Electric drive is the greenest and most flexible. If your AC motor supports hydrogeneration (regeneration) then you can recharge simply by sailing with the motor engaged. So for example, the energy used to motor away from a marina or anchorage can be recovered by raising the sails and letting the wind turn the motor as a generator. In addition batteries can be recharged from solar, generator, shore power, windmill, etc. Electric drive fits the ethos of sailing extremely well by using what nature provides. It works in harmony with nature instead of fighting against it. AC motors are more efficient near full power, so you were better off with the smaller motor.
I have a 1979 Newport Mkii 30 ft sailboat Electric , named Electra. We love it, when we sail it regenerates our batteries.. we bought the entire boat for 12,000 from Mike Gunning So Electric Yachts. Newport CA. We replaced our batteries after 10yrs. Love it.
This,,, has been so far the most detailed and easy to understand video. Thank you so so much Please keep on the good work. I am about to start a project of my own really soon
I very much enjoyed the video. I realize many people use "power" and "energy" interchangeably, however, they have very precise definitions, and are very different. Kw is a unit of power. Kw hr is a unit of energy. Keep up the good work!
Let me try again. Units of energy: joules, BTU (British Thermal Unit), cal, erg, kw hr. Units of power: watt, kw, hp, BTU/hr, joule/sec. In other words, power is a rate of energy, or energy divided by time. “Work” is equivalent to energy, but often with an efficiency factor. “Work” is not equivalent to “power”.
Maybe not for everyone but I enjoy hearing about the electrical system and the rationale behind your choices. Also I find it informative when you talk about how it is working out and if it is meeting the goals you set when you designed and installed the system. After all the intended design and use do not always work out as intended. I found the diagram to be the most single informative part. Well done sir!
good job on giving the tradeoffs between diesel and electric. I might add diesel gives you a larger energy capacity but no energy increase, while electric has a lower energy capacity but you can refill it on a sunny day. I was chatting with Nigel and mentioned all the boat youtubers who were financing things with affiliate links to his book, he laughed and said it had financed 3 boats for him as well.
If your electric motor allows hydrogeneration (regeneration) then you can recover all of the energy used t motor out of the marina simply by leaving it engaged and raising the sails. I.e., you recharge by wind/sail power. Of course you can also recharge by solar, shore power, generator, etc. Electric drive is the most flexible and greenest.
Hindsight is 20/20, but I'd go with a cat over a mono for an electric boat any day. There are multiple reasons for this, but the main ones are they're more efficient, lighter, redundancy with two motors is easy, and they have tons of room for solar. They also sail and motor faster, and even though when cruising you shouldn't be in a hurry, sailing at 20 knots is still a huge advantage. 55 is huge though. If you're used to RV living you'd probably be OK in the 40-45 range.
I would like to thank u for ur knowledge and ur ability to communicate clearly and simple. I really think ur one of the best you tubers I've heard thank u very much
I aim to buy a cruising boat soon and want to be able to run 100 electric from solar etc. Might get a cat and so might go with one electric and one diesel for emergencies. You channel is very helpful. Thank you. Especially your info on batteries makes sense and is to the point.
I’m glad you did an excellent job of pointing out modest speeds are easily achieved with electric motors. Most are expecting a 1:1 swap out diesel to electric. Batteries just don’t have the energy density of diesel. Drag is a function of the square of velocity. Twice the speed requires four times the energy. Until Doc Brown shows up with a Mr Nuclear, modest speeds and ranges are all batteries, augmented with solar, will allow. Adding a diesel generator could give you best of both worlds, the energy density of diesel would give you range and speed batteries alone would not. By the way, a caution regarding a manufacturer’s advertising. 10kw is 13.4-ish horsepower and horsepower is what gives you speed. Torque on the other hand, means acceleration. Electric motors essentially have a flat, instant torque curve. So, all the torque at once. This is where the manufacture’s ‘20hp equivalent’ comes from. Based on what you’ve said in this video, I’d say the 10kw was the correct choice.
I love what you have done and am in the process of converting a Hunter 336 to electric. I am not using any of the existing marine engine companies. I am putting my own setup together. Sea trial in a couple of weeks. 🤞
I liked that bit at the end where you mention being able to motorsail for a silent boost in speed , this is the second video I've seen from your channel and I'm really impressed!
This was some awesome info. I think electric will be the way of the future. Imagine if your prop produced hydroelectric when sailing plus the solar panels like newer boats.
Nice honest presentation. I do have one quibble. 1 hp is 746 watts so 10 Kw is 13.4 hp. A 10 Kw electric motor is not equivalent to a 20 hp diesel. Power is power regardless of what units you use to express it. Also your Endeavor 32 has an LWL of 25.25' which gives a nominal hull speed of 6.73 knots. That extra 3/4 knot would probably cost you an additional 4 Kw or so. As with all solar electric boats the bugaboo is charging. If you have enough money you can put in enough batteries to get a good day's motoring in at a decent speed. A monohull simply can not carry enough solar to recharge in less than days after even a few hours of moderate speed motoring as you correctly said. If you head up the ICW I think you will find the limitations of your system since making any distance requires full time motoring, often against currents. Personally I think electric power is a good way to go for a boat that is day sailed and has a shore power charging source or is only used say once a week and has a decent sized solar array to recharge between uses.
Every motor company out there will compare a 10kW to a 20 hp or so because electric has more torque at lower RPMs than diesel or gas. They're just trying to compare apples to apples. Basically you get much better low end with electric, and less top end. With monohulls, the low end is what's important so I believe the 20hp comparison is fair. If this were a powerboat it might not be.
@@LearningtheLines yes there is lots of low end torque, but unless you install a huge prop you can't use it so it makes zero difference. Even a diesel engine provides more torque than a sailboat can use because of prop size limitations. It is simply an electric motor marketing ploy. If the motor was really equivalent to 20 hp you would be able to achieve more boat speed than you did with the original 18 hp diesel. Since you can't your 10Kw motor is not even equivalent to an 18 hp diesel.
Nice lay down of your system. I think the challenge comes when you are trying to do multi-day passages often against prevailing winds, waves, and current, as was the case when I brought my boat down recently from Oriental, NC to Fort Pierce, FL. Unless you have infinite time to wait for perfect winds, you will find yourself beating to weather on occasion and that's when a diesel with ample cruising tankage comes into its own. I can't even imagine having electric when our northwesterlies turned into southwesterlies with 30 plus knots on the nose for the next 18 hours during that passage.
I agree with many of the comments below. You gave a quick succinct discussion on your electric boat. I am a "traditional" diesel guy - but you've got me thinking - what if....
Really good info - you did a great job explaining it all too! You might want to consider changing out those solar panels to two 450 watt panels- same size just WAY more efficient. Obviously space is at a premium on a boat- maybe create a solar shade structure that raises and lowers to add more panels - as more = better. I've been in the solar energy business for over 30 years and hate to point out that energy companies typically come and go as often as I change my shirt. A 10 year warranty is no help if the company is no longer around to service it. Not saying that Battle Born will follow the heavily weighted odds, they have a great start and a nice (if very limited) product offering- I hope they are around forever. The "Holy Grail" for the past 50 years has been cost effective energy storage and this looks like a nice step in the right direction- only time will tell. But, they still have a very, very long way to go before it makes good economic sense to the general population. Regardless, great video and good info- wishing you good sailing and good luck!
Can you show us where you installed everything on the boat? batteries, inverters, chargers, the whole lot. Also when under way with sail, can you charge the batteries from the propellor via the motor?
Awesome information. Thanks for watching! Seriously consider Battleborn batteries for your new batteries. If you switch to the 20kW model you'll be drawing 400 AH at full power. You're going to need lithium to feed the beast :)
@@LearningtheLines Lithium or some other new tech, but probably not until the existing batteries need to be replaced. I went to a full day boat electrical systems seminar by Nigel Calder at the Chicago Boat Show a year ago last January. He was fairly anti-lithium battery and anti PURE electric motor. He liked a hybrid system out of the UK, but it is very limited availability. His argument was that electric doesn't have the range he needs. His argument against Lithium is the fire risk. As Far as LiFePO goes, he said that while it is less flammable than Lithium Ion, it can still go into a exothermic failure and burst into flame. He liked the Carbon Foam technology, at least in theory, and had it on his boat, but, at the time, he said that Firefly had serious Quality Control (QC) issues (half the batteries they sent him failed) - so he couldn't recommend it until they fixed those issues. It's been over a year, and Firefly appears to still be around, so maybe they have made progress on the QC issues? In any case, I've read of other battery technologies that may offer higher energy density than anything on the market now. Since I'm not planning any really long trips for the next year or two, I'm going to wait to see what is available in a couple of years.
Motor-sailing, NICE! I did not think about that before. Too many times one ends up motor-sailing and it really sucks to have to turn that engine on for lil boost to help sailing. But with electric motor supplied from nature, that makes it pretty much a non-issue and would not bug me at all having to turn on the engine. Love that idea ... just still the initial cost is big bite. But it is great to see that electric engines are slowly starting to catch on in the boating industry. Recently just seen several YT Spoondrifters videos, who went with the same option, except think they got the 20 model .. it has double engines back to back. But they do have a bigger boat too.
Fantastic video, Jordan! You've answered most of the questions I wanted to be answered, especially the recycled batteries one. I'm really warming up to the electric motor power in a sailboat. I'm a mechanic, and to know the diesel engine is to love the diesel engine, but there are noisy critters! They're dirty, stink and vibrate when you want the peace and quite of the sea at night. Yes, they're reliable, stable, and last but will cost you your last dime when they break unless you can fix them yourself. I'm slowly but surely circling around something in the forty-five-foot range, maybe as big as fifty-five foot, depends on the deal, so I'm wondering about the power requirements and cost. Thanks for the information sailor!
Cajun, thanks for the input! I really think a diesel-electric hybrid is the way to go for bigger boats. So much so, that I know our next boat will be one. 99.9% of the time you wont use the diesel, thus maintenance should be pretty easy because you're never running it, but having it as a backup for emergencies is great safety feature. One of the only reasons we dont have one is that space is limited on Freebie. We could go with a gas generator, but again I dont want to have to store one, let alone have to have explosive gasoline tanks on my boat. Good luck with your boat search!
@@LearningtheLines I was a mechanical engineer for most of my career, so I've been doing a lot of thinking and sketching of ideas about a duel input drive box for a small auxiliary diesel and a main DC electric propulsion motor. Either could drive the propeller shaft, and one could set it up where the motor acts as a generator while underway on the diesel. The diesel could even be at right angles or above. So could the motor for that matter. The whole thing needs to be as frictionless as possible so that when under sail, you can also efficiently regenerate via the motor and propeller. I'm thinking a variable ratio device with a fluid coupling. It needs to be simple and easily maintained and repairable anywhere with common parts found in a hardware store. You don't want to be in Bangkok harbor requiring a specialized part, catch my drift. While I'm at it, as a boat owner knowing the importance of keeping the bottom of your hull clean, I have wanted to ask you this question. I'm working on this idea of a remote/robotic ROV sub-device I can take around to marinas and make a buck or two towards my boat, both buying and refitting, cleaning the bottom of rich people's yachts, both sail, and power. It will have articulated brushes and powerful thrusters to apply pressure and maintain position while scrubbing. The operator can control while monitoring progress via cameras on a display, tablet, or phone. I make an app for that, right? Anyhow, I wanted your opinion on how practical you think the idea, and as a boat owner, would you consider a weekly, monthly service like this if the price was reasonable?
Also, if you could somehow attach one of them heavy duty electric motors to shaft with a 90* bend in it like a troller, could you create a more robust version to mount on the transom and use to propel the boat if people want to have another option?
Great information. My house is actually off grid solar, 12xBattle Born batteries in a 24v configuration with 7kw of solar panels. I know theres not a lot or room on a sailboat but I'm really hoping to get at least 1kw of panels on one we I do my build. I'm still researching at this point.
An mast top mount has three problems 1 hard to service 2 vibration on the mast pole makes one hell of a harmonic. 3 the longer the wire the more loss of energy and increase of heat. Well okay that was 4.
Great video Jarrod. As mentioned below the schematic was very informative and really brought the whole installation into focus. Thank you and give my best to Randi. Looking forward to your next video. Have a great week.
Any way you could gear up the output shaft from the motor to the prop shaft so at low rpm on the motor to save energy you could still spin the prop shaft fairly quicker to get above 3.5nm/hr crusing?
Great video! Thank you! I use lipo batteries for my rc planes and heli's and their C rating is as high as 50. I've never heard of a C rating of 1, but aux power in a sailboat couldn't be more different an application than little radio control planes and heli's!
Great presentation, how do you remember all that stuff and talk at warp speed! We would like to know what your total system would cost at retail....Thx
I really like the fact that you talk about range. Next generation lithium are around the corner with major drops in cost anticipated. 14kwh for 65nm would suggest 650nm for 140kwh. I have wondered how much capacity would be necessary to cross an ocean.
Have you ever visited with Dan at UMA? The conversion he did from diesel to electric and what you have been doing would make for a great show. I have so much respect for what you are doing and what UMA has done. I think your boats are similar ... maybe not. Happy Trails
Thanks for the video, I enjoyed it! I was wondering if you’ve done a calculation on the payback rate for the electrical system compared to a diesel system. Comparing the cost of the entire electrical system versus the cost of the diesel fuel, and maintenance on the engine.
How does the engine perform against high current or tidal change? Especially at night, dark or stormy skies? Or against wind and current? What about emergency towing capabilities? What impact does high seas from the beam or bow have on engine / boat performance? Liked the simple explanations, illustrations and wrap-up.
Question: on a larger boat say 45 - 60 + ft what if you added a diesel generator to charge a large bank of batteries? It seems to me a small diesel gen set would be much easier to maintain than a large, difficult to remove, expensive primary engine while at the same time extending the range of an electric drive (and live aboard power needs while off the grid). Youd still beed a fuel tank of course but not nearly as big and a diesel generator would be easy to tuck away somewhere aboard ideally. Thanks
Great job on that. All boats should eventually convert! My understanding is that electric motors are quite a bit less efficient when running well below their maximum load, so a smaller motor that still can get you to 6 knots is a better choice probably.
Great video and very informative as always.. ..the sketches and diagrams very helpful also, although I personally think that if you could have incorporated bits and pieces of the actual mechanic's installation process, including pictures of the old equipment out and new equipment in place, it would have been even greater! ..if you have the videos, [or create new, while explaining the process, would have been be fantastic] ..maybe in the future... Some years ago I met a couple in a sailboat [in the Med] equipped with similar Electrical power and although technology was no where near of today's levels, it was good enough for those boat owners, and I wouldn't have any problem myself.. Just the thought that a boat will travel on air and sunshine, its thrilling to some of us..
I thought I put this common in I don't know where it went. Is there an availability for a two-speed gearbox so maybe you can install a more efficient prop and get more speed without as much current draw?
Thanks for the awesome information! Is it possible to use more batteries to your boat so you can have more range? I want to have an idea about the limitations.
Thanks for this video!! Looking at repowering a 41' ketch (displaces 23,000 lbs *gasp*) from diesel to electric. The diesel was 50 HP (omg!!!). What size electric motor do I need??? What kind of battery bank? Help!!!
You missed a key feature about Battle Born Batteries. They chemistry is totally different than what is used in portable electronics and most electric cars. (LiFePO4 vs Li-Ion) It is inherently MUCH safer ! They will not explode or catch fire even when over charged or discharged. Personally, I would go for more more solar panels (double what you have) first, more batteries second and a bigger motor third.
I'm going to have a more specific battery episode that'll go over that, as well as to go over all the different battery chemistries out there. We'd love to have more solar, but there's really no room for any more that won't be shaded or in the way.
Thanks very much for the lots of valuable information. I’m getting ready to buy an older sailboat with good bones, mainly because I can’t afford a newer boat, and also because I really like the shape and character of older sailboats. I’m used to sailing my 19’er with no engine. Oars and tides are my auxiliary propulsion. I’d like to upsize refit to electric if I can afford it. I have a question, please, if I may be sold bold. How much did it cost $ to go electric, all in? I just found this channel. I’ll delve deeper into your video library. Thank you for sharing!
Excellent! Thanks a lot for all those informations, I'm more confident now to go 100% electric. As I'm sailing on the Léman lake in Switzerland I think its what we need here to enjoy sailing at its best!
I know its probably been asked before, but would it be a good idea to keep a generator onboard in case of emergency? A 20l jerry can full of diesel or gas and a generator will keep it running for a lonnng time
Very good explanation. It is still possible to get caught up in the 'rat race' even on the open water. Keeping up with the Jones' is the wrong direction. I'm glad you both went this away! Leisure sailing, quiet times, and of course, vlogging at its best.
You were very clear but the difficult thing to explain is the LCA, or to put it simply, what were the costs versus maintenance and lifetime compared to other setups. From my experience anything electric can be extremely reliable so that could be a extra plus regarding calamities.
Good engineering! LiPo lasts way longer and the discharge C rating makes sense! I have a bit of a concern with the idea of lithium and water in an unexpected emergency. I'm an engineer so I have to go there. That said im impressed with your well thought out electrical architecture and inspired as I hope others are too.👍
A lot of people raise this concern. Battleborn's batteries are completely sealed and really strong. If they were to be submersed there's no risk of fire.
There's a lot of variables to going electric. I want to work up a "would electric work for you?" tool and make it available to potentially help people decide for or against it.
Is there the availability for a two-speed gearbox to drive the prop so maybe a more efficient prop with a gearbox you can get more speed at less current draw?
Thanks Man...long time subscriber....first time Comment.....short punchy delivery of excellent information.....check.....curated compendium of electric boat facts.....check.......clear presentation of HUGE volumes of relevant information......check........fair representation of the pros/cons/dialectic......check.........Your video answered so many questions that have been going on in my head.......yacht owner........so I can relate....currently running a 37 year old Bukh 2 cylinder diesel.......20 HP..........so many moving parts!!!........expensive......stinky diesel permeates every surface on the yacht.....its on your skin, your clothes, all the surfaces, you smell like it...........................but one thing going for it is it will burn 1.5 litres an hour per day...36 litres per day....200 litres of diesel equals 5.5 days....it's the argument I've had in my head since day One. The BEST part of Sailing................is when you turn the motor off ........and can finally hear the wind and water.........Thanks again mate for a Grouse video.....cheers from Straya
Nice setup. Hope it works out for you guys! You can always set a mounting plate for the dinghy outboard that will allow you to use that motor in an emergency, so I wouldn't be too scared about the lack of range. Even a 9.9 or 15hp will move that boat, albeit a bit more slowly than you'd like.
The fact that you can turn excess sunlight into a knot of extra speed or AC or whatever for free is a nice bonus. If the batteries are fully charged it’s a use it or lose it mindset :) Is it possible to add more panels on the deck?
just curious, did you consider other Lithium battery chemistries? Something like a NMC or NCA pack setup in a 14s config could be used in a 48v setup and would have greater energy density and would cost less
This is the VERY first “electric boat” video I have watched so sorry if I sound ignorant about it...but the big question that comes to my mind is...if you have to sail on a long passage and have period of 3-4 days of no sun, how can you run the engine? Or even if you range is 45 miles and you have a 3 day passage, and two of the days are cloudy but it’s important for you to motor to get away from bad weather coming or other, how do you manage? Is this considered sort of a middle road of having an engine, and going engineless? -Rebecca SV Brick House
im going to look at a boat set up like this next month has a Elco 10kw electric inboard motor. 1000 watts of solar panels on a custom aluminum tower charging a 100AH 48V LiFePo4 battery bank, The 48v bank directly charges a 400AH 12v LiFePo4 bank powering a 3000W inverter. . will this keep me away from the docks...lol and i plan to add a 2kw 48 volt wind turbine to add to my distance under motor power.
What was the cause of the motor shutdown on your worst night sailing. You were going to talk to electric boat to find out and I haven’t heard the results.
Thanks for the lecture on the iron phosphates.Diesel has its future written into it, D I E. However, if you have a diesel generator then you are a hybrid electric sailboat. Like the Toyota hybrid you have twice the range of a diesel dinosaur.
Excellent info on your system. On freebie, could add another solar panel in the middle to increase solar production? It would probably make your solar array about 2 feet wider, but might give you a little more power so you could bump the speed up a little when motoring.
I was doing a some research on this, and did you consider regeneration. For example if you get the right motor and let the water run over the prop. The flow of the water spinning the prop will turn the motor into a generator, thus replenishing your battery faster, or you could invest/get sponsor in a hydro generator, basically a stand alone water generator. It just something I think about and it would to increase your energy mix. I think it would help your safety being able to create energy in more than one way.
![A STUNNING 50' Dream Yacht That Can Take You ANYWHERE [4k Tour] Learning the Lines](/img/n.gif)
Finally a video that tells you which motor they have. I found so frustrating looking at other videos and no one say which motor they have.
No filler talk just a well spoken video on all the facts. Well done.
Thank you!
Electric drive is the greenest and most flexible. If your AC motor supports hydrogeneration (regeneration) then you can recharge simply by sailing with the motor engaged. So for example, the energy used to motor away from a marina or anchorage can be recovered by raising the sails and letting the wind turn the motor as a generator. In addition batteries can be recharged from solar, generator, shore power, windmill, etc.
Electric drive fits the ethos of sailing extremely well by using what nature provides. It works in harmony with nature instead of fighting against it.
AC motors are more efficient near full power, so you were better off with the smaller motor.
I have a 1979 Newport Mkii 30 ft sailboat Electric , named Electra. We love it, when we sail it regenerates our batteries.. we bought the entire boat for 12,000 from Mike Gunning So Electric Yachts. Newport CA.
We replaced our batteries after 10yrs. Love it.
This,,, has been so far the most detailed and easy to understand video.
Thank you so so much
Please keep on the good work.
I am about to start a project of my own really soon
I very much enjoyed the video. I realize many people use "power" and "energy" interchangeably, however, they have very precise definitions, and are very different. Kw is a unit of power. Kw hr is a unit of energy. Keep up the good work!
Energy does absolutely nothing until it gets converted into power (work).
Let me try again.
Units of energy: joules, BTU (British Thermal Unit), cal, erg, kw hr.
Units of power: watt, kw, hp, BTU/hr, joule/sec.
In other words, power is a rate of energy, or energy divided by time.
“Work” is equivalent to energy, but often with an efficiency factor. “Work” is not equivalent to “power”.
Very true. I'm no engineer, so although I feel I have a decent working knowledge of everything, I'm bound to make mistakes.
Maybe not for everyone but I enjoy hearing about the electrical system and the rationale behind your choices. Also I find it informative when you talk about how it is working out and if it is meeting the goals you set when you designed and installed the system. After all the intended design and use do not always work out as intended. I found the diagram to be the most single informative part. Well done sir!
good job on giving the tradeoffs between diesel and electric. I might add diesel gives you a larger energy capacity but no energy increase, while electric has a lower energy capacity but you can refill it on a sunny day.
I was chatting with Nigel and mentioned all the boat youtubers who were financing things with affiliate links to his book, he laughed and said it had financed 3 boats for him as well.
If your electric motor allows hydrogeneration (regeneration) then you can recover all of the energy used t motor out of the marina simply by leaving it engaged and raising the sails. I.e., you recharge by wind/sail power.
Of course you can also recharge by solar, shore power, generator, etc. Electric drive is the most flexible and greenest.
Thanks for your take on the electric setup, and real world examples of how it works for you!
I've been in RV for 49 years and I have to admit I'm thinking seriously about a SV 55 solar Catamaran. Your info. is valuable
Hindsight is 20/20, but I'd go with a cat over a mono for an electric boat any day. There are multiple reasons for this, but the main ones are they're more efficient, lighter, redundancy with two motors is easy, and they have tons of room for solar. They also sail and motor faster, and even though when cruising you shouldn't be in a hurry, sailing at 20 knots is still a huge advantage. 55 is huge though. If you're used to RV living you'd probably be OK in the 40-45 range.
@@LearningtheLines Thanks for the input. I'm still looking. Dock space is a critical question to.
Down here in Marathon the mooring balls are the same price whether you have a 20 foot monohull or 50 foot cat, but you have to liveaboard :)
I would like to thank u for ur knowledge and ur ability to communicate clearly and simple. I really think ur one of the best you tubers I've heard thank u very much
I aim to buy a cruising boat soon and want to be able to run 100 electric from solar etc. Might get a cat and so might go with one electric and one diesel for emergencies. You channel is very helpful. Thank you. Especially your info on batteries makes sense and is to the point.
I’m glad you did an excellent job of pointing out modest speeds are easily achieved with electric motors. Most are expecting a 1:1 swap out diesel to electric. Batteries just don’t have the energy density of diesel. Drag is a function of the square of velocity. Twice the speed requires four times the energy. Until Doc Brown shows up with a Mr Nuclear, modest speeds and ranges are all batteries, augmented with solar, will allow. Adding a diesel generator could give you best of both worlds, the energy density of diesel would give you range and speed batteries alone would not.
By the way, a caution regarding a manufacturer’s advertising. 10kw is 13.4-ish horsepower and horsepower is what gives you speed. Torque on the other hand, means acceleration. Electric motors essentially have a flat, instant torque curve. So, all the torque at once. This is where the manufacture’s ‘20hp equivalent’ comes from.
Based on what you’ve said in this video, I’d say the 10kw was the correct choice.
When 'modest speed' includes 'hull speed', who cares?
I love what you have done and am in the process of converting a Hunter 336 to electric. I am not using any of the existing marine engine companies. I am putting my own setup together. Sea trial in a couple of weeks. 🤞
I'd like to know how it goes.
Contessa 32. Uk
Hey man, crushed it with the schematic, very nice
Thanks man!
I liked that bit at the end where you mention being able to motorsail for a silent boost in speed , this is the second video I've seen from your channel and I'm really impressed!
Thank you! Yes it was a nice bonus that we didn't even think about.
Regen was mentioned in a vid you did with Uma......is there any regen when you are sailing?
This was some awesome info. I think electric will be the way of the future. Imagine if your prop produced hydroelectric when sailing plus the solar panels like newer boats.
They do this now!
Nice honest presentation. I do have one quibble. 1 hp is 746 watts so 10 Kw is 13.4 hp. A 10 Kw electric motor is not equivalent to a 20 hp diesel. Power is power regardless of what units you use to express it. Also your Endeavor 32 has an LWL of 25.25' which gives a nominal hull speed of 6.73 knots. That extra 3/4 knot would probably cost you an additional 4 Kw or so.
As with all solar electric boats the bugaboo is charging. If you have enough money you can put in enough batteries to get a good day's motoring in at a decent speed. A monohull simply can not carry enough solar to recharge in less than days after even a few hours of moderate speed motoring as you correctly said. If you head up the ICW I think you will find the limitations of your system since making any distance requires full time motoring, often against currents. Personally I think electric power is a good way to go for a boat that is day sailed and has a shore power charging source or is only used say once a week and has a decent sized solar array to recharge between uses.
Every motor company out there will compare a 10kW to a 20 hp or so because electric has more torque at lower RPMs than diesel or gas. They're just trying to compare apples to apples. Basically you get much better low end with electric, and less top end. With monohulls, the low end is what's important so I believe the 20hp comparison is fair. If this were a powerboat it might not be.
@@LearningtheLines yes there is lots of low end torque, but unless you install a huge prop you can't use it so it makes zero difference. Even a diesel engine provides more torque than a sailboat can use because of prop size limitations. It is simply an electric motor marketing ploy. If the motor was really equivalent to 20 hp you would be able to achieve more boat speed than you did with the original 18 hp diesel. Since you can't your 10Kw motor is not even equivalent to an 18 hp diesel.
Love the electric setup! So cool and environmentally friendly!
Lithium mining is not environmentally friendly at all but sure.
This was awesome and so helpful! Thank you for getting into the details about your setup to provide a reasonable example for the rest of us.
Nice lay down of your system. I think the challenge comes when you are trying to do multi-day passages often against prevailing winds, waves, and current, as was the case when I brought my boat down recently from Oriental, NC to Fort Pierce, FL. Unless you have infinite time to wait for perfect winds, you will find yourself beating to weather on occasion and that's when a diesel with ample cruising tankage comes into its own. I can't even imagine having electric when our northwesterlies turned into southwesterlies with 30 plus knots on the nose for the next 18 hours during that passage.
I agree with many of the comments below. You gave a quick succinct discussion on your electric boat. I am a "traditional" diesel guy - but you've got me thinking - what if....
Haha the seed is planted :)
Really good info - you did a great job explaining it all too! You might want to consider changing out those solar panels to two 450 watt panels- same size just WAY more efficient. Obviously space is at a premium on a boat- maybe create a solar shade structure that raises and lowers to add more panels - as more = better. I've been in the solar energy business for over 30 years and hate to point out that energy companies typically come and go as often as I change my shirt. A 10 year warranty is no help if the company is no longer around to service it. Not saying that Battle Born will follow the heavily weighted odds, they have a great start and a nice (if very limited) product offering- I hope they are around forever. The "Holy Grail" for the past 50 years has been cost effective energy storage and this looks like a nice step in the right direction- only time will tell. But, they still have a very, very long way to go before it makes good economic sense to the general population. Regardless, great video and good info- wishing you good sailing and good luck!
Excellent information. I've been wondering about electric motors on boats. Very helpful explanations. Thank you.
Can you show us where you installed everything on the boat? batteries, inverters, chargers, the whole lot. Also when under way with sail, can you charge the batteries from the propellor via the motor?
Yes, maybe in a part 2. I've got some work to do before that though. The boat is a wreck from other non-related projects.
Thanks for sharing your experience! Last fall, I bought a boat (in my profile pic
Awesome information. Thanks for watching! Seriously consider Battleborn batteries for your new batteries. If you switch to the 20kW model you'll be drawing 400 AH at full power. You're going to need lithium to feed the beast :)
@@LearningtheLines Lithium or some other new tech, but probably not until the existing batteries need to be replaced. I went to a full day boat electrical systems seminar by Nigel Calder at the Chicago Boat Show a year ago last January. He was fairly anti-lithium battery and anti PURE electric motor. He liked a hybrid system out of the UK, but it is very limited availability. His argument was that electric doesn't have the range he needs. His argument against Lithium is the fire risk. As Far as LiFePO goes, he said that while it is less flammable than Lithium Ion, it can still go into a exothermic failure and burst into flame. He liked the Carbon Foam technology, at least in theory, and had it on his boat, but, at the time, he said that Firefly had serious Quality Control (QC) issues (half the batteries they sent him failed) - so he couldn't recommend it until they fixed those issues. It's been over a year, and Firefly appears to still be around, so maybe they have made progress on the QC issues? In any case, I've read of other battery technologies that may offer higher energy density than anything on the market now. Since I'm not planning any really long trips for the next year or two, I'm going to wait to see what is available in a couple of years.
Awesome setup, I was considering something similar. I'm planning on having a small gas generator as a backup and considerably more solar.
Motor-sailing, NICE! I did not think about that before. Too many times one ends up motor-sailing and it really sucks to have to turn that engine on for lil boost to help sailing. But with electric motor supplied from nature, that makes it pretty much a non-issue and would not bug me at all having to turn on the engine. Love that idea ... just still the initial cost is big bite.
But it is great to see that electric engines are slowly starting to catch on in the boating industry. Recently just seen several YT Spoondrifters videos, who went with the same option, except think they got the 20 model .. it has double engines back to back. But they do have a bigger boat too.
Great video. Good information delivered very efficiently! Happy sails
This was very informative. Don't knock yourself, you got this plus I just learned a little.
Fantastic video, Jordan! You've answered most of the questions I wanted to be answered, especially the recycled batteries one. I'm really warming up to the electric motor power in a sailboat. I'm a mechanic, and to know the diesel engine is to love the diesel engine, but there are noisy critters! They're dirty, stink and vibrate when you want the peace and quite of the sea at night. Yes, they're reliable, stable, and last but will cost you your last dime when they break unless you can fix them yourself. I'm slowly but surely circling around something in the forty-five-foot range, maybe as big as fifty-five foot, depends on the deal, so I'm wondering about the power requirements and cost. Thanks for the information sailor!
Cajun, thanks for the input! I really think a diesel-electric hybrid is the way to go for bigger boats. So much so, that I know our next boat will be one. 99.9% of the time you wont use the diesel, thus maintenance should be pretty easy because you're never running it, but having it as a backup for emergencies is great safety feature. One of the only reasons we dont have one is that space is limited on Freebie. We could go with a gas generator, but again I dont want to have to store one, let alone have to have explosive gasoline tanks on my boat. Good luck with your boat search!
@@LearningtheLines I was a mechanical engineer for most of my career, so I've been doing a lot of thinking and sketching of ideas about a duel input drive box for a small auxiliary diesel and a main DC electric propulsion motor. Either could drive the propeller shaft, and one could set it up where the motor acts as a generator while underway on the diesel. The diesel could even be at right angles or above. So could the motor for that matter. The whole thing needs to be as frictionless as possible so that when under sail, you can also efficiently regenerate via the motor and propeller. I'm thinking a variable ratio device with a fluid coupling. It needs to be simple and easily maintained and repairable anywhere with common parts found in a hardware store. You don't want to be in Bangkok harbor requiring a specialized part, catch my drift.
While I'm at it, as a boat owner knowing the importance of keeping the bottom of your hull clean, I have wanted to ask you this question. I'm working on this idea of a remote/robotic ROV sub-device I can take around to marinas and make a buck or two towards my boat, both buying and refitting, cleaning the bottom of rich people's yachts, both sail, and power. It will have articulated brushes and powerful thrusters to apply pressure and maintain position while scrubbing. The operator can control while monitoring progress via cameras on a display, tablet, or phone. I make an app for that, right? Anyhow, I wanted your opinion on how practical you think the idea, and as a boat owner, would you consider a weekly, monthly service like this if the price was reasonable?
Nice info about battery setup and solar panel. Thanks
Also, if you could somehow attach one of them heavy duty electric motors to shaft with a 90* bend in it like a troller, could you create a more robust version to mount on the transom and use to propel the boat if people want to have another option?
Great information. My house is actually off grid solar, 12xBattle Born batteries in a 24v configuration with 7kw of solar panels. I know theres not a lot or room on a sailboat but I'm really hoping to get at least 1kw of panels on one we I do my build. I'm still researching at this point.
thanks for heading me in the right direction. maybe a couple outboards for extra? Great info. God bless.
Nice job. What happened to the wind generator. How about mast top?
GOOD POINT!
An mast top mount has three problems
1 hard to service
2 vibration on the mast pole makes one hell of a harmonic.
3 the longer the wire the more loss of energy and increase of heat. Well okay that was 4.
Great video Jarrod. As mentioned below the schematic was very informative and really brought the whole installation into focus. Thank you and give my best to Randi. Looking forward to your next video. Have a great week.
Thank you!
Any way you could gear up the output shaft from the motor to the prop shaft so at low rpm on the motor to save energy you could still spin the prop shaft fairly quicker to get above 3.5nm/hr crusing?
Great video! Thank you! I use lipo batteries for my rc planes and heli's and their C rating is as high as 50. I've never heard of a C rating of 1, but aux power in a sailboat couldn't be more different an application than little radio control planes and heli's!
Great presentation, how do you remember all that stuff and talk at warp speed! We would like to know what your total system would cost at retail....Thx
I really like the fact that you talk about range. Next generation lithium are around the corner with major drops in cost anticipated. 14kwh for 65nm would suggest 650nm for 140kwh. I have wondered how much capacity would be necessary to cross an ocean.
Nice work, do you guys also have a generator onboard?
Great education on the system. So glad it's working out
Thanks!
Have you ever visited with Dan at UMA? The conversion he did from diesel to electric and what you have been doing would make for a great show. I have so much respect for what you are doing and what UMA has done. I think your boats are similar ... maybe not. Happy Trails
Another great one. I really like that you are confident enough to discuss technical issues. Very helpful. Keep up the good work!
Thanks!
Thanks for the video, I enjoyed it! I was wondering if you’ve done a calculation on the payback rate for the electrical system compared to a diesel system. Comparing the cost of the entire electrical system versus the cost of the diesel fuel, and maintenance on the engine.
How does the engine perform against high current or tidal change? Especially at night, dark or stormy skies? Or against wind and current? What about emergency towing capabilities? What impact does high seas from the beam or bow have on engine / boat performance? Liked the simple explanations, illustrations and wrap-up.
Hi... How about adding a hydrogenerator and a wind generator.
Question: on a larger boat say 45 - 60 + ft what if you added a diesel generator to charge a large bank of batteries? It seems to me a small diesel gen set would be much easier to maintain than a large, difficult to remove, expensive primary engine while at the same time extending the range of an electric drive (and live aboard power needs while off the grid). Youd still beed a fuel tank of course but not nearly as big and a diesel generator would be easy to tuck away somewhere aboard ideally. Thanks
Great job on that. All boats should eventually convert!
My understanding is that electric motors are quite a bit less efficient when running well below their maximum load, so a smaller motor that still can get you to 6 knots is a better choice probably.
Great video and very informative as always..
..the sketches and diagrams very helpful also, although I personally think that if you could have incorporated bits and pieces of the actual mechanic's installation process, including pictures of the old equipment out and new equipment in place, it would have been even greater!
..if you have the videos, [or create new, while explaining the process, would have been be fantastic]
..maybe in the future...
Some years ago I met a couple in a sailboat [in the Med] equipped with similar Electrical power and although technology was no where near of today's levels, it was good enough for those boat owners, and I wouldn't have any problem myself..
Just the thought that a boat will travel on air and sunshine, its thrilling to some of us..
I thought I put this common in I don't know where it went. Is there an availability for a two-speed gearbox so maybe you can install a more efficient prop and get more speed without as much current draw?
Thankyou for your efficient and inform delivery.
Thanks for the awesome information!
Is it possible to use more batteries to your boat so you can have more range? I want to have an idea about the limitations.
Thanks for this video!! Looking at repowering a 41' ketch (displaces 23,000 lbs *gasp*) from diesel to electric. The diesel was 50 HP (omg!!!). What size electric motor do I need??? What kind of battery bank? Help!!!
You missed a key feature about Battle Born Batteries. They chemistry is totally different than what is used in portable electronics and most electric cars. (LiFePO4 vs Li-Ion) It is inherently MUCH safer ! They will not explode or catch fire even when over charged or discharged.
Personally, I would go for more more solar panels (double what you have) first, more batteries second and a bigger motor third.
I'm going to have a more specific battery episode that'll go over that, as well as to go over all the different battery chemistries out there. We'd love to have more solar, but there's really no room for any more that won't be shaded or in the way.
Thanks very much for the lots of valuable information. I’m getting ready to buy an older sailboat with good bones, mainly because I can’t afford a newer boat, and also because I really like the shape and character of older sailboats. I’m used to sailing my 19’er with no engine. Oars and tides are my auxiliary propulsion. I’d like to upsize refit to electric if I can afford it. I have a question, please, if I may be sold bold. How much did it cost $ to go electric, all in? I just found this channel. I’ll delve deeper into your video library. Thank you for sharing!
Really well explained, Jordan. Thanks mate.
I had all Lithium batteries for my power tools. I wonder after a while, or lack of use; will they still charge?
Great info. Thanks! I love the idea of silent motor sailing.
I wonder if a generator is an option for when there is no wind and overcast? Depending how much it takes to top off your battery
Excellent! Thanks a lot for all those informations, I'm more confident now to go 100% electric. As I'm sailing on the Léman lake in Switzerland I think its what we need here to enjoy sailing at its best!
I know its probably been asked before, but would it be a good idea to keep a generator onboard in case of emergency? A 20l jerry can full of diesel or gas and a generator will keep it running for a lonnng time
Very good explanation. It is still possible to get caught up in the 'rat race' even on the open water. Keeping up with the Jones' is the wrong direction. I'm glad you both went this away! Leisure sailing, quiet times, and of course, vlogging at its best.
Thank you!
You were very clear but the difficult thing to explain is the LCA, or to put it simply, what were the costs versus maintenance and lifetime compared to other setups. From my experience anything electric can be extremely reliable so that could be a extra plus regarding calamities.
Can you add a gas generator or wind generator to increase your distance and recharge time?
Really informative. Do you have a small backup gas generator on board? Just thinking of a 2-4kW unit that could run on deck if needed.
Good engineering!
LiPo lasts way longer and the discharge C rating makes sense!
I have a bit of a concern with the idea of lithium and water in an unexpected emergency.
I'm an engineer so I have to go there. That said im impressed with your well thought out electrical architecture and inspired as I hope others are too.👍
A lot of people raise this concern. Battleborn's batteries are completely sealed and really strong. If they were to be submersed there's no risk of fire.
Dont lead acid batteries give off chlorine gas with salt water and are also very explosive
WOW. I really liked this info episode. Good job
Thanks for the info, been going back and forth about dumping my diesel and going electric. I like the idea of motoring silently!
There's a lot of variables to going electric. I want to work up a "would electric work for you?" tool and make it available to potentially help people decide for or against it.
I know that every situation is different, but every little bit of info helps! Great job with the channel, keep doing what you do.
Many years at sea big hard boat thanks for a Good in site time to put the feet up an hear the waves go by thank you good soul 😇
Good info and you learned it the old fashioned way. Sinks in and stays. Thx
Thank you!
Saw a video about an electric boat that can use the propeller to generate electricity when under sail, they say effect on speed is hardly noticeable?
Brilliant video. Lots of relevant info without a heap of rambling.
Thank you!
Have to agree and i've been digging like crazy for this topic.
Is there the availability for a two-speed gearbox to drive the prop so maybe a more efficient prop with a gearbox you can get more speed at less current draw?
Can you use the motor as a generator under heavy wind or when anchored up?
Thanks for replying to your fans/patrons.
Would you say the conversion was cheaper than buying a new diesel, including the solar array?
Is there any re-gen from the motor through the shaft and propeller?
Thanks Man...long time subscriber....first time Comment.....short punchy delivery of excellent information.....check.....curated compendium of electric boat facts.....check.......clear presentation of HUGE volumes of relevant information......check........fair representation of the pros/cons/dialectic......check.........Your video answered so many questions that have been going on in my head.......yacht owner........so I can relate....currently running a 37 year old Bukh 2 cylinder diesel.......20 HP..........so many moving parts!!!........expensive......stinky diesel permeates every surface on the yacht.....its on your skin, your clothes, all the surfaces, you smell like it...........................but one thing going for it is it will burn 1.5 litres an hour per day...36 litres per day....200 litres of diesel equals 5.5 days....it's the argument I've had in my head since day One. The BEST part of Sailing................is when you turn the motor off ........and can finally hear the wind and water.........Thanks again mate for a Grouse video.....cheers from Straya
Thanks for watching and for the comment! Cheers!
Nice setup. Hope it works out for you guys! You can always set a mounting plate for the dinghy outboard that will allow you to use that motor in an emergency, so I wouldn't be too scared about the lack of range. Even a 9.9 or 15hp will move that boat, albeit a bit more slowly than you'd like.
Look at those luscious locks! Must be all that easily accessible fresh water :p
The fact that you can turn excess sunlight into a knot of extra speed or AC or whatever for free is a nice bonus. If the batteries are fully charged it’s a use it or lose it mindset :) Is it possible to add more panels on the deck?
just curious, did you consider other Lithium battery chemistries? Something like a NMC or NCA pack setup in a 14s config could be used in a 48v setup and would have greater energy density and would cost less
I'm starting to miss her so much !!!
Lol, she was in the last one.
This is the VERY first “electric boat” video I have watched so sorry if I sound ignorant about it...but the big question that comes to my mind is...if you have to sail on a long passage and have period of 3-4 days of no sun, how can you run the engine? Or even if you range is 45 miles and you have a 3 day passage, and two of the days are cloudy but it’s important for you to motor to get away from bad weather coming or other, how do you manage? Is this considered sort of a middle road of having an engine, and going engineless? -Rebecca SV Brick House
im going to look at a boat set up like this next month has a Elco 10kw electric inboard motor. 1000 watts of solar panels on a custom aluminum tower charging a 100AH 48V LiFePo4 battery bank, The 48v bank directly charges a 400AH 12v LiFePo4 bank powering a 3000W inverter. . will this keep me away from the docks...lol and i plan to add a 2kw 48 volt wind turbine to add to my distance under motor power.
Mr.Blink is full of knowledge
Great video, how much more the cost of lithium vs lead assist, which company did you use for Lithium?
Excellent stuff...Thank you for all the information so succinctly delivered!
How about flexible solar panels hoisted up forestay? Solar sails?
Hi certainly appreciate the content.......regen?
What was the cause of the motor shutdown on your worst night sailing. You were going to talk to electric boat to find out and I haven’t heard the results.
Great video, excellent, very informative, thanks a lot!!
This was really helpful, thank you!
Thanks for the lecture on the iron phosphates.Diesel has its future written into it, D I E.
However, if you have a diesel generator then you are a hybrid electric sailboat. Like the Toyota hybrid you have twice the range of a diesel dinosaur.
Here is a question, In the case of the batteries all quit, can you run the motor on just the solar cells and how fast would that be?
Do y’all use a hydro generator when under sail?
Excellent info on your system. On freebie, could add another solar panel in the middle to increase solar production? It would probably make your solar array about 2 feet wider, but might give you a little more power so you could bump the speed up a little when motoring.
Unfortunately there's no room. It's already much wider up there than the stern of the boat. Lol
I was doing a some research on this, and did you consider regeneration. For example if you get the right motor and let the water run over the prop. The flow of the water spinning the prop will turn the motor into a generator, thus replenishing your battery faster, or you could invest/get sponsor in a hydro generator, basically a stand alone water generator. It just something I think about and it would to increase your energy mix. I think it would help your safety being able to create energy in more than one way.
Water generation creates a lot of drag