Mike Rinder is an Atheist as far as I know, and yet he's one of the modern world's great examples of a person with a VERY flawed history who takes full responsibility and truly, whole-heartedly repents in the name of utter goodness. What a guy.
I was raised in a Mormon polygamous cult. Got out in my early 20s. I almost got into Scientology (dodged that bullet!) However, I unknowingly was still sucked into a MLM cult for over 15 yrs. Cults are extremely damaging and it takes a long time to recover from.
It was my watching Leah Remini’s expose on Scientology that started waking me up to just what I was dealing with in Mormonism. Mike Rinder, you and Leah and all of the others on those episodes, are hero’s! Keep up the good work! My leaving Mormonism was especially gut-wrenching and painful. It didn’t happen overnight.....it was a process.....a process that I still find myself doing much research in the scriptures and historical documents about. It gets stressful and exhausting, so I’ve thrown my hands up and have taken a break from it for now. Much thanks to you and Leah, and the others, even though it’s been painful, it’s been WORTH IT!
Mike, I have never been in Scientology and I love your podcast with Leah. I never miss it! And, John, you are right, I am a former Jehovah's Witness and I love Mormon stories too. A cult, is a cult, is a cult and the stories always resonates with me.
I've never been able to grasp the concept of how the LDS Church is in anyway the same as Scientology. One is an actual religion and church. The other is a clear cult.
@@noneayourbusiness5149 : Deliberate refusal by some to see the reality before them despite how clear that reality and telltale signs are surely raises eyebrows among many.
@@Lunatic4Bizcas That's how cults like Scientology work. They never tell you the truth. And they never tell you the negative stuff. At least not until they get enough dirt on you to ruin you personally and financially if you ever try to leave. And yet none of that ever happens in the LDS Church. So, my confusion stands.
@@noneayourbusiness5149 so your saying the LDS church has never lied to its members? They have lied about so much, the way that Joseph ‘translated’ the plates. About his polygamy and polyandry, about him marrying literal children, those are just a few….but yeah the LDS church is “totally honest” 🙄
@@MegaasAlexandros more likely it's due to the fact that he's no longer in. The old Mike was an anxiety ridden, terrified, under fed human who was shuttled from digging out septic pits with zero protective gear, to meetings at David Miscaviage's whim. There's nothing in Scientology's lower study course that you can't get for free on TH-cam.
@@pansprayers true mate, to be honest it was a little sarcastic. Truth is Mike was highly intelligent before his involvement with Scientology, a example of this was being offered a law scholarship to Adelaide Uni - a scholarship he would turn down to pursue Scientology.
I'm so glad you were able to get Mike on the podcast, John. I've seen all seasons of his and Leah Remini's Scientology and the Aftermath on A&E, and I would recommend the docu-series to anyone who wants to learn how cults like this one, and the Mormon church operate. My heart broke over and over again listening to the stories of the former members that they interviewed of that "church". I admire Leah so much for her tough-as-nails attitude toward the organization and with bringing her story and the bad actions of Scientology to light. If anyone should be lauded for standing up and speaking the truth of this destructive group at the risk of great personal peril, it is her and Mike. They are both fine examples of how people influenced by psychological manipulation can awaken from that influence and share their experiences and awareness for good.
Mike, do an interview with Armstrong, Hanover, Lerma's son Joe, Hill, Padgett, Wollershiem, Erich, Dr. Wood's surviving family members, Minton's widow, Ron Miscavige Jr, and others. Open the flood gates!
I've recently taken an interest in Scientology, learning about how things really were bts, so I have been watching quite a few peoples stories, which are absolutely devastating to hear, so I really learned a lot from this podcast. Thank you.
Most excellent interview. John Dehlin asks wonderfully pertinent questions. I am an ex-mormon and my older brother is an ex-scientologist, so this episode speaks loudly to our hearts and minds. Yeah...we both had to admit we joined cults when we were young and stupid!
What an amazing talk. Of course Mike is known all over the world, as he definitely sat at the *big* table for years and was certainly in the know about everything,. He had the courage to come clean and expose all the hypocrisy, abuse and suffering many underwent as well as he himself. I'm SO glad he's doing great and i gotta say he looks amazing.. Friendly greets from Belgium Mike. ✌
RIP, Mike Rinder. You leave a tremendous legacy. My condolences to his wife and kids, and his friends.
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I loved this episódio! As an outsider many times I was confused between Scientology and the Mormons (I am from Brazil). So this video was very enlightening for me! Thank you!
Admire & greatly respect what Mike & Leah are doing in their series. Don't be discouraged, even on bad days... y'all are doing a phenomenal job exposing Scientology!
I was born and raised a Mormon, 4th generation, I walked away 41 years ago, beaten and battered. Although I greatly appreciate these podcasts, I think that men will never understand what women/girls go through in the Mormon church, not all women, probably not most women, but God help you if you start to have questions. I was threatened with excommunication so many times, I finally excommunicated myself and walked away.
Two of my favorite podcasters with a "cross over" episode !!! You packed a LOT into a short time. Loved every minute of it. Just a reminder all of the "Scientology and the Aftermath" episodes are on NETFLIX (I don't think that was mentioned). Thank you for enlightening me. I learn SO MUCH from these dialogues.
I think Mormons give much more of their money to charities than Scientologists do. Whereas Mormons give more to charity, they only demand 10% of members' income. Scientology give nothing to charity and demand MUCH MORE than 10% from most members. If you're a member of the Sea org. Scientology demands ALL of your income. Some members go very far into debt to afford Scientology! (I've never been either.)
@@purselmer5931 They might give more dollar for dollar but compared to what they take it its only a fraction... see whistleblower from a couple of years ago who handled the Ensign Peak investment fund. Its on TH-cam
I totally agree. Tithing was kind of the hinge point for my husband and I. When we were still in, we decided it was more important to give to those in need rather than the Corp. Once we made that choice, things just started spiraling.
Very good conversation. Wow. I love anything that Mike Rinder does, I’ve been researching Scientology for years. I’m from Idaho, a hot bed for Mormons. So I’m also interested in hearing about that side of things.
I had no idea abuses were also occurring in the Mormon church. Thank you so much for this podcast and everything you all are doing to help others. Much respect
I just discovered your channel last week and have been devouring episodes. I absolutely love your long, indepth, multi episode interviews. You are an excellent interviewer and a great listener. As I watched episodes, I couldn't help but notice how much Mormonism and Scientology have in common! It's uncanny. I watch numerous Scientology TH-cam channels and Leah and Mike's Fair Game. I was going to tell tou you should contact them to discuss the two religions and.... Here's Mike! 👍 Keep up the great work. Great, great channel.
One top defector in the Jehovah Wittnesses was Raymond Franz. He was a member of the Governing Body, he left it and wrote a book called Crisis of Conscience. Lloyd Evans, aka John Cedars, must know a lot about it and what took Ray Franz to let go of his privileges and comfort in order not to sacrifice his integrity.
@Mike Rinder...just know that the things you did while under Scientology control were NOT your free will and the work you are doing now more than redeems your character! KEEP IT UP!!
Redeeming his character would best be served by involving the FBI. Include his pal Rathbun. Do a whole podcast series on the CIA/Scientology connection. THAT would be cathartic.
@@roberthorsburgh2996 Mike Rinder has truthfully cooperated with the FBI. On a recent podcast Mike Rinder spoke about the possibility of penalties he could have faced. He fully understood the consequences that could have transpired by telling them the truth. As far as Marty Rathbun,,, well that's a different story. Google is our friend.
OMG....I would love a Scientology's Episode on Mormonism. My husband will watch hours of Leah and Mike....but not on problems with Mormonism even though he has not been to chuch in almost 30 years.
What is sad about Mormonism, is that is has these ‘good things’ - & some very lovely, kind people. If those sweet people are believers in the LDS faith, & get very hurt if you say anything against it, it is hard to say anything negative about it. You feel like you are backstabbing your family....
I love finding these pods or videos with crossovers! I would also love for you both to know that secularists and agnostics very much support you and your work as well! I've been fascinated with learning more and more about the truth of these two religions and others even before "the aftermath" or big love. I love to see the support across these different communities and I think it's such a powerful idea to try to unite against abuses of all religious organizations! The non-reglious or never-ins are also here to help however possible!
Finally got around to listening to this video presentation that I was so looking forward to. John you hit this one out of the ball park. Thank you and Mike so much for mentioning the Jehovah's Witnesses bringing awareness to the pain and suffering that all cults promote as a common denominator if one tries to leave. I would love to see a plan as you mentioned, that would help unite the efforts of ex members of multiple cults being given voice at a governmental level through legislation to stop the internal abuses. I believe that the "freedom of religion" as a constitutional right should not be hijacked in such a way that a cult religion is allowed abusive control in navigating the entire narrative of how one should live their own life. Thank you again.
Beautiful. This is magical ❤🔆💜 I hope as living beings that we all can come together in a unified front for freedom of expression !!! Oppression and abuse has become predominant in the world as we carry the wounds of our universe. More than religion, this discussion has the power to awaken ANY ONE currently experiencing pain through the control of another through the force of submission.. we shall rise together in the altogether. Stand up and reach out for others in every capacity. We are not alone in this 'spiritual' war for freedom. ☆♡☆
THANKS..JOHN & MIKE..we exist within this special time of "TRUTH RISING" which is a biblical promise..praise God..for all your genuine contributions! What a time to be alive!! LOVES!
Studying Scientology and JW belief systems are what started my journey out of Mormonism. I realized that Mormonism was not in fact very much different than the mythologies of not Scientology and Jehovah’s Witnesses.
I remember that Time Magazine article from 1993, “The Church of Greed and Power”. I didn’t know about Scientology before that article. And that article really exposed Scientology’s Fair Game and how threatening and awful they were to anyone who said anything against Scientology.
Sounds like you had a bit of a disconnect between your actions and the repentance process? But I guess blaming the religion (even baselessly) is easier than taking responsibility.
@@noneayourbusiness5149 Hahaha. Thanks for your response. I can cross the "accuse the dissident of irresponsibility" off my checklist. Oooo. And the "you left to sin" assumption, too. That's a two-for-one! Both incorrect, but still funny to hear other's assumptions about me
@@callyalater I made no accusations that you didn't infer. You yourself stated that you regretted things you said while a member of the LDS Church. And you heavily implied that the cause of those apparently wrongful actions was your faith - a Faith which calls upon its members to repent and correct wrongful behavior. So, what other possible conclusion could I come to, based on your statement? Also I never once made a claim that you left to sin. So, 0 for 0?
@@callyalater I'd gladly continue to discuss this if you are actually interested in refuting any of the statements I've made? Or if you wanted to clarify your original statement to point out where my deduction was incorrect?
I’m adding this video to a playlist I have for learning because the “what is the impact” statement is something I need an external reminder to keep pushing in my own causes.
I am glad that Leah And Mike did the aftermath series and I hope they do another season or do another show or something. I am glad they r doing the fair game podcasts.
Just discovering this interview, Sept. 22. Thank you so much for this great interview. As it turns out, Mike Rinder is finally releasing a book about his Scientology experiences called "A Billion Years" I think it will be available later this month. Needless to say, Scientology is going berserk over it and will no doubt up their attacks on Mike. He has gone through so much in order to get some truth out there. Great respect for this man. On the Mormon side of this, since this is my first interview from your channel I've seen , forgive me if I have misunderstood some points. I am hoping you can clarify. 1) There are many very high level Mormon church elders who have left and spoken out over the years. I got the impression you were saying there weren't ? Again, I may well have misunderstood. 2) When talking about the abuses of Scientology, the horrible history of Mormon sexual and child abuse that the Mormon church has tried to hide for decades was never mentioned. While the abuse of Scientology is unquestionably extreme, this abuse of the LDS Church needs to be clearly openly expressed as well. Why it was not, here, surprised me. 3) Often when people leave a cult, they end up in another one. That is because there is a whole dynamic of how people get sucked in. It doesn't matter what the name is, what the religion, or what the product they are selling, a destructive cult is very clear through their behaviors and common approach. So until those dynamics are recognized and dealt with, one is still vulnerable. I hope you have done an interview with Steven Hassen who has written many books and helped many folks identify and break free. 4) You can't "fix or clean up" a cult. If you look honestly, it is the very root ....the very foundation that is the problem. A house on shaky ground will ALWAYS be shaky. Looking at the very root and foundation of Mormonism is where the seed was planted. As long as one continues to hold onto that dark seed, confusion will remain. Instead of holding on to an "organization" , "leader" or "doctrine" one needs to honestly seek TRUTH. 5) Any.... ANY group / organization that tells you it is OK to lie has exposed themselves for what they are. It is a number ONE way that cults control people......NUMBER ONE. Any group that has "secrets"....run. Nowhere in the Bible did Jesus teach that lying justified a means. "Thou shalt not lie"....period.. But Joseph Smith tried to re-write the Bible and created a lot of very false doctrine. I would strongly encourage folks to read the actual BIBLE and compare. And look deeply at the life of Joseph Smith as history has documented and decide if you really consider him the VOICE OF GOD???? He was a fallible man who did some pretty shady things !!! 6) Throughout history there have been false prophets. Look at Jehovah Witnesses as just one more example. (among MANY) JW believers stand by their doctrine as strongly as Mormons do. And today there are new prophets on every street corner. But Biblical truth has not and never will change. Men are fallible. If you are controlled by men, you are in trouble. It is God alone that is secure. 7) Sorry to ramble on here. I suppose that one thing that came across to me in this interview is that it seems you, John, are still "on the fence" about your Mormon beliefs. Again, that was an impression and perhaps I misunderstood. But I will only say that I hope with all my heart that you will find truth within yourself.....not dependent upon anyone else....but in your own heart that will bring you absolute peace and security. You are indeed a loved child of God.
Wow! ❤️ Thank you! I remember digging more into your shows when I was unraveling the Mormon church’s deception. So incredibly helpful. Best wishes to you both - Mike and John
Watching "Going Clear" in January 2018 triggered my belief crises. Scientology and Mormonisn operate very similarly. JS and LRH used the same human vulnerabilities to found their belief systems and exploit followers.
Mike- I'm wanting a bobblehead! (Loving the Emmy next to your bobblehead in the background!) ❣ I'm going to have to beg Marc Headley to make a Leah bobblehead that swears! 🤣🤣
I left the LDS church at 17 when I was falsely accused and confronted by a bishop in front of my mother. Never went back. I've watched and listened to every episode and podcast that Mike has done with Leah and so much stuff resonated with me. I have hundreds of cousins in my mother's Mormon family and aside from a couple cousins, I've been isolated from them. This is very valuable to me.
The point you make at the end is so true regarding one cult showing another as a cult; I quit Mormonism 35 years ago at 14 because I thought it was BS; I realized it’s a cult from watching The Aftermath about Scientology ❤ All I knew before is I wanted Mormons no where near me lol 😆
That little comment about coffee! I worked with an ex-mormon, he left when is brother did. Why? Because the lead pastor of their particular church was walking by his brothers house one morning, saw him drinking a cup of coffee and smoking a cigarette, and immediately asked him if he was beating his wife yet, because "that's what happens when you drink coffee and smoke." I was shocked.
Interesting interview -- Rinder is always informative and I hadn't realized thevital importance of including Mormonism as a "cult". IMO every religion (or "religion", depending) has its cultlike traits and dangers when taken to extremes. When Mike was talking about all the orgs approaching him for help, I couldn't help but think of the burgeoning/floundering QAnon movement and its aftermath (i.e. I'm HOPING these people will also awaken from their reality escapism sooner rather than later).
Obliterating people's individuality and creating a culture of pathological codependency is probably worse than physical abuse. When coming out of this kind of religion, survivors are not just facing a process of deprogramming, but also a very scary process of emerging into the world without an autonomous personality. It's hard to think of a form of abuse that is more destructive.
YES. I've been waiting for THIS interview for years! I think the most powerful force for change could very well be a coalition of ex-LDS, ex-JWs, ex-Scientologists, and ex-Muslims all working together. I would love to see you interview Sarah Haider and/or Imtiaz Shams.
RIP Mike Rinder. You did so much good after leaving Scientology. I hope the movement continues on
Mike Rinder is an Atheist as far as I know, and yet he's one of the modern world's great examples of a person with a VERY flawed history who takes full responsibility and truly, whole-heartedly repents in the name of utter goodness. What a guy.
I applaud Mike for what he had done!
He’s not an atheist
Or is he just making his living being an ex-scientologist celebrity?
He hurt his wife not a good man or father
And what he did for Scientology for a long time
So he was ok with doing that
@@texasray5237 exactly. He is not a good man. He abused his wife and horrible to his kids
Ex Jehovah's Witness here and I absolutely love Mike and Leah and have mad respect for their work!
I was raised in a Mormon polygamous cult. Got out in my early 20s. I almost got into Scientology (dodged that bullet!) However, I unknowingly was still sucked into a MLM cult for over 15 yrs. Cults are extremely damaging and it takes a long time to recover from.
Which MLM?
@@mormonstories Primerica
Lots of similarities there. Luckily the MLM scheme is also having a moment of exposure these days. Sorry to hear but glad you're out!
Gee, can’t you just make your life in your own?? One cult after another. Gross.
@@lillianbowles9902 OMG, some creepy somewhat unbalanced dude tried to recruit me into Primamerica at my local public library
Add survivors of narcissists and sociopaths, Mike. You have helped us tremendously. 🙏
Grew up and raised by 2 narcs. Much of these dynamics are present
Does anyone else love Mike's voice?
I wish he would do the Alexa voice
Life is so short. There is no time to waste with these cults. Thank you Gentlemen!
By 2030, we need a semiannual general conference with all the ex-religious leaders on the stand.
It was my watching Leah Remini’s expose on Scientology that started waking me up to just what I was dealing with in Mormonism.
Mike Rinder, you and Leah and all of the others on those episodes, are hero’s! Keep up the good work! My leaving Mormonism was especially gut-wrenching and painful. It didn’t happen overnight.....it was a process.....a process that I still find myself doing much research in the scriptures and historical documents about. It gets stressful and exhausting, so I’ve thrown my hands up and have taken a break from it for now.
Much thanks to you and Leah, and the others, even though it’s been painful, it’s been WORTH IT!
Proud of you for searching for the truth
I'm glad you got out!!
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Mike, I have never been in Scientology and I love your podcast with Leah. I never miss it!
And, John, you are right, I am a former Jehovah's Witness and I love Mormon stories too. A cult, is a cult, is a cult and the stories always resonates with me.
Epic idea.
I've never been able to grasp the concept of how the LDS Church is in anyway the same as Scientology. One is an actual religion and church. The other is a clear cult.
@@noneayourbusiness5149 : Deliberate refusal by some to see the reality before them despite how clear that reality and telltale signs are surely raises eyebrows among many.
@@Lunatic4Bizcas That's how cults like Scientology work. They never tell you the truth. And they never tell you the negative stuff. At least not until they get enough dirt on you to ruin you personally and financially if you ever try to leave.
And yet none of that ever happens in the LDS Church. So, my confusion stands.
@@noneayourbusiness5149 so your saying the LDS church has never lied to its members? They have lied about so much, the way that Joseph ‘translated’ the plates. About his polygamy and polyandry, about him marrying literal children, those are just a few….but yeah the LDS church is “totally honest” 🙄
I really enjoy listening to Mike speak....he's so knowledgeable but succinct . Great interview! X
Very easy to listen to, great communication skills - maybe due to the scientology communication courses.
@@MegaasAlexandros more likely it's due to the fact that he's no longer in. The old Mike was an anxiety ridden, terrified, under fed human who was shuttled from digging out septic pits with zero protective gear, to meetings at David Miscaviage's whim. There's nothing in Scientology's lower study course that you can't get for free on TH-cam.
@@pansprayers true mate, to be honest it was a little sarcastic. Truth is Mike was highly intelligent before his involvement with Scientology, a example of this was being offered a law scholarship to Adelaide Uni - a scholarship he would turn down to pursue Scientology.
I'm so glad you were able to get Mike on the podcast, John. I've seen all seasons of his and Leah Remini's Scientology and the Aftermath on A&E, and I would recommend the docu-series to anyone who wants to learn how cults like this one, and the Mormon church operate. My heart broke over and over again listening to the stories of the former members that they interviewed of that "church". I admire Leah so much for her tough-as-nails attitude toward the organization and with bringing her story and the bad actions of Scientology to light. If anyone should be lauded for standing up and speaking the truth of this destructive group at the risk of great personal peril, it is her and Mike. They are both fine examples of how people influenced by psychological manipulation can awaken from that influence and share their experiences and awareness for good.
This was so good. Mike, please have John on your podcast and let's all help each other make this world better. Thank you for all you do!
Mike, do an interview with Armstrong, Hanover, Lerma's son Joe, Hill, Padgett, Wollershiem, Erich, Dr. Wood's surviving family members, Minton's widow, Ron Miscavige Jr, and others. Open the flood gates!
John and Mike are genuine heroes. Just finished watching Leah and Mike on Netflix. Wow!!!
Dang. I wanted to watch this live. I love this. Mormon Stories and Leaha and Mike's series helped me awaken to the toxicity of Mormonism.
I've recently taken an interest in Scientology, learning about how things really were bts, so I have been watching quite a few peoples stories, which are absolutely devastating to hear, so I really learned a lot from this podcast. Thank you.
Most excellent interview. John Dehlin asks wonderfully pertinent questions. I am an ex-mormon and my older brother is an ex-scientologist, so this episode speaks loudly to our hearts and minds. Yeah...we both had to admit we joined cults when we were young and stupid!
Me too! When I was 16 and I didn't get out until I was 44.
What an amazing talk. Of course Mike is known all over the world, as he definitely sat at the *big* table for years and was certainly in the know about everything,. He had the courage to come clean and expose all the hypocrisy, abuse and suffering many underwent as well as he himself. I'm SO glad he's doing great and i gotta say he looks amazing.. Friendly greets from Belgium Mike. ✌
Love this! One of the best interviews with Mike. Can’t wait for the future to see all the fruits of this change.
Exactly!
RIP, Mike Rinder. You leave a tremendous legacy. My condolences to his wife and kids, and his friends.
I loved this episódio! As an outsider many times I was confused between Scientology and the Mormons (I am from Brazil). So this video was very enlightening for me! Thank you!
Admire & greatly respect what Mike & Leah are doing in their series. Don't be discouraged, even on bad days... y'all are doing a phenomenal job exposing Scientology!
Great interview. Solid questions and the host allowed the guest to share his stories.
I was born and raised a Mormon, 4th generation, I walked away 41 years ago, beaten and battered. Although I greatly appreciate these podcasts, I think that men will never understand what women/girls go through in the Mormon church, not all women, probably not most women, but God help you if you start to have questions. I was threatened with excommunication so many times, I finally excommunicated myself and walked away.
Yay! Love mike...great guest! He and Leah opened my eyes to an entire world I didnt know existed.
Two of my favorite podcasters with a "cross over" episode !!! You packed a LOT into a short time. Loved every minute of it. Just a reminder all of the "Scientology and the Aftermath" episodes are on NETFLIX (I don't think that was mentioned). Thank you for enlightening me. I learn SO MUCH from these dialogues.
Unfortunately not everywhere; at least not in The Netherlands
Support Mike, glad to see him on your show. Fighting the good fight.
Very good interview John. Please have Mike back. Ask him to please bring Leah next time. :)
THE BEST INTERVIEW! ❤
Good luck in moving forward and hopefully if you can all come together and somehow force real change with the government.
Scientology and The Mormons could feed so many people. Help with housing, Mental illness. Why do they hold on to so much money?
I think Mormons give much more of their money to charities than Scientologists do. Whereas Mormons give more to charity, they only demand 10% of members' income. Scientology give nothing to charity and demand MUCH MORE than 10% from most members. If you're a member of the Sea org. Scientology demands ALL of your income. Some members go very far into debt to afford Scientology! (I've never been either.)
@@purselmer5931 They might give more dollar for dollar but compared to what they take it its only a fraction... see whistleblower from a couple of years ago who handled the Ensign Peak investment fund. Its on TH-cam
@@christopher6082 Thanks, I will! Appreciate it.
I totally agree. Tithing was kind of the hinge point for my husband and I. When we were still in, we decided it was more important to give to those in need rather than the Corp.
Once we made that choice, things just started spiraling.
@@christopher6082 Thanks so much for that information. I did look it up and my eyes are open. So sorry this happened.
👏🏻another home run interview! Please continue to broaden our horizons - both of you. We stand behind you!
Rest in Peace Mike
Very good conversation. Wow. I love anything that Mike Rinder does, I’ve been researching Scientology for years. I’m from Idaho, a hot bed for Mormons. So I’m also interested in hearing about that side of things.
Here for Mike. Former LDS not tainted or broken by the church. You live and learn.
this was a fantastic episode. i’m so impressed by the guests on this podcast, especially recently
I had no idea abuses were also occurring in the Mormon church. Thank you so much for this podcast and everything you all are doing to help others. Much respect
Every religious cult is abusive, the only difference is in the degree to which they abuse.
Loved this! Thank you, Mike and John for your strength and integrity. You are both loved and admired. x
John allows mike to talk. Truly enjoyed the entire conversation.
I just discovered your channel last week and have been devouring episodes. I absolutely love your long, indepth, multi episode interviews. You are an excellent interviewer and a great listener.
As I watched episodes, I couldn't help but notice how much Mormonism and Scientology have in common! It's uncanny. I watch numerous Scientology TH-cam channels and Leah and Mike's Fair Game. I was going to tell tou you should contact them to discuss the two religions and.... Here's Mike! 👍
Keep up the great work. Great, great channel.
Bravo. Thank you for making time for this Mike. You're changing and saving lives. Love you friend.
So grateful for the work you all do. Thank you.
Great video, i hope you join forces against the rich army of legal people that defend the abuse of cults. Keep fighting the good fight
One top defector in the Jehovah Wittnesses was Raymond Franz. He was a member of the Governing Body, he left it and wrote a book called Crisis of Conscience. Lloyd Evans, aka John Cedars, must know a lot about it and what took Ray Franz to let go of his privileges and comfort in order not to sacrifice his integrity.
Crisis of Conscience is a book every ex JW should def read! It is so good.
Thanks for sharing will def check it out!
Yep, I have tried many times to give it to JW visitors.!
@Mike Rinder...just know that the things you did while under Scientology control were NOT your free will and the work you are doing now more than redeems your character! KEEP IT UP!!
Redeeming his character would best be served by involving the FBI. Include his pal Rathbun. Do a whole podcast series on the CIA/Scientology connection. THAT would be cathartic.
@@roberthorsburgh2996 Mike Rinder has truthfully cooperated with the FBI. On a recent podcast Mike Rinder spoke about the possibility of penalties he could have faced. He fully understood the consequences that could have transpired by telling them the truth.
As far as Marty Rathbun,,, well that's a different story. Google is our friend.
Exactly! It’s not how we start the race.....but how we finish it, that counts.
We'll see how the race ends for Cuomo too. Another self -touted award winner. (barf)
Was it free will when he beat his wife .Some sins do not wash off so easy .This thing may be in the shape of a man but he is far from it.
Keep doing amazing work and helping inform ppl of the truth, both of you!!
Such an EXCELLENT interview!! Can’t wait to hear your interview John on Mike’s podcast! Thank you so much for all your hard work! God bless
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The internet is Miscavige's worst nightmare.
I love Mike Render! Fighting the good fight.
OMG....I would love a Scientology's Episode on Mormonism. My husband will watch hours of Leah and Mike....but not on problems with Mormonism even though he has not been to chuch in almost 30 years.
What is sad about Mormonism, is that is has these ‘good things’ - & some very lovely, kind people. If those sweet people are believers in the LDS faith, & get very hurt if you say anything against it, it is hard to say anything negative about it. You feel like you are backstabbing your family....
Yay! Been looking forward to this ❤️❤️ Loved Leah’s book! It started me on my own mild Christian faith transition.
Abolish religious tax exemption
So cool Mike Render joined! I served my mission in Australia (Adelaide) so I'm always happy to hear from Aussies
Not only is Mike an Aussie but also from Adelaide LOL
Rinder is so interesting. Good podcast.
great interview! I love Mike and his wisdom and experiences
Such a great interview! I hope John Dehlin / Mormon Stories and Mike Rinder and Leah Remini have the opportunity to join forces. #epic
Indeed.
I don't know what it is about Mr. Rinder, but I really like him
I love finding these pods or videos with crossovers! I would also love for you both to know that secularists and agnostics very much support you and your work as well! I've been fascinated with learning more and more about the truth of these two religions and others even before "the aftermath" or big love. I love to see the support across these different communities and I think it's such a powerful idea to try to unite against abuses of all religious organizations! The non-reglious or never-ins are also here to help however possible!
Finally got around to listening to this video presentation that I was so looking forward to. John you hit this one out of the ball park. Thank you and Mike so much for mentioning the Jehovah's Witnesses bringing awareness to the pain and suffering that all cults promote as a common denominator if one tries to leave. I would love to see a plan as you mentioned, that would help unite the efforts of ex members of multiple cults being given voice at a governmental level through legislation to stop the internal abuses. I believe that the "freedom of religion" as a constitutional right should not be hijacked in such a way that a cult religion is allowed abusive control in navigating the entire narrative of how one should live their own life. Thank you again.
I love Mike Rinder 😍
Thanks gentlemen. Very informative.
43 years and I’m done with my favorite CULT....
#NOTHANKS!!!!!!!
Beautiful.
This is magical ❤🔆💜
I hope as living beings that we all can come together in a unified front for freedom of expression !!!
Oppression and abuse has become predominant in the world as we carry the wounds of our universe.
More than religion, this discussion has the power to awaken ANY ONE currently experiencing pain through the control of another through the force of submission.. we shall rise together in the altogether.
Stand up and reach out for others in every capacity.
We are not alone in this 'spiritual' war for freedom. ☆♡☆
THANKS..JOHN & MIKE..we exist within this special time of "TRUTH RISING" which is a biblical promise..praise God..for all your genuine contributions! What a time to be alive!! LOVES!
Thank you Mike for the much appreciated moral support. : )
Really good interview. John is a great host and this is an amazing channel. Big kudos to you guys, you are fighting the good fight.
Studying Scientology and JW belief systems are what started my journey out of Mormonism. I realized that Mormonism was not in fact very much different than the mythologies of not Scientology and Jehovah’s Witnesses.
I remember that Time Magazine article from 1993, “The Church of Greed and Power”. I didn’t know about Scientology before that article. And that article really exposed Scientology’s Fair Game and how threatening and awful they were to anyone who said anything against Scientology.
I like to say, "I'm sorry for what I did and said while under the influence of Mormonism." Because Mormonism is basically a drug (of sorts)....
Sounds like you had a bit of a disconnect between your actions and the repentance process? But I guess blaming the religion (even baselessly) is easier than taking responsibility.
@@noneayourbusiness5149 Hahaha. Thanks for your response. I can cross the "accuse the dissident of irresponsibility" off my checklist. Oooo. And the "you left to sin" assumption, too. That's a two-for-one! Both incorrect, but still funny to hear other's assumptions about me
@@callyalater I made no accusations that you didn't infer. You yourself stated that you regretted things you said while a member of the LDS Church. And you heavily implied that the cause of those apparently wrongful actions was your faith - a Faith which calls upon its members to repent and correct wrongful behavior.
So, what other possible conclusion could I come to, based on your statement?
Also I never once made a claim that you left to sin. So, 0 for 0?
@@noneayourbusiness5149 😂 Keep it coming! This is great.
@@callyalater I'd gladly continue to discuss this if you are actually interested in refuting any of the statements I've made? Or if you wanted to clarify your original statement to point out where my deduction was incorrect?
I’m adding this video to a playlist I have for learning because the “what is the impact” statement is something I need an external reminder to keep pushing in my own causes.
Mike is always inspiring.
I am glad that Leah And Mike did the aftermath series and I hope they do another season or do another show or something. I am glad they r doing the fair game podcasts.
Scientology is super interesting.cant wait to hear this
Just discovering this interview, Sept. 22. Thank you so much for this great interview.
As it turns out, Mike Rinder is finally releasing a book about his Scientology experiences
called "A Billion Years" I think it will be available later this month.
Needless to say, Scientology is going berserk over it and will no doubt up their attacks on
Mike. He has gone through so much in order to get some truth out there. Great respect for
this man.
On the Mormon side of this, since this is my first interview from your channel I've seen , forgive me
if I have misunderstood some points. I am hoping you can clarify.
1) There are many very high level Mormon church elders who have left and spoken out over the years.
I got the impression you were saying there weren't ? Again, I may well have misunderstood.
2) When talking about the abuses of Scientology, the horrible history of Mormon sexual and child
abuse that the Mormon church has tried to hide for decades was never mentioned. While the
abuse of Scientology is unquestionably extreme, this abuse of the LDS Church needs to be
clearly openly expressed as well. Why it was not, here, surprised me.
3) Often when people leave a cult, they end up in another one. That is because there is a whole
dynamic of how people get sucked in. It doesn't matter what the name is, what the religion,
or what the product they are selling, a destructive cult is very clear through their behaviors
and common approach. So until those dynamics are recognized and dealt with, one is still
vulnerable. I hope you have done an interview with Steven Hassen who has
written many books and helped many folks identify and break free.
4) You can't "fix or clean up" a cult. If you look honestly, it is the very root ....the very foundation
that is the problem. A house on shaky ground will ALWAYS be shaky. Looking at the very root and foundation of Mormonism is where the seed was planted. As long as one continues to hold onto that dark seed, confusion will remain.
Instead of holding on to an "organization" , "leader" or "doctrine" one needs to honestly seek
TRUTH.
5) Any.... ANY group / organization that tells you it is OK to lie has exposed themselves for what they
are. It is a number ONE way that cults control people......NUMBER ONE. Any group that has "secrets"....run. Nowhere in the Bible did Jesus teach that lying justified a means. "Thou shalt not lie"....period.. But Joseph Smith tried to re-write the Bible and created a
lot of very false doctrine. I would strongly encourage folks to read the actual BIBLE and
compare. And look deeply at the life of Joseph Smith as history has documented and decide
if you really consider him the VOICE OF GOD???? He was a fallible man who did some pretty
shady things !!!
6) Throughout history there have been false prophets. Look at Jehovah Witnesses as just one
more example. (among MANY) JW believers stand by their doctrine as strongly as Mormons do. And today there are new prophets on every street corner. But Biblical truth has not and never will change. Men are fallible. If you are controlled by men, you are in trouble. It is God alone that is secure.
7) Sorry to ramble on here. I suppose that one thing that came across to me in this interview is
that it seems you, John, are still "on the fence" about your Mormon beliefs. Again, that was an
impression and perhaps I misunderstood. But I will only say that I hope with all my heart that
you will find truth within yourself.....not dependent upon anyone else....but in your own heart
that will bring you absolute peace and security. You are indeed a loved child of God.
Great response. You don’t come across as preachy or offensive with your opinion of the Bible. Jesus is real & alive!
Wow... Thank you. So powerful, I am speechless...
excellent interview
I love you and respect you so much, Mike!!! ❤️
Please do more stuff together, lads. Collaboration between the silos is so, so important
Wow! ❤️ Thank you! I remember digging more into your shows when I was unraveling the Mormon church’s deception. So incredibly helpful. Best wishes to you both - Mike and John
Mike, you are a hero !
Watching "Going Clear" in January 2018 triggered my belief crises. Scientology and Mormonisn operate very similarly. JS and LRH used the same human vulnerabilities to found their belief systems and exploit followers.
Do know where I could watch going clear?
@@heathercondie4176 here on TH-cam
My two favorite apostates coming together and chatting. Nice!
Mad respect for Mike
Love Mike soooo much ❤
Mike- I'm wanting a bobblehead! (Loving the Emmy next to your bobblehead in the background!) ❣ I'm going to have to beg Marc Headley to make a Leah bobblehead that swears! 🤣🤣
I have a Mike Rinder bobble head. It's cool! I'm waiting for a Leah Remini cussin' bobble head too. Lol
I left the LDS church at 17 when I was falsely accused and confronted by a bishop in front of my mother. Never went back. I've watched and listened to every episode and podcast that Mike has done with Leah and so much stuff resonated with me. I have hundreds of cousins in my mother's Mormon family and aside from a couple cousins, I've been isolated from them. This is very valuable to me.
Im sorry your mom didn't support you. Glad you had the autonomy to leave as a 17yr old. What were you falsely accused of?
So excited for this, I listen to both of you regularly.
Wonderful work
Insightful
The point you make at the end is so true regarding one cult showing another as a cult; I quit Mormonism 35 years ago at 14 because I thought it was BS; I realized it’s a cult from watching The Aftermath about Scientology ❤ All I knew before is I wanted Mormons no where near me lol 😆
Ex independent fundamental Baptist here. All of it is about control
That little comment about coffee! I worked with an ex-mormon, he left when is brother did. Why? Because the lead pastor of their particular church was walking by his brothers house one morning, saw him drinking a cup of coffee and smoking a cigarette, and immediately asked him if he was beating his wife yet, because "that's what happens when you drink coffee and smoke." I was shocked.
The means justify the end/goal was the same mantra used by Queen Isabella of Spain regarding the Spanish Inquisition.
Oh my gosh! John, as your listener, I am a huge fan of Mike Rinder. This is so fabulous! yayayayyaayaaaaa
RIP Mike Rinder 💔
Awesome interview guys! Thank you
As always Dr. Dehlin the interview was very informative and helpful.
Keep up the good work!
Interesting interview -- Rinder is always informative and I hadn't realized thevital importance of including Mormonism as a "cult". IMO every religion (or "religion", depending) has its cultlike traits and dangers when taken to extremes. When Mike was talking about all the orgs approaching him for help, I couldn't help but think of the burgeoning/floundering QAnon movement and its aftermath (i.e. I'm HOPING these people will also awaken from their reality escapism sooner rather than later).
Great discussion
Obliterating people's individuality and creating a culture of pathological codependency is probably worse than physical abuse. When coming out of this kind of religion, survivors are not just facing a process of deprogramming, but also a very scary process of emerging into the world without an autonomous personality. It's hard to think of a form of abuse that is more destructive.
YES. I've been waiting for THIS interview for years! I think the most powerful force for change could very well be a coalition of ex-LDS, ex-JWs, ex-Scientologists, and ex-Muslims all working together. I would love to see you interview Sarah Haider and/or Imtiaz Shams.
I like Mike Rinder