Thanks Andy, great testing. I have seen sooo many different panels over the years which promise “massive improvements”, and “excellent shade tolerance”, but usually they are little or often even no better. So these also fit the mould. I would say : Shaded from just one side, there’s slight benefit, but shading from top or bottom, basically none. Cheers.
Andy, I have been using, experimenting and selling solar panels for 25 years, and in my own experience, even with today's best technology, according to the physical size of those panels you have there, they are at best 100W each, so your testing and experiments prove results that are typical with what I would expect from those solar panels. Just like you Andy, the alarm bells first sounded loudly the moment I saw on the back panel spec sticker, the lack of panel size in watts, and open circuit and rated current (amps) output! Well done yet again, great video Andy
@@truesight91 While there is a lot of very overrated (literally) panels out there on the likes of eBay etc, but there are also a few good panels out there that really are what they say they are, I have experience with and trust the Enerdrive panels, and the Renogy panels so that's about all I can vouch for. I have in the past bought many panels that I knew where nowhere near the true size that they claimed, but they were still so cheap for the watts that I was getting, however if you are tight on realestate then of course you need to maximise your Watts per square meters, and the brands that I mentioned are sound.
The dodgy label on the panels , showing incomplete data- is a big red flag. I would steer clear just based on that alone. What are they hiding, and also installing the panels with incomplete data could be a safety issue
T H I S ! Is the comment I was looking for. There is a reason why I don’t skimp on panel quality snd this clip shows all those reasons. My REC Twin Peak solar panels would out perform all of these panels, but they should as two of the panels tested were old 2nd hand and semi aged panels. This is why my new offgrid system will be REC Alpha Pure panels……and if I for some reason couldn’t get REC, I’d have to get Sunpower Panels & live with their new 40 year warranty 😂 Don’t use shitty panels folks 👍
Hi Andy, thank you for this video, as always your tests are well done and very explicit.. but unfortunately we can really realize that these panels do not have the expected efficiency,😔 And I certainly think that this type of internal connection to the solar panel, has already been tested, tried, by many panel manufacturers, and also concluded that it is not effective, but it is good to have done the test and to share it with us.👍
Some viewers here have positive experience with these panels, different brand of course. So I'll try and get some other brands and see how they perform.
In my application which is a bus conversion, I would be interested in the watts per square foot compared to regular panels. Even though you were complaining about lower wattage, the panel you were comparing it to was bigger… also dollars per square foot would be interesting. In an RV, the space is really limited so watts per SF (or meters) is the big thing.
It was encouraging how well the old panel performed even with visible corrosion. That MPPT tester is a handy device for testing used panels. Your test results in make me wonder if used panels with micro inverters might be a good choice for areas with passing shade. 🤔
Thanks to Nick for giving you access and thanks to you for taking him up on the offer. Interesting panels, but they seem to not live up to expectations. The lack of a power rating/amp output on the panel really seems like they are hiding something. If they are (as you suspected) 130w panels, then they seem to be exaggerating. I did a quick search and found many listings for the 130w panels with dimensions and weight matching the label you showed so it's safe to assume that's exactly what they are. You should be getting at least 100w from them. The output seems decent for their physical dimensions but real world shading/cloudy output seems no better than standard poly/mono panels. Can't think of any other testing you should do.
Good little panel test. We have also extensively tested the (Outbax)Volt-X panels (Same as you are testing) and found their power figures to be around 30-50% exaggerated...) their 160-watt flexible is also more like a real output of 100-110 watts. We tested the same size panel that you tested (130-watt framed). At best, it is a 90-100-watt panel; over a year of testing and a 99.1 watts maximum was logged with Victron MPPT gear. One bad thing we also found was the Shingled (flexible) panels from Outbax (Volt-X) degraded significantly and dropped their output substantially; On a 160-watt shingled flexible, (Most ever seen was 105 W) at 12 months in, the output now is at a maximum of 38 watts and time to bin it and replace. I also note that they have removed the shingled flexible panels from sale on their site, and you have to go searching to find the old page. Likely the biggest red flag is the fact that we have left reviews on most of their items, and all have been removed that were below 5 stars. That alone is enough reason to avoid them completely! Keep up the good testing content! 👍
You can get a good estimate of a panels output by measuring it in meters and getting the square meter size and multiplying by 0.2 (20% @1000W STC). You should have been getting 1.3 times as much in direct sun (1300W/m² vs 1000W/m² used for rating panels)
Andy, you are a clever content creator my friend. You will get another episode out of this for sure. The way you leave really important things out, like actually measuring the size of the panel is pure genius.
@@OffGridGarageAustralia because things were not labeled there is a chance this panel is not the 130 watt model. If it's dimensions match that of the ones list online, then it will be clear that it is a scam.
It is the 130-watt panel; Andy showed the box dimensions and panel dimensions during the video; we have also tested the same panel and found at best, it is 100 watts, same as their 160-watt panel, is more a 110-watt, definitely a case of over-stating outputs. @@boatelectricaldiy
The conditions in which these panels would be better occur very rarely: you generally don't have that shading pattern on one side of the panel. Usually you get some shading from trees or something that affects the whole, and multiple, panels. Personally, I work with shading by using larger panels with higher output voltage. That way, I only need to put two or so in series, and have multiple of those in parallel. Should one string get shaded, it's only those two panels that are impacted, not the entire array.
Wait, what? The same shade scenario could happen everyday until the sun shifts or not at all. I have had good luck with Amorphous silicon panels for nearly two decades in a mobile system. They are getting difficult to find but last a long time. Uni-Solar made the best amorphous panels but is gone now. They just could not compete with the short term up front cost of the imported panels that flooded the market in recent years.
But what would be the difference if you have say: 9x 200W panels in series 3x 200W in series and 3 strings in parallel Would the output not be the same even you have a few panels shaded? The bypass diodes of the shaded panels would kick in and just 'bypass' them, lowering the overall voltage but don't restrict the other panels which are in the sun.
@@OffGridGarageAustralia In your particular example you would be at a very low voltage with only three of them in series compared to all nine. If these were two different sets at 200W with different voltages, that would be different: if you had to wire 9 panels in series to meet MPPT required input voltage, and you shade one or two or let's say even three panels - even if the bypass diode kicks in you're now probably below MPPT working voltage. Shading two or three panels in a parallel string set-up with higher voltage panels won't cause a voltage drop and your MPPT would be fine (if you place the panels such that those three panels are not from different parallel strings, all based on local site conditions).
Durch Zufall bin ich auf deinen Kanal gestoßen und dachte so ... Ist aber kein native speaker. Klingt deutsch. Und du bist es tatsächlich 😎. Sehr cooles Video, sehr schön präsentiert. Das Beste, welches ich zum Thema gesehen habe 😊
Andy, In a previous video (June 4) about shaded panels I presented my experience involving my first system of 12v 2 panels 100w. Then a few years later I went to 24v system and added 2 24v panels 100w each.I noticed that I get approx 20% more output from the 2 12v panels in series ,even transposing their position when the sun shines thru the trees leaves and assumed it was due to 12v panels which cost more have more internal series/parallel connections than the 2 24v panels current total
Amazing to see the sun wattage available. We're still to stupid to harvest all of it. Seen some more nice shingle panels. But just only in Down Under available 😕
Speaking of corrosion, I've embarked on a little project to upgrade my existing 17-year-old system. I am replacing the 2 x 9 x 165W 14% efficient SHARP panels with 2 x 7 (or 2 x 8 if I can swing it) x 320W 21% Renogy panels. As part of the project I just DIY'd replacing my old 3kW SMA inverter with a 5kW SMA inverter, which was straight-forward since all the existing conduit could pretty much be used in-place with only minimal adjustment. So I am finally modernizing my system and going from 2970W to 4480W (or 5120W) nameplate. Roughly 16kWh/day to (hopefully) 24-27kWh/day of real generation. A good start for this stage of my upgrade plans. But something interesting happened! The old inverter had two string inputs but only one MPPT so the two strings of 9 panels were ganged together. The new inverter has three independent MPPT so the strings are separate and I immediately noticed a rather large 80V+ discrepancy between the two (17 year old) strings. A little shading test revealed a bad panel that was mostly in bypass on one of the strings. A number of cells under the glass were clearly damaged, possibly shorted due to prior moisture. There was clear arcing or heat damage on a few of the cells. Not only that, but the new inverter is doing at least 100W, maybe even 200W better than the old inverter with the same panels (including the bad panel still in its string). I had never done this sort of test before and I was really surprised at just how much power was dropped from both strings when one had a bad panel. It was well in excess of the loss from that bad panel. So there is a lesson for me here. Actually two lessons. First, don't parallelize strings any more, at least not in the larger systems. Each string needs to be on its own MPPT or a bad panel in one string can cause both to become non-optimal. When each string is on its own MPPT, the strings will run optimally whether they have bad panels are not. And the second lesson is... a bad panel can be completely masked when multiple strings are combined in parallel. When strings are on their own MPPTs, a bad panel sticks out like a sore thumb in the statistics. I think I've been running with this bad panel for at least a year without realizing it! The old panels and inverter will be moved to the back of the house which gets only afternoon sun. Its a perfect location for using old panels and late afternoon sun is quite valuable generation, actually. I should be able to squeeze out another 10kWh out of them and hopefully get the house up to 37kWh/day or so in generation. That's the plan anyway. -- There will be a second phase to my project and that will be to add battery backup to the house's main sub-panel. I don't want to run 240VAC loads in the case of a power outage so my plan is to use the Victron Multiplus-II 2x120V (maybe two of them) and 30kWh worth of EG4 batteries. The only problem is that I have to hold my nose and get the 24VDC version of the EG4s because the Victron only supports 12 or 24VDC batteries. I would have preferred using 48VDC banks. Even though the SMA inverters are grid-tie, the new 5kW SMA I just put in also happens to have a 2000W auxiliary AC output. So theoretically I can use that in a grid-out situation to push 10-12kWh/day into the batteries. That's good enough. I might experiment with AC-coupling the old system (that will be moved to the backyard) as well. But AC-coupling in a grid-down situation is still a very young technology and I can't use it for the main solar system. Not if it has to pass inspection :-). -Matt
Thanks for the detail regarding the benefits of a single vs multiple mppt controllers. I’m still new to this and solar side of my system will come in the future for RV we live and travel full-time in. I’m in the testing phase of the power system using the 12v version of the Multiplus 2x120 (is the 24v actually available now? I know it in the docs but last I saw was that it is still months away from being available based on comments from Victron on their community forum) and something you might not have realized is that it is advertised based on VA not watts. In reality it is only a 2400w continuous inverter. Has thrown a wrench into my plan as I now have to figure out how to deal with the unexpected lower output.
@@inmyimage1081 I don't know re: the 24V version. I haven't gotten to that part of the project but I have noticed that discrepancy myself on various commerce sites. I really wish they would make a 48V version of the Multiplus II 2x120, that would be ideal. I'm not sure why they even targeted 12V to begin with.... the cables would have to be ridiculously thick at 12V. If I can't get the 24V version by the time I'm ready for that part of the project I may have to come up with plan B. A 24V architecture is the bare minimum that I'm willing to deploy.
@@junkerzn7312 The 12v target is because they are specifically designed for 50amp RV’s which are wired with 12v systems. Making even a 24v version will require the RV to have a converter for the 12v systems.
@@inmyimage1081 Ah, now it makes more sense. Damn. I think they missed a big opportunity, then. I might have to use an Outback hybrid inverter for my sub-panel backup. I always hate it when a device comes --->
Greetings from the US Sunshine State (Although it's rainy season in Florida so solar production has actually gone down 🙄). Thanks for all your great videos! They are always educational and entertaining. It was hard to judge the overall area these panels were consuming as compared to your other panels. It would be interesting to understand the output per square meter. Higher producing panels might be a better investment for those with limited space.
You should have calculated their output for a given amount of area to compare if they harness more energy if they had the same dimensions as a 250w mono. That could be re worded better. Thanks for comparing Andy, I won't be investing in those yet.
Please, present the production área proportion... they seems almost 30% less of size than the older.. If you multiply 83w by 1.30... Will be 108w... more 8% and despite the connections technology. Again, another very good vídeo. Thank you!
Hi Andy, I would love to see you test with 2 brand new half cut, multi busbars etc and compare the output vs the old second hand panels in shaded conditions. Since all mppts rely on software to track the power points and these struggle in shaded conditions, I would love to see you test fronius string inverters/some other inverters you got second hand vs victron vs micro inverters etc. All in shaded conditions.
@@OffGridGarageAustralia Sorry, you did say we should comment what we would like to see. You could use some old string inverters(that you got together with the panels) and and measure how well they convert the shaded power into the old 1.0 battery, but then you would probably need more smart shunts to measure the energy harvested. People seem to look at the labels of inverters and think all MPPTs are equal, I have a deye/sol-ark/sunsync inverter and inho it does poorly at harvesting power from partially shaded panels. I also think different brands will have an advantage due to them spending more money on mppt software that can track the multiple power point peaks.
I have also noticed over the years people purchasing solar panels online that they are like this that do not have a wattage rating on the rear sticker. For this reason is which I have always gone by physical dimensions of the laminated sheet.
Not stating power/amperage on the label…big red flag. It is so typical….I read that VoltX have bad reputation with their batteries. I am sure they are one of those Chinese wannabe companies… Thank you for taking time on testing the panels in multiple conditions and arrangements.
This video is only for cracks to see how you have tested. Would be nice if you can make a short summary of the results at the beginning, so everyone interested can see the details of testing.
I wonder if the orientation will make any difference such as in polarized sun glassed. Turning them sideways instead of upright "might" or "might not" affect their output.
I thought the same as the single cut cells are in a very slight angle, but there was no difference in power output from what I could measure in any direction and angle.
I think the efficiency comes from size/space efficiency. I have the 200w Voltx Panel on my caravan, I get horrible current output. max I have got is 6-7 amps (measured with Shunt on battery) on MPPT bulk charge to battery which is trash for a 200w panel. But, comparing to a 200w standard panel the size is a bit less on these shingled panels. Was looking for a review likes this before I bought this panel. *Warning To buyers*, I bought the 240w semi-flexible first, this failed after 1 week. Had it replaced still with voltx brand. but fixed panel. If I didn't already spend the money, I would recommend getting a more well known brand.
I have always said that a panel 1200 x 500 is always around 100 W. Until they come up with a more efficient cell this will be the norm in the Caravan industry. Basically around the 20% mark efficiency
Andy, did you ever get to the bottom on what was the true rating of these panels from the suppliers/manufacturer?? Where they really 100W panels, and they were trying to sale them as 130W?
You may have fallen out of the best working range of the Victron’s MPP(33v is really down there). Both tests should have close to same mpp voltage to be a fair comparison. Victron is sometimes ambiguous about the lower working mpp voltage numbers. That being said I found Victron to make the most power over a wider range than most others(and great apps). Regardless of cell design and diodes, one partially shaded panel in series renders unexceptional loss for the whole group. Changing shade throughout the day is my problem here. The best thing I’ve found is to segregate panels into groups so that I get more “either or” (as one set get shade the others gets sun). This also means more mpp units. It important to run the panels in enough series configurations that get them to the high of the mpp’s maximum open circuit voltage. That makes a hell of a difference! Give that a test Andy. Get ready for a big surprise in output.
The Victron MPPT only need 1V higher voltage on the panels than the battery has, so it should definitely work fine with two 18V panels in series and a connected 12V battery.
Andy, if you want to tackle with shadow, then have a look at the AE Solar AE hotspot free panels. Like e.g. HM6-60 335Wp. Each cell has its own bypass diode. I am running three of these modules on my balcony which suffers from upcoming shadow in the afternoon. They are keeping the max possible power up, only the shaded cells energy portion is missing (minus the small drop of the schottky).
Do you know a US source for these? I can’t find anyone selling them in the US, actually all the results I find are in German or a language using similar letters like ones with umlauts. Been a long long time since I took German and only remember a few words 🤪
@@inmyimage1081 Hello InMyImage, I am sorry but the sales team of AE Solar informed me, that there is no sales office nor vendor in the USA. You hat to buy directly from the China factory/office. Which obviously makes no sense - transportation cost, duty, warranty ... Best regards Herb
Andy, nice comparison, how about putting the volt X in parallel when conditions are rough and one horizontal and one vertical? Great video as always and thanks for sharing.
Hey Andy, super Test, aber ich kann deine Erkenntnisse leider nicht teilen, ich vermute es liegt an der Qualität der Panele (alleine die Angaben des Herstellers sind sehr fragwürdig für mich). Ich hab seit gut einem Monat 2 neue hyundai hie-s410vg Panele und bin begeistert davon. Ich habe pro Panel €200 bezahlt und diese liefern unter Sonne Ihre volle Leistung. Im Vergleich zu meinen Mono's mit 365W im Schatten liefern die hyundai teilweise zwischen 20-30% mehr Leistung (wobei meine Mono's 2 Jahre alt sind). Auch der Beginn der Leistung bei Sonnaufgang und das Ende bei Sonnenuntergang ist enorm. Die hyundai liefern Saft ab 05:00 morgens bis ca 21:00-21:30 die Mono's beginnen etwa im 08:00 und enden um ca 19:30/20:00. Ich freu mich immer auf deine Test aber bei diesem denke ich lag es eindeutig an den nicht "namhaften" Panels und dessen Mangels an Qualität. LG aus Österreich Markus
Super, danke Dir, Markus. Ich werde mal sehen ob ich noch andere Panels hier bekomme und teste erneut. Das hoert sich ja schon mal viel besser an, was Du hier teilst. Sowas haette ich eigentlich erwartet. Die Hyundai's sheen wirklich gut aus. Mal sehen, ob ich davon welche hier unten kaufen kann.
I find it fairly interesting. The VoltX 1145x555x55 seems to be close if not similar to the Offgridtec OLP Series with 100W, this one measuring 988x560x30 in real size, while it also features compareable datapoints. I will have to resort to those panels, as i cannot find any other good panels in that exact size for my roof-top system. I have a lenght of 1,65m between the last roof window and my first, with buffer zones and all I can do only a 1330mm x 680mm panel. I will probably go for the Offgridtec OLP180W ones, as they seem to be the best deal really. In the background i work on a small battery storage system with a switchover relay for emergency power service and what not. My local EVU will probably hate me for this, but i could care less. However i think in your test something was up with either the tracker or the panels. According to the OLP100 Datasheet the Imp is 5,53A at Ump 18.7V - for 2 panels in a row it should be 37,4Vmp, of which yours were 6V less, which already means 30W less. Also your battery voltage on the shingles was higher, 14.38V is close to the upper end voltage of Pb Batteries, potentially lowering the charging current to it. But i find the performance of the partially corroded 250W panel remarkable. Maybe you can retest it, if you come around it :)
Griaß Gott! I personally think that the half-cut cells // bifacial half-cut cell panels are the best ones. The idea of removing the bus bars completley is not wrong, but the conductive material need more research as they clearly underperforming as we saw in your testing. I still want perovskite bifacial half-cut cell solars to be a thing. Combine everything we learned so far.
Great video again. But I think the dissapointment in the first part of the video is not justified. In my opinion I can not comapre a 200 W Module with an oter 200W (or 2x100W) and think, it should give more power. I have to compare the deliverd power by the needed space of the panel. And when I am right, this two panels are a good piece smaller then the 200W module copared to. We should always take into account, that this two modules need more space for the frame as well. To I think, comparing the old module to a shingled module with the same size will give a complete different picture. ( I have done no calculation about the sizes, but I think the size should be taken in account in this comparsion.) Waiting for some new videos here frome good old germany ;-)
I have 400W Hyundai shingle solar panels. They seem okay But in the UK the weather is never good. Would love to try a unit on your testers to see a true output
Kinda disappointing! Better to stay with used panels! Thanks for the testing! Really nice to have access for test purposes! Buyers remorse would have been very disappointing!
I was already very disappointed when they didn't deliver the full power. It's like one of the cheap solar panels I bought from ebay with 1.5A at mpp. It delivered only 1A in a straight short and like 1400W/m2. They send me a new one to replace the faulty one with exact them same outcome. Super cheap panels, you get what you pay for.
Andy, can you please check what happens when the shade comes over the panels across all three strips. That is not from side to side like you have tested but from top to bottom.
It would be interesting to compare those panels against the usual when holding a lone leafed branch across them as that's a common shading situation as compared to the hard solid cardboard shading that's... not. so common.
Split cells just cut cells in half making 2 independent strings above and below. Minimal impact on efficiency but have the benefit to have top or bottom shaded.
im currently testing a 'shingled' flexible solar panel and am seeing 120w from a 200w rated panel. granted it is a 'budget' brand but theyre just not performing
Don't you mean "wrong side"? :-) But seriously, it's not that difficult. The worst thing about driving in Australia is the insanely stupid traffic light arrangements and horrible signage. Good luck finding a street name sign when you really need it, and there are many intersection accidents caused by insane traffic lights that for example have the right turn lights way over on the left side of the road and always in the same housing with the straight ahead lights, so it's easy to be fooled into going when you should stay put, especially if you're facing into the sun. When the sun is near the traffic light, green stands out a LOT more than the red, and if the housing is on the far side of the road from the turn lane it's easy to make the wrong assumption when you can't clearly see the shape of the light.
Bonsoir ANDY, ce test est très intéressant, j'ai moi même eu les mêmes résultats que toi avec des nouveaux panneaux que j'ai testé. J'ai constaté que mes panneaux polycristallin et monocristallin de 2019 avaient un rendement et une puissance supérieure de 28% supérieure au panneaux que j'ai acheté en septembre 2021. Est ce la qualité de production ...? merci pour cette vidéo.
Would be nice, if you can get AE-solar Panels - have a look at YT As single panels, they seem to be really great, but i don't know - how will be their performance together with more panels.
I assume you are referring to the „hotspot free“ moduls of AE Solar. I am operating 3 panels AE HM6-60 335Wp in series. The speciality is that each of the 60 cells has its own bypass diode. The main reason is to avoid hotspots, the side effect is that partial shading does not „kill“ the power of an entire string, like it would be with conventional panels with bypass diodes per string. Regarding your concern when operating more panels together: No reason for that. They doing fine. The same physic applies for several as it does for one.
over the years of doing advanced statistics there is a term used for results ... significant or not significant ... smiles ... these results are defined by the ROI .. and i bet they are very high in price to the significance difference bASed on this .. 8 km^2 and the new panels cumulative output would be significant on even a rainy overcaste day ..... horses for courses .. sunny today in beerwah .. just the damn flu clouding my output currently ...lol... i love our winters... cheers
@@OffGridGarageAustralia we did studies on this type so many years back .. yes it may cost the same now .. but it the ROI over 20 yrs that they do their investment calcs .. but is it significant to change away when you already have viable ?! .. smiles .. would it be significant on total life cost of panels ? .. they do not really tell us .. but VHS BETA !? one had the market and even tho BETA was superior in all ways .. never got the market ..lol.. like thin film panels .. they said they would be every where and still we wait for better ..lol... great stuf Andy.. keep us informed and communicating/talking about the hope .. sunny today with rain again coming .. gotta luv it ..
I think that thy are only 90-100W as they a standard silicon cells at ~20% efficiency and they appear to be much smaller than the 250W panel. They are not magic so they must have a lower total output.
It can be a very good panel (in landscape mode you can place them very close together. Maybe the 130 watt is a lie. And also there easier to Tetris over a roof. In Holland many roofs are limited size or complex shapes
I believe the missing specs tell the story here, I had a similar experience with a 260w ebay PV panel I purchased years ago, took ages to arrive, had similar packaging, similar lack of specs, similar lack of performance, 130watts at best. Granted in the RV world realestate is a worthy consideration for many, but come on, it was sold as a 130w panels, so should perform to that, even if they were supposedly 100w panels, they still fall far short, I would say 80watts is a fair call for these panels, u cant dispute the data! Incidentally, I have a number of 2nd hand panels u used as ur test panel here on a bus setup, i had lots of 2 panels screwed together but hadn’t screwed through the frame of one set & got distracted & forgot, we had a big storm that blew this loose set off the roof & upside down onto a concrete pad next to my bus, one panel was completely shattered but still holding together pretty strongly and they both put out spec’d power. Great vid Andy, thanks for all ur testing and efforts. Cheers
shingled panels like to run at 100v or higher as i said before its the nature of them they have a high resistance due to tiny connection points aka literally no buss bar so you need to series 4 or more panels together in your case to see theyre full potential alot of high end solar setups run 180v or higher hince what these were designed for higher voltage setups your testing them way to low on voltage series up 4 panels and compare them to a set of normal panels in series then add shade the difference will suprise you on output .
Because they are designed for 12V and 24V applications, I cannot see how users will get to such a high voltage on their RC or boat though. Here, someone bought 4 of them to charge a 12V system. Most likely these panels would be running in parallel on the roof with one MPPT connected.
@@OffGridGarageAustralia these panels were designed to be put in series upto 500v if remember correctly remember as voltage goes up less amps are carried and the MPPT solar charge controller or buck / boost converter takes it to voltage the battery bank needs and takes the voltage and amplifies the amperage in the conversion the partial shading is not a worry with these panels when series up in say 5-10+ panels these are more efficient and will bypass a panel section as needed and still add to the arrays total voltage with these panels its not about amperage but voltage these are not really designed to be a straight 12v / 24v setup theyre meant to be high voltage low amperage then use the converter to buck the amperage up in converting the excess voltage.
Also ich habe Schindel Module von ECO Delta mit jeweils 390W . Zwei davon hängen an einem Victron 100/20 und 2 Mono Module mit jeweils 360 W von Ja Solar hängen auch an einem Victron 100/20 . Die Schindel Module bei mir konnten nur in einem Szenario deutlich mehr liefern und das war ein windiger und trockner Tag an dem sich die Sonne nie wirklich durch die Wolken kämpfen könnte .
Question: I recently bought some used 265w Solar Panels "apparently" made from LG with model no: 265S1C-A3 .The sticker says polycrystalline but as far as i know LG only makes monocrystal. Did i get scammed?
The battery doesn't look like it was at the same state of charge between your testing. Looks like the battery was pretty well charged when you put the comparison on 14.4 vs 13.6 odd.
I tested only with one battery but at one occasion the SCC switched to Absorption due to a bad cable connection. I repeated this test with the same result.
Andy i think you cannot use you SPAT calibration tool on shingled panel, as cells in these panels are not flat and parallel to top glass. They must be on some 10-20 degree angle to be shingled and connected that way. Can you try them once again on direct sunlight, caligrated with spat for east/west, but try them on different elevations? You will eventually hit cells right way, so they don't throw a shade over themselves... Or it may be poor 80-90-100Wp panel sold as 130Wp.. You know, what in China is made, anything can be..
Oh, no! Uhm, yes, they are on a very slight angle when sitting on top of each other but this is more like 0.5° or even lower. These cells are very very thin.
@@OffGridGarageAustralia then it could be 130Wp of cells used to produce 100Wp panel.. (CE aka China Export numbering) but still you showed 1200W/m2 which is 20% more than standard condition.. So it is like 80Wp panel.. and for that size i see it too big then..
Shingles seems like they are not worth it unless you live permanently in the shade - I have been very pleased with my REC Norwegian twin peak 4 panels that are mirror back for low light
16C is hot for a typical summers day in South West Scotland. Cloud is typical for a lot of the year but the cloud diffuses the light during summer and when this happens North and South panels produce similar low output. We do however get the odd bit of sun some days🔆 Have you been practicing your Scottish accent? I think you need a wee bit more practice. Brian
I can see the same during cloudy shading on my panels. The output is increasing and there is no difference between east and west roof. Yeah, the accent... I'll watch some more Outlander 😁
series up the panels they have a resistance curve in the panels once you up the pass thru voltage said resistance leaves that is the nature of shingled panels
Cannot see how this would make a difference if it is purely resistance driven. The voltage drop on each shingle would still be the same regardless how many panels I put in series.
@@OffGridGarageAustralia these panels were designed to be put in series upto 500v if remember correctly remember as voltage goes up less amps are carried and the MPPT solar charge controller or buck / boost converter takes it to voltage the battery bank needs and takes the voltage and amplifies the amperage in the conversion the partial shading is not a worry with these panels when series up in say 5-10+ panels these are more efficient and will bypass a panel section as needed and still add to the arrays total voltage with these panels its not about amperage but voltage.
Als kleine Info was ich schon mehrfach bei deinen Videos gesehen habe wenn du Solarpanel misst. Die Herstellerangaben sind bei 1000W/m2 Einstrahlung. Wenn du also bei 1200W/m2 nur 88W von 130W(1kw/m2) misst haben sie nur 56% der Leistung der Herstellerangabe :) As a little info what I have seen several times in your videos when you measure solar panels. The manufacturer's specifications are at 1000W/m2 irradiation. So if you measure at 1200W/m2 only 88W of 130W(1kw/m2) they have only 56% of the power of the manufacturer's specification :)
Its depend on angle of sun when full sun hot day does not produce full power I have 285 watts Q cell only produce 250watts some how i have reach 305 watts max in some time
Thanks Andy, great testing.
I have seen sooo many different panels over the years which promise “massive improvements”, and “excellent shade tolerance”, but usually they are little or often even no better.
So these also fit the mould. I would say : Shaded from just one side, there’s slight benefit, but shading from top or bottom, basically none. Cheers.
Andy, I have been using, experimenting and selling solar panels for 25 years, and in my own experience, even with today's best technology, according to the physical size of those panels you have there, they are at best 100W each, so your testing and experiments prove results that are typical with what I would expect from those solar panels.
Just like you Andy, the alarm bells first sounded loudly the moment I saw on the back panel spec sticker, the lack of panel size in watts, and open circuit and rated current (amps) output!
Well done yet again, great video Andy
They were sold as 130W panels, so... 🤷♂️
@@OffGridGarageAustralia Were you able to confirm that yet?
What do you consider a good solar panel? I am looking for 175 - 200w range for my campervan.
@@truesight91 While there is a lot of very overrated (literally) panels out there on the likes of eBay etc, but there are also a few good panels out there that really are what they say they are, I have experience with and trust the Enerdrive panels, and the Renogy panels so that's about all I can vouch for.
I have in the past bought many panels that I knew where nowhere near the true size that they claimed, but they were still so cheap for the watts that I was getting, however if you are tight on realestate then of course you need to maximise your Watts per square meters, and the brands that I mentioned are sound.
@@ValRigoli Thanks I been keeping an eye on Renogy, either flexible or fixed, not sure yet which one will suit me best.
These "All-Black" are aesthetically pleasing.
What does it help though...
@@OffGridGarageAustralia none - purely appearance. Some uses them on walls and looks nice (no need for fancy paint job).
It's almost as if the conventional designs have lasted this long for a reason....they work the best. Thanks for showing us something new.
smiles .. not really new .. we studied these many years back when the idea was first promoted .. it does better but ...?! .. ROI ?! time will tell
The half-cut cell panels are widely available and which helps with shaded conditions as well.
There are now triple cut panels. Even better?
I wish TH-cam history search wasn't so bad, because I saw a great video about the efficiency and science behind half-cut cells.
The dodgy label on the panels , showing incomplete data- is a big red flag. I would steer clear just based on that alone. What are they hiding, and also installing the panels with incomplete data could be a safety issue
T H I S ! Is the comment I was looking for.
There is a reason why I don’t skimp on panel quality snd this clip shows all those reasons.
My REC Twin Peak solar panels would out perform all of these panels, but they should as two of the panels tested were old 2nd hand and semi aged panels.
This is why my new offgrid system will be REC Alpha Pure panels……and if I for some reason couldn’t get REC, I’d have to get Sunpower Panels & live with their new 40 year warranty 😂
Don’t use shitty panels folks 👍
Hi Andy, thank you for this video, as always your tests are well done and very explicit..
but unfortunately we can really realize that these panels do not have the expected efficiency,😔 And I certainly think that this type of internal connection to the solar panel, has already been tested, tried, by many panel manufacturers, and also concluded that it is not effective, but it is good to have done the test and to share it with us.👍
Some viewers here have positive experience with these panels, different brand of course. So I'll try and get some other brands and see how they perform.
In my application which is a bus conversion, I would be interested in the watts per square foot compared to regular panels. Even though you were complaining about lower wattage, the panel you were comparing it to was bigger… also dollars per square foot would be interesting. In an RV, the space is really limited so watts per SF (or meters) is the big thing.
OK, I'll keep this in mind.
It was encouraging how well the old panel performed even with visible corrosion. That MPPT tester is a handy device for testing used panels. Your test results in make me wonder if used panels with micro inverters might be a good choice for areas with passing shade. 🤔
Thanks to Nick for giving you access and thanks to you for taking him up on the offer. Interesting panels, but they seem to not live up to expectations. The lack of a power rating/amp output on the panel really seems like they are hiding something. If they are (as you suspected) 130w panels, then they seem to be exaggerating. I did a quick search and found many listings for the 130w panels with dimensions and weight matching the label you showed so it's safe to assume that's exactly what they are. You should be getting at least 100w from them. The output seems decent for their physical dimensions but real world shading/cloudy output seems no better than standard poly/mono panels. Can't think of any other testing you should do.
They should deliver the 130W or even more if new. And in shade they should be 20-30% better than the old panel.
Good little panel test. We have also extensively tested the (Outbax)Volt-X panels (Same as you are testing) and found their power figures to be around 30-50% exaggerated...) their 160-watt flexible is also more like a real output of 100-110 watts. We tested the same size panel that you tested (130-watt framed). At best, it is a 90-100-watt panel; over a year of testing and a 99.1 watts maximum was logged with Victron MPPT gear.
One bad thing we also found was the Shingled (flexible) panels from Outbax (Volt-X) degraded significantly and dropped their output substantially; On a 160-watt shingled flexible, (Most ever seen was 105 W) at 12 months in, the output now is at a maximum of 38 watts and time to bin it and replace. I also note that they have removed the shingled flexible panels from sale on their site, and you have to go searching to find the old page.
Likely the biggest red flag is the fact that we have left reviews on most of their items, and all have been removed that were below 5 stars. That alone is enough reason to avoid them completely!
Keep up the good testing content!
👍
You can get a good estimate of a panels output by measuring it in meters and getting the square meter size and multiplying by 0.2 (20% @1000W STC). You should have been getting 1.3 times as much in direct sun (1300W/m² vs 1000W/m² used for rating panels)
Something is not right here. We will see what the manufacturer says.
This would be a splendid video to watch for the "society of putting things on top of other things"
Is that really a thing?
@@OffGridGarageAustralia British humor! th-cam.com/video/LFrdqQZ8FFc/w-d-xo.html
Very helpful, practical information, even if it is a bit disappointing. Thanks for another informative test.
Thank you!
Andy, you are a clever content creator my friend. You will get another episode out of this for sure. The way you leave really important things out, like actually measuring the size of the panel is pure genius.
The dimensions are on the box and on the website. I have not bothered measuring them. Do you think it would make a difference?
@@OffGridGarageAustralia because things were not labeled there is a chance this panel is not the 130 watt model. If it's dimensions match that of the ones list online, then it will be clear that it is a scam.
It is the 130-watt panel; Andy showed the box dimensions and panel dimensions during the video; we have also tested the same panel and found at best, it is 100 watts, same as their 160-watt panel, is more a 110-watt, definitely a case of over-stating outputs. @@boatelectricaldiy
The conditions in which these panels would be better occur very rarely: you generally don't have that shading pattern on one side of the panel. Usually you get some shading from trees or something that affects the whole, and multiple, panels. Personally, I work with shading by using larger panels with higher output voltage. That way, I only need to put two or so in series, and have multiple of those in parallel. Should one string get shaded, it's only those two panels that are impacted, not the entire array.
Wait, what? The same shade scenario could happen everyday until the sun shifts or not at all. I have had good luck with Amorphous silicon panels for nearly two decades in a mobile system. They are getting difficult to find but last a long time. Uni-Solar made the best amorphous panels but is gone now. They just could not compete with the short term up front cost of the imported panels that flooded the market in recent years.
@@geraldhenrickson7472 Amorphous? Seriously? You’re welcome to them. Not this little black duck.
Yep. I use higher voltage panels and more parallel strings laid out considering partial shading patterns from two neigbours' trees to the north.
But what would be the difference if you have say:
9x 200W panels in series
3x 200W in series and 3 strings in parallel
Would the output not be the same even you have a few panels shaded? The bypass diodes of the shaded panels would kick in and just 'bypass' them, lowering the overall voltage but don't restrict the other panels which are in the sun.
@@OffGridGarageAustralia In your particular example you would be at a very low voltage with only three of them in series compared to all nine. If these were two different sets at 200W with different voltages, that would be different: if you had to wire 9 panels in series to meet MPPT required input voltage, and you shade one or two or let's say even three panels - even if the bypass diode kicks in you're now probably below MPPT working voltage. Shading two or three panels in a parallel string set-up with higher voltage panels won't cause a voltage drop and your MPPT would be fine (if you place the panels such that those three panels are not from different parallel strings, all based on local site conditions).
Thanks Andy
G'day Andy Can't wait for the solar paint to come out
Not as long as we live, I'm afraid...
Durch Zufall bin ich auf deinen Kanal gestoßen und dachte so ... Ist aber kein native speaker. Klingt deutsch. Und du bist es tatsächlich 😎. Sehr cooles Video, sehr schön präsentiert. Das Beste, welches ich zum Thema gesehen habe 😊
Andy, In a previous video (June 4) about shaded panels I presented my experience involving my first system of 12v 2 panels 100w. Then a few years later I went to 24v system and added 2 24v panels 100w each.I noticed that I get approx 20% more output from the 2 12v panels in series ,even transposing their position when the sun shines thru the trees leaves and assumed it was due to 12v panels which cost more have more internal series/parallel connections than the 2 24v panels current total
I have The LG NeON®2 BiFacial on a pergonia setup. I think these are the best setup for the dark months of the year, as well as shade, here in Belgium
Yeah, bifacial are great for certain installations.
Amazing to see the sun wattage available.
We're still to stupid to harvest all of it.
Seen some more nice shingle panels. But just only in Down Under available 😕
Speaking of corrosion, I've embarked on a little project to upgrade my existing 17-year-old system. I am replacing the 2 x 9 x 165W 14% efficient SHARP panels with 2 x 7 (or 2 x 8 if I can swing it) x 320W 21% Renogy panels. As part of the project I just DIY'd replacing my old 3kW SMA inverter with a 5kW SMA inverter, which was straight-forward since all the existing conduit could pretty much be used in-place with only minimal adjustment. So I am finally modernizing my system and going from 2970W to 4480W (or 5120W) nameplate. Roughly 16kWh/day to (hopefully) 24-27kWh/day of real generation. A good start for this stage of my upgrade plans.
But something interesting happened! The old inverter had two string inputs but only one MPPT so the two strings of 9 panels were ganged together. The new inverter has three independent MPPT so the strings are separate and I immediately noticed a rather large 80V+ discrepancy between the two (17 year old) strings. A little shading test revealed a bad panel that was mostly in bypass on one of the strings. A number of cells under the glass were clearly damaged, possibly shorted due to prior moisture. There was clear arcing or heat damage on a few of the cells. Not only that, but the new inverter is doing at least 100W, maybe even 200W better than the old inverter with the same panels (including the bad panel still in its string).
I had never done this sort of test before and I was really surprised at just how much power was dropped from both strings when one had a bad panel. It was well in excess of the loss from that bad panel. So there is a lesson for me here. Actually two lessons. First, don't parallelize strings any more, at least not in the larger systems. Each string needs to be on its own MPPT or a bad panel in one string can cause both to become non-optimal. When each string is on its own MPPT, the strings will run optimally whether they have bad panels are not. And the second lesson is... a bad panel can be completely masked when multiple strings are combined in parallel. When strings are on their own MPPTs, a bad panel sticks out like a sore thumb in the statistics. I think I've been running with this bad panel for at least a year without realizing it!
The old panels and inverter will be moved to the back of the house which gets only afternoon sun. Its a perfect location for using old panels and late afternoon sun is quite valuable generation, actually. I should be able to squeeze out another 10kWh out of them and hopefully get the house up to 37kWh/day or so in generation. That's the plan anyway.
--
There will be a second phase to my project and that will be to add battery backup to the house's main sub-panel. I don't want to run 240VAC loads in the case of a power outage so my plan is to use the Victron Multiplus-II 2x120V (maybe two of them) and 30kWh worth of EG4 batteries. The only problem is that I have to hold my nose and get the 24VDC version of the EG4s because the Victron only supports 12 or 24VDC batteries. I would have preferred using 48VDC banks. Even though the SMA inverters are grid-tie, the new 5kW SMA I just put in also happens to have a 2000W auxiliary AC output. So theoretically I can use that in a grid-out situation to push 10-12kWh/day into the batteries. That's good enough.
I might experiment with AC-coupling the old system (that will be moved to the backyard) as well. But AC-coupling in a grid-down situation is still a very young technology and I can't use it for the main solar system. Not if it has to pass inspection :-).
-Matt
Thanks for the detail regarding the benefits of a single vs multiple mppt controllers. I’m still new to this and solar side of my system will come in the future for RV we live and travel full-time in. I’m in the testing phase of the power system using the 12v version of the Multiplus 2x120 (is the 24v actually available now? I know it in the docs but last I saw was that it is still months away from being available based on comments from Victron on their community forum) and something you might not have realized is that it is advertised based on VA not watts. In reality it is only a 2400w continuous inverter. Has thrown a wrench into my plan as I now have to figure out how to deal with the unexpected lower output.
@@inmyimage1081 I don't know re: the 24V version. I haven't gotten to that part of the project but I have noticed that discrepancy myself on various commerce sites.
I really wish they would make a 48V version of the Multiplus II 2x120, that would be ideal. I'm not sure why they even targeted 12V to begin with.... the cables would have to be ridiculously thick at 12V. If I can't get the 24V version by the time I'm ready for that part of the project I may have to come up with plan B. A 24V architecture is the bare minimum that I'm willing to deploy.
@@junkerzn7312 The 12v target is because they are specifically designed for 50amp RV’s which are wired with 12v systems. Making even a 24v version will require the RV to have a converter for the 12v systems.
@@inmyimage1081 Ah, now it makes more sense. Damn. I think they missed a big opportunity, then. I might have to use an Outback hybrid inverter for my sub-panel backup.
I always hate it when a device comes --->
@@junkerzn7312 Especially after already sinking a big chunk of money on it 🥺
Greetings from the US Sunshine State (Although it's rainy season in Florida so solar production has actually gone down 🙄). Thanks for all your great videos! They are always educational and entertaining.
It was hard to judge the overall area these panels were consuming as compared to your other panels. It would be interesting to understand the output per square meter. Higher producing panels might be a better investment for those with limited space.
They were supposed to be 130W panels. Two in series makes 260W and I compared this to an 8 year old 250W panel and also 215W panel.
thank you for that Video Andi.
My pleasure 😊
You should have calculated their output for a given amount of area to compare if they harness more energy if they had the same dimensions as a 250w mono. That could be re worded better. Thanks for comparing Andy, I won't be investing in those yet.
Yes, absolutely. W/m²
Yep, I watched the sequel with the Hyundai panels right after, they are nice ☺
im using this kind of solar panel for 4 months now and i like how they are smaller and lighter but offers higher voltage than same wattage panels
Must be a different brand, as these ones from Outbax or VoltX surely don't work well.
Please, present the production área proportion... they seems almost 30% less of size than the older.. If you multiply 83w by 1.30... Will be 108w... more 8% and despite the connections technology. Again, another very good vídeo. Thank you!
Hi Andy, I would love to see you test with 2 brand new half cut, multi busbars etc and compare the output vs the old second hand panels in shaded conditions. Since all mppts rely on software to track the power points and these struggle in shaded conditions, I would love to see you test fronius string inverters/some other inverters you got second hand vs victron vs micro inverters etc. All in shaded conditions.
That is a lot of gear you want me to buy...
@@OffGridGarageAustralia Sorry, you did say we should comment what we would like to see. You could use some old string inverters(that you got together with the panels) and and measure how well they convert the shaded power into the old 1.0 battery, but then you would probably need more smart shunts to measure the energy harvested. People seem to look at the labels of inverters and think all MPPTs are equal, I have a deye/sol-ark/sunsync inverter and inho it does poorly at harvesting power from partially shaded panels. I also think different brands will have an advantage due to them spending more money on mppt software that can track the multiple power point peaks.
I have also noticed over the years people purchasing solar panels online that they are like this that do not have a wattage rating on the rear sticker. For this reason is which I have always gone by physical dimensions of the laminated sheet.
Not stating power/amperage on the label…big red flag. It is so typical….I read that VoltX have bad reputation with their batteries. I am sure they are one of those Chinese wannabe companies…
Thank you for taking time on testing the panels in multiple conditions and arrangements.
We will see, Nick has now contacted VoltX with the results...
Nice work. I'm curios how the three types of panel would perform when measuring watts/area.
This video is only for cracks to see how you have tested. Would be nice if you can make a short summary of the results at the beginning, so everyone interested can see the details of testing.
I wonder if the orientation will make any difference such as in polarized sun glassed. Turning them sideways instead of upright "might" or "might not" affect their output.
I thought the same as the single cut cells are in a very slight angle, but there was no difference in power output from what I could measure in any direction and angle.
I think the efficiency comes from size/space efficiency. I have the 200w Voltx Panel on my caravan, I get horrible current output. max I have got is 6-7 amps (measured with Shunt on battery) on MPPT bulk charge to battery which is trash for a 200w panel.
But, comparing to a 200w standard panel the size is a bit less on these shingled panels.
Was looking for a review likes this before I bought this panel.
*Warning To buyers*, I bought the 240w semi-flexible first, this failed after 1 week. Had it replaced still with voltx brand. but fixed panel. If I didn't already spend the money, I would recommend getting a more well known brand.
Another awesome video mate.
Your testing suggests that the VoltX is a 90W panel. Seen from that perpecftive they perform well.
Can you do the same test again: poly vs mono?
I have always said that a panel 1200 x 500 is always around 100 W. Until they come up with a more efficient cell this will be the norm in the Caravan industry. Basically around the 20% mark efficiency
Thanks for the videos, interesting,,I just wonder ,what would be the results in wed/rainy conditions?
Uhm... It's in the video 🤷♂️
Andy, did you ever get to the bottom on what was the true rating of these panels from the suppliers/manufacturer?? Where they really 100W panels, and they were trying to sale them as 130W?
You may have fallen out of the best working range of the Victron’s MPP(33v is really down there).
Both tests should have close to same mpp voltage to be a fair comparison. Victron is sometimes ambiguous about the lower working mpp voltage numbers. That being said I found Victron to make the most power over a wider range than most others(and great apps). Regardless of cell design and diodes, one partially shaded panel in series renders unexceptional loss for the whole group. Changing shade throughout the day is my problem here. The best thing I’ve found is to segregate panels into groups so that I get more “either or” (as one set get shade the others gets sun). This also means more mpp units. It important to run the panels in enough series configurations that get them to the high of the mpp’s maximum open circuit voltage. That makes a hell of a difference! Give that a test Andy. Get ready for a big surprise in output.
The Victron MPPT only need 1V higher voltage on the panels than the battery has, so it should definitely work fine with two 18V panels in series and a connected 12V battery.
130W on the Chinese W scale !
Andy, if you want to tackle with shadow, then have a look at the AE Solar AE hotspot free panels. Like e.g. HM6-60 335Wp.
Each cell has its own bypass diode. I am running three of these modules on my balcony which suffers from upcoming shadow in the afternoon.
They are keeping the max possible power up, only the shaded cells energy portion is missing (minus the small drop of the schottky).
Do you know a US source for these? I can’t find anyone selling them in the US, actually all the results I find are in German or a language using similar letters like ones with umlauts. Been a long long time since I took German and only remember a few words 🤪
@@inmyimage1081 I just wrote a mail to the headquarter sales team (here in Germany). I will keep you posted. BR Herb
@@inmyimage1081 Hello InMyImage, I am sorry but the sales team of AE Solar informed me, that there is no sales office nor vendor in the USA. You hat to buy directly from the China factory/office. Which obviously makes no sense - transportation cost, duty, warranty ...
Best regards
Herb
@@hmr_ Thanks for following up, really appreciate it.
Andy, nice comparison, how about putting the volt X in parallel when conditions are rough and one horizontal and one vertical? Great video as always and thanks for sharing.
Thanks Edward. I can try but I don't expect a difference. The orientation should have absolutely no effect.
Great information. Thank you
You'd get more output from the solar powered cat in the background :)
Good explanation..
Love your vids Iv got a Victron 75/15 solar controller looking at running a house Pannel what’s the most watt I can run thank you
Hey Andy, super Test, aber ich kann deine Erkenntnisse leider nicht teilen, ich vermute es liegt an der Qualität der Panele (alleine die Angaben des Herstellers sind sehr fragwürdig für mich).
Ich hab seit gut einem Monat 2 neue hyundai hie-s410vg Panele und bin begeistert davon.
Ich habe pro Panel €200 bezahlt und diese liefern unter Sonne Ihre volle Leistung.
Im Vergleich zu meinen Mono's mit 365W im Schatten liefern die hyundai teilweise zwischen 20-30% mehr Leistung (wobei meine Mono's 2 Jahre alt sind). Auch der Beginn der Leistung bei Sonnaufgang und das Ende bei Sonnenuntergang ist enorm. Die hyundai liefern Saft ab 05:00 morgens bis ca 21:00-21:30 die Mono's beginnen etwa im 08:00 und enden um ca 19:30/20:00. Ich freu mich immer auf deine Test aber bei diesem denke ich lag es eindeutig an den nicht "namhaften" Panels und dessen Mangels an Qualität. LG aus Österreich Markus
Super, danke Dir, Markus. Ich werde mal sehen ob ich noch andere Panels hier bekomme und teste erneut. Das hoert sich ja schon mal viel besser an, was Du hier teilst. Sowas haette ich eigentlich erwartet.
Die Hyundai's sheen wirklich gut aus. Mal sehen, ob ich davon welche hier unten kaufen kann.
Very interesting stuff, thanks
Very welcome
I find it fairly interesting. The VoltX 1145x555x55 seems to be close if not similar to the Offgridtec OLP Series with 100W, this one measuring 988x560x30 in real size, while it also features compareable datapoints.
I will have to resort to those panels, as i cannot find any other good panels in that exact size for my roof-top system. I have a lenght of 1,65m between the last roof window and my first, with buffer zones and all I can do only a 1330mm x 680mm panel. I will probably go for the Offgridtec OLP180W ones, as they seem to be the best deal really. In the background i work on a small battery storage system with a switchover relay for emergency power service and what not. My local EVU will probably hate me for this, but i could care less.
However i think in your test something was up with either the tracker or the panels. According to the OLP100 Datasheet the Imp is 5,53A at Ump 18.7V - for 2 panels in a row it should be 37,4Vmp, of which yours were 6V less, which already means 30W less.
Also your battery voltage on the shingles was higher, 14.38V is close to the upper end voltage of Pb Batteries, potentially lowering the charging current to it.
But i find the performance of the partially corroded 250W panel remarkable.
Maybe you can retest it, if you come around it :)
Griaß Gott! I personally think that the half-cut cells // bifacial half-cut cell panels are the best ones. The idea of removing the bus bars completley is not wrong, but the conductive material need more research as they clearly underperforming as we saw in your testing.
I still want perovskite bifacial half-cut cell solars to be a thing. Combine everything we learned so far.
thanks m8 good job
Great video again. But I think the dissapointment in the first part of the video is not justified.
In my opinion I can not comapre a 200 W Module with an oter 200W (or 2x100W) and think, it should give more power.
I have to compare the deliverd power by the needed space of the panel. And when I am right, this two panels are a good piece smaller then the 200W module copared to. We should always take into account, that this two modules need more space for the frame as well. To I think, comparing the old module to a shingled module with the same size will give a complete different picture.
( I have done no calculation about the sizes, but I think the size should be taken in account in this comparsion.)
Waiting for some new videos here frome good old germany ;-)
Good old MONO for the win 💪
You truly enjoy this stuff. I can just picture your wife sitting in the distance watching you running around.
She does sometimes help 😂
I have 400W Hyundai shingle solar panels. They seem okay But in the UK the weather is never good. Would love to try a unit on your testers to see a true output
What brand and model do you have?
Kinda disappointing!
Better to stay with used panels!
Thanks for the testing!
Really nice to have access for test purposes!
Buyers remorse would have been very disappointing!
I was already very disappointed when they didn't deliver the full power. It's like one of the cheap solar panels I bought from ebay with 1.5A at mpp. It delivered only 1A in a straight short and like 1400W/m2. They send me a new one to replace the faulty one with exact them same outcome. Super cheap panels, you get what you pay for.
@@OffGridGarageAustralia :(
Andy, can you please check what happens when the shade comes over the panels across all three strips. That is not from side to side like you have tested but from top to bottom.
He did that. The output drops to 0.
It would be interesting to compare those panels against the usual when holding a lone leafed branch across them as that's a common shading situation as compared to the hard solid cardboard shading that's... not. so common.
Interesting 👍 Is that parallel layout the same kind of way split cell panels work as well? I have 2 x Trina 340w panels with a busbar down halfway.
Split cells just cut cells in half making 2 independent strings above and below. Minimal impact on efficiency but have the benefit to have top or bottom shaded.
You might try half cell panels with diodes or micro inverters I think it will make a difference for you
im currently testing a 'shingled' flexible solar panel and am seeing 120w from a 200w rated panel. granted it is a 'budget' brand but theyre just not performing
Filming while driving, well done.
It's a Tesla...
I don't recommend
@@MrEroshan yeah it's even a better reason to not do it
I can eat and drink while driving.
do they change when you rotate them in the sun because of the louver effect ?
I could not see any difference. The angle of the cells is so low, they are almost flat.
Completely offtopic: I really admire you for being able to cope with the left side driving in Australia. How did you manage to get used to this?
Don't you mean "wrong side"? :-) But seriously, it's not that difficult. The worst thing about driving in Australia is the insanely stupid traffic light arrangements and horrible signage. Good luck finding a street name sign when you really need it, and there are many intersection accidents caused by insane traffic lights that for example have the right turn lights way over on the left side of the road and always in the same housing with the straight ahead lights, so it's easy to be fooled into going when you should stay put, especially if you're facing into the sun. When the sun is near the traffic light, green stands out a LOT more than the red, and if the housing is on the far side of the road from the turn lane it's easy to make the wrong assumption when you can't clearly see the shape of the light.
Takes you two days and you never think about the other side any more.
It takes far longer to remember on which side to enter your car though 😂
Bonsoir ANDY, ce test est très intéressant, j'ai moi même eu les mêmes résultats que toi avec des nouveaux panneaux que j'ai testé. J'ai constaté que mes panneaux polycristallin et monocristallin de 2019 avaient un rendement et une puissance supérieure de 28% supérieure au panneaux que j'ai acheté en septembre 2021. Est ce la qualité de production ...? merci pour cette vidéo.
I have a forty-year-old 130watt panel on a shed that produces more power. I wonder how my Amorphous panels will work.
Wow, I expected more as well!
Yep, not good. We will see what the manufacturer says.
Put some red isolation tape on the display, the flickering is gone then and you can read the display through the tape.
If I put tape over the display, I cannot read anything any more.
what about half cut solars (currently i have it and i think so is the best option for now) ?
Yeah, need to look into them. There are now tripple cut solar panels on the market. Apparently even more efficient.
could you test Bluesun shingled solar panels? Or do you have some information about their quality?
I don't have these panels, sorry.
Please do the Same shade Test with the Mono Panels to compare
I thought I did this.
good video... unexpected results.
Would be nice, if you can get AE-solar Panels - have a look at YT
As single panels, they seem to be really great, but i don't know - how will be their performance together with more panels.
I assume you are referring to the „hotspot free“ moduls of AE Solar. I am operating 3 panels AE HM6-60 335Wp in series. The speciality is that each of the 60 cells has its own bypass diode. The main reason is to avoid hotspots, the side effect is that partial shading does not „kill“ the power of an entire string, like it would be with conventional panels with bypass diodes per string.
Regarding your concern when operating more panels together: No reason for that. They doing fine. The same physic applies for several as it does for one.
over the years of doing advanced statistics there is a term used for results ... significant or not significant ... smiles ... these results are defined by the ROI .. and i bet they are very high in price to the significance difference bASed on this .. 8 km^2 and the new panels cumulative output would be significant on even a rainy overcaste day ..... horses for courses .. sunny today in beerwah .. just the damn flu clouding my output currently ...lol... i love our winters... cheers
The two shingled panels cost around the same as a single 250W panel.
@@OffGridGarageAustralia we did studies on this type so many years back .. yes it may cost the same now .. but it the ROI over 20 yrs that they do their investment calcs .. but is it significant to change away when you already have viable ?! .. smiles .. would it be significant on total life cost of panels ? .. they do not really tell us .. but VHS BETA !? one had the market and even tho BETA was superior in all ways .. never got the market ..lol.. like thin film panels .. they said they would be every where and still we wait for better ..lol... great stuf Andy.. keep us informed and communicating/talking about the hope .. sunny today with rain again coming .. gotta luv it ..
I think that thy are only 90-100W as they a standard silicon cells at ~20% efficiency and they appear to be much smaller than the 250W panel. They are not magic so they must have a lower total output.
They certainly aren't magic and with this small form factor, the efficiency must be far greater than 20% if they would get to 130W.
It can be a very good panel (in landscape mode you can place them very close together. Maybe the 130 watt is a lie. And also there easier to Tetris over a roof. In Holland many roofs are limited size or complex shapes
That's a good point. It adds to the complexity of wiring though.
Great looking panels.seems to be 100 watt panels sold as 130 watt.(not good business)
I believe the missing specs tell the story here, I had a similar experience with a 260w ebay PV panel I purchased years ago, took ages to arrive, had similar packaging, similar lack of specs, similar lack of performance, 130watts at best. Granted in the RV world realestate is a worthy consideration for many, but come on, it was sold as a 130w panels, so should perform to that, even if they were supposedly 100w panels, they still fall far short, I would say 80watts is a fair call for these panels, u cant dispute the data! Incidentally, I have a number of 2nd hand panels u used as ur test panel here on a bus setup, i had lots of 2 panels screwed together but hadn’t screwed through the frame of one set & got distracted & forgot, we had a big storm that blew this loose set off the roof & upside down onto a concrete pad next to my bus, one panel was completely shattered but still holding together pretty strongly and they both put out spec’d power. Great vid Andy, thanks for all ur testing and efforts. Cheers
Heya, nice test so it seems like those panels are not wort baying
shingled panels like to run at 100v or higher as i said before its the nature of them they have a high resistance due to tiny connection points aka literally no buss bar so you need to series 4 or more panels together in your case to see theyre full potential alot of high end solar setups run 180v or higher hince what these were designed for higher voltage setups your testing them way to low on voltage series up 4 panels and compare them to a set of normal panels in series then add shade the difference will suprise you on output .
Because they are designed for 12V and 24V applications, I cannot see how users will get to such a high voltage on their RC or boat though. Here, someone bought 4 of them to charge a 12V system. Most likely these panels would be running in parallel on the roof with one MPPT connected.
@@OffGridGarageAustralia these panels were designed to be put in series upto 500v if remember correctly remember as voltage goes up less amps are carried and the MPPT solar charge controller or buck / boost converter takes it to voltage the battery bank needs and takes the voltage and amplifies the amperage in the conversion the partial shading is not a worry with these panels when series up in say 5-10+ panels these are more efficient and will bypass a panel section as needed and still add to the arrays total voltage with these panels its not about amperage but voltage these are not really designed to be a straight 12v / 24v setup theyre meant to be high voltage low amperage then use the converter to buck the amperage up in converting the excess voltage.
Also ich habe Schindel Module von ECO Delta mit jeweils 390W . Zwei davon hängen an einem Victron 100/20 und 2 Mono Module mit jeweils 360 W von Ja Solar hängen auch an einem Victron 100/20 . Die Schindel Module bei mir konnten nur in einem Szenario deutlich mehr liefern und das war ein windiger und trockner Tag an dem sich die Sonne nie wirklich durch die Wolken kämpfen könnte .
Danke fuer die Information. Ich will mal versuchen 3 von solchen Zellen zu bekommen und die aufs Dach zu nageln um noch mehr zu testen.
If the photons can't get through all panels will be poo 😭
I will be crying frozen tears in the winter, I'll send you a video lol.
Now I may be crazy but it almost looked like at the edge it was still covered with shipping plastic wrap. Could it have a thin layer to peal off?
Nope, no additional plastic on top.
Question: I recently bought some used 265w Solar Panels "apparently" made from LG with model no: 265S1C-A3 .The sticker says polycrystalline but as far as i know LG only makes monocrystal. Did i get scammed?
What's in the frunk? Spat?
Just linen, I wasn't sure if the panels are blank or in a box still.
nice testing :)
I have bought panels that had no specs on the label. They were impossibly small and not the advertised power. If no vmp on panel avoid them I think.
Yeah, me too. I got a full refund from the seller on eBay and still use the panels. Not sure how long they will last though.
The battery doesn't look like it was at the same state of charge between your testing. Looks like the battery was pretty well charged when you put the comparison on 14.4 vs 13.6 odd.
I tested only with one battery but at one occasion the SCC switched to Absorption due to a bad cable connection. I repeated this test with the same result.
Andy i think you cannot use you SPAT calibration tool on shingled panel, as cells in these panels are not flat and parallel to top glass. They must be on some 10-20 degree angle to be shingled and connected that way. Can you try them once again on direct sunlight, caligrated with spat for east/west, but try them on different elevations? You will eventually hit cells right way, so they don't throw a shade over themselves... Or it may be poor 80-90-100Wp panel sold as 130Wp.. You know, what in China is made, anything can be..
Oh, no! Uhm, yes, they are on a very slight angle when sitting on top of each other but this is more like 0.5° or even lower. These cells are very very thin.
@@OffGridGarageAustralia then it could be 130Wp of cells used to produce 100Wp panel.. (CE aka China Export numbering)
but still you showed 1200W/m2 which is 20% more than standard condition.. So it is like 80Wp panel.. and for that size i see it too big then..
Time to do some more learning, thank you
👍 Thanks :-)
Shingles seems like they are not worth it unless you live permanently in the shade - I have been very pleased with my REC Norwegian twin peak 4 panels that are mirror back for low light
16C is hot for a typical summers day in South West Scotland. Cloud is typical for a lot of the year but the cloud diffuses the light during summer and when this happens North and South panels produce similar low output. We do however get the odd bit of sun some days🔆 Have you been practicing your Scottish accent? I think you need a wee bit more practice. Brian
I can see the same during cloudy shading on my panels. The output is increasing and there is no difference between east and west roof.
Yeah, the accent... I'll watch some more Outlander 😁
What did the subscriber say? Are they supposed to be 100w? Otherwise it's clearly a scam to announce 130w for a 100w panel.
They have been sold as 130W panels and are clearly underperforming. Let's see what the manufacturer says.
Better you choose a brand which has got a complete data sheet for the next test.
series up the panels they have a resistance curve in the panels once you up the pass thru voltage said resistance leaves that is the nature of shingled panels
Cannot see how this would make a difference if it is purely resistance driven. The voltage drop on each shingle would still be the same regardless how many panels I put in series.
@@OffGridGarageAustralia these panels were designed to be put in series upto 500v if remember correctly remember as voltage goes up less amps are carried and the MPPT solar charge controller or buck / boost converter takes it to voltage the battery bank needs and takes the voltage and amplifies the amperage in the conversion the partial shading is not a worry with these panels when series up in say 5-10+ panels these are more efficient and will bypass a panel section as needed and still add to the arrays total voltage with these panels its not about amperage but voltage.
Als kleine Info was ich schon mehrfach bei deinen Videos gesehen habe wenn du Solarpanel misst. Die Herstellerangaben sind bei 1000W/m2 Einstrahlung.
Wenn du also bei 1200W/m2 nur 88W von 130W(1kw/m2) misst haben sie nur 56% der Leistung der Herstellerangabe :)
As a little info what I have seen several times in your videos when you measure solar panels. The manufacturer's specifications are at 1000W/m2 irradiation.
So if you measure at 1200W/m2 only 88W of 130W(1kw/m2) they have only 56% of the power of the manufacturer's specification :)
Das ist richtig.
Its depend on angle of sun when full sun hot day does not produce full power
I have 285 watts Q cell only produce 250watts some how i have reach 305 watts max in some time