Yeah...I keep hearing these crazy takes over and over. I am just glad I am not on social media. Everyone just needs to play the games they enjoy and go to more locals.
The FGC is offline, your locals, your regionals, and the other grassroots events. I'm sure there's some overlap, but a big portion of the twitter crowd are just fans that may or may not play the game. Yapping online does not make you part of the FGC, you have show up. But post-pandemic, with lots of local communities still rebuilding, it's easy to lose sight of that. Keep the faith ✊
"There are some games in some scenes, that as soon as the marketing budget dries up, the passion for the game evaporates almost immediately." -Looks at mortal kombat
...As many such cases, I really think the falloff for strive-post support its gonna hit hard. Ironically the hardships Lumina has had, in turn, does galvanize people that if they still playing... they aint stopping.
I watched in real time that happen with Heroes of the Storm. Blizzard stopped support/sponsoring for the college esport scene and the game effectively died online. You can still play but it's nowhere near when it was before.
That last bit of "they miss when they were in the spotlight" or "they miss when this was new" holds so true even for non fighting games. I play Magic the Gathering and it's even more true with that. People most fondly remember the era that they first started grinding out tournaments.
I can feel you there. Like I was really hyped for Bloomburrow but then my friend group barely played it. Then when Duskmourn came out we played a lot more of that when I would rather have drafted Bloomburrow instead. It is what it is. I just have to go with what they like. There is real FOMO when content is flowing fast. I can be optimistic about that though. We are in an era of content prosperity.
KOF XIII fans are notorious for this in the SNK community. Those folks will do everything but play KOF XIII. If all the people who posted about Kim's pants played KOF XIII, the game would be the most popular fighting game in the world.
The two most "poser fgc games" are KOF 13 and Darkstalkers/VSAV... but i never made up my mind of which is #1. Like, when the news came about the new Capcom collection with DS, then it looked like #1. And when the news came about KOF 13 Global Match, then it looked like the #1. KOF 13 loses to 98 in popularity still today, and DS/VSAV isn't big even in fightcade.
@@carlosaugusto9821 it’s VSAV for sure…I remember when Darkstalkers Resurrection dropped on PS360 and I was excited to learn the game. Got my fish bubble loops down and everything. 1 week in NOBODY was online, you p much had to hope someone was on Fightcade to get games. It’s a shame bc the netcode was incredible, especially for the time, but VSAV is def the king of “fgs ppl like the idea of about but don’t actually play”.
KOF13 has been unplayable online for almost its entire lifespan. It’s only gotten decent netplay a couple years ago and by then it’s a game from over a decade ago. Plus it wouldn’t matter if it did have a higher player count. Everyone says the same thing about people who like third strike and it’s easily the most popular and played retro fighter out there with higher fightcade numbers than some games that came out within the past 3 years. People just don’t like hearing people like things about games.
There's a group going "less than 1000 players dead game" next to a group going "where are my updates" next to a group going "i hate that the game keeps changing" next to a group going "the last game was way better" next to a group going "I wish the game I liked came back (doesn't ever plan to play that game again otherwise)" next to a larger group going "i have no money" and they're all being marketed to by a snake oil salesman whipping his talented servants who he would be nothing without
@stolensentience another separate group would try to break that question down into nuance but actually though the only people making finished products are small teams or a few fringe large teams led by snake oil salesmen wearing hearing aides
The worst part though is when later patches/additions just make the game worse, there's no real way to get people to play an older but better version of the game anymore. Like everyone loved T7 seasons 1 and 2, but there's no real way to play that anymore. If you love Hyper Fighting but hate Super Turbo, you can just play Hyper Fighting on fightcade, but that's basically impossible for modern games nowadays with how patches worked.
You really killed it with 7:56 there. Most people don't miss the game, they miss how the game made them feel. Max really summerized well in his video. 'The first game you actually put effort in, is the one you're gonna glaze the shit out of'.
yeah, the closest thing you can get to playing the older games on modern systems without emulation is tekken 6 and tag 2 on xbox series... kind of amazed they have never made an hd collecion for any of the games
As much as the FGC dogs on Melee. Those bastards could find a way to play Melee during the Rapture due to how attached that community is to that game. A lot of the work it takes to “revitalize” older games is on the community due to the fact there’s zero incentive for companies to rerelease and update those games, and when the community DOES try to add modern accessibility features to those games the companies may harass them. In my opinion, if you want people to play older games either start a movement that gets bigger names involved (like Sajam or some dweeb to make a video) or make so much noise that you make said companies slightly more interested in giving you what you want.
i usually dog on smash as a "fighting game" but ill give the community something: they are passionate b#tches. like you said man, they will keep melee, brawl, 64 alive for years to come. the only one that comes close is probably 3rd strike, but even than smash just.. smashes it.
On a serious note there has been a noticable trend where the large majority of a game's playerbase will drop off after the game is announced to be completely finished, and I'm afraid this mindset might have led to games that stay in an infinite "early access" and a competitive drive among the top billing companies to steal as many of those players as possible with every new release, tossing crowds of people around with no real end goal beyond "keep working on this game forever" or "always be releasing a new thing every 1 to 2 years". There's not enough people playing games, especially fighting games, for this to be able to continue for any length of time. Eventually either we'll all feel cheated enough out of costumes or features or updates that we stop buying the new things, or the crowds get so spread out that companies can't rake in millions of dollars to waste on a few rich company heads, before deciding who to lay off next. Indie game devs save us
I find it quite interesting that this happens a lot more in RTS games. Like Company of Heroes has 3 entries now over the years and so it has 3 separate communities
This is why I appreciate sf4 so much. The arcade aspect is so important to fighting games. Capcom dropped the ball when they didn’t deliver a mvc3 cabinet. Pretty much turned everyone into hermit crybabies.
Facts! I remember practicing at home just to go to the local arcade to display my skills. I ended up meeting so many rivals and friends there. Community completely was cut in half when MVC3 dropped, you’re right about that.
Yeah, kinda made the scene wack too. Like all these weirdo hit boxes and pads. That’s not the way the game is supposed to be played imo. Arcades were the trenches man and you would get embarrassed and clowned if your game wasn’t right.
Dude I stopped with that scene once players started wearing those tight jerseys and I couldn’t bring my 12 pack of beer in. Those old days were messy and I’m glad I was apart of that mess.
@@Elnino420Swing and a miss here. If you remove pad players and hitbox players from the equation, you cut down our numbers massively and we're already small
@@doublevendetta hey I never said anything about removing them, they definitely expanded the game. I just said it became lame. Like people were using short cuts for charge characters. That’s not the way the game is supposed to be played but players make a living off this game so they need to find the most optimal to continue to get to that check.
I also thing modern games having frequent patch cycles diminishes the players attachment to any one game, bc you're kinda relearning new stuff all the time, so players are conditioned to move onto the new thing when it pops up. Oldheads played for *decades* on a single 3S, MvC2 or VF5 version, which builds a different type of engagement than some semi-live-service season model where you regularly expect to suddenly abandon strats, tech and even whole characters. Also, in arcades everyone was in a physical space with the games side-by-side, so players choosing to stick with an older game was as simple as everyone there agreeing they didnt wanna spend money on one machine vs another. These days, getting matches in a depopulated old game is a fundamentally different experience.
I think the scene to keep an eye on for this is MvC:I. Max gave that scene a CRAZY shot in the arm, and I love to see the game, it's players, and the update get the flowers it deserves. But maybe even 6 months from now, the people still playing it will probably be the people that never stopped.
a lot of this is simple nostalgia. people complain about balance or the new shit or say they miss the other game, not because of any one issue, but because they miss the Moment. and the Moment can never come back, it wasn't because the game was any better, it was the totality of the experience, the people they were playing with, the excitement and the movement, all of it coming together to create an experience you'll only ever get exactly once.
anyway ending this thought with "have I said anything stupid this stream??" indicates you've got the kind of humility that shows you're a man of the people.
Think the FGC also just loves too many games all at once. Most other genre's have maybe 1 or 2 games dominating the esports side. While fighting games spreads it's community over 3-4 big ones (SF, Tekken, GG etc...), a couple of medium sized ones (UNI, KOF, GBVSR), and like 50+ other retro games. Don't think any other videogame genre's have events like CEOTAKU, were they still have tourneys for SNES games and obscure doujinshi fighters.
I don't know, there are many claims in the fgc about the current market not having enough franchises and that there's a big deficit of names since the 00's. And that the scene is too concentrated in a few veteran franchises... and whenever something different comes out it is a kind of derivative game exploiting a 3rd party franchise (P4A, DBFZ, GBFV, DNFD, 2XKO, HxH, etc). In the 90's Capcom made SF, Darkstalkers, Marvel, Cyberbots, Jojo's Bizarre Adventure, Red Earth, Rival Schools, Star Gladiator, etc. SNK made Fatal Fury, Art of Fighting, Samurai Shodown, KOF, Savage Reign, The Last Blade, etc. And these are only two companies. There were many companies making a few small games, either 2d or 3d, or original or based on a 3rd party (notably animes).
@@carlosaugusto9821 the 90s and early 2000s brought a lot of new fighters to the table, but the 2d crash at the turn of the millennium fucked over 2d fighters until SF4. Then 3D fighters fizzled out around the early 2010s, leaving only Tekken, Soulcalibur and DOA. And the latter two died(VF’s coming back, thankfully)
Something about "it's not easy too when your playerbase is older and they have other shit on their plate besides fighting games" got me thinking too about our local circles in a sense.
MVC2 and Melee are crossovers with huge appeal tbh. They will never lack a shortage of fans who either focus on gameplay or novelty aspect. It's much harder for individual IPs to stack against that. Especially when you don't have huge content creators in those spaces. Like it or not, people with big followers can make or break a game. Killer Instinct wouldn't be as strong as it is today without Max pushing it or bringing a spotlight to it.
Street Fighter players are hipsters who show up to the party wearing a Third Strike band t-shirt and start praising bands they haven't actually listened to since they were teenagers
This is the best part of the smash scenes. After each game died, new top players still emerged for the old shit. They made netcode, they did the village thing, etc. Key dif is that Nintendo has actively sabotaged the competitive scene/streaming, so there was never a corporate sugar daddy to rely on like what the FGC has in capcom/bamco
Yes and No. Brawl was the last one with that type of community, then the community truly split: One side stayed trying to get the corpo money when it did come through Smash 4 and Ultimate when they came out, and the other side of the scene stayed true to the older games with the PM/P+ and Melee/64. Some if not most of the old Brawl heads stayed with the money and with Smash 4 cause the game's style was similar enough to brawl that they could stay successful, the the rest stayed either with Brawl and the older games or just moved on. The community is still a bit tighter tied together because of what you mentioned with Nintendo, but the Smash scene still has these problems.
@ i think part of it is that brawl had tripping just to cut the legs off our competitive ambitions. We still played it and it was a super expressive game if you got deep into the weeds, but the overall smash track record is pretty solid when it comes to old school scenes surviving. Smash def has this issue but to a lesser extent i feel. That said, the retro issue is way better to have than the no-developer-support issue anyway hahaha
There are 2 big communities in Smash: Melee and the newest game, with Project M and Smash 64 having smaller scenes. All the games since Brawl have very similar DNA and play very similar, whereas 64, Melee and Brawl all feel like different series.
@@Rubberbandman1991 Kind of, even for newer games there isn't really any real money in smash. When smash 4 came out the brawl scene was already pretty much dead and when Ultimate came out the smash 4 scene was def dying and people were really done with it, the transition for those players was very frictionless if they already liked brawl because they're fairly similar to each other, ultimate is basically Brawl 3. Melee continues on because every new smash game keeps bringing new people into the scene and many of those new players end up preferring Melee long term, which keeps the scene healthy. Of course it's only because of the groundwork that the melee heads did the revive the game after brawl almost killed it and the fact that there are a lot of people dedicated in building things that keep Melee accessible for new players. But all of that only happened because brawl was extremely divisive and there was 0 monetary incentive to play it against your will, which kept being true for s4 and ult. If people were winning real-ass nintendo money from brawl, s4 or ult when they were active, Melee wouldn't have survived like this no doubt about it. If brawl had nintendo money *AND* also played like a sequel to Melee no one would be talking about melee today for sure.
If nothing else, if there is someone or a group of people that fight to keep your older title relevant, do what you can to support - as much as attending or donating to the pot or as little as signal boosting their events. Some scenes just need a hero.
Talking about VF6 marketing budget drying up with the dark ominous music in the background…”Will you really be playing that…with a wife and kids???”….The music gets louder
I'm kinda over being picky about fighting games. The FGC is so small at this point. I'll play literally any fighting game I own if another person wants to play it. I'll play the new game, the old game, SF, MK, MVC, KF, SamSho. I see these people hating on games, picking sides. It's all in the mind. You can choose to have fun if you just love to fight.
I like a lot of older games that my growing locals scene just… doesnt jive with at all. Every locals I bring over setups for KOF 2002UM, Tekken 4, SNK Heroines, KOF 98… but I never really get anyone playing them. Everyone just goes for the Main games. I really hope the answer isnt just that I have to put up a $1000 pool to get more people playing but it sounds like it might just be that. Im not good enough at any of these games to properly explain to people why I love them so dearly but I hope with enough dedication I can get the random player to sit down for some longsets in 2002um. I bet your scene in Mikaido was really cool obama.
TK4 is divisive even to a lot of boomers, but TK5DR and TTT1 are appealing retro titles. And SNKH isn't appreciated at all, but KOF 98 and 02um are some of the biggest ones. Still in the case of KOF, the place where you live makes a difference. SNK has very little value in North America (it was worse before KOF 13 but it still feels an "outsider" to the culture), but the company and the games got more attention in some other places, especially Latin America and China. In those places i believe it would be easier to find people wanting to play KOF 98, 98um, 02 or 02um, or also 97, maybe even more than KOF 15.
it's still great you love those games though, I think trying to tell them, even if you can't properly articulate it might get something across, or at least some visual to show them; go for broke
I think a lot of people miss that it isn't even necessarily commentary on the quality of the games, new or old. A lot of people are just older and got a mortgage, car payment, and a family. Or hell even if you don't got any of those things money exists now in this space that didn't prior to 2010 and that's just going to change decisions regardless of how much you hate or love the old game or the new game or what the better game even is. That's all ON TOP of the other things like reliving glory days, competing being a new experience etc.
Im a Street Fighter player the country im in had no CPT support during the SFV era, the only really big thing we got was the intel world open. But we had a healthy scene with locals throughout the country and majors as well. What I find interesting is the amount of entrants for SFV had a steady decline over the years. But with SF6 it was an extremely sharp decline in year 2 and is already at the end of SFV level of entrants.
Sfv gave pc players access to the scene. That’s a huge impact and it was a lot of peoples first fighting game or first fighting game they competed (by actually playing ppl online for the first time or competing on a higher level for the first time). Sf6 just came out and didn’t change anything besides gameplay. So no impact beside the gameplay…it’s been over 5 years since sfv came out so if you don’t love the grind of fighting games you probably don’t care to really play sf6. I was one of the kids that thought I would be going to tourneys and maybe competing when sf4 came out, nope. Shits too hard for how much I care about it, I just wanna have some fun hitting buttons and combos. I just play 3rd strike and umvc3 now. I feel like going back to sfv ain’t a bad idea if it’s gaining some popularity again. It’ll help sf6 retain its popularity too, sf4 did this for sfv (imo) After 2012 I just gave up fighting games in general (competitively) cause I didn’t care that much, but 5 years before that, I thought I did. I just love the scene because it’s family. I didn’t care to compete, I just wanna have fun. So for Sf6, I think it’ll be fine. People play what they want to, if the sponsors leave cause the money ain’t there, they’ll come back when it is. Just keep those locals going and they’ll turn into majors. Maybe your scene can help revitalize the whole scene in general. I feel like that’s what the Middle East did with t7 the last 5 or so years. Korea and Mexico did it with kof13 10 years ago, it can happen for sf6. Just keep having fun and if you like competing, go compete!
@@AbstractHomosapien Im not actually sure if its specifically that reason. Im actually not sure what it is with SF6 it just seems really weird going from no CPT events in SFV to being included in a world warrior region in SF6 yet the player base has decreased. For example our nationals major first year of SF6 had 54 entrants (which was around what SFV was getting the last 2 years of it) then down to 38 entrants the 2nd year. Im not sure if its a mix of people not enjoying the game as much or other life responsibilities. When our country was included in the Intel world open for SFV the online qualifiers were getting like 50-70 entrants bringing back a lot of people who dropped the game a few years earlier.
nostalgia plays a huge role in most of the discussions had on FG twitter, and I am no different from other when it comes to nostalgia. I still love Garou and CVS2, but I also think there is a huge opportunity presented in the modern age of FGs. To me the biggest learning opportunity is in the choices devs choose with their games, and whether those choices create a better game on the long run. This is combined with all the discourse and publishing decisions. Therefore, my enjoyment of FG is through a different perspective.
Genuinely people need to be told what to do. Like told what to like, patches to tell them what’s good etc… Theirs no love anymore people gotta be told what to love. It’s not hard to keep playing bbcf or mvc2 or SSBM. You got your friends that play that love it with you just play. Trying out new games to try them is great but if they straight up suck don’t play them. This is why I’ll always believe SF players aren’t real fans.
Ok, but wanting to play a new release is the most normal thing in the world. It was always that way since the 80's... and many games, inside and outside the fg genre, had yearly sequels even. I don't know why but there is a normal tendency to try the new thing, and the industry of the time was exploring that reality. In fgs, Capcom grew their library a lot over the mid 90's, and companies like SNK made even more fgs, each one with yearly sequels. Then in 3d fgs, the sequels used to come out in 1-2 years overall. And outside fgs, most Megaman games in the 80's and most of the 90's had yearly sequels. And early Castlevania games, early Final Fantasy games, etc... lots of other things came out every 1-2 years. And there were a few exceptions of an extremely disappointing sequel that ended up getting less attention, but as long as the following sequel is good the momentum is totally recovered. The general tendency was not broken at all. Like SSF2T saving SSF2, SFA2 saving SFA1, SF3 3S saving NG and 2I, etc.
💯 I've had street fighter fans say how much they like kof 13. I know they are fake as fuck. Who the fuck plays that? No mention of the games people actually play in that scene. 98 and 2002. They watched a top 10 fighting game video or jwong do combo trials. Street fighter fans are fake as fuck no offense.
You worded perfectly what I've always been wondering, the retro/poverty scene seems to always be popping as long as it's something SUPER niche, like deep cut Vortex Gallery mainstays Karnov etc. If you're trying to keep alive something that had a clear esports push in the modern era and its time ran out when the new game came out, those games are usually quite dead when it comes to offline side tournaments. EVO began doing that community showcase stuff for those games but you still have the SFxTs, MVCIs, DOAs, retro Soul Caliburs, retro Tekkens etc that barring some real sickos (like myself lmao) don't have anyone championing them even when they spent years at a time trying to git gud at them to chase the dream of esports immortality. I know people swear up and down by Tekken 5 DR, how come more people aren't pulling up to run that? NOTE: MVCI has had people like Jako and Doncon singing the game's praises and keeping the torches lit even before this Beyond thing came out and I'm glad they're finally getting their time in the sun. Was just talking about how the more recent legacy games tend not to have the same level of consistent turnout vs the poverty gang.
The only time i've seen something like this happen, it was about the return of the korean pros to broodwar after leaving Starcraft 2. But that seem to have been born out of Starcraft 2 stopping getting support, and no Starcraft 3. In a world where there's no new games to hop on, suddenly, it's easier to go back to the one you like better.
people would rather nostalgia cope on twitter than actually booting up the old games. anyone who enjoys old games more than the new ones is playing them and not on twitter complaining
Might be just me, but something in SFV make it look a bit dry compared to others. Because I like to play SFIV every now and then... However SFV?! Not so much. :/
I've been using this time to play older fighting games to take a bit of a break from my main games. SF6 is indeed a quality product in terms of what it does as a fighting game, I'd just want to wait till more characters come to the fray. I'll keep on an eye on it but it's just time to boot up some SF4/5 to just improve more as a player and play some sets.
We go through this every few years or so and everybody knows it, yet due to natural brain rot people say "the last game was better". lol And then when someone boots up a past game cause they feel like it, others get suspicious about a second coming or some shit like that. I play a shit ton of Rage Of The Dragons recently, and people constantly say "Is this back now?" and I'm like "Dude, I just like playing the game. Sit down and try it out." Wish all these guys wouldn't try to over complicate the reps that these games have, slow down, and just enjoy them whether new or old. We're constantly hearing shit like "Man, there's nobody online in this game" or "Yo, this a dead game" yet when I boot up DNF Duel at a local, people sit down and play me. People talk shit about DNF all day, but I just play what I wanna friggin' play.
Some the discourse I’ve seen are people reminiscing how much time and money was spent playing those 2010 fighting games. It makes me a bit sad that time has passed but happy the memories I made. I understand that the first experience/effort with a game will not always match what comes out next. Example, I don’t mess with T8. I still wouldn’t go out of my way to rally new people to play older Tekken to prove the old ways were the best. I didn’t like hearing that from old players who tell me Super Turbo, or whatever niche 90s game was better when I was trying to learn a new game. I still don’t want to do that to new players who just want to have fun in the future.
It's a particular veteran struggle. They are too old now and familiar with everything, and more "technical" because they start getting deeper into the games and as result more demanding and critical... unlike their childhood experiences with the games. So it's harder to please than before. Secondly they are a little (or sometimes a lot) immature about dealing with these fg hobbies and are contradictory about their childhood and current experienced. A few days ago a TK channel was speaking about retro games and stuff like asking why TK doesn't get retro collections like Capcom and SNK fgs, and the comments were filled with boomers speaking the best things in the world about TK3 and TK5. But the reality is that the TK community is extremely critical about the current balance of TK8 (more than the SF community), and that balance still is much superior to the balance of TK3 and 5. The fact is that most of those boomers refuse to criticize their childhood games using all their accumulated experience over the years. They turn off that side of their brain and will only turn it on again when dealing with a modern game (with zero attachment). Otherwise those old games would not survive being critically dissected to the smallest details. The same goes in the communities of Capcom fgs, SNK fgs, GG, etc.
Play what you want. Let the FGC be the toxic cesspool it is. If you like Tekken 7? Play it. SFV? Play it. Retro fighting games? Play them. Don’t let the tribe mentality of sociopaths peer pressure you into doing anything you don’t want to do or stop you from playing a game that you like.
I have been seeing this trend outside of the FGC also, a new entry comes out. It is hated, but as soon as the next one comes out, the last one is immediately put on a higher pedestal. Fans of the older entry start bashing the new ones and don’t get me started on the boomer fans who think the series went to shit right after the first entry or the entry that was their introduction to the series. It is a never-ending cycle.
One thing that my friends say and I agree is: what even is "real" Street Fighter for these people? Each iteration of SF is so dramatically different from each other. And I'm pretty sure that a lot of people still play 3S and USF4, if you want to go back just do it, nobody is forcing people to play SF6.
@@doogies Nah, I'm gonna say something right now. Alex Valle was on stream saying "Street Fighter EX isn't Street Fighter." Akira Nishitani, the guy who said he wanted to make people think SF1 was a knock-off, is the designer behind Street Fighter 2 and, prior to that, Final Fight. Two sequels and interpretations of what Street Fighter 1 was. He founded Arika after leaving Capcom and, you know, designed Street Fighter EX. When people are like "What is Street Fighter", treating that like some dumb philosophical question when you just don't have to know anything, is why that's such a stupid question to begin with. To keep it short, if a game by the guy who made Street Fighter what it is isn't "Street Fighter", because of vibes, I feel like the question itself isn't really about "Apple Jacks", it's about being too cowardly to even acknowledge history or who made these games. That's just not a question that's important to people, and when you can make Street Fighter a soulless tent pole, all the better I guess. Street Fighter as 2 defined it, is a game about strong projectile zoning and explosive options to compete with that, often represented by styles that have obvious counter match ups. A lot of modern Street Fighter kind of forsakes allowing that first part, so you get a lot of fireball/uppercut characters without an identity or are just characters who lose and need patches where Capcom is like "He was good, we didn't fuck up we promise." But even then, because so much of Street Fighter is about rejecting that, you're going to get eras with a chip on their shoulder and I feel like the most interesting Street Fighter games are the ones that don't treat the game as a hugbox brand that cleanly meshes together.
The only times I'm salty is when my game is super dead and I'm forced to play a more active game. Very grateful for the MVCI Beyond mod because I really liked that game but I couldn't find a single person to play. Stuff like Fighting EX Layer is basically on ice because nobody plays it which sucks. We need young blood that doesn't care as much about the money and just want to be that dude. The eSports bit you mentioned is super real but that's because a lot of pros/content creator are playing this shit to retire. There is none to very little passion. It's a job and that's ok. That's why as much as people complain about not seeing people try other things, game hopping and playing at a high level is hard and requires serious time and grind. Can't do that when that paycheck is needed and the competition is the hardest it's ever been. I just hope goons will stick around for City of the Wolves because I've waited 24 years for that game. Kinda glad they got some big guest characters in because that will definitely keep some people around. Definitely migrating to that as my main game because SF6 is fun but I just don't have a character that makes me want to go all in on the game yet and the lack of content has me bored as hell.
Most of the time communities near universally only want to play the new game (NRS games, Street Fighter), sometimes they stick with the favorite (Melee and whatever the newest Smash game), but oftentimes outside of fighting games new games equals a split in the community (Total War, Company of Heroes, Starcraft, World of Warcraft). For fighting games a big barrier to this is netcode and netplay. Had games had great rollback netcode forever, we could have largely SF Alpha 2, KOF ‘98, Soulcalibur 2, Tekken 5, Marvel 1, Marvel 3, Smash 64, SF4, Xrd scenes. Shoot all that Garou or KOF XIII hype might be real. Games like Guilty Gear XX might have more pronounced multiple scenes for different versions, much like SF2.
I'm gonna be saying things that were effectively said by Obama, explicitly/alluded to. I'll try to be explicit about where my points actually exist: So, yes, eSports. But not in the ironic, teehee it's fun to be edgy way. The main thing to consider is that with SFV going to SF6, a lot of the people who would embody the Retro Scene of SFV are playing SF6. Keeping up with the Hendersons of fighting games is that a lot of these players who are skilled are trying to play video games for a living. They're not "fans of a specific game" the way we think. Daigo doesn't make it a secret he really loves Street Fighter Zero 3. He's not the person who uses a dislike of a previous game to dress up what ultimately would be "I really like this one game." But he also knows his job is to be a "Pro Gamer" and so that means an obligation to what is current and keeping himself relevant. But that also means that like he has for A3 doesn't need to be quantified as some kind of shortcoming about some current or existing game. And I do think there are valid criticisms to be made of modern fighting games, but it would be outside of the lens of a fighter as a purely competitive exercise. A retro revival, specifically, is to have events that are ostensibly also about getting the spotlight as an "Event." People can front and bullshit about how it wouldn't involve a pot, but that's just to say that's part and parcel to communicating that something is a "big deal." We're talking about casuals that inevitably lead to a tournament. With Japan, you go to a fucking game center. You sit down, someone wants to play you, it won't even need a bracket. As long as there's one person or two people, you can just enjoy a game of KOF 2000 or Ninja Master's if Big One is any indication. The players who would need to participate in SFV are playing SF6 and it's not just the people who make a living doing it. It does make you question why someone is there, but even John Choi said of CVS2 "I play because of the competition, not necessarily the game" to paraphrase him. With company money dictating where people move, I think they're providing the incentive for the monkey's paw of what folks asked for. I don't get anything for Daigo getting what he wants as a professional gamer, despite what trickle down economics might say. This was a trajectory that players wanted and they made that reality happen. Despite what I've said, I think there's a difference between people who are competitive and trying to compete in the latest games and someone who might like an older game. I don't think I share the same interests and that's fine. I would rather be honest about that than say some disingenuous crap about a game when I could just say "I really like this old game, let's play it some time." It's hard to accomplish that as we realize that material community spaces don't exist or are drying up. It's what creates this adversarial or contentious relationship with corporate money. That social media clout chasing doesn't pass the smell test.
I think a lot of the reason why these retro games struggle as well is because they don't really have a champion who's very vocal about how awesome the game is. I think a perfect example would be the Marvel vs Capcom community always a bunch of content creators who goes out their way to always promote the game regardless if it's good or not like MVCI.
What I think is weird is how fighting games are kinda interchangeable to a lot of people. Like they don't have their capital g Game. Like for me, Tekken 7 and Current Cope changed my life. I'm gonna be trying to get games for those until arthiritis takes me. It feels like a lot of people aren't finding games that speak to them on that level anymore. Why is that? For what it's worth, mbaacc and t7 for me were more about the people I was playing with than the games themselves, but I never felt "oh should I switch over to the new game cause everyone's playing it." I can't imagine dropping those games like that just because there's a new entry. tldr Why aren't people falling in love with specific titles?
i cant speak for everyone but it might just comes down to the smaller preferences and issues. i know thats how it is for me from my experiences as a relative newgen (my first fighting game was HFTF, first played on FC1 in like 2018), ive tried a lot of different fighting games, old and new. ive played GG, tekken 7 & 8, mvc3, sf3, sf6, and skullgirls, and each of them just feel like theyre missing something to me, so i just dont play them. its hard to really get deeply invested in a game unless you really love it, and there really hasnt been a fighting game that checks every box for me to love, really. i think it also comes down to the fact that some games that i think i would actually like to play (mvc3, sf4, and skullgirls) dont have as diverse of a community in terms of skill, or are just inactive. gotta be real, its pretty demotivating playing a fighting game when the main skill distribution you find are people either way worse or way better than you. where the mediocre players at for me to win and lose to dumb shit by? it sounds a bit silly, but not having people at my approximate skill level to play against really kills the ability for me to love the game, but that might just be a me thing. the journey of fighting against all kinds of people as you level up the kind of game you like playing the most in a fighting game that you like playing is the biggest appeal of the genre, so it becomes sad when the journey is stifled by a lack of level competition. anyway this is just my perspective on the matter. fighting games are sick af and i wish more people would just play more fighting games. the only way anybody can really find a game they love is to be willing to look for it. i know i still am! i just hope when i do find it i can find matches when i play it...
It's kind of wack when others talk about what they missed instead of playing that game. I still play Vampire Savior and VF4. I'll still boot up Tobal and try to get others interested in it. The "community" aspect of the FGC seems to be concerned with what's new, but praise the old stuff in memory only.
reality is no one posting on twitter about how much they miss "x" game is willing to do the work that other scenes do to keep their game relevant. games like 3rd strike, melty, +r , marvel and xrd all have people willing to put in their own time and money for no return in order to keep the scene floating. people just want the clout for posting old clips while having nostalgia for something they dont really care about in any meaningful way.
As someone who liked SFV more than 6 from the very beginning (there are dozens of us and we're tired, boss); The amount of new blood in SFV is... well, not really there. It's like it's this meme and all talk and the actual game hasn't received much of a boost.
At this point in my life is pointless to play anything competitive nowadays. Too much time to invest in something the rest of the community won't play or will argue to play something else.
Man, people just looking for validation to go back to play something.. I for one, am taking a break from modern, and going back to grind Persona, and learn XRD, they're strong discord communities.
the motivation used to be enjoyment and community. pursue things that bring you and others joy. now people stress about how they're 'investing their time'. everyone is worried they're spending time wrong. 'i don't want to spend time playing a dead game'. stressing about leisure. we're doomed as a society.
I started playing Cities Skylines the last week and I don’t think I’ve been this addicted to a game since I first played Fallout 3 or San Andreas. Hmm those are both set in cities…. I don’t think I’d be into Third Strike if it weren’t for that infrastructure that it’s had set up for decades. Yeah I definitely had some sort of City kink I didn’t know about, Lindbulm in FF9 was a BADASS city, airship public transit and all those organized districts.
i remember going into the 3rd year of sf4 and i was just done. I tried to go back to HDR and that was just fighting the same 10-15 guys. after over a month i just gave up. ngl i would have no problem going back for some sf5 but im sure it will end up the same way.
Lmao so true. Sooooooooo muuuuch of the modern big social platforms is nothing but people getting together and whining because of small inconveniences or slight imperfections in media or whatever and acting like 'oh we're gonna leave this or go back to the old thing or do this or do that' but it's not real, there's no substance there, it's just whining and hoping that that alone will make big changes. Not a passionate bone in these people's bodies. I'd go so far even as to say if they weren't so weak-willed they wouldn't even have half the gripes they do about the modern games, they just *want* to whine
5:50 i think tekken could get a 3s level scene for something like T5 or Tag 2 if they had accessable online options. But Bamco has said they don't want to split the playerbase, so it would have to come from something like fightcade.
Very true Obama! MKX/BBCF/+R are my most played games of 2024! However, that won’t make me magically forget I spent $130 before tax on MK1 at launch to get access to an incomplete beta version that took a year to be complete. Hey, at least I don’t play it!
Great discussion! From my personal experience, it mostly comes down to nostalgia. "The first fighting game you love and when you put Actual effort to learn its mechanics, no other FIghting game will NEVER replace that." And with all that knowledge gained over the years from playing your first fighting game, that knowledge can be a blessing or it can accidentally become a curse. And Once it becomes a "Relic of the Past," some players don't want to move on, or some folks don't know how to move forward; thus; they complain about, "Why the new game sucks. Whereas the old games were better." And Typically, what they actually mean, "My First Fighting game is the GOAT. Fuck Everything else." And sadly, that Cycle repeats over and over. I can empathize, but i say, "Fuck'em." Move on. There so many other things you can do. Take care Obama!
I dont think it is NECESSARILY the FIRST, could be another for diff reasons, but you get the gist. The experience around the game is something we often connect to the game. That said, sometimes they are right! Strive is ass, for example lol
Yes, and Personally, I would overall say STRIVE is a meh even though it's one of Arc System Works best Selling fighting games. Fortunately! I am grateful that I could go back and play the old ones with Rollback netcode instead of bitching about STRIVE. Ha ha ha.
I knew all the non-fightcade games were cooked when people were begging for a "Just play button" quick matchmaking set up in fighting games. It's really not a community, it's just a fighting game fandom.
I think looking at the design shifts from sfiv to v to vi the goal has also clearly been to keep moving people between those games. There are subtle differences but for the most part they've been designed to be about the same things so there just isnt that incentive to go back. 4 and 6 are different but not enough that it really feels like a different game. Meanwhile 3s and Alpha 2 have their own separate communities.
Oof the last one stings. But wouldn't count that out since competitors reasonably have some pride in them. Though I'm pretty 'looking back' happens in every era too. It's just that we now have a space that emphasizes them especially when drops of negativities mixed in.
I just miss soul calibur, been playing it for 20 years, idk if I’d travel to events for it but if they just released 2 5 or six with rollback, it would be my main game. I’ve always preferred soul caliber to Tekken especially 8, gonna try vf 6 when it comes out but damn, sucks to have your favorite franchise get left behind
I'm glad the Marvel community actually gives a shit and supports the franchise. The games and the community can be a mess at times, but they JUST PLAY THE DAMN GAME. When Marvel 3 dropped, the community gave it a run and the Marvel 2 players said "I prefer Marvel 2" and went back to it. MVCI dropped, everyone gave it a run and the ones that liked Marvel 3, kept playing Marvel 3. The ones that liked MVCI, kept playing MVCI. The ones that loved Marvel as a franchise played all of them. The finality of the games, I think, is what drives people to keep playing them. There's always something new to be discovered and new players to emerge. Yeah, you have mods, but they are more like "Dream Roster" mods as opposed to "This is the way the game should've been." (Barring Marvel Beyond, that was a necessary mod.) Nowadays, people want to claim some kind of "lost glory" that they perceived themselves having in an older game, instead of actually playing it because they truly love the game. The playerbase going back to an old game isn't going to suddenly land anyone a sponsorship or a bunch of viewers and followers on social media. As you said, it's a fairytale or a pipedream.
Idk man marvel community lowkey kinda lazy with the mod engineering lol. It's crazy mad games had community modded rollback in the 2000s but marvel 3 doesn't in 2025
I’m pretty sure people would rather ogle at (and if they could, draw) Morrigan & the occasional Felicia/Lilith/Hsien-ko than _actually_ play as them, let alone the game they came from.
100000000%. As a long term league player ( I know, sorry) I've seen this kinda doom-posting DAILY. Once the honeymoon phase of "new game/patch" ends, people go from blind love to blind hate, cherry picking with rose tinted goggles of "the good old days" like they didn't bitch and moan back then as well lol There is no such thing as an objectively perfect game, just a perfect personal experience. All games have something to love and loath about, if they didn't, they wouldn't be continuing on as strong as they are.
Like I love the combat of dmc4, hate that Dantes levels are just repeat content. But to say "the whole thing is bad cause of this one thing" just tells me that maybe u didn't vibe with it to begin with lol, maybe u should just accept that it's not the world's job to make everything tailor made to you, and learn to love and accept everything for what it is, even if it's not for you.
@Jetanium oh boy. Idk where to even start. It launched like it was a prealpha product , calling it half baked would be a compliment. The netcode didn't work, there was nothing in the game whatsoever, the game was like 20% completed and they pressed 'publish'. It took like 5 years to even get to a spot where it shouldve been from the release. The netcode never worked properly, when PC users got a fix they banned it, there was an online account requirement, there was a rootkit(!!!!!) which is very bad. The gameplay was boring stale and they removed everything that was good about sf4 like one frame links , super jump cancels , and in general made it for 'modern audiences' aka watered down just press buttons participation award stuff. The graphics style was half baked, stuff like banana hair was such a meme for a reason. I could go on and on but it's the worst sf game I remember
a Tekken 1 through Tag 2 collection would be great but it's a lot of games and 5 don't have a version with online play and they still haven't made TxSF
I personally love playing the retro games. Especially the alpha series. I love 4 and 5 personally, but I hate SF6 but not nowhere near as the SF3 series. The only thing I enjoy in 6 is the world tour mode. It just seemed to me like the newer games have no replayability or something, when I was very competitive and having fun online with 4 and 5. Like i can sit here and play all my physical copies of Tekken on Sundays and be happy stopping with Tekken 6.
Good lil discussion. we really mostly miss what it was like when it felt new and we were traveling, not bogged down with responsibilities and life
the fgc is hardly a Community nowadays, more fgcers play twitter than their favorite fighting games.
Yeah...I keep hearing these crazy takes over and over. I am just glad I am not on social media. Everyone just needs to play the games they enjoy and go to more locals.
True true
And the fanboys hating on the "rival" game. A little bit more than they hate their own game of course, judging from the amount of complaints.
@@carlosaugusto9821 tribalism is cringe and i'll never understand it
The FGC is offline, your locals, your regionals, and the other grassroots events. I'm sure there's some overlap, but a big portion of the twitter crowd are just fans that may or may not play the game. Yapping online does not make you part of the FGC, you have show up. But post-pandemic, with lots of local communities still rebuilding, it's easy to lose sight of that. Keep the faith ✊
"There are some games in some scenes, that as soon as the marketing budget dries up, the passion for the game evaporates almost immediately."
-Looks at mortal kombat
...As many such cases, I really think the falloff for strive-post support its gonna hit hard. Ironically the hardships Lumina has had, in turn, does galvanize people that if they still playing... they aint stopping.
You don't know how much that truth hurts right now lol its soooooo fucking sad to see it but I guess it is what it is *shrugs*
Strive is dead the very second ArcSys drop it
Ditto with 'BlazBlue: Cross Tag Battle', although it still has a playerbase.
I watched in real time that happen with Heroes of the Storm. Blizzard stopped support/sponsoring for the college esport scene and the game effectively died online. You can still play but it's nowhere near when it was before.
That last bit of "they miss when they were in the spotlight" or "they miss when this was new" holds so true even for non fighting games. I play Magic the Gathering and it's even more true with that. People most fondly remember the era that they first started grinding out tournaments.
Uncle Rico vibes
splinter twin's back baby!
I can feel you there. Like I was really hyped for Bloomburrow but then my friend group barely played it. Then when Duskmourn came out we played a lot more of that when I would rather have drafted Bloomburrow instead. It is what it is. I just have to go with what they like. There is real FOMO when content is flowing fast. I can be optimistic about that though. We are in an era of content prosperity.
KOF XIII fans are notorious for this in the SNK community. Those folks will do everything but play KOF XIII. If all the people who posted about Kim's pants played KOF XIII, the game would be the most popular fighting game in the world.
Yeah I just started learning kof 13 and it’s so hard to find games
The two most "poser fgc games" are KOF 13 and Darkstalkers/VSAV... but i never made up my mind of which is #1. Like, when the news came about the new Capcom collection with DS, then it looked like #1. And when the news came about KOF 13 Global Match, then it looked like the #1. KOF 13 loses to 98 in popularity still today, and DS/VSAV isn't big even in fightcade.
@@carlosaugusto9821 it’s VSAV for sure…I remember when Darkstalkers Resurrection dropped on PS360 and I was excited to learn the game. Got my fish bubble loops down and everything. 1 week in NOBODY was online, you p much had to hope someone was on Fightcade to get games.
It’s a shame bc the netcode was incredible, especially for the time, but VSAV is def the king of “fgs ppl like the idea of about but don’t actually play”.
Sounds like the Darkstalkers fanbase
KOF13 has been unplayable online for almost its entire lifespan. It’s only gotten decent netplay a couple years ago and by then it’s a game from over a decade ago.
Plus it wouldn’t matter if it did have a higher player count. Everyone says the same thing about people who like third strike and it’s easily the most popular and played retro fighter out there with higher fightcade numbers than some games that came out within the past 3 years. People just don’t like hearing people like things about games.
I KNEW Smash Bros wasn't a fighting game, cos they do just be booting up Melee and playing instead of pining for it on social media
There's a group going "less than 1000 players dead game" next to a group going "where are my updates" next to a group going "i hate that the game keeps changing" next to a group going "the last game was way better" next to a group going "I wish the game I liked came back (doesn't ever plan to play that game again otherwise)" next to a larger group going "i have no money" and they're all being marketed to by a snake oil salesman whipping his talented servants who he would be nothing without
and a group going “why don’t they make good, finished products anymore”
@stolensentience another separate group would try to break that question down into nuance but actually though the only people making finished products are small teams or a few fringe large teams led by snake oil salesmen wearing hearing aides
The worst part though is when later patches/additions just make the game worse, there's no real way to get people to play an older but better version of the game anymore.
Like everyone loved T7 seasons 1 and 2, but there's no real way to play that anymore. If you love Hyper Fighting but hate Super Turbo, you can just play Hyper Fighting on fightcade, but that's basically impossible for modern games nowadays with how patches worked.
Correct
they should add the thing sf4 had where you could choose patch versions
You really killed it with 7:56 there. Most people don't miss the game, they miss how the game made them feel. Max really summerized well in his video. 'The first game you actually put effort in, is the one you're gonna glaze the shit out of'.
It’s kinda mad how games made in 1999 due to fightcade and being given rollback usually have more active communities than games that came out in 2015
YUP
free accessible and on a popular platform is hard to beat
@@mopanda81and not playing underwater
yet Vsav is STILL dead
@@thefgcsensei4482 I was at the vsav side tourney at evo idk how much more alive you want it to be
"what's stopping them...drive" nice one there
6:08 there's never been a Tekken collection with netplay -- it would be super sick if they did that though.
yeah, the closest thing you can get to playing the older games on modern systems without emulation is tekken 6 and tag 2 on xbox series... kind of amazed they have never made an hd collecion for any of the games
Poverty GGXrd And BBCF: we were never e-sport, we will nevere die.
devil may crys brings out the power of the sarah bellum part of our brain
cerebella from skull girls? hell yeah brother
you sure you got one of those?
It really just comes off as people not really "loving" SFV as opposed to hating something about SF6.
Trying to get likes on Twitter is all it is
wait there’s street fighter games after 4?
As much as the FGC dogs on Melee. Those bastards could find a way to play Melee during the Rapture due to how attached that community is to that game. A lot of the work it takes to “revitalize” older games is on the community due to the fact there’s zero incentive for companies to rerelease and update those games, and when the community DOES try to add modern accessibility features to those games the companies may harass them. In my opinion, if you want people to play older games either start a movement that gets bigger names involved (like Sajam or some dweeb to make a video) or make so much noise that you make said companies slightly more interested in giving you what you want.
i usually dog on smash as a "fighting game" but ill give the community something: they are passionate b#tches. like you said man, they will keep melee, brawl, 64 alive for years to come. the only one that comes close is probably 3rd strike, but even than smash just.. smashes it.
On a serious note there has been a noticable trend where the large majority of a game's playerbase will drop off after the game is announced to be completely finished, and I'm afraid this mindset might have led to games that stay in an infinite "early access" and a competitive drive among the top billing companies to steal as many of those players as possible with every new release, tossing crowds of people around with no real end goal beyond "keep working on this game forever" or "always be releasing a new thing every 1 to 2 years".
There's not enough people playing games, especially fighting games, for this to be able to continue for any length of time. Eventually either we'll all feel cheated enough out of costumes or features or updates that we stop buying the new things, or the crowds get so spread out that companies can't rake in millions of dollars to waste on a few rich company heads, before deciding who to lay off next.
Indie game devs save us
I find it quite interesting that this happens a lot more in RTS games. Like Company of Heroes has 3 entries now over the years and so it has 3 separate communities
Dawn of War as well. I love Dawn of War 2, but the people who play that are not the same people who played. Dawn of War 1 (We don't talk about 3 LOL).
@@ramijackson3978 Dawn of War 3 was a mistake. Let us never speak of it again.
This is why I appreciate sf4 so much. The arcade aspect is so important to fighting games. Capcom dropped the ball when they didn’t deliver a mvc3 cabinet. Pretty much turned everyone into hermit crybabies.
Facts! I remember practicing at home just to go to the local arcade to display my skills. I ended up meeting so many rivals and friends there. Community completely was cut in half when MVC3 dropped, you’re right about that.
Yeah, kinda made the scene wack too. Like all these weirdo hit boxes and pads. That’s not the way the game is supposed to be played imo. Arcades were the trenches man and you would get embarrassed and clowned if your game wasn’t right.
Dude I stopped with that scene once players started wearing those tight jerseys and I couldn’t bring my 12 pack of beer in. Those old days were messy and I’m glad I was apart of that mess.
@@Elnino420Swing and a miss here. If you remove pad players and hitbox players from the equation, you cut down our numbers massively and we're already small
@@doublevendetta hey I never said anything about removing them, they definitely expanded the game. I just said it became lame. Like people were using short cuts for charge characters. That’s not the way the game is supposed to be played but players make a living off this game so they need to find the most optimal to continue to get to that check.
I also thing modern games having frequent patch cycles diminishes the players attachment to any one game, bc you're kinda relearning new stuff all the time, so players are conditioned to move onto the new thing when it pops up. Oldheads played for *decades* on a single 3S, MvC2 or VF5 version, which builds a different type of engagement than some semi-live-service season model where you regularly expect to suddenly abandon strats, tech and even whole characters.
Also, in arcades everyone was in a physical space with the games side-by-side, so players choosing to stick with an older game was as simple as everyone there agreeing they didnt wanna spend money on one machine vs another. These days, getting matches in a depopulated old game is a fundamentally different experience.
Every time I see umvc3 as retro I die inside
14 years
It's old man, you're old. OST is still great though.
it’s time for the mahjong retirement home old man
Yeah UMVC3 got old real fast, didn't âge well
I think the scene to keep an eye on for this is MvC:I. Max gave that scene a CRAZY shot in the arm, and I love to see the game, it's players, and the update get the flowers it deserves. But maybe even 6 months from now, the people still playing it will probably be the people that never stopped.
Lets revisit this in 2 months
Something tells me that if we still played KI then we would’ve been in the good timeline
Sincerely, someone who’s never played KI
a lot of this is simple nostalgia. people complain about balance or the new shit or say they miss the other game, not because of any one issue, but because they miss the Moment. and the Moment can never come back, it wasn't because the game was any better, it was the totality of the experience, the people they were playing with, the excitement and the movement, all of it coming together to create an experience you'll only ever get exactly once.
anyway ending this thought with "have I said anything stupid this stream??" indicates you've got the kind of humility that shows you're a man of the people.
Pretty sure I get to that point in the end. They miss other elements that they rope in with the game
y'know it's deliver time when obama straight up pauses the game to speak to the chat lol
Think the FGC also just loves too many games all at once. Most other genre's have maybe 1 or 2 games dominating the esports side. While fighting games spreads it's community over 3-4 big ones (SF, Tekken, GG etc...), a couple of medium sized ones (UNI, KOF, GBVSR), and like 50+ other retro games. Don't think any other videogame genre's have events like CEOTAKU, were they still have tourneys for SNES games and obscure doujinshi fighters.
I don't know, there are many claims in the fgc about the current market not having enough franchises and that there's a big deficit of names since the 00's. And that the scene is too concentrated in a few veteran franchises... and whenever something different comes out it is a kind of derivative game exploiting a 3rd party franchise (P4A, DBFZ, GBFV, DNFD, 2XKO, HxH, etc).
In the 90's Capcom made SF, Darkstalkers, Marvel, Cyberbots, Jojo's Bizarre Adventure, Red Earth, Rival Schools, Star Gladiator, etc. SNK made Fatal Fury, Art of Fighting, Samurai Shodown, KOF, Savage Reign, The Last Blade, etc. And these are only two companies. There were many companies making a few small games, either 2d or 3d, or original or based on a 3rd party (notably animes).
@@carlosaugusto9821 the 90s and early 2000s brought a lot of new fighters to the table, but the 2d crash at the turn of the millennium fucked over 2d fighters until SF4. Then 3D fighters fizzled out around the early 2010s, leaving only Tekken, Soulcalibur and DOA. And the latter two died(VF’s coming back, thankfully)
This is 100% true, one fighting game already requires a lot of investment but then you realize there's like ten thousands of them.
Something about "it's not easy too when your playerbase is older and they have other shit on their plate besides fighting games" got me thinking too about our local circles in a sense.
Good thing BBCF will never have these issues 🔥
Never doubt a BB fan. They WILL play BB forever. They mean it. Nothing else feels like BB and no BB fan would want anything but BB.
I think a perfect example of the fans keeping a scene alive is the mvc2 scene
Melee and 3s as well l
Super Turbo
SF2/ST because it's older
MVC2 and Melee are crossovers with huge appeal tbh. They will never lack a shortage of fans who either focus on gameplay or novelty aspect.
It's much harder for individual IPs to stack against that. Especially when you don't have huge content creators in those spaces. Like it or not, people with big followers can make or break a game. Killer Instinct wouldn't be as strong as it is today without Max pushing it or bringing a spotlight to it.
Those are all pre 2010...
If they got what they wanted in a SF game, they'd be playing KoF instead.
Street Fighter players are hipsters who show up to the party wearing a Third Strike band t-shirt and start praising bands they haven't actually listened to since they were teenagers
This is the best part of the smash scenes. After each game died, new top players still emerged for the old shit. They made netcode, they did the village thing, etc. Key dif is that Nintendo has actively sabotaged the competitive scene/streaming, so there was never a corporate sugar daddy to rely on like what the FGC has in capcom/bamco
Yes and No. Brawl was the last one with that type of community, then the community truly split: One side stayed trying to get the corpo money when it did come through Smash 4 and Ultimate when they came out, and the other side of the scene stayed true to the older games with the PM/P+ and Melee/64. Some if not most of the old Brawl heads stayed with the money and with Smash 4 cause the game's style was similar enough to brawl that they could stay successful, the the rest stayed either with Brawl and the older games or just moved on. The community is still a bit tighter tied together because of what you mentioned with Nintendo, but the Smash scene still has these problems.
@ i think part of it is that brawl had tripping just to cut the legs off our competitive ambitions. We still played it and it was a super expressive game if you got deep into the weeds, but the overall smash track record is pretty solid when it comes to old school scenes surviving. Smash def has this issue but to a lesser extent i feel. That said, the retro issue is way better to have than the no-developer-support issue anyway hahaha
There are 2 big communities in Smash: Melee and the newest game, with Project M and Smash 64 having smaller scenes.
All the games since Brawl have very similar DNA and play very similar, whereas 64, Melee and Brawl all feel like different series.
@@Rubberbandman1991 Kind of, even for newer games there isn't really any real money in smash. When smash 4 came out the brawl scene was already pretty much dead and when Ultimate came out the smash 4 scene was def dying and people were really done with it, the transition for those players was very frictionless if they already liked brawl because they're fairly similar to each other, ultimate is basically Brawl 3.
Melee continues on because every new smash game keeps bringing new people into the scene and many of those new players end up preferring Melee long term, which keeps the scene healthy. Of course it's only because of the groundwork that the melee heads did the revive the game after brawl almost killed it and the fact that there are a lot of people dedicated in building things that keep Melee accessible for new players.
But all of that only happened because brawl was extremely divisive and there was 0 monetary incentive to play it against your will, which kept being true for s4 and ult. If people were winning real-ass nintendo money from brawl, s4 or ult when they were active, Melee wouldn't have survived like this no doubt about it. If brawl had nintendo money *AND* also played like a sequel to Melee no one would be talking about melee today for sure.
Crazy how the melee scene is more FGC than most modern FG communities and people will still argue that it's not a fighting game.
lets not get crazy here lol
If nothing else, if there is someone or a group of people that fight to keep your older title relevant, do what you can to support - as much as attending or donating to the pot or as little as signal boosting their events. Some scenes just need a hero.
Talking about VF6 marketing budget drying up with the dark ominous music in the background…”Will you really be playing that…with a wife and kids???”….The music gets louder
I'm kinda over being picky about fighting games. The FGC is so small at this point. I'll play literally any fighting game I own if another person wants to play it. I'll play the new game, the old game, SF, MK, MVC, KF, SamSho.
I see these people hating on games, picking sides. It's all in the mind. You can choose to have fun if you just love to fight.
I cannot imagine being one of the dudes that only plays SF or Tekken or MK or smash or something lol.
Really needed this vid, thank you
Damn I miss Tekken 7
Any time!
I like a lot of older games that my growing locals scene just… doesnt jive with at all. Every locals I bring over setups for KOF 2002UM, Tekken 4, SNK Heroines, KOF 98… but I never really get anyone playing them. Everyone just goes for the Main games. I really hope the answer isnt just that I have to put up a $1000 pool to get more people playing but it sounds like it might just be that. Im not good enough at any of these games to properly explain to people why I love them so dearly but I hope with enough dedication I can get the random player to sit down for some longsets in 2002um. I bet your scene in Mikaido was really cool obama.
TK4 is divisive even to a lot of boomers, but TK5DR and TTT1 are appealing retro titles. And SNKH isn't appreciated at all, but KOF 98 and 02um are some of the biggest ones.
Still in the case of KOF, the place where you live makes a difference. SNK has very little value in North America (it was worse before KOF 13 but it still feels an "outsider" to the culture), but the company and the games got more attention in some other places, especially Latin America and China. In those places i believe it would be easier to find people wanting to play KOF 98, 98um, 02 or 02um, or also 97, maybe even more than KOF 15.
it's still great you love those games though, I think trying to tell them, even if you can't properly articulate it might get something across, or at least some visual to show them; go for broke
if anyone wanted to play t4 or heroines with me, id probably foam at the mouth and kneel over. those are some of the most fun ive had with fighters.
Best way to end a video...
"Have I said anything stupid this stream"
xD
I miss whatever game I have subjectively decided I peaked in, or perhaps me and whatever other friends were also peaking.
Lol
I watched someone queue sfv the other day. Took a whole 5 minutes to get a game and they got 1-and-doned like damn in 2025???
I think a lot of people miss that it isn't even necessarily commentary on the quality of the games, new or old. A lot of people are just older and got a mortgage, car payment, and a family. Or hell even if you don't got any of those things money exists now in this space that didn't prior to 2010 and that's just going to change decisions regardless of how much you hate or love the old game or the new game or what the better game even is. That's all ON TOP of the other things like reliving glory days, competing being a new experience etc.
Im a Street Fighter player the country im in had no CPT support during the SFV era, the only really big thing we got was the intel world open. But we had a healthy scene with locals throughout the country and majors as well. What I find interesting is the amount of entrants for SFV had a steady decline over the years. But with SF6 it was an extremely sharp decline in year 2 and is already at the end of SFV level of entrants.
Sfv gave pc players access to the scene. That’s a huge impact and it was a lot of peoples first fighting game or first fighting game they competed (by actually playing ppl online for the first time or competing on a higher level for the first time).
Sf6 just came out and didn’t change anything besides gameplay. So no impact beside the gameplay…it’s been over 5 years since sfv came out so if you don’t love the grind of fighting games you probably don’t care to really play sf6.
I was one of the kids that thought I would be going to tourneys and maybe competing when sf4 came out, nope. Shits too hard for how much I care about it, I just wanna have some fun hitting buttons and combos. I just play 3rd strike and umvc3 now. I feel like going back to sfv ain’t a bad idea if it’s gaining some popularity again. It’ll help sf6 retain its popularity too, sf4 did this for sfv (imo)
After 2012 I just gave up fighting games in general (competitively) cause I didn’t care that much, but 5 years before that, I thought I did. I just love the scene because it’s family. I didn’t care to compete, I just wanna have fun.
So for Sf6, I think it’ll be fine. People play what they want to, if the sponsors leave cause the money ain’t there, they’ll come back when it is. Just keep those locals going and they’ll turn into majors. Maybe your scene can help revitalize the whole scene in general. I feel like that’s what the Middle East did with t7 the last 5 or so years. Korea and Mexico did it with kof13 10 years ago, it can happen for sf6. Just keep having fun and if you like competing, go compete!
@@AbstractHomosapien Im not actually sure if its specifically that reason. Im actually not sure what it is with SF6 it just seems really weird going from no CPT events in SFV to being included in a world warrior region in SF6 yet the player base has decreased. For example our nationals major first year of SF6 had 54 entrants (which was around what SFV was getting the last 2 years of it) then down to 38 entrants the 2nd year.
Im not sure if its a mix of people not enjoying the game as much or other life responsibilities. When our country was included in the Intel world open for SFV the online qualifiers were getting like 50-70 entrants bringing back a lot of people who dropped the game a few years earlier.
nostalgia plays a huge role in most of the discussions had on FG twitter, and I am no different from other when it comes to nostalgia. I still love Garou and CVS2, but I also think there is a huge opportunity presented in the modern age of FGs. To me the biggest learning opportunity is in the choices devs choose with their games, and whether those choices create a better game on the long run. This is combined with all the discourse and publishing decisions. Therefore, my enjoyment of FG is through a different perspective.
2:08 pthis actually happened with mvci, ia giant fan patch came out that fixes a lot of stuff people didnt like about vanilla mvci
Genuinely people need to be told what to do. Like told what to like, patches to tell them what’s good etc…
Theirs no love anymore people gotta be told what to love. It’s not hard to keep playing bbcf or mvc2 or SSBM. You got your friends that play that love it with you just play. Trying out new games to try them is great but if they straight up suck don’t play them.
This is why I’ll always believe SF players aren’t real fans.
Ok, but wanting to play a new release is the most normal thing in the world. It was always that way since the 80's... and many games, inside and outside the fg genre, had yearly sequels even. I don't know why but there is a normal tendency to try the new thing, and the industry of the time was exploring that reality.
In fgs, Capcom grew their library a lot over the mid 90's, and companies like SNK made even more fgs, each one with yearly sequels. Then in 3d fgs, the sequels used to come out in 1-2 years overall. And outside fgs, most Megaman games in the 80's and most of the 90's had yearly sequels. And early Castlevania games, early Final Fantasy games, etc... lots of other things came out every 1-2 years.
And there were a few exceptions of an extremely disappointing sequel that ended up getting less attention, but as long as the following sequel is good the momentum is totally recovered. The general tendency was not broken at all. Like SSF2T saving SSF2, SFA2 saving SFA1, SF3 3S saving NG and 2I, etc.
@ obviously you want to and should move on. But some sequels straight up suck.
💯 I've had street fighter fans say how much they like kof 13. I know they are fake as fuck. Who the fuck plays that? No mention of the games people actually play in that scene. 98 and 2002. They watched a top 10 fighting game video or jwong do combo trials. Street fighter fans are fake as fuck no offense.
@@carlosaugusto9821 k but not attaching yourself to something you hate is also pretty normal
You worded perfectly what I've always been wondering, the retro/poverty scene seems to always be popping as long as it's something SUPER niche, like deep cut Vortex Gallery mainstays Karnov etc. If you're trying to keep alive something that had a clear esports push in the modern era and its time ran out when the new game came out, those games are usually quite dead when it comes to offline side tournaments. EVO began doing that community showcase stuff for those games but you still have the SFxTs, MVCIs, DOAs, retro Soul Caliburs, retro Tekkens etc that barring some real sickos (like myself lmao) don't have anyone championing them even when they spent years at a time trying to git gud at them to chase the dream of esports immortality. I know people swear up and down by Tekken 5 DR, how come more people aren't pulling up to run that?
NOTE: MVCI has had people like Jako and Doncon singing the game's praises and keeping the torches lit even before this Beyond thing came out and I'm glad they're finally getting their time in the sun. Was just talking about how the more recent legacy games tend not to have the same level of consistent turnout vs the poverty gang.
The only time i've seen something like this happen, it was about the return of the korean pros to broodwar after leaving Starcraft 2.
But that seem to have been born out of Starcraft 2 stopping getting support, and no Starcraft 3. In a world where there's no new games to hop on, suddenly, it's easier to go back to the one you like better.
people would rather nostalgia cope on twitter than actually booting up the old games. anyone who enjoys old games more than the new ones is playing them and not on twitter complaining
remind yourself every day to never be like them
Might be just me, but something in SFV make it look a bit dry compared to others. Because I like to play SFIV every now and then... However SFV?! Not so much. :/
I've been using this time to play older fighting games to take a bit of a break from my main games. SF6 is indeed a quality product in terms of what it does as a fighting game, I'd just want to wait till more characters come to the fray. I'll keep on an eye on it but it's just time to boot up some SF4/5 to just improve more as a player and play some sets.
We go through this every few years or so and everybody knows it, yet due to natural brain rot people say "the last game was better". lol
And then when someone boots up a past game cause they feel like it, others get suspicious about a second coming or some shit like that. I play a shit ton of Rage Of The Dragons recently, and people constantly say "Is this back now?" and I'm like "Dude, I just like playing the game. Sit down and try it out."
Wish all these guys wouldn't try to over complicate the reps that these games have, slow down, and just enjoy them whether new or old. We're constantly hearing shit like "Man, there's nobody online in this game" or "Yo, this a dead game" yet when I boot up DNF Duel at a local, people sit down and play me. People talk shit about DNF all day, but I just play what I wanna friggin' play.
Best policy
Some the discourse I’ve seen are people reminiscing how much time and money was spent playing those 2010 fighting games. It makes me a bit sad that time has passed but happy the memories I made. I understand that the first experience/effort with a game will not always match what comes out next. Example, I don’t mess with T8. I still wouldn’t go out of my way to rally new people to play older Tekken to prove the old ways were the best. I didn’t like hearing that from old players who tell me Super Turbo, or whatever niche 90s game was better when I was trying to learn a new game. I still don’t want to do that to new players who just want to have fun in the future.
It's a particular veteran struggle. They are too old now and familiar with everything, and more "technical" because they start getting deeper into the games and as result more demanding and critical... unlike their childhood experiences with the games. So it's harder to please than before. Secondly they are a little (or sometimes a lot) immature about dealing with these fg hobbies and are contradictory about their childhood and current experienced.
A few days ago a TK channel was speaking about retro games and stuff like asking why TK doesn't get retro collections like Capcom and SNK fgs, and the comments were filled with boomers speaking the best things in the world about TK3 and TK5. But the reality is that the TK community is extremely critical about the current balance of TK8 (more than the SF community), and that balance still is much superior to the balance of TK3 and 5. The fact is that most of those boomers refuse to criticize their childhood games using all their accumulated experience over the years. They turn off that side of their brain and will only turn it on again when dealing with a modern game (with zero attachment). Otherwise those old games would not survive being critically dissected to the smallest details. The same goes in the communities of Capcom fgs, SNK fgs, GG, etc.
Tbf sometimes those old dudes are right lol
Play what you want. Let the FGC be the toxic cesspool it is. If you like Tekken 7? Play it. SFV? Play it. Retro fighting games? Play them. Don’t let the tribe mentality of sociopaths peer pressure you into doing anything you don’t want to do or stop you from playing a game that you like.
this is why I go my own way
At the end of the day? You’re the one with the stick in your hands. You’re the driver, not the passenger. You can drive wherever you want.
I have been seeing this trend outside of the FGC also, a new entry comes out. It is hated, but as soon as the next one comes out, the last one is immediately put on a higher pedestal. Fans of the older entry start bashing the new ones and don’t get me started on the boomer fans who think the series went to shit right after the first entry or the entry that was their introduction to the series. It is a never-ending cycle.
You can change "street fighter" with "Smash" and this would still be 100% correct, Melee and all.
im aware lol. Brawl comes to mind
One thing that my friends say and I agree is: what even is "real" Street Fighter for these people?
Each iteration of SF is so dramatically different from each other.
And I'm pretty sure that a lot of people still play 3S and USF4, if you want to go back just do it, nobody is forcing people to play SF6.
U cant tell these people that tho lol
@@doogies Nah, I'm gonna say something right now. Alex Valle was on stream saying "Street Fighter EX isn't Street Fighter." Akira Nishitani, the guy who said he wanted to make people think SF1 was a knock-off, is the designer behind Street Fighter 2 and, prior to that, Final Fight. Two sequels and interpretations of what Street Fighter 1 was. He founded Arika after leaving Capcom and, you know, designed Street Fighter EX.
When people are like "What is Street Fighter", treating that like some dumb philosophical question when you just don't have to know anything, is why that's such a stupid question to begin with. To keep it short, if a game by the guy who made Street Fighter what it is isn't "Street Fighter", because of vibes, I feel like the question itself isn't really about "Apple Jacks", it's about being too cowardly to even acknowledge history or who made these games. That's just not a question that's important to people, and when you can make Street Fighter a soulless tent pole, all the better I guess.
Street Fighter as 2 defined it, is a game about strong projectile zoning and explosive options to compete with that, often represented by styles that have obvious counter match ups. A lot of modern Street Fighter kind of forsakes allowing that first part, so you get a lot of fireball/uppercut characters without an identity or are just characters who lose and need patches where Capcom is like "He was good, we didn't fuck up we promise." But even then, because so much of Street Fighter is about rejecting that, you're going to get eras with a chip on their shoulder and I feel like the most interesting Street Fighter games are the ones that don't treat the game as a hugbox brand that cleanly meshes together.
The only times I'm salty is when my game is super dead and I'm forced to play a more active game. Very grateful for the MVCI Beyond mod because I really liked that game but I couldn't find a single person to play. Stuff like Fighting EX Layer is basically on ice because nobody plays it which sucks.
We need young blood that doesn't care as much about the money and just want to be that dude. The eSports bit you mentioned is super real but that's because a lot of pros/content creator are playing this shit to retire. There is none to very little passion. It's a job and that's ok. That's why as much as people complain about not seeing people try other things, game hopping and playing at a high level is hard and requires serious time and grind. Can't do that when that paycheck is needed and the competition is the hardest it's ever been.
I just hope goons will stick around for City of the Wolves because I've waited 24 years for that game. Kinda glad they got some big guest characters in because that will definitely keep some people around. Definitely migrating to that as my main game because SF6 is fun but I just don't have a character that makes me want to go all in on the game yet and the lack of content has me bored as hell.
Most of the time communities near universally only want to play the new game (NRS games, Street Fighter), sometimes they stick with the favorite (Melee and whatever the newest Smash game), but oftentimes outside of fighting games new games equals a split in the community (Total War, Company of Heroes, Starcraft, World of Warcraft).
For fighting games a big barrier to this is netcode and netplay. Had games had great rollback netcode forever, we could have largely SF Alpha 2, KOF ‘98, Soulcalibur 2, Tekken 5, Marvel 1, Marvel 3, Smash 64, SF4, Xrd scenes. Shoot all that Garou or KOF XIII hype might be real. Games like Guilty Gear XX might have more pronounced multiple scenes for different versions, much like SF2.
I'm gonna be saying things that were effectively said by Obama, explicitly/alluded to. I'll try to be explicit about where my points actually exist: So, yes, eSports. But not in the ironic, teehee it's fun to be edgy way. The main thing to consider is that with SFV going to SF6, a lot of the people who would embody the Retro Scene of SFV are playing SF6. Keeping up with the Hendersons of fighting games is that a lot of these players who are skilled are trying to play video games for a living.
They're not "fans of a specific game" the way we think. Daigo doesn't make it a secret he really loves Street Fighter Zero 3. He's not the person who uses a dislike of a previous game to dress up what ultimately would be "I really like this one game." But he also knows his job is to be a "Pro Gamer" and so that means an obligation to what is current and keeping himself relevant. But that also means that like he has for A3 doesn't need to be quantified as some kind of shortcoming about some current or existing game. And I do think there are valid criticisms to be made of modern fighting games, but it would be outside of the lens of a fighter as a purely competitive exercise.
A retro revival, specifically, is to have events that are ostensibly also about getting the spotlight as an "Event." People can front and bullshit about how it wouldn't involve a pot, but that's just to say that's part and parcel to communicating that something is a "big deal." We're talking about casuals that inevitably lead to a tournament. With Japan, you go to a fucking game center. You sit down, someone wants to play you, it won't even need a bracket. As long as there's one person or two people, you can just enjoy a game of KOF 2000 or Ninja Master's if Big One is any indication.
The players who would need to participate in SFV are playing SF6 and it's not just the people who make a living doing it. It does make you question why someone is there, but even John Choi said of CVS2 "I play because of the competition, not necessarily the game" to paraphrase him.
With company money dictating where people move, I think they're providing the incentive for the monkey's paw of what folks asked for. I don't get anything for Daigo getting what he wants as a professional gamer, despite what trickle down economics might say. This was a trajectory that players wanted and they made that reality happen. Despite what I've said, I think there's a difference between people who are competitive and trying to compete in the latest games and someone who might like an older game. I don't think I share the same interests and that's fine. I would rather be honest about that than say some disingenuous crap about a game when I could just say "I really like this old game, let's play it some time." It's hard to accomplish that as we realize that material community spaces don't exist or are drying up. It's what creates this adversarial or contentious relationship with corporate money.
That social media clout chasing doesn't pass the smell test.
I think a lot of the reason why these retro games struggle as well is because they don't really have a champion who's very vocal about how awesome the game is. I think a perfect example would be the Marvel vs Capcom community always a bunch of content creators who goes out their way to always promote the game regardless if it's good or not like MVCI.
What I think is weird is how fighting games are kinda interchangeable to a lot of people. Like they don't have their capital g Game. Like for me, Tekken 7 and Current Cope changed my life. I'm gonna be trying to get games for those until arthiritis takes me. It feels like a lot of people aren't finding games that speak to them on that level anymore. Why is that? For what it's worth, mbaacc and t7 for me were more about the people I was playing with than the games themselves, but I never felt "oh should I switch over to the new game cause everyone's playing it." I can't imagine dropping those games like that just because there's a new entry.
tldr Why aren't people falling in love with specific titles?
i cant speak for everyone but it might just comes down to the smaller preferences and issues. i know thats how it is for me
from my experiences as a relative newgen (my first fighting game was HFTF, first played on FC1 in like 2018), ive tried a lot of different fighting games, old and new. ive played GG, tekken 7 & 8, mvc3, sf3, sf6, and skullgirls, and each of them just feel like theyre missing something to me, so i just dont play them. its hard to really get deeply invested in a game unless you really love it, and there really hasnt been a fighting game that checks every box for me to love, really.
i think it also comes down to the fact that some games that i think i would actually like to play (mvc3, sf4, and skullgirls) dont have as diverse of a community in terms of skill, or are just inactive. gotta be real, its pretty demotivating playing a fighting game when the main skill distribution you find are people either way worse or way better than you. where the mediocre players at for me to win and lose to dumb shit by? it sounds a bit silly, but not having people at my approximate skill level to play against really kills the ability for me to love the game, but that might just be a me thing. the journey of fighting against all kinds of people as you level up the kind of game you like playing the most in a fighting game that you like playing is the biggest appeal of the genre, so it becomes sad when the journey is stifled by a lack of level competition.
anyway this is just my perspective on the matter. fighting games are sick af and i wish more people would just play more fighting games. the only way anybody can really find a game they love is to be willing to look for it. i know i still am! i just hope when i do find it i can find matches when i play it...
It's kind of wack when others talk about what they missed instead of playing that game. I still play Vampire Savior and VF4. I'll still boot up Tobal and try to get others interested in it. The "community" aspect of the FGC seems to be concerned with what's new, but praise the old stuff in memory only.
reality is no one posting on twitter about how much they miss "x" game is willing to do the work that other scenes do to keep their game relevant. games like 3rd strike, melty, +r , marvel and xrd all have people willing to put in their own time and money for no return in order to keep the scene floating. people just want the clout for posting old clips while having nostalgia for something they dont really care about in any meaningful way.
big YUP from me. I stated this almost verbatim lmao
As someone who liked SFV more than 6 from the very beginning (there are dozens of us and we're tired, boss); The amount of new blood in SFV is... well, not really there. It's like it's this meme and all talk and the actual game hasn't received much of a boost.
thats my point. if they really were about that, its right there....but they dont. why do you think that is?
At this point in my life is pointless to play anything competitive nowadays.
Too much time to invest in something the rest of the community won't play or will argue to play something else.
5:31 DEAD OR ALIVE 6 in a nutshell bro
unc was spitting facts from the book of wisdom
we usually do. thanks for watching
Man, people just looking for validation to go back to play something.. I for one, am taking a break from modern, and going back to grind Persona, and learn XRD, they're strong discord communities.
Street Fighter 4 is so much more fun than 5 or 6. I wish it had kept an eternal user base like 3rd Strike and KOF 2002 did.
the motivation used to be enjoyment and community. pursue things that bring you and others joy.
now people stress about how they're 'investing their time'.
everyone is worried they're spending time wrong.
'i don't want to spend time playing a dead game'.
stressing about leisure. we're doomed as a society.
My man got that southern psychological insight dawg. Be sizin inwards up remotely, that shit is remarkable 🎉
lmao nah just call a spade a spade
@ 💯
UNI2. People call it a really defensive footsie based game. And it has rollback. Why does it have less than 200 players?
I started playing Cities Skylines the last week and I don’t think I’ve been this addicted to a game since I first played Fallout 3 or San Andreas. Hmm those are both set in cities…. I don’t think I’d be into Third Strike if it weren’t for that infrastructure that it’s had set up for decades. Yeah I definitely had some sort of City kink I didn’t know about, Lindbulm in FF9 was a BADASS city, airship public transit and all those organized districts.
i remember going into the 3rd year of sf4 and i was just done. I tried to go back to HDR and that was just fighting the same 10-15 guys. after over a month i just gave up. ngl i would have no problem going back for some sf5 but im sure it will end up the same way.
2:38 the crazies part is that nrs fans out of all fgc menaged to do that. They disliked mk1 so hard they stayed with mk11.
Who is they? They don't have impressive numbers at any events lol
Modern easily to get attracted but also easy to be forgotten. No matter those fighting genre or not.
Lmao so true. Sooooooooo muuuuch of the modern big social platforms is nothing but people getting together and whining because of small inconveniences or slight imperfections in media or whatever and acting like 'oh we're gonna leave this or go back to the old thing or do this or do that' but it's not real, there's no substance there, it's just whining and hoping that that alone will make big changes. Not a passionate bone in these people's bodies. I'd go so far even as to say if they weren't so weak-willed they wouldn't even have half the gripes they do about the modern games, they just *want* to whine
Talk2em
5:50 i think tekken could get a 3s level scene for something like T5 or Tag 2 if they had accessable online options. But Bamco has said they don't want to split the playerbase, so it would have to come from something like fightcade.
You are crazy lol
I say it every time. You’re the 🐐
We need more DMC games for more great discussions lmao
Very true Obama! MKX/BBCF/+R are my most played games of 2024! However, that won’t make me magically forget I spent $130 before tax on MK1 at launch to get access to an incomplete beta version that took a year to be complete. Hey, at least I don’t play it!
Back to plus R boys
@4:09 Oh my god snatch their cloaks away!
charge shot > buster > jump cancel > buster
it'll melt them like butter in a bonfire
we need the dmc 4 video asap
2:55 well put
Great discussion! From my personal experience, it mostly comes down to nostalgia. "The first fighting game you love and when you put Actual effort to learn its mechanics, no other FIghting game will NEVER replace that." And with all that knowledge gained over the years from playing your first fighting game, that knowledge can be a blessing or it can accidentally become a curse. And Once it becomes a "Relic of the Past," some players don't want to move on, or some folks don't know how to move forward; thus; they complain about, "Why the new game sucks. Whereas the old games were better." And Typically, what they actually mean, "My First Fighting game is the GOAT. Fuck Everything else." And sadly, that Cycle repeats over and over. I can empathize, but i say, "Fuck'em." Move on. There so many other things you can do. Take care Obama!
I dont think it is NECESSARILY the FIRST, could be another for diff reasons, but you get the gist. The experience around the game is something we often connect to the game.
That said, sometimes they are right! Strive is ass, for example lol
Yes, and Personally, I would overall say STRIVE is a meh even though it's one of Arc System Works best Selling fighting games. Fortunately! I am grateful that I could go back and play the old ones with Rollback netcode instead of bitching about STRIVE. Ha ha ha.
I knew all the non-fightcade games were cooked when people were begging for a "Just play button" quick matchmaking set up in fighting games. It's really not a community, it's just a fighting game fandom.
I think looking at the design shifts from sfiv to v to vi the goal has also clearly been to keep moving people between those games. There are subtle differences but for the most part they've been designed to be about the same things so there just isnt that incentive to go back. 4 and 6 are different but not enough that it really feels like a different game. Meanwhile 3s and Alpha 2 have their own separate communities.
true
Oof the last one stings. But wouldn't count that out since competitors reasonably have some pride in them.
Though I'm pretty 'looking back' happens in every era too. It's just that we now have a space that emphasizes them especially when drops of negativities mixed in.
I dig it
Just here to say you speaking 3AM factoids 🙌🏾
we aim to please
I just miss soul calibur, been playing it for 20 years, idk if I’d travel to events for it but if they just released 2 5 or six with rollback, it would be my main game. I’ve always preferred soul caliber to Tekken especially 8, gonna try vf 6 when it comes out but damn, sucks to have your favorite franchise get left behind
I'm glad the Marvel community actually gives a shit and supports the franchise. The games and the community can be a mess at times, but they JUST PLAY THE DAMN GAME. When Marvel 3 dropped, the community gave it a run and the Marvel 2 players said "I prefer Marvel 2" and went back to it. MVCI dropped, everyone gave it a run and the ones that liked Marvel 3, kept playing Marvel 3. The ones that liked MVCI, kept playing MVCI. The ones that loved Marvel as a franchise played all of them. The finality of the games, I think, is what drives people to keep playing them. There's always something new to be discovered and new players to emerge. Yeah, you have mods, but they are more like "Dream Roster" mods as opposed to "This is the way the game should've been." (Barring Marvel Beyond, that was a necessary mod.)
Nowadays, people want to claim some kind of "lost glory" that they perceived themselves having in an older game, instead of actually playing it because they truly love the game. The playerbase going back to an old game isn't going to suddenly land anyone a sponsorship or a bunch of viewers and followers on social media. As you said, it's a fairytale or a pipedream.
Idk man marvel community lowkey kinda lazy with the mod engineering lol. It's crazy mad games had community modded rollback in the 2000s but marvel 3 doesn't in 2025
You too shall know how the Vsav community feels. We shall not weep for thee.
That game came out way before 2010
@@doogies Weep
? No...think critically
I’m pretty sure people would rather ogle at (and if they could, draw) Morrigan & the occasional Felicia/Lilith/Hsien-ko than _actually_ play as them, let alone the game they came from.
100000000%.
As a long term league player ( I know, sorry) I've seen this kinda doom-posting DAILY. Once the honeymoon phase of "new game/patch" ends, people go from blind love to blind hate, cherry picking with rose tinted goggles of "the good old days" like they didn't bitch and moan back then as well lol
There is no such thing as an objectively perfect game, just a perfect personal experience. All games have something to love and loath about, if they didn't, they wouldn't be continuing on as strong as they are.
Like I love the combat of dmc4, hate that Dantes levels are just repeat content. But to say "the whole thing is bad cause of this one thing" just tells me that maybe u didn't vibe with it to begin with lol, maybe u should just accept that it's not the world's job to make everything tailor made to you, and learn to love and accept everything for what it is, even if it's not for you.
Im trying to forget sf5 even existed.
What was so bad about it?
@Jetanium oh boy. Idk where to even start. It launched like it was a prealpha product , calling it half baked would be a compliment. The netcode didn't work, there was nothing in the game whatsoever, the game was like 20% completed and they pressed 'publish'. It took like 5 years to even get to a spot where it shouldve been from the release. The netcode never worked properly, when PC users got a fix they banned it, there was an online account requirement, there was a rootkit(!!!!!) which is very bad. The gameplay was boring stale and they removed everything that was good about sf4 like one frame links , super jump cancels , and in general made it for 'modern audiences' aka watered down just press buttons participation award stuff. The graphics style was half baked, stuff like banana hair was such a meme for a reason. I could go on and on but it's the worst sf game I remember
@@GFClocked I vaguely remember that PC netcode fix. I haven't played SF seriously since 3rd Strike so I've been out of the loop.
@@Jetaniumyes
@@Jetaniumnetcode!!!!
a Tekken 1 through Tag 2 collection would be great but it's a lot of games and 5 don't have a version with online play and they still haven't made TxSF
after seeing late t7 and how t8 has been....do u really want TxSF? lol
@@doogies I did like how Akuma and Geese came out but the rage system bloat really has gotten outta control
I personally love playing the retro games. Especially the alpha series. I love 4 and 5 personally, but I hate SF6 but not nowhere near as the SF3 series. The only thing I enjoy in 6 is the world tour mode. It just seemed to me like the newer games have no replayability or something, when I was very competitive and having fun online with 4 and 5. Like i can sit here and play all my physical copies of Tekken on Sundays and be happy stopping with Tekken 6.
CVS2 collection is gonna drop
people are gonna run into JWong and refund the game so quick. lmao