I have a Northstar and yes, they are what I tell people is "tippy".... or "playful". Tippy for new canoe folks, playful for experienced. But it DOES matter. I would not want to put a first time canoer in my Northstar Phoenix. But a Wenonah, or many others, sure. New canoers really appreciate a SOLID initial stability. The video touched on the benefits of the Northstar hull design as it pertains to side waves though. The canoe is more apt to allow side waves (or boat wakes) to roll under the canoe, as opposed to tipping the canoe as the canoe tries to ride the "flat" of any wave angle. That initial stability of a more Wenonah design can actually become an issue in these situations, more so with new paddlers. And then you get "looks". I truly love the classic looks of a Prospector style canoe, and Northstar is like a "modern" interpretation of that in many ways. But there are other brands that nail that look, like Swift. And honestly it was a tossup for me between getting the Northstar Phoenix or the Swift Prospector. And no, they are not the "same", but where my heart is with visuals and use. I went with the Northstar. And frankly it was because I could get one local (dealers pay attention to this please). But I might very well have went with the Swift if they were both available side by side. That said, I am NOT disappointed with my purchase. It's a fantastic canoe. And she gets compliments every time I take her out. Cheers.
Thanks for contributing your experience and thoughts. We don’t see many Swifts out West but I like how passionate they are about what they do and it seems they are always trying something new-which can be good and bad (hard for dealers to hold stock and be current). My main eyebrow raise is the use of Epoxy in their builds. Strong for sure but less desirable to work with at the factory and personal repair level (I don’t want to have to use epoxy every time I touch up or repair). UV protection with epoxy more difficult (they say they have a UV guard but not sure if that is just the outside coat or an addition to the Epoxy). I feel that Northstar’s classic look is timeless and classy. Helps hold value over time. A BlackLite boat holds its relevant look. Love the wood trim against carbon too! I’m going to get in some of their boats and film at some point. I feel the Flashfire and Wildfire are largely improved by the Firebird and Phoenix (sold my wildfire and Flashfire consequently). Prospectors are great until the wind blows but I see a place for a fuller solo prospector for many and would love a bigger volume NW Solo or Phoenix hybrid for some folks. I love though that Swift, Wenonah and Northstar are all carrying the torch of performance canoes and exquisite workmanship and blending of beauty and techy brawn. Anyone who has the luxury of owning any of them is winning in my book!!
@@HappyPaddlin All great points. Indeed. And yes, a Prospector will be less forgiving in the wind for sure. But I grew up in a time where most canoes were anyways. LOL I am working on restoring a 16' tandem Lincoln from 1970 that I first got out on the water with when growing up. Enough said, right? ;) But the stability of a Prospector is great and they are awesome sheltered waters/windy small rivers boats. It is mainly what I like to do. And their stability is great for photography... my Phoenix... not so much. LOL But I still love it, and the Lincoln will (when finished) be my photography platform canoe. On another note, I love catching your videos. Keep up the great work. Cheers!
Very well explained. I felt like my clipper tripper was more of the Wenonah feel, would you agree with that? Definitely a whole different experience when I upgraded to the black light Polaris. Both were great boats and the clippers served me really well when I was starting out and learning. Ultimately it was the ability dance with the Canoe that drew me to the Northstar.
Great video! The reason your videos are so good is because you explain everything so well whether someone is a beginner or a seasoned paddler. Even though we all know you prefer Northstar, your presentation is very diplomatic and complementary to both companies. I’ve owned a Wenonah Solo Plus (in Royalex), and now 1999 Bell Magic and a Northstar Northwind 17. Tons of solid information and I can’t recommend this video enough to friends who ask me the difference between the two. Thanks again very much for this video! See you on the water…
Wenonah has so many fast and straight race-inspired hulls and stable touring and fishing hulls, yet large gaps between them. Northstar seems to fill those gaps and are more well-rounded canoes. If you want to be the first across the lake or haul a month's worth of supplies through whitecaps Wenonah has you covered, so long as you don't want to do both at the same time. Personally I prefer the versatility of Northstars. Every design is a compromise, no canoe can be everything to everybody. But Northstar has done a really good job of making the compromises that make the most sense for most people, IMO.
Thanks for this! I've found that many paddlers who love the dynamic feel of a touring kayak or ww kayak (edging, carving, etc) really "get" what Northstar is doing in their designs. For many, the bucket seats and Wenonah designs make for a great match. Once I felt the dynamic nature of a Northstar/Bell design I just had a hard time going back to the the 4-legged chair feel of many Wenonah Canoes.
I had a Wenonah Escapade, which was a nice boat. I soloed it also from a center seat I added. However, when using in tandem there were only a couple family members who could paddle in the bow. Most found it too tippy. I sold it and got a Northstar Northwind 17. Much more stable for my wife and grandkids. I added a kneeling thwart for the center but my old knees said no way. To solo I use an Old Town Pack, 12 ft in Royalex.
Aware and sometimes discuss that explanation, but find that most people’s eyes roll to the back of their head when you go there. Trying to dance a line here.
Any idea why Oregon dealers don’t sell Canadian brands like Nova Craft and Swift? Just saw Nova Craft’s new solo Prospector 14 at Canoecopia. It would be great if you could delve into aspects of the Canadian boats and what makes a prospector different for example. Thanks for all your insights!
There was a distributor/rep out of Idaho about 10-14 years back that did Nova Craft but no longer. The challenge is that you really have to have full loads on a specialty canoe hauler. I heard Swift just takes the business as direct sales and assembles about 10-15 canoes and then ships them themselves direct to customers. That of course puts them in competition with the dealer network out here so that’s a turn off to them. Can be considered a profitable tactic if you only have a small amount of canoes sold. Canoe biz is not as big as it is out East as well. There are other business aspects here as well. (Exchange, etc) Will try to comment/review on this in a future vid. In the end, this prospector is a old but versatile design. Kind of a jack of all trades, a master of none. If I’m really focusing on River running, I’m going to get some thing with even more focus toward that and for flatwater there are definitely better choices for glide. But the versatility has made those types of designs popular for years (plus Bill Mason’s endorsement).
Is it true that Northstar canoes are resin coated while Wenonah are gel? Curious to hear your thoughts on the pros and cons of both. Learned a lot from you video!
Both are skin (resin) coated. You can still get gel coat on Wenonahs I believe (ie colored models). NS doesn’t use gel coat at all any longer but does colored poly inlays like ruby red or emerald green. Gel Just adds weight w/o strength and is hard to repair and can spider/chip. It is thicker so you have this thicker layer of abrasion (theoretically) but that’s not how it works. You don’t just scratch a canoe…you bump it too. Under a “bump/glancing impact” it is my experience that gel coat just chips or spiders to easily. With a resin coat, you have a bit more flexibility that can be built into the resin (especially in IXP) and of course shed weight. If you take deep gouges, they are easy to reapply with a resin touch up kit from northstar for ~ $30. (I have a vid on that on the channel) Over strapping gel can lead to long compression spider cracks too. I was thrilled that NS stopped using it. Clear gel was especially a pain bc little air bubbles were hard to avoid. If you need durability, go IXP…it’s an unbelievable lamination that has me with no need for Royalex/T-Formex. 😃🛶
Please help me. Ive narrowed down my purchase to either a Wenonah Boundary Waters or the Northwind 17. I am a new canoeist that will primarily solo rivers and lakes equally. I am 350lbs and plan to carry at least 250lbs of gear and an additional paddler on occasion at about another 250. Stability is number 1 priority and 2. Is ease of paddling. 3. Is cargo capicity. Thanks!!!!!
Welcome to solo canoeing! Are you going to solo from the center? Or offset your position with gear? What lay-up are you considering? If sitting in center you should speak with either vendor about that set up and anything they would recommend for custom layup in the center since it is not configured for this standard. Stability…a changing variable based upon your “time in boat” , skill set and type of conditions. This is not a static figure. It relates to you and the boat. If someone gives you a short answer here they are trying to close a quick sale. I need more info and more time talking to you and seeing you paddle. Hope you have a good shop nearby. They are going to be a great resource for you. If not, I need lots more info and time with you on water to make an ideal recommendation. But, if you want my fast recommendation I’m going to say go Northstar. But I bet you could have guessed that :) 😁🛶
Hi, I'm a bass fisherman, which canoe would you recomend. A canoe for two people and a Labrador Retriever. Also maybe 30% of the time or less, I'll be fishing solo with my Lab. Thanks
so i have a 80 pound lab, i'm guesing the wenona would make the dog happier. i have a 16 foot penobscot and she really tries to hang off to the side and is always unsettled.
Ya gotta have a very comfy pad for your doggie that they know was their place! I like to solo with them fist keeping than right next to me. Then I can teach them the ways to chill out and reward them for this behavior.
I have a Northstar and yes, they are what I tell people is "tippy".... or "playful". Tippy for new canoe folks, playful for experienced. But it DOES matter. I would not want to put a first time canoer in my Northstar Phoenix. But a Wenonah, or many others, sure. New canoers really appreciate a SOLID initial stability.
The video touched on the benefits of the Northstar hull design as it pertains to side waves though. The canoe is more apt to allow side waves (or boat wakes) to roll under the canoe, as opposed to tipping the canoe as the canoe tries to ride the "flat" of any wave angle. That initial stability of a more Wenonah design can actually become an issue in these situations, more so with new paddlers.
And then you get "looks". I truly love the classic looks of a Prospector style canoe, and Northstar is like a "modern" interpretation of that in many ways. But there are other brands that nail that look, like Swift. And honestly it was a tossup for me between getting the Northstar Phoenix or the Swift Prospector. And no, they are not the "same", but where my heart is with visuals and use.
I went with the Northstar. And frankly it was because I could get one local (dealers pay attention to this please). But I might very well have went with the Swift if they were both available side by side.
That said, I am NOT disappointed with my purchase. It's a fantastic canoe. And she gets compliments every time I take her out. Cheers.
Thanks for contributing your experience and thoughts. We don’t see many Swifts out West but I like how passionate they are about what they do and it seems they are always trying something new-which can be good and bad (hard for dealers to hold stock and be current). My main eyebrow raise is the use of Epoxy in their builds. Strong for sure but less desirable to work with at the factory and personal repair level (I don’t want to have to use epoxy every time I touch up or repair). UV protection with epoxy more difficult (they say they have a UV guard but not sure if that is just the outside coat or an addition to the Epoxy).
I feel that Northstar’s classic look is timeless and classy. Helps hold value over time. A BlackLite boat holds its relevant look. Love the wood trim against carbon too!
I’m going to get in some of their boats and film at some point. I feel the Flashfire and Wildfire are largely improved by the Firebird and Phoenix (sold my wildfire and Flashfire consequently). Prospectors are great until the wind blows but I see a place for a fuller solo prospector for many and would love a bigger volume NW Solo or Phoenix hybrid for some folks.
I love though that Swift, Wenonah and Northstar are all carrying the torch of performance canoes and exquisite workmanship and blending of beauty and techy brawn. Anyone who has the luxury of owning any of them is winning in my book!!
@@HappyPaddlin All great points. Indeed.
And yes, a Prospector will be less forgiving in the wind for sure. But I grew up in a time where most canoes were anyways. LOL I am working on restoring a 16' tandem Lincoln from 1970 that I first got out on the water with when growing up. Enough said, right? ;)
But the stability of a Prospector is great and they are awesome sheltered waters/windy small rivers boats. It is mainly what I like to do. And their stability is great for photography... my Phoenix... not so much. LOL But I still love it, and the Lincoln will (when finished) be my photography platform canoe.
On another note, I love catching your videos. Keep up the great work. Cheers!
Very good comparison and presentation!
I have and have had both. Much prefer the maneuverability and feel of the Northstar canoes.
Excellent video. Thank you for pointing out the differences. In the end its all about how do you want the boat to feel/react.
Very well explained. I felt like my clipper tripper was more of the Wenonah feel, would you agree with that? Definitely a whole different experience when I upgraded to the black light Polaris. Both were great boats and the clippers served me really well when I was starting out and learning. Ultimately it was the ability dance with the Canoe that drew me to the Northstar.
Great video! The reason your videos are so good is because you explain everything so well whether someone is a beginner or a seasoned paddler. Even though we all know you prefer Northstar, your presentation is very diplomatic and complementary to both companies. I’ve owned a Wenonah Solo Plus (in Royalex), and now 1999 Bell Magic and a Northstar Northwind 17. Tons of solid information and I can’t recommend this video enough to friends who ask me the difference between the two.
Thanks again very much for this video! See you on the water…
Good comparison Ethan! Like it..
We love Tumalo Creek! We bought our Eddyline Kayaks there and really enjoy them!
Wenonah has so many fast and straight race-inspired hulls and stable touring and fishing hulls, yet large gaps between them. Northstar seems to fill those gaps and are more well-rounded canoes. If you want to be the first across the lake or haul a month's worth of supplies through whitecaps Wenonah has you covered, so long as you don't want to do both at the same time. Personally I prefer the versatility of Northstars. Every design is a compromise, no canoe can be everything to everybody. But Northstar has done a really good job of making the compromises that make the most sense for most people, IMO.
Thanks for this! I've found that many paddlers who love the dynamic feel of a touring kayak or ww kayak (edging, carving, etc) really "get" what Northstar is doing in their designs. For many, the bucket seats and Wenonah designs make for a great match. Once I felt the dynamic nature of a Northstar/Bell design I just had a hard time going back to the the 4-legged chair feel of many Wenonah Canoes.
Very helpful comparison; thank you.
I had a Wenonah Escapade, which was a nice boat. I soloed it also from a center seat I added. However, when using in tandem there were only a couple family members who could paddle in the bow. Most found it too tippy. I sold it and got a Northstar Northwind 17. Much more stable for my wife and grandkids. I added a kneeling thwart for the center but my old knees said no way. To solo I use an Old Town Pack, 12 ft in Royalex.
I love my BELL Magic heading out shortly for a nice paddle on Lake Wisconsin
as you describe the hull differences....you may want to look into 'Prismatic coefficient'
Aware and sometimes discuss that explanation, but find that most people’s eyes roll to the back of their head when you go there. Trying to dance a line here.
Any idea why Oregon dealers don’t sell Canadian brands like Nova Craft and Swift? Just saw Nova Craft’s new solo Prospector 14 at Canoecopia. It would be great if you could delve into aspects of the Canadian boats and what makes a prospector different for example. Thanks for all your insights!
There was a distributor/rep out of Idaho about 10-14 years back that did Nova Craft but no longer. The challenge is that you really have to have full loads on a specialty canoe hauler. I heard Swift just takes the business as direct sales and assembles about 10-15 canoes and then ships them themselves direct to customers. That of course puts them in competition with the dealer network out here so that’s a turn off to them. Can be considered a profitable tactic if you only have a small amount of canoes sold.
Canoe biz is not as big as it is out East as well. There are other business aspects here as well. (Exchange, etc)
Will try to comment/review on this in a future vid. In the end, this prospector is a old but versatile design. Kind of a jack of all trades, a master of none. If I’m really focusing on River running, I’m going to get some thing with even more focus toward that and for flatwater there are definitely better choices for glide. But the versatility has made those types of designs popular for years (plus Bill Mason’s endorsement).
Is it true that Northstar canoes are resin coated while Wenonah are gel? Curious to hear your thoughts on the pros and cons of both. Learned a lot from you video!
Both are skin (resin) coated. You can still get gel coat on Wenonahs I believe (ie colored models). NS doesn’t use gel coat at all any longer but does colored poly inlays like ruby red or emerald green.
Gel Just adds weight w/o strength and is hard to repair and can spider/chip. It is thicker so you have this thicker layer of abrasion (theoretically) but that’s not how it works. You don’t just scratch a canoe…you bump it too. Under a “bump/glancing impact” it is my experience that gel coat just chips or spiders to easily.
With a resin coat, you have a bit more flexibility that can be built into the resin (especially in IXP) and of course shed weight. If you take deep gouges, they are easy to reapply with a resin touch up kit from northstar for ~ $30. (I have a vid on that on the channel)
Over strapping gel can lead to long compression spider cracks too. I was thrilled that NS stopped using it. Clear gel was especially a pain bc little air bubbles were hard to avoid. If you need durability, go IXP…it’s an unbelievable lamination that has me with no need for Royalex/T-Formex. 😃🛶
Please help me. Ive narrowed down my purchase to either a Wenonah Boundary Waters or the Northwind 17. I am a new canoeist that will primarily solo rivers and lakes equally. I am 350lbs and plan to carry at least 250lbs of gear and an additional paddler on occasion at about another 250. Stability is number 1 priority and 2. Is ease of paddling. 3. Is cargo capicity. Thanks!!!!!
Welcome to solo canoeing!
Are you going to solo from the center? Or offset your position with gear?
What lay-up are you considering?
If sitting in center you should speak with either vendor about that set up and anything they would recommend for custom layup in the center since it is not configured for this standard.
Stability…a changing variable based upon your “time in boat” , skill set and type of conditions. This is not a static figure. It relates to you and the boat. If someone gives you a short answer here they are trying to close a quick sale. I need more info and more time talking to you and seeing you paddle.
Hope you have a good shop nearby. They are going to be a great resource for you. If not, I need lots more info and time with you on water to make an ideal recommendation.
But, if you want my fast recommendation I’m going to say go Northstar. But I bet you could have guessed that :) 😁🛶
Hi, I'm a bass fisherman, which canoe would you recomend. A canoe for two people and a Labrador Retriever. Also maybe 30% of the time or less, I'll be fishing solo with my Lab.
Thanks
Check out the Northstar Pearl. Been using it for just such a use!
@@HappyPaddlin Thanks!!
Nothing compares to a Swift.
Which of your favorites should I try?
so i have a 80 pound lab, i'm guesing the wenona would make the dog happier. i have a 16 foot penobscot and she really tries to hang off to the side and is always unsettled.
Ya gotta have a very comfy pad for your doggie that they know was their place! I like to solo with them fist keeping than right next to me. Then I can teach them the ways to chill out and reward them for this behavior.
The fake French ones are much better.
“Entry line” you showed of the Wenonahs was the stern I think. So not very helpful, at least as a visual. :)
Same both ends, entry/exit. Diamond vs elliptical footprint.