I really do believe that the ending where kratos is seen crying at that mural isnt due to him finally being worshipped as a god, its that people no longer see him as a monster, but as someone worth revering as a hero and good person. Kratos' whole goal in these games (outside of keeping his only family safe and just surviving) was to move past his old self. To get rid of the anger and come to terms with the guilt and trauma that he has wrought on others, and himself. He sees himself as a monster and despite trying to so desperately to move past it, everyone he meets who've heard of him only see him as such. Look at freyja and mimir, they had heard of the ghost of sparta, destroyer of civilizations, killer of gods, monster of mankind. But they hadn't heard of kratos, the man betrayed by the very gods he looked to for guidance, the man who had to give up a peaceful afterlife with his daughter, the man who had killed his own family either because he was tricked or because he had no choice. So him seeing that statue, surrounded by those who see a Hero? He breaks down, knowing that all his effort isnt in vain. He's not a monster anymore. He's a man, and a good one at that.
wich is entirely not on character for him Kratos isn't the praiseseeking type so if Kratos was on character and is getting joy it definitely wouldn't be for this reason you mentioned of others seeing him a "worthy" its way more more likely to be joy in finding that Faye left him a purpose since after Atreus is gone he wouldn't have anything to love for
So far you are the only person who actually seems to know a thing about Kratos in this comment section and judging from the likes ratio on certain factually incorrect claims people are making im pretty convinced that 90% of people watching this either didn't played them or don't remember much about the older GoW games
Also on the last Spartan in GoW2 he also said that the people of Sparta cried for help and plead for their god to come and save them was Zeus was killing them making it clear that they viewed him like a god unlike what the most liked comments are saying im honestly pissed at how in this community convenient ignorance is what usually gets the most praise
@@Force-Multiplier Bro you speak Facts The people of Sparta really loved Kratos. and the community says Kratos wasn't a deep character. which baffles me. wait till about ten years after this game when the next are released then fans begin to say that Kratos here was still a childish. compared to his future self don't be surprised
@@Force-Multiplier on top of that...in god of war ghost of sparta, the Last Spartan is seen kneeling to give him his spear and shield and isnt there a statue of Kratos in that game?
I don't think Kratos was crying because people were worshipping him. I'm pretty sure it's because of what the worship itself showed about how people saw him; as a protector and a peacekeeper, someone who is beloved by the people as a good person. And he actually breaks down crying because he is overwhelmed at realizing that he's finally found redemption after all this time.
@@notanyone2433 Honestly, Kratos decking big J would be hilarious. And actually visualizing all the atrocities of the old testament from Kratos' perspective would be really interesting.
@@Suthek The guys who made God of War said they wouldn't fight at all, but Jesus would instead save him. I think that it would also result in the ashes of his wife and daughter coming off to show that he truly is forgiven.
I immediately understood exactly what type of character Odin was in that first scene. He is the embodiment of the soul of the actual mythical Loki. The manipulator, the liar, the con.
in the sagas odin is mentioned to be almost as good a deciever and manipulator as loki, almost as strong as Thor and almost as Wise as Mimir. He is the ideal every nordic king and chief aspired to be. Fierce warrior, wise and cunning. A great warrior might be stronger than the king but that doesnt mean they would be better ruler, neither will smart but weak priest lead the tribe to success. Odin might not be the best at 1 thing but he is almost the best at everything and thats why he is the king of the gods
In some Norse mythological tellings, it is clear that Odin and Loki are very alike to one another, and many comparisons are drawn between them. The main two differences between them, I think, is that Loki had large difficulties controlling himself, which he couldn't in the end and ultimately led to Ragnorok and his own demise, and the other being Loki being a little bit more coward than Odin.
You read my mind, Bacon Man. What I really love about Odin is that they don’t just tell us he’s smart, they show us he’s smart. Like baiting Atreus into finding “Tyr” so he could secretly keep a close eye on them. Or how he found a loop-hole to summon the Einherjar early, and used Nidhogg to secure Freya’s binding spell.
It’s actually an underrated feat. Einerjar were supposed to pop up ONLY at ragnarok But the guy managed to bring them early, getting an army of immortal
@@WheatDos The Valkyries are the ones who determine which souls stay in Hel and which ones go to Valhalla. Thus, like I said, Odin appointed a new Valkyrie Queen. Which meant he could summon the souls of the warriors from Valhalla early.
@@WheatDos Also, the lindworm Nidhogg was the natural protector of the World Tree. That’s why Odin made Freya’s curse using roots from the tree because he knew Nidhogg would protect them at all costs.
@@Omar8181Odin went into the fight with Kratos like it was a mild inconvenience to him That “Looks like I have to do everything around here” is so casual and annoyed. I love the way Odin has the power do take on Kratos and his son but would still rather have someone else do it
@@TheStraightestWhitest honestly though. We saw Kratos at his peak by the end of the game and Odin was still able to deal with him and Atreus. I think it’s funny how much people act like Odin’s a complete weakling like he didn’t take an enormous beating from three very powerful, and well-equipped gods and he still gave them a run for their money
I think what odin said in particular “to be loved” was what hit most. sure kratos was briefly worshipped but you don’t really love a god of war. In fact the majority of greeks rightfully feared and loathed him for all the war and slaughter in his name. For him to learn that the nordic folk revere him as a benevolent god, I think thats what he always wanted deep down. To protect, not needlessly mutilate and slaughter like in his darker days.
I don't think Kratos wants to be revered. Kratos has always had disdain for attention. But he obviously prefers it more than being feared. So, I think it's more sense of relief for him, that he can be a builder and no longer a destroyer and that he doesn't necessarily want to feel loved like a god, but he is thankful that he is no longer hated and feared as a god. I think he just wanted his life as a god to bring light to people instead of darkness and seeing that mural tells him as much
also it was at a point where Kratos still feels no fufilment. his people could well have loved him but, he would never have felt or understood it because he could not care for himself.
Most Greeks thought of Aries as scary and all but in most stories he’s also a dumbass and made fun alot by the other gods. Also it makes sense that the city state all about war, worshipped the god of war. Kratos genuinely loves Sparta. He talks about it all the time and the only people he treats well are the Spartans and he shows genuine love for them throughout all the games, in god of war 3 one of his magics is literally spartan ghost appearing to defend him and rain arrows. Shit in the new ones he talks about spear and shield is the best combo cause of Sparta although we rarely see him use one through out the series. A big point of the new games is the Norse gods have only heard vague stories but know nothing past him at face value
@@thelionofjudah5318 To be fair, she wasn't just a god of war. She was a god of wisdom as well. That is why she is revered far more as a god of war. Also, I find your username really ironic being in a comment section like this, lol. No hate, just funny.
I think you forgot one small detail... When zues attacked sparta the last spartan warrior specifically said "they prayed to you. They pray for their god to protect them. But you never came." Or something like that so yes. The people of sparta did have faith in him even through thick or thin.
I think that still kinda just goes back to them wanting Kratos to win a battle for them. They're still really only calling on him as essentially their nuke to deploy on the battlefield. Although it can be argued that in that instances they want him there more for protection rather than conquest Kratos still ultimately didn't answer their call the one time it was made out of genuine need. That could still perfectly feed into his guilt and the validity of Odin's words because Kratos was in a far off place seeking his own personal vengeance rather than hearing the prayers for protection the one time it was asked of him.
Yeah, uh, if someone only calls for me when they want something, that isn't a friend. It's a leech at worst and a flake at best. Why should it be different for gods, especially in a culture like the Greeks who involved worship in so many aspects of life?
Odin definitely seemed like an overt villain the moment he visited Kratos' home to make him an offer (he couldn't refuse). I was married to someone with very similar traits and toxic characteristics and can spot an abuser a mile away.
I love when Odin is like "has anyone ever prayed to you, worshipped you or can you even imagine that kind of love?" literally Kratos had everything at one point but because of his old ways he lost everything. Every single little thing norse gods claim to know about Kratos is based on pure legends but they never know the actual reason or the true story behind everything that happened in Greece. I am 100% if Odin knew the actual truth about Kratos he could've manipulated him.
Finally. Someone who gets it. It even shows in the Norse characters always asking kratos questions about his past and home. Mimir who knows everything doesn’t even know much when it comes to kratos
I don’t think it would really matter kratos atp is no ones fool and hearing the same kind of talk his gods did and his outward distrust with any god he comes into contact with hes not letting it happen
I loved the point you made about rational thought vs irrational feeling but when you said the Spartans only worshiped Kratos because he let the Spartans bring death and destruction. Isn’t the opposite true though, because they respected Kratos as a general and worshiped Kratos after he killed the god of war and and took his throne. This is indicated when one of the Spartans say “all shall know the glory of Sparta” which is what Kratos said in the first game. Which would mean that The Spartans don’t worship Kratos because he lets them bring death and destruction but follow Kratos in his path of destruction because they respected and worshiped Kratos.
@andrewryan8507Not exactly. I think a big reason they worshipped him was because Kratos was one of them. He was a Spartan general, who grew up with their ways, who lived with them, who bled with them in the trenches, who then became a god. It’s as much idolation and admiration as it is everything else.
God worship in Greece was largely based on their city. Athens and Athena. Sparta had the god of war regardless of who it is. So on and so on. It’s a dynamic worth mentioning.
I knew from the Get go the kind of person that Odin was, largely because I used to be him. I recognized rhetorical tactics he used to manipulate people because I used to do the same. I’ve matured since then, and I’m glad I’m not the same person I was.
@@racketraccoon519 kind of. It was more like watching my own kid. Seeing someone I was desperately rooting for make mistakes I’d hoped to spare them from.
A lot of people have also pointed out that everything Óðinn says to Kratos about 'never being worshipped' is also really hardcore projection... Because it 100% is. Narcissists and Machiavellians constantly project their own failures & insecurities onto their victims. Deep down, Óðinn knows he's a monster that everyone (including his own children) rightfully despises because of his actions, and how he treats them. Even though he's trying to prod Kratos' weak spot, he's actually the one losing his composure. That scene is telling you who he really is.
@@deadlyninja112 - The name 'Óðinn' probably translates to 'the mad one' (Old Norse 'óðr'/Icelandic 'óður' meaning 'mad'/'insane'/'crazy'; 'inn' is the definite article suffix for a masculine subject, which is probably what it's supposed to represent in his name), hence why I prefer to use the original name, instead of the anglicized 'Odin'.
meh i mean the midgardians had a hard on for him. Skjodir basically creamed in his pants when atreaus told him he was going to be working with him. Odin definitely does have a very positive view going on around him when it matters. except maybe in nidavillir. So much so that his own granddaughter doesnt believe any of that shit until she cant avoid it. So its not complete projection or a lie on his part but maybe an admission that he knows they shouldnt love him so much if they only knew what he was.
I don’t think that the cupboard is supposed to show that he’s been being worshipped this whole time, I think that it’s supposed to be another prediction by Faye and the giants that Kratos will be a God worth worshipping not a way to prove Oden is wrong by saying that he’s been being a worshipped this whole time
I’m so glad someone else thought this! I personally thought this was a great manipulation by Odin. The way he brings up a part of Kratos history where he was beloved by few for being the embodiment of everything he hates about himself and wants to leave behind. This makes the ending scene so satisfying because he is shown a rewritten vision of him dying for remaining the rage filed monster he used to be, replaced by the people of the nine realms loving him for being the exact opposite. A hero for fights for the good of the people rather than himself. The first selfless god.
It’s also awesome that Kratos grows enough to admit to Atreus that he SHOULD open his heart to people. He learned from Atreus to help others and not just himself. In the end, that plays a huge role in him being worshipped.
So maybe im over analysing this, or maybe it's just my super god of war fan brain but It's worth mentioning that kratos is asked these questions by odin in this order: 1- What do you know of godhood 2 - Has anyone ever Worshipped you? 3 - Ever Prayed to you? 4 - Can you imagine that kind Love? Which if you look at by themselves it's just him trying to cut kratos deep by targeting kratos' status as a god. But Odin knows about Kratos and his history so when I first saw this I focused on the order in which the questions were asked. 1- So what does kratos know of God hood? Short answer not as much as Odin but he knows what a corrupt god looks like. He knows that gods are not without flaws. But this question also would force kratos to recall his past as the ghost of Sparta. Particularly of killing the Greek pantheon and sending his world into chaos. Most of his time as the god of war was made up of him discovering his mother and brother were still alive only to be prisoners of the gods he now sat with and then losing them again, turning every battle in Spartas favor and defying the gods, and finally killing the gods and sending the world into destruction. This question in my opinion is asked to remind kratos of what he's done. 2- As said in the video Kratos was never really Worshipped as a god as much as a home town hero and/or a being you would almost feel obliged to pray to in the hopes of winning a battle. Even if thst worship is out of fear. Even then if you were facing Sparta, praying to kratos wouldn't do anything. This is asked after the first question to remind kratos he really was no better than the gods he killed. Selfish and willing to destroy just so he got what he wanted. This is asked second to drive that first knife deeper. Remind kratos that he is a hypocrite above all else. The whole "Be better" does show us that kratos wants to be better he wants to be what people believe gods to be. Moving on to my next point. 3- Pray to Kratos. Like a lot of the gods kratos probably shut out any prayers towards him that he didn't care about or just flat out ignored prayers from non Spartans or everyone. If that's the case than it would tie in with the last point about the guilt and insecurity of him being more feared and hated than ever worshiped and loved. Odin would also know the destiny of all those who who Worshipped kratos (aka death and destruction), so it would just continue bringing those feelings of guilt to the surface as well as his failure as a god. But I feel the best question was the last. 4- Can you imagine that kind of love? Now Tactical Bacon Production in the past and this video has pointed out kratos' capacity for love and how losing those he's loved affected him. From his wife, to his daughter, to his mother, to his brother, to his second wife and finally at the moment of the scene Atreaus too. Kratos would be desperate to not lose his son to the will of the norse gods the same way he lost his other family members to the will of the Greek gods. This last question was the finishing blow of odin to try and make kratos act impulsively and on emotion alone. Questioning Kratos' understanding of love when odin knows what he has done in the name of those he loved was what should have been enough to throw kratos over the edge. However as mentioned in the video Kratos has dealt with emotional manipulation before by the hands ofthe Greek gods, Athena in particular. He knows what odin is doing and that this is the only hand Odin can deal right now. Hence why yes this question cuts the deepest but Kratos maintains his composure as best he can. Its an interesting attempt to try and bring out the savage in kratos because then odin can claim Kratos attacked him unprovoked in an attempt to further manipulate Atreaus. It's a wonderful scene as it shows just how much Kratos has grown but also how low Odin is willing to steep to keep those he needs close to him. TLDR - The question Odin asks are ordered in a way to remind kratos of his failings in order to create an emotional response in kratos. Each question brought up feelings of anger, loss, shame and self doubt. The last question in particular being one aimed to push kratos over the edge.
I think your analysis makes sense, when looking at the narrative as a whole, but I don't think Odin thought so deeply into it. I just think he knew which buttons to push and asked very surface level questions he knows Kratos won't like the answers to. I don't think they were ordered in a specific way as strategy, I think they were rolling off of Odin's tongue as elaboration.
we spent an entire game hearing about odin being a manipulator, then an entire game seeing Odin manipulating thor, and people STILL dont understand that odin is a manipulator Also kratos doesnt care about being worshipped. He was emotional seeing the mural because of what it represent. We spent a WHOLE game seeing him move on from his past, then a whole game seeing him trying to change his ways. That mural showed him that he changed his nature Changing ones nature was a main theme of BOTH GAMES how did so many people miss it 😂😂
Right? Even when you're talking about the original Norse myths, this portrayal of Odin is quite accurate; manipulative, deceitful, executing power with words and relationships as opposed to authority and intimidation, and also selfish. Brilliant, I don't know why people expected another Zeus type god, because Odin is not a strongman, not even in the myths. He likes to appear humbly and weakly. Brilliant.
@@julianmcmillan2867Odin is an Emperor Palpatine-like character in these games and even a bit in the myths He appears weak and frail while possessing near-unrivaled skill strength and abilities, yet he still chooses manipulation and making others do the work while he pursues knowledge
This video makes me want to replay Ragnarok again. I only played through it once and have been meaning to play it again. Now I watch to everything I miss read from my first playthrough. Thanks for the video.
Bro, watching this video and the last like 4 minutes really did just hit home. Kratos is one of those characters as a teen and 18 year old I hated but now, especially with you hitting the nail on the head, I relate to a lot. Good video man.
Kratos back then wasn't really worshipped as a god, the Spartans knew him as the great general and one of them... Not as a god to love and worship but a general that'll lead them to victory, it's also the reason as to why Odin says how Kratos does not know true godhood because for most of his life he was a mortal manipulated by gods and fighting against them... Odin here is referring to the greenery of being a god instead of throwing his power around...
the issue here is that kratos was acknowledged by spartans as a spartan general not as a god. Kratos status itself was raised because he was promoted as GOD OF WAR who was once a spartan so odin was correct when he said kratos does not know godhood
NO! in fact *HELL NO!* anyone who played GoW Ghost of Sparta or even God of War II Knows that in fact *HE WAS THEIR GOD* a direct line from GoW2: "when Zeus came the people cried and plead for their god to save them but you did not come" this is a fallacy and you either don't remember or didn't even played the original games to begin with 🤨
people get this wrong constantly and i have no clue why i assume they havent actually played the originals. but post gow1 Kratos was absolutely worshipped as a god. its stated straight up with no room for interpretation
@@Ronbotnik it pisses me off so much that this always happens in the GoW community man and then this goes to become the type of comment that gets thousands of likes and the truth gets buried in dislikes then
@@Force-Multiplierexactly the scene just showcased how little they know about kratos they have a vague idea of what he did not how or why he did it. Odin knows he killed the Greek pantheon but he doesn’t know that they were all brutally executed. Nor does Odin have any feat to say he’d do any better than the Greeks seeing as a holding back calm kratos could best every single one of them either killing them or beating them into submission. Like truly imagine that kratos walking through the Norse realms I’m sorry he’s killing everyone in his way solo if he wants to anyone he didn’t beat solo is because of plot. Odin wasn’t truly his fight but more so Freya and Atreus, kratos is only there to protect Atreus he straight up told Freya that if she wants to kill Odin he will not stop her that means he has no thought or plan to go kill odin unless odin attacks them which is what happened and he still restrained himself and allowed aid from others even though he could brutally beat odin to a bloody pulp just off what we saw him do to heimdall for pissing him off
The point of telling half truths is to instill doubt. Truths and lies can be confirmed, but half truths are determined as such by the self. The scene is true to kratoe that he was never worshipped. But we all know Aphrodite worshipped him until I chose to leave.
Even if we start from the point that he was worshiped in the past, Kratos is ashamed and don't like that past. Being taunted for that also hurt I think. Your "bad" self was worshiped, not your actual "better" self
I always read the scene where Kratos cries at the mural being him crying at the realisation that Faye saw this future and truly believed in him to be a better man/god than he thought himself. Like, he and Atreus had been questioning her motives but knowing that she had actually went against her people and saw him acheiving what he sought- to change his nature. She saw everything and she always knew, even when he doubted her and everyone doubted him. Like that relief and love and vindication from someone you cherush above all others. Finding out that someone saw a path for him where he would become a god revered when others only saw hin as a god killing monster
Fantastic video! Apart from the main point, you also give a great analysis of odin in general. This is prolly the next best thing I've watched related to gow Ragnarok after jacob geller's video (please watch that one if you haven't, you might love it because he draws an interesting parallel between norse and greek gow). I'm genuinely happy that TH-camrs like you exist in gow community who make such nuanced and thoughtful content on the game. Keep up the great work❤
I've always had difficulty explaining characters personalities until they've been directly told to me. Odin says things so softly and casually (Thor too) that I could never pin down what kind of man he is. Every time he speaks I had to keep reminding myself of all the damage he's done to the realms.
2:01 "he is villain but does not burn down orphaneges", bro odin literally kidnapped children, murdered them and transfered their souls to ravens to obey him :d
This was a really eye-opening and interesting video, I also was confused about this scene and why this was being brought up, but I never looked at it this way.
When Odin asks if Kratos can imagine the kind of love that is faith it makes me think of Mimir talking about the upbringing of Thor or maybe one of his sons. Imagine having discipline bashed into you. Odin asking if Kratos can imagine that kind of love without him sounding happy about it makes me wonder about how faith would feel. Thinking that I exist, praying for good fortune, and showing some kind of love as long as I do stuff for them. Is this the way Odin learned to see people? After they die he only speaks of them in ways in which he can make use of them. Bargaining with Kratos saying he used self defense, not taking responsibility away for Baldur since he has value, using Heimdall to try to get Atreus to say what Kratos has been doing, saying that they’re square after killing Brok, and thinking about how to turn the scenario to make him look better in Thrud’s eyes after killing Thor. Nothing that includes any amount of care. At most a small amount of appreciation.
I remember thinking as well of odin doing that on purpose, to make krate say”The Spartans!” Just for odin to say”and where are they now?”. Since krate did end sparta in gow 3.
@@TheOtakuKat But when Kratos started killing all the gods, Sparta surely perished as well. If they weren't all drowned when he killed Poseidon, then one of the other disasters finished them off.
I think them killing thor was a massive mistake, would have loved to see him live and become the new king of asgard doing things the right way for once, I hate how they developed his character so well only to kill him, was the only thing I was disapointed on in this game
As someone who played the very first God of War (2005) on the ps2 when I was in middle school in 2006 thanks to my older cousin who was playing it one day at my aunts house for a family birthday party (His sister, my other cousin) him and my other two cousins (His younger brothers, all 3 of them are older than me) shared a room at the time so all of us boys were watching him play until my uncle came in and told us the jumper had arrived; so while everyone else rushed outside, I stood right there still watching him play for the next 45 minutes till he saved the game and said “C’mon Little, let’s go get in the jumper” That’s where my journey began … I’ve basically grown up playing the God of War games (1-3, and Chains of Olympus on the psp) when God of War was released in 2018, by this time I was a working man making my own money so I bought a used ps4 and the game from GameStop cause I was a little behind schedule .. And man oh man .. When Kratos broke out the blades, I freaking shouted so loud at 2 in the morning that my grandpa came in my room cause he thought I got hurt 😅 Anyway, the scene in this game when Kratos and Atreus had their goodbye, don’t get me wrong I got emotional no doubt … But when he seen his mural in the back, by the architecture of the buildings I knew it was his story, leaving Greece then the second panel was basically the first game, then the third .. Let me tell you I was pretty drunk at this time, I knew I beat the game and I had like 3 shots back to back, once I seen him painted in gold on a pedestal with everyone around worshipping him I bawled into tears, set down my controller and put my hand over my heart … Thinking back to my own journey with this character and all that he had been through, this ending for him (As far the Norse mythology) was just so earned and perfect, then he started to sniffle/cry and even leaned against the mural which made me go “Oh, man” and bawl even more . I’m not gonna say if you didn’t cry then you’re not a true fan, I know there’s plenty of reaction channels where someone is catching up on these games and enjoy them AND become fans, and that’s perfectly fine But I will say this: If you didn’t cry at not only the mural itself of Kratos being a God worthy of worship but seeing him also pretty much cry then you just don’t have the emotional attachment as I do actually growing up playing these games .. In 3 years 2006 will have been 20 years ago (Holy shit I’m old) so for people who started their journey earlier this year or even back in 2018, there’s no comparison . K I’m done, be safe out there wherever you are in the world TH-cam community, and thank you Tactical Bacon for this video !
I do always love the "you may meet the god I once was" moment cause when odin replies "and what kind of god is that?" I feel like hes risking a LOT poking at kratos considering the answer to that question is "greece isnt there anymore, guy who is trying to avoid the destruction of his realm. That kind"
we're still talking about the greek God of war thousands of years later, people other than sparta absolutely worshipped Ares though the spartans were the only ones to build temples to Phobos the greek God of fear and loss.
I think the reason those words from Odin strike so deep are that Kratos looking back probably wishes he could have been the kind of diety he was at the end of GOW:R that he was back then. He brought immense ruin across the greek world regardless of the whole war with the pantheon and that is clearly weighing heavily on him in the norse games as he tries to ensure his son will be a better man. BUt Odin in the end cant fully use that against Kratos because of the afformentioned experiences dealing with people like Ares, Athena and Zues manipulating him and his focus on geting Aetreus back safely that he can shrug off Odins attempts to do so.
I think a slightly closer interpretation is that Kratos knows that he was worshipped in the past, but only for the atrocities that he regrets. And he doesn't see a future in which he could be worshipped again, especially for anything other than war.
5:00 the spartans have worshiped Kratos,in ghost of sparta the spartans take down Ares' statue in front of his temple to put one of Kratos.I remember the soldier saying after the statue of Ares was taken down:''All hail lord Kratos,the god of war'' Surely thats not the only time somebody worshiped him
Kratos didn't one day just wake up and choose violence to the Gods. The Gods were Petty is they had been with countless mortals. This one was half God... It cost them... Had any of them kept their word. His rampage would have stopped long ago!
The Gods used Kratos for years but I think the no return point was when Kratos found out what the Gods did to his mother and brother. Kidnapping Deimos was way before Kratos was ever actually a danger to the Gods so they set up in motion the events that destroyed them by trying to stop the prophecy of them being destroyed.
Even though I do feel gowr did lose a lot of it’s nuance compared to 2018. I must say when they leaned into it in certain scenes it’s incredible & what I loved most abt gow. The tension & nuance is the house scene is a good example
Odin telling Kratos that he hasn’t been worshipped and knows nothing of godhood has so many layers to it. On the surface, the Aesir don’t really know much about what exactly happened to Olympus beyond a Godkiller destroying the Greek pantheon, so it’s likely that Odin truly believes that Kratos has never been worshipped or loved. Kratos has a noticeable reaction to the line, and grows angrier as he reflects on killing his last Spartan (people forget that it was a huge drive for his vengeance too). Mimir even mentions afterwards that “he’s just trying to get in your head” since it’s likely he knows about that too
HEAVILY disagree that you're viewing something objectively when you view it for the first time. its like the exact opposite of that. unless you're given something to watch or read or review with no prior knowledge at all theres obviously going to be something influencing you when you view something for the 1st time. it isnt until you see something fully and multiple times can you really get everything about the situation. for example, theres no way to fully review thors actions when he meets kratos for the 1st time until you realize what he's going through later on in the game. to say thats objective is missing the mark completely
Here is some of my points regarding the points made in this video: 1.) Odin uses Thor has his hammer to any nail (problem) that he has. While he used Baldr as his hound dog to track down things of interest. 2.) Odin knows Kratos' past so he wanted to sugar coat his agenda while talking to him but it went to the point that Odin was pointing out his divine status due to the lack of people that worship Kratos (detachment of his past because he knew that his past is always going to haunt him) 3.) The thing about the part with "the people would still worship the Gods" part of the video. I am a pagan and I am a historian too. Yes, when there was a drought or famine you would still call upon the deities to help out but at the same time they would act on those prayers too. If there was a drought, they would pray to Demeter to help with the crops and for Zeus to bring rain while they work in the fields. That or if you want to be realistic in how Ancient Greece was like they would have slave labor in the major city-states like Athens and Sparta. 4.) "Only the Spartans worshipped Kratos as the God of War", given what we know about the Ares cult worship around the cities of Greece and several in the Asia Minor. I would assume it would be the same for Kratos. Ares was a figure that was noted to be favored by the Spartans as their patron deity of that city-state but the Scythians also gave offerings to Ares in blood offerings. They worshipped him in Crete as well. So, I assume that Kratos when he was deified that he filled the role their patron deity of said areas that Ares once had (before the whole Greece being under water type of deal lol) 5.) Apotheosis or deifying after death. Hercules did it. Asclepius did it. And other demigods (Kratos is a demigod in the series as well due to his mother was human and his father is well... Zeus). The Spartans started praying to Kratos because they knew that the role was switched from Ares to him. Ancient Greece is HUGE on doing oral story telling. I bet they (the humans in The God of War series) were telling tales of what happened and why they are painting Kratos on the vases and other depictions of him on their stuff. 6.) I think with the part of Kratos didn't see it as worship or anything like that because Kratos still hates the fact that he is a God (meaning that he hates that he is one because that comes from Zeus then it replays the memories of his past). The story arc of him telling Atreus that he was part God in the first game was because Kratos wanted to hide that fact from him because his distaste for Gods in general and his distrust when dealing with them. He didn't want him (Atreus) to end up like the Gods that he once killed in his past. Thus, the whole thing with "Be better" was talked about throughout the first game through examples of Baldr or Kratos telling his past or etc. That is one of the core themes through both games where Kratos wants Atreus to be not a God but better than them. AND this was an amazing video!!
Haven't even started watching the video but I'm happy someone made a video of this topic I feel when Kratos confronts Odin and Odin accuses Kratos of being a self-serving brute of a God with no idea of what it means to have people in need of godly intervention call upon him and it really registered with me because that's exactly what Kratos was a cruel self serving brute with no care in the world about how he hurts anyone or anything in his desires.
In my view, I always saw that moment at the end of the game as being more about what the realms would think of Kratos when it was all over. I feel like a huge portion of this game is Kratos trying to be better "Than the god I once was". He even has to extend severely out of this comfort zone to convince Thor that they can no longer be destroyers, but Ragnarok is absolutely a moment of destruction and almost nothing else. For all of this to be over and for the people to see him as a golden figure, a true god to be worshipped, it proves that Kratos has not slipped and become the man he tried to leave behind in Greece, but rather has carved for himself a new life and a new meaning. He may be a God of War, but he is no longer a God of Destruction.
i really like the opening with odin and thor and kratos sitting at the table. So much going on with body language that you completely miss out just freaking out omg thor and kratos about to fight. Showing the cracks between thor and odin immediately and how angry thor looks at odin talking about his useless kids. And odin taunting him with the drinks while we know he is trying to quit and be better for thrud. at some moments thor has to even look away and collect himself. I also like the always ready for dad moment kratos does with his hand always going for the axe on the table any time odin approches or mentions atreus then when he realizes there is no threat his hand always retreats slowly. So many little details going on i love it.
Small correction. Kratos almost fell for odin’s deal at the start he even says as much. Odin then brought up freya which is why Kratos denied the deal cause she saved Artreus’s life.
@@hurricane7727 The implication odin gives is that he would deal with her. This could mean all sorts of things but from the first game kratos has saw how odin deals with enemies. Look at mimir and how they found him. Kratos is already distrustful of odin from the people he has spoke to and states he would not find it wise to side with freyas ex husband even though he was tempted by the offer in the in game notes.
@@DirtyStinky He Could have Been Killed By Thor if Odin Ordered it after Kratos refused the Deal or Odin Could Killed His Son Himself after Kratos Was Attacked by Thor.
I want to explain an idea of mine about the Valhalla DLC, so spoilers after the jump. In the final scene, where Kratos finally takes a seat on the throne...I absolutely would have loved it if the ashes on his skin flaked away and returned him to his original skin color. Those ashes have always been (to me, at least) a symbol of his guilt and rage. A constant reminder that he killed his family, and the source of his moniker as the Ghost of Sparta. But Kratos isn't the Ghost of Sparta anymore, nor is he the rage-filled monster he used to be. He's learned graciousness, restraint, humility, acceptance, and new forms of love. The love of a father, and a brother, and a friend. I think losing the ashes would have been a powerful metaphor for Kratos' decision to finally come to terms with his past, with himself, and his readiness to face his future.
Faye's wish for her husband was for him to achieve what he wanted. To no longer been seen as a monster. She worked hard to change his fate from what her people predicted but more so what he had been tossed into by others and to help him heal from all the trauma he endured. Now it is true, he has never had a true worship because of what tyoe of god he is. What he DOESN'T know is that Greece is not only not destroyed but the urn in Tyr's temple showed he is in fact still worshipped. The statue at the end was Faye's gift to him. Like she said if he opened his heart to the world he would find all he needed when she was gone. He did as she asked, he showed he had become a better god and man when he saved the Midgardians because they were inocent in the fight and showed them what a god that cares looks like while ODIN showed them what crap gods were like so of course they love him
Wow, the mosaic of Dionisus, I see it regularly, I work as a tourist guide, and seeing it in your video is amazing. It's one of the most well preserved mosaics in Greece in the ancient city of Dion. At the foothills of mount Olympus. Amazing piece of art.
If they ment worshiped on a wide scale then they should've said that instead they say has ANYONE ever worshiped you or prayed to you? Yes he has had worshipers and the spartans did love him but what your talking about is wide scale worshiped I think they shouldve worded this differently by saying has multiple cities ever worshiped and looked up to you or something along those lines
And another reason why this scene bothers me is because the new players who have never played the greek games will think Kratos has never had worshipers or loved by anyone and that further feeds into the greek Kratos is a one note character with no depth and was angry for no reason lie that's been spread
@@HouseofRedWineI think if that were the case, it’s not the games fault. And I think bacon more so meant that the worshipping krate got was not really traditional worshipping, more of a war cry more than anything(not 100 percent true giving it more thought, but this conversation ain’t black and white like bacon said).
@@Omar8181 I'm not blaming bacon I'm blaming the writers if what they ment was wide scale worship then they should've worded what Odin said differently
Many ancient cultures did in fact have a give and take mentality to worship. They believed the gods didn't really favor anyone by default. The closest might be patrons deities that people from a place strongly identified with, but it was never the same as in abrahamic faiths. Instead you asked for favors or boons, promising something in return. "Help me win and I'll sacrifice 100 goats." "Accept this offering and protect my wife during labor." "Protect our city and we will make a temple for you." The static and continual reverence and worship of a primary deity is not inherent to religion in general, rather a feature of certain places, times, and culture. The characterization of Kratos as the God of War in GoW II is very much in line with how Ares would have been regarded, or even more accurately: Kratos' original plea to Ares for power is just a supernatural telling of EXACTLY how the ancient Greeks viewed their relationship with the gods.
What was the point of the retcon of Kratos being a "God" when he killed everyone in GOW3? So Odin sort of read my thoughts like "hey you're not a God."
I believe the quote "Don't be sorry, be better" is the same quote that was told to him during his inhumane training regiment in Sparta. Be better or die inferior, there is no place for apologies, no place for mistakes, which was the only training Kratos ever got as a kid and used it to Atreus, failing to understand that it wasn't love or affection because simply he knew none. Which is why later on when Atreus does succeed Kratos commends him and goes easier on him.
I personally think Sparta actually loved kratos not just because he's the new god of war but because he fought for them and beside them before he became a god basically they were like a family in a sense and I also think kratos looking at the Mural to see that he's actually a hero and no longer a monster like everyone been calling him sense the beginning of the franchise 😅 but great video
TBP’s concept of pagan worship has been distorted by the Judeo-Christian understanding of worship. In the Greek mythological context, the gods are very much looked at as objects of fear. Their interaction with the world of mortals comes insofar as mortal lives mean little to them and can be useful for their own ends. People offer sacrifices to the gods to appease them, to stave off their wrath and anger or to gain their protection or a boon. They represent the very order of nature, and serve as an explanation for chaos. When the world seems to be ordered, the gods have been appeased. When chaos ensues, there has been disruption on Olympus. It’s not an unconditional devotion. Unconditional love is a Christian concept from the God who loves his creation because He *is* love. I haven’t studied Norse mythology as much so I can’t say for sure, but I highly doubt Norse adoration for Odin or other Norse gods comes from some sense of unconditional love on behalf of its believers. I’m fairly certain it would parallel the Greek mythos far more than Christian theology.
That makes sense and yeah that's exactly what Odin would try and do, i love little things like that despite my biased takes on both Norse GOWs. These takes being, mediocre games, a few good qualities
I gotta say, man. I really appreciate you and your videos, especially on my boy Kratos here. You've helped me appreciate a character I grew up with more than I think I would have otherwise and that's why he's one of my favorites now too. I always thought he was misunderstood, but you've helped put that into words and have helped people see that too. Hope you're well, man.
Kratos: *Exists* Every God in creation: "Screw him over, and make him regret being born..." Kratos: *Proceeds to wreck everything they spent millennia building up in a matter of minutes* Every God in Creation: ( ° ~ ° )
Wait, people were actually bitching about that? I never played the game, i just watched a long play last year while i was out with Covid for a week. I've seen a majority of what that game has, and i especially liked that one scene. I figured that out right away, Kratos was "worshipped" but he was never *loved* by his disciples, and that's another point that Odin tries to drive into Kratos during that scene. It was so powerful
I feel like him crying at the mural was more of him thinking of Fate and how no matter what he was she always saw him as more and didn’t judge him and knew he was a good person
2:58 Probably, but he did mention in the codex pages why he said no to Odin from the start, it was because of Freya and if it weren't for Freya he would've said yes.
One of the most rewarding interactions of this game is watching Kratos refuse to dance to Odin's tune. I think the real revelation here is that Odin conflates love with worship. To him, that's all love is. But unlike love, worship isn't returned. So while his words may get under Kratos' skin a little, he reveals how much Kratos has gotten under his skin. Because he's so desperately trying to best Kratos by the only measure he knows, "I'm more worshipped than you." But Kratos has already figured out how empty it is to be worshiped. The joy of love isn't in how much you are loved, but in how much you love. And I thought this interaction only solidified Kratos' determination to love Atreus all the more, not to punish him for insubordination, but to try harder to show his love and support. Odin's idea of fatherhood is nothing but a demand for obedience. His family serves as terrible warning of where that kind of "love" leads. I think Kratos learns a lot from that example. "Don't be Odin" is the lesson of the game. And seeing through the false value of worship is part of that. It's not love at all. Odin, who loves no one, can never see that. It's loving, not being loved, that nourishes. Odin's bottomless hunger for more worship is like his hunger for more power, more knowledge. It'll never fill him up, because it's not feeding anything alive, just empty ego.
Thing to add on, I took him getting emotional at the end as him realizing Faye's prediction and the personal meaning behind it. The game makes a point that prophecy isn't much more than "this is the kind of person you are, so this is what will happen", and everyone had a more "outdated" viewpoint of Kratos from his Ghost of Sparta days, so their "prophecy" saw his death. Faye, however, actually knew him. She knew what he was, what he would be, she knew him more than he knew himself, and that final mural showed it. The whole journey, Kratos doubts himself in multiple ways, but she knew the good in him and the God he would be. The final mural is, through everything he'd been through, almost like her being a cheeky partner. "See, I knew you could do it", and Kratos sees that she believed in him this whole time, even when it felt like no one else did.
I wish they split ragnarok into two games 1st part goes all the way up to when this part (0:43) happens and the 2nd part being ragnarok itself this way we get to experience all the new characters much more, like thor, heimdall, and odin it wouldve been so cool to see odin manipulate kratos to the point that kratos even starts to doubt himself and this way the ragnarok ending/part of the game isnt rushed into 30 minutes with two boss fights
I don't believe the people now worship Kratos as some kind of "God of Peace" in mural. The last panel simply shows the people revereing him. It is he who was this prophetic "champion" not Atreus.
![[TH] 2024 PMGC League | Survival Stage วันที่ 1 | PUBG MOBILE Global Championship](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/FVFT-PFwU80/mqdefault.jpg)
Every time you say that Kratos involved himself in the “mortal conflicts” my mind always jumps to him participating in mortal kombat 2011
You're not wrong 😂
@@superboyprime8056that's cannon btw :3
Don't you mean...
Mortal Konflict?
@@ihaveaplan.ijustneedmoney.9777😂
@@superboyprime8056 he was in shovel knight!?!?!?!???????
I really do believe that the ending where kratos is seen crying at that mural isnt due to him finally being worshipped as a god, its that people no longer see him as a monster, but as someone worth revering as a hero and good person. Kratos' whole goal in these games (outside of keeping his only family safe and just surviving) was to move past his old self. To get rid of the anger and come to terms with the guilt and trauma that he has wrought on others, and himself. He sees himself as a monster and despite trying to so desperately to move past it, everyone he meets who've heard of him only see him as such. Look at freyja and mimir, they had heard of the ghost of sparta, destroyer of civilizations, killer of gods, monster of mankind. But they hadn't heard of kratos, the man betrayed by the very gods he looked to for guidance, the man who had to give up a peaceful afterlife with his daughter, the man who had killed his own family either because he was tricked or because he had no choice. So him seeing that statue, surrounded by those who see a Hero? He breaks down, knowing that all his effort isnt in vain. He's not a monster anymore. He's a man, and a good one at that.
Couldn't agree more, thanks for putting it into words
This comment should be pinned.
👏👏👏
He didn’t cry. There were no tears
Lol I know I am going to have a belligerent child. Either insult me without any substance or use an emoji.
wich is entirely not on character for him
Kratos isn't the praiseseeking type
so if Kratos was on character and is getting joy it definitely wouldn't be for this reason you mentioned of others seeing him a "worthy"
its way more more likely to be joy in finding that Faye left him a purpose since after Atreus is gone he wouldn't have anything to love for
"I have faith that our brothers of Sparta will live on through the true god of War"
- The Last Spartan.
So far you are the only person who actually seems to know a thing about Kratos in this comment section
and judging from the likes ratio on certain factually incorrect claims people are making im pretty convinced that 90% of people watching this either didn't played them or don't remember much about the older GoW games
Also on the last Spartan in GoW2 he also said
that the people of Sparta cried for help and plead for their god to come and save them was Zeus was killing them
making it clear that they viewed him like a god unlike what the most liked comments are saying
im honestly pissed at how in this community convenient ignorance is what usually gets the most praise
@@Force-Multiplier Bro you speak Facts The people of Sparta really loved Kratos. and the community says Kratos wasn't a deep character. which baffles me. wait till about ten years after this game when the next are released then fans begin to say that Kratos here was still a childish. compared to his future self don't be surprised
@@colonellzaran2207yeah some ppl are slow, Kratos is such a top tier character for so many reasons
@@Force-Multiplier on top of that...in god of war ghost of sparta, the Last Spartan is seen kneeling to give him his spear and shield and isnt there a statue of Kratos in that game?
I don't think Kratos was crying because people were worshipping him. I'm pretty sure it's because of what the worship itself showed about how people saw him; as a protector and a peacekeeper, someone who is beloved by the people as a good person. And he actually breaks down crying because he is overwhelmed at realizing that he's finally found redemption after all this time.
yooo kratos is red (sorta) dead (sorta) redemption??? hell yea
It's also planned for him to meet Jesus at a certain point in the games, which would truly save him of the sins that he bears.
@@notanyone2433 Honestly, Kratos decking big J would be hilarious. And actually visualizing all the atrocities of the old testament from Kratos' perspective would be really interesting.
I think more games should use christianity like that. Imagine playing as Jesus in Smite lol. @@notanyone2433
@@Suthek The guys who made God of War said they wouldn't fight at all, but Jesus would instead save him. I think that it would also result in the ashes of his wife and daughter coming off to show that he truly is forgiven.
Odin feels like a mafia don in this game. Richard Schiff did such a great job voicing this character.
yeah he is basically Norse Vito Corolene no different from Mythological counterpart from The Eddas
Except that old man grunt at the end of the game that had me dying laughing in the middle of a boss fight
@@braytonnelson-goldman8516 GOW villains have always been Hammy
I immediately understood exactly what type of character Odin was in that first scene. He is the embodiment of the soul of the actual mythical Loki. The manipulator, the liar, the con.
in the sagas odin is mentioned to be almost as good a deciever and manipulator as loki, almost as strong as Thor and almost as Wise as Mimir. He is the ideal every nordic king and chief aspired to be. Fierce warrior, wise and cunning. A great warrior might be stronger than the king but that doesnt mean they would be better ruler, neither will smart but weak priest lead the tribe to success. Odin might not be the best at 1 thing but he is almost the best at everything and thats why he is the king of the gods
In some Norse mythological tellings, it is clear that Odin and Loki are very alike to one another, and many comparisons are drawn between them. The main two differences between them, I think, is that Loki had large difficulties controlling himself, which he couldn't in the end and ultimately led to Ragnorok and his own demise, and the other being Loki being a little bit more coward than Odin.
Mythological Odin is almost as much a trickster as Loki. The Romans even equated him to Mercury.
@@lensluiz8357I’d say he’s even more trickster, that’s why he loved Loki too
You read my mind, Bacon Man.
What I really love about Odin is that they don’t just tell us he’s smart, they show us he’s smart. Like baiting Atreus into finding “Tyr” so he could secretly keep a close eye on them. Or how he found a loop-hole to summon the Einherjar early, and used Nidhogg to secure Freya’s binding spell.
It’s actually an underrated feat. Einerjar were supposed to pop up ONLY at ragnarok
But the guy managed to bring them early, getting an army of immortal
@@anselmopat4985 My point exactly. Plus, the way he did it by appointing a new Valkyrie queen makes complete sense.
What was the loophole? I missed it.
@@WheatDos The Valkyries are the ones who determine which souls stay in Hel and which ones go to Valhalla. Thus, like I said, Odin appointed a new Valkyrie Queen. Which meant he could summon the souls of the warriors from Valhalla early.
@@WheatDos Also, the lindworm Nidhogg was the natural protector of the World Tree. That’s why Odin made Freya’s curse using roots from the tree because he knew Nidhogg would protect them at all costs.
Completely agree it's one of the best parts of the game. He kinda fears Kratos but he also doesn't back down on pissing him off either.
He does what he feels like he has to do in my eyes. He knows who he is dealing with of course. But he isn’t afraid to fight him.
@@Omar8181Odin went into the fight with Kratos like it was a mild inconvenience to him
That “Looks like I have to do everything around here” is so casual and annoyed. I love the way Odin has the power do take on Kratos and his son but would still rather have someone else do it
@@presseagainidareyou4704 Freya saved Kratos and Atreus so damn hard. She carried.
@@TheStraightestWhitest honestly though. We saw Kratos at his peak by the end of the game and Odin was still able to deal with him and Atreus. I think it’s funny how much people act like Odin’s a complete weakling like he didn’t take an enormous beating from three very powerful, and well-equipped gods and he still gave them a run for their money
i always prefer to Norse Mythology to Greek Mythology but it was cool seeing it cross over yeah Odin did his homework
I think what odin said in particular “to be loved” was what hit most. sure kratos was briefly worshipped but you don’t really love a god of war. In fact the majority of greeks rightfully feared and loathed him for all the war and slaughter in his name. For him to learn that the nordic folk revere him as a benevolent god, I think thats what he always wanted deep down. To protect, not needlessly mutilate and slaughter like in his darker days.
I don't think Kratos wants to be revered. Kratos has always had disdain for attention. But he obviously prefers it more than being feared.
So, I think it's more sense of relief for him, that he can be a builder and no longer a destroyer and that he doesn't necessarily want to feel loved like a god, but he is thankful that he is no longer hated and feared as a god. I think he just wanted his life as a god to bring light to people instead of darkness and seeing that mural tells him as much
also it was at a point where Kratos still feels no fufilment. his people could well have loved him but, he would never have felt or understood it because he could not care for himself.
Most Greeks thought of Aries as scary and all but in most stories he’s also a dumbass and made fun alot by the other gods. Also it makes sense that the city state all about war, worshipped the god of war. Kratos genuinely loves Sparta. He talks about it all the time and the only people he treats well are the Spartans and he shows genuine love for them throughout all the games, in god of war 3 one of his magics is literally spartan ghost appearing to defend him and rain arrows. Shit in the new ones he talks about spear and shield is the best combo cause of Sparta although we rarely see him use one through out the series. A big point of the new games is the Norse gods have only heard vague stories but know nothing past him at face value
"You don't really love a God of war" Athena exists...
@@thelionofjudah5318 To be fair, she wasn't just a god of war. She was a god of wisdom as well. That is why she is revered far more as a god of war.
Also, I find your username really ironic being in a comment section like this, lol. No hate, just funny.
I think you forgot one small detail...
When zues attacked sparta the last spartan warrior specifically said "they prayed to you. They pray for their god to protect them. But you never came." Or something like that so yes. The people of sparta did have faith in him even through thick or thin.
I think that still kinda just goes back to them wanting Kratos to win a battle for them. They're still really only calling on him as essentially their nuke to deploy on the battlefield. Although it can be argued that in that instances they want him there more for protection rather than conquest Kratos still ultimately didn't answer their call the one time it was made out of genuine need. That could still perfectly feed into his guilt and the validity of Odin's words because Kratos was in a far off place seeking his own personal vengeance rather than hearing the prayers for protection the one time it was asked of him.
Yeah, uh, if someone only calls for me when they want something, that isn't a friend. It's a leech at worst and a flake at best. Why should it be different for gods, especially in a culture like the Greeks who involved worship in so many aspects of life?
Odin definitely seemed like an overt villain the moment he visited Kratos' home to make him an offer (he couldn't refuse). I was married to someone with very similar traits and toxic characteristics and can spot an abuser a mile away.
I love when Odin is like "has anyone ever prayed to you, worshipped you or can you even imagine that kind of love?" literally Kratos had everything at one point but because of his old ways he lost everything. Every single little thing norse gods claim to know about Kratos is based on pure legends but they never know the actual reason or the true story behind everything that happened in Greece. I am 100% if Odin knew the actual truth about Kratos he could've manipulated him.
I doubt it, after Athena he ain't trusting anyone ever again
Finally. Someone who gets it. It even shows in the Norse characters always asking kratos questions about his past and home. Mimir who knows everything doesn’t even know much when it comes to kratos
I don’t think it would really matter kratos atp is no ones fool and hearing the same kind of talk his gods did and his outward distrust with any god he comes into contact with hes not letting it happen
They way he delivered the "what do you know about Godhood" line. Probably one of my favorite scenes
@@rearistt5865well if your trusted allies backstabbed u 3 times ,its really hard to trust anyone at that point
I loved the point you made about rational thought vs irrational feeling but when you said the Spartans only worshiped Kratos because he let the Spartans bring death and destruction.
Isn’t the opposite true though, because they respected Kratos as a general and worshiped Kratos after he killed the god of war and and took his throne. This is indicated when one of the Spartans say “all shall know the glory of Sparta” which is what Kratos said in the first game. Which would mean that The Spartans don’t worship Kratos because he lets them bring death and destruction but follow Kratos in his path of destruction because they respected and worshiped Kratos.
@andrewryan8507Not exactly. I think a big reason they worshipped him was because Kratos was one of them. He was a Spartan general, who grew up with their ways, who lived with them, who bled with them in the trenches, who then became a god. It’s as much idolation and admiration as it is everything else.
God worship in Greece was largely based on their city. Athens and Athena. Sparta had the god of war regardless of who it is. So on and so on. It’s a dynamic worth mentioning.
Kratos was worshipped and feared before, the mural wasnt showing the people worshipping him, it was showing him being loved.
I knew from the Get go the kind of person that Odin was, largely because I used to be him. I recognized rhetorical tactics he used to manipulate people because I used to do the same. I’ve matured since then, and I’m glad I’m not the same person I was.
Me too! You sound like you used to a total d-bag. Much like Odin.
That's interesting was it like looking into a mirror almost seeing how Odin behaved?
@@racketraccoon519 kind of. It was more like watching my own kid. Seeing someone I was desperately rooting for make mistakes I’d hoped to spare them from.
A lot of people have also pointed out that everything Óðinn says to Kratos about 'never being worshipped' is also really hardcore projection... Because it 100% is. Narcissists and Machiavellians constantly project their own failures & insecurities onto their victims. Deep down, Óðinn knows he's a monster that everyone (including his own children) rightfully despises because of his actions, and how he treats them. Even though he's trying to prod Kratos' weak spot, he's actually the one losing his composure. That scene is telling you who he really is.
Mf said "œðįŋŋ" 😂
@@deadlyninja112 - The name 'Óðinn' probably translates to 'the mad one' (Old Norse 'óðr'/Icelandic 'óður' meaning 'mad'/'insane'/'crazy'; 'inn' is the definite article suffix for a masculine subject, which is probably what it's supposed to represent in his name), hence why I prefer to use the original name, instead of the anglicized 'Odin'.
@@liamstewart2287 its just funny looking, thanks for the info though 🙏🏽
@@deadlyninja112 - Anoðer fun fact: ðe letter eð literally just represents ðe 'th' sound in English words like 'ðis', 'ðat', or 'ðere'.
meh i mean the midgardians had a hard on for him. Skjodir basically creamed in his pants when atreaus told him he was going to be working with him. Odin definitely does have a very positive view going on around him when it matters. except maybe in nidavillir. So much so that his own granddaughter doesnt believe any of that shit until she cant avoid it. So its not complete projection or a lie on his part but maybe an admission that he knows they shouldnt love him so much if they only knew what he was.
I don’t think that the cupboard is supposed to show that he’s been being worshipped this whole time, I think that it’s supposed to be another prediction by Faye and the giants that Kratos will be a God worth worshipping not a way to prove Oden is wrong by saying that he’s been being a worshipped this whole time
Nobody said that though?
As the Norns said: You will die Kratos of *Sparta*.
I’m so glad someone else thought this!
I personally thought this was a great manipulation by Odin. The way he brings up a part of Kratos history where he was beloved by few for being the embodiment of everything he hates about himself and wants to leave behind.
This makes the ending scene so satisfying because he is shown a rewritten vision of him dying for remaining the rage filed monster he used to be, replaced by the people of the nine realms loving him for being the exact opposite. A hero for fights for the good of the people rather than himself. The first selfless god.
Kratos wasn't worshipped by the spartans because he is one of them he's basically a extremely respected warrior
Ghost of Sparta says otherwise and so does GOW 2. They worshipped him even MORE because he’s one of them
He doesn't seem to know what a Patron god is. Athens has Athena as her patron, Sparta has Kratos as his patron.
It’s also awesome that Kratos grows enough to admit to Atreus that he SHOULD open his heart to people. He learned from Atreus to help others and not just himself. In the end, that plays a huge role in him being worshipped.
Kratos cries in the end not because he is worshipped but because people care about him and consider him worthy to be worshipped.
The writer of the game
Legit forgot kratos had a army of spartans who worshipped him
So maybe im over analysing this, or maybe it's just my super god of war fan brain but It's worth mentioning that kratos is asked these questions by odin in this order:
1- What do you know of godhood
2 - Has anyone ever Worshipped you?
3 - Ever Prayed to you?
4 - Can you imagine that kind Love?
Which if you look at by themselves it's just him trying to cut kratos deep by targeting kratos' status as a god. But Odin knows about Kratos and his history so when I first saw this I focused on the order in which the questions were asked.
1- So what does kratos know of God hood? Short answer not as much as Odin but he knows what a corrupt god looks like. He knows that gods are not without flaws. But this question also would force kratos to recall his past as the ghost of Sparta. Particularly of killing the Greek pantheon and sending his world into chaos. Most of his time as the god of war was made up of him discovering his mother and brother were still alive only to be prisoners of the gods he now sat with and then losing them again, turning every battle in Spartas favor and defying the gods, and finally killing the gods and sending the world into destruction. This question in my opinion is asked to remind kratos of what he's done.
2- As said in the video Kratos was never really Worshipped as a god as much as a home town hero and/or a being you would almost feel obliged to pray to in the hopes of winning a battle. Even if thst worship is out of fear. Even then if you were facing Sparta, praying to kratos wouldn't do anything. This is asked after the first question to remind kratos he really was no better than the gods he killed. Selfish and willing to destroy just so he got what he wanted. This is asked second to drive that first knife deeper. Remind kratos that he is a hypocrite above all else. The whole "Be better" does show us that kratos wants to be better he wants to be what people believe gods to be. Moving on to my next point.
3- Pray to Kratos. Like a lot of the gods kratos probably shut out any prayers towards him that he didn't care about or just flat out ignored prayers from non Spartans or everyone. If that's the case than it would tie in with the last point about the guilt and insecurity of him being more feared and hated than ever worshiped and loved. Odin would also know the destiny of all those who who Worshipped kratos (aka death and destruction), so it would just continue bringing those feelings of guilt to the surface as well as his failure as a god. But I feel the best question was the last.
4- Can you imagine that kind of love? Now Tactical Bacon Production in the past and this video has pointed out kratos' capacity for love and how losing those he's loved affected him. From his wife, to his daughter, to his mother, to his brother, to his second wife and finally at the moment of the scene Atreaus too. Kratos would be desperate to not lose his son to the will of the norse gods the same way he lost his other family members to the will of the Greek gods. This last question was the finishing blow of odin to try and make kratos act impulsively and on emotion alone. Questioning Kratos' understanding of love when odin knows what he has done in the name of those he loved was what should have been enough to throw kratos over the edge. However as mentioned in the video Kratos has dealt with emotional manipulation before by the hands ofthe Greek gods, Athena in particular. He knows what odin is doing and that this is the only hand Odin can deal right now. Hence why yes this question cuts the deepest but Kratos maintains his composure as best he can.
Its an interesting attempt to try and bring out the savage in kratos because then odin can claim Kratos attacked him unprovoked in an attempt to further manipulate Atreaus. It's a wonderful scene as it shows just how much Kratos has grown but also how low Odin is willing to steep to keep those he needs close to him.
TLDR - The question Odin asks are ordered in a way to remind kratos of his failings in order to create an emotional response in kratos. Each question brought up feelings of anger, loss, shame and self doubt. The last question in particular being one aimed to push kratos over the edge.
I think your analysis makes sense, when looking at the narrative as a whole, but I don't think Odin thought so deeply into it.
I just think he knew which buttons to push and asked very surface level questions he knows Kratos won't like the answers to. I don't think they were ordered in a specific way as strategy, I think they were rolling off of Odin's tongue as elaboration.
we spent an entire game hearing about odin being a manipulator, then an entire game seeing Odin manipulating thor, and people STILL dont understand that odin is a manipulator
Also kratos doesnt care about being worshipped. He was emotional seeing the mural because of what it represent. We spent a WHOLE game seeing him move on from his past, then a whole game seeing him trying to change his ways. That mural showed him that he changed his nature
Changing ones nature was a main theme of BOTH GAMES how did so many people miss it 😂😂
Right?
Even when you're talking about the original Norse myths, this portrayal of Odin is quite accurate; manipulative, deceitful, executing power with words and relationships as opposed to authority and intimidation, and also selfish.
Brilliant, I don't know why people expected another Zeus type god, because Odin is not a strongman, not even in the myths. He likes to appear humbly and weakly. Brilliant.
@@julianmcmillan2867
And keep a freaking danger stick that can kill even gods in a singular hit. Dude was freaking dangerous as all hell. O.o
@@julianmcmillan2867Odin is an Emperor Palpatine-like character in these games and even a bit in the myths
He appears weak and frail while possessing near-unrivaled skill strength and abilities, yet he still chooses manipulation and making others do the work while he pursues knowledge
Which goes back to brok and his whole spiel of the nature of something.
I thought he broke down because Faye saw it in him the whole time? It’s been awhile since I played it, but I could’ve sworn that’s what it was…
I hope this channel get the recognition it deserves. Every tactical bacon notification makes my day a lot better! Kudos from Brazil 🇧🇷
2:00 Except when you find out about the Ravens....
This video makes me want to replay Ragnarok again. I only played through it once and have been meaning to play it again. Now I watch to everything I miss read from my first playthrough. Thanks for the video.
I'm glad to see people today starting to finally appreciate this great villain.
Bro, watching this video and the last like 4 minutes really did just hit home. Kratos is one of those characters as a teen and 18 year old I hated but now, especially with you hitting the nail on the head, I relate to a lot. Good video man.
i dont understand why youd hate kratos as a character though? hes only gotten done dirty by everyone around him his entire life.
I don't see why you decided to separate being a teen and an 18 year old when you're still a teenager at 18.
Kratos back then wasn't really worshipped as a god, the Spartans knew him as the great general and one of them...
Not as a god to love and worship but a general that'll lead them to victory, it's also the reason as to why Odin says how Kratos does not know true godhood because for most of his life he was a mortal manipulated by gods and fighting against them...
Odin here is referring to the greenery of being a god instead of throwing his power around...
the issue here is that kratos was acknowledged by spartans as a spartan general not as a god. Kratos status itself was raised because he was promoted as GOD OF WAR who was once a spartan so odin was correct when he said kratos does not know godhood
NO! in fact *HELL NO!* anyone who played GoW Ghost of Sparta or even God of War II Knows that in fact *HE WAS THEIR GOD*
a direct line from GoW2:
"when Zeus came the people cried and plead for their god to save them but you did not come"
this is a fallacy and you either don't remember or didn't even played the original games to begin with 🤨
people get this wrong constantly and i have no clue why i assume they havent actually played the originals. but post gow1 Kratos was absolutely worshipped as a god. its stated straight up with no room for interpretation
@@Ronbotnik it pisses me off so much that this always happens in the GoW community man and then this goes to become the type of comment that gets thousands of likes and the truth gets buried in dislikes then
@@Force-Multiplierexactly the scene just showcased how little they know about kratos they have a vague idea of what he did not how or why he did it. Odin knows he killed the Greek pantheon but he doesn’t know that they were all brutally executed. Nor does Odin have any feat to say he’d do any better than the Greeks seeing as a holding back calm kratos could best every single one of them either killing them or beating them into submission. Like truly imagine that kratos walking through the Norse realms I’m sorry he’s killing everyone in his way solo if he wants to anyone he didn’t beat solo is because of plot. Odin wasn’t truly his fight but more so Freya and Atreus, kratos is only there to protect Atreus he straight up told Freya that if she wants to kill Odin he will not stop her that means he has no thought or plan to go kill odin unless odin attacks them which is what happened and he still restrained himself and allowed aid from others even though he could brutally beat odin to a bloody pulp just off what we saw him do to heimdall for pissing him off
The point of telling half truths is to instill doubt. Truths and lies can be confirmed, but half truths are determined as such by the self.
The scene is true to kratoe that he was never worshipped.
But we all know Aphrodite worshipped him until I chose to leave.
Even if we start from the point that he was worshiped in the past, Kratos is ashamed and don't like that past. Being taunted for that also hurt I think. Your "bad" self was worshiped, not your actual "better" self
I always read the scene where Kratos cries at the mural being him crying at the realisation that Faye saw this future and truly believed in him to be a better man/god than he thought himself. Like, he and Atreus had been questioning her motives but knowing that she had actually went against her people and saw him acheiving what he sought- to change his nature. She saw everything and she always knew, even when he doubted her and everyone doubted him. Like that relief and love and vindication from someone you cherush above all others. Finding out that someone saw a path for him where he would become a god revered when others only saw hin as a god killing monster
Fantastic video! Apart from the main point, you also give a great analysis of odin in general. This is prolly the next best thing I've watched related to gow Ragnarok after jacob geller's video (please watch that one if you haven't, you might love it because he draws an interesting parallel between norse and greek gow). I'm genuinely happy that TH-camrs like you exist in gow community who make such nuanced and thoughtful content on the game. Keep up the great work❤
I've always had difficulty explaining characters personalities until they've been directly told to me.
Odin says things so softly and casually (Thor too) that I could never pin down what kind of man he is.
Every time he speaks I had to keep reminding myself of all the damage he's done to the realms.
2:01 "he is villain but does not burn down orphaneges", bro odin literally kidnapped children, murdered them and transfered their souls to ravens to obey him :d
This was a really eye-opening and interesting video, I also was confused about this scene and why this was being brought up, but I never looked at it this way.
When Odin asks if Kratos can imagine the kind of love that is faith it makes me think of Mimir talking about the upbringing of Thor or maybe one of his sons. Imagine having discipline bashed into you. Odin asking if Kratos can imagine that kind of love without him sounding happy about it makes me wonder about how faith would feel. Thinking that I exist, praying for good fortune, and showing some kind of love as long as I do stuff for them. Is this the way Odin learned to see people? After they die he only speaks of them in ways in which he can make use of them. Bargaining with Kratos saying he used self defense, not taking responsibility away for Baldur since he has value, using Heimdall to try to get Atreus to say what Kratos has been doing, saying that they’re square after killing Brok, and thinking about how to turn the scenario to make him look better in Thrud’s eyes after killing Thor. Nothing that includes any amount of care. At most a small amount of appreciation.
I remember thinking as well of odin doing that on purpose, to make krate say”The Spartans!” Just for odin to say”and where are they now?”. Since krate did end sparta in gow 3.
Didn't Zues already kill all the Spartans. Then, the last Spartan afterward died to Kratos himself.
@@sippeon9047Kratos traveled back in time just after Zues killed him at the end of GoW2.
@@TheOtakuKat And then Kratos killed them all again in God of War 3
@@christopherwall2121 You miss my point. Kratos went back in time after his death but before Zeus destoyed Sparta.
@@TheOtakuKat But when Kratos started killing all the gods, Sparta surely perished as well. If they weren't all drowned when he killed Poseidon, then one of the other disasters finished them off.
Your explanation of unconditional worship is spot on! Great video, keep up the good work 😊
I think them killing thor was a massive mistake, would have loved to see him live and become the new king of asgard doing things the right way for once, I hate how they developed his character so well only to kill him, was the only thing I was disapointed on in this game
As someone who played the very first God of War (2005) on the ps2 when I was in middle school in 2006 thanks to my older cousin who was playing it one day at my aunts house for a family birthday party (His sister, my other cousin) him and my other two cousins (His younger brothers, all 3 of them are older than me) shared a room at the time so all of us boys were watching him play until my uncle came in and told us the jumper had arrived; so while everyone else rushed outside, I stood right there still watching him play for the next 45 minutes till he saved the game and said “C’mon Little, let’s go get in the jumper”
That’s where my journey began …
I’ve basically grown up playing the God of War games (1-3, and Chains of Olympus on the psp) when God of War was released in 2018, by this time I was a working man making my own money so I bought a used ps4 and the game from GameStop cause I was a little behind schedule .. And man oh man .. When Kratos broke out the blades, I freaking shouted so loud at 2 in the morning that my grandpa came in my room cause he thought I got hurt 😅
Anyway, the scene in this game when Kratos and Atreus had their goodbye, don’t get me wrong I got emotional no doubt … But when he seen his mural in the back, by the architecture of the buildings I knew it was his story, leaving Greece then the second panel was basically the first game, then the third .. Let me tell you I was pretty drunk at this time, I knew I beat the game and I had like 3 shots back to back, once I seen him painted in gold on a pedestal with everyone around worshipping him I bawled into tears, set down my controller and put my hand over my heart … Thinking back to my own journey with this character and all that he had been through, this ending for him (As far the Norse mythology) was just so earned and perfect, then he started to sniffle/cry and even leaned against the mural which made me go “Oh, man” and bawl even more .
I’m not gonna say if you didn’t cry then you’re not a true fan, I know there’s plenty of reaction channels where someone is catching up on these games and enjoy them AND become fans, and that’s perfectly fine
But I will say this: If you didn’t cry at not only the mural itself of Kratos being a God worthy of worship but seeing him also pretty much cry then you just don’t have the emotional attachment as I do actually growing up playing these games .. In 3 years 2006 will have been 20 years ago (Holy shit I’m old) so for people who started their journey earlier this year or even back in 2018, there’s no comparison . K I’m done, be safe out there wherever you are in the world TH-cam community, and thank you Tactical Bacon for this video !
I do always love the "you may meet the god I once was" moment
cause when odin replies "and what kind of god is that?" I feel like hes risking a LOT poking at kratos considering the answer to that question is "greece isnt there anymore, guy who is trying to avoid the destruction of his realm. That kind"
The kind that puts pantheons to rest
we're still talking about the greek God of war thousands of years later, people other than sparta absolutely worshipped Ares though the spartans were the only ones to build temples to Phobos the greek God of fear and loss.
I think the reason those words from Odin strike so deep are that Kratos looking back probably wishes he could have been the kind of diety he was at the end of GOW:R that he was back then.
He brought immense ruin across the greek world regardless of the whole war with the pantheon and that is clearly weighing heavily on him in the norse games as he tries to ensure his son will be a better man.
BUt Odin in the end cant fully use that against Kratos because of the afformentioned experiences dealing with people like Ares, Athena and Zues manipulating him and his focus on geting Aetreus back safely that he can shrug off Odins attempts to do so.
I think a slightly closer interpretation is that Kratos knows that he was worshipped in the past, but only for the atrocities that he regrets. And he doesn't see a future in which he could be worshipped again, especially for anything other than war.
5:00 the spartans have worshiped Kratos,in ghost of sparta the spartans take down Ares' statue in front of his temple to put one of Kratos.I remember the soldier saying after the statue of Ares was taken down:''All hail lord Kratos,the god of war''
Surely thats not the only time somebody worshiped him
If you saw the last Spartan, or the one who told the sisters of fate nothing, they worship Kratos.
Kratos didn't one day just wake up and choose violence to the Gods.
The Gods were Petty is they had been with countless mortals.
This one was half God...
It cost them...
Had any of them kept their word. His rampage would have stopped long ago!
The Gods used Kratos for years but I think the no return point was when Kratos found out what the Gods did to his mother and brother. Kidnapping Deimos was way before Kratos was ever actually a danger to the Gods so they set up in motion the events that destroyed them by trying to stop the prophecy of them being destroyed.
As I was playing the end game content Kratos said it was the fact that he no longer had the ash skin and he thought that was a path lost to him.
Even though I do feel gowr did lose a lot of it’s nuance compared to 2018. I must say when they leaned into it in certain scenes it’s incredible & what I loved most abt gow. The tension & nuance is the house scene is a good example
Odin telling Kratos that he hasn’t been worshipped and knows nothing of godhood has so many layers to it. On the surface, the Aesir don’t really know much about what exactly happened to Olympus beyond a Godkiller destroying the Greek pantheon, so it’s likely that Odin truly believes that Kratos has never been worshipped or loved.
Kratos has a noticeable reaction to the line, and grows angrier as he reflects on killing his last Spartan (people forget that it was a huge drive for his vengeance too). Mimir even mentions afterwards that “he’s just trying to get in your head” since it’s likely he knows about that too
Not only that Hearing that his homeland Sparta was destroying by Zeus was the nitro of his vengeance as well.
It’s like what Mimer said: “if he tells you snow is white, he’s lying!”
HEAVILY disagree that you're viewing something objectively when you view it for the first time. its like the exact opposite of that. unless you're given something to watch or read or review with no prior knowledge at all theres obviously going to be something influencing you when you view something for the 1st time. it isnt until you see something fully and multiple times can you really get everything about the situation. for example, theres no way to fully review thors actions when he meets kratos for the 1st time until you realize what he's going through later on in the game. to say thats objective is missing the mark completely
This video is a great reminder as to why Ragnarok is a narrative masterpiece!
Run away while you still have the chance!!!!(the haters are coming)
Here is some of my points regarding the points made in this video:
1.) Odin uses Thor has his hammer to any nail (problem) that he has. While he used Baldr as his hound dog to track down things of interest.
2.) Odin knows Kratos' past so he wanted to sugar coat his agenda while talking to him but it went to the point that Odin was pointing out his divine status due to the lack of people that worship Kratos (detachment of his past because he knew that his past is always going to haunt him)
3.) The thing about the part with "the people would still worship the Gods" part of the video. I am a pagan and I am a historian too. Yes, when there was a drought or famine you would still call upon the deities to help out but at the same time they would act on those prayers too. If there was a drought, they would pray to Demeter to help with the crops and for Zeus to bring rain while they work in the fields. That or if you want to be realistic in how Ancient Greece was like they would have slave labor in the major city-states like Athens and Sparta.
4.) "Only the Spartans worshipped Kratos as the God of War", given what we know about the Ares cult worship around the cities of Greece and several in the Asia Minor. I would assume it would be the same for Kratos. Ares was a figure that was noted to be favored by the Spartans as their patron deity of that city-state but the Scythians also gave offerings to Ares in blood offerings. They worshipped him in Crete as well. So, I assume that Kratos when he was deified that he filled the role their patron deity of said areas that Ares once had (before the whole Greece being under water type of deal lol)
5.) Apotheosis or deifying after death. Hercules did it. Asclepius did it. And other demigods (Kratos is a demigod in the series as well due to his mother was human and his father is well... Zeus). The Spartans started praying to Kratos because they knew that the role was switched from Ares to him. Ancient Greece is HUGE on doing oral story telling. I bet they (the humans in The God of War series) were telling tales of what happened and why they are painting Kratos on the vases and other depictions of him on their stuff.
6.) I think with the part of Kratos didn't see it as worship or anything like that because Kratos still hates the fact that he is a God (meaning that he hates that he is one because that comes from Zeus then it replays the memories of his past). The story arc of him telling Atreus that he was part God in the first game was because Kratos wanted to hide that fact from him because his distaste for Gods in general and his distrust when dealing with them. He didn't want him (Atreus) to end up like the Gods that he once killed in his past. Thus, the whole thing with "Be better" was talked about throughout the first game through examples of Baldr or Kratos telling his past or etc. That is one of the core themes through both games where Kratos wants Atreus to be not a God but better than them.
AND this was an amazing video!!
I kinda wish Thor had a more explicit redemption moment, that could've morphed into a duo of Him and Kratos against Odin
“Striking a brick wall in just the right spot, to make a crack.” Bars.
Haven't even started watching the video but I'm happy someone made a video of this topic I feel when Kratos confronts Odin and Odin accuses Kratos of being a self-serving brute of a God with no idea of what it means to have people in need of godly intervention call upon him and it really registered with me because that's exactly what Kratos was a cruel self serving brute with no care in the world about how he hurts anyone or anything in his desires.
You should work with The Vile Eye doing an Analyzing Evil video on both Thor and Odin.
A year late but you did indeed open my eyes to this.
In my view, I always saw that moment at the end of the game as being more about what the realms would think of Kratos when it was all over. I feel like a huge portion of this game is Kratos trying to be better "Than the god I once was". He even has to extend severely out of this comfort zone to convince Thor that they can no longer be destroyers, but Ragnarok is absolutely a moment of destruction and almost nothing else. For all of this to be over and for the people to see him as a golden figure, a true god to be worshipped, it proves that Kratos has not slipped and become the man he tried to leave behind in Greece, but rather has carved for himself a new life and a new meaning. He may be a God of War, but he is no longer a God of Destruction.
i really like the opening with odin and thor and kratos sitting at the table. So much going on with body language that you completely miss out just freaking out omg thor and kratos about to fight. Showing the cracks between thor and odin immediately and how angry thor looks at odin talking about his useless kids. And odin taunting him with the drinks while we know he is trying to quit and be better for thrud. at some moments thor has to even look away and collect himself. I also like the always ready for dad moment kratos does with his hand always going for the axe on the table any time odin approches or mentions atreus then when he realizes there is no threat his hand always retreats slowly. So many little details going on i love it.
Small correction. Kratos almost fell for odin’s deal at the start he even says as much. Odin then brought up freya which is why Kratos denied the deal cause she saved Artreus’s life.
He could have just asked Odin not to harm Freya
@@hurricane7727 The implication odin gives is that he would deal with her. This could mean all sorts of things but from the first game kratos has saw how odin deals with enemies. Look at mimir and how they found him. Kratos is already distrustful of odin from the people he has spoke to and states he would not find it wise to side with freyas ex husband even though he was tempted by the offer in the in game notes.
@@DirtyStinky It would have Bought him more Time plus His Sons Life was on the Line At that Moment
@@hurricane7727 His sons life was not on the line. This was the beginning of the game when artreus was with him.
@@DirtyStinky He Could have Been Killed By Thor if Odin Ordered it after Kratos refused the Deal or Odin Could Killed His Son Himself after Kratos Was Attacked by Thor.
I want to explain an idea of mine about the Valhalla DLC, so spoilers after the jump.
In the final scene, where Kratos finally takes a seat on the throne...I absolutely would have loved it if the ashes on his skin flaked away and returned him to his original skin color. Those ashes have always been (to me, at least) a symbol of his guilt and rage. A constant reminder that he killed his family, and the source of his moniker as the Ghost of Sparta.
But Kratos isn't the Ghost of Sparta anymore, nor is he the rage-filled monster he used to be. He's learned graciousness, restraint, humility, acceptance, and new forms of love. The love of a father, and a brother, and a friend. I think losing the ashes would have been a powerful metaphor for Kratos' decision to finally come to terms with his past, with himself, and his readiness to face his future.
Faye's wish for her husband was for him to achieve what he wanted. To no longer been seen as a monster. She worked hard to change his fate from what her people predicted but more so what he had been tossed into by others and to help him heal from all the trauma he endured. Now it is true, he has never had a true worship because of what tyoe of god he is. What he DOESN'T know is that Greece is not only not destroyed but the urn in Tyr's temple showed he is in fact still worshipped. The statue at the end was Faye's gift to him. Like she said if he opened his heart to the world he would find all he needed when she was gone. He did as she asked, he showed he had become a better god and man when he saved the Midgardians because they were inocent in the fight and showed them what a god that cares looks like while ODIN showed them what crap gods were like so of course they love him
Wow, the mosaic of Dionisus, I see it regularly, I work as a tourist guide, and seeing it in your video is amazing. It's one of the most well preserved mosaics in Greece in the ancient city of Dion. At the foothills of mount Olympus. Amazing piece of art.
If they ment worshiped on a wide scale then they should've said that instead they say has ANYONE ever worshiped you or prayed to you? Yes he has had worshipers and the spartans did love him but what your talking about is wide scale worshiped I think they shouldve worded this differently by saying has multiple cities ever worshiped and looked up to you or something along those lines
And another reason why this scene bothers me is because the new players who have never played the greek games will think Kratos has never had worshipers or loved by anyone and that further feeds into the greek Kratos is a one note character with no depth and was angry for no reason lie that's been spread
@@HouseofRedWineI think if that were the case, it’s not the games fault. And I think bacon more so meant that the worshipping krate got was not really traditional worshipping, more of a war cry more than anything(not 100 percent true giving it more thought, but this conversation ain’t black and white like bacon said).
@@Omar8181 I'm not blaming bacon I'm blaming the writers if what they ment was wide scale worship then they should've worded what Odin said differently
@@Omar8181exactly
Hi Bacon!
This was a good video. I agree with you.
This is a great video it made me want to play ragnarok again
Notice how Odin with his outer coat looks like a mob boss.
I love the God of War series. It is such a good set of games. The story overall is amazing!
Many ancient cultures did in fact have a give and take mentality to worship.
They believed the gods didn't really favor anyone by default. The closest might be patrons deities that people from a place strongly identified with, but it was never the same as in abrahamic faiths.
Instead you asked for favors or boons, promising something in return.
"Help me win and I'll sacrifice 100 goats."
"Accept this offering and protect my wife during labor."
"Protect our city and we will make a temple for you."
The static and continual reverence and worship of a primary deity is not inherent to religion in general, rather a feature of certain places, times, and culture.
The characterization of Kratos as the God of War in GoW II is very much in line with how Ares would have been regarded, or even more accurately: Kratos' original plea to Ares for power is just a supernatural telling of EXACTLY how the ancient Greeks viewed their relationship with the gods.
Odin is also making assumptions about Kratos, who he hardly knows. Kratos stays silent because he has nothing to prove to him.
NOBODY worships out of faith...they worship for the promise of eternal peace in heaven...a life after death...smh
Kratos is worshipped by the players.
What was the point of the retcon of Kratos being a "God" when he killed everyone in GOW3? So Odin sort of read my thoughts like "hey you're not a God."
Tactical bacon!!!! I lost this channel months ago And been feeling a bit lost in youtube
This and Extreme Zesty are my favorite GoWar tubers!
I believe the quote "Don't be sorry, be better" is the same quote that was told to him during his inhumane training regiment in Sparta. Be better or die inferior, there is no place for apologies, no place for mistakes, which was the only training Kratos ever got as a kid and used it to Atreus, failing to understand that it wasn't love or affection because simply he knew none. Which is why later on when Atreus does succeed Kratos commends him and goes easier on him.
I personally think Sparta actually loved kratos not just because he's the new god of war but because he fought for them and beside them before he became a god basically they were like a family in a sense and I also think kratos looking at the Mural to see that he's actually a hero and no longer a monster like everyone been calling him sense the beginning of the franchise 😅 but great video
“ if he tells you snow is white, he’s lying”
-Mimir
TBP’s concept of pagan worship has been distorted by the Judeo-Christian understanding of worship. In the Greek mythological context, the gods are very much looked at as objects of fear. Their interaction with the world of mortals comes insofar as mortal lives mean little to them and can be useful for their own ends. People offer sacrifices to the gods to appease them, to stave off their wrath and anger or to gain their protection or a boon. They represent the very order of nature, and serve as an explanation for chaos. When the world seems to be ordered, the gods have been appeased. When chaos ensues, there has been disruption on Olympus. It’s not an unconditional devotion. Unconditional love is a Christian concept from the God who loves his creation because He *is* love. I haven’t studied Norse mythology as much so I can’t say for sure, but I highly doubt Norse adoration for Odin or other Norse gods comes from some sense of unconditional love on behalf of its believers. I’m fairly certain it would parallel the Greek mythos far more than Christian theology.
9:15 love the illustration right there
That makes sense and yeah that's exactly what Odin would try and do, i love little things like that despite my biased takes on both Norse GOWs. These takes being, mediocre games, a few good qualities
This might be a consequence of people not believing that God of War was Mature until 2018... or the like.
I gotta say, man. I really appreciate you and your videos, especially on my boy Kratos here. You've helped me appreciate a character I grew up with more than I think I would have otherwise and that's why he's one of my favorites now too. I always thought he was misunderstood, but you've helped put that into words and have helped people see that too. Hope you're well, man.
Kratos: *Exists*
Every God in creation: "Screw him over, and make him regret being born..."
Kratos: *Proceeds to wreck everything they spent millennia building up in a matter of minutes*
Every God in Creation: ( ° ~ ° )
Every god in creation: wow I can’t believe you did that. What a fucking asshole😂
Wait, people were actually bitching about that? I never played the game, i just watched a long play last year while i was out with Covid for a week. I've seen a majority of what that game has, and i especially liked that one scene. I figured that out right away, Kratos was "worshipped" but he was never *loved* by his disciples, and that's another point that Odin tries to drive into Kratos during that scene. It was so powerful
That was a nice bit about religious people. Very balanced.
I feel like him crying at the mural was more of him thinking of Fate and how no matter what he was she always saw him as more and didn’t judge him and knew he was a good person
2:58 Probably, but he did mention in the codex pages why he said no to Odin from the start, it was because of Freya and if it weren't for Freya he would've said yes.
WOw I never realized this about Kratos. Good video
I think this is accurate, I remember seeing an OSP Detail Diatribe that mentions these exact points. So you’re far from the only one who thinks this.
One of the most rewarding interactions of this game is watching Kratos refuse to dance to Odin's tune. I think the real revelation here is that Odin conflates love with worship. To him, that's all love is. But unlike love, worship isn't returned. So while his words may get under Kratos' skin a little, he reveals how much Kratos has gotten under his skin. Because he's so desperately trying to best Kratos by the only measure he knows, "I'm more worshipped than you."
But Kratos has already figured out how empty it is to be worshiped. The joy of love isn't in how much you are loved, but in how much you love. And I thought this interaction only solidified Kratos' determination to love Atreus all the more, not to punish him for insubordination, but to try harder to show his love and support. Odin's idea of fatherhood is nothing but a demand for obedience. His family serves as terrible warning of where that kind of "love" leads. I think Kratos learns a lot from that example. "Don't be Odin" is the lesson of the game. And seeing through the false value of worship is part of that. It's not love at all. Odin, who loves no one, can never see that. It's loving, not being loved, that nourishes. Odin's bottomless hunger for more worship is like his hunger for more power, more knowledge. It'll never fill him up, because it's not feeding anything alive, just empty ego.
the only time Odin was ever truly honest is sadly the moment he killed Brok
Thing to add on, I took him getting emotional at the end as him realizing Faye's prediction and the personal meaning behind it. The game makes a point that prophecy isn't much more than "this is the kind of person you are, so this is what will happen", and everyone had a more "outdated" viewpoint of Kratos from his Ghost of Sparta days, so their "prophecy" saw his death. Faye, however, actually knew him. She knew what he was, what he would be, she knew him more than he knew himself, and that final mural showed it. The whole journey, Kratos doubts himself in multiple ways, but she knew the good in him and the God he would be. The final mural is, through everything he'd been through, almost like her being a cheeky partner. "See, I knew you could do it", and Kratos sees that she believed in him this whole time, even when it felt like no one else did.
I wish they split ragnarok into two games
1st part goes all the way up to when this part (0:43) happens and the 2nd part being ragnarok itself
this way we get to experience all the new characters much more, like thor, heimdall, and odin
it wouldve been so cool to see odin manipulate kratos to the point that kratos even starts to doubt himself
and this way the ragnarok ending/part of the game isnt rushed into 30 minutes with two boss fights
I don't believe the people now worship Kratos as some kind of "God of Peace" in mural. The last panel simply shows the people revereing him. It is he who was this prophetic "champion" not Atreus.
"Return my son, or you may meet the God I once was" has to be the hardest quote in any game ever !!