Can we also talk about how DC victim blamed male grape victims, like Batman, Nightwing and Green Arrow for getting graped? They celebrate Damian‘s existince like Jesus Christ‘s birth, despite they victim blame Bruce.
@@garycannon4644 Black Canary victim blames Ollie in Green Arrow #1 (2001), Batman gets victim blamed in every comic since Morrison‘s run and Nightwing gets victim blamed in Nightwing (1996) #93 and in Nightwing #52.
I have been noticing this lack or twisted morality for a while in comics. I hate it. They keep trying to justify the villains and make police out to be useless losers. I have to ask some of these writers "Who's side are you on here?"
6:10 to answer that question, I think it's heavily implied this lady couldn't have been the killer because of her medical conditions. The even ends with a reveal that the real killer found who Ollie was.
"These places have insurance" - Batman Doesn't surprise me that Tom King turned Wonder Girls into a Kill Squad. Seems like something he'd do. That new Green Arrow costume looks a bit silly. Why does it have a mini cape?
These days? This has been going on for decades and not just for DC, the issue when Magneto and other X-Men like Archangel were allowed to slaughter entire cities and skated because they were too cool or the people in the cities were the wrong nationality(Russian) or proven serial killers like Poison Ivy and Harley Quinn because they’re bangably hot
Going along with the lack of morals in DC, I’ve noticed the characters all seem to curse a lot more. Sure, we don’t see the actual curse words, but they do that squiggly symbols thing to indicate the cursing. And it’s in a lot of the DC comics now.
Wonder Woman killing monsters/demons is one thing but killing Maxwell Lord was out of character and that event I blame the writers for not getting Diana right. WW would have sought help freeing Superman from Lord’s control by using a magical hero or a deity to resolve the main problem. The infinite crisis event was just horrible for WW because writers still give Diana the shaft! King on the other hand is just plain awful.
Yes. I never liked of the character anymore after this. I felt that Diana never was more well written in the right way after Max Lord incident. The N52 turned her into a Xena copycat basically. I hate it.
@@TMF979ResurgeThere’s no harm trying the first issue to see if you like it, we could have completely different taste in comics. But he’s the one writer in comics that I would never buy.
@@InfamyOrDeath-__- That's what my mom says, but I was pondering getting Supergirl Woman of tomorrow just to see what it was like, and if I don't enjoy it, I could always sell it
It kinda just feels like they're writing about what they think sounds the most politically correct and using these characters and medium as a platform to spread their personal message instead of writing something true to the character and their history. This is pretty damaging to the characters we love and showcases that these guys really have nothing interesting to write about and lack the skill to write from a characters perspective and voice
I think what the Green Arrow moment was going for was that she didn’t deserve to have her life taken from her by the cancer from the tainted water. The soul situation is abysmally sad. I think it’s poorly displayed in the book, but Ollie’s anger reads as coming from the whole situation itself leading to such a messed up end.
Thank you for making this video. I think this topic, in general, deserves more discussion: the superhero genre has to be morality stories where definite good triumphs over definite evil. Not all comics have to be superhero stories but superhero stories MUST be morally upright. Otherwise, it's a weird bastardization of something that ought to be good and inspiring.
Sadly it is too late for that now. They won't be getting Chuck Dixon back he works for rippaverse now and he does his own independent projects on the side, they burned that bridge.
@@Naglfar94 Also, there is a movie called Working Man with Jason Statham coming out. It's based on a series of novels by Chuck Dixon! We can always dream though...
6:25 Green Arrow was already a personification of the far-left. Whenever he argues with another superhero, there is an 80% chance he'll call them a fascist.
@@TMF979Resurge After Mike Grell did The Longbow Hunters he did a monthly from 1988-1994. During the run Ollie grew as a person to where his views evolved due to the things he experienced. I would not describe it as regression. You are just showing your own ignorance by making a statement like that.
@O_G_HELLBOY In true far left fashion. Labeling all your opponents as "fascists" is progressive. TMF979Regurgitate didn't get the memo that screeching fascist is played out.
I hate to tell you that fits the Green Arrow since the days of Neal Adams and Danny Oneil run with Green Arrow and Green Lantern. it fits. Since the woman killed the person who gave her cancer through the water. Green Arrow would goes against the company and big brother.
One other way of looking at Green Arrow and I could be wrong about this. Ollie is forever looking for a cause or reason to fight. The serial killer was caught. He was after bigger game now and with her dead, he couldn’t really go after what he saw as a bigger threat: that a company was poisoning its customers knowingly. He saw this company as the reason for her actions, which is flawed but as the cop said, not entirely wrong either.
"Fans can't ignore this..." Yes, yes we can. We've bedn ignoring books for years for sake of sanity. On the Marvel side what Spiderman fan can stay sane seeing the atrocities written? The only option is to ignore.
They need to put people who have good heart to write heroes, because the only thing i see is a bunch of costumed corrupted people without any morality traits, super heroic traits
Wonder woman being morally grey in the beginning of her career does feel right and make sense considering how she was raise, and having Steve Trevor and Etta Candy be her moral anchor on what's right and wrong is also an interesting concept
Wonder Woman never was a moral grey character even in your early days in Gold Age. He had a no killing rule and tried solve conflicts without violence,seeking redeem your foes. She supposed be a ideal heroine just like Superman
Honestly was never a Wonder woman fan. Never liked how inconsistent she is, but after all the depraved, terrible, and stupid things Tom King has done with this character, I can't stand her anymore.
They unconsciously show that a woman with Wonder Woman's abilities and powers would never be a morally positive heroine, she could even become a villain in the blink of an eye or if she is in those days.
Something like this happened in the MCU Capt. America(Falcom) and Bucky. They were sympathetic to a terrorist who grenaded innocent civilians. It's disturbing, really disturbing.
No one writes good villains anymore. I think it is because modern writers don’t want to label evil as evil as maybe don’t understand morality maybe? Is strange. 😢😢😢
You may be old, but it's never too late to start reading manga. They're not all cutesy and annoying and braindead like people make it out to be Attack on Titan Berserk Vagabond One Punch Man Akira Fist of the North Star And if you actually like it, you can graduate to some of the more crazy stuff like JoJo's Bizarre Adventure and Chainsaw Man. Manga character designs can look incredibly gay, and I totally get why older comic fans wouldn't want to touch it with a ten foot pole. But I assure you, these stories can be incredibly based, they were made for a male audience, they often celebrate and emphasize the positive aspects of masculinity, they encourage and uplift you to take responsibility and be a better person, there's no victim mentality bs, and heroes are heroic
I dropped Nightwing after six issues of Tom Taylor, and then with this series, three issues after Nightwing gave "beepers" to criminals. More "defund the police" bullshit. And after this most current issue of Green Arrow, I think I will be giving that book the boot also. I will not support amoral, lefties writing my iconic comic book characters.
@ that’s a pretty smart way of phrasing it , you made chocolate & meatloaf happen in the same sentence, I tip my hat to you sir and your masterful wordsmith
@ eh, glad you're a good sport about it, even if I made a typo in the comment. Just counting the days till Tom King gets cancelled for something sketchy he's likely done.
Seems pretty obvious, to me. These writers HATE these characters and are doing all they can to denigrate and defile them. Because these characters are rooted in "traditional' Judeo-Christian or American values they have to be destroyed. This has been going on since Avengers Disassembled, or earlier.
Yes, the year of 2004 marked the end of traditional superheroes storylines. We have Avengers Disassembled that ruined the Avengers for me and made the Marvel heroes taking a more militaristic aproach in how handle with conflicts. Meanwhile in DC we had Identity Crisis that took the DCU in a more dark and edge place that ended in that awful N52 reboot.
It appears Tom King has been angling for a spot in woke Hollywood as a script writer. "Tom King's Wonder Woman: Only on CW Network". Directed by Lesyle Headland.
It does seem like comics, just keeps wanting to repeat the same issues over and over again. For it like context doesn't matter or any sort of logical sense. they make up their mind on who going to be the bad guy for this story. Then just have the heroes be shock and in awe when a character does something that makes sense. The end result is heroes just look stupid, due to seeming like they can't understand context. While failing to paint x as a villain, due to writers failing to understand how their writing would come off to others.
Like you, Wes, I read all of these books, and I agree with you one hundred percent. DC Comics are hiring writers who know nothing about true crime and I bet you anything they would not defend their stance to someone who’s a victim of a heinous crime. Is this what they call DC writers privilege? I wish Alan Grant was still around as he would show this lot how to write properly. Funny thing is, both Nightwing and Green Arrow are great characters and there are elements in their books that I like.
I think with the green arrow stuff they were hinting that she’s the fall guy , I think someone else is the freshwater killer but if I’m wrong that’s would change my opinion on the series
When people start to relativize morality in comics this became a problem. But DC still have writers like Mark Waid that knows how to make heroes being heroes yet. Tom King is the problem, this guy don't know how heroism works in DCU. Batman can be a dark and brooding guy but he one of most moral and noble heroes in DCU. In other hand in Marvel universe is completely hopeless now. Every X-Men is a killer in these days and we have heroes like Captain America don't giving a shit about this because modern writers believe that even Steve Rogers don't care if facists are being killed in the most brutal ways possible. And even Spider-man is a quitter now. DCU still can be fixed but Marvel is a huge shit hole beyond to salvation now.
@@tayojones9460 Yes,he are. I don't deny this. But he still can make a good superhero comic more than any modern comic book hack that don't even believe in morality or heroism in first place.
This is what happens when studios support popularity over storytelling. I'm not against Harley Quinn being the alleged "4th Pillar" (I mean I am but women need something too I guess) but why does the 4th pillar have to be a codependent serial killer? It doesn't make any sense? Are you telling me the best we can do for an empowering female character is a literal goofy girl?
HQ sucks as an "antihero" even more as a """hero"""" Trying to put in the Batfamily was the most moronic thing they do! And all it's much worse in Injustice! And they havd the balls to say Batman is the most priviliged priviliged character of DC
What you expect ? If the writers doesn’t understand morality then you think their stories will have characters that do? They live in this post modern mindset with moral relativism. They also think that if you are bad then you can basically do whatever to that person because it’s justified. Where as in the past the hero would need to catch them in the act as well as show compassion and try to help the villain.
maybe they don't realise that just because you have a superhero make a chioce even in a grey situation that doesn't atomatically mean that what they did what right.
I leafed through the Green Arrow book yesterday … kept turning pages and GA appears like in two pages towards the end. I put it back immediately. Tom King, that fukken guy enjoys destroying continuity and superheroes’ dignity and morals.
Prediction: Cassie Sandsmark comes out as trans. Either MTF or FTM Of curse, MTF is going to make the love scene with Connor Kent (Super Boy), awkward.😁😁😁
Marvel pushing Daken as a gay Asian hero. This character murdered and raped countless people but everyone acts like it's cool the Krakoa shit said all mutant sin are forgiven. This dude never apologized, never had a hero arc, any kind of development or change other than the writers needed Iceman to have a dude to crush on.
@DeadpoolNegative i liked him as a younger more irredeemable version of Wolverine. And when fighting Logan he would have a slight edge being his son but now they want him to be the gay Dick Grayson of the Wolverine family and its stupid.
Are you sure you're reading Wonder Woman? Because Angle Man, Silver Swan and the other villains are all Sovereigns henchman and literally were in the team that attacked Wonder Woman. And the Wonder Girls have spent the last couple issues attacking Sovereigns operations. They didn't rob banks, they robbed Sovereign. Grundy was working for Sovereign. It honestly sounds like you just want to rage at Tom King even if you have to make up stuff to discredit him. It really hurts your credibility when reviewing his books.
I have a love/hate relationship with Wonder Woman, especially with the Tom King run. I'm not a huge Tom King fan. He starts off strong and then ends with a whimper most of the time. But I do love Daniel Sampere's art. Only two more issues! (And then I'm dropping the title). I dropped Green Arrow and Nightwing months ago. I've been buying more facsimile editions from the pre-Crisis era than anything.
Well, awful moral values are the main reason why the entertainment industry has been in decline since 2016. Out of fear, executives hire evil and untalented people who emotionally blackmail them, these individuals project themselves as characters in the works and ultimately destroy or replace the characters that came before. I remember that after I went to see "The Last Jedi" with my brother, we were walking across a bridge on our way home and reflecting on how we had already been spoiled about Jake's death and the ridiculousness of what happened with Snoke. We didn’t really care about the film and only watched it out of curiosity, but what struck us was the dumb humor and how morally broken it was. It could be summed up by saying: "The villains were evil, stupid, and self-defeating, and the "good guys" were also evil, stupid, and self-defeating." This says a lot about the mindset of these writers who want to sell us evil as good and good as something that must be eradicated.
Good job there are Indy comics to satisfy comic fans like me... the videos I have seen on modern DC and Marvel titles .. unbelievably bad.. I wonder who the audience for them is? I assume they have an audience.
I love the look of classic DC heroes like Green Arrow, but Oliver Queen is the original virtue signaler. He's more fun when he's kicking ass in a group setting than being a street level preacher. Dan Waters would thrive if there was still a Vertigo brand, but superheroes are just not his calling. And, then there is Tom King. He has already gotten enough of my money over the years, & won't receive another penny. All in all, you can only blame the editorial staffs at both DC & Marvel. I can't fight the powers that be, but I don't have to support them either.
I think with the Nightwing and Green Arrow books they just require some comprehension. It’s very clear to me that the villain in Green Arrow was being forced to do what she was doing, and was killed by whoever that is once she was caught. With Nightwing, I think it’s just him trying to protect kids that remind him of what he could’ve become without Bruce. I’m also not sure, but it seems like the Flyboi who set the explosive was hired by this villain lady. It’s definitely the Teddy kids fault for pointing a gun at someone, but you still are supposed to feel sympathy for a kid who has fallen into the wrong crowd. It’s just not black and white, they’re just not written for kids. Kind of seems like Condon and Watters write comics like people write books, with a lot more complexity than a lot of super hero readers want
Green Arrow is canonically a Democrat. So... Yeah, legitimately IN character. You have failed Hollywood 'writers' who get their information from the Democrat party to tell these stories, but Hollywood which has always been filled with the less than intelligent, has never had any concept of nuance. This is not a surprise that it's they don't have an understanding of the real world.
Regarding WW, Diana is acting out of vengeance. She was taken down by the villains attacked in this issue back in issue 4 and 5. Now that Steve Trevor has been killed, she is systematically organizing an assault on the sovereigns financial infrastructure and his gang of supervillains. Heroic? No. An emotional response out of grief and understandable? Yes.
Except that Diana and the Wonder girls supposed to be better than this because like any DC hero they supposed be idealistic above all. No some Marvel character.
@EvandroACruz correct. It's not heroic. I'm commenting on the "for no reason." There very much is a reason. It is a calculated takedown out of revenge against all parties involved meant to cripple the entity responsible for not only Diana being captured and tortured, but also for the murder of Trevor. It is not a heroic character move based on the character's past, however it is an understandable course of action, one which is most likely going to be a regretful action for WW. Truthfully I think it is an attempt to humanize WW, and show the sovereign had in fact "broken" her. That of course is subjective.
Maybe your idea of morality is outdated, from a modern leftist perspective? TH-cam censors won't allow me to specify what that entails. (e.g., Selena Gomez, Antifa, HAMAS support, Rotherham coverup, etc.) (Edit - censor check)
Wes, I have to disagree with you about green arrow respectfully. Yes this woman is a serial killer but by that logic are the people tied to the company guilty of mass murder as well? This woman wouldn't have become what she did if it wasn't for the water being poisoned she'd never gotten sick and killed anyone. It's why they had the line about him being right and wrong cause he's right she didn't deserve this but she also made the choice to cross a line that goes against law
Can we also talk about how DC victim blamed male grape victims, like Batman, Nightwing and Green Arrow for getting graped? They celebrate Damian‘s existince like Jesus Christ‘s birth, despite they victim blame Bruce.
When did they do that?
I cheated on my wife in Roblox.
When did something like that happen to Green Arrow?
@@garycannon4644 Black Canary victim blames Ollie in Green Arrow #1 (2001), Batman gets victim blamed in every comic since Morrison‘s run and Nightwing gets victim blamed in Nightwing (1996) #93 and in Nightwing #52.
@@egonnn244 Green Arrow #1 (2001)
I have been noticing this lack or twisted morality for a while in comics. I hate it. They keep trying to justify the villains and make police out to be useless losers. I have to ask some of these writers "Who's side are you on here?"
makes me glad that kids now read manga instead of comics
And Marvel has Paul running around without any punishment..
Sounds like Hollywood where they basically need consultants on how to be a normal human.
6:10 to answer that question, I think it's heavily implied this lady couldn't have been the killer because of her medical conditions. The even ends with a reveal that the real killer found who Ollie was.
This just feeds in to our suspicions we've been already having. Were they've been making heroes act like villains and villains act like heroes.
"These places have insurance" - Batman
Doesn't surprise me that Tom King turned Wonder Girls into a Kill Squad. Seems like something he'd do.
That new Green Arrow costume looks a bit silly. Why does it have a mini cape?
Well they didn't killed anybody in fact but Donna,Cassie and Yara become increasilly violents in King run. Without any reason.
@@EvandroACruz A slight exaggeration has been made to better emphasize the point.
These days? This has been going on for decades and not just for DC, the issue when Magneto and other X-Men like Archangel were allowed to slaughter entire cities and skated because they were too cool or the people in the cities were the wrong nationality(Russian) or proven serial killers like Poison Ivy and Harley Quinn because they’re bangably hot
Going along with the lack of morals in DC, I’ve noticed the characters all seem to curse a lot more. Sure, we don’t see the actual curse words, but they do that squiggly symbols thing to indicate the cursing. And it’s in a lot of the DC comics now.
Yes King Supergirl was a foul-mouthed drunken jerk.
Wonder Woman killing monsters/demons is one thing but killing Maxwell Lord was out of character and that event I blame the writers for not getting Diana right. WW would have sought help freeing Superman from Lord’s control by using a magical hero or a deity to resolve the main problem. The infinite crisis event was just horrible for WW because writers still give Diana the shaft! King on the other hand is just plain awful.
Yes. I never liked of the character anymore after this. I felt that Diana never was more well written in the right way after Max Lord incident. The N52 turned her into a Xena copycat basically. I hate it.
You mean a King comic has twisted morals? I’m shocked, I can scarcely believe it, I don’t think anyone seen that coming. 🙃
I was gearing up to buy Supergirl Woman of Tomorrow and his Penguin solo comic, do you advise against?
@@TMF979ResurgeThere’s no harm trying the first issue to see if you like it, we could have completely different taste in comics. But he’s the one writer in comics that I would never buy.
@@InfamyOrDeath-__- That's what my mom says, but I was pondering getting Supergirl Woman of tomorrow just to see what it was like, and if I don't enjoy it, I could always sell it
@@TMF979Resurge I strongly advise against it.
@@TMF979ResurgeOr you could just, you know, read it without paying for it.
It kinda just feels like they're writing about what they think sounds the most politically correct and using these characters and medium as a platform to spread their personal message instead of writing something true to the character and their history. This is pretty damaging to the characters we love and showcases that these guys really have nothing interesting to write about and lack the skill to write from a characters perspective and voice
I think what the Green Arrow moment was going for was that she didn’t deserve to have her life taken from her by the cancer from the tainted water. The soul situation is abysmally sad. I think it’s poorly displayed in the book, but Ollie’s anger reads as coming from the whole situation itself leading to such a messed up end.
"Write what you know" is the rule that these writers live by
Great video, Wes.
Thank you for making this video. I think this topic, in general, deserves more discussion: the superhero genre has to be morality stories where definite good triumphs over definite evil. Not all comics have to be superhero stories but superhero stories MUST be morally upright. Otherwise, it's a weird bastardization of something that ought to be good and inspiring.
Get Mike Grell as editor for Green Arrow and Chuck Dixon as editor for the Bat titles. That would be a good start to fixing these books.
Mike Grell turned Green Arrow in a killer. So no.
@@EvandroACruz are you talking about "The Longbow Killers" run? I have heard about it but havent read it.
Sadly it is too late for that now. They won't be getting Chuck Dixon back he works for rippaverse now and he does his own independent projects on the side, they burned that bridge.
@@Naglfar94 Also, there is a movie called Working Man with Jason Statham coming out. It's based on a series of novels by Chuck Dixon! We can always dream though...
@@anastasiosgkotzamanis5277 After Mike Grell did The Longbow Hunters he did a monthly Green Arrow book from 1988-1994. Find them. Read them!
It was at this point that Wes finally understood that the entire comics industry was just producing content to shock and irritate him personally.
I want thinking critical as the new editor-in- chief of dc.
I second that.
No no, he needs to be Chief Creative Officer
Is he a student of ditkoism
6:25 Green Arrow was already a personification of the far-left. Whenever he argues with another superhero, there is an 80% chance he'll call them a fascist.
@@aphylorne3021 Go back and read the Mike Grell Green Arrow run. Ollie grew up and became based as fuck!
@@O_G_HELLBOYwhich run regressed him back into that?
@@TMF979Resurge After Mike Grell did The Longbow Hunters he did a monthly from 1988-1994. During the run Ollie grew as a person to where his views evolved due to the things he experienced. I would not describe it as regression. You are just showing your own ignorance by making a statement like that.
@O_G_HELLBOY
In true far left fashion. Labeling all your opponents as "fascists" is progressive.
TMF979Regurgitate didn't get the memo that screeching fascist is played out.
@@1SpicyMeataball Lol. I hear you.
Wes, I just picked up Jeremy Adam’s Flash Gordon #0-5 from my lcs on your recommendation…can’t wait to jump in! Thanks always!
Reminds me of Wonder Girl and Super Girl attacking Air Force One during Amazon's Attack.
I mean, from the same people that decided to make an alternate of Bruce's dad turn full villain because "muh son"?
Makes sense to me
I hate to tell you that fits the Green Arrow since the days of Neal Adams and Danny Oneil run with Green Arrow and Green Lantern. it fits. Since the woman killed the person who gave her cancer through the water. Green Arrow would goes against the company and big brother.
Yep. That the bleeding heart GA that’s been around for over 50 years.
Damn you! I am the goat!
You are the worst writer of this generation. You suck pal. No offense.
When you don't have any personal morals, you can't write positive moral characters.
One other way of looking at Green Arrow and I could be wrong about this. Ollie is forever looking for a cause or reason to fight. The serial killer was caught. He was after bigger game now and with her dead, he couldn’t really go after what he saw as a bigger threat: that a company was poisoning its customers knowingly. He saw this company as the reason for her actions, which is flawed but as the cop said, not entirely wrong either.
We need the Spectre to come back and go positively Old Testament on some of these villains.
@@Sousabird Written by John Ostrander!
OG ditko "the question">
No, the Spectre proved be very bad in some of his judgments
@EvandroACruz I found one!
*Points at Evan*
@@EvandroACruzWho did you vote for?
"Fans can't ignore this..."
Yes, yes we can. We've bedn ignoring books for years for sake of sanity. On the Marvel side what Spiderman fan can stay sane seeing the atrocities written? The only option is to ignore.
They need to put people who have good heart to write heroes, because the only thing i see is a bunch of costumed corrupted people without any morality traits, super heroic traits
Wonder woman being morally grey in the beginning of her career does feel right and make sense considering how she was raise, and having Steve Trevor and Etta Candy be her moral anchor on what's right and wrong is also an interesting concept
Wonder Woman never was a moral grey character even in your early days in Gold Age. He had a no killing rule and tried solve conflicts without violence,seeking redeem your foes. She supposed be a ideal heroine just like Superman
Honestly was never a Wonder woman fan. Never liked how inconsistent she is, but after all the depraved, terrible, and stupid things Tom King has done with this character, I can't stand her anymore.
The same to me. DC never know what do with her.
They unconsciously show that a woman with Wonder Woman's abilities and powers would never be a morally positive heroine, she could even become a villain in the blink of an eye or if she is in those days.
This is like Captain Falcon defending a terrorist. I don't know what is with these writers nowadays.
Something like this happened in the MCU Capt. America(Falcom) and Bucky. They were sympathetic to a terrorist who grenaded innocent civilians. It's disturbing, really disturbing.
No one writes good villains anymore. I think it is because modern writers don’t want to label evil as evil as maybe don’t understand morality maybe? Is strange. 😢😢😢
Wes: "Tom King-"
*"Awe sh*t. Here we go again.."*
I’ve quit comics. Started reading in the 60’s. Now I just buy old issues on eBay and collect Omnibus books. And the occasional comic convention.
You may be old, but it's never too late to start reading manga. They're not all cutesy and annoying and braindead like people make it out to be
Attack on Titan
Berserk
Vagabond
One Punch Man
Akira
Fist of the North Star
And if you actually like it, you can graduate to some of the more crazy stuff like JoJo's Bizarre Adventure and Chainsaw Man.
Manga character designs can look incredibly gay, and I totally get why older comic fans wouldn't want to touch it with a ten foot pole. But I assure you, these stories can be incredibly based, they were made for a male audience, they often celebrate and emphasize the positive aspects of masculinity, they encourage and uplift you to take responsibility and be a better person, there's no victim mentality bs, and heroes are heroic
I dropped Nightwing after six issues of Tom Taylor, and then with this series, three issues after Nightwing gave "beepers" to criminals.
More "defund the police" bullshit. And after this most current issue of Green Arrow, I think I will be giving that book the boot also.
I will not support amoral, lefties writing my iconic comic book characters.
i plan my own comic book because i am sick of Current DC and Marvel Bullcrap broo
Putting Tom Cringe and morality in the same sentence in like putting chocolate and meatloaf in the same sentence
naw, it totally checks out with the proper phrasing
I'm having meatloaf followed a chocolate cake.
Tom King has a truly warped and twisted morality.
@ that’s a pretty smart way of phrasing it , you made chocolate & meatloaf happen in the same sentence, I tip my hat to you sir and your masterful wordsmith
@ eh, glad you're a good sport about it, even if I made a typo in the comment.
Just counting the days till Tom King gets cancelled for something sketchy he's likely done.
Seems pretty obvious, to me. These writers HATE these characters and are doing all they can to denigrate and defile them. Because these characters are rooted in "traditional' Judeo-Christian or American values they have to be destroyed. This has been going on since Avengers Disassembled, or earlier.
Yes, the year of 2004 marked the end of traditional superheroes storylines. We have Avengers Disassembled that ruined the Avengers for me and made the Marvel heroes taking a more militaristic aproach in how handle with conflicts. Meanwhile in DC we had Identity Crisis that took the DCU in a more dark and edge place that ended in that awful N52 reboot.
Kinda wishing for the Comics code to be revived.
Dropped Green Arrow after reading that issue. Almost seemed like the sentiment people were giving to the turd with unibrow in New York.
It appears Tom King has been angling for a spot in woke Hollywood as a script writer. "Tom King's Wonder Woman: Only on CW Network". Directed by Lesyle Headland.
This is not shocking. Writers with no morals in characters they don’t know the history of and making them do morally questionable things
Steve ditko was right
Toxic Misandry is the norm for the big two nowadays.
I'm really tired of writers putting themselves into the characters instead of just writing the characters the way they've always been
It does seem like comics, just keeps wanting to repeat the same issues over and over again.
For it like context doesn't matter or any sort of logical sense. they make up their mind on who going to be the bad guy for this story. Then just have the heroes be shock and in awe when a character does something that makes sense. The end result is heroes just look stupid, due to seeming like they can't understand context. While failing to paint x as a villain, due to writers failing to understand how their writing would come off to others.
Like you, Wes, I read all of these books, and I agree with you one hundred percent. DC Comics are hiring writers who know nothing about true crime and I bet you anything they would not defend their stance to someone who’s a victim of a heinous crime. Is this what they call DC writers privilege? I wish Alan Grant was still around as he would show this lot how to write properly. Funny thing is, both Nightwing and Green Arrow are great characters and there are elements in their books that I like.
I think with the green arrow stuff they were hinting that she’s the fall guy , I think someone else is the freshwater killer but if I’m wrong that’s would change my opinion on the series
Current Nightwing run is lame. The Taylor run was really dull by the end, but at least it had a strong start. I miss Chuck Dixon...
It's strange to me that 8 years later we are still surprised that these heroes are written like villains.
its like they employed Marvel Editors
Is the Green Arrow story somehow a justification for Luigi Mangione?
When people start to relativize morality in comics this became a problem. But DC still have writers like Mark Waid that knows how to make heroes being heroes yet. Tom King is the problem, this guy don't know how heroism works in DCU. Batman can be a dark and brooding guy but he one of most moral and noble heroes in DCU. In other hand in Marvel universe is completely hopeless now. Every X-Men is a killer in these days and we have heroes like Captain America don't giving a shit about this because modern writers believe that even Steve Rogers don't care if facists are being killed in the most brutal ways possible. And even Spider-man is a quitter now. DCU still can be fixed but Marvel is a huge shit hole beyond to salvation now.
Mark is a terrible human being. Good comics or not, he is a terrible man on social media and I won't buy or read anything with his name on it
@@tayojones9460 Yes,he are. I don't deny this. But he still can make a good superhero comic more than any modern comic book hack that don't even believe in morality or heroism in first place.
This is what happens when studios support popularity over storytelling. I'm not against Harley Quinn being the alleged "4th Pillar" (I mean I am but women need something too I guess) but why does the 4th pillar have to be a codependent serial killer? It doesn't make any sense? Are you telling me the best we can do for an empowering female character is a literal goofy girl?
HQ sucks as an "antihero" even more as a """hero"""" Trying to put in the Batfamily was the most moronic thing they do!
And all it's much worse in Injustice! And they havd the balls to say Batman is the most priviliged priviliged character of DC
Modern Audience Green Arrow: "The serial killer didn't deserve to die like this!"
Marshall Tommy Lee Jones: "I don't care!"
Heroes have become Villains and the writers with zero morals doesn't even realise it.
It's like Watchmen all over again.
What you expect ? If the writers doesn’t understand morality then you think their stories will have characters that do? They live in this post modern mindset with moral relativism. They also think that if you are bad then you can basically do whatever to that person because it’s justified. Where as in the past the hero would need to catch them in the act as well as show compassion and try to help the villain.
Moral relativism ruined superhero comics.
Morallity problems in DC? Try the comic industry as a whole!
My takeaway from this video…we need more “Teddy Bear Gang”🤣
maybe they don't realise that just because you have a superhero make a chioce even in a grey situation that doesn't atomatically mean that what they did what right.
Since when can Tim king can write?
I leafed through the Green Arrow book yesterday … kept turning pages and GA appears like in two pages towards the end. I put it back immediately.
Tom King, that fukken guy enjoys destroying continuity and superheroes’ dignity and morals.
Also on the art front…..when did Cassie Sandsmark become a member of the flat chest club?
Prediction: Cassie Sandsmark comes out as trans. Either MTF or FTM
Of curse, MTF is going to make the love scene with Connor Kent (Super Boy),
awkward.😁😁😁
Not to rag on you, but it’s Silver Swan, not Silver Sable. And it’s Green Arrow, not Green Lantern. But a great video!
Marvel pushing Daken as a gay Asian hero. This character murdered and raped countless people but everyone acts like it's cool the Krakoa shit said all mutant sin are forgiven. This dude never apologized, never had a hero arc, any kind of development or change other than the writers needed Iceman to have a dude to crush on.
Daken was a rapist? I don't remember of this.
Daken is one of the worst characters ever created.
@DeadpoolNegative i liked him as a younger more irredeemable version of Wolverine. And when fighting Logan he would have a slight edge being his son but now they want him to be the gay Dick Grayson of the Wolverine family and its stupid.
Are you sure you're reading Wonder Woman? Because Angle Man, Silver Swan and the other villains are all Sovereigns henchman and literally were in the team that attacked Wonder Woman. And the Wonder Girls have spent the last couple issues attacking Sovereigns operations.
They didn't rob banks, they robbed Sovereign. Grundy was working for Sovereign.
It honestly sounds like you just want to rage at Tom King even if you have to make up stuff to discredit him. It really hurts your credibility when reviewing his books.
Green Arrow's always hated the police.....
No. In your Gold and Silver Agedays he always supported the police.
After Injustice with Harley Quinn do you think they can be more hypocrites?
King needs therapy.
I have a love/hate relationship with Wonder Woman, especially with the Tom King run. I'm not a huge Tom King fan. He starts off strong and then ends with a whimper most of the time. But I do love Daniel Sampere's art. Only two more issues! (And then I'm dropping the title).
I dropped Green Arrow and Nightwing months ago.
I've been buying more facsimile editions from the pre-Crisis era than anything.
DC is a mess
Marvel is worse. No kidding.
Tom King = no buy
The modern age of comics is awful.
I hate modern shit from the writer's pov. I would rather be emphatic with the readers
Well, awful moral values are the main reason why the entertainment industry has been in decline since 2016. Out of fear, executives hire evil and untalented people who emotionally blackmail them, these individuals project themselves as characters in the works and ultimately destroy or replace the characters that came before. I remember that after I went to see "The Last Jedi" with my brother, we were walking across a bridge on our way home and reflecting on how we had already been spoiled about Jake's death and the ridiculousness of what happened with Snoke. We didn’t really care about the film and only watched it out of curiosity, but what struck us was the dumb humor and how morally broken it was. It could be summed up by saying: "The villains were evil, stupid, and self-defeating, and the "good guys" were also evil, stupid, and self-defeating." This says a lot about the mindset of these writers who want to sell us evil as good and good as something that must be eradicated.
With Ollie being uber liberal, this is on brand for him...right???
I think Tom is being punished by the DEI staff for being a dudes dude....
Good job there are Indy comics to satisfy comic fans like me... the videos I have seen on modern DC and Marvel titles .. unbelievably bad.. I wonder who the audience for them is? I assume they have an audience.
Tom kings feeling emasculated by his wife.
JWO in full effect. Enjoy!
comics straight out of the boys
When you put activism at the forefront and throw heroism out the window, this is the crap you get.
Are you sure that's Dick? It sounds like Tad. Nite-wing
I love the look of classic DC heroes like Green Arrow, but Oliver Queen is the original virtue signaler. He's more fun when he's kicking ass in a group setting than being a street level preacher. Dan Waters would thrive if there was still a Vertigo brand, but superheroes are just not his calling. And, then there is Tom King. He has already gotten enough of my money over the years, & won't receive another penny. All in all, you can only blame the editorial staffs at both DC & Marvel. I can't fight the powers that be, but I don't have to support them either.
Tom King? No thanks.
I think with the Nightwing and Green Arrow books they just require some comprehension. It’s very clear to me that the villain in Green Arrow was being forced to do what she was doing, and was killed by whoever that is once she was caught. With Nightwing, I think it’s just him trying to protect kids that remind him of what he could’ve become without Bruce. I’m also not sure, but it seems like the Flyboi who set the explosive was hired by this villain lady. It’s definitely the Teddy kids fault for pointing a gun at someone, but you still are supposed to feel sympathy for a kid who has fallen into the wrong crowd.
It’s just not black and white, they’re just not written for kids. Kind of seems like Condon and Watters write comics like people write books, with a lot more complexity than a lot of super hero readers want
Paul in spiderman need to meet a woodchipper
how bout got behead by a Predator since we going to see Peter vs Predator this April 2025
Green Arrow is canonically a Democrat. So... Yeah, legitimately IN character. You have failed Hollywood 'writers' who get their information from the Democrat party to tell these stories, but Hollywood which has always been filled with the less than intelligent, has never had any concept of nuance. This is not a surprise that it's they don't have an understanding of the real world.
That's why Japanese superheroes is better than modern DC or marvel and are what superheroes use to be
What guy before me said,doesnt really sound like og green arrow. Sounds like someone who should not write or draw these comics,hire better people.
Regarding WW, Diana is acting out of vengeance. She was taken down by the villains attacked in this issue back in issue 4 and 5. Now that Steve Trevor has been killed, she is systematically organizing an assault on the sovereigns financial infrastructure and his gang of supervillains. Heroic? No. An emotional response out of grief and understandable? Yes.
Except that Diana and the Wonder girls supposed to be better than this because like any DC hero they supposed be idealistic above all. No some Marvel character.
@EvandroACruz correct. It's not heroic. I'm commenting on the "for no reason." There very much is a reason. It is a calculated takedown out of revenge against all parties involved meant to cripple the entity responsible for not only Diana being captured and tortured, but also for the murder of Trevor. It is not a heroic character move based on the character's past, however it is an understandable course of action, one which is most likely going to be a regretful action for WW. Truthfully I think it is an attempt to humanize WW, and show the sovereign had in fact "broken" her. That of course is subjective.
Maybe your idea of morality is outdated, from a modern leftist perspective?
TH-cam censors won't allow me to specify what that entails. (e.g., Selena Gomez, Antifa, HAMAS support, Rotherham coverup, etc.)
(Edit - censor check)
Let’s hope his influence doesn’t ruin the Superman movie.
Wes, I have to disagree with you about green arrow respectfully. Yes this woman is a serial killer but by that logic are the people tied to the company guilty of mass murder as well? This woman wouldn't have become what she did if it wasn't for the water being poisoned she'd never gotten sick and killed anyone. It's why they had the line about him being right and wrong cause he's right she didn't deserve this but she also made the choice to cross a line that goes against law
Did you miss the part where she killed people?