Island Packet 27 Sailboat Electric Conversion
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 4 ก.ค. 2024
- A brief overview of the electric-drive system on my 1988 Island Packet 27 sailboat. If you are considering a similar conversion, I hope this video helps and please reach out if you have any questions about my conversion and I'd love to help!
electric sailboat conversion, solar sailboat, electric Island Packet, how to convert your sailboat to electric, electric motor installation, thunderstruck motor installation
#electricsailboat #electricsailboatconversion #diyboat #thunderstruck-ev #overkillsolar #dakotalithium - แนวปฏิบัติและการใช้ชีวิต
Thanks very much for sharing incl all the information - really appreciated. I really liked that it was "all in" so including motor details, battery details, solar details and most importantly a smile when you said that it simply feels great to leave the harbour without diesel noise and smell. Thanks and all the best for your sailing and silent motoring. Cheers from Southern Germany.
I love sailing, but hate having to motor. The smell of diesel exhaust just gets to me. Nice job. Hope you and the family have many years of sailing together. 👍👍👍
Thanks for sharing. I’m in the process of purchasing an IP27, will definitely pull out the engine sell it, use the proceeds to go E. This is the most easiest and affordable set up I’ve seen, so yes I will go this way. Thanks again for sharing.
Thank you for sharing this, very informative as I've looked at Thunderstruck's kits as well but great to see real world experience!
Just spent the weekend drilling the last few round stainless steel end piece. Thankfully I bought a set of same size drills because its tough stuff even going slowly and with oil to keep it cool.
Thanks for doing this! inboard is typically < 40% efficient due to small prop which offers huge room for improvement. Its like retrofitting a powerboat with sails to spin the same shaft. I achieve 3 knots at 300 watts with no sails up on my 33ft boat using a $100 ebike hub motor spinning 32 inch carbon prop. You could double the efficiency of this setup, cut motor, battery, solar, cost and weight in half and have the same range and performance.
just a larger prop you're suggesting? I have been thinking of experimenting with different prop sizes next.
@@dave80399 It wont fit on the inboard shaft. You need something with the size of fish/whale tail compared to body size compared to your boat size. Look at para motor propellers, you can get a carbon one in 50-60 inch diameter
@@charonstyxferryman All valid points from Sean, Dave, Lars:
1. A larger prop will be more efficient, but it's also more of a risk for damage, especially if plastic, and if it doesn't feather will cause more drag under sail (without regen).
2. A smaller, feathering, metal prop won't be as efficient, but will be more resistant to damage, and will be more efficient when under sail only.
All things engineering are tradeoffs of different kinds.
For local sailing a larger plastic prop may be ok. For world cruising, a more conventional prop is probably better due to being more reliable, if less efficient.
Since most sailboats spend more time sailing than motoring, a feathering prop is probably more efficient overall in terms of drag, time, speed, etc.
Thank you, great to see how electric works well, enjoy our beautiful Ocean Planet.
I definitely made the mistake of the orientation of the heat sink. Love your boat! GJ on the installation.
Great job I love the sound difference . I will try to do this to my boat
Hope you never get into a situation where you have to claw off a lee shore.
Wow, what a great video. So excited to see this! I have a 1985 IP27 (hull #15). Would love to take on this project of converting to electric. Also considering a hybrid diesel/electric. GREAT videos!
Very nice install.
Great video. We are an electric drive Bristol 35.5.
Dave thank you for this video, fellow Florida Island packet owner here (1986 IP31). I plan to do the same install over the next year or so!
Thanks so much and let me know how the install goes.
@@dave80399 I'll need to pick your brain for some expertise if that's OK
@@jjjinx1414 definitely!
@@dave80399 Hi Dave I was wondering if you could let me know what the process was like to sell your yanmar, if you did sell it. Was it easy to sell?
I actually gave it away but there's a market for them.
Thank you for sharing.
Great work here. Have you experimented with different propeller pitch and diameter options to really fine tune the thrust to current ratio?
not really. I have a 2:1 ratio and it seems to perform well. I may experiment at a later time.
Excellent job on the conversion, excellent review of what you've done. I just purchased a 1990 IP27 (used to own an IP380 but with advancing age decided to downsize). The motor is running fine now but having watched what you've done, when it needs replacing I think I'll go electric rather than another diesel. I'm in Boston. If you're somewhere nearby I'd love to come by and see it in person
Thanks
--Reuben
Thanks bud.... You'll never go back to diesel. I'm in Central Florida so if you're ever down here come check it out!
I spend the winter in Sarasota. I’ll contact you in a few months
@@dave80399 I"m down in Sarasota for the winter and would love to come visit you and see your boat and its systems whenever its convenient for you.
@@reubenmezrich for sure any evening or weekend I can show you the motor and charging systems. The setup is scalable to larger or smaller boats and it's working great. Email me to make plans davidjohnbaker01@gmail.com
Thanks for sharing, nice clean install. Showing your 'real-world' power usage helps, hoping you can also show power draw with a 20+ knot head wind when you get a chance. I'm babying my 40 year old yanmar for now as it's running good (original to my 1982 28' Albin Cumulus) but definitely lining up a similar install next year , I'm thinking for my sailing style 48v, 200ah should do, usage will be in and our of marina with portable generator as backup for the occasional short coastal sailing as needed. One question, would you still go with your battery cell approach or instead get 12v or 24v batteries and connect in series/parallel for 48v given current price points?
power consumption increases in a strong head wind. I have seen it increase by as much as 30%. I typically don't spend long periods motoring into the wind though. For that I would prefer diesel.
Hey!
Great systems tour of your conversion/install.
Can you share whether the system you put in will do regeneration/recharging from the prop when undersail by canvas?
It does regenerate energy under sail and I plan to do a follow up video to show that and my solar and shore power systems because I've had so many people ask. Thanks for watching!
This is brilliant. Thank you so much for putting this together. I have a 1985 IP27 (hull #3). I would love to do this at some point in the future. Right now, I'm rebuilding my boat and focused on just getting it in the water. 😂
Thank you! You will love electric drive so keep me posted and let me know if I can help!
I have looked into this many times and talked with many who have done the conversion and 95% regret it so much as now the fear of long passages is real.
I'm surprised...I have yet to find a single person who regrets converting to electric. The trick is you have to do it right with adequate battery capacity. Diesel is now old, outdated technology.
Thank you for sharing this. I don’t own a sailboat but I did have the opportunity to sail on one to Catalina Island when I was a teenager and I vividly remember how noisy and stinky the diesel engine was. If I was ever to purchase a sailboat I would definitely want to put an electric motor in it like this. Do you mind if I ask how much the conversion cost you all together?
Cool setup. Does the 660W, 60V solar imply you can get (ideally) 10-11A of current from the solar for charging, motoring etc? Given the available solar peaks during the day, how long does it take to recharge from a 30% discharge (assuming 10h @ 3kt) on solar? Curious and trying not to ask a dumb question.
So I have 350 amp hour capacity so charging at 20 amps would take me about 5 hours if I was down 30%. I rarely get below 92% on the battery monitor though because I mostly sail and while sailing I am using solar and prop regen as I am moving. I never plug in my fast charger because a day at the slip has me fully recharged. Now when i do more of my longer cruising this will be more of a challenge, however I still never spend a day motoring. I only cruise when the conditions allow me to mostly sail or motor sail. that is a main requirement of going electric in my opinion. Motoring 2-3 days straight into the wind is not really appropriate for electric.
Thank you for making this and looks a great improvement. Just one suggestion, the fittings you have used o mount the panels to the stainless steel tube have a small grub screw to hold the tube. After two years I have noticed that some of mine are loose. I am also concerned how they will hold in a real blow, therefore have drilled, tapped and added a cap screw to each one. Drilling stainless is daunting, but firm pressure, a drop of oil and taking time worked well even with a battery drill. Adding thread locker to the cap screws means they are not coming out and the frame come apart at the wrong moment.
Another way to do it would be with cross pins (pins at right angles, longitudinally separated on the shaft). Or keys, or spine drive, etc.
@@LoanwordEggcorn Don't think that would work on stainless steel tube, not sure how you could make a spline or keyway. Best to just drill the stainless fittings and then tap the hole. A 5mm hole is easy enough to drill with good quality sharp drills going slowly with firm pressure.
@@pete9501 Thanks, forgot it was tubing and not solid rod. To use cross pins we'd need to weld in steel crosstubes or bushings for the pins to interface with the tube, so probably too complex.
Just wanted to thank you for putting this video together...a lot of good information. I'm really impressed by how quiet the motor is. The one thing that was no talked about was the cost. So, I was wondering, what was the cost of the conversion$$?? Thanks again making this video. I'm sure it will be helpful to many others who are interested in doing a conversion as well. James Zi
The total cost for this conversion was around $6000.
Definitely the way to go! I have a 86 Ericson 28. The Universal/Kubota is actually pretty good. But we burn about 5 gallons of diesel in 24months 😆. If/when it needs to be rebuilt electric definitely is the replacement.
Are you able to recoop power under sail? I know others all say that 6knots is about where they see good power recovery under sail. Which case your boat and mine only hit 6 knots going down hill with a hurricane pushing it😆
I start regenerating about 2 amps around 4.1kts and 6 kts it is spinning really good to give about 3amps. Solar is what does most of my charging.
Do you get any regenerative power when sailing? I would be curious if that could be done to help increase the charging, especially at night.
Hi Dave, where in Florida are you? I am in the Melbourne area with an IP380. I wonder if Thunder Struck would have something powerful enough for a larger boat?
Yes I'm just up the way from you in Titusville. You could use the thunderstruck 18kw kit. I was looking at an IP38 in Melbourne but it sold before I could buy it so sticking with my 27! Let me know if you need help with your conversion... You'll never go back to diesel!
Did you have any problems with customs when shopping on aliexpess? Could the golf cart propulsion be transferred (modernized) into electric boat propulsion? Isn't the chain (Una) coupling noisy and loose? What part carries the linear load of the propeller/shaft?
no problems at all other than the long wait for the battery cells to clear customs. it took about 3 months to get the cells. The chain coupling is not noisy...it has a thrust bearing inside to carry that load.
Hello,
Your conversion looked very professional. Was that a kit or did you design that yourself? I have noticed a lot of cruisers converting to some kind of electric drive system. Do you know if the costs are similar? Btw what was the cost of the system that you installed? And is the motor you used AC or DC?
Thanks
I designed some of it but the motor and controller came from thunderstruck. 10 kw, 48v DC. I built my own battery for about $2100 and the motor and controller were about $3000. With solar panels, instruments, aluminum parts it was about another additional $1000.
I like my air cooled Chinese 168F diesel. It's much lighter and cheaper than electric and it charges a battery well. The dry hot air is welcome.
Hello, I was just curious how are you lubricating/cooling your shaft drive? Our IP has a liquid sea water coolant line from motor to shaft drive to keep area cool during use. How are you doing this with your conversion?
you must have the dripless packing seal. I have the original that drips into the bilge. the on;y difference with the shaft is that the electric motor connects to the shaft via flexible coupling.
Thanks to Dave,
thanks for the data, I'm working on converting my Hurley 27 myself. Your data confirmed my design, I had thought that 3kW engine power should be enough, but many fellow sailors have persuaded me to buy 5kW. This may give me a little more thrust in extreme situations.
Can you say something about the transmission ratio, the speeds and your Propelelr?
Many greetings
Philipp
I second that request! Did you have to change the propeller, or were you able to use the existing one with a change of drive ratio? Excellent video Dave, fast paced and informative without distracting verbiage. Definitely encouraged me to go electric! Many thanks!
Thanks guys. I am using my original prop with a 2:1 reduction for efficiency. I do plan to experiment with other prop types and efficiencies and I will post a video when I do so that I can share what I learn with you guys to hopefully save you the hassle of going through it too. Thanks!
Hi Dave, thanks for the lovely video (nice music too!). May I ask you a question: Why does the energy consumption intensify so hysterically even by a slight increase in acceleration? Same goes for electrically powered cars as well?
The power curve is exponential and not linear and it's really a matter of physics.
Have you had any problems with corrosion that required maintenance of the electrical components? Your boat is a perfect boat.
👍
The conversion of marine crafts could be funded similar to land based vehicles, to support good health and clean seas.
Such a great project.
I saw on the specs that you have 350 amps storage, and the draw is 12-amps at 3-knots.
350 amps / 12-amps per hour =~ 29-hours
29-hours x 3-knots per hour = ~ 87-nautical miles
Are my calculations incorrect?
Awesome!! How far do you live from the marina ? That’s always been a drag for me , 1 hour away. Nice D hat btw
I am about 10 minutes away from my marina. Now that I don't have a diesel to run once or twice a week I can leave the boat without having to check on it for weeks at a time. much lower maintenance than my old diesel.
Thanks for a great overview. Documents like this seem simple, but help give folks a GREAT head start on doing their own conversions.
Looks like you work in the space industry. I can tell from the Kapton tape. :)
For info, the thing you're calling a contact is called a contactor. It's essentially a big power relay in a sealed container with arc quenching gas usually.
The motor is so quiet. Would probably be even quieter with a different prop.
Don't know if you answered it already, but what brand of cell did you get, and from which supplier? Would you recommend them again?
Thanks! Yes I know about the relay.....I always call it a contact LOL. I do work in the space industry....good catch! The battery cells I bought came from 2 vendors: Wullils (recommend) and Varicore (don't recommend). Thanks so much for watching!
@@dave80399 Thanks much Dave!
Hi Dave,
Thank you for your informative video.
Unlike you, I'm not an electrical engineer. My expertise with electrical devices is pretty much limited to turning on light and power switches. However, I'm about to embark on converting my 57-foot, 28-tonne sailing yacht to electric drive. Where do I start? What size motor should I use? I have plenty of room for batteries and solar panels. In fact, I could probably generate around 4 kW of solar power.
Thanks again,
Glenn
You'll probably need a 40-50kw system. What's the draft and beam? Or do you know your waterline length and I can calculate your speed efficiencies. What is the original engine in your boat? You will not regret going electric.
Quick question. How do you calculate the battery draw. I’m thinking about a 30’ (#10,000) running an equivalent 10hp motor.
You'll need to know your consumption. So for example with no sun I find that I'm drawing about 30 amps to go 4kts. My battery monitor tells me that via shunting power and providing a reading. You won't be able to calculate what you'll use per speed accurately without testing and monitoring because there are so many variables like water length, keel type, conditions, motor consumption and efficiency etc. The renogy battery monitor and shunt will do it for you and it's only $75
Hey Dave, great to see the video. Chris Smith here, we've compared a few notes in the facebook group. It looks like you're doing a little better than me with performance. I don't get 3 knots from 8 amps on my Pearson 28. I suspect my prop is not optimized. What are you using for a prop? Did you change it, or stick with what you had before? I didn't realize you were an EE. I would have asked you more questions! ;) I've still got some more updates to do after we haul out for the season up here in New England. Maybe I'll hit you up then.
Hey thanks so much! I kept my original 2-blade prop. my performance is highly dependent on conditions but i notice that I need to double amperage for every knot of speed roughly.
@@dave80399 yeah, I totally concur about the conditions. I had to run at 50-60A one day last week to make 2 knots into a 15-20 knot headwind as we came back into port. I think the tide was going out at the same time. I was glad we weren't too far out.
Been looking at Thunderstruck for sometime. I have a trailer motorsailer 23 foot, 3400 lbs. It came with a 10 hp Atomic 2 gas motor. I had planned to install a Yanmar 2GM-13 until now. Did you sell your Yanmar? Mine needs assembled but I need to sell it to proceed. How do I contact you directly?
my yanmar is gone...i gave it to the guys who took it out....was a fair trade for their labor LOL
Did thunder struck recommend a prop change? Are you still using the original? Seams to me a more suitable prop may improve efficiency and boat speed.
I am still using the original but I do plan to experiment a little with that next. I am doing 4 kts at 30-40 amps so that gives me about 10 hours of run time. more than enough for coastal cruising. going 5 or 6 kts greatly decreases efficiency but you are right, i may be able to improve upon that with a different prop. Will post a video when I do that! Thanks!
How much did it cost you to make change... your video was nicely done... John, Ontario, Canada....
Hey John I'm from Ontario originally too (Windsor). Everything cost me about $6000 including the battery and motor set.
Nice! Maybee a stupid question but im just a plumber 😉 can your solar panels charge your batterys to 100% or do you need juice from the harbour to that. If not how long does it take. Best regards from sweden
yes they are 70v so they have no trouble getting the battery to 54v
Ok thats realy cool👌
Hello, so after 2 yrs with this new motor, would you have done anything differently? And can you offer a details. This stuff is constantly improving...
After two years I'm super happy with the setup. I would do a few things differently. 1-i would reduce my battery capacity. I've never run below 50%. 2-I would remove my auxiliary/backup battery. Never used it. One other thing is I would maybe add a 12v fan and vent to better cool the motor. I did have the motor temp sensor shut down the motor once because I ran it really hot pushing about 100xmps for a couple of hours on a hot day.
What is the propeller size/pitch? Did you change it due to different torque? Thank you.
do you have your dinghy motor setup as a backup in case electric motor has a problem?
I suppose I could use my dinghy and side tie to tow in if necessary but electric motors are super reliable and simple so rarely have problems.
Wondering what do you use for solar controller?
I use the victron 100/30 MPPT controller. There's one version that works up to 48v
Very interesting conversion of a competent mini yacht. Worth it just for quiet smoke free running. Could you give us a ball park estimate of the cost?
He gave you a parts list for his boat. You can Google it.
@@TOMVUTHEPIMP missed that. Thanks.
Have you configured for regeneration while sailing?
Yes I do get some regen at 4.1 kts and I'm doing another video about that soon because I've had so many questions about it.
Those solar panels are discontinued what would be a good alternative in what’s currently available?
This is a good alternative a1solarstore.com/q-cells-480w-solar-panel-156-cells-q.peak-duo-xl-g10.3-bfg.html
I have an IP29. Not way I could get far with only 3 knots. I dont mind slow when the weather is good. But have been caught in current and heavy weather and situations I need some power.
I have a lot more power than I did with my diesel and I can go a lot faster than 3kts.
Why did you choose the 10kw motor? Looks like the most you're ever using is 2500w. A motor running at that small of a percentage of the max power is going to be pretty inefficient. Were you surprised how little power it took to get you to hull speed?
The spare power is needed to get through waves and headwind.
The propeller. You did the calculations on that?
Yes I did and my original prop is still the most efficient.
Hi Dave nice vid, any idea of the cost of this system ? Thanks
Without my mistakes and wasted money I would say around $6000 for everything.
What is your top speed? For instance when running through a channel with traffic. Will it fight an outbound tide when returning to port?
Also those that don't like the eclectic are probably not die hard sailors and like to run the engine a lot. Electric is just for maneuvering in and out of port and occasional low wind conditions. It's a very different experience than some are expecting.
I have gone over 6kts but it draws high current so prefer to keep it around 5. My diesel only ever got me up to 5 max. Yes true sailors don't need to motor much!
A couple of comments. 1. I wonder about the "kill switch" you installed. Looking at the specs for that type of switch I see that they are generally rated for 48V DC maximum, not 48VDC nominal. Your battery will operate above 48VDC, so you are above the voltage rating for the switch. Yes I am aware that some of the Chinese knock off switches claim 60 and even 72VDC rarings, but I question those ratings given that the quality switches (Blue Seas) are only rated for 48 VDC. Just something for you to check into. 2. The ABYC (American Boat and Yacht Council which establishes standards for boat systems has just recently issued a new standard for Lithium Iron Phosphate battery installs (standard E-13). Since the batteries and all components in the battery system are required to be UL listed (or meet equivalent european or SAE standards to meet the ABYC standard, I am sure your home built battery does not comply with the standard. Yes the ABYC standards are "voluntary", but most insurance companies view them as mandatory. You need to check with your insurer to see if your battery install needs to meet the new ABYC standard. If your insurer requires it to meet the ABYC standard your install may void your insurance should you have a claim. Just an other thing to check on. There are batteries that meet the ABYC requirements, but they are EXPENSIVE.
As far as a bigger/different prop goes, you will be limited by prop tip clearance requirements (typically 10% of prop diameter). That will limit how big a prop you can install. In addition maximum prop rotation speed is limited by the speed at which cavitation occurs. You likely want to keep your prop speed below 1,500 rpm. Maximum prop rpm depends on prop diameter and depth of the prop. Going to a new prop (different diameter, disc area ratio, diameter and possible blade count) will require prop calculations specific to your boat and engine. The calculations are not complex, but they do take some time to program and you will need a bit of information about your hull (displacement, wetted surface area, LWL, LWB, etc.). Ideally you want your prop to be able to handle about 90-95% of engine power at the prop's maximum RPM.
koolio...can you reach your hull speed?
yes I can but I prefer to stay one knot lower to conserve range. For every knot of speed you double your amperage draw!
Think you’ll ever sell this boat ?
I may move up some day. No time soon though I don't think.
Love the content and your videos. So please don't get mad when I say this. When you explain stuff and speak while recording yourself, you say "uhh & uhm" a lot, almost every 3rd-5th word. Don't know if it's a nervous tick or subconscious but it's the only thing I'd change about your content. Just watch this video and you'll notice what I'm saying. Hope you're having a great day. Keep up the amazing work!
Thanks bud...yea I'm not the greatest presenter LOL.
You threw away the Yanmar and put how much money into this?
Around $6000. Great investment considering I'm no longer maintaining a diesel engine nor buying any fuel. And nothing beats the reliability of an electric motor especially when compared to a diesel engine.
Sure hope you didn't just give away that diesel engine.. Even at scrap price they're worth enough to help fund the conversion.. Really think that electric is the way to go when it comes to sailboats.. the sun didn't seem to be shining to bright that day either so with sunshine you can run it and not put much strain on the battery bank I'm guessing..
Contactor, Contactor not contact....
Way to take a respectable sailboat, and turn it into a hunk of junk
Why would you make an absolutely miserable comment like this? Get some help.
@steveburke7675 cat calling the kettle black. Mind your own business. I happen to know for a fact, that any value the boat did have, is now gone. Go get your own help. I'm just fine.
@@jeffreyalberson9742 I'm responding to a public comment brainiac... It IS my business.