@@shsatsunset7953 but banning the SHSAT together entirely is more detrimental to minority communities rather than helping them. Preventing a race from getting into these elite schools just because we’re being accepted in large masses compared to other races? That sounds like racism to me. Skill issue, I guess.
This is incredibly accurate. My family isn't exceptionally financially gifted. I worked my ass off to get into one of these Specialized high schools (currently attending Brooklyn tech as a freshman). The standard of academics these schools have set is astonishing to experience. Especially for families who can't afford private education, as it's an environment where peers who all worked extremely hard are placed in one facility with the sole unified purpose of gaining knowledge.
4:30 professor Glenn Loury has my full respect, in addition to other speakers. I have respect for his pride and dignity and acknowledgment for merit. This is what our society needs.
This is personal to me. I missed the cutoff to Bronx Science by one point, and was afforded the opportunity to attend the Discovery Program and then being admitted. Being exposed to the academic excellence of the specialized high schools changed my life. Both my children attended Thomas Jefferson High School of Science and Technology in Alexandria, VA. Now they want to do the same with a 'lottery' admission scheme and doing away with the test. The problem is always with the schools that don't prepare the children for the specialized high school tests. Tests have no bias. It's not perfect, but it's the least imperfect system we have.
You do realize you benefited from a program to desegregate these schools? A program PLF is suing to limit. You got in using the Discovery program. PLF's argument is that because you got beat by a FRACTION of a multiple-choice question means you're not ready for these schools.
@@shsatsunset7953 The video specifically cited the Discovery Program as a model to increase disadvantaged student enrollment. Not one dictated by race.
@@davidpan5176 NO ONE is suggesting race be used as a factor in admissions to these schools. Pacific Legal, the makers of this video is challenging the discovery program in court. They argue that the Discovery program is unfair. Please research before siding with them.
@@shsatsunset7953 NO ONE is challenging the Discovery program as it was historically administered. Pacific Legal is challenging the Mayor's monstrous manipulation of Discovery in order to racially balance these schools.
My father is a proud alumnus of Stuyvesant High where he graduated some time ago with honors. David Rem is right about the other schools in NYC fudging the scores and cooking the books: “You’re sending children into the world, and you just robbed them of an education.”
A State that enforces equality of OUTCOMES will necessarily do violence to equality of RIGHTS, while a State that enforces equality of RIGHTS will also get a significant measure of equality of OUTCOMES.
Regardless of race, a child's ENTIRE academic performance should NOT be reduced to a single 90 multiple-choice, math and English exam. Not while we have dozens of objective measures of that child's performance.
@@shsatsunset7953 You give me one, just one, admission system in the world, anywhere, that has produced 14 Nobel Prize science winners and legions of top scientists honored with all kinds of prizes, especially with the given demographics in income percentiles and non-native language speakers. One existence proof, anywhere. Otherwise, please do more homework before you come here to spout.
@@s.a.vanvleck45 The irony is that the SHSAT hasn't produced a single noble prize winner. Every one of those winners went to these schools before the SHSAT existed. Also, there are schools with higher "prize density", it's just that with over 15,000 students the SHSAT schools have more chances to win.
No irony, just splitting hairs. The SHSAT simply formalized what the SHSAT schools were doing before with their admissions test, but yes, the DOE has been dumbing down the SHSAT over the years, trying to play stealth equity. The SHSAT does need to be harder. As for that argument that 15,000 students give the SHSAT more chances to win, how about the entire NYC public school system, which the DOE claims has 1.1 million students? OK, that's K-12, while the SHSAT high schools are 9-12. So adjust that linearly; the City still has 41 times the students at the SHSAT high schools!
I can attest that there is some racial divide with SHSATs. I was from a predominate black neighborhood and school. I didn’t know nor was I told about the SHSAT. I loved math and science but no one in my family nor did my school mention anything about SHSAT. I took the test for Stuyvesant and fail…obviously because I wasn’t prepped for it….BECAUSE I DIDNT KNOW OF ITS EXISTENCE. And I hear from others in similar neighborhoods who also didn’t know
I take classes SHSAT on Monday and Friday, and study on Saturdays, but DAMN I had NO idea that kids were studying 3 HOURS afterschool EVERY DAY! That’s crazy to me, I mean I take other afterschools on the other weekdays, but 3 HOURS!? EVERY DAY!?
Asian students are not over-represented at Lowell right now. If there's no racial discrimination then each race is appropriately represented right now. Every current student has earned the right to attend Lowell - including every Asian student.
The same happens in California to competitive high schools with “too many” Asian students. University of California got rid of standardized tests, i.e. SAT/ACT, that Asian students achieve higher scores. And that’s not enough. Proposition 16, if passed in Nov, will allow race in decision making in public education, employment and contracting in the name of diversity but it’s really racial balancing. If they succeed, it will bring down California and America. Noprop16.info - the leader of the fight is a black man.
I attended Stuyvesant years ago and it was one of the best experiences of my life. At that time, the school was already maybe 50% Asian, and while people weren't as racially conscious as today, I remember right after starting freshman year, there was a gathering of black parents protesting outside the school who claimed that the test was rigged because it used "white English". It was such a baffling moment for teenage me that I still remember it so well today.
@@Lanternn1 I graduated a long time ago but testing hasn't changed much. If you are rich, you can pay someone to hold your hand and help you study but it probably won't help if you aren't fully committed to the getting in. If you are not rich but you are motivated (this is the majority of students at stuyvesant, bronx science, brookyn tech), you can do most of the prep yourself, maybe get a tutor to help you with the handful of questions you just can't get your head around. Take a bunch of practice test, afterwards don't just check the questions you got wrong, check the correct answers too so you know you got the right answer for the right reasons, this will also reinforce what correct answers look like and will improve your speed. Space out the practice tests so you don't run out of practice tests too early. Take actual tests given in recent years if they are available. Think like the test writer - When faced with a couple of answers that could be correct, put yourself in the position of the person writing the test and why they would prefer one answer over another. One of those answers is correct and the rest are incorrect for some reason, it mightbe overly broad, overly narrow or something along those lines. Have a back-up plan. Excelling at your local charter school or other merit based high school is valuable so be prepared to blossom wherever you are planted. The road to any sort of success is mostly paved with doing your best wherever you land.
the specialized high schools are not easy, just letting random people in so that its equal is extremely dumb because most of the people who passed the test have the effort and intellect to go through the high schools but if we just put an ordinary kid, chances are he will fail. im a current freshman at brooklyn tech ive always been the type to just do well in subjects without trying but the SHSAT actually provided a decent challenge the reward was motivating and i actually spent effort and did like 5 practice tests and attended some random tutoring (it barely helped honestly tutoring is pointless when the internet exists) the education system is extremely lenient for those who are simply born talented but having advanced high schools allow those who aren't challenged enough to go to their limits.
my God.. those who have passed the test and who have prepared hard to get to specialized schools deserve to be there... let your black people work hard for it.. .
the top 10% rule is the most fair way to do it. just like the top 10% rule is the most fair way to automatically admit students to top state universities. sure it may be easier to get in the top of the class in more economically disadvantaged areas bc it's less competitive but there is no way to make every school exactly the same. you can never completely level the playing field so by accepting the top percentage of a class and combining that with a standardized entrance exam is the most fair way to admit students into top schools. people that put in the effort to be in the top of their class have the highest chance of continued educational success and should be rewarded for that not punished by a lottery system. and even schools that aren't specialized, still put students into certain tracks either AP/Honors classes or regular classes. this is the fairest way to allow each student to get the specialized instruction they need to improve academically and foster their education. i took many AP/Honors classes though out middle and high school as well as regular classes. i knew where i needed to be challenged and also where i struggled and being in the appropriate classes on my level is what best supported my education
They made him take it twice altogether. Back then they didn't think asians cheated, they thought blacks did. This is the kneejerk white response to anyone doing better than whites. They must have cheated.
As school bus drivers for my black kids parents always not show up in time. What the hell take it serious and send children to school please. Drag my children out the bed . I beg you.we have to work together 😢
Why would it mean nothing to him if Black Lives Matter picketed for six months prior to receiving the award? If it wasn’t for Black Lives picketing he would not enjoy the rights he has today. He owes so much to his black ancestors that fought for him, that walked so he could run, and now he has the Gaul to say that an award being given after picketing means “nothing.”
NYC's 8 Specialized High Schools ALL fall in the top 8% of NYC public high schools for wealth. The 90 question SHSAT exam simply gives motivated PARENTS a chance to spend $2000+ in cramschools to increase their children's chances.
Did you even watch the clip before you spout the fake-news NYT narrative? Did you sleep through the part that more than half of the students in the Specialized High Schools are poor? Did you just mentally block the part that for 20 straight years, the biggest Specialized High School was majority Black & Hispanic? Oh yeah, fact-free world. Right.
@@s.a.vanvleck45 And can you not understand NYC specialized high schools are all in the top 8 percentile for wealth? How can I make this clearer? NYC schools average >70% poor. The students being left out come from schools that are 90-100% poor. BkTech was majority Black at a time where many students didn't want to attend BkTech. 80s-90s. Notice Stuyvesant was NEVER more than 10% Black, even at that time. But regardless of race, we should not use a single 90 question math/English exam as the SOLE measure of a child's academic potential because it's simply inaccurate. And that's a fact.
@@s.a.vanvleck45 Yeah they forget to mention the tens of $Ks spent per student by the city at failing schools just per year no less by the time they're in Grade 8, or that students themselves are motivated to apply often solo. Go figure.
@@GregsTutoringNYC True that. And also, they "conveniently" left it out of their brains that Asians have a far higher poverty rate in NYC than Blacks, so if its anybody who can't afford what they offensively call "cram schools," it's the Asians, not the Blacks. Again, fact-free world.
So... why should a single test be THE standard by which young promising students (of all backgrounds) are admitted to a specialized high school where they can prosper? The message of this video would make sense if the USA were a true meritocracy.
The single administration of the test is entirely the creation of Carranza's stupid Department of Education. Nothing in Hecht-Calandra state law prohibits the Department from letting the students take the test multiple times, and use the highest score. This "single administration" is on Carranza's Department of Education.
Thank you PLF for helping New Yorkers keep racism out of the specialized high schools! Racism has no place there and no place anywhere.
Your best argument regarding all of this is...criticizing the lawyers and how they delisted bald eagles?
Asking that more than a single multiple-choice exam be used as the admissions system for public schools is NOT racism.
@@shsatsunset7953 Asking to change admissions in order to discriminate on the basis of race IS racism.
@@shsatsunset7953 but banning the SHSAT together entirely is more detrimental to minority communities rather than helping them. Preventing a race from getting into these elite schools just because we’re being accepted in large masses compared to other races? That sounds like racism to me. Skill issue, I guess.
This is incredibly accurate. My family isn't exceptionally financially gifted. I worked my ass off to get into one of these Specialized high schools (currently attending Brooklyn tech as a freshman). The standard of academics these schools have set is astonishing to experience. Especially for families who can't afford private education, as it's an environment where peers who all worked extremely hard are placed in one facility with the sole unified purpose of gaining knowledge.
I’m a freshman at Brooklyn tech too, and if you were to just narrow this all down to two words: skill issue
4:30 professor Glenn Loury has my full respect, in addition to other speakers. I have respect for his pride and dignity and acknowledgment for merit. This is what our society needs.
This is personal to me. I missed the cutoff to Bronx Science by one point, and was afforded the opportunity to attend the Discovery Program and then being admitted. Being exposed to the academic excellence of the specialized high schools changed my life. Both my children attended Thomas Jefferson High School of Science and Technology in Alexandria, VA. Now they want to do the same with a 'lottery' admission scheme and doing away with the test. The problem is always with the schools that don't prepare the children for the specialized high school tests. Tests have no bias. It's not perfect, but it's the least imperfect system we have.
You do realize you benefited from a program to desegregate these schools? A program PLF is suing to limit. You got in using the Discovery program. PLF's argument is that because you got beat by a FRACTION of a multiple-choice question means you're not ready for these schools.
@@shsatsunset7953 The video specifically cited the Discovery Program as a model to increase disadvantaged student enrollment. Not one dictated by race.
@@davidpan5176 NO ONE is suggesting race be used as a factor in admissions to these schools. Pacific Legal, the makers of this video is challenging the discovery program in court. They argue that the Discovery program is unfair. Please research before siding with them.
@@shsatsunset7953 NO ONE is challenging the Discovery program as it was historically administered. Pacific Legal is challenging the Mayor's monstrous manipulation of Discovery in order to racially balance these schools.
What is the discovery program like? What did you do in the discovery program?
keep the test!! if any particular demographic isn't doing well on the test then study harder! KEEP THE TEST! Glenn Loury is right. KEEP THE TEST!
My father is a proud alumnus of Stuyvesant High where he graduated some time ago with honors. David Rem is right about the other schools in NYC fudging the scores and cooking the books: “You’re sending children into the world, and you just robbed them of an education.”
G xn 🎉❤️😉
Live from Bedford Stuyvesant the livest one/ Representin’ BK
So powerful. Thank you for making this video.
It also demonstrates that judging by outcome, which will always be unequal, is a fools errand. Reverse discrimination is the true discrimination.
A State that enforces equality of OUTCOMES will necessarily do violence to equality of RIGHTS, while a State that enforces equality of RIGHTS will also get a significant measure of equality of OUTCOMES.
Very Powerful!! Great message!!!
Same is happening for TJ in northern Virginia.
Regardless of race, a child's ENTIRE academic performance should NOT be reduced to a single 90 multiple-choice, math and English exam. Not while we have dozens of objective measures of that child's performance.
@@shsatsunset7953 There's nothing more objective than a standardized test scored by machines.
@@shsatsunset7953 You give me one, just one, admission system in the world, anywhere, that has produced 14 Nobel Prize science winners and legions of top scientists honored with all kinds of prizes, especially with the given demographics in income percentiles and non-native language speakers. One existence proof, anywhere. Otherwise, please do more homework before you come here to spout.
@@s.a.vanvleck45 The irony is that the SHSAT hasn't produced a single noble prize winner. Every one of those winners went to these schools before the SHSAT existed. Also, there are schools with higher "prize density", it's just that with over 15,000 students the SHSAT schools have more chances to win.
No irony, just splitting hairs. The SHSAT simply formalized what the SHSAT schools were doing before with their admissions test, but yes, the DOE has been dumbing down the SHSAT over the years, trying to play stealth equity. The SHSAT does need to be harder. As for that argument that 15,000 students give the SHSAT more chances to win, how about the entire NYC public school system, which the DOE claims has 1.1 million students? OK, that's K-12, while the SHSAT high schools are 9-12. So adjust that linearly; the City still has 41 times the students at the SHSAT high schools!
I can attest that there is some racial divide with SHSATs. I was from a predominate black neighborhood and school. I didn’t know nor was I told about the SHSAT. I loved math and science but no one in my family nor did my school mention anything about SHSAT. I took the test for Stuyvesant and fail…obviously because I wasn’t prepped for it….BECAUSE I DIDNT KNOW OF ITS EXISTENCE. And I hear from others in similar neighborhoods who also didn’t know
The war on meritocracy is on, but it will fail. Keep up the good fight!
It has now turned into a war on work -- really amazing!
I take classes SHSAT on Monday and Friday, and study on Saturdays, but DAMN I had NO idea that kids were studying 3 HOURS afterschool EVERY DAY! That’s crazy to me, I mean I take other afterschools on the other weekdays, but 3 HOURS!? EVERY DAY!?
Update: SHSAT is in 27 days and right now I’m only 9 points away(on the practice test) from getting into tech :)
Lowell High School in San Francisco is facing the same fate now, because there are over-represented Asian and white students.
Asian students are not over-represented at Lowell right now. If there's no racial discrimination then each race is appropriately represented right now. Every current student has earned the right to attend Lowell - including every Asian student.
Lowell high school is ranked number 78...
The same happens in California to competitive high schools with “too many” Asian students. University of California got rid of standardized tests, i.e. SAT/ACT, that Asian students achieve higher scores. And that’s not enough. Proposition 16, if passed in Nov, will allow race in decision making in public education, employment and contracting in the name of diversity but it’s really racial balancing. If they succeed, it will bring down California and America. Noprop16.info - the leader of the fight is a black man.
Thank you.
I attended Stuyvesant years ago and it was one of the best experiences of my life. At that time, the school was already maybe 50% Asian, and while people weren't as racially conscious as today, I remember right after starting freshman year, there was a gathering of black parents protesting outside the school who claimed that the test was rigged because it used "white English". It was such a baffling moment for teenage me that I still remember it so well today.
Please give me tips for how to study and prepare for the 9th grade shsat
@@Lanternn1 it's not worth it trust me
@@CreativeSarahWay it is, I know I have the skills to succeed if I don’t give up, I have a opportunity to get into the top schools in NYC
@@CreativeSarahWay I’m interested as well so like yea
@@Lanternn1 I graduated a long time ago but testing hasn't changed much.
If you are rich, you can pay someone to hold your hand and help you study but it probably won't help if you aren't fully committed to the getting in.
If you are not rich but you are motivated (this is the majority of students at stuyvesant, bronx science, brookyn tech), you can do most of the prep yourself, maybe get a tutor to help you with the handful of questions you just can't get your head around.
Take a bunch of practice test, afterwards don't just check the questions you got wrong, check the correct answers too so you know you got the right answer for the right reasons, this will also reinforce what correct answers look like and will improve your speed. Space out the practice tests so you don't run out of practice tests too early.
Take actual tests given in recent years if they are available.
Think like the test writer - When faced with a couple of answers that could be correct, put yourself in the position of the person writing the test and why they would prefer one answer over another. One of those answers is correct and the rest are incorrect for some reason, it mightbe overly broad, overly narrow or something along those lines.
Have a back-up plan. Excelling at your local charter school or other merit based high school is valuable so be prepared to blossom wherever you are planted. The road to any sort of success is mostly paved with doing your best wherever you land.
Discrimination is wrong. Especially by the government. Defund democrats.
nah
the specialized high schools are not easy, just letting random people in so that its equal is extremely dumb because most of the people who passed the test have the effort and intellect to go through the high schools but if we just put an ordinary kid, chances are he will fail. im a current freshman at brooklyn tech ive always been the type to just do well in subjects without trying but the SHSAT actually provided a decent challenge the reward was motivating and i actually spent effort and did like 5 practice tests and attended some random tutoring (it barely helped honestly tutoring is pointless when the internet exists) the education system is extremely lenient for those who are simply born talented but having advanced high schools allow those who aren't challenged enough to go to their limits.
Love this
my God.. those who have passed the test and who have prepared hard to get to specialized schools deserve to be there... let your black people work hard for it.. .
Yep my son can confirm and he has very smart black friend he study with too they just work hard nothing gets handed to u
the top 10% rule is the most fair way to do it. just like the top 10% rule is the most fair way to automatically admit students to top state universities. sure it may be easier to get in the top of the class in more economically disadvantaged areas bc it's less competitive but there is no way to make every school exactly the same. you can never completely level the playing field so by accepting the top percentage of a class and combining that with a standardized entrance exam is the most fair way to admit students into top schools. people that put in the effort to be in the top of their class have the highest chance of continued educational success and should be rewarded for that not punished by a lottery system. and even schools that aren't specialized, still put students into certain tracks either AP/Honors classes or regular classes. this is the fairest way to allow each student to get the specialized instruction they need to improve academically and foster their education. i took many AP/Honors classes though out middle and high school as well as regular classes. i knew where i needed to be challenged and also where i struggled and being in the appropriate classes on my level is what best supported my education
Let the Anti-China comments begin.
You forgot high school for performing arts immortal luzed I. Movie fame
Democrats solution to equality is lower the standards.
wow they really made her uncle take the test 2 more times
They made him take it twice altogether.
Back then they didn't think asians cheated, they thought blacks did.
This is the kneejerk white response to anyone doing better than whites. They must have cheated.
Yes glem
As school bus drivers for my black kids parents always not show up in time. What the hell take it serious and send children to school please. Drag my children out the bed . I beg you.we have to work together 😢
Why would it mean nothing to him if Black Lives Matter picketed for six months prior to receiving the award? If it wasn’t for Black Lives picketing he would not enjoy the rights he has today. He owes so much to his black ancestors that fought for him, that walked so he could run, and now he has the Gaul to say that an award being given after picketing means “nothing.”
Overrated as hell it's about what U do to make it
NYC's 8 Specialized High Schools ALL fall in the top 8% of NYC public high schools for wealth. The 90 question SHSAT exam simply gives motivated PARENTS a chance to spend $2000+ in cramschools to increase their children's chances.
Did you even watch the clip before you spout the fake-news NYT narrative? Did you sleep through the part that more than half of the students in the Specialized High Schools are poor? Did you just mentally block the part that for 20 straight years, the biggest Specialized High School was majority Black & Hispanic? Oh yeah, fact-free world. Right.
@@s.a.vanvleck45 And can you not understand NYC specialized high schools are all in the top 8 percentile for wealth? How can I make this clearer? NYC schools average >70% poor. The students being left out come from schools that are 90-100% poor.
BkTech was majority Black at a time where many students didn't want to attend BkTech. 80s-90s. Notice Stuyvesant was NEVER more than 10% Black, even at that time.
But regardless of race, we should not use a single 90 question math/English exam as the SOLE measure of a child's academic potential because it's simply inaccurate. And that's a fact.
@@shsatsunset7953 This reply passes for logic?!?!
@@s.a.vanvleck45 Yeah they forget to mention the tens of $Ks spent per student by the city at failing schools just per year no less by the time they're in Grade 8, or that students themselves are motivated to apply often solo. Go figure.
@@GregsTutoringNYC True that. And also, they "conveniently" left it out of their brains that Asians have a far higher poverty rate in NYC than Blacks, so if its anybody who can't afford what they offensively call "cram schools," it's the Asians, not the Blacks. Again, fact-free world.
So... why should a single test be THE standard by which young promising students (of all backgrounds) are admitted to a specialized high school where they can prosper? The message of this video would make sense if the USA were a true meritocracy.
The single administration of the test is entirely the creation of Carranza's stupid Department of Education. Nothing in Hecht-Calandra state law prohibits the Department from letting the students take the test multiple times, and use the highest score. This "single administration" is on Carranza's Department of Education.