Can someone rich super Amiga lover just buy the whole damn lot and then make a generous donation to the community and open source AmigaOS. It’s infuriating watching these vultures pick over a dead carcass. And then maybe some people that actually care about it can do something productive with it.
Amiga Users just need to ditch AmigaOS. There have been hardly any updates in the last 20 years. AROS is the future. Look at AtariST, they have a thriving Open Source OS that continually receives improvements and updates. The Amiga cannot have this due to copyright trolls.
The algorithm wants me to watch this video sooooo bad. I've watched it before, probably twice, and I support you on Patreon. I don't know why, but it always shows up on my TH-cam front page!
Yep. Nobody is going to get filthy rich off of Amiga, but many people could make a reasonable living off of it! Now if only someone made a gorgeous new case we could put a new "Amiga Mini" motherboard in... 😉
Great vid. I have to say, I'm new to Emulation but I find Amiga Forever 8 to be fine. But I ignore the RP9 format and just load adfs. Works just like UAE (given that's what it's running anyway) and the new full screen control buttons actually work, and negate the need to dump out of "Amiga view" to swap disks.
@@10MARC I'd not had it long before the upgrade. As in, Paid online, and downloaded V7, and by the time the DVD pack was shipped, it was V8, so I was upgraded for free. To me it seems more stable, and just a nicer interface once full screen. I did mess with setting up some games as RP9 but I really didn't see the point. Keep in mind, mine is more for games rather than productivity software so you may find more issues than I have.
TL;DR: I'm never going to install any software which says "(c) Hyperion" on my Amiga. Rant: Now, I'm not a fan of Cloanto by all means (to put it mildly), but earlier the Amiga world can get rid of Hyperion, the better. They screwed over the original Amiga Inc, by claiming they don't even own most of OS4 so they can't hand it back, after Amiga Inc. tried to pull their license for violating it - which is BTW, also the reason there was no way in hell they could have got Amiga Inc's approval for a 3.1 update (Did you forget that lawsuit ~10 years ago? Look up the details, it's disgusting.), then they basically abandoned the OS4 userbase, after they did not deliver on most of their technology promises for OS4's future and practically stalled its development, they screwed over practically all hardware vendors they've worked with (ACube, A-Eon, etc). They spread FUD about competitors for years (MorphOS is illegal, mkay?). That company is just impossible to support and work with. Can't die fast enough. And as much as you accuse Cloanto for just releasing AF updates to show they're still active, as much I just consider OS 3.1.4 as an effort from Hyperion to regain some of the "average Amiga user's sympathy", which is - as you say - a volunteer effort, with Hyperion just milking on it. And of course there's been an important another party in this dispute, which doesn't get enough mention in the video - A-Eon/AmigaKit. They have been steadily working over the years to deliver hardware and software for the Amiga, and actually tried to work with Hyperion, and invested heavily in that business. Heck, A-Eon itself started as a joint venture with Hyperion... But not surprisingly to some of us paying attention to details, thanks to Hyperion being... well, Hyperion, that effort hit a major FAIL, so they've abandoned it, and have been steadily progressing to work around Hyperion and to consolidate control over large parts of the legacy classic Amiga and even OS4 codebase (bought from external contractors of Hyperion). Recently one could even see Cloanto and A-Eon/AmigaKit folks taking happy selfies together. Do the math. And people worried about 3.1.4 developments - I'm sure the developments themselves won't be lost. Maybe at some point we could also have it in a way, where in the Workbench About box won't say "(c) Hyperion", which just makes my stomach turn... (Disclaimer: Sorry for the rant, me being a MorphOS user for the better part of the last two decade, I'm biased, and I hate Hyperion for far too many reasons. So take it with a bit of salt. But I don't think I'm factually wrong on anything I wrote above.)
Now that was a well thought out statement! I had heard some of this in the past, but had hoped that Hyperions newfound efforts in the community was a sign of positive life. I am a big fan of A-eon and Amigakit - and it will be interesting to see how Cloantos relationship develops with them.
There was a buyback clause in Hyperions' AmigaOS 4.0 development contract . Amiga tried to pay and Hyperion refused the payments. They wanted Amiga OS 4 All part of what you mention above which got us the last knock'em sock'em lawsuit drama resulting in the Settlement Agreement, which Hyperion often tries to violate and declare defunct
Undisclosed so far. It was a private deal between the companies. A lot of the info we have can be found with "Amiga Documents" on Twitter. @amigadocuments - they seem to track down a lot of the public records
I use 3.1.4 and FS-UAE (Win10) and I have a perfect system. Love it. A testament to the Amiga. All this is still a thing. The lawsuits. The new products. The after market of old and NEW products. The users. It's a HUGE swathe of people compared to any other retro scene. Cloanto, if smart, will simply license to others wanting to dev new products.
4:05 - Lol this is completely true. I bought it and looked at it for a bit to see if I could get a better understanding of how to configure WinUAE, but even that proved difficult...
I still agree with this. I can find no ease of use benefits to the Amiga Forever interface, and the missing components from it just force me to use the WinUAE interface.
It took a few iterations, but by the time it got to 8.0, Amiga Forever worked very smoothly for me.... also got the Hyperion OS 4.1 package working on it as well.
Much of what is in 3.1.4 for updates Cloanto has done over the years as ROM mods. They also donate Amiga hardware to the WinUAE dev team to further improve the emulation and what hardware is emulated. The team doesn't want to take outside money as they don't want the mistaken idea that they are owned
What's in a name? That which we call a rose. By any other name would smell as sweet. There are at least 4 different trademarks. Commodore/CBM, Amiga Inc, Amiga Technologies, AmigaOS/Workbench. I would hope we get some new PPC or Risc cards from it, but in truth we will probably just get OS 3.1.5b I hope you dont mind, but I opened a new thread in the Lemon Amiga General section, explaining this, and showing your video as an example. :)
My feelings about this acquisition are absolutely positive. M. Battilana really IS a kind and a passionate Amiga lover since late '80. He grew his sw together with Commodore Amiga, I strongly believe that now he will give us Amiga users something good, at least in a few years.
I hope so. I really like Mike, but I wish with all my heart he would stay in better contact with the Amiga Community via social media. We need to know there is a plan to move forward
While my stance on this is well known, i do think the only way forward is to get rid of commercial software completely. This means Vampire + AROS. I sincerely hope the Apollo team forks AROS and cleans it up (or re-models it is perhaps a better phrase). Aros is awesome, but I must admit the whole "two windowing managers" is very confusing. They should opt for one and make it behave as closely to the original as possible. Next, someone with an eye for design should go in and make sure things like margins, padding, borders etc are uniform. Nothing is more annoying than the typical "off by 1" where some ridge or border is different from everything else. I also hope someone with a little bit of business sense can get involved, because there is absolutely money to be made here. If Aros was cleaned up for ARM, they could drop the "DIY kernel" and just piggyback on the linux kernel (not the whole system, just the kernel). With a little bit of work, they would have a system that is highly efficient for embedded / kiosk systems. That can run off cheap, off-the-shelves hardware. Eventually, the vampire tech could compete directly as prices drop below $100 for a stand-alone. It all boils down to how they pitch AROS and what media libraries they go with. Get some awesome codecs in there, make multimedia "second nature" on the platform, get node.js + webkit ported -- and voila, they have a product that has real, tangible value for investors and users alike. And I honestly dont see Cloanto lift a finger, because their primary business model is legacy. The whole c64 mini is one of their projects, and while its fun -- it does nothing for realizing the potential in the technology.
AROS have Wanderer which is instead of Workbench on Amiga OS3.x and just like Amiga it also have DOpus magellan, yes it comes prebundled with it but it is (my opinion) more part of AROS then on Amiga 3.x. (and if you did know it, some may not know, hence the clarification) But you are right, AROS is API compatible with AmigaOS 3.1 so it should be possible (perhaps easy?) to create at least a basic ROM kernel (perhaps SD card based? That could sit in the ROM Socket) that then would load libraries and drivers from for example the SD card or perhaps HD itself... And it would be nice if it was fully application / game compatible with classic AmigaOS, and in case it could not be, original ROM images could also sit on the same SD card. It should not need to be too expensive...
Without knowing the details of exactly what and how Hyperion had licensed use of Amiga it is all just unknowns. Was it the code and the name only for OS 3.5/3.9 and 4.x? Was Cloanto only a licensee by Amiga, Inc. to package and legally distribute the classic OS and to use the name? It all gets pretty murky and may not be so clear cut that Cloanto even had the right to buy all of what remained with Amiga, Inc without Hyperion even having an option. Like you, I hope they will settle and decide to work together. Join up completely and bundle 3.1.4 with AmigaForever. License 3.1.4 for use with the Vampire boards. Send a percentage for continued development to the people who worked on 3.1.4. Meanwhile get to porting 4.x off of the dead PPC path and do something reasonable like move to ARM or do something exotic like RISC-V and make the Amiga unique again. (And in my wildest dreams make a Vampire board with an interconnect to a modern CPU for both classic and modern Amiga covered in one system.... a fella can dream can't he?)
Look up the Settlement Agreement from 10 years ago. Hyperion has the rights to use the words AmigaOS, AmigaOne for marketing, no holding rights. They also have rights to AmigaOS 3.1 course code only for porting to PPC platforms as a base for AmigaOS 4 development Cloanto purchased the rights to AmigaOS 3.1 and previous plus future updates to from the Commodore bankruptcy and agreements contracted after that.
Amiga Inc have shared rights to the Amiga ROMS with Cloanto. However Amiga Inc were prohibited from selling anything that exposed Workbench. Does this Amiga Inc limitation now apply to Cloanto? Also, the Amiga OS name is licensed from Amiga Inc (perpetually?), so technically doesn't Cloanto own that too? That any of these groups have a pulse at all is actually a step up and therefore it is conceivable that an agreement could be made in the longer term. Hopefully they won't start hating eachother and cease any progress, because both parties are entrenched, and can only go forward together.
I think Mike from Cloanto owns all the rights at least up to 3.1 AmigaOS. It is certainly the AmigaOS 3.1.4 and 4.1 that are in licensing limbo - does Michael own any part of that? So many questions.
Groundhog day indeed. This video keeps on getting recommended by the algorithms. You hitting some kind of crazy algorithm keywords and you should study and document this video very carefully. LoL good job! Maybe because we didn't comment on it yet? Hmm... 🤔
I did take a look at the description and tags. Really just some stuff about Hyperion vs Cloanto was the only difference. Oh well, I am not complaining!
Totally agree. It makes you wonder if they are consolidating trademarks so they can get the best bang for the buck on an Amiga Mini. Would seem a ripe platform that will sell really well in Europe.
I never thought the original Amiga architecture was pushed to its ultimate capabilities. I don't know why I think that - but it always seemed more capable in terms of pushing pixels around the screen. I think it was ahead of its time and developers struggled with conceiving its full potential.
Part of the issue is that people programmed to the lowest common denominator. A 512k or maybe a 1 MB floppy based system. once you add some real RAM and a hard drive, it really opens up new possibilities on the Amiga. Imagine a HAM based graphics game in the mid to late eighties that ran from a hard drive - it was totally possible to do, but few had the hard drive so no one created it
@@10MARC It could have made the difference - maybe it was floppies that held the amiga back. I think you're right - HDD would have made a big difference. Just as "the last of us" was possible through that blu ray drive on the PS3. It's amazing to see new development without those restrictions you mentioned.
COVID delayed the court case in 2020. There was some movement in early 2020 but it apparently fell thru. Hopefully by the end of 2021 we will have some answers.
Just rewatched this after looking up the court case again. It seems to me Hyperion needs to acknowledge that Cloanto’s parent now owns the Amiga rights and do the right thing. On the other hand Cloanto,as you say, needs to do something with it. They promised years ago to develop a Mac version of Amiga Forever but there’s no sign of it.
Yes, that sounds about right. Cloanto owns the rights, but also needs to be more vocal about what they are going to do with the product. The court cases were delayed due to COVID, so maybe late this year or next year they will move along...
So wait, does this mean that Hyperion doesn't own **anything** anymore? OS 4.x particularly? If so, it's going to be very interesting to see what happens going forward... In the meantime, maybe I should hurry up and buy the 1200 version of 3.1.4 before things really go tits up.
The court case is still pending. My point was it does not look great, and that Cloanto seems to be holding all the cards. Lets just hope they can be cool, and not spiteful about the entire deal.
Time to buy AmigaOS 3.1.4 and 4.1 FE until we can... Cloanto seems to just want to keep the Amiga dead stuck in the 90s and sue whoever wants to move it forward...
It is sad that it almost feels like that. I do understand that Michael from Cloanto is actually a pretty good guy - Maybe he just does not have the marketing skills needed to take the Amiga where it could go.
Amiga OS 4 is the future Hyperion has always wanted the whole pie Amiga Forever is a conservation project started at the Commodore bankruptcy Though AF's modified ROMs have mostly the same updates that 3.1.4 has
@@DeFrisselle I understand what you are saying, but Amiga OS 4.x will have a hard time being the future if it is limited to the discontinued or expensive PPC chips. I suspect there is not the Manpower or money to port it over to Intel chips or ARM chips.
@@10MARC Hyperion is locked in to PPC due to the Settlement Agreement and previous agreements. PPC was great in the late 90's and some of the accelerators, big box Amigas, were practically PPC motherboard in a Zorro card form factor. Which all set us on this PPC path AROS is on X86, 68K, and soon ARM for the Raspberry PI. Not a lot of manpower there and for free in the devs spare time. So, I think it's possible if the AOS 4 dev team was a little larger and gets paid plus broader licencing for other platforms. I think AOS 4 on a Chromebook would be amazing. The other big issue is drivers, The A1220 is being held up by that. Bigger issue than porting
And AMEN on the Vampire standalone! I'd LOVE to see that become the new "Next Gen Amiga" and get an OS built specifically for it for the future based on 3.1.4 but recompiled to take advantage of all the Apollo core features and the SAGA chipset capabilities. Something that supports big drive devices natively right out of the box without the current HELL you go through to install the OS (although 3.1.4 is certainly better on this). Something with one of the TCPIP stacks built in as standard. And for gods sake MAYBE somebody will finally write a reasonable modern browser - if we can get Chromium on Linux on a RasPi, we should be able to do it on the Vampire with 512MB RAM...
About the only GOOD thing that MIGHT happen if both companies put each other out of business, is that then somebody else could come in and buy up all the licenses and rights from both and get everything under 1 roof again and HOPEFULLY clean up this utter friggin mess.
Somehow I don't want that to happen. I can't put my finger on why. Maybe because Cloanto is a known factor, warts and all, and part of me holds out hope they will team up with someone with actual marketing experience and take this somewhere. Amiga will never be a competitor with the big guys - those days are gone - but it carve a nice little niche out and do OK.
10 Minute Amiga Retro Cast have said before and will again - if I were to ever win the mega millions for a huge jackpot I would totally buy up all the IP and rights for Amiga everywhere and put it under 1 roof and then find some modernization attempt for it.
Hmm... The new Amiga would be the a122 board from A-Eon. That's due out in the spring. That is using new generation amiga hardware not the classic of course. And the classic department we have the a500 Mini that just shipped this year. And the news was just released about a week ago that the evercade is going to get an Amiga collection. That's kind of cool.
I am amazed that someone still strictly holds onto Amiga/Commodore Properties at this time. The only thing that such a move does it cause problems for true Amiga enthusiasts.
An A1200 is perfectly adequate as a home computer and a reproduction of it would make a great Christmas present for many. Floppy disks are quite acceptable to distribute games. Maybe use 1.4 meg disks as well as the older 800k? Macintosh drives can do that. You can get reproduction A1200 cases, so maybe Cloanto should go the whole hog and distribute a complete A1200, brand new machine?
the market for a low cost gaming computer is here today and that what the amiga was at the time. with the steam deck and with help from hardware manufacturer a new linux base computer with low cost build in GPU would have a big market. I think build in keyboard would also interesting call back to 1980s and 1990s home computer.
While Amiga forever may not be winning any award, it is something. Would be great to hear which critiques you received for the software and interfaces you wrote :) Not to criticize since the colorful website you have does not show any sort of work related to programming, API, implementation of any sort of modern tech that can be close to make a "frontend" for an emulator, nor a github repo with anything. So I assume you are criticizing the UI of Amiga Forever just for the look; which is totally legit; it is not exactly a great looking UI. Amiga died long time ago; the only reason why it still exist this day is because scalpers are making a ton of money with the old hardware; and companies that make FPGA and peripherals that cost more than the actual computer (if it was priced honestly and not at scalper price of course), make money thanks to the fan base. I think it would be better to just put to rest the Amiga; it had a reason to exist when it came out, but today; unless they make the equivalent in terms of technical innovation to what Miner did with the original Amiga; there is really no reason to put the Amiga name on anything these days.
I don't have the time to be a web designer, nor do I want to be. My website is designed to be simple so you can actually view it on an Amiga and have it be useful. And it is. I don't enjoy critiquing Amiga forever, because Michael is actually a friend of mine. I really like and respect him. My point is, the front end interface does not make things easier to run WinUAE, and many features just are not accessible. I have tried many times to make it useful launchers for Amiga OS using his interface, and I always run into a situation where I just can't emulate a piece of hardware or configure something, so I just launch the WinUAE interface and I get it working in about 5 minutes. Now if the interface was actually simple to use, that would be another story. But it is not particularly easier to use than just using WinUAE
@@10MARC I think there is expectation that the AF interface would do anything; while it is simply a launcher for people that does not want to deal with the UAE complexity and its quirks. If you know how to use UAE, you can use AF just for launching games; make RP9 files and have manuals, music and images in one place. It is not meant to do more than that; so your expectation of it not being useful, is just due to the fact that you are considered a power user for UAE, and as such, don't see value in it. Most of the people do not change much when they run UAE; they just load the os or the games/apps; which make sense after all. I know many people that like that interface because they just want to play or run the pre-made config for the os. Can't make everyone happy after all; so I think AF has its place for certain Amiga users.
Maybe they will do something cool like offer a version of Amiga Forever that includes AmigaOS 4.1 for use with WinUAE. It would sure increase the exposure of the software, which would only be a good thing. Fingers crossed...
There are new Amiga motherboards (The A1222) coming out in a few months to work with Amiga OS 4.1 (which is still in development), and the Vampire V4 was just released as a brand new stand alone Amiga that supports Amiga OS 3.1.4
I bought Amiga Forever years ago and I don’t regret it. But I own several actual Amigas of different ROMs. As far as I’m concerned, Cloanto will not get any more money. Shame.
If Michael does things right and licenses the name, OS and ROMS I think we could see a licensed Amiga Mini in the next year or so. It will be nice when the legal mess is sorted out, though
Could Hyperion just change their product to a patcher disk to patch 3.1 to 3.1.4. That way they're only distributing their changes and not the intellectual property. But Cloanto shouldn't be so childish and work with them.
You are correct - I had '95 stuck in my head for some reason. I wonder what would have happened if Commodore U.K. had won the bid? Things would have been different for sure.
@@10MARC yes, but not how you would've wanted. The CBM name would have been put on printers, fax machines, monitors etc which would've been made by third parties. Amiga name would be put on clothing and other bits and pieces. Commodore name on "anything with a plug" such as kettles and toasters (yes, really). Amiga would have had some upgrades made for it, but there probably would not have been any new models. The Amiga would have been killed off and something else replace it. Unless they sold the Amiga IP to someone who would've made new machines, there would have been no new machines. Remember Commodore UK had no R&D anything. They were sales and support people. They were very good at it, but that's all they were. They had little interest in doing all that expensive work when cheaper options existed. At least Escom tried with the walker project. They ultimately overreached and paid the price, but at least they gave it a go and didn't want to just tell the name to the highest bidder or slap the name on some cheap tat. This whole interview is interesting, but skip to 39:08 here th-cam.com/video/V3ef8ronz9E/w-d-xo.html to learn what Commodore UK would've done if they won the bid over Escom.
Without a change of architecture the Amiga was always doomed to fall out of mainstream use because Motorola stopped developing the CPU line which the Amiga depended on. It would have been rough for a couple of years but a move to x86 would have been best so people could of had dual boot OS'es with Windows.
Bad news. this means a large company will be able to monopolise and close down hobbyist creators such as the micro 64 and retroarch systems. Seems nothing is exempt from corporate interference.
A pox on both their houses! The damned trademarks and IP are never going to make anybody wealthy. Should be turned over to a community-owned and community-run consortium at this point and all software and firmware open sourced.
I really didn't look at the Amiga as a valid platform back in the day. Arcade game console at best. Of course I didn't even consider Apple either until 1996ish. If they would have created a much better OS (UNIX) then it could be more useful as a poor mans SPARCstation which would have been far more useful. As far as the hardware I don't know. I do know I sold them in the 80's but the C128 was the biggest seller. I think Amiga was trying to compete with Apple but really didn't do all that well. Performance wise during the time it was faster than the Applie IIGS and at a much lower cost. If memory serves; most of the nightmares was with the OS. I do remember issues with some of the hardware design but it wasn't something that couldn't be fixed. Am sure there were 3rd party expansion but as I said; I didn't consider it as a valid platform. Please keep in mind am looking at this from a Business and developer role. Whatever the top end one was called. I think I could work out an OS for it in the UNIX area as most of that is open source. Just not sure about the hardware limitations if it can handle current tech. But doing this alone I will have to say it could take a couple years to sort out given my day to day job now.
In 1985 we were Multitasking, working with 4096 color images, working on 880K floppies and genlocking our machines to video equipment. There was plenty of Word Processing and Spreadsheets available, too. Did I mention the four voice Stereo Sound, too? And we could expand to 8.5 MB in 1985 and actually USE the memory. The PC and Macs of the time were Black and white, Green screen or 4 color. Audio was plinks and boops. Multitasking was unheard of. Amiga was so far ahead of the competition, even Commodore had no idea what to do with it. Granted, by 1991 the PC's had started to surpass the capabilities, albeit at about 4x - 6x the cost. Amiga did not lose because it was inferior, it lost because it could not be marketed properly.
@@10MARC Funny that people such as Lee Foster didn't consider the Amiga a "valid platform." Really, the Apple IIgs or [especially] the Atari ST [particularly at it's price point] were really the only competition the Amiga had and were still both inferior spec-wise. To me IBMs were for lamers or stodgy business-types who refused to by anything non-IBM and Apples were for rich kids. Ah, the good old days. :)
If Cloanto has any brains left, they should grant dev-license to Hyperion, without cost. Unless they want us to place order at https slash slash ship a di** dot com....nudge nudge..say no more, eh ?
Maybe someone that knows Elon Musk can put a bug in his ear about it. He has enough money to just piss away just for kicks. Maybe he is enough of a visionary to reboot Amiga fully.
who cares about the trademarks and name... just buy the chip designs, that's all that matters for production runs anyway. wether they have 'amiga' on there or 'blue led computer inc' is fully irrelevant, case sizes, logos, etc, none of that is what makes it an 'amiga'. the chips and compatibility with the existing platform are what makes it an 'amiga' or any other computer one intends to continue production of. (not even some 'amigaos', that can easily be recreated with full compatibilty from scratch, like they did with the ibm bios)
@@10MARC not if they only bought the 'trademarks'... then they probably will come up with some shitty 'usb cup warmer' with an amiga logo on it sooner or later rather than a new amiga, regardless of which name it has on it.
let's just say that out of all the assets of commodore, i would not give 1 cent for the 'trademarks'. i would buy the mos chipfab w/everything in it, and the chip designs tho lol. not even the case molds, just make new cases. who cares. any car factory can make cases for you. not rocket science. it's the chip internal logic that makes it a specific computer, not some case or some logo on the outside.
people only buying 'names' are bound to end up like telefunken and grundig... once proper manufacturers of electronics, now just a logo printed on generic made in china usb sticks :P
Yes it will be. I hope that is not what will happen, as AmigaOS 3.1.4 is really quite nice - but like I say in the video - if the new owners do nothing but drive a wedge in the community, the community will collectively give them the middle finger. None of us NEEDS the Amiga brand, the Amiga brand holders NEED us.
Wow, Google is drawing a line in the sand with a back how! They're killing Inbox. For those of you who don't know, Inbox fixed Gmail. And they're just gonna do it. I guess I have to give them creds. And in response, wow how do I disentangle myself from Google. Well, this is my line in the mud. My journey begins now.
@@Lucretia9000 lots of things are not pronounced phoneitcally, including the word phoneitcally. I have never heard it pronounced thenway you are saying it is. Remember also that accents vary all over the world, and pronunciation that sounds correct to you, other laugh at. For example, I personally believe American Southern accents sound horrible, like they don't know how to speak. (Even though about half of my immediate family speaks with a southern accent!) I don't judge them for it. (Well, except in my head... I don't vocalize it) My wife is native Chinese and it is too funny how she butchers the American language!
We want new Amiga computers, powerfully built with the last x86 processors. An Amiga capable of running a new Amiga os, linux, Windows etc. That would be a winner machine.
Yes - Amiga OS4.1's reliance on old and obsolete PPC processors has crippled it for years. I suspect that the manpower and money is not there too port it too X86 architecture.
Ive always wondered what a real time multi-tasking OS could do with a cluster of ARM CPUs. Could be something more intune with the spirit of the Amiga, no giant heat fans thanks!
That is certainly an option to consider, but the old Amiga Inc has not had a product to sell in a decade and it still existed somehow. The issue is that Hyperion kinda sold it under the table and Cloanto called foul. Then Amiga rights got bought up. Maybe it will be a good thing.
@@10MARC Here is a thing: In the beginning they all support Amiga and its fans. But greed and laziness soon takes over. I am sure every Amiga fan had at least once in their life asked this question: What would Amiga (Commodore) look like now? I would say they would be something like Apple (computers), kind a niche, but very loved and supported. But I might be very wrong. The reason we do not know: All this companies that have been trying to continue the legacy but never actually did something very significant made this situation we have now. Amiga fans seems to be persons who can play some serious money when they think the product deserve it, but laziness kills any possible progress even if there is market. Cloanto, if they can not handle it (and I think they can't) should just say the price, we buy that thing over, and release to PD. I know, I would put some money in it.
Hyperion is the only one to actually do something meaningful for the Amiga community for some many years now. Sad they don"t have all the necessary rights do to this more freely :( Cloanto is just a brake pad.
Can someone rich super Amiga lover just buy the whole damn lot and then make a generous donation to the community and open source AmigaOS. It’s infuriating watching these vultures pick over a dead carcass. And then maybe some people that actually care about it can do something productive with it.
That'd be Trevor D
The imagery is compelling...vultures over a dead carcass indeed
maybe I am just dreaming but maybe one day we might have some real new amiga hardware with amiga name.
Amiga Users just need to ditch AmigaOS. There have been hardly any updates in the last 20 years. AROS is the future. Look at AtariST, they have a thriving Open Source OS that continually receives improvements and updates. The Amiga cannot have this due to copyright trolls.
@@guru332 I didn't even know the Atari ST was around still.
The algorithm wants me to watch this video sooooo bad. I've watched it before, probably twice, and I support you on Patreon. I don't know why, but it always shows up on my TH-cam front page!
For some reason this is my most watched video. I always thought it was the content, but maybe it is just TH-cam's algorithms that make it so popular!
Nice rant Doug, enjoyable-passionate and totally correct!
Well said Doug. This could be a little goldmine of a cottage industry but AROS is the key.
Yep. Nobody is going to get filthy rich off of Amiga, but many people could make a reasonable living off of it! Now if only someone made a gorgeous new case we could put a new "Amiga Mini" motherboard in... 😉
@@10MARC Amiga is and will grow into a large cottage industry how it started.
I admire your passion for this wonderful platform. I often wish it had better stewardship over the years.... :-(
Amiga for life.
Still?
Let's hope for the better, Doug. And that all the work on 3.1.4 will not be wasted
I am tempted to order it for my A1200 and A3000 just to make sure I can still get it. (Already own it for the A4000 and A500)
We should form a foundation. Amiga Foundation, open source hardware, open source operating system, open source cpu.
Great vid. I have to say, I'm new to Emulation but I find Amiga Forever 8 to be fine. But I ignore the RP9 format and just load adfs. Works just like UAE (given that's what it's running anyway) and the new full screen control buttons actually work, and negate the need to dump out of "Amiga view" to swap disks.
I have not upgraded to version 8 yet. Has it changed much from the previous version?
@@10MARC I'd not had it long before the upgrade. As in, Paid online, and downloaded V7, and by the time the DVD pack was shipped, it was V8, so I was upgraded for free. To me it seems more stable, and just a nicer interface once full screen. I did mess with setting up some games as RP9 but I really didn't see the point. Keep in mind, mine is more for games rather than productivity software so you may find more issues than I have.
@@10MARC works better on newer Windows versions. And, just telling it, it's worth supporting them (Cloanto), IMHO.
TL;DR: I'm never going to install any software which says "(c) Hyperion" on my Amiga.
Rant: Now, I'm not a fan of Cloanto by all means (to put it mildly), but earlier the Amiga world can get rid of Hyperion, the better. They screwed over the original Amiga Inc, by claiming they don't even own most of OS4 so they can't hand it back, after Amiga Inc. tried to pull their license for violating it - which is BTW, also the reason there was no way in hell they could have got Amiga Inc's approval for a 3.1 update (Did you forget that lawsuit ~10 years ago? Look up the details, it's disgusting.), then they basically abandoned the OS4 userbase, after they did not deliver on most of their technology promises for OS4's future and practically stalled its development, they screwed over practically all hardware vendors they've worked with (ACube, A-Eon, etc). They spread FUD about competitors for years (MorphOS is illegal, mkay?). That company is just impossible to support and work with. Can't die fast enough. And as much as you accuse Cloanto for just releasing AF updates to show they're still active, as much I just consider OS 3.1.4 as an effort from Hyperion to regain some of the "average Amiga user's sympathy", which is - as you say - a volunteer effort, with Hyperion just milking on it.
And of course there's been an important another party in this dispute, which doesn't get enough mention in the video - A-Eon/AmigaKit. They have been steadily working over the years to deliver hardware and software for the Amiga, and actually tried to work with Hyperion, and invested heavily in that business. Heck, A-Eon itself started as a joint venture with Hyperion... But not surprisingly to some of us paying attention to details, thanks to Hyperion being... well, Hyperion, that effort hit a major FAIL, so they've abandoned it, and have been steadily progressing to work around Hyperion and to consolidate control over large parts of the legacy classic Amiga and even OS4 codebase (bought from external contractors of Hyperion). Recently one could even see Cloanto and A-Eon/AmigaKit folks taking happy selfies together. Do the math.
And people worried about 3.1.4 developments - I'm sure the developments themselves won't be lost. Maybe at some point we could also have it in a way, where in the Workbench About box won't say "(c) Hyperion", which just makes my stomach turn...
(Disclaimer: Sorry for the rant, me being a MorphOS user for the better part of the last two decade, I'm biased, and I hate Hyperion for far too many reasons. So take it with a bit of salt. But I don't think I'm factually wrong on anything I wrote above.)
Now that was a well thought out statement! I had heard some of this in the past, but had hoped that Hyperions newfound efforts in the community was a sign of positive life. I am a big fan of A-eon and Amigakit - and it will be interesting to see how Cloantos relationship develops with them.
There was a buyback clause in Hyperions' AmigaOS 4.0 development contract . Amiga tried to pay and Hyperion refused the payments. They wanted Amiga OS 4
All part of what you mention above which got us the last knock'em sock'em lawsuit drama resulting in the Settlement Agreement, which Hyperion often tries to violate and declare defunct
I was completely ignorant of these things. I thought Hyperion were the good guys. Oh well, you learn something every day. Thanks for posting.
@@sablesanctum They're not at all. I would never buy the 3.1.4.x roms because of their name and (c) on it. £#$% Hyperion, at least for me.
I am so curious how much the sale of these ownership properties cost in 2019. If anyone knows please let me know.
Undisclosed so far. It was a private deal between the companies. A lot of the info we have can be found with "Amiga Documents" on Twitter. @amigadocuments - they seem to track down a lot of the public records
I use 3.1.4 and FS-UAE (Win10) and I have a perfect system. Love it. A testament to the Amiga. All this is still a thing. The lawsuits. The new products. The after market of old and NEW products. The users. It's a HUGE swathe of people compared to any other retro scene. Cloanto, if smart, will simply license to others wanting to dev new products.
Nothing wrong with WinUAE. I don't use it for day to day Amiga use, but I do use it for testing, and sometimes for data transfers
4:05 - Lol this is completely true. I bought it and looked at it for a bit to see if I could get a better understanding of how to configure WinUAE, but even that proved difficult...
I still agree with this. I can find no ease of use benefits to the Amiga Forever interface, and the missing components from it just force me to use the WinUAE interface.
Hey now, we can't go without lawsuits if the aim is a perfect Amiga retro experience.
I'm finally watching this after floating at the top of my recommendations for a year+. I laughed, I cried; it's better than Cats!
For some reason TH-cam loves shoving this video in everyone's feed. No idea why! I have lots of others to enjoy, too!
It took a few iterations, but by the time it got to 8.0, Amiga Forever worked very smoothly for me.... also got the Hyperion OS 4.1 package working on it as well.
I keep thinking I will get Amiga OS 4.1 installed on my WinUAE, but I just never get around to it.
Well said Doug first time listener too your channel. Couldn’t agree with you more.
Thanks! I have since met Michael Battliana in person. He is a good person, and I hope he does something wonderful with the Amiga. Enjoy my channel!
Much of what is in 3.1.4 for updates Cloanto has done over the years as ROM mods. They also donate Amiga hardware to the WinUAE dev team to further improve the emulation and what hardware is emulated. The team doesn't want to take outside money as they don't want the mistaken idea that they are owned
What's in a name? That which we call a rose. By any other name would smell as sweet.
There are at least 4 different trademarks. Commodore/CBM, Amiga Inc, Amiga Technologies, AmigaOS/Workbench. I would hope we get some new PPC or Risc cards from it, but in truth we will probably just get OS 3.1.5b
I hope you dont mind, but I opened a new thread in the Lemon Amiga General section, explaining this, and showing your video as an example. :)
I love Lemon Amiga! One of my favorite websites! I will check out the new section.
My feelings about this acquisition are absolutely positive. M. Battilana really IS a kind and a passionate Amiga lover since late '80. He grew his sw together with Commodore Amiga, I strongly believe that now he will give us Amiga users something good, at least in a few years.
I hope so. I really like Mike, but I wish with all my heart he would stay in better contact with the Amiga Community via social media. We need to know there is a plan to move forward
@@10MARC OMG! He's a bit on the shy side. Not so much "social" :)
@@mark12358 This is very true - but I have offered to help him out in that aspect last year.
Tbh, my feelings about his acquisition are negative. Until Cloanto decide to expand to developing countries, and reduce the price
We should all be resting on our lawyers!
I had Lawyers on my mind... And it just slipped out and I didn't notice until I was editing! Too funny!
@@10MARC Freud would be proud.
While my stance on this is well known, i do think the only way forward is to get rid of commercial software completely.
This means Vampire + AROS. I sincerely hope the Apollo team forks AROS and cleans it up (or re-models it is perhaps a better phrase). Aros is awesome, but I must admit the whole "two windowing managers" is very confusing. They should opt for one and make it behave as closely to the original as possible.
Next, someone with an eye for design should go in and make sure things like margins, padding, borders etc are uniform. Nothing is more annoying than the typical "off by 1" where some ridge or border is different from everything else.
I also hope someone with a little bit of business sense can get involved, because there is absolutely money to be made here.
If Aros was cleaned up for ARM, they could drop the "DIY kernel" and just piggyback on the linux kernel (not the whole system, just the kernel).
With a little bit of work, they would have a system that is highly efficient for embedded / kiosk systems. That can run off cheap, off-the-shelves hardware.
Eventually, the vampire tech could compete directly as prices drop below $100 for a stand-alone.
It all boils down to how they pitch AROS and what media libraries they go with.
Get some awesome codecs in there, make multimedia "second nature" on the platform, get node.js + webkit ported -- and voila, they have a product that has real, tangible value for investors and users alike. And I honestly dont see Cloanto lift a finger, because their primary business model is legacy. The whole c64 mini is one of their projects, and while its fun -- it does nothing for realizing the potential in the technology.
AROS have Wanderer which is instead of Workbench on Amiga OS3.x and just like Amiga it also have DOpus magellan, yes it comes prebundled with it but it is (my opinion) more part of AROS then on Amiga 3.x. (and if you did know it, some may not know, hence the clarification)
But you are right, AROS is API compatible with AmigaOS 3.1 so it should be possible (perhaps easy?) to create at least a basic ROM kernel (perhaps SD card based? That could sit in the ROM Socket) that then would load libraries and drivers from for example the SD card or perhaps HD itself... And it would be nice if it was fully application / game compatible with classic AmigaOS, and in case it could not be, original ROM images could also sit on the same SD card. It should not need to be too expensive...
Without knowing the details of exactly what and how Hyperion had licensed use of Amiga it is all just unknowns. Was it the code and the name only for OS 3.5/3.9 and 4.x? Was Cloanto only a licensee by Amiga, Inc. to package and legally distribute the classic OS and to use the name? It all gets pretty murky and may not be so clear cut that Cloanto even had the right to buy all of what remained with Amiga, Inc without Hyperion even having an option. Like you, I hope they will settle and decide to work together. Join up completely and bundle 3.1.4 with AmigaForever. License 3.1.4 for use with the Vampire boards. Send a percentage for continued development to the people who worked on 3.1.4. Meanwhile get to porting 4.x off of the dead PPC path and do something reasonable like move to ARM or do something exotic like RISC-V and make the Amiga unique again. (And in my wildest dreams make a Vampire board with an interconnect to a modern CPU for both classic and modern Amiga covered in one system.... a fella can dream can't he?)
Look up the Settlement Agreement from 10 years ago. Hyperion has the rights to use the words AmigaOS, AmigaOne for marketing, no holding rights. They also have rights to AmigaOS 3.1 course code only for porting to PPC platforms as a base for AmigaOS 4 development
Cloanto purchased the rights to AmigaOS 3.1 and previous plus future updates to from the Commodore bankruptcy and agreements contracted after that.
News article on Amiga-News.de Feb 2015 Cloanto confirms transfer of Commodore/Amiga copyrights
www.amiga-news.de/en/news/AN-2015-02-00027-EN.html
Amiga Inc have shared rights to the Amiga ROMS with Cloanto. However Amiga Inc were prohibited from selling anything that exposed Workbench.
Does this Amiga Inc limitation now apply to Cloanto? Also, the Amiga OS name is licensed from Amiga Inc (perpetually?), so technically doesn't Cloanto own that too?
That any of these groups have a pulse at all is actually a step up and therefore it is conceivable that an agreement could be made in the longer term.
Hopefully they won't start hating eachother and cease any progress, because both parties are entrenched, and can only go forward together.
I think Mike from Cloanto owns all the rights at least up to 3.1 AmigaOS. It is certainly the AmigaOS 3.1.4 and 4.1 that are in licensing limbo - does Michael own any part of that? So many questions.
Groundhog day indeed. This video keeps on getting recommended by the algorithms. You hitting some kind of crazy algorithm keywords and you should study and document this video very carefully. LoL good job! Maybe because we didn't comment on it yet? Hmm... 🤔
I did take a look at the description and tags. Really just some stuff about Hyperion vs Cloanto was the only difference. Oh well, I am not complaining!
"Resting on their lawyers"..... i see what you did there. :)
So basically we will now have cease and desist notifications going out to the small home brew hardware guys.
Let's hope not. I have spoken to Michael a few times via email and on the phone, and he claims to want to support small entrepreneurs.
Totally agree. It makes you wonder if they are consolidating trademarks so they can get the best bang for the buck on an Amiga Mini. Would seem a ripe platform that will sell really well in Europe.
That would be OK by me, as long as it was as useable as the C64 Mini that they are also involved in. That thing is actually quite nice.
Cloanto has been consolidating rights since Commodore's bankruptcy
There's a rumour that an amiga mini is going to be released this year
I never thought the original Amiga architecture was pushed to its ultimate capabilities. I don't know why I think that - but it always seemed more capable in terms of pushing pixels around the screen. I think it was ahead of its time and developers struggled with conceiving its full potential.
Part of the issue is that people programmed to the lowest common denominator. A 512k or maybe a 1 MB floppy based system. once you add some real RAM and a hard drive, it really opens up new possibilities on the Amiga. Imagine a HAM based graphics game in the mid to late eighties that ran from a hard drive - it was totally possible to do, but few had the hard drive so no one created it
@@10MARC It could have made the difference - maybe it was floppies that held the amiga back. I think you're right - HDD would have made a big difference. Just as "the last of us" was possible through that blu ray drive on the PS3. It's amazing to see new development without those restrictions you mentioned.
Here we are, 2 years later.....anything new to report?
COVID delayed the court case in 2020. There was some movement in early 2020 but it apparently fell thru. Hopefully by the end of 2021 we will have some answers.
Just rewatched this after looking up the court case again. It seems to me Hyperion needs to acknowledge that Cloanto’s parent now owns the Amiga rights and do the right thing. On the other hand Cloanto,as you say, needs to do something with it. They promised years ago to develop a Mac version of Amiga Forever but there’s no sign of it.
Yes, that sounds about right. Cloanto owns the rights, but also needs to be more vocal about what they are going to do with the product. The court cases were delayed due to COVID, so maybe late this year or next year they will move along...
So wait, does this mean that Hyperion doesn't own **anything** anymore? OS 4.x particularly? If so, it's going to be very interesting to see what happens going forward...
In the meantime, maybe I should hurry up and buy the 1200 version of 3.1.4 before things really go tits up.
The court case is still pending. My point was it does not look great, and that Cloanto seems to be holding all the cards. Lets just hope they can be cool, and not spiteful about the entire deal.
The Settlement Agreement is still in effect
A bunch of jackals fighting over dry bones me thinks.
But they are our favorite bones they are fighting over - that is what stinks, Jeff. Your analogy is spot on!
Time to buy AmigaOS 3.1.4 and 4.1 FE until we can... Cloanto seems to just want to keep the Amiga dead stuck in the 90s and sue whoever wants to move it forward...
It is sad that it almost feels like that. I do understand that Michael from Cloanto is actually a pretty good guy - Maybe he just does not have the marketing skills needed to take the Amiga where it could go.
Just have to get used to Amiga Forever, forever!
Amiga OS 4 is the future Hyperion has always wanted the whole pie
Amiga Forever is a conservation project started at the Commodore bankruptcy
Though AF's modified ROMs have mostly the same updates that 3.1.4 has
@@DeFrisselle I understand what you are saying, but Amiga OS 4.x will have a hard time being the future if it is limited to the discontinued or expensive PPC chips. I suspect there is not the Manpower or money to port it over to Intel chips or ARM chips.
@@10MARC
Hyperion is locked in to PPC due to the Settlement Agreement and previous agreements. PPC was great in the late 90's and some of the accelerators, big box Amigas, were practically PPC motherboard in a Zorro card form factor. Which all set us on this PPC path
AROS is on X86, 68K, and soon ARM for the Raspberry PI. Not a lot of manpower there and for free in the devs spare time.
So, I think it's possible if the AOS 4 dev team was a little larger and gets paid plus broader licencing for other platforms.
I think AOS 4 on a Chromebook would be amazing. The other big issue is drivers, The A1220 is being held up by that. Bigger issue than porting
And AMEN on the Vampire standalone! I'd LOVE to see that become the new "Next Gen Amiga" and get an OS built specifically for it for the future based on 3.1.4 but recompiled to take advantage of all the Apollo core features and the SAGA chipset capabilities. Something that supports big drive devices natively right out of the box without the current HELL you go through to install the OS (although 3.1.4 is certainly better on this). Something with one of the TCPIP stacks built in as standard. And for gods sake MAYBE somebody will finally write a reasonable modern browser - if we can get Chromium on Linux on a RasPi, we should be able to do it on the Vampire with 512MB RAM...
It would be pretty nice... We will see what happens
god lord , this computer was so ahead of its time so sad
it gets passed around like a mop !
About the only GOOD thing that MIGHT happen if both companies put each other out of business, is that then somebody else could come in and buy up all the licenses and rights from both and get everything under 1 roof again and HOPEFULLY clean up this utter friggin mess.
Somehow I don't want that to happen. I can't put my finger on why. Maybe because Cloanto is a known factor, warts and all, and part of me holds out hope they will team up with someone with actual marketing experience and take this somewhere. Amiga will never be a competitor with the big guys - those days are gone - but it carve a nice little niche out and do OK.
10 Minute Amiga Retro Cast have said before and will again - if I were to ever win the mega millions for a huge jackpot I would totally buy up all the IP and rights for Amiga everywhere and put it under 1 roof and then find some modernization attempt for it.
it's 2022 any updates? when the new Amiga wiil born, any pregnant signs?
Hmm... The new Amiga would be the a122 board from A-Eon. That's due out in the spring. That is using new generation amiga hardware not the classic of course. And the classic department we have the a500 Mini that just shipped this year. And the news was just released about a week ago that the evercade is going to get an Amiga collection. That's kind of cool.
Awesome video....Very interesting
I am amazed that someone still strictly holds onto Amiga/Commodore Properties at this time. The only thing that such a move does it cause problems for true Amiga enthusiasts.
Very true, but it is also wonderful that there is enough interest so someone wants to own the IP!
An A1200 is perfectly adequate as a home computer and a reproduction of it would make a great Christmas present for many. Floppy disks are quite acceptable to distribute games. Maybe use 1.4 meg disks as well as the older 800k? Macintosh drives can do that. You can get reproduction A1200 cases, so maybe Cloanto should go the whole hog and distribute a complete A1200, brand new machine?
can get motherboard too the CPU is still sold only problem is the custom chips
the market for a low cost gaming computer is here today and that what the amiga was at the time. with the steam deck and with help from hardware manufacturer a new linux base computer with low cost build in GPU would have a big market. I think build in keyboard would also interesting call back to 1980s and 1990s home computer.
I think the Switch fills that slot nicely.
@@10MARC switch is low end with games costing £60 each and its not a computer. The amiga was great computer and games computer.
While Amiga forever may not be winning any award, it is something. Would be great to hear which critiques you received for the software and interfaces you wrote :) Not to criticize since the colorful website you have does not show any sort of work related to programming, API, implementation of any sort of modern tech that can be close to make a "frontend" for an emulator, nor a github repo with anything. So I assume you are criticizing the UI of Amiga Forever just for the look; which is totally legit; it is not exactly a great looking UI.
Amiga died long time ago; the only reason why it still exist this day is because scalpers are making a ton of money with the old hardware; and companies that make FPGA and peripherals that cost more than the actual computer (if it was priced honestly and not at scalper price of course), make money thanks to the fan base. I think it would be better to just put to rest the Amiga; it had a reason to exist when it came out, but today; unless they make the equivalent in terms of technical innovation to what Miner did with the original Amiga; there is really no reason to put the Amiga name on anything these days.
I don't have the time to be a web designer, nor do I want to be. My website is designed to be simple so you can actually view it on an Amiga and have it be useful. And it is. I don't enjoy critiquing Amiga forever, because Michael is actually a friend of mine. I really like and respect him. My point is, the front end interface does not make things easier to run WinUAE, and many features just are not accessible. I have tried many times to make it useful launchers for Amiga OS using his interface, and I always run into a situation where I just can't emulate a piece of hardware or configure something, so I just launch the WinUAE interface and I get it working in about 5 minutes. Now if the interface was actually simple to use, that would be another story. But it is not particularly easier to use than just using WinUAE
@@10MARC I think there is expectation that the AF interface would do anything; while it is simply a launcher for people that does not want to deal with the UAE complexity and its quirks. If you know how to use UAE, you can use AF just for launching games; make RP9 files and have manuals, music and images in one place.
It is not meant to do more than that; so your expectation of it not being useful, is just due to the fact that you are considered a power user for UAE, and as such, don't see value in it. Most of the people do not change much when they run UAE; they just load the os or the games/apps; which make sense after all. I know many people that like that interface because they just want to play or run the pre-made config for the os. Can't make everyone happy after all; so I think AF has its place for certain Amiga users.
The sad thing is that, apparently, also the name AmigaOne in all its variations is now property of Cloanto.
Maybe they will do something cool like offer a version of Amiga Forever that includes AmigaOS 4.1 for use with WinUAE. It would sure increase the exposure of the software, which would only be a good thing. Fingers crossed...
Maybe they need to call it AliceOne ;-)
or maybe AmigaTwo with different logo design.
Under the Settlement Agreement, unless Hyperion sees to its demise, Hyperion has the right to use the name AmigaOne per the agreement
That UK based Amiga mag? Lol
Trevor should just step in and buy the whole bloody lot. He's the ONLY one who actually gives a shit about the platform.
Who is Trevor?
@@10MARC Lol. Very funny.
@@KarlHamilton seriously. No idea what you are talking about
@@10MARC Wow.
Someone just make a new Amiga for us already. HW and SW. It was the best and we would be in the future if it continued.
There are new Amiga motherboards (The A1222) coming out in a few months to work with Amiga OS 4.1 (which is still in development), and the Vampire V4 was just released as a brand new stand alone Amiga that supports Amiga OS 3.1.4
Hey I’m liking this edgier Doug shown here.
I bought Amiga Forever years ago and I don’t regret it. But I own several actual Amigas of different ROMs. As far as I’m concerned, Cloanto will not get any more money. Shame.
If Michael does things right and licenses the name, OS and ROMS I think we could see a licensed Amiga Mini in the next year or so. It will be nice when the legal mess is sorted out, though
Hyperion sounds like an evil empire that's set on dominating your area of the world.
Everyone has a story, and everyone thinks they are right. It is a tough call, I just hope everything is resolved soon.
Mine's both Cloanto and Hyperion, Aka. neutral
Could Hyperion just change their product to a patcher disk to patch 3.1 to 3.1.4. That way they're only distributing their changes and not the intellectual property. But Cloanto shouldn't be so childish and work with them.
I have heard that there are some positive steps forward being taken , and both sides are tired of the bickering. Let's hope ...
Commodore went bankrupt in 1994, not 95 :)
Escom bought all the commodore bits in 1995 ... and went bankrupt in 1996.
You are correct - I had '95 stuck in my head for some reason. I wonder what would have happened if Commodore U.K. had won the bid? Things would have been different for sure.
@@10MARC yes, but not how you would've wanted. The CBM name would have been put on printers, fax machines, monitors etc which would've been made by third parties. Amiga name would be put on clothing and other bits and pieces. Commodore name on "anything with a plug" such as kettles and toasters (yes, really).
Amiga would have had some upgrades made for it, but there probably would not have been any new models. The Amiga would have been killed off and something else replace it.
Unless they sold the Amiga IP to someone who would've made new machines, there would have been no new machines.
Remember Commodore UK had no R&D anything. They were sales and support people. They were very good at it, but that's all they were. They had little interest in doing all that expensive work when cheaper options existed.
At least Escom tried with the walker project. They ultimately overreached and paid the price, but at least they gave it a go and didn't want to just tell the name to the highest bidder or slap the name on some cheap tat.
This whole interview is interesting, but skip to 39:08 here th-cam.com/video/V3ef8ronz9E/w-d-xo.html to learn what Commodore UK would've done if they won the bid over Escom.
Without a change of architecture the Amiga was always doomed to fall out of mainstream use because Motorola stopped developing the CPU line which the Amiga depended on. It would have been rough for a couple of years but a move to x86 would have been best so people could of had dual boot OS'es with Windows.
Aug 2020 I just bought a copy of 3.1.4 from Hyperion
Very nice! Amiga OS 3.2 is being worked on and is almost complete. I am sure they will have a very reasonably priced upgrade path.
Whoa! Awesome thanks for the update :)
Bad news. this means a large company will be able to monopolise and close down hobbyist creators such as the micro 64 and retroarch systems. Seems nothing is exempt from corporate interference.
The company that bought the rights is a single person operation. Just one guy.
@@10MARC Oki doke. Hopefully then it'll be a win-win for everyone ;)
A pox on both their houses! The damned trademarks and IP are never going to make anybody wealthy. Should be turned over to a community-owned and community-run consortium at this point and all software and firmware open sourced.
I totally get what you mean, but has that ever truly been successful?
I really didn't look at the Amiga as a valid platform back in the day. Arcade game console at best. Of course I didn't even consider Apple either until 1996ish. If they would have created a much better OS (UNIX) then it could be more useful as a poor mans SPARCstation which would have been far more useful. As far as the hardware I don't know. I do know I sold them in the 80's but the C128 was the biggest seller. I think Amiga was trying to compete with Apple but really didn't do all that well. Performance wise during the time it was faster than the Applie IIGS and at a much lower cost. If memory serves; most of the nightmares was with the OS. I do remember issues with some of the hardware design but it wasn't something that couldn't be fixed. Am sure there were 3rd party expansion but as I said; I didn't consider it as a valid platform. Please keep in mind am looking at this from a Business and developer role. Whatever the top end one was called. I think I could work out an OS for it in the UNIX area as most of that is open source. Just not sure about the hardware limitations if it can handle current tech. But doing this alone I will have to say it could take a couple years to sort out given my day to day job now.
In 1985 we were Multitasking, working with 4096 color images, working on 880K floppies and genlocking our machines to video equipment. There was plenty of Word Processing and Spreadsheets available, too. Did I mention the four voice Stereo Sound, too? And we could expand to 8.5 MB in 1985 and actually USE the memory.
The PC and Macs of the time were Black and white, Green screen or 4 color. Audio was plinks and boops. Multitasking was unheard of.
Amiga was so far ahead of the competition, even Commodore had no idea what to do with it. Granted, by 1991 the PC's had started to surpass the capabilities, albeit at about 4x - 6x the cost.
Amiga did not lose because it was inferior, it lost because it could not be marketed properly.
@@10MARC Funny that people such as Lee Foster didn't consider the Amiga a "valid platform." Really, the Apple IIgs or [especially] the Atari ST [particularly at it's price point] were really the only competition the Amiga had and were still both inferior spec-wise. To me IBMs were for lamers or stodgy business-types who refused to by anything non-IBM and Apples were for rich kids. Ah, the good old days. :)
WinUAE can run PPC what?!
Sure. It has emulated a PPC for a while. You can run Amiga OS 4.1 on it if you want. Not sure if it will break any speed records, but it works.
If Cloanto has any brains left, they should grant dev-license to Hyperion, without cost. Unless they want us to place order at https slash slash ship a di** dot com....nudge nudge..say no more, eh ?
A wish someone very rich would buy it with intension to invest in amiga and maybe create a new Amiga computer..that would b great
Maybe someone that knows Elon Musk can put a bug in his ear about it. He has enough money to just piss away just for kicks. Maybe he is enough of a visionary to reboot Amiga fully.
@@menotu000 yes m8 well I hope it happens If there's ever a computer that deserves it it's Amiga ;)) I just bought a a500 again I adore them
Seems tobe that Amiga and horrible marketing decisions still belong together like a horse and carriage...
You are not wrong. They certainly could have done a better job at playing to their strengths.
who cares about the trademarks and name... just buy the chip designs, that's all that matters for production runs anyway. wether they have 'amiga' on there or 'blue led computer inc' is fully irrelevant, case sizes, logos, etc, none of that is what makes it an 'amiga'. the chips and compatibility with the existing platform are what makes it an 'amiga' or any other computer one intends to continue production of. (not even some 'amigaos', that can easily be recreated with full compatibilty from scratch, like they did with the ibm bios)
I do hope the new owner has some plans like that. We will see
@@10MARC not if they only bought the 'trademarks'... then they probably will come up with some shitty 'usb cup warmer' with an amiga logo on it sooner or later rather than a new amiga, regardless of which name it has on it.
let's just say that out of all the assets of commodore, i would not give 1 cent for the 'trademarks'. i would buy the mos chipfab w/everything in it, and the chip designs tho lol. not even the case molds, just make new cases. who cares. any car factory can make cases for you. not rocket science. it's the chip internal logic that makes it a specific computer, not some case or some logo on the outside.
people only buying 'names' are bound to end up like telefunken and grundig... once proper manufacturers of electronics, now just a logo printed on generic made in china usb sticks :P
If 3.1.4 will stop being sold. Then I suspect it will be pirated in a big way.
Yes it will be. I hope that is not what will happen, as AmigaOS 3.1.4 is really quite nice - but like I say in the video - if the new owners do nothing but drive a wedge in the community, the community will collectively give them the middle finger. None of us NEEDS the Amiga brand, the Amiga brand holders NEED us.
@@10MARC True that....
Yes. All 50 users will end up with free copies.
@@KarlHamilton I am not one of those 50. I bought my 3.1.4 pack with rom and disks.
Wow, Google is drawing a line in the sand with a back how! They're killing Inbox. For those of you who don't know, Inbox fixed Gmail. And they're just gonna do it. I guess I have to give them creds. And in response, wow how do I disentangle myself from Google. Well, this is my line in the mud. My journey begins now.
I'd love to know how American's pronounce "Loan."
Hmmm... Sounds the same as "Bone", "Phone" and "Groan" over here.
@@10MARC So, why Clo-an-to? Cloan-to.
@@Lucretia9000 lots of things are not pronounced phoneitcally, including the word phoneitcally. I have never heard it pronounced thenway you are saying it is. Remember also that accents vary all over the world, and pronunciation that sounds correct to you, other laugh at. For example, I personally believe American Southern accents sound horrible, like they don't know how to speak. (Even though about half of my immediate family speaks with a southern accent!) I don't judge them for it. (Well, except in my head... I don't vocalize it)
My wife is native Chinese and it is too funny how she butchers the American language!
WTF. Not cool man. Not cool. I worked with them and can say they are so awesome! They are building walls to stop the Amigas. :-p
You win the internet today sir, for creating that account just for this occasion! Who's going to pay for the wall? Atari!
We want new Amiga computers, powerfully built with the last x86 processors. An Amiga capable of running a new Amiga os, linux, Windows etc. That would be a winner machine.
Yes - Amiga OS4.1's reliance on old and obsolete PPC processors has crippled it for years. I suspect that the manpower and money is not there too port it too X86 architecture.
Amithlon gets you close, its been added to but suffers the same issues as Amiga os in that nobody has access to the source code.
Ive always wondered what a real time multi-tasking OS could do with a cluster of ARM CPUs. Could be something more intune with the spirit of the Amiga, no giant heat fans thanks!
Easy one: DO NOT BUY anything from them, once they do not have money, buy the whole damn thing and have in Amiga Fans hands!
That is certainly an option to consider, but the old Amiga Inc has not had a product to sell in a decade and it still existed somehow. The issue is that Hyperion kinda sold it under the table and Cloanto called foul. Then Amiga rights got bought up. Maybe it will be a good thing.
@@10MARC Here is a thing: In the beginning they all support Amiga and its fans. But greed and laziness soon takes over.
I am sure every Amiga fan had at least once in their life asked this question:
What would Amiga (Commodore) look like now?
I would say they would be something like Apple (computers), kind a niche, but very loved and supported. But I might be very wrong.
The reason we do not know: All this companies that have been trying to continue the legacy but never actually did something very significant made this situation we have now. Amiga fans seems to be persons who can play some serious money when they think the product deserve it, but laziness kills any possible progress even if there is market.
Cloanto, if they can not handle it (and I think they can't) should just say the price, we buy that thing over, and release to PD. I know, I would put some money in it.
Hyperion can't even pay the devs
Hyperion is the only one to actually do something meaningful for the Amiga community for some many years now. Sad they don"t have all the necessary rights do to this more freely :( Cloanto is just a brake pad.
I honestly see both sides. And both companies sat on the technology and did virtually nothing with it for about 15 years.
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Good news anyways
More like cloaca
1st :)