Thank you for watching! Please subscribe and check out the links below! Support me for as little as $1 per month and get access to perks: th-cam.com/channels/nZhDnDgJ3trXix2_448i_Q.htmljoin Connect with me: shycorn.com
I had that design bible on my phone I got from American McGee's TH-cam channel which I still check in on once in a while, it was heartbreaking to learn that this game would never be. It still cuts me when I think.about it and only a few weeks ago or maybe a month back I commented on his latest video sending my sympathys because it's a crime that all the hard work they put into it will never come to life, such talent and beauty
Remember when YT copyrighted him for playing his own game. 😂 YT “We need proof you own the game or proof you’re allowed to stream it.” American McGee: “My name is on the cover!!!!🤦🏻♂️” I was so dead 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
@@ShyCorn it would explain why they got so frustrated they just no longer had the energy to fight and just drop everything other than their penny dreadful plushies. I wanted to cry when they came out with their last statement on their patreon.
It’s cool though I’m gonna go play the fifth remake of a decent single player game from back in the day. Since we can’t take risks we’ll just keep playing remakes of games we’ve played 100 times before with no new stories told and no creativity left to try.
If they do see some value in the IP maybe we’ll see them re-approach McGee down the line, I don’t see him coming back to the industry for anything else
but how did they even get the IP? why did the creator sold it in the first place? wouldn't it be easier to make a crowdfounding for it instead of selling the rights?
@@FlareBlossom They were the publisher. Thats just how it works. They provide the financial support in exchange for the rights. It also has to do with how licensing works. It also means they get the profits.. Its why so many Devs switch to indie and public backing like Kickstarter or patreon etc.. They get to keep their creative rights to the works they make..
Unfortunately yes. @@mattd5240 they claimed that the ip is "still an important part of the brand" But refused to greenlit any iteration of many years for the third game.
Unfortunately yes, unless you make a contract with a company or copyright holder (and pay them), most companies still have the rights (and can honestly keep those rights as long as they want if they trademark something instead of keeping it as copyrighted/reserved). It really sucks 😔@@mattd5240
At the very least they should sell the rights to a publisher willing to work with McGee, that way the project has a little more financial stability throughout development
@@ShyCorn Sadly it is way too late. American Mcgee has put down his coding fingers (so to speak) partially due to the decline. Even if they did change their mind, give him the rights or give them to someone else willing to work for him, he most likely wouldn't do it.
IIRC he's already said that he just has no drive to make another one even if he was given the opportunity. I think he's got some plush bunny merch now as his business.
Agree, it's such a beautiful end for her. While i am really sad we'll never get to see it finalized, I wasn't aware of the Design Bible being a thing, and I am very grateful to this video for letting me know about it! Hearing how things would have played out is a form of closure too, at least for me.
Alice Asylum's cancellation was an incredibly short-sighted choice, in my opinion. Today, probably more than ever, projects lead by auteurs, projecting their distinctive personality, can quite easily garner and guarantee a loyal following. But of course, if the only metric of a financial investment is "the project needs to guarantee *this* much profit", or even "this project must break all previous record"... Well, say goodbye to artistic and authorial vision. A real shame. That's why, as it has been said multiple times, it is vital for the "AA space" to expand as much as possible, since most AAA projects are now so unwieldy they are collapsing onto their own weight.
Asylum could have fit really nicely into the AA space similar to how the Darksiders games do nowadays. I have to wonder what worth EA sees in sitting on the IP rather than selling it back to American McGee or another publisher that he could then approach and pitch. Glad to see someone shares the same sentiment regarding AAA projects becoming too big to be viable any longer, I was talking about that just the other day on Threads.
Sadly, the AAA space is run by people catering to share holders. Not customers. Like dragons, they sit upon their hoards of Intellectual "Property". Never to be used, only held. And woe unto those who would attempt to share their bounty, though it only be another coin on the pile where they rest their reptilian heads. Coincidentally, F EA. (And several others who shall remain nameless)
@@ShyCorn the reason they won't sell is stupid. They wanna have it in the back corner in case they need a cashcow to milk, they killed a few franchises and brought back with similar ideas, what ended up destroying the IP. Disney does the same shit, we only still have Kingdom Hearts bc SE never accepted to sell the Kingdom Hearts characters to Disney, hence why we are getting less and less of Disney as time goes on.
EA's CEO is an actual moron, who is so delusional, he boasts about how they aim to use AI to replace developers. Which, just to be crystal clear - is *impossibility*. You cannot use LLM that scrapes shitty code from stackoverflow to make a functioning game, yet alone half-decent one.
@@EvaHoshizora yess this was my guess too, that they sit on it because "maybe someday we can make a cheap mobile game themed around Alice and cash out on the loyal fans until they notice what we are doing"
หลายเดือนก่อน +780
Seing asylum cancelled was such a slap in the face, if EA didn't feel like it was valuable enough to fund, why did they allow American to start designing and rising funds 💔 it breaks my heart
@@ShyCorn That's the problem with these big publishers that are solely in it for the money. If they don't see any worth of investing in it, they would still hold on to it, just to make sure someone else can't create something with it. There are enough examples where publishers just buy a developer out for their IP, just to get rid of competition. That also might be why gaming has become so stale. They want to push us toward certain types of games (multiplayer, microtransactions, live-service) where they can squeeze every dime out of you. And with the lack of options, you as a gamer either have to go with it, or stop gaming. Maybe the gaming sector should crash again, so that we are just left over with developers/publishers who want to make games for enjoyment. And where they will not be pushed to set a certain narrative/agenda. Because that is something that is clearly obvious aswell these last few years.
@@JustAnotherGamer1005 We're lucky enough to have the undie scene though, there are alternatives for a good time although advertisement and their effect on peer pressure would have you think otherwise. It's a great world to be in with more games than we could ever play, there is a lot of choice nowadays
I was absolutely crushed when Alice: Asylum was canceled. I had taken a look at the script myself to see what could have been, and it was such a heartwarming ending. Yeah Alice killing Bumby in Madness Returns was satisfying and very much deserved, but Alice deserved to have a happy ending and move on from her trauma and everything she had gone through. What EA did was entirely unfair to not only us, but to American McGee as well because he seemed to enjoy making these games because this was such a wonderful concept of Alice in Wonderland going dark and psychological.
Wow i never realized how complete the design Bible was. Even detailing the ending. BUT i am glad that now i at least have the knowledge of how it should have ended and that the ending is a good satisfying conclusion. The only downside being i didn't get to play it
I highly recommend reading through the whole thing if you haven’t yet, it’s so interesting. Even if we never get to play it, I love the way the series would have ended for Alice.
That's why around 4:07 of American McGee's Final Word video, he basically said that the design bible is very complete that game makers out there could potentially feed it into an AI system and make an Alice game out of it.
I remember when i heard about this getting cancelled. It really stung to see how EA has just shat on this series and American Mcgee almost personally. I can only hope that more indie projects like this can sell to the moon and show these soulless companies how much passion can be put in works of art like this
With the way the industry is headed, indie games and the double-A studios are going to keep things afloat. Hopefully we see a third Alice game pop up somewhere down the line.
@@ShyCorn i hope so, i finished this game a good 3x such a unique and remarkable game, i mean i loved alice and horror, and when this series came up outta nowhere i got fished instantly, what a game and what a shame for EA, hate this company!
EA really fumbled with not wanting to fund and make this game ESPECIALLY because the whole story is so amazing, tells such a deep dark disturbing tale with symbolism that one can understand but also really feel in a way. smh
I really would have loved to play that Game, although if the Publisher is EA, then obviously not, like i didnt even notice Alice Madness Returns was published by EA back in the past, such a mistake wont happen again, also have read how much was cut from that Game. EA is lost in void for me(also Ubi, Activision and guess many other tripple A-bysmal Companies aswell.)
I wish we got Alice asylum. I played the madness returns a year ago or so and it was just such a unique game. The locations, the graphics, the enemies and wepons. Ea just really suck.
I vividly recall that Alice: Madness Returns was the final EA-published game I unintentionally added to my collection, a mere $5 purchase. Yet, it marked the end of my support for Electronic Arts! Despite the low cost, I stand firm in my decision to withdraw my patronage. The game itself was a delightful adventure, so captivating that I played it through twice. I truly appreciate games that explore profound psychological themes, as they can be immensely beneficial for personal growth. However, it saddens me that major publishers often favor titles that indoctrinate players with political driven agendas that foster weak, distorted minds and bloated egos, easily manipulated and fragile.(aka the wokies) In contrast, games like the Persona series are a breath of fresh air. They delve into the depths of Carl Jung's Shadow Work, teaching us to embrace our shadow selves rather than becoming distorted and easily offended wokies. These games empower players to confront their inner demons and foster resilience and self-awareness.
@@TakahiroShinsakuI hate, how I found this video, this comment, after beating persona 5 royal. 😂 I just can’t even understand how that came* to be but damn if it isn’t just crazy
@@sebastianmichaelis9073Indeed, the Persona series excels at weaving psychological themes into its narrative, but each game explores different aspects of the human psyche. While Persona 5 delves into the collective unconscious and the power of rebellion, Persona 4 focuses on the importance of accepting one's shadow self, a central concept in Jungian psychology. In Persona 4, the theme of 'not rejecting your shadow' is a powerful message, encouraging players to embrace their true selves, including their flaws and hidden desires. This is a profound lesson in self-acceptance and personal growth. If you hunger for more Persona Games, i can recommend the 4th one as well.
I used to work at EA and i can say the reason they didn't make another its the executives deciding to go full in with maximizing monetization because yes the Alice games sold well enough to make a profit but not enough in their eyes when they can make much more with more micro transaction filled games and i can also state why they will not sell the rights it is because not only EA but many companies infact have a "if i can not profit from it nobody else will ever profit from it" mindset it is sad that companys act like this but i hope one day we can see this great game series return
Woah, would you be able to share any more about your time with the company? I’d be super interested to hear more. Reach out via DMs on Instagram if you’d prefer as well! And thanks for watching!
I yearn for the day when gamers worldwide awaken to the reality of companies like Electronic Arts and choose to withdraw their support! These tripple _Abysmal_ companies, with their relentless pursuit of profit through microtransactions and manipulative practices, deserve to fade into oblivion. Without the dedicated gamers who fuel their greedy success, they are nothing. We, the gaming community, hold the power to shape the industry. By refusing to purchase their products and rejecting their _exploitative_ tactics, we can send a powerful message. Let us _unite in our love for gaming_ and demand respect, creativity, and integrity from the developers and publishers. Together, we can rise above the mediocrity and embrace a brighter, more ethical gaming future.
The sad part is that they’re willing to fund games like Dragon Age Veilguard which is a singleplayer game and no microtransactions but for some reason they’re not willing to do the same for Alice. I really want to get the trilogy.
@@Guava11534 This might shock you but Veilguard was supposed to be a live service game. The reason why it took so damn long to make is because of fan backlash and the obviously crumbling live service model they decided to scrap the idea and rework the assets back into a single player game. The game got jerked around back and forth and that is one of the reasons why the quality is... a bit sub par. It is yet another victim of EA's live service folly.
At least indie creators have a bit more freedom to take these concepts seriously and not be bogged down by monetization strategies and publisher guidelines
@@cvldblvvded4071 There are some similar dark psychological horror games, but Alice is definitely its own thing. American McGee has also made a game called Grimm, but other similar games I can think of are Fran Bow, Lost in Random, Lies of P, Hellblade, Bramble: The Mountain King, Psychonauts (an inspiration for American McGee's Alice), Parasite Eve, Death's Door, Gravity Rush, and maybe Devil May Cry and Hollow Knight. Also, it's currently still just a browser point & click game, but Alice is Dead is also a really interesting horror take on the Alice in Wonderland story and they're coming out with an HD remake on Steam next year! I haven't replayed it recently, but it was iconic for me and fed a small craving I had not long after playing the Alice games. Some with similar aesthetics and/or tone: Bioshock Infinite, Code Vein, Call of Cthulu,, the Cat Lady, and maybe some JRPGS like Mad Father, The Witch's House, Ib, & Misao.
In the book that came with the original there is her doctor's journal where he narrates her ever increasing dosage of "laudanum" - Old English for opium, because that's what passed for medicine in those days. So yeah, she's not just traumatized - she's being deliberately drugged out of her mind the entire time.
I can use my right hand to count the games that made a personal change in me as a creative. American McGees's Alice is one of them. Alice Asylum got offically cancelled in April of 2023. I wait patiently for the largest demographic in gaming to be young adults who are either too busy of bored of spending time and money is games that only become more aggresive and fade away completely once they can no longer turn a profit. Maybe that day we will force companies to respect players. AAA companies will only play fair once they see bankruptcy in the eye. And happy october 6, the 24th anniversary of American McGee's Alice.
I think you are right, it’s already happening. A lot of the older gamers, once that far surpass me, my age, and younger are getting sick of the same pumped out copy and paste crap. Only a handful watch the streamers still playing cod or fortnight, nobody knows who they are now. Whereas you’ve got streamers like caseoh who do play small indie games and appreciate how different and unique they are. These AAA companies are panicking I think. They aren’t making money like they used to when they allowed creative freedom. And it’s especially so with Ubisoft lawsuit recently, I think these big dog CEO’s are realising they’ve fucked up, but they won’t change until they’re bankrupt and shut their doors.
Its so weird. Funding the creation of Asylum would have probability been the safest investment ever. You got two classic, beloved games backing it up. It would have been an instant hit. But you can always rely on EA to miss an obvious opportunity.
Even if it didn’t give them any egregious monetization options or live-service elements, the return on investment in good-will from fans alone would have been worth bankrolling the project.
Both games lost a big amount of money on release only becoming profitable years after they released. Games these days live and die by the first week of sales (terrible thing if you ask me, among us is the prime example) so companies do not want to fund a project that is almost guaranteed to not make money. Look at how long they had to beg the publisher to allow Psychonauts 2 which is a way simpler pitch than "extremely dark psychological horror platformer". On top of that, the games are not that good. The first one is carried by the setting as the gameplay itself is extremely frustrating and the combat absurd. That does give it some memorable moments like the Jabberwock fight, but all in all it's terrible game for people who aren't insanely into weird video games. The second game is way worse. The upgraded combat is a mess, there are no boss fights to remember save for the end which is very easy and boring. The game becomes extremely monotone by the end with the last exploration chapter being an extreme slog. This is also discounting the numerous bugs present in the game some one being game crashes. This game would not have been a safe investment at all and I don't really see EA not publishing it as a problem. I do see keeping the rights as extremely devious though.
As someone who's struggled with mental illness my entire life and my sense of reality due to trauma, when I first played Alice: Madness Returns, it was so viscerally invoking for me. This game brings so much awareness to mental illness, but it's so unfortunate that they won't continue it when this is a topic that needs to be discussed.
Greetings, kindred spirit! 🌙 I was deeply moved by your appreciation for Alice: Madness Returns and its portrayal of mental illness. As someone who has navigated the challenges of schizophrenia, I felt a connection to your words. Your desire for more games that explore these complex topics is one I understand intimately. Here are a few additional titles that might resonate with your quest for awareness and self-discovery: *Little Misfortune* A whimsical journey that encourages a positive outlook on life. It's a delightful adventure that can provide a refreshing perspective. 🌟 *Persona Series* Starting from the second installment(because didnt like the first one...), this series delves into the depths of the human psyche, especially with the fourth game's exploration of C.G. Jung's shadow work. 🃏 *Spiritfarer* A heartfelt game about coping with loss and letting go. It may hit close to home, but it's a powerful tool for healing and acceptance. In this one really learns to say goodbye... 🛶 *Disgaea Series* Beneath the lighthearted surface lies a profound message of love, friendship, and unity. These games remind us of the importance of human connections. 💕 I understand the impact these games can have on personal growth and self-understanding. As someone who has found solace in these virtual worlds, I encourage you to explore these titles and discover the unique insights they offer. 🌌 May your gaming adventures continue to bring awareness and healing, and remember, we are all on a journey towards enlightenment, one game at a time!😉🧘
Both me and my mom were so sad when we heard asylum wasn't gonna be made. She was a fan since Alice: Madness Returns released. I remember sitting on the couch, watching her play it, and when I was old enough to be able to play for myself (I was almost 6 when it released), I did so and fell in love with it and the first game. Maybe it's wishful thinking, but I'm still holding out hope for the project coming to fruition in some form...Here's to hoping, I guess :)
If it’s any consolation, there’s a fan on Twitter who has been in the process of making Alice Asylum themselves from McGee’s book as a fan game but sticking close to the outline we already have so we’ll have at least a version of Asylum! They’ve modeled a lot already and are working on Alice’s character model right now.
I mean, I may be wrong, but Alice In Wonderland is public domain, so I feel like tweaking a couple things here and there should allow anyone to make a “spiritual successor” with a story that closely relates to the unreleased one
I grew up playing the American McGee's Alice series. Madness Returns was actually part of what inspired me to become a psychologist. While the game was a bit grandiose, I remembered thinking that I wanted to help people in the same place as Alice. That I wanted to push aside the "Bumbies" of the world and be someone who genuinely helps. Hearing about Asylum's cancelation was actually really devastating to me. It didn't throw me into a fit of tears, but I did spend a short while depressed at seeing the thing that inspired me be so callously rejected. I wish they'd just sold the rights. If they don't want to make the game, if they're so sure it'll be a waste of money, then why not sell the rights and make money off of an IP you plan to do nothing with? But EA decided to show that they're still the scummiest gaming company on the planet. I recently saw Madness Returns on Steam for a pittance and purchased it. With a bit of help, I was able to even unlock the full playable version of the first Alice game, and unlocked all the DLCs. And now? I plan to avoid as many EA games as possible. And taking a look at all the cut content from Madness Returns and how they damaged the quality of the game by rushing McGee always infuriated me. Canceled boss fights, axed weapons; we were handed a stripped down version of a game that could have been groundbreaking. Instead, thanks to EA, the only ground that was broke was to dig the series' grave.
There was so much cut content for Madness Returns, it’s bonkers. I did my most recent playthrough of Alice 1 via the Steam version of Madness Returns as well, it runs fantastic on modern hardware without any tinkering which was a shock.
If you actually follow their development process lives and discussions, you will know that this game series is American's beloved child sort of project. The devs did literally everything they could to make it happen including trying to fund them themselves from the merch, but it is just not attainable. EA games made it even more difficult for them by refusing to let go of the outdated copyrights for YEARS and making it so they were not able to give the game the green light when there were people and companies interested to fund it privately years ago. The design bible and everything they need concept wise to start creating the game as well as hugh end pitches have been COMPLETED for many years now as well. They really wanted to make this game.
Well he did try to fundraise Ozombie a while back, but it didn‘t pan out. Also, he has made himself clear that he will not return to the video game industry
I would too, trust me! I would have loved to see Asylum in video game form too. At the very least I can be happy to have gotten the opportunity to be one of the people that were trying to show EA he had support of fans for the production. I still got things in return which is now very dear to me, the bible that I made into a hardcover, challenge coins and posters during all the fundraising
I went to a printer in my area that accepts low volume printing (much more expensive) Sent the pdf and chose the “specs“ of the book I guess. Then I waited haha
I had heard about this game series but I had never played it and had no idea the story was this in depth and character driven. Sudd let I am being confronted with a small grief about the third game never coming to fruition/the series reaching its conclusion. What devastates me more is reading about American McGee giving up and dropping the games industry completely. EA treated this series so badly the creator had to leave to salvage his emotions that’s so sad. Thank you for making this video
You missed something thematic about the "Shrink" mechanic. Alice needing to shrink in order to find the way forward and paths to hidden memories could also be a reference to psychologists etc. being called "shrinks"
I might have the hottest take in all of this comment section. I loved Madness Returns. I grew up on Madness Returns, it fueled my love for the horror genre to this day. When I found out about Alice 3 on Patreon, I was so incredibly excited. I backed this project for at least a year I believe. Some of my current long-standing friends are from this project, meeting in the discord and passionately and actively talking about Alice. I however stopped backing the Patreon at one point. And so did the friends I made that also backed the project. Maybe after I left American refined the Asylum story to how you say it was refined to have a "conclusive end to the series", but I can tell you that originally that was not the case. There were many live sessions had where American did talk about wanting the game to go over the 5 stages of grief. He did talk about enemy designs and game concepts (I actually inspired how the health system worked). He also did talk about having a hard time finding investors. His solution to his investor problem was creating his own studio. Which made sense at the time. If you can't find someone to help you, take matters into your own hands. It was smart of him to want to create a different, simple game first to get his new studio off the ground. But it became very clear to me and the others that I had interacted with from the Patreon that American's focus was drifting more and more away from Alice 3. Maybe he already knew at that time that there was no going back. But it was admittedly really disheartening seeing that he went from actually talking about and working on Alice 3 to focusing on "How can I make a Disneyland-like theme park out of Alice for my new studio". The theme park idea in general would of been sick as hell. But personally, I believe because American had his son around one of the times of the live sessions that his focus became shifted. Alice 3 was set to fail, not just because of EA. I'm not saying American didn't have his heart in this because I'm sure at one point, he did. But that got lost in translation at some point.
I'm not saying this as a jaded fan. I'm not saying this to rag on American. At the end of the day, I genuinely do love the series. I have multiple several-page documents of ideas I had for the story of Alice 3 when the Patreon was still a fledging and ideas I had for gamplay. I even have a Vorpal Bunny plushie that I won from a raffle from one of the live sessions. But because I love the series so much, it was really heartbreaking to tell early on this was going to crash and burn
And today still hurt about the cancellation, like it's just one last game for the Alice franchise but then EA blow it over with the most in denial and backwards statement without realizing there are ACTUAL fans for the series. I honestly wish they could give the IP off to Bethesda or mcgee (if hes willing to come back to the game industry) and move on rather holding on to it and doing nothing with it.
I remember hearing from a former game reviewer/journalist not to get involved in the video game industry unless you're okay with having your dreams crushed repeatedly. Or maybe I dreamed it up idk I remember hearing it somewhere. It's just sad that it seems more and more true as time passes. I wonder how many great games could have been made but never see the light of day because it's seen as too risky to fund.
As fascinating as it is seeing what’s on the cutting room floor, it’s also quite sad when you see some of the amazing things players never got to experience
My Friend once asked me why I would never want to be a game developer since I am so vocal about games and I love games the most. This comment perfectly sums it up. It's a money industry now where creativity and dreams go to die. Where you will spend your career making slop games and then getting fired when it sells under £10 whilst your executive gets himself another bonus.
as a former child of foster care, i loved this game, along with your video. i wish i could give this infinite thumbs up. it was one of the best ps3 games i ever played. id rank this game right up with HZD and death stranding. i loved the look and play aspect of madness, and alice's different costumes were awesome. i felt her pain throughout the game, her journey became my mental psycho release. it bummed me out so much when i read a while back we probly wouldnt get a 3rd. i kept wiping my eyes in the end when you talked about what the 3rd would have been. how fitting that becos of greed, we wont get an end to her story of fighting pain brought on by greed and corruption, from a company known for that. huge hug to you and everyone who played this and shared that journey, we lived that moment and it made the journey worth it.
I think about Alice Asylum so often and every time i am so heartbroken- Madness Returns is so special to me as a huge fan of the original Alice story. I hope one day American Mcgee is able to get the rights to his wonderful creation
Honest this is one of the greatest travesties in video gaming history. It was so well thought out and showed a comeback from the very brink to leading others down the road to healing. I wish he still had the drive to release this as another IP that he owns. Name and a couple of design changes to remove "wonderland" "White rabbit" and "Alice". But the amount of work to do it I understand how he could lose drive. I miss this game even though it wasnt released. :(
Alice is the female protagonist no one talks about and that's a shame. Her story and character development is one of utter horror and hopelessness turned triumph and healing depicted in beautiful dark gothic themes. In an age of games that are more about profit, Alice is a game of profound presence and art, a dwindling black flame of what games used to be and so rarely are in the modern world. The only game i have played in recent memory that dares to dance in the same dark fields of internal struggle like Alice did was, to my surprise, Returnal. It was received VERY well by the gaming community and that at least give me hope for Alice in some way or another. Its unlikely but its another black flame of hope and ill take it.
I was waiting for the third game for a long time because when I was younger I had a fixation with everything Alice in Wonderland, and when I found playthroughs of Alice Madness Return I fell in love with the aesthetic, the gore, the dark tone and themes in the story and the design of both the supporting cast and Alice. Thinking that this game might never be made breaks my heart given the stunning concept art we got... (BTW not me thinking with my copium brain that someone could develop a TTRPG module from the world and concept art knowing full well that the story doesn't work without Alice 😅)
as everyone else, i was crushed when i found out Asylum would never be. I recently got all the four weapons from Madness Returns tattooed as an homage for McGee's games and my love for them. It feels good to see that, even so many years after the release of the last game, people are still releasing videos like this singing it's praises, god knows it's deserved. I hope McGee knows how many people out here will always love his Alice, regardless, and maybe even especially, of Asylum's cancellation.
It’s a shame that this game was scrapped. The market is so saturated with FPS, Souls-like, live service, etc. this game would have been amazing. You can tell how dedicated the team behind it was.
Brb weeping about it. This video game franchise made me feel seen growing up in a broken, fucked up home. It gave me ways to convey the trauma I experienced before I knew how to ask for help, or even that I could. That last game reflects a lot of my experiences as a mentally ill adult processing, and healing from, trauma. That ending directly reflects the motto I try to live by now ("Be the adult I needed), and it breaks my heart I won't be able to see this game get made. Thank you for this video man
Games like Alice are important because they can help us process things, reframe our thoughts, see things from a new perspective, and ultimately heal. I’m glad this series, and the video, resonated with you similarly to how it resonates with me. Thank you for watching, it means a lot.
The thing is, I don’t know if a lot of OG fans would even be too interested in Alice asylum without the original creator because I know I would feel bitterness
Madness Returns was so much fun. Love the unlockable outfits. Would be amazing if the third game was made through crowd funding and all three were on the Switch.
People are fed up with AAA, and there are games that defy the "industry standard", like Hellblade from Ninja Theory. Sometimes AAA devs are fed up as well, which can lead to quite promising stuff like the Forever Winter.
Honetly if it wasn't for my sister I probably wouldn't know about this game, but I'm so glad I knew about it since I was 10 or something. I followed along Mcgees updates about Alice Asylum whenever he would post them and it broke my heart to see him announce that he was giving up. I hope maybe someday someone else takes on his project or maybe he rethinks his decisions and tries again, but whatever he does I'm also happy with Alice madness returns because of how great it is.
I disagree with your closing statement that a game like Alice: Asylum will likely never be made. While the industry does favour bland moneymaking titles over meaningful artistic expression, we can regularly see creatives fighting back against this trend. Psychonauts 2 is a great example. It hides its serious themes behind a playful cartoonish artstyle, but it also deals with psychology and trauma, and it was released 10 years after Madness Returns.
I think the double-A realm and indies offer a lot more experiences similar to the Alice series. My closing statement was more in regard to the triple-A space. I would love to cover Psychonauts someday here as well!
I remember playing madness returns years ago when I was university, I still remember how I followed the development of Asylum and the excitement of playing the sequel but getting disheartened learning of it's cancellation. It still has a place in my heart for it's great storytelling.
@@ShyCornwtf? Bro I’ve never played any of the games but just from listening to you and seeing the small tid bits I wanted to cry it a river 😢 and then you drop even more stuff like this extra after scene in someone’s comment. Holy hells man! 😂. This game was truly a work of art that now I feel bad for not giving the time of day, before I had seen it’s cover ahd thought it was interesting but back then I suppose interest just didn’t collide and I was pretty stupid so I definitely didn’t have a good eye for quality just yet
*I saw your video come across my FYP and i couldn't resist watching it, I genuinely love deep dives into the loss of Alice Asylum and McGee's true brilliance and passion.* *Even though I was not a big fan of the game long as the others have been, I genuinely believe this game couldve done well in the industry, with the rise of topics about mental health that were once (and unfortunately still is) seen as taboo and unreal, Alice Asylum couldve reached and touched the hearts and minds of many and encouraged the delve into discussions of the horrors, for a lack of a better word, the torture, of mental health. I would dare say it could even have been used as an example of what many people live with a lot, guilt.* *all I wanted to say was thanks for making this video, I'll definitely be using it as entertainment as i eat 💗🙏*
I remember being so excited to hear about another Alice game, I got excited seeing the outfits and ideas. When I heard it was canceled, I thought it was some bad joke. :( But if anyone wants to feel the void of not having an Alice game, there's one being made currently called Habromania.
I didn't expect such deep knowledge of the series from this video, very enlightening even for non-gamers. You should probably have a title more focused on psychological part of McGee's Alice to attract a bigger viewership as it goes deeper than just a game :D
I love how Alice Madness Returns started, cause it was played by famous youtubers; Pewdiepie for example, played it 11 years ago, then newer youtubers played it like 2-3 years ago. I hope the creator will be inspired to create another part of this amazing game because it's very beautiful, dark but beautiful.
This wouldn't be the first time American McGee didn't get to make a game. before Alice Asylum, he wanted to make a twisted grotesque game called OZombie. It was to be taking place in the world of Wizard of Oz and he had the concept art ready. He tried a KickStarter.... and it failed. He was asking for $900K in order to get the game going. Afterwards when asked if he would continue making the game if a company ever showed interest and would fund him, he said he wouldn't. McGee has made other projects that were successful, such as 'Grimm' and 'Into the Woods'. For now, after Asylum got canned.... he has retired from making games and instead is making YT videos about spending time with his family in China.
this makes me sad to be honest. i'm happy to see a lot of people still remember and appreciate the alice games, to this day i use the family portrait from alice madness returns as my background, and i would inmediately buy a sequel, that game really made me feel a lot and inspired me artistically too when honestly not much around me let me (very repressive catholic school and family)
I’ve been watching a lot of “cancelled games” content and it’s so disheartening to realize where the gaming industry is headed towards. There’s so many games that simply lose to profit even before being fleshed out, their rights already bought or owned and tossed into oblivion. Not only do they kill the idea but they kill it for everyone. I wish they would hold auctions for passionate devs or smaller studios to be able to buy the rights to games and continue their legacy but alas, how would companies make sure that they didn’t toss a winning idea then?
@@mattd5240 I think that'd be the best for all parties except EA. It's such a big company though that I 100% think it's going to be bought out instead on its way out.
Did you get the digital version? Cos the discs version of madness returns came with a free download code for the first Alice game. A month ago I went back to my PS3 and started playing these 2 again.
These games have been treated so badly by EA. It's so weird to me. If they have so little faith in the series, just sell him the rights? It makes me wonder if they're holding out on some plans of their own for the games or their own third installment, but that doesn't feel like the case with how they treat them. It's just an odd way to treat a creator, especially with the rising cult appreciation for the first two games.
After the success they’ve seen with other single-player titles like the recent Jedi series, you’d think EA would have a renewed appreciation for these types of experiences and their commercial viability, but apparently not. Hopefully McGee one day returns to the industry and is allowed to make this final installment in the franchise.
Theres a depressing sort of irony of Alice Asylum being cancelled In an industry filled with people saying they want to push boundaries, ideas that ACTUALLY push said boundaries are killed off You dont want to push boundaries. You want to FEEL like you are without actually doing so. And that makes the industry so much more stale In an industry filled with so many problems from loot systems to pay to play pushings, we need ideas like Alice to actually make a real change. But sadly those ideas never will be given said chance. People are afraid to take risk due to not wanting to rock waters as well as i guarantee they can make billions off it in the first day. What a time to play games...
Thank you for this breakdown and deep dive that may not have gotten to experience Alice's wonderfully dark story. As a patron of American McGee's final game, the ultimate nail on the coffin came from EA not ONLY denying him backing to make the game but they wouldn't even release the rights of Alice back to him. He could have easily got another studio outside of EA to fulfill his dream but legally, EA wouldnt let him. He was so destroyed after years of hard work that he rarely even talks about the project anymore. I feel so bad for the guy and honestly, hope at some point in his lifetime, he's able to somehow get the game created
This is one of the most interesting games I came across ages ago, never knew it has such an inspiring and tragic story. Like I need another reason to hate EA...
I loved both of these games and found them... Beautiful in a sense. The first had difficult controls to manage on mouse+kboard, but I thoroughly enjoyed Madness Returns using a controller. I had no idea Asylum was even an idea in the works.
I ended up muscling through Alice 1 on mouse and keyboard because I couldn't be bothered to figure out the controller mapping shenanigans with my third-party controller. Thanks for watching!
McGee's Alice did not influence Silent Hill 2 or Metal Gear Solid 2's psychological and emotional themes. Those games would have already been in production at the time or were simply following themes from their predecessors. Both Silent Hill 2 and Metal Gear Solid 2 have well-documented influences, and during the late 1990s and early 2000s, there was a growing trend in media toward exploring surrealism, psychological trauma, and altered perceptions of reality. McGee's Alice's definitely is one of the first video games to seriously and respectfully portray mental illness, but Silent Hill 2 and MGS2 are quite unrelated. Where did you get this from?
Sorry if I was unclear, I mean that Alice helped pave the way for those titles to succeed in the market, not that it necessarily directly influenced their production
These games came into my life during the absolute lowest I'd ever been. I remember playing a little bit of the original as a child, and that little bit stayed with me as a core memory, until 2014 when i was scrolling through the PSN library, and uttered "oh shit, i remember this game, it got a sequel?" At this point, I'd been through some hardships I would never have fathomed as a kid, even going to the point of repeatedly attempting and failing suicide. So, I forgot about my own reality when I dove into Wonderland again. But there were several moments of playing through Madness Returns, where the symbolism, and art direction of the game matched my own warped and twisted perception of reality. I saw only gray and red in my world, and Alice did, too. I saw myself as a twisted mockery in the mirror, as Alice does when she activates Hysteria. Reality and my twisted view of it meshed together sporadically, just as Wonderland bled into Alice's reality. In essence, I saw so much of my own trauma, and mental illness represented in this simple little platformer. I identified with Alice so much, that I chose my new name, and now it feels so natural to respond to Alice, or Alli. I was heartbroken when I found out that Asylum was refused by EA for reasons that I must admit, didn't surprise me, but disgusted me all the same. These games showed mental illness and trauma with such respect, and with such startling accuracy that it became a comfort to me, and I'm sure many others. The fact that the first game, and Madness Returns are both complete, undissected packages of gameplay and content was just a happy bonus for me. These games are so brutally honest that, of course I wanted more, and was beyond giddy that American Mcgee was bringing out concept art and ideas for a third game. It's a video game, plain and simple. But for those of us who saw it for its brutal honesty, its unwillingness to compromise, and its passion for an accurate, and unabridged expression of trauma, and mental illness, it's special. I played this almost immediately after exiting a mental ward of a hospital, and many moments are harshly reflective of my own experiences. Alice's memories of her stay in the asylum during Madness Returns being perhaps the most disturbingly accurate for me, right down to seeing blood in the walls. Art like this needs to be shared. I'm sorry for rambling, but hopefully this gives some insight for how life changing video games can be, when they're allowed to be honest. Also, this is a wonderful video, and I hope we get a second chance for these games. I know Mcgee was perhaps the most heartbroken of all of us, and he left the game industry after this, but I still hope. It's special to many people.
Fun fact for something positive here: The official demo of American McGeee's Alice served as a prologue to the main game! So the full experience actually includes the demo within the narrative. Where the full game picks up when Alice falls down the rabbit hole, the demo tells the story of how she got there in the first place. Granted, it includes some minor game mechanics as a preview but moving part of the story to the demo is an ingenious move in my eyes, That's a kind of effort I've never since seen put forth and will always stand out to me as a testament to the creative medium. Plus, AMcGA has one of the best original music I've ever experienced with Trent Reznor playing actual children's instruments. Such a treat.
@@ShyCorn Absolutely, yeah. At least one other example would be "Half-Life: Uplink" which definitely also added to the lore with a full stand-alone mission. I've never heard anybody talk about this topic - maybe it could be something for you to delve into? I suspect there are other games that did that as well, but also that information about this would be hard to come by. A short documentation about "The time when video game demos added to the story" would be heaven. And also probably very interesting for younger generations to hear!
This game is still loved - I wish the third game would have come out or maybe now in the future with same art style and modern things would have been a wonder to behold.
this video was randomly recommended to me on my home page. i loved madness returns when i played it, and i didnt even know that there was going to be a third one, let alone that it was canceled. but i just wanted to say that i really appreciate the passion and honesty in your narration. definitely earned an instant subscribe. i really hope you cover games like outer wilds, or the nier series!
They broke mcgee's heart so bad with turning down this project, that he decided to leave game development all together. He even said he won't come back if they suddenly change their minds and he also doesn't want to discuss anything involving game development anymore. EA really killed his love for the business.
The first game is still my favorite game of all time. It combines a ton of elements and themes that I enjoy, and, way back when, it has taught me that videogames are an incredibly powerful media to explore all kinds of themes. AMR was a big disappointment in comparison: 1) it was different, closer to collectathon platformers like Spyro which I haven't played at the time, and 2) it felt lesser in every regard: less polish, less weapons, less impactful music, less realized ideas (read the artbook, it's true)... But, over the years, I've come to accept that game for what it is, as well. What I truly wish is that both McGee and his fans find a way to move on. He did make other games, you know; he did have other interesting ideas. He is not a one-trick pony, even though that pony was freaking brilliant and hard to top. I, for one, would like to see more of Akaneiro universe; hell, Bad Day LA was a hilarious idea, if questionably executed. But I'd love to see anything coming from his mind.
If the creator could ever get the IP back, I think the best Studios for it to go to are either Young Horse or Psychonauts. I think both studios would be respectful of those wishes if their other games are to be judged.
This is a fantastic video and analysis. This was and is one of the most visually beautiful and narratively fantastic series ever made. There were absolutely some gameplay issues. 1's combat either was super cheesable or very painful with very little in between with some weapons that were more or less useless due to how hard they were to use vs the cost of using them (looking at you jack in the box). And 2 left me feeling cheated out of a few boss fights (though the final fight was amazing and well worth the wait) and the quadruple jump kinda left levels feeling a bit too spread out. But all that was forgivable because the sheer love that the creators had for it shined through and made it *fun*. Asylum getting cancelled is heartbreaking. On a lighter note, my brain also did a record scratch at 2:45 because you showed a grashopper tea pickup that I don't think I've ever seen. I remember loving the absurdity of the powerup's hilarious speed boost being a lot of fun, but I was only ever able to find two the entire game. I mean... Maybe I found that one? Its been over a decade and a half since I played it last. But I don't remember lava. Edit: Guides at the time also only noted the one grasshopper tea under the metal mesh bridge in one of the areas before the hatter boss fight or they simply stated the powerup existed but was extremely rare. So I could not look it up.
@@ShyCorn hah! If only I could get my hands on a working copy in this day in age or find the time to make it work. I would love to replay them both. IIRC the steam version of madness returns never offered the deluxe version that included the first game.
@@ShyCorn you have my attention. I'll go look into it. Maybe I'll find 3 grasshopper teas this playthrough. There's gotta be mroe than 2 in the whole game... (though I also only ever found 2 mirrors so what do I know?)
1:53 i can see this videos going to be a real downer all doom and gloom for the gaming industry in general... and thats well earned, but there is hope in indie development, outside the greedy insidous sickly claws of the AAAA industry meat grinder that buys the talents of those with real vission and skill then discards them when theyre done, there is hope for a third alice game, if its creator can only see where to look, patreon, go fund me, some of the greatest victories in gaming have been indie devs that bet on theyre own greatness being valued by the gaming comunity... alices creator said he's done with gaming, fine if he refuses to see a potential path in indie then as always, another indie dev will just have to do what he cant or wont, as usual.
This makes me want to boot up Alice: Madness Returns and play through it while i'm sick. Seriously disappointed that we'll never get Asylum. EA a joke company these days anyway, if he could just GET the rights, I'm sure he could fund it as an indie project.
It is an absolute crime that the 3rd game was never greenlit. PEople would still be talking about it to this day and it would have set the bar for entire genres of games for generations to come.
I love the 'Alice' games! I'm actually planning to create a few Alice games myself sometime in the future. Nothing this amazing looking of course, but something that Alice fans might enjoy.
@@ShyCorn Well I'm actually starting really small. I'm a writer so it's going to be an 'interactive book' kind of deal. Like a choose your own adventure book. I know that probably doesn't sound too exciting, but I'm starting small.
@@ShyCorn Same here. I'm actually collecting a bunch of Alice games right now. I'm planning on making a youtube channel dedicated to them. Not all are horror themed, but it's my goal.
It is a shame that the 3rd game was canceled because not only were these games beautiful in their own twisted ways while tackling subjects matter that you don't see very often or if you do it's usually not in a good light with those who struggle with mental illness being treated like the villian or antagonist. The hesitation from EA just shows that they were afraid that the dev team would be able to succeed without them & considering that the creator is now making adorble pushie rabbits (among other animals) it would have probably ended up coming true
@ShyCorn I have several and will say they are worth it because of how well they are made and soft they are regardless of which one you end up getting & they do have occasional sells to keep an eye out for
I will never forgive EA for doing this to American McGee. I was a sort of fan of him and was just-- CHOMPING at the bit to see the trilogy come to an end. But after this, I will never EVER give them a single cent from me. Despite the jankiness of the first game and the slight brevity of Madness Returns, I still loved the darker takes on it. Fingers crossed he finds success in other fields.
Oh my god. As someone who has been through tragedy, was assaulted at a young (but still adult) age, and still hasn’t processed the grief of losing family, I feel like I can understand Alice through these games. And that ending… That beautiful, sweet, lovely ending… would have been PERFECT. “He says we should follow you” is such a tender and sweet moment to tie the games together. Because someone is trusting Alice after everything she’s been through.
Such a shame, Alice’s confrontation with the queen in Madness and that monologue she has is one of the greatest moments and something I will always remember.
I have played both games. I miss games that are truly thought provoking and doesn't just distinguishes itself for not having monetization or because of its constant updates to keep from going stale. Its a game that will leave a permanent memory for every element the game covered and seamlessly weaved together. The art, the world design, the characters, the combat, the story, and the end goal all displayed without compromise or rushed additions. We almost never get all that in one game anymore
![[ ออกกอง ] วัยหนุ่ม 2544 โลกหลังลูกกรง..ทัวร์กองถ่ายหนังใน "คุกของจริง" | JUSTดูIT.](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/vB--aOkZCpw/mqdefault.jpg)
Thank you for watching! Please subscribe and check out the links below!
Support me for as little as $1 per month and get access to perks:
th-cam.com/channels/nZhDnDgJ3trXix2_448i_Q.htmljoin
Connect with me:
shycorn.com
@@ShyCorn we got you.
🎩📗🌹
@@Okami404 I think I'm too old to understand that.
I had that design bible on my phone I got from American McGee's TH-cam channel which I still check in on once in a while, it was heartbreaking to learn that this game would never be. It still cuts me when I think.about it and only a few weeks ago or maybe a month back I commented on his latest video sending my sympathys because it's a crime that all the hard work they put into it will never come to life, such talent and beauty
Remember when YT copyrighted him for playing his own game. 😂
YT “We need proof you own the game or proof you’re allowed to stream it.”
American McGee: “My name is on the cover!!!!🤦🏻♂️”
I was so dead 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
"We can't afford another Alice 3, guys: we've spent the budget on another Live Service, unoriginal, buggy, modern FPS game"
It would probably be sobering to hear just how close that comment was to the conversation in reality during the pitch meeting
@@ShyCorn it would explain why they got so frustrated they just no longer had the energy to fight and just drop everything other than their penny dreadful plushies. I wanted to cry when they came out with their last statement on their patreon.
This truth hurts ...
It’s cool though I’m gonna go play the fifth remake of a decent single player game from back in the day.
Since we can’t take risks we’ll just keep playing remakes of games we’ve played 100 times before with no new stories told and no creativity left to try.
@@TOUGHEYES The problem isn't limited to major corporations, plenty of Indie devs have this same crap.
whats worst is Ea refused to sell the rights back.
really is that meme.
"its my IP to sit on and do nothing with." - EA to American Mcgee
If they do see some value in the IP maybe we’ll see them re-approach McGee down the line, I don’t see him coming back to the industry for anything else
but how did they even get the IP? why did the creator sold it in the first place? wouldn't it be easier to make a crowdfounding for it instead of selling the rights?
I’m not 100% sure how it all works but maybe they could Shenmue 3 their way into Alice: Asylum if they didn’t want to bankroll the project themselves
Sounds like fairly typical fare for EA.
@@FlareBlossom They were the publisher. Thats just how it works. They provide the financial support in exchange for the rights. It also has to do with how licensing works. It also means they get the profits.. Its why so many Devs switch to indie and public backing like Kickstarter or patreon etc.. They get to keep their creative rights to the works they make..
It was heartbreaking seeing that last patreon update in which American Mcgee admitted defeat
I was shattered reading it, such a shame EA would go and waste his true brilliance
Does EA still hold the rights to it?
Unfortunately yes. @@mattd5240 they claimed that the ip is "still an important part of the brand" But refused to greenlit any iteration of many years for the third game.
Unfortunately yes, unless you make a contract with a company or copyright holder (and pay them), most companies still have the rights (and can honestly keep those rights as long as they want if they trademark something instead of keeping it as copyrighted/reserved). It really sucks 😔@@mattd5240
@@mattd5240 Yeah, sadly they do, and they won't let go of it either for some unknown reasons..
Wish they would just give him the rights, their hesitance tells me they fear he would have success without them I dunno
At the very least they should sell the rights to a publisher willing to work with McGee, that way the project has a little more financial stability throughout development
@@ShyCorn yknow what EA is just company that is metaphorically a Cemetery of IPs and Studios, simple as that.
@@ShyCorn Sadly it is way too late.
American Mcgee has put down his coding fingers (so to speak) partially due to the decline.
Even if they did change their mind, give him the rights or give them to someone else willing to work for him, he most likely wouldn't do it.
Considering the indie scene loves these kind of games, they're right to be scared.
IIRC he's already said that he just has no drive to make another one even if he was given the opportunity.
I think he's got some plush bunny merch now as his business.
The ending of Alice saving the other children is so touching. Such a shame we never saw it play out.
I love how it plays out in the design doc, even if we never see another Alice game she still got that ending to me
Agree, it's such a beautiful end for her. While i am really sad we'll never get to see it finalized, I wasn't aware of the Design Bible being a thing, and I am very grateful to this video for letting me know about it! Hearing how things would have played out is a form of closure too, at least for me.
I second that. I was so shocked when I heard about who the big bad was going to be.
Alice Asylum's cancellation was an incredibly short-sighted choice, in my opinion. Today, probably more than ever, projects lead by auteurs, projecting their distinctive personality, can quite easily garner and guarantee a loyal following. But of course, if the only metric of a financial investment is "the project needs to guarantee *this* much profit", or even "this project must break all previous record"... Well, say goodbye to artistic and authorial vision. A real shame. That's why, as it has been said multiple times, it is vital for the "AA space" to expand as much as possible, since most AAA projects are now so unwieldy they are collapsing onto their own weight.
Asylum could have fit really nicely into the AA space similar to how the Darksiders games do nowadays. I have to wonder what worth EA sees in sitting on the IP rather than selling it back to American McGee or another publisher that he could then approach and pitch. Glad to see someone shares the same sentiment regarding AAA projects becoming too big to be viable any longer, I was talking about that just the other day on Threads.
Sadly, the AAA space is run by people catering to share holders. Not customers. Like dragons, they sit upon their hoards of Intellectual "Property". Never to be used, only held. And woe unto those who would attempt to share their bounty, though it only be another coin on the pile where they rest their reptilian heads.
Coincidentally, F EA. (And several others who shall remain nameless)
@@ShyCorn the reason they won't sell is stupid.
They wanna have it in the back corner in case they need a cashcow to milk, they killed a few franchises and brought back with similar ideas, what ended up destroying the IP.
Disney does the same shit, we only still have Kingdom Hearts bc SE never accepted to sell the Kingdom Hearts characters to Disney, hence why we are getting less and less of Disney as time goes on.
EA's CEO is an actual moron, who is so delusional, he boasts about how they aim to use AI to replace developers. Which, just to be crystal clear - is *impossibility*. You cannot use LLM that scrapes shitty code from stackoverflow to make a functioning game, yet alone half-decent one.
@@EvaHoshizora yess this was my guess too, that they sit on it because "maybe someday we can make a cheap mobile game themed around Alice and cash out on the loyal fans until they notice what we are doing"
Seing asylum cancelled was such a slap in the face, if EA didn't feel like it was valuable enough to fund, why did they allow American to start designing and rising funds 💔 it breaks my heart
At the very least they should have sold the rights back to him, how they actually handled it was so disappointing
@@ShyCorn That's the problem with these big publishers that are solely in it for the money. If they don't see any worth of investing in it, they would still hold on to it, just to make sure someone else can't create something with it. There are enough examples where publishers just buy a developer out for their IP, just to get rid of competition.
That also might be why gaming has become so stale. They want to push us toward certain types of games (multiplayer, microtransactions, live-service) where they can squeeze every dime out of you. And with the lack of options, you as a gamer either have to go with it, or stop gaming.
Maybe the gaming sector should crash again, so that we are just left over with developers/publishers who want to make games for enjoyment. And where they will not be pushed to set a certain narrative/agenda. Because that is something that is clearly obvious aswell these last few years.
@@JustAnotherGamer1005 We're lucky enough to have the undie scene though, there are alternatives for a good time although advertisement and their effect on peer pressure would have you think otherwise. It's a great world to be in with more games than we could ever play, there is a lot of choice nowadays
I was absolutely crushed when Alice: Asylum was canceled. I had taken a look at the script myself to see what could have been, and it was such a heartwarming ending. Yeah Alice killing Bumby in Madness Returns was satisfying and very much deserved, but Alice deserved to have a happy ending and move on from her trauma and everything she had gone through.
What EA did was entirely unfair to not only us, but to American McGee as well because he seemed to enjoy making these games because this was such a wonderful concept of Alice in Wonderland going dark and psychological.
It’s comforting to know she had a happy ending even if it wasn’t fully realized in game form
Wow i never realized how complete the design Bible was. Even detailing the ending. BUT i am glad that now i at least have the knowledge of how it should have ended and that the ending is a good satisfying conclusion. The only downside being i didn't get to play it
I highly recommend reading through the whole thing if you haven’t yet, it’s so interesting. Even if we never get to play it, I love the way the series would have ended for Alice.
That's why around 4:07 of American McGee's Final Word video, he basically said that the design bible is very complete that game makers out there could potentially feed it into an AI system and make an Alice game out of it.
I remember when i heard about this getting cancelled. It really stung to see how EA has just shat on this series and American Mcgee almost personally. I can only hope that more indie projects like this can sell to the moon and show these soulless companies how much passion can be put in works of art like this
With the way the industry is headed, indie games and the double-A studios are going to keep things afloat. Hopefully we see a third Alice game pop up somewhere down the line.
@@ShyCorn i hope so, i finished this game a good 3x such a unique and remarkable game, i mean i loved alice and horror, and when this series came up outta nowhere i got fished instantly, what a game and what a shame for EA, hate this company!
EA really fumbled with not wanting to fund and make this game ESPECIALLY because the whole story is so amazing, tells such a deep dark disturbing tale with symbolism that one can understand but also really feel in a way. smh
I can all but guarantee it won’t be the last time EA fumbles something of this magnitude or more
I'm surprised EA is still around with how many times they fumble
I really would have loved to play that Game, although if the Publisher is EA, then obviously not, like i didnt even notice Alice Madness Returns was published by EA back in the past, such a mistake wont happen again, also have read how much was cut from that Game. EA is lost in void for me(also Ubi, Activision and guess many other tripple A-bysmal Companies aswell.)
@@darkcrydotmrihavetoomanyst1440 Casuals buying microtransaction content is what keeps them laughing all the way to the bank.
I wish we got Alice asylum. I played the madness returns a year ago or so and it was just such a unique game. The locations, the graphics, the enemies and wepons. Ea just really suck.
I really hope we see something come of the project someday, but at the very least I'm glad we can read through the design docs
@@ShyCorn I mean yeah, but it still pretty much sucks because like bruh fuck EA
I vividly recall that Alice: Madness Returns was the final EA-published game I unintentionally added to my collection, a mere $5 purchase. Yet, it marked the end of my support for Electronic Arts! Despite the low cost, I stand firm in my decision to withdraw my patronage.
The game itself was a delightful adventure, so captivating that I played it through twice. I truly appreciate games that explore profound psychological themes, as they can be immensely beneficial for personal growth. However, it saddens me that major publishers often favor titles that indoctrinate players with political driven agendas that foster weak, distorted minds and bloated egos, easily manipulated and fragile.(aka the wokies)
In contrast, games like the Persona series are a breath of fresh air. They delve into the depths of Carl Jung's Shadow Work, teaching us to embrace our shadow selves rather than becoming distorted and easily offended wokies. These games empower players to confront their inner demons and foster resilience and self-awareness.
@@TakahiroShinsakuI hate, how I found this video, this comment, after beating persona 5 royal. 😂 I just can’t even understand how that came* to be but damn if it isn’t just crazy
@@sebastianmichaelis9073Indeed, the Persona series excels at weaving psychological themes into its narrative, but each game explores different aspects of the human psyche. While Persona 5 delves into the collective unconscious and the power of rebellion, Persona 4 focuses on the importance of accepting one's shadow self, a central concept in Jungian psychology.
In Persona 4, the theme of 'not rejecting your shadow' is a powerful message, encouraging players to embrace their true selves, including their flaws and hidden desires. This is a profound lesson in self-acceptance and personal growth.
If you hunger for more Persona Games, i can recommend the 4th one as well.
I remember watching McGee's video about the cancellation. EA lost my business from that day on. They ruined The Sims and this was the last straw.
I don’t blame you, they never should have passed on Alice: Asylum
I used to work at EA and i can say the reason they didn't make another its the executives deciding to go full in with maximizing monetization because yes the Alice games sold well enough to make a profit but not enough in their eyes when they can make much more with more micro transaction filled games and i can also state why they will not sell the rights it is because not only EA but many companies infact have a "if i can not profit from it nobody else will ever profit from it" mindset it is sad that companys act like this but i hope one day we can see this great game series return
Woah, would you be able to share any more about your time with the company? I’d be super interested to hear more. Reach out via DMs on Instagram if you’d prefer as well! And thanks for watching!
I will never forgive EA for killing Bullfrog
I yearn for the day when gamers worldwide awaken to the reality of companies like Electronic Arts and choose to withdraw their support! These tripple _Abysmal_ companies, with their relentless pursuit of profit through microtransactions and manipulative practices, deserve to fade into oblivion. Without the dedicated gamers who fuel their greedy success, they are nothing.
We, the gaming community, hold the power to shape the industry. By refusing to purchase their products and rejecting their _exploitative_ tactics, we can send a powerful message. Let us _unite in our love for gaming_ and demand respect, creativity, and integrity from the developers and publishers. Together, we can rise above the mediocrity and embrace a brighter, more ethical gaming future.
The sad part is that they’re willing to fund games like Dragon Age Veilguard which is a singleplayer game and no microtransactions but for some reason they’re not willing to do the same for Alice. I really want to get the trilogy.
@@Guava11534 This might shock you but Veilguard was supposed to be a live service game. The reason why it took so damn long to make is because of fan backlash and the obviously crumbling live service model they decided to scrap the idea and rework the assets back into a single player game. The game got jerked around back and forth and that is one of the reasons why the quality is... a bit sub par. It is yet another victim of EA's live service folly.
We never get games like these outside of the indie space nowadays......
At least indie creators have a bit more freedom to take these concepts seriously and not be bogged down by monetization strategies and publisher guidelines
@@ShyCorn Word
@@ShyCorn It's just a bummer that their lack of funding limits their abilities because creatives should be allowed to create their art.
Do you know any similar psychological games like those of Mcgee's Alice? I only know Sally Face and Contrast.
@@cvldblvvded4071 There are some similar dark psychological horror games, but Alice is definitely its own thing. American McGee has also made a game called Grimm, but other similar games I can think of are Fran Bow, Lost in Random, Lies of P, Hellblade, Bramble: The Mountain King, Psychonauts (an inspiration for American McGee's Alice), Parasite Eve, Death's Door, Gravity Rush, and maybe Devil May Cry and Hollow Knight.
Also, it's currently still just a browser point & click game, but Alice is Dead is also a really interesting horror take on the Alice in Wonderland story and they're coming out with an HD remake on Steam next year! I haven't replayed it recently, but it was iconic for me and fed a small craving I had not long after playing the Alice games.
Some with similar aesthetics and/or tone: Bioshock Infinite, Code Vein, Call of Cthulu,, the Cat Lady, and maybe some JRPGS like Mad Father, The Witch's House, Ib, & Misao.
In the book that came with the original there is her doctor's journal where he narrates her ever increasing dosage of "laudanum" - Old English for opium, because that's what passed for medicine in those days. So yeah, she's not just traumatized - she's being deliberately drugged out of her mind the entire time.
I can use my right hand to count the games that made a personal change in me as a creative. American McGees's Alice is one of them. Alice Asylum got offically cancelled in April of 2023. I wait patiently for the largest demographic in gaming to be young adults who are either too busy of bored of spending time and money is games that only become more aggresive and fade away completely once they can no longer turn a profit. Maybe that day we will force companies to respect players. AAA companies will only play fair once they see bankruptcy in the eye. And happy october 6, the 24th anniversary of American McGee's Alice.
I’m glad someone else remembered the anniversary too. This series means a lot to me, I really hope we see Asylum made someday.
I’m replaying it guys. Don’t worry we shall not forget this masterpiece
Much appreciated :)
I think you are right, it’s already happening. A lot of the older gamers, once that far surpass me, my age, and younger are getting sick of the same pumped out copy and paste crap. Only a handful watch the streamers still playing cod or fortnight, nobody knows who they are now. Whereas you’ve got streamers like caseoh who do play small indie games and appreciate how different and unique they are.
These AAA companies are panicking I think. They aren’t making money like they used to when they allowed creative freedom. And it’s especially so with Ubisoft lawsuit recently, I think these big dog CEO’s are realising they’ve fucked up, but they won’t change until they’re bankrupt and shut their doors.
Its so weird. Funding the creation of Asylum would have probability been the safest investment ever. You got two classic, beloved games backing it up. It would have been an instant hit. But you can always rely on EA to miss an obvious opportunity.
Even if it didn’t give them any egregious monetization options or live-service elements, the return on investment in good-will from fans alone would have been worth bankrolling the project.
Both games lost a big amount of money on release only becoming profitable years after they released. Games these days live and die by the first week of sales (terrible thing if you ask me, among us is the prime example) so companies do not want to fund a project that is almost guaranteed to not make money. Look at how long they had to beg the publisher to allow Psychonauts 2 which is a way simpler pitch than "extremely dark psychological horror platformer".
On top of that, the games are not that good. The first one is carried by the setting as the gameplay itself is extremely frustrating and the combat absurd. That does give it some memorable moments like the Jabberwock fight, but all in all it's terrible game for people who aren't insanely into weird video games.
The second game is way worse. The upgraded combat is a mess, there are no boss fights to remember save for the end which is very easy and boring. The game becomes extremely monotone by the end with the last exploration chapter being an extreme slog. This is also discounting the numerous bugs present in the game some one being game crashes.
This game would not have been a safe investment at all and I don't really see EA not publishing it as a problem. I do see keeping the rights as extremely devious though.
It's also supposed to be the last one and yet they're too cowardly to fund it.
@@ShyCorn It's as if they're afraid their bad reputation might be tarnished, lmao
@@vezokpiraka I am literally playing these games as we speak, and you just sounded like you spouted gibberish to me.
As someone who's struggled with mental illness my entire life and my sense of reality due to trauma, when I first played Alice: Madness Returns, it was so viscerally invoking for me. This game brings so much awareness to mental illness, but it's so unfortunate that they won't continue it when this is a topic that needs to be discussed.
It’s a really beautifully done series with regard to mental illness, it resonated with me similarly
Greetings, kindred spirit! 🌙 I was deeply moved by your appreciation for Alice: Madness Returns and its portrayal of mental illness. As someone who has navigated the challenges of schizophrenia, I felt a connection to your words.
Your desire for more games that explore these complex topics is one I understand intimately. Here are a few additional titles that might resonate with your quest for awareness and self-discovery:
*Little Misfortune* A whimsical journey that encourages a positive outlook on life. It's a delightful adventure that can provide a refreshing perspective. 🌟
*Persona Series* Starting from the second installment(because didnt like the first one...), this series delves into the depths of the human psyche, especially with the fourth game's exploration of C.G. Jung's shadow work. 🃏
*Spiritfarer* A heartfelt game about coping with loss and letting go. It may hit close to home, but it's a powerful tool for healing and acceptance. In this one really learns to say goodbye... 🛶
*Disgaea Series* Beneath the lighthearted surface lies a profound message of love, friendship, and unity. These games remind us of the importance of human connections. 💕
I understand the impact these games can have on personal growth and self-understanding. As someone who has found solace in these virtual worlds, I encourage you to explore these titles and discover the unique insights they offer. 🌌
May your gaming adventures continue to bring awareness and healing, and remember, we are all on a journey towards enlightenment, one game at a time!😉🧘
Both me and my mom were so sad when we heard asylum wasn't gonna be made. She was a fan since Alice: Madness Returns released. I remember sitting on the couch, watching her play it, and when I was old enough to be able to play for myself (I was almost 6 when it released), I did so and fell in love with it and the first game. Maybe it's wishful thinking, but I'm still holding out hope for the project coming to fruition in some form...Here's to hoping, I guess :)
Truth be told I’m still holding out hope as well. With any luck we’ll see Alice again someday!
If it’s any consolation, there’s a fan on Twitter who has been in the process of making Alice Asylum themselves from McGee’s book as a fan game but sticking close to the outline we already have so we’ll have at least a version of Asylum! They’ve modeled a lot already and are working on Alice’s character model right now.
I was super stoked to hear this, fingers crossed they’re left alone by EA so we can actually get this game someday!
I mean, I may be wrong, but Alice In Wonderland is public domain, so I feel like tweaking a couple things here and there should allow anyone to make a “spiritual successor” with a story that closely relates to the unreleased one
“He thinks we should follow you now,” - 19:20
Wow, never knew I could cry like this man…
It’s such a beautiful ending
I grew up playing the American McGee's Alice series. Madness Returns was actually part of what inspired me to become a psychologist. While the game was a bit grandiose, I remembered thinking that I wanted to help people in the same place as Alice. That I wanted to push aside the "Bumbies" of the world and be someone who genuinely helps. Hearing about Asylum's cancelation was actually really devastating to me. It didn't throw me into a fit of tears, but I did spend a short while depressed at seeing the thing that inspired me be so callously rejected. I wish they'd just sold the rights. If they don't want to make the game, if they're so sure it'll be a waste of money, then why not sell the rights and make money off of an IP you plan to do nothing with? But EA decided to show that they're still the scummiest gaming company on the planet. I recently saw Madness Returns on Steam for a pittance and purchased it. With a bit of help, I was able to even unlock the full playable version of the first Alice game, and unlocked all the DLCs. And now? I plan to avoid as many EA games as possible.
And taking a look at all the cut content from Madness Returns and how they damaged the quality of the game by rushing McGee always infuriated me. Canceled boss fights, axed weapons; we were handed a stripped down version of a game that could have been groundbreaking. Instead, thanks to EA, the only ground that was broke was to dig the series' grave.
There was so much cut content for Madness Returns, it’s bonkers. I did my most recent playthrough of Alice 1 via the Steam version of Madness Returns as well, it runs fantastic on modern hardware without any tinkering which was a shock.
@@ShyCorn
Agreed! I'm excited to give it another go. It's been about a decade since I played it last, and I can't wait to enjoy it all again.
If you actually follow their development process lives and discussions, you will know that this game series is American's beloved child sort of project. The devs did literally everything they could to make it happen including trying to fund them themselves from the merch, but it is just not attainable. EA games made it even more difficult for them by refusing to let go of the outdated copyrights for YEARS and making it so they were not able to give the game the green light when there were people and companies interested to fund it privately years ago. The design bible and everything they need concept wise to start creating the game as well as hugh end pitches have been COMPLETED for many years now as well. They really wanted to make this game.
I’m glad we still have the design bible available to us, but it really is a shame how EA handled the situation
I think American Mcgee should make a similar game, but based on peter Pan or Wizard of Oz. Those are settings ripe for a twisted reimagining.
Well he did try to fundraise Ozombie a while back, but it didn‘t pan out.
Also, he has made himself clear that he will not return to the video game industry
I’d just be happy to see him return to the industry in any capacity
I would too, trust me!
I would have loved to see Asylum in video game form too.
At the very least I can be happy to have gotten the opportunity to be one of the people that were trying to show EA he had support of fans for the production.
I still got things in return which is now very dear to me, the bible that I made into a hardcover, challenge coins and posters during all the fundraising
I would genuinely love to get the design bible made into hardcover, how did you go about that?
I went to a printer in my area that accepts low volume printing (much more expensive)
Sent the pdf and chose the “specs“ of the book I guess.
Then I waited haha
I had heard about this game series but I had never played it and had no idea the story was this in depth and character driven. Sudd let I am being confronted with a small grief about the third game never coming to fruition/the series reaching its conclusion. What devastates me more is reading about American McGee giving up and dropping the games industry completely. EA treated this series so badly the creator had to leave to salvage his emotions that’s so sad.
Thank you for making this video
It broke my heart to see him leave the industry, such an awful way for things to have happened
You missed something thematic about the "Shrink" mechanic. Alice needing to shrink in order to find the way forward and paths to hidden memories could also be a reference to psychologists etc. being called "shrinks"
Or finding alternate ways of dealing with things
I might have the hottest take in all of this comment section. I loved Madness Returns. I grew up on Madness Returns, it fueled my love for the horror genre to this day. When I found out about Alice 3 on Patreon, I was so incredibly excited. I backed this project for at least a year I believe. Some of my current long-standing friends are from this project, meeting in the discord and passionately and actively talking about Alice.
I however stopped backing the Patreon at one point. And so did the friends I made that also backed the project. Maybe after I left American refined the Asylum story to how you say it was refined to have a "conclusive end to the series", but I can tell you that originally that was not the case. There were many live sessions had where American did talk about wanting the game to go over the 5 stages of grief. He did talk about enemy designs and game concepts (I actually inspired how the health system worked). He also did talk about having a hard time finding investors.
His solution to his investor problem was creating his own studio. Which made sense at the time. If you can't find someone to help you, take matters into your own hands. It was smart of him to want to create a different, simple game first to get his new studio off the ground. But it became very clear to me and the others that I had interacted with from the Patreon that American's focus was drifting more and more away from Alice 3. Maybe he already knew at that time that there was no going back. But it was admittedly really disheartening seeing that he went from actually talking about and working on Alice 3 to focusing on "How can I make a Disneyland-like theme park out of Alice for my new studio".
The theme park idea in general would of been sick as hell. But personally, I believe because American had his son around one of the times of the live sessions that his focus became shifted. Alice 3 was set to fail, not just because of EA. I'm not saying American didn't have his heart in this because I'm sure at one point, he did. But that got lost in translation at some point.
I'm not saying this as a jaded fan. I'm not saying this to rag on American. At the end of the day, I genuinely do love the series. I have multiple several-page documents of ideas I had for the story of Alice 3 when the Patreon was still a fledging and ideas I had for gamplay. I even have a Vorpal Bunny plushie that I won from a raffle from one of the live sessions. But because I love the series so much, it was really heartbreaking to tell early on this was going to crash and burn
And today still hurt about the cancellation, like it's just one last game for the Alice franchise but then EA blow it over with the most in denial and backwards statement without realizing there are ACTUAL fans for the series. I honestly wish they could give the IP off to Bethesda or mcgee (if hes willing to come back to the game industry) and move on rather holding on to it and doing nothing with it.
If anything were to bring him back, I’d bet it would be Alice
"he says we should follow you now" is such an amazing full circle moment 😭😭😭😭 i really hope one day eventually we'll get asylum in one way or another
I loved that moment so much
I remember hearing from a former game reviewer/journalist not to get involved in the video game industry unless you're okay with having your dreams crushed repeatedly. Or maybe I dreamed it up idk I remember hearing it somewhere. It's just sad that it seems more and more true as time passes. I wonder how many great games could have been made but never see the light of day because it's seen as too risky to fund.
As fascinating as it is seeing what’s on the cutting room floor, it’s also quite sad when you see some of the amazing things players never got to experience
My Friend once asked me why I would never want to be a game developer since I am so vocal about games and I love games the most. This comment perfectly sums it up. It's a money industry now where creativity and dreams go to die. Where you will spend your career making slop games and then getting fired when it sells under £10 whilst your executive gets himself another bonus.
as a former child of foster care, i loved this game, along with your video. i wish i could give this infinite thumbs up. it was one of the best ps3 games i ever played. id rank this game right up with HZD and death stranding. i loved the look and play aspect of madness, and alice's different costumes were awesome. i felt her pain throughout the game, her journey became my mental psycho release. it bummed me out so much when i read a while back we probly wouldnt get a 3rd. i kept wiping my eyes in the end when you talked about what the 3rd would have been. how fitting that becos of greed, we wont get an end to her story of fighting pain brought on by greed and corruption, from a company known for that. huge hug to you and everyone who played this and shared that journey, we lived that moment and it made the journey worth it.
Thank you for such a kind comment, I’m glad you liked the video :)
I think about Alice Asylum so often and every time i am so heartbroken- Madness Returns is so special to me as a huge fan of the original Alice story. I hope one day American Mcgee is able to get the rights to his wonderful creation
Hopefully we see the fan project release in a few years!
Honest this is one of the greatest travesties in video gaming history. It was so well thought out and showed a comeback from the very brink to leading others down the road to healing.
I wish he still had the drive to release this as another IP that he owns. Name and a couple of design changes to remove "wonderland" "White rabbit" and "Alice". But the amount of work to do it I understand how he could lose drive. I miss this game even though it wasnt released. :(
Alice is the female protagonist no one talks about and that's a shame. Her story and character development is one of utter horror and hopelessness turned triumph and healing depicted in beautiful dark gothic themes. In an age of games that are more about profit, Alice is a game of profound presence and art, a dwindling black flame of what games used to be and so rarely are in the modern world.
The only game i have played in recent memory that dares to dance in the same dark fields of internal struggle like Alice did was, to my surprise, Returnal. It was received VERY well by the gaming community and that at least give me hope for Alice in some way or another. Its unlikely but its another black flame of hope and ill take it.
I loved Returnal
I was waiting for the third game for a long time because when I was younger I had a fixation with everything Alice in Wonderland, and when I found playthroughs of Alice Madness Return I fell in love with the aesthetic, the gore, the dark tone and themes in the story and the design of both the supporting cast and Alice. Thinking that this game might never be made breaks my heart given the stunning concept art we got... (BTW not me thinking with my copium brain that someone could develop a TTRPG module from the world and concept art knowing full well that the story doesn't work without Alice 😅)
I'm just glad we still have the design bible so we know how McGee would have wanted things to end
"He thinks we should follow you now" is one of the best lines I've ever heard from a game, and it wasn't ever made. =(
as everyone else, i was crushed when i found out Asylum would never be. I recently got all the four weapons from Madness Returns tattooed as an homage for McGee's games and my love for them. It feels good to see that, even so many years after the release of the last game, people are still releasing videos like this singing it's praises, god knows it's deserved. I hope McGee knows how many people out here will always love his Alice, regardless, and maybe even especially, of Asylum's cancellation.
i wish more developers would make games like this with such a dept and cool gameplay and art style... hope the 3rd one comes out eventually
It’s a shame that this game was scrapped. The market is so saturated with FPS, Souls-like, live service, etc. this game would have been amazing. You can tell how dedicated the team behind it was.
Fingers crossed we see the series return one day
Brb weeping about it.
This video game franchise made me feel seen growing up in a broken, fucked up home. It gave me ways to convey the trauma I experienced before I knew how to ask for help, or even that I could.
That last game reflects a lot of my experiences as a mentally ill adult processing, and healing from, trauma. That ending directly reflects the motto I try to live by now ("Be the adult I needed), and it breaks my heart I won't be able to see this game get made.
Thank you for this video man
Games like Alice are important because they can help us process things, reframe our thoughts, see things from a new perspective, and ultimately heal. I’m glad this series, and the video, resonated with you similarly to how it resonates with me. Thank you for watching, it means a lot.
14:04 A game like this with what sounds like DS1 style level-design would have been legendary. I loved Madness Returns, beautiful game.
EA hated Alice: Asylum because they saw themselves in the final boss that was obsessed with money.
The thing is, I don’t know if a lot of OG fans would even be too interested in Alice asylum without the original creator because I know I would feel bitterness
JUSTICE FOR MCGEE
Madness Returns was so much fun. Love the unlockable outfits.
Would be amazing if the third game was made through crowd funding and all three were on the Switch.
People are fed up with AAA, and there are games that defy the "industry standard", like Hellblade from Ninja Theory. Sometimes AAA devs are fed up as well, which can lead to quite promising stuff like the Forever Winter.
I’ve gotta check out Forever Winter
Alice: Otherlands was an interesting aside for American McGee. I backed it on kickstarter in like 2012, when Alice 3 was first being denied by EA.
I’m just glad we got some extra Alice media despite the cancellation of Asylum
Honetly if it wasn't for my sister I probably wouldn't know about this game, but I'm so glad I knew about it since I was 10 or something. I followed along Mcgees updates about Alice Asylum whenever he would post them and it broke my heart to see him announce that he was giving up. I hope maybe someday someone else takes on his project or maybe he rethinks his decisions and tries again, but whatever he does I'm also happy with Alice madness returns because of how great it is.
I disagree with your closing statement that a game like Alice: Asylum will likely never be made.
While the industry does favour bland moneymaking titles over meaningful artistic expression, we can regularly see creatives fighting back against this trend.
Psychonauts 2 is a great example. It hides its serious themes behind a playful cartoonish artstyle, but it also deals with psychology and trauma, and it was released 10 years after Madness Returns.
I think the double-A realm and indies offer a lot more experiences similar to the Alice series. My closing statement was more in regard to the triple-A space. I would love to cover Psychonauts someday here as well!
I remember playing madness returns years ago when I was university, I still remember how I followed the development of Asylum and the excitement of playing the sequel but getting disheartened learning of it's cancellation. It still has a place in my heart for it's great storytelling.
Damn, this video gave me the kind of closure for the Alice series I didn't even know I needed.
I'm really glad to hear that! It gave me some closure on the series making it as well. Hope to see you around in the comments often :]
mannnnnnnnn that ending was so bittersweet UGHH
There’s actually an after-credits scene where we see Alice running her own orphanage and all of the kids are finally safe and happy
@@ShyCornwtf? Bro I’ve never played any of the games but just from listening to you and seeing the small tid bits I wanted to cry it a river 😢 and then you drop even more stuff like this extra after scene in someone’s comment. Holy hells man! 😂. This game was truly a work of art that now I feel bad for not giving the time of day, before I had seen it’s cover ahd thought it was interesting but back then I suppose interest just didn’t collide and I was pretty stupid so I definitely didn’t have a good eye for quality just yet
*I saw your video come across my FYP and i couldn't resist watching it, I genuinely love deep dives into the loss of Alice Asylum and McGee's true brilliance and passion.*
*Even though I was not a big fan of the game long as the others have been, I genuinely believe this game couldve done well in the industry, with the rise of topics about mental health that were once (and unfortunately still is) seen as taboo and unreal, Alice Asylum couldve reached and touched the hearts and minds of many and encouraged the delve into discussions of the horrors, for a lack of a better word, the torture, of mental health. I would dare say it could even have been used as an example of what many people live with a lot, guilt.*
*all I wanted to say was thanks for making this video, I'll definitely be using it as entertainment as i eat 💗🙏*
I really appreciate that, I’m glad you liked it!
I remember being so excited to hear about another Alice game, I got excited seeing the outfits and ideas. When I heard it was canceled, I thought it was some bad joke. :(
But if anyone wants to feel the void of not having an Alice game, there's one being made currently called Habromania.
I’ll have to look into that!
@@ShyCornI highly recommend, it's drawn by hand and it looks amazing! The demo is going to come later this year I think.
I didn't expect such deep knowledge of the series from this video, very enlightening even for non-gamers. You should probably have a title more focused on psychological part of McGee's Alice to attract a bigger viewership as it goes deeper than just a game :D
I really appreciate that, thank you!
I love how Alice Madness Returns started, cause it was played by famous youtubers; Pewdiepie for example, played it 11 years ago, then newer youtubers played it like 2-3 years ago. I hope the creator will be inspired to create another part of this amazing game because it's very beautiful, dark but beautiful.
This wouldn't be the first time American McGee didn't get to make a game. before Alice Asylum, he wanted to make a twisted grotesque game called OZombie. It was to be taking place in the world of Wizard of Oz and he had the concept art ready. He tried a KickStarter.... and it failed. He was asking for $900K in order to get the game going. Afterwards when asked if he would continue making the game if a company ever showed interest and would fund him, he said he wouldn't. McGee has made other projects that were successful, such as 'Grimm' and 'Into the Woods'. For now, after Asylum got canned.... he has retired from making games and instead is making YT videos about spending time with his family in China.
this makes me sad to be honest. i'm happy to see a lot of people still remember and appreciate the alice games, to this day i use the family portrait from alice madness returns as my background, and i would inmediately buy a sequel, that game really made me feel a lot and inspired me artistically too when honestly not much around me let me (very repressive catholic school and family)
I’m glad the game inspired you so much!
I’ve been watching a lot of “cancelled games” content and it’s so disheartening to realize where the gaming industry is headed towards. There’s so many games that simply lose to profit even before being fleshed out, their rights already bought or owned and tossed into oblivion. Not only do they kill the idea but they kill it for everyone. I wish they would hold auctions for passionate devs or smaller studios to be able to buy the rights to games and continue their legacy but alas, how would companies make sure that they didn’t toss a winning idea then?
It’s incredibly sad to see how much art gets lost in the numbers game
One can hope that EA goes the way ubisoft has been. But goes bankrupt instead of a possible buyout.
@@mattd5240 I think that'd be the best for all parties except EA. It's such a big company though that I 100% think it's going to be bought out instead on its way out.
@ThePaintedCookie Well, yeah. They're not going to go completely bankrupt. I just think that one day they'll go the way of ubisoft.
I have played Alice Madness returns, but I had no idea Asylum existed or the first one either, ngl
You should give the first game a shot, it holds up remarkably well!
Did you get the digital version? Cos the discs version of madness returns came with a free download code for the first Alice game. A month ago I went back to my PS3 and started playing these 2 again.
I still have Return to Madness installed on my PC to this day. It's an amazing series and the world is lesser for its lack of completion.
These games have been treated so badly by EA. It's so weird to me. If they have so little faith in the series, just sell him the rights? It makes me wonder if they're holding out on some plans of their own for the games or their own third installment, but that doesn't feel like the case with how they treat them. It's just an odd way to treat a creator, especially with the rising cult appreciation for the first two games.
After the success they’ve seen with other single-player titles like the recent Jedi series, you’d think EA would have a renewed appreciation for these types of experiences and their commercial viability, but apparently not. Hopefully McGee one day returns to the industry and is allowed to make this final installment in the franchise.
Theres a depressing sort of irony of Alice Asylum being cancelled
In an industry filled with people saying they want to push boundaries, ideas that ACTUALLY push said boundaries are killed off
You dont want to push boundaries. You want to FEEL like you are without actually doing so. And that makes the industry so much more stale
In an industry filled with so many problems from loot systems to pay to play pushings, we need ideas like Alice to actually make a real change. But sadly those ideas never will be given said chance. People are afraid to take risk due to not wanting to rock waters as well as i guarantee they can make billions off it in the first day. What a time to play games...
Thank you for this breakdown and deep dive that may not have gotten to experience Alice's wonderfully dark story. As a patron of American McGee's final game, the ultimate nail on the coffin came from EA not ONLY denying him backing to make the game but they wouldn't even release the rights of Alice back to him. He could have easily got another studio outside of EA to fulfill his dream but legally, EA wouldnt let him. He was so destroyed after years of hard work that he rarely even talks about the project anymore. I feel so bad for the guy and honestly, hope at some point in his lifetime, he's able to somehow get the game created
This is one of the most interesting games I came across ages ago, never knew it has such an inspiring and tragic story. Like I need another reason to hate EA...
I loved both of these games and found them... Beautiful in a sense. The first had difficult controls to manage on mouse+kboard, but I thoroughly enjoyed Madness Returns using a controller. I had no idea Asylum was even an idea in the works.
I ended up muscling through Alice 1 on mouse and keyboard because I couldn't be bothered to figure out the controller mapping shenanigans with my third-party controller. Thanks for watching!
McGee's Alice did not influence Silent Hill 2 or Metal Gear Solid 2's psychological and emotional themes. Those games would have already been in production at the time or were simply following themes from their predecessors. Both Silent Hill 2 and Metal Gear Solid 2 have well-documented influences, and during the late 1990s and early 2000s, there was a growing trend in media toward exploring surrealism, psychological trauma, and altered perceptions of reality. McGee's Alice's definitely is one of the first video games to seriously and respectfully portray mental illness, but Silent Hill 2 and MGS2 are quite unrelated. Where did you get this from?
Sorry if I was unclear, I mean that Alice helped pave the way for those titles to succeed in the market, not that it necessarily directly influenced their production
These games came into my life during the absolute lowest I'd ever been. I remember playing a little bit of the original as a child, and that little bit stayed with me as a core memory, until 2014 when i was scrolling through the PSN library, and uttered "oh shit, i remember this game, it got a sequel?"
At this point, I'd been through some hardships I would never have fathomed as a kid, even going to the point of repeatedly attempting and failing suicide. So, I forgot about my own reality when I dove into Wonderland again. But there were several moments of playing through Madness Returns, where the symbolism, and art direction of the game matched my own warped and twisted perception of reality.
I saw only gray and red in my world, and Alice did, too. I saw myself as a twisted mockery in the mirror, as Alice does when she activates Hysteria. Reality and my twisted view of it meshed together sporadically, just as Wonderland bled into Alice's reality. In essence, I saw so much of my own trauma, and mental illness represented in this simple little platformer. I identified with Alice so much, that I chose my new name, and now it feels so natural to respond to Alice, or Alli.
I was heartbroken when I found out that Asylum was refused by EA for reasons that I must admit, didn't surprise me, but disgusted me all the same. These games showed mental illness and trauma with such respect, and with such startling accuracy that it became a comfort to me, and I'm sure many others. The fact that the first game, and Madness Returns are both complete, undissected packages of gameplay and content was just a happy bonus for me. These games are so brutally honest that, of course I wanted more, and was beyond giddy that American Mcgee was bringing out concept art and ideas for a third game.
It's a video game, plain and simple. But for those of us who saw it for its brutal honesty, its unwillingness to compromise, and its passion for an accurate, and unabridged expression of trauma, and mental illness, it's special. I played this almost immediately after exiting a mental ward of a hospital, and many moments are harshly reflective of my own experiences. Alice's memories of her stay in the asylum during Madness Returns being perhaps the most disturbingly accurate for me, right down to seeing blood in the walls. Art like this needs to be shared.
I'm sorry for rambling, but hopefully this gives some insight for how life changing video games can be, when they're allowed to be honest. Also, this is a wonderful video, and I hope we get a second chance for these games. I know Mcgee was perhaps the most heartbroken of all of us, and he left the game industry after this, but I still hope. It's special to many people.
Never apologize for sharing your story. I’m glad you’re still here :)
@ShyCorn thank you. ❤️
Fun fact for something positive here: The official demo of American McGeee's Alice served as a prologue to the main game! So the full experience actually includes the demo within the narrative. Where the full game picks up when Alice falls down the rabbit hole, the demo tells the story of how she got there in the first place. Granted, it includes some minor game mechanics as a preview but moving part of the story to the demo is an ingenious move in my eyes,
That's a kind of effort I've never since seen put forth and will always stand out to me as a testament to the creative medium. Plus, AMcGA has one of the best original music I've ever experienced with Trent Reznor playing actual children's instruments. Such a treat.
That’s an awesome way to handle a demo, I never knew about that!
@@ShyCorn Absolutely, yeah. At least one other example would be "Half-Life: Uplink" which definitely also added to the lore with a full stand-alone mission. I've never heard anybody talk about this topic - maybe it could be something for you to delve into? I suspect there are other games that did that as well, but also that information about this would be hard to come by. A short documentation about "The time when video game demos added to the story" would be heaven. And also probably very interesting for younger generations to hear!
This game is still loved - I wish the third game would have come out or maybe now in the future with same art style and modern things would have been a wonder to behold.
Same here, but there is a fan project for it we can follow along with in the meantime!
this video was randomly recommended to me on my home page. i loved madness returns when i played it, and i didnt even know that there was going to be a third one, let alone that it was canceled. but i just wanted to say that i really appreciate the passion and honesty in your narration. definitely earned an instant subscribe. i really hope you cover games like outer wilds, or the nier series!
I plan to cover both of those soon! Thank you :)
Anri gveras is making Alice: Asylum as a fan project
I’ll have to look into this, that would be amazing to see it come to fruition!
God i hope that it manages to make it.
Me too
They broke mcgee's heart so bad with turning down this project, that he decided to leave game development all together. He even said he won't come back if they suddenly change their minds and he also doesn't want to discuss anything involving game development anymore. EA really killed his love for the business.
The first game is still my favorite game of all time. It combines a ton of elements and themes that I enjoy, and, way back when, it has taught me that videogames are an incredibly powerful media to explore all kinds of themes. AMR was a big disappointment in comparison: 1) it was different, closer to collectathon platformers like Spyro which I haven't played at the time, and 2) it felt lesser in every regard: less polish, less weapons, less impactful music, less realized ideas (read the artbook, it's true)... But, over the years, I've come to accept that game for what it is, as well.
What I truly wish is that both McGee and his fans find a way to move on. He did make other games, you know; he did have other interesting ideas. He is not a one-trick pony, even though that pony was freaking brilliant and hard to top. I, for one, would like to see more of Akaneiro universe; hell, Bad Day LA was a hilarious idea, if questionably executed. But I'd love to see anything coming from his mind.
I would like to cover more of his work in the future
I actually remember him talking about this game years ago on FB. He did some like gofundme events with books or goodies that got sent out.
Thank you for covering this, just like some others on YT did, even though it happened a long time ago. Videos like this are important!
Glad you enjoyed it! Hope to see you in the comments again soon!
If the creator could ever get the IP back, I think the best Studios for it to go to are either Young Horse or Psychonauts. I think both studios would be respectful of those wishes if their other games are to be judged.
This is a fantastic video and analysis. This was and is one of the most visually beautiful and narratively fantastic series ever made. There were absolutely some gameplay issues. 1's combat either was super cheesable or very painful with very little in between with some weapons that were more or less useless due to how hard they were to use vs the cost of using them (looking at you jack in the box). And 2 left me feeling cheated out of a few boss fights (though the final fight was amazing and well worth the wait) and the quadruple jump kinda left levels feeling a bit too spread out. But all that was forgivable because the sheer love that the creators had for it shined through and made it *fun*. Asylum getting cancelled is heartbreaking.
On a lighter note, my brain also did a record scratch at 2:45 because you showed a grashopper tea pickup that I don't think I've ever seen. I remember loving the absurdity of the powerup's hilarious speed boost being a lot of fun, but I was only ever able to find two the entire game. I mean... Maybe I found that one? Its been over a decade and a half since I played it last. But I don't remember lava.
Edit: Guides at the time also only noted the one grasshopper tea under the metal mesh bridge in one of the areas before the hatter boss fight or they simply stated the powerup existed but was extremely rare. So I could not look it up.
Thank you so much! That might just mean you’ve got an excuse to go replay the game sometime soon!
@@ShyCorn hah! If only I could get my hands on a working copy in this day in age or find the time to make it work. I would love to replay them both. IIRC the steam version of madness returns never offered the deluxe version that included the first game.
There’s some guides on the Steam community page for getting the deluxe version with the original game working! Only took me about 10-15 minutes to do!
@@ShyCorn you have my attention. I'll go look into it. Maybe I'll find 3 grasshopper teas this playthrough. There's gotta be mroe than 2 in the whole game... (though I also only ever found 2 mirrors so what do I know?)
I love these games, unfortunately I am hot garbage at platforming due to the fact I have like zero depth perception.
1:53 i can see this videos going to be a real downer all doom and gloom for the gaming industry in general... and thats well earned, but there is hope in indie development, outside the greedy insidous sickly claws of the AAAA industry meat grinder that buys the talents of those with real vission and skill then discards them when theyre done, there is hope for a third alice game, if its creator can only see where to look, patreon, go fund me, some of the greatest victories in gaming have been indie devs that bet on theyre own greatness being valued by the gaming comunity... alices creator said he's done with gaming, fine if he refuses to see a potential path in indie then as always, another indie dev will just have to do what he cant or wont, as usual.
I hadn’t actually heard what the plan for Alice: Asylum would be before, now I’m even more upset that we won’t see it
And they'll sit on the Alice IP for 120 years or more now
Let's hope not!
"we should follow you now" effin hell I can't belive we were robbed of that ending
This makes me want to boot up Alice: Madness Returns and play through it while i'm sick. Seriously disappointed that we'll never get Asylum. EA a joke company these days anyway, if he could just GET the rights, I'm sure he could fund it as an indie project.
Boot it up and feel better soon! It’s a shame they drove him out of the industry with how they handled Asylum
i wanna thank you for the effort you put into this video. especially at the end where you shared that profound song. thank you!
I’m glad you liked it!
The loss of this great game breaks my heart. It's so g-d sad that EA can throttle something great like this.
It's even worse that they drove American McGee out of the industry with their mishandling of the situation. Hopefully we see him return one day
It is an absolute crime that the 3rd game was never greenlit.
PEople would still be talking about it to this day and it would have set the bar for entire genres of games for generations to come.
I love the 'Alice' games! I'm actually planning to create a few Alice games myself sometime in the future. Nothing this amazing looking of course, but something that Alice fans might enjoy.
That’s awesome! What style of game would they be?
@@ShyCorn Well I'm actually starting really small. I'm a writer so it's going to be an 'interactive book' kind of deal. Like a choose your own adventure book. I know that probably doesn't sound too exciting, but I'm starting small.
I love books, it sounds exciting! Reminds me a little of those Alice flash games from years ago, I still go back to play them even now
@@ShyCorn Same here. I'm actually collecting a bunch of Alice games right now. I'm planning on making a youtube channel dedicated to them. Not all are horror themed, but it's my goal.
It is a shame that the 3rd game was canceled because not only were these games beautiful in their own twisted ways while tackling subjects matter that you don't see very often or if you do it's usually not in a good light with those who struggle with mental illness being treated like the villian or antagonist. The hesitation from EA just shows that they were afraid that the dev team would be able to succeed without them & considering that the creator is now making adorble pushie rabbits (among other animals) it would have probably ended up coming true
I actually do want one of those plushies
@ShyCorn I have several and will say they are worth it because of how well they are made and soft they are regardless of which one you end up getting & they do have occasional sells to keep an eye out for
I will never forgive EA for doing this to American McGee. I was a sort of fan of him and was just-- CHOMPING at the bit to see the trilogy come to an end. But after this, I will never EVER give them a single cent from me. Despite the jankiness of the first game and the slight brevity of Madness Returns, I still loved the darker takes on it.
Fingers crossed he finds success in other fields.
Ngl you reached with the metal gear and silent hill thing
Yeah, I kinda feel that too. Alice wasn't the first to delve into psychological exploration by a long shot. 😅
Still was a fun vid tho.😁
Even if EA makes an Alice 3, it won’t be worth buying/should only be pirated after the blatant disrespect they showed American McGee.
Oh my god. As someone who has been through tragedy, was assaulted at a young (but still adult) age, and still hasn’t processed the grief of losing family, I feel like I can understand Alice through these games. And that ending… That beautiful, sweet, lovely ending… would have been PERFECT. “He says we should follow you” is such a tender and sweet moment to tie the games together. Because someone is trusting Alice after everything she’s been through.
I’m so glad we got to know the ending, especially one this beautiful, even if it wasn’t in a full game
Alice Asylum never sees the light but other games got remastered several times even though we never asked for it.
Y’all we need to get this man to 1M this is better than most of the 500k sub channels good job man
That means a ton, holy moly thank you so much
Np man thx for commenting
On my comment
The fact that we will most likely never see this last entry is something that still lives rent-free in the back of my head. It is such a major loss.
please get to the point
There’s chapters available in the video player if there’s any specific sections you’re more interested in than others. Thank you for watching :)
Such a shame, Alice’s confrontation with the queen in Madness and that monologue she has is one of the greatest moments and something I will always remember.
I have played both games. I miss games that are truly thought provoking and doesn't just distinguishes itself for not having monetization or because of its constant updates to keep from going stale. Its a game that will leave a permanent memory for every element the game covered and seamlessly weaved together. The art, the world design, the characters, the combat, the story, and the end goal all displayed without compromise or rushed additions. We almost never get all that in one game anymore