Fuel burn comparison back to back, same wing and flying circuit/style. Comparison of EGT and CHT between EFI and carb. Fresh spark plug in each and then examination after running each.
High altitude performance test, test the climb rate as high as you're comfortable with a regular moster, then test climb rate at the same altitude with the efi
test the battery, specially on low temperatures, and pressures, you can use use your refrigerator for the initial case, and and ice bags around it on this summer. You can test how rainproof is the system. Adding electronics to the para-motor is a great start for tons of fun. Now the the autopilot and the auto landing and taking off are very close.
I'd like to see how much, if there is any; stray electrical noise to interfere with radio comms on the EFI version. Both 2M and PMR, or your local equivalent. Thanks.
When snowmobiles started using EFI it changed everything for the better. Same thing for personal watercraft. Paramotors and ultralights are a natural progression.
The first 50ccm scooters with injection were really bad at the beginning (purejet/ditech) sadly, always problems and very expensive spare parts. Most failure was not the injection itself but the pressure/fuel pump, it had a plastic piston inside which always broke under 5000 km..
Tucker, you should fly it from ground to a high altitude (like above 10,000 feet). Interesting for people to see the EFI adjusting to altitude changes, in real-time.
I think a fuel efficiency test over a longer distance would be nice. Maybe you could revisit your idea of flying across Florida since you should have better efficiency.
That would be sick! I'm training at aviator PPG literally right now, tucker coming by would be awesome! It wouldn't happen right now though, the conditions are really only flyable in the morning, so not likely to happen in the few weeks he has it
As an older pilot the idea of a start process that does not take 50% of my initial energy is great. Was already thinking of swapping out to e_start but would wait for this.
Kinda strange that they didn't include a stator to keep the battery charged like is the norm on motorcycles and other powersports engines. Must be a weight saving reason.
I would not want to charge a lithium battery on me while in the air and depending on said battery to run the engine. Just carry an extra battery. A lithium battery has to be charged gently for lack of better words. A stator will vary voltage with the RPMs and would be impossible to safely charge a lithium battery dependably.
My opinion as a mechanic is this is a great think for the guy who can't figure out a carb and for those who want more info/data (live data) to keep track on engine health an catch a issue before hand. Also I think they should make the computer have a recorder function with a sd card so you can dumb data from flights just like in a airplane as a tool to check somthing that happen mid flight or if a accident happens etc.. For EXAMPLE it would be another tool to find out why a pilot had a accident or if you notice at 8,000 ft it starts getting hot an the data may show a lean issue creating heat an wear on the engine so now you can fix before it ruins something. YES, THOSE ARE JUST EXAMPLES^ BUT.. If you could connect with you phone to have the data recorded alongside the avionics so you could see what happened at what part during a flight along with the speed & altitude plus gps data. Much like garmins features allows us to do in small planes. I think that's something alot of people would want the option of having and would also make these appeal more to the mass thus boosting sales for the company. Also Tucker the performance boost you didn't notice in the power area aside from smother power without a jumping power band, will be somthing more noticeable when going to the mountain's an haveing high alt take offs plus places with super dry or humid spots, an those who just like to go really high anywhere like 8k ft or higher I think the efi would show a better power performance boost over the standard carb in those situations, so like you said for the guy chasing a dragster like power , no this isn't it (although efi an mods can make great power easy) but the ease of use with auto tuning an haveing a constant air fuel ratio that the engine likes keeping it happy with peak performance in all conditions is where this thing will shine, not to mention the fuel savings. With the air fuel ratio been better controlled an kept in a near perfect ratio from the efi will not old smooth the power out an save fuel but it will keep you from running lean if your tuned for high alt then drow down to sea level, which will help the engine last alot long, need less work when doing maintenance an should greatly extend the life of the head rings exhaust etc because we know 2 strokes need more maintenance checks or you can ruin the job or rings plus the need top end replacement from time to time due to the nature of the engine. Efi should help greatly to keep those who aren't very mechanical an ruin pistons from trying to tune a engine or run lean because they aren't sure what they are doing. I love paramotors even though I don't fly, they are a awsome show of mechanical engineering an these are my opinions so please don't attack me with comments. But I would like to hear what you guys have to day about what I have tryed to talk about in this comment. Thanks, hope all is well for any readers!!!
Absolutely test the fuel economy! I had a 1992 Polaris 500 with EFI. It was incredible. No cold start issues, ran perfect at all temps and fuel economy was amazing but not 30% better. Maybe 5-10.
@@TuckerGott I don't paramotor, but if it has a barometer for altitude correction couldn't it theoretically turn off the safety when it's at altitude? Like it reads the barometer when you plug it in and calls that "ground" and then it should know when you are in the sky? Little MEMS barometers have some pretty crazy resolution...
@@pontiacg445should already have a mass airflow sensor which will give you all the info you would need to know if you were at altitude or not it like this idea and another thing I was thinking why not wireless throttle as well with cruise control
Its crazy, on that first climb it sounds totally different than any other engine I have heard, you can hear how smooth it runs. The Toyota of paramotors :D
Hey Tuck... Nothing looks better than seeing you up there above all the troubles of the world.... You are always at your best when I see you in a "sky seat" fuel injected or gravity feed fuel ... Love you man !!!!
Yes! This is a game changer. I almost went electric, except for the increased weight and limited flight time. EFI addresses both those issues being more efficient, less fuel - less weight, and lower idle means quieter on descent. Im rethinking my decision. Thanks Tucker! Great flight and review. I still would like to see you do a current electric review of the OPEN PPG, SPG140, please sir, and compare the two current standards? 👍🏻✌🏼😎 🪂
This is FANTASTIC! I started driving when cars all used carburetors, cold weather starting was stressful all through winter. I tell my kids how each car had its unique startup ritual: Choke out full, two pumps of the accelerator then open the throttle such a small amount you can only barely feel the accelerator. Turn the key whine whine whine pop, splutter again again again each time is closer to a flat battery and ringing the boss putting your job on the line. Then choke in full throttle in-case you flooded it. I hated this so much, then EFI came queue the angel music 🎶🎵🎶 Decades later I still get a kick out of starting cars first time every time, EFI is wonderful and I will be one of their early customer 😎👍
I kind of get it, but also ask myself whether there are really circumstances where you would restart the engine when you're THAT low? If you're low enough for those seconds to be an issue, wouldn't you also probably be too low to even attempt a restart, since if the engine stops uncommanded, why would you assume it even restarts at all? I would have thought in that case you should be busy getting the best glide and just land, not busy attempting a restart that may or may not work.
Realistically you shouldn't put yourself in a position where if your motor dies 4-6 seconds is all you have before a crash or any other problem occurs. It's not like previously a motor dying would be restarted in four seconds. Personally I'd say that is a non issue.
I wish there was a way to program it to disable that feature when you're in the air. The Scout had a similar safe start feature and there was a switch to disable it.
Hey Tucker, I recently purchased a Parajet Maverick with moster 185 and an Ozone Kona 27m and have been in training for the last few weeks here in Wisconsin. Just wanted to say thank you for inspiring me to get into the sport. I discovered your videos a little over a month ago and dove head first into this. I’m hoping to have my first flight within a week and am so excited. Also, I’m thinking having the powerband come in on the carb version sort of adds to the excitement factor. The efi might get a bit boring with how smooth the power is.
Got to take a close look at the one that Neil from Aviator Paramotor had at Jersey Shore for this weekend's Aurora Fly-In. I would love to see a Bluetooth app that runs on your phone instead of that console. Perhaps that will come at some point in the future.
Im so stoked it has an EGT sensor to control the mixture. I had Aviator's experimental 2019 EFI kit and it couldn't detect when running too hot so it melted a few pistons.
Also it's annoying that you're hitting 670C EGT and not even max rpms because Vitto says 650 is the max on their FAQ. I have an EGT sensor and my carbureted unit hits like 700C max.
I think they should put a small generator in it to keep battery charged, then it could more easily be a long distance craft. I think fuel injection is the way to go otherwise.
ABOUT TIME!!! This is a no brainer. Why isn't EVERYTHING EFI in this day and time? I would chose EFI over carb in all applications anytime. Almost no chance of a fouled plug. The little bit of extra weight and in my opinion, any extra cost is WELL worth it! As Always, May God Bless you and yours! 😇
I'm interested in a price comparison between this, and a conventional motor. You're right when you said you kind of need to be a mechanic to fly paramotor, and that will scare some people away. If Depending on how much more this is i can see people gravitating toward it just because it's more simple to use.
Every 2 stroke has powerband but that efi smoothens it out so its not that noticeable. And if u let 2 stroke idle too long it will bog and u need to rev it to clear it up and its because ur jetting is too rich so what it means is its giving too much fuel on idle or ur mixture is too rich.
That's pretty wild! I knew someone was going to go EFI eventually, since we now have chainsaws & lawn tractors with it, and have for at least a couple years now. I'm of the same mindset, especially having turned wrenches almost my entire life, 14 years professionally - I like simplicity, too. I also like, or rather, DEMAND reliability. EFI is fantastic ... when it works! When you have issues, troubleshooting becomes a bit more involved. That said, back in 2005 I bought a Polaris Sportsman 800 EFI. They used Bosch components for the FI system, thank God. I was very skeptical of EFI on an ATV, given the abuse they see, but over 14 years of ownership, I never had one issue! The mixture did start trending on the rich side with age, since there was no o2 sensor, which bothered me a bit. Too rich = lost power. Not having an easy way of diagnosing that, I just dealt with it. That's the unfortunate part. You can't really tinker. You're left with firing the parts cannon ($$$) and hoping that fixes something. Not the way I like to troubleshoot! I would LOVE LOVE LOVE an electronically adjustable fuel mixture, with EGT's to monitor your changes! That would be GREAT! You could have 2 settings - general, which will keep you from going too far in either direction, and expert, for guys like me who want to experiment for max power, or efficiency. But all in all, this looks promising. Time will tell how robust this system is. That's the problem with new electronics - they've got to be tested in the general public with all kinds of scenarios that engineers can't really duplicate. Then the bugs will reveal themselves. But for a "right-out-of-the-gate" presentation, Vitorazzi hit it right out of the park! Definitely a well-done first iteration!! Thanks for the vid, Tucker - much appreciated as always. Informative, AND fun!! 👍👍
We are super impressed too, especially with the thought, care and engineering Vittorazi have put into the EFI which they have been testing since 2019. Having visited their factory multiple times in recent months on this project, we think that they have nailed it.
I think the big drain on the battery will be trying to keep the rack pressurized. A full battery every time might be for the better. Nice to see this progress, it is the future. Look at trucks and cars. Pax.
Excellent demo Tucker! We all appreciate all you do for this sport. EFI sounds good. Maybe incorporate a disengage switch for the 4 second safety. Thanks again for all your informative and interesting videos. Also thank you again for talking to me about paramotoring at Lake Wales. You are awesome! Fly safe my friend.
About time. A couple years ago I bought my first EFI motorcycle, and wow. I'm glad for the years I spent learning and self maintaining traditional carburetor engines, but having a reliable push button start and trouble free smooth operation is great. However, should something go wrong, the troubleshooting process will likely be more complicated.
Great video Tucker. This information along with other sources convinced me to get one. This morning I sent my deposit and I'm officially in the queue. It's going on a Scout Carbon 1 and will hopefully get delivered by mid March. Thanks again, I hope all is going well for you in Arizona
I'm glad the tech is catching up to cars. My 2007 has a dot matrix display like that, with fuel economy rates. New ones now have an LCD touch screen. So that's coming next.
I'm on my first pgmi fuel injection motor bike. Fuel economy is great compared to carbs. Plus you get the right fueling for the conditions. At times more power too especially on cold days.
Last thought... Great flight engine more stable. I think more power could be had with more fueling and a good ECU. I'm sure a carbed engine goes through so much stress due to its limitations.
You need to consider the possibilities. You are now equipped for power adders. Nitrous, turbo, supercharger, tuning for individual props, and timing changes. You won't have to stick with a set of tuning parameters ever again. I bet high altitude cruising is going to he a massive game changer. This is huge!
OK, so a car has an alternator that charges up the battery. Is there no alternator on this motor that will keep the battery topped up? If not, why not? I'm very impressed with everything else that I see on it. I want to get into paramotoring and I think this would be a nice first investment. Ringo
@@error.418a yamaha yz125 stator is 400g. I bet everyone would happily take that little extra weight and not have to un plug and charge that battery EVERY SINGLE DAY. Imagine doing that to a car. It's just stupid
Below are four things that would be major points of concern. The first two are complete deal breakers for me. 1. The first is the 4 second delay with the throttle. I understand why they might have that in place while on the ground, but that could be deadly in the air during an emergency. There needs to be an override for when you're in the air. 2. No on board battery charger. The stator that provides current for the spark plug should have more than enough capacity to provide current for a battery charger. It seems all that would be needed would be a small step down transformer from the voltage regulator to match the output volts/amps of the charger. 3. Could they incorporate a redundant EFI module? When electronics fail they don't taper off. They die just like flipping an off switch. A redundant EFI would jack the price, but should at least be an option. 4. Have a redundant pull start.
I can tell just by hearing that engine how smooth it is. No loading. Nice, even power increase from idle up. At full throttle it sounds so "full". Looks like you found a winner. Your pillow is going to be damp when you have to give it back!! 😭😢😉🪂💺
Hey, i do have to say this, this is not the first fuel injecting motor (it is for footlaunch i think) but at home we have a flanders tandem trike, it also uses fuel injection with a pump! Good video so far nonetheless tho!
There's a company out of Atlanta. That has been testing these types of engines. The only problem they have had is the computer at high altitude. The cold seems to screw with the computer. And sends out multiple error codes. And its not like tou have a manual with you. Beyond that its the next Gen. when the price drops. Not for sale yet also.
Seems they could add a little more to that Battery pack to get more run time between charges or just to have a safety buffer if you're planning a 3-4 hour flight.
14:20 the safety feature for start with 4 seconds to allow you to use the throttle could be a bit concerning in an emergency situation where you need to turn on and throttle out immediately.
Man, do an icarus type cross country with that motor. Or a solid long delicious food run, sushi. Steak, seafood dinner...... at a place you haven't been too yet... even another fly to a spot to camp video now that you have the proper parameter camping set up.... good stuff. Keep up the fun videos.
That's a pretty cool opportunity. They'll get a lot of feedback from you and your friends. EFI is quite an improvement. It'll be fun to see what you come up with.
That's a pretty sweet rig! In the event the electronic ignition fails, do you still have pull-start capability as a backup? You could install a hard point for mounting a small tablet for navigation and air data on the left side. I like where that engine monitoring panel is located. Thanks for the video.
Sounds like that 4 second "safety feature" is gonna be an unsafety feature if the motor ever dies in the air... Motor dies and then you have to start it and wait 4 seconds, in which time you may well crash... Would be nice if they had a switch somewhere to turn it off...
That safety feature could kill you if in the air and you need immediate throttle. They need to disable it if you restart while in the air or let you manually disable it. Otherwise it is a liability.
I like that Vittorazi is trying new innovations. But I think it is too complicated. Have to have an on board battery that will eventually need replacing, have a computer and screen that probably costs a fortune, have to take care of the injectors and they might clog up. And that 4 second feature seems to be a pita. Like you mentioned, cross country fliers might like having a computer screen to better plan routs. I love fuel injection in cars, I hate direct injection. But here I am with a GDI engine in my car.
Great review Tucker! The way you talk, you remind me of my older brother growing up in the 70s and 80s. We’d snowboard (snow stickin) and skate a lot. He and his friends used a lot of the “stoked” jargon and other words you use. I grew up wanting to be like him. You seem like a fun guy to be around. Anyway, it would be cool if you flew around your landing spot and did a few “dead stick” tests to see how accurate the fuel gauge/stats are. I’m interested in longevity too and how long it takes before some things begin to fail of course. Anyway, good stuff! Thanks!
Pricing would obviously have to wait until they announce it proper, but it would be interesting to see how much it shares with the carbureted Moster in terms of parts.
#1) your 100% right, this is to get everyone into the sport without having to play A&P.. Very smart on their part. About time!!! #2) you never mentioned torque.... ass in seat.. any difference? Over all, it's about time. Can't believe it's taken any of these brands so long to do this... Will be nice to know if, now that it's running more efficiently, how long between TBO happens.. better it's better. Saving more $$$
We've done that. As Tucker says, it's similar power to the Moster 185 - but way smoother and way more user friendly. we hope to post some test videos on out channel about this soon.
Tucker, I am so envious of you. I wish i had the time and money to do this sport. I'm 55 years old with an 11 year old daughter. I think I'm too old and not enough money.
Can't help with the money but I am 57 and been flying just under a year. I am not very physically fit and have bad ankles from a skydiving accident 30 years ago. Look for used equipment and get yourself some training. If you wait, you will never do it...and that would be sad.
If it hasn't already been asked. Ehats the dry weight and loaded with fuel weight? I've been interested in efi for years and wasn't willing to experiment with bulky parts. Everything has gotten much smaller now. It's pretty cool. As for the charging system. There isnt much weight in adding a small charging coil and rotor. All in all it woukd actually weight less than 2 pounds. Probably even less if you machined most the weight off the rotor. Tucker, could you let us know the weight info? That'd be great.
Hey tucker, can you please use metric system? (Maybe some subtitle-like annotations)The numbers you give means nothing for me, and I'm really interested in the technical specs. Great video as always!
Interested to see how long that battery lasts from a full charge without charging, and do you get a warning when battery is low and will the engine just stop running if the battery dies? Thanks Tucker as always i love your content you always have the best out there!
Really great demo, I have been following the EFI status for awhile and their hasn't been much for an update since the picture anouncement they did. This is super cool. Thanks for taking the time. Did you end up finding the charger? Is it just like an RC battery balance charger?
Agree Tucker, it’s a more complicated engine. So now when it doesn’t start, you need to send engine or parts to the dealer… much like your car!! I like simple, albeit less efficient setups. Would you make the leap Tucker?
8lbs though! That's actually well over a gallon US of fuel! Hopefully that can be brought down a bunch in future R&D. How much does that battery weigh?
I'm optimistic about the EFI. Reliability on idle, longer duration for XC through increased fuel efficiency and potential diagnostic information to avoid engine outs before they reach that point. Personally I'm going to hold off to start. I'll give Vittorazi the benefit of the doubt that they have most of it right but we won't know what gremlins may lie within until pilots start logging long term real world hours on the machine. Hopefully the battery comes out at a reasonable price. I'd definitely want to have a spare on hand.
Love your videos Tucker! Ive been watching yiur videos for a while and actually know one of your friends that yiu showed in an old video :) He lets me use his one weel that he used to be a dealer for every time he would come to one of our Powered Parachute/Paramoter flyins
First, FADEC is the only way to fly. But wait, this is a piece of aviation equipment which has a battery which is not recharged in flight and without which it will NOT run? But it has an electric start? But no generator of any sort? EFI snow blowers don't need to be charged. This seems like a major lack.
I love that they are doing more with the engines but they can't even get the plastic airbox problems right yet. Looks cool but for a days flying id need multiple batteries. Not sure it's worth it yet
I have two scooters one EFI one carbureted. For a very specific temperature, altitude, or purpose a carburetor will be better. For 95% of people EFI will always be better in any situation that can handle the extras not something small like a chainsaw. Also EFI has codes so I know where too look I don't mind getting hands on but sometimes I don't know where to look.
I been waiting for EFI. Ive had carburetor fourwheelers before of course and EFi. The EFI is so much better. Way less work plus more power and better gas mileage
Absolutely needs a battery charge system. If the battery fails, the engine will not run and that is the end of flying no matter where you happen to be at the time.
You forgot another pro of EFI. Less emissions/smoke. EFI allows the pistoon to close off ehaust port before injecting fuel. It's where the some of the fuel efficiency comes from as well. Your not dumping raw fuel directly out of exhaust port as with carb 2 strokes
DHL wouldn't normally open the package, that's down to your customs guys checking it contains what the documentation says it does. Did it come with DHL branded repackage tape on the box?
As someone who was a mechanic at one point in time, I would say one of the biggest advantages that you did not list, is that ethanol will not take a toll on this fuel system the way it does on every other carbureted setup. I do not know enough about paragliding/paramotoring to know if y'all use special fuel, but if you use regular fuel that you get at a gas station that has ethanol in it, it will eventually take a toll on your carburetor. I've seen tests where people have tried to use fuel stabilizers to negate the effects of ethanol on the carburetor, and it works to a degree, but it does not 100% negate the effects. It's more like it cuts the damage in half. If I was going to run a carbureted setup, I would absolutely try to secure an ethanol-free fuel source. I am in Texas, and both Buccees and QT carry ethanol free fuel.
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What test/videos would you like to see with the new Moster EFI? Also, one correction. The battery is expected to last 7 hours, not 5.
Fuel burn comparison back to back, same wing and flying circuit/style. Comparison of EGT and CHT between EFI and carb. Fresh spark plug in each and then examination after running each.
High altitude performance test, test the climb rate as high as you're comfortable with a regular moster, then test climb rate at the same altitude with the efi
test the battery, specially on low temperatures, and pressures, you can use use your refrigerator for the initial case, and and ice bags around it on this summer. You can test how rainproof is the system. Adding electronics to the para-motor is a great start for tons of fun. Now the the autopilot and the auto landing and taking off are very close.
I'd like to see how much, if there is any; stray electrical noise to interfere with radio comms on the EFI version. Both 2M and PMR, or your local equivalent. Thanks.
stick a turbo on it!!!!
When snowmobiles started using EFI it changed everything for the better.
Same thing for personal watercraft. Paramotors and ultralights are a natural progression.
Yet, General aviation aircraft are still flying around with carbs on certified single engine aircraft
The first 50ccm scooters with injection were really bad at the beginning (purejet/ditech) sadly, always problems and very expensive spare parts. Most failure was not the injection itself but the pressure/fuel pump, it had a plastic piston inside which always broke under 5000 km..
Stihl even has an EFI chainsaw that is powerful and efficient
@@chrisdaniel1339 do you think they can fuel inject these nuts?
Tucker, you should fly it from ground to a high altitude (like above 10,000 feet). Interesting for people to see the EFI adjusting to altitude changes, in real-time.
THIS!!
And then you strap a small supercharger on there for mo' powa babeh
This!
1:33
I think a fuel efficiency test over a longer distance would be nice. Maybe you could revisit your idea of flying across Florida since you should have better efficiency.
Neil @Aviator did fly across Florida. There is a TH-cam video on the gas burn and mileage and hours of flying on the Aviator TH-cam channel.
That would be sick! I'm training at aviator PPG literally right now, tucker coming by would be awesome! It wouldn't happen right now though, the conditions are really only flyable in the morning, so not likely to happen in the few weeks he has it
Definitely! He should go for it again.
But he would have to do it alone cause no one else has that motor
@@AdrianCuyubambaDiaz that's not true. There's one here in aviator PPG in Florida, so surely there's a few more out there
I'm all for EFI, but they need to add a tiny stator. Could allow them add 1 or 2 USB ports to the display too.
Reliability, safety and weight is probably the reason for it.
As an older pilot the idea of a start process that does not take 50% of my initial energy is great. Was already thinking of swapping out to e_start but would wait for this.
Kinda strange that they didn't include a stator to keep the battery charged like is the norm on motorcycles and other powersports engines. Must be a weight saving reason.
They mentioned weight above, but really a few magnets and a coil probably wouldn't weigh much. SHould be an option perhaps.
Or a small RAT
@@sandrainthesky1011 Maybe a mini wind turbine to help charging the battery?
@@driojali think i heard it somewhere wind turbine charger didn't efficient enough
I would not want to charge a lithium battery on me while in the air and depending on said battery to run the engine. Just carry an extra battery. A lithium battery has to be charged gently for lack of better words. A stator will vary voltage with the RPMs and would be impossible to safely charge a lithium battery dependably.
My opinion as a mechanic is this is a great think for the guy who can't figure out a carb and for those who want more info/data (live data) to keep track on engine health an catch a issue before hand.
Also I think they should make the computer have a recorder function with a sd card so you can dumb data from flights just like in a airplane as a tool to check somthing that happen mid flight or if a accident happens etc.. For EXAMPLE it would be another tool to find out why a pilot had a accident or if you notice at 8,000 ft it starts getting hot an the data may show a lean issue creating heat an wear on the engine so now you can fix before it ruins something.
YES, THOSE ARE JUST EXAMPLES^ BUT..
If you could connect with you phone to have the data recorded alongside the avionics so you could see what happened at what part during a flight along with the speed & altitude plus gps data. Much like garmins features allows us to do in small planes.
I think that's something alot of people would want the option of having and would also make these appeal more to the mass thus boosting sales for the company.
Also Tucker the performance boost you didn't notice in the power area aside from smother power without a jumping power band, will be somthing more noticeable when going to the mountain's an haveing high alt take offs plus places with super dry or humid spots, an those who just like to go really high anywhere like 8k ft or higher I think the efi would show a better power performance boost over the standard carb in those situations, so like you said for the guy chasing a dragster like power , no this isn't it (although efi an mods can make great power easy) but the ease of use with auto tuning an haveing a constant air fuel ratio that the engine likes keeping it happy with peak performance in all conditions is where this thing will shine, not to mention the fuel savings.
With the air fuel ratio been better controlled an kept in a near perfect ratio from the efi will not old smooth the power out an save fuel but it will keep you from running lean if your tuned for high alt then drow down to sea level, which will help the engine last alot long, need less work when doing maintenance an should greatly extend the life of the head rings exhaust etc because we know 2 strokes need more maintenance checks or you can ruin the job or rings plus the need top end replacement from time to time due to the nature of the engine. Efi should help greatly to keep those who aren't very mechanical an ruin pistons from trying to tune a engine or run lean because they aren't sure what they are doing.
I love paramotors even though I don't fly, they are a awsome show of mechanical engineering an these are my opinions so please don't attack me with comments. But I would like to hear what you guys have to day about what I have tryed to talk about in this comment. Thanks, hope all is well for any readers!!!
Absolutely test the fuel economy! I had a 1992 Polaris 500 with EFI. It was incredible. No cold start issues, ran perfect at all temps and fuel economy was amazing but not 30% better. Maybe 5-10.
The 4 second restart feature is going to be a serious issue for someone that needs throttle right now.
Yeah, I'm unsure if there is a way to turn it on and off.
Yeah can you imagine an engine out and you fire the motor up just for it to quit when you give it throttle?
@@TuckerGott I don't paramotor, but if it has a barometer for altitude correction couldn't it theoretically turn off the safety when it's at altitude? Like it reads the barometer when you plug it in and calls that "ground" and then it should know when you are in the sky? Little MEMS barometers have some pretty crazy resolution...
Very bad indeed, should be optional...
@@pontiacg445should already have a mass airflow sensor which will give you all the info you would need to know if you were at altitude or not it like this idea and another thing I was thinking why not wireless throttle as well with cruise control
Its crazy, on that first climb it sounds totally different than any other engine I have heard, you can hear how smooth it runs. The Toyota of paramotors :D
Part of that does have to do with the 2.87 reduction and the helix propeller. But also the fuel injection.
@@TuckerGottFrom where you have learnt paragliding?
Hey Tuck... Nothing looks better than seeing you up there above all the troubles of the world.... You are always at your best when I see you in a "sky seat" fuel injected or gravity feed fuel ... Love you man !!!!
🎶 Lenny Kravits plays to your comment(Fly Away) 🎶
This time next year, anything less than a 2024 Factory R with EFI, will be an antique! I love watching this sport evolve.
Tucker Gott .. I can tell .... One of the nicest guys I wish I knew .... and wish some day I can get all I need to fly ..
Tremendous development for the PPG world. How exciting! Thanks for the news video Tucker! 😁
Yes! This is a game changer.
I almost went electric, except for the increased weight and limited flight time.
EFI addresses both those issues being more efficient, less fuel - less weight, and lower idle means quieter on descent.
Im rethinking my decision.
Thanks Tucker!
Great flight and review.
I still would like to see you do a current electric review of the OPEN PPG, SPG140, please sir, and compare the two current standards? 👍🏻✌🏼😎 🪂
This is FANTASTIC! I started driving when cars all used carburetors, cold weather starting was stressful all through winter. I tell my kids how each car had its unique startup ritual: Choke out full, two pumps of the accelerator then open the throttle such a small amount you can only barely feel the accelerator. Turn the key whine whine whine pop, splutter again again again each time is closer to a flat battery and ringing the boss putting your job on the line. Then choke in full throttle in-case you flooded it. I hated this so much, then EFI came queue the angel music 🎶🎵🎶 Decades later I still get a kick out of starting cars first time every time, EFI is wonderful and I will be one of their early customer 😎👍
I see that 4 sec restart feature being a real issue if flying low and you have a real engine out.
I agree. It comes from a good desire for safety, but there are better ways to ensure ground safety without sacrificing air safety.
I kind of get it, but also ask myself whether there are really circumstances where you would restart the engine when you're THAT low? If you're low enough for those seconds to be an issue, wouldn't you also probably be too low to even attempt a restart, since if the engine stops uncommanded, why would you assume it even restarts at all? I would have thought in that case you should be busy getting the best glide and just land, not busy attempting a restart that may or may not work.
@@ska042 it would be more of an inconvenience rather than safety issue
Realistically you shouldn't put yourself in a position where if your motor dies 4-6 seconds is all you have before a crash or any other problem occurs. It's not like previously a motor dying would be restarted in four seconds. Personally I'd say that is a non issue.
I wish there was a way to program it to disable that feature when you're in the air. The Scout had a similar safe start feature and there was a switch to disable it.
Seems like this might have been a real game changer for your cross-Florida flight.
Another great vid, Tucker! Thanks!
Hey Tucker, I recently purchased a Parajet Maverick with moster 185 and an Ozone Kona 27m and have been in training for the last few weeks here in Wisconsin. Just wanted to say thank you for inspiring me to get into the sport. I discovered your videos a little over a month ago and dove head first into this. I’m hoping to have my first flight within a week and am so excited. Also, I’m thinking having the powerband come in on the carb version sort of adds to the excitement factor. The efi might get a bit boring with how smooth the power is.
Got to take a close look at the one that Neil from Aviator Paramotor had at Jersey Shore for this weekend's Aurora Fly-In. I would love to see a Bluetooth app that runs on your phone instead of that console. Perhaps that will come at some point in the future.
Im so stoked it has an EGT sensor to control the mixture. I had Aviator's experimental 2019 EFI kit and it couldn't detect when running too hot so it melted a few pistons.
Also it's annoying that you're hitting 670C EGT and not even max rpms because Vitto says 650 is the max on their FAQ. I have an EGT sensor and my carbureted unit hits like 700C max.
I think they should put a small generator in it to keep battery charged, then it could more easily be a long distance craft. I think fuel injection is the way to go otherwise.
Exactly, a yamaha yz125 stator would do (400 grams)
This thing doesn't have a stator!?!? That'd be an idiotic design. I'm guessing it has one.
@@shawnd567it does not, when the battery dies so does the motor. You need to charge the battery before flight
ABOUT TIME!!! This is a no brainer. Why isn't EVERYTHING EFI in this day and time? I would chose EFI over carb in all applications anytime. Almost no chance of a fouled plug. The little bit of extra weight and in my opinion, any extra cost is WELL worth it! As Always, May God Bless you and yours! 😇
Tucker, pop over here to Devon in England & we will make a trippy video bro.
Now that you got EFI, you can probably add a mini NOS system or forced induction for additional power!! 🤣
Turbo charger
Procharger@@RyanGribble
@@MaddieGraffeo ummm no. A procharger requires more power to spin than a turbo charger due to the gear reduction.
You can't force air into a 2 stroke unless it has rotary intake and exhaust valves
Tucker I love orange so much🧡🧡 And the orange frame,S bar and propeller on that motor look awesome. I want one😂🧡 from Thailand
I'm interested in a price comparison between this, and a conventional motor. You're right when you said you kind of need to be a mechanic to fly paramotor, and that will scare some people away. If Depending on how much more this is i can see people gravitating toward it just because it's more simple to use.
Every 2 stroke has powerband but that efi smoothens it out so its not that noticeable. And if u let 2 stroke idle too long it will bog and u need to rev it to clear it up and its because ur jetting is too rich so what it means is its giving too much fuel on idle or ur mixture is too rich.
That's pretty wild! I knew someone was going to go EFI eventually, since we now have chainsaws & lawn tractors with it, and have for at least a couple years now.
I'm of the same mindset, especially having turned wrenches almost my entire life, 14 years professionally - I like simplicity, too. I also like, or rather, DEMAND reliability. EFI is fantastic ... when it works! When you have issues, troubleshooting becomes a bit more involved. That said, back in 2005 I bought a Polaris Sportsman 800 EFI. They used Bosch components for the FI system, thank God. I was very skeptical of EFI on an ATV, given the abuse they see, but over 14 years of ownership, I never had one issue! The mixture did start trending on the rich side with age, since there was no o2 sensor, which bothered me a bit. Too rich = lost power. Not having an easy way of diagnosing that, I just dealt with it. That's the unfortunate part. You can't really tinker. You're left with firing the parts cannon ($$$) and hoping that fixes something. Not the way I like to troubleshoot! I would LOVE LOVE LOVE an electronically adjustable fuel mixture, with EGT's to monitor your changes! That would be GREAT! You could have 2 settings - general, which will keep you from going too far in either direction, and expert, for guys like me who want to experiment for max power, or efficiency.
But all in all, this looks promising. Time will tell how robust this system is. That's the problem with new electronics - they've got to be tested in the general public with all kinds of scenarios that engineers can't really duplicate. Then the bugs will reveal themselves. But for a "right-out-of-the-gate" presentation, Vitorazzi hit it right out of the park! Definitely a well-done first iteration!!
Thanks for the vid, Tucker - much appreciated as always. Informative, AND fun!! 👍👍
We are super impressed too, especially with the thought, care and engineering Vittorazi have put into the EFI which they have been testing since 2019. Having visited their factory multiple times in recent months on this project, we think that they have nailed it.
Big question will be repair and maintenance costs and feasibility.
I think the big drain on the battery will be trying to keep the rack pressurized. A full battery every time might be for the better. Nice to see this progress, it is the future. Look at trucks and cars. Pax.
Excellent demo Tucker! We all appreciate all you do for this sport. EFI sounds good. Maybe incorporate a disengage switch for the 4 second safety. Thanks again for all your informative and interesting videos. Also thank you again for talking to me about paramotoring at Lake Wales. You are awesome! Fly safe my friend.
About time. A couple years ago I bought my first EFI motorcycle, and wow. I'm glad for the years I spent learning and self maintaining traditional carburetor engines, but having a reliable push button start and trouble free smooth operation is great. However, should something go wrong, the troubleshooting process will likely be more complicated.
Great video Tucker. This information along with other sources convinced me to get one. This morning I sent my deposit and I'm officially in the queue. It's going on a Scout Carbon 1 and will hopefully get delivered by mid March. Thanks again, I hope all is going well for you in Arizona
After watching a good many of your vids, I must say you have a pair of bowling balls down below. Awesome content, making me change my life path!
It’s been nice following this channel and their lovely channels, Great concept!
I’d love to know you better Rob, thats only if you dont mind cos you seem to be a very nice person with a great sense of humor
Can you take it up to altitude, and see how well it does in temps below freezing? From what I hear, if that battery dies - your flight is over.
I'm glad the tech is catching up to cars. My 2007 has a dot matrix display like that, with fuel economy rates. New ones now have an LCD touch screen. So that's coming next.
I've been futzing with my 185 Silent for hours and hours on my trike. Now I want to bin it and get that EFI!
I'm on my first pgmi fuel injection motor bike. Fuel economy is great compared to carbs. Plus you get the right fueling for the conditions. At times more power too especially on cold days.
Yer yer much more liner throttle control.
I think engines will last a lot longer too.
Last thought... Great flight engine more stable. I think more power could be had with more fueling and a good ECU. I'm sure a carbed engine goes through so much stress due to its limitations.
You need to consider the possibilities. You are now equipped for power adders. Nitrous, turbo, supercharger, tuning for individual props, and timing changes. You won't have to stick with a set of tuning parameters ever again. I bet high altitude cruising is going to he a massive game changer. This is huge!
Sounds great. Super smooth with plenty of power👍
OK, so a car has an alternator that charges up the battery. Is there no alternator on this motor that will keep the battery topped up? If not, why not?
I'm very impressed with everything else that I see on it. I want to get into paramotoring and I think this would be a nice first investment.
Ringo
Adds complexity and weight, also charging this style of battery is different from a car. Doesn't make it not doable, just has pros and cons.
@@error.418a yamaha yz125 stator is 400g. I bet everyone would happily take that little extra weight and not have to un plug and charge that battery EVERY SINGLE DAY. Imagine doing that to a car. It's just stupid
I assumed it was a weight/complexity thing.
Yep an hybrid starter/alternator is pretty simple...
Below are four things that would be major points of concern. The first two are complete deal breakers for me.
1. The first is the 4 second delay with the throttle. I understand why they might have that in place while on the ground, but that could be deadly in the air during an emergency. There needs to be an override for when you're in the air.
2. No on board battery charger. The stator that provides current for the spark plug should have more than enough capacity to provide current for a battery charger. It seems all that would be needed would be a small step down transformer from the voltage regulator to match the output volts/amps of the charger. 3. Could they incorporate a redundant EFI module? When electronics fail they don't taper off. They die just like flipping an off switch. A redundant EFI would jack the price, but should at least be an option.
4. Have a redundant pull start.
I can tell just by hearing that engine how smooth it is. No loading. Nice, even power increase from idle up. At full throttle it sounds so "full". Looks like you found a winner. Your pillow is going to be damp when you have to give it back!! 😭😢😉🪂💺
Hey, i do have to say this, this is not the first fuel injecting motor (it is for footlaunch i think) but at home we have a flanders tandem trike, it also uses fuel injection with a pump! Good video so far nonetheless tho!
There's a company out of Atlanta. That has been testing these types of engines. The only problem they have had is the computer at high altitude. The cold seems to screw with the computer. And sends out multiple error codes. And its not like tou have a manual with you. Beyond that its the next Gen. when the price drops. Not for sale yet also.
Seems they could add a little more to that Battery pack to get more run time between charges or just to have a safety buffer if you're planning a 3-4 hour flight.
In our tests, we are getting 8 hour plus flying time on one charge, even with multiple starts
14:20 the safety feature for start with 4 seconds to allow you to use the throttle could be a bit concerning in an emergency situation where you need to turn on and throttle out immediately.
Man, do an icarus type cross country with that motor. Or a solid long delicious food run, sushi. Steak, seafood dinner...... at a place you haven't been too yet... even another fly to a spot to camp video now that you have the proper parameter camping set up.... good stuff. Keep up the fun videos.
That's a pretty cool opportunity. They'll get a lot of feedback from you and your friends. EFI is quite an improvement. It'll be fun to see what you come up with.
That's a pretty sweet rig! In the event the electronic ignition fails, do you still have pull-start capability as a backup? You could install a hard point for mounting a small tablet for navigation and air data on the left side. I like where that engine monitoring panel is located. Thanks for the video.
Sounds like that 4 second "safety feature" is gonna be an unsafety feature if the motor ever dies in the air... Motor dies and then you have to start it and wait 4 seconds, in which time you may well crash... Would be nice if they had a switch somewhere to turn it off...
That safety feature could kill you if in the air and you need immediate throttle. They need to disable it if you restart while in the air or let you manually disable it. Otherwise it is a liability.
I like that Vittorazi is trying new innovations. But I think it is too complicated. Have to have an on board battery that will eventually need replacing, have a computer and screen that probably costs a fortune, have to take care of the injectors and they might clog up. And that 4 second feature seems to be a pita. Like you mentioned, cross country fliers might like having a computer screen to better plan routs.
I love fuel injection in cars, I hate direct injection. But here I am with a GDI engine in my car.
Game changer. I not mechanically inclined whatsoever. I think you will find more people getting involved in the sport.
Reliable starting and fuel delivery, more efficient. Nuf said.
Great review Tucker! The way you talk, you remind me of my older brother growing up in the 70s and 80s. We’d snowboard (snow stickin) and skate a lot. He and his friends used a lot of the “stoked” jargon and other words you use. I grew up wanting to be like him. You seem like a fun guy to be around. Anyway, it would be cool if you flew around your landing spot and did a few “dead stick” tests to see how accurate the fuel gauge/stats are. I’m interested in longevity too and how long it takes before some things begin to fail of course. Anyway, good stuff! Thanks!
First 2-stroke paramotor with EFI, maybe, but I've had a 4-stroke Intruder 250 for several years and it has EFI /shrug
A really exact measure of how good it is at telling you how much fuel/time you have would be something.
Pricing would obviously have to wait until they announce it proper, but it would be interesting to see how much it shares with the carbureted Moster in terms of parts.
#1) your 100% right, this is to get everyone into the sport without having to play A&P..
Very smart on their part. About time!!!
#2) you never mentioned torque.... ass in seat.. any difference?
Over all, it's about time.
Can't believe it's taken any of these brands so long to do this...
Will be nice to know if, now that it's running more efficiently, how long between TBO happens.. better it's better. Saving more $$$
High altitude. Get a small bottle of oxygen and hit 20,000 feet Tucker. Own the record...
You should put this on a thrust table and compare it to the standard Moster 185 and Factory-R with the same prop.
We've done that. As Tucker says, it's similar power to the Moster 185 - but way smoother and way more user friendly. we hope to post some test videos on out channel about this soon.
Tucker,
I am so envious of you. I wish i had the time and money to do this sport. I'm 55 years old with an 11 year old daughter.
I think I'm too old and not enough money.
Can't help with the money but I am 57 and been flying just under a year. I am not very physically fit and have bad ankles from a skydiving accident 30 years ago. Look for used equipment and get yourself some training. If you wait, you will never do it...and that would be sad.
Another great Video, Tucker. I'm not flying, but it seems like the EFI is a great move. ❤
If it hasn't already been asked. Ehats the dry weight and loaded with fuel weight? I've been interested in efi for years and wasn't willing to experiment with bulky parts. Everything has gotten much smaller now. It's pretty cool. As for the charging system. There isnt much weight in adding a small charging coil and rotor. All in all it woukd actually weight less than 2 pounds. Probably even less if you machined most the weight off the rotor. Tucker, could you let us know the weight info? That'd be great.
Let's see what Chicanic has to say about it! Sounds great! Now let's try a mult-cylinder
lawnmower mechanic at best.
I put a holley sniper efi on my mopar, an absolute game changer
Tucker terrific! Great review. Nice insight!! I think you’ve done this before…🤔😊
Absolutely you will have to know a bit about mechanics…how do we recharge the battery or did I miss something….
I'm waiting to see this adapted to the Atom 80. Just wondering what the added new weight on that rig will be.
Hey tucker, can you please use metric system? (Maybe some subtitle-like annotations)The numbers you give means nothing for me, and I'm really interested in the technical specs. Great video as always!
If you really want to do cross country with EFI they need to come up with a RAT (Ram Air Turbine) generator to keep a battery topped up.
Interested to see how long that battery lasts from a full charge without charging, and do you get a warning when battery is low and will the engine just stop running if the battery dies? Thanks Tucker as always i love your content you always have the best out there!
I wish it wasn’t so expensive to get into this hobby, but that motor did seem to have nice features with the starting & gauges
Really great demo, I have been following the EFI status for awhile and their hasn't been much for an update since the picture anouncement they did. This is super cool. Thanks for taking the time. Did you end up finding the charger? Is it just like an RC battery balance charger?
Very exciting new tech coming out, cool too see
Put em in the big walk-in fridge (that, you know, everyone has) and cold start test side by side carb vs EFI!
Agree Tucker, it’s a more complicated engine. So now when it doesn’t start, you need to send engine or parts to the dealer… much like your car!! I like simple, albeit less efficient setups. Would you make the leap Tucker?
8lbs though! That's actually well over a gallon US of fuel! Hopefully that can be brought down a bunch in future R&D. How much does that battery weigh?
Try some tuning of the EFI mapping in the computer to see if you can squeeze out some more juice!
I'm optimistic about the EFI. Reliability on idle, longer duration for XC through increased fuel efficiency and potential diagnostic information to avoid engine outs before they reach that point. Personally I'm going to hold off to start. I'll give Vittorazi the benefit of the doubt that they have most of it right but we won't know what gremlins may lie within until pilots start logging long term real world hours on the machine. Hopefully the battery comes out at a reasonable price. I'd definitely want to have a spare on hand.
Cool! You get to play with all the great stuff.
now you need a charging system for the battery, stator and regulator.
I find it unbelievable that they didn't built it at first
@@cotasaSeriously that blows my mind that this wouldn't be included. Absolutely terrible design.
Love your videos Tucker! Ive been watching yiur videos for a while and actually know one of your friends that yiu showed in an old video :) He lets me use his one weel that he used to be a dealer for every time he would come to one of our Powered Parachute/Paramoter flyins
Thanks Tucker!! Love your videos!
Great review Tucker! Hopefully, they do the same to the Atom 80 someday
It’s been nice following this channel and their lovely channels, Great concept!
I’d love to know you better Mark, thats only if you dont mind cos you seem to be a very nice person with a great sense of humor
Someone send tucker an electric demo. I’m sure they both will be competing for the same market in 5 years.
Please do a Polini 202 comparison video. I'm so curious how they stack up against one another.
First, FADEC is the only way to fly. But wait, this is a piece of aviation equipment which has a battery which is not recharged in flight and without which it will NOT run? But it has an electric start? But no generator of any sort? EFI snow blowers don't need to be charged. This seems like a major lack.
you should come to norway and fly! its really fun flying through the fjords. you're allowed to fly for up to 6 months as a guest pilot
I love that they are doing more with the engines but they can't even get the plastic airbox problems right yet. Looks cool but for a days flying id need multiple batteries. Not sure it's worth it yet
I have two scooters one EFI one carbureted. For a very specific temperature, altitude, or purpose a carburetor will be better. For 95% of people EFI will always be better in any situation that can handle the extras not something small like a chainsaw.
Also EFI has codes so I know where too look I don't mind getting hands on but sometimes I don't know where to look.
I been waiting for EFI. Ive had carburetor fourwheelers before of course and EFi. The EFI is so much better. Way less work plus more power and better gas mileage
Absolutely needs a battery charge system. If the battery fails, the engine will not run and that is the end of flying no matter where you happen to be at the time.
That saftey feature...needs to be connected to the squat switch. 4 seconds could seem like an eternity after an air restart.
You forgot another pro of EFI. Less emissions/smoke. EFI allows the pistoon to close off ehaust port before injecting fuel. It's where the some of the fuel efficiency comes from as well. Your not dumping raw fuel directly out of exhaust port as with carb 2 strokes
DHL wouldn't normally open the package, that's down to your customs guys checking it contains what the documentation says it does. Did it come with DHL branded repackage tape on the box?
As someone who was a mechanic at one point in time, I would say one of the biggest advantages that you did not list, is that ethanol will not take a toll on this fuel system the way it does on every other carbureted setup. I do not know enough about paragliding/paramotoring to know if y'all use special fuel, but if you use regular fuel that you get at a gas station that has ethanol in it, it will eventually take a toll on your carburetor. I've seen tests where people have tried to use fuel stabilizers to negate the effects of ethanol on the carburetor, and it works to a degree, but it does not 100% negate the effects. It's more like it cuts the damage in half. If I was going to run a carbureted setup, I would absolutely try to secure an ethanol-free fuel source. I am in Texas, and both Buccees and QT carry ethanol free fuel.
I use ethanol free gas from Wawa. Stores longer and better too.
Great video! Smooth ride! Thank u for sharing!!❤