and other churches had people who are the champions of civil rights and sure there were arguments but at the end of the day follow that you didn’t need to be a certain race to be any closer to God and that honestly such an idea is bullshit.
I find it funny too, that the Mormon apostles felt they had to make it seem like revelation. It’s funny that they almost seem to hold to a kind of infallibility even more than say the pope of my Roman Catholic Church does. Pope Francis seemingly isn’t going to just say God told me this and now it’s law. I don’t think the Mormon prophets do either but there are plenty of people who think they do and it seems as if in the past they wanted to really keep to this idea in Mormonism and I’m sure there were popes that wanted to do this in Catholicism too, I can’t be biased towards my own side.
It’s funny that the Mormon apostles do seem to be kind of stricter on the lay man's stereotype of what infallibility is since most. Catholics think we are just having the pope talk to God for us when really it’s more about interpretation there’s all sorts of theological positions, you can go to a number of places to look it up, the Mormons seem they literally are talking to God in the Salt Lake Temple. Even as a devout religious person I know that communication with God isn’t going to work this way and well it’s strange that even if the Mormon leadership knows this they still kind of want to keep that image.
Frankly, it’s dangerous. Even as a very devout Catholic, I would think Pope Francis was crazy if he saw Jesus and said he talked to him every day. once things happen it’s pretty miraculous and to my knowledge such a claim would have to be vetted to it even be considered official in the church as there are plenty of visionaries, who not only are just outright frauds, but who can’t back up their claims. Mormonism seems to have this too. It’s funny how in the case of Mormonism it seems as an outsider like they’re glad to push these stories even if there’s no basis to back them up. Sorry for the rant John. I hope I didn’t go too far off tangent, but it’s just been interesting listening to this, especially somebody who is not a Mormon is only barely been to Utah and really I’m only interested just because of hearing about the Mormon Trail growing up in rural Nebraska. Thanks. - Edited For spelling as I originally did this through text to speech.
The problem is that the members never hold the leaders accountable for anything. They always support everything they say and do under the false pretense that they speak for God. Until members develop a commitment to the truth and dignity and stand up against lies and deceit and false doctrines, the church will continue to have problems in the future.
Citing restricted materials is ridiculous… I’m an ex Mormon and want to believe what this guy is saying but come on man…
Good, I've been trying to think of some ideas.
I'm filled with some compassion for the Brethren. 1) They ACTUALLY believe they're called of god. 2) They ACTUALLY believe their racism is upheld by doctrine. 3) They KNOW God hasn't revealed anything new. They're embarrassed to be wrong, to be racist, to not be receiving revelation. They're completely stuck.
I suggest that the fact that ALL those alleged seers and revelators had no insight into the bible and the fact that NEVER in scripture God draws a racial line anywhere, is just one more evidentiary point of the falsehood of the cult. They seemed to have ignored the fact that Moses married a black woman, a Kushite. There you have it, the choice prophet and seer of the Lord, the instrument of deliverance of Israel. But their bias and soul deep racism would not allow them to see the clarity of the word of God.
Passive aggressive racism, legal, but still very racist...glad to say today, broadly, much of these persons have passed on and their ideas/beliefs have nearly lost all their value to humanities future.
I grew up on Thatcher where Kimball is from. Racism is still strong there. I went to grad school in NJ and knew an RM who wanted to go to BYU. I knew as a black man his prospects would be limited and he would really have a hard time. That was 2008.
Ernest Wilkinson got his own Honor Code for black BYU students. It's called The Dishonorable Code.
I was just about to go to bed. Its 9:30 pm here in Cali.
Where are you broadcasting from that you are on so late?
He's in Utah. This episode is pre-recorded from June, as he stated at the beginning of the video.
@@lotion_laura the beginning of the video didn't play for some reason or there would have been no reason for me to ask when this was broadcasted lol
The church should not take federal money. Its a trap. Education doesnt need to be that expensive. You need to stand for your values not whats most profitable
To be fair, many universities were segregated until the 1960s, not just Mormons. My great uncle lost his university presidency while attempting to desegregate TCU in the early 60s.
Wilkinson sure made a difference in my dad’s life and not for the good. I do have a funny story about him at BYU and me…..
Do share!
@@scandia67this would have been about 1971-72. My dad taught journalism at BYU and Wilkinson was his department chair. I had met him a couple times. I was in the registration area and for some reason trying to cash a check. I guess I didn’t have my ID. The girl asked me if there was someone who could say I was who I said I was. I just happened to see Wilkinson coming down the hallway. He saw me and said hi. I asked him if he would confirm who I was. He looked at me, looked at the cashier and said I was who I said I was. The cashier looked at him and said, “ Who are you?” I couldn’t believe it. He definitely put her in her place. Interesting… I never saw her again. 🤷🏻♀️
I really admire Dr. Harris and I love his Mormon Stories episodes, but isn't he a little off on his Jack Mormon definition? A Jack Mormon is someone who still believes and defends the church, but doesn't do a very good job about living the Mormon lifestyle (e.g. doesn't go to church, drinks, doesn't pay tithing, etc.).
It seems like the churches playbook on obfuscating and hiding unpopular teachings is a lot older than I thought lol
Sorry did I hear that right? You said the church briefly lost their tax exemption status around 69?
Almost lost it.
NeverMo here. Is "brotheren," or "bretheren?"
It's brethren
On the form letter to discourage prospective black students, how would they know they were black?
One would ask, during this period of racism, jesus and his father were still appearing to them in the temple ... and in revelation. That tells you the jesus and god they have.
Evil church, judt evil
You're not going to eliminate discrimination. Evolutionary psychology has pretty much demonstrated that idea...
Race is a construct that has only existed since the 16th century. Stop hiding your racism behind a veil of half baked or misunderstood science
2 hours and 14 minutes of handwringing and assorted excrement just to come to the logical conclusion
Thanks!