FTR your Manscaped link doesn't seem to work for me (possibly others?). Don't see any of your 20% discounts being applied, shipping is already free, and can't actually add click anything nor add things to cart without being redirected away from your link and to the main website. I hope they're not screwing you by doing this intentionally, but maybe something worth checking with them?
@@fornalotta8767 pretty sure pestilens only gets bonuses from skaven plague. need to check but nurgle units are useless to skaven, their roster is like x10 better
- Khorne factions hate each other - You are not immune to plagues even if you are allied with Nurgle - Tzeentch is weird - Don't accept anything those seducers offer you because there's always a downside. Seems legit lol. Love how lore accurate it turned out to be.
the Chorf Contempt mechanic might also make Chaos Dwarves not care about outpost units routing and vise versa, assuming chorfs can even get outposts set up with the way their cities work.
Note on personal experience vassalizing Greenskins: they're the only vassals I've ever had that can really kick ass on their own without you babysitting them. I had vassalized Grimgor as Kholek, and when Cathay declared war on me he invaded them with a handful of strong armies and whipped the shit out of them. He occupied the whole of Cathay proper without any support from me.
I find Wood Elves incredibly competent too, for obvious auto-resolve reasons. Not very good at expansion, but for a magnet for the enemy, they can hold forever.
Grimgor gets buffs when playing as Kholek I’m pretty sure (but would have to check the table to confirm). Also if the GS endgame has already triggered by the time you subjugated him, he retains most of the endgame buffs too (which are huge), don’t know if that was the case in your campaign. Also unlike landlocked norsca they have good economy and pretty good roster. The only downside is that aversion might be a bit of a problem although I've never seen a vassal breaking free like in WH2
Tzeentch factions being paradoxically great allies feels exactly on point. If there was ever a faction that could be described as a frenemy, it is a Tzeentch faction.
Speaking of vassals, in my current game with Yao Ming, we're order tiding the hell out of the world, and everything was going smoothly. That was until N'Kari, with his 2 settlements, somehow managed to vassalize Bretonnia, who had 38 settlements. That was something I certainly didn't see coming. I love surprises.
I would love to get a landmark tier list. Which settlements and landmarks are absolutely always worth trying to get and which are more meh? Are there landmarks which are not even worth building over regular buildings?
There are absolutely landmarks not worth building over normal buildings. Cathay has a couple that are purely local, non-economic benefits in areas that are nearly 100% secure once you take them, for example.
There is a small advantageous niche when it comes to having Vampires as an ally, when it comes to their ally-recruitment pool; The Balefire Corpse Cart - just get one of these and suddenly you can have an infantry blob around it getting +5 to Melee Attack/Defence, along with getting Magical AND Flaming Attacks, since it's only the passive healing effect that is limited to just undead units. Also, fun fact: Cathay has an easier time being friends with Tzeentch, probably for lore reasons, as their aversion is only a -40 compared to a -100 other races might have. ...Just don't expect them to get along with any other Order-Tide friends you might have been making.
Did they fix the balefire cart bug where it wasn't applying the imbuement? Cuz last time I checked the cart was a couple months ago, but it was still bugged to not apply it's auras
If I recall correctly Tzeentch has a cult in Cathay, basically theres obsidian colored birdmen(not beastmen birdmen) in Cathay that try to influence stuff behind the scenes
Even as Lizardman its pretty hard to engage other Lizardman in diplomacy because of thier "cold resoning" diplomacy you have to really pay or work around wars to get evan the slightest positiv relation.
This game definitely needs an option to dissuade military allies on declaring war on other factions, maybe by spending alliance points (appropriately representing your influence on them)
I'm sorry to hear about the break-in! People are assholes. On a lighter note, if you want to do another tier list, I'd like to see all of the factions' units & heroes revisited, after the patches, balance changes, and maybe newfound appreciation for certain units, that would be super helpful to see.
I found Daniel to be a really good ally (and eventually vassal) in my Archaon campaign. You can leave him his starting province (the major settlement is not a dark fortress) and that will already give you access to a lot of units, eventually he likes you so much he accepts vassalization, and once you start getting out of the Chaos Wastes, you can gift him settlements for even more units, also WoC can actually boost demons in their skill tree, even those they don't have access to (i often give Sigvald some Seekers of Slaneesh and he does give them the cavalry boosts)
honestly a lot of this list seems like it's done from the point of view of an order faction like a bunch of those factions in the bad allies section are pretty fine allies if you yourself are a chaos faction and the reasons given for Slannesh being bad (Seductive influence) only apply if you're playing a Human faction, Elf faction (which makes it odd that he singled out Morathi, an elf, as someone that can make allies with them), or Beastmen. it's completely safe if you're playing as Vampire Counts, Dwarfs, Greenskins, Lizardmen, Skaven, Tomb Kings, Vampire Coast, Khorne, Nurgle, Slannesh, Tzeentch, DoC, or Ogres and should be safe for Chaos Dwarfs too.
@@Eclipsed_Embers Skaven make great allies for Archaon, the only thing WoC lacks in their roster is strong artillery, you can get both plagueclaw catapults and warp lightning cannons from the skaven. You don't generally want more than 4 units of artillery anyway, it's not like you're playing Balthasar Gelt.
@@Eclipsed_Embers Yeah, and tbh i don't actually find that Chaos is more unreliable than average, Kislev for example has betrayed my alliance plenty of time when playing as Cathay/Empire, the only truly reliable order factions are High Elves in my experience
@@JustSome462 honestly I find that the unreliability only really applies to a few very specific factions. specifically Arkhan and the vampires (if you're playing a non-vampiric race. otherwise they're pretty good allies) and the Skaven (I've never found any way to get the Skaven to actually stick to a deal, but if there's any race that'd be unreliable they're the most fitting for it) as for more reliable factions even High Elves start to get a bit unreliable if they don't like you. I've had multiple times when I've tried trapping them in non-aggression pacts or defensive/military alliances to basically just stop them from declaring war on me, they seemingly wait the bare minimum number of turns to avoid reliability penalties, break each of the agreements 1 by 1, and then declare war
Being allied to skaven as skarbrand can make some op army comps. Having the ultra bulky khorne chosen warriors and 4 death globes behind them makes for impenetrable lines. Getting catapults also work great but the globes can follow the chosen in settlement fights obliterating everything in their path. I always make friends with Queek whenever I play skarbrand.
I actually like making an alliance with Skaven to get their plague claw catapults and their units that drill through walls. It’s very helpful for segue battles with green skins and chaos
Exactly. You can only get 4 ally units per army anyway. So limited rec on their is not a big deal. Especially when you have 4 TK allys. Early game, their infantry may be garbage tier, but when your poor free skeleton archers are nice. Later you can get their artillery and constructs. Even if you only get one catapult, sphinx, Ashanti bow, and some other random unit that is a powerful FREE boost to an army.
Helstorms and other good artillery units are usually cheap in Allegiance points for the impact they can have, especially early game if you can grab some Mortars with about 7 cost from Empire or VCoast.
That really sucks about the break in, also coming from a Manscape owner they are great products. I am a hairy beast of a man and what used to take me 3 hours with my last razor to defur it takes about 20 minutes with my Manscape 4.0. Also they provide this wildly crazy suggestion of putting newspaper down below where you shave to make it easier to clean. Thats a S Tier life hack if Ive seen it
As Chaos Dwarves, I've found Kholek to be an awesome ally. He has a massive powerful army and he just wants to kill things, so you invite him to attack your enemies... and he does, with prejudice.
Hey Legend love your content, been a fan for a while- but I think you missed something crucial about the Tomb Kings that would potentially put them higher on the list. If you ally recruit units from them you don't pay upkeep. As their units have no upkeep you don't pay for upkeep as well. Hope you're doing well. Also lemme know if I'm wrong or you disagree. Love learning from you & I could just be overvaluing this. I just wanted to bring it up as you didn't mention it.
My first Ikit Claw playthrough I made a non aggression pact with the beastmen on turn 3 for 14k. Using this 14k I gave them back multiple gifts of gold which allowed me to form a military alliance with them on turn 4. Great times
One note on skaven as an ally: Nurgle syncs very well with skaven as allies because access to some of their artillery and ranged units can be an awesome addition to their forces. Warp lightning cannons, for example, give nurgle valuable anto large at range. The negatives of skaven as allies are mitigated by the fact that most factions aren't going to like you anyways because you're demons. You might be drawn into a lot of wars, but typically those are wars you'll be dragged into anyways eventually. I guess not having skaven allies might allow you to keep the peace for a bit longer, but if you're worried about armies coming from a direction you don't have force's consolidated then you always have kugaths plague cultists and instant recruitment
Always ally with Skaven as Khorne. Queek is the best. He typically won't betray you, as you are too powerful. Even if he does.... You don't really care. You are at war with everyone anyway, and it's just more rat skulls for the throne.
I always come back to your videos after every so months, play it in the background and I love the info, thank you for making videos man. probably been following you since warhammer 2 days. wanted to say thanks
Thanks for doing this, That's actually extremely useful info for alliances. I did vassalize skaven once while playing as nurgle to get gunners and artillery. Was somewhat useful. Also sorry to hear of the break in, though that's some recommendation that the product is as good as jewelry.
15:00 This actually surprised me. I often ally with Queek Headtaker if he is on any of my borders because he seems to go in the opposite direction of whichever side I am on. When I play Wurzag, I always ally with him, support him in a few fights with the dwarves, and let him rampage north while I go south.
if you like playing vamp counts then be sure to vassalize drycha, the corrupted temple means her own armies are immune to corruption attrition, way watchers are great with blood dragons and in campaigns she serves as a good buffer for the northern front allowing you to nuke down altdorf
Did that as Vlad and Ungrim shifted from loving me (alliance, +300 relations) to hating me beyond your comprehension (-1200 relations) because he hates Drycha so much. But... he never declared war.
What do you mean allying with skaven is a bad idea, fellow filthy man-thing? They are a very trustworthy-treacherous allies, and you should give them all your warpstone, yes-yes.
Playing as wood elves, sometimes I love the beastmen I'm at war with. If all the stars align correctly: no corruption in forest and Heathlands are afflicted which means permanent ruin - which itself means the forest grows! Sisters of Twilight and Taurox usually happens just this perfect harmony.
Did a Legendary Grom campaing recently, and after killing all the brettonians and WElfs had a good enough relation with Ikit Claw to start an alliance. It was the best decision ever, having access to Plague Catapults in the early game really helps a lot of the gobbos crapstacks I've had as a GreenSkin, and since everybody hates you anyways Ikit couldn't drag me into wars that I wasn't already in.
LOL i make it a goal of every campaign possible to have 2 ratling gunners in every single stack regardless of what race/faction I'm playing as. Skaven make great allies for Norsca. They come colonize the ruins that Norsca has to leave all over the map, and provide a valuable service in ratlings and plagueclaws.
Restricted but free units still pretty good, in my Thorek run Khalida and Settra was my great traditionalist ally. A Necrosphinx for team up with the Thorek's Carnosaur was very fun.
@@simonteyssedre3261 when playing volkmar i just get 4 skele spearmen on every lord, including little trash lords who only exist to level up They mostly replace my empire spearmen since i go pretty range heavy with extra lords
i don´t know if this still works Butt, as tzench you can give tier 5 settlements to the beastmen and recruit free units from them to make a easy replaceble frontline
9:46 while this is true in practical terms, I'm a sucker for saying "I own Trees" and having single-settlement provinces (easy to manage) that I can generally turn into "outposts" for regions that I don't have much presence in yet, and have as recruitment hubs so that those building slot aren't taken up in my important provinces, and can then dedicate the latter for other things. Part of this is also super-personal bias, as while I haven't played any Wood Elf campaigns yet, I'm DYING to get on one and experience what I imagine is a vastly different playstyle from anything I've managed thus far
The only thing I can think of is remembering which faction is listed as the endgame crisis if you have it on. It can be rather unfortunate to suddenly get backstabbed by a bunch of stacks of something from a faction you thought liked you.
In regards to units zoats and rev crystal bastillodons can bring healing to any faction. Also while i have not tested this myself i belive corpse carts and mortis engines could be great for coast or tomb kings to have acces to.
I've played as Ogres in an unmodded IE co-op game. My friends were able to recruit crushers from me. I think having a camp in that province/region/catchment area allows them more recruitment than just from the normal settlement structures.
having alliance with Morathi or Malekith is actually pretty good when you play sisters of twilight they protect your borders and they help you invading the donut
I think Tomb Kings having almost no money also works in your favor for securing treaties, because they'll accept small amounts of gold instead of huge fortunes. I don't know how much it helps, but I like allying with Cathayan factions early on to beef up the Gate garrisons with my outposts. Most Beastmen units have caps but are totally free of gold upkeep and even seem to be relatively cheap in allegiance cost. Being able to recruit dirt cheap Bretonnian peasant mobs into my Empire armies early on was amazing, but sometimes it's hard to get Louen to concede to that early alliance.
In general I agree with your take on HE, but in my recent Tyrion campaign, Alarielle had +47 relations with Ellyrion and they had at trade and at least one more agreement and Alarielle declared war on them regardless, breaking the treaties in the process. Might be a scripted event, I noticed her declaring war on Ellyrion every single campaign when I'm nearby.
I was playing Arkhan the Black and allied with Mannfred and was like “sweet, I get to add some more vampire counts units to my armies” and was highly disappointed that I had to pay the unit upkeep, which is a huge problem for tomb kings since their entire economy is based around not paying upkeep.
@legendoftotalwar hey man would be interesting if you could make a tier list for items, banners and followers. Maybe one video for unique items for LL’s and another video for items and banners that every faction can get as drops. Take care ❤️
Allying with vampire cost is really a double edged sword I think. On one hand you can have some artillery and ranged units for factions that lacks the option (like as when playing vampire counts), but they tend to be ennemies with every faction around them and they tend to get you involved in their wars before being nuked. I'm currently trying to do a Nagash-themed campaign with Arkhan the black, and now I have bretonians and lizardmen beelining to my western coast.
I have found that balefire carts from VC can be really cheeky with the right dwarf armies, not only does the AoE magic damage area make them more effective against daemons but dwarves are one of the few factions that can really cheese fire vunerbility, they can achieve 60% fire vunerbility on enemies thanks to ironbeard ring, ironbeard giving flamable to thanes and you can squeeze out the final 20% using the fire wizard gotten via the battle for Ubersriek or via theft from other factions
Cathay artillery is fantastic as Imrik since it's flaming damage and he reduces enemy fire resistance and makes it weakness. A battery of grand cannons can absolutely pummel single entities in a single volley with this. And they're better than bolt throwers.
Very interesting tier list, Legend. Which makes me think... could you imagine a tier-list (or not a tier-list form) but some sort of "good matchup vs. bad matchup" faction to play as coop IE games? I often play TW:W3 IE game with one or another friend and it's always interesting to imagine which duo of factions to play is a cool matchup (but not one that have terrible diplomacy synergy). For instance, i'm currently playing Slaanesh, while buddy is playing Skaven.... And while it's cool to play, we found out it's a REALLY terribly bad matchup alliance, diplomatically speaking, for nearly all the AI faction. (nearly everyone hate my friend for being skaven, + many for being allied with slaanesh (=me). And most my potential vassals hate me (=slaanesh) because i'm ally with a skaven). Could you imagine a quick video about which faction can coop. with which faction easily without screwing-up the campaign diplomacy game of both side ? That would be great.
My brother and I basically only do immortal empires co-op, big fans of vampire counts and wood elf and skaven and wood elf. Wood elves don't really care much about the diplomacy of other races, and you get the confederation quests for the other WE factions, and their roster is pretty decent for other races. Vampire counts bring bodies to clog up the frontlines and are easy cannon fodder that you dont have to worry about friendly fire, since it's all cheap units, and you can help turbo your wood elf ally as Helman ghorst by abandoning your capital at haunted forest at the end of turn 9, wood elf teleports over with a single lord and settles the tree, which gives them a tree to start getting upgraded for the forest health and landmark, you don't really need that tree anyway, and they now have a forward base to start shipping armies out of in your territory. Skaven and wood elves is fun because they are close to skavenblight if you aren't playing clan skryer, and if you are, then you can meet up and slap Carcassonne, plus your rosters fit different niches, wood elf infantry holds the line better than skaven does, and skaven artillery is quite helpful for the wood elves, and the weapons teams all fit into the WE armies neatly. That's just my experience with my co-op campaigns with my brother, there's definitely other factions that do well too, lizardmen with the revivification crystal bastilidon being able to give revivals to factions that don't have healing, or have high health, low entity count units is quite a blessing. Hope any of this helps, and enjoy the co-op!
You can pair tomb kings woth just about anyone for no hassle. Upkeep free units, for your friend to pull from outposts. Though no-minimal income of their own, makes using outpost troops hard to afford. Beastmen+anything chaos/skaven/ogres. Others chaos factions are neutral to you being allied to a beastman, so it doesn't hurt. Again sharing upkeep free troops, really helps others in the early game.
That video made me think that a campaign solely focused on borrowing armies from allies would be quite fun. Ruleset i quickly thought up: You are resticted to one player army per two full provinces under your control. You focus on building an alliance as fast as possible and focus on allliance quests to generate points. Borrow armies from your ally asap and as often as you can to expand your territories. Would really like to see which race to pick and how far and fast people can get with a playstyle focused on making alliances. Would you be able for example put the whole world under your alliance and how fast could you do that?
in my experience Warriors Chaos can pretty quickly end up with a decent number of options for army borrowing (mostly due to Norscan vassals) so for them it'll likely be quite easy (though it's a big shame (and a bit dumb) that the buffs the Champions give to vassal armies don't apply to armies borrowed from your vassals)
Playing as Skaven, Mal and/or his Mum are some of the best allies you will get. They only have -10 aversion, they usually do well and their trade deals can be huge income. Can confirm that playing as Beastmen Skaven are some of the best allies you will get. You will fight the same people and they will love you for it, they have not betrayed me once and you don't care about Skaven filth. You can trade with them (which is bizarre) but will only make tariff trickle income.
Vilitch is the best Ally, he randomly decides to give you three spawn too help you out in a pinch. Don't tell the folks at r/totalwar they still think it's a bug.
But Legend! - If you ally yourself with the Cathay, then you can't plunder their caravans for tons of cash! Also, there is a thing to be said while playing Khorne. - As Scarbrand get an alliance with Clan Mors, put 4 Plagueclaw Catapults in each one of your armies, then surround them with Warriors of Khorne (mainly shield variant), and suddenly you're better at this playstyle than the Dwarves. And if your Scaven besty declares on anyone, or anyone declares on you because of your besty; that's just an extra fun to be had.
Alright, so about that sponsorship... - Random guy breaks into your house - Takes the sponsorship package - Takes your birthday gift - Doesn't touch the TV and the console - Leaves the gaming PC alone - Refuses to ellaborate - Leaves Australia may have the highest concentration of lethal wildlife in the planet, but the burglars are either misunderstood geniuses or absolute morons. Well that certainly sucks.
my favourite ally as belakor is quickly going to the south and vassalising kairos he has since given me 12 settlements from random places usually near my border
I kept trading settlements with the wood elves and they just kept moving with me arross the map when i played belagar . it was the best campaign have ever had
I found vampire coast to be very good allies for slaneesh because both armies complement each other so well. Adding 2 mortars to slaneesh changes things tremendously!
Do you think its worth mentioning with the wood elves, that Drycha is (IMO) a bad ally for similar reasons as greenskins. Otherwise love your content mate! keep up the great work! I watch them all!
Another reason why Norsca makes great vassals for Warriors of Chaos is that the outpost building increases the amount of vassal income you get from them. Also, as Warriors of Chaos you can use alliances with Slaanesh factions to your advantage to create provinces with high Slaanesh corruption, which doesn't hurt WoC in order to more easily recruit Slaanesh marked units. Also, being seduced by Slaanesh as a WoC faction gives you Slaanesh army abilities, but at least in my last Archaon playthrough it seems they are bugged as you cannot charge them up to activate them, and when you hover over the bar to see what you need to do to charge them up it just gives a generic description of basically "do something to increase the charge on this bar."
Me, playing a Ku'Gath campaign with Tretch, Queek, Skarbrand, Kairos, Kholek and Vilitch as allies: But seriously, I just like rat/nurgle combo for vermintide flair, and I haven't played much demos so I figured to ally with rest of the demon cast so I could test out some higher units. Turns out exalted flamer is a real burninator, killed bunch of dryads AND my plaguebearers with one volley. Also allying with tzeench as nurgle was so blursed, even if it cucked my long victory it was worth it.
6:10 “ I would not ally with green skins even if I was playing green skins” That sounds pretty lore accurate. Atleast in 40k, they fight each other just as much as they fight the other races in the Galaxy and I assume that’s the case in Fantasy.
Races with good artillery make for good allies, especially if you're a faction with bad artillery. Playing as high elves, bretonnian trebuchets made things a whole lot more pleasant for most of my run. With artillery the 4-per-army restriction isn't even really a restriction.
Thanks to MANSCAPED for sponsoring today's video! Get 20% OFF + Free International Shipping on your order with my link manscaped.com/legendoftotalwar
FTR your Manscaped link doesn't seem to work for me (possibly others?). Don't see any of your 20% discounts being applied, shipping is already free, and can't actually add click anything nor add things to cart without being redirected away from your link and to the main website. I hope they're not screwing you by doing this intentionally, but maybe something worth checking with them?
It's bullshit that every faction can befriend one another
@@christiandauz3742 most of them only pretend to be your friend
Hey legend, what about allying with nurgle as clan pestilens? Those plagues give them tons of bonuses still don't they?
@@fornalotta8767 pretty sure pestilens only gets bonuses from skaven plague. need to check but nurgle units are useless to skaven, their roster is like x10 better
- Khorne factions hate each other
- You are not immune to plagues even if you are allied with Nurgle
- Tzeentch is weird
- Don't accept anything those seducers offer you because there's always a downside.
Seems legit lol. Love how lore accurate it turned out to be.
Yeah it's awesome, especially Slaanesh.
Nurgle is a great ally if you are playing clan pestilins, love them plagues
@@Raistlin663 don’t nurgle plagues count as a different plague to skaven plagues I seem to remember them not helping clan pestilence at one point
@@necfreon6259 i dunno, I know that plagues were broken entirely for at least one of the factions, maybe I'm just going off faulty memory
the Chorf Contempt mechanic might also make Chaos Dwarves not care about outpost units routing and vise versa, assuming chorfs can even get outposts set up with the way their cities work.
Note on personal experience vassalizing Greenskins: they're the only vassals I've ever had that can really kick ass on their own without you babysitting them. I had vassalized Grimgor as Kholek, and when Cathay declared war on me he invaded them with a handful of strong armies and whipped the shit out of them. He occupied the whole of Cathay proper without any support from me.
AI currently cant do much against the Greenskin Waaagh double armies. Major reason why Dwarfs lose almost always to them in the mountains, too.
I find Wood Elves incredibly competent too, for obvious auto-resolve reasons. Not very good at expansion, but for a magnet for the enemy, they can hold forever.
Grimgor gets buffs when playing as Kholek I’m pretty sure (but would have to check the table to confirm). Also if the GS endgame has already triggered by the time you subjugated him, he retains most of the endgame buffs too (which are huge), don’t know if that was the case in your campaign. Also unlike landlocked norsca they have good economy and pretty good roster. The only downside is that aversion might be a bit of a problem although I've never seen a vassal breaking free like in WH2
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I vassalized him very early on, no endgame event
So sorry to hear about the break-in, hope not much was stolen. Best wishes to you and Mrs. Legend
@@loneliberation3483 what
@@theonly802 someone broke in and burgled legend's home. Stole jewelry, packages, and some other things.
@@Ty5OO6OO yeah i know, replied to a comment calling him a sellout for some reason
@@Ty5OO6OO Lol, Legend has money enough to replace it all from ad income and sponsorships, sponsorships in particular give shittons of money.
@@DutchGuyMike okay? I was just answering the what question
Tzeentch factions being paradoxically great allies feels exactly on point.
If there was ever a faction that could be described as a frenemy, it is a Tzeentch faction.
Speaking of vassals, in my current game with Yao Ming, we're order tiding the hell out of the world, and everything was going smoothly. That was until N'Kari, with his 2 settlements, somehow managed to vassalize Bretonnia, who had 38 settlements.
That was something I certainly didn't see coming. I love surprises.
I would love to get a landmark tier list. Which settlements and landmarks are absolutely always worth trying to get and which are more meh? Are there landmarks which are not even worth building over regular buildings?
There are absolutely landmarks not worth building over normal buildings. Cathay has a couple that are purely local, non-economic benefits in areas that are nearly 100% secure once you take them, for example.
love how thematic and true to the lore most of the races works in this matter
There is a small advantageous niche when it comes to having Vampires as an ally, when it comes to their ally-recruitment pool; The Balefire Corpse Cart - just get one of these and suddenly you can have an infantry blob around it getting +5 to Melee Attack/Defence, along with getting Magical AND Flaming Attacks, since it's only the passive healing effect that is limited to just undead units.
Also, fun fact: Cathay has an easier time being friends with Tzeentch, probably for lore reasons, as their aversion is only a -40 compared to a -100 other races might have. ...Just don't expect them to get along with any other Order-Tide friends you might have been making.
Did they fix the balefire cart bug where it wasn't applying the imbuement? Cuz last time I checked the cart was a couple months ago, but it was still bugged to not apply it's auras
If I recall correctly Tzeentch has a cult in Cathay, basically theres obsidian colored birdmen(not beastmen birdmen) in Cathay that try to influence stuff behind the scenes
Even as Lizardman its pretty hard to engage other Lizardman in diplomacy because of thier "cold resoning" diplomacy you have to really pay or work around wars to get evan the slightest positiv relation.
This game definitely needs an option to dissuade military allies on declaring war on other factions, maybe by spending alliance points (appropriately representing your influence on them)
A lot of these alliances are ranked/play out very lore friendly. This is a great tier-list.
I'm sorry to hear about the break-in! People are assholes.
On a lighter note, if you want to do another tier list, I'd like to see all of the factions' units & heroes revisited, after the patches, balance changes, and maybe newfound appreciation for certain units, that would be super helpful to see.
I found Daniel to be a really good ally (and eventually vassal) in my Archaon campaign.
You can leave him his starting province (the major settlement is not a dark fortress) and that will already give you access to a lot of units, eventually he likes you so much he accepts vassalization, and once you start getting out of the Chaos Wastes, you can gift him settlements for even more units, also WoC can actually boost demons in their skill tree, even those they don't have access to (i often give Sigvald some Seekers of Slaneesh and he does give them the cavalry boosts)
honestly a lot of this list seems like it's done from the point of view of an order faction
like a bunch of those factions in the bad allies section are pretty fine allies if you yourself are a chaos faction
and the reasons given for Slannesh being bad (Seductive influence) only apply if you're playing a Human faction, Elf faction (which makes it odd that he singled out Morathi, an elf, as someone that can make allies with them), or Beastmen. it's completely safe if you're playing as Vampire Counts, Dwarfs, Greenskins, Lizardmen, Skaven, Tomb Kings, Vampire Coast, Khorne, Nurgle, Slannesh, Tzeentch, DoC, or Ogres and should be safe for Chaos Dwarfs too.
@@Eclipsed_Embers Skaven make great allies for Archaon, the only thing WoC lacks in their roster is strong artillery, you can get both plagueclaw catapults and warp lightning cannons from the skaven. You don't generally want more than 4 units of artillery anyway, it's not like you're playing Balthasar Gelt.
@@Eclipsed_Embers Yeah, and tbh i don't actually find that Chaos is more unreliable than average, Kislev for example has betrayed my alliance plenty of time when playing as Cathay/Empire, the only truly reliable order factions are High Elves in my experience
@@JustSome462 honestly I find that the unreliability only really applies to a few very specific factions. specifically Arkhan and the vampires (if you're playing a non-vampiric race. otherwise they're pretty good allies) and the Skaven (I've never found any way to get the Skaven to actually stick to a deal, but if there's any race that'd be unreliable they're the most fitting for it)
as for more reliable factions even High Elves start to get a bit unreliable if they don't like you. I've had multiple times when I've tried trapping them in non-aggression pacts or defensive/military alliances to basically just stop them from declaring war on me, they seemingly wait the bare minimum number of turns to avoid reliability penalties, break each of the agreements 1 by 1, and then declare war
Makes sense. These even feel very lore friendly, as did your explanations for how easy or difficult they are to deal with.
Imagine Legend explaining this in cinematic for Immortal Empires side by side with Karl
Just wait for AI tech to be a little better and we'll see it!!
Dwarves would hate it even more then, being below the elgi... Personally I love it lmao.
Being allied to skaven as skarbrand can make some op army comps. Having the ultra bulky khorne chosen warriors and 4 death globes behind them makes for impenetrable lines. Getting catapults also work great but the globes can follow the chosen in settlement fights obliterating everything in their path. I always make friends with Queek whenever I play skarbrand.
I actually like making an alliance with Skaven to get their plague claw catapults and their units that drill through walls. It’s very helpful for segue battles with green skins and chaos
tomb kings ally recruit units are upkeep free, which is a unique benefit.
Exactly. You can only get 4 ally units per army anyway. So limited rec on their is not a big deal. Especially when you have 4 TK allys.
Early game, their infantry may be garbage tier, but when your poor free skeleton archers are nice. Later you can get their artillery and constructs.
Even if you only get one catapult, sphinx, Ashanti bow, and some other random unit that is a powerful FREE boost to an army.
Elves so high!? That's just another elgis scheme!
Recruiting longbeards and drakes, helstorms, and pegasus knights as Kislev was honestly my highlight of RoC
Helstorms and other good artillery units are usually cheap in Allegiance points for the impact they can have, especially early game if you can grab some Mortars with about 7 cost from Empire or VCoast.
That really sucks about the break in, also coming from a Manscape owner they are great products. I am a hairy beast of a man and what used to take me 3 hours with my last razor to defur it takes about 20 minutes with my Manscape 4.0. Also they provide this wildly crazy suggestion of putting newspaper down below where you shave to make it easier to clean. Thats a S Tier life hack if Ive seen it
As Chaos Dwarves, I've found Kholek to be an awesome ally. He has a massive powerful army and he just wants to kill things, so you invite him to attack your enemies... and he does, with prejudice.
On mine he is on the verge of becoming a vassal of Archaon 😂 didn't even bother to be allied with him
Hey Legend love your content, been a fan for a while- but I think you missed something crucial about the Tomb Kings that would potentially put them higher on the list. If you ally recruit units from them you don't pay upkeep. As their units have no upkeep you don't pay for upkeep as well. Hope you're doing well. Also lemme know if I'm wrong or you disagree. Love learning from you & I could just be overvaluing this. I just wanted to bring it up as you didn't mention it.
Be very careful about future break ins. They may have cased you and will be back later. Dead bolts and window alarms.
My first Ikit Claw playthrough I made a non aggression pact with the beastmen on turn 3 for 14k. Using this 14k I gave them back multiple gifts of gold which allowed me to form a military alliance with them on turn 4. Great times
One note on skaven as an ally: Nurgle syncs very well with skaven as allies because access to some of their artillery and ranged units can be an awesome addition to their forces. Warp lightning cannons, for example, give nurgle valuable anto large at range.
The negatives of skaven as allies are mitigated by the fact that most factions aren't going to like you anyways because you're demons. You might be drawn into a lot of wars, but typically those are wars you'll be dragged into anyways eventually. I guess not having skaven allies might allow you to keep the peace for a bit longer, but if you're worried about armies coming from a direction you don't have force's consolidated then you always have kugaths plague cultists and instant recruitment
Never ally with Skaven.
Even if you're playing Skaven.
Most accurate assessment of the year.
Always ally with Skaven as Khorne. Queek is the best.
He typically won't betray you, as you are too powerful. Even if he does.... You don't really care. You are at war with everyone anyway, and it's just more rat skulls for the throne.
I always come back to your videos after every so months, play it in the background and I love the info, thank you for making videos man. probably been following you since warhammer 2 days. wanted to say thanks
Thanks for doing this, That's actually extremely useful info for alliances. I did vassalize skaven once while playing as nurgle to get gunners and artillery. Was somewhat useful.
Also sorry to hear of the break in, though that's some recommendation that the product is as good as jewelry.
The most bizarre thing in my legendary Skarbrand campaign is that I am best buddies with Kairos Fateweaver. Lol.
15:00
This actually surprised me. I often ally with Queek Headtaker if he is on any of my borders because he seems to go in the opposite direction of whichever side I am on. When I play Wurzag, I always ally with him, support him in a few fights with the dwarves, and let him rampage north while I go south.
Khalidas defeat traits boosts Vampire diplomacy
Groms for high elves
Daniel for kislev
And Arkhan for Tk
Nothing unites more than common hatred :)
if you like playing vamp counts then be sure to vassalize drycha, the corrupted temple means her own armies are immune to corruption attrition, way watchers are great with blood dragons and in campaigns she serves as a good buffer for the northern front allowing you to nuke down altdorf
Did that as Vlad and Ungrim shifted from loving me (alliance, +300 relations) to hating me beyond your comprehension (-1200 relations) because he hates Drycha so much.
But... he never declared war.
thanks for another tier list, love watching these
when Legend drops tierlist longbeards stop grumbling for 10 seconds
What do you mean allying with skaven is a bad idea, fellow filthy man-thing? They are a very trustworthy-treacherous allies, and you should give them all your warpstone, yes-yes.
Playing as wood elves, sometimes I love the beastmen I'm at war with. If all the stars align correctly: no corruption in forest and Heathlands are afflicted which means permanent ruin - which itself means the forest grows! Sisters of Twilight and Taurox usually happens just this perfect harmony.
Did a Legendary Grom campaing recently, and after killing all the brettonians and WElfs had a good enough relation with Ikit Claw to start an alliance. It was the best decision ever, having access to Plague Catapults in the early game really helps a lot of the gobbos crapstacks I've had as a GreenSkin, and since everybody hates you anyways Ikit couldn't drag me into wars that I wasn't already in.
I allied with Skaven as Tzeench just so I can send them on suicide missions to delay the enemy for a turn or two.
very Tzeentch thing to do
@@depalodor I mean I saved their faction from lizardmen, the least they can do is go and die a bit for me :)
Hope you're able to get your stuff back. Sorry to hear about that man. Much love to you and Mrs. Legend.
LOL i make it a goal of every campaign possible to have 2 ratling gunners in every single stack regardless of what race/faction I'm playing as. Skaven make great allies for Norsca. They come colonize the ruins that Norsca has to leave all over the map, and provide a valuable service in ratlings and plagueclaws.
The Elves being rated as Great Allies.... Thats going in the Book
i love the tier lists so much
Best wishes to you Legend
Heck yeah! A new and updated tier list video ❤❤❤
Tomb king elite units are restricted but you get 4 free skele spears in every army
Restricted but free units still pretty good, in my Thorek run Khalida and Settra was my great traditionalist ally.
A Necrosphinx for team up with the Thorek's Carnosaur was very fun.
@@simonteyssedre3261 when playing volkmar i just get 4 skele spearmen on every lord, including little trash lords who only exist to level up
They mostly replace my empire spearmen since i go pretty range heavy with extra lords
Cheers Legend
So basically, most of the evil factions are trash tier allies, even if you're playing evil factions. Sounds about right.
It's funny to hear Legend praise the high elves as the best, most reliable allies, after all the Tyrion millitary ally PTSD from WH2.
Those bastards. I’m sorry to hear that. Thank you for still making great content during hard times!
got back from work, looking forward to a campaign review while i prepare dinner as is tradition at this point, get greeted to this instead. thank you
i don´t know if this still works Butt, as tzench you can give tier 5 settlements to the beastmen and recruit free units from them to make a easy replaceble frontline
except tyrion is a trouble maker. i tried to ally every highelve faction as also a highelve faction just to get pulled into a civil war
i think you could totally make new tierlist of old existing ones if you want after the new patch because so much changed
9:46 while this is true in practical terms, I'm a sucker for saying "I own Trees" and having single-settlement provinces (easy to manage) that I can generally turn into "outposts" for regions that I don't have much presence in yet, and have as recruitment hubs so that those building slot aren't taken up in my important provinces, and can then dedicate the latter for other things.
Part of this is also super-personal bias, as while I haven't played any Wood Elf campaigns yet, I'm DYING to get on one and experience what I imagine is a vastly different playstyle from anything I've managed thus far
i´m sorry for you legend, but at least manscape saved the rest of your ownings
The only thing I can think of is remembering which faction is listed as the endgame crisis if you have it on. It can be rather unfortunate to suddenly get backstabbed by a bunch of stacks of something from a faction you thought liked you.
Rarely gt far enough into a campaign to need the4 artillery from Empire. Did get some Cathay guns once. That was cool.
In regards to units zoats and rev crystal bastillodons can bring healing to any faction.
Also while i have not tested this myself i belive corpse carts and mortis engines could be great for coast or tomb kings to have acces to.
Skaven probably should be in its own tier, "Annex only"
Even the skaven agree that the skaven should be wiped out.
@@loowick4074 Yes-yes
I've played as Ogres in an unmodded IE co-op game. My friends were able to recruit crushers from me. I think having a camp in that province/region/catchment area allows them more recruitment than just from the normal settlement structures.
having alliance with Morathi or Malekith is actually pretty good when you play sisters of twilight
they protect your borders and they help you invading the donut
I think Tomb Kings having almost no money also works in your favor for securing treaties, because they'll accept small amounts of gold instead of huge fortunes.
I don't know how much it helps, but I like allying with Cathayan factions early on to beef up the Gate garrisons with my outposts.
Most Beastmen units have caps but are totally free of gold upkeep and even seem to be relatively cheap in allegiance cost.
Being able to recruit dirt cheap Bretonnian peasant mobs into my Empire armies early on was amazing, but sometimes it's hard to get Louen to concede to that early alliance.
In general I agree with your take on HE, but in my recent Tyrion campaign, Alarielle had +47 relations with Ellyrion and they had at trade and at least one more agreement and Alarielle declared war on them regardless, breaking the treaties in the process. Might be a scripted event, I noticed her declaring war on Ellyrion every single campaign when I'm nearby.
yes that happened to me too. I think alarielle is scripted to attack them. don't sign any alliances with Ellyrion
I was playing Arkhan the Black and allied with Mannfred and was like “sweet, I get to add some more vampire counts units to my armies” and was highly disappointed that I had to pay the unit upkeep, which is a huge problem for tomb kings since their entire economy is based around not paying upkeep.
@legendoftotalwar hey man would be interesting if you could make a tier list for items, banners and followers. Maybe one video for unique items for LL’s and another video for items and banners that every faction can get as drops. Take care ❤️
Legend: “Never ally with Skaven, even when *you’re* Skaven”
Gotta appreciate CA going the extra mile to be lore accurate lol
Allying with vampire cost is really a double edged sword I think.
On one hand you can have some artillery and ranged units for factions that lacks the option (like as when playing vampire counts), but they tend to be ennemies with every faction around them and they tend to get you involved in their wars before being nuked.
I'm currently trying to do a Nagash-themed campaign with Arkhan the black, and now I have bretonians and lizardmen beelining to my western coast.
I have found that balefire carts from VC can be really cheeky with the right dwarf armies, not only does the AoE magic damage area make them more effective against daemons but dwarves are one of the few factions that can really cheese fire vunerbility, they can achieve 60% fire vunerbility on enemies thanks to ironbeard ring, ironbeard giving flamable to thanes and you can squeeze out the final 20% using the fire wizard gotten via the battle for Ubersriek or via theft from other factions
Cathay artillery is fantastic as Imrik since it's flaming damage and he reduces enemy fire resistance and makes it weakness. A battery of grand cannons can absolutely pummel single entities in a single volley with this. And they're better than bolt throwers.
Love these Tier List vids
Did somebody else noticed that adding norsca unit to slanesh armies and bretonnia or dragons to kislev works really well ?
Very interesting tier list, Legend. Which makes me think... could you imagine a tier-list (or not a tier-list form) but some sort of "good matchup vs. bad matchup" faction to play as coop IE games? I often play TW:W3 IE game with one or another friend and it's always interesting to imagine which duo of factions to play is a cool matchup (but not one that have terrible diplomacy synergy).
For instance, i'm currently playing Slaanesh, while buddy is playing Skaven.... And while it's cool to play, we found out it's a REALLY terribly bad matchup alliance, diplomatically speaking, for nearly all the AI faction. (nearly everyone hate my friend for being skaven, + many for being allied with slaanesh (=me). And most my potential vassals hate me (=slaanesh) because i'm ally with a skaven).
Could you imagine a quick video about which faction can coop. with which faction easily without screwing-up the campaign diplomacy game of both side ?
That would be great.
My brother and I basically only do immortal empires co-op, big fans of vampire counts and wood elf and skaven and wood elf.
Wood elves don't really care much about the diplomacy of other races, and you get the confederation quests for the other WE factions, and their roster is pretty decent for other races.
Vampire counts bring bodies to clog up the frontlines and are easy cannon fodder that you dont have to worry about friendly fire, since it's all cheap units, and you can help turbo your wood elf ally as Helman ghorst by abandoning your capital at haunted forest at the end of turn 9, wood elf teleports over with a single lord and settles the tree, which gives them a tree to start getting upgraded for the forest health and landmark, you don't really need that tree anyway, and they now have a forward base to start shipping armies out of in your territory.
Skaven and wood elves is fun because they are close to skavenblight if you aren't playing clan skryer, and if you are, then you can meet up and slap Carcassonne, plus your rosters fit different niches, wood elf infantry holds the line better than skaven does, and skaven artillery is quite helpful for the wood elves, and the weapons teams all fit into the WE armies neatly.
That's just my experience with my co-op campaigns with my brother, there's definitely other factions that do well too, lizardmen with the revivification crystal bastilidon being able to give revivals to factions that don't have healing, or have high health, low entity count units is quite a blessing.
Hope any of this helps, and enjoy the co-op!
You can pair tomb kings woth just about anyone for no hassle.
Upkeep free units, for your friend to pull from outposts. Though no-minimal income of their own, makes using outpost troops hard to afford.
Beastmen+anything chaos/skaven/ogres.
Others chaos factions are neutral to you being allied to a beastman, so it doesn't hurt. Again sharing upkeep free troops, really helps others in the early game.
That video made me think that a campaign solely focused on borrowing armies from allies would be quite fun. Ruleset i quickly thought up:
You are resticted to one player army per two full provinces under your control.
You focus on building an alliance as fast as possible and focus on allliance quests to generate points.
Borrow armies from your ally asap and as often as you can to expand your territories.
Would really like to see which race to pick and how far and fast people can get with a playstyle focused on making alliances. Would you be able for example put the whole world under your alliance and how fast could you do that?
in my experience Warriors Chaos can pretty quickly end up with a decent number of options for army borrowing (mostly due to Norscan vassals) so for them it'll likely be quite easy (though it's a big shame (and a bit dumb) that the buffs the Champions give to vassal armies don't apply to armies borrowed from your vassals)
Playing as Skaven, Mal and/or his Mum are some of the best allies you will get. They only have -10 aversion, they usually do well and their trade deals can be huge income. Can confirm that playing as Beastmen Skaven are some of the best allies you will get. You will fight the same people and they will love you for it, they have not betrayed me once and you don't care about Skaven filth. You can trade with them (which is bizarre) but will only make tariff trickle income.
Vilitch is the best Ally, he randomly decides to give you three spawn too help you out in a pinch.
Don't tell the folks at r/totalwar they still think it's a bug.
I get these three spawn after a battle against a kairos army in my Thorek run, it's definitly a bug; but a funny one.
I just did a lizardman campaign and being able to recruit wood elf archers made the alliance worth it on its own.
i started watching this channel after years and he doesnt even say "see you next time, fuckers." anymore man it hurts.
Honey, come quick, legend got another manscaped contract, its time for another tier list
I cant believe after all this time I get to watch another legends tier list
Legend just referred to the dwarves as stubborn. INTO THE BOOK IT GOES!
TIER LISTS ARE BACK
Sucks that they sacked your settlement.
One thing to note is that Kislev usually gets overwhelmed and easily breaks alliance due to this
But Legend! - If you ally yourself with the Cathay, then you can't plunder their caravans for tons of cash!
Also, there is a thing to be said while playing Khorne. - As Scarbrand get an alliance with Clan Mors, put 4 Plagueclaw Catapults in each one of your armies, then surround them with Warriors of Khorne (mainly shield variant), and suddenly you're better at this playstyle than the Dwarves.
And if your Scaven besty declares on anyone, or anyone declares on you because of your besty; that's just an extra fun to be had.
Alright, so about that sponsorship...
- Random guy breaks into your house
- Takes the sponsorship package
- Takes your birthday gift
- Doesn't touch the TV and the console
- Leaves the gaming PC alone
- Refuses to ellaborate
- Leaves
Australia may have the highest concentration of lethal wildlife in the planet, but the burglars are either misunderstood geniuses or absolute morons. Well that certainly sucks.
my favourite ally as belakor is quickly going to the south and vassalising kairos
he has since given me 12 settlements from random places usually near my border
I kept trading settlements with the wood elves and they just kept moving with me arross the map when i played belagar . it was the best campaign have ever had
I found vampire coast to be very good allies for slaneesh because both armies complement each other so well. Adding 2 mortars to slaneesh changes things tremendously!
Would love to see a lores of magic tier list updated for warhammer 3, maybe after the chaos dwarfs are out?
he already did
You take that slander against the Skaven back! I had Ikit Claw stick by me as an ally in the face of a Vermintide Endgame Crisis! He's not a bad rat!
For Tomb Kings, Vampires are good allies for the Mortis engine and other engines, but otherwise a bit bad.
Do you think its worth mentioning with the wood elves, that Drycha is (IMO) a bad ally for similar reasons as greenskins. Otherwise love your content mate! keep up the great work! I watch them all!
Another reason why Norsca makes great vassals for Warriors of Chaos is that the outpost building increases the amount of vassal income you get from them.
Also, as Warriors of Chaos you can use alliances with Slaanesh factions to your advantage to create provinces with high Slaanesh corruption, which doesn't hurt WoC in order to more easily recruit Slaanesh marked units. Also, being seduced by Slaanesh as a WoC faction gives you Slaanesh army abilities, but at least in my last Archaon playthrough it seems they are bugged as you cannot charge them up to activate them, and when you hover over the bar to see what you need to do to charge them up it just gives a generic description of basically "do something to increase the charge on this bar."
The Slaneesh army abilities for the faction leader come from Sigvald, it's in his skill tree
Me, playing a Ku'Gath campaign with Tretch, Queek, Skarbrand, Kairos, Kholek and Vilitch as allies:
But seriously, I just like rat/nurgle combo for vermintide flair, and I haven't played much demos so I figured to ally with rest of the demon cast so I could test out some higher units. Turns out exalted flamer is a real burninator, killed bunch of dryads AND my plaguebearers with one volley. Also allying with tzeench as nurgle was so blursed, even if it cucked my long victory it was worth it.
My friends and I always love allying with me when I play Beastmen. Nothing beats free
I would put tomb kings in great allies because their units you can get are free! 4 free units for every army.
6:10 “ I would not ally with green skins even if I was playing green skins” That sounds pretty lore accurate. Atleast in 40k, they fight each other just as much as they fight the other races in the Galaxy and I assume that’s the case in Fantasy.
Races with good artillery make for good allies, especially if you're a faction with bad artillery. Playing as high elves, bretonnian trebuchets made things a whole lot more pleasant for most of my run. With artillery the 4-per-army restriction isn't even really a restriction.