Fun fact: Cleopatra's daughter, Cleopatra Selene, was later on married off to Juba II of Mauretania, a Roman client king, and they went on to house many Ptolemaic people who had left Egypt. Their son was named Ptolemy of Mauretania.
@@ATMOSK1234 That was his father, Juba I of Numidia, who defeated Gaius Scribonius Curio at the Battle of Bagradas in 49 BCE. Later on, when Caesar was finished with Pompey, he came back to Africa and invaded Numidia with his ally, Bocchus I of Mauretania, defeating Juba I and causing him to die in 46 BCE. His son Juba II was only an infant at the time, and he was brought to Rome and given a Roman education. Later on, after Augustus took over, he married Cleopatra Selene to Juba II, and gave them back Numidia in 30 BCE, and then transferred them to Mauretania in 25 BCE.
@@gearlordgeneration6673 Nowhere close - a lot of people who lived 2000 years ago didn't have kids at all. (Childhood mortality rate being the most prominent reason. Some cultures avoided giving names to those under five because of how high the infant mortality rate was.) Additionally it's only been a little more than 500 years since the Colombian exchange. Everyone today of European descent is related to every European from 2000 years ago that has living descendants at all but not everyone has an Asian ancestor or an Aborigine ancestor.
Lies: Rather than being booed by the crowd and crying, Arsinoe (Cleopatra's sister) won the Roman crowd over during Ceasar's triumph, so when it was time for her execution they all shouted at Ceasar to let her live, which he did. Cleopatra was unhappy with that, since she still considered Arsinoe a rival, and had Marc Antony execute her later.
Yeah, it's bizarre they tried to portray her sister as a victim of Rome's militaristic culture when they themselves said Cleopatra had her killed like last episode or something.
This is exactly what I was going to say Also "Historia Civilis" made a video about Ceasar's Triumphs, explaining what happend to Arsinoe th-cam.com/video/fD-R35DSSZY/w-d-xo.html
They also forgot to mention that Cleopatra tried to seduce Octavian like she had done with Anthony and Caesar, but this time it didn't work. Probably wouldn't fit their narrative either that the strong independent woman would try and fail at something.
Legends say that Octavian's general Marcus Vipsanius Agrippa trained the Roman Navy for the fight at Actium via a huge lake he dug in a single night with nothing but a shovel and a bucket.
@@napoleoniv2646 Certainly. I'm a big fan of the series that taught me how Caesar was Cleopatra's puppet and how she epic style dunked on him, Anthony and Octavian.
@@twoscarabsintheswarm9055 I'm interested too. I noticed how EC basically bent the whole history to make the world completely surround Cleopatra. I wanna know what else I missed!
@@Rakonax I saw the big mistakes (realised they're not huge but still not small) of saying that Cleopatra "dunked" on Caesar, Antony and Octavian. I infact, belive that Octavian dunked on her and she was neither dunked on or dunked on Caesar and Antony. And next is the fact that they implied Cleopatra liked her sister, who she wanted to kill and that they ignored that from a few accounts, Cleopatra's sister won over the people during Caesars triumph (the people started as booing, but soon turned to cheers for her as someone said) and when Caesar was about to kill Her, he heard her popularity and let her go
I would like to remind the court that as far as I know cleopatra sister was sent to Rome with cleopatra blessing and she was quite crossed when Caesar gave into the crowd demands and didn't strangle her
Still he's not wrong for all of Octavian's many abilities he was not much of a military mind without Agrippa the story of Cleopatra could have been very different
@@starkey0 Still, this is Cleopatra's story, not Octavian's. I'm sure he'll get mentioned in Lies, but if you get bogged down with asides in the main series you end up ruining the flow something harsh.
"For reasons unknown..." Oh you mean like a bunch of captains defecting and sabotaging their fleet so the Roman's pulled up and burnt the the entire flotilla in minutes?
Not to mention that Arsinoe (Cleopatra's sister) was actually spared by the crowds of Rome that she paraded through. She was not saved by Caesar's mercy, she was saved by Caesar having to listen the crowd's demands.
@@mjbull5156 this is true but caesar also loved his thriumps and it was only when the crowd showed displeasure that he would show mercy. He was a populist because it was what served him better. Had the crowd not intervene he would have likely had her strangled, same for the numedian boy king on the following thriumps. Caesar liked to spare Roman generals and soldiers those who were not were at the mercy of what was more useful to Caesar
I guess she dunked on Octavian by.... triumph blue balling him? Eh, seems kinda like a small thing compared to controlling all of the Mediterranean and the prosperous Egypt and oh yeah, just this small thing.... becoming the first Roman emperor, no biggie
Her whole family dying, killing herself, being the last of her line, and her country getting annexed into Rome? Doesn't matter, prevented her old lover's adopted son from having a triumph!
Tbh I haven’t hated this series but I have hated how they suggest that she did me on the best roman leader of the time by having a child with the greatest roman ever and having more kids with another then dying to this firsts adopted son just seems very revisionist cause she defo didn’t dunk on Octavian at all I am biased tho absolutely love ceases and Octavian in their own respects
@@spiko1755 tbh I think that octavian dunked on them all, the infamous Julius ceasar had tried to get absolute power in rome and got assassinated, cleopatra and Anthony had control over the east but both killed themselves after losing the war. Octavian in the other hand united the Mediterranean under his control and had all of the power in rome becoming the first roman emperor
@@stephenking9114 oh a lot here’s some examples: Caesarian was actual a joke name, his real name was Ptolemy Her Sister Arsinoe was never screamed at or humiliated, she was screamed for by the citizens to spare her life. Cleopatra wasn’t the only reason for Caesar’s Murder Cleopatra was never killed by a snake those HURT, she had a bunch of painless poisons for that. The whole “snake death” thing was revision by Plutarch
@@stephenking9114 she was a good,smart and arguably the only Ptolemaic ruler that actually did her job. She isn’t the perfect victim like EC portrays here
Here's something you forgot to mention about the naval battle: One of Antony's generals actually defected to Octavian's side, and brought Antony and Cleopatra's battle plan with him. So Octavian was able to anticipate basically every single move Antony and Cleopatra were going to make. The major tide turner was when Octavian's forces started setting Antony's portion of the fleet on FIRE. Seeing that portion of the fleet burning was what made Cleopatra realize they had been had by Octavian, and she retreated.
She had lost, but she didn't let Octavian humiliate her. Suicide in that case is dying with style, rather than being executed. And I guess she didn't care about his rise to power in Rome, Egypt had already lost.
It's a matter of degrees and perspective. The Romans accepted any win they got, but showing off the looser in public? Prooving the win to everyone? That's a big bonus. Wikipedia: "Vercingetorix was imprisoned in the Tullianum in Rome for almost six years before being publicly displayed in the first of Caesar's four triumphs in 46 BC." That's the length they went for the spectacle and with the usual execution after the triumph everyone could sleep soundly, knowing that this enemy of Rome was dead.
Should have been obvious from the start: One of them died via snake-bite, the other rebranded himself as a living god and started a new golden age for the empire
Poor Octavian. He just used Cleopatra to kill his main rival and take over her country and she had to kill herself instead of being in his triumph. She really dunked on him hard, almost as hard as Brutus did.
Octavian may be the smoothest man on the planet. This legend turned a civil war into "rescue mission" and solidified his power. What kind of political wizardry is this.
This series is a bit of an oddball. Cleopatra played second fiddle in this episode on roman politics. If the height of her conflict has her taking a backseat to Antony I'd say the focus of this episode was off. An already powerful nation with a well connected legitimate ruler with clear line of succession in a stable dynasty doesn't need Antony, so how did Cleopatra sell this to her allies, and why did they join her?
Because Rome was still stronger and with Anthony at her side her dynasty could gain the whole Mediterranean or at leeast the eastern half. (If it worked though the whole thing would go through hella civil wars tho)
Egypt was not a powerful nation at this time in history it was militarily weak and politically overshadowed by Rome. Antony was her clear best bet to maintain and even grow Egyptian influence within that Roman sphere and it almost worked. If Actium had played out differently who knows what could have happened.
They totally needed Antony. Egypt was powerful, but not nearly powerful enough to beat Rome. Rome owned Egypt and allowed it to exist. Antony was utterly irreplaceable because this was always a political conflict, not military one. Antony was needed as leader of Rome, or at least as a strong supporter on the inside. Victories purpose would be just to make war too uncomfortable, while having a roman man lead the royal family and roman man take the leadership position after him. It was always about giving Rome an easy option, but things went wrong and it was not seen as acceptable.
Egypt may have been powerful, but not powerful enough to take on Rome all by itself. At this point, the Roman economy was dependent on importing grain from Egypt, so there is just no way Rome would have left Egypt alone. Especially as Rome had gotten used to receiving tribute from Egypt in exchange for protection during the reign of Cleopatra's father.
Yeah, giving away back then was simply a default no-no. Which the Ancient City here states: socialsciences.mcmaster.ca/econ/ugcm/3ll3/fustel/AncientCity.pdf
@@roguishpaladin Hahahahahahaahaha. Octavian didnt kill the republic, and certainly he didnt killed the roman dream. he killed the patrician Dream btw, it was a dream in wich the corruption was rampant and the rich become richer at expense of the citizens. Ave Imperator, smasher of corruption and son of a God. You all loved him (Caesar) once, not without cause. -Mark Anthony
@@roguishpaladin The “Liberators” and Republic itself was so corrupt people would rather have a king then things to continue. Your honestly ignorant if you simp for Brutus
No mention of the betrayel of Marcus Antonius' general giving agrippa the fleet's battleplans, likely due to Cleopatra joining the battle, or her plan to have the fleet in defence, just being sitting ducks for Agrippa.
The MVP of the civil war. Heck, Augustus didn't even fight in the battles. Agrippa did, from building the fleet that would beat Sextus pompey, to wiping out Anthony- no Cleopatra's (that eastern witch) forces.😢
Why is Cleopatra so unpopular. I wouldn't call her a good person, but as far as historical leaders go, she seems pretty average in terms of wickedness.
@@stephenking9114 Its not that she is unpopular, but these videos are straight up simping for her. Like, implying that she had control of everything in the world at her time including Julius Caesar it's too much. She wasn't the piece in history this video want you to think, although she was important too.
In this episode it is revealed that Cleopatra was the one dunked on by Octavian not the other way around. The best part is she wasnt even the last. The tribes of the Alps who even caesar couldn't conquer and the tribes of northern spain that had thrown back several attempts by rome to conquer them were also dunked on by Octavian.
One thing I don't understand, and maybe it will be covered next episode: how did Cleopatra's suicide scheme make it into history. After all, history is written by the victors, and Octavian was *certainly* the victor. Having a record of the war is one thing, especially when it includes things like "Mark Antony is so lovestruck that he abandoned his forces during the middle of a key battle because his girlfriend did" and "Mark Antony can't even commit suicide properly, the numpty." I'm not sure where "We managed to capture Cleopatra and we were totally going to do the usual parade/execution thing when we got back to Rome, but she did a clever thing and managed to commit suicide in quite possibly the most dramatic way possible just to deny me my victory parade" Yes, Octavian himself isn't writing the histories down, but given this shows up in the Roman histories, it has to have come from him or the handful of soldiers who knew about it - a narrative easily controlled. If it were some fringe story that only showed up in a relative handful of records, it'd make sense, but this makes it into Shakespeare's play on the subject, so it's hardly fringe. Shakespeare was relatively well versed in history, but his time period isn't exactly known for deeply insightful historical analysis based on comparative accounts of relevant sources, so much as just realizing that maybe reading books written by Romans and Greeks is a good idea.
I think Cleopatra's concern was not to be turned into a trophy like her sister. Considering she was Caesar's mistress at the time of his triumph, and her sister was considered her enemy.
Extra Credit for the last 4 episodes: "Cleopatra was a political genius who manipulated the most talented and famous people of the age! YASS QUEEN!" Extra Credit Now: "And so the senate unfairly called Cleopatra a mean manipulator and Octavian painted her as a bad person. :((((("
"Not to be remembered as a concuered woman". Sure thing yeah, but wasn't egypt completely integrated as a roman province, leaving it remembered as a conquered state?
I'm in awe of Cleopatra. She's become insanely fascinating to me once it dawned on me that she was a REAL person, not just some character in stories we grew up learning in school. Love or hate her, you cannot deny that she was incredible.
she wasn't incredible though. If not for her relationships with people who can actually lay the claim to being incredible she would have been forgotten. She was short sighted and personally made decision that brought an end to her dynasty.
The snake bite story has it's detractors. Given that snakes would be too big to smuggle and generally the death from the poison isn't that fast. So it seems unlikely in the short time before the note was received and troops were sent she and her two maid servants would be bitten and died. Hope this will be thoroughly discussed in lies.
Fox's Cleopatra (no, not Foxxy Cleopatra) made in 1963 was the most expensive film made when it was released. 20th Century Fox almost went bankrupt, but the film was successful enough to make a profit. Imagine if a company as influential as 20th Century Fox was desperate enough to sell itself? :|
Yeah, also having films more than 2 hours are almost non-existent. Plus in those days, release of epic movies are considered a grand event. India still does it, but little-to-mixed results as of now. I remember watching Ben-Hur one time (have DVD's of old movies and it lasted almost entire afternoon).
Liz Taylor and Richard Burton romance on screen and in reality was worth it! They also reused the expensive decorations for a bunch of stuff like Caligula.
As always I loved it. I want to point out that the outfit the great artist made for the Roman forces was that of the Hastati and not that of the heavy Legionnaires which were more as the infantry. Where the Hastati were a light range unit. Sorry I love Rome too much to not make this point. Sorry.
idk how but when i saw egypt loos i just heard in my head "at attium! in greece! the navy of our imperator Octavian Caesar! under the command of marcus augustus agripa! has won a desicive victory over queen cleopatra and her slave mark anthony! the egyptian fleet has been destroyed!" that tribute to rome has been engrained into my mind
roman soldier: “hey this basket sounds a little strange” Other Roman soldier: “wdym?” Roman soldier: “well I mean just listen” *hissing noises from basket* Other Roman soldier: eh it’s probably just the figs” Roman soldier: “I don’t think figs hiss” Other Roman soldier: “WELL DO ELEPHANTS SOUND LIKE TRUMPETS?!?!” Roman soldier: “wait what is elephant?”
3:48- Well, it would be ironic later on. Not just Christians, just that they later worship Sol Invictus by Elagabalus and later Aurelian, both of whom are by technicality non-Romans (Cathago-Syrians for former and Illyrians for latter).
Thank you. Asp or Egyptian cobra bite is a pretty grisly way to go, and victims can survive several hours after being bitten. Also these are large snakes, so that would have had to have been some basket. These stories come to us from Roman historians, who were all careful to disclaim that they didn't know the snake story was true for certain. Many modern historians think it's more likely she took poison, possibly by pricking herself with a poisoned pin. It's also possible that Octavian deliberately allowed her suicide to avoid the iffy questions of displaying in his triumph someone his adoptive father had so honored, or risking her garnering sympathy in said triumph as her sister had.
Highly, considering all the sources we have come from Octavian, and this whole "she got bit by a snek and died in gentle repose minutes later" thing is totally not the way snake venom works. Plus the "concealed in a basket" idea doesn't hold much water since the typical size of an adult Egyptian cobra is about two *yards* long
@@iapetusmccool the ptolemaic courts was, pardon the pun, a snake pit, and poisonings were fairly common. Also we have a papyrus indicating Cleopatra tested poisons on condemned criminals. If anybody knew how, she did. It's also possible she drank poison.
Cleopatra didn't just turn around and left Anthony to fend for himself at sea. Rather, as she tried to circle around and attack the Romans from the sides, the weather changed and forced her to return to Egypt or lose her entire fleet.
Out of curiosity, why does all the "Egyptian" music I hear sound so consistent? Do we have well-documented instruments, musical styles, etc. Or is the "Egyptian sound" just a widespread modern invention?
If I remember right we know what kind of instruments they used (and what they sounded like), and have written descriptions of what the music sounded like, but they didn't have a system for recording music like we have today with sheet music. So we have some vague idea of what music at the time sounded like, but have no idea what it actually sounded like. So we might have some record for example saying that the music at a known event was played with flutes and that it was slow and somber, or maybe fast and chaotic, but that's all we really know. Or as another example I could say that the Imperial March from Star Wars was played with brass instruments and was loud and imposing, but someone who had never heard it before going off that description is unlikely to correctly recreate, even with a more detailed description. So it's just a guess.
Yup. Marriage was purely a politics thing. People didn't marry out of love, but to secure good relations with other politicisns (senators, kings etc.). Caesar married his daughter off to Pompeius to form an alliance with him and Octavian tried the same with his daughter, but failed because she was a rebel. Divorce was a common practice whenever it was necessary to reach the next level in politics. Divorce only became a bad thing after the Christians took over in late antiquity.
Hey, you know what.... You should make a video about Begum Rokeya cause she established Muslim girls education in the Indian subcontinent. Because she is my role model as because of her, I am able to get a good education. BTW I'm very happy for the snake in the whole series.
If his statues are anything to go by, which admittedly aren't always reliable but they didn't have photos back then so it's what we have, he wasn't bad looking
@@crzylkfx his statues were propaganda pieces. They staid the same for all is reign, never aging, and do not fit the descriptions we have of him from people who met him
You can look up what scientists and CGI artist believed him to have looked like, also if your family comes from anywhere near the territory of the Roman Empire, Augustus is also your ancestor.
So, Caesarion "disappeared" after Octavian conquered Egypt - most historians think Octavian just killed him, but some think he may have escaped. Several decades after this story, the Bible makes mention of "The Egyptian", a mysterious figure who led the Jews in a rebellion against Rome (Acts 21:38). Josephus also makes mention of The Egyptian. My question is - is it possible that "They Egyptian" may have been Caesarion?
Yes, and simping foreign royalty at that. The East may have been the richer part of the territory Rome had hegemony over, but Anthony ceding the center of Roman politics to Octavian was a blunder.
Cleopatra fleeing the battle without engaging didn't fit your heroine narrative? One theory states that Antony could have had a victory if not for Cleopatra's retreat. Others are not so sure.
You guys do a really good job of showcasing how truly different the Roman empire would've been if the Cleopatra and Antony won the civil war. One with a fusion of Roman and Hellenistic tendencies.
@@mjbull5156 I heard Fate has very loose qualifications for Assassin class so it won't be just 50 shades of Hassan. Also her bro drowned in the Nile... Sister, yeah. That was assasination. Other bro iunno I don't think they found any of their mumnies?
Snake: At last my time has come.
Kept us waiting, huh
Aspen - "Well, it'ssssss about damned time!"
Snek*
She stept on snek
Wait...
Anthony Just chilling with Cleopatra
Octavian: YOU SIMP
He chose pussy over Rome. Massive SIMP
*M A R C V S S I M P V S A N T O N I V S*
*S I M P*
Read the letter Tony sent him in it's original curse filled from.
But Marc Anthony was a simp Augustus really wasn't wrong about that I mean Anthony literally prioritized his relationship with Cleopatra above Rome
"The time has come, execute the order 66"
Snake: "yes, my lord"
.Augustus
*Snek
Order ssssixty ssssixss
Order cds
Aspen: Yes...YES. UNLIMITED POWER!!!
Fun fact: Cleopatra's daughter, Cleopatra Selene, was later on married off to Juba II of Mauretania, a Roman client king, and they went on to house many Ptolemaic people who had left Egypt. Their son was named Ptolemy of Mauretania.
Didnt Juba 2 fight against caesar in the roman civil war? Kinda surprised he retained power after being on the wrong side of the war.
@Super Universe likely everybody in Europe
@Super Universe yeah I mean we are probably related to everybody who lifted 2000 years ago
@@ATMOSK1234 That was his father, Juba I of Numidia, who defeated Gaius Scribonius Curio at the Battle of Bagradas in 49 BCE. Later on, when Caesar was finished with Pompey, he came back to Africa and invaded Numidia with his ally, Bocchus I of Mauretania, defeating Juba I and causing him to die in 46 BCE. His son Juba II was only an infant at the time, and he was brought to Rome and given a Roman education. Later on, after Augustus took over, he married Cleopatra Selene to Juba II, and gave them back Numidia in 30 BCE, and then transferred them to Mauretania in 25 BCE.
@@gearlordgeneration6673 Nowhere close - a lot of people who lived 2000 years ago didn't have kids at all. (Childhood mortality rate being the most prominent reason. Some cultures avoided giving names to those under five because of how high the infant mortality rate was.) Additionally it's only been a little more than 500 years since the Colombian exchange. Everyone today of European descent is related to every European from 2000 years ago that has living descendants at all but not everyone has an Asian ancestor or an Aborigine ancestor.
Lies: Rather than being booed by the crowd and crying, Arsinoe (Cleopatra's sister) won the Roman crowd over during Ceasar's triumph, so when it was time for her execution they all shouted at Ceasar to let her live, which he did. Cleopatra was unhappy with that, since she still considered Arsinoe a rival, and had Marc Antony execute her later.
Yeah, it's bizarre they tried to portray her sister as a victim of Rome's militaristic culture when they themselves said Cleopatra had her killed like last episode or something.
Yeah, but there is a good deal that would not fit into the narrative here. Probably best if they left those pieces out.
This is exactly what I was going to say
Also "Historia Civilis" made a video about Ceasar's Triumphs, explaining what happend to Arsinoe
th-cam.com/video/fD-R35DSSZY/w-d-xo.html
They also forgot to mention that Cleopatra tried to seduce Octavian like she had done with Anthony and Caesar, but this time it didn't work. Probably wouldn't fit their narrative either that the strong independent woman would try and fail at something.
I like your funny words magic man
Cleopatra: I have managed to stabilise Egypt, subdue Roman generals and ensured my bloodline shall rule for all eternity
Octavian: Bet
Though, Octavian's dynasty won't live to see the Fall of the Roman Empire 475 AD.
Octavian yhea but I've got Agrippa...
@@kamanashiskar9203 yeah but Cleopatra's dynasty wouldn't live to see the end of Octavian's life
@@kamanashiskar9203, more like 1453.
@@twoscarabsintheswarm9055 lmao true
Legends say that Octavian's general Marcus Vipsanius Agrippa trained the Roman Navy for the fight at Actium via a huge lake he dug in a single night with nothing but a shovel and a bucket.
Unfortunately we don’t have confirmation of this totes accurate hypothesis
Correction, the fleet was made and trained to fight against the fleet of Sextus Pompey
Never thought I'd see a Shadow of Rome reference here.
Minor correction, it was a shovel, a bucket, and a MISSION!
He just hired Ukrainian workers who dug out the Black Sea as russian media claims. A lake was nuthin.
Should be noted that the idea of "African Queen seducing Roman generals" became a trope in Rome due to the legend of Aeneas and Dido
The Aenied, about this, were written by Virgil around the same time, or just after. comissioned by Octavian.
And Rome had to wait so many centuries for Aurelian to lift Dido's curse.
@@kingkefa7130 I see you aware of the true and unbiased history of Roman.
@@napoleoniv2646 Certainly. I'm a big fan of the series that taught me how
Caesar was Cleopatra's puppet and how she epic style dunked on him, Anthony and Octavian.
Cleopatra was only African in behaviour. She is Greek genetically.
The Lies episode for this is going to be longer than the rest of the series 😅
I'm not a very good historian but I've seen like, 2 huge mistakes
@@twoscarabsintheswarm9055 which ones?
@@Rakonax yeah I also need help haha
@@twoscarabsintheswarm9055 I'm interested too. I noticed how EC basically bent the whole history to make the world completely surround Cleopatra. I wanna know what else I missed!
@@Rakonax I saw the big mistakes (realised they're not huge but still not small) of saying that Cleopatra "dunked" on Caesar, Antony and Octavian. I infact, belive that Octavian dunked on her and she was neither dunked on or dunked on Caesar and Antony. And next is the fact that they implied Cleopatra liked her sister, who she wanted to kill and that they ignored that from a few accounts, Cleopatra's sister won over the people during Caesars triumph (the people started as booing, but soon turned to cheers for her as someone said) and when Caesar was about to kill Her, he heard her popularity and let her go
What will poor Octavian do without his triumph after annexing all of Egypt into his new empire?
Poor Octavian, all he got was control over the Mediterranean, with rich Egypt + becoming Emperor :,(, Cleo really dunked on him
I mean, to these people triumphs were absolutely everything
@@twoscarabsintheswarm9055 He still had a triumph, just had an effigy of Cleo instead of herself.
I would like to remind the court that as far as I know cleopatra sister was sent to Rome with cleopatra blessing and she was quite crossed when Caesar gave into the crowd demands and didn't strangle her
She wasn't the last pharaoh of Egypt. Her son ceaserion actually ruled for a few weeks before dying himself by assassins.
Well the last great pharo then
Not really ruled, more like was de jure ruler of a regime that had fallen. Like Louis XVII of France or the current head of the House of Romanov.
So, he went out like a Ptolomey?
Lies: No mention at all in this series of Octavian's general, best friend, and all-round badass Marcus Vipsanius Agrippa!
Blue from Overlysarcastic Productions would like to know your location
Still he's not wrong for all of Octavian's many abilities he was not much of a military mind without Agrippa the story of Cleopatra could have been very different
@@starkey0 Still, this is Cleopatra's story, not Octavian's. I'm sure he'll get mentioned in Lies, but if you get bogged down with asides in the main series you end up ruining the flow something harsh.
Agrippa these BALLS
Agrippa these BALLS
"For reasons unknown..."
Oh you mean like a bunch of captains defecting and sabotaging their fleet so the Roman's pulled up and burnt the the entire flotilla in minutes?
And that son who was declared the king of kings would later become known as the last pharaoh of Ancient Egypt. Wow
You are Avery-where
yep! Good ol Ceasrion, i kinda feel bad for the guy, tbh
Do you spend all day on TH-cam?
@@MirzaAhmed89 Facts
You're right, sounds a lot like that Percy Shelly poem, Ozymandias.
You forgot to mention that Cleopatra herself wanted her sister dead
No they mentioned her assassination in a previous episode.
Not to mention that Arsinoe (Cleopatra's sister) was actually spared by the crowds of Rome that she paraded through. She was not saved by Caesar's mercy, she was saved by Caesar having to listen the crowd's demands.
@@ngjiasheng1 Caesar enjoyed making shows of mercy and was a populist. I doubt that really went against what he intended to do.
@@mjbull5156 the crowd took pity on Arsinoe and Ceaser complied.
@@mjbull5156 this is true but caesar also loved his thriumps and it was only when the crowd showed displeasure that he would show mercy. He was a populist because it was what served him better. Had the crowd not intervene he would have likely had her strangled, same for the numedian boy king on the following thriumps. Caesar liked to spare Roman generals and soldiers those who were not were at the mercy of what was more useful to Caesar
I guess she dunked on Octavian by.... triumph blue balling him? Eh, seems kinda like a small thing compared to controlling all of the Mediterranean and the prosperous Egypt and oh yeah, just this small thing.... becoming the first Roman emperor, no biggie
Cleopatra was one of the most expensive Hollywood movies when it was made. Octavian isn't even an anime episode, so she's WAY more famous after death.
Her whole family dying, killing herself, being the last of her line, and her country getting annexed into Rome? Doesn't matter, prevented her old lover's adopted son from having a triumph!
Tbh I haven’t hated this series but I have hated how they suggest that she did me on the best roman leader of the time by having a child with the greatest roman ever and having more kids with another then dying to this firsts adopted son just seems very revisionist cause she defo didn’t dunk on Octavian at all I am biased tho absolutely love ceases and Octavian in their own respects
@@spiko1755 tbh I think that octavian dunked on them all, the infamous Julius ceasar had tried to get absolute power in rome and got assassinated, cleopatra and Anthony had control over the east but both killed themselves after losing the war. Octavian in the other hand united the Mediterranean under his control and had all of the power in rome becoming the first roman emperor
He marched her children through the streets like slaves. Octavian dunked so hard on Cleopatra
The amount of inaccuracies in these videos is gonna make the lies episode into a documentary
What inaccuracies were there?
@@stephenking9114 oh a lot here’s some examples:
Caesarian was actual a joke name, his real name was Ptolemy
Her Sister Arsinoe was never screamed at or humiliated, she was screamed for by the citizens to spare her life.
Cleopatra wasn’t the only reason for Caesar’s Murder
Cleopatra was never killed by a snake those HURT, she had a bunch of painless poisons for that. The whole “snake death” thing was revision by Plutarch
@@a.h.tvideomapping4293 Thanks. It is interesting to hear about. What are your opinions on Cleopatra
@@stephenking9114 she was a good,smart and arguably the only Ptolemaic ruler that actually did her job. She isn’t the perfect victim like EC portrays here
@@a.h.tvideomapping4293no Agrippa (Octavian’s good friend and expert military mind)
Here's something you forgot to mention about the naval battle: One of Antony's generals actually defected to Octavian's side, and brought Antony and Cleopatra's battle plan with him. So Octavian was able to anticipate basically every single move Antony and Cleopatra were going to make. The major tide turner was when Octavian's forces started setting Antony's portion of the fleet on FIRE. Seeing that portion of the fleet burning was what made Cleopatra realize they had been had by Octavian, and she retreated.
I mean she still died so I’m not sure that would be considered dunking on Octavian.
She denied him the opportunity to humiliate her and parade her as a prisoner of war. Given her circumstances, it was probably as much as she could do.
Her death pretty much removed the last resistance for Augustus’s rise to power, so I’d say it’s kinda an opposite move
She dunked on Octavian by having her kingdom be annexed into Rome. Epic win.
She had lost, but she didn't let Octavian humiliate her. Suicide in that case is dying with style, rather than being executed. And I guess she didn't care about his rise to power in Rome, Egypt had already lost.
It's a matter of degrees and perspective.
The Romans accepted any win they got, but showing off the looser in public? Prooving the win to everyone? That's a big bonus.
Wikipedia: "Vercingetorix was imprisoned in the Tullianum in Rome for almost six years before being publicly displayed in the first of Caesar's four triumphs in 46 BC."
That's the length they went for the spectacle and with the usual execution after the triumph everyone could sleep soundly, knowing that this enemy of Rome was dead.
Cleopatra: Wait, wasn't I supposed to "dunk on" you?
Octavian: Sorry doll, this ain't Germany.
She got rolled by the outstanding player at the game of thrones of that generation in the Mediterranean Basin.
Should have been obvious from the start: One of them died via snake-bite, the other rebranded himself as a living god and started a new golden age for the empire
Poor Octavian. He just used Cleopatra to kill his main rival and take over her country and she had to kill herself instead of being in his triumph. She really dunked on him hard, almost as hard as Brutus did.
@blablabla Do you understand the concept of sarcasm?
@@kaz296 he probably doesn't
Octavian may be the smoothest man on the planet. This legend turned a civil war into "rescue mission" and solidified his power. What kind of political wizardry is this.
This series is a bit of an oddball. Cleopatra played second fiddle in this episode on roman politics. If the height of her conflict has her taking a backseat to Antony I'd say the focus of this episode was off. An already powerful nation with a well connected legitimate ruler with clear line of succession in a stable dynasty doesn't need Antony, so how did Cleopatra sell this to her allies, and why did they join her?
Because Rome was still stronger and with Anthony at her side her dynasty could gain the whole Mediterranean or at leeast the eastern half. (If it worked though the whole thing would go through hella civil wars tho)
Egypt was not a powerful nation at this time in history it was militarily weak and politically overshadowed by Rome. Antony was her clear best bet to maintain and even grow Egyptian influence within that Roman sphere and it almost worked. If Actium had played out differently who knows what could have happened.
Well, the thing is her allies may have not joined her after all if that naval battle is any indication.
They totally needed Antony. Egypt was powerful, but not nearly powerful enough to beat Rome.
Rome owned Egypt and allowed it to exist. Antony was utterly irreplaceable because this was always a political conflict, not military one. Antony was needed as leader of Rome, or at least as a strong supporter on the inside. Victories purpose would be just to make war too uncomfortable, while having a roman man lead the royal family and roman man take the leadership position after him. It was always about giving Rome an easy option, but things went wrong and it was not seen as acceptable.
Egypt may have been powerful, but not powerful enough to take on Rome all by itself. At this point, the Roman economy was dependent on importing grain from Egypt, so there is just no way Rome would have left Egypt alone. Especially as Rome had gotten used to receiving tribute from Egypt in exchange for protection during the reign of Cleopatra's father.
Giving Roman land is a big no no. Imperator Augustus !
Ave Imperator!!!!
Feh. My heart died with Brutus. To Tartarus with Caesar, Antony, and Octavian, who killed the dream of Rome with their greed.
Yeah, giving away back then was simply a default no-no. Which the Ancient City here states: socialsciences.mcmaster.ca/econ/ugcm/3ll3/fustel/AncientCity.pdf
@@roguishpaladin Hahahahahahaahaha. Octavian didnt kill the republic, and certainly he didnt killed the roman dream. he killed the patrician Dream btw, it was a dream in wich the corruption was rampant and the rich become richer at expense of the citizens. Ave Imperator, smasher of corruption and son of a God.
You all loved him (Caesar) once, not without cause.
-Mark Anthony
@@roguishpaladin The “Liberators” and Republic itself was so corrupt people would rather have a king then things to continue. Your honestly ignorant if you simp for Brutus
Octavian did nothing wrong.
Lol, you sound like his personal lawyer
*cuts to Octavian slamming Anthony's head over and over before cutting him down*
Long live the true empire, death to Antony's Rome! Brought to you by the Octavian Gang
That Augustus to you
FINALLY A CAUSE I CAN GET BEHIND
No mention of the betrayel of Marcus Antonius' general giving agrippa the fleet's battleplans, likely due to Cleopatra joining the battle, or her plan to have the fleet in defence, just being sitting ducks for Agrippa.
Correction: Death by danger noodle
If it’s what Stalin said.. no objection
Didn’t you get poisoned in 1953?
Stalin’s death, death by ill wish
I was going for a character joke
Stalin
Guess what
No more Soviet Union
Egyptian Cobra: MY TIME HAS COME. I WAS CHOSEN BY HEAVEN
SAY MY NAME WHEN YOU PRAY
@@woah12218 *attempts a futile resistance* TO THE SKIES SEE CAROLUS RISE!
@@dailydoseofneurodiversity6205 WITH MY LORD AND MY PROTECTOR
@@woah12218 (there's no and) MAKE THEM BOW TO MY WILL
@@woah12218 TO THE SKIES SEE ASPEN THE VIPER'S RISE (Joey should be a character in a future series btw)
5:36 Here comes 'Agrippa with the chair, over Antony's head.
Octavian - Hay Cleo and Anthony you met Agrippa..... Oh I see from the screaming, drowning men and broken ships that you have.
The MVP of the civil war. Heck, Augustus didn't even fight in the battles. Agrippa did, from building the fleet that would beat Sextus pompey, to wiping out Anthony- no Cleopatra's (that eastern witch) forces.😢
9:35
The snake's so happy to finally get his big scene!
9:42
Aww, he's kinda cute!
You guys should do a series on Empress Dowager Cixi. She was a really interesting historical figure.
“Declaring war on all the great powers is an amazing idea guys, trust me”
One of my favourite historical women.
Ikr
"Ending the Hundred Days' Reform is a great idea"
Arguably her successor Puyi is more interesting, but his life doesn’t make a good TH-cam series
I love Octavian, what a legend
Local man destroys god empress of thots
@chico Better dead than simp
Why is Cleopatra so unpopular. I wouldn't call her a good person, but as far as historical leaders go, she seems pretty average in terms of wickedness.
@@stephenking9114 Romans aren't big with female leaders.
@@stephenking9114 Its not that she is unpopular, but these videos are straight up simping for her. Like, implying that she had control of everything in the world at her time including Julius Caesar it's too much. She wasn't the piece in history this video want you to think, although she was important too.
In which we learn the origin story of Cleopatra’s Noble Phantasm
Does she qualify for Assassin over... Assassinating herself or what? Most vague class ever!
"why was I summoned as an assassin?" says the woman who murdered most of her rivals xD
@@HipFire1 She at least made sure her assassinations were quick and clean, not going over agonizing tortures.
3:45 Imagine if Rome adopted a Middle Eastern God, yeah as if that VatiCan happen...
Because Romans absolutely had a problem with Egyptian gods...
"So, what is for dessert today, mylady?"
"I take the asp and figs special. I heard it is to die for!"
Cleopatra and Antony when they see a Roman fleet:
Aight ima head out
I love this channel, i have covered all its episodes within a 2-3 weeks. I found this channel recently.
Snake: I have waited for 4 no 5000 years for this
Finally, I've been waiting for this for so long.
2:01 Just like Dovahhatty said
EASTERN WITCH
@@lucasbeck1391 thank gods Augustus was blessed by the senate
VILE TEMPTRESS, POWERED BY O MIGHTY CAESARS HOLY SEED
@@lucasbeck1391, and reincarnation of Dido.
That rescue frames was some of the best animation I'd seen on this channel!
In this episode it is revealed that Cleopatra was the one dunked on by Octavian not the other way around. The best part is she wasnt even the last. The tribes of the Alps who even caesar couldn't conquer and the tribes of northern spain that had thrown back several attempts by rome to conquer them were also dunked on by Octavian.
One thing I don't understand, and maybe it will be covered next episode: how did Cleopatra's suicide scheme make it into history. After all, history is written by the victors, and Octavian was *certainly* the victor. Having a record of the war is one thing, especially when it includes things like "Mark Antony is so lovestruck that he abandoned his forces during the middle of a key battle because his girlfriend did" and "Mark Antony can't even commit suicide properly, the numpty." I'm not sure where "We managed to capture Cleopatra and we were totally going to do the usual parade/execution thing when we got back to Rome, but she did a clever thing and managed to commit suicide in quite possibly the most dramatic way possible just to deny me my victory parade"
Yes, Octavian himself isn't writing the histories down, but given this shows up in the Roman histories, it has to have come from him or the handful of soldiers who knew about it - a narrative easily controlled. If it were some fringe story that only showed up in a relative handful of records, it'd make sense, but this makes it into Shakespeare's play on the subject, so it's hardly fringe. Shakespeare was relatively well versed in history, but his time period isn't exactly known for deeply insightful historical analysis based on comparative accounts of relevant sources, so much as just realizing that maybe reading books written by Romans and Greeks is a good idea.
Imagine going to see a boxing match and then the announcement guy starts teaching history
I just love this video. Great story of long past people it made me so invested.
Cleopatra is shown here with lot of bias as if she was very concerned for her sister
Many writing issues in this series
I think Cleopatra's concern was not to be turned into a trophy like her sister. Considering she was Caesar's mistress at the time of his triumph, and her sister was considered her enemy.
They literally described how she engineered her sister's downfall and ordered her to be killed in previous chapter.
0:08 I love how the animation is always great and funny!
Extra Credit for the last 4 episodes: "Cleopatra was a political genius who manipulated the most talented and famous people of the age! YASS QUEEN!"
Extra Credit Now: "And so the senate unfairly called Cleopatra a mean manipulator and Octavian painted her as a bad person. :((((("
I love the way you guys explain things. It helps a lot when I'm studying. Keep on being dope!
"Not to be remembered as a concuered woman". Sure thing yeah, but wasn't egypt completely integrated as a roman province, leaving it remembered as a conquered state?
Actuallly not, Egypt was not a conquered province but the personal domain of the Emperor, who was also Pharaoh.
Octavian really went to Mark Anthony and said BROS BEFORE HOES 💀
I'm in awe of Cleopatra. She's become insanely fascinating to me once it dawned on me that she was a REAL person, not just some character in stories we grew up learning in school. Love or hate her, you cannot deny that she was incredible.
she wasn't incredible though. If not for her relationships with people who can actually lay the claim to being incredible she would have been forgotten. She was short sighted and personally made decision that brought an end to her dynasty.
No "snek" comments?? Such restraint, I'm proud.
The snake bite story has it's detractors. Given that snakes would be too big to smuggle and generally the death from the poison isn't that fast. So it seems unlikely in the short time before the note was received and troops were sent she and her two maid servants would be bitten and died.
Hope this will be thoroughly discussed in lies.
As you can clearly see in the video Cleopatra is D U N K I N G on Octavian
Fox's Cleopatra (no, not Foxxy Cleopatra) made in 1963 was the most expensive film made when it was released. 20th Century Fox almost went bankrupt, but the film was successful enough to make a profit.
Imagine if a company as influential as 20th Century Fox was desperate enough to sell itself? :|
Yeah, also having films more than 2 hours are almost non-existent.
Plus in those days, release of epic movies are considered a grand event.
India still does it, but little-to-mixed results as of now.
I remember watching Ben-Hur one time (have DVD's of old movies and it lasted almost entire afternoon).
Liz Taylor and Richard Burton romance on screen and in reality was worth it! They also reused the expensive decorations for a bunch of stuff like Caligula.
The only film to top a year's grossing charts and STILL make a loss.
As always I loved it. I want to point out that the outfit the great artist made for the Roman forces was that of the Hastati and not that of the heavy Legionnaires which were more as the infantry. Where the Hastati were a light range unit. Sorry I love Rome too much to not make this point. Sorry.
Still waiting on that "dunking" Cleopatra pulls on Augustus that was mentioned in the first episode
idk how but when i saw egypt loos i just heard in my head "at attium! in greece! the navy of our imperator Octavian Caesar! under the command of marcus augustus agripa! has won a desicive victory over queen cleopatra and her slave mark anthony! the egyptian fleet has been destroyed!" that tribute to rome has been engrained into my mind
The vanquisher of eastern witches has arrived! Long live the eternal city and long live Octavian.
He found it a city of brick and left it a city of marble.
Ave Roma
I wish you guys uploaded more. I went on a huge binge and ran out of videos to watch
roman soldier: “hey this basket sounds a little strange”
Other Roman soldier: “wdym?”
Roman soldier: “well I mean just listen”
*hissing noises from basket*
Other Roman soldier: eh it’s probably just the figs”
Roman soldier: “I don’t think figs hiss”
Other Roman soldier: “WELL DO ELEPHANTS SOUND LIKE TRUMPETS?!?!”
Roman soldier: “wait what is elephant?”
3:48-
Well, it would be ironic later on.
Not just Christians, just that they later worship Sol Invictus by Elagabalus and later Aurelian, both of whom are by technicality non-Romans (Cathago-Syrians for former and Illyrians for latter).
I fucking love Augustus.
@alida flus Yeah, I was so confused why he wasn't even namedropped during the Actium section.
Now I imagine a Punch-Out fight, Octavian being the player character and Cleopatra as the enemy.
Cleopatra gets her ass kicked faster than Glass Joe.
Nah, the actual fight would be Agrippa being the fighter 1 v 2-ing Anthony and Cleopatra, while octavian's in the back giving advice
@@Memelord1117 Octavian being in the Doc Louis role instead is still cool tbh.
I'm guessing the "Lies" episode will elaborate on the asp story; my understanding is that the nature of Cleopatra VII's death is disputed.
Thank you. Asp or Egyptian cobra bite is a pretty grisly way to go, and victims can survive several hours after being bitten. Also these are large snakes, so that would have had to have been some basket. These stories come to us from Roman historians, who were all careful to disclaim that they didn't know the snake story was true for certain. Many modern historians think it's more likely she took poison, possibly by pricking herself with a poisoned pin.
It's also possible that Octavian deliberately allowed her suicide to avoid the iffy questions of displaying in his triumph someone his adoptive father had so honored, or risking her garnering sympathy in said triumph as her sister had.
Highly, considering all the sources we have come from Octavian, and this whole "she got bit by a snek and died in gentle repose minutes later" thing is totally not the way snake venom works. Plus the "concealed in a basket" idea doesn't hold much water since the typical size of an adult Egyptian cobra is about two *yards* long
@@annasfischer would ancient Egyptians have access to poisons so deadly that just a pin-prick would kill in minutes?
@@iapetusmccool the ptolemaic courts was, pardon the pun, a snake pit, and poisonings were fairly common. Also we have a papyrus indicating Cleopatra tested poisons on condemned criminals. If anybody knew how, she did. It's also possible she drank poison.
Cleopatra didn't just turn around and left Anthony to fend for himself at sea. Rather, as she tried to circle around and attack the Romans from the sides, the weather changed and forced her to return to Egypt or lose her entire fleet.
No mention of Agrippa ?
@@kingkefa7130 Agrippa was unmentioned, but he will never be forgotten.
Handsome Monkey King: "Did somebody say... immortality?"
Out of curiosity, why does all the "Egyptian" music I hear sound so consistent? Do we have well-documented instruments, musical styles, etc. Or is the "Egyptian sound" just a widespread modern invention?
I would like to know as well, I really love that mysterious and exotic (and very Egyptian) music.
If I remember right we know what kind of instruments they used (and what they sounded like), and have written descriptions of what the music sounded like, but they didn't have a system for recording music like we have today with sheet music. So we have some vague idea of what music at the time sounded like, but have no idea what it actually sounded like. So we might have some record for example saying that the music at a known event was played with flutes and that it was slow and somber, or maybe fast and chaotic, but that's all we really know. Or as another example I could say that the Imperial March from Star Wars was played with brass instruments and was loud and imposing, but someone who had never heard it before going off that description is unlikely to correctly recreate, even with a more detailed description. So it's just a guess.
This makes history actually fun and enjoyable. You should be everyone's history teacher.
9:43 that snake is happy
In modern day terms, an asp is a viper. But historically, people used asp to refer to the Egyptian Cobra
Divorce was a thing back then? I hope this is explained further in the Lies episode.
Divorce was a very common and informal thing in Rome. Even Octavian got divorced. Twice.
Yup. Marriage was purely a politics thing. People didn't marry out of love, but to secure good relations with other politicisns (senators, kings etc.). Caesar married his daughter off to Pompeius to form an alliance with him and Octavian tried the same with his daughter, but failed because she was a rebel.
Divorce was a common practice whenever it was necessary to reach the next level in politics.
Divorce only became a bad thing after the Christians took over in late antiquity.
Goodness Octavian, would you just _look_ at the time? Why, I do declare IT'S SNAKE O'CLOCK!
Hey, you know what....
You should make a video about Begum Rokeya cause she established Muslim girls education in the Indian subcontinent. Because she is my role model as because of her, I am able to get a good education. BTW I'm very happy for the snake in the whole series.
Soldier: drats, I knew we should've opened that basket sent to our mortal enemy, just to make sure it really contained only figs.
Tbh i always imagine seeing Octavian as that handsome dude in HBO Rome
If his statues are anything to go by, which admittedly aren't always reliable but they didn't have photos back then so it's what we have, he wasn't bad looking
I'm too used to his appearance in unbiased history.
From what i read in articles about him he was rather plain and unimpressive looking.
@@crzylkfx his statues were propaganda pieces. They staid the same for all is reign, never aging, and do not fit the descriptions we have of him from people who met him
You can look up what scientists and CGI artist believed him to have looked like, also if your family comes from anywhere near the territory of the Roman Empire, Augustus is also your ancestor.
So, Caesarion "disappeared" after Octavian conquered Egypt - most historians think Octavian just killed him, but some think he may have escaped. Several decades after this story, the Bible makes mention of "The Egyptian", a mysterious figure who led the Jews in a rebellion against Rome (Acts 21:38). Josephus also makes mention of The Egyptian. My question is - is it possible that "They Egyptian" may have been Caesarion?
So octavian said basically said he was a simp
Octavian said he himself was a simp, or that Anthony was a simp?
Yes, and simping foreign royalty at that. The East may have been the richer part of the territory Rome had hegemony over, but Anthony ceding the center of Roman politics to Octavian was a blunder.
@@mjbull5156 Anthony was never good at politics, Caesar even preferred Lepidus to Anthony because Lepidus was actually competent.
This part upsetted me when I read book about her back in Elementary School 😔
Hey I think is time for extra history Frederick the great,
The lies for that one will be quite long
Yay! A new video Of Cleopatra!
Cleopatra fleeing the battle without engaging didn't fit your heroine narrative? One theory states that Antony could have had a victory if not for Cleopatra's retreat. Others are not so sure.
You know it's a special sin when you dont mention Agrippa during the Octavian-Anthonian Civil war.
So I assume it’s these two prats that gave us Shakespeare plays...
Nah, Shakespeare wrote another play about Antony and Cleopatra
5:08 to 5:43 - My God, I didn't remember of a visual joke in EH that I laughed so hard, hahahahaha!
Cleopatra never fought at the battle but held out on the outskirts of the battle
You guys do a really good job of showcasing how truly different the Roman empire would've been if the Cleopatra and Antony won the civil war. One with a fusion of Roman and Hellenistic tendencies.
Who's with Octavian in that one?
Ave Augustus
Ave Imperator Caesar Divi Filius Augustus
The fight announcer bit was fantastic. Thank you so much for doing that, EC.
Ah, yes, the Gibs of Alexandria.
Ave Augustus! Finally, that Eastern witch has been put down!
A grand finale to the reign of the queen of the Nile.
"Fall"
Cool! We are also falling... in fall...
So... Can anyone explain her qualifying for Assassin class with cobra based Noble Phantasm despite not assassinating anyone but herself?
What, her husband/brothers do not count?
Though, I suppose she did not do them in herself.
@@mjbull5156 I heard Fate has very loose qualifications for Assassin class so it won't be just 50 shades of Hassan. Also her bro drowned in the Nile... Sister, yeah. That was assasination. Other bro iunno I don't think they found any of their mumnies?
One of my favorite series
I like how the thumbnail says Snek 🐍
it does because thumbnail designers are tired
cleopatra vii: guards let me grief my husband
snake: hold my beer