The Greatest WW2 Board Game, Ever - Undaunted: Stalingrad Review
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 ก.ย. 2024
- Support the Show: bit.ly/Support...
Buy This Game: bit.ly/Undaunt...
In US: bit.ly/UnStUS In UK: bit.ly/4b3jnQR In CA: bit.ly/UnStCA
Visit SU&SD for more cardboard antics: www.shutupandsi...
~FOLLOW US AROUND, WHY DON'T YOU~
Podcast: anchor.fm/susd
Twitter: / shutupshow
Instagram: / shut.up.and.sit.down
Twitch: / shutupandsitdown
TikTok: / shutupshow
Wow. We are humbled. Thank you to Shut Up & Sit Down for taking the time to Play Undaunted: Stalingrad. It's our proudest achievement and we are so excited to share it with the world.
This amazes me how SUSD got so big that studios are dropping in to say "thanks".
I'm sure SUSD would be happy to take the time to review Undaunted: Vietnam in the future, hint hint 😉😉
The game looks so simple. You sure you need manuals? 😂
@@onebigadvocado6376 lol. I was thinking another campaign/legacy game set in the Pacific, but hitting up another war would be a good change too.
Oh, please do the Pacific. That would be great to see. There were so many cool battles, and you could go nuts with the ships!
I feel like the issue that you can misjudge a scenario and blunder into a complete fuck-up fits right into a WW2 tactics game.
FUBAR game mechanism.
Quinn just has standard something to complain about with war games. I actually don't think he would recognize intentional mechanics if he saw them, if he felt slightly bad about playing them. He's too critical.
Yeah, but this is not a simulation game, it's a light-hearted gateway-ish game, so a little more visual cue would be appreciated.
A game like this where you get to set and make the area you fight in would be really good. Setting down tiles to try to make your mission easier, or block the enemy, that would make this incredibly fun.
There's no reason you can't simply make up your own rules for doing so, don't let their rules limit your play!
The realism in that pan hit... Movie quality
So Quinns, I have to ask a question here, when you reviewed the second pandemic legacy game you mentioned that the added details they inserted into characters actually took away from the story itself because it didn't allow you to develop your own narrative. Would them adding in more detail have actually improved the connection or would it have done what it did in pandemic legacy 2?
I'm watching this with a new set of earbuds and I appreciate the stereo separation of the sound effects.
An Undaunted review? Who could ask for more?
Ok, ok. You got me this time. I laughed out loud with the sauce pan part.. 🤣
Its cool that quinns has also played valkheryia chronicles
That skillet thwack was surprisingly meaty...
I usually am not a fan of English humor, but this had so many great subtle jokes. I might get this game!
I think the reason the city is drab and featureless as you play is cause there really wasn't much of a city *left* by the end of the campaign. You know, from all the fighting and explosions.
The city gets destroyed as you play, it could have been better looking before destruction.
Advanced Squad Leader is the greatest WW2 game ever - no competition.
Yes.
Ooooh look at all those Free League RPGs in the background! Into the Odd, Alien, Vaesen!!!
If Undaunted makes another game, it needs to be either Okinawa or Monte Cassino
Quinns giving off huge Alton Brown vibes in this video
Weird how this isn’t a review for War Room. Considering you’re talking about the best WWII board game.
You do not have to make me want to buy every single game you review, you know that, do you?
I liked the review very much, but I would like to address the personalization issue brought up. After watching Storytellers "What Makes A Film Truly Anti-War" it sensitivized me to the issue that no matter the tragedy shown, there is still a big draw to the army, because heroism and adventure have a very attracting effect. And by not putting too much emphasis to that I feel it is more of a positive than a negative for Undaunted.
The GREATEST World War II game? But you didn't even mention Mark Herman's Empire of the Sun (now 4th printing).
I want to know more about Sad Steven
Tom seems to be the only one frequently working with everyone else on the team these days. Is that ambition, or just being the bottom-rung intern of the group?
There's actually just 3 Tom's. They cloned him so they only have to pay him 33% of a wage per video
@@Gametastica I thought he was an android.
WE NEEEEED MORE AVA 🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
This looks like an incredible game that I'll never play. :( My friends don't like WW2 games.
Where do you guys even store all your game boxes living in an apartment lol, is one room just wall to wall boardgames?
nothing beats axis and allies
I thought you reviewed this already.
I consume to much of your content ;)
What about company of heroes board game? Some people say that's the best world war II game
Hey! One of the play testers here. Love the review. It was really good to hear you loved no stickers and no damage to components due to the campaign mode - this was something a number of the play testers advocated for and was adopted!
Thank you for your effort. Nicely done
This is huge. I sigh in frustration every time I hear that a new game is "legacy" as a developing country player because games here are so expensive that you can't afford a game that you can't resell. Thanks for thinking about your fellow players!
@@caiofernandoI think it’s relevant to say the reviews ones say the campaign involves no damage/stickers etc. so you can replay it or sell it. It’s not one play and done
Ooh yes, love this! I do enjoy permanently altering my board game pieces, RPG books etc because I love making things mine and having a unique experience out of it with physical marks to show, but it's nice not to make that the default experience. I sometimes prefer the inverse, especially if it's an expensive game it can feel _so_ wrong to permanently devalue it!!
Does anyone else agree that the pan hit edit was way better than it had any right to be...
I had to watch it a few times in slow mo.. Was a great scene
I nearly called the police. #teamTom
Hahaha yessss. I watched it numerous times before even stumbling onto this comment. They really sold the hit and fall!
That is probably the funniest thing I’ve ever seen in a SUSD video, just a flawless joke and execution in every way
😂that was perfect!
Quinns shouting out Valkyria Chronicles made me so much happier than it had any right to.
Best WW2 game of all time lol
Indeed. I was privileged to be working at Sega when it was released, and I thought it was brilliant.
Kinda like that game is much better than it has any right to be.
Valkyria Chronicles is great but uh, is that how British people pronunce valkyria? Not trying to be mean I just think it's funny
if undaunted stalingrad had anime art for the soldiers THEN it would be the best WW2 game of all time
The criticism if the game sounds a bit like it did too god a job representing the theme; an ugly battlefield, nameless soldiers that at best gets rewarded with propaganda photoshoot, commanders who don't care about individual soldiers, a field where you fight over broken buildings and so on. A bit like U-boot where the theme is really well done, but also a bit of an issue.
Totally agree.
If you didn't get a photoshoot as a reward, you got a piece of metal on some ribbon.
Maybe through playing the game (or watching the review) some may be inclined to read a little about what went on during the battle of Stalingrad and the wider Eastern front.
Yeah and complaining about not understanding the flow of a battle (the examples he made) is a bit weak too
I rather the players to give their veterans nicknames based on the emergent game play on their table, but I agree with upgrading the art beyond just a simple pose change.
Also, not knowing whether the building you turned to rubble today will be tactically more useful to you intact tomorrow, sounds very Stalingrad.
What Quins wants is Undaunted: Warhammer 40k
Undaunted: 40K sounds very appealing actually...
That does sound kind of amazing.
Well their next game is Undaunted in space, so maybe that'll be it.
I love your videos, the reviews are so good, because we don't just get the insight on how the game plays, we also find out how you felt during it, what were your thoughts on it throughout the playthroughs, not just after it. It shows us not only if we will like how the game plays, but how it will feel to play the game, captures that thing that I thought you could only get by playing the game on your own. And it also has entertainment value because of the narrative you put into it, you know when your friend talks so passionately about something, and you get excited as a result, that's the feeling I get from watching this video, truly a masterpiece, I will be buying this game for sure, and looking forward to more videos from SU&SD!
Personal characterization is a great recommendation. I hope they are able to do that and maybe revise some of those less interesting scenarios in a second edition.
“A heavily armed baby who’s also a n@zi” I’m dead.
This was a good one. Cracked me up too.
Although it's maybe considered more wargame than boardgame, if you're going to start throwing around phrases like "greatest WW2 board game ever", you can't leave Advanced Squad Leader out of the conversation. More like WWII dungeon master vs. dungeon master than a regular board game (with a rulebook that comes in a binder), the narratives evoked by the super-intricate rule system and scenarios is unprecedented. Tanks can burst aflame, then spread to other locations to provide much-needed cover through smoke (assuming the wind doesn't change direction); a heavily fortified building can finally be breached by a demolition charge to let flamethrowers in, where cover provides no benefit; nighttime rules cause your units to potentially fire on themselves (especially if they are using a captured gun); a hero can come from a seemingly desperate situation and go Rambo on the enemy, carrying a machine gun through firelanes with barely a scratch; sewers and caves provide a way for you to pop up underneath the enemy or make a quick escape (if you don't get lost). Every map is like a puzzle with trying to figure out how best to use the environment while considering sightlines, guessing where your opponent placed their units, placing your leader with a radio in the best position to call in artillery, and having to make daring maneuvers lest you run out of time by trying to be too defensive.
If you ever need a teacher I guess I could fly out there to help :)
Not to start an only tangentially-related discussion, but isn't Combat Commander supposed to be sort of a "new version" of ASL? (If it is, then mentioning Combat Commander would also cover ASL, to some extent at least.)
Which game is as you so thoroughly describe? 🤔
@@CareyMcDuff There are some ideas that Combat Commander takes from ASL (well, that have kind of become standard in many wargames as a result of ASL), I believe the designer said it was a big influence (as was a card game called Up Front!), and they cover quite similar subject area (squad based infantry combat from platoon scale up to company scale, though ASL does go a bit larger). However, it is quite a different beast.
Combat Commander is complex for most people's idea of a boardgame, but for a *wargame* it is actually quite streamlined, while ASL is *very* complex. A large part of the gameplay in Combat Commander comes from the hand management mechanics, which simulates a lot of the "friction" of command abstractly, not allowing you to do many things unless you have the correct card, and information is limited to players by not knowing what they will draw or what their opponent has. ASL instead tends to allow the player to have total information and the ability to *try* to do anything, but then simulates the difficulties more mechanically with requirements to roll dice and/or applying modifiers and the like. Also, Combat Commander doesn't *really* do vehicles (there are some in a couple of the expansions, but they are a bodge), the system is solely focussed on infantry combat..
Basically, a lot of dedicated ASL players don't like Combat Commander. They think it is too random and abstract, maybe even a little silly, it doesn't have the scope that ASL does, and it doesn't have tanks! However, while I love Combat Commander, I took one look at the ASL 'rulebook' (actually a binder the inside of which is literally covered with tables, dividers which are covered in tables, and pages that are full of abbreviations and cross references) and just went "Welp, no, not for me." I wouldn't ever imagine trying to introduce a non-wargamer to ASL, while Combat Commander I have taught non-wargamers to play.
@@triangulan Thanks! Very interesting; I hadn't heard these details before.
It has a ww2 flavor, not a wargame is a card game were you work with probabilities.
Regarding the t34 mod 1942, it was my idea during testing. It was the only way to fit the stats of the testing sample. I suggested changing them to fit more interesting vehicles but it was too late for that. The original plan was to have the t34-85 but I warned them of the date of service of that vehicle (1944) way past the stalingrad battle.
If it helps, tanks played a really small role in Stalingrad. It was all about the infantry.
I don't think he's calling out the models, he's just saying they should have nicknames and a bit more personality to them as they crop up again and again as characters in the game.
I'm happy with them using the model number or variation. Guess you could have included unique art or decals to the vehicles to give them some personality?
For all anyone cared, you could have named them "Marie, Bertha and Konstantina", with a small id somewhere so people who actually cared could know you chose the t34 that was specifically there that day when the fifth battallion or whatever.
Soldiers gave tanks names for a reason. Because it made them feel for them and because soldiers are people.
I agree there must be accuracy, but not in the way of enjoyment and emotional investment.
@@JuanCLeal I agree. However, I think Stalingrad in particular is probably not the best scenario to develop attachments to anyone or anything: the shelf life of men and vehicles was very short. As an aside, there's a guy over at BoardGameGeek who claims he is Russian and is upset that Osprey got every detail wrong: the Red Army uniforms are wrong for the period and the names are also wrong (a woman sniper has a man's nickname, for example). He is upset because he claims Osprey, which specializes in military history, should know better 🤷🏻♂️
So Quinns' biggest complaint is that this war campaign works like actual war? Situations can be unbalanced. Your best laid plans can prove entirely ineffective. And you don't know if the decision you make today is going to screw you tomorrow... Sounds about right.
Don't get me wrong, I understand that games aren't real life and are supposed to be fun. But on some level, you have to ask how much you should obfuscate the realities of war in the name of fun in a war simulation.
Other than the fact that he didn't feel emotionally connected to the characters, so a horror of war that they missed the trick on, I'm not sure any of his other criticisms are really fair *if* you take the game on its own terms. It can be hard, and gutting, and unfair... Because being a commander in the battle of Stalingrad could be hard, and gutting, and unfair. And the alternative is to handwave that in the same kind of cringey way that the guys complain about games handwaving the horrors of colonialism and slavery in the name of fun.
Have either of you played Conflict of Heroes, or ASL? Not to be that guy but, You should at least play scenario one of CoH, and ASL Starter Pack 1, before you call a WWII game "The Greatest." That would be like calling The Beatles the "greatest" rock 'n' roll act ever, and never having heard Little Richard.
Finally someone Mentions Advanced Squad Leader which IS the BEST wargame simulation of WWII
Cause it actually recognizes that WWII was a WORLD war Not just Yanks and Germans and occasionally the Soviets
Every single nation that fought in WWII gets recognised along with their own equipment
Nothing else comes close
Combat Commander is pretty awesome. I'd love to see a review of that
For the record, Q, tanks inside the city of Stalingrad actually weren’t very useful. So it makes sense that they’d be underpowered in the game mechanics.
It was because the city had been reduced to rubble before the Germans reached it. The streets were nearly impossible to traverse quickly and every pile of rubble or corner could conceal an infantryman with a Molotov cocktail or a grenade to disable it at least or destroy it at best. It was more than any other battle on the Eastern Front an infantry battle.
The real tank battle took place on the Steppe west of the city where the Soviets encircled the German 6th army.
Which in turn led to the Germans developing stronger self-propelled guns such as the Brümbär and Sturm Tiger.
The utility of armored vehicles in Stalingrad is debated. The rubble certainly didn't help though.
They can push the rubble no? I mean they drove hundreds of miles, sitting in a tank has gotta be better than freezing outside
@@ximbabwe0228Tanks work well in space where they can move around quickly. The rubble and the limited site lines negated that advantage. Also, the turrets aren't designed to shoot up. Many of the buildings of Stalingrad were made of reinforced concrete, and still stood even after being bombed. So when the tanks came into the city, they could sometimes be ambushed from above.
Tanks even in the modern era do not do well in cities. They are just too vulnerable. In Chechnya the rebels easily destroyed Russian tanks for example sometime with nothing more than gasoline and blankets. In Ukraine the Russians have pretty much given up on tanks and switched to using artillery because tanks just aren't viable when Anti tank weapons are so much more cost effective.
Now that I know we are getting aircraft in the next Undaunted….I really want a Naval one. This game is great.
Very excited for this one, which actually makes me wonder what their next game Battle for Britain is going to change things up, since they are evidently not carrying the campaign system forward with that entry.
And there's always the much speculated, possible Pacific front to carry the next iteration of the campaign system. (I would love to see an island hopping thing for that if it ever gets made)
If we are going for another game in the series with a more narrative feel to it I would love something like the Battle of Shanghai. It would be interesting since you can have things like giving access to suicide bombers for the Chinese after playing with the same soldiers for a bit, and then giving you the option to just permanently remove them from the campaign in exchange for removing a tankette. For those who just want something new to play with you can give the Japanese chemical weapons though that may be a bit too grim for most. It would give them more time to refine planes too before a Pacific Campaign which would probably have carriers in some way. That and its a great way to shed some light on another part of the war.
You know that claiming this as the best WWII game ever is going to summon all the old GMT/AH gamers. And you will deserve that.
Lol I immediately thought of all the great ww2 wargames out there. But I know he doesn't play those so I'll let it slide.
Yeah, saying it's 'even better' than Memoir '44 is a big tip off they haven't played too many war games. M'44 is a fun game but isn't even close to a war game.
The claim is so absurd at so many levels that it's not worth the effort.
Honestly, the cons Quinns lists are basically pros for me - I'll gladly sacrifice balance for more variability, and lopsided scenarios where things resolve in a completely unexpected fashion sound pretty fun. What I *would* consider a flaw would be if the scenarios get unbalanced in such a way that one side gets a permanent disadvantage though, so I hope the game doesn't suffer from that problem.... otherwise, bring on the chaos! :)
Permanent disadvantage can be easily solved by a handicap system or some houseruling. What Quinns describes worries me more - almost sounds like this game is a programming game where you need to think all your moves for the whole game, and if you make a mistake you lose pitifully
Quinns' cons mostly sound like a war campaign simulation being an accurate war campaign simulation. Taking the game on its own terms, the only one that seems fair is complaining about not getting emotionally attached to your soldiers. Because that would have been just another terrible thing about war for them to visit upon you.
@@mydemon In No Pun Included's review they made the point that you can always just resign from a scenario if you have no chance, thus saving the lives of your men for when they might actually make a difference.
The problem with Stalingrad re: characterization is that life expectancy of soldiers was really short, especially green troops. As for tanks, I know you know T-34, KV-1, Stug III, are all the real names and cannot be fancied up. But if it's any consolation, tanks played a really small role in Stalingrad, at least the city fight proper: too much rubble and ambush spots made them unwieldy.
Ugh, have Normandy and it still remains unplayed. None of my regular BG’rs are into war games or straight PvP stuff.
Guess I’ll have to see if one of the dogs will play…🤔
I’ve heard about this game on the podcast so much, but was still unsure on investing in it. Thank you so much for writing this review!
Great review of why each of you loved / were disappointed ! Looks like a really thoughtful storage system for packing in the box, something many games don’t consider. Also non destructive campaign pieces are a welcome change though there is something visceral to how the pandemic legacy board morphs over time.
Quinns: "'Cause this is the internet, and you have the attention span of a stoat..."
Me: "Ooh! What's a stoat?" *pauses video* *googles stoat* "Neat! What was I doing?"
Greatest WW2 board game, ever? I wish you played more of those before making such a bold statement. There are tons and tons of excellent WWII war games, some of them so good that they're used in military academies. I think you'd find it interesting to take a period of time at SU&SD to delve into wargames, just like you did with classic abstract or classic card games by reviewing Go, Chess and Cribbage. Modern wargames have been around for longer than modern euros and there's a lot to explore. I'd love to see you review EastFront, Combat Commander, Conflict of Heroes, Atlantic Chase, Lock 'n Load Tactical, Triumph & Tragedy, Poland Defiant, A Victory Lost, or even classics such as ASL, Axis & Allies, etc.
Beautiful review guys! Well-crafted analysis, clearly explained criticism, with endearing humor. Now, is it as good as Matt as a Dune Worm scurrying away from Quinns? Of course not, but what is : )
Yeah, I'm with Tom - despite never having played any Undaunted. Quinns killing field example reads like a feature rather than a bug. That feels totally immersive and very much like real life.
Idk it does seem like a problem if you spent 45 minutes trying to optimize your kit beforehand. Same reason I stopped playing warhammer
@@wishesandfishes but that’s how war is
@@crowwick7652but its not war, its a game thats supposed to be fun, and that really doesnt sound fun. I guess its the debate of Accuracy vs Playability
@@christopherfloody5555 I play some games for fun and sometimes I play games because I enjoy being challenged.
World at War ( the follow up of Advanced Third Reich) is probably the best WW2 out there. Yes the manual has hundreds of pages, yes all the players need to read it, yup you are gonna need a big ass room with a big ass table occupied for several weeks \ months dedicated to the game... Still nothing comes even close to the realism, the level of detail, the tech tree, diplomacy....it's just great!
P.s= I have never played the game been reviewd in this video, not I've seen the video yet...it's just my opinion about " WaW \\ A3R " being numero 1... maybe in 20min I think otherwise!
I really do not like overly complicated wargames. You can talk about realism but at the end of the day it's still just cardboard and paper abstraction. The games played by the DoD to analyze actual potential conflicts aren't nearly as complicated. Nothing wrong with enjoying them of course, but I personally wouldn't vote for World at War as the greatest ww2 game. Simpler, more elegant titles such as Stalingrad '42 are much better in my opinion.
Greatest wargame ever screams the actual number of "wargames" played. Going balls to the wall all in about how great it is - to the very end almost 180 degrees - enjoyable on occasion but utterly predictable.
I personally love Empire of the Sun, it's one of the best games I've played. The big problem with it is the rules overhead. If you can get past that, it's amazing.
"...I don't know why people wear them..." 🤣 great job, thank you for taking the time!!!
Theres no debate the core system of Undaunted is genius. But games like this live and die on their scenario design so those critisms have me hesitant to pick this up.
I found North Africa scenarios really hit and miss The opening scenario for instance both sides could take multiple strategic approaches and would be forced to make tactical adjustments as they suffer casualties. Sometimes when left unable to win being forced to play for the initiative tie-break. I thought this was brilliant.
Then there were scenarios were as one side you basically had to nothing besides let the enemy come to you. The game was decided by how many long range pop shots looking for lucky 10s paid off. This way my last experience with game and left a bit of a bitter taste in my mouth.
The Greatest WW2 Board Game!!!.. for people who can't understand Virgin Queen.
Listening to Tom’s comments, I’d recommend he try Combat Commander: Europe. It has the excellent gameplay with lots of ‘twists’ due to random events. It’s possible to lose due to a poor set up / plan as Quinn notes here, but that is part of the challenge in both games. You have to focus on HOW to specifically win EACH particular scenario.
Please don't call Soviet soldiers "Russians". In the Stalingrad battle and on the Eastern front all the nations occupied by Russians took part. They suffered no less, had not fewer casualties and made no less contribution to Nazi Germany's elimination.
Agreed.
I've added a similar comment to people arguing about playing as Nazi's. You're not playing as Nazi's, your playing as Germans (or Nazi German)y and their axis partners.
@@jonkilner8816 No, you're playing as Nazis. That doesn't mean everyone in the Wehrmacht at the time was a zealous fascist, but they did, factually, fight for the Nazis, which makes them Nazis; that's their material position. It's more important to counteract the myth of the so-called "clean Wehrmacht" than it is to go "not all Wehrmacht", especially today.
@@shaleyaregenherz so by following your logic, if I pick the other side, I'm choosing to play as Communists?
Fighting for Nazi Germany didn't make you a Nazi. Just as much as fighting for the Soviet's didn't make you a Communist.The postwar denazification process didn't automatically classify membership of the Wehrmacht as counting towards being a Nazi.
None of my comments have perpetrated the clean Wehrmacht myth. The purpose of my comments is to correct people's views that Nazi/German/Wehrmacht/Heeres etc are one and the same thing. They're not. By calling every German a Nazi in the third Reich period over simplifies what you're trying emphasis in your comments.
Wait - are you sure you want the game to make you care for your soldiers in a battle where pretty much every German soldier is guaranteed to end up dead or in a prison camp where most of them end up dead, and most of the Soviet soldiers end up dead too? :P
Just for reference - in Enemy at the Gates (the book, not the Hollywood movie), Zaitsev's lover actually thought he died and learned he survived and married another woman only when she was interviewed by the author.
And the actual main viewpoint survivor was actually a German soldier who was captured at Stalingrad and was one of the few to make it back home to his wife - and in the ending passage of the book realizes that "in their nine years of marriage, this was just their fifth day together as man and wife".
Combat Commander is actually REALLY good. And it is a heavy game, but if you play lots of board games you can totally learn it, I swear.
I think the elegance of the system makes the game feel lighter than it actually is. Also, best rulebook ever written, IMO.
CC is the best. Also, I'm not sure the image they showed was CC. The art is different and there seems to be tank. Great War Commander maybe?
@@nebulon82 That photo threw me off, too. I think you are correct.
@@nebulon82 it’s Combat Commander battle pack Fall of the West with special tank counters from the C3i magazine. The tanks in the Battle pack are multiple counters.
Fantastic review that tells me everything I need to know about the game.
I have Undaunted Normandy, and think that more undaunted is for me.
I love the idea of a bigger campaign.
I'm a lot less sold on the permanent losses, building collapses and unit upgrades.
It seems like a lot of fiddly admin that isn't fighting over Stalingrad.
I want to be an infantry officer, not the corporal at te logistics section.
I know it's "realism" and understand that the German 6th army collapsed though failing logistics.
Starve or surrender (and starve).
Of course the campaign aspects are optional, and I'm sure I'll enjoy playing individual battles.
"- I want the light to be gone from their eyes".
Best line in the review ♡
Great review! For someone who has never played undaunted, should i start with this one? Or grab a copy of Normandy?:)
The unique personalization you're looking for can be found in IELLO's game- Heroes of Normandie...
I mean, it is an interesting game. But calling it the greatest ww2 boardgame of all time is a bit... I mean, how many ww2 boardgames are there? At SUSD you don't particularly enjoy war themed wargames (fantasy themed is another matter). I mean, even without going to monsters like World in Flames, how about Kursk:Tigers are Burning from C3i and RBM studios? Or how about Battle for Moscow as printed in C3i no 25 that you can get as a print and play? How about Empire of the Sun? Have you played Empire of the Sun? It is phenomenal. Sure it covers only the pacific theatre but what a game! Keeping it to squad based games, you have Advanced Squad Leader. There are people who ONLY play ASL. There is a reason for that. What About Panzer? That is another cracking wargame that throws you into the deep end and makes you question what you are doing with your life...
Fields of Fire
Band of Brothers
Patrol (best scouting mechanics probably)
Combat commander...
You get the point. The list is so extensive... And then you get to Operation level games and strategic level games... I mean, you would enjoy Cataclysm: A Second World War. Brilliant game. No Retrat is the Russian front simulation to beat... Churchill... Churchill is just politics and it is amazing. You would enjoy that I believe. Together with the afore mentioned desígns by Mark Herman and Beevor, you have so much to choose from... How can you call this the greatest ww2 boardgame of all time?
I'm not sure if I agree with your criticism of how they should have added quirks and nicknames to the soldiers and tanks. I think leaving that stuff blank leaves much more open to the imagination, which in a game as long as this, really helps drive it and create more of a dynamic narrative with the players. By simply playing the game I can imagine the quirks and difference in my soldiers from how the game pans out and by my using each soldier differently, and depending on the actions I make my tanks do and the outcome of those actions, it can be fun to come up with nicknames for them myself. Perhaps the Mod makes a massive move so internally I call it "Big Daddy" or something and another tank seems to, just by chance, miss every shot, earning its nickname as "the wiffer".
If the game were to have all these pre-written in, it pigeon-holes the amount of imagination players have with each soldier and tank, which I think would make for a far less interesting 15 game+ campaign.
ASL, is the greatest WWII board-game ever maybe something else could be 2nd.
Found a brief sale by a Walmart affiliate for $68 and I hit that buy button quicker than a Jeopardy buzzer. It's on its way!
Damn. Now I have to add ANOTHER game to my Xas list! Thanks Quinns!
How amazing would an Undaunted: Fire Emblem game be?
This gets the coveted "Best Eva reference in a non-anime-related video" award, an award I haven't given out since Hbomberguy's Sherlock video.
Game sounds too expansive for me. Love Undaunted: Normandy/North Africa
I am really glad, that tanks are calld KV-1, T-34 and soldiers do not get cringy nicknames. That would be beyond terrible
I got this game after playing a demo at Spiel (most terrific people of the con) and now we are 5 scenario in. We are hooked! It is incredibly fun and tense so far. I think Quinns and Tom should do a rematch (see if this changes the critique of QuinnS). Or Matt and Eva should play it and do pod discussion on it too. The people (me) demand it!
Note to self: take candy from a heavily armoured natzsi baby before playing to compare game to this...
please please please do a longplay sometime with tom it would be legendary
That was fun. It's nice when you can get different viewpoints and the reasons behind them.
Amazing timing for this review, I’ve been binging your old stuff and watching eastern front documentaries in the past week!
If this stuff is what you're into I would recommend the podcast Hardcore History: Ghosts of the Ostfront
"Greatest combat system in all of games".What, rolling dice? Undaunted is solid but the praise Tom gives it is wayyy overboard IMO. Doesn't like Spirit Island or Dominion but this is one of the greatest modern board games? Ok lol
He likes Spirit Island.
Awesome to hear Combat Commander (the best wargame ever made) gets a shout out from Quinns! Bravo! 🙌
what do you love about it?
"my zoomer co-worker describes to me as my German Lore" looooool best line by far
4:30 I liked it when quinns turned into a Miyazaki toad.
6:08 Pavlov's House! I do hope someone remembered to feed his dog...
God, the art on the Soviet cards is absolutely cursed. There's so much wrong with the uniforms, you don't know where to start; a horrid jumble of elements from different periods, and stuff you won't ever see in Soviet uniforms. Random stuff that looks 'kinda right' slapped together. That's the AI art level of accuracy. The names are 100% randomly assembled ('Mishka' as a woman's name? The creators of the game clearly stopped somewhere around Red Alert in their research). And I don't know what the hell they mean by T-34 vs T-34-76-MOD.
Zero respect for the subject matter, and it clearly shows that the inclusion of people who aren't white dudes in the cards is pure tokenism.
Excellent review once again - the duo action of Quinns and Tom is just wonderfully enterntaining!!
This review had beautiful flow! Liked it very much.
But I am always wondering why you never mention Clank Legacy when it comes to Legacy games. It is the best one I have seen so far. And I loved the deckbuilding so much! It felt so personal.
Love you guys! My favorite WW2 game of all time is World in Flames, but it's so hard to get played these days and takes months to finish!
Have you heard about World at War or Advanced Third Reich? They all are at the same level of detail and complexity! World in Flames is great too but IMHO WaW was the real deal.
@@fedecano7362 I owned Advanced Third Reich but never got it to the table and it got lost in a move. No experience with WaW.
Throughout this review, I kept going to hit the "like" button, only to realise (for the 8th time) that I had already liked it! Love the content and review all round! Shall be adding this to my wish list.
I would pay in gold to see Undaunted: Battle of Helm's Deep
I love Quinns and the SUSD, and I'm delighted that overall they loved this.
But I feel like there's a little inconsistency in his critique in wanting a campaign that feels engrossing, gritty and narrative-driven whilst also wanting a game that's finely balanced from start to finish.
I'm very much with Tom on this: I'm approaching our campaign not caring if I win or lose, just looking to have an evocative experience, and I'm having a blast.
Pre-ordered as soon as it was available. Can't go wrong with David Thompson and Trevor Benjamin!!! Congrats to both!! :)
Im confused. Undaunted Normandy had 12 missions. Are they saying the campaing in that huge expensive box has 15 missions?
It has more, a campaign is 15 missions but depending on how they go you play different missions in each campaign
@@scotthaggerty7755 interesting. You know how many missions it has?
Weeell in the mission book he was flipping through map layouts labelled like "#52" so I'd assume at leastthat many. Don't know if they're all *super* distinct or if it's just like "same map as #43 but different starting conditions"
It IS true that I too still remember the name of the tank in Valkyrie Chronicles
Combat Commander is the source. Top shelf game👌 Do it!
Quinns clearly hasn't played enough WWII board games.
How many times did you try hitting Tom on the back of the head before you realised he would not be able to react?