I booked an Electrician to check on my DIY Solar-Battery System.
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 ก.ย. 2024
- Last week, the electrician was in the Off-Grid-Garage. As the system grows bigger and bigger, I felt it was time to get someone professional in to check on safety but also make some recommendations on what to do with the solar installation on the roof.
So far so good. I was a bit relieved, that there was no major problem with the design or system itself. Just a few things need improvement and upgrade. We also need to install a ground fault alarm which the electrician will do. For the aging solar panels on the roof, he made an interesting suggestion which I find more and more attractive... The STCs can really save you some money. But will I go this way?
Links of videos I mentioned:
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thinking outside the box... how about extending the garage roof eaves to create the required space around the panels
Easy to say, not practical to do.
Exactly! You beat me to it.
Was thinking the same just add a narrow verandah where he needs the extra space.
Love it ❤
You could do a covered extension out of heavy steel with an I beam in the overhead....then you could have a lift point and beam runner with a chain fall.... Makes unloading heavy stuff easier on the back 😋
Heya, I didn't have a doubt that the check from the electrician would be very bad or bad at all oke you have to change 2 or 3 things but that is all doable. hope you will do this soon greating from Holland
Andy, why not just keep the current system, repair the panels by using some sealant(sika) from the back, they should be good for many more years. After your $0.44 FIT ends then re evaluate. I'm not sure Installing more panels now would be worthwhile as you would be wasting much of the energy, once the battery is full you can't feed it back to the grid.
The electrician found a way to connect the house while keeping the FIT. We're considering and evaluating atm.
@@OffGridGarageAustralia That still won't change the fact that once the battery is full, the house will have minimal load during the day, you can't export so the energy will be wasted, oversizing a solar array is really just wasted money. I have 8kW solar system, It produces per day about 50kWh in summer and 30kWh in winter how can you use this much energy without exporting it?
@@uksa007 I'm still connected to the grid and will be at lest until 2028 when the contract runs out. I have to consider if I stay connected for exactly this purpose of exporting excess energy or going completely off-grid. I guess I will have to make the decision when the contract runs out to see what the market is like then.
My point is that until 2028 excess energy from a larger solar array would be largely wasted, and installing the arrays on the sheds where there is lots of shading is also not great. After 2028 you may be better off replacing(for bigger panels)/installing more panels on the house where there is less shading and you will be able to export the excess. With FIT's very low currently there is little benefit in installing a larger array that produces more energy than can you use. Work out how much energy you are using per day and size the array to match!
oh yeah lg chem battery recall fyi
You can install 3 panels in series, the MPPT 150V limitation is for on load not Voc thus you will be at 128-132V.
No, the limitation on the MPPT input is for Voc. And the voltage also goes up when it gets colder.
3 panels would not fit on my roof in one vertical row as I have them now. And having one panel on the next row is not ideal because of the shading.
Someone here already mentioned that the Victron MPPTs can handle it (but certainly not recommended) and the installer has taped off a section of one panel for a few months until the first degradation of the panels is over and the overall Voc is a bit lower.
All not ideal.
The new panels will have 49.5Voc and the old panels have only 35Voc, so that's almost the same voltage anyway when combining 2 in a string or 3 in a string.
My county inspector showed up in southern Nevada and had no idea what he was looking at... this was 9 years ago, 3kw of solar on poles, outback charge controllers, Pb acid cells, and a 4kw trace inverter with no power poles or grid connection. He didn't believe me till I took him in the house and ran the microwave turned on all the lights and ran the propane heater...lol 😂😆 ... Spent the next two hours explaining how everything works, he actually wanted to set his own system up in his cabin... He almost forgot to sign my final inspection form 😋😋😋
Haha, great. I guess they learned now and know better by now. Lots of people running batteries these days and lots of regulations are now applying.
Gratuliere! 3 Sticker aufpicken und ein so ein Ground-Warn-Dings-Kastl montieren und alles ist konform! Ist doch ein super Outcome! Und ganz ehrlich - diese depperten Abstandsregeln bei den Solarpanels erscheinen ja völlig willkürlich! Doppelter Abstand vom Dach zur Seite! Wem fällt denn sowas ein und vor allem: was hat der geraucht? Naja, aber wenn Du natürlich mit neuen Panelen auch den erforderlichen Abstand einhalten kannst, die KWp nach oben schrauben kannst und das sogar noch gefördert kriegst: go for it! Du kannst mit dem doch sicher reden, dass Du ihm die Panels abkaufst und Du das Zeugs alles selbst installierst und er das dann „abnimmt“… (?)
🤔 Feels like the teacher is asking for confirmation from the student and then also allows himself to be bribed 😉
I see you are going through what I did when I was thinking about what inverters/mppt to get. I went with Growatt only because they can handle 450 volts 30 amps on there mppt controls built in and have 100 amp chargers at 48 volts with 5k inverter. I wanted Victron or Schneider. Schneider is best there is for USA. To get what Schneider it would have been $16,000. I went with Growatt and spent $2400 to get a good system not the best though. Money is money and we must do what we can afford.
Yes, absolutely. The new panels will provide the best solution as I cannot replace the cracked panels and would end up with a lot less power from these roofs.
Your battery bank looks beautiful in its display case.
Did the electrician say or know why there needs to be this clearance all around on the edges? I mean what purpuse does it serve from a safety point of view? Seems like a very weird rule to me.
Here in Germany we also still have some weird regulations, e.g. 1.25 m clearance to a "protective fire wall", meaning there would be 2.5m lost of best usable roof space for a semi-detached house. And this is only for the glas-foil modules. If it were glas-glas modules it would be only 0.5m, 1m respectivly. Which is still weird in my opinion, but hey..
In my opinion the last thing to catch on fire in any event will be the pv-panels themselves
It has to do with wind load on the panels. It's one of the regulations when installing solar.
HI Andy, I am Busy "Upgrading" my current install, BUT, I have found that if there is an SMA PV inverter on your bus you will have problems controlling it. I am removing mine as I am only able to use it in the morning there after once my batteries are full there is not enough load to keep the inverter under control.... So, 1: I am missing out on available solar, 2: Frequency shifting the SMA does not work to well with the Victron, There are a few PV solar inverters that work with the Victron stuff but SMA is not one of them.... The long and short is. I am missing out on about 850W worth of energy that I could use to power stuff but, I am with the new upgrade going to go over to a full DC install, my Victron will now have to work a bit harder but that is it... Congrats on the certificate!
Totally can see your German-ness when it comes to the excitement and worry of being conform to regulation, Andy. 😂 Danke für deine Videos und LG nach Australien.
It might be cheaper to buy a slightly bigger shed & build it over the old one 😂
Ahrgh, maybe not. All council regulations and builder costs PLUS the solar...
First I would like to say that I am a little troubled about the number of people that write to you in German. Private notices may be ok but this video channel is meant to be for every body I believe so please every body write in English. English is not just the langue from England but is universal these days. It is not my native langue either. I am Danish. I can understand some German but it is hard and I am sure most other cant easily either.
Secondly of cause it is easier to get it professionally installed and may avoid any insurance problems you may get should your house burn down for what ever reason. As you know insurance companies like to save money so they may grab to any reason for not paying. In my opinion with do it your self keep it apart from what is really valuable. Your garage you probably can afford to replace your self but your house?
Also with everything you do think of your public liability. If any body gets hurt from what you do then you and not your insurance is liable unless you can prove other ways. It can be a big legal fight.
If nobody complains and nobody get's hurt my belief is that you can get away with a lot here in Australia but the law's are there to protect other people - and the insurance company.
Personally I have all my off grid on my farm and use the plug in version of things like you plug in a generator. Permanently connected is more restricted with rules and laws.
Thanks for your great comment. I totally agree with you here and can only support what your wrote.
I also have a disclaimer on my channel that all I do is for testing purposes and for making these videos People always need to check with their own local rules, regulations and standards when doing electrical work.
Thanks Andy, as always.
Great stuff.
Compliance with all the myriad regulations seems to be getting more and more complex, and regulations are certainly sometimes flawed - as happened with rooftop isolators in Australia, which caused numerous fires. Thank goodness that one eventually went away, but not before probably hundreds of thousands were installed, which are an ongoing fire risk.
No roof top isolators any more, thankfully. But they still require a string disconnect on the roof which is accessible in case of an emergency. This can now be a dedicated MC4 connection though. Still 🤦♂️
@Andi, just enlarge your roof space by adding 20 cm ? of corrugated sheet iron on each side and you're done ;-)
That would involve a builder. They cost money too.
Don't forget you applied sturdy German standards for your AU system, so what is wrong?
Just some small things what needs upgrading, nothing major thankfully.
I'd be really interested to see you do an AC coupled inverter in this system, it would negate your concern around the VOC and diversify your charge solution as well. Victron has an document called the factor 1.0 rule that is a good explanation of the limitation but also puts you on the right track to set it up in the first place
We have a system with both DC and AC charge sources on a 45kwh battery, the AC coupling is awesome when attaching large strings and its cheap in install costs
Coming soon...
The charging with parallel strings is per design due to the shading. Going higher in voltage and panels will only make it worse. This is now the best efficiency.
Regards the earthing, I was under the same impression as Andy,ie earth to the same point as the building, but if you get a dc fault on the roof that dc voltage will be present on the earth cable and thus make your earthed appliances and metal work live with the DC voltage, not good, so a separate earth point would be the answer, what did the electrician say about the earth bonding?
No, that's not true if a proper Earth ground rod or two is installed. All metal parts should have 0 potential to Earth, always.
Earth bonding does what it says on the tin. It bonds the equipment or structure to ground so that the bonded equipment cannot become “live”.
No, all of the bonded grounding system (Earth ground) would be at the same ground potential. An issue arises if two separate ground points are used as there can be a difference between the two grounds that will result in a voltage potential.
Put two copper rods in the ground 40' apart and you're likely to read a voltage between them.
He's looking into it.
@@Stephen2846 hi, yes I agree/understand about having different potential between the two earth points, but we are not talking about a mains fault to ground but a DC fault to ground, I can understand why they need the dc/ground fault alarm is needed, It’s an interesting situation having mains and DC in the same installation, I can see why “Normal” electricians wouldn’t look at an off grid installation.
Congrats to the successful inspection. With new modules and 14kWp you need anyway new MPPT. The Victron RS have 450V for longer strings and a galvanic isolation between the modules and the battery.
Thank you. I will keep the existing 150/70 and get two 150/60 for the other two roofs. The RS MPPTs are for higher string voltages which don't make sense in my situation due to the shading.
Leave your panels where they are Andy, they are fine. If you feel you must comply with paternalistic regs, just shuffle them in a bit.
Why not build a solar carport structure (no corrugated steel, just PV) over the gravel area next to the shed, it seems to get less shade than any of your roofs anyway.
You cannot just build a carport structure out of panels. This all needs approval and a builder as well and cost $$$. It's not the Wild West here...
Hi Andy.
The Victron charge control is very robust and I’ve never had a problem keeping them happy as long as the you are below the OCV of the control. I’ve put them at several remote locations and they are rock solid. The panels are new and rated at 59.62 volts each (148.86 per string). Even with the batteries at a full state of charge (no load) and having experienced many “cloud edge effect” cycles, not a problem. During the first few months most panels degrade notably before leveling off. One installer had another major brand charge control that would occasionally fault due to over voltage from cloud edge effect. His remedy was to slightly cover a cell in the string and six months later removed it. Problem solved and absolute maximum long term charge was realized.
Yeah, that is a consideration worth. It will be just at the border of Voc for these controllers. The other problem is, I would need to connect three panels in series. They would not fit in one above each other, so I have to set them up in 2 rows above and one next to it. That will be tricky with the shading and could be less efficient.
I sure hope it's robust. Victron is 2x the cost of everything else.
@@randybobandy9828
Yes, but get what you pay for. At least in charge controllers, I can’t speak for inverters or their others stuff. The amount of power made through the range is amazing from a Victron charge controller. Most other mpp brands only make the best power towards the top end of the OCV rating. Victron makes power much earlier and more efficient, hence much less heat from the unit. The app is easy to use and has the right settings. Very rarely do you hear of a Victron running amuck to the point of damaging a bms then the cells. A cheap charge control throwing pulses can and do bust anything connected to them.
I got the same Hyundai panels, 6 of them. Still have to install them.
I'm testing them at the moment...
Finally u got it done. Lol. By the way the spd correct way to connect is Fuse,MCB, SPD again MCB and use a different earth rod for spd. I have used a 16mm earth wire bcz of the distance.
Now only the video about the bms calibration video of heltec is missing. U never got through to tell us what the email from heltec said. Thanks.
That totally depends on local regulations.
The Heltec video will come at some point, just not enough time
@@OffGridGarageAustralia I asked a SPD manufacturer he gv me that this was the best method. Yes local regulations could be different.
BTW, I bought 24 Solar Calibrators (Spatz?), can you make a video on how to properly perform the calibration? Please? ;-)
I'm sure I'm going to mess up a few, so I purchased enough to make sure I get my 2 arrays set properly!
Hahaha, great. Yeah, sometimes you need two or three to make it work.
Not sure what the TH-cam algorithm would do, if I show this on the channel in all details 😁🍺
Andy you might want to check out the victron 450/100 or 450/200
Won't be great in my system due to the shading.
It's per design to have many parallel strings.
👍👍👍👍
surf OUTBACK POWER PV GROUND-FAULT DETECTOR INTERRUPTER 80 AMP 150VDC SINGLE POLE PANEL MOUNT or similar price 80-100$
I like how it just rolls off their tongue "replace your panels". The diy for you is to figure it all out. 😄
Great video.
Note to future Andy... You will not have enough solar energy during the coming winter solstice sun, you will most likely find yourself installing more panels elsewhere....
Also, I'm having trouble with understanding the purpose of the ground fault black box...
Having something beep and blink an led seems kinda pointless considering how much that thing costs....
If it could shut down the system... Then that's different... I would think that if high voltage DC got passed the charge controllers, the batteries BMS would disconnect from over voltage... I don't know how the inverter would behave in an over voltage situation...
My xing Ping inverter love's to complain when the voltage is too low and even shut down it's output until someone came to restart it again... I have not read the manual to see if it has over voltage protection also built in... If it has, then what's the point of this expensive little box?
If high voltage got passed the charge controllers, then they would have to be fried chicken and reporting information to my tablet inside my house would stop and possibly everything else and I would know that there's a problem... An emergency hard shutdown will follow and the multimeter and thermal camera comes out....
If this happened to you! What would you do? How would you handle this situation? Would you get bitten by a live earth? Or would you do exactly what I have said earlier?
Call it a war game and be honest with yourself a run through a scenario... Will you fail your own test or will you pass?
Do it. That much solar would be awesome.
Next week, my friend!
Don't worry, not only in Australia you are able to face such a funny situation. In Italy it's the same thing. Oh Man, da wirst Du wahnsinnig! This lack of competence.
So, in AU they don´t use solar panels mounted on a steel structure to cover parking lots? Or do they have to use a roof beneath the solar panels? What a great work you have done, also a bit scary due to the power involved. Your video on connecting the inverters is very enlightening. Thanks for sharing!
Here in N.C USA the DC of the solar needs its own ground. But the AC side only bond only in main panel. then grouped in all other not bonded to the Nature Some places it is different The idea is if it is bonded in the sub panel then you can back feed on the ground. Good luck
I think do the professional Way, so you have the electricity for cheap and you can continue the test on the side
Take the money!
I'm not sure how the regulations are in Australia, but in Germany, you could also ground one of the battery poles intentionally with ground and stick to the same safety guidelines as you do with the AC system (TN-C and TN-S), like over-current and short-circuit protectors to circuit-break when ground shorts occur. The L, N and PE (TN-S) PEN (TN-C) for AC are simply renamed to L+, L-, PE (TN-S) and PEL (TN-C) for DC. This is quite new to the VDE standards.
Almost the same standards down here with AS3000 being similar to VDE0100. I think grounding your battery is only necessary in RVs and boats but not really beneficial in a stationary installation.
@@OffGridGarageAustralia It's not a matter of "beneficial" to a certain application, it's simply to design a system to ensure, voltages to ground stay below harzadeous levels (direct and indirect body connections). How you achieve it, does not matter, but you need to ensure, that safety measures stay in place an this could be sometimes "tricky" to ensure. Simply ask yourself when I go with an isolated DC-System and one rail connects to ground unintentionally, are my safety measures still working? Is it detected? Do all (touchable) metal parts stay always safely below 120 VDC and 60 VAC? Does it get detected and the system gets switched off. If this first unintentional gounding is not leading to this problem and not reported to the user, but a second failure creates undetected hazardeous voltages, does this then switch off the system? There is a reason, why VDE strongly asks for two isolation levels, enforced isolation or other measures to ensure safety for the user.
@@the78mole I have a floating system at the moment. If one of the DC potentials get in contact with ground, nothing will happen. There would be no high potential or dangerous voltage. If the second DC will connect to ground, it will create a short and the installed safety devices will trigger.
The new ground fault alarm device will monitor this and set off an alarm if one of the DC potentials gets in contact with ground. That's a requirement with solar and none-isolated MPPTs and inverters.
@@OffGridGarageAustralia Exactl, with floating PV/Battery, you need a fault alarm device, as you need with an IT-Systen. This is exactly what I was pointing to. And a TN-System would be the alternative without isolation checking device.
Anyone know the logic behind the solar panels closer to edge of roof regulations?
Is it wind uplift on the panels?
PS sounds like that electrician is a professional sales person....
Yeah, it is the wind force on the panels. The higher they are mounted the further away they need from all corners.
@@OffGridGarageAustralia ahh I see. Does seem quite a large distance needed from the edge. Especially given its not that far off the ground. ie some large ground mounted systems would surely not be too much lower and they have no "roof" behind them. Ahh well regs are regs I suppose.
@@mattjayne5231 I would need to extend the roof by around 450mm. And there is no way to do this at the top for example, so three panels in a row does not work any more .
I think I throw my book in the river, STC I never heard of. I will give up doing off-grid and let the electrician to do it, you won't make money when you throw money in the river and that where my book is.
He will love my battery bank connected up to my inverter with car jump leads. 🙈⚡🔥🤪
Go for it Andy, "One small step for a electrician, one giant step for Andy", you will be over the moon about it....
Interesting
$500 AUD per kWp installed, did I get that right ????
Stinking TH-cam un subscribed me!
Not to worry I re subbed.
I wouldn't dare have an expert look at my rats nest of a fire hazard lol
Thanks for sharing and as always keep building 👍
Welcome back!
🥳👏👏👏 congrats 🍻 Dread to think what they would say about my set up 🤭🤭
Mine is a 24V system with just 2 panels and 2 batteries connected to a 3Kw all in one. We are low users in this house tho. I've just got another 12V delivered today, then I'll get another 1 next month, then we'll have 200ah of 24v lifepo4 batteries 🥳
See you next time Andy 👍
Great setup. Makes sense to stay low.
Andy think on your future! It comes time you need more Power and for the half price... Do it! We have JaSolar Half Cut 415W Panels they also good but Schindel Panels the future
Testing the shingled panels right now in the driveway... video is coming...
there can be potential differences in septerate grounds something to be aware of
There is no way the Multiplus can be grid connected - it’s not CEC approved. (Anymore) it makes me sad because I picked it partially due to its approval.
I’ll believe it when I see it as far as getting STC’s on the panels connected to your system.
The STC apply because the panels are connected to approved equipment (Victron MPPTS). The Multiplus II has full approval to be connected to the grid as well as been operated in off-grid installations.
Why don´t you make the roof bigger with a piece of that same steel sheet?
Andy, always loved your DIY projects. We started buying 280ah batteries the same time and I felt we were on the same level. But seeing you thinking about buying new solar panels installed by pros is not DIY. I’d much rather see you struggle rounding up used panels just as I did. It probably make sense financially but where is the fun in that? I’ll always continue to watch your video’s and buy you Beer but I love the DIY. Matt
Thanks a lot for all your support, Matt. DIY has a limit and I feel I have reached this now where I'm uncertain about certain safety related installs like grounding , SPDs,... and also won't be able replace my switchboard for example when we are going to connect the house. This all is not DIY any more.
Andy, conratulation to your inspection results. Until 2028 will this channel probably be called "Andy's Solar production farm".
Yeah, there will be more solar coming. I still have some unused roof space on the house.
I know you wanted to do it all yourself but I think you should have this bit done professionally - plenty of other stuff you can do on your own and video
Yes, exactly. And the price seems fair and great for all these new panels. We will use the old panels for the ground mounted system behind the pool.
@@OffGridGarageAustralia fair enough, it's only going to get worse and more expensive tress grow and workmen prices increase constantly
Have you ever thought of AC-coupling some of your PV with e.g. a fronius primo inverter? Works pretty well and (almost) out of the box with the victron system. Even in an offgrid situation. The Multi then will increase the frequency linearly to regulate the fronius-inverters maximum feed in when the battery gets full.
With this you could also do strings from 80-800 V DC and not be restriced from your MPPTs max Voc. I think the MPPT RS's with up to 450V are to big for your arrays (and also pretty ineffient for a charge controller).
AC-coupling would increase efficiency if the PV-power gets used directly and is not stored first (charing your car or using the hot water system in the future in your house). When always first charging the battery, DC-coupling is more efficient tho. So I would go for a mixed AC/DC PV setup in your case.
@Ando - yeah - a Fronius AC coupled addition would work. I think they are the only company to have worked with Victron to 'tune their violins' regarding frequency, etc.
Also, I think a Smartasolar RS 450/100 (or 200) would work well for Andy. There's lots of features in there for the price - 2 trackers (4 in the 200), isolation between solar & battery, earth fault protection built in. The slightly lower efficiency is a good trade off, I think. I use a 450/100 & I'm very happy.
@@Browneye2566 Refering to the Venus OS manual (2.4), frequency shifting will work with fronius, sma, solar edge and abb inverters at least while also communicating with the venus os. (zero feed in not possible for sma and solar edge, but this is not relevant for off grid).
But inverters of those brands will show up in venus os without the need of an energy meter displaying the inverters power. With such an energy meter you basically can integrate every inverter into a victron system, as long as it shuts down completely at elevated frequency. I don't know any inverter that doesn't do that. For frequency shifting and regulation, the inverter itself need to have that option in its settings.
@@Browneye2566 In Andy's case I would definatly prefer ac coupling, as he is able to switch on loads when the sun is shining to use the pv power directly and also has dc-coupled pv in the mix to prevent a deadlock situation possible when only using ac pv.
Directly consumed pc will always be more efficient as there is only one step of power conversion necessary (DC pv - > ac, then into load) and not 2 (DC pv - > DC battery - > inverting through multiplus, then into load).
As long as you don't need to store pv energy first for later use, dc-coupling requires more steps of conversion and will be less efficient from the whole system's perspective.
But when needing to store pv energy because you can't use it directly, dc coupling all the way. One less conversion(DC pv to ac) and dc to dc battery charging is generally more efficient than ac battery charging.
As a side note: the primo inverters also come with every safety feature that you mentioned previously, can make use of higher pv voltages, also have two mppt trackers, are plug and play and supported by victron.
Yes, this is all in the pipeline. I have a small 1.5kW Fronius here and will use this for test purposes...
Ahahah! The electrician comes in, sees all the apparatus and must have fell on his ass... We already know your system, but I am pretty sure you got a new subscriber there.
I also think you should go ahead and have it professionally installed, if you got those incentives from the state. Specially in this convulsion times where energy are paramount. You will be able to move in your car, you can cook, have a shower and keep your refrigerators running.
You are still my favourite you tube channel by quite a margin now.
Cheers and keep it coming!!!
Thanks a lot Ricardo. Yeah, I think, he was quite impressed with the installation.
I'm really tempted to get the new panels and also connect the house as per his recommendations. That will be a very exciting project.
Australian Standards are overpowered by self interested industry. Andy, fortunately the requirement to have panel isolators on the roof has now been removed. The rest of the world realised long before Australia did that roof isolators are unnecessary and produce an extra failure point. I have 2 adjacent locations on the same grid feed rebate as yours in SEQ 5+8 Kw in panels. By 2028 hopefully the calculations will allow an off-grid independence.
Yes, that is true. The regulations are ridiculous!
The new rules still demand a solar disconnect on the roof but it can be a dedicated MC4 connector now per string which is accessible and marked.
The surge protectors are pretty simple. They are basically just tacked on to the positive, negative, and ground lines. Not in series, not in parallel... just tacked on. Taps off the main wiring. Basically the surge protector handle surges on positive, negative, AND/OR ground and it does it by comparing relative voltages for all configurations. Plus to Neg, Plus to Ground, and Neg to Ground. For the surge protector to work properly you need all three.
If any differential voltage exceeds a certain value, the surge protector attempts to shunt across the differential that is being exceeded in order to limit the voltage. That's it. The surge protector is designed to handle the energy and voltage of a lightning strike nearby. Typically the energy involved is fairly small... still large enough to require a discharge tube of some sort, though. But a strike only lasts a few milliseconds and voltages redistribute within a few tens of milliseconds.
But the problem with lightning strikes is always voltage and that is what the surge protector is designed to deal with. Very high voltages (thousands of volts) can develop... sometimes it is the GROUND itself that surges. In fact, that is usually the case. Even if the current is very low, electronics can't handle high voltages. So that is what the surge protector deals with. It prevents high differential voltages from reaching your charger controllers / solar inverters / etc.
Lightning does not have to actually strike the system to ruin it. It can be as far away as a few hundred feet and still develop high enough voltages to destroy something. So that is what the surge protector primarily deals with.
-Matt
The problem of surge protectors is not how to connect them but how to install them with keeping the ground connection that short as required.
and WHY is the regulation requiring said space per panel?
Thumbs up and subscribed!
This guy...
And I bet he gave you a 100%
Not quite, a few things need upgrading, but it's not too bad...
Great Job! Only minor changes is HUGE!!!
Yeah, I'm glad is is nothing major.
I was wondering about this. Thanks for the update, Andy.
Michael Halt has excellent electrical and grounding videos. I believe he and his group are on the committee that make the codes for US. Free, Educational videos.
Yes, watched them all. I think he's in the UK.
i have an instrument that measures the Earthing in an area so if you have 1 or 2, does not matter.
Another great video & summary of ur thoughts on possible future upgrades Andy. One consideration I am sure u are aware of, is that the solar rebate is being scaled back 10% annually, so the savings through REC’s rebates etc is better done sooner than later. Thanks for all ur great info, always learning new stuff. Cheers
092322/0637h PST 🇺🇸 092322/2337h Brisbane 🇦🇺 Thank you for the update. And why was it necessary for the Electrician’s visit? The rural ordinance, for safety Certification? I didn’t understand that part of it.
I had a glimpse of your PV set up drawing. It disappeared before, I could actually view it to study.
Best wishes. 73s…
I booked the electrician in to check on my system and update what needs to be updated.
I made a dedicated video about the whole setup and explaining the drawing in all details: th-cam.com/video/RrH-mCtJZO8/w-d-xo.html
Thank you, very much for link. This is precious for me. I can imagine the time, the effort and the energy you ploughing into making this video; is unbelievable. Hats off, Andy.
@@sreekumarUSA and making the drawing 😁😁 Yeah it all took a while to get it together, but it's worth it for all my supporters and viewers here on the channel.
You can mount the PV panels right up to the edges if you get a civil engineer to calculate worst case wind loadings and the shed roof strength.
However, this costs money and given that you have to replace a few panels it would be easier to just rearrange and comply with the default code.
It is often frustrating when an owner realises the sheer waste of roof space that is sometimes required for wind effects.
Flat (
There is an option where you can cover all the sites of the roof to the panels and basically make the panels the roof. I looked into this as well, but it would involve a builder and more $$$ towards that. So not worth it in my eyes.
If I install the new panels, they will be fully compliant, new, warranty and have more power than the existing ones. Cost $$$ too, but I have to spend it either way and I find having brand new panels for half the price is currently the best solution.
You get the new panels and someone else can buy the old ones from you.
Check out the Adani 630W bifacials, they are absolutely bonkers.
#STOPADANI
@@OffGridGarageAustralia why?
@@tanishqbhaiji103 Adani is a bad bad company which wants to open huge coal mines here in Australia, destroying precious landscape forever and contributing to further global warming. Against all protests over the last years, they bribe the government to get all the approvals for usage of land and water while landowners don't have a say and get disseized. Not to speak of the traditional owners of this country and their rights.
So, there is a huge movement against Adani. The solar and panel production is just a greenwash of their dirty business elsewhere.
Have a look on Twitter under #stopadani or google it.
@@OffGridGarageAustralia I am in India and they are the best Indian manufacturer and finding a good dealer for anything else is a huge hassle l, so I just have to buy adani. Every company here is equally bad.
That’s a good outcome. No major problems found.
Awesome info & education for us " newbies ". Thanks for sharing with us, sir!
so much shading! time to get the chainsaw out I reckon!
For cracked backside of panels, use neutral white caulk. Put it over the cracks and drag a spatula or scraper to push it in. It's a bit of work, but it will keep the moisture out. I had the same problem.
But then they crack elsewhere and I have to take them down again...
Arc fault detection on the PV side of charge controllers could be a good idea and good clean fun. SPDs not connected yet? (connect to the ground of the solar charge controllers that the SPDs are protecting, they just prevent the PV inputs from going too high voltage.)
I'm not sure if arc fault detection is necessary but I will ask the sparky when he comes back next time.
I know how the SPDs are being installed and connected. The problem is that the earth cable needs to be as short as possible. And mine cannot be that short...
The best experience or the worst experience you've ever had. I wood call it the best. The pain of someone pointing out your mistakes is far outweighed by the knowledge. An earth fault shuts my system down. The biggest thing I have is MC4 connectors being old and not water tite. Another great video!!!
Thank you. Yeah, I'm glad, I did it and have a clear direction now.
Hi Andy
Love the video this has opened big can off worms about EARTHING and sorry to say you are wrong and most off the people that think the same. Lets look at the house EARTH it is at 240V POTENTIAL and is calculated for a breaking current off how many power points lights and other utility's you have so for example average house minimum is at 80A in at 240V (here in Australia). Now on that it is calculated size for the EARTH and as per AS3000 ruling for that you need 16mm cables to the house for supply now the minimum EARTH cable is 6mm to safely handle the breakdown current as you use more current over 80A so does the breakdown current goes up hence bigger EARTH is needed and also cables to the house.
Now as for battery's you have POTENTIAL in your case for example is 55-60VDC but current as you have 3 banks each with 200A fuses you have now 600A. To brake that current now you need bigger EARTH which will be now maybe 2 or 3 EARTH stakes in line and probably use 50mm EARTH cable to protect the system. Also your rack and plates on the wall will have to be EARTHED with same cable, what comes out off your inverter is different you protect it via 240V EARTH but battery's need separate protection to handle this big CURRENT and as you can see the house EARTH stake is not enough for that system also your EARTHS will need to be labeled accordingly. I hope this will answer some questions on different EARTHING on different SYSTEMS.
The electrician is currently looking into this. It seems the grounding is sufficient. Each battery bank has a 200A BMS, that is correct but the main breaker/isolator for each bank is only 100A, set to 80A.
The house has its won earth stake so is separate from the garage.
Andy can you let us know how this electrician intends to connect house to batteries using existing underground cables while retaining feedin tarrif, or does it mean can do that later once feedin tarrif goes and then use existing cables? I thought a previous video and installer convinced it couldn’t be done within existing feedin rules (I think due to the common pen cable?).
Yes, I will as soon as I have all the information. Very interesting project...
For the surge protector, yes it got to be connected in PARRALEL to plus and minus BUT it has to be placed correctly, let's say you got a wire underground (from panels to the inverter), coming from the wire to the panels 1-Surge protector, 2-Fuse, 3-Breaker/Isolator ..... this way you protect panels from a current/voltage spike AND you can easily change your fuse or surge by interupting the panels.. On the inverter side... wire coming FROM the panels you got to have 1- Breaker/isolator, 2-Surge protector, Fuse, this way you can isolate the system from the panels.
Seen from the line the surge protector is after the "switch"... then before everything else, this way you can isolate it if needed.
Well .. that's how i see it.
Ground should be at the same potential, even if house is 20m from shed ... same ground.
But those are for security, i do not get it .. in yuor country you got what ? regalatio.... regul... relagation ? What does it mean ..? ;D
Hence I want the sparky to deal with that. It's beyond DIY...
Wow. Great to hear. I was biting my nails when you booked him in! Thanks for humbly sharing. I learnt something about ground alarm. Get the new panels.
Yeah, me too. I wanted a clear direction an what to do next and what needs to be changed. The new panels are very tempting!
what about building a Voltage Limiter? Say 140volts so that you can put 3 panels in series? I want to see this as I have the same issue, but 250Volts.
Also, and I'm not a proponent of taking healthy tress down... but what about trimming or removing trees shading the roofs?
The trees are 40m high. Trimming would cost me several thousands of $$$. And it would look sh!t. We bought this place especially because of the trees.
I made a video about the shading and why I'm going to work around the issue.
I think you should top most of your trees...
Hi Andy. I have a newish 250 v Victron mppt s😅lar controller which I don’t need. I am going to smaller controllers. Great that you will have plenty of power for the Tesla. André in Sydney
I cannot use the 250V MPPTs because of the shading. I will keep several strings in parallel to have better performance. It is more cabling effort but the output is higher as well.
Well done Andy.Great video and thank you for sharing. Best wishes Jason from Melbourne Victoria.
Thanks 👍
Mach es! Kauf die Module 🤩!
Es gibt übrigens noch einen Laderegler von Victron mit 450V 😉 ist sehr komfortabel und erspart die ollen Stringboxen.
Longer strings don't make sense when you have shading. Parallel is far better ins such a situation.
Wow the Austrailian rules are crazy !
Yes, they are totally nuts!
i see a spat incomming lol (hyundai)
When building an “off-grid” solar installation (besides insurance items), the owner is king of his castle. When (hybrid) connected to the grid one must meet off course the regulations. However “off-grid” is private and only the owner is the boss. Grounding solar-panels/roof construction is a questionable…all solar panels are dubbel isolated and grounding the construction on the roof increase the risk of lighting strike. Also it can be argued the grounding could be a risk regarding safety. Great channel Andy!!
Beste groet, Peter
Hi Peter. unfortunately many people do think that way and could do whatever they want on their property.
This is not the case though and the same regulations, rules and standards apply for off-grid as grid connected installations. Hence I want to get some installations, which are not DIY any more, installed professionally.
Hi Andy, thanks for your reaction. May I say “we agree to disagree”. My property is private and not public, so rules and regulations are strictly drawn up by the master (yours truly). My off-grid is not a hazard for the community, perhaps only to me? Further I am an electrician with a mind of my own. But further a harmless guy…. Keep up your splendid channel!! BR Peter
und ich dachte schon es wäre nur hier bei uns so stringend. Jede Wattstunde zählt, mit oder Erlaubnis. Regards aus D.
Well done! Glad everything bar the panels passed with flying colours!
Does not look too bad, so I'm relieved.
If your carport is part of the same roof can't you slide the panels down to give you room at the top
Not really, this was just how the electrician was interpreting the situation. If we can really consider the installation as such, I'm not sure. I'll see what we can do. I also need access to the gutter which would be under the panels then.
solar credit things are dumb. However, that deal is hard to pass-up. I'd probably go for it myself.
Yeah, I agree the system itself is not very smart. I'm still doing the numbers but it's hard to find any alternatives, considering the cracked panels I have on the roof.
It's the question if he gains something by being very strict. When off-grid why care?
The same rules apply for grid connected as well as off-grid.
"German? You get an auto pass."
please be careful ive had ppl i know (not me) got screwed buy the solar selling ppl, ,, they say one thing and do some thing alse,,i my self will never use a solar seller/installer,, ill do it my self,, thats just me
He's not a solar selling person, he's an installer.
Most electrical work is not DIY though, hence I have a disclaimer on my channel.
I'm so happy for you it worked out so well.
Always enjoy it. Learning something new again. I'm afraid to have mine inspected
Most DIY stuff is not DIY stuff and needs proper installation. As I have reached that size of my system, it was time to get this all sorted.
to bwe truely compliant you have to spend 400 bucks to get the new regs (book)
bwe?.... (be) sorry
I am sure the electrician learned a lot 😀.
You are an inspiration.
Cheers from Germany!
He definitely learned a lot about the battery and BMS setup as he has not seen that before. So win-win situation.
The shadow dimension increases as the object moves closer to the light source. Big shadow big shade ✌️👁️👁️👍
My utility installed new 9 meter tall utility poles for the low cost of $200.00 USD each. It took them minutes. I believe solar pv modules should be placed high with spacing to create 40-60% shade. The landscape health increase contrasted with undesirable heat gain of surface installation speaks volumes.
Live your dream !
It is unclear toe what the primary motivation was for the inspection. To ensure compliance when you connect the house.....or some other reason
I believe I pointed this out in the video and in the video description.
It is a DIY project and I wanted to ensure the compliance and safety of the system as it grows bigger and bigger now. I also had some questions about certain aspects of grounding and the solar installation on the roof (cracked panels, grounding, SPDs,...).