Either attend elite schools or be stuck working for the people who did. This is the only thing that matters. Or, just retire early and stop trying to chase upward mobility through the workforce. But billionaires don't want community college grads to manage their companies. They want to buy the best brains money can afford.
@@economicdevelopmentplannin8715 Man, this is about as nonsensical a word salad as one can write. That you got at least 10 "likes" for this tripe is unfortunate and a big part of the problem.
As a Johns Hopkins alumni, Abby let me tell you, you are in the PERFECT place for medicine. I did engineering there and you will be just fine. Community is there for you. Much success to you girl!
I got into some of the Ivies (like Yale and Princeton) but I'm planning to choose Johns Hopkins because of its medicine focus! She completely made the right choice and I can't wait to become a Blue Jay too!!
In my opinion, Nailah dropped out because she doesn’t have a constant and supportive family/network. Sometimes parents use not having the knowledge or education as an excuse for not doing research to gain the skills needed to support their children. Serena and Venus Williams Dad knew nothing about Tennis but he learned, then taught his children.
Nailah didn't have the support, but that has nothing to do with her parents. They aren't required to support her at her age. Nailah made her own decision.
@@TomikaKelly They are absolutely required to support her at this age. Y’all make Black girls grow up too fast. You could clearly see the other men and women getting support from their families but Nailah was the only one that went back home to help her parents raise her siblings! This just lets me know that, Nailah has never really gotten adequate and consistent support since she was a child, that’s why she is the only one out of the group that dropped out!
@@TomikaKellyParents are responsible for their children until they are at least 21. You still have to support your child while they are in college, university or trade school.
What's sad about this is that none of this matters by the time you turn 30. I went to a small university after high school for two years, decided to go back home then went back to school a few years later and graduated with my associates degree. I still was able to maintain a position at one of the world's oldest investment banks. All this pressure isn't worth it. They should be chasing happiness, not stress and pressure. Teenagers shouldn't be going through this stuff; panic attacks, and all that crap. It's sad. 😢
The process has become insane, but yes, it does. The job market is tight and a "better" school can be a differentiator. Where you start has a large effect on where you are in 10 years. The worth ethic these kids develop will also serve them anywhere they go.
I have a few neighbors that went to the prestigious schools (Ivies or the “best” private liberal arts college). I went to a nothing special school, yet we live in the same neighborhood, have the same sized house, the same kind of car, send our kids to the same public school, take the same kinds of vacations, and on and on. They hang out with us public university rubes, so I don’t think they made “better” connections either. Post high school education is very important, but ultimately it’s WHO you are and what CAREER you choose, not what school you went to.
As a therapist whom works with kids and adults..every kid I see now is one of these children…high achieving, super anxious, super structured…that wasn’t the case 10 years ago.
I was going to high school about 10 years ago.. it was going on even back then... it seems to have really started after the economy collapsed in 2008. I think that you see more students, because the zoomers are more likely to seek out therapists.
This documentary miraculously found me. I’m a current high school senior who’s enrolled in the IB program. I sacrificed a lot in other to gain admission into UPenn, which I deem as my “dream school”. Getting rejected was pretty humbling as I balled my eyes out for 3 days. But regarding the field I want to pursue, which is nursing, I believe I’m gonna do great regardless where I end up! This doc was definitely a reminder that we shouldn’t tie our worth to these college admissions process and I definitely learned a lot during the whole process. It’s hard to accept the rejection but I definitely believe rejection is redirection and we’ll all end up where we were meant to be
going to upenn for an undergraduate degree in nursing would be such a massive waste you dont even understand it now. upenn is extremely expensive and the competition for scholarships is immense. for nursing its better to go to a community college program as there is virtually no difference to employers where their nurses got degrees. wait until you are pursing a masters or trying to become a nurse practicioner to go to a prestigious university like that.
Completely agree with the above statement. I’ll add with clinical degrees things that really matter are clinical accessibility (do you find your own or does the school place you themselves?), the attrition rate, and the first time pass rate for boards.
I agree with the first comment as well, with nursing since there is a massive shortage employers won't really care where you went to get your degree, if you have it and your license, you'll get hired
My son is graduating this year in the class of 2024. I still remember the night when he got admission to his dream school and how much stress disappeared.
I used to spend more than 50 hours on schoolwork and classes in high school and eventually got into UCLA, the best school to that I was accepted. That's more hours than I put into my full-time job, now.
@@Rayameem For the short time I spent there, yes. I loved the school. I could not afford it however, so I left without credits in the middle of the semester. But being in California was one of the most happiest moments of my life.
Which school is that? I'm a Millennial who graduated HS and started college during the peak of the recession. I was CRUSHED when I got denied from all 5 of my top schools. Then I got a full ride to a small out of state school. My friends all graduated college with 5 figures in debt and I would've been right alongside them had I gotten in. Instead I got paid to go to college. Rejection was a blessing.
I get really sad when reading such comments. I come from switzerland and will be going to university this year. If you do the college equivalent you are able to enlist at any university without restriction as far as I know. For medicin you need to pass an entrance exam but there are no grade barriers. I signed up for the swiss MIT equivalent and never had a worry about getting accepted. Other than food, a place to live and around 1000-3000 dollars in school supplies per year the eductation is free. Now I just hope to not get bonked out of school lol.
My daughter’s school had some college visits. One of admission personnels who visited them said that average time he spends on reading college application doc of a single applicant is like 7 minutes due to so many applications they have to go through these days. When I heard that I thought being accepted by those popular /prestigious colleges is like a lottery. Lottery among so many almost equally qualified candidates. Given that, emotionally overinvesting in one so called “ dream college” does not make sense at all. Important thing is, like those kids who got over initial disappointment, kids have to find themselves, stay enthusiastic about academic fields they want to pursue no matter where they go. They are the ones who choose and build their career and life.
This is all correct. Admissions officers spend less than 10 minutes on any application the first time around (and even less if a student gets past the first round) and that includes reading the essays that kids shooting for these schools bust their asses to write. It is absolutely a lottery for the schools like those profiled in this piece. Note how the young woman who targeted Notre Dame as her "dream" school never articulated a good "why." Neither did the other kids shooting for Yale and Georgetown. She ended up at Gonzaga and the young man who wanted Yale ended up at Florida State and it is likely that both will have the same measure of professional success had each attended the more "prestigious" college. It really IS a racket. Problem is too many people just refuse to believe that and the college counselors who specialize in the Ivies and Ivy plus schools keep these myths alive. I have heard more than one parent say "well, I want my kid to start rounding third base and heading for home" when they start college and they think the college name does that. And not even objective evidence to the contrary will convince them otherwise.
That is only the average, not the amount of time a likely candidate's paper is read. Most are going to be thrown out in less than a minute because the writing isn't at the college level. Those will bring down the average. If the average is 7 minutes, I'd assume a well written paper is probably getting 15 minutes+ of consideration.
Wanted to add that UCLA got 173K applicants this year, UC Irvine got 143K applications last year etc. Since CA is test-blind, I don't see how admissions officers have much time on each application.
At best the Harvard, Yale, etc. is only marginally better than the big state colleges. Good students can get a good education in many places. And, yes, I have knowledge: my son went to Harvard.
As a college planning counselor I can tell you that you are 100% correct. If a kid has the goods, she has the goods. There's lots of students who choose to attend a highly selective college (I refuse to use the words top or elite) when they probably would have had a better experience elsewhere.
Empirically false. Especially for talented low-income students, they are far more likely to succeed at more selective institutions than less selective ones. Raj Chetty's study showed this.
@@kenlandon6130You're talking about different things. In a macro sense the OP is correct. Smart motivated kids will succeed anywhere and multiple studies have shown that there is little if any evidence that where a student attends college impacts their professional success. With one exception - where you are correct is that low income, minority students do benefit from attending highly selective schools and have better outcomes, especially if they move away from home to attend college. But this is less about the school itself than being taken out of an environment where there's a high risk that college will take a back seat to family and other responsibilities.
Depends on what you mean by succeeding. Want to make $125k as a senior manager somewhere in your 30s? Any college can get you there. Want to make $500k+ as a VP somewhere by the time you're 40? Elite schools make that much more likely. Most people aren't even exposed to the level of success elite colleges make possible through the connections and prestige granted to alumni.
@@kyleolson9636There’s actually scant to no evidence of that. Earning the money you are talking about is about career choice, not the school. The whole "roommate factor" you hear about for the highly selective schools is overblown as well? Why? Because surveys have shown that rich kids hang out with rich kids, middle class kids hang out with middle class kids, black students hang with black students, and so on.
Nailah is such a beautiful spirit! I was rooting for her the whole documentary but I'm so happy to see her follow what she wants, she has such an admirable attitude
She is not following her dreams and in my point of view, if care is not taken, she will fall by the wayside. She is from a stereotypical unsupportive Black family that wants her to “succeed” so they can look good but not do the work that healthy families do to prepare their children for success. Nailah is a child that was burdened with figuring things out by herself without good and consistent guidance. Now she is burdened with helping her parents raise her siblings. 55:10
Where I work-mostly engineers-no one gives a damn where you went school. What matters is can you deliver your projects, do you communicate well, do you work well with others, do you have integrity? I was thinking about Steven Spielberg. He got rejected by one of the most prestigious film schools in the world, USC, so he went to Cal State Long Beach instead. It’s such a pity, because he might have had a successful career as a director and producer if only USC had accepted him… Chasing after elite schools is pure vanity. And, the elite schools seem to be competing with one another to see who can reject the most students. This, too, is pure vanity. They aren’t improving their institutions by rejecting greater numbers of qualified students; it’s about bragging rights over their peers.
Too be fair... if you are rich and live in Cambridge or D.C. then the first words out of your mouth are "when I was at Harvard" it is really impressive to them.. and someone else's daddy might get you are job. Outside of that "Big Club that you ain't in" (George Carlin LOL) no one really cares. Any place the cares about your college or class rank, is not some place you would want to work anyway.
I earned my B.A. at a state school (University of Alabama). I have two masters degrees: M.A. Stanford, M.S. Johns Hopkins. I was accepted at Brown. My education has paid off handsomely. Stanford was everything I thought it would be.
I'm glad one girl is happy to land at Johns Hopkins, better suited to her medical ambitions. I went to Hopkins on a merit fellowship and it was perfect for me - intellectual, challenging, and a wonderful library and campus. Happy Ending for Eileen - and that's just the beginning.
In the first clip, she's not wrong. But she came across terribly when they learned the kid did not get into Yale. The notion that your kid did not get what she wants makes them idiots is silly. And the kid's rationalization for why she didn't get in wasn't attractive either. Maybe they just liked other applicants more. Maybe your essays were not all that great. Maybe there was nothing special about your extracurriculars or your teacher recommendations. Frankly, these people are awful. The irony of all this is that it REALLY doesn't matter where privileged kids attend college because they will benefit from that privilege in terms of familial and community connections.
It could have just been the editing, but the doc didn’t really tell us if Abby had any exceptional achievements beyond her test scores and class rank. NHS President and editor of the school newspaper are pretty standard EC’s. I thought Abby was spot on when she was talking about how there were a lot of applicants like her. I thought her perspective was very mature, especially when she talked about how her grades and test scores made her qualified but Yale was building a class and just didn’t see the need for her in it.
Abby’s mom (paraphrasing) - “Abby definitely benefitted from her privileged environment but if she had been from those underrepresented environments she’d have a better chance to get into the college she wants”…🤦🏽♂️ and that, my friends, is what audacity of privilege.
I don't get what some people want. Sure, the mom's reaction wasn't the most mature but Abby couldn't be more reasonable. She was even being considerate to socio-economic factors for those with less than her. The mom should've realized legacy plays a greater role. But it's downright disgusting how some here are trivializing her hard work. These are the same who cry "privilege" when they don't get it in. The real privilege is bringing others down while the rest of us pull them up. I can relate to Abby and that's how I'd convince myself to not go bitter. She's accepting her outcome and not blaming others unlike some who only complain about the system.
Nope. THAT'S the DEI TRUTH... Racism Quotas because of false paradigms -- as IF *ALL* "Whites," Jews and Asians are "Privileged." Harvard has had this shiiite since 1920s/ 1930s/ 1940s, instating QUOTAS to deal with the "Jewish Problem." Now, it's Asians who are being capped.
I watched this with my kid who is entering high school next year. We both found it to be very enlightening and see it as a bit of a cautionary tale. A must-watch for all parents with kids entering high school!
Coming from someone who just got rejected from all their schools in the early action round with a very strong academic profile, this documentary is very accurate. The admissions process is absolutely insane and will continue to grow that way
@@AndersonChanIt’s only insane at about 50 schools. If one chooses to jump into that, that's on them. And if they do, they need to be prepared with good alternatives. There are hundreds of good colleges in this country. If a student has got the goods, he or she has got the goods, regardless of the school name on the diploma. If a high performing student is rejected by every school they applied to, then it means that they did not approach the application process properly or rationally. I find it hard to feel sorry for that person.
Sad that so many people put so much emphasis on the name of the school they attend. I went to a state school (N.C. State University) and ended up working with engineers from Duke, Dartmouth and Stanford making the same salary as them and having the same title. I just think they wasted a lot of extra money going to private colleges. I later went to law school and got a job in a top firm. My law school was not one of the top 50 law schools, but I would not trade my learning experience with anyone.
Glad it worked out for you but you’re missing the point. No one ever said you can’t have a wonderful career without going to a top school or that going to a top school guarantees you a wonderful career. The point is that going to a top school can give you give you an advantage. Maybe that advantage is overestimated, but it’s real - just look at where the Supreme Court justices got their law degrees.
@@alexchen7729 All I can say is that a current federal judge and a former Congressman Tim Ryan both went to my law school and it is not in the top 50 law schools. I do believe there is a slight advantage saying you went to an Ivy League school, but it is very overstated. I believe the degree is the most important thing, preferably STEM. Second is work ethic and third is the school you attended (least important). Some of my worst professors went to Ivy League schools. I guess they are smart, but cannot teach worth a flip. I had several professors who went to Harvard and NYU.
@pandaangry1267 Not true. My family was not wealthy. My dad died when I was 7 and I was basically raised by a single Mom. My mother never remarried. I took student loans for law school and I did co-op in undergraduate school to help pay for my education. I was not well connected. Neither of my parents were influential or political. Neither of my parents went to my college or grad school and there was no nepotism. I just worked harder than anyone else in my engineering school. I studied 6 days a week. I took advantage of 2 internships. My college life totally sucked, but I graduated with honors.
@proudliberal24-sv1wo Nice post, but it smacks of insecurity. Obviously, successful people in the workforce attended an assortment of colleges, if any at all. But for many families, spending more to send their kid to a highly selective private school isn't "wasting a lot of extra money", it's called an investment! Because the fact remains even today that there is a MUCH easier path to prestigious jobs for students who matriculate prestigious universities.
I wish I had watched this earlier. Great documentary and very real. Having graduated from an ivy, I can tell you that it’s harder to get in than to graduate and it may open doors for you if you want to go into finance or something like that but attending one of these schools will not make or break your future. Bright people who work hard can succeed anywhere. It is better to be a “big fish” in a “little pond” and not take on a ton of debt by attending an affordable college, especially if you want to pursue graduate education. Final comment, legacy at these highly selective colleges only helps if you have millions to donate.
36:53 made me cry. At that young age - after having done what even the kings of 200 years ago didn’t achieve - she says I could have done more in high school. College is no longer a place for learning (as their primary function) but has become a feather in the cap for a few.
That's like saying that I'm smarter than Einstein because I know how to code. Plenty of kings were completely incompetent or literally insane, so being a better person than a handful of ancient kings is not a very high bar to clear.
I used to feel just like her, always pushing myself and not blaming anyone else. But to be fair she isn't the only who got rejected. The point is how she doesn't blame others, yet there are some here who only trivialize her hard work. They'll be the same ones to blame systemic injustice but never taking accountability for themselves.
There are 10,000 two- and four-year colleges and universities in the US, so to say college is for a few is a bit questionable. Most of them accept a majority of applicants.
@@brianmeegan6384they are after the name of the college. The parents play a big role here. I personally think they should try to get out with the least debt possible and go to a state college or university.
This was a great documentary. I wholeheartedly appreciate the dedication put into creating a documentary like this. I'm a junior in high school and while I'm not necessarily aiming for the prestige of universities, I sometimes become hyper competitive in my school environment and watching this documentary let me remind myself that it will all work out in the end and there is no need to fret for the future. Once I become a senior I'll likely receive acceptances and rejections but all in all I want to be prepared to remind myself of the important message that at the end of the day, college is just another step of many. :)
Well I know Abbie now so I know where she selected to attend. But, I hope people can learn from my experience. The school I always told myself that I would attend was Stanford, but I ended up getting rejected EA, and I was so upset! I felt like everything I worked for was not considered and that I wouldn't end up anywhere special. Flash forward to RD decisions where I was accepted to schools like Johns Hopkins, Columbia, Cornell, Northwestern, UCLA, UMich, and Princeton (along with others). Because I have always wanted to go into medicine, Johns Hopkins was the obvious choice, and I could not be happier where I am. This is an important lesson because we always think we have it all planned out and that if things do not go the way we planned, it's going to be a disaster. The truth is that I didn't think I would be happy unless I was at Stanford, and I was so scared I would not get into any good schools after my Stanford rejection (the first school I heard back from). In retrospect, I was completely foolish, and we need to take the pressure off of ourselves because everything will be ok!
I have an identical perspective to you! I'm class of 2028, so just going through this all right now, but I chose Hopkins over Yale, Princeton, Brown, Duke, etc. because I too wanted to go into medicine - Abby ended up in the exact right place. I'm so happy to hear your perspective and I can't wait to join as a Blue Jay next fall :)
Really well done. I am very happy that the girl that got into John Hopkins is happy with her decision... I feel her comments about sacrificing her personal time for school are very insightful.. there is a lesson there
Yes, I was so happy for her as well. Hopkins is such a wonderful place to pursue medicine. I got into Yale for example (her dream school) but am deciding to attend Hopkins instead because of this medicine focus.
Nailahs story reminds me of myself. Both of us are from poorly funded cities and from families that didn’t have the means or the emotional bandwidth to help us thrive. Even when we try our hardest to overcome our circumstances, if the support isn’t there from the people around you, your outcomes of doing well decrease significantly. I’m currently in the same boat as her….college dropout who’s kind of confused what to do with my life. The college apparatus is really good at keeping non traditional students in this perpetual cycle of not letting us get a degree due to financial circumstances. I really hope Nailah is able to find some impetus to get back to school and succeed in some way. She seems really bright and has a lot of unlocked potential.
For the overwhelming majority of kids going to college with high aspirations, the flagship in-state university is going to be a good choice. Big picture, the cost/benefit of going to college isn’t what it used to be, so going to a ridiculously expensive “elite” school may not be worth it, especially if a kid & family have to take on a pile of debt.
It's a poorly kept secret how high-school rejects can fairly easily "back-door" right into my alma mater (USC) or even UC-Berkeley or UCLA by Junior year with a straight-A transcript from local community college. Tenacity really pays off in the admissions game!
@@USCTrojanHaterPolice It’s still extremely difficult. The acceptance rate is still only like 15 percent. It’s slightly easier. I had the grades in high school but due to the limited opportunities I had at my small town high school, I didn’t have the same opportunity for ECs and AP.
This was a very good Documentary. Am 59 years old, attending college again and right now struggling with only two modules out of 20. But I had to take a step back and realized 25 years ago I actually got this Degree through a highly recognized University so why I am stressing. People like me needed to see this especially at this time. Take the stress and worry and cast it aside. Whether you make it or not life will put you exactly where you should be. We need a few more Documentaries that is similar to this so that it would help college bound and College Students. Thanks a million.
I like to remind parents that university admissions standards have risen since we were at university, and that a high percentage of past graduates-possibly us-wouldn’t get admitted today. As a recruiting manager at elite firms, I’ve hired many people from public universities and from elite, private universities. What matters most are 1) the ability to demonstrate a high degree of relevant competence (through persistent effort), 2) a willingness to learn and collaborate, and 3) continuous improvement. Look for universities and employers who recognize and support these. And if you don’t know what degree/career to pursue, consider military/non-military public service. Or explore vocational school for a high-demand technical services job (e.g., electrician, plumber, EV repair, air traffic controller, elevator mechanic, radiologist, dental technician,…). Ideally, you’ll want a job that absolutely requires a challenging certification and/or associate’s degree, so you won’t have unlimited competition that undermines your job stability and compensation.
With the recent Supreme Court decision, it’s odd that this documentary did not add an Asian American student’s voice. As we all know, Asian Americans have to live up to a very different standard than the kids presented here.
No they don't. They are gaining admission to selective colleges at record rates. The Asian-American plaintiffs in that case were used by the right-wing organizations that funded the case in order to prevent other people of color from gaining admission to those schools. Ask every one of those plaintiffs who did not get into Harvard where they went to school, almost all will respond with Yale, Columbia, Cornell, Tufts, Duke, UVa, etc. So, honestly, they can all go blank themselves. None of them lost anything by not getting into Harvard.
No they don't. Like most applicants to the most highly selective schools these days, many simply can't deal with not getting everything they want and desire. They can't handle being told no and having no control over it. The Asian-American students who served as plaintiffs in the Harvard case allowed themselves to be used by bigoted white men who want all the spots reserved for themselves and their own. Not a single Asian-American student will benefit from the eradication of affirmative action. And if you asked all the plaintiffs who did not get into Harvard, I guarantee that each and every one of them attended a "prestigious" college and mist did so with huge financial aid. So, honestly, f--- them for making things more difficult for other minority, mostly low income students.
@@lucydoe1334A court decision includes data to justify the decision. It doesn't mean that that is all the data or that their interpretation is correct. This decision was a typical result oriented decision by this Supreme Court. That is, it was decided based on ideology and the justices who joined the majority crafted the decision to justify their predetermined result.
A healthy fear of poverty is one form of motivation...but i get the sense that the motivation to aim for the more "prestigious" university is more so characterized by a snobby disgust for being a "commoner" .
The wealthiest send their children to the same places. Then the next generation build their network of relationships with each other. Then they go into positions that their elders and families help open them up to. It's all about who know. That can be the deciding advantage.
I was a top student from a small town in Kentucky and my dad was a truck driver. This was in the early 80s and I desperately wanted to go to medical school. I was my class valedictorian, had excellent ACT scores, and got a full academic scholarship to a regional state university with an excellent pre-med program and a well earned reputation for getting people who completed the program into medical school. I applied early decision to the University of Kentucky College of Medicine and received another full academic scholarship. I graduated in the top 20 in my class and matched for residency in pediatrics at Georgetown University Medical Center. After 20 years in private practice in Maryland, I wanted something different and applied to the FDA (which is pretty competitive to get in) and was hired. At the time I didn’t realize it, but the Georgetown connection made a difference. The moral of my story (other than hard work pays off) is that if you want a career in medicine, maybe you don’t have to go into huge debt by going to an Ivy League university for college or medical school. UK was a great place to go to medical school, but my residency certificate says Georgetown. And that made a difference.
For some perspective, Abbie's non-first choice college, and the one she eventually enrolled in - John Hopkins - has a 7.3% acceptance rate in 2022. Even these student's "second" choice is that hard to get into
Nailah falling through the cracks is very sad. Her story shows how many obstacles blk kids are facing. It also highlights how blk parents and predominantly blk high schools do not have the same resources to prepare their kids to compete with the intense competition from other applicants all over the country. Blk kids can work so hard but so many other factors are stacked against them, affecting their financial options, grades, test scores, psychological health, and support systems. That's what Affirmative Action was for... to help balance that out because the starting line for some kids is so much further behind everyone else.
I agree with you, but I also wonder if affirmative action is a bad decision for students of color. I personally benefitted from affirmative action (low test scores, poor education where I grew up, being Mexican), but I was admitted to a school where I truly could not perform as well as my classmates. I feel like affirmative action is a bandaid solution to address socioeconomic disparity but doesn’t actually address the kinds of circumstances that lead POC to not seek degrees. In other words, I don’t believe affirmative action is going to provide students with better financial situations or is going to improve the quality of education in a city that is underfunded. The majority of students who drop out of college without earning a degree are POC. So even if POC can get into college, affirmative action doesn’t necessarily support these students in any other way except giving them a chance at college. Affirmative action doesn’t address the economic situation, or the academic situation. It only addresses the issue of who gets into the school and who doesn’t. So, I’m not so sure that affirmative action was a good idea after all. It kind of opened the flood gates to students who maybe are not ready for college. We should be addressing the issue of disparity in colleges by starting at the underfunding of public schools in the US. Maybe if I didn’t go to a poorly funded school, I might have had a degree right now instead of owing money for a degree I never was able to finish due to economic barriers. Idk. That’s just my thoughts on that.
@@Jmpwfdpdl - Affirmative action was not meant to be a panacea for every challenge a POC will face. Affirmative Action is simply one tool to help counteract some of the unique disadvantages that a POC may face due to no fault of their own. Entry is just a small equalizer that sets a fairer starting point. It gives minorities an opportunity to get in, but it does not guarantee their degree or success. They still have to prove themselves in their classes and jobs. The standards to earn a diploma remains the same for everyone. But Affirmative Action has ultimately been extremely helpful and successful for minorities in general towards greater opportunities than they would have had. It was and still is a good idea and a necessary source of assistance. Most kids applying to college have been working hard to get there and ARE ready for the challenges of college or a new profession. Ultimately Affirmative Action does much more good than harm. And it is the only form of reparations that black people are likely to ever receive. And there is no reason why two issues can't be worked on at the same time. We can try to address underfunded public schools AND protect DEI programs at the same time. A college degree is still the best chance for economic equality.
@taralynnrye You can show it to as many people as you want. They will simply nod their heads, outwardly lament the situation and say how awful it is and then most will ignore everything because they have been brain washed into thinking that where one attends college is much more important than it actually is. Mental health and smart financial decisions too often take a back seat to bragging rights. For the kids in this piece shooting for places like Yale and Georgetown, not a single one of them needs to pay a dime for college. Scads of "next tier" schools every bit as good as those in the Ivy League Athletics Conference will offer them a boatload of money to attend and offer them a great education and post-grad opportunities. It's just that the parents and brainwashed kids are desperate to say they are attending Yale instead of, say, Syracuse or the University of Miami.
I love how emotionally intelligent these kids are. I was like Nailah, interviewed by Georgetown (I froze/got shy) and was rejected by most of my schools in 2005. I still made it far, as long as you roll with the punches, adapt to obstacles and be kind to yourself, you will make it.❤❤
When applying you want to have reach schools (Harvard, Yale, Berkley), target schools, and a safety school (something that you have a super high priority of getting into.) Do you have a pilot's licence? That is a bit much. Does an Ivy League college have a higher return on investment than a public college? This needs to consider the additional tuition and fees of the Ivy League College. Are students going to start using AI to write the admissions essays? Rejection is a big part of life and eventually you are going to encounter it.
You go to the ivy leagues and universities to open yourself up to building your Network of people. The reality is its all about who you Know in this world. Your ability to create opportunities, to Getting jobs and certain positions. What is not talked about is that the relationships you have with people will be greatest factor in tandem with your qualifications into your prospective professional fields. The kids who started the big tech FANG companies found each other on campuses.
The crazy thing about this video is they're applying to these schools as first year students. If the applied as transfer students, the requirements are less stringent
@@edwmac This statement is recklessly inaccurate as certain top privates do in fact accept a critical mass of transfers every year. (E.g., Cornell, Northwestern, Vanderbilt, Notre Dame, Wash U etc.).
@amnrob101 For highly selective schools, the transfer requirements are often more daunting, as a successful applicant normally presents excellent grades/test scores from high school, in addition to strong grades in college. This is coupled with the uncertainty of seat availability for the target class that the applicant is looking to join.
Thank you for making this video, this video has changed my mind about college decisions and the application process as a whole. I’m a 16YR old Sophmore who spent his entire 8th-early 10th grade “career” seriously freaking out on the “what if’s” on what “top” colleges I wanted to attend. It changed my perspective on extracurriculars and made me realize I should be doing extracurriculars because I love them/will help me financially rather than doing them as a stepping stone for college apps. I now focus on what I want my life to be AFTER college rather than what college I will go to.
1) Indian and Chineses student should have been included in this show, to turn it into a truly entertaining reality show. 2) Please follow up with these kids 4 years after graduation, to see where they are. Compare their coworkers and peers and see if the Yale JohnsHopkins blahblah was really necessary. I bet you, wherever they are, that ivy league degree was not really needed.
For point #2, Abby (the girl going to Hopkins) would definitely not end up any differently had she gone to Yale. Hopkins is the place to go for premed and sets you up wonderfully for medicine. To put it in perspective, I was accepted to three Ivy league institutions (Yale, Princeton, and Brown) and chose to go to Hopkins instead since I wanted to go premed.
I'm a 3rd generation, 18 year middle school teacher. The most honest parents, I believe, can realistically look at their child's skills and motivation and apply a reasonable level of expectation to where they will be. Many parents confuse the parent's motivation with the child's motivation. Just looking at the film clip, some of these kids seem very awkward socially - though they may be book smart. Setting your child up to believe they are an academic genius is setting them up to fail. In my early years of teaching nearly 18 years ago, I taught a student who was raised to believe she was an academic genius. She was not liked by her peers because she thought so highly of herself. She had a hard time seeing that she was no smarter than the students around her. She was just raised by her parents to believe she was smarter. So when she didn't meet expectation, it absolutely crushed her. I genuinely felt badly for her. But this happens more often than people think. The world of academia views your child differently than you do. And we won't even get into the world of student loan debt 😢😢.
I never felt like this and still got into one of the best public schools in the country. 2*2 is 4 no matter where u go. All doctors don’t go to Yale, Harvard or those other Ivy leagues that does not mean they are not a good doctor.
Just beautiful! Captures so much, from different sides, but the best is to hear the journey of these students, in their own words - so inspiring - so much wisdom and hope.
"it's fine if your dream is to be a loving person"-- this hits so hard. as a senior who just finished the whole college application process months ago, I've started to realize how crazy it is for all students and parents to invest everything, including time, money, mental stability, and health, just to go into a university with a big name. It's also common that on reddit people will ask which school is more prestigious and like they evaluate the university based on its reputation and prestige. And it's honestly sad that even now I'm saying these, I'm still stuck in this myth of attending an elite university and can't pull myself out of the situation. My entire high school years, what all I can recall now, is long hours of studying, cramming for exams, and staying up till 4 or 5 am; it's funny how I even feel guilty about hanging out with friends on weekends because that means losing few hours of studying. Although I'm glad that my hard work paid off and that I've received offers from several great uni, I wish I could tell my 16 year old self to relieve the stress and savor the time of teenage years.
It appears that Abby's mother may have implanted the notion in Abby's mind that if she fails to secure admission to an Ivy League school, it's due to some type of affirmative action (obsolete) benefiting underrepresented minorities. By mentioning the Jewish name, she might be attempting to divert attention from targeting minorities. It's disheartening to witness parents perpetuate such harmful beliefs, especially considering the fierce competition for Ivy League acceptance. Abby may possess the qualifications for Harvard, but the reality of quotas for incoming freshmen could play a role in her rejection. However, attributing it solely to another student's ethnicity or background oversimplifies a complex admissions process and undermines the achievements and aspirations of all applicants. Stop blaming your child’s rejection on minorities.? I wonder how Abby’s mother would react to learn that a white school mate was accepted and not Abby whose gpa was higher.
I picked up on that real quick. If Abby’s mother was so savvy about how the game is played, why didn’t she put her daughter in some sport or some niche activity (squash, fencing, lacrosse, race car driving, sailing, etc.) that the ivies recruit, since they’re so “privileged?” I guess it’s just easier for these parents to blame those pesky racial/ethnic minorities, for why their Abby’s didn’t get into Yale.
Affirmative action never "benefited" minorities as much as it was a distraction from legacy. Only 1 minority, i.e. black was satisfied with getting a little leg up over others like Jewish people or Asians who make up even smaller fractions than black people. It's sort of this reactive virtue signaling that's holding us back. You only hear the "community™" complain about legacy because AA was removed. While not 100% right, Abbie's mom does have a point. Abbie is a much smaller minority too. I can understand Abbie, because that's how I would rationalize to console myself too, otherwise I would end up like the people complaining about losing AA even though it was only an unfair loophole for wealthy African immigrants. Actual marginalized students, especially Native or Hispanic never benefited much from it. This is reflected in both SAT cut-offs prior to the admissions & the *LATEST* graduation rates. This quota system is no different than the unfair systems that perpetuated segregation. Just because it benefits our most coddled 🍫minority now, doesn't mean it's right. If we made the _complex_ admission process more transparent, objective and accountable instead of leaving it to the whims and fancies of admissions officers, we can reduce all forms of discrimination and complaints. Thanks for attending my 2 min ted talk :P
Would any of you say the same about black people blaming, shaming and gaslighting Asians for losing AA that unfairly benefited them over everyone else?
Bless my luck, i was a committed average student and was very much ok with that. Also, more luck as i have a normal mother who isn't living through me.
I love having kids just to put unreasonable pressure on them to do insane things. Just let the kids do what they want (some of them are, they like the game that the ivies play, and I kind of respect it), but putting pressure on your kids to be something YOU want them to be is wrong in my book.
I graduated 2 year college diploma, 3 year BA, 4 year HBA. Do not go into 4 year program from high school. Go into a one year or two year certificate or diploma program at good school where credits will transfer. Then think about 3 or 4 year degree. The 5, 6, and 7 year graduation rates at 4 year degree programs are a joke. To long for single credential. Finish high school, 2 year diploma max, then assess your situation. Do not waste your time. Buy books, paper and printer, print everything, go to all class, do all readings the week before. Never drop out, only change programs/ major.. You can do it.. I was last person in my high school likely to do so much.. take leapfrog approach.. one diploma, certificate, degree at a time.. Its a grind, learn to love it.. if you fail that's OK.. I know plenty of people who changed major/ downgraded from degree to 2 year college diploma.. Do it while your young..
People will do anything for a "name." I earned all my degrees online while working full-time. My B.S. is from a private for-profit college, my MBA from a private Catholic university, my M.S. from a public university, and my Ph.D. from a private Christian university. I earned my Ph.D. at 29, which was impressive for someone who did not go straight to college after high school. Today, I am a tenure-track assistant professor at an R2 (high research activity) university.
What matters most that you live a happy , stress free life. Be the best you can be . Dont be top hard on yourself .. rejection give you better direction ..
As an international student. I wish i watched this on junior year😅 and not worrying about the colege application to much, anyway good documentary and i guess itu would be great that if every senior amd junior highschooler to watch this.
You go to open up yourself to build up your network of relationships with people. The future professionals who would be in the positions that open the doorway to you. Meritocracy is only one small part of how things really are operating out here in The "open market." Its all about who you know in the end. The kids who started the tech FANG companies found each other on the campuses. What I come across with so many people and the jobs they have, is that the huge deciding factor was who they Knew or know someone that put them on as the Advantage.
It's all about "going the distance", going all the way is what matters. There is no point in burning yourself out, or destroying your long-term health just because you wanted to get into an elite school.
Unfortunately, the things we learn from this piece will not prevent parents and, by extension, their kids from thinking that the only path to success is if the kids attend one of the same 30 or 40 schools. It is mostly about ego -- I got into a "better" college than you did; my kid goes to the "better" college, so my kid is better than your kid, ergo, I was a better parent than you were. As a college prep and admissions counselor, I can say with confidence that, on balance, it does not really matter where one goes to college (graduate school IS different) in terms of "prestige" and ranking. As I often say to parents, if your kid's got the goods, she's got the goods, whether she attends Columbia or SUNY Albany. No kid should have a "dream" school and I hate that my fellow professionals use that word so readily. Also, the notion that it has become impossible to get into a "good" college is nonsense. It has become almost impossible to get into just 30 or 40 schools, but there are hundreds of good schools that are not so highly selective and do not require students to give up their sanity and their childhood to gain admission. Half the schools in the awful US News Top 100 schools accept at least half their applicants. When a kid says "my dream school is Harvard," my first question is why? They never have a good answer.
@@blaiseducdaumont1280It can in very few sectors and very few employers in those sectors, if at all, but even there only up to a point. If an Ivy League grad is changing jobs every 2 or 3 years and has not risen in the ranks anywhere, and this happens a lot, the sheen of the degree will have worn off and opportunities will eventually dry up because they will have been figured out. Honestly, what you said is all in your mind and what you think should be the case,, but it's not reality.
Very well said! As a 40 year old looking back at my high school days being in the same shoes as these kids, I realize the name of the game is not prestige or recognition. It's wisely playing your cards in life. So that you find the most efficient and "least stressful" path to happiness and success. If that means going to a great local uni even though you're a 4.0 student and think you deserve ivy league, and you're still going to have a successful career either way, then so be it. Maximize your talents there and have fun doing it. Everything in between is just distraction to get you to ignore what truly makes you happy regardless of what anyone else thinks about your collegiate status. If only kids can get this perspective early on they'll realize at the end they could still be very successful without all the pressure from parents and peers. And when they get older they'll realize life is only a one time thing and it's about experiences and the moments created along the way.
We need to push Junior College more. There’s nothing wrong with going to Juco for 2 years. It gives the student and parent more time to make a decision and reduces significantly how much they’re going to pay or owe. If I could go back, I’d definitely go to Juco first. Especially since experience is way more important than where you went to school for most professions.
The first part of the problem, is what the girl said; when she compared college to the kind of car you drive. The second problem is the parents who think THEIR child is exceptional and DESERVES the best school. Thank God, I didn't have to deal with this. My parents barely glanced at my grades. They knew they'd raised me with the proper values and they assumed I'd do my best in school.
Watching this made me cry because I am South African and after graduating in high school, I applied to my local unis but also to the 3 uni's in US and I got accepted into Harvard and Yales and to be honest,I only applied to see if they would accept someone like me living in a developing country in Africa and I was shocked when I got emails of acceptance to study as a first year back in 2022.And tbh, If only my parents were able to afford the tuition fees, I would have gone to Harvard University but atleast I attend close to home at the University of Free State in my country doing my second year in Chemical Engineering and having a bursary pay and not my parents. What more could I ask for if my parents don't stress about working extra hours to pay a lot of uni fees. If it was possible, I would give the space I got to study in Harvard and Yale's to these students on this video who didn't get in. But I agree with that quote that where you end up is where you were meant to be. 😇❤
Go where you are wanted! In the real world you can get beat for your dream job for reasons outside your control. Don’t let not getting in lead you to hatred , bitterness, racism and jealousy. Go where they want you!
I went to a pretty good university. Not an Ivy League but a pretty good one. I regret not having spent more time at a community college. I was lucky because I graduated early and top of my class. The state helped me my first year and a half because of that. I went to community college for a couple of summer sessions. Had I done more during the summers, I would have had less debt. I didn’t graduate with much but still it would have helped. Top universities are great but I don’t think it’s necessary for your first two to 5 semesters. Especially in terms of completing basics… absolutely unnecessary expense. Also, in terms of who ivy leagues are accepting, yes they want high achievers(and legacies and people who can afford the tuition) but they also don’t want cookie cutter students who think they can follow a roadmap to get in.
I hope you aren't referring to any ethnic group when you say, "cookie cutter students." But thanks for sharing your story. I was considering community college for my initial semesters too, but it's way harder to transfer to an Ivy league right? 😅
@@babyamyxo-o6c Everyone seems so preoccupied about race. Cookie cutter meaning, just like in the story, they have all the extracurriculars, the gpa, the experience saving the planet, the charity work… that is not exceptional when everyone is trying to do the most in those areas in the same sort of ways. No it’s not way harder to transfer compared to getting accepted as a first year. At least that is my opinion. I have known people to transfer to one of the Trinity and a few others like Stanford Brown and Wharton.
@@angelinimartini I think it comes to why they do it and how well they do it too. Like you said, if everyone is doing all of them at the same level just to tick off boxes, no one stands out. From what I've heard top schools don't take many transfers but it's nice to know there are a few who've managed it.
@@angelinimartini Btw, I'm far from being preoccupied about race. But I've seen people who pledge solidarity and boast their race lead the civil rights movements use that as an insult towards another minority without any push back. I'm sure you understand what I mean. Sorry for the rant, but it's the hypocrisy that gets me.
@@babyamyxo-o6c I’m half indigenous. Be a little weird for me to go that direction. Know what I mean? Especially when no matter how well students of color did before, people would say they would get accepted because of affirmative action. lol someone, just once, said stuff like that to me but not about me… I get it but if you’re not qualified you’re not getting in. If I didn’t have the grades I did, I wouldn’t have even been able to even afford university. Universities are so competitive 😩 I feel for students more and more.
good documentary! great ambitions and expectations will always have some disappointments; that is life least, they have some directions in life and striving hard to achieve brave on!
I feel so heartbroken for abbey she really is mature for her response I hope she knows all of us watching her support her even without the acceptance into Yale you’re still a wonderful person and a strong student
It is ironic how much students stress out about getting into a specific college when the real challenge should be finding a good first job.... (and this is coming from someone who recently completed both processes). Where you go to college matters much less than the skills you develop. By 4 years within your career, no one really cares unless you are going into academia...
The corporate world is when they'll realize the majority of what mattered to them the last 4 years no longer matters. Now the hiring manager can reject your resume just because you went to a rival university 🤷🏾♀️
This video makes me so sad, honestly. I definitely back the statement that in most fields of work, it doesn’t matter that much where you got your degree. I can also confirm that people you meet outside of the work setting won’t care either. I went to a top 25 school, but I really didn’t need it to get the position I wanted. A large portion of my acquaintances don’t even know where I went to school.
Good work with this incridible video,which enables us to get more details on how does the admission work. And this is also inspiring for me to study harder. Thanks a lot sincerely
No Asian or Indian students in the representation? I feel bad for Abbie because of her mom. If you have such a poor attitude towards unrepresented and under-represented minorities, or that the Univ is 'idiots' to not accept your child, you need a reality check and maybe let go of your ego. Ps: it may also be hurting your child. Congratulations to all who got to a school - you will be ok in life irrespective of where you land. Teach your kids to be happy and be good citizens, and take care of each other. In the end, that is all that matters.
These high schoolers need to understand that either going to or not going to a top university like an ivy league does NOT determine if your life is “complete” or if your life is “ruined” It’s absolutely horrible and sad that these kids now are being convinced that this determines who they’re going to be. As if you don’t go to the Harvard’s, Stanford’s Yale’s of the word then you’re a “nobody” or something to that effect. Also these tip top grades that you get in high school, putting the insane amount of time into all the AP, IB extra curriculars, etc in order to do that is just not worth it. The other sad thing is once you get into these schools you will not be getting straight A’s. College is a whole different beast and it’s not just ivy league, it’s any university. Not to mention, it’s just not worth the insane amount of money. The pathway of 2 years at a community college and 2 years at a university should be put out there WAY more. That’s just how I feel, interested to hear what people think.
Your dream school should be a local community college. Get that 2 year degree and transfer. Your wallet will thank you. There is no room for student loans in anyone's sane mind
This is crazy. Its sad too. My brother made strait As since kindergarten. When he graduated in early 2000s, he had offers all over Harvard , Yale, and etc. He choose local State College. In the end doesn't matter in the job market. If your going for Medical it matters for you to have and use the knowledge. Law it comes down to how good you can argue and persuade. I'm a life learner. I will tell you there is so much a person can do and learn that I really wish these kids would learn to appreciate life and enjoy living.
This year was also my graduating year. I applied to 17 schools and got rejected from every one except for one, but got a transfer offer at a good school. Bottom line is it wasn’t worth the anxiety and OCD I went through. We all know how meritoess this process is.
I see some of these kids are just not academically inclined - and yet they are applying to Yale and Harvard! Sean definitely strikes me as highly intelligent and motivated, and he belongs at Yale.
Every parent who has a high school student should take the time to watch this documentary and every high school student should too.
Either attend elite schools or be stuck working for the people who did. This is the only thing that matters. Or, just retire early and stop trying to chase upward mobility through the workforce. But billionaires don't want community college grads to manage their companies. They want to buy the best brains money can afford.
❤
@@economicdevelopmentplannin8715 or maybe learn code and start a crypto token/make software hehe
@@economicdevelopmentplannin8715 Man, this is about as nonsensical a word salad as one can write. That you got at least 10 "likes" for this tripe is unfortunate and a big part of the problem.
A huge percentage will watch it, nod their heads knowingly and then ignore the message and lessons that should be learned.
As a Johns Hopkins alumni, Abby let me tell you, you are in the PERFECT place for medicine. I did engineering there and you will be just fine. Community is there for you. Much success to you girl!
I got into some of the Ivies (like Yale and Princeton) but I'm planning to choose Johns Hopkins because of its medicine focus! She completely made the right choice and I can't wait to become a Blue Jay too!!
“If the power goes out, that’s ok I’ll light a candle”….❤
What an amazing young man! If only the youth of today aspired to be like him, as opposed to the idiot ‘influencers’ on media platforms.
❤
Literally broke my heart 😭
In my opinion, Nailah dropped out because she doesn’t have a constant and supportive family/network. Sometimes parents use not having the knowledge or education as an excuse for not doing research to gain the skills needed to support their children.
Serena and Venus Williams Dad knew nothing about Tennis but he learned, then taught his children.
Nailah didn't have the support, but that has nothing to do with her parents. They aren't required to support her at her age. Nailah made her own decision.
@@TomikaKelly They are absolutely required to support her at this age. Y’all make Black girls grow up too fast. You could clearly see the other men and women getting support from their families but Nailah was the only one that went back home to help her parents raise her siblings! This just lets me know that, Nailah has never really gotten adequate and consistent support since she was a child, that’s why she is the only one out of the group that dropped out!
This is why 2 year schools have less retention. There isnt a straight path to graduation nor a group of supportive friends that is there till the end.
@@TomikaKellyParents are responsible for their children until they are at least 21. You still have to support your child while they are in college, university or trade school.
@@TomikaKelly Are you kidding??? Your typical attitude is why she dropped out.
What's sad about this is that none of this matters by the time you turn 30.
I went to a small university after high school for two years, decided to go back home then went back to school a few years later and graduated with my associates degree. I still was able to maintain a position at one of the world's oldest investment banks.
All this pressure isn't worth it. They should be chasing happiness, not stress and pressure. Teenagers shouldn't be going through this stuff; panic attacks, and all that crap. It's sad. 😢
sometimes it is just passion to study from the best institutes and best professors maybe
what position?
you're absolutely right, I say this to the kids I teach all the time (granted I'm from the UK so the systems are completely different)
The process has become insane, but yes, it does. The job market is tight and a "better" school can be a differentiator. Where you start has a large effect on where you are in 10 years. The worth ethic these kids develop will also serve them anywhere they go.
I have a few neighbors that went to the prestigious schools (Ivies or the “best” private liberal arts college). I went to a nothing special school, yet we live in the same neighborhood, have the same sized house, the same kind of car, send our kids to the same public school, take the same kinds of vacations, and on and on. They hang out with us public university rubes, so I don’t think they made “better” connections either. Post high school education is very important, but ultimately it’s WHO you are and what CAREER you choose, not what school you went to.
As a therapist whom works with kids and adults..every kid I see now is one of these children…high achieving, super anxious, super structured…that wasn’t the case 10 years ago.
I was going to high school about 10 years ago.. it was going on even back then... it seems to have really started after the economy collapsed in 2008.
I think that you see more students, because the zoomers are more likely to seek out therapists.
This documentary miraculously found me. I’m a current high school senior who’s enrolled in the IB program. I sacrificed a lot in other to gain admission into UPenn, which I deem as my “dream school”. Getting rejected was pretty humbling as I balled my eyes out for 3 days. But regarding the field I want to pursue, which is nursing, I believe I’m gonna do great regardless where I end up! This doc was definitely a reminder that we shouldn’t tie our worth to these college admissions process and I definitely learned a lot during the whole process. It’s hard to accept the rejection but I definitely believe rejection is redirection and we’ll all end up where we were meant to be
going to upenn for an undergraduate degree in nursing would be such a massive waste you dont even understand it now. upenn is extremely expensive and the competition for scholarships is immense. for nursing its better to go to a community college program as there is virtually no difference to employers where their nurses got degrees. wait until you are pursing a masters or trying to become a nurse practicioner to go to a prestigious university like that.
Completely agree with the above statement. I’ll add with clinical degrees things that really matter are clinical accessibility (do you find your own or does the school place you themselves?), the attrition rate, and the first time pass rate for boards.
@@sqiudgames9856I completely agree
I agree with the first comment as well, with nursing since there is a massive shortage employers won't really care where you went to get your degree, if you have it and your license, you'll get hired
University of Penn was not that impressed with my college grades. So instead I became a stock broker for 30 years.
My son is graduating this year in the class of 2024. I still remember the night when he got admission to his dream school and how much stress disappeared.
That’s wonderful. Congratulations to you and your son!
I used to spend more than 50 hours on schoolwork and classes in high school and eventually got into UCLA, the best school to that I was accepted. That's more hours than I put into my full-time job, now.
I've also worked as an educational assistant and I am a tutor so I've seen both sides of this.
Was it worth it?
@@Rayameem For the short time I spent there, yes. I loved the school. I could not afford it however, so I left without credits in the middle of the semester. But being in California was one of the most happiest moments of my life.
@@Rayameem I want this generation to have an easier path, though, and I do not want them to work as much as I did.
Working over 50 hours per week is simply not worth it.
I’m the same age as the people in this documentary. I got into my dream school, but with the toll it took on me I’m not sure how worth it that was.
Which school is that?
I'm a Millennial who graduated HS and started college during the peak of the recession. I was CRUSHED when I got denied from all 5 of my top schools. Then I got a full ride to a small out of state school. My friends all graduated college with 5 figures in debt and I would've been right alongside them had I gotten in. Instead I got paid to go to college. Rejection was a blessing.
HEALTH is THE MOST important thing in life!!!!! You CAN"T BUY health!!!!
Wt kind of toll
I get really sad when reading such comments. I come from switzerland and will be going to university this year. If you do the college equivalent you are able to enlist at any university without restriction as far as I know. For medicin you need to pass an entrance exam but there are no grade barriers. I signed up for the swiss MIT equivalent and never had a worry about getting accepted. Other than food, a place to live and around 1000-3000 dollars in school supplies per year the eductation is free. Now I just hope to not get bonked out of school lol.
@guntera3845 How do you afford living costs? Do you have a job, take out student loans, get grants or have your parents help out?
My daughter’s school had some college visits. One of admission personnels who visited them said that average time he spends on reading college application doc of a single applicant is like 7 minutes due to so many applications they have to go through these days. When I heard that I thought being accepted by those popular /prestigious colleges is like a lottery. Lottery among so many almost equally qualified candidates. Given that, emotionally overinvesting in one so called “ dream college” does not make sense at all. Important thing is, like those kids who got over initial disappointment, kids have to find themselves, stay enthusiastic about academic fields they want to pursue no matter where they go. They are the ones who choose and build their career and life.
This is all correct. Admissions officers spend less than 10 minutes on any application the first time around (and even less if a student gets past the first round) and that includes reading the essays that kids shooting for these schools bust their asses to write. It is absolutely a lottery for the schools like those profiled in this piece. Note how the young woman who targeted Notre Dame as her "dream" school never articulated a good "why." Neither did the other kids shooting for Yale and Georgetown. She ended up at Gonzaga and the young man who wanted Yale ended up at Florida State and it is likely that both will have the same measure of professional success had each attended the more "prestigious" college. It really IS a racket. Problem is too many people just refuse to believe that and the college counselors who specialize in the Ivies and Ivy plus schools keep these myths alive. I have heard more than one parent say "well, I want my kid to start rounding third base and heading for home" when they start college and they think the college name does that. And not even objective evidence to the contrary will convince them otherwise.
It's 4 minutes per application for the Univ of CA schools. And yes it's definitely a lottery.
That is only the average, not the amount of time a likely candidate's paper is read. Most are going to be thrown out in less than a minute because the writing isn't at the college level. Those will bring down the average. If the average is 7 minutes, I'd assume a well written paper is probably getting 15 minutes+ of consideration.
Wanted to add that UCLA got 173K applicants this year, UC Irvine got 143K applications last year etc. Since CA is test-blind, I don't see how admissions officers have much time on each application.
At best the Harvard, Yale, etc. is only marginally better than the big state colleges. Good students can get a good education in many places. And, yes, I have knowledge: my son went to Harvard.
Smart kids will succeed no matter where they are.
As a college planning counselor I can tell you that you are 100% correct. If a kid has the goods, she has the goods. There's lots of students who choose to attend a highly selective college (I refuse to use the words top or elite) when they probably would have had a better experience elsewhere.
Empirically false. Especially for talented low-income students, they are far more likely to succeed at more selective institutions than less selective ones. Raj Chetty's study showed this.
@@kenlandon6130You're talking about different things. In a macro sense the OP is correct. Smart motivated kids will succeed anywhere and multiple studies have shown that there is little if any evidence that where a student attends college impacts their professional success. With one exception - where you are correct is that low income, minority students do benefit from attending highly selective schools and have better outcomes, especially if they move away from home to attend college. But this is less about the school itself than being taken out of an environment where there's a high risk that college will take a back seat to family and other responsibilities.
Depends on what you mean by succeeding. Want to make $125k as a senior manager somewhere in your 30s? Any college can get you there. Want to make $500k+ as a VP somewhere by the time you're 40? Elite schools make that much more likely.
Most people aren't even exposed to the level of success elite colleges make possible through the connections and prestige granted to alumni.
@@kyleolson9636There’s actually scant to no evidence of that. Earning the money you are talking about is about career choice, not the school. The whole "roommate factor" you hear about for the highly selective schools is overblown as well? Why? Because surveys have shown that rich kids hang out with rich kids, middle class kids hang out with middle class kids, black students hang with black students, and so on.
Kids can’t be kids anymore. Next week my 2yr old starts her volunteer gig at the local daycare during the day. Afterwards it’s crew practice.
This made me chuckle. Start working on those personal essays about slime.
Seriously!!!
No more playing with bubbles and puddles its off to the races as soon as they eat solid food
Nailah is such a beautiful spirit! I was rooting for her the whole documentary but I'm so happy to see her follow what she wants, she has such an admirable attitude
She is not following her dreams and in my point of view, if care is not taken, she will fall by the wayside.
She is from a stereotypical unsupportive Black family that wants her to “succeed” so they can look good but not do the work that healthy families do to prepare their children for success.
Nailah is a child that was burdened with figuring things out by herself without good and consistent guidance. Now she is burdened with helping her parents raise her siblings. 55:10
Where I work-mostly engineers-no one gives a damn where you went school. What matters is can you deliver your projects, do you communicate well, do you work well with others, do you have integrity?
I was thinking about Steven Spielberg. He got rejected by one of the most prestigious film schools in the world, USC, so he went to Cal State Long Beach instead. It’s such a pity, because he might have had a successful career as a director and producer if only USC had accepted him…
Chasing after elite schools is pure vanity. And, the elite schools seem to be competing with one another to see who can reject the most students. This, too, is pure vanity. They aren’t improving their institutions by rejecting greater numbers of qualified students; it’s about bragging rights over their peers.
Too be fair... if you are rich and live in Cambridge or D.C. then the first words out of your mouth are "when I was at Harvard" it is really impressive to them.. and someone else's daddy might get you are job.
Outside of that "Big Club that you ain't in" (George Carlin LOL) no one really cares. Any place the cares about your college or class rank, is not some place you would want to work anyway.
I earned my B.A. at a state school (University of Alabama). I have two masters degrees: M.A. Stanford, M.S. Johns Hopkins. I was accepted at Brown. My education has paid off handsomely. Stanford was everything I thought it would be.
Education should NOT BE a luxury but a right
I'm glad one girl is happy to land at Johns Hopkins, better suited to her medical ambitions. I went to Hopkins on a merit fellowship and it was perfect for me - intellectual, challenging, and a wonderful library and campus. Happy Ending for Eileen - and that's just the beginning.
I didn’t care for Abby’s mother, but Abby had a realistic perspective.
In the first clip, she's not wrong. But she came across terribly when they learned the kid did not get into Yale. The notion that your kid did not get what she wants makes them idiots is silly. And the kid's rationalization for why she didn't get in wasn't attractive either. Maybe they just liked other applicants more. Maybe your essays were not all that great. Maybe there was nothing special about your extracurriculars or your teacher recommendations. Frankly, these people are awful. The irony of all this is that it REALLY doesn't matter where privileged kids attend college because they will benefit from that privilege in terms of familial and community connections.
It could have just been the editing, but the doc didn’t really tell us if Abby had any exceptional achievements beyond her test scores and class rank. NHS President and editor of the school newspaper are pretty standard EC’s.
I thought Abby was spot on when she was talking about how there were a lot of applicants like her. I thought her perspective was very mature, especially when she talked about how her grades and test scores made her qualified but Yale was building a class and just didn’t see the need for her in it.
Abby’s mom (paraphrasing) - “Abby definitely benefitted from her privileged environment but if she had been from those underrepresented environments she’d have a better chance to get into the college she wants”…🤦🏽♂️ and that, my friends, is what audacity of privilege.
I don't get what some people want. Sure, the mom's reaction wasn't the most mature but Abby couldn't be more reasonable. She was even being considerate to socio-economic factors for those with less than her. The mom should've realized legacy plays a greater role.
But it's downright disgusting how some here are trivializing her hard work. These are the same who cry "privilege" when they don't get it in. The real privilege is bringing others down while the rest of us pull them up.
I can relate to Abby and that's how I'd convince myself to not go bitter. She's accepting her outcome and not blaming others unlike some who only complain about the system.
Nope. THAT'S the DEI TRUTH... Racism Quotas because of false paradigms -- as IF *ALL* "Whites," Jews and Asians are "Privileged." Harvard has had this shiiite since 1920s/ 1930s/ 1940s, instating QUOTAS to deal with the "Jewish Problem." Now, it's Asians who are being capped.
Nailah’s story broke my heart. She needed more support.
This is what I have been thinking.
Absolutely...😢
I watched this with my kid who is entering high school next year. We both found it to be very enlightening and see it as a bit of a cautionary tale. A must-watch for all parents with kids entering high school!
Coming from someone who just got rejected from all their schools in the early action round with a very strong academic profile, this documentary is very accurate. The admissions process is absolutely insane and will continue to grow that way
@@AndersonChan Wow! That's crazy. Thank you for sharing your experience.
@@AndersonChanIt’s only insane at about 50 schools. If one chooses to jump into that, that's on them. And if they do, they need to be prepared with good alternatives. There are hundreds of good colleges in this country. If a student has got the goods, he or she has got the goods, regardless of the school name on the diploma. If a high performing student is rejected by every school they applied to, then it means that they did not approach the application process properly or rationally. I find it hard to feel sorry for that person.
Sad that so many people put so much emphasis on the name of the school they attend. I went to a state school (N.C. State University) and ended up working with engineers from Duke, Dartmouth and Stanford making the same salary as them and having the same title. I just think they wasted a lot of extra money going to private colleges. I later went to law school and got a job in a top firm. My law school was not one of the top 50 law schools, but I would not trade my learning experience with anyone.
Glad it worked out for you but you’re missing the point. No one ever said you can’t have a wonderful career without going to a top school or that going to a top school guarantees you a wonderful career. The point is that going to a top school can give you give you an advantage. Maybe that advantage is overestimated, but it’s real - just look at where the Supreme Court justices got their law degrees.
@@alexchen7729 All I can say is that a current federal judge and a former Congressman Tim Ryan both went to my law school and it is not in the top 50 law schools. I do believe there is a slight advantage saying you went to an Ivy League school, but it is very overstated. I believe the degree is the most important thing, preferably STEM. Second is work ethic and third is the school you attended (least important). Some of my worst professors went to Ivy League schools. I guess they are smart, but cannot teach worth a flip. I had several professors who went to Harvard and NYU.
@pandaangry1267 Not true. My family was not wealthy. My dad died when I was 7 and I was basically raised by a single Mom. My mother never remarried. I took student loans for law school and I did co-op in undergraduate school to help pay for my education. I was not well connected. Neither of my parents were influential or political. Neither of my parents went to my college or grad school and there was no nepotism. I just worked harder than anyone else in my engineering school. I studied 6 days a week. I took advantage of 2 internships. My college life totally sucked, but I graduated with honors.
@proudliberal24-sv1wo Nice post, but it smacks of insecurity. Obviously, successful people in the workforce attended an assortment of colleges, if any at all. But for many families, spending more to send their kid to a highly selective private school isn't "wasting a lot of extra money", it's called an investment! Because the fact remains even today that there is a MUCH easier path to prestigious jobs for students who matriculate prestigious universities.
Really putting some of her friends on blast by calling them "unsuccessful"
Lots of Mom and Dad in these applications
Yes, mom and dad projecting their life dissatisfaction onto their kids.
I wish I had watched this earlier. Great documentary and very real. Having graduated from an ivy, I can tell you that it’s harder to get in than to graduate and it may open doors for you if you want to go into finance or something like that but attending one of these schools will not make or break your future. Bright people who work hard can succeed anywhere. It is better to be a “big fish” in a “little pond” and not take on a ton of debt by attending an affordable college, especially if you want to pursue graduate education. Final comment, legacy at these highly selective colleges only helps if you have millions to donate.
36:53 made me cry. At that young age - after having done what even the kings of 200 years ago didn’t achieve - she says I could have done more in high school. College is no longer a place for learning (as their primary function) but has become a feather in the cap for a few.
For most of human history college was finishing school for the elite.
That's like saying that I'm smarter than Einstein because I know how to code. Plenty of kings were completely incompetent or literally insane, so being a better person than a handful of ancient kings is not a very high bar to clear.
I used to feel just like her, always pushing myself and not blaming anyone else. But to be fair she isn't the only who got rejected.
The point is how she doesn't blame others, yet there are some here who only trivialize her hard work. They'll be the same ones to blame systemic injustice but never taking accountability for themselves.
There are 10,000 two- and four-year colleges and universities in the US, so to say college is for a few is a bit questionable. Most of them accept a majority of applicants.
@@brianmeegan6384they are after the name of the college. The parents play a big role here. I personally think they should try to get out with the least debt possible and go to a state college or university.
This was a great documentary. I wholeheartedly appreciate the dedication put into creating a documentary like this. I'm a junior in high school and while I'm not necessarily aiming for the prestige of universities, I sometimes become hyper competitive in my school environment and watching this documentary let me remind myself that it will all work out in the end and there is no need to fret for the future. Once I become a senior I'll likely receive acceptances and rejections but all in all I want to be prepared to remind myself of the important message that at the end of the day, college is just another step of many. :)
Just enjoy your youth. Do not stress over the college racket.
Well I know Abbie now so I know where she selected to attend. But, I hope people can learn from my experience. The school I always told myself that I would attend was Stanford, but I ended up getting rejected EA, and I was so upset! I felt like everything I worked for was not considered and that I wouldn't end up anywhere special. Flash forward to RD decisions where I was accepted to schools like Johns Hopkins, Columbia, Cornell, Northwestern, UCLA, UMich, and Princeton (along with others). Because I have always wanted to go into medicine, Johns Hopkins was the obvious choice, and I could not be happier where I am. This is an important lesson because we always think we have it all planned out and that if things do not go the way we planned, it's going to be a disaster. The truth is that I didn't think I would be happy unless I was at Stanford, and I was so scared I would not get into any good schools after my Stanford rejection (the first school I heard back from). In retrospect, I was completely foolish, and we need to take the pressure off of ourselves because everything will be ok!
I have an identical perspective to you! I'm class of 2028, so just going through this all right now, but I chose Hopkins over Yale, Princeton, Brown, Duke, etc. because I too wanted to go into medicine - Abby ended up in the exact right place. I'm so happy to hear your perspective and I can't wait to join as a Blue Jay next fall :)
Really well done. I am very happy that the girl that got into John Hopkins is happy with her decision... I feel her comments about sacrificing her personal time for school are very insightful.. there is a lesson there
Yes, I was so happy for her as well. Hopkins is such a wonderful place to pursue medicine. I got into Yale for example (her dream school) but am deciding to attend Hopkins instead because of this medicine focus.
Nailahs story reminds me of myself. Both of us are from poorly funded cities and from families that didn’t have the means or the emotional bandwidth to help us thrive. Even when we try our hardest to overcome our circumstances, if the support isn’t there from the people around you, your outcomes of doing well decrease significantly. I’m currently in the same boat as her….college dropout who’s kind of confused what to do with my life. The college apparatus is really good at keeping non traditional students in this perpetual cycle of not letting us get a degree due to financial circumstances. I really hope Nailah is able to find some impetus to get back to school and succeed in some way. She seems really bright and has a lot of unlocked potential.
For the overwhelming majority of kids going to college with high aspirations, the flagship in-state university is going to be a good choice. Big picture, the cost/benefit of going to college isn’t what it used to be, so going to a ridiculously expensive “elite” school may not be worth it, especially if a kid & family have to take on a pile of debt.
Flagship in-state universities are insanely hard to get into now. UGA, UW Madison, UMich, UT Austin, UF, and so on are insanely selective now.
That’s the risk of going to an elite U as the salary may have the same debt to income ratio upon graduation
I went to USC as a first generation transfer student. I came from foster care.
That’s wonderful - all your hard work paid off! Congratulations.
It's a poorly kept secret how high-school rejects can fairly easily "back-door" right into my alma mater (USC) or even UC-Berkeley or UCLA by Junior year with a straight-A transcript from local community college. Tenacity really pays off in the admissions game!
@@USCTrojanHaterPolice It’s still extremely difficult. The acceptance rate is still only like 15 percent. It’s slightly easier. I had the grades in high school but due to the limited opportunities I had at my small town high school, I didn’t have the same opportunity for ECs and AP.
I was first gen too -- neither of my parents graduated from high school, and I eventually earned a doctorate in medicine.
This was a very good Documentary. Am 59 years old, attending college again and right now struggling with only two modules out of 20. But I had to take a step back and realized 25 years ago I actually got this Degree through a highly recognized University so why I am stressing. People like me needed to see this especially at this time. Take the stress and worry and cast it aside. Whether you make it or not life will put you exactly where you should be. We need a few more Documentaries that is similar to this so that it would help college bound and College Students. Thanks a million.
I like to remind parents that university admissions standards have risen since we were at university, and that a high percentage of past graduates-possibly us-wouldn’t get admitted today.
As a recruiting manager at elite firms, I’ve hired many people from public universities and from elite, private universities. What matters most are 1) the ability to demonstrate a high degree of relevant competence (through persistent effort), 2) a willingness to learn and collaborate, and 3) continuous improvement. Look for universities and employers who recognize and support these.
And if you don’t know what degree/career to pursue, consider military/non-military public service. Or explore vocational school for a high-demand technical services job (e.g., electrician, plumber, EV repair, air traffic controller, elevator mechanic, radiologist, dental technician,…). Ideally, you’ll want a job that absolutely requires a challenging certification and/or associate’s degree, so you won’t have unlimited competition that undermines your job stability and compensation.
With the recent Supreme Court decision, it’s odd that this documentary did not add an Asian American student’s voice. As we all know, Asian Americans have to live up to a very different standard than the kids presented here.
What’s the different standard?
No they don't. They are gaining admission to selective colleges at record rates. The Asian-American plaintiffs in that case were used by the right-wing organizations that funded the case in order to prevent other people of color from gaining admission to those schools. Ask every one of those plaintiffs who did not get into Harvard where they went to school, almost all will respond with Yale, Columbia, Cornell, Tufts, Duke, UVa, etc. So, honestly, they can all go blank themselves. None of them lost anything by not getting into Harvard.
No they don't. Like most applicants to the most highly selective schools these days, many simply can't deal with not getting everything they want and desire. They can't handle being told no and having no control over it. The Asian-American students who served as plaintiffs in the Harvard case allowed themselves to be used by bigoted white men who want all the spots reserved for themselves and their own. Not a single Asian-American student will benefit from the eradication of affirmative action.
And if you asked all the plaintiffs who did not get into Harvard, I guarantee that each and every one of them attended a "prestigious" college and mist did so with huge financial aid. So, honestly, f--- them for making things more difficult for other minority, mostly low income students.
Read the Supreme Court decision. They have all the data in there.
@@lucydoe1334A court decision includes data to justify the decision. It doesn't mean that that is all the data or that their interpretation is correct. This decision was a typical result oriented decision by this Supreme Court. That is, it was decided based on ideology and the justices who joined the majority crafted the decision to justify their predetermined result.
A healthy fear of poverty is one form of motivation...but i get the sense that the motivation to aim for the more "prestigious" university is more so characterized by a snobby disgust for being a "commoner" .
The wealthiest send their children to the same places. Then the next generation build their network of relationships with each other. Then they go into positions that their elders and families help open them up to. It's all about who know. That can be the deciding advantage.
I was a top student from a small town in Kentucky and my dad was a truck driver. This was in the early 80s and I desperately wanted to go to medical school. I was my class valedictorian, had excellent ACT scores, and got a full academic scholarship to a regional state university with an excellent pre-med program and a well earned reputation for getting people who completed the program into medical school. I applied early decision to the University of Kentucky College of Medicine and received another full academic scholarship. I graduated in the top 20 in my class and matched for residency in pediatrics at Georgetown University Medical Center. After 20 years in private practice in Maryland, I wanted something different and applied to the FDA (which is pretty competitive to get in) and was hired. At the time I didn’t realize it, but the Georgetown connection made a difference. The moral of my story (other than hard work pays off) is that if you want a career in medicine, maybe you don’t have to go into huge debt by going to an Ivy League university for college or medical school. UK was a great place to go to medical school, but my residency certificate says Georgetown. And that made a difference.
For some perspective, Abbie's non-first choice college, and the one she eventually enrolled in - John Hopkins - has a 7.3% acceptance rate in 2022. Even these student's "second" choice is that hard to get into
fr ;-; I could only hope to get into Johns Hopkins lmao
she's brilliant
Thank you for being the only person who spelled her name correctly.
Nailah falling through the cracks is very sad. Her story shows how many obstacles blk kids are facing. It also highlights how blk parents and predominantly blk high schools do not have the same resources to prepare their kids to compete with the intense competition from other applicants all over the country. Blk kids can work so hard but so many other factors are stacked against them, affecting their financial options, grades, test scores, psychological health, and support systems. That's what Affirmative Action was for... to help balance that out because the starting line for some kids is so much further behind everyone else.
I agree with you, but I also wonder if affirmative action is a bad decision for students of color. I personally benefitted from affirmative action (low test scores, poor education where I grew up, being Mexican), but I was admitted to a school where I truly could not perform as well as my classmates. I feel like affirmative action is a bandaid solution to address socioeconomic disparity but doesn’t actually address the kinds of circumstances that lead POC to not seek degrees. In other words, I don’t believe affirmative action is going to provide students with better financial situations or is going to improve the quality of education in a city that is underfunded. The majority of students who drop out of college without earning a degree are POC. So even if POC can get into college, affirmative action doesn’t necessarily support these students in any other way except giving them a chance at college. Affirmative action doesn’t address the economic situation, or the academic situation. It only addresses the issue of who gets into the school and who doesn’t. So, I’m not so sure that affirmative action was a good idea after all. It kind of opened the flood gates to students who maybe are not ready for college. We should be addressing the issue of disparity in colleges by starting at the underfunding of public schools in the US. Maybe if I didn’t go to a poorly funded school, I might have had a degree right now instead of owing money for a degree I never was able to finish due to economic barriers. Idk. That’s just my thoughts on that.
@@Jmpwfdpdl - Affirmative action was not meant to be a panacea for every challenge a POC will face. Affirmative Action is simply one tool to help counteract some of the unique disadvantages that a POC may face due to no fault of their own. Entry is just a small equalizer that sets a fairer starting point. It gives minorities an opportunity to get in, but it does not guarantee their degree or success. They still have to prove themselves in their classes and jobs. The standards to earn a diploma remains the same for everyone. But Affirmative Action has ultimately been extremely helpful and successful for minorities in general towards greater opportunities than they would have had. It was and still is a good idea and a necessary source of assistance. Most kids applying to college have been working hard to get there and ARE ready for the challenges of college or a new profession. Ultimately Affirmative Action does much more good than harm. And it is the only form of reparations that black people are likely to ever receive. And there is no reason why two issues can't be worked on at the same time. We can try to address underfunded public schools AND protect DEI programs at the same time. A college degree is still the best chance for economic equality.
What a moving piece. Going to show to everyone I know in highschool and their parents.
@taralynnrye You can show it to as many people as you want. They will simply nod their heads, outwardly lament the situation and say how awful it is and then most will ignore everything because they have been brain washed into thinking that where one attends college is much more important than it actually is. Mental health and smart financial decisions too often take a back seat to bragging rights.
For the kids in this piece shooting for places like Yale and Georgetown, not a single one of them needs to pay a dime for college. Scads of "next tier" schools every bit as good as those in the Ivy League Athletics Conference will offer them a boatload of money to attend and offer them a great education and post-grad opportunities. It's just that the parents and brainwashed kids are desperate to say they are attending Yale instead of, say, Syracuse or the University of Miami.
I love how emotionally intelligent these kids are. I was like Nailah, interviewed by Georgetown (I froze/got shy) and was rejected by most of my schools in 2005. I still made it far, as long as you roll with the punches, adapt to obstacles and be kind to yourself, you will make it.❤❤
I'd like to see a piece on how well the admission standards predict academic success for prestigious universities.
This is the best documentary I’ve ever seen in my whole life. So beautiful and very impactful
Agree
Then you’ve watched few documentaries.
I mean it's aight...😂😂😂
@@nwaneri0😂
A bit of a stretch, don’t you think?
When applying you want to have reach schools (Harvard, Yale, Berkley), target schools, and a safety school (something that you have a super high priority of getting into.)
Do you have a pilot's licence? That is a bit much.
Does an Ivy League college have a higher return on investment than a public college? This needs to consider the additional tuition and fees of the Ivy League College.
Are students going to start using AI to write the admissions essays?
Rejection is a big part of life and eventually you are going to encounter it.
You go to the ivy leagues and universities to open yourself up to building your Network of people. The reality is its all about who you Know in this world. Your ability to create opportunities, to Getting jobs and certain positions. What is not talked about is that the relationships you have with people will be greatest factor in tandem with your qualifications into your prospective professional fields. The kids who started the big tech FANG companies found each other on campuses.
The crazy thing about this video is they're applying to these schools as first year students. If the applied as transfer students, the requirements are less stringent
The top private schools seldom take transfers.
And transfer students can show they can handle college level work.
@@edwmac This statement is recklessly inaccurate as certain top privates do in fact accept a critical mass of transfers every year. (E.g., Cornell, Northwestern, Vanderbilt, Notre Dame, Wash U etc.).
@amnrob101 For highly selective schools, the transfer requirements are often more daunting, as a successful applicant normally presents excellent grades/test scores from high school, in addition to strong grades in college. This is coupled with the uncertainty of seat availability for the target class that the applicant is looking to join.
Thank you for making this video, this video has changed my mind about college decisions and the application process as a whole. I’m a 16YR old Sophmore who spent his entire 8th-early 10th grade “career” seriously freaking out on the “what if’s” on what “top” colleges I wanted to attend. It changed my perspective on extracurriculars and made me realize I should be doing extracurriculars because I love them/will help me financially rather than doing them as a stepping stone for college apps. I now focus on what I want my life to be AFTER college rather than what college I will go to.
1) Indian and Chineses student should have been included in this show, to turn it into a truly entertaining reality show.
2) Please follow up with these kids 4 years after graduation, to see where they are. Compare their coworkers and peers and see if the Yale JohnsHopkins blahblah was really necessary. I bet you, wherever they are, that ivy league degree was not really needed.
For point #2, Abby (the girl going to Hopkins) would definitely not end up any differently had she gone to Yale. Hopkins is the place to go for premed and sets you up wonderfully for medicine. To put it in perspective, I was accepted to three Ivy league institutions (Yale, Princeton, and Brown) and chose to go to Hopkins instead since I wanted to go premed.
I liked they named the high school after an important figure in history “ Booker T Washington” amazing
I'm a 3rd generation, 18 year middle school teacher. The most honest parents, I believe, can realistically look at their child's skills and motivation and apply a reasonable level of expectation to where they will be. Many parents confuse the parent's motivation with the child's motivation.
Just looking at the film clip, some of these kids seem very awkward socially - though they may be book smart.
Setting your child up to believe they are an academic genius is setting them up to fail.
In my early years of teaching nearly 18 years ago, I taught a student who was raised to believe she was an academic genius. She was not liked by her peers because she thought so highly of herself. She had a hard time seeing that she was no smarter than the students around her.
She was just raised by her parents to believe she was smarter. So when she didn't meet expectation, it absolutely crushed her. I genuinely felt badly for her. But this happens more often than people think. The world of academia views your child differently than you do. And we won't even get into the world of student loan debt 😢😢.
Juan’s story!!! I hope to see him in office one day! ❤❤❤
Yessir love to see West Point included in here
Public schools should definitely consider economic diversity and support those households that are poor.
Wow, kids in the US have so many good school choices. Mind boggling!
I never felt like this and still got into one of the best public schools in the country. 2*2 is 4 no matter where u go. All doctors don’t go to Yale, Harvard or those other Ivy leagues that does not mean they are not a good doctor.
Just beautiful! Captures so much, from different sides, but the best is to hear the journey of these students, in their own words - so inspiring - so much wisdom and hope.
"it's fine if your dream is to be a loving person"-- this hits so hard.
as a senior who just finished the whole college application process months ago, I've started to realize how crazy it is for all students and parents to invest everything, including time, money, mental stability, and health, just to go into a university with a big name. It's also common that on reddit people will ask which school is more prestigious and like they evaluate the university based on its reputation and prestige. And it's honestly sad that even now I'm saying these, I'm still stuck in this myth of attending an elite university and can't pull myself out of the situation. My entire high school years, what all I can recall now, is long hours of studying, cramming for exams, and staying up till 4 or 5 am; it's funny how I even feel guilty about hanging out with friends on weekends because that means losing few hours of studying. Although I'm glad that my hard work paid off and that I've received offers from several great uni, I wish I could tell my 16 year old self to relieve the stress and savor the time of teenage years.
It appears that Abby's mother may have implanted the notion in Abby's mind that if she fails to secure admission to an Ivy League school, it's due to some type of affirmative action (obsolete) benefiting underrepresented minorities. By mentioning the Jewish name, she might be attempting to divert attention from targeting minorities. It's disheartening to witness parents perpetuate such harmful beliefs, especially considering the fierce competition for Ivy League acceptance. Abby may possess the qualifications for Harvard, but the reality of quotas for incoming freshmen could play a role in her rejection. However, attributing it solely to another student's ethnicity or background oversimplifies a complex admissions process and undermines the achievements and aspirations of all applicants. Stop blaming your child’s rejection on minorities.? I wonder how Abby’s mother would react to learn that a white school mate was accepted and not Abby whose gpa was higher.
That's exactly what their attitude was. Definite racist undertones and a grievance mentally despite astounding advantages.
I picked up on that real quick. If Abby’s mother was so savvy about how the game is played, why didn’t she put her daughter in some sport or some niche activity (squash, fencing, lacrosse, race car driving, sailing, etc.) that the ivies recruit, since they’re so “privileged?”
I guess it’s just easier for these parents to blame those pesky racial/ethnic minorities, for why their Abby’s didn’t get into Yale.
Affirmative action never "benefited" minorities as much as it was a distraction from legacy. Only 1 minority, i.e. black was satisfied with getting a little leg up over others like Jewish people or Asians who make up even smaller fractions than black people. It's sort of this reactive virtue signaling that's holding us back.
You only hear the "community™" complain about legacy because AA was removed. While not 100% right, Abbie's mom does have a point. Abbie is a much smaller minority too.
I can understand Abbie, because that's how I would rationalize to console myself too, otherwise I would end up like the people complaining about losing AA even though it was only an unfair loophole for wealthy African immigrants. Actual marginalized students, especially Native or Hispanic never benefited much from it. This is reflected in both SAT cut-offs prior to the admissions & the *LATEST* graduation rates.
This quota system is no different than the unfair systems that perpetuated segregation. Just because it benefits our most coddled 🍫minority now, doesn't mean it's right. If we made the _complex_ admission process more transparent, objective and accountable instead of leaving it to the whims and fancies of admissions officers, we can reduce all forms of discrimination and complaints.
Thanks for attending my 2 min ted talk :P
@@kimbridge Abbie is religious/ethnic minority too, a much smaller one at that! but I overall agree with your comment.
Would any of you say the same about black people blaming, shaming and gaslighting Asians for losing AA that unfairly benefited them over everyone else?
Bless my luck, i was a committed average student and was very much ok with that. Also, more luck as i have a normal mother who isn't living through me.
abbys mom is insane
She really is.
It’s athletes and Legacies getting advantages, not URMs
Oy Vey!
@@oceansky6207 It's both.
yup. very greedy person.
A brilliant documentary! The messages and lessons learned by the students near the end are valuable for everyone.
I love having kids just to put unreasonable pressure on them to do insane things. Just let the kids do what they want (some of them are, they like the game that the ivies play, and I kind of respect it), but putting pressure on your kids to be something YOU want them to be is wrong in my book.
I graduated 2 year college diploma, 3 year BA, 4 year HBA. Do not go into 4 year program from high school.
Go into a one year or two year certificate or diploma program at good school where credits will transfer. Then think about 3 or 4 year degree.
The 5, 6, and 7 year graduation rates at 4 year degree programs are a joke. To long for single credential.
Finish high school, 2 year diploma max, then assess your situation.
Do not waste your time. Buy books, paper and printer, print everything, go to all class, do all readings the week before. Never drop out, only change programs/ major..
You can do it.. I was last person in my high school likely to do so much.. take leapfrog approach.. one diploma, certificate, degree at a time..
Its a grind, learn to love it.. if you fail that's OK.. I know plenty of people who changed major/ downgraded from degree to 2 year college diploma..
Do it while your young..
People will do anything for a "name." I earned all my degrees online while working full-time. My B.S. is from a private for-profit college, my MBA from a private Catholic university, my M.S. from a public university, and my Ph.D. from a private Christian university. I earned my Ph.D. at 29, which was impressive for someone who did not go straight to college after high school. Today, I am a tenure-track assistant professor at an R2 (high research activity) university.
This video is nice but they should had included Asian American of all background
Why they didn't have a Native American or African American of all backgrounds
What matters most that you live a happy , stress free life. Be the best you can be . Dont be top hard on yourself .. rejection give you better direction ..
As an international student. I wish i watched this on junior year😅 and not worrying about the colege application to much, anyway good documentary and i guess itu would be great that if every senior amd junior highschooler to watch this.
It honestly doesn’t matter where you got the degree all that matters if you can do the job
You go to open up yourself to build up your network of relationships with people. The future professionals who would be in the positions that open the doorway to you. Meritocracy is only one small part of how things really are operating out here in The "open market." Its all about who you know in the end. The kids who started the tech FANG companies found each other on the campuses. What I come across with so many people and the jobs they have, is that the huge deciding factor was who they Knew or know someone that put them on as the Advantage.
@@MijoShrekI agree, networking is everything
Wow, this is the definition of burn-out
It's all about "going the distance", going all the way is what matters. There is no point in burning yourself out, or destroying your long-term health just because you wanted to get into an elite school.
Unfortunately, the things we learn from this piece will not prevent parents and, by extension, their kids from thinking that the only path to success is if the kids attend one of the same 30 or 40 schools. It is mostly about ego -- I got into a "better" college than you did; my kid goes to the "better" college, so my kid is better than your kid, ergo, I was a better parent than you were.
As a college prep and admissions counselor, I can say with confidence that, on balance, it does not really matter where one goes to college (graduate school IS different) in terms of "prestige" and ranking. As I often say to parents, if your kid's got the goods, she's got the goods, whether she attends Columbia or SUNY Albany. No kid should have a "dream" school and I hate that my fellow professionals use that word so readily.
Also, the notion that it has become impossible to get into a "good" college is nonsense. It has become almost impossible to get into just 30 or 40 schools, but there are hundreds of good schools that are not so highly selective and do not require students to give up their sanity and their childhood to gain admission. Half the schools in the awful US News Top 100 schools accept at least half their applicants. When a kid says "my dream school is Harvard," my first question is why? They never have a good answer.
Love this and agree 1000000000%. My wife and I will not allow our 4.0 student to play their US News rankings game. Not with my kid!
Because an Ivy League school on your CV will open doors for the rest of your life!
@@blaiseducdaumont1280 You open your own doors. It’s not where you go, it’s what you do while you’re there.
@@blaiseducdaumont1280It can in very few sectors and very few employers in those sectors, if at all, but even there only up to a point. If an Ivy League grad is changing jobs every 2 or 3 years and has not risen in the ranks anywhere, and this happens a lot, the sheen of the degree will have worn off and opportunities will eventually dry up because they will have been figured out. Honestly, what you said is all in your mind and what you think should be the case,, but it's not reality.
Very well said! As a 40 year old looking back at my high school days being in the same shoes as these kids, I realize the name of the game is not prestige or recognition. It's wisely playing your cards in life. So that you find the most efficient and "least stressful" path to happiness and success. If that means going to a great local uni even though you're a 4.0 student and think you deserve ivy league, and you're still going to have a successful career either way, then so be it. Maximize your talents there and have fun doing it. Everything in between is just distraction to get you to ignore what truly makes you happy regardless of what anyone else thinks about your collegiate status. If only kids can get this perspective early on they'll realize at the end they could still be very successful without all the pressure from parents and peers. And when they get older they'll realize life is only a one time thing and it's about experiences and the moments created along the way.
We need to push Junior College more. There’s nothing wrong with going to Juco for 2 years. It gives the student and parent more time to make a decision and reduces significantly how much they’re going to pay or owe. If I could go back, I’d definitely go to Juco first. Especially since experience is way more important than where you went to school for most professions.
This was an incredible documentary! I really needed this.
The first part of the problem, is what the girl said; when she compared college to the kind of car you drive. The second problem is the parents who think THEIR child is exceptional and DESERVES the best school. Thank God, I didn't have to deal with this. My parents barely glanced at my grades. They knew they'd raised me with the proper values and they assumed I'd do my best in school.
I think my Asian parents are good at this too. They were shocked when I decided to skip college but then they let me do what I want.
Barely glanced at your grades?
Your parents sound negligent, sis....
Im going to west point soon. Definitely a hard application process but I am excited to go.
Watching this made me cry because I am South African and after graduating in high school, I applied to my local unis but also to the 3 uni's in US and I got accepted into Harvard and Yales and to be honest,I only applied to see if they would accept someone like me living in a developing country in Africa and I was shocked when I got emails of acceptance to study as a first year back in 2022.And tbh, If only my parents were able to afford the tuition fees, I would have gone to Harvard University but atleast I attend close to home at the University of Free State in my country doing my second year in Chemical Engineering and having a bursary pay and not my parents. What more could I ask for if my parents don't stress about working extra hours to pay a lot of uni fees. If it was possible, I would give the space I got to study in Harvard and Yale's to these students on this video who didn't get in. But I agree with that quote that where you end up is where you were meant to be. 😇❤
Such a well-executed documentary. Would be interesting to see one about international students.
Go where you are wanted! In the real world you can get beat for your dream job for reasons outside your control. Don’t let not getting in lead you to hatred , bitterness, racism and jealousy. Go where they want you!
I went to a pretty good university. Not an Ivy League but a pretty good one. I regret not having spent more time at a community college. I was lucky because I graduated early and top of my class. The state helped me my first year and a half because of that. I went to community college for a couple of summer sessions. Had I done more during the summers, I would have had less debt. I didn’t graduate with much but still it would have helped. Top universities are great but I don’t think it’s necessary for your first two to 5 semesters. Especially in terms of completing basics… absolutely unnecessary expense. Also, in terms of who ivy leagues are accepting, yes they want high achievers(and legacies and people who can afford the tuition) but they also don’t want cookie cutter students who think they can follow a roadmap to get in.
I hope you aren't referring to any ethnic group when you say, "cookie cutter students." But thanks for sharing your story. I was considering community college for my initial semesters too, but it's way harder to transfer to an Ivy league right? 😅
@@babyamyxo-o6c Everyone seems so preoccupied about race. Cookie cutter meaning, just like in the story, they have all the extracurriculars, the gpa, the experience saving the planet, the charity work… that is not exceptional when everyone is trying to do the most in those areas in the same sort of ways. No it’s not way harder to transfer compared to getting accepted as a first year. At least that is my opinion. I have known people to transfer to one of the Trinity and a few others like Stanford Brown and Wharton.
@@angelinimartini I think it comes to why they do it and how well they do it too. Like you said, if everyone is doing all of them at the same level just to tick off boxes, no one stands out.
From what I've heard top schools don't take many transfers but it's nice to know there are a few who've managed it.
@@angelinimartini Btw, I'm far from being preoccupied about race. But I've seen people who pledge solidarity and boast their race lead the civil rights movements use that as an insult towards another minority without any push back. I'm sure you understand what I mean. Sorry for the rant, but it's the hypocrisy that gets me.
@@babyamyxo-o6c I’m half indigenous. Be a little weird for me to go that direction. Know what I mean? Especially when no matter how well students of color did before, people would say they would get accepted because of affirmative action. lol someone, just once, said stuff like that to me but not about me… I get it but if you’re not qualified you’re not getting in. If I didn’t have the grades I did, I wouldn’t have even been able to even afford university. Universities are so competitive 😩 I feel for students more and more.
Thank you this was really helpful and was a great production.
this is actually dystopian
It doesn't hurt to attend an Ivy college. However, success is NOT tied to where they go to college.
So many ways leading to your dreamland, which might be very different from where you originally aim for.
Jordan Peterson questioned whether harvard is a university of a hedge fund... i think the same could be said of many universities
good documentary!
great ambitions and expectations will always have some disappointments; that is life
least, they have some directions in life and striving hard to achieve
brave on!
I feel so heartbroken for abbey she really is mature for her response I hope she knows all of us watching her support her even without the acceptance into Yale you’re still a wonderful person and a strong student
It is ironic how much students stress out about getting into a specific college when the real challenge should be finding a good first job.... (and this is coming from someone who recently completed both processes). Where you go to college matters much less than the skills you develop. By 4 years within your career, no one really cares unless you are going into academia...
The corporate world is when they'll realize the majority of what mattered to them the last 4 years no longer matters. Now the hiring manager can reject your resume just because you went to a rival university 🤷🏾♀️
This video makes me so sad, honestly. I definitely back the statement that in most fields of work, it doesn’t matter that much where you got your degree. I can also confirm that people you meet outside of the work setting won’t care either.
I went to a top 25 school, but I really didn’t need it to get the position I wanted. A large portion of my acquaintances don’t even know where I went to school.
At the end its almost a lotery because university have a max of seat
Good work with this incridible video,which enables us to get more details on how does the admission work. And this is also inspiring for me to study harder. Thanks a lot sincerely
Can we have more seris of this content,just love it so much
No Asian or Indian students in the representation?
I feel bad for Abbie because of her mom. If you have such a poor attitude towards unrepresented and under-represented minorities, or that the Univ is 'idiots' to not accept your child, you need a reality check and maybe let go of your ego. Ps: it may also be hurting your child.
Congratulations to all who got to a school - you will be ok in life irrespective of where you land.
Teach your kids to be happy and be good citizens, and take care of each other. In the end, that is all that matters.
Her mom def brings pain to her situation
Stress is extremely bad for people's physical health.
These high schoolers need to understand that either going to or not going to a top university like an ivy league does NOT determine if your life is “complete” or if your life is “ruined”
It’s absolutely horrible and sad that these kids now are being convinced that this determines who they’re going to be. As if you don’t go to the Harvard’s, Stanford’s Yale’s of the word then you’re a “nobody” or something to that effect.
Also these tip top grades that you get in high school, putting the insane amount of time into all the AP, IB extra curriculars, etc in order to do that is just not worth it. The other sad thing is once you get into these schools you will not be getting straight A’s. College is a whole different beast and it’s not just ivy league, it’s any university. Not to mention, it’s just not worth the insane amount of money. The pathway of 2 years at a community college and 2 years at a university should be put out there WAY more.
That’s just how I feel, interested to hear what people think.
so damn true tbh
Your dream school should be a local community college. Get that 2 year degree and transfer. Your wallet will thank you. There is no room for student loans in anyone's sane mind
This is crazy. Its sad too. My brother made strait As since kindergarten. When he graduated in early 2000s, he had offers all over Harvard , Yale, and etc. He choose local State College. In the end doesn't matter in the job market. If your going for Medical it matters for you to have and use the knowledge. Law it comes down to how good you can argue and persuade. I'm a life learner. I will tell you there is so much a person can do and learn that I really wish these kids would learn to appreciate life and enjoy living.
I’m simply horrified by the fact that they have to pay for the entrance exams, let alone the high price of the colleges!
🙏🏼Thank you for making this film 🙏🏼
This year was also my graduating year. I applied to 17 schools and got rejected from every one except for one, but got a transfer offer at a good school.
Bottom line is it wasn’t worth the anxiety and OCD I went through. We all know how meritoess this process is.
I see some of these kids are just not academically inclined - and yet they are applying to Yale and Harvard! Sean definitely strikes me as highly intelligent and motivated, and he belongs at Yale.
Fantastic documentary