Zeus. Because of how poetic it is. Zeus, fearing that he would suffer the same fate as his own father, set into motion events that would lead to his downfall and destruction of everything he built. The same fate Cronos suffered.
@@danialyousaf6456yes and no Odin caused everyone around him to want him dead while Zeus had the entire Greek world on his side besides the very few characters that help kratos
You know... that's a good example, Tai Lung is physically stronger than Shen, but Shen still defends himself with his weapons but excels in his ability to mentally damage his opponent, or well, the protagonist.
Funny enough, even in terms of mental threat, zeus was there as well and even more especially when he wasnt infected with the evils whereas odin was so impatient and a piss ass that even a dwarf manages to expose him.
@@tc-channelhobby4051 Zeus was at most involved in the death of Kratos' mother and in taking his brother when he was little, although he gave the order, the one who did leave him with the trauma was Ares.
@@martinc8965 all of this happened after he was infected with the evils, that's where he began to become erratic and why his actions began to waver and were questionable especially in ghost of Sparta and finally becoming full circle in god of war 2. And yeah, ares is the one who gave him the most trauma along with the prophecy and the evils infecting him even though he tried to fight back against as shown in god of war 3 through Athena.
I think Odin is intimidating in the way an old mob boss is intimidating. You're not afraid because he himself scares you, but rather because you know the power and authority he has, and that if he wants you dead then you are dead.
I like how they gave us glimpses here and there of how truly brutal and powerful Odin really is beyond his old man facade. It’s much like when, in movies, the mafia boss suddenly snaps with incredible displays of violence that make you go, "Yep, he's the boss for a reason." It doesn't happen all the time, and that's the clever part because it stands out when it does. Remember how he casually lifted and threw Mjölnir as if it were paper into Thrud, or how fast and hard he threw Atreus in wolf form after biting him. Odin never reveals the true extent of his power, he's so much more than he lets on.
If I can use an action movie comparison, I'd say Zeus is a Commando-style villain. Beefy, Brutish, with some eloquent, memorable lines to make up for the fact that little strategy is needed to combat him. Meanwhile, Odin is a Die Hard villain. Not the most physically imposing character, but uses cunning and mind games to get into the hero's head. They are both a lot of fun, but at the end of the day, which one you prefer is down to your personal preference.
I've always seen Zeus as a tyrannical king and Odin as a corrupt mob boss. Zeus is extremely power-hungry and rules over his subjects with an iron fist, while Odin is more calm for the most part and often uses calculated trickery to get his way. Both archetypes are threatening in their own way and make for compelling villains as long as they're written and presented well, which both are in my opinion. They really are two sides of the same coin. But when it comes to which you like more, at the end of the day, it's all a matter of preference like you said.
In this way i find ODIN far more frigthening than Zeus.. while the late is a Tyrant who rule for the sake of ruling, of being superior than everything but Odin is curiosity.... His thirst for knowledge and control run so deep that he will kill , use and torture anyone that he can
I think the reason we would likr Zeus more, is because hes Kratos Villain, while Odin is Loki's villain. While we play as Kratos in the norse games, the story really revolves around Odin. Plus, if Im honest, Zeus was more fun to fight against.
Odin needed one more phase. If there was just a battle phase where he rides Sleipnir during the fight, it might have been epic. It's weird that the greatest fight in the game was one in the opening chapters of Ragnarok (first battle between Kratos and Thor).
@@thebukojoeplays Absolutely love ragnarok as a whole but the endgame left a lot to be desired, the final fights with thor and odin were a little underwhelming, they needed way more phases and locations
@@mydayzclips13 exactly it needed to be more like baldurs endfight as much as i like the game that is a very relevant criticism, zeus's fight had three epix phases, whereas thor only gets one and stays on the same location they should have been flying around like the first fight, fighting over jormungandar or some thing
If I'm being honest with you, when it comes to the Norse games, Baldur is far more interesting and far more challenging antagonist then Odin. His character from the moment he was introduced until his death was so memorable, his backstory, appearance, dialogue, voice, etc... it's all so good. He's this small but tough cookie and the final boss had more memorable and cool phases then Odin. It's always a treat whenever he shows up
The fault with ragnarok as a whole (would like to mention that Ragnarök is still my favourite GoW game), is that it was for the most part Marvelized. If it had the same writing style as GoW 2018 or prior entres of the franchise for the most part, it would without a doubt been so much better than Zeus (imo). Like should have been so much darker as its the end of the world we are talking about. Look at GoW 3. Now i dont mean everything should be gore-porn but there could have been more at stake, like Atreus being tortured by Freya or something. That is why i wished we would have gotten a trilogy instead of two games and they could've been named God Of War, Fimbulvetr/Fimbulvinter, then Ragnarök. Or at least should have gotten a DLC for GoW 2018 called Fimbulvetr/Fimbulwinter, then GoW Ragnarök, and Valhalla.
Odin was mid... His power was talking 😂😂 they did Odin wrong... He was supposed to be a saruman type of carachter, yet, he was just an old man that wanted a mask...
@@supergirlvideoclips894 and a fairly stereotypical one, lots of muscle, little brain at least in what was seen in Gow 3, although well in that game everyone is an idiot. But Zeus is over the top
@@supergirlvideoclips894 I was referring to the aura or vibes they both gave off. Odin seemed more human. Zeus had a supernatural presence to him. Odin (and I guess all the Norse gods) felt more...primitive???
Great video, man. I feel like both were the best in what categories of villains they were. Zeus was a tyrant set on securing his power and authority over others through physical intimidation. While Odin was a master manipulator who was able to pose as a casual old man and create schemes to play all sides. Although Zeus’s boss fight was better, both were perfectly executed for what villains they were meant to be.
There's a huge mistake in your video - introduction Zeus made kratos to give in all his power to the blade. After that , there's no match for kratos to go toe to toe against Zeus. The point could have been gone to zeus
@@blackmage665 Zeus could have turned giant and done this himself. I think he didn’t expect Kratos to get hit due to his pride as he ignored the statue, but him coming face to face with Kratos was like a victory lap. It was done just to embarrass him at that point in front of Kratos’s loyal soldiers. As for the blade, it was basically like stealing candy from a baby, even more so after Kratos got crushed by the statue. But he didn’t need to wait for that to happen, it would have been easy to end Kratos without any god powers
@@blackmage665 Kratos didn’t know Zeus was his enemy at that point, he could have just shown up and pretended to be on Kratos’ side and then killed him without a fight
It’s interesting, Zeus is what I valued most in my villains when I was younger, and Odin is what I value now. I would still think both are great, just completely different. Also, Kratos being Goldberg is a chef’s kiss moment.
I'm glad I found this channel, by far the most fair and good faith video I've seen when comparing the old games with the new games, lots of good arguments for both Zeus and Odin, and I feel mostly the same way. I like them both as characters and I think they both serve their purpose as antagonists of two different sagas really well, with their intended purpose being realized well. I don't think either one is objectively better than the other, and which one you like more as a villain depends on personal taste, which is okay.
99.9k!! Early congrats, your stuff got me through a hospital stay due to a fire. I love zoning in on "deep-dives" related to creation, and your stuff always hits the spot.
Another aspect of odins character design is that his tattoos are imbued with the magic of his ravens, or vice versa. In his intro when he called back his ravens they became his forearm tattoos. Every other time, i believe, we see him he doesnt have the tattoos so his ravens are out watching. A neat little detail for us since other people also have tattoos imbued with magic. Or the tattoos are a vessel for the magic to travel through idk. We also saw baldurs tattoos light up whenever his curse was lifted. Almost everyone in 2018 and ragnarok has tattoos. To what degree they are fashion or magic i dont know.
I think Odin had more depth as a character. Zeus personality wise is mostly just a bully he doesn’t really display intelligence at all. But he has some cool powers and a cool boss fight. But Odin has everything else so I think Odin is the better villain. That’s just my opinion
No intelligence? He tricked kratos into giving up his god hood and kill him, and even planned the death of his families before, like killing deimos was part of his plan. Odin also wasn't super smart. What he did is just disguising himself as tyr, other than that he acts like an angry brute
@@mihaimercenarul7467 You do not need to be smart to plan things like that when you're the most powerful (both in magically and politically) being in your realm. -_-
@mihaimercenarul7467 kratos being manipulated in the Greek games has more to do with him being dumb and blinded by revenge and nightmares instead of zues being really ALL that intelligent. Zues would find it much harder to manipulate norse kratos
Zeus was NOT a good person even before Kratos opening Pandora's box , cuz Kratos served the Gods for 10 years in GoW 1 , he sent his goon Ares to kill the marked boy from sparta , he cursed his mother so she coulnt tell him the trug and he KNEW Kratos was his son and he didnt do a SINGLE good thing about him ! And all of thay BEFORE Pandora's Boxx was opened
Yeah, and also many of the gods had that habit of sending the hordes of unthinkable monsters loose just so they can slaughter the regular people en masse. Zeus did that, Ares and Poseidon did that, Hypnos did that (that's practically the first thing he did after Helios was gone).
@@Skarrier Yeah , Zeus just DID not want to get the family treatment from his own son cuz he would be dead as the same went with him and his father Cronos but the THING IS Kratos did not even KNOW his father was Zeus so why was Zeus so afraid ? And after GoW 1 he was even more afraid and even more a dumbass
I just wrote the same. And the worst thing is that he points out every horrible thing Zeus did to Kratos earlier in the same video I thougt the "Menasing" point was a pity point for Zeus. But it seems Odin was the one in need of pity points so he wouldn't lose by a landslide
yes the gods crushed anyone that offended them slightly, i mean it's not different in nordic gow, you insult thor even slightly and he would take your life. but the whole pandoras chest thing, just amplified the paranoia zeus had in him, to the nth degree.
I think the point against zues about not knowing what to do after Kratos gets the blade of Olympus can be remedied by the speech the sister of fate has about giving Kratos and even zues all they have and being able to undo it, so under zues's order you could say they tugged Kratos string of fate making the statue slap him into a pancake
Zeus is definitely more epic as the final boss. I do find more appeal in Odin’s character as time goes on. Plus his presence is really felt in the lore through out ever since 2018. Show how he’s such a menace to the realms. The first GoW game is mainly about Ares and almost no Zeus at all. In that point I prefer the norse side more.
Great video! I agree with all of your main points and scoring system, and I'll comment on two additional points: - Odin's fight really felt like an afterthought. Baldur, Zeus, and Thor all had encounters that showcased their power which was elevated after their first encounter with Kratos. While a direct confrontation with Odin is conceptually unfitting in the narrative of the game, a few glimpses at Odin's raw power through Atreus's eyes would have been great. The final fight was also severly lacking mechanically. Sure, he had a variety of spells and AoE attacks, but he had no defining feature outside of having combined most attacks you'd have encountered with standard enemies. What if we were stripped of various weapons during the fight and unable to harm him (say, he has an Ice shield and we only have the Leviathan axe at that time), making us rely on Atreus to break his shield so that we may go to town on him? What if he brought minor Norse gods out of nowhere (say they are oblivious to Odin's schemes or uncaring of them) for an impromptu 2v1, putting them in harm's way while he regenerates health? Some cinematic sections with some QTEs and grandiose moments (say, he's mortally wounded by Garm/Genrir, who originally kills Odin in the myths) would have also been welcome. - Zeus' character needed to be a big brute so that we could emphatize with the brute who was our protagonist, but the "Hope-Fear" angle killed his character. Keeping his brutish, egoitistical, raw power qualities, maybe a fear that his offspring & underlings may dethrone him in a similar way that he did to Cronos in a vicious cycle would be more than enough motivation for him to do the things he did. In a way, Zeus would be a parallel to Kratos's views on family, bloodshed, and upholding the tyranny of the gods. The fear "entity" is thus so frustrating because it not only stripped Zeus of his agency as is mentioned in the video, it was also strictly unnecessary from a narrative perspective because it made it bloated. Have a great day everyone!
It took everything to beat Zeus (Zoooos!) including acquiring power from the strongest beings in Greek myth like literal Titans, the Sisters of Fate, Poseidon, Hades etc. With Odin meanwhile, it felt his boss fight was more of an after credits scene. The real star of the show was the Thor fights.
Zeus is a better villain, but Odin is a better character. Zeus is exactly the type of Bondian sociopath we want in a villain. he's big, he's scary, even when he's in disguise or trying to act nice, we know it's an act. and when we finally get to fight him, it's big, it's grandiose, it's everything someone could want in an end-game boss battle But Odin. We know who Odin is. in the 2018 game, we hear all about him, how he slaughtered entire races and committed atrocities in the name of knowledge. Then, in Ragnarok, we meet him. And we like him. He's charming and witty, he's just some kind old man who happens to be surrounded by jerks. because that's what he wants us to see. Because he's not like Zeus. Zeus just kills people and calls it a day, but Odin? why would he do that, once your dead, you can't give him any more stuff. of course, after he has what he wants, well, RIP to my man Brok
The design of Zeus is that way because he is from Greece, where people wore those type of clothes. Not to mention that god of war 1-3 happens in ancient Greece. While god of war 2018 and ragnarok are more modern.
Are you saying the clothes are more modern? If so ur very wrong I've never seen people wear clothing like that, but if not then I have no idea what else ur trying to say.
Zeus is definitely more menacing than Odin, in gow 3 when you reach the top of the mountain at the start he is just standing there and when you are finished stating your bs he sends you from the top of the mountain Olympus to the bottom of the Underworld with a single lightning
I think where Odin works as far as introduction is while this is the first time you meet him, you hear stories about him in the previous game. It paints a decent picture and is accurate to when you meet him.
I wasn’t the biggest fan of Odin’s design at first but it grew on me, I understand why they chose it though, they had to make it match the prophecy mural and they couldn’t make him look too devious otherwise it wouldn’t make sense for Atreus to trust him.
I kinda feel like you skewed the "moment" part in Zeus' favor to make Zeus win, because you love GoW3. His whole thing as Tyr and every single appearance of Odin in person usually means you have to pay double the attention to catch his manipulations, meanwhile in Zeus' case it's usually like "Oh, the boss you can't beat yet is here, great. next scene please.". Also the "connection to the protagonist" part is literally just there to give Zeus a point. MC's father vs the dude we don't even see for a whole game, like come on.
Prime GoW content from TBP as usual. Happy early 100K, and personally due to getting into God of War through Ragnarok i personally enjoy Odin as a character more through my experience but I can definitely see where Zeus is better to some if not most.
Actually, when you mentioned the prophecies it reminded me that the prophecy about Zeus's death makes no sense, the fates are very much against the death of Zeus in GOW2 yet all prophecies come for the fates, and the only way that the prophecy came to fruition is by the death of the fates, which makes no sense.
Ok, the Menace/Power part is SO biased. You completely ignored every other feats attributed to Odin in both 2018 and Ragnarok. Lets start with 2018, theres the Black Breath which a spell casted by Odin that is so strong that no other magic aside from the Bifrost can bypass it. And then there's the spell that binds Freya to Midgard which involved him screwing with the Roots of Yggdrassil itself ! Those are NOT small feats. Also, are you seriously saying Zeus can beat both Odin and Thor ? Now that's just overwanking BS. In the Journal, Kratos himself stated that Thor has the *STRONGEST PUNCHES hes ever felt !* And you gotta remember that Kratos is a Greek God, and the devs has confirmed that Greek Gods get stronger the older they age. Meaning the current Kratos is at his strongest, and yet he says Thor's punches are the hardest, meaning Thor's raw strength alone already vastly overpowers Zeus. And Odin ? Odin straight up required *3 gods* to team up on him to finally defeat him. Oh here comes the Kratonks Fanboys saying "kRAtoS iS hOLdiNG bACk". Come on, USE LOGIC, people ! Why would Kratos even hold back ? There is absolutely no reason for Kratos to be holding back against Odin ! Sure, he may not be the raging monster that he used to be. But that doesn't mean he isn't using full strength, he's just more controlled and composed. And yet he still needed the help of his son and Freya to take down Odin, that fact alone makes him way stronger than Zeus. Also, the Boss Fight segment is also Biased AF. You straight up says Odin didn't get the upperhand at 20:26 which is BS. You literally ignores the fact that Odin had Kratos and Atreus binded and couldn't move at all ! During the end of phase one. Which also proves why I say Kratos couldn't be holding back, because he is literally being binded by magic, he should be using all of his might to break free ! But as we can see, he couldn't. Kratos and Atreus would've lost there and then if it weren't for Freya coming in clutch bailing them out of that predicament. So who said Odin didn't get the upperhand during his boss fight, huh ? Play the boss fight again and PAY ATTENTION.
one more thing you didnt go into. Odin has a visible life bar. While its not bad on its own, it hurt the pace of the fight if the player can see they are close enought to win that just rushing the boss is viable. Meanwhile not having it forces the player to focus their atention on their life and what the boss is doing
I may be kinda late on this, but I've heard a point made in this video from elsewhere and I'd like to point out a small misconception people make about Ragnarok's opening scene with Odin. Based on the cutscene alone, Kratos seeing right through Odin's initial lies and attempts at "peace" was something that took no consideration -- something he was totally unconvinced by before Odin even walked in. However, looking at the Kratos codex entry for Odin (which he himself wrote), the choice was a bit more layered and could have potentially gone the other way if Mimir wasn't there or if Odin didn't bring up Freya. To quote what I'm talking about for reference: "I must note that he offered a deal of peace for our inaction. If I did not have better counsel, I would have been tempted to take it. His threat to Freya made this impossible. She may persist as a danger, but to ally against her with her former husband is... unacceptable". Not a major thing, and still a great video, just something I've seen pop up in more than one GoW Ragnarok video.
Okay, so let's see. Introduction goes to Zeus. That "flaw" you mention is literally bs overanalyzation. You could apply that logic to everything media, and if you did, then everything would be "flawed" in some obscure way, which is actually true but we just overlook small details. 13:35 Villain Aura Motivation goes to Zeus imo. I love the concept of the cycle where Cronos was destined to be defeated by Zeus, and now Zeus by Kratos and that's why he fears him so much. Odin's motivation is actually really good, but it unfortunately goes nowhere. They never explain what the rift actually was. They never try to maybe fix the mask to take a peek inside. This makes Odin have better "Goals" but Zeus better motivation Bossfight you've got to excuse me but it goes to Odin. He has way more mechanical depth than Zeus does. While Zeus has got more spectacle, I feel like gameplay ultimately still takes the advantage here. Zeus also has the garbage 2.5d phase so that lowers him a bit too. Also who tf wants to fight the final boss as Atreus?? You are just coping man. Ultimately, as a villain, Zeus wins Low difficulty. And responding to what you said in the end, Odin is a decent side character, but he's awful as a villain. He's boring, and you aren't eagerly waiting for his next appearance ever. He has 0 villain aura. And don't even get me started on how his "wrath" at the end it looks like he's just throwing a tantrum.
My God..... It's about the happen, I love this feeling. The feeling of watching a channel bloom into the 100k , reminds me of the realjim and after breakfast, they grow up so fast.
A case has to be said that Odin’s menacing and anticipation was done so well in the first version of Norse God of War. Even his reveal was something to behold. His effects to the world from the spirits, Mimir etc was a good setup for what’s to come. But I think Cory’s decision to visually introduce him in the game that he also dies causes some pace issues which mostly causes Odin to not compete with Zeus in the cases Zeus won. But yeah, great video
13:12 Thing is, when you take the psychological perspective, that ancient greek gods were more like the embodiment of concepts, than actual people, you'll start to understand, that this portrayal of Zeus is *remains on point.* Zeus is the embodiment of power - authoritarian power, basically *rulership* with all it's flaws and duties. Him _demanding_ things and using excessive force, when verbal commands proofed unsufficient, just goes along with what his mythological counterpart would do.
I didn't even get to the video content. I subscribed for the Bacon Intro, alone. Lol! Great video, thank you. Keep 'em comin' and have a great night, everyone.
One thing I do love about this comparison is that the categories they seemed to win was important for what they're games were and the story they were telling.
To me Odin was the overall better character. He just had so many layers. He was genius, manipulative, he absolutely stole the game for me and easily one of the best villains in the series! His strength was in his intellect and the way he would use people to get what he wanted was great. Zeus I would definitely give the boss fight too but Odin was a character was better for me
The “glaring flaw” in zeus’ introduction pretty much gets cleared up by the introduction of the sisters of fate later. Zeus could have been told by them what would happen so Zeus felt confident in what he was doing. And if that isn’t the case, kratos was mortal by the end of his battle. Hand crushing him or not, Zeus could still outpace his mortal body and take the blade back with ease.
In some ways, both Zeus and Odin are at the two opposite sides of terrible parenting techniques in terms with children. On one side, you got a deadbeat god father who curses his wife, leaves to go get milk, comes back 30(?) years to kill his son, indirectly does nothing to stop or punish his other son Ares, and literally takes no responsibility for his actions when the Greek gods are being picked off one by one. Then on the other side, you got Odin with a tight emotional leash, controlling his children by tapping into their character flaws, giving little shit if they die either by another’s hand or (in Thor’s case) by his own hands, and is overall abusive physically and emotionally to everyone (the line “I love my son” doesn’t exist with him).
Bacon of the Tactics I'm here at 16:35 on Tuesday 5 hours after this video has premiered to let you know that it says 100k subscribers under your channel name on the video, congratulations brother you made it
You explained it way better than I ever could. Even though I like the idea of a "master manipulator, king of lies" type of villain, Odin feels just plain. The final boss fight could have benefitted from him showing some cool weapons and powers, cause his legend is that of a god of warriors, after all
Logic of point 1 was quite silly, you assumed that Zeus doesn't know Kratos will make the mistake, and more importantly Zeus' strategy is totally effective because of the fact that he's stripping Kratos off of his powers and Zeus could just snatch the blade of olympus from him any time like he was doing in the ending battle. Remember Zeus was destroying Kratos' ass until Kratos started tricking Zeus.
The one thing I think was better about Odin was that we learned more about him than Zeus, like with Zeus they don’t ever go in depth about his origin or any famous mythical tales involving him.
@@lightmohamed5700 I mean IN DEPTH, that goes for all the Greek gods and the greek world, like who created mankind, are the Titans gods, did Poseidon create horses, etc. In the first Norse game we learn how all Norse life was created, how Midgard was created, how Odin spent 9 days dead to gain knowledge, how the Sun was created, how the Dwarves were created, how the Sun and moon work etc.
Nah it was close. Both are hateable and manipulative af (one better at it) and throw their weight around to get what they want. Both great but although writing wise I’d say Odin was a lil better cuz we don’t need fear to possess Zeus cuz he was already evil. But I find Zeus a lil more hateable and more satisfying to kill and he has a better boss fight
Dont want to sound rude, but i believe that Odin is nowhere near Zeus in my opinion. The build up from zeus was more serious as he instantly kills Kratos, destroys Sparta, Imprisoned Krato's Mother and Brother (In Ghost of Sparta, if you want to count it), Gets Athena Killed by Krato's hand, Pissing Kratos off with his words, his power is shown in a lot of cases, being Krato's father,I can go on... Odin was portrayed better in GoW 2018 instead of what we got in Ragnarok. A manipulative old man (which is not bad by any means) but he really does not pose any threats except from the beginning and his engagement with Atreus. If we exclude all of that we are left with a mediocre and fast final battle (Mechanically good, but doesnt feel like fighting ODIN)
That's the thing, people get disappointed in the villain because he doesn't act the same way as for example Baldur did, someone who shows up to make the lives of the protagonists impossible, Odin is built differently, he sends all the tools he has (his children, innocent creatures like Nidhogg or Garm, the valkyries etc) before him to solve their problems, and the way he gets in the way of the protagonists beyond giving fights he does it through manipulation, if you already know the story and the fact that Tyr is Odin, it's weird to think that ODIN isn't doing anything for most of the story, the character is limited to doing certain things during the plot so as not to screw himself and his personal plan to obtain knowledge, he's simply a villain who has a different approach. And no, the guy is BAD, really bad, he just camouflages it pretty well, although even if it's your first time playing Ragnarok you can get ahead of his game if you keep certain things in mind, the guy doesn't stop lying every time he comes on the scene. That said, I give him credit for having the balls to not back down and wanting to personally kill the protagonists even though he was in an unfair fight, even though he could teleport to another realm and let Surtr kill them, he put up more of a fight than Thanatos and that guy was tough to kill.
@@martinc8965 Nice Argument. But after reading all of that, i still believe that Odin could have been and acted better. Still nowhere near zeus and for the Tyr plot twist: Really he reveal himself because brok would not stop talking? Dont seem that smart to me (Especially if its Odin). Zeus is better although i dont hate Ragnarok Odin.
@@atanas2006 Yes, regardless of the decision they make, there will always be people who are not completely convinced, and yes, it is simple. Brok wasn't going to let him go, the guy himself since the Alfheim mission was already more worried than he was in the beginning because that's where he realizes that he's against time and that Ragnarok was already knocking on his door, throughout the adventure he realizes that Brok was bothering him more than he thought, it was Brok who helped create the spear with which they killed Heimdall, it was Brok who was involved in stealing the Draupnir ring, it was Brok who helped Freya in part so that she would be free and therefore another problem that Odin had to deal with, and it's Brok who provided the most help in both games to finish him off, the guy literally killed a lot of people in the past for much less, thanks to the lore, (he killed someone to steal their library because of his paranoia, and another person for losing a simple bet) not to mention that in that confrontation he left him in a dead end, I suspect that his plan It wasn't about killing anyone, just taking them to Asgard near the rift disguised as Tyr, convincing Atreus to use the mask (since he can't use it) and that's it, he would have won, but Brok once again stood in the way of his goals as he has been doing since the beginning of the first game.
@@atanas2006 Personally, I like Odin more, his mere presence and how it is a puzzle to discover what he really does throughout the game with his actions is a delight for me, I like his fight although I like Zeus's a lot more, I think it is the only thing I prefer about him over Odin, perhaps it would be different if the Zeus of Gow 3 was not such an imbecile.
Personally, I've always felt that Odin was more Atreus' nemesis rather than Kratos'. Kratos is the player character, but the story itself is just as much, if not more, about Loki.
That’s true Because kratos’ nemesis is actually Thor Odin is atreus’ nemesis. They are frankly the exact same person with similar traits but raised under different circumstances
Been watching and enjoying your content for quite some time now and while i do believe that zeus is still the superior villain of the franchise, every single antagonist has their own unique qualities and that alone makes up for all of it even if they aren't that great to begin with. Congrats on 100k!! Looking forward to more GOW content.
Zeus is really underrated and commands the Greek pantheon as the most dominant King of his realm. Everything and everyone is either serving Zeus or in fear of him. His Statues in his name say enough. Mount Olympus is what we expected Asgard to resemble.
That was quite a fun watch. Though I didn't get to play GoW3, I just watched it, I agree with the points given to each villain. However, I think Zeus has the upper hand here considering his uhh....villain-ness kinda spans 2 or 3 games. I think it was 2, Ares was the villain in 1 I believe. Odin was only mentioned in Norse GoW1.
1. Introduction. Zeus betraying Kratos and killing him was a great plot twist, even if death means very little to Kratos. Odin's introduction is interesting, but has to share that scene with Thor. Point to Zeus. 2. Connection to Kratos. Zeus is the father of Kratos. He's also going mad with fear from Pandora's Box and sees Kratos as a threat to his rule. Odin is more concerned with Artreus than Kratos. Artreus can help him achieve his goal, hence why he tries to pry the boy away from his father. The main rival to Kratos in Ragnarok is Thor, not Odin. Thor is very similar to OG Kratos, Kratos killed his sons, and Kratos tries to save Thor from himself. There's your connection! 3. Character Design. Both have interesting designs. Zeus is powerful and impressive, whereas Odin looks more sinister and unpredictable. Slight edge to Odin for wearing his coat like a cloak. 4. Personality. Zeus has a great presence, but the Greek gods weren't written as being very deep. Zeus is too similar to the other gods to be exceptional. Odin is nothing like the other Norse gods. He's polite and calm, but manages to keep Thor under his thumb. He's interesting in how much of his true evil you don't see him perform. 5. Power/Menace. Both Zeus and Odin are motivated by fear. Odin is afraid of death, and is desperately trying to understand and outsmart death. Zeus is afraid of Kratos, but still chooses to fight him multiple times. Zeus confronts his fears, while Odin runs away from his. That makes Zeus more menacing to me. 6. Boss Fight. Easy win for Zeus. Great music, and a constantly rising climax. Odin's boss fight is very lackluster. Winner: Zeus This list reflects my thoughts on the GOW franchise as a whole. The old games had better action and scale, while the new games have better character writing. The perfect God of War game would combine the strengths of both. (I took out Theme Music, Motivation and On Screen Time for being kind of redundant)
Love this. I really like all your categories and explanations, and I'm in lock step with you in every pick. If I'd suggest anything, it might be a round for "Conclusion" to bookend the one for "Introduction." Separate from Boss Fight mechanics, how does defeating each villain effect Kratos, effect them themselves, and lead to satisfying the story? In the end, I think Zeus is a better GoW villain for a videogame and how those are designed, and Odin might be a better villain for like, an actual movie or something. I also want to add, that even though I agree Zeus is clearly more powerful and menacing, in defense of Odin, it should be noted just how impactful he is, as conveyed by *other characters* who do most of the legwork talking up his reputation. Or- in the case of the displaced commonfolk in Asgard- love him. Fear is one form of power, but it's a really neat exploration of godhood, when Odin asks Kratos if he knows what it's like to be worshiped and prayed to. That's another form of power altogether.
Odin kinda squanders all the build up that Mimir gives him in the first game. When we finally meet Odin he has presence (Almost everything is a direct result of his actions or he has a hand in them) but he weirdly doesn't really have menace. Thor has menace, Heimdal has menace, Baldur had menace but Odin doesn't have it. Even in his boss fight he's just kinda shuffling around occasionally attacking or casting a spell. We know he's powerful, we know he's dangerous but he doesn't really feel like these things. Zeus on the other hand has an immense amount of menace. Whenever Zeus is on screen shit is about to go down and you come to expect that from him. He has more spectacle in his actions, Zeus doesn't show up just to chat, he mocks while beating your ass or putting some new fresh massive obstacle in your way. Zeus was a story mover in a more palpable way than Odin. Also the things that Odin tries to do to manipulate Kratos doesn't hold that much with us as players because we know what Kratos has been through, how he's grown and changed. I'm sure Odin feels clever picking at old wounds and even if Kratos is a little shook by them we know him better than he knows himself at that point so a lot of what Odin says comes off as yapping.
I think the problem with Odin is that he just doesn't take advantage of the medium. Yes, on paper, he has more positives in terms of character and story. But as the main villain of a VIDEO GAME, he's just not as engaging.
Zeus. Because of how poetic it is. Zeus, fearing that he would suffer the same fate as his own father, set into motion events that would lead to his downfall and destruction of everything he built. The same fate Cronos suffered.
Odin more or less did the same tbh
@@danialyousaf6456 True, but the personal familial nature of the Greece saga is more personal.
Cronos also killed his father, well to be exact he cut off his junk.
@@danialyousaf6456yes and no Odin caused everyone around him to want him dead while Zeus had the entire Greek world on his side besides the very few characters that help kratos
I'm sorry you're using poetic when it comes to Zeus do you not know your Norse history Odin is literally the god of poetry
Comparing these two is kinda like comparing Tai Lung and Shen
One is a physical threat, the other is a mental threat
You know... that's a good example, Tai Lung is physically stronger than Shen, but Shen still defends himself with his weapons but excels in his ability to mentally damage his opponent, or well, the protagonist.
@@martinc8965 And then you just swap which one has the stronger personal connection to the protag
Funny enough, even in terms of mental threat, zeus was there as well and even more especially when he wasnt infected with the evils whereas odin was so impatient and a piss ass that even a dwarf manages to expose him.
@@tc-channelhobby4051 Zeus was at most involved in the death of Kratos' mother and in taking his brother when he was little, although he gave the order, the one who did leave him with the trauma was Ares.
@@martinc8965 all of this happened after he was infected with the evils, that's where he began to become erratic and why his actions began to waver and were questionable especially in ghost of Sparta and finally becoming full circle in god of war 2.
And yeah, ares is the one who gave him the most trauma along with the prophecy and the evils infecting him even though he tried to fight back against as shown in god of war 3 through Athena.
I think Odin is intimidating in the way an old mob boss is intimidating. You're not afraid because he himself scares you, but rather because you know the power and authority he has, and that if he wants you dead then you are dead.
I like how they gave us glimpses here and there of how truly brutal and powerful Odin really is beyond his old man facade. It’s much like when, in movies, the mafia boss suddenly snaps with incredible displays of violence that make you go, "Yep, he's the boss for a reason." It doesn't happen all the time, and that's the clever part because it stands out when it does.
Remember how he casually lifted and threw Mjölnir as if it were paper into Thrud, or how fast and hard he threw Atreus in wolf form after biting him. Odin never reveals the true extent of his power, he's so much more than he lets on.
If only you weren't playing as Kratos, the least intimidated man alive who is literally too angry to die.
So basically Odin is Paulie from Goodfellas? 😂
@@plocky4275we felt non of that intimidation of Odin at all. Odin just felt like a deceiving all father everybody liked until he was pissed off.
@@christianhenry4173For real. He wasnt intimidating at all
If I can use an action movie comparison, I'd say Zeus is a Commando-style villain. Beefy, Brutish, with some eloquent, memorable lines to make up for the fact that little strategy is needed to combat him.
Meanwhile, Odin is a Die Hard villain. Not the most physically imposing character, but uses cunning and mind games to get into the hero's head.
They are both a lot of fun, but at the end of the day, which one you prefer is down to your personal preference.
Nice comparison
Odin is better imo
Odin is a weak ass villain
@@joker18524 guess that’s your opinion
So basically Zeus is Tai lung while Odin is lord Shen
I've always seen Zeus as a tyrannical king and Odin as a corrupt mob boss. Zeus is extremely power-hungry and rules over his subjects with an iron fist, while Odin is more calm for the most part and often uses calculated trickery to get his way. Both archetypes are threatening in their own way and make for compelling villains as long as they're written and presented well, which both are in my opinion. They really are two sides of the same coin. But when it comes to which you like more, at the end of the day, it's all a matter of preference like you said.
In this way i find ODIN far more frigthening than Zeus.. while the late is a Tyrant who rule for the sake of ruling, of being superior than everything but Odin is curiosity.... His thirst for knowledge and control run so deep that he will kill , use and torture anyone that he can
"corrupt mob boss"
I'm not about you my guy but I'm pretty sure all mob bosses are corrupt
Reading these comments really tells you that nobody finished watching the video and thought this was a deeply explained vs match like Death Battle
👁️👄👁️
Or maybe people are just giving their own opinions in the comments instead of trying to shut down the discourse like you are?
Most comments is about their opinions and are well thought, what are you on about
Cry about it
I think the reason we would likr Zeus more, is because hes Kratos Villain, while Odin is Loki's villain. While we play as Kratos in the norse games, the story really revolves around Odin.
Plus, if Im honest, Zeus was more fun to fight against.
Odin needed one more phase. If there was just a battle phase where he rides Sleipnir during the fight, it might have been epic. It's weird that the greatest fight in the game was one in the opening chapters of Ragnarok (first battle between Kratos and Thor).
@@thebukojoeplays Absolutely love ragnarok as a whole but the endgame left a lot to be desired, the final fights with thor and odin were a little underwhelming, they needed way more phases and locations
@@mydayzclips13 exactly it needed to be more like baldurs endfight as much as i like the game that is a very relevant criticism, zeus's fight had three epix phases, whereas thor only gets one and stays on the same location they should have been flying around like the first fight, fighting over jormungandar or some thing
@@Adi-mk2lq yeah my thoughts exactly bro
@@Adi-mk2lq yea bro baulders end fight was crazy the dragons the titan the atreaus combo. They 100% missed out a bit with the ending no question.
If you know your mythology, the way both of them are utilized makes sense and is very fitting for their characters.
Oh could u elaborate further please i can see for zeus cuz of his obsession and paranoia in myth and in the game but not for odin.
@@deadsdeep4657 God of wisdom
“Wiry Old Dude that looks like Steve Bushimi with an eye patch.”
He acts more like Jeff Goldblum to me.
He does look like Steve buscemi
You choose to be nothing?
UUUUUUUUUAAHHH!!!!
Ian Malcom never took to retiring well
If I'm being honest with you, when it comes to the Norse games, Baldur is far more interesting and far more challenging antagonist then Odin. His character from the moment he was introduced until his death was so memorable, his backstory, appearance, dialogue, voice, etc... it's all so good. He's this small but tough cookie and the final boss had more memorable and cool phases then Odin. It's always a treat whenever he shows up
Totally agree on that
Bro Baldur is fun af ngl Odin doesn’t feel as threatening. Honestly, I like both the Norse games but 2018 is better in my subjective opinion.
The fault with ragnarok as a whole (would like to mention that Ragnarök is still my favourite GoW game), is that it was for the most part Marvelized. If it had the same writing style as GoW 2018 or prior entres of the franchise for the most part, it would without a doubt been so much better than Zeus (imo).
Like should have been so much darker as its the end of the world we are talking about. Look at GoW 3. Now i dont mean everything should be gore-porn but there could have been more at stake, like Atreus being tortured by Freya or something.
That is why i wished we would have gotten a trilogy instead of two games and they could've been named God Of War, Fimbulvetr/Fimbulvinter, then Ragnarök. Or at least should have gotten a DLC for GoW 2018 called Fimbulvetr/Fimbulwinter, then GoW Ragnarök, and Valhalla.
Well he did say if this video did well he'd be comparing Ares and Baldur
Odin was mid... His power was talking 😂😂 they did Odin wrong... He was supposed to be a saruman type of carachter, yet, he was just an old man that wanted a mask...
Zeus was more regal and godly. Odin felt more like a village chieftain.
No Zeus looks like a bodyguard not godly.
@@supergirlvideoclips894 What the fuck makes you think "bodyguard" when looking at Zeus? Idiot.
@@supergirlvideoclips894 and a fairly stereotypical one, lots of muscle, little brain at least in what was seen in Gow 3, although well in that game everyone is an idiot. But Zeus is over the top
@@supergirlvideoclips894 bro never seen greek statues, ok ok .
@@supergirlvideoclips894
I was referring to the aura or vibes they both gave off. Odin seemed more human. Zeus had a supernatural presence to him. Odin (and I guess all the Norse gods) felt more...primitive???
Now i want Baldur vs Ares (best villian)
Baldur.
Ares definitely, he created the Kratos we all know and love
@@PrimordialChaos1 I would say Faye created the Kratos I am a fan of.
@@PrimordialChaos1that doesn’t make him a better written villain
Baldur no contest. Ares thinks of everything through the lens of war. Baldur is much more complicated and is a reflection of young kratos.
Great video, man. I feel like both were the best in what categories of villains they were. Zeus was a tyrant set on securing his power and authority over others through physical intimidation. While Odin was a master manipulator who was able to pose as a casual old man and create schemes to play all sides.
Although Zeus’s boss fight was better, both were perfectly executed for what villains they were meant to be.
zeus bossfight was pretty average , you are blinded by nostalgia.
@@shadowrealm3245 I just mean in scale, layers and compared to Odin’s boss fight. Not saying it was the greatest boss fight, just that it felt bigger.
@@shadowrealm3245baldurs boss fight was leagues better than Odin's.
@@shadowrealm3245 the games already showed enough with Greeks still above and having more to offer than the Norse will ever be.
You tried, child. @@shadowrealm3245
I’m probably too biased because I grew up with the old GOW games, but Zeus is easily my favorite.
I think Im the opposite, only beginning to care about GOW after Ragnarok released
There's a huge mistake in your video - introduction
Zeus made kratos to give in all his power to the blade. After that , there's no match for kratos to go toe to toe against Zeus. The point could have been gone to zeus
Couldn't kratos just...use the blade on zeus? if he wasn't trapped, what then?
@@blackmage665 He tried, then died.
@@blackmage665 Zeus could have turned giant and done this himself. I think he didn’t expect Kratos to get hit due to his pride as he ignored the statue, but him coming face to face with Kratos was like a victory lap. It was done just to embarrass him at that point in front of Kratos’s loyal soldiers. As for the blade, it was basically like stealing candy from a baby, even more so after Kratos got crushed by the statue. But he didn’t need to wait for that to happen, it would have been easy to end Kratos without any god powers
@@blackmage665 don’t matter. Kratos is exhausted and Zeus isn’t. That fight wouldn’t last much longer then it did originally
@@blackmage665 Kratos didn’t know Zeus was his enemy at that point, he could have just shown up and pretended to be on Kratos’ side and then killed him without a fight
It’s interesting, Zeus is what I valued most in my villains when I was younger, and Odin is what I value now. I would still think both are great, just completely different. Also, Kratos being Goldberg is a chef’s kiss moment.
I'm glad I found this channel, by far the most fair and good faith video I've seen when comparing the old games with the new games, lots of good arguments for both Zeus and Odin, and I feel mostly the same way. I like them both as characters and I think they both serve their purpose as antagonists of two different sagas really well, with their intended purpose being realized well. I don't think either one is objectively better than the other, and which one you like more as a villain depends on personal taste, which is okay.
99.9k!! Early congrats, your stuff got me through a hospital stay due to a fire. I love zoning in on "deep-dives" related to creation, and your stuff always hits the spot.
Another aspect of odins character design is that his tattoos are imbued with the magic of his ravens, or vice versa. In his intro when he called back his ravens they became his forearm tattoos. Every other time, i believe, we see him he doesnt have the tattoos so his ravens are out watching. A neat little detail for us since other people also have tattoos imbued with magic. Or the tattoos are a vessel for the magic to travel through idk. We also saw baldurs tattoos light up whenever his curse was lifted.
Almost everyone in 2018 and ragnarok has tattoos. To what degree they are fashion or magic i dont know.
I'd argue they involve magic.
Freya has very faint tattoos in GoW that get more and more solid and bold through the game.
Both villains are great but I feel Zeus is just that bit more memorable and better utilised. Also, I would love to see that Ares VS Baldur video!
I think Odin had more depth as a character. Zeus personality wise is mostly just a bully he doesn’t really display intelligence at all.
But he has some cool powers and a cool boss fight. But Odin has everything else so I think Odin is the better villain. That’s just my opinion
No intelligence? He tricked kratos into giving up his god hood and kill him, and even planned the death of his families before, like killing deimos was part of his plan. Odin also wasn't super smart. What he did is just disguising himself as tyr, other than that he acts like an angry brute
@@mihaimercenarul7467 You do not need to be smart to plan things like that when you're the most powerful (both in magically and politically) being in your realm. -_-
@mihaimercenarul7467 kratos being manipulated in the Greek games has more to do with him being dumb and blinded by revenge and nightmares instead of zues being really ALL that intelligent. Zues would find it much harder to manipulate norse kratos
Zeus was NOT a good person even before Kratos opening Pandora's box , cuz Kratos served the Gods for 10 years in GoW 1 , he sent his goon Ares to kill the marked boy from sparta , he cursed his mother so she coulnt tell him the trug and he KNEW Kratos was his son and he didnt do a SINGLE good thing about him ! And all of thay BEFORE Pandora's Boxx was opened
Yeah, and also many of the gods had that habit of sending the hordes of unthinkable monsters loose just so they can slaughter the regular people en masse. Zeus did that, Ares and Poseidon did that, Hypnos did that (that's practically the first thing he did after Helios was gone).
@@Skarrier Yeah , Zeus just DID not want to get the family treatment from his own son cuz he would be dead as the same went with him and his father Cronos but the THING IS Kratos did not even KNOW his father was Zeus so why was Zeus so afraid ? And after GoW 1 he was even more afraid and even more a dumbass
I just wrote the same. And the worst thing is that he points out every horrible thing Zeus did to Kratos earlier in the same video
I thougt the "Menasing" point was a pity point for Zeus. But it seems Odin was the one in need of pity points so he wouldn't lose by a landslide
yes the gods crushed anyone that offended them slightly, i mean it's not different in nordic gow, you insult thor even slightly and he would take your life. but the whole pandoras chest thing, just amplified the paranoia zeus had in him, to the nth degree.
Congrats on getting to 100K! TH-cam has done you dirty because it was a slow crawl there.
I have never been so early for a TBP video, and its a God of War one too! What a great way to start my Tuesday
In terms of characterization and performance: Odin.
In terms of action and boss fights: Zeus.
This
I think the point against zues about not knowing what to do after Kratos gets the blade of Olympus can be remedied by the speech the sister of fate has about giving Kratos and even zues all they have and being able to undo it, so under zues's order you could say they tugged Kratos string of fate making the statue slap him into a pancake
I like this sort of comparison video, I'd be interested in seeing you do the same for something like GTA's villains.
I'll say this, I think I'd rather deal with Odin as opposed to Zeus.
Zeus is definitely more epic as the final boss. I do find more appeal in Odin’s character as time goes on.
Plus his presence is really felt in the lore through out ever since 2018. Show how he’s such a menace to the realms.
The first GoW game is mainly about Ares and almost no Zeus at all. In that point I prefer the norse side more.
Great video! I agree with all of your main points and scoring system, and I'll comment on two additional points:
- Odin's fight really felt like an afterthought. Baldur, Zeus, and Thor all had encounters that showcased their power which was elevated after their first encounter with Kratos. While a direct confrontation with Odin is conceptually unfitting in the narrative of the game, a few glimpses at Odin's raw power through Atreus's eyes would have been great. The final fight was also severly lacking mechanically. Sure, he had a variety of spells and AoE attacks, but he had no defining feature outside of having combined most attacks you'd have encountered with standard enemies. What if we were stripped of various weapons during the fight and unable to harm him (say, he has an Ice shield and we only have the Leviathan axe at that time), making us rely on Atreus to break his shield so that we may go to town on him? What if he brought minor Norse gods out of nowhere (say they are oblivious to Odin's schemes or uncaring of them) for an impromptu 2v1, putting them in harm's way while he regenerates health? Some cinematic sections with some QTEs and grandiose moments (say, he's mortally wounded by Garm/Genrir, who originally kills Odin in the myths) would have also been welcome.
- Zeus' character needed to be a big brute so that we could emphatize with the brute who was our protagonist, but the "Hope-Fear" angle killed his character. Keeping his brutish, egoitistical, raw power qualities, maybe a fear that his offspring & underlings may dethrone him in a similar way that he did to Cronos in a vicious cycle would be more than enough motivation for him to do the things he did. In a way, Zeus would be a parallel to Kratos's views on family, bloodshed, and upholding the tyranny of the gods. The fear "entity" is thus so frustrating because it not only stripped Zeus of his agency as is mentioned in the video, it was also strictly unnecessary from a narrative perspective because it made it bloated.
Have a great day everyone!
It took everything to beat Zeus (Zoooos!) including acquiring power from the strongest beings in Greek myth like literal Titans, the Sisters of Fate, Poseidon, Hades etc.
With Odin meanwhile, it felt his boss fight was more of an after credits scene. The real star of the show was the Thor fights.
Zeus is a better villain, but Odin is a better character. Zeus is exactly the type of Bondian sociopath we want in a villain. he's big, he's scary, even when he's in disguise or trying to act nice, we know it's an act. and when we finally get to fight him, it's big, it's grandiose, it's everything someone could want in an end-game boss battle
But Odin. We know who Odin is. in the 2018 game, we hear all about him, how he slaughtered entire races and committed atrocities in the name of knowledge. Then, in Ragnarok, we meet him. And we like him. He's charming and witty, he's just some kind old man who happens to be surrounded by jerks. because that's what he wants us to see. Because he's not like Zeus. Zeus just kills people and calls it a day, but Odin? why would he do that, once your dead, you can't give him any more stuff. of course, after he has what he wants, well, RIP to my man Brok
Odin blatantly treats his own children like accessories the first cutscene he shows up in. Lol
Because of how poetic it is. Zeus, fearing that he would suffer the same fate as his own father
The design of Zeus is that way because he is from Greece, where people wore those type of clothes. Not to mention that god of war 1-3 happens in ancient Greece. While god of war 2018 and ragnarok are more modern.
Are you saying the clothes are more modern? If so ur very wrong I've never seen people wear clothing like that, but if not then I have no idea what else ur trying to say.
Congratulations on the 100k subscribers! And would love to see you do more comparisons as this one.
Zeus is definitely more menacing than Odin, in gow 3 when you reach the top of the mountain at the start he is just standing there and when you are finished stating your bs he sends you from the top of the mountain Olympus to the bottom of the Underworld with a single lightning
But odin is more creepy him disguised as tyr.
I think where Odin works as far as introduction is while this is the first time you meet him, you hear stories about him in the previous game. It paints a decent picture and is accurate to when you meet him.
I wasn’t the biggest fan of Odin’s design at first but it grew on me, I understand why they chose it though, they had to make it match the prophecy mural and they couldn’t make him look too devious otherwise it wouldn’t make sense for Atreus to trust him.
Hey look who now has 100k. Congrats!
You gave Zeus a freebie with that moment one. Odin being tyr made you have to reply to really understand every moment Odin was really on cam.
I kinda feel like you skewed the "moment" part in Zeus' favor to make Zeus win, because you love GoW3.
His whole thing as Tyr and every single appearance of Odin in person usually means you have to pay double the attention to catch his manipulations, meanwhile in Zeus' case it's usually like "Oh, the boss you can't beat yet is here, great. next scene please.".
Also the "connection to the protagonist" part is literally just there to give Zeus a point. MC's father vs the dude we don't even see for a whole game, like come on.
Congrats on the milestone 🎉🎉 also Zeus and Odin are kinda equal in my mind lol i like them both for pretty much opposite reasons.
Prime GoW content from TBP as usual. Happy early 100K, and personally due to getting into God of War through Ragnarok i personally enjoy Odin as a character more through my experience but I can definitely see where Zeus is better to some if not most.
Actually, when you mentioned the prophecies it reminded me that the prophecy about Zeus's death makes no sense, the fates are very much against the death of Zeus in GOW2 yet all prophecies come for the fates, and the only way that the prophecy came to fruition is by the death of the fates, which makes no sense.
Congrats on 100k my man!!!
I really like this video style you should make more with other gow characters or characters from different franchises.
Great work 👍
Ok, the Menace/Power part is SO biased. You completely ignored every other feats attributed to Odin in both 2018 and Ragnarok. Lets start with 2018, theres the Black Breath which a spell casted by Odin that is so strong that no other magic aside from the Bifrost can bypass it. And then there's the spell that binds Freya to Midgard which involved him screwing with the Roots of Yggdrassil itself ! Those are NOT small feats. Also, are you seriously saying Zeus can beat both Odin and Thor ? Now that's just overwanking BS. In the Journal, Kratos himself stated that Thor has the *STRONGEST PUNCHES hes ever felt !* And you gotta remember that Kratos is a Greek God, and the devs has confirmed that Greek Gods get stronger the older they age. Meaning the current Kratos is at his strongest, and yet he says Thor's punches are the hardest, meaning Thor's raw strength alone already vastly overpowers Zeus. And Odin ? Odin straight up required *3 gods* to team up on him to finally defeat him. Oh here comes the Kratonks Fanboys saying "kRAtoS iS hOLdiNG bACk". Come on, USE LOGIC, people ! Why would Kratos even hold back ? There is absolutely no reason for Kratos to be holding back against Odin ! Sure, he may not be the raging monster that he used to be. But that doesn't mean he isn't using full strength, he's just more controlled and composed. And yet he still needed the help of his son and Freya to take down Odin, that fact alone makes him way stronger than Zeus. Also, the Boss Fight segment is also Biased AF. You straight up says Odin didn't get the upperhand at 20:26 which is BS. You literally ignores the fact that Odin had Kratos and Atreus binded and couldn't move at all ! During the end of phase one. Which also proves why I say Kratos couldn't be holding back, because he is literally being binded by magic, he should be using all of his might to break free ! But as we can see, he couldn't. Kratos and Atreus would've lost there and then if it weren't for Freya coming in clutch bailing them out of that predicament. So who said Odin didn't get the upperhand during his boss fight, huh ? Play the boss fight again and PAY ATTENTION.
one more thing you didnt go into. Odin has a visible life bar. While its not bad on its own, it hurt the pace of the fight if the player can see they are close enought to win that just rushing the boss is viable. Meanwhile not having it forces the player to focus their atention on their life and what the boss is doing
I may be kinda late on this, but I've heard a point made in this video from elsewhere and I'd like to point out a small misconception people make about Ragnarok's opening scene with Odin. Based on the cutscene alone, Kratos seeing right through Odin's initial lies and attempts at "peace" was something that took no consideration -- something he was totally unconvinced by before Odin even walked in.
However, looking at the Kratos codex entry for Odin (which he himself wrote), the choice was a bit more layered and could have potentially gone the other way if Mimir wasn't there or if Odin didn't bring up Freya. To quote what I'm talking about for reference:
"I must note that he offered a deal of peace for our inaction. If I did not have better counsel, I would have been tempted to take it. His threat to Freya made this impossible. She may persist as a danger, but to ally against her with her former husband is... unacceptable".
Not a major thing, and still a great video, just something I've seen pop up in more than one GoW Ragnarok video.
Okay, so let's see. Introduction goes to Zeus. That "flaw" you mention is literally bs overanalyzation. You could apply that logic to everything media, and if you did, then everything would be "flawed" in some obscure way, which is actually true but we just overlook small details.
13:35 Villain Aura
Motivation goes to Zeus imo. I love the concept of the cycle where Cronos was destined to be defeated by Zeus, and now Zeus by Kratos and that's why he fears him so much. Odin's motivation is actually really good, but it unfortunately goes nowhere. They never explain what the rift actually was. They never try to maybe fix the mask to take a peek inside. This makes Odin have better "Goals" but Zeus better motivation
Bossfight you've got to excuse me but it goes to Odin. He has way more mechanical depth than Zeus does. While Zeus has got more spectacle, I feel like gameplay ultimately still takes the advantage here. Zeus also has the garbage 2.5d phase so that lowers him a bit too. Also who tf wants to fight the final boss as Atreus?? You are just coping man.
Ultimately, as a villain, Zeus wins Low difficulty. And responding to what you said in the end, Odin is a decent side character, but he's awful as a villain. He's boring, and you aren't eagerly waiting for his next appearance ever. He has 0 villain aura. And don't even get me started on how his "wrath" at the end it looks like he's just throwing a tantrum.
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A case has to be said that Odin’s menacing and anticipation was done so well in the first version of Norse God of War.
Even his reveal was something to behold.
His effects to the world from the spirits, Mimir etc was a good setup for what’s to come.
But I think Cory’s decision to visually introduce him in the game that he also dies causes some pace issues which mostly causes Odin to not compete with Zeus in the cases Zeus won.
But yeah, great video
13:12 Thing is, when you take the psychological perspective, that ancient greek gods were more like the embodiment of concepts, than actual people, you'll start to understand, that this portrayal of Zeus is *remains on point.*
Zeus is the embodiment of power - authoritarian power, basically *rulership* with all it's flaws and duties. Him _demanding_ things and using excessive force, when verbal commands proofed unsufficient, just goes along with what his mythological counterpart would do.
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I disagree that Zeus should win the "Moments" category as his dialogue is effectively "Grrr. I mean! I mad! Roaaarrr! I'm gonna gitcha!!"
Way better than cuckdin using modern day words like "mY ExE" 🤡
Making a category for musical theme but not voice acting feels so rigged I can't lie
He *literally* looks like Richard Schiff with an eye patch.
I didn't even get to the video content. I subscribed for the Bacon Intro, alone. Lol!
Great video, thank you. Keep 'em comin' and have a great night, everyone.
One thing I do love about this comparison is that the categories they seemed to win was important for what they're games were and the story they were telling.
Great video man! The WWE comparison at the end sold me 😂
This is honestly a fair comparison, even though I was vying for Odin to come out on top I can see why zeus did.
To me Odin was the overall better character. He just had so many layers. He was genius, manipulative, he absolutely stole the game for me and easily one of the best villains in the series! His strength was in his intellect and the way he would use people to get what he wanted was great. Zeus I would definitely give the boss fight too but Odin was a character was better for me
The “glaring flaw” in zeus’ introduction pretty much gets cleared up by the introduction of the sisters of fate later. Zeus could have been told by them what would happen so Zeus felt confident in what he was doing. And if that isn’t the case, kratos was mortal by the end of his battle. Hand crushing him or not, Zeus could still outpace his mortal body and take the blade back with ease.
Zeus because it took us two and a half games to beat him
How is that fair?.
In some ways, both Zeus and Odin are at the two opposite sides of terrible parenting techniques in terms with children. On one side, you got a deadbeat god father who curses his wife, leaves to go get milk, comes back 30(?) years to kill his son, indirectly does nothing to stop or punish his other son Ares, and literally takes no responsibility for his actions when the Greek gods are being picked off one by one. Then on the other side, you got Odin with a tight emotional leash, controlling his children by tapping into their character flaws, giving little shit if they die either by another’s hand or (in Thor’s case) by his own hands, and is overall abusive physically and emotionally to everyone (the line “I love my son” doesn’t exist with him).
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You explained it way better than I ever could. Even though I like the idea of a "master manipulator, king of lies" type of villain, Odin feels just plain. The final boss fight could have benefitted from him showing some cool weapons and powers, cause his legend is that of a god of warriors, after all
Logic of point 1 was quite silly, you assumed that Zeus doesn't know Kratos will make the mistake, and more importantly Zeus' strategy is totally effective because of the fact that he's stripping Kratos off of his powers and Zeus could just snatch the blade of olympus from him any time like he was doing in the ending battle.
Remember Zeus was destroying Kratos' ass until Kratos started tricking Zeus.
Dude I struggled waaayyyy more with The Maven And Ormstunga than Odin. It feels like it wasn't hard enough
Zeus its not even close Odin was a tool though
Odin was conniving and I enjoyed the undercover twist but I still found him overall underwhelming especially his mcguffin quest
The one thing I think was better about Odin was that we learned more about him than Zeus, like with Zeus they don’t ever go in depth about his origin or any famous mythical tales involving him.
@@Bolbi145 we learned his origins and we could play with him in Ghost of Sparta but that’s it. That’s the nature of the Greek games
@@lightmohamed5700 I mean IN DEPTH, that goes for all the Greek gods and the greek world, like who created mankind, are the Titans gods, did Poseidon create horses, etc. In the first Norse game we learn how all Norse life was created, how Midgard was created, how Odin spent 9 days dead to gain knowledge, how the Sun was created, how the Dwarves were created, how the Sun and moon work etc.
Nah it was close. Both are hateable and manipulative af (one better at it) and throw their weight around to get what they want. Both great but although writing wise I’d say Odin was a lil better cuz we don’t need fear to possess Zeus cuz he was already evil. But I find Zeus a lil more hateable and more satisfying to kill and he has a better boss fight
Amazing video great idea
Zeus . Bro was so a menace that he even fooled Kratos to lose his powers and send him to hell
Anyone could have fooled Kratos in the earlier GoW games. Everyone in that game were stupid.
Dont want to sound rude, but i believe that Odin is nowhere near Zeus in my opinion. The build up from zeus was more serious as he instantly kills Kratos, destroys Sparta, Imprisoned Krato's Mother and Brother (In Ghost of Sparta, if you want to count it), Gets Athena Killed by Krato's hand, Pissing Kratos off with his words, his power is shown in a lot of cases, being Krato's father,I can go on... Odin was portrayed better in GoW 2018 instead of what we got in Ragnarok. A manipulative old man (which is not bad by any means) but he really does not pose any threats except from the beginning and his engagement with Atreus. If we exclude all of that we are left with a mediocre and fast final battle (Mechanically good, but doesnt feel like fighting ODIN)
Agreed
That's the thing, people get disappointed in the villain because he doesn't act the same way as for example Baldur did, someone who shows up to make the lives of the protagonists impossible, Odin is built differently, he sends all the tools he has (his children, innocent creatures like Nidhogg or Garm, the valkyries etc) before him to solve their problems, and the way he gets in the way of the protagonists beyond giving fights he does it through manipulation, if you already know the story and the fact that Tyr is Odin, it's weird to think that ODIN isn't doing anything for most of the story, the character is limited to doing certain things during the plot so as not to screw himself and his personal plan to obtain knowledge, he's simply a villain who has a different approach. And no, the guy is BAD, really bad, he just camouflages it pretty well, although even if it's your first time playing Ragnarok you can get ahead of his game if you keep certain things in mind, the guy doesn't stop lying every time he comes on the scene.
That said, I give him credit for having the balls to not back down and wanting to personally kill the protagonists even though he was in an unfair fight, even though he could teleport to another realm and let Surtr kill them, he put up more of a fight than Thanatos and that guy was tough to kill.
@@martinc8965 Nice Argument. But after reading all of that, i still believe that Odin could have been and acted better. Still nowhere near zeus and for the Tyr plot twist: Really he reveal himself because brok would not stop talking? Dont seem that smart to me (Especially if its Odin). Zeus is better although i dont hate Ragnarok Odin.
@@atanas2006 Yes, regardless of the decision they make, there will always be people who are not completely convinced, and yes, it is simple. Brok wasn't going to let him go, the guy himself since the Alfheim mission was already more worried than he was in the beginning because that's where he realizes that he's against time and that Ragnarok was already knocking on his door, throughout the adventure he realizes that Brok was bothering him more than he thought, it was Brok who helped create the spear with which they killed Heimdall, it was Brok who was involved in stealing the Draupnir ring, it was Brok who helped Freya in part so that she would be free and therefore another problem that Odin had to deal with, and it's Brok who provided the most help in both games to finish him off, the guy literally killed a lot of people in the past for much less, thanks to the lore, (he killed someone to steal their library because of his paranoia, and another person for losing a simple bet) not to mention that in that confrontation he left him in a dead end, I suspect that his plan It wasn't about killing anyone, just taking them to Asgard near the rift disguised as Tyr, convincing Atreus to use the mask (since he can't use it) and that's it, he would have won, but Brok once again stood in the way of his goals as he has been doing since the beginning of the first game.
@@atanas2006 Personally, I like Odin more, his mere presence and how it is a puzzle to discover what he really does throughout the game with his actions is a delight for me, I like his fight although I like Zeus's a lot more, I think it is the only thing I prefer about him over Odin, perhaps it would be different if the Zeus of Gow 3 was not such an imbecile.
Both are goats for different reasons
Odin would have been a better villain IF there was a the third game to explore him
Personally, I've always felt that Odin was more Atreus' nemesis rather than Kratos'. Kratos is the player character, but the story itself is just as much, if not more, about Loki.
That’s true
Because kratos’ nemesis is actually Thor
Odin is atreus’ nemesis. They are frankly the exact same person with similar traits but raised under different circumstances
Been watching and enjoying your content for quite some time now and while i do believe that zeus is still the superior villain of the franchise, every single antagonist has their own unique qualities and that alone makes up for all of it even if they aren't that great to begin with.
Congrats on 100k!! Looking forward to more GOW content.
22:33 I like ur analogy actually
Especially the Kratos being Goldberg since thats apparently Kratos last name. Kratos Goldberg🤣🤣🤣
Who's next?!
The lad did it!! 100k baby!
Both are great. But Zeus takes it for me just because he gave us the feeling of the Final Big Bad. And final battle with him clearly showed that.
Love your videos man
Zeus is really underrated and commands the Greek pantheon as the most dominant King of his realm.
Everything and everyone is either serving Zeus or in fear of him. His Statues in his name say enough.
Mount Olympus is what we expected Asgard to resemble.
Congrats on 100k, you've deserved it for years :)
As of me watching this video, YT says you've reached 100k Subs.
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Congrats for reaching 100 k subs.
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Steve Buscemi with an eye patch would be a interesting villain 😂
That was quite a fun watch. Though I didn't get to play GoW3, I just watched it, I agree with the points given to each villain. However, I think Zeus has the upper hand here considering his uhh....villain-ness kinda spans 2 or 3 games. I think it was 2, Ares was the villain in 1 I believe. Odin was only mentioned in Norse GoW1.
1. Introduction. Zeus betraying Kratos and killing him was a great plot twist, even if death means very little to Kratos. Odin's introduction is interesting, but has to share that scene with Thor. Point to Zeus.
2. Connection to Kratos. Zeus is the father of Kratos. He's also going mad with fear from Pandora's Box and sees Kratos as a threat to his rule. Odin is more concerned with Artreus than Kratos. Artreus can help him achieve his goal, hence why he tries to pry the boy away from his father. The main rival to Kratos in Ragnarok is Thor, not Odin. Thor is very similar to OG Kratos, Kratos killed his sons, and Kratos tries to save Thor from himself. There's your connection!
3. Character Design. Both have interesting designs. Zeus is powerful and impressive, whereas Odin looks more sinister and unpredictable. Slight edge to Odin for wearing his coat like a cloak.
4. Personality. Zeus has a great presence, but the Greek gods weren't written as being very deep. Zeus is too similar to the other gods to be exceptional. Odin is nothing like the other Norse gods. He's polite and calm, but manages to keep Thor under his thumb. He's interesting in how much of his true evil you don't see him perform.
5. Power/Menace. Both Zeus and Odin are motivated by fear. Odin is afraid of death, and is desperately trying to understand and outsmart death. Zeus is afraid of Kratos, but still chooses to fight him multiple times. Zeus confronts his fears, while Odin runs away from his. That makes Zeus more menacing to me.
6. Boss Fight. Easy win for Zeus. Great music, and a constantly rising climax. Odin's boss fight is very lackluster.
Winner: Zeus
This list reflects my thoughts on the GOW franchise as a whole. The old games had better action and scale, while the new games have better character writing. The perfect God of War game would combine the strengths of both.
(I took out Theme Music, Motivation and On Screen Time for being kind of redundant)
I don't agree to a certain agree especially in God of war 3. Zeus would send in the other God's first before he would fight em.
Zeus he had menace and looked badass and was the most satisfying to take down
Love this. I really like all your categories and explanations, and I'm in lock step with you in every pick. If I'd suggest anything, it might be a round for "Conclusion" to bookend the one for "Introduction." Separate from Boss Fight mechanics, how does defeating each villain effect Kratos, effect them themselves, and lead to satisfying the story? In the end, I think Zeus is a better GoW villain for a videogame and how those are designed, and Odin might be a better villain for like, an actual movie or something.
I also want to add, that even though I agree Zeus is clearly more powerful and menacing, in defense of Odin, it should be noted just how impactful he is, as conveyed by *other characters* who do most of the legwork talking up his reputation. Or- in the case of the displaced commonfolk in Asgard- love him. Fear is one form of power, but it's a really neat exploration of godhood, when Odin asks Kratos if he knows what it's like to be worshiped and prayed to. That's another form of power altogether.
Odin kinda squanders all the build up that Mimir gives him in the first game. When we finally meet Odin he has presence (Almost everything is a direct result of his actions or he has a hand in them) but he weirdly doesn't really have menace. Thor has menace, Heimdal has menace, Baldur had menace but Odin doesn't have it. Even in his boss fight he's just kinda shuffling around occasionally attacking or casting a spell. We know he's powerful, we know he's dangerous but he doesn't really feel like these things.
Zeus on the other hand has an immense amount of menace. Whenever Zeus is on screen shit is about to go down and you come to expect that from him. He has more spectacle in his actions, Zeus doesn't show up just to chat, he mocks while beating your ass or putting some new fresh massive obstacle in your way. Zeus was a story mover in a more palpable way than Odin. Also the things that Odin tries to do to manipulate Kratos doesn't hold that much with us as players because we know what Kratos has been through, how he's grown and changed. I'm sure Odin feels clever picking at old wounds and even if Kratos is a little shook by them we know him better than he knows himself at that point so a lot of what Odin says comes off as yapping.
Congrats on 100k! Now only 900k away from 1 Million!
Congrats on 100k subs!!! You deserve it.
Odin doesn’t look like Steve Buscemi he looks like Richard Schiff! The voice and look is downright uncanny.
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I think the problem with Odin is that he just doesn't take advantage of the medium. Yes, on paper, he has more positives in terms of character and story. But as the main villain of a VIDEO GAME, he's just not as engaging.
The best intro in the entire world