The only thing wrong with the pitch early on is the "...to save it" part. Roland's goal is to get to the top. Period. The only reason to save the tower is so he can get to the top; saving everything is an aftereffect and not the goal.
You can NOT skip The Gunslinger! It establishes Rolands all encompassing focus on the man in black and the Dark Tower. Roland is never again this single minded in the whole series. I would have preferred this Roland to the one he becomes for the entire series. It is a necessary drive to match the seriousness of the task (saving EVERYTHING)
Agreed. I don't think the series would be ruined if someone started at Drawing of the Three and then went back eventually. But I feel like it's less rewarding
To me it's important to read TG first. It establishes the feel and mood of the overall series for me. I walked into TFotT with that feeling of exhausted obessesson along with Roland and his actions and drive made perfect sense. Starting with the Did-a-chum boys eating his fingers and him almost dying on a random beach and his drive to keep going would have confused the life out of me.
I’m just finding this 09.27.24 as I’m starting my 3rd journey to the Tower. I can’t tell you how much I appreciate a spoiler full review that actually dives into the details. You can’t discuss this properly without spoilers. You guys did an amazing job addressing the meta story framing, King’s self deprecating inclusion as a character and connections to his battles with his own addictions (drugs and alcohol, but I’m sure he felt like he ignored people he loved while writing - the Tower takes many forms). But my favorite point you brought up was the sysiphean (I also think promethean) nature of the self induced torture that Roland goes through as he relives the loop again and again is the crux of the saga. You nailed it. It’s heart breaking. Thankee Sais. More people need to see this. This video is criminally underviewed. P.S. - while writing this I ignored my wife and didn’t give an answer that would’ve taken 2 seconds of my concentration and she got pissed off about. I’m in love with this saga because I see myself in Roland and still can’t help falling into the same mistakes. Life is funny like that. Just get better each time you replay the loop and let the journey and the improvement be your joy - not the Tower. Beware the Tower, the Green Light Across the Water. It calls to all of us with its false reward and intoxicating purpose.
Oh my gosh - the minute the video first came up I was like "Those guys look SO much alike." Then you said you're brothers. 🙂 Very cool, guys - great to see you sharing something as wonderful as the Tower. Long days and pleasant nights!
there's no point missing or skimming book one. its such a short book. I'm confused by this suggestion. the Gunslinger IS mandatory and sets a distinctive mood. As the style of the series changes as you progress through the novels it lends a deeper appreciation for TDT as a whole experience . Having said that if you skip and go back to the Gunslinger afterwards that would be fine, I guess but its a quick read as aforementioned and it set the stage for what was to come.
Exactly if not for anything else it's the mood it sets. It grim almost hopeless you feel like you're reading a sociopath that doesn't even understand what he's doing outside of the actuality of it. Without that first book you won't really see the change in Roland. He's just an ever moving unrelenting force but through people his humanity comes back in subtle waves. To me when you get to the end you see that clearly that as much as he's become different from who he was in the first book by the end of the series he reverts back because he never shed the force that drove him too it his ultimate flaw. In short to ME skipping the first is imppossible if you care about character growth or journey.
Great summary guys! I'm about to do my second read and you've given me a lot to keep in mind. For the series, here are my picks for the cast (since my dream cast is too old now) ROLAND: Timothy Olyphant, Nikolaj Waldauor (Jamie Lannister), or Christian Bale (Clint Eastwood if he was younger) JAKE: a complete newcomer (unfortunately, Gaten Matarazzo is too old now) SUSANNAH (Odetta/Detta)/: Lupita Nyong'o, Rutina Wesley, Sonequa Martin-Green, or Jodie Turner-Smith (Angel Bassett HANDS DOWN if she were younger) EDDIE: Jonathan Rhys Meyers, Aaron Paul, or Paul Dano MAN IN BLACK: Benedict Cumberbatch
I absolutely loved that point made that Roland is an archetype for all our favourite characters in books. Roland is Gandalf, falling into the deeps of the world with Durins Bane for the 20th time, it is Paul riding the sandworm for the 10th. That we, in an abstract way make these characters live in loops. I love that.
I was just now thinking about this in a way the tower is the number of pages in the saga in fact of any saga and the beams could then be the binding of said book. If you break the binding before partaking of the tome you ease its wisdom into our harsh reality. The breaking of the beams gave weight to the actions of the characters, a sense of stakes that all good stories have, without said stakes death as well as life has no meaning or consequence.
I’ve been thinking about trying this again but I’m not sure that Stephen King is for me. A lot of his books sound like they would be interesting but, the ones I have tried reading, haven’t been very interesting. The only King book I have finished is The Shining. His books just don’t seem to draw me in. I don’t think it’s the plot. I’m thinking it’s his writing style.
I would say the Crimson King was more like Morgoth I think Randall Flag was like Sauron. If I was a little disappointed in anything at all in the Dark Tower it was how it "reduced" Randall Flagg to a relatively bush league villain. After reading The Stand, I had him pegged as "not Satan/the devil", but a VERY senior subordinate. But the Dark Tower cut him down quite a bit in my opinion.
@@Kipoo-cv3dd Um, it's not like the whole video isn't full of spoilers. Also it's not like TH-cam offers Reddit style spoiler hiding capability - I'd say that my lead-in ("If anything disappointed me, it was...") was plenty of warning to someone to STOP READING if they didn't want to see it.
@23:12 This is like the third video that I have watched that throws shade at The Gunslinger. And I don't get it. I was hooked from the first sentence. Its the only one if the series that I have read 3 times. It's not "slow". Its the shortest in the series. You guys are quite a bit younger than me. Maybe this this a mellinial thing. We're being told that attention spans are shrinking and maybe that's why younger folks find the Gunslinger slow. I feel like people will look at videos like this end up skipping the Gunslinger and there is absolutely no reason to skip it. Its excellent.
I think you're reading too much into this comment. We both love The Gunslinger. Hell, I was 13 years old when I first read it. It was my first King book, and it made me fall in love with his work. But it's a known fact that a lot of other people struggle with the book, hence my brother suggesting *some* start with book 2. I don't agree with this, but I get the impulse. Also, a book's length doesn't always equate to the pace of the story. It is slower paced. But I love it nonetheless.
@@WhyItsGreatRecently I heard The Gunslinger described as a "mood piece". This is the best way to describe it in my opinion. It's an establishing story that sets out the feel of the world. Edit to add - One of the most iconic opening lines ever too
Song of Susanna was a slog for me. Really after book 2 it was a lot of peaks like Blaine, and the wolves of calla battle and lows like when he writes himself into the story and the ending. I
"The world had moved on", I have always seen the decrepit state of Mid-World, where most of what once was is failing or obsolete, as the indication that this world had been forsaken by the population. They have come to terms or believe that their world has past some sort of threshold, becoming beyond repair and/or saving. The world had moved on to a state of not working anymore, climate, disease, a broken atmosphere, mistreated lands and so on. A sort of nihilism and detatchment was held by everyone. A worldwide understanding that the human's reign is over, they just have to let time do its thing and let the planet do what it's doing, not moving on per se, but dying.
I just started the Dark Tower books and I'm so excited. I felt lost at first, but after a few chapters, I'm feeling connected to the characters and story. It pulls you in so deeply, I often feel untethered to the real world. Only Stephen King novels can do that for me.
Cowboys, vampires, mutants, robots, technology, magic, multiple realities, portals and a version of Stephen King himself.
And sex demons. You can't forget the sex demons!!
The only thing wrong with the pitch early on is the "...to save it" part. Roland's goal is to get to the top. Period. The only reason to save the tower is so he can get to the top; saving everything is an aftereffect and not the goal.
You can NOT skip The Gunslinger! It establishes Rolands all encompassing focus on the man in black and the Dark Tower. Roland is never again this single minded in the whole series. I would have preferred this Roland to the one he becomes for the entire series. It is a necessary drive to match the seriousness of the task (saving EVERYTHING)
Agreed. I don't think the series would be ruined if someone started at Drawing of the Three and then went back eventually. But I feel like it's less rewarding
To me it's important to read TG first. It establishes the feel and mood of the overall series for me. I walked into TFotT with that feeling of exhausted obessesson along with Roland and his actions and drive made perfect sense. Starting with the Did-a-chum boys eating his fingers and him almost dying on a random beach and his drive to keep going would have confused the life out of me.
TOTALLY agree that you should start with The Gunslinger. I'm with you - I just don't believe in "rearranging" an author's work.
Oy is my favorite character
I’m just finding this 09.27.24 as I’m starting my 3rd journey to the Tower. I can’t tell you how much I appreciate a spoiler full review that actually dives into the details. You can’t discuss this properly without spoilers. You guys did an amazing job addressing the meta story framing, King’s self deprecating inclusion as a character and connections to his battles with his own addictions (drugs and alcohol, but I’m sure he felt like he ignored people he loved while writing - the Tower takes many forms).
But my favorite point you brought up was the sysiphean (I also think promethean) nature of the self induced torture that Roland goes through as he relives the loop again and again is the crux of the saga. You nailed it. It’s heart breaking.
Thankee Sais. More people need to see this. This video is criminally underviewed.
P.S. - while writing this I ignored my wife and didn’t give an answer that would’ve taken 2 seconds of my concentration and she got pissed off about. I’m in love with this saga because I see myself in Roland and still can’t help falling into the same mistakes. Life is funny like that. Just get better each time you replay the loop and let the journey and the improvement be your joy - not the Tower. Beware the Tower, the Green Light Across the Water. It calls to all of us with its false reward and intoxicating purpose.
Oh my gosh - the minute the video first came up I was like "Those guys look SO much alike." Then you said you're brothers. 🙂 Very cool, guys - great to see you sharing something as wonderful as the Tower. Long days and pleasant nights!
there's no point missing or skimming book one. its such a short book. I'm confused by this suggestion. the Gunslinger IS mandatory and sets a distinctive mood. As the style of the series changes as you progress through the novels it lends a deeper appreciation for TDT as a whole experience . Having said that if you skip and go back to the Gunslinger afterwards that would be fine, I guess but its a quick read as aforementioned and it set the stage for what was to come.
Exactly if not for anything else it's the mood it sets. It grim almost hopeless you feel like you're reading a sociopath that doesn't even understand what he's doing outside of the actuality of it. Without that first book you won't really see the change in Roland. He's just an ever moving unrelenting force but through people his humanity comes back in subtle waves. To me when you get to the end you see that clearly that as much as he's become different from who he was in the first book by the end of the series he reverts back because he never shed the force that drove him too it his ultimate flaw. In short to ME skipping the first is imppossible if you care about character growth or journey.
Great summary guys! I'm about to do my second read and you've given me a lot to keep in mind. For the series, here are my picks for the cast (since my dream cast is too old now)
ROLAND: Timothy Olyphant, Nikolaj Waldauor (Jamie Lannister), or Christian Bale (Clint Eastwood if he was younger)
JAKE: a complete newcomer (unfortunately, Gaten Matarazzo is too old now)
SUSANNAH (Odetta/Detta)/: Lupita Nyong'o, Rutina Wesley, Sonequa Martin-Green, or Jodie Turner-Smith (Angel Bassett HANDS DOWN if she were younger)
EDDIE: Jonathan Rhys Meyers, Aaron Paul, or Paul Dano
MAN IN BLACK: Benedict Cumberbatch
Very nice! And I just finished the 2nd read
I absolutely loved that point made that Roland is an archetype for all our favourite characters in books. Roland is Gandalf, falling into the deeps of the world with Durins Bane for the 20th time, it is Paul riding the sandworm for the 10th. That we, in an abstract way make these characters live in loops. I love that.
I really loved the graphic novel series. Huge fan.
I spent a summer reading a whole slew of King books too some years back. Lot of good stuff there.
I was just now thinking about this in a way the tower is the number of pages in the saga in fact of any saga and the beams could then be the binding of said book. If you break the binding before partaking of the tome you ease its wisdom into our harsh reality. The breaking of the beams gave weight to the actions of the characters, a sense of stakes that all good stories have, without said stakes death as well as life has no meaning or consequence.
Long days and pleasant nights.
And may you have many more, thankie sai
I’ve been thinking about trying this again but I’m not sure that Stephen King is for me. A lot of his books sound like they would be interesting but, the ones I have tried reading, haven’t been very interesting. The only King book I have finished is The Shining. His books just don’t seem to draw me in. I don’t think it’s the plot. I’m thinking it’s his writing style.
This kicked me off to reread the books as I have done before. No spoilers and maybe a bit meta but this is journey number 3 😉
Supposedly we read for enjoyment. That said, the more time a book can fill, the bigger. It's not a race to the finish line.
A like and a comment for the Algorithm. It protects.
I would say the Crimson King was more like Morgoth I think Randall Flag was like Sauron.
If I was a little disappointed in anything at all in the Dark Tower it was how it "reduced" Randall Flagg to a relatively bush league villain. After reading The Stand, I had him pegged as "not Satan/the devil", but a VERY senior subordinate. But the Dark Tower cut him down quite a bit in my opinion.
that's a Spoiler, Dude
@@Kipoo-cv3dd Um, it's not like the whole video isn't full of spoilers. Also it's not like TH-cam offers Reddit style spoiler hiding capability - I'd say that my lead-in ("If anything disappointed me, it was...") was plenty of warning to someone to STOP READING if they didn't want to see it.
@@KipIngram Um, o.k!! 🧡
@23:12
This is like the third video that I have watched that throws shade at The Gunslinger. And I don't get it.
I was hooked from the first sentence. Its the only one if the series that I have read 3 times. It's not "slow". Its the shortest in the series. You guys are quite a bit younger than me. Maybe this this a mellinial thing. We're being told that attention spans are shrinking and maybe that's why younger folks find the Gunslinger slow. I feel like people will look at videos like this end up skipping the Gunslinger and there is absolutely no reason to skip it. Its excellent.
I think you're reading too much into this comment. We both love The Gunslinger. Hell, I was 13 years old when I first read it. It was my first King book, and it made me fall in love with his work.
But it's a known fact that a lot of other people struggle with the book, hence my brother suggesting *some* start with book 2. I don't agree with this, but I get the impulse.
Also, a book's length doesn't always equate to the pace of the story. It is slower paced. But I love it nonetheless.
@@WhyItsGreatRecently I heard The Gunslinger described as a "mood piece". This is the best way to describe it in my opinion. It's an establishing story that sets out the feel of the world.
Edit to add - One of the most iconic opening lines ever too
Song of Susanna was a slog for me. Really after book 2 it was a lot of peaks like Blaine, and the wolves of calla battle and lows like when he writes himself into the story and the ending. I
"The world had moved on", I have always seen the decrepit state of Mid-World, where most of what once was is failing or obsolete, as the indication that this world had been forsaken by the population. They have come to terms or believe that their world has past some sort of threshold, becoming beyond repair and/or saving. The world had moved on to a state of not working anymore, climate, disease, a broken atmosphere, mistreated lands and so on. A sort of nihilism and detatchment was held by everyone. A worldwide understanding that the human's reign is over, they just have to let time do its thing and let the planet do what it's doing, not moving on per se, but dying.
I just started the Dark Tower books and I'm so excited. I felt lost at first, but after a few chapters, I'm feeling connected to the characters and story. It pulls you in so deeply, I often feel untethered to the real world. Only Stephen King novels can do that for me.
25 or 6 2 4 lol