I just changed a motor over in a Crewman for a bloke here in NZL got a real good LEO for 1200$ with everything barr the alternator ,pulled the motor with trans still attached,on start up no rattle and very quiet,ole mate was quoted 7K to change by a workshop here,i charged him 1500$ with new oil and coolant.He had previous been doing 10k oil changes,i have knocked that back to 5k..cheers from the Shakey Isles..
We own a 2007 Omega since 2016 it is also approaching the 300k mark. It is the wife's car so I don't drive it a lot but I do maintain it myself. There were a few issues when we purchased it that have since been rectified. In regards to keeping the engine oil free of crap as much as possible here's two things to do. Firstly use good oil (FYI, I won't use Castrol oil unless there is nothing else and I will change it out asap.) stick with brands like Mobil, Shell, Penrite, Caltex and Valvoline etc. I don't know Bursons brand but it seems Peter has had good success with it. The second thing that these motors suffer from is low inhibitor/coolant level which I believe contributes to the oil having to compensate for the extra heat and therefore creates more crap and sludge in the oil slowing or blocking lubrication to small galleries. I rectified this by making a rubber gasket under the coolant pressure cap so that air cannot get into the system during cool down. The two oring design doesn't work well at all. And use a genuine pressure cap as it's design is different to the after market units which will allow air to enter bypassing the gasket. Since using the gasket over the last two years the system has not had any air in it.
Thanks for the info Roger, I’m also going to try your approach as it makes total sense. I too stick to good oils and have so far found the burson brand to be pretty good. Cheers again. Enjoy.
You will find your primary timing chain on the crank is worn as will be the crank sprocket, be very careful as you have a hand grenade on your hands once it slips links as mine did. You need to do a set of timing chains and change the oil pump while you are in there, an easy but, time consuming job that is money well spent on these cars. 10w 40 is really too high for that engine to oil up the tensioners in that motor, your just putting thicker oil in there to quieten things down at the expense of the tensioners and small orifices that need a more viscous oil - you will end up doing more damage for the sound of a band aid fix, go with a synthetic 10w 30, Gulf Western make a good product after you address the timing chain issue. Just because it is a tedious fix does not mean it should be ignored. Send you a link to the full service GM manual if you need it.
Cheers Glen, at this stage it will do the trick. It is definitely on the cards mate but in the mean time I have a few other projects on the go. I will replace the cam phaser first than tackle the timing chains. Cheers mate.
I have the same issue, the mechanic looked at how many km's my car had done at the time and declared the problem to be my timing belt or chain, whichever this car uses. He quoted me $1900 to change it and I agreed to the price thinking he knows his business. Then I got the car back with the same problem. I still have the rattle in the engine on the first start of each day, I have been reading forums online about Commodore and I believed the problem was some little o-ring somewhere which holds the oil i the top part of the engine so it does not do dry starts, but your rattle is identical to mine so now I do believe it is the cam phaser. Recently I had contact dealer and X service show on my dash, I saw the mechanics they tested the car with their fancy Snap on Tools computer and it said the fuel pump was sending a high signal and also saying the instrument cluster does not match my car which is wrong. I've owned it since it was 6 y.o and have never had errors like this. I was quoted $535 to change the fuel pump and I agreed to pay, I then got the car back with the error codes still there and the fuel guage still not woring, changing the fuel pump did nothing at all.I have had to cop this, I might win with fair trading but I dont want to be black listed in my regional area by the mechanics, they seem to all know each other. I have since left the first mechanic who conned me into the timing belt change which he did say was stretched and it would have possibly been stretched but it really didnt need changing at that point as there was no problem with it, thats the only reason I kept my mouth shut as it wasnt a completely wasted repair but it was still wrong of them. The fuel pump problem with the second mechanic is still current, I was able to clear the error codes with a cheap Ebay OBD2 thing I bought years ago and my fuel guage is now working again, but the errors may come back I don't know. I am going out to the car shortly to see if they came back overnight. I'm wiring this Frieday the 11th of August 2023, fingers crossed they don't come back. Eventually they admitted they had never seen this error before and didn't know whats happening with the car. I called Holden dealers both here and in Sydney and talked to them about the problem and they seemed not to know about it either, even after I told them what the computer at the mechanics was saying. I then called a place named Nammis and spoke to people who repair instrument clusters all day long and specialize in them and they had never seen this problem before, also Holden says they will test the car and charge me $400 to try to find the problem but there is no guaranteee they will find the issue and I will still have to pay they can't find the issue. They then went on to say that they are now very limited to what they can do with Holdens since they left Australia as they get no support from the U.S and thats why this is happening. There was a page on the e Snap on tools computer where there should be solutions to the problem it finds but that page was blank. If anyone has knowledge or experience with these issues and can offer any advice please do, thanks in advance.
Hi there mate, I’ve heard this way too often because it’s a common wear item on these engines it’s the go to diagnosis when you get a rattle, the o-ring is definitely a problem on these engines also and a pain in the backside to replace considering it’s a $2 part. Try holding your foot flat on the accelerator pedal this turns the fuel pump off and while holding it turn the car over. It will turn over and not start. Let it wind over for 10-15 seconds get oil pressure than take your foot off the pedal and start. Bet it doesn’t rattle. Generally if your timing chain is stretched to the point it needs replacing it will throw a a code and will go into limp mode to minimise revving over 3k and snapping the chain which means grenadine the engine. Is what worked for me is the heavier weight oil. In regards to the dash, why not find a cheap wreck and swap it out be a lot cheaper than taking it to the dealer. If it still there it’s a problem elsewhere in the electronics. Cheers.
Thanks for your reply @@petersbackyardbuilds I will try the accelorator suggestion in the morning and other things you outlined, the mechanics are now suspicious of the BCM I think they said (computer) I found a OBD2 scanner thing I bought many years ago once when I got a strange code and can now clear the code and when I do that the car is perfect, it keeps coming back though saying ithat the voltage ont he sender untit is too high, but I am not seeing any coodes like they were saying about the dash not matching hte other parts of my car I'm only seeing the P2068 error
where did you get the fuel pump changed ? are you in Melbourne? my commodore LPG randomly shows engine light checking with OBD2. it said low fuel pressure and some error code. when searched on internet says faulty fuel pump or injector. When engine is hot if i restart vehicle after 10 minutes it takes 7-8 seconds cranking to start but starts cold in just 1 cranking.
hi, @@pankajrana8006 I'm in nsw near Newcastle, you cna find people to repair your car using a site names autoguru you tell them what you want done and the mechanics in your area will contact you with quotes, that is how I had my fuel pump changed and how I got the price of $535 which was cheap compared to another place I asked for a quote.
The biggest issue with these alloytecs is the PCV system mostly on the drivers side, i think Holden eventually fixed it but not sure when If you want to check it an easy way is to remove filler cap with engine running and you should see oil flowing and there should be no vacuum there either
I use Penrite 5w30 full synthetic since new in 2004 now 350000 no problem. It's my work ute and we have both retired, not happy to part with it, properly not worth much.
Hi, is this definitely a cam phase noise? I heard rattling noises on these engines is caused by insufficient oil pressure on initial startup which is fixed by a new oil pump?
Hey, Got an 07 Omega, recently started having this issue especially when cold but never if the motor had been turned on already. Took it for a service/oil change and seemed to fix it for a few weeks. Seems to be back now with a more intense sound. Was told by more mechanically minded mates it was a timing chain issue and am just praying it's an easier fix. Should I flush it out and replace the filter? Was it a permanent fix for you? Cheers.
Hi mate, generally the coming change issue will through a code and the engine light will come on. Can be a number of things. -Oil pickup o ring not sealing -oil filter not correctly installed. As there is a small plastic plunger under in the housing. Lack of oil changes causing sludge buildup. Most times it’s the cam variators pins become worn and don’t lock in causing the rattle until oil pressure is reached. As it gets worse the car will also run really rough. A good engine flush and lighter weight oil fixed my issue. Hope it works for you also. Cheers.
@@Najahhsbsbbsjj did it fix it for you? I got the same issue. in some comments the video maker says he put heavier oil and other comments he says lighter oil, so not sure what I'm suppose to do to.
@@petersbackyardbuilds : So you run diesel oil through the engine? So you drop oil and replace it with diesel oil and let it run for a period of time or are you talking permanently?
Hi Will, I run a 50/50 mix of diesel and oil for about 20 mins. Than drop and replace with fresh oil no diesel replace filter also. The diesel just gives the engine and all the oil ports a good clean. Have also heard some mechanics using kerosene. Cheers mate.
Hi Bob, it’s almost 2 weeks now and it’s not happened since. Starts cold as it should every morning. This is what worked for me - liquid moly engine flush, drive it around for a day or 2, drain replace oil and filter, used BURSONS 10w40 full synthetic oil. Good luck. Cheers.
Just get the o ring of the oil pick up replaced. That’s the right way to fix this problem. I know from experience and lots of money wasted through dogshit mechanics
I'm having the same issue on my Pontiac G8 LY7 - I was using conventional oil and when the weather temperature dropped the engine had a delayed rattle just like this. I switched to a 10w30 synthetic oil and a few days later the rattle has returned, not only is it not an intermittent problem it is happening on every cold start. Do you think the weight of the oil might have something to do with it?
Hi mate, it has worked in my case. Keep in mind that my engine is just under 300000km or 187000miles on it. Check the cam phasers also. Definitely an issue on these motors. Thanks for watching. Enjoy.
Sorry but this Video is really bad advice. The rattle is timing chain slap period, Timing chain rattle can come from a number of things like stretched timing chains, a clogged oil pick up, a bad O ring on the oil pick up, a bad oil pump, cam phasers, bad timing chain tensioners, or blocked oil galeries between the oil pump and the 3 tensioners for the timing chain. It’s also worth mentioning the pcv valve could be blocked and clogging up the oil. Next time you top up your oil after a oil change, you should put some oil in the filter housing to prime the oil pump and spraying brake clean on everything isn’t a great idea either, I noticed you sprayed it on the engine mounts and over the oil filter cap witch would have gotten on the plastic components of the engine bay and some wires like the coolant sensor, Break cleaner is a great product but I would spray it on the rag then clean what you want cleaned. This is my opinion (as you will have yours) take it however you like
@@Najahhsbsbbsjj not necessarily, it would only go into limp mode if it goes more than 20% out of spec, witch would indicate that the timing chain has skipped a tooth
@matpolson4411 I noticed that my timing chain only rattles when the engine hasn't been started for a long time, like over 1 week. If you start the engine everyday or every other day, it starts without issue, but it's only when you let it sit, there is a serious rattle. I once got an engine code for the timing chain after a rough start, which I cleared a while back and hasn't come back since. (235,000km, 10w30).
I just changed a motor over in a Crewman for a bloke here in NZL got a real good LEO for 1200$ with everything barr the alternator ,pulled the motor with trans still attached,on start up no rattle and very quiet,ole mate was quoted 7K to change by a workshop here,i charged him 1500$ with new oil and coolant.He had previous been doing 10k oil changes,i have knocked that back to 5k..cheers from the Shakey Isles..
We own a 2007 Omega since 2016 it is also approaching the 300k mark. It is the wife's car so I don't drive it a lot but I do maintain it myself. There were a few issues when we purchased it that have since been rectified. In regards to keeping the engine oil free of crap as much as possible here's two things to do. Firstly use good oil (FYI, I won't use Castrol oil unless there is nothing else and I will change it out asap.) stick with brands like Mobil, Shell, Penrite, Caltex and Valvoline etc. I don't know Bursons brand but it seems Peter has had good success with it.
The second thing that these motors suffer from is low inhibitor/coolant level which I believe contributes to the oil having to compensate for the extra heat and therefore creates more crap and sludge in the oil slowing or blocking lubrication to small galleries. I rectified this by making a rubber gasket under the coolant pressure cap so that air cannot get into the system during cool down. The two oring design doesn't work well at all. And use a genuine pressure cap as it's design is different to the after market units which will allow air to enter bypassing the gasket. Since using the gasket over the last two years the system has not had any air in it.
Thanks for the info Roger, I’m also going to try your approach as it makes total sense.
I too stick to good oils and have so far found the burson brand to be pretty good.
Cheers again.
Enjoy.
You will find your primary timing chain on the crank is worn as will be the crank sprocket, be very careful as you have a hand grenade on your hands once it slips links as mine did. You need to do a set of timing chains and change the oil pump while you are in there, an easy but, time consuming job that is money well spent on these cars. 10w 40 is really too high for that engine to oil up the tensioners in that motor, your just putting thicker oil in there to quieten things down at the expense of the tensioners and small orifices that need a more viscous oil - you will end up doing more damage for the sound of a band aid fix, go with a synthetic 10w 30, Gulf Western make a good product after you address the timing chain issue. Just because it is a tedious fix does not mean it should be ignored. Send you a link to the full service GM manual if you need it.
Cheers Glen, at this stage it will do the trick. It is definitely on the cards mate but in the mean time I have a few other projects on the go.
I will replace the cam phaser first than tackle the timing chains.
Cheers mate.
Would love to get that link, mate. The shops don't seem to have service manuals anymore
I have the same issue, the mechanic looked at how many km's my car had done at the time and declared the problem to be my timing belt or chain, whichever this car uses. He quoted me $1900 to change it and I agreed to the price thinking he knows his business. Then I got the car back with the same problem. I still have the rattle in the engine on the first start of each day, I have been reading forums online about Commodore and I believed the problem was some little o-ring somewhere which holds the oil i the top part of the engine so it does not do dry starts, but your rattle is identical to mine so now I do believe it is the cam phaser. Recently I had contact dealer and X service show on my dash, I saw the mechanics they tested the car with their fancy Snap on Tools computer and it said the fuel pump was sending a high signal and also saying the instrument cluster does not match my car which is wrong. I've owned it since it was 6 y.o and have never had errors like this. I was quoted $535 to change the fuel pump and I agreed to pay, I then got the car back with the error codes still there and the fuel guage still not woring, changing the fuel pump did nothing at all.I have had to cop this, I might win with fair trading but I dont want to be black listed in my regional area by the mechanics, they seem to all know each other. I have since left the first mechanic who conned me into the timing belt change which he did say was stretched and it would have possibly been stretched but it really didnt need changing at that point as there was no problem with it, thats the only reason I kept my mouth shut as it wasnt a completely wasted repair but it was still wrong of them. The fuel pump problem with the second mechanic is still current, I was able to clear the error codes with a cheap Ebay OBD2 thing I bought years ago and my fuel guage is now working again, but the errors may come back I don't know. I am going out to the car shortly to see if they came back overnight. I'm wiring this Frieday the 11th of August 2023, fingers crossed they don't come back. Eventually they admitted they had never seen this error before and didn't know whats happening with the car. I called Holden dealers both here and in Sydney and talked to them about the problem and they seemed not to know about it either, even after I told them what the computer at the mechanics was saying. I then called a place named Nammis and spoke to people who repair instrument clusters all day long and specialize in them and they had never seen this problem before, also Holden says they will test the car and charge me $400 to try to find the problem but there is no guaranteee they will find the issue and I will still have to pay they can't find the issue. They then went on to say that they are now very limited to what they can do with Holdens since they left Australia as they get no support from the U.S and thats why this is happening. There was a page on the e Snap on tools computer where there should be solutions to the problem it finds but that page was blank. If anyone has knowledge or experience with these issues and can offer any advice please do, thanks in advance.
Hi there mate, I’ve heard this way too often because it’s a common wear item on these engines it’s the go to diagnosis when you get a rattle, the o-ring is definitely a problem on these engines also and a pain in the backside to replace considering it’s a $2 part.
Try holding your foot flat on the accelerator pedal this turns the fuel pump off and while holding it turn the car over. It will turn over and not start. Let it wind over for 10-15 seconds get oil pressure than take your foot off the pedal and start. Bet it doesn’t rattle.
Generally if your timing chain is stretched to the point it needs replacing it will throw a a code and will go into limp mode to minimise revving over 3k and snapping the chain which means grenadine the engine. Is what worked for me is the heavier weight oil.
In regards to the dash, why not find a cheap wreck and swap it out be a lot cheaper than taking it to the dealer.
If it still there it’s a problem elsewhere in the electronics.
Cheers.
Thanks for your reply @@petersbackyardbuilds I will try the accelorator suggestion in the morning and other things you outlined, the mechanics are now suspicious of the BCM I think they said (computer) I found a OBD2 scanner thing I bought many years ago once when I got a strange code and can now clear the code and when I do that the car is perfect, it keeps coming back though saying ithat the voltage ont he sender untit is too high, but I am not seeing any coodes like they were saying about the dash not matching hte other parts of my car I'm only seeing the P2068 error
where did you get the fuel pump changed ? are you in Melbourne? my commodore LPG randomly shows engine light checking with OBD2. it said low fuel pressure and some error code. when searched on internet says faulty fuel pump or injector. When engine is hot if i restart vehicle after 10 minutes it takes 7-8 seconds cranking to start but starts cold in just 1 cranking.
hi, @@pankajrana8006 I'm in nsw near Newcastle, you cna find people to repair your car using a site names autoguru you tell them what you want done and the mechanics in your area will contact you with quotes, that is how I had my fuel pump changed and how I got the price of $535 which was cheap compared to another place I asked for a quote.
how is it now? @@nobodysbusiness566
The biggest issue with these alloytecs is the PCV system mostly on the drivers side, i think Holden eventually fixed it but not sure when
If you want to check it an easy way is to remove filler cap with engine running and you should see oil flowing and there should be no vacuum there either
Only use 5W - 30 oil.
These engines work best with Synthetic quality oils. Check the temperature range of oil before mucking around with changing it.
Cheers for the advise.
Enjoy!
Best advice ever. It is a no brainer.
I use Penrite 5w30 full synthetic since new in 2004 now 350000 no problem. It's my work ute and we have both retired, not happy to part with it, properly not worth much.
Once they hit 200,000km, definitely use a 5 or 10W 40....
And change every 5,000km
Car lift is such a great investment.
Best tool I brought. 👍🏻
Hi, is this definitely a cam phase noise? I heard rattling noises on these engines is caused by insufficient oil pressure on initial startup which is fixed by a new oil pump?
I have a ve commodore Calais 2006 mine makes the same exact noise and the problem is my cam phasers just can’t b bothered to fix it 😂
How are you bud just wondering did you get any code and if so what were they I've got a P0008 but the car is running fine
At 270,000km on mine, i use 10W40, thicker oil to help the tensioners do their job a bit better.
Amd change at 5,000km
So far, so good..
Hey,
Got an 07 Omega, recently started having this issue especially when cold but never if the motor had been turned on already.
Took it for a service/oil change and seemed to fix it for a few weeks. Seems to be back now with a more intense sound.
Was told by more mechanically minded mates it was a timing chain issue and am just praying it's an easier fix.
Should I flush it out and replace the filter? Was it a permanent fix for you?
Cheers.
Hi mate, generally the coming change issue will through a code and the engine light will come on.
Can be a number of things.
-Oil pickup o ring not sealing
-oil filter not correctly installed. As there is a small plastic plunger under in the housing.
Lack of oil changes causing sludge buildup.
Most times it’s the cam variators pins become worn and don’t lock in causing the rattle until oil pressure is reached. As it gets worse the car will also run really rough.
A good engine flush and lighter weight oil fixed my issue.
Hope it works for you also.
Cheers.
@@petersbackyardbuildshey mate I seen it’s been 5 month has it worked for you? I’m doing it tomorrow just want to make sure you fixed it cheers
@@Najahhsbsbbsjj did it fix it for you? I got the same issue. in some comments the video maker says he put heavier oil and other comments he says lighter oil, so not sure what I'm suppose to do to.
I’ve stuck to 5000 k oil changes car has just clicked over 200 still very quick on start up.
Generally I also like to change oils at 5k.
Running diesel oil in petrol cars helps keep the internals clean I’ve found.
@@petersbackyardbuilds : So you run diesel oil through the engine? So you drop oil and replace it with diesel oil and let it run for a period of time or are you talking permanently?
Hi Will,
I run a 50/50 mix of diesel and oil for about 20 mins.
Than drop and replace with fresh oil no diesel replace filter also.
The diesel just gives the engine and all the oil ports a good clean.
Have also heard some mechanics using kerosene.
Cheers mate.
@@petersbackyardbuilds : That’s great, thanks for that! 👍
Good luck.
Cheers
Peter, what was the outcome after the oil change on the commodore. My ve does the same rattle when cold
Hi Bob, it’s almost 2 weeks now and it’s not happened since. Starts cold as it should every morning.
This is what worked for me - liquid moly engine flush, drive it around for a day or 2, drain replace oil and filter, used BURSONS 10w40 full synthetic oil.
Good luck.
Cheers.
Thanks for that advice Pete I'll try what you suggest and let you know. Cheers
@@wendynottle1362 ; how did you go?
Just get the o ring of the oil pick up replaced. That’s the right way to fix this problem.
I know from experience and lots of money wasted through dogshit mechanics
I got the o ring but not sure how to actually replace it. Where do I start? Any videos? @@crispbuild
Deadset some visco plus & some low viscosity trans fluid & or some 0w20 to Top off,
Cheers
I'm having the same issue on my Pontiac G8 LY7 - I was using conventional oil and when the weather temperature dropped the engine had a delayed rattle just like this. I switched to a 10w30 synthetic oil and a few days later the rattle has returned, not only is it not an intermittent problem it is happening on every cold start. Do you think the weight of the oil might have something to do with it?
Hi mate, it has worked in my case. Keep in mind that my engine is just under 300000km or 187000miles on it.
Check the cam phasers also.
Definitely an issue on these motors.
Thanks for watching.
Enjoy.
Use 5w-30 synthetic only. It does not 'hold' contamination and stays clean longer. Also manatatory to replace Oil Filter.
Did you do oil flush?
Try cleaning your PVC.
Thats not a fix.......the real culprit is a flattened out o ring on the oil pump
So explain how the rattle is no longer since my video?
It fixed my rattle.
Enjoy the video.
Sorry but this Video is really bad advice.
The rattle is timing chain slap period,
Timing chain rattle can come from a number of things like stretched timing chains, a clogged oil pick up, a bad O ring on the oil pick up, a bad oil pump, cam phasers, bad timing chain tensioners, or blocked oil galeries between the oil pump and the 3 tensioners for the timing chain.
It’s also worth mentioning the pcv valve could be blocked and clogging up the oil.
Next time you top up your oil after a oil change, you should put some oil in the filter housing to prime the oil pump and spraying brake clean on everything isn’t a great idea either, I noticed you sprayed it on the engine mounts and over the oil filter cap witch would have gotten on the plastic components of the engine bay and some wires like the coolant sensor,
Break cleaner is a great product but I would spray it on the rag then clean what you want cleaned.
This is my opinion (as you will have yours) take it however you like
@@matpolson4411not timing chain it would go into limp mode if it is
@@Najahhsbsbbsjj not necessarily, it would only go into limp mode if it goes more than 20% out of spec, witch would indicate that the timing chain has skipped a tooth
@matpolson4411 I noticed that my timing chain only rattles when the engine hasn't been started for a long time, like over 1 week. If you start the engine everyday or every other day, it starts without issue, but it's only when you let it sit, there is a serious rattle. I once got an engine code for the timing chain after a rough start, which I cleared a while back and hasn't come back since. (235,000km, 10w30).
Give it a bit of a clean up continues to spray a 1/10 of that bottle onto the pan