What is the Mercedes M119 engine and how was it developed? HD 1080p
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 2 ม.ค. 2023
- What is the Mercedes M119 engine and how was it developed?
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If you ever followed Tim LaTobe's M119 custom engine build for his W126 SEC track car. He built his own custom intake manifold using the cut-down base plate of the factory one with c/f i/runners leading from a larger plenum above the intake and not in the valley. Larger T/body fed by over the radiator rammed air intake. original cams were re-profiled for more lift & duration, custom exhaust, block bored out to 100mm cyllinders with forged pistons, M117 crank, dry sump, Modern ECU and dyno tuned using rear hub direct bolt dyno. Engine achieved near 700hp ATcrank n/a which was pretty stout. So the moral of the story is still the intake manifold/plenum & cams are the key to unlocking the true potential of these amazing engines
119.960 is the best engine Mercedes ever made.
As the owner of a 1984 500SEL W126 with an M117 engine and a 1990 500SL R129 with an M119.060 engine, black over palomino, with an original AMG Type 1 Body Kit, this video scratched all my itches! I noticed the many similarities as I learned about and worked on the 2 engines. I just assumed that how all engine development worked - the later evolving from the earlier.
Anyway, this was a great video and I am looking to absorb everything I can about AMG - especially pre-merger, so please bring it on!
M119 is such an underrated engine across the automotive world
I love the sound of the 119
Love the grunt of the M119 in my S500. Thanks for this vid.
Happy New Year Pierre! Thank you so much for such an insightful video of the M119 engine. I own a 1996 S 500 and a 1998 CL 500 with 119.980 engines and love them both. They are powerful, smooth as silk and have been unbelievable reliable and easy to maintain. I bought early last year a 2017 S 500 with the direct injection M278 engine and although is insanely powerful and fast because of the bi-turbo set up, there is clearly no other advantage against the M119. I would deeply appreciate if in the near future you'll make more videos about the W140, which I know you were not fond of at the beginning, but I think they are now proving to be an exceptionally worthy Mercedes classic, more so when they have been properly maintained and cared for.
Great information!
The very very first three prototypes of the M120.980 had a modified KE3 installed and they were installed in three W126’s in 1987/88. Can’t remember which transmission and differential they used in this setup.
We called those three Earlkönige.
Just food for thought
👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
Funny you mention that as they basically grabbed 2 m104.980s and joined them together with the 6.0 liters and cis injection. Plus they share parts with each other in the production versions! Bmw unveiled their v12 a few years prior to mercedes introducing theirs and they definitely panicked when the 560 was the best they had vs a v12 salon. But (friend has both a 750li and a 560 sel) the 560 is definitely faster still!
I purchased my first Mercedes in 1995. Was a 93 400E with only 30,000 miles. Loved that car, was kind of too heavy to be a true sport sedan but the engine was dead smooth, as in you didn't even know it was running, from idle to 6,000 RPM. Used to run it on the track at Willow Springs with the Porsche Owners Club. Burned up a few sets of brake pads and tires but was still running perfectly at 185,000 miles when it was sold. In 2004, my girl friend had a 98 SL500. Nothing better then cruising down PCH with the top off. I believe the M119 engine was one of the finest production V8's ever. Some may argue that the all aluminum construction was not durable but that was only true if the engine was abused, over heated or poor lubricants were used. I always used Amsoil products and still do, never have had a failure of an internal drive train part.
Terrific history! Looking forward to seeing more AMG merger content!
I love the M119, I had it in a 400E. One thing I don't think was mentioned was the M119.960 had the "tall deck", same as the M117. The LH and motronic versions got a shorter deck height, presumably to help with packaging on cars like the 124 and 140 (which never got the .960). I would love an early '90-'92 500SL, those seem to not carry a premium over the later cars with the 722.6 but I think people are missing out.
I just got into r129s being a w126 fanatic forever! And being a cis guy, I went with a 92 500sl. I’m glad I did though it needed a lot of work. That engine runs flawlessly and absolutely books it when you hit the throttle! I found it funny that the late m113 SLs got the bigger brakes but had almost 30hp less than the cis m119 powered SLs
I own a 1991 500SL with a M119 ,I don't drive it often mostly a summer fun car ,closest German engine feel and torque wise to a older American V8 imo . I do all my own work on my Benz's I must to say the learning curve on the M119 was steep but I enjoy a challenge and knew that when I bought it. She's a scary beast when you lay into it as you said ,I've taken her up to 100 mph and still pulling hard at that speed. I think one could easily bury the 160 speedo but not me .
I would think the M117 would feel closer to an American V8 with its 2 valves per cylinder.. but I guess you’re not familiar with it. No old American engines were really as advanced as the M119.
I have a 92 500sl and that engine is strong as heck! And I have a euro tuned m117 in my 560sel. The m117 feels more American than the m119 due to the lower revs and fat low end torque it has. The m119 will pull like a train on coke right up to its 6400rpm redline. Most American v8s of the day didn’t go past 5000 rpm and made less power. I had mine up to 148mph and it was still pulling hard when I let off. Easily a 155mph car all day
I owned a 97 W210 with a M119. Love that car and really loved that engine. Never gave me a problem. I did maintain it as per MB service instructions.
I've had exactly the same car for over a year now, 97 e420 with 230k km, doesn't burn or leak any oil and starts every time and is buttery smooth.
Didn't the w210 rot from rust after about 4 years ? I'm in MN so maybe it was more likely here.
Body has ugly spots of rust and like a hundred small rust bubbles, but frame is solid and no spot on the body is rotted through like you would get on say a 90s Subaru. Nothing a $15000 paint job couldn't fix on the w210 😄
You gotta be adamant with those 210s in the rust belt. I've found keeping the bodies clean every few days (LITERALLY BY HAND EVERY FEW DAYS) and a shot or two of Silicone spray in the nooks and crannies (for good measure) keeps them pretty rust free year after year even with hard winter use. Hello from NH. E300 Turbodiesel.
@@jzaroh2004 good to know. I have owned only w124s, w201s. Im not even sure I could find a w210 without rotting panels here now but maybe I'll look.
Great video Pierre. The content on AMG would be very interesting since the information that exists before the merger is very little. It's a pleasure to listen to you. Regards
Love the technical history stuff!😁
M119 is a Great Engine . I Have a on M120 and it is low mileage 45000 miles Great condition but a lot more complicated and experience.
Oh I got a sudden urge to drop M119 engine in a C126. It will be fantastic!
M119 in c124 would also be a good idea
Do it!! A friend did a cis m119 in a 560sel and it’s amazing. He just picked up a clean 91 sec shell and will repeat his success again with it. But put the 86 87 560 rear trailing arms and sway bar in it if it’s newer than those years. The later cars have a wimpier rear suspension and the m119 will absolutely make the rear end feel like dog spit
Visuals and sample parts would make this video better!
As usual, you left out some important information. The M119 isn’t simply an M117 with different heads. There are a number of differences on the bottom end. The M119 differed from the M117 in the following ways:
The engine block uses asbestos-free gaskets and has better oil flow
The cylinder head is now a 4-valve aluminium unit with dual overhead camshafts
The connecting rods are forged and enable cooling of the pistons with sprayed oil
The pistons are iron-coated cast aluminium
An improved vibration damper system is used
The aluminium oil pan has bolted-on oil baffles to prevent foaming of the engine oil
The intake camshaft timing is adjusted hydro-mechanically up to 20°:
0-2000 rpm - retarded for improved idle and cylinder scavenging
2000-4700 rpm - advanced for increased torque
4700+ rpm - retarded for improved volumetric efficiency
Man, you have knowledge of M119 Where is your shop?
Straight from wiki
@@Mercsixpointnine Exactly.
Great the same to you and your Family !!
We know you can go there - building performance M117 M119 motors :)
Those pre -mercedes times of AMG mercedes tuning versions, I my mind are best AMG cars. Hammer is THE AMG.
Sure, but they are so out of reach for an average human being it's not even funny. My 2004 E55 AMG felt perfectly Amg to me, especially for 7500 dollars that I paid for it. Fast, comfy, reliable and extremely fuel inefficient. Sound Very AMG to me
My friend I'm jonesing for that 4 cam AMG engine video. Are you still planning to release that and if so do you know when I'm trying to be as patient as possible but I still want to see that cuz I think with anyone has good information on it it'll be you
Hi Pierre!
Thx for this video. I have a question or in fact two about the M119. Can I ask you here or do you offer another channel with help n charge me. In that case how?..😊
Please do more amg contents and what engine will be a goo alternative for a g wagon engine swap for durability and strength
I'm *VERY FAMILIAR* with the M113. For some reason, my memory tells me that with age & mileage the M119 has problems with cracked and/or broken timing-chain guides. *Is this a matter of concern?*
Out of interest are there similarities between the M104 24V and M119 head technology?
There definitely is but the m104.980 is the basis for the m120.980 v12 engines. The m119 was absolutely inspired but what amg was doing with the m117 engines at the time. Look at a gen 1 w126 with a amg 5.7 in it. Note the header design and cam design. Then look at a euro 560, especially one with the 822 option code. The cast tri y manifolds are very similar to the custom amg units on the early cars, the cam is definitely inspired by amg’s work, and the enlarged intake valves on a 560 match the size increase done on the early 500 m117 motors. Hmmmmm sneaky Mercedes. Then the amg 6.0 dohc motors definitely have Mercedes the idea to modify the m117 into the 4cam m119 we have today.
Ensigning info Mr. Hedary
Hi Pierre , I have an very early production Euro spec 1989 R129 500SL with M119.960 22002593 engine and it has a stamp of E10:0 on the engine block and has factory option code 828 ( Non-KAT) is any unique or rare at all ?
How does the M119 engine compare with the amg's 5.4 L M113 engine
Very interesting and well told. What would my Euro 350SE be like with an M119.960 transplant???
Well a friend of mine did a m119 swap into his 560sel and the thing is noticeably faster than even my euro tuned m117 car was! But your a w116 chassis and I’d wonder how well the wide m119 would fit in there, then again a 6.9 did exist and that is a HUGE engine. Your car with a cis m119, gen 2 560 rear subframe and torque dampening rear suspension and the 722.3 4 speed auto box and gen 2 w126 upgraded brakes, car would be sweet and actually handle the power well with factory parts and a limited slip diff (stock 560 2.47 unit and axles)
If the M119.960 is similar to M117 bottom end, would it bolt-in an R107. Kinna plug and play since the fuel injection system are same or similar?
I looked into this for my 92 500sl but it’s a lot more involved than you think, the block needs minor machining to fit the 560 crankshaft and you’d be wise to install lighter forged rods matching m117 specs. The cis injection is pretty good at adapting but the bigger crank and longer stroke will hamper the cars ability to idle correctly as the computers still think it’s a 5.0 with a pretty square bore and stroke. To get the most out of it you’d need a lot of time and money and potentially some amg parts (ecu and ezl mainly) to get it right
Man why don’t you like the r129 that is the car that is getting me into Mercedes I also love the e55 as well but man the r129 is a beautiful car
Nice video but not let's get you away from that silly background and into the garage to show us these motors
Toyota shook Merc with the development of the ls400 platform and the legendary 1uzfe and tbh, the Japanese beat them this time around.
I actually want more technical content where I can learn random stuff.
M119 flat plane crank
it has a crossplane crankshaft.
@@meikelinde1623the cars that ran at Le Mans it 1989 I think where flat plan, and I believe Ilmor had a hand in developing this with Sauber for use in the c9?