I wouldn't say that Saint Barbara cathedral is "just a church". It's simply stunning and more impressive than Notre Dame in Paris (visited both in person).
The older I get, the less free time I have, and the more I'm glad I have TH-cam videos to go over board games to see if I'd even like the concept before buying. FLGSs have so many games that it's overwhelming
Good review, even if I disagree with parts of it, I think it was well reasoned. The St Barbara action is interesting, I do think it fits in the game, especially since more than once the tiles are flipped by other actions without benefit to the player, so the decision of when to use it is very situational and adds intrigue. I agree that the mining in general should be more consequential. It should't take over but I'd love it to be a bit more powerful. Regarding the how the sliders and the cards (population) works, I like it that way because it adds randomness, as real life often does so it also adds intrigue to the gameplay. I played this two player and I liked it a lot. It's not the best player count but to me it really works well. Reinforced by the fact that the person I taught immediately pre-ordered it after our game.
The tiles should just be more basic in what they do. If all of them simply gave you +1/2 rep and a bonus action as depicted maybe with a slightly boosted tweak, then the balance would be restored.
It is true that some Barbara actions are better than others, but they usually come later than the the weaker ones. It always depends on your play style at least in my experience being able to do a rights action when you already discarded your cards for the action can also be handy. Also if you have the beer or food guilds you are able to manipulate the church by using the guilds building to flip the tile which is not relevant for you in this moment just to do the Barbara action afterwards. Or even doing it vice versa. I really like the Barbara action even after 15+ games
The tiles should just be more basic in what they do. If all of them simply gave you +1/2 rep and a bonus action as depicted maybe with a slightly boosted tweak, then the balance would be restored.
Well, the first benefits are forgettable. Then suddenly you get double income and a free building....and then there is rubbish again. As being said, that is a balance less than Stonemaier quality. In a close game those two actions can be the gamechanger/gamebreaker.
@@andrethannhauser6302 I disagree. First benefit is nice. Third is really strong, fourth is situational. fifth depends on your income and if you want to take the loss of 2 reputation etc. If you took for example the third barbara benefit there is no need in taking the double income, you will become crazy rich nevertheless.
Tiny Epic Pirates also has a dynamic market, albeit very simple. Whenever you sell a commodity it becomes the least valuable one and everything that was less valuable becomes more valuable.
The wife and I played this for the first time on Easter. She beat me by focusing on a lot on reputation and I tried a bunch of mining at the end to try to match her 13 points. I lost by 3 points and I think it was the double action of income and the subsequent 2 hits to my reputation that sealed my fate. Overall I had a great time exploring the mechanics, economy and guild buildings, etc that I can't wait to play it again at 3 or 4 players. I really like this game despite it's quirkiness. Also... the deluxe metal coins are so awesome. It was a real treat to handle them throughout the game. I'm glad it's in my collection and I hope my circle of friends would want to play it more than once a year. :) Great review! Thank you :)
The St Barbara actions can be an interesting part of the game. You get your pelican token by building a tile and getting the right bonus, setting yourself up for that really nice St Barbara tile, nobody else has a pelican token yet ….. then someone builds an obscure building tile on the board which just happens to remove the next (really nice) St Barbara tile… grrrrr… Not the best part of the game but I don’t think it is broken or unnecessary. Sometimes even the weaker St Barbara bonuses can help if they give you an action you couldn’t otherwise carry out because you don’t have the right cards left in your hand
The tiles should just be more basic in what they do. If all of them simply gave you +1/2 rep and a bonus action as depicted maybe with a slightly boosted tweak, then the balance would be restored.
Maybe but it would make that action sooooo boring , it’s your opinion , respect it but i don’t like the mention of balancing in boardgame reviews because most ( like 99,9%) of boardgame have a luck factor . Like of you want a good balance game play Go 🤷🏻 Really like Kutna hora and hope a couple more games could make you enjoy the game a bit more 👍🏻
My read of the criticism of The Dice Tower review was that many gamers thought it was superficial. With too many games to review and too little time, people thought that the Dice Tower panel just phoned it in without a lot of thought. You review was tremendously more informative.
Yes, the flip side of getting different thoughts on their panel reviews, is that they seem to lack the same diligence in playing it enough to form a rounded opinion. That said, it's a lot better than their crowdfunding feature, which they seem consistently ill-prepped for, ending up in them making awfully superficial comments merely on the theme and looks. Other channels do a much more professional overview.
What you said about crowdfunding was certainly noticeable and actually one reason I stopped doing my own - it's really hard to research a ton of projects and so as much as I'm not a fan of KS channels, at least I can leave them to do their thing. With panel reviews, the problem as you say is indeed getting enough plays out of the game for each person reviewing it particularly at all the player counts. One big advantage of doing reviews myself.
I am not completely convinced by the criticism presented. On St. Barbara: first of all I find it quite usual that effects grow stronger throughout the game. And then I think you are comparing extreme scenarios of the actions. Yes, buying rights would typically be 1 or 4 coins if you need to pay for them. But getting them for free is an opportunity to get one which would be more expensive at that moment, and it could really make a difference in the earlier game stage. Double income sounds very strong, but first of all it's not always as much money as mentioned, and then I'm not sure you mentioned that these come at a cost of 2 reputation. Loss of reputation can cost you money in return (need to pay for plots), it can cost you flexibility to play joker without losing further reputation, and eventually it will cost you points. If you can gain 50 groschen with a regular income, then 100 groschen & -2 on reputation still sounds like a good deal, but not a gamechanger. Basically you have saved one action, but now you need to find a way to convert the money into the points which you have lost. On mining: yes, if everyone does some mining, the end game scoring won't bring a lot of difference. If someone ignores it completely, the difference can be bigger. If yellow patricians come into play, there can be quite some points to be found down there. And as you actually mention, mining is a part of your income and it affects the market for silver and permits. Altogether that sounds like a large pool of reasons to build them, no? The point here is that as I understand, KH aims at being very different in different plays, depending on the directions players choose and of course also the slightly randomized setup. So an element which is very insignificant one day can become much stronger then next time you play.
2 Reputation is only a painful loss if you are gunning for high reputation for the VP's. A lot of players will simply ignore reputation at least other than maybe getting it to Level 3 for early game plots. I can make up that rep easily enough later for the sake of 80-100 bucks which has been the value it's always reached every time it's used. Failing that though, a free building beats a free rights action or 3 victory points any day. The St Barbara could easily have been replaced or taken out without too much hassle - failing that, just make every bit of the cathedral give you +1 rep flat and then a bonus action maybe with a small tweak (for e.g. do an income action but don't pay to put a patrician out). That way they are still useful, but you won't have people deliberately holding back to spam cathedral builds which doesn't make any thematic sense. Just because a building tile is expensive to acquire rights wise, doesn't mean you need it. You've got 3 guilds to work with, chances are something is cheap. If you plan your round out correctly you shouldn't need a Joker that often to make much use of the 1 rep, again see above whether you care about rep or not. Most won't ignore mining entirely but unless you have two people really going for mining heavily, then it's not difficult to scab a 2nd/3rd place VP amount, the differential for effort required is just too low. It's useful for silver/permit prices, but that's an ingame thing - I said specifically I wanted them to have a bigger end-game impact.
@@TheBrokenMeeple There are just many IFs to all those statements. If you do not focus on points from reputation, you care less. If the wood is more expensive, the double income or free building is more powerful than if it costs 1. If you specifically want a building which happens to be in the 3rd column, you will appreciate free rights more than if you are more indifferent about what to build. etc It all boils down to the fact that the power of these actions is highly situational and varied. Which is normally considered a good thing. I may agree that a free building would in most cases be stronger than free rights. So what? They become available at a very different stage of the game. All of the effects are available to everyone. This is only a problem if the game too often goes into the direction where getting this effect is so crucial for the victory that everybody starts to focus on that, and the one who gets "lucky" makes a decisive step towards the victory. But do you think that this is what is happening here?
As much as I like reviews with several people discussing things, I again realize how much more quality your reviews have compared to the Dice Tower incl a comprehensible rating. Also the structure of pros and cons is great. Honestly, even for my top10 I can find at least 5 cons per game, and those need to be mentioned.
Totally agree with you on 2 player. It would be great if an expansion could improve the 2 player (30% of my plays are at 2 player) option. For me its a keeper mainly because it is different enough from any other game in my collection
Brick & Mortar has a player determined supply/demand dynamic pricing market. I haven't played it but the playthrough I watched had me very interested in it and would definitely like to play it. Check it out as I think it might fit more what you were after in Kutna Hora. Thanks for the review.
Played this game over the weekend. It was good overall. The dynamic market wasn't much of an attraction in our game. Seemed like things went up and down a point here or there, but not really much impact overall. I pretty much ignored the mines because it wasn't worth it for so few points. Never did the Saint Barabra action... mostly because it seemed like such an unnecessary side add-on mechanic, and I didn't want to raise up the taxes. The real draw for me on this game was the dual use cards for action selection, and buildings with association icons adjacent. It was also confusing to have 2 ore tracks on some player boards and not others, depending on the guilds selected. Overall, a bit weird and felt slightly unbalanced. Still managed to enjoy myself. Also played Distilled... I liked that game better than this one. 7 out of 10 is about right.
Yikes. I preordered this. Looks like I’m cancelling now based on it not working for 2 players. What did you prefer? This or nucleum? I am hearing complaints about these cardboard dividers, that they’re hard to manipulate, and will show wear quite quickly.
Don’t be so quick to discount it based on one opinion. There are currently 18 votes on the two player version of this on bgg. 4 wouldn’t recommend it at two, 11 would recommend it, and 3 say it’s best at two. Probably worth at least trying it for yourself.
At 2 players.........honestly both games I wouldn't actively play at 2 but that's because I can play Nucleum solo and get the same feeling as a two player.
It's strange to see that while your rating isn't THAT different from DT's (well, at least from 2 of the 3 reviewers there), yours seems like a more positive review over all. It's also more in line with what I thought about the game myself, but I only have one play so I've yet to formulate a clear opinion on all the aspects.
I've seen that review, the ratings I felt were a bit harsh, the game certainly deserved a seal of approval from them. But I disagreed with a few of their actual points raised, which I hoped to clarify in this video. If anything given how much they were harping on the game, I expected their ratings to be much lower (certainly if I said all the bad points they did, I'd be like a 4-5), but their scales tend to start at 6 as opposed to 1! :P A 7 from me is "good", not great, but good.
Your cartoon interludes are so funny ! Love them. This game I think works so well at 2 - such a push and pull game. I also agreed (at first) at the Cathedral offerings being imbalanced - but this completely changed for me after about 4 plays - some are better at certain times. And 2X Income comes with such a huge penalty - and early in the game so not as relevant. Always great hearing your thoughts on games!!! Keep up the great work.
Glad you enjoy it! Most like the interludes, the odd couple don't, but if I lose them, I lose any sense of uniqueness to the visual style of the show and just look like every other "turn the camera on and talk" tedium.
@@TheBrokenMeeple Believe me - I teach at a school and most of them look at me with the "get on with it" face! = ) Cheers as always to you and this fantastic channel.
I had the same expectations, I was very glad that I saw your review before buying it. I'm gonna wait for someone to buy it or see if this holds the test of time and an expasion comes out to fix the minning section
On point review. I like the game a lot, but it needs to be played at 4 players. :) Mining is meaningful if you double down on it and it is only benefitial for 1 player out of 4.
Well Luke, looks like your ‘overpowered church’ criticism’ got shot down on bgg, but that’s not surprising as it was posted on the forum for the game where people get very offended when ‘ their game’ is criticized in any way.
Discussed I think more is the term - the arguments vary in terms of legitmacy. I'd be interested to hear the designer thoughts on the Church. And from my lookings online - the Church is a divisive part, 50/50 in support or against.
Ok so the more I get thru your videos the more I am realizing we have the same taste in games, all be it, for different reasons. I got this game for xmas and have yet to get it to the table. I was attracted by the variable economy/markets. Your review completely justified this. Your coverage of the game's short-commings is spot on. It will not impact my now boosted enthusiasm to play it. if anything, your identification of the lack of balance of the church cards spawned some ideas for house rules to reel them in a bit. For example, double income card can be cut in half or your income plus 20% if your income is above some number. Great review and you have created a lot of enthusiasm for me to play this game asap hehe update - did get it to the table today for the first time and loved it. One note I wanted to share is that we got the st barbaras church action with the double income early as there was a lot of drive to do the church actions so it was like on an income of 15 or so was not that big of an impact. Will be doing more games to see if this is consistent for us.
I rather like that I don't know the exact effect of a population increase / building construction. Indeed my worry is that over time I might start to remember rough flow of prices. The uncertainty is very much something I want from the game. To be fair on the 1st St. Babs tile, it's unlikely anyone would already have high enough rep to cost just 1Gn. In addition, you're also getting a free plot action, and it's easy for us to forget the value of (free) actions. That said, your overall push there feels reasonable on all counts. That mine area majority struck me in a similar way in Nova Roma, and again in that game, it's more about the ongoing benefit you get from the action, rather than the area majority (not an issue for me, area majority doesn't excite me much). I don't play 2P, but agree it feels like it ought to have been more of a market manipulation bot, than lighter random stuff. Concerns? Admin for sure - remembering to update cards as well as shoving the slider along and maybe changing the tax level (multi-tasking always a risk) Wear on the sliders. Some have reported it as a bit stiff, and even early wear Other gripes? Whilst clear, I find the dark mines vs. child like bright design of the buildings to be somewhat incongruous. Expansion? Connected to the earlier comment, having an ability to mix up the pricing 'algorithm' with new cards might appeal a lot in the long run
The tiles should just be more basic in what they do. If all of them simply gave you +1/2 rep and a bonus action as depicted maybe with a slightly boosted tweak, then the balance would be restored.
I have a hard time finding something i don’t like about this game , we a couple of games under your belt it really start to shine. Kinda of sad it doesn’t get much love.
I like the rewood idea but how much of a difference it makes is debatable. If you produce a game with all plastic pieces, it’s not having an impact on the environment unless everybody who bought the game threw their game into a river and that doesn’t happen. Games constantly get sold off to other people so there really is no plastic waste going back into the environment. But if there is less waste created when making the pieces compared to wood cubes and plastic, then it’s great. Can’t find much information about this process except from the company that makes this board game so they’re obviously gonna be biased.
I've been sort of disappointed by CGE the past few years... thanks for the review, Luke! I always appreciate your player scale ratings, especially when it makes an impact on the gameplay like this one.
@@TheBrokenMeeple for sure. I don't own a copy, and the game we played was already on the table, so I didn't really take a look at the physical copy. But I've seen it a lot online and always thought it's just black with a coin.
Yes therefore it's worth doing a little of it in the game (or just letting other players do it for you), but the scoring should still be more meaningful.
the multi use of cards is great, for the rest it's an average game. and the saint barbara thing really feels like a last minute addition. It's not properly developed.
The guilds are also not balanced at all. Some are clearly weaker and rubbish (like wood), others are much stronger. Also, some have pretty much no impact on other players (like beer) and sit somehow orphaned in the game. And can much better be controlled.
Agreed, people are looking at them and comparing their money gains together. That's not the point of them. Each player will have access to a high value commodity for that purpose but wood is a purchase commodity. That you can control. If players are looking to build you hold back and wait till you are building several buildings, then make wood cheaper and reap the benefits.
Finally played 2 player. Ugh. Total fail. Even before game started. The stalls are too tight, damaged all the sliders. Already sent complaints to CGE for replacement, so I can sell it as like new. So many strange design choices: 3 spots for plots? Why? Who uses more than one at a time and would tax themselves? Tacked on list: church building, patricians, the mines. No control in 2 player game. Even putting a public building down was tough as we could often not get any of our correct symbol buildings next to it, as the market didn’t offer any. “hey, how about a game where I control wood economy all game, and you control ore all game, there is nothing I can do to affect your control, and we never even compete for private buildings selection?” “Yeah! Sounds like FUN!” The fact they released an app to take over the terrible economy stands shows you how bad they are. $10 could easily have been shaved off retail price by leaving all the cards and stands out of the game. Another $3 off to remove the unbalanced church (not even modular) and another $2 off to remove the almost useless patricians. Why pay $10 to give me and the opponent a point? Money is tight. Everyone is usually balanced by turn 4 so they provide no incentives. We never bought one. Rule book is also not great. Event card rules in two different pages. Useless bloat like a stand to put mine tiles on. Who cares? Best laugh was that it took me one full round of 5 cards to build a building. Plot, rights, 2 income actions, then building. It’s a 6 round game. 🤮
![Videoreihe DEUTSCH - RUNDE 4 [1/2] - Europa Universalis: The Price of Power - SD-08 [8/33]](/img/n.gif)
clans of caledonia has a dynamic market
My favourite one, then navegador is a great game with one.
i kinda hate to say that Clans replaced Agricola as my no.1 euro game.
I wouldn't say that Saint Barbara cathedral is "just a church". It's simply stunning and more impressive than Notre Dame in Paris (visited both in person).
Ha ha I'm sure in real life it's much nicer to look at, even though I'm not big on old buildings!
All fair points. Your approach seems to have changed lately, you sound more positive even in your critic. Good job!
No change at all, just haven't come across much to rant over lately 🤣
The older I get, the less free time I have, and the more I'm glad I have TH-cam videos to go over board games to see if I'd even like the concept before buying. FLGSs have so many games that it's overwhelming
Good review, even if I disagree with parts of it, I think it was well reasoned.
The St Barbara action is interesting, I do think it fits in the game, especially since more than once the tiles are flipped by other actions without benefit to the player, so the decision of when to use it is very situational and adds intrigue.
I agree that the mining in general should be more consequential. It should't take over but I'd love it to be a bit more powerful.
Regarding the how the sliders and the cards (population) works, I like it that way because it adds randomness, as real life often does so it also adds intrigue to the gameplay.
I played this two player and I liked it a lot. It's not the best player count but to me it really works well. Reinforced by the fact that the person I taught immediately pre-ordered it after our game.
The tiles should just be more basic in what they do. If all of them simply gave you +1/2 rep and a bonus action as depicted maybe with a slightly boosted tweak, then the balance would be restored.
It is true that some Barbara actions are better than others, but they usually come later than the the weaker ones.
It always depends on your play style at least in my experience being able to do a rights action when you already discarded your cards for the action can also be handy.
Also if you have the beer or food guilds you are able to manipulate the church by using the guilds building to flip the tile which is not relevant for you in this moment just to do the Barbara action afterwards.
Or even doing it vice versa. I really like the Barbara action even after 15+ games
The tiles should just be more basic in what they do. If all of them simply gave you +1/2 rep and a bonus action as depicted maybe with a slightly boosted tweak, then the balance would be restored.
Well, the first benefits are forgettable. Then suddenly you get double income and a free building....and then there is rubbish again.
As being said, that is a balance less than Stonemaier quality.
In a close game those two actions can be the gamechanger/gamebreaker.
@@andrethannhauser6302
I disagree. First benefit is nice. Third is really strong, fourth is situational. fifth depends on your income and if you want to take the loss of 2 reputation etc.
If you took for example the third barbara benefit there is no need in taking the double income, you will become crazy rich nevertheless.
Tiny Epic Pirates also has a dynamic market, albeit very simple.
Whenever you sell a commodity it becomes the least valuable one and everything that was less valuable becomes more valuable.
Two games that come to mind with a dynamic pricing market are Power Grid and Clans of Caldonia. BTW, I agree,Feudum is a great game!
Power Grid does fit indeed, though I can't stand it 😂
The wife and I played this for the first time on Easter. She beat me by focusing on a lot on reputation and I tried a bunch of mining at the end to try to match her 13 points. I lost by 3 points and I think it was the double action of income and the subsequent 2 hits to my reputation that sealed my fate. Overall I had a great time exploring the mechanics, economy and guild buildings, etc that I can't wait to play it again at 3 or 4 players. I really like this game despite it's quirkiness. Also... the deluxe metal coins are so awesome. It was a real treat to handle them throughout the game. I'm glad it's in my collection and I hope my circle of friends would want to play it more than once a year. :) Great review! Thank you :)
The St Barbara actions can be an interesting part of the game. You get your pelican token by building a tile and getting the right bonus, setting yourself up for that really nice St Barbara tile, nobody else has a pelican token yet ….. then someone builds an obscure building tile on the board which just happens to remove the next (really nice) St Barbara tile… grrrrr… Not the best part of the game but I don’t think it is broken or unnecessary. Sometimes even the weaker St Barbara bonuses can help if they give you an action you couldn’t otherwise carry out because you don’t have the right cards left in your hand
The tiles should just be more basic in what they do. If all of them simply gave you +1/2 rep and a bonus action as depicted maybe with a slightly boosted tweak, then the balance would be restored.
Maybe but it would make that action sooooo boring , it’s your opinion , respect it but i don’t like the mention of balancing in boardgame reviews because most ( like 99,9%) of boardgame have a luck factor .
Like of you want a good balance game play Go 🤷🏻
Really like Kutna hora and hope a couple more games could make you enjoy the game a bit more 👍🏻
My read of the criticism of The Dice Tower review was that many gamers thought it was superficial. With too many games to review and too little time, people thought that the Dice Tower panel just phoned it in without a lot of thought. You review was tremendously more informative.
Yes, the flip side of getting different thoughts on their panel reviews, is that they seem to lack the same diligence in playing it enough to form a rounded opinion. That said, it's a lot better than their crowdfunding feature, which they seem consistently ill-prepped for, ending up in them making awfully superficial comments merely on the theme and looks. Other channels do a much more professional overview.
What you said about crowdfunding was certainly noticeable and actually one reason I stopped doing my own - it's really hard to research a ton of projects and so as much as I'm not a fan of KS channels, at least I can leave them to do their thing.
With panel reviews, the problem as you say is indeed getting enough plays out of the game for each person reviewing it particularly at all the player counts. One big advantage of doing reviews myself.
I am not completely convinced by the criticism presented.
On St. Barbara: first of all I find it quite usual that effects grow stronger throughout the game. And then I think you are comparing extreme scenarios of the actions. Yes, buying rights would typically be 1 or 4 coins if you need to pay for them. But getting them for free is an opportunity to get one which would be more expensive at that moment, and it could really make a difference in the earlier game stage. Double income sounds very strong, but first of all it's not always as much money as mentioned, and then I'm not sure you mentioned that these come at a cost of 2 reputation. Loss of reputation can cost you money in return (need to pay for plots), it can cost you flexibility to play joker without losing further reputation, and eventually it will cost you points. If you can gain 50 groschen with a regular income, then 100 groschen & -2 on reputation still sounds like a good deal, but not a gamechanger. Basically you have saved one action, but now you need to find a way to convert the money into the points which you have lost.
On mining: yes, if everyone does some mining, the end game scoring won't bring a lot of difference. If someone ignores it completely, the difference can be bigger. If yellow patricians come into play, there can be quite some points to be found down there. And as you actually mention, mining is a part of your income and it affects the market for silver and permits. Altogether that sounds like a large pool of reasons to build them, no?
The point here is that as I understand, KH aims at being very different in different plays, depending on the directions players choose and of course also the slightly randomized setup. So an element which is very insignificant one day can become much stronger then next time you play.
2 Reputation is only a painful loss if you are gunning for high reputation for the VP's. A lot of players will simply ignore reputation at least other than maybe getting it to Level 3 for early game plots. I can make up that rep easily enough later for the sake of 80-100 bucks which has been the value it's always reached every time it's used. Failing that though, a free building beats a free rights action or 3 victory points any day. The St Barbara could easily have been replaced or taken out without too much hassle - failing that, just make every bit of the cathedral give you +1 rep flat and then a bonus action maybe with a small tweak (for e.g. do an income action but don't pay to put a patrician out). That way they are still useful, but you won't have people deliberately holding back to spam cathedral builds which doesn't make any thematic sense.
Just because a building tile is expensive to acquire rights wise, doesn't mean you need it. You've got 3 guilds to work with, chances are something is cheap.
If you plan your round out correctly you shouldn't need a Joker that often to make much use of the 1 rep, again see above whether you care about rep or not.
Most won't ignore mining entirely but unless you have two people really going for mining heavily, then it's not difficult to scab a 2nd/3rd place VP amount, the differential for effort required is just too low. It's useful for silver/permit prices, but that's an ingame thing - I said specifically I wanted them to have a bigger end-game impact.
@@TheBrokenMeeple There are just many IFs to all those statements.
If you do not focus on points from reputation, you care less.
If the wood is more expensive, the double income or free building is more powerful than if it costs 1.
If you specifically want a building which happens to be in the 3rd column, you will appreciate free rights more than if you are more indifferent about what to build.
etc
It all boils down to the fact that the power of these actions is highly situational and varied. Which is normally considered a good thing.
I may agree that a free building would in most cases be stronger than free rights. So what? They become available at a very different stage of the game. All of the effects are available to everyone. This is only a problem if the game too often goes into the direction where getting this effect is so crucial for the victory that everybody starts to focus on that, and the one who gets "lucky" makes a decisive step towards the victory. But do you think that this is what is happening here?
Well now I feel a bit better. Hopefully an expansion can fix the issues
As much as I like reviews with several people discussing things, I again realize how much more quality your reviews have compared to the Dice Tower incl a comprehensible rating.
Also the structure of pros and cons is great. Honestly, even for my top10 I can find at least 5 cons per game, and those need to be mentioned.
Thanks a ton mate! :-) appreciate it! Every game has flaws, even my 10/10 rated games.
Totally agree with you on 2 player. It would be great if an expansion could improve the 2 player (30% of my plays are at 2 player) option. For me its a keeper mainly because it is different enough from any other game in my collection
Brick & Mortar has a player determined supply/demand dynamic pricing market. I haven't played it but the playthrough I watched had me very interested in it and would definitely like to play it. Check it out as I think it might fit more what you were after in Kutna Hora. Thanks for the review.
Played this game over the weekend. It was good overall. The dynamic market wasn't much of an attraction in our game. Seemed like things went up and down a point here or there, but not really much impact overall. I pretty much ignored the mines because it wasn't worth it for so few points. Never did the Saint Barabra action... mostly because it seemed like such an unnecessary side add-on mechanic, and I didn't want to raise up the taxes. The real draw for me on this game was the dual use cards for action selection, and buildings with association icons adjacent. It was also confusing to have 2 ore tracks on some player boards and not others, depending on the guilds selected. Overall, a bit weird and felt slightly unbalanced. Still managed to enjoy myself. Also played Distilled... I liked that game better than this one. 7 out of 10 is about right.
Yikes. I preordered this. Looks like I’m cancelling now based on it not working for 2 players. What did you prefer? This or nucleum? I am hearing complaints about these cardboard dividers, that they’re hard to manipulate, and will show wear quite quickly.
Don’t be so quick to discount it based on one opinion. There are currently 18 votes on the two player version of this on bgg. 4 wouldn’t recommend it at two, 11 would recommend it, and 3 say it’s best at two. Probably worth at least trying it for yourself.
At 2 players.........honestly both games I wouldn't actively play at 2 but that's because I can play Nucleum solo and get the same feeling as a two player.
we play only 2p. +10 for now. We still like it!
It's strange to see that while your rating isn't THAT different from DT's (well, at least from 2 of the 3 reviewers there), yours seems like a more positive review over all. It's also more in line with what I thought about the game myself, but I only have one play so I've yet to formulate a clear opinion on all the aspects.
I've seen that review, the ratings I felt were a bit harsh, the game certainly deserved a seal of approval from them. But I disagreed with a few of their actual points raised, which I hoped to clarify in this video. If anything given how much they were harping on the game, I expected their ratings to be much lower (certainly if I said all the bad points they did, I'd be like a 4-5), but their scales tend to start at 6 as opposed to 1! :P A 7 from me is "good", not great, but good.
Your cartoon interludes are so funny ! Love them. This game I think works so well at 2 - such a push and pull game. I also agreed (at first) at the Cathedral offerings being imbalanced - but this completely changed for me after about 4 plays - some are better at certain times. And 2X Income comes with such a huge penalty - and early in the game so not as relevant. Always great hearing your thoughts on games!!! Keep up the great work.
Glad you enjoy it! Most like the interludes, the odd couple don't, but if I lose them, I lose any sense of uniqueness to the visual style of the show and just look like every other "turn the camera on and talk" tedium.
@@TheBrokenMeeple Believe me - I teach at a school and most of them look at me with the "get on with it" face! = ) Cheers as always to you and this fantastic channel.
I had the same expectations, I was very glad that I saw your review before buying it. I'm gonna wait for someone to buy it or see if this holds the test of time and an expasion comes out to fix the minning section
Sounds like a solid concept that could have done with more time spent on playtesting to tweak balance across the various tracks.
I know it's not quite the same but i tried the Great Zimbabwe at the weekend and the player-controlled market in that game was great.
However being a Splotter game all the other issues dwarf that aspect. 😉
On point review. I like the game a lot, but it needs to be played at 4 players. :) Mining is meaningful if you double down on it and it is only benefitial for 1 player out of 4.
The cover is unique, therefore a looker :)
It seems the game needs a patch (even in an expansion box). Then it would shine for sure.
The price of exporting cotton in Brass is supply driven
But then you are playing Brass :P
Navigador has very nice dynamic market.
Well Luke, looks like your ‘overpowered church’ criticism’ got shot down on bgg, but that’s not surprising as it was posted on the forum for the game where people get very offended when ‘ their game’ is criticized in any way.
Discussed I think more is the term - the arguments vary in terms of legitmacy. I'd be interested to hear the designer thoughts on the Church. And from my lookings online - the Church is a divisive part, 50/50 in support or against.
Ok so the more I get thru your videos the more I am realizing we have the same taste in games, all be it, for different reasons. I got this game for xmas and have yet to get it to the table. I was attracted by the variable economy/markets. Your review completely justified this. Your coverage of the game's short-commings is spot on. It will not impact my now boosted enthusiasm to play it. if anything, your identification of the lack of balance of the church cards spawned some ideas for house rules to reel them in a bit. For example, double income card can be cut in half or your income plus 20% if your income is above some number. Great review and you have created a lot of enthusiasm for me to play this game asap hehe
update - did get it to the table today for the first time and loved it. One note I wanted to share is that we got the st barbaras church action with the double income early as there was a lot of drive to do the church actions so it was like on an income of 15 or so was not that big of an impact. Will be doing more games to see if this is consistent for us.
It's a 7/10 game for me too. I'll happily play it, but it's not a game that makes my soul sing.
I rather like that I don't know the exact effect of a population increase / building construction. Indeed my worry is that over time I might start to remember rough flow of prices. The uncertainty is very much something I want from the game.
To be fair on the 1st St. Babs tile, it's unlikely anyone would already have high enough rep to cost just 1Gn. In addition, you're also getting a free plot action, and it's easy for us to forget the value of (free) actions. That said, your overall push there feels reasonable on all counts.
That mine area majority struck me in a similar way in Nova Roma, and again in that game, it's more about the ongoing benefit you get from the action, rather than the area majority (not an issue for me, area majority doesn't excite me much).
I don't play 2P, but agree it feels like it ought to have been more of a market manipulation bot, than lighter random stuff.
Concerns?
Admin for sure - remembering to update cards as well as shoving the slider along and maybe changing the tax level (multi-tasking always a risk)
Wear on the sliders. Some have reported it as a bit stiff, and even early wear
Other gripes?
Whilst clear, I find the dark mines vs. child like bright design of the buildings to be somewhat incongruous.
Expansion?
Connected to the earlier comment, having an ability to mix up the pricing 'algorithm' with new cards might appeal a lot in the long run
The tiles should just be more basic in what they do. If all of them simply gave you +1/2 rep and a bonus action as depicted maybe with a slightly boosted tweak, then the balance would be restored.
what are the best house rules for this game
Are there any? I haven't made any.
@@TheBrokenMeeple i have no idea. i just feel the game is almost perfect and maybe a house rule or two can unlock that potential
I have a hard time finding something i don’t like about this game , we a couple of games under your belt it really start to shine.
Kinda of sad it doesn’t get much love.
I like the rewood idea but how much of a difference it makes is debatable. If you produce a game with all plastic pieces, it’s not having an impact on the environment unless everybody who bought the game threw their game into a river and that doesn’t happen. Games constantly get sold off to other people so there really is no plastic waste going back into the environment. But if there is less waste created when making the pieces compared to wood cubes and plastic, then it’s great. Can’t find much information about this process except from the company that makes this board game so they’re obviously gonna be biased.
I've been sort of disappointed by CGE the past few years... thanks for the review, Luke! I always appreciate your player scale ratings, especially when it makes an impact on the gameplay like this one.
It ain't a complete comment section without you Rose 😊
Wow, I did NOT realize there was a city outline on the box cover. It's a really poor choice.
Hard to see isn't it? :P
@@TheBrokenMeeple for sure. I don't own a copy, and the game we played was already on the table, so I didn't really take a look at the physical copy. But I've seen it a lot online and always thought it's just black with a coin.
mining also adds to income
Yes therefore it's worth doing a little of it in the game (or just letting other players do it for you), but the scoring should still be more meaningful.
the multi use of cards is great, for the rest it's an average game. and the saint barbara thing really feels like a last minute addition. It's not properly developed.
Thanks! Money saved. Clicked a thumbs up on BGG video. 🤗
Awesome! Thank you!
The guilds are also not balanced at all. Some are clearly weaker and rubbish (like wood), others are much stronger. Also, some have pretty much no impact on other players (like beer) and sit somehow orphaned in the game. And can much better be controlled.
you just dont how to play it right imho wood is definitely not rubbish dude
you can read the forum entry on bgg: “How to play Builders right” from the author
Agreed, people are looking at them and comparing their money gains together. That's not the point of them. Each player will have access to a high value commodity for that purpose but wood is a purchase commodity. That you can control. If players are looking to build you hold back and wait till you are building several buildings, then make wood cheaper and reap the benefits.
Finally played 2 player. Ugh. Total fail. Even before game started. The stalls are too tight, damaged all the sliders. Already sent complaints to CGE for replacement, so I can sell it as like new. So many strange design choices: 3 spots for plots? Why? Who uses more than one at a time and would tax themselves? Tacked on list: church building, patricians, the mines. No control in 2 player game. Even putting a public building down was tough as we could often not get any of our correct symbol buildings next to it, as the market didn’t offer any.
“hey, how about a game where I control wood economy all game, and you control ore all game, there is nothing I can do to affect your control, and we never even compete for private buildings selection?”
“Yeah! Sounds like FUN!”
The fact they released an app to take over the terrible economy stands shows you how bad they are. $10 could easily have been shaved off retail price by leaving all the cards and stands out of the game. Another $3 off to remove the unbalanced church (not even modular) and another $2 off to remove the almost useless patricians. Why pay $10 to give me and the opponent a point? Money is tight. Everyone is usually balanced by turn 4 so they provide no incentives. We never bought one. Rule book is also not great. Event card rules in two different pages. Useless bloat like a stand to put mine tiles on. Who cares?
Best laugh was that it took me one full round of 5 cards to build a building. Plot, rights, 2 income actions, then building. It’s a 6 round game. 🤮
Certainly isn't one I would play at two ever.