Mirror Guard also has magic attack, which I though with Magic Resistance turning into Spell Resistance is an upgrade. The Slaanesh chariot and the giant RoRs also gets poison attacks.
Something else about the Sword of Chaos that can help bump them up a little bit, but you won't find on the stats card: They have splash attacks up to 3 entities each vs normal Chaos Knights only hitting 1. Twwstats pulls data straight from the game files and shows a lot of the hidden stuff.
That's a huge difference against everything that's not a single entity, definitely not worse than the original imo. Also their 65 dmg of which ~70% is AP is great already. Even though normal Chaos Knights have more dmg total, it's only ~33% AP. Against armor Sword of Chaos are much better.
Yep, it's quite annoying that this information isn't displayed in-game or at least they should add a "Splash attack" line where they describe the role of this unit. :s
@@stergiosbarakas5687 And against a single entity the extra 36 models are of little use since only 8-12 would be able to hit most SEMs at any one time anyway. And the higher health per entity makes them much more survivable versus SEMs. They also have ItP and Guardian that wasen't mentioned that has some value of course.
Problem with splash attack is that it dilutes weapon damage dealt, so it isn't really an advantage unless you're overkilling units without splash. You could argue that it's a disadvantage, because it means you kill models more slowly.
@@talavb9301 units with splash attacks always perform better. Hit is calculated against each entity hit and damage is calculated after. So with each hit you roll your dice against several enemies. You will deliver your damage more often with splash attacks. Best example: Krimson killaz are thes melee infantry in the game. They don't have better stats then other units but splash attacks make them win most of times.
Yup. With the tech + chaos gift active their barrier is actually the highest in my army by a large margin. 2200 or so on large size, even more on ultra.
Unit size isn't always a factor: when my unit of 60 knights charge, I often have half the units just derping on the second line. Another argument is higher hp per model.
yeah, there's a big difference in health per entity there normal ones have 135 HP per entity Swords of Chaos have 316 HP per entity. that's 2.3 times more. pair that up with Festus or any lore of Nurgle caster and you've got a unit that will keep its full effectiveness far longer because they'll simply take longer to kill.
@@dumoulinroger401 It would against single entity monsters where you're limited by how many can surround the target and hit it at the same time. Less so against a unit of cav.
Yeah I think legend totally miscalculated how effective swords of chaos are. I am not sure about wh3, but in wh2 it was single best RoR in their roster.
Not to mention that normal knights only do ~33% of their dmg as AP, while the RoR version does ~70% of it's dmg as AP. And the RoR models hit 3 entities per attack, instead of 1 which is what the normal knights do.
Martyn Wilkinson, I agree. I will accept a RoR version that is NOTICEABLY more powerful (not just slightly better in the same way as the base unit, but a considerably greater version) than its original unit. But I much prefer a unit that, besides the higher stats and spiffier paint job, has a new and different usage in battle. It makes it much more worth whatever it takes to unlock it for recruitment in campaign, as well as much more worth the increased cost in a quick battle online or against the AI.
I've noticed that you have tendency to constantly miss any bonusses marked in melee attack section, like poison, magic attacks. Imo you should keep that in mind and pay extra attention to it
@@flosko the stats on a giant are negligible they can never get into melee in the first place due to being slower than most melee units and likely dying before they even reach the front line anyway from missile fire.
@@Lones555 ahh yes having ez 50% even more missle resistance with festus bonuses. He hardly gets dmg plus festus have ez healing. Even hero can heal of nurgle faction
The Chaos Knight regiment of renown actually have more dps then the normal one because it’s a melee unit. Only front row will get to attack anyway. It’s also much harder to kill an entity off because the health per entity increased a lot and have less chance to get stuck.
You would think that would be obvious to him when doing this comparison, since his chief complaint with melee units always includes that the back row stands around doing nothing. Swords of Chaos are far superior to the standard unit because of this.
But its cav. Put them into a wide formation and EVERY model gets to fight after a charge anyways. And then you pull them back out. So that rule only really applies to melee infantry, not shock cav like these guys.
@@elmanhux Yeah, but it also means fewer impacts, which reduces the overall damage of the charge even more. Though, that aside, the unit could be really good in campaign if it got the upgrades the aspiring champions get. Since it's basically a cav version of them.
@@rawn9234 there's still some slight stat tweaks for nearly every faction, plus the new adjustments to supply lines as well. I'd gladly watch him redo them for every faction
He should make a Terrain Tier List after all that and then Camera Settings Tier List Formation Tier List Voice actor Tier List (S+kaven tier) etc... SO MANY TIER LISTS
As a note regarding the "severed claw", they do get all the same aspiring champion bonuses. They also get the +800 barrier on top of their base 1000 when you research barriers for aspiring champions. With the expert charge defense, and reflection, they are probably the single best anti-large unit in the game, since they nullify any charge against them and initial contact will always be absorbed by barriers rather than HP and the small unit size of 16 means they don't have AI problems when trying to surround a single large entity or a lord/hero on a horse. It is basically the polearm version of an aspiring champ, which has its purpose unique from the originals, since Aspiring champs are not particularly good against cavalry. Along with the Chaos Knight unit that gets fewer models, those actually have a very interesting benefit by being smaller harder hitting units. It makes them amazing single-model murderers. They behave very differently than normal cavalry because of the fewer models, and their charge power allows them to plow through units that would otherwise bog them down on the way to the target (along with being harder to tangle anyway due to smaller overall unit size). Due to their guardian trait as well, they make excellent escorts for high mobility units that are targeting heroes, spellcasters, and such. This is before factoring in hidden traits such a cleave, if I recall in TW2 those knights could hit 3 or 4 targets per swing, while the basic knights are 1 (though that may have changed). Since both of these units seem to have a very different intended purpose than their original counterparts, I don't know if it's easy to do an apples to apples comparison of their strength. Just going by 'role' I couldn't see putting the severed claws in the same category as the aspiring champs.
1. Severed Claw are insane. Easily superior to normal aspiring, especially with Villitch. 2. Swords of Chaos are superior to regular Chaos Knights no doubt. Splash attacks plus higher hp per model.
@@Loj84 Nah only for a few units depending on animations as CA explained. On Swords of Chaos it's great. They have good animations, good weapon damage and good charge, so they sweep through infantry. With Archaeons buffs and red skill line, they rarely have losses too.
Just a quick note about the Severed Claw: it does get the benefits from tech boosts for Aspiring Champions. So it gets extra barrier points, it gets to summon Pink Horrors, it gets Frenzy, Hellblade, poison attacks, regen, Immune to Psychology, and Soul Hunter
I actually found that the severed claw absolutely decimates large entities, they also get all the buffs from the warriors of chaos trees so all champions are strong, but i sent the severed claw into like 4 regiments of chaos spawn and they slaughtered all of them before they had even broken their shields. But that is just my experience.
You tend to miss poison, flaming, and magical attacks. Several of the RoRs had those as additions, they might not be huge modifiers but they should certainly be factored in.
I really wish Legend consider to do tierlist of campaign mechanics such as skaven food, changing of the ways, blood hosts, waagh armies, high elves influence, etc
The Swords of Chaos ROR are performing better for me than their regular counterpart, despite having fewer entities. And they provide Lords and Heros with physical resistance.
Swords of chaos (Chaos Knights) also have guardian (+15% Physical resistance for lords and heroes in 35m area) so they can be really helpful in early-mid stages of campaign charging alongside your lord for free extra defense, for me personaly they are same as orginal worse in ofensive power but with that armor piercing and guardian, work well as a support when you duel enemy heroes and lords (And there size of unit don't matter that much beacause in the end only few of them can attack enemy character)
Guardian is only useful when you're trying to make hero-stack (Exalted heroes with specific traits). In emergency army (typical use of RoRs by Legend) that ability is almost useless
plus the swords of chaos can't keep up with archaon and he really doesn't need the 15% physical resistance anyway. Also you can have hero champions get the ability and ride along side him and actually kind of keep up.
The Swords of Chaos have 3x the armor piercing damage of the regular Chaos Knights while having ~ 40 % of the models. So against heavily armored enemies they'll actually end up dealing the same, if not more damage than normal Chaos Knights.
@@SpiceCh Against armored enemies like infranty they worse, but against single armored entity they gonna be much better, in the end only few model can stay in attack range so big number of entities in unit don't matter when they need to stay in line until other don't die and free up place for them.
Mirror guard and summoners of rage have magic attacks so physical resistance is bypassed Severed claw do get tech bonuses like the normal aspiring champions Swords of chaos have splash attacks, i would put them higher than normal knights The nurgle giant has poison attacks so it can last a bit longer in melee on top of the melee defense
The aspiring champions are insanely good when they have all 4 buffs. They are a god tier unit and easy to get for all your armies. I have regular Tzentch Chosen with Halberds and they absolutely demolish larger entities and are tanky as hell. I am slowly turning Archaons army into a Tzentch stack and it is pretty much unkillable. Need to get a Nurgle sorcerer on a Shrine and maybe a nurgle hero to run with the cav/Shaggoth and I am all set.
In my Archaon campaign I have 1 dedicated army for each god...because it's fun. My Archaon Campaign has been stomping everything around me into the ground since turn one. In the Chaos wastes it was pretty much a "serve me or die" game. Now that I blitz through Kislev and the Empire it really feels like I am the endgame boss by turn 60. Damn Chaos is so much fun now.
@@boomerix Yeah I am also painting an army for each god as well. It is not so much a strategy game anymore and more like wander around the world and have cool fights, it is just so easy now. I have Sword of Khaine on a Nurgle Sorcerer Lord so I am going to have to send him solo to die to some Elves and then get a Khorne Lord to pick it up. The biggest problem with that is I am not sure he can lose
Nah, swords of chaos should have more stats, especially the charge bonus. Their apocalyptic charge should be passive or be the active spell but also add a huge amount of mass - to be really apocalyptic. Balance the cost for MP and open it recruiting on 30 level of campaign. Because they are literally the Archaons himself bodyguard, best of the best chaos knights
@@Freekymoho they are not legend totally miscalculated on them, they are best cave after bretonnian grail cav. You can throw them in they massacre enemy and because of much more hp per entity you can cycle them with no loses. And they hit like truck, much more then normal chaos knighs unless u let them get surrounded they will never use all entities attacking, but Swords use most
The Mirror Guard and the Summoners of Rage deal magic damage while the normal Chaos Warriors and Dragon Ogres do not. 17:30 Makes sense that these two are so different given the fact that one is a halberd unit and the other one sword&shield. Simply different units in the case of this RoR. In this case you cannot really compare the regular ones and the RoR I think. The Slaughtercade also deals poison damage; this is also the case with the giant. It should also be mentioned that the value of Terror really depends on the difficulty - on very hard battles it doesn't do much, on normal it can be very impactfull and break entire infantry lines or blobs.
Can confirm - I've actually had some of the most fun flanking with them and charging them into missile units in the AI's backline. The models go flying and you just see the unit's health bar dropping down massively. Insane combination of charge bonus, mass and speed.
I did some testing with the swords of chaos : 3 Sword of chaos 3 Regular Chaos Knights Against Regular Saurus Warriors, At the same given time : All 3 Regular Chaos Knights routed the saurus, the saurus have 25 % hp left, the chaos knights sit at roughly 80/90 % of their health All 3 sword of chaos are still fighting the saurus, the saurus have 60 % hp left, the chaos knights sit at 75 % of their health WITH THEIR ABILITY USED ! It's a straight up downgrade damage wise and HP wise. Ofc there is maybe some niche situations where results might differ but that is my conclusion. I tried some combat against carnosaurs, the sword of chaos finishes their combat with 50 % hp left, meanwhile the regular chaos knight take 80 % hp damage. The sword of chaos seems to be an upgrade against armored SEM They seems to do the same job against cold one spear riders, with the non ror finishing their fight with roughly 5/10 % more health.
the severed claw are basically super complementary to Vilitch in the campaing. Vilitch lack AP and no bonus vs large. So when I fear that Zhao ming or Suneater well I keep them as bodygard and Vilitch with severed claw will easilly beat those strong legendary lord in melee.
I think with the increased mass and massive charge bonus they get just SEVERELY boosts the dps the Brazen Throne RoR has. I've seen them wipe out entire HP bars of units with that shit its insane.
yeah, there's a big difference in health per entity there normal ones have 135 HP per entity Swords of Chaos have 316 HP per entity. that's 2.3 times more. pair that up with Festus or any lore of Nurgle caster and you've got a unit that will keep its full effectiveness far longer because they'll simply take longer to kill.
@@Eclipsed_Embers or, because WOC have access to a lot of powerful vortexes, charge the S.O.C in, and cast either pit of shades, purple sun, flame storm, infernal gateway, or hell even blight boil and final transmutation, centered on them. Then heal up whatever damage the SOC took from the spell
Something missed here and in the skaven clan rat RR(maybe other tier lists) are some units have different types of attacks. Mirror guard get magic attacks over the marked counterpart which can be good or bad depending on the force you are fighting. Thought it was worth a note.
When would magic attacks be a bad thing? There's no more magic resistance since it was replaced by spell resistance, meaning that magic attacks are purely beneficial since they negate physical resistance.
FYI the new WoC LL from the new DLC can recruit the demonic RoR, but only those of their respective god. ex Valkia can get the exalted bloodletters RoR, Festus gets the exalted plaguebearers RoR, etc.
Do the Swords of Chaos deal less damage though? Knights are not a missile unit so I think it's a little unfair to say the 60 regular Knights will deal 60 times their weapon damage since you probably won't get more than 20 to attack at a time. If both units fight to the death against low armored infantry the regular ones might deal more overall, but I wouldn't be suprised if the RoR beats the regular Knights head to head
Swords of Chaos beat normal chaos knights by a long shot, i say as a chaos main. So I am genuinely surprised Legend of all people said they are worst than the original knights
Skull crushers ror is insane. They go trough units like nothing, bouncing between targets with them is insane. They delete archers almost instantly, it should be rated better than original. Its not just anti infantry difference.
I don't know how often you read these comments Legend, but Swords of Chaos can hit up to 3 enemies in one attack which equals out to more damage. The less models a unit has; the more HP per model there is, therefore they survive much better. You also completely skimmed over the fact that when they're with 35m of a lord or hero, they give +15% physical resistance. They also have 70% of their damage as AP damage, which already makes them better than normal Chaos Knights in dealing with anything that isn't chaff. You've also forgotten on literally almost every RoR having 1 of 3 things, poison, magic, or fire attacks, or again, another special trait that the original doesn't. There was only one singular RoR that you even mentioned to having the bonus attack damage type and that was Knights of the Brazen Throne. Mirror Guard: Magic Attacks Summoner's of Rage: Magic Attacks Swords of Chaos: Flaming Attacks/Guardian The Severed Claw: Magic Attacks/Charge Reflection/Expert Charge Defence/Barrier The Sibilant Slaughtercade: Poison Attacks Bilious Thunderguff: Poison Attacks/Violent Wind's Corroded Armour (-30 Armour that can spread up to 5 units) Every single RoR has something over the original units, so this list is so incredibly inaccurate.
I'd imagine that the Swords of Chaos would be a good choice vs low entity count/lord/hero sniping as there's less entities to get clumped up and derp out trying to attack their target. Lower entity count also means its easier for it to retain strength from battle to battle in the event you need to fight more than one in your emergency.
Swords of Chaos are good in all cases, they massacre other cavalry, take out lords pretty well, and do very well against infantry ESPECIALLY if used alongside Archaon which they are intended for
I feel like video talking about the unit cards and what can appear on them might be more useful. You could explain in what situation any particular attribute/ability/resistance/etc are effective, and when they are not. For the most part, these RoR tier lists are just looking at the cards and seeing what is different; giving people the tools to understand those differences might be more useful than a case-by-case look.
For the swords of chaos, you have to keep in mind, they may have less units but that doesn't necessarily mean less damage. When you charge in with 60 knights, not all of them will connect and deal damage, some will get stuck behind those in front, not actually attacking, so multiplying their damage by 60 is not accurate in practice. The swords of chaos have less units but are more efficient in dealing their damage and since ideally with cavalry you wanna charge in then back out, they will hit harder then are meant to be cycle charged. It's also easier to disengage with them as less units means it's less likely that units will get bogged down. I actually quite like them in campaign but I don't play on very hard battle difficulty.
Severed Claw gets all the bonuses from the tech tree, can confirm. Can't remember if they get additional barrier with the specific tech but they do get strider, regeneration, frenzy etc.
Regarding the Swords of Chaos- there is a lot more going on than you may think. First, each entity has massively increased health and mass. They are more difficult to bog down, and can take a lot more damage before losing an entity meaning all entities are doing damage for longer. I haven’t checked in the editor, but there’s often another stat difference between these unit sizes: the direction each entity can attack. In 48+ units, attacks are usually forward facing only. A unit with 24 entities or fewer usually can attack in 360 degrees. 300+ is a truly hefty amount of health for a cavalry entity, as opposed to 130~ which can be killed in 3 halberd swings. Coupled with their impressive armor piercing, they are character killers. In fact, the 24 of them actually do 25% more total armor piercing than all 60 of the original unit. The charge is also more impactful, literally, due to the fewer more massive entities. The physics are amplified further by Apocalyptic Charge than if it applied to a more numerous unit.
The swords of chaos also give defense to your lord if they are close to them. And they get splash attacks on up to 3 entities which makes them hit more units than standard chaos knights.
The Sword of Chaos used to be nearly unstoppable on tabletop when in Archaon's army. You should try the units before (I know it would require time) or make a demo because the splash attack is quite effective against infantry and they are more than OK versus some monstruous units.
I think 1 mistake you do Legend is, giving numbers too much importance. The thing is, in choke points having more brute strenght is way better than having more numbers. Thats why the Swords of Chaos deal more dmg. Their 24 models actually attack. The 60 normal Knights wont all attack. Depending on the situation maybe half of them. And then you suddenly compare 20 to 30 units and not 24 to 60. For Range units its a diffrent story, but for Meele units quantitiy is definitly not a clear case if more = better
You do my black horsey boys dirty! Less unit size but higher damage per model is great! Seldom do all entities fight in a whole unit anyhow, meaning higher dps, and against single entities, and in chokes, and easier to move through gaps, and better staying power/model... Then there is that high armour piercing making them kings against other cavalry. Them boys be good! Still love all your videos, very helpful! :)
Swords of Chaos also has Guardian and immune to psychology... but I suspect they are designed this way because you are meant to use them together with (mainly) Archaon (being the remains of his personal/first warband), so they are like the Severed Claw in the sense that you use the RoR unit in a different manner than you would with the regular version.
Another problem with their cost in campaign is that they actually have higher upkeep usually than the base unit. Something that a normal unit at rank 9 would not have. Making regiments of renown much more expensive than their base counterpart over time.
Severed Claw has double the barrier of normal aspiring champions, because all the tech applies to them. So they start out with 1k barrier, and then get an extra 1k on top when you research teh tech that gives normal champions their 1k barrier. It's really good! Plus all the other aspiring champion buffs, of course.
Mirror guard ; Forgot magic attacks were added Wyrd Spawn ; in campiagn ALL spawn can get terror via a tech (can be gotten as your 3rd tech) Summoner of Rage ; Magic attacks too Knights of the Brazen throne ; Regular have bronze shields ,RoR doesn't Thundergruff ; on Fetus he is great (more missile resist,melee defense and so on) but unsure on archeon also forgot poison Severed claw ; Charge reflection & standard halberd things also expert charge defense if I recall correctly Final note Swords of Chaos have splash attacks apperently + Guardian
Soul of Damnation also has an insane aim. Once it fires it shot is quite unlikely it will miss. One of the best pieces of artillery in the game, though it doesn't state it in its stats.
idk man, knights of the brazen throne are pretty insane against any infantry, they just buldoze through dealing massive amounts of damage and go out the other side like the enemy wasn't even there
I think it wouldn't be a bad idea to have another category for certain units that while are similar, serve a completely different role than the original. Like the Severed Claw or Brazen Throne unit, where each do better against certain units compared to what even their standard counter part can do. As you said throw the Severed Claw against a large unit, it's dead, or you don't focus them down and they catch one of your large entities or cav units, they aren't going to be around for long.
I didn't purchase this DLC yet, but thank you Legend for covering the new units! I have yet to see any of these units in action yet and this tierlist is good for the decision making process
Here's an unsolicited Champions of Chaos advert :P Just finished a long Immortal Empires Valkia campaign and I'd say get it. I had a blast with just that one campaign and I'm excited to try the others out. I simp Valkia she is an ez 9/10 campaign imo. If you want a simple campaign, start with Valkia, she snowballs out of control just by winning battles. Pick a direction and kill everything in a straight line, her faction makes an absurd amount of money per battle won; with each LL you kill adding like 20k+ monies to your hoard and each victory adding campaign movement range so enemy armies can't really run from you by retreating as Valkia can run cowards down on the campaign map from behind. Early game is pretty challenging in IE as you are surrounded by chad LLs that hate your guts, I got into scraps with Malekith, Grombrindal, Hellebrond, Sigvald, Bellakor, Allith Anar, Sister's of Twilight and Grand Hierophant Khotep in the first 50 turns. It's manageable as long as you can string a couple of wins together in a row although the Dark Elves are extremely dangerous early game as Dark Shards shred your early game units. So I shill Champions of Chaos DLC, it was worth it alone for the 36 or so hours of fun I had with Valkia. Money well spent. I think I'm going to start a Vilitch campaign now.
I just found it cute how the mirror guard were originally designed to have the exact same movement speed as Sigvald the Magnificent to keep up with him - Just like how Archaeon has his Swords of Chaos buddies with Guardian to keep him company. Kholek Suneater doesn't really need buddies, but I guess he's got the Summoners of Rage if someone really wants to go thematic.
Swords of Chaos grant 15% phys resist to lords and heroes in an aoe around them. They work well with Archaen since he gets immediate access to them and his kindleflame passive when casting boosts their damage output
You know the research that gives Aspiring Champions Barrier? It works for the severed claw too, meaning they get EVEN MORE Barrier. So yes, the severed claw get the tech buffs of regular Aspiring Champions, and it is hilarious.
I disagree about Swords Of Chaos. yes, the entity count is smaller, but you never gonna utilize all 60 entities of regular chaos knights Aspiring champions can be buffed AF in the tech tree, so you cant simply compare them
I’m really excited for if you will make a video on how the units for all factions in general play nowadays in IE. I understand that’s a massive task for you and you wanna finish regs of renown before you do any of that. But man, it feels like everything plays so differently now
Very minor, but the Summoners of Rage also have magic attack while the normal Dragon Ogres don't. Don't think it's enough to change their rating, just wanted to point it out!
After playing Valkia, it's worth noting that she does in fact get access to the Hellforged Host Exalted Bloodletters, but from what I can tell she doesn't get the Beastmen Giant.
Legend, comment from a Multiplayer user but that i believe can be really usefull when rating units even if it is from campaing: In the moment u talk about Chaos Knights RoR and u say "Fire reduces Healing" be careful because it only reduces healing that comes strictly from the passive ability "Regeneration", Nurgles spells that heal or Vampire counts ones are not affected by this, at least for what we can read in the stats showed up in the screen, ive not done the calculations but i assume it is the way it works, and btw u have missed the Guardian perk on the Chaos Knights RoR and they are also inmune to psychology and another hidden stat that doesnt show and a sub below has stated too is that they have splash attacks, they are actually doing x3 attacks per entity, so they are basically dishing out more damage than their normal variant does, when doing this videos i would highly recommend u Legend, that u use the TWWStats website, because it shows up a lot of hidden stadistics that arent shown in the actual game, for example, dwarven cannons are the most accurate ones among all despite empire ones costing the same 800 Gold, hope this works for future videos
So fire is DOUBLE useful against the regen trait since it's 25%more damagr AND halved healing, but doesn't effect any other type? (I think that it might effect healing spells, those are generally labled as "regeneration"
@@DIEGhostfish i dont know where everyone got the idea that fire halves any healing source when it isnt said anywhere in the stats of the game, the only ability that gives weakness to fire its that concrete ability because it stricly says that the ones that has that suffer from 25% weakness to fire
@@Im_Anthonyy But Regeneration itself doesn't say halved healing when on fire. Just the 25% so if it's halvinv healing it likely halves all healing but the inbuilt regen effect is an extra 25% weak.
@@DIEGhostfish ure overcomplicating things that arent complicated, forget everything u have heard and check the in game stats, just that, "Regeneration" Gives healing per second with the drawback of adding fire weakness, so as long as we know, units with that abd only that are weak to fire, for the rest of things test them yourself but the game doesnt say anything
Something you missed with the knights of the brazen throne is that they look absolutely badass. They may not be far superior than the original in combat, but they are far superior to the original in style 😎
I feel like the severed claw are one of the best ror, I keep them behind my lines, summon some demons, they go stalk and then they just hunt down any large units or hero’s and delete them so quickly. Even when fighting regular units they fuck so hard, that AP is crazy in some match ups
I will say, for the Chaos Knights, lower unit count does mean each individual entity has a larger share of the total health pool, so they’re less likely to lose a unit during a charge. Still probably worse than the original, though
Yesterday in my Bretonia campaign had the pleasue to square of against those 7th Claw Guys in Belakors army. Those bastards where almost unkillable with my Questing Knights xD
I hate to nit-pick, but when you were talking about the Mirror Guard and Summoners of rage, you ignored the addition of magical attacs, which is in Warhammer 3 very strong feature. Otherwise, nice video 😁
Probably someone said it before but the Champions of Chaos factions CAN get access to the demonic RoRs. For example, Festus gets access to the Festering Stooges. I am assuming the other CoCs can as well.
I hate advertising and all that stuff but... I have to say Instant Gaming never failed to me when others big websites did scam and stole money like fucking G2A. So I don't like watching advs in a video... But I don't like G2A and many youtubers still collaborate with them so that's why I took my time. Fuck G2A, InsGaming never failed to me
Severed claw is vastly superior. Low armored units wont be able to dent their armor and even get through their barrier. Even archers will have a hard time getting through unless they are armor piercing.
u probably get this question a lot but is tww3 worth buying atm or should i wait (for a discount for example)? i think it initially got poor reviews due to bugs and just unbalanced/not so fun gameplay mechanics (might be misremembering, been a while since i looked up most reviews) just wondering if most of the big problems got resolved yet.
The soul of Damnation previously possessed a unique passive ability which changed to single use. It should drop a tier in my estimation.The Swords of Choas and Severed Claw should raise two respective tiers. The Severed Claw have superior combat stats in thier supreme armour-piercing weapon strength and fantastic anti-large bonus across multiple entities. Although they lose silver shields, their barrier and additional tech upgrades add more barrier on top of other combat attributes, completely offsetting missing health. Wielding Halberds, they have charge reflection. Furthermore, they have expert charge defense which means they take less damage at the beginning of a fight from all a charging enemies, big or small. You think too strictly in terms of speciality and underestimate their armour-piercing. They only have four less melee defense at equivalent max experience to their generic variant and make up for ten less melee attack with thier armour-piercing then anti-large; they need fewer attacks to kill their deadliest, biggest armoured foes. Swords of Chaos, upon charging, do not all engage at once; the front only do. The unit size factors in less with regards to that. Moreover, when they lose half their health, those entities in it are liklier survivors compared to their equivalent, which would lose between 13 to 25 riders optimally. The charge from Swords of Chaos is more valuable, thanks to their high armour-piercing weapon strength. Therefore, Their damage output is highest.
Knight of Brazen Throne at least better than original. Their charge is much better then regular one, they can make flee up to t3 unit (depends on unit type) in single charge. Amazing chivalry.
Could you do a comparison for the new Lords in WoC and Mono armies? I feel like the new Daemon Princes are flat out better than the Exalted Greater Daemons, at leeast from Tzeentch, feelingwise...
The best Daemon Princes are Nurgle ones (Exalted Great Unclean Ones are glorified giants in terms of combat effectiveness), the worst are Khorne ones (worse stat-wise than Exalted Bloodthirsters)
Mirror Guard and Summoners of Rage have magical attack Swords of Chaos have Guardian Knights of the brazen Throne don't have shields Sibiliant Slaughtercade have poison
the Daemonic RoR are restricted to their respective champion (and those champions can't get the RoRs of the other gods so no Billious Thundergruff, Mirror Guard, ect for Vilitch, just the Tzeentch and Undivided ones), in this video he was only going over ones that Archaon can get.
Mirror Guard also has magic attack, which I though with Magic Resistance turning into Spell Resistance is an upgrade. The Slaanesh chariot and the giant RoRs also gets poison attacks.
Same with dragon ogres
the summoners of rage also have that by comparison to the standard dragon ogres
He forgets a lot of the contact effects, not blaming him just saying. And yes magic attack is big now
A lot of these analyses missed big differences
I can’t get mirror guard, they are locked behind a dlc wall even though I have all dlc
Something else about the Sword of Chaos that can help bump them up a little bit, but you won't find on the stats card: They have splash attacks up to 3 entities each vs normal Chaos Knights only hitting 1. Twwstats pulls data straight from the game files and shows a lot of the hidden stuff.
That's a huge difference against everything that's not a single entity, definitely not worse than the original imo. Also their 65 dmg of which ~70% is AP is great already. Even though normal Chaos Knights have more dmg total, it's only ~33% AP. Against armor Sword of Chaos are much better.
Yep, it's quite annoying that this information isn't displayed in-game or at least they should add a "Splash attack" line where they describe the role of this unit. :s
@@stergiosbarakas5687 And against a single entity the extra 36 models are of little use since only 8-12 would be
able to hit most SEMs at any one time anyway. And the higher health per entity makes them much more survivable versus SEMs.
They also have ItP and Guardian that wasen't mentioned that has some value of course.
Problem with splash attack is that it dilutes weapon damage dealt, so it isn't really an advantage unless you're overkilling units without splash. You could argue that it's a disadvantage, because it means you kill models more slowly.
@@talavb9301 units with splash attacks always perform better. Hit is calculated against each entity hit and damage is calculated after. So with each hit you roll your dice against several enemies. You will deliver your damage more often with splash attacks.
Best example: Krimson killaz are thes melee infantry in the game. They don't have better stats then other units but splash attacks make them win most of times.
The Severed Claw gets all the tech and skill bonuses that the original aspiring champs do, including bonus barrier hp
Yup. With the tech + chaos gift active their barrier is actually the highest in my army by a large margin. 2200 or so on large size, even more on ultra.
They become so insanely awesome
AND perfect vigor, slap a fire banner on them and watch them get 300+ kills while taking no damage. It’s insane
Yeah but they dont get the 20% spell resistance from the red skill tree for some reason.
Barrier AND regen is already pretty metal on the regular aspiring champions but the claw just runs away with it
22:26 It also has an amazing animation, with the giant taking a massive fart, then sniffing up the aroma of its own fart. Truly amazing
"Envision the aroma."
Unit size isn't always a factor: when my unit of 60 knights charge, I often have half the units just derping on the second line.
Another argument is higher hp per model.
yeah, there's a big difference in health per entity there
normal ones have 135 HP per entity
Swords of Chaos have 316 HP per entity. that's 2.3 times more. pair that up with Festus or any lore of Nurgle caster and you've got a unit that will keep its full effectiveness far longer because they'll simply take longer to kill.
I was also wondering if it does not make them more anti large than the regular unit.
@@dumoulinroger401 It would against single entity monsters where you're limited by how many can surround the target and hit it at the same time. Less so against a unit of cav.
Yeah I think legend totally miscalculated how effective swords of chaos are. I am not sure about wh3, but in wh2 it was single best RoR in their roster.
Not to mention that normal knights only do ~33% of their dmg as AP, while the RoR version does ~70% of it's dmg as AP. And the RoR models hit 3 entities per attack, instead of 1 which is what the normal knights do.
The Severed Claw is pretty much what I want from RORs - a radically different unit which performs very differently from the base.
They're the Manrippers of the WOC. Similar to the base unit in theory, completely different applications
@@shalax7881 I think the halberd variant RoRs are all a good addition to their respective factions. The Beastslayers of Bastonne do the same thing
@@xanman2003 nay, the beastslayers are way weaker.
Martyn Wilkinson,
I agree. I will accept a RoR version that is NOTICEABLY more powerful (not just slightly better in the same way as the base unit, but a considerably greater version) than its original unit. But I much prefer a unit that, besides the higher stats and spiffier paint job, has a new and different usage in battle. It makes it much more worth whatever it takes to unlock it for recruitment in campaign, as well as much more worth the increased cost in a quick battle online or against the AI.
I've noticed that you have tendency to constantly miss any bonusses marked in melee attack section, like poison, magic attacks. Imo you should keep that in mind and pay extra attention to it
And some extra abilities like Guardian or Immune to Psychology (Swords of Chaos in this Video)
Poison on the giant makes it way better in melee then the generic one
@@flosko the stats on a giant are negligible they can never get into melee in the first place due to being slower than most melee units and likely dying before they even reach the front line anyway from missile fire.
@@Lones555 we're talking about festus' faction here. good luck outdamaging his healing with regular archers
@@Lones555 ahh yes having ez 50% even more missle resistance with festus bonuses. He hardly gets dmg plus festus have ez healing. Even hero can heal of nurgle faction
The Chaos Knight regiment of renown actually have more dps then the normal one because it’s a melee unit. Only front row will get to attack anyway. It’s also much harder to kill an entity off because the health per entity increased a lot and have less chance to get stuck.
You would think that would be obvious to him when doing this comparison, since his chief complaint with melee units always includes that the back row stands around doing nothing. Swords of Chaos are far superior to the standard unit because of this.
But its cav. Put them into a wide formation and EVERY model gets to fight after a charge anyways. And then you pull them back out. So that rule only really applies to melee infantry, not shock cav like these guys.
@@zerg0s less entities in a cav unit = easier to pull out, means another + for the RoR :D
@@elmanhux Yeah, but it also means fewer impacts, which reduces the overall damage of the charge even more.
Though, that aside, the unit could be really good in campaign if it got the upgrades the aspiring champions get. Since it's basically a cav version of them.
I'm excited for legend of total war to milk this and do this for every unit/hero/faction/Lord in the game
If he redoes a faction with no new units I'd still watch it probably
@@rawn9234 there's still some slight stat tweaks for nearly every faction, plus the new adjustments to supply lines as well. I'd gladly watch him redo them for every faction
He should make a Terrain Tier List after all that and then
Camera Settings Tier List
Formation Tier List
Voice actor Tier List (S+kaven tier)
etc... SO MANY TIER LISTS
Would be helpful actually
As a note regarding the "severed claw", they do get all the same aspiring champion bonuses. They also get the +800 barrier on top of their base 1000 when you research barriers for aspiring champions. With the expert charge defense, and reflection, they are probably the single best anti-large unit in the game, since they nullify any charge against them and initial contact will always be absorbed by barriers rather than HP and the small unit size of 16 means they don't have AI problems when trying to surround a single large entity or a lord/hero on a horse.
It is basically the polearm version of an aspiring champ, which has its purpose unique from the originals, since Aspiring champs are not particularly good against cavalry.
Along with the Chaos Knight unit that gets fewer models, those actually have a very interesting benefit by being smaller harder hitting units. It makes them amazing single-model murderers. They behave very differently than normal cavalry because of the fewer models, and their charge power allows them to plow through units that would otherwise bog them down on the way to the target (along with being harder to tangle anyway due to smaller overall unit size). Due to their guardian trait as well, they make excellent escorts for high mobility units that are targeting heroes, spellcasters, and such. This is before factoring in hidden traits such a cleave, if I recall in TW2 those knights could hit 3 or 4 targets per swing, while the basic knights are 1 (though that may have changed).
Since both of these units seem to have a very different intended purpose than their original counterparts, I don't know if it's easy to do an apples to apples comparison of their strength. Just going by 'role' I couldn't see putting the severed claws in the same category as the aspiring champs.
1. Severed Claw are insane. Easily superior to normal aspiring, especially with Villitch.
2. Swords of Chaos are superior to regular Chaos Knights no doubt. Splash attacks plus higher hp per model.
Splash attacks are detrimental to most infantry and cavalry. This is why they removed it from hammerers as part of the buff.
@@Loj84 Nah only for a few units depending on animations as CA explained. On Swords of Chaos it's great. They have good animations, good weapon damage and good charge, so they sweep through infantry. With Archaeons buffs and red skill line, they rarely have losses too.
The demon RoR are actually recruitable by the new Champions (like Exalted Pink Horrors RoR for Vilitch)
Valkia in RoC has access to the RoR exalted bloodletters, but not the bloodcrushers
@@birdofgrey6542 Has both in IE
@@birdofgrey6542 that’s weird, it’s the first RR I got in IE
@@benpage5088 I’ve played a 200 turn Valkia campaign and you certainly do not get access to the RoR bloodcrushers in immortal empires.
I’m about 150 turns into a Vilitch campaign and I can’t recruit the Knights of Immolation
Edit: But I can recruit the Blazing Squealers
Just a quick note about the Severed Claw: it does get the benefits from tech boosts for Aspiring Champions. So it gets extra barrier points, it gets to summon Pink Horrors, it gets Frenzy, Hellblade, poison attacks, regen, Immune to Psychology, and Soul Hunter
I actually found that the severed claw absolutely decimates large entities, they also get all the buffs from the warriors of chaos trees so all champions are strong, but i sent the severed claw into like 4 regiments of chaos spawn and they slaughtered all of them before they had even broken their shields. But that is just my experience.
they get double shields from the tech, which gives them I believe the strongest tzeentch shields in the game.
@@zerg0s they have 1800 shield on ultra
You tend to miss poison, flaming, and magical attacks. Several of the RoRs had those as additions, they might not be huge modifiers but they should certainly be factored in.
I really wish Legend consider to do tierlist of campaign mechanics such as skaven food, changing of the ways, blood hosts, waagh armies, high elves influence, etc
The Swords of Chaos ROR are performing better for me than their regular counterpart, despite having fewer entities. And they provide Lords and Heros with physical resistance.
Swords of chaos (Chaos Knights) also have guardian (+15% Physical resistance for lords and heroes in 35m area) so they can be really helpful in early-mid stages of campaign charging alongside your lord for free extra defense, for me personaly they are same as orginal worse in ofensive power but with that armor piercing and guardian, work well as a support when you duel enemy heroes and lords (And there size of unit don't matter that much beacause in the end only few of them can attack enemy character)
Which makes sense as they are Archaons personal Chaos Knights so they should be riding with him
Guardian is only useful when you're trying to make hero-stack (Exalted heroes with specific traits). In emergency army (typical use of RoRs by Legend) that ability is almost useless
plus the swords of chaos can't keep up with archaon and he really doesn't need the 15% physical resistance anyway. Also you can have hero champions get the ability and ride along side him and actually kind of keep up.
The Swords of Chaos have 3x the armor piercing damage of the regular Chaos Knights while having ~ 40 % of the models. So against heavily armored enemies they'll actually end up dealing the same, if not more damage than normal Chaos Knights.
@@SpiceCh Against armored enemies like infranty they worse, but against single armored entity they gonna be much better, in the end only few model can stay in attack range so big number of entities in unit don't matter when they need to stay in line until other don't die and free up place for them.
Mirror guard and summoners of rage have magic attacks so physical resistance is bypassed
Severed claw do get tech bonuses like the normal aspiring champions
Swords of chaos have splash attacks, i would put them higher than normal knights
The nurgle giant has poison attacks so it can last a bit longer in melee on top of the melee defense
Sleeping on the chain debuff the giant brings. Love him with Festus.
The aspiring champions are insanely good when they have all 4 buffs. They are a god tier unit and easy to get for all your armies. I have regular Tzentch Chosen with Halberds and they absolutely demolish larger entities and are tanky as hell.
I am slowly turning Archaons army into a Tzentch stack and it is pretty much unkillable. Need to get a Nurgle sorcerer on a Shrine and maybe a nurgle hero to run with the cav/Shaggoth and I am all set.
In my Archaon campaign I have 1 dedicated army for each god...because it's fun. My Archaon Campaign has been stomping everything around me into the ground since turn one. In the Chaos wastes it was pretty much a "serve me or die" game. Now that I blitz through Kislev and the Empire it really feels like I am the endgame boss by turn 60. Damn Chaos is so much fun now.
@@boomerix Yeah I am also painting an army for each god as well. It is not so much a strategy game anymore and more like wander around the world and have cool fights, it is just so easy now.
I have Sword of Khaine on a Nurgle Sorcerer Lord so I am going to have to send him solo to die to some Elves and then get a Khorne Lord to pick it up. The biggest problem with that is I am not sure he can lose
the swords of chaos also have guardian, making them the perfect sidekicks to charge side by side with archaon
Nah, swords of chaos should have more stats, especially the charge bonus. Their apocalyptic charge should be passive or be the active spell but also add a huge amount of mass - to be really apocalyptic.
Balance the cost for MP and open it recruiting on 30 level of campaign.
Because they are literally the Archaons himself bodyguard, best of the best chaos knights
yeah it feels weird for archaon's personal retinue to be this bad
@@Freekymoho they are not legend totally miscalculated on them, they are best cave after bretonnian grail cav. You can throw them in they massacre enemy and because of much more hp per entity you can cycle them with no loses. And they hit like truck, much more then normal chaos knighs unless u let them get surrounded they will never use all entities attacking, but Swords use most
@@Freekymoho they kick ass. They have multi-attacks... so they deal more dmg and they dont die nearly as fast as normal Chaos Knights
The Mirror Guard and the Summoners of Rage deal magic damage while the normal Chaos Warriors and Dragon Ogres do not.
17:30 Makes sense that these two are so different given the fact that one is a halberd unit and the other one sword&shield. Simply different units in the case of this RoR. In this case you cannot really compare the regular ones and the RoR I think.
The Slaughtercade also deals poison damage; this is also the case with the giant.
It should also be mentioned that the value of Terror really depends on the difficulty - on very hard battles it doesn't do much, on normal it can be very impactfull and break entire infantry lines or blobs.
Skullcrushers RoR hits like a truck with charge impact damage alone thanks to Murderous Charge. Wipes unbraced infantry.
Can confirm - I've actually had some of the most fun flanking with them and charging them into missile units in the AI's backline. The models go flying and you just see the unit's health bar dropping down massively. Insane combination of charge bonus, mass and speed.
I did some testing with the swords of chaos :
3 Sword of chaos
3 Regular Chaos Knights
Against Regular Saurus Warriors, At the same given time :
All 3 Regular Chaos Knights routed the saurus, the saurus have 25 % hp left, the chaos knights sit at roughly 80/90 % of their health
All 3 sword of chaos are still fighting the saurus, the saurus have 60 % hp left, the chaos knights sit at 75 % of their health WITH THEIR ABILITY USED !
It's a straight up downgrade damage wise and HP wise. Ofc there is maybe some niche situations where results might differ but that is my conclusion.
I tried some combat against carnosaurs, the sword of chaos finishes their combat with 50 % hp left, meanwhile the regular chaos knight take 80 % hp damage. The sword of chaos seems to be an upgrade against armored SEM
They seems to do the same job against cold one spear riders, with the non ror finishing their fight with roughly 5/10 % more health.
the severed claw are basically super complementary to Vilitch in the campaing. Vilitch lack AP and no bonus vs large. So when I fear that Zhao ming or Suneater well I keep them as bodygard and Vilitch with severed claw will easilly beat those strong legendary lord in melee.
Getting an Instant Gaming sponsorship at this time was such a Chad move
Missed that the Skull Crusher of Khorne regiment is missing the bronze shields, may bring it down from being slightly better.
I think with the increased mass and massive charge bonus they get just SEVERELY boosts the dps the Brazen Throne RoR has. I've seen them wipe out entire HP bars of units with that shit its insane.
Yea dude, they're fuckin nutty. Insane charge.
A note on the Swords of Chaos is that, whilst the overall unit has less health, each individual model has more health than basic chaos knights
yeah, there's a big difference in health per entity there
normal ones have 135 HP per entity
Swords of Chaos have 316 HP per entity. that's 2.3 times more. pair that up with Festus or any lore of Nurgle caster and you've got a unit that will keep its full effectiveness far longer because they'll simply take longer to kill.
@@Eclipsed_Embers or, because WOC have access to a lot of powerful vortexes, charge the S.O.C in, and cast either pit of shades, purple sun, flame storm, infernal gateway, or hell even blight boil and final transmutation, centered on them.
Then heal up whatever damage the SOC took from the spell
After seeing the comments, when need a comparaison test between the Swords of Chaos and the regular ones.
Something missed here and in the skaven clan rat RR(maybe other tier lists) are some units have different types of attacks. Mirror guard get magic attacks over the marked counterpart which can be good or bad depending on the force you are fighting. Thought it was worth a note.
When would magic attacks be a bad thing? There's no more magic resistance since it was replaced by spell resistance, meaning that magic attacks are purely beneficial since they negate physical resistance.
09:02 "fuck U" made of the desktop icons...nice
Good timing, legend. Was About to buy a few dlcs from IG
FYI the new WoC LL from the new DLC can recruit the demonic RoR, but only those of their respective god. ex Valkia can get the exalted bloodletters RoR, Festus gets the exalted plaguebearers RoR, etc.
Do the Swords of Chaos deal less damage though? Knights are not a missile unit so I think it's a little unfair to say the 60 regular Knights will deal 60 times their weapon damage since you probably won't get more than 20 to attack at a time. If both units fight to the death against low armored infantry the regular ones might deal more overall, but I wouldn't be suprised if the RoR beats the regular Knights head to head
Swords of Chaos beat normal chaos knights by a long shot, i say as a chaos main. So I am genuinely surprised Legend of all people said they are worst than the original knights
@@ixavdacity Eh. Typical Anti-cav bias showing in video again.
Skull crushers ror is insane. They go trough units like nothing, bouncing between targets with them is insane. They delete archers almost instantly, it should be rated better than original. Its not just anti infantry difference.
I don't know how often you read these comments Legend, but Swords of Chaos can hit up to 3 enemies in one attack which equals out to more damage. The less models a unit has; the more HP per model there is, therefore they survive much better. You also completely skimmed over the fact that when they're with 35m of a lord or hero, they give +15% physical resistance. They also have 70% of their damage as AP damage, which already makes them better than normal Chaos Knights in dealing with anything that isn't chaff.
You've also forgotten on literally almost every RoR having 1 of 3 things, poison, magic, or fire attacks, or again, another special trait that the original doesn't. There was only one singular RoR that you even mentioned to having the bonus attack damage type and that was Knights of the Brazen Throne.
Mirror Guard: Magic Attacks
Summoner's of Rage: Magic Attacks
Swords of Chaos: Flaming Attacks/Guardian
The Severed Claw: Magic Attacks/Charge Reflection/Expert Charge Defence/Barrier
The Sibilant Slaughtercade: Poison Attacks
Bilious Thunderguff: Poison Attacks/Violent Wind's Corroded Armour (-30 Armour that can spread up to 5 units)
Every single RoR has something over the original units, so this list is so incredibly inaccurate.
I'd imagine that the Swords of Chaos would be a good choice vs low entity count/lord/hero sniping as there's less entities to get clumped up and derp out trying to attack their target. Lower entity count also means its easier for it to retain strength from battle to battle in the event you need to fight more than one in your emergency.
Swords of Chaos are good in all cases, they massacre other cavalry, take out lords pretty well, and do very well against infantry ESPECIALLY if used alongside Archaon which they are intended for
I feel like video talking about the unit cards and what can appear on them might be more useful. You could explain in what situation any particular attribute/ability/resistance/etc are effective, and when they are not.
For the most part, these RoR tier lists are just looking at the cards and seeing what is different; giving people the tools to understand those differences might be more useful than a case-by-case look.
Im pretty sure the nurgle giants AOE spell is also armour sundering, not sure if that will change your rating. But i thought it was worth mentioning.
For the swords of chaos, you have to keep in mind, they may have less units but that doesn't necessarily mean less damage. When you charge in with 60 knights, not all of them will connect and deal damage, some will get stuck behind those in front, not actually attacking, so multiplying their damage by 60 is not accurate in practice. The swords of chaos have less units but are more efficient in dealing their damage and since ideally with cavalry you wanna charge in then back out, they will hit harder then are meant to be cycle charged. It's also easier to disengage with them as less units means it's less likely that units will get bogged down. I actually quite like them in campaign but I don't play on very hard battle difficulty.
Severed Claw gets all the bonuses from the tech tree, can confirm. Can't remember if they get additional barrier with the specific tech but they do get strider, regeneration, frenzy etc.
They do get the additional barrier added to their original barrier value.
Regarding the Swords of Chaos- there is a lot more going on than you may think. First, each entity has massively increased health and mass. They are more difficult to bog down, and can take a lot more damage before losing an entity meaning all entities are doing damage for longer. I haven’t checked in the editor, but there’s often another stat difference between these unit sizes: the direction each entity can attack. In 48+ units, attacks are usually forward facing only. A unit with 24 entities or fewer usually can attack in 360 degrees.
300+ is a truly hefty amount of health for a cavalry entity, as opposed to 130~ which can be killed in 3 halberd swings.
Coupled with their impressive armor piercing, they are character killers. In fact, the 24 of them actually do 25% more total armor piercing than all 60 of the original unit. The charge is also more impactful, literally, due to the fewer more massive entities. The physics are amplified further by Apocalyptic Charge than if it applied to a more numerous unit.
Now we know why legend said on stream recently that he hates making tier lists. He's been making tier lists.
The swords of chaos also give defense to your lord if they are close to them. And they get splash attacks on up to 3 entities which makes them hit more units than standard chaos knights.
For reference, I think the Monogod Warriors (Vilitch, Valkya, etc.) just get the Exalted Lesser Daemon Regiment of Renown of their respective God.
Confirmed the Servered Claws can access every upgrade the vanilla Aspiring Champions have, making them even more beastly.
The Sword of Chaos used to be nearly unstoppable on tabletop when in Archaon's army.
You should try the units before (I know it would require time) or make a demo because the splash attack is quite effective against infantry and they are more than OK versus some monstruous units.
I think 1 mistake you do Legend is, giving numbers too much importance.
The thing is, in choke points having more brute strenght is way better than having more numbers.
Thats why the Swords of Chaos deal more dmg. Their 24 models actually attack.
The 60 normal Knights wont all attack. Depending on the situation maybe half of them. And then you suddenly compare 20 to 30 units and not 24 to 60.
For Range units its a diffrent story, but for Meele units quantitiy is definitly not a clear case if more = better
You do my black horsey boys dirty! Less unit size but higher damage per model is great! Seldom do all entities fight in a whole unit anyhow, meaning higher dps, and against single entities, and in chokes, and easier to move through gaps, and better staying power/model... Then there is that high armour piercing making them kings against other cavalry. Them boys be good! Still love all your videos, very helpful! :)
The severed claw do get all of archeon's bonuses from campaign. They get RIDICULOUS at the endgame vs almost anything, not just large.
Are they champions DLC exclusive?
@@DIEGhostfish I do not know. I bought the dlc before trying archeon
Swords of Chaos also has Guardian and immune to psychology... but I suspect they are designed this way because you are meant to use them together with (mainly) Archaon (being the remains of his personal/first warband), so they are like the Severed Claw in the sense that you use the RoR unit in a different manner than you would with the regular version.
Another problem with their cost in campaign is that they actually have higher upkeep usually than the base unit. Something that a normal unit at rank 9 would not have. Making regiments of renown much more expensive than their base counterpart over time.
The Severed Claw ROR does benefit from technologies which buff Aspiring Champions, so i'd say they are far superior than the original in any case.
The severed claws also have charge reflection and expert charge defense.
Severed Claw has double the barrier of normal aspiring champions, because all the tech applies to them. So they start out with 1k barrier, and then get an extra 1k on top when you research teh tech that gives normal champions their 1k barrier. It's really good! Plus all the other aspiring champion buffs, of course.
Mirror guard ; Forgot magic attacks were added
Wyrd Spawn ; in campiagn ALL spawn can get terror via a tech (can be gotten as your 3rd tech)
Summoner of Rage ; Magic attacks too
Knights of the Brazen throne ; Regular have bronze shields ,RoR doesn't
Thundergruff ; on Fetus he is great (more missile resist,melee defense and so on) but unsure on archeon also forgot poison
Severed claw ; Charge reflection & standard halberd things also expert charge defense if I recall correctly
Final note
Swords of Chaos have splash attacks apperently + Guardian
Soul of Damnation also has an insane aim. Once it fires it shot is quite unlikely it will miss. One of the best pieces of artillery in the game, though it doesn't state it in its stats.
Isnt that with Hellcannons in general? Could have sworn their shots home in.
idk man, knights of the brazen throne are pretty insane against any infantry, they just buldoze through dealing massive amounts of damage and go out the other side like the enemy wasn't even there
Hey Legend, maybe add a tier for sidegrades like the severed claw? would make them less weird to grade I think!
I think it wouldn't be a bad idea to have another category for certain units that while are similar, serve a completely different role than the original. Like the Severed Claw or Brazen Throne unit, where each do better against certain units compared to what even their standard counter part can do.
As you said throw the Severed Claw against a large unit, it's dead, or you don't focus them down and they catch one of your large entities or cav units, they aren't going to be around for long.
I didn't purchase this DLC yet, but thank you Legend for covering the new units! I have yet to see any of these units in action yet and this tierlist is good for the decision making process
Here's an unsolicited Champions of Chaos advert :P
Just finished a long Immortal Empires Valkia campaign and I'd say get it. I had a blast with just that one campaign and I'm excited to try the others out. I simp Valkia she is an ez 9/10 campaign imo.
If you want a simple campaign, start with Valkia, she snowballs out of control just by winning battles. Pick a direction and kill everything in a straight line, her faction makes an absurd amount of money per battle won; with each LL you kill adding like 20k+ monies to your hoard and each victory adding campaign movement range so enemy armies can't really run from you by retreating as Valkia can run cowards down on the campaign map from behind.
Early game is pretty challenging in IE as you are surrounded by chad LLs that hate your guts, I got into scraps with Malekith, Grombrindal, Hellebrond, Sigvald, Bellakor, Allith Anar, Sister's of Twilight and Grand Hierophant Khotep in the first 50 turns. It's manageable as long as you can string a couple of wins together in a row although the Dark Elves are extremely dangerous early game as Dark Shards shred your early game units.
So I shill Champions of Chaos DLC, it was worth it alone for the 36 or so hours of fun I had with Valkia. Money well spent.
I think I'm going to start a Vilitch campaign now.
I just found it cute how the mirror guard were originally designed to have the exact same movement speed as Sigvald the Magnificent to keep up with him - Just like how Archaeon has his Swords of Chaos buddies with Guardian to keep him company. Kholek Suneater doesn't really need buddies, but I guess he's got the Summoners of Rage if someone really wants to go thematic.
Swords of Chaos grant 15% phys resist to lords and heroes in an aoe around them. They work well with Archaen since he gets immediate access to them and his kindleflame passive when casting boosts their damage output
You know the research that gives Aspiring Champions Barrier? It works for the severed claw too, meaning they get EVEN MORE Barrier. So yes, the severed claw get the tech buffs of regular Aspiring Champions, and it is hilarious.
I disagree about Swords Of Chaos. yes, the entity count is smaller, but you never gonna utilize all 60 entities of regular chaos knights
Aspiring champions can be buffed AF in the tech tree, so you cant simply compare them
The RoR also gets ALL the buffs from the techtree too so it's actually comparable.
@@kubka4 Oh, goch. For some reason I though they dont
@@kubka4 All but one of them.
@@DIEGhostfish which one?
@@kubka4 Legion of Doom.
I’m really excited for if you will make a video on how the units for all factions in general play nowadays in IE. I understand that’s a massive task for you and you wanna finish regs of renown before you do any of that. But man, it feels like everything plays so differently now
Very specific, but also helpful. Thanks!
Very minor, but the Summoners of Rage also have magic attack while the normal Dragon Ogres don't. Don't think it's enough to change their rating, just wanted to point it out!
After playing Valkia, it's worth noting that she does in fact get access to the Hellforged Host Exalted Bloodletters, but from what I can tell she doesn't get the Beastmen Giant.
She doesn’t get the Heralds on Bloodcrushers either which is a damn thing shame frankly speaking.
Legend, comment from a Multiplayer user but that i believe can be really usefull when rating units even if it is from campaing:
In the moment u talk about Chaos Knights RoR and u say "Fire reduces Healing" be careful because it only reduces healing that comes strictly from the passive ability "Regeneration", Nurgles spells that heal or Vampire counts ones are not affected by this, at least for what we can read in the stats showed up in the screen, ive not done the calculations but i assume it is the way it works, and btw u have missed the Guardian perk on the Chaos Knights RoR and they are also inmune to psychology and another hidden stat that doesnt show and a sub below has stated too is that they have splash attacks, they are actually doing x3 attacks per entity, so they are basically dishing out more damage than their normal variant does, when doing this videos i would highly recommend u Legend, that u use the TWWStats website, because it shows up a lot of hidden stadistics that arent shown in the actual game, for example, dwarven cannons are the most accurate ones among all despite empire ones costing the same 800 Gold, hope this works for future videos
So fire is DOUBLE useful against the regen trait since it's 25%more damagr AND halved healing, but doesn't effect any other type? (I think that it might effect healing spells, those are generally labled as "regeneration"
@@DIEGhostfish i dont know where everyone got the idea that fire halves any healing source when it isnt said anywhere in the stats of the game, the only ability that gives weakness to fire its that concrete ability because it stricly says that the ones that has that suffer from 25% weakness to fire
@@Im_Anthonyy But Regeneration itself doesn't say halved healing when on fire. Just the 25% so if it's halvinv healing it likely halves all healing but the inbuilt regen effect is an extra 25% weak.
@@DIEGhostfish ure overcomplicating things that arent complicated, forget everything u have heard and check the in game stats, just that, "Regeneration" Gives healing per second with the drawback of adding fire weakness, so as long as we know, units with that abd only that are weak to fire, for the rest of things test them yourself but the game doesnt say anything
@@Im_Anthonyy Yet the On Fire status effect is a totally different thing from fire weakness.
Thanks for the breakdown legend. 👍
Maybe worth remembering that if you're using plagues right then the Nurgle giant will have Vanguard Deployment
Something you missed with the knights of the brazen throne is that they look absolutely badass. They may not be far superior than the original in combat, but they are far superior to the original in style 😎
I feel like the severed claw are one of the best ror, I keep them behind my lines, summon some demons, they go stalk and then they just hunt down any large units or hero’s and delete them so quickly. Even when fighting regular units they fuck so hard, that AP is crazy in some match ups
Given all the different units, heros and lords Warriors of Chaos has, I'd love to see.some tier lists for them.
Perhaps this is a more non-AI argument but I find healing to be very strong in WH3 so it seems bringing fire is much more needed then previously
The severed claw do get all the tech tree bonuses. I ran a belakor campaign and my god aspiring champions are amazing
I will say, for the Chaos Knights, lower unit count does mean each individual entity has a larger share of the total health pool, so they’re less likely to lose a unit during a charge. Still probably worse than the original, though
Yesterday in my Bretonia campaign had the pleasue to square of against those 7th Claw Guys in Belakors army.
Those bastards where almost unkillable with my Questing Knights xD
pretty postive severed claw do get all of the buffs during archaon campaign.
Every time I jump on a LoTW video I can't help but see Ricky from Trailer Park Boys as his channel pic.
I hate to nit-pick, but when you were talking about the Mirror Guard and Summoners of rage, you ignored the addition of magical attacs, which is in Warhammer 3 very strong feature. Otherwise, nice video 😁
Probably someone said it before but the Champions of Chaos factions CAN get access to the demonic RoRs. For example, Festus gets access to the Festering Stooges. I am assuming the other CoCs can as well.
B-b-b-ut, Legend, I want to sponsor greedy corporates and buy games and DLC's for full price.
I hate advertising and all that stuff but... I have to say Instant Gaming never failed to me when others big websites did scam and stole money like fucking G2A.
So I don't like watching advs in a video... But I don't like G2A and many youtubers still collaborate with them so that's why I took my time.
Fuck G2A, InsGaming never failed to me
Severed claw is vastly superior. Low armored units wont be able to dent their armor and even get through their barrier. Even archers will have a hard time getting through unless they are armor piercing.
u probably get this question a lot but is tww3 worth buying atm or should i wait (for a discount for example)?
i think it initially got poor reviews due to bugs and just unbalanced/not so fun gameplay mechanics (might be misremembering, been a while since i looked up most reviews)
just wondering if most of the big problems got resolved yet.
there is this super popular build with vilich that uses chosen and the severed claw on multiplayer and it is pretty good vilich regens their shields
The soul of Damnation previously possessed a unique passive ability which changed to single use. It should drop a tier in my estimation.The Swords of Choas and Severed Claw should raise two respective tiers.
The Severed Claw have superior combat stats in thier supreme armour-piercing weapon strength and fantastic anti-large bonus across multiple entities.
Although they lose silver shields, their barrier and additional tech upgrades add more barrier on top of other combat attributes, completely offsetting missing health. Wielding Halberds, they have charge reflection. Furthermore, they have expert charge defense which means they take less damage at the beginning of a fight from all a charging enemies, big or small. You think too strictly in terms of speciality and underestimate their armour-piercing.
They only have four less melee defense at equivalent max experience to their generic variant and make up for ten less melee attack with thier armour-piercing then anti-large; they need fewer attacks to kill their deadliest, biggest armoured foes.
Swords of Chaos, upon charging, do not all engage at once; the front only do. The unit size factors in less with regards to that. Moreover, when they lose half their health, those entities in it are liklier survivors compared to their equivalent, which would lose between 13 to 25 riders optimally. The charge from Swords of Chaos is more valuable, thanks to their high armour-piercing weapon strength. Therefore, Their damage output is highest.
Why do I keep watching these when I know damn well that I only play skaven?
Knight of Brazen Throne at least better than original. Their charge is much better then regular one, they can make flee up to t3 unit (depends on unit type) in single charge. Amazing chivalry.
Could you do a comparison for the new Lords in WoC and Mono armies? I feel like the new Daemon Princes are flat out better than the Exalted Greater Daemons, at leeast from Tzeentch, feelingwise...
The best Daemon Princes are Nurgle ones (Exalted Great Unclean Ones are glorified giants in terms of combat effectiveness), the worst are Khorne ones (worse stat-wise than Exalted Bloodthirsters)
Mirror Guard and Summoners of Rage have magical attack
Swords of Chaos have Guardian
Knights of the brazen Throne don't have shields
Sibiliant Slaughtercade have poison
The giant ror has poison.
It seems even legend forgets the mark of nurgle adds poison attacks.
Technically villitch can get the pink horrors regiment of renown, some of the deamonic regiments of renown can be found in the warriors of chaos race
the Daemonic RoR are restricted to their respective champion (and those champions can't get the RoRs of the other gods so no Billious Thundergruff, Mirror Guard, ect for Vilitch, just the Tzeentch and Undivided ones), in this video he was only going over ones that Archaon can get.
This will help my Archaeon Campaign
The fact that the Knights of Immolation don't count as a WoC RoR confuses me to no end. Not even Vilitch can get them in my current campaign.