Cheers! Borja here :) A lot of people are surprised by the amount of tanks in my list, but they help to keep presence on the board; specially with SangGuard being SO vulnerable to shooting... What I love the most about the list is its versatility. Sure, probably not every unit works amazing in every pairing, but you do have at least a tool or two to face every single pairing, which was a must for such a long tournament! Also, idk where you got those placings but they're all wrong x) Lachlan Rigg finished 25th, Alejandro finished 19th, and I finished 11th, taking Best in Faction award.
Loved your list. Would you change anything? How do you feel the Baal performed? I feel like this list has a reasonable chance against anything. Do you find it struggles into certain matchups? Total luck with that Custodes objective draw
@@jfm.d5180 Right now I wouldn't really know what to change to improve it, honestly. I'm happy with how the list performed both at the WCW and in previous events; the games I lost were entirely my fault, I'd be dodging the blame if I said I lost because I was missing X or Y from the list. The Baals are awesome; they're fast, they threaten a wide array of units, offers great overwatch threat, and adds more "tank" defensive profiles to your list that you otherwise lack, for cheap-ish (bring it dow to 125 again gw!). Sure, it is kinda swingy, since you're basically shooting a 3d6+3 flamer tank, but you usually get to shoot it so many times it ends up evening things out. Probably the hardest matchups are certain types of Death Guard (mostly fight-first plaguemarine bricks in Rhinos, and that one list that was in my group of 18 deathshroud terminators with the terminator sorcerer that gives them -1 damage in melee, like WHAT haha), and thick Necrons. I actually played a game into this type of Necron build round 4, I believe it's uploaded on La Voz de Horus's twitch stream if you want to check it out. Commentary is in spanish, but the full game is in english. It was unfortunate for me, but Folger managed to crawl back on points both times from being almost wiped x) Perhaps I should've kept a tighter eye on the scoreboard haha
@@tusertv I do appreciate you taking the time to share. I run a very similar list but omit the Baals. I was concerned they would underperform. Maybe we will meet in a future tourney (I might need to use as an excuse to come to Spain)!!
Love seeing the diversity in the list and people keying in on different strategies for getting stuff done! Very exciting and thanks for putting these videos together! With all the changes and a want to update more of my primary army with the primaris line, gotta let go of building a BA army. BUT! The moment GW updates Vanguard Vets I am kitbashing a number of BA units to add some flavor to my collection. For those finding the channel, you can do the Patreon support as well and notifications for new videos will easily find you that way!
Just getting into 40k and starting watching and subscribed as soon as I started painting my first army. Forgive me if you have discussed it before, but could you do a video explaining your philosophy and use of scouts? Thanks and Happy Holidays!
Interesting video, thanks for the low down. I think I’ll be replacing an action unit with Mephiston and seeing how it goes. I think you’re right in that his unreliable damage prevents him from being thought of as one of your ‘main threats’ in a list, but as a reasonably tanky action unit that can also do damage, he seems pretty great for his points. I have always thought that it would be interesting to apply a little more ‘black box thinking’ to tournament results. TH-camrs and others always look at lists that place well to try and argue what the strongest elements of a faction might be but that thinking can often be flawed. An easy way to see this is that if everyone just runs the same incorrect style of list then ultimately some people will just get lucky and do well by law of large numbers anyway, not because their strategy is any good. For example, what’s to say that there aren’t another 20 BA players that used the same sort of list as these guys and they all did badly? Would we still argue that these trends are good to follow? Statistically speaking, one in nine players will go 6-2 or even better if their list/faction only has a 48% win rate. So if there are 30 players doing this, we expect three random players to get these scores, yet they still lose more than they win on average. It could be even more interesting then, to look at all the lists across the board, including the bad placements, and analyse what was different between the successful ones and the poorly placing ones. Obviously it’s challenging or impossible to completely separate the player skill factor, but if we’re going to look at list trends it definitely makes more sense to look for ‘differences’ rather than similarities. Something to consider.
Mephiston is also fun to play. Fast, plays with peoples ranges, heroic intervention can screw up an enemy turn, and the random damage can crazy spike. Though I didn’t expect him to be extremely competitive though.
I was so waiting for this video, Thanks a lot John! Quick question, in BestCoastPairings I see the Borja List place at 11th and Alejandro Mancuso at 19th. You sure about those placings??
@@ba_commanderwell, regardless, thanks for taking a look at these lists, this format it so much better so we can take decision with more lists and strategies in mind. Thanks again Commander!
So, I feel like the guy from happy Krumpin wargaming should be talked about here. He's great too. I hope my channel competes with yours and his when I get it going.
Wild to me that no one ran Astorath with the Death Company brick. His unit has the chance to pump out a ton of dev wounds across the game - I guess other BA players value Lemartes -1 damage buff for the durability factor. I personally run Lemartes myself, but still surprised all the same
The no Terminators and NO BGV is crazy to me! BGV are crazy good with a Chaplin/Judicar and super sexy minis. Thanks for the breakdown I like the new format of looking at not just the Tournament Winner (Congrats Jordan) but the highest placing lists in major tournaments
I mean this is hyper competitive, so the players take the most consistent list they can, and even when I love Termies, you make just one mistake and the unit could be stuck doing nothing, BGV I haven’t played yet, but I guess slow movement might have something to do with it.
@ BGV in an Impulsor are very fast. Hit crazy hard with a Chaplin leading them and are pretty durable And the impulsor then gets to do actions after deploying the BGV Hopefully they get more play in other lists
@@alexandermacphearson4379 that’s the thing though, you need the impulsor and the chaplain, and points are limited. I do believe the unit is good, as well as outriders, but here we are talking the top of the top of the lists. Every point needs to serve a purpose on these kind of tournaments
@ fair, but at least the impulsor has a primary and a secondary use. All of your major damage units will have a leader. Its really just a matter of what units work best for the rest of your list
Hey heading off to an RTT next Saturday, fixed on most of my list but cant decide between Astrorath and Lemartes with my 10 man Death Company (in LAG). What's your opinion between the 2?
I wouldn't count Mephiston or the combi-lt as characters per se, they are more scoring/utility pieces, the Sanguinor to a lesser extent as well. You aren't taking these to buff units, you are taking them to do actions, be annoying, cause problems, help take objectives, tie up units etc. Like you say Mephiston easily matches (if not exceeds) the survivability of most 5 man standard marine units, he is T5, not 4, he is 6W base (so already 3 marines worth), has the 4+ FNP, the fights first, the lone operative and a 2+/5++ save, arguably like 3/4 termis are easier to kill than Mephiston. So that alone gives him value, let alone the damage he might spike and he is a threat both shooting and melee, get a sustained on his shooting and he could be shooting 4/5 marines to death even before he a charge. Same with the combi lt to lesser extent, he is just a cheap annoying utility piece that like you won't match with other units because again he is lone op, stealth, infiltrate, reactive move and a 5+ FNP, so again not like you can just send a chaff squad to kill him and he will just be annoying. So take those two off your 500-550pts and you more around your 350pts worth of unit buffing characters.
3 man sang guard are basically blood angels Eightbound, used the exact same way, you've played against world eaters recently against Andrew and seen their effectiveness so maybe try some 3 mans.
Cheers! Borja here :)
A lot of people are surprised by the amount of tanks in my list, but they help to keep presence on the board; specially with SangGuard being SO vulnerable to shooting... What I love the most about the list is its versatility. Sure, probably not every unit works amazing in every pairing, but you do have at least a tool or two to face every single pairing, which was a must for such a long tournament!
Also, idk where you got those placings but they're all wrong x) Lachlan Rigg finished 25th, Alejandro finished 19th, and I finished 11th, taking Best in Faction award.
Congrats my friend. Would you ever consider doing an interview on the channel. I got the rankings from armylists.rmz.gs/ do you typically main as BA?
Loved your list. Would you change anything? How do you feel the Baal performed? I feel like this list has a reasonable chance against anything. Do you find it struggles into certain matchups?
Total luck with that Custodes objective draw
@@jfm.d5180 Right now I wouldn't really know what to change to improve it, honestly. I'm happy with how the list performed both at the WCW and in previous events; the games I lost were entirely my fault, I'd be dodging the blame if I said I lost because I was missing X or Y from the list.
The Baals are awesome; they're fast, they threaten a wide array of units, offers great overwatch threat, and adds more "tank" defensive profiles to your list that you otherwise lack, for cheap-ish (bring it dow to 125 again gw!). Sure, it is kinda swingy, since you're basically shooting a 3d6+3 flamer tank, but you usually get to shoot it so many times it ends up evening things out.
Probably the hardest matchups are certain types of Death Guard (mostly fight-first plaguemarine bricks in Rhinos, and that one list that was in my group of 18 deathshroud terminators with the terminator sorcerer that gives them -1 damage in melee, like WHAT haha), and thick Necrons. I actually played a game into this type of Necron build round 4, I believe it's uploaded on La Voz de Horus's twitch stream if you want to check it out. Commentary is in spanish, but the full game is in english.
It was unfortunate for me, but Folger managed to crawl back on points both times from being almost wiped x) Perhaps I should've kept a tighter eye on the scoreboard haha
@@tusertv blame the bloodlust haha! Excellent performance, mate, Love you 🦾🤖
@@tusertv I do appreciate you taking the time to share. I run a very similar list but omit the Baals. I was concerned they would underperform. Maybe we will meet in a future tourney (I might need to use as an excuse to come to Spain)!!
Borja’s draw with Custodes was against the event winner, he lost a replay “shadow round” to him by 1 or 2 points I believe…
Great video, John! I find this format where you anaylize several winning lists is more informative. Great work!
Glad you liked it!
Very Helpfull analysis, thanks for the bloody work.
Great video BAC! Keep em coming…!
Great Video! Thanks for the insights. Helps me a lot with building an army.
Love seeing the diversity in the list and people keying in on different strategies for getting stuff done! Very exciting and thanks for putting these videos together!
With all the changes and a want to update more of my primary army with the primaris line, gotta let go of building a BA army. BUT! The moment GW updates Vanguard Vets I am kitbashing a number of BA units to add some flavor to my collection.
For those finding the channel, you can do the Patreon support as well and notifications for new videos will easily find you that way!
Thanks for your awesome support my friend, I do appreciate it!
Thanks for the video and all your hard work John as a new BA player I find all your content very helpful.
I appreciate that!
Just getting into 40k and starting watching and subscribed as soon as I started painting my first army. Forgive me if you have discussed it before, but could you do a video explaining your philosophy and use of scouts? Thanks and Happy Holidays!
Try this video my friend! th-cam.com/video/KOqfoF0zkGA/w-d-xo.htmlsi=q9TNdR2Ezj5tDpLR
@ba_commander Wonderful! Precisely what I was after.
Interesting video, thanks for the low down. I think I’ll be replacing an action unit with Mephiston and seeing how it goes. I think you’re right in that his unreliable damage prevents him from being thought of as one of your ‘main threats’ in a list, but as a reasonably tanky action unit that can also do damage, he seems pretty great for his points.
I have always thought that it would be interesting to apply a little more ‘black box thinking’ to tournament results. TH-camrs and others always look at lists that place well to try and argue what the strongest elements of a faction might be but that thinking can often be flawed. An easy way to see this is that if everyone just runs the same incorrect style of list then ultimately some people will just get lucky and do well by law of large numbers anyway, not because their strategy is any good. For example, what’s to say that there aren’t another 20 BA players that used the same sort of list as these guys and they all did badly? Would we still argue that these trends are good to follow? Statistically speaking, one in nine players will go 6-2 or even better if their list/faction only has a 48% win rate. So if there are 30 players doing this, we expect three random players to get these scores, yet they still lose more than they win on average.
It could be even more interesting then, to look at all the lists across the board, including the bad placements, and analyse what was different between the successful ones and the poorly placing ones. Obviously it’s challenging or impossible to completely separate the player skill factor, but if we’re going to look at list trends it definitely makes more sense to look for ‘differences’ rather than similarities.
Something to consider.
Mephiston is also fun to play. Fast, plays with peoples ranges, heroic intervention can screw up an enemy turn, and the random damage can crazy spike.
Though I didn’t expect him to be extremely competitive though.
Really useful, thank you!
Great insight John
I was so waiting for this video, Thanks a lot John! Quick question, in BestCoastPairings I see the Borja List place at 11th and Alejandro Mancuso at 19th. You sure about those placings??
Not sure I got my data from armylists.rmz.gs/
@@ba_commanderwell, regardless, thanks for taking a look at these lists, this format it so much better so we can take decision with more lists and strategies in mind. Thanks again Commander!
Awesome vid thanks Commander
So, I feel like the guy from happy Krumpin wargaming should be talked about here.
He's great too.
I hope my channel competes with yours and his when I get it going.
I also wanted to say I hope you are doing well. You seem like a great guy, and deserve a good life.
Wild to me that no one ran Astorath with the Death Company brick. His unit has the chance to pump out a ton of dev wounds across the game - I guess other BA players value Lemartes -1 damage buff for the durability factor. I personally run Lemartes myself, but still surprised all the same
Competitive players really do rate lemartes higher!
08:18 he also lost against custodes in the shadow round and the custodes players went on to win the wcw
@@redrum923 he lose with the champ for 4 points aprox
By the blood!
Greetings sir!.
The no Terminators and NO BGV is crazy to me! BGV are crazy good with a Chaplin/Judicar and super sexy minis.
Thanks for the breakdown I like the new format of looking at not just the Tournament Winner (Congrats Jordan) but the highest placing lists in major tournaments
I mean this is hyper competitive, so the players take the most consistent list they can, and even when I love Termies, you make just one mistake and the unit could be stuck doing nothing, BGV I haven’t played yet, but I guess slow movement might have something to do with it.
@ BGV in an Impulsor are very fast. Hit crazy hard with a Chaplin leading them and are pretty durable
And the impulsor then gets to do actions after deploying the BGV
Hopefully they get more play in other lists
@@alexandermacphearson4379 that’s the thing though, you need the impulsor and the chaplain, and points are limited. I do believe the unit is good, as well as outriders, but here we are talking the top of the top of the lists. Every point needs to serve a purpose on these kind of tournaments
@ fair, but at least the impulsor has a primary and a secondary use.
All of your major damage units will have a leader. Its really just a matter of what units work best for the rest of your list
Hey heading off to an RTT next Saturday, fixed on most of my list but cant decide between Astrorath and Lemartes with my 10 man Death Company (in LAG). What's your opinion between the 2?
Lemartes seems to be the preferred pick, but Astorath will likely deal more damage.
Pardon my ignorance but what role does the Lieutenant with combi-weapon fulfill in the list for scoring?
He's lone operative so can't be targeted commonly. So he sneaks around a bit :)
with these updates released today, I know John has to be excited about the outrider change!
Vroom vroom.
I wouldn't count Mephiston or the combi-lt as characters per se, they are more scoring/utility pieces, the Sanguinor to a lesser extent as well. You aren't taking these to buff units, you are taking them to do actions, be annoying, cause problems, help take objectives, tie up units etc. Like you say Mephiston easily matches (if not exceeds) the survivability of most 5 man standard marine units, he is T5, not 4, he is 6W base (so already 3 marines worth), has the 4+ FNP, the fights first, the lone operative and a 2+/5++ save, arguably like 3/4 termis are easier to kill than Mephiston. So that alone gives him value, let alone the damage he might spike and he is a threat both shooting and melee, get a sustained on his shooting and he could be shooting 4/5 marines to death even before he a charge. Same with the combi lt to lesser extent, he is just a cheap annoying utility piece that like you won't match with other units because again he is lone op, stealth, infiltrate, reactive move and a 5+ FNP, so again not like you can just send a chaff squad to kill him and he will just be annoying. So take those two off your 500-550pts and you more around your 350pts worth of unit buffing characters.
Anyone got links to videos these lists were featured in?
I don't have any sorry!
3 man sang guard are basically blood angels Eightbound, used the exact same way, you've played against world eaters recently against Andrew and seen their effectiveness so maybe try some 3 mans.
Was gonna do that this week. Drop the DC and add in those 3 man SG.
Death Company just are not the big scary Boogie Man for BA anymore.
Agreed. They are almost not worth taking in 5 imo.
Borja was 11th I thought…
See the pinned comment :)
Sadly there isnt much Blood angel left in the blood angel codex, maybe it will get better in 11th.
7500pt painted firstborne.
4500pt painted Primaris.
Vindicators X 2 and Lone-ops are super common in SM as a whole, guess i should print another lol
My though exactly 😂