13:11 food for thought: notice that it’s a “he” who wants to open a wrinkled mouth, meanwhile the children in the cave seem to be females, and all the rest of the characters who have been speculated to be children of the forest (Nettles, Old Nan, the ghost of High Heart, and so on) are females too, meanwhile the only female other we seem to know of is the night’s queen, all the rest of the White Walkers seem to be males, and they only take in male babies.
Bro you are totally killing it with these Ice & Fire videos! Your theories are so logical and based on multiple, very solid, supporting facts. I’m a book fan, not a show fan, so your use of book sources is very refreshing. I’m loving it! Don’t stop! ❤️
I would imagine the way that the weirwoods are "shaken" is through some magic frequency that makes them vibrate, just like we can make water or other substances vibrate through certain frequencies in real life. This would explain why the horn that Sam has (given that it is actually the horn of winter) makes no sound, we just can't hear it through human ears. Then, (around 9:30 in the video) if it's Leaf that made the weirwood shake to save Bran, it means the COTF can hear and sing that magic frequency, which i think is really cool
Agreed, I think in fact if you want a science explanation the horn is tuned to the resonance frequency of the wall. It is likely a thing that I will make a video on some day. Sort of like the Tacoma Narrows bridge shook itself apart with frequency or how mythbusters had their break step bridge episode. Lots of very interesting effects with frequencies and resonance that work basically like magic. So IMO a perfect real life thing to work into a magic system.
Really ingenious theory. We might never know if it’s true because even if GRRM finishes the books, he might choose to leave some mysteries unresolved. But it should be true, because it adds so much texture to the universe. thank you for giving us plenty to think about!
7:30 What if the reason why dragons can't go over the wall is because of that spell? That could confirm either that dragonriders and dragons' minds are connected or other more complex theory regarding the creation of dragons and their tie to valyrians
This is coming in a video soon.(probably this week) I think this is exactly why, I have speculated in previous videos that the idea of the 3 heads of the dragon is because the dragons are a mind-meld consciousness bond type thing by their very existence. Then in addition to that form a bond with the rider for a 3 headed mind bond. And passing the wall rips those bonds apart so a dragon passing over the wall would be mentally ripped apart. Seems like a good reason to say no to the command to fly over the wall to me.
I just thought of a very GRRMy sort of "Pun" that might tie into your Wall Theory, nicely. A "pale" is an old name for a "Wall" around a village/fort made of vertical logs(trees), semi-buried and often sharpened at the top. To "go beyond the pale" means to go "beyond the Wall"/act dangerously, as it were. GRRM has now made a snow White(pale) Pale/Wall to keep out snow White(pale) Wight Walkers who are forever trying to go "beyond the pale(The Wall)"/act dangerously. etc.....He does love his wordplay, doesn't he? Cheers!
His word play game is up there with the absolute best of the best. Didn't realize that is where "beyond the pale" comes from. Certainly seems like a thing GRRM would know and maybe have in mind
@@michaeltalksaboutstuff You can still see the word "pale" in words like "palisade", which means basically the same thing. All old, Roman and frontier "forts" would use these sorts of vertical log walls, as well. The "mare"(English), "mère" & "mer"(French) puns are great too "mare" = female horse; "mère" = mother(French); "mer" = Sea(French). "Pale Mare" = White/"Silver" horse is also the Horse of Death in Revelations from the Bible(i.e. the "pale rider" of folklore). Dany is also herself a "pale mère"(pale/white mother) due to her Valyrian features and role as Khaleesi. In summary, Dany is a pale mère, riding her pale mare, across the pale mer whilst bringing the Pale Mare. ....like I said, he loves his wordplay ;) Swing by the LML stream later!
10:04 that tree shaking the snow off its branches is one of those moments that had me like wait…what just happened?? On purpose!? And this explanation makes so much sense and has me literally jaw-dropped. I think my dog is concerned. Great video!
right, I remember being like WTF but quickly forgetting about it in all the rest of everything. Now I realize that was the intent. It is meant to feel like a cheap way to save Bran and then in hindsight it isn't cheap at all, it is doing set up for later.
Part of what makes this series so re-readable! There’s always an extra tidbit you glossed over on your first read that totally floors you on your 2nd/3rd/etc
Got one more for you. The Brandon chap in WOW literally ends with Bran seeing a ton of different versions of himself impaled on the spikes in the sinkhole. It blew my mind listening to that.
* minor tweak to something here. I believe pretty much everything Michael has said in his videos so far is absolutely spot on (I'm working my way through them) I don't believe the trees in The Wall will "shake the ice free" Blowing on the horn will summon a moon meteor that will crash into The Wall, freeing the trees. There is SO MUCH meteor symbology, it's definitely where George is going with this. Love these videos, keep up all the good work!
So I will give a bit of a spoiler since you are already on board I am sure I am not giving away too much. One video topic on my to do list coming soon is under the working title "The Tree and The Moon". To the direct point you bring up I would say my current thought is this. Wall can fall with trees shaking the ice free. Long night likely falls when the trees die and upon their dying their last bit of magic, they call down a moon meteor and plunge the world into darkness. Either that or the only way to kill the world tree is by someone else calling a moon meteor that hits them. But in any case I do think a moon meteor does have a pretty solid chance of crashing down at some point. Plunging the world into darkness upon death might also be a last play by the weirwoods to guarantee their own rebirth. They may be the only tree able to grow without light. Making them the natural choice for a new world tree every time they plunge the world into darkness. Then having split their hive mind into shadows who can sweep over everything until the people plant a new healthy tree to put the consciousness into, they basically made enforcers who will be there when they die to ensure people want a new tree planted. Lots of speculation there, but I could see it playing out something like that if it is all a big weirwood control system/scheme. A few more thoughts to get together before the vid as there is more to the ancient lore about the moon I wanna talk about, but it is a topic I am really looking forward to. Still up in the air if the moon and trees are working together or they are opposite forces fighting for control haha but either way its a bit of a yin and yang thing going on and a bit of order and chaos and I think the dance of the tree and the moon is part of this cycle. You might know this one already but this is one of my favorite lines toward the idea the old trees might try pull down the moon meteor upon death. "It grew very quiet in the castle kitchen then. Bran could hear the soft crackle of the flames, the wind stirring the leaves in the night, the creak of the skinny weirwood reaching for the moon." Bran 4 ASOS
@@michaeltalksaboutstuff - I love this detailed explanation, I'm on board! :) This is definitely going to give me a lot to think about during my next re-read! :)
Great stuff. Michael you’re easily now in my top three Song of Ice and Fire analysts in terms of unraveling the deepest mysteries and symbolism in the books. The other two are: David Lightbringer, who I think has figured out most of the comet/Long Night symbolism, the Weirwood paste is greenseer brains, the Kingsguard as symbolic others, and some of his ideas on how the Weirwoods were corrupted, although I think he’s missing out on some of the secret identity plots, and the third is the best I’ve seen on those secret identity plots - the Order of the Green Hand, who I think have mostly unraveled the Mance/Arthur Dayne, Tormund (Gerald Hightower), qhorin Halfhand (Oswald Went) conspiracy, although I think their big swing on Jon Snow being Ned’s true born son with Ashara Dayne is likely wrong, with all of the clues they see leading to that conclusion, I think, are because Ned did a baby switch fooling the Kingsguard nights sent on their mission to the Wall giving them his true born daughter with Ashara Val, who they wrongly think is Rhaegar’s heir, while Ned kept Jon. Order of the Greenhand is also excellent on exposing Doran Martell as being some kind of death worshiping ally to the Others, possibly because water magic is naturally linked to Ice somehow and opposing fire, but this is where trying to decode who the factions are and what their motivations truly are is so difficult for this epic. I think you’re right on track with your theories about the Wall, guest rights, the frozen nature of the culture of the North compared to the radical nature of the culture of the Valyrians (but why do they also seem to be aligned somehow via the Targaryens who also seem to “Remember”?) and the methods of immortality via fire magic/glass candles, ice magic via the Others and the Weirwoods, which is maybe also a kind of Earth immortality, and then there’s the water magic immortality or resurrection in play with Patchface, and the Deep Ones and The ‘Squishers’. The key question that needs to be answered/decoded in these books is identifying who are the different factions and what do they really want? With the understanding that many of the characters are likely ignorant of the real reasons why they are pursuing different goals, motivated either by manipulation or misunderstanding various prophecies. That’s the mystery I think that needs to be untangled to bring enough clarity to the plot to really understand the story. Maybe you’ll be the guy to do it! Keep up the good work.
Thank you for the high place in your ranks! In general that main question is what I am working toward. The players on the biggest level as you say. Who are the puppet masters who actually are battling and over what. I think I have a good layout but there is more work and research to be done before it goes public.
@@michaeltalksaboutstuff hahaha! just seen the video and listened to another fabulous piece of work you gave away for free (...) i can't resist to write "i told you so". well done, lots of new stuff to think about! still processing the last one, though... i have no counter arguements but a few ides and questions ^^ it's late over here, which saves you for now. brilliant ideas and conclusions again!
GRRM does lots of wordplay on the words "pale" and "mare", "mere", "mare" and "Pale Mare" during Dany's Dothraki Sea scenes on her Silver (pale, white) horse, as well. Same idea of being "beyond the pale"/in the wilderness in a white/wight/dead environment.
Karl...April Mae here and hellos! What you're saying about word-play is spot on! For example-ALL the stories about knight's being in Westeros BEFORE the concept actually shows up there with the Andals. It keeps coming up, over and over and over. I THINK that it is probable that the Night's Watch plays into that-and it becomes Knight's Watch 1000's of years ago. Because of the wall's purpose, why it was built and the men who man it all, things that have happened there and around it or because of it...well, the words and concepts all blend together and morph into something else almost completely over time...BUT the original story/facts leave remnents in ancient stories. Hence there being Knight's before there are knights. That is just how I read it. Be well!
@@aprilmae274 Hola! GRRM is great at twisting and flipping words to convey multiple meanings and motifs. One of the most fun parts of reading the books. See you in the Streams!
I wonder if the Greensingers in Bloodravem's cave are similar but have one fundamental difference to the Undying beneath the Wall, they are there by choice. They chose to give up their place in the cycle of life and death, in order to protect their people from harm. Meanwhile, the Undying it seems were put there against their will. The Night's King and his Queen of Winter for example were forced into that bondage rather than willingly sacrificing themselves to it. Another difference could be that the Greensingers in the cave are the "true" form of Weirwood immortality, the Green magic that is inherent to the Children of the Forest rather than crossing that with the Dragonglass Candles that happens beneath the Wall. They are willingly giving their minds and magical energy into the trees, kept alive by them in order to function as living magical batteries. If the Wall was created via a perversion of Green magic by tainting it with Fire magic from Valyria, that would explain why the Greensingers are seated and comfortable rather than crucified and tortured eternally.
Really like this theory! I've always thought it'd make sense for fire to be involved in bringing down the Wall, possibly with Shireen's burning being done to stop the wall from falling but ends up helping it come down sooner by melting it. It'd make sense if there are actual trees beneath the ice, so then when the horn is blown to shake off the ice the trees would normally still remain behind to keep up the magical protection and form the base to rebuild the wall again. Except if there's simultanously a fire raging out of control, it could burn the trees and effectively destroy the magical barrier as well as the physical one, which would be much worse than what the horn of joramum originally intended. It'd be ironic for the Mel to light a fire to protect them but it only helps destroy their protection.
Watching your videos out of order … you are on fire!!! Just watched your vid about the crypts of Winterfell and I couldn’t help but notice the parallel between the Kings of Winterfell lined up against the walls of the crypts and those of the Children of the Forest lining Blood Raven/Bran the Builders cave. Does any other family have a crypt like this?
You're not wrong. Just doesn't feel like a huge realization tho. Still, your tree/wall theory keeps me coming back. Not sure if I'm on board, but I am intrigued.
14:18 One interesting thing in the wikipedia article of Bob Weir you showed was after the group disbanded Weir performed with "The Other Ones" later known as "The Dead". So that would be something further linking the Weirwoods to the Others.
Love you're thinking on the weirwoods & the wall. I'd be interested in your deeper thoughts on the cave ward kicking out skin changers - there must be an original reason why this spell particularly. Does this go back to the night king/nightfort/wall & if he was a Stark preventing the other Starks freeing him maybe? And for the Others does this lean to them being skinchangers/greenseers, and preventing them repeating what they've done in the past. And for coldhands it raises questions too - is he being skinchanged by someone? Presumably it would be Bloodraven if he was, but if he's much older than Bloodraven then could it be one of the children/others in the wall putting events in motion that will help free them? So many questions!!
I would think this spell to break warg magic could even be older than that. If you view tree towns as a child of the forest fortress of sorts it kinda makes sense. You wouldn't want wargs from outside able to spy on your town so you stop all that magic at the border. Within the town is fine, you may even be able to set it up with magic working from the inside out (I am not sure about this but it would make sense to me) so that you could warg from inside your fortress and look out but not be spied on from outside. If I was a COTF building a magic tree town this looks like the magic I would want in my walls, even before men showed up. With Coldhands I do wonder if he is skinchanged by the weirwood consciousness that Bran will eventually link with. Or maybe like his own life force has been forced back into him as a shell Beric style sorta but the ice version and like gets visions from time Bran and that is why he says he is "your monster" to Bran.
@@michaeltalksaboutstuff the tree town angle does make sense & your description as cotf fortress made me think of storms end & Mel having to sneak through to get the shadow baby inside, so would definitely make sense with that kind of magic about if it wards against that too! Coldhands is just very interesting whichever way George takes him! If wighted then being a version of how Jon will turn out too, think I heard that on David Lightbringer's channel, so if Jon isn't able to cross into these places after being resurrected but doesn't realise it could be very interesting too!
The dragons have never been able, or willing to fly over the Wall either, so its' had some sort of super mojo Force Field capability from the start, it would seem. Not sure if the horn breaks the "spell", or will physically "bring down the wall", like Jericho.
I think if it does the spell we see it could break the ice down and then further action is required to remove the ward/power source. This could explain how the horn may have been blown but the walls base structure and ward are still in place. Also that is possibly why Mance may have blown the horn if he found it. He was thinking they might be able to knock the ice off and still hide behind the wall of warded trees. But then again Tormund claims he was only bluffing and wouldn't have blown it so who knows... In terms of dragons and the wall, I will have to talk about it in a video soon, but if they are a mind bond between sacrifices in some way ("3 heads" as some form of bond) then they might refuse to fly over the wall directly because it would rip their minds apart like bran and Hodor are separated... That is my current thought anyway
@@michaeltalksaboutstuff I don't think they have to bring down 100% of the Wall either, just to "breach" it enough for folks to walk through. Even just a stretch a hundred yards wide, would only be a tiny percentage of it's overall length. No different than breaching a castle wall, once you have one hole, you're in and can expand it later. Cheers!
Read the description at 11:10 for the trees. The way he describes the snow on the trees alluding to the fact what looks like a big pile of icy snow might not be because, "they didn't look like trees at all" because of all the ice they carried. they are bowed and twisted. It might explain how they extend so far if they are in the wall. BUt those would have to be HUGE WW trees to bee 200 feet tall while bowed and bent. I wonder how wide they could cover with one tree. Are the 79 sentinels strapped to trees or are they just literally frozen in the wall?
I never really got into conan as a kid but ive been picking it up and im thinking more and more that asoiaf is a part of that story between the hyborean age and current age. All the Lovecraftian stuff is also conan stuff. The white walkers are essentially frost giants. Ps. Those would have to be very tall trees if the wall is a frozen forest.
Very tall indeed. Also some glaciation could push the wall up above them a bit in my mind, but yeah still very big. The well at the nightfort looks to be a super tall weirwood trunk. I think we are dealing with some giant weirwoods in the wall
@@Loreweavver One of my favorite moments of late season game of thrones cope was people doing the math and realizing the travel times in season 6 or 7 work with no jetpack if you assume everyone is 3-4 feet tall and all the distance measurements are off an equal amount hahaha tiny people indeed
@@michaeltalksaboutstuff lol. I remember that. There's kinda something to it in the books though. Size is important when there are dwarfs and giants involved. I'm fairly sure there is at least one great sword in the story that was originally forged as a one handed weapon for a larger person and thats a pretty common trope. There's also a lot of ruins that seem built for bigger persons. Still though, the cope was strong towards the final seasons.
- Regarding the UNDYING ONES I think they are these: 16:19 - 12:44 This is a blatant lie. He is supposed to be an ancient Stark and looks nothing like a Stark. Everything the 3-Eyed Raven / Crow shows Bran is "edited". We saw this when it photoshopped Jaime out of Bran's memory. Why is the crow lying? "All crows are liars" Because I am 99.97% sure that when we get the actual reveal, we will see it is Jon Snow. Just are Bran is in the same physical shape as Bran the Builder, Jon Snow has the same wound in his chest as the Night King. - A "quick or you'll miss it" from the entrance is that the UNDEAD faced the cave, daring whoever was in to come out. They could not get in, but those inside could not get out. - When the Night King entered, he ignored Bran and immediately attacked BloodRaven/Bran the Builder. THIS is where the true animosity lies. - Using the old vampire trope, the UNDEAD and bewitched have to be invited/escorted in. - You picked up a HUGE clue that confirms something for me. "Bran being kicked out of Hodor!!!" First of all, I believe Bran the Builder has been living multiple consecutive 2nd lives in the Children Green Seers. When he ran out or needed something smuggled into the cave, he lured Blood Raven to the cave. Bran was being groomed so that Bran the Builder could inhabit his body. However, it was contingent upon Bran INVITING Bran the Builder/Blood Raven in and being a willing host. This is how a bewitched Bran could cross under the wall to Winterfell. My ultimate theory is that the Children of the Forest made a HUGE mistake with the Night King/OG Jon Snow. They accidentally made him immortal=UNDEAD like Jon is now. There is power in "kinSblood" (B+L=J). This is why Bran the Builder created the crypts of Winterfell to entomb his half-brother. But not before castrating him.
I recently discovered your channel and I'm going through the playlist. This is a relatively old video, so I'm not sure that you're ever going to see this, but I believe that there's something else to the word "weirwood" other than a pun to Bob Weir. I'm Italian, and in the official translations of the books (which I assume would be approved by George), weirwoods are called "alberi diga", which literally means "dam trees". I did some quick googling and apparently there is also this English word "weir" which also means "small dam". It's probably a small hint at best, but if the Wall is in fact full of weirwoods then they would be literally acting like a dam against the horde of Others that is preparing for the Long Night. Thoughts?
They do, and while Tormund says it wasn't really THE horn it was a very impressive and old looking horn. I wonder if it had any sort of spells in it. I will have to look back at all these horns sometime
@@michaeltalksaboutstuffI'd love to see your ideas about the horns in general. Your content is so interesting & well backed up with citations! I've never heard such a strong concept for what the H of J actually does to bring down the wall. I literally LOL'd when I processed what you said here, cuz it is THAT satisfying to me. To think that the wall would only fall down by means of some tool that can only be operated by the human life force of breath, it's like poetry written by the very hands of the children of the forest! I used to write short fantasy stories about human explorers in the forest I live near just for funsies, & that led me to learn about Sasquatch myths & beliefs. What's said about how they communicate and protect themselves is varied, but part of what I used was that they are believed to use infrasonic sounds to alter the behavior of other living matter around them, fauna and flora alike. That the hairs on the back of people's necks would stand up & all of the insects stop making noise, all of the plant life goes still when they are all picking up on distant silent waves of distressed bigfoot chatter. So when I soaked in that thought "Maybe the horn emits some kind of crazy infrasonic waves that more or less give weirwoods wild, contagious tree-seizures", this is the most satisfying piece of the puzzle for months lol. So I'd love to hear ur thoughts about more of these legendary horns someday! & tydm @Robertrub5503 for mentioning this too, of course. I read the books after the end of the show, so it wasn't all that long ago. But I somehow either forgot that, or missed that entirely. But I won't forget again, thx to ur mention of it
Going along with the understanding that the Wall must be brought down because it is problematic, it makes perfect narrative sense for Jon Snow to choose to go to Winterfell to save Arya right before his death. It puts the political landscape of the Night’s Watch into complete disarray, hinting the “structure” of the Wall is going to crumble. Also, it makes the parallels between Jon, Ned and Jaime (possibly Rhaegar also) hit even harder, in that they are paragons of that idea of honor and chivalry but end their stories with tarnished reputations for the sake of saving the realm
I love your theories! Some thoughts: Trees eat the air. How are they still alive encased in ice? The whole point of trees needing water is so they can uptake CO2 without their cells desiccating. In fact evaporation at the leaves is the mechanism that drives water from the roots up to the branches. Either weirwoods have a different metabolism than trees on earth or they are being fed by other trees in the network. Maybe mediated through the mycorrhizae. What if the magic of the weirwoods is in their symbiotic fungus rather than the trees themselves? That would be very George.
I would say if a green seer plugged into the tree is the one doing it that works well as a source of the magic good call. I kinda think of those guys linked to the trees as one with the trees will on some level at this point. So him or time bran could be doing it through the trees
the wall has never fallen nowhere is it shown that weirwoods can grow 700feet though they do grow forever if left alone. maybe they are in the wall beneath it and provide magic to the wall but they don't maintain it. weather and the men do. maybe the 14 flames in valeria also had something similar to keep the volcanoes from erupting, and the faceless men gave them the gift of death.
If the Not Living such as Cold Hands and the wights cannot pass through a tunnel between two warded weirwoods then what good would bringing the Wall down do since the White Walkers would still have to pass between two weirwoods?
I have wondered about this. A few ways it could go in my head at the moment. It could be that the horn would have done as you said, left the trees and broken the ice. That would let people pass but kept the ward, therefore the wildlings blowing it could have still hidden behind the wall. (which they seem to maybe think they still might be safe if they blew the horn, but that is up in the air imo) If that is how it works the horn blowing the ice off the wall could expose the power source which is the bodies strapped to the trees, which would allow you to do things that could further remove the magic and the wards or destroy the trees/power source. This could be why when the horn was blown in the past the wall rebuilt because blowing the horn is only step 1 to full deconstruction. Or the horn has multiple spells in it and one of them breaks the ward as the other does what we see here shaking the trees free of ice. However this means after the horn was blown the wall needed to be re-warded, which I could see also having been done.
There's power in king's blood...Bloodraven is king's blood,and Daemon Targaryen if he at the Isle of Faces,plugged into a tree like Bloodraven, and possibly the king's of Winter in the crypts,which makes Bran of king's blood...is that power keeping the Wall up. Melisandre feels stronger at the Wall,than even Asshai. Something's going on there.
Thar be Giants in that thar Wall, har! Yeah-that horn DOES wake Giants. That Wall WAS made with blood. And when that horn blows...those Giants are waking up. And that Wall is coming DOWN. Why do you think Ygritte gets SO sad and mad about that song and talking to Jon about it? What Leaf tells Bran about the Giants? The giants were a problem...they needed a TALL wall, built on magics, by magics. Sooooo, trick the giants into "helping build" a big ole wall...and then trap them. A sad solution for all the rest of them. Shity, really. And there are trees. At least one REALLY big tree. With a face. And that it runs DEEP into the ground there. The trees are likely the reason that the wall continually grows. I did not hear if you said that, sorry. You prolly did, I will listen again.
The cave which Bran Stark and his companions meet Leaf the Child of the Forest, and the Three-Eyed Raven is like the Children of the Forest's underground tree town.
Always wondered wtf the Undying let Dany get close to them... wanting death, thats the best reason I've heard tbh... I mean it's as least as good as, they tired to kill her and just read the timeline wrong...
Yeah the hall awash in gloom and the way they seem trapped in their place. The undying state they are in is a sad one. Also they "dance" and raise their hands when they burn. Reads as celebratory if you want to take it that way. Pyat Pree is so mad because the shadows in the house of the undying were the power source for the warlocks so that in addition to his temple being burned down is why he is freaking out IMO, meanwhile the undying themselves are like "finally"
i think it’s a good sign you already have more views on this video than subscribers, hopefully the algorithm picks you up soon more! I’ll do an old gods blood sacrifice AND a lord of light kings blood sacrifice just to be safe, praying for you! :) do you have any ideas on anybody that’s overlooked that has kings blood that might be good for it?
Ive been working my way thru your videos. I haven't heard you mention the 79 sentinels yet. No idea if 79 is a significant number but mayhaps there are 79 humans frozen in the Wall?
This whole theory reminds me of the plot of the Netflix movie The Apostle. In it there is an island that sacrifices blood to a goddess to do what they want her to do, but this is a perversion of her nature so eventually nothing grows well and she needs more and more blood. Eventually the good guy kills her, which she wants, and replaces her as the new god of the island and he no longer eats blood, restoring the island back to its natural state before the people took over.
I have to assume there is something to do with them being brought through the wall by the watch but I am not sure exactly how it works. Assuming its something like the ward is broken if you intend to bring them in and physically do. If that is how it works then my main question would be why Coldhands doesn't have them bring him inside the cave, rather than just flatly saying he can't pass. But perhaps it is because he has no purpose for being in there and there is other things he can do outside. That seems to be why he would have sent Sam through the wall rather than being like "you have to carry me through the door both ways" (assuming that would even work). He stayed beyond the wall because he had things to do. Maybe he stayed out of the cave for the same reason.
I think, rather than going through the Wall with a dragon or a horn, the Others will go under the Wall by travelling through the tunnels. Its been hinted at with that one story of a king beyond the Wall, and i think it will allow the Others through, which is why its warded. I believe the horn waking the dead kings of winter in the crypts theory also fyi so that influences my belief in the tunnel theory
The name of the Weirwoods most likely relate to the Norse concept of Wyrd which means fate. Or the Wyrd sister in Shakespearian stories but in Norse stories called the Norns who weave the fate of men. But considering George was a hippie I wouldn't put it past him. It would also be funny if Weirwood just meant Weird Tree in whatever dialect the First Men spoke.
If Leaf is Old Nan and Nettles, and Sheepstealer is dragon; and dragons cannot pass through the wall? If Leaf is beyond the Wall, where is Sheepstealer? Is her bond with Sheepstealer broken like Jon and Ghost due to the wall? If Dragons cannot pass through the wall and they like Valyrian Steel swords are formed from trapped Human souls, are Dragons like wights then? If Valyrian Steel swords also have trapped Human souls then are they wights and if they are how come the Wall lets them pass but not Dragons?
I think Sheepstealer right now is probably hanging north of the wall somewhere having flown around the wall over the ocean with Nettle Nan. Possibly waiting by that sink hole that is the back entrance? Possibly just keeping safe to wait for the next time he is needed as a ride. Her connection could have been broken while she was at winterfell but IDK, depends on where Sheepstealer was kept. In terms of the swords, if they do have souls in them and are thus similar to wights then it might be the same way wights were able to pass the wall when carried over the barrier by the nights watch. Perhaps being brought over by the living is a loophole that could get the swords over the barrier if they are in fact full of people.
@michaeltalksaboutstuff I have to ask this question because no one addresses it. Why are all the Others male, with the exception of Night's Queen, and the Children of the Forest all female?
Acok Jon III "Thousands of years ago,[4] Joramun, a King-Beyond-the-Wall, supposedly blew the horn and woke giants from the earth." I think you are on to something I always thought the giants from the earth were earthquakes but it being these trees makes more sense.
O shit-something else you bring up regarding Coldhands. HERE is what Coldhands really tells us, to date; He was a brother of the NW, yet he cannot pass thru the Black Gate. The Others cannot pass, either. BUT Jeor brings back wights that CAN pass/rezz successfully. Why can those whytes come thru, but not Coldhands as a member of the NW and clearly NOT a whyte or an agent of The Others? WtF is going on there? We are def supposed to notice that Coldhands really should be able to pass-it is very troubling that he can't. IF Jon rezzes on the north side of that wall, he CANNOT pass back through until that Wall comes down. It's going to be BADBADBAD if Jon's body is taken north of that wall. There is a ward at the Tree Bran is under. THAT same shit is the ward keeping Coldhands from passing thru the frikin wall. There are still {barely} living peeps strapped to the roots where Bran is-I love that you see how much sense that makes to connect it to wtf is preventing Coldhands at the wall...but WHY can't the whytes pass ito where Bran is when they CAN pass thru the Wall? SOMETHING is different between those two places. Or something has changed-those whytes should not have been able to rezz. UNLESS it is by invite ONLY. By The Lord Commander. THAT is the ONLY major difference in text, to date. Is it me, or does it look like the Others are trying to find a way to pass through the Wall WITHOUT bringing it down OR are they trying to find a way to force a Lord Commander to INVITE them through? Right? Am I missing something? Sidenote-I didn't know that about Bob Weir...but it makes me smile because his name was the first thing I thought of when my first read through lol. I LOVE the Dead-I used to see them live regularly up to their last show. So that was a crazy fact to me. Thanks! It also explains the extremely GD artwork look to some of those sigils...whoa.
I do think there is something weird up with the fact that those wights came through the wall, but the way you phrase it as invited by the lord commander does really make sense of it to me. That is a good way to put it. I had assumed the only real way it was possible was because they were carried across the barrier but that itself seemed a little weak, but the command of the man in charge of the wall bringing them through having something to do with it on a magical level kinda really does make sense. Like inviting a vampire into your home, maybe the dead can pass the wall if whoever is in charge of the order sworn to guard the magic wall lets them. Also I think Jon will be trapped on one side of the wall with the ghost soul in him making him a magical bonded entity like a dragon or Orell's eagle. He might end up resurrected south of the wall and not able to ever go north of it until the old ways magic is broken and the rebirth has happened. Which even though they didn't explain it in the show there was the ending scene where Jon goes off north of the wall and it was played all dramatic and important... If the books reveal he was stopped by its magic then in the context of it meaning the old ways and the magic that marked the end of the world is gone it would be a much more dramatic end for the undead Jon to leave north of the wall in the end... But who knows if that end was from GRRM... But if it was then Jon going north of the wall like that would have hit a lot harder with this idea in mind.
Theory is completely DESTROYED by one line in the book. When Mormont asks Tyrion to talk to his sister’s death the king about sending more men to the wall. Mormont tells him all former lord commanders had enough builders that they worked to leave the wall taller than they found it.
13:11 food for thought: notice that it’s a “he” who wants to open a wrinkled mouth, meanwhile the children in the cave seem to be females, and all the rest of the characters who have been speculated to be children of the forest (Nettles, Old Nan, the ghost of High Heart, and so on) are females too, meanwhile the only female other we seem to know of is the night’s queen, all the rest of the White Walkers seem to be males, and they only take in male babies.
Bro you are totally killing it with these Ice & Fire videos! Your theories are so logical and based on multiple, very solid, supporting facts. I’m a book fan, not a show fan, so your use of book sources is very refreshing. I’m loving it! Don’t stop! ❤️
Second that!
I hope more people find your theories, I haven’t seen new theories like this in a while that make so much sense
I would imagine the way that the weirwoods are "shaken" is through some magic frequency that makes them vibrate, just like we can make water or other substances vibrate through certain frequencies in real life. This would explain why the horn that Sam has (given that it is actually the horn of winter) makes no sound, we just can't hear it through human ears. Then, (around 9:30 in the video) if it's Leaf that made the weirwood shake to save Bran, it means the COTF can hear and sing that magic frequency, which i think is really cool
Agreed, I think in fact if you want a science explanation the horn is tuned to the resonance frequency of the wall. It is likely a thing that I will make a video on some day. Sort of like the Tacoma Narrows bridge shook itself apart with frequency or how mythbusters had their break step bridge episode. Lots of very interesting effects with frequencies and resonance that work basically like magic. So IMO a perfect real life thing to work into a magic system.
Really ingenious theory. We might never know if it’s true because even if GRRM finishes the books, he might choose to leave some mysteries unresolved. But it should be true, because it adds so much texture to the universe.
thank you for giving us plenty to think about!
7:30 What if the reason why dragons can't go over the wall is because of that spell?
That could confirm either that dragonriders and dragons' minds are connected or other more complex theory regarding the creation of dragons and their tie to valyrians
This is coming in a video soon.(probably this week) I think this is exactly why, I have speculated in previous videos that the idea of the 3 heads of the dragon is because the dragons are a mind-meld consciousness bond type thing by their very existence. Then in addition to that form a bond with the rider for a 3 headed mind bond. And passing the wall rips those bonds apart so a dragon passing over the wall would be mentally ripped apart. Seems like a good reason to say no to the command to fly over the wall to me.
I just thought of a very GRRMy sort of "Pun" that might tie into your Wall Theory, nicely. A "pale" is an old name for a "Wall" around a village/fort made of vertical logs(trees), semi-buried and often sharpened at the top. To "go beyond the pale" means to go "beyond the Wall"/act dangerously, as it were. GRRM has now made a snow White(pale) Pale/Wall to keep out snow White(pale) Wight Walkers who are forever trying to go "beyond the pale(The Wall)"/act dangerously. etc.....He does love his wordplay, doesn't he? Cheers!
His word play game is up there with the absolute best of the best. Didn't realize that is where "beyond the pale" comes from. Certainly seems like a thing GRRM would know and maybe have in mind
@@michaeltalksaboutstuff You can still see the word "pale" in words like "palisade", which means basically the same thing. All old, Roman and frontier "forts" would use these sorts of vertical log walls, as well.
The "mare"(English), "mère" & "mer"(French) puns are great too "mare" = female horse; "mère" = mother(French); "mer" = Sea(French). "Pale Mare" = White/"Silver" horse is also the Horse of Death in Revelations from the Bible(i.e. the "pale rider" of folklore). Dany is also herself a "pale mère"(pale/white mother) due to her Valyrian features and role as Khaleesi.
In summary, Dany is a pale mère, riding her pale mare, across the pale mer whilst bringing the Pale Mare.
....like I said, he loves his wordplay ;) Swing by the LML stream later!
@@KarlKarsnarkalso, a pale mare is a wordplay on the dark horse trope. Something or someone that's not set up to win or succeed.
@@abelsampaio389 Yes, she's the "Dark Horse" candidate arriving in town atop a white horse.....and a black dragon!
10:04 that tree shaking the snow off its branches is one of those moments that had me like wait…what just happened?? On purpose!? And this explanation makes so much sense and has me literally jaw-dropped. I think my dog is concerned. Great video!
right, I remember being like WTF but quickly forgetting about it in all the rest of everything. Now I realize that was the intent. It is meant to feel like a cheap way to save Bran and then in hindsight it isn't cheap at all, it is doing set up for later.
Part of what makes this series so re-readable! There’s always an extra tidbit you glossed over on your first read that totally floors you on your 2nd/3rd/etc
Got one more for you. The Brandon chap in WOW literally ends with Bran seeing a ton of different versions of himself impaled on the spikes in the sinkhole. It blew my mind listening to that.
That's the Preston Jacobs fan fiction version. George left Bran in that cave, tasting blood.
A tree shaking snow off of its limbs is a Far Cry from breaking out of solid ice
The best original theories I've seen in a long time!
* minor tweak to something here.
I believe pretty much everything Michael has said in his videos so far is absolutely spot on (I'm working my way through them)
I don't believe the trees in The Wall will "shake the ice free"
Blowing on the horn will summon a moon meteor that will crash into The Wall, freeing the trees.
There is SO MUCH meteor symbology, it's definitely where George is going with this.
Love these videos, keep up all the good work!
So I will give a bit of a spoiler since you are already on board I am sure I am not giving away too much. One video topic on my to do list coming soon is under the working title "The Tree and The Moon".
To the direct point you bring up I would say my current thought is this. Wall can fall with trees shaking the ice free. Long night likely falls when the trees die and upon their dying their last bit of magic, they call down a moon meteor and plunge the world into darkness.
Either that or the only way to kill the world tree is by someone else calling a moon meteor that hits them. But in any case I do think a moon meteor does have a pretty solid chance of crashing down at some point.
Plunging the world into darkness upon death might also be a last play by the weirwoods to guarantee their own rebirth. They may be the only tree able to grow without light. Making them the natural choice for a new world tree every time they plunge the world into darkness. Then having split their hive mind into shadows who can sweep over everything until the people plant a new healthy tree to put the consciousness into, they basically made enforcers who will be there when they die to ensure people want a new tree planted.
Lots of speculation there, but I could see it playing out something like that if it is all a big weirwood control system/scheme. A few more thoughts to get together before the vid as there is more to the ancient lore about the moon I wanna talk about, but it is a topic I am really looking forward to.
Still up in the air if the moon and trees are working together or they are opposite forces fighting for control haha but either way its a bit of a yin and yang thing going on and a bit of order and chaos and I think the dance of the tree and the moon is part of this cycle.
You might know this one already but this is one of my favorite lines toward the idea the old trees might try pull down the moon meteor upon death.
"It grew very quiet in the castle kitchen then. Bran could hear the soft crackle of the flames, the wind stirring the leaves in the night, the creak of the skinny weirwood reaching for the moon."
Bran 4 ASOS
@@michaeltalksaboutstuff - I love this detailed explanation, I'm on board! :)
This is definitely going to give me a lot to think about during my next re-read! :)
Great stuff. Michael you’re easily now in my top three Song of Ice and Fire analysts in terms of unraveling the deepest mysteries and symbolism in the books. The other two are: David Lightbringer, who I think has figured out most of the comet/Long Night symbolism, the Weirwood paste is greenseer brains, the Kingsguard as symbolic others, and some of his ideas on how the Weirwoods were corrupted, although I think he’s missing out on some of the secret identity plots, and the third is the best I’ve seen on those secret identity plots - the Order of the Green Hand, who I think have mostly unraveled the Mance/Arthur Dayne, Tormund (Gerald Hightower), qhorin Halfhand (Oswald Went) conspiracy, although I think their big swing on Jon Snow being Ned’s true born son with Ashara Dayne is likely wrong, with all of the clues they see leading to that conclusion, I think, are because Ned did a baby switch fooling the Kingsguard nights sent on their mission to the Wall giving them his true born daughter with Ashara Val, who they wrongly think is Rhaegar’s heir, while Ned kept Jon. Order of the Greenhand is also excellent on exposing Doran Martell as being some kind of death worshiping ally to the Others, possibly because water magic is naturally linked to Ice somehow and opposing fire, but this is where trying to decode who the factions are and what their motivations truly are is so difficult for this epic. I think you’re right on track with your theories about the Wall, guest rights, the frozen nature of the culture of the North compared to the radical nature of the culture of the Valyrians (but why do they also seem to be aligned somehow via the Targaryens who also seem to “Remember”?) and the methods of immortality via fire magic/glass candles, ice magic via the Others and the Weirwoods, which is maybe also a kind of Earth immortality, and then there’s the water magic immortality or resurrection in play with Patchface, and the Deep Ones and The ‘Squishers’. The key question that needs to be answered/decoded in these books is identifying who are the different factions and what do they really want? With the understanding that many of the characters are likely ignorant of the real reasons why they are pursuing different goals, motivated either by manipulation or misunderstanding various prophecies. That’s the mystery I think that needs to be untangled to bring enough clarity to the plot to really understand the story. Maybe you’ll be the guy to do it! Keep up the good work.
Thank you for the high place in your ranks! In general that main question is what I am working toward. The players on the biggest level as you say. Who are the puppet masters who actually are battling and over what. I think I have a good layout but there is more work and research to be done before it goes public.
@@michaeltalksaboutstuff hahaha! just seen the video and listened to another fabulous piece of work you gave away for free (...) i can't resist to write "i told you so". well done, lots of new stuff to think about! still processing the last one, though... i have no counter arguements but a few ides and questions ^^ it's late over here, which saves you for now. brilliant ideas and conclusions again!
New favorite channel. Subscribed with alerts!!!!
GRRM does lots of wordplay on the words "pale" and "mare", "mere", "mare" and "Pale Mare" during Dany's Dothraki Sea scenes on her Silver (pale, white) horse, as well. Same idea of being "beyond the pale"/in the wilderness in a white/wight/dead environment.
Karl...April Mae here and hellos! What you're saying about word-play is spot on! For example-ALL the stories about knight's being in Westeros BEFORE the concept actually shows up there with the Andals. It keeps coming up, over and over and over. I THINK that it is probable that the Night's Watch plays into that-and it becomes Knight's Watch 1000's of years ago. Because of the wall's purpose, why it was built and the men who man it all, things that have happened there and around it or because of it...well, the words and concepts all blend together and morph into something else almost completely over time...BUT the original story/facts leave remnents in ancient stories. Hence there being Knight's before there are knights. That is just how I read it. Be well!
@@aprilmae274 Hola! GRRM is great at twisting and flipping words to convey multiple meanings and motifs. One of the most fun parts of reading the books. See you in the Streams!
I'mma say it. I think you're the new Preston Jacobs (compliment lol)
I wonder if the Greensingers in Bloodravem's cave are similar but have one fundamental difference to the Undying beneath the Wall, they are there by choice. They chose to give up their place in the cycle of life and death, in order to protect their people from harm. Meanwhile, the Undying it seems were put there against their will. The Night's King and his Queen of Winter for example were forced into that bondage rather than willingly sacrificing themselves to it.
Another difference could be that the Greensingers in the cave are the "true" form of Weirwood immortality, the Green magic that is inherent to the Children of the Forest rather than crossing that with the Dragonglass Candles that happens beneath the Wall. They are willingly giving their minds and magical energy into the trees, kept alive by them in order to function as living magical batteries. If the Wall was created via a perversion of Green magic by tainting it with Fire magic from Valyria, that would explain why the Greensingers are seated and comfortable rather than crucified and tortured eternally.
Really like this theory! I've always thought it'd make sense for fire to be involved in bringing down the Wall, possibly with Shireen's burning being done to stop the wall from falling but ends up helping it come down sooner by melting it. It'd make sense if there are actual trees beneath the ice, so then when the horn is blown to shake off the ice the trees would normally still remain behind to keep up the magical protection and form the base to rebuild the wall again. Except if there's simultanously a fire raging out of control, it could burn the trees and effectively destroy the magical barrier as well as the physical one, which would be much worse than what the horn of joramum originally intended. It'd be ironic for the Mel to light a fire to protect them but it only helps destroy their protection.
Fascinating idea of the trees underneath the wall. Creepy af.
Watching your videos out of order … you are on fire!!!
Just watched your vid about the crypts of Winterfell and I couldn’t help but notice the parallel between the Kings of Winterfell lined up against the walls of the crypts and those of the Children of the Forest lining Blood Raven/Bran the Builders cave. Does any other family have a crypt like this?
We don’t see it up close but I wonder what barrowtown crypts look like
You're not wrong. Just doesn't feel like a huge realization tho.
Still, your tree/wall theory keeps me coming back. Not sure if I'm on board, but I am intrigued.
Lil mini Preston Jacob’s over here 😊 subbed
14:18 One interesting thing in the wikipedia article of Bob Weir you showed was after the group disbanded Weir performed with "The Other Ones" later known as "The Dead". So that would be something further linking the Weirwoods to the Others.
Its like a tree internet basically and the three eyed crow is the server
I fricking love this channel
Love you're thinking on the weirwoods & the wall. I'd be interested in your deeper thoughts on the cave ward kicking out skin changers - there must be an original reason why this spell particularly. Does this go back to the night king/nightfort/wall & if he was a Stark preventing the other Starks freeing him maybe? And for the Others does this lean to them being skinchangers/greenseers, and preventing them repeating what they've done in the past. And for coldhands it raises questions too - is he being skinchanged by someone? Presumably it would be Bloodraven if he was, but if he's much older than Bloodraven then could it be one of the children/others in the wall putting events in motion that will help free them? So many questions!!
I would think this spell to break warg magic could even be older than that. If you view tree towns as a child of the forest fortress of sorts it kinda makes sense. You wouldn't want wargs from outside able to spy on your town so you stop all that magic at the border. Within the town is fine, you may even be able to set it up with magic working from the inside out (I am not sure about this but it would make sense to me) so that you could warg from inside your fortress and look out but not be spied on from outside. If I was a COTF building a magic tree town this looks like the magic I would want in my walls, even before men showed up.
With Coldhands I do wonder if he is skinchanged by the weirwood consciousness that Bran will eventually link with. Or maybe like his own life force has been forced back into him as a shell Beric style sorta but the ice version and like gets visions from time Bran and that is why he says he is "your monster" to Bran.
@@michaeltalksaboutstuff the tree town angle does make sense & your description as cotf fortress made me think of storms end & Mel having to sneak through to get the shadow baby inside, so would definitely make sense with that kind of magic about if it wards against that too!
Coldhands is just very interesting whichever way George takes him! If wighted then being a version of how Jon will turn out too, think I heard that on David Lightbringer's channel, so if Jon isn't able to cross into these places after being resurrected but doesn't realise it could be very interesting too!
The dragons have never been able, or willing to fly over the Wall either, so its' had some sort of super mojo Force Field capability from the start, it would seem. Not sure if the horn breaks the "spell", or will physically "bring down the wall", like Jericho.
I think if it does the spell we see it could break the ice down and then further action is required to remove the ward/power source. This could explain how the horn may have been blown but the walls base structure and ward are still in place.
Also that is possibly why Mance may have blown the horn if he found it. He was thinking they might be able to knock the ice off and still hide behind the wall of warded trees. But then again Tormund claims he was only bluffing and wouldn't have blown it so who knows...
In terms of dragons and the wall, I will have to talk about it in a video soon, but if they are a mind bond between sacrifices in some way ("3 heads" as some form of bond) then they might refuse to fly over the wall directly because it would rip their minds apart like bran and Hodor are separated... That is my current thought anyway
@@michaeltalksaboutstuff I don't think they have to bring down 100% of the Wall either, just to "breach" it enough for folks to walk through. Even just a stretch a hundred yards wide, would only be a tiny percentage of it's overall length. No different than breaching a castle wall, once you have one hole, you're in and can expand it later. Cheers!
Really enjoying your content! Keep up the great work!
Another audible click is heard in this description great video sir
Read the description at 11:10 for the trees. The way he describes the snow on the trees alluding to the fact what looks like a big pile of icy snow might not be because, "they didn't look like trees at all" because of all the ice they carried. they are bowed and twisted. It might explain how they extend so far if they are in the wall. BUt those would have to be HUGE WW trees to bee 200 feet tall while bowed and bent. I wonder how wide they could cover with one tree. Are the 79 sentinels strapped to trees or are they just literally frozen in the wall?
Imagine if the whole world is a tree. Like the roots have colonised the world a long time ago. I love your videos man!
I never really got into conan as a kid but ive been picking it up and im thinking more and more that asoiaf is a part of that story between the hyborean age and current age.
All the Lovecraftian stuff is also conan stuff. The white walkers are essentially frost giants.
Ps. Those would have to be very tall trees if the wall is a frozen forest.
Very tall indeed. Also some glaciation could push the wall up above them a bit in my mind, but yeah still very big. The well at the nightfort looks to be a super tall weirwood trunk. I think we are dealing with some giant weirwoods in the wall
@@michaeltalksaboutstuff or really tiny people
@@Loreweavver One of my favorite moments of late season game of thrones cope was people doing the math and realizing the travel times in season 6 or 7 work with no jetpack if you assume everyone is 3-4 feet tall and all the distance measurements are off an equal amount hahaha tiny people indeed
@@michaeltalksaboutstuff lol. I remember that. There's kinda something to it in the books though. Size is important when there are dwarfs and giants involved.
I'm fairly sure there is at least one great sword in the story that was originally forged as a one handed weapon for a larger person and thats a pretty common trope.
There's also a lot of ruins that seem built for bigger persons.
Still though, the cope was strong towards the final seasons.
- Regarding the UNDYING ONES I think they are these: 16:19
- 12:44 This is a blatant lie. He is supposed to be an ancient Stark and looks nothing like a Stark. Everything the 3-Eyed Raven / Crow shows Bran is "edited". We saw this when it photoshopped Jaime out of Bran's memory. Why is the crow lying? "All crows are liars" Because I am 99.97% sure that when we get the actual reveal, we will see it is Jon Snow. Just are Bran is in the same physical shape as Bran the Builder, Jon Snow has the same wound in his chest as the Night King.
- A "quick or you'll miss it" from the entrance is that the UNDEAD faced the cave, daring whoever was in to come out. They could not get in, but those inside could not get out.
- When the Night King entered, he ignored Bran and immediately attacked BloodRaven/Bran the Builder. THIS is where the true animosity lies.
- Using the old vampire trope, the UNDEAD and bewitched have to be invited/escorted in.
- You picked up a HUGE clue that confirms something for me. "Bran being kicked out of Hodor!!!"
First of all, I believe Bran the Builder has been living multiple consecutive 2nd lives in the Children Green Seers. When he ran out or needed something smuggled into the cave, he lured Blood Raven to the cave. Bran was being groomed so that Bran the Builder could inhabit his body. However, it was contingent upon Bran INVITING Bran the Builder/Blood Raven in and being a willing host. This is how a bewitched Bran could cross under the wall to Winterfell.
My ultimate theory is that the Children of the Forest made a HUGE mistake with the Night King/OG Jon Snow. They accidentally made him immortal=UNDEAD like Jon is now. There is power in "kinSblood" (B+L=J). This is why Bran the Builder created the crypts of Winterfell to entomb his half-brother. But not before castrating him.
I'm loving the videos, thank you!!
I recently discovered your channel and I'm going through the playlist. This is a relatively old video, so I'm not sure that you're ever going to see this, but I believe that there's something else to the word "weirwood" other than a pun to Bob Weir. I'm Italian, and in the official translations of the books (which I assume would be approved by George), weirwoods are called "alberi diga", which literally means "dam trees". I did some quick googling and apparently there is also this English word "weir" which also means "small dam". It's probably a small hint at best, but if the Wall is in fact full of weirwoods then they would be literally acting like a dam against the horde of Others that is preparing for the Long Night. Thoughts?
I was listening to dance again like I mentioned and when they burn rattleshirt they burn a horn too. I swear I heard that.
They do, and while Tormund says it wasn't really THE horn it was a very impressive and old looking horn. I wonder if it had any sort of spells in it. I will have to look back at all these horns sometime
@@michaeltalksaboutstuffI'd love to see your ideas about the horns in general. Your content is so interesting & well backed up with citations! I've never heard such a strong concept for what the H of J actually does to bring down the wall. I literally LOL'd when I processed what you said here, cuz it is THAT satisfying to me. To think that the wall would only fall down by means of some tool that can only be operated by the human life force of breath, it's like poetry written by the very hands of the children of the forest!
I used to write short fantasy stories about human explorers in the forest I live near just for funsies, & that led me to learn about Sasquatch myths & beliefs. What's said about how they communicate and protect themselves is varied, but part of what I used was that they are believed to use infrasonic sounds to alter the behavior of other living matter around them, fauna and flora alike. That the hairs on the back of people's necks would stand up & all of the insects stop making noise, all of the plant life goes still when they are all picking up on distant silent waves of distressed bigfoot chatter.
So when I soaked in that thought "Maybe the horn emits some kind of crazy infrasonic waves that more or less give weirwoods wild, contagious tree-seizures", this is the most satisfying piece of the puzzle for months lol. So I'd love to hear ur thoughts about more of these legendary horns someday!
& tydm @Robertrub5503 for mentioning this too, of course. I read the books after the end of the show, so it wasn't all that long ago. But I somehow either forgot that, or missed that entirely. But I won't forget again, thx to ur mention of it
Going along with the understanding that the Wall must be brought down because it is problematic, it makes perfect narrative sense for Jon Snow to choose to go to Winterfell to save Arya right before his death. It puts the political landscape of the Night’s Watch into complete disarray, hinting the “structure” of the Wall is going to crumble. Also, it makes the parallels between Jon, Ned and Jaime (possibly Rhaegar also) hit even harder, in that they are paragons of that idea of honor and chivalry but end their stories with tarnished reputations for the sake of saving the realm
I love your theories!
Some thoughts: Trees eat the air. How are they still alive encased in ice? The whole point of trees needing water is so they can uptake CO2 without their cells desiccating. In fact evaporation at the leaves is the mechanism that drives water from the roots up to the branches.
Either weirwoods have a different metabolism than trees on earth or they are being fed by other trees in the network. Maybe mediated through the mycorrhizae.
What if the magic of the weirwoods is in their symbiotic fungus rather than the trees themselves? That would be very George.
I'm not saying you're wrong but I just keep thinking about the fact that it could be blood Raven watching from the trees and being able to drop snow
I would say if a green seer plugged into the tree is the one doing it that works well as a source of the magic good call. I kinda think of those guys linked to the trees as one with the trees will on some level at this point. So him or time bran could be doing it through the trees
The horn doesn't need to be magical to "shake" other things, it simply needs to have the resonant frequency of the trees to make them shake
the wall has never fallen nowhere is it shown that weirwoods can grow 700feet though they do grow forever if left alone. maybe they are in the wall beneath it and provide magic to the wall but they don't maintain it. weather and the men do.
maybe the 14 flames in valeria also had something similar to keep the volcanoes from erupting, and the faceless men gave them the gift of death.
If the Not Living such as Cold Hands and the wights cannot pass through a tunnel between two warded weirwoods then what good would bringing the Wall down do since the White Walkers would still have to pass between two weirwoods?
I have wondered about this. A few ways it could go in my head at the moment.
It could be that the horn would have done as you said, left the trees and broken the ice. That would let people pass but kept the ward, therefore the wildlings blowing it could have still hidden behind the wall. (which they seem to maybe think they still might be safe if they blew the horn, but that is up in the air imo)
If that is how it works the horn blowing the ice off the wall could expose the power source which is the bodies strapped to the trees, which would allow you to do things that could further remove the magic and the wards or destroy the trees/power source. This could be why when the horn was blown in the past the wall rebuilt because blowing the horn is only step 1 to full deconstruction.
Or the horn has multiple spells in it and one of them breaks the ward as the other does what we see here shaking the trees free of ice. However this means after the horn was blown the wall needed to be re-warded, which I could see also having been done.
i think you're really on to something here, every single time i'm skeptical and then you convince me
nvm that grateful dead thing was too silly
There's power in king's blood...Bloodraven is king's blood,and Daemon Targaryen if he at the Isle of Faces,plugged into a tree like Bloodraven, and possibly the king's of Winter in the crypts,which makes Bran of king's blood...is that power keeping the Wall up. Melisandre feels stronger at the Wall,than even Asshai. Something's going on there.
The slaves of Old Valyria also wished for death, so some were given that gift too 🙂
Thar be Giants in that thar Wall, har! Yeah-that horn DOES wake Giants. That Wall WAS made with blood. And when that horn blows...those Giants are waking up. And that Wall is coming DOWN. Why do you think Ygritte gets SO sad and mad about that song and talking to Jon about it? What Leaf tells Bran about the Giants? The giants were a problem...they needed a TALL wall, built on magics, by magics. Sooooo, trick the giants into "helping build" a big ole wall...and then trap them. A sad solution for all the rest of them. Shity, really. And there are trees. At least one REALLY big tree. With a face. And that it runs DEEP into the ground there. The trees are likely the reason that the wall continually grows. I did not hear if you said that, sorry. You prolly did, I will listen again.
I have to say it-I LOVE that you know there are trees and people in that wall. I fucking LOVE it.
The cave which Bran Stark and his companions meet Leaf the Child of the Forest, and the Three-Eyed Raven is like the Children of the Forest's underground tree town.
Always wondered wtf the Undying let Dany get close to them... wanting death, thats the best reason I've heard tbh... I mean it's as least as good as, they tired to kill her and just read the timeline wrong...
Yeah the hall awash in gloom and the way they seem trapped in their place. The undying state they are in is a sad one. Also they "dance" and raise their hands when they burn. Reads as celebratory if you want to take it that way.
Pyat Pree is so mad because the shadows in the house of the undying were the power source for the warlocks so that in addition to his temple being burned down is why he is freaking out IMO, meanwhile the undying themselves are like "finally"
Can't believe I never made the Bob Weir connection before. I'm an embarrassed Deadhead now.
I can't tell if you're nuts or seeing through the matrix and I think that's awesome.😂
i think it’s a good sign you already have more views on this video than subscribers, hopefully the algorithm picks you up soon more! I’ll do an old gods blood sacrifice AND a lord of light kings blood sacrifice just to be safe, praying for you! :) do you have any ideas on anybody that’s overlooked that has kings blood that might be good for it?
Ive been working my way thru your videos.
I haven't heard you mention the 79 sentinels yet.
No idea if 79 is a significant number but mayhaps there are 79 humans frozen in the Wall?
"Why's this one in chains?"
"Killed some crossbowman." 😂😂
One of my favorite Jamie lines 😂
How did they get so many trees in a line? Wall stretches for miles that's alot of trees too...
Where do these trees get sun to stay alive. How do they support the weight of all that ice?
This whole theory reminds me of the plot of the Netflix movie The Apostle. In it there is an island that sacrifices blood to a goddess to do what they want her to do, but this is a perversion of her nature so eventually nothing grows well and she needs more and more blood. Eventually the good guy kills her, which she wants, and replaces her as the new god of the island and he no longer eats blood, restoring the island back to its natural state before the people took over.
So how did Othor and Jafer Flowers as wights stay “alive” after crossing through the wall
I have to assume there is something to do with them being brought through the wall by the watch but I am not sure exactly how it works. Assuming its something like the ward is broken if you intend to bring them in and physically do.
If that is how it works then my main question would be why Coldhands doesn't have them bring him inside the cave, rather than just flatly saying he can't pass. But perhaps it is because he has no purpose for being in there and there is other things he can do outside. That seems to be why he would have sent Sam through the wall rather than being like "you have to carry me through the door both ways" (assuming that would even work). He stayed beyond the wall because he had things to do. Maybe he stayed out of the cave for the same reason.
Ayo!! Check out the phone game a tale of crows, a lot of stuff about weirwoods in the wall
I think, rather than going through the Wall with a dragon or a horn, the Others will go under the Wall by travelling through the tunnels. Its been hinted at with that one story of a king beyond the Wall, and i think it will allow the Others through, which is why its warded. I believe the horn waking the dead kings of winter in the crypts theory also fyi so that influences my belief in the tunnel theory
Wait, in that one screenshot of the Wikipedia article. Bob Weir's old band was called "The Other Ones"? That's a hell of a coincidence lol
The name of the Weirwoods most likely relate to the Norse concept of Wyrd which means fate. Or the Wyrd sister in Shakespearian stories but in Norse stories called the Norns who weave the fate of men. But considering George was a hippie I wouldn't put it past him. It would also be funny if Weirwood just meant Weird Tree in whatever dialect the First Men spoke.
If Leaf is Old Nan and Nettles, and Sheepstealer is dragon; and dragons cannot pass through the wall? If Leaf is beyond the Wall, where is Sheepstealer? Is her bond with Sheepstealer broken like Jon and Ghost due to the wall? If Dragons cannot pass through the wall and they like Valyrian Steel swords are formed from trapped Human souls, are Dragons like wights then? If Valyrian Steel swords also have trapped Human souls then are they wights and if they are how come the Wall lets them pass but not Dragons?
I think Sheepstealer right now is probably hanging north of the wall somewhere having flown around the wall over the ocean with Nettle Nan. Possibly waiting by that sink hole that is the back entrance? Possibly just keeping safe to wait for the next time he is needed as a ride. Her connection could have been broken while she was at winterfell but IDK, depends on where Sheepstealer was kept.
In terms of the swords, if they do have souls in them and are thus similar to wights then it might be the same way wights were able to pass the wall when carried over the barrier by the nights watch. Perhaps being brought over by the living is a loophole that could get the swords over the barrier if they are in fact full of people.
@michaeltalksaboutstuff I have to ask this question because no one addresses it. Why are all the Others male, with the exception of Night's Queen, and the Children of the Forest all female?
Could Blood Raven have commanded the tree to unleash it's ice and snow?
The song of ice and fire will be played on a horn. 🎉
Algormancy!
Acok Jon III "Thousands of years ago,[4] Joramun, a King-Beyond-the-Wall, supposedly blew the horn and woke giants from the earth." I think you are on to something I always thought the giants from the earth were earthquakes but it being these trees makes more sense.
Nice video. Please GRMM release WoW already!!!
Why include the show stuff at all as if its actual canon?
giving aot tbh
Dude love your vids but u gotta let the wall being connected to everything go
Nice one🎉
O shit-something else you bring up regarding Coldhands. HERE is what Coldhands really tells us, to date; He was a brother of the NW, yet he cannot pass thru the Black Gate. The Others cannot pass, either. BUT Jeor brings back wights that CAN pass/rezz successfully. Why can those whytes come thru, but not Coldhands as a member of the NW and clearly NOT a whyte or an agent of The Others? WtF is going on there? We are def supposed to notice that Coldhands really should be able to pass-it is very troubling that he can't. IF Jon rezzes on the north side of that wall, he CANNOT pass back through until that Wall comes down. It's going to be BADBADBAD if Jon's body is taken north of that wall. There is a ward at the Tree Bran is under. THAT same shit is the ward keeping Coldhands from passing thru the frikin wall. There are still {barely} living peeps strapped to the roots where Bran is-I love that you see how much sense that makes to connect it to wtf is preventing Coldhands at the wall...but WHY can't the whytes pass ito where Bran is when they CAN pass thru the Wall? SOMETHING is different between those two places. Or something has changed-those whytes should not have been able to rezz. UNLESS it is by invite ONLY. By The Lord Commander. THAT is the ONLY major difference in text, to date. Is it me, or does it look like the Others are trying to find a way to pass through the Wall WITHOUT bringing it down OR are they trying to find a way to force a Lord Commander to INVITE them through? Right? Am I missing something? Sidenote-I didn't know that about Bob Weir...but it makes me smile because his name was the first thing I thought of when my first read through lol. I LOVE the Dead-I used to see them live regularly up to their last show. So that was a crazy fact to me. Thanks! It also explains the extremely GD artwork look to some of those sigils...whoa.
I do think there is something weird up with the fact that those wights came through the wall, but the way you phrase it as invited by the lord commander does really make sense of it to me. That is a good way to put it.
I had assumed the only real way it was possible was because they were carried across the barrier but that itself seemed a little weak, but the command of the man in charge of the wall bringing them through having something to do with it on a magical level kinda really does make sense.
Like inviting a vampire into your home, maybe the dead can pass the wall if whoever is in charge of the order sworn to guard the magic wall lets them.
Also I think Jon will be trapped on one side of the wall with the ghost soul in him making him a magical bonded entity like a dragon or Orell's eagle. He might end up resurrected south of the wall and not able to ever go north of it until the old ways magic is broken and the rebirth has happened. Which even though they didn't explain it in the show there was the ending scene where Jon goes off north of the wall and it was played all dramatic and important... If the books reveal he was stopped by its magic then in the context of it meaning the old ways and the magic that marked the end of the world is gone it would be a much more dramatic end for the undead Jon to leave north of the wall in the end... But who knows if that end was from GRRM... But if it was then Jon going north of the wall like that would have hit a lot harder with this idea in mind.
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tjj
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Theory is completely DESTROYED by one line in the book. When Mormont asks Tyrion to talk to his sister’s death the king about sending more men to the wall.
Mormont tells him all former lord commanders had enough builders that they worked to leave the wall taller than they found it.