@@RoyaleMusicalseparating it between international fans and Korean fans is crazy cuz during that time it was between people who supported her and people who jumped on the bandwagon. Those who sent her hate definitely feel guilty and embarrassed because now the only time they speak is to talk down on her supporters, during the controversy there was only a small amount of people on her side
@@user-upfffftttttt but it’s true, knetz are a lot more harsh with dating scandals and bullying scandals and wanted her out as it would ruin the image of the group, international fans were the ones wanting her to stay. obviously some knetz also wanted her to stay and some iknetz wanted her out but the majority rules.
The problem for me is 1. Yeah some dances are not right for the maknae 2. Most importantly the super confident *image* and concept of the whole group WITH UNPREPARED talent is kinda....... hard to accept
3. The members themselves have been show to have more pride of their skills than what they have show. A little more of humility and doubt about them would made wonders to them.
Point 2 and 3 (on the reply) are, in my opinion, why a lot of people hate on their group. I remember some inicial stages of some groups who weren't soo good, but everyone was like "oh, they just debut, they nervous" but with LS the expectations were really high because: 1- two really experienced idols and 2- the super confident concept. I remember when Aespa debut and a lot of people criticized their stage presence (and some stans would say that's their concept, and its on purpose-wtf?) and how they are SO MUCH better today. They made more live performances, showed off their vocals, and got over the nerves they have to perform on the beginning of their journey. For LS is hard to do the same thing because of the image that hybe choose to promote them.
@@pessoinhacansada6900 exactly that's the problem they from the beginning promoted them in a very majestic way that now they are struggling to meet the expectations with such limited trainings
@@fearnot_jeans More than training i dont understand why Hybe doesn't adapt the song to what they have to work with, if we talk about the encore Yunjin sounded better in produce 48 and Sakura did fine for many years, it's like purchased a piano and expecting guitar sounds to come out of it
I’m the same age of Eunchae and while I do, do dances similar- I don’t think it’s appropriate for a company to make her to do it in front of millions of people cause it’s adults making these choreography’s for a minor and that’s weird
Just wanted to say I agree! I remember doing mildly questionable moves as a teen during dance classes BUT at worst; it was just gonna be at our dance recital. Which would be attended by people our age. Not millions of people on the internet, or the mostly male adult fan bases. I remember wanting to dress “sexy” as a teen but that’s what elders are for! To step in and protect you when you don’t realise you may be putting yourself into jeopardy. I always think of Hyuna, whose entire brand was based off sexiness when she debuted as a 14-15yr old!! Yes she’s now an adult but surely her image was shaped by being sexualised at such a young age.
I have done K-pop dance classes ( we have these in my city), there were times we danced to sensual choreographies such as Cake by Kard. However, the huge difference is the audience. While a class is being spectated by parents, friends,... of the class members ; in Hong Eunchae case, she is being watched by millions of people, including grown-people! HYBE is only good at managing BTS, other groups, they just mistreating them or just managing them terribly.
@@Natasha.Louisee same actually, i like antifragile but not the same way others were acting like it was the best song of the year…still it’s kinda sad what’s happening to them and i think a lot of fans have unfortunately given up on them at this point
same loved fearless and antifragile then unforgiven made me step away a bit then perfect night & easy solidified my dissatisfaction with concepts, direction, and sound. sadly unstanned them but hopefully in the future if they release good stuff i’ll re-stan
the only le sserafim is unforgiven lmao, but only the japanese version and mainly because of Ado... their other songs just dont hit for me, its not my type of music
I'm a stan but don't understand how can kfans defend the industry for making a minor dance to an inappropriate song but throw a tantrum when a 30yo idol dates someone like???
They're like "I don't care if the world burns down but if my husband/wife is dating someone or doing something I don't like personally, we got the problem here."
the part i find craziest in regard to minor members is how stans will infantilize and baby the maknae who is usually a minor but then when they get sexualized suddenly "they're basically an adult" ??? what is the logic
It’s funny because fans also slam companies for not protecting their idols from hate and scandal, yet when Source Music did, it’s "you’re stopping them from getting valid criticism." I’ve always said there is no consistency in K-pop. Fans will condemn an idol or company for one thing but then praise another despite the SAME thing.
Someone actually commented on my comment that support agency start to suing cyber bullying. They commented that agency suing people who write k*lling threat and SH will only make idol have weak mentality. Like....GURL ARE YOU SERIOUS, are you really saying that every artist even the minor one should just suck it up if they ever get SH comments online so they can have stronger mentality? They even mentioned that every group also get the same comments or even worse. Hey what you're writing is even worse, did you trying to say to normalize SH comments? They are nuts I tell you
I agree with what ur saying but I think that some fans don't rlly know the difference between constructive criticism and flat out hate, which is what's causing the hypocrisy I think lmao
it’s all of hybe’s fault. clearly they didn’t give them the proper training they needed for the type of music and performance that they give them. they keep debuting idols with little training experience and throw them to the wolves, which inevitably leads to cases such as lesserafim and illit getting shitted on for being “untalented”. there’s a reason why groups from the early generations didn’t have as many controversies for their singing abilities, because they all trained for 5 years, if not more, and it showed
Like 6 months as a group is nothing. You have groups like Red velvet, Monsta X etc. Who trained as a group for 2 to 3 years to accroding themselves with each members
Tbh all of their groups are like this. BTS also didnt have a lot of training time together as a whole group, Jimin also got only 6 months of training before being in the line up and had to watch the other members' vocal training sessions bc he didnt get any- which unfortunately lead to years of singing with improper technique that caused serious damage, which unfortunately shows :( I would say the only HYBE group thay got actually organized group training was TXT which had yeounjun be a trainee while BTS debuted. Other than that all of their groups didnt get proper training (not counting groups that were BOUGHT by HYBE after debuting). Vocals specially were NEVER important to Hybe but I feel like this is the first time it blew up in their face this badly.
Why is it always the company board members getting blamed?? None of these girls show a mental illness not physical illness to make them hinder through seeking a much better trainer than what hybe & somu provided. These girls are no longer 12 yrs old, they're now legal mentally capable enough to know what they're lacking in. How long has it been since they debuted?? Their weak vocals has always been pointed out but y'all love to give them excuses so they got too comfortable with showing the absolute bare minimum & look how they responded to actual valid criticisms, they acted sooo passive aggresive & that's what rubbed the whole situation wrong!! If they managed to accept it after being criticized during fearless era, then this whole vocal foasco about them would come to an end but its kpop. Y'all love to coddle kpop idols & always giving such bs excuses. Its not about the choreo nor the range of the song, its flat out that their vocals are sub par & non existent at best! What more excuses y'all gotta give them? Stop being so delusional & accept that having sub par talents will secure a long standing career.
@@cattosakamotto Well since they’re fully dependant on the type of trainers that HYBE brings into the company, that has a lot to do with it and since we’re noticing a pattern of their idols lacking in certain areas of skills, clearly the trainers being hired aren’t focusing on training them to be the best versions of themselves. added to the fact that HYBE clearly prioritises the team members visuals fitting with the chosen concept for said group, there’s a lack of care and consideration taken into the type of training they received and they’re expected to know how to execute whatever HYBE execs want them to perform (songs that are out of their vocal range, songs that require more stamina etc.) and they might’ve not been given that type of support in training prior to their groups formation
@@cattosakamotto y'all crazy for shaming these 16 yo girls bruh, they took their chance to live their dreams, don't blame them?? I'm sure they know they're lacking if they're defensive, but it won't fix itself in 6 months. grow up
It’s also partly because of how much content K-pop demands. If they released one solid mini album a year it could be more consistently high quality, but with 2-4 comebacks a year it’s just so much harder to ensure consistency (and this isn’t just lesserafim; twice are one of my ult groups but they put out so much stuff! I love it as a fan, but many releases just feel undercooked or like they don’t quite fit the concept or are clearly trend chasing - not specific to any group but I notice JYPE really milks so many comebacks a year, the girls and guys must be so exhausted :(
Yea that seems to be the problem, they have the strong brand image but very weak group structure. As in, if you look further than their performing power, they have quite a few weak spots that could be prevented by better training- which unforgiven is a common issue with all HYBE (not including bought after debut) groups
What changed after their debut album is that they lost a key member of their vocal line, many of the girls clearly were not intended to be taking vocally challenging parts and it shows
I always talk about this. If garam was still there then the encore stages and Coachella wouldn’t have been as bad. Because in a group of 6 there’s going to be members with strength and weakness that compliment each other but they clearly lost a vocal member and it shows
@@Natasha.Louisee Excatly! Garam was lead vocal together with Chaewon, while Yunjin was main. Kazuha was clearly intended to be the main rapper, which we see in Fearless, while Sakura and Eunchae sub-vocals and visuals. Garam's exit messed it up big time. Now they needed a third vocal ASAP. Their only opptions was Kazuha really, as the other two are worse. They quickly ditched her as a rapper and made her lead vocal from Unforgiven forward (as Antifragile was already pre-recorded prior to Garam leaving). Kazuha got way better than she was, but still, her lines are simply too challenging for her. You could see in Coachella, that she struggled simply due to the fact that she had too many lines, she could barely catch a breath. On the other hand, Eunchae and Sakura both get like 5-10 seconds of lines per song and they strugge even with that. Mind you, I'm a Sakura stan, I love her, but dear God, she has some real problems. I think after Garam, they should've just gotten a new girl, one who can actually sing. But now it's far too late.
Cmiiw, I have only seen one clip of Garam singing live with no backtrack (the one with her singing a line from sour grapes) and while she sounds amazing on the recording, she didn't seem to be a strong live singer either. Hybe/sm just never cared about vocals for this group and didn't think they would get this much criticism imo
@@kleinerfuchsipersonally I think eunchae is a better vocalist then kazuha. While kazuha doesn’t really seem comfortable singing at all, eunchae can has moments where she seems to actually be singing okay. I see kazuha as a dancer and rapper not a sub-vocalist. It also makes no sense for eunchae to have less lines then Sakura when Sakura is asking for the least amount of lines and eunchae and kazuha currently sing better then her.
I love le sserafim and their music but when i see Kazuha and Eunchae it feels like they literally just woke up and decided they wanted to be an idol without any prep. Ofc they can habe the dream but they also need to put the work. There are times where kazuha is looking around waiting for the next step and eunchae voice is very very singing in the car. I do, however, have a lot of hope for the groups future as they have, imo, one of the best leaders, Chaewon. I cant wait for their comeback. Im sure they will be back stronger than ever! ❤
@@aesserafim585Surely there were other trainees with more experience and higher level of skill because debuting someone who only had 3 months of training is insane! Not saying that she couldn’t do well but I think that too short a time to get ready for debut.
Smart and Fearless aren't the only songs that makes me unconfortable regarding Eunchae. I mean... Maybe Impurities isn't about sex, but it can be interpreted this way and, personnally seeing Eunchae performing this song always makes me a little bit unconfortable, same with the outfits for no-return. Like bro, this is LITTERAL lingerie !! In each comeback, there's a problem with the minors and at this point I don't think it is a coincidence and I don't find it funny. If you want to make a group with a kinda sexy concept, then PUT ADULTS IN IT, it is not that hard to do !
@@Yoongi10269 no one is acting like anything, “Want it more like a witch Show you the real me, the light growing dark red” it literally talks about witchy powers and constantly mentions them showing their real selfs “*Covered in scars that are hard opaque So natural, beautiful*” it’s obviously about powers and uses it to symbolize flaws being both a strength and someone’s darkness, literally STOP WATCHING PORN!!!
@@Yoongi10269 literally from the artist themselfs “We're pursuing to be antifragile. It's not that we're really fearless [the title of their first EP], like we're not scared of anything. But we pursue to be fearless people. I hope that our fans, whenever they face fears or adversities or bump into a wall, I hope they listen to our music and gain strength through these messages." Now onto lyrics “*Covered in scars that are hard opaque So natural, beautiful*” but sure it’s about sex and not flaws being both strength and a power, you’re saying subtle when that’s how you interpreted but the English lyrics really look like someone talking about flaws in genius it EVEN SAYS “The line “show you my impurities” suggests a willingness to reveal one's flaws and imperfections to a loved one.” Almost anything can be interpreted as sexual nowadays, someone could punch a wall and people would sexualize it. The whole TRACK was quite literally about strength and empowerment. You guys interpreting it weirdly doesn’t change the actual meaning of the song at all. stop watching 🌽.
One of the reason of this hate train might be how fearnots were literally talking about how yunjin is a trained opera singer when in reality she only performed in a high school musical and when she could not live up to those expectations that were set up for her they started going after her for EVERYTHING
REALL. I'm a fearnot but I won't lie, a bunch of fearnots were setting her up. Sure she did a few opera things or whatever but she's not trained. I hope my girl is okay.
THANK YOU FOR THE CHOREOGRAPHY CONVERSATION, sexualising and romanticising children is in general such a prevalent practice at Hybe but with Le Sseraphim it has been the most "in-your-face" as possible, and the amount of people DEFENDING IT sends me spiraling
I hate when people use that term like oh this "K-Pop group is a punching bag" no... not really . lesserafim deserves some of the hate and criticism that they got, they went a long time without having to know how to sing live, and when they had to Sing live, they messed up, and then Sakura went online and tried to play the victim card and saying "we tried our best, and if that was your best at Coachella, then you shouldn't be a K-pop idol. You can only edit and autotune your voice for so long until the truth comes out.
regarding the smart choreography, i feel like the older members should be looking out for eunchae in cases like that right? of course we don't know what goes on behind the scenes but me personally if one of my members whose a minor had to do choreo like that i feel like i would have something to say about it. not saying the other members were all for it or anything just a genuine question
Le sserafim’s collab with ado for their Japanese version of “unforgiven” was what made me discover them and become an absolute kpop stan (because before that I would just casually listen to stray kids and xdinaty heroes without even bothering to learn the members’ names), I stan le sserafim to this day and I 100% agree with everything that had been said in this video!! I am a year younger than Eunchae and when “smart” mv came out I got kinda worried about her because if I were in her situation, that choreography would make me really really uncomfortable because of obviously being a minor and I feel like she didn’t have much to say about it (or she didn’t care, dunno, just saying what it was like from my perspective). About the church thing: I am a Christian and while people can feel offended, I personally don’t see any issue since that church is being regularly rented for concerts, shooting movies and etc AND it was a protestant church so there was no tabernacle there. If they would be dancing in front of a tabernacle I would stop for a second and google if this is even allowed since tabernacle is where the Eucharist is stored.
I grew up as Christian, with family history in both Lutheran and Orthodox churches, and what bothered me about this discourse was how people painted Christians to be a monolith. Yes, some Christian denominations and groups might find the MV location offensive, but they can't dictate to other Christians how they should feel about it. The church in question clearly felt fine about it, and I haven't seen any outrage from religious groups in SK itself either. I was kind of reminded of Pussy Riot, a Russian feminist group that was arrested for performing as protest in an Orthodox church, and responses to it. Obviously LS shooting a commercial music video in a church is different, but where is the line?
I'm Christian too and here are some things that were weird and maybe offensive to some: - half-naked sexy dancing. You wouldn't even be allowed into most European churches dressed like that, they would ask you to cover yourself. The super sexual dancing in a church is also quite questionable. - Location: why was this even shot in a church? Nothing about the lyrics or music suggest anything like that. There have been some really beautiful videos done in a church, so I'm not against it. It's just why the Easy video with that clothes and overtly sexual dance? The video could have been shot in a warehouse, a street or in a park, why did it need to be in a church of all places? - cross with band logo: they took the cross and turned it into a neon sign with the band logo on it, now that is a complete no-go! - Eunchae is wearing devil's horns on her head. Why??
@@Winnangh its because there is nothing sincere about stan outrage. They dont actually care about what you have to say if it isnt in line with what they WANT you to. I stopped taking it seriously years ago.
The way that Yunjin was in a TikTok video with Laufey I think and in Laufey’s comments was just a bunch of people saying “get away quick Laufey” or “she’ll taint you with bad vocals” like it’s fucking ridiculous
What scares me a lot, that you sometimes don't know that some members of groups are minors if you are not actively looking at their profiles or something. I literally didn't know for a long time, that LS has minors because their styling, make-up and dancing makes them look so much older... (maybe except for their debut but I never really watched their mv's so...) there are groups where you can see that they have some members who are minors (like for ex. Illit's Wonhee because she literally looks like a child), but seeing how old people are got extremely hard... not only in kpop... I mean, I am still getting asked for my ID because I am older than I look at it can be the other way round...
I love when I meet another Blue Flame enthusiast. When I tell you that was the only song I listened to for weeks. I was always singing it. I know whole parts of that song and I don’t even speak Korean. I never really listened to music but Blue Flame got me and til this day it’s my favorite song. I don’t know why it has me but it does 😂
Eunchae would fit in better on Newjeans or Illit. Then with some more experienced idol, preferably that can sing and dance, the entire Leserafim concept would not be so inappropriate. But hey as an Orthodox Christian I can tell you Leserafim and the concept mastermind behind them thats the CEO of Hybe are not angels. They are rude and arrogant.
this might be absolutely irrelevant to the topic of this video but I honestly feel like with le sserafims concept they really should be writing or at least pitching in a little bit more with the writing, producing and composing of their songs like there concept is about their personal life and journey not to mention that some of the songs that they have written/ helped with are some of their best works some examples: all of Yunjin solos were written by herself, Yunjin and kkura helped write good parts, I'm not sure but I did here that Eunchae wrote we got so much, and I believe that Yunjin helped write flash forward, yunjin also helped write blue flame, yunjin helped write impurities, she helped write no celestial, she also helped with Between you, me and the lamppost, and Eve, Psyche & the Bluebeard’s wife ( also I'm not saying that is the girls fault that they aren't doing this)
4/5 lesserafim members actually have credits on swan song with personal references being included in the song, so to me it would have been a perfect title track. I get that easy was the literal embodiment of the concept, but when they already had many elegant songs I think they easily could have had swan song as the title track. It also would have allowed them to show more of their talent in singing because swan song is more in the members range and the choreography was easier. The least they could have done is make a MV to promote swan song more. The members do a lot of work on their b-sides but no one knows because it’s a b-side, it’s really sad seeing that happen.
I dont think ppl didn't consider Le sserafim as a threat before Perfect Night, PN is really not an impactful release from them. Since their debut and the release of mega-hit ANTIFRAGILE Le SSerafim have been talked about and considered as one of the Big Three of their generation alongside IVE and Aespa ( this was before Nujeans debut ). The idea that PERFECT NIGHT made people consider them as threat is seriously misguided
I'm more of a Chaewon stan more than a fearnot but I like their songs. The problem here is hybe and their management. Garam situation, putting minors in this group having a concept which doesn't suit them, and getting them too soon for Coachella. Even advertising them as the goats when they struggle with performances knowing how harsh stans are. But as always people harass the members of a GG instead of hold accountable the people in charge. Nothing that happened with this group allows people to harass the members.
It was also how they managed the coachella performance. most groups lower the intensity of the choreography, lesserafim had the exact same dance moves, and most of the time they didn’t stop when singing harder parts.
I love lesserafim, the things they are doing like the dance moves and their vocals need work, but the amount of hate they are getting is crazy I don’t think they deserve it
Honestly peoples shit a lot on Sakura for not being good but she did okay for years before that, they hired Izone most popular member and dont take what she can do into account and try to force their thing onto her, if you take someone give her something she can do. Feel insane how she sounded better in her graduation concert solo songs compared to LSF encore
As for the whole minor issue, my unpopular opinion is if they wanted the concept that le sserafim has, eunchae should have never made the group. its unfair and wrong that she has to dance sexually just bc the other girls are adults. and if the other girls want to do this concept, its unfair to do something they don't want bc of one member who is a minor. i don't get why they debut groups with large age gaps between members. Eunchae shouldn't have been in the group, her age and the groups concept is not compatible and just inappropriate.
I think HYBE’s whole concept as a company is that their idols can do any and every concept and pull it off. For BTS and Enphyen, it works for them but for LSFRM, I feel like they didn’t have the versatility yet and Fearless was what your typical idol group would give and it worked for them because that’s their skill set. Everything after the debut was out of all the girls comfort zone and was pretty much foreign to them and you can tell
Bts litteraly had time. Before in 2nd generation and 3rd generation they had time to be rookies. They debuted perfectly but had time to grow. Now their debut are not so perfect, and we expect them to have a first win.
It did work well for BTS but like the other comment said they had a whole bunch of time. They weren't a hit as soon as they debuted. If they debuted now like they debuted before, then they would just be swept up because of how much more competitive the industry is.
Right and BTS were already being dragged to absolute filth since their debut lol if they debuted today it would be absolutely brutal. Some of the most important things abt BTS that HYBE cant understand was their growth OVER THE YEARS, the involvement of the members in the music and the slow but steady maturing of their music. HYBE wants the numbers BTS got after 7 years in a debut while still not improving their training style so ofc they're setting their groups up for failure.
I personally never saw the barcardi move as sexual since it isnt twerking (which i dont think is inherently sexual, however has become sexual, kind of like belly dancing) I would say it is on par with umlando which also isnt sexual, this is my unique experience and view and i think alot of people in my country view it similarly, however i can also see how it can be percieved as a bit sexual. Now the drop it like its hot with the legs open facing the front is 100% sexual, and hybe is definitely catering towards sexual deviants, it could have been changed to the same move but a diagonal facing, arabesque (the back leg straight) and their arms in standard arabesque position, and the leg swings around to the front or bends back into a squatted position and they stand back up normally, which isn't sexual. Sexual deviants will find anything children do sexual, however this was deliberate on hybes side.
I will say something with love. If we ignore mistakes of everyone the world not will be a better place. I love some of their songs. But why a group with limited skills get so much attention when we have so many skilled groups? This is totally unfair.Why their company doesn't work to make them better.?A big company like Hybe has a great staff not only to choose idols to debut but and coaches. I thought most of their problems are company 's fault but sometimes when i read the post of Sakura i think that they don't care about their fans. I am marketer and actress and i would tell you so many methods to make them better but is loosing time for them.
I thought it was funny how HYBE promoted Le sseraifim as this fearless, industry changer group then goes out there way to drop a song like smart. Their debut releases were pretty good but I hope HYBE doesn't become too greedy and start hopping on trends just so the songs can become mainstream.
I’ll keep it real a portion of the lesserafim hate has to do with their fans. Fearnots were and still are constantly fighting with kpop gg fandoms about how talented and better the members are compared to other groups even though that usually is not the case which sets lesserafim up for harassment from fans of other groups who were already mad. For example, Fearnots were talking smack to every fandom who questioned the girls’ skills. They said, “Well at least they are going to coachella, they’ll show you how talented they are there.” When the videos came out of their lacklustre performance stans of the groups who Fearnots previously “attacked” came full force to laugh at lesserafim. Not because they hate the members, but because kpop fans always take out annoyance for the fandom on the idol. I could be biased here cause I’m a tokki (Newjeans fan) but when it comes to minors in kpop and the weird shit their company does, I’m experienced. I was there during the cookie situation and I remember not caring much about it since I was 16 so why would it creep me out. Now as an 18 year old I definitely can not listen to the song anymore. Unfortunately I don’t think I can unstan Newjeans which is where I sympathize with Fearnots. I’ll always call out ADOR if I feel like anything is weird in their content, but I love the actual members and they make good songs, so unstanning is something I just wouldn’t do. But I also understand why people are not comfortable with groups like lesserafim and Newjeans and I do not blame them for it being a turn off completely. Especially if you have other groups you are already more interested in. (Sorry for yapping🫣, love your videos btw)
I didnt even know le sserafim had minors... I watched so many reels of smart's dance WHICH ONES R MINORS???? HOW MANY TIMES DID I WATCH THEM SHAKE ASS??? I actually feel like throwing up......... this is UNREAL wtf
You hit every single mark with this video! I used to ult them I LOVED them and their music as a group until the chaotic mess that happened with Coachella and what followed afterwards. They really did have a very brutal fall to the bottom, I noticed even when I was a fan, some of the delulu fans will try to manipulate SO HARD 😭 Like what you said about the sexualization of minors, some of the fans will try to convince you that Eunchae doing a dance like Smart isn't incredibly inappropriate for her to be doing 😭 Even I was convinced they were right until I thought about it without the heavy bias. I still listen to their music occasionally but I defiantly do not ult them anymore 😭 I feel bad for them in a way, and I hope they can redeem themselves but idk if they can tbh.
The unfortunate fact is that the succes they got as a group relied almost entirely on their IMAGE, not on the members. If we look at it from afar, ANY idol could be a part of this group and it wouldn't change much, aside from the ex IZONE members' success and maybe the badass western member that is yujin. With this shitshow, they'll have to kinda prove that they deserve their spot as le sserafim, not by having badass concepts, but by showing the MEMBERS' strength. Which they DO have, but it'll take a lot of training for them to fit the fearless, antifragile le sserafim. Also yeah, a lot of the hate they're getting is unfortunately a direct result of fearnots being unhinged lmao
They have Yunjin and Chaewon as their strongest vocalists but also choose songs to be sang in the range they are uncomfortable with. If there is any biggest hater of them. It's their own production team.
when i see these kinds of videos im always reminded how netizens hate their idols to death (sulli for example). i hope that le sserafim can improve in the future and get over the hate
its kinda sad that they were so big and then they just kept falling, losing popularity and credibility over time due to the continuous amount of bad decisions that both hybe and the girls themselves kept making. i dont stan them anymore but i hope they stop getting so much hate (and improve eventually), they do deserve some criticism but netizens are getting out of control now
Hate the game, not the player. The members are funny kind and caring. Yes, they've made some minor mistakes (only if you're walking on egg shells). What group hasn't. Their content is top-notch. I Stan them yes for their chemistry, performance, content, and music. Mainly because they're entertaining. I think the whole Ador Hybe thing really pushed the hate to extreme.
Of all the Le Sserafim criticism them performing in a church has always baffled me as the church is a well-known filming and performing location, Helena by MCR's mv was filmed there. While I do agree with a lot of the other criticism but not the blatant hate that some people put towards the girls
I just wish idols had more control over the ways they are portrayed in general, it’s absolutely disgusting that companies make minors dance in such ways, but I also don’t like how as soon as an idol turns 18 everything is magically fine and who cares. Like, if they WANT to do those things, then yes, they’re legally adults capable of making their own decisions and they should be allowed to do so. But I honestly don’t believe many idols can just voice their opinion like that and change the concept that the company spent money on, so on that note they still are young girls (or boys) who shouldn’t be forced to act in ways they don’t want to (which applies to any age group really). Ofc we don’t know what those idols think and we can’t do much about it I guess :/
OMG LOVE THE THUMBNAILLLL AHAHA MOTHERRR not a le sserafim stan but im pretty sure the eunchae mocking students thing was confirmed to be clipped maliciously/out of context i genuinely hope the girls can make a comeback after the hate train ❤
I remember reading some comments before that hybe only get talented idols because they don't want to train them (this was during the early years of hybe) well, that didn't age well and all of a sudden the mighty walls started to show cracks. I honestly wouldn't blame the idols since I don't fully know how hybe works - do they just let idols do what they want, etc.. but yeah. Also, I feel like they sometimes try to thrive in negative publicity, like the eyekon issue or the tws and enhypen one, it's arguable ofc. anyways, at the end of the day, idols will be the most affected, mentally
I feel like their idols are the ones with the most POTENTIAL, which hybe confuses with already refined talent and are like "ok so we'll give u a couple of months to train and you'll be good to go!" Which may work short term but long term turns into... This. As much as I hate SM the reason they're the top 3 of kpop is their immaculate training system. Hybe thinks having a mildly talented, very pretty and charismatic idol is enough to carry a whole group. They were getting arrogant imo. Too focused on the numbers their groups were getting and not the groups themselves.
I find deferences in personal music taste fascinating. I’ve watched a couple of your videos so I know that you love Ive’s music so much that they’re your ult group. I personally casually follow them I do like their music and tune in to their comebacks but they haven’t clicked with me in a way that would make me want to stan them though. While in contrast I started stanning Le Sserafim with Antifragile something about their just clicked with me for some reason. But my enjoyment of their music started dwindling with Unforgiven to the point that the Easy ep is probably my most disappointing comeback this year. I still like the girls and think all the hate they’ve been getting has been taken too far. But also with everything thats happened recently I’ve found it hard to support them and I’m not really sure how to feel about them so I’ve just been keeping my distance. Your videos are great btw!!! ❤
As a fearnot, I agree so much! I love the girls but hate SouMu. The concept honestly doesn't fit the girls besides possibly Yunjin and Chaewon and MAYBE Kazuha. But for how much they were hyping up Sakura predebut as the face of the group then gave her a concept that she doesn't fit her is so ironic. Not to mention that few of their songs are actually in the girls' vocal ranges. A retro/cute concept like when they performed HOPE would actually be so good, they all suit it I think (but with 1800-Hot-n-Fun I doubt they'll be doing this concept anytime soon).
I'm an old k-pop fan. Minors in groups has always been weird to me. It's weirder seeing people my age always picking the youngest of the group as their bias... Very telling.
I heard people say the church where they shot their music video wasn't a real church and just a set, and that many other artists also use that same set to film their music videos. But I can also see where this may be offensive because churches are sacred places to many religions.
I agree, but that’s not the only time Le Sserafim has used Christianity as an “aesthetic”. Like when Sakura was wearing a crown of thorns for a concept photo. No hate to Sakura or the girls, their management is to blame for that
I’d argue that Le Sserafim aren’t the most hated idols. They still get a lot of support. Perfect Night, Easy, and Smart did really well on the charts. If we want to talk about hated groups, Itzy can’t put out anything without it being torn to shreds by the public. And they don’t get the same levels of success these days are Le Sserafim do (despite how much people seemingly dislike them). Also, Wonyoung of IVE can’t even breathe without people attacking her. When it comes to Le Sserafim, I see their hate train coming from a few different places. The first is obviously the varying opinions on their concept, as it is derived from Christianity. Many disliked it from the get-go and it only worsened with Unforgiven and Smart. While I personally think that anyways religion that has impact beyond the scope of its followers (which is basically every religion) should rightfully be open to constructive discussion both verbally and in media use, there is a line where you have to remain respectful. That is, unless your message is hating the religion, then I guess respect isn’t something you’re considering. In Le Sserafim’s case, they’re obviously just using Christianity as inspiration for their concept and aren’t trying to make an entire think piece on whether on it. So, they can’t be disrespecting Christians by dancing in a church if they want to continue using Christianity as the core of their concept. The second has to do with their vocals. Yunjin’s classical training is obviously amazing and you can’t ignore how impressive she is within that style. But when it comes to pop vocals, the group is objectively weaker in that regard. I think this is a symptom of a bigger problem. HYBE stans have a big us-vs-them mentality. This derives a lot from how HYBE artists have a bigger international reach than most groups (aside from Blackpink and Stray Kids). Many stans of HYBE groups believe that their faves are bigger than KPop and shouldn’t be discussed within the context of the industry. This makes other stans mad and actively look for reasons to hate these HYBE groups. Since HYBE is weak vocally across the board, Le Sserafim’s vocal shortcomings are low hanging fruit to attack. And granted, this kind of hate is common for all HYBE groups. Not just Le Sserafim. But honestly, I don’t think anything else they find themselves under fire for are unique to just Le Sserafim. Plenty of things they get hated for are also thrown at their peers. Itzy, IVE, Lapillus, NewJeans, Illit, Class:y, etc. have all been criticized for “questionable” (to put it lightly) choreographies given to minors. Tons of remixes? That’s a common practice these days. Heck, that’s ALWAYS been common. But the number being pumped out has increased drastically to keep up with the demand from the streaming era. And no, (G)I-DLE did not say “I want that remix-sy no Sserafim”. The lyrics of “I Want” go, “I want that oui, merci, no, c’est la vie”. Yunjin ordering Starbucks? Idols both male, female, groups, and soloists have been called out for purchasing from companies/vendors that are currently being condemned for potentially funding Jen Aside (I think the accusations against certain companies have been debated, but I’m not 100% sure, so I’m saying potentially in case I’m wrong). Being cringey? Again, Wonyoung couldn’t eat a strawberry in peace without being told she needed to end things. Her, Yuna, and Eunchae are like the 4th gen pick-me squad where they can’t do anything without being dogpiled by the internet. There’s a reason why encores “aren’t fun” anymore. Idols are afraid that saying/doing the wrong thing will bring hate to themselves and their group. So, standing still and not doing much is the only way to avoid that. So yeah, I personally think on the group’s concept and HYBE’s mishandling of Garam’s false accusations are the only thing unique to the group’s hate train. Even their vocal technique being criticized is something seen pretty widely amongst 4th and 5th gen groups (especially from HYBE). Otherwise, they’re still extremely successful (especially since they possess two former Iz*one members) and are still able to compete with their 4th gen peers. Whether or not they’ll survive the Fourth Year Fever is another story. We’ve already seen it claim Itzy. And StayC look like they might be in trouble as well. While most of the backlash the group gets is unjustified (and plenty of it deserves to be targets at their fans, their company, and their team including management, stylists, producers, directors, choreographers, etc.), they still shouldn’t be shielded from criticism. Unfortunately, it’s very rare that you find those voicing actual criticism and not just adding more fuel to the fire since engaging in sensationalism is one of the easiest ways to garner clout. *TLDR: I don’t think Le Sserafim is any more hated than some of their peers, especially Itzy and Wonyoung. Plus, they have the success to outweigh the hate. That doesn’t mean the hate doesn’t exist and I’m not justifying it. I’m just saying that it has yet to impact their actual success, charting, and monetary standings.* Anyways, great vid! I really enjoyed hearing a new voice contribute to this dialogue! ❤️
i'm one year older than eunchae and honestly its so weird to watch her dancing that way on stage if she was in a party with her family and/or friends thats on her but If she's dancing on a stage to thousands of people with a choreo that was created by an adult then its kinda weird (english is not my first language so sorry if its not well written)
This whole hate wagon Is just childish I’m not rlly into kpop that much anymore but I’m surprised this is still going Like I don’t believe one bit all these kpop fans care about vocals 😂
I mean we already have examples of what happen with celebrities debuting as singers really young - Justin Bieber, Britney Spears, Justin Timberlake, Usher and so on. Ofc this is the western industry but music industry as a whole is the same when it comes to exploitation. I won't be surprised if one of the minors within the Kpop industry end up like one of these names - severely depressed, exhausted, act violently, etc. The pressure is a lot and let's remember that they are trainees before that which further the issues.
So I know that this video is 6 days old, but I just watched it and I just wanted to express on the topic of minors because I myself am a minor. Personally, I love listening to music such as KIOF (just wait), and even learn some of their choreographies. But the only places I perform these choreographies is in my room because I don't feel comfortable. I would feel so bad being forced to do those choreographies on stage where there can potentially be creeps watching me. ( I don't know if you saw that one clip of that one male fan that was trying to take a picture under Mina's skirt even though she just returned from hiatus). Also on the clothes, I wear like shorts, but one time my shorts were too short for me and I didn't realize it, but I walked around the entire school with a hoodie around my back covering myself. I feel sorry for Eunchae and I hope that she heals.
Girl i got you. Blue Flame is that song and they never got close of that level of perfection again. I personally found very hard fo connect with them ever since Garam was removed from the group and the fact that they peaked on their debut wasn't helping as well. Plus i don't feel "safe" stanning a group that is under fire so often for stupid reasons that their company could easily handle if they did their job properly. Like, why put your maknae in that situation? Why there's no soundcheck for their Coachella so they can prevent that situation? Why give them a song that's clearly out of their vocal range and on top of that make the choreo super challenging? Why? Such easy solutions to all their problems yet they keep running into weird situations.
No, kpop stans confuse me. They are like Kpop stants when an idol with no vocals:🤬🤬 Kpop stans when idols that can't dance:🤬🤬 Kpop stands when idols are adults:🤬🤬 Kpop stans idols when they're minors:🤬🤬 Kpop stans when their idols has visual, can sing, can dance:🤬🤬 Kpop stans when an Idol doesn't have visual:🤬🤬 Kpop stans when an idol:🤬🤬
Hey girl, I actually really love the way you share your opinions and how you make it easier for us to understand your prespective! And I was just wondering since the way you speak is very clear, I wanna hear your opinion about kpop fans getting triggered by the most simple things/comments ever and how you think we should respond to them. Btw girl you are extremely gorgeous❤
I used to stan lesserafim like hardcore, but over time the company sexualizing Eunchae really turned me off from the group. Then overtime I stopped stanning all groups under the company because they keep doing it to other minors. I still love the members but I feel I can’t support the girls without also indirectly supporting the companies acts. I express my frustrations with the companies along with others but they just don’t seem to care. I think having Eunchae do the smart dance was the worst choice on the companies part, it seems more people are serious when it comes to protecting Eunchae.
@@cranburrey I became a fan during antifragile, I didn’t like fearless so I didn’t watch anything to do with it and found out a bit after of what the dance entailed. Also I’m not on Twitter so I’m not always up to date on groups. But it’s inappropriate especially at the time it was 2 minors.
I don’t know much but this 5:01 exact point is what I heard too and I just laughed like girl bfr! I think people were unnecessarily hating on her but she did sound arrogant with that statement. 7:34 also this point I’d like to say that when new jeans debuted with ‘attention’, one of the members was wearing that red bandana top and it cringed me out because looking at her I knew she’s a minor.
I personally stan Lesserafi because i like their music and i genuinely love the bond that the girls have wit each other...BUT YEAH WTF HAPPENED WITH EASY?? I like the "intro" Good bones and We got so much were so good imo. I just dont like smart at all. I like to quote the chorus sometimes just for fun but other than that i dont like it. Ive also been considering unstanning the group because altho i am a big fan of their dynamic and they make me happy, their music since easy has been lacking. This is coming from someone who adored the group up until this point and now i just dont really vibe with what hybe are doing to the members. I mostly listen to Yunjin's solo work because its genuinely more my style. Ive never been an album buyer mainly because im trying to be a responsible adult. I only stream their music on spoitfy and watch their reality shows on youtube and thats about it. But it genuinely made me so sad to see how hybe and other people are treating lesserafim. Though i understand the criticism of them not being the best vocals but i think they are alright and all the hate towards their vocals genuinely makes me wanna defend it tho i know its not the best. So thats why i stay away from Fearnot twt lol. Anyway thanks for reading yall!
Regardless of what's being said in this video, it's so funny to me that you look like an angel and then all of the sudden you're like "fucking look, use your eyes man" 💀😂 I love it
Le sserafim was meant to debut with the ‘fearless’ and ‘strong’ type of persona that they honestly weren’t able to keep up and hybe kept pushing saying that they could!! And pushed their sound for the group so much, most of them couldn’t even sound good with their songs and with easy it showed, they’re talented but I wish hybe gave them something else that suited them, starting with unforgiven then easy 😭
I've heard that LeSserafim started with a sort of "model off-duty" look and complimenting sound, but in they more recent releases they have a more rebellious attitude and weare more cool casual fashion like demin and distressed pieces.
ILYSM!! LE SSERAFIM, is one of my ults and I'm so glad your commentary was without genuine hate and back-handed statements, I would also like to mention that Yunjin has apologized numerous times for the St*rbucks drink incident but HYBE kept deleting her posts in the apps, she also showed support through live and such and posting watermelons after the incident! (*ALSO! SUBSCRIBED*
The most disappointing aspect of their group is the lack of attention towards important basics and skills when it comes to vocals. It is literally one of the reasons someone will listen or follow your group. Now if you cannot deliver properly, then there should be room and grace for improvement. In LSF's case, it seems like that isn't the case. They focused heavily on performing and left out literally proper vocals. What's more disappointing are some of the fans who will gaslight and label anyone a hater if you had the same type of criticism for their vocal skills. With regards to the minors in HYBE, I fully agree but personally though, I'm not one to like any kind of overly sexual dance regardless of age. Why? It's because most fans wait for a certain age and then justify that it's alright for anyone to dance that way because they're old enough. I watched the Smart MV at least once, and I'll never do so again. Call me a prude or whatever, but I didn't switch to listening to Kpop from many Western artists just to find the same amount of sexualization. Then again, this might just turn me off from the entire genre itself. Unfortunately, LSF has opened my eyes towards that reality. I do hope the best for the girls and that their company helps them improve vocally and gives them better songs. Imo, Perfect Night and Antifragile stand as their best songs to date.
fearnot here i didn't know le sserafim were getting this much hate bc i've been away from twt for a while and when i do get on i'm focused on kep1er really so i really appreciate you making this video i agree with you that hybe is shit when it comes to debuting minors and not protecting them i was there from debut so i literally watched garam's bullying scandal in real time i thought they were actually protecting her but they disappointed me by kicking her out when they literally had proof of her innocence and on top of that some of the choreo for some songs isn't appropriate for eunchae i can excuse some dance moves that are mild but dropping to the ground and spreading your legs um we still have a minor in the group hybe chill please i have nothing to say about the girls themselves like this bc all or most problems i have come from hybe/somu i will say tho i saw the hate train coming bc i stanned bts in the past and still stan txt hybe groups getting hate doesn't surprise me anymore i just feel bad for the girls right now
literally agreed on all your points. i think hybe focuses way too much on their perfect choreography over vocals. like besides new jeans i haven't been able to see consistent decent vocals. like yeah i get ppl are upset from their lacking vocal skills but they should be mad at hybe rather than the girls bc hybe doesn't really train their idols. i don't really like hybe's music style anyways. i literally mainly listen to 1st-3rd gen groups since 4th-5th gen is not my style
8:36 Ok, I get it. But I think it’s not only about minors, but about sexualizing idols overall. I don’t think that a person being 18 makes them be more mature and have a new “mind” compared to a person who is just one year younger. I get that, legally, one is an adult and the other one is a minor, but people should realise that being sexualized isn’t good either at all for people who just became adults (and can’t decide if they want to be sexualized or not). I’m 18, and I personally think I’m not prepared to be an adult yet, I’m not ready and I still feel I’m a child and that I need to learn and be way more mature to actually become an adult.
yeah as someone who just turned 18 its like dude there's no difference except that you are "legal". like the fact that I could legally have an onlyfans right now is disturbing, my brain is nowhere near developed enough to make that decision 😭
Tbh Sakura is one of hybe’s most profitable idols. She is probably the reason why this group is as popular as it is in Japan Sakura probably made them 10s of millions bc of her fame in Japan and yet they can’t give her the curtsy of good vocal lessons and freeing her schedule to do them. this is a hybe issue with amount of groups they debut with lacking vocals.
@2:47 - yeah it does look underwear; isn't Itzy's Ryujin currently having a similar controversy? It's just odd that nobody notices before a performer goes on stage like that, or do they notice and its to get attention . . . I don't know. Let's just hope it doesn't catch on as a fashion trend.
Honestly, I felt pretty neutral abt Le Sserafiim but hearning their coachella performance did make me feel like some other artist (not specifically kpop) should have performed in their place :'D
For me the only actually good title track that Le sserafim released so far was "antifragile", but they have some decent b-sides ngl But the main reason i like them is that they are really entertaining when doing variety shows, so yeah i'm not in it for the music for this group, Hybe seems to want to maintain this trendy fashion icon image about the group, but doesn't care about giving them good music as much.
i really like those girls as people and as a group, THANK YOU for pointing out the sexualization because it genuinely makes me queasy like what the hell were they thinking… may we have another antifragile/blue flame? i don’t understand why they’re playing with the grey area of eunchae being 17 that’s still a minor… protect that girl pleaseeee. i’m thankful comments are off. i do deeply miss supporting those girls tho because i really adore them as people
I'm surprised you didn't mention that even since predebut leserra already invites ire from people because they replaced GFriend in Source Music. And then the Garam thing hit them. Their obvious lack of training in singing. The church controversy. People turning away because of Yunjin. And finally the Coachella performance - I never seen a group from a big studio so troubled like them since the very beginning. And now for me their music isn't enough to safe them because of their lack of identity. They sound like generic western music now, their voice could be replaced by any other English pop star and nothing would change. It's really sad honestly
FIRSTTT❤ can I get a pin 😅😅
Thank you for being here 💌❤
@@Natasha.Louiseeyou’re very pretty
It's absolutely insane how people were asking hybe to kick garam out and then when they did it's suddenly "omg we miss our girl 🥺"
it was mainly korean fans wanting her out and international fans wanting her back
It’s because the people who wanted her gone piped down and the ones who wanted her in were the only ones left.
@@RoyaleMusicalseparating it between international fans and Korean fans is crazy cuz during that time it was between people who supported her and people who jumped on the bandwagon. Those who sent her hate definitely feel guilty and embarrassed because now the only time they speak is to talk down on her supporters, during the controversy there was only a small amount of people on her side
@missdiorfairy ( i know you can tap to replay, it’s hard to for me ) frr and seulgi’s cosmic era pfp ate up
@@user-upfffftttttt but it’s true, knetz are a lot more harsh with dating scandals and bullying scandals and wanted her out as it would ruin the image of the group, international fans were the ones wanting her to stay. obviously some knetz also wanted her to stay and some iknetz wanted her out but the majority rules.
The problem for me is
1. Yeah some dances are not right for the maknae
2. Most importantly the super confident *image* and concept of the whole group WITH UNPREPARED talent is kinda....... hard to accept
For real ! I don't understand how Hybe trained them for 6 months as a group and expected to be confident?
3. The members themselves have been show to have more pride of their skills than what they have show. A little more of humility and doubt about them would made wonders to them.
Point 2 and 3 (on the reply) are, in my opinion, why a lot of people hate on their group. I remember some inicial stages of some groups who weren't soo good, but everyone was like "oh, they just debut, they nervous" but with LS the expectations were really high because: 1- two really experienced idols and 2- the super confident concept.
I remember when Aespa debut and a lot of people criticized their stage presence (and some stans would say that's their concept, and its on purpose-wtf?) and how they are SO MUCH better today. They made more live performances, showed off their vocals, and got over the nerves they have to perform on the beginning of their journey. For LS is hard to do the same thing because of the image that hybe choose to promote them.
@@pessoinhacansada6900 exactly that's the problem they from the beginning promoted them in a very majestic way that now they are struggling to meet the expectations with such limited trainings
@@fearnot_jeans More than training i dont understand why Hybe doesn't adapt the song to what they have to work with, if we talk about the encore Yunjin sounded better in produce 48 and Sakura did fine for many years, it's like purchased a piano and expecting guitar sounds to come out of it
I’m the same age of Eunchae and while I do, do dances similar- I don’t think it’s appropriate for a company to make her to do it in front of millions of people cause it’s adults making these choreography’s for a minor and that’s weird
This is a very mature take~ thanks for sharing 💕
@@Natasha.Louisee Ah you noticed me 🫶🏽🫶🏽 I love your content so much!!! 🥹🥹
Just wanted to say I agree! I remember doing mildly questionable moves as a teen during dance classes BUT at worst; it was just gonna be at our dance recital. Which would be attended by people our age. Not millions of people on the internet, or the mostly male adult fan bases. I remember wanting to dress “sexy” as a teen but that’s what elders are for! To step in and protect you when you don’t realise you may be putting yourself into jeopardy. I always think of Hyuna, whose entire brand was based off sexiness when she debuted as a 14-15yr old!! Yes she’s now an adult but surely her image was shaped by being sexualised at such a young age.
I have done K-pop dance classes ( we have these in my city), there were times we danced to sensual choreographies such as Cake by Kard. However, the huge difference is the audience. While a class is being spectated by parents, friends,... of the class members ; in Hong Eunchae case, she is being watched by millions of people, including grown-people! HYBE is only good at managing BTS, other groups, they just mistreating them or just managing them terribly.
real but i think they're doing on purpose since le sserafim has a huge male fanbase... kinda gross but thats the industry for you
Serving facecard in thumbnail
thank you darling ❤💫
alwayssss
All the time
In every thumbnail ❤
She's definitely one of those God's favorites.
looooved their debut album but the whole sexualising of minors have put me off a lot and it got worse when smart came out
HYBE biting the curb 5k
@@Natasha.Louisee 😭😭💀
The HUGE amount of idiots defending it too 💀
Right like stop debuting minors if you're not gonna keep the dances appropriate💀
@@mahdireza5695Dont forget Cookie by Newjeans and the whole “It was just a CD” 💀
their first 2 albums were incredible, and then unforgiven dropped and all hell broke loose 😭
As much as i didn't like the title track for Antifragile the actual album was so good. True that unforgiven was the beginning of the end for me
@@Natasha.Louisee same actually, i like antifragile but not the same way others were acting like it was the best song of the year…still it’s kinda sad what’s happening to them and i think a lot of fans have unfortunately given up on them at this point
i agree 😭😭😭
same loved fearless and antifragile then unforgiven made me step away a bit then perfect night & easy solidified my dissatisfaction with concepts, direction, and sound. sadly unstanned them but hopefully in the future if they release good stuff i’ll re-stan
the only le sserafim is unforgiven lmao, but only the japanese version and mainly because of Ado... their other songs just dont hit for me, its not my type of music
I'm a stan but don't understand how can kfans defend the industry for making a minor dance to an inappropriate song but throw a tantrum when a 30yo idol dates someone like???
Omg this is so true
They're like "I don't care if the world burns down but if my husband/wife is dating someone or doing something I don't like personally, we got the problem here."
the part i find craziest in regard to minor members is how stans will infantilize and baby the maknae who is usually a minor but then when they get sexualized suddenly "they're basically an adult" ??? what is the logic
It’s funny because fans also slam companies for not protecting their idols from hate and scandal, yet when Source Music did, it’s "you’re stopping them from getting valid criticism." I’ve always said there is no consistency in K-pop. Fans will condemn an idol or company for one thing but then praise another despite the SAME thing.
Someone actually commented on my comment that support agency start to suing cyber bullying. They commented that agency suing people who write k*lling threat and SH will only make idol have weak mentality. Like....GURL ARE YOU SERIOUS, are you really saying that every artist even the minor one should just suck it up if they ever get SH comments online so they can have stronger mentality? They even mentioned that every group also get the same comments or even worse. Hey what you're writing is even worse, did you trying to say to normalize SH comments? They are nuts I tell you
Fr it's filled to the brim with a bunch of hypocrisy and cherry picking
I agree with what ur saying but I think that some fans don't rlly know the difference between constructive criticism and flat out hate, which is what's causing the hypocrisy I think lmao
it’s all of hybe’s fault. clearly they didn’t give them the proper training they needed for the type of music and performance that they give them. they keep debuting idols with little training experience and throw them to the wolves, which inevitably leads to cases such as lesserafim and illit getting shitted on for being “untalented”. there’s a reason why groups from the early generations didn’t have as many controversies for their singing abilities, because they all trained for 5 years, if not more, and it showed
Like 6 months as a group is nothing. You have groups like Red velvet, Monsta X etc. Who trained as a group for 2 to 3 years to accroding themselves with each members
Tbh all of their groups are like this. BTS also didnt have a lot of training time together as a whole group, Jimin also got only 6 months of training before being in the line up and had to watch the other members' vocal training sessions bc he didnt get any- which unfortunately lead to years of singing with improper technique that caused serious damage, which unfortunately shows :( I would say the only HYBE group thay got actually organized group training was TXT which had yeounjun be a trainee while BTS debuted. Other than that all of their groups didnt get proper training (not counting groups that were BOUGHT by HYBE after debuting). Vocals specially were NEVER important to Hybe but I feel like this is the first time it blew up in their face this badly.
Why is it always the company board members getting blamed?? None of these girls show a mental illness not physical illness to make them hinder through seeking a much better trainer than what hybe & somu provided. These girls are no longer 12 yrs old, they're now legal mentally capable enough to know what they're lacking in. How long has it been since they debuted?? Their weak vocals has always been pointed out but y'all love to give them excuses so they got too comfortable with showing the absolute bare minimum & look how they responded to actual valid criticisms, they acted sooo passive aggresive & that's what rubbed the whole situation wrong!! If they managed to accept it after being criticized during fearless era, then this whole vocal foasco about them would come to an end but its kpop. Y'all love to coddle kpop idols & always giving such bs excuses. Its not about the choreo nor the range of the song, its flat out that their vocals are sub par & non existent at best! What more excuses y'all gotta give them? Stop being so delusional & accept that having sub par talents will secure a long standing career.
@@cattosakamotto Well since they’re fully dependant on the type of trainers that HYBE brings into the company, that has a lot to do with it and since we’re noticing a pattern of their idols lacking in certain areas of skills, clearly the trainers being hired aren’t focusing on training them to be the best versions of themselves. added to the fact that HYBE clearly prioritises the team members visuals fitting with the chosen concept for said group, there’s a lack of care and consideration taken into the type of training they received and they’re expected to know how to execute whatever HYBE execs want them to perform (songs that are out of their vocal range, songs that require more stamina etc.) and they might’ve not been given that type of support in training prior to their groups formation
@@cattosakamotto y'all crazy for shaming these 16 yo girls bruh, they took their chance to live their dreams, don't blame them??
I'm sure they know they're lacking if they're defensive, but it won't fix itself in 6 months.
grow up
they set the bar too high with their first two albums so now people want them do deliver on the same level
It’s also partly because of how much content K-pop demands. If they released one solid mini album a year it could be more consistently high quality, but with 2-4 comebacks a year it’s just so much harder to ensure consistency (and this isn’t just lesserafim; twice are one of my ult groups but they put out so much stuff! I love it as a fan, but many releases just feel undercooked or like they don’t quite fit the concept or are clearly trend chasing - not specific to any group but I notice JYPE really milks so many comebacks a year, the girls and guys must be so exhausted :(
I stan them but they do have their flaws, not gonna lie. they do need some improvements and a stronger structure in my humble opinion.
this is what a mature fearnot looks like
Same
Yea that seems to be the problem, they have the strong brand image but very weak group structure. As in, if you look further than their performing power, they have quite a few weak spots that could be prevented by better training- which unforgiven is a common issue with all HYBE (not including bought after debut) groups
What changed after their debut album is that they lost a key member of their vocal line, many of the girls clearly were not intended to be taking vocally challenging parts and it shows
I always talk about this. If garam was still there then the encore stages and Coachella wouldn’t have been as bad. Because in a group of 6 there’s going to be members with strength and weakness that compliment each other but they clearly lost a vocal member and it shows
@@Natasha.Louisee Excatly! Garam was lead vocal together with Chaewon, while Yunjin was main. Kazuha was clearly intended to be the main rapper, which we see in Fearless, while Sakura and Eunchae sub-vocals and visuals. Garam's exit messed it up big time. Now they needed a third vocal ASAP. Their only opptions was Kazuha really, as the other two are worse. They quickly ditched her as a rapper and made her lead vocal from Unforgiven forward (as Antifragile was already pre-recorded prior to Garam leaving). Kazuha got way better than she was, but still, her lines are simply too challenging for her. You could see in Coachella, that she struggled simply due to the fact that she had too many lines, she could barely catch a breath. On the other hand, Eunchae and Sakura both get like 5-10 seconds of lines per song and they strugge even with that. Mind you, I'm a Sakura stan, I love her, but dear God, she has some real problems. I think after Garam, they should've just gotten a new girl, one who can actually sing. But now it's far too late.
Cmiiw, I have only seen one clip of Garam singing live with no backtrack (the one with her singing a line from sour grapes) and while she sounds amazing on the recording, she didn't seem to be a strong live singer either. Hybe/sm just never cared about vocals for this group and didn't think they would get this much criticism imo
@@kleinerfuchsipersonally I think eunchae is a better vocalist then kazuha. While kazuha doesn’t really seem comfortable singing at all, eunchae can has moments where she seems to actually be singing okay. I see kazuha as a dancer and rapper not a sub-vocalist. It also makes no sense for eunchae to have less lines then Sakura when Sakura is asking for the least amount of lines and eunchae and kazuha currently sing better then her.
As a minor, literally: get eunchae out of le serrafim 😭😭
as a minor I FULLY AGREE
Soon she is no longer a minor.
@@manofsesame3024 so? She still did these things when she’s a minor tho
I love le sserafim and their music but when i see Kazuha and Eunchae it feels like they literally just woke up and decided they wanted to be an idol without any prep.
Ofc they can habe the dream but they also need to put the work. There are times where kazuha is looking around waiting for the next step and eunchae voice is very very singing in the car.
I do, however, have a lot of hope for the groups future as they have, imo, one of the best leaders, Chaewon. I cant wait for their comeback. Im sure they will be back stronger than ever! ❤
the way kazuha was only trained for 3 months told me everything i need to know about hybe
@@aesserafim585Surely there were other trainees with more experience and higher level of skill because debuting someone who only had 3 months of training is insane! Not saying that she couldn’t do well but I think that too short a time to get ready for debut.
@@ignore_me_yeh she has the iconic appeal which is why she's by far one of the most popular members since debut. Im sure HYBE considered that heavily
@@ignore_me_yeh exactly. hybe is such a weird company
@@ignore_me_yeh They only debuted her because her being a ballerina would get people talking
3:22 and the fact that she is LITERALLY IN.THE.FRONT!! Like you CANNOT tell me that HYBE isn't sexualising Eunchae because they are
Smart and Fearless aren't the only songs that makes me unconfortable regarding Eunchae. I mean... Maybe Impurities isn't about sex, but it can be interpreted this way and, personnally seeing Eunchae performing this song always makes me a little bit unconfortable, same with the outfits for no-return. Like bro, this is LITTERAL lingerie !! In each comeback, there's a problem with the minors and at this point I don't think it is a coincidence and I don't find it funny. If you want to make a group with a kinda sexy concept, then PUT ADULTS IN IT, it is not that hard to do !
this. it’s been inappropriate since debut.
Impurities is literally a song about magic and flaws coming from a dark place and also being a source of strength?????
@@viridianli5669 girl ain't no way you're gonna act like the lyrics weren't subtle lmao
@@Yoongi10269 no one is acting like anything, “Want it more like a witch
Show you the real me, the light growing dark red” it literally talks about witchy powers and constantly mentions them showing their real selfs “*Covered in scars that are hard opaque
So natural, beautiful*” it’s obviously about powers and uses it to symbolize flaws being both a strength and someone’s darkness, literally STOP WATCHING PORN!!!
@@Yoongi10269 literally from the artist themselfs “We're pursuing to be antifragile. It's not that we're really fearless [the title of their first EP], like we're not scared of anything. But we pursue to be fearless people. I hope that our fans, whenever they face fears or adversities or bump into a wall, I hope they listen to our music and gain strength through these messages." Now onto lyrics “*Covered in scars that are hard opaque
So natural, beautiful*” but sure it’s about sex and not flaws being both strength and a power, you’re saying subtle when that’s how you interpreted but the English lyrics really look like someone talking about flaws in genius it EVEN SAYS “The line “show you my impurities” suggests a willingness to reveal one's flaws and imperfections to a loved one.” Almost anything can be interpreted as sexual nowadays, someone could punch a wall and people would sexualize it. The whole TRACK was quite literally about strength and empowerment. You guys interpreting it weirdly doesn’t change the actual meaning of the song at all. stop watching 🌽.
One of the reason of this hate train might be how fearnots were literally talking about how yunjin is a trained opera singer when in reality she only performed in a high school musical and when she could not live up to those expectations that were set up for her they started going after her for EVERYTHING
REALL. I'm a fearnot but I won't lie, a bunch of fearnots were setting her up. Sure she did a few opera things or whatever but she's not trained. I hope my girl is okay.
THANK YOU FOR THE CHOREOGRAPHY CONVERSATION, sexualising and romanticising children is in general such a prevalent practice at Hybe but with Le Sseraphim it has been the most "in-your-face" as possible, and the amount of people DEFENDING IT sends me spiraling
people just use le serrafim as a punching bag for anything they do even if its small
I hate when people use that term like oh this "K-Pop group is a punching bag" no... not really . lesserafim deserves some of the hate and criticism that they got, they went a long time without having to know how to sing live, and when they had to
Sing live, they messed up, and then Sakura went online and tried to play the victim card and saying "we tried our best, and if that was your best at Coachella, then you shouldn't be a K-pop idol. You can only edit and autotune your voice for so long until the truth comes out.
Did you not watch the video or did you just come here to complain????
@@OGseoulitethey aren't wrong tho? lsf has been hated on recently for such stupid things
@@OGseoulite ngl Le Sserafim was just used as a punching bag all the time nowadays.
@@Nick-xe4yg i agree with everything but to say they deserve hate nah thats way too far
regarding the smart choreography, i feel like the older members should be looking out for eunchae in cases like that right? of course we don't know what goes on behind the scenes but me personally if one of my members whose a minor had to do choreo like that i feel like i would have something to say about it. not saying the other members were all for it or anything just a genuine question
I wonder this too..... surely the older members must feel weird about it too
Le sserafim’s collab with ado for their Japanese version of “unforgiven” was what made me discover them and become an absolute kpop stan (because before that I would just casually listen to stray kids and xdinaty heroes without even bothering to learn the members’ names), I stan le sserafim to this day and I 100% agree with everything that had been said in this video!! I am a year younger than Eunchae and when “smart” mv came out I got kinda worried about her because if I were in her situation, that choreography would make me really really uncomfortable because of obviously being a minor and I feel like she didn’t have much to say about it (or she didn’t care, dunno, just saying what it was like from my perspective). About the church thing: I am a Christian and while people can feel offended, I personally don’t see any issue since that church is being regularly rented for concerts, shooting movies and etc AND it was a protestant church so there was no tabernacle there. If they would be dancing in front of a tabernacle I would stop for a second and google if this is even allowed since tabernacle is where the Eucharist is stored.
I grew up as Christian, with family history in both Lutheran and Orthodox churches, and what bothered me about this discourse was how people painted Christians to be a monolith. Yes, some Christian denominations and groups might find the MV location offensive, but they can't dictate to other Christians how they should feel about it. The church in question clearly felt fine about it, and I haven't seen any outrage from religious groups in SK itself either.
I was kind of reminded of Pussy Riot, a Russian feminist group that was arrested for performing as protest in an Orthodox church, and responses to it. Obviously LS shooting a commercial music video in a church is different, but where is the line?
Bro but Ado be slapping so hard on everything she's featured in.
I'm Christian too and here are some things that were weird and maybe offensive to some:
- half-naked sexy dancing. You wouldn't even be allowed into most European churches dressed like that, they would ask you to cover yourself. The super sexual dancing in a church is also quite questionable.
- Location: why was this even shot in a church? Nothing about the lyrics or music suggest anything like that. There have been some really beautiful videos done in a church, so I'm not against it. It's just why the Easy video with that clothes and overtly sexual dance? The video could have been shot in a warehouse, a street or in a park, why did it need to be in a church of all places?
- cross with band logo: they took the cross and turned it into a neon sign with the band logo on it, now that is a complete no-go!
- Eunchae is wearing devil's horns on her head. Why??
@@Winnangh its because there is nothing sincere about stan outrage. They dont actually care about what you have to say if it isnt in line with what they WANT you to. I stopped taking it seriously years ago.
@kleinerfuchsi "the abomination that causes desolation" - Daniel 11:31, Mathew 24:15
LS is not a perfect group, but I love them 🧚🏻♀️
Me too!
Same
Of course no group is, but they are at least expected to show the bare minimum as a group, let alone a top tier girl group from Hybe.
I feel like garam was definitely an asset to LESSERAFIM vocally.
The way that Yunjin was in a TikTok video with Laufey I think and in Laufey’s comments was just a bunch of people saying “get away quick Laufey” or “she’ll taint you with bad vocals” like it’s fucking ridiculous
That’s actually funny tho
@@tonystonem9614 It’s not because stans cannot dictate who hangs out with who
What scares me a lot, that you sometimes don't know that some members of groups are minors if you are not actively looking at their profiles or something. I literally didn't know for a long time, that LS has minors because their styling, make-up and dancing makes them look so much older... (maybe except for their debut but I never really watched their mv's so...) there are groups where you can see that they have some members who are minors (like for ex. Illit's Wonhee because she literally looks like a child), but seeing how old people are got extremely hard... not only in kpop... I mean, I am still getting asked for my ID because I am older than I look at it can be the other way round...
I love when I meet another Blue Flame enthusiast. When I tell you that was the only song I listened to for weeks. I was always singing it. I know whole parts of that song and I don’t even speak Korean. I never really listened to music but Blue Flame got me and til this day it’s my favorite song.
I don’t know why it has me but it does 😂
Eunchae would fit in better on Newjeans or Illit. Then with some more experienced idol, preferably that can sing and dance, the entire Leserafim concept would not be so inappropriate. But hey as an Orthodox Christian I can tell you Leserafim and the concept mastermind behind them thats the CEO of Hybe are not angels. They are rude and arrogant.
the way she is always serving in her thumbnails 😭😭😭
this might be absolutely irrelevant to the topic of this video but I honestly feel like with le sserafims concept they really should be writing or at least pitching in a little bit more with the writing, producing and composing of their songs like there concept is about their personal life and journey not to mention that some of the songs that they have written/ helped with are some of their best works some examples: all of Yunjin solos were written by herself, Yunjin and kkura helped write good parts, I'm not sure but I did here that Eunchae wrote we got so much, and I believe that Yunjin helped write flash forward, yunjin also helped write blue flame, yunjin helped write impurities, she helped write no celestial, she also helped with Between you, me and the lamppost, and Eve, Psyche & the Bluebeard’s wife ( also I'm not saying that is the girls fault that they aren't doing this)
4/5 lesserafim members actually have credits on swan song with personal references being included in the song, so to me it would have been a perfect title track. I get that easy was the literal embodiment of the concept, but when they already had many elegant songs I think they easily could have had swan song as the title track. It also would have allowed them to show more of their talent in singing because swan song is more in the members range and the choreography was easier. The least they could have done is make a MV to promote swan song more. The members do a lot of work on their b-sides but no one knows because it’s a b-side, it’s really sad seeing that happen.
I dont think ppl didn't consider Le sserafim as a threat before Perfect Night, PN is really not an impactful release from them. Since their debut and the release of mega-hit ANTIFRAGILE Le SSerafim have been talked about and considered as one of the Big Three of their generation alongside IVE and Aespa ( this was before Nujeans debut ). The idea that PERFECT NIGHT made people consider them as threat is seriously misguided
I'm more of a Chaewon stan more than a fearnot but I like their songs. The problem here is hybe and their management. Garam situation, putting minors in this group having a concept which doesn't suit them, and getting them too soon for Coachella. Even advertising them as the goats when they struggle with performances knowing how harsh stans are. But as always people harass the members of a GG instead of hold accountable the people in charge. Nothing that happened with this group allows people to harass the members.
It was also how they managed the coachella performance. most groups lower the intensity of the choreography, lesserafim had the exact same dance moves, and most of the time they didn’t stop when singing harder parts.
I love lesserafim, the things they are doing like the dance moves and their vocals need work, but the amount of hate they are getting is crazy I don’t think they deserve it
i still don't understand the hate for yunjin it's just so much
people are always really fucking weird toward english-speaking idols
Honestly peoples shit a lot on Sakura for not being good but she did okay for years before that, they hired Izone most popular member and dont take what she can do into account and try to force their thing onto her, if you take someone give her something she can do. Feel insane how she sounded better in her graduation concert solo songs compared to LSF encore
As for the whole minor issue, my unpopular opinion is if they wanted the concept that le sserafim has, eunchae should have never made the group. its unfair and wrong that she has to dance sexually just bc the other girls are adults. and if the other girls want to do this concept, its unfair to do something they don't want bc of one member who is a minor. i don't get why they debut groups with large age gaps between members. Eunchae shouldn't have been in the group, her age and the groups concept is not compatible and just inappropriate.
I think HYBE’s whole concept as a company is that their idols can do any and every concept and pull it off. For BTS and Enphyen, it works for them but for LSFRM, I feel like they didn’t have the versatility yet and Fearless was what your typical idol group would give and it worked for them because that’s their skill set. Everything after the debut was out of all the girls comfort zone and was pretty much foreign to them and you can tell
Bts litteraly had time. Before in 2nd generation and 3rd generation they had time to be rookies. They debuted perfectly but had time to grow. Now their debut are not so perfect, and we expect them to have a first win.
It did work well for BTS but like the other comment said they had a whole bunch of time. They weren't a hit as soon as they debuted. If they debuted now like they debuted before, then they would just be swept up because of how much more competitive the industry is.
Right and BTS were already being dragged to absolute filth since their debut lol if they debuted today it would be absolutely brutal. Some of the most important things abt BTS that HYBE cant understand was their growth OVER THE YEARS, the involvement of the members in the music and the slow but steady maturing of their music. HYBE wants the numbers BTS got after 7 years in a debut while still not improving their training style so ofc they're setting their groups up for failure.
I personally never saw the barcardi move as sexual since it isnt twerking (which i dont think is inherently sexual, however has become sexual, kind of like belly dancing) I would say it is on par with umlando which also isnt sexual, this is my unique experience and view and i think alot of people in my country view it similarly, however i can also see how it can be percieved as a bit sexual.
Now the drop it like its hot with the legs open facing the front is 100% sexual, and hybe is definitely catering towards sexual deviants, it could have been changed to the same move but a diagonal facing, arabesque (the back leg straight) and their arms in standard arabesque position, and the leg swings around to the front or bends back into a squatted position and they stand back up normally, which isn't sexual.
Sexual deviants will find anything children do sexual, however this was deliberate on hybes side.
Literally if it was only the first move alone i would be fine. i'd side eye a little but that second move is just ridiculous
African moves aren't even sexy or whatever is literally a part of the body, but the West made it sensual and yk the rest with twerk
@@Natasha.Louisee I dont know who in their right mind approved that, who did the choreography but their hard drives 100000% need to be checked
I will say something with love. If we ignore mistakes of everyone the world not will be a better place. I love some of their songs. But why a group with limited skills get so much attention when we have so many skilled groups? This is totally unfair.Why their company doesn't work to make them better.?A big company like Hybe has a great staff not only to choose idols to debut but and coaches. I thought most of their problems are company 's fault but sometimes when i read the post of Sakura i think that they don't care about their fans. I am marketer and actress and i would tell you so many methods to make them better but is loosing time for them.
For real ! And it's not bad to say it, Lesserafim were unprepared!
@@fearnot_jeans I love fans that are considering their group problems or things to improve. Improvement is the key to make a group has duration.
I am technical still a minor and I agree that its wierd asf
I knew you'd get it 💐
same here
@@Natasha.Louisee ofc it always Icks me out aswell
your thumbnails are iconic never change
I thought it was funny how HYBE promoted Le sseraifim as this fearless, industry changer group then goes out there way to drop a song like smart. Their debut releases were pretty good but I hope HYBE doesn't become too greedy and start hopping on trends just so the songs can become mainstream.
I’ll keep it real a portion of the lesserafim hate has to do with their fans. Fearnots were and still are constantly fighting with kpop gg fandoms about how talented and better the members are compared to other groups even though that usually is not the case which sets lesserafim up for harassment from fans of other groups who were already mad.
For example, Fearnots were talking smack to every fandom who questioned the girls’ skills. They said, “Well at least they are going to coachella, they’ll show you how talented they are there.” When the videos came out of their lacklustre performance stans of the groups who Fearnots previously “attacked” came full force to laugh at lesserafim. Not because they hate the members, but because kpop fans always take out annoyance for the fandom on the idol.
I could be biased here cause I’m a tokki (Newjeans fan) but when it comes to minors in kpop and the weird shit their company does, I’m experienced. I was there during the cookie situation and I remember not caring much about it since I was 16 so why would it creep me out. Now as an 18 year old I definitely can not listen to the song anymore. Unfortunately I don’t think I can unstan Newjeans which is where I sympathize with Fearnots. I’ll always call out ADOR if I feel like anything is weird in their content, but I love the actual members and they make good songs, so unstanning is something I just wouldn’t do. But I also understand why people are not comfortable with groups like lesserafim and Newjeans and I do not blame them for it being a turn off completely. Especially if you have other groups you are already more interested in.
(Sorry for yapping🫣, love your videos btw)
I didnt even know le sserafim had minors... I watched so many reels of smart's dance WHICH ONES R MINORS???? HOW MANY TIMES DID I WATCH THEM SHAKE ASS??? I actually feel like throwing up......... this is UNREAL wtf
Just Eunchae I think she has bangs with long hair right now?
You hit every single mark with this video! I used to ult them I LOVED them and their music as a group until the chaotic mess that happened with Coachella and what followed afterwards.
They really did have a very brutal fall to the bottom, I noticed even when I was a fan, some of the delulu fans will try to manipulate SO HARD 😭
Like what you said about the sexualization of minors, some of the fans will try to convince you that Eunchae doing a dance like Smart isn't incredibly inappropriate for her to be doing 😭
Even I was convinced they were right until I thought about it without the heavy bias. I still listen to their music occasionally but I defiantly do not ult them anymore 😭
I feel bad for them in a way, and I hope they can redeem themselves but idk if they can tbh.
The unfortunate fact is that the succes they got as a group relied almost entirely on their IMAGE, not on the members. If we look at it from afar, ANY idol could be a part of this group and it wouldn't change much, aside from the ex IZONE members' success and maybe the badass western member that is yujin. With this shitshow, they'll have to kinda prove that they deserve their spot as le sserafim, not by having badass concepts, but by showing the MEMBERS' strength. Which they DO have, but it'll take a lot of training for them to fit the fearless, antifragile le sserafim.
Also yeah, a lot of the hate they're getting is unfortunately a direct result of fearnots being unhinged lmao
They have Yunjin and Chaewon as their strongest vocalists but also choose songs to be sang in the range they are uncomfortable with. If there is any biggest hater of them. It's their own production team.
when i see these kinds of videos im always reminded how netizens hate their idols to death (sulli for example). i hope that le sserafim can improve in the future and get over the hate
Write this somewhere where it applies...
its kinda sad that they were so big and then they just kept falling, losing popularity and credibility over time due to the continuous amount of bad decisions that both hybe and the girls themselves kept making. i dont stan them anymore but i hope they stop getting so much hate (and improve eventually), they do deserve some criticism but netizens are getting out of control now
Hate the game, not the player. The members are funny kind and caring. Yes, they've made some minor mistakes (only if you're walking on egg shells). What group hasn't. Their content is top-notch. I Stan them yes for their chemistry, performance, content, and music. Mainly because they're entertaining. I think the whole Ador Hybe thing really pushed the hate to extreme.
Of all the Le Sserafim criticism them performing in a church has always baffled me as the church is a well-known filming and performing location, Helena by MCR's mv was filmed there. While I do agree with a lot of the other criticism but not the blatant hate that some people put towards the girls
yup! they should be mad at whoever owns the church for allowing that if anything, not le sserafim
Off topic but I love how Nat serves face in her thumbnails like okay, cvnt!
Kind of off topic but you are so so pretty 😭❤
Thank you so much 🎀❤
I just wish idols had more control over the ways they are portrayed in general, it’s absolutely disgusting that companies make minors dance in such ways, but I also don’t like how as soon as an idol turns 18 everything is magically fine and who cares. Like, if they WANT to do those things, then yes, they’re legally adults capable of making their own decisions and they should be allowed to do so. But I honestly don’t believe many idols can just voice their opinion like that and change the concept that the company spent money on, so on that note they still are young girls (or boys) who shouldn’t be forced to act in ways they don’t want to (which applies to any age group really). Ofc we don’t know what those idols think and we can’t do much about it I guess :/
OMG LOVE THE THUMBNAILLLL AHAHA MOTHERRR
not a le sserafim stan but im pretty sure the eunchae mocking students thing was confirmed to be clipped maliciously/out of context
i genuinely hope the girls can make a comeback after the hate train ❤
I love your delivery of, "So I don't want to hear it in the comments for how it's 'normal' and I'm weird for pointing it out. Shut up!!"
Literally the fastest way to get banned from my comment section is to try and justify minors being sexualised by their company 😂
I remember reading some comments before that hybe only get talented idols because they don't want to train them (this was during the early years of hybe) well, that didn't age well and all of a sudden the mighty walls started to show cracks. I honestly wouldn't blame the idols since I don't fully know how hybe works - do they just let idols do what they want, etc.. but yeah. Also, I feel like they sometimes try to thrive in negative publicity, like the eyekon issue or the tws and enhypen one, it's arguable ofc. anyways, at the end of the day, idols will be the most affected, mentally
I feel like their idols are the ones with the most POTENTIAL, which hybe confuses with already refined talent and are like "ok so we'll give u a couple of months to train and you'll be good to go!" Which may work short term but long term turns into... This. As much as I hate SM the reason they're the top 3 of kpop is their immaculate training system. Hybe thinks having a mildly talented, very pretty and charismatic idol is enough to carry a whole group. They were getting arrogant imo. Too focused on the numbers their groups were getting and not the groups themselves.
Wait every time I blink you have a new video 😭😭
nobody can stop me
@@Natasha.Louiseenaurrr😭
I find deferences in personal music taste fascinating. I’ve watched a couple of your videos so I know that you love Ive’s music so much that they’re your ult group. I personally casually follow them I do like their music and tune in to their comebacks but they haven’t clicked with me in a way that would make me want to stan them though. While in contrast I started stanning Le Sserafim with Antifragile something about their just clicked with me for some reason. But my enjoyment of their music started dwindling with Unforgiven to the point that the Easy ep is probably my most disappointing comeback this year. I still like the girls and think all the hate they’ve been getting has been taken too far. But also with everything thats happened recently I’ve found it hard to support them and I’m not really sure how to feel about them so I’ve just been keeping my distance.
Your videos are great btw!!! ❤
no girl like fr blue flame is soooo underrated
As a fearnot, I agree so much! I love the girls but hate SouMu. The concept honestly doesn't fit the girls besides possibly Yunjin and Chaewon and MAYBE Kazuha. But for how much they were hyping up Sakura predebut as the face of the group then gave her a concept that she doesn't fit her is so ironic. Not to mention that few of their songs are actually in the girls' vocal ranges. A retro/cute concept like when they performed HOPE would actually be so good, they all suit it I think (but with 1800-Hot-n-Fun I doubt they'll be doing this concept anytime soon).
I'm an old k-pop fan. Minors in groups has always been weird to me.
It's weirder seeing people my age always picking the youngest of the group as their bias... Very telling.
Seriously not surprised to see fans defend sexualisation 😭 it’s like they don’t want minors to be protected whatsoever.
Out of topic but you’re so pretty like a fairy princess. I can’t even describe your beauty 🤍🤍🤍
I heard people say the church where they shot their music video wasn't a real church and just a set, and that many other artists also use that same set to film their music videos. But I can also see where this may be offensive because churches are sacred places to many religions.
I agree, but that’s not the only time Le Sserafim has used Christianity as an “aesthetic”. Like when Sakura was wearing a crown of thorns for a concept photo. No hate to Sakura or the girls, their management is to blame for that
@@MODNAR67 Yeah i blame the stylist in these cases
I’d argue that Le Sserafim aren’t the most hated idols. They still get a lot of support. Perfect Night, Easy, and Smart did really well on the charts. If we want to talk about hated groups, Itzy can’t put out anything without it being torn to shreds by the public. And they don’t get the same levels of success these days are Le Sserafim do (despite how much people seemingly dislike them). Also, Wonyoung of IVE can’t even breathe without people attacking her.
When it comes to Le Sserafim, I see their hate train coming from a few different places. The first is obviously the varying opinions on their concept, as it is derived from Christianity. Many disliked it from the get-go and it only worsened with Unforgiven and Smart. While I personally think that anyways religion that has impact beyond the scope of its followers (which is basically every religion) should rightfully be open to constructive discussion both verbally and in media use, there is a line where you have to remain respectful. That is, unless your message is hating the religion, then I guess respect isn’t something you’re considering. In Le Sserafim’s case, they’re obviously just using Christianity as inspiration for their concept and aren’t trying to make an entire think piece on whether on it. So, they can’t be disrespecting Christians by dancing in a church if they want to continue using Christianity as the core of their concept.
The second has to do with their vocals. Yunjin’s classical training is obviously amazing and you can’t ignore how impressive she is within that style. But when it comes to pop vocals, the group is objectively weaker in that regard. I think this is a symptom of a bigger problem. HYBE stans have a big us-vs-them mentality. This derives a lot from how HYBE artists have a bigger international reach than most groups (aside from Blackpink and Stray Kids). Many stans of HYBE groups believe that their faves are bigger than KPop and shouldn’t be discussed within the context of the industry. This makes other stans mad and actively look for reasons to hate these HYBE groups. Since HYBE is weak vocally across the board, Le Sserafim’s vocal shortcomings are low hanging fruit to attack. And granted, this kind of hate is common for all HYBE groups. Not just Le Sserafim.
But honestly, I don’t think anything else they find themselves under fire for are unique to just Le Sserafim. Plenty of things they get hated for are also thrown at their peers. Itzy, IVE, Lapillus, NewJeans, Illit, Class:y, etc. have all been criticized for “questionable” (to put it lightly) choreographies given to minors.
Tons of remixes? That’s a common practice these days. Heck, that’s ALWAYS been common. But the number being pumped out has increased drastically to keep up with the demand from the streaming era. And no, (G)I-DLE did not say “I want that remix-sy no Sserafim”. The lyrics of “I Want” go, “I want that oui, merci, no, c’est la vie”.
Yunjin ordering Starbucks? Idols both male, female, groups, and soloists have been called out for purchasing from companies/vendors that are currently being condemned for potentially funding Jen Aside (I think the accusations against certain companies have been debated, but I’m not 100% sure, so I’m saying potentially in case I’m wrong).
Being cringey? Again, Wonyoung couldn’t eat a strawberry in peace without being told she needed to end things. Her, Yuna, and Eunchae are like the 4th gen pick-me squad where they can’t do anything without being dogpiled by the internet. There’s a reason why encores “aren’t fun” anymore. Idols are afraid that saying/doing the wrong thing will bring hate to themselves and their group. So, standing still and not doing much is the only way to avoid that.
So yeah, I personally think on the group’s concept and HYBE’s mishandling of Garam’s false accusations are the only thing unique to the group’s hate train. Even their vocal technique being criticized is something seen pretty widely amongst 4th and 5th gen groups (especially from HYBE). Otherwise, they’re still extremely successful (especially since they possess two former Iz*one members) and are still able to compete with their 4th gen peers. Whether or not they’ll survive the Fourth Year Fever is another story. We’ve already seen it claim Itzy. And StayC look like they might be in trouble as well. While most of the backlash the group gets is unjustified (and plenty of it deserves to be targets at their fans, their company, and their team including management, stylists, producers, directors, choreographers, etc.), they still shouldn’t be shielded from criticism. Unfortunately, it’s very rare that you find those voicing actual criticism and not just adding more fuel to the fire since engaging in sensationalism is one of the easiest ways to garner clout.
*TLDR: I don’t think Le Sserafim is any more hated than some of their peers, especially Itzy and Wonyoung. Plus, they have the success to outweigh the hate. That doesn’t mean the hate doesn’t exist and I’m not justifying it. I’m just saying that it has yet to impact their actual success, charting, and monetary standings.*
Anyways, great vid! I really enjoyed hearing a new voice contribute to this dialogue! ❤️
i'm one year older than eunchae and honestly its so weird to watch her dancing that way on stage
if she was in a party with her family and/or friends thats on her but If she's dancing on a stage to thousands of people with a choreo that was created by an adult then its kinda weird
(english is not my first language so sorry if its not well written)
This whole hate wagon
Is just childish
I’m not rlly into kpop that much anymore but I’m surprised this is still going
Like I don’t believe one bit all these kpop fans care about vocals 😂
I mean we already have examples of what happen with celebrities debuting as singers really young - Justin Bieber, Britney Spears, Justin Timberlake, Usher and so on. Ofc this is the western industry but music industry as a whole is the same when it comes to exploitation. I won't be surprised if one of the minors within the Kpop industry end up like one of these names - severely depressed, exhausted, act violently, etc. The pressure is a lot and let's remember that they are trainees before that which further the issues.
ep&bw remixes make me mad don't know why
So I know that this video is 6 days old, but I just watched it and I just wanted to express on the topic of minors because I myself am a minor. Personally, I love listening to music such as KIOF (just wait), and even learn some of their choreographies. But the only places I perform these choreographies is in my room because I don't feel comfortable. I would feel so bad being forced to do those choreographies on stage where there can potentially be creeps watching me. ( I don't know if you saw that one clip of that one male fan that was trying to take a picture under Mina's skirt even though she just returned from hiatus). Also on the clothes, I wear like shorts, but one time my shorts were too short for me and I didn't realize it, but I walked around the entire school with a hoodie around my back covering myself. I feel sorry for Eunchae and I hope that she heals.
Girl i got you. Blue Flame is that song and they never got close of that level of perfection again.
I personally found very hard fo connect with them ever since Garam was removed from the group and the fact that they peaked on their debut wasn't helping as well. Plus i don't feel "safe" stanning a group that is under fire so often for stupid reasons that their company could easily handle if they did their job properly. Like, why put your maknae in that situation? Why there's no soundcheck for their Coachella so they can prevent that situation? Why give them a song that's clearly out of their vocal range and on top of that make the choreo super challenging? Why? Such easy solutions to all their problems yet they keep running into weird situations.
Ok but all of this happened months ago. People need to stop holding grudges and get over it
Eunchae was 18 in korean age when it was released tho… and shes turning 18 in ”normal” age counting😭🙏
No, kpop stans confuse me. They are like
Kpop stants when an idol with no vocals:🤬🤬
Kpop stans when idols that can't dance:🤬🤬
Kpop stands when idols are adults:🤬🤬
Kpop stans idols when they're minors:🤬🤬
Kpop stans when their idols has visual, can sing, can dance:🤬🤬
Kpop stans when an Idol doesn't have visual:🤬🤬
Kpop stans when an idol:🤬🤬
Justice for my girl Garam
One of the best Girlgroups of the 4th Generation and I will die on this hill.
Hey girl, I actually really love the way you share your opinions and how you make it easier for us to understand your prespective! And I was just wondering since the way you speak is very clear, I wanna hear your opinion about kpop fans getting triggered by the most simple things/comments ever and how you think we should respond to them. Btw girl you are extremely gorgeous❤
I used to stan lesserafim like hardcore, but over time the company sexualizing Eunchae really turned me off from the group. Then overtime I stopped stanning all groups under the company because they keep doing it to other minors. I still love the members but I feel I can’t support the girls without also indirectly supporting the companies acts. I express my frustrations with the companies along with others but they just don’t seem to care. I think having Eunchae do the smart dance was the worst choice on the companies part, it seems more people are serious when it comes to protecting Eunchae.
I literally did the same ..
I kinda stopped stanning them when I saw the floor thrusting movements in the trailer…. 😬
@@cranburrey I became a fan during antifragile, I didn’t like fearless so I didn’t watch anything to do with it and found out a bit after of what the dance entailed. Also I’m not on Twitter so I’m not always up to date on groups. But it’s inappropriate especially at the time it was 2 minors.
I just found your channel and I'm loving it!
btw your accent is soo good
Omg yay i'm glad u found me. Even more glad you like it 💖
help samee
6:38 I swear this girl always eats. You give really good commentary and I love you for that.
I don’t know much but this 5:01 exact point is what I heard too and I just laughed like girl bfr! I think people were unnecessarily hating on her but she did sound arrogant with that statement.
7:34 also this point I’d like to say that when new jeans debuted with ‘attention’, one of the members was wearing that red bandana top and it cringed me out because looking at her I knew she’s a minor.
I personally stan Lesserafi because i like their music and i genuinely love the bond that the girls have wit each other...BUT YEAH WTF HAPPENED WITH EASY?? I like the "intro" Good bones and We got so much were so good imo. I just dont like smart at all. I like to quote the chorus sometimes just for fun but other than that i dont like it. Ive also been considering unstanning the group because altho i am a big fan of their dynamic and they make me happy, their music since easy has been lacking.
This is coming from someone who adored the group up until this point and now i just dont really vibe with what hybe are doing to the members. I mostly listen to Yunjin's solo work because its genuinely more my style. Ive never been an album buyer mainly because im trying to be a responsible adult. I only stream their music on spoitfy and watch their reality shows on youtube and thats about it.
But it genuinely made me so sad to see how hybe and other people are treating lesserafim. Though i understand the criticism of them not being the best vocals but i think they are alright and all the hate towards their vocals genuinely makes me wanna defend it tho i know its not the best. So thats why i stay away from Fearnot twt lol.
Anyway thanks for reading yall!
I feel like the Garam scandal defo got le sserafim got some mentions ( plus abit of a head start ) and generated abit of waves so-
Regardless of what's being said in this video, it's so funny to me that you look like an angel and then all of the sudden you're like "fucking look, use your eyes man" 💀😂 I love it
Le sserafim was meant to debut with the ‘fearless’ and ‘strong’ type of persona that they honestly weren’t able to keep up and hybe kept pushing saying that they could!! And pushed their sound for the group so much, most of them couldn’t even sound good with their songs and with easy it showed, they’re talented but I wish hybe gave them something else that suited them, starting with unforgiven then easy 😭
I've heard that LeSserafim started with a sort of "model off-duty" look and complimenting sound, but in they more recent releases they have a more rebellious attitude and weare more cool casual fashion like demin and distressed pieces.
ILYSM!! LE SSERAFIM, is one of my ults and I'm so glad your commentary was without genuine hate and back-handed statements, I would also like to mention that Yunjin has apologized numerous times for the St*rbucks drink incident but HYBE kept deleting her posts in the apps, she also showed support through live and such and posting watermelons after the incident! (*ALSO! SUBSCRIBED*
The most disappointing aspect of their group is the lack of attention towards important basics and skills when it comes to vocals. It is literally one of the reasons someone will listen or follow your group. Now if you cannot deliver properly, then there should be room and grace for improvement. In LSF's case, it seems like that isn't the case. They focused heavily on performing and left out literally proper vocals. What's more disappointing are some of the fans who will gaslight and label anyone a hater if you had the same type of criticism for their vocal skills. With regards to the minors in HYBE, I fully agree but personally though, I'm not one to like any kind of overly sexual dance regardless of age. Why? It's because most fans wait for a certain age and then justify that it's alright for anyone to dance that way because they're old enough. I watched the Smart MV at least once, and I'll never do so again. Call me a prude or whatever, but I didn't switch to listening to Kpop from many Western artists just to find the same amount of sexualization. Then again, this might just turn me off from the entire genre itself. Unfortunately, LSF has opened my eyes towards that reality. I do hope the best for the girls and that their company helps them improve vocally and gives them better songs. Imo, Perfect Night and Antifragile stand as their best songs to date.
fearnot here i didn't know le sserafim were getting this much hate bc i've been away from twt for a while and when i do get on i'm focused on kep1er really so i really appreciate you making this video i agree with you that hybe is shit when it comes to debuting minors and not protecting them i was there from debut so i literally watched garam's bullying scandal in real time i thought they were actually protecting her but they disappointed me by kicking her out when they literally had proof of her innocence and on top of that some of the choreo for some songs isn't appropriate for eunchae i can excuse some dance moves that are mild but dropping to the ground and spreading your legs um we still have a minor in the group hybe chill please i have nothing to say about the girls themselves like this bc all or most problems i have come from hybe/somu i will say tho i saw the hate train coming bc i stanned bts in the past and still stan txt hybe groups getting hate doesn't surprise me anymore i just feel bad for the girls right now
A kep1ian?
literally agreed on all your points. i think hybe focuses way too much on their perfect choreography over vocals. like besides new jeans i haven't been able to see consistent decent vocals. like yeah i get ppl are upset from their lacking vocal skills but they should be mad at hybe rather than the girls bc hybe doesn't really train their idols. i don't really like hybe's music style anyways. i literally mainly listen to 1st-3rd gen groups since 4th-5th gen is not my style
8:36 Ok, I get it. But I think it’s not only about minors, but about sexualizing idols overall. I don’t think that a person being 18 makes them be more mature and have a new “mind” compared to a person who is just one year younger. I get that, legally, one is an adult and the other one is a minor, but people should realise that being sexualized isn’t good either at all for people who just became adults (and can’t decide if they want to be sexualized or not). I’m 18, and I personally think I’m not prepared to be an adult yet, I’m not ready and I still feel I’m a child and that I need to learn and be way more mature to actually become an adult.
yeah as someone who just turned 18 its like dude there's no difference except that you are "legal". like the fact that I could legally have an onlyfans right now is disturbing, my brain is nowhere near developed enough to make that decision 😭
Tbh Sakura is one of hybe’s most profitable idols. She is probably the reason why this group is as popular as it is in Japan Sakura probably made them 10s of millions bc of her fame in Japan and yet they can’t give her the curtsy of good vocal lessons and freeing her schedule to do them. this is a hybe issue with amount of groups they debut with lacking vocals.
@2:47 - yeah it does look underwear; isn't Itzy's Ryujin currently having a similar controversy? It's just odd that nobody notices before a performer goes on stage like that, or do they notice and its to get attention . . . I don't know. Let's just hope it doesn't catch on as a fashion trend.
Honestly, I felt pretty neutral abt Le Sserafiim but hearning their coachella performance did make me feel like some other artist (not specifically kpop) should have performed in their place :'D
For me the only actually good title track that Le sserafim released so far was "antifragile", but they have some decent b-sides ngl
But the main reason i like them is that they are really entertaining when doing variety shows, so yeah i'm not in it for the music for this group, Hybe seems to want to maintain this trendy fashion icon image about the group, but doesn't care about giving them good music as much.
i really like those girls as people and as a group, THANK YOU for pointing out the sexualization because it genuinely makes me queasy like what the hell were they thinking… may we have another antifragile/blue flame? i don’t understand why they’re playing with the grey area of eunchae being 17 that’s still a minor… protect that girl pleaseeee. i’m thankful comments are off. i do deeply miss supporting those girls tho because i really adore them as people
You're too real with your reasons!
I Subscribed.
I'm surprised you didn't mention that even since predebut leserra already invites ire from people because they replaced GFriend in Source Music. And then the Garam thing hit them. Their obvious lack of training in singing. The church controversy. People turning away because of Yunjin. And finally the Coachella performance - I never seen a group from a big studio so troubled like them since the very beginning.
And now for me their music isn't enough to safe them because of their lack of identity. They sound like generic western music now, their voice could be replaced by any other English pop star and nothing would change. It's really sad honestly
the problem is that there were many things combined that happened over the span of a really short time that made lesserafim really disliked.