This needs more attention. Searching for an hour and lots of videos with nothing but opinions. Thank you for doing REAL testing and covering ALL the orientations. Great work
HUUUUUGGE respect for this. Can't even imagine the time you must've invested for this video. Thanks a lot for the graphs and the thorough testing. Subscriber for life.
Thanks for posting this feedback, it means a lot to me. A lot people have enjoyed this video, and that's great, but most people probably don't realize what it took to put it together. It was a lot of work not just to do the actual benchmarking, but also to do the preparation and planning, including polling my viewers, in order to make sure the results would be meaningful. Going through all of this and getting useless results would have been a major disappointment. Well, I guess it's up to my viewers to decide if it was useful or useless, but it sounds like you at least appreciated it!
Ok. Good to see the 120mm x 5 or 6 performing well as my new setup will resemble that. The latter proving a second top exhaust doesn’t interfere with front inflow. Appreciate the time you spent here 👍🏼.
Well, that 140mm performance was disappointing. I did not expect those results. I thought the bigger the fan the better from a noise normalized perspective. Boy I was wrong! I guess I will just buy more P12 fans haha. Great video as always sir. Thank you for taking the time to experiment with so many configurations!
I was a bit disappointed too, but it doesn't mean they are bad fans. In the 3- and 4-fan configurations, they were actually better than the 120s. But putting 5 in the case just added a bit too much turbulence, which increased noise and may have disrupted airflow out of the chassis.
After seeing that you got better GPU cooling with one front fan vs. two, I tried this out and got some different results. I got 2 degree lower GPU temps with 2 front and 1 rear fan than with 1 front and 1 rear fan, where you got two degree higher temps with the two front fans. All fan speeds were locked for this testing, I think the problem with your 2 front fan test here is that you've put the second fan in the top position, rather than the bottom one. In my testing, two fans in the middle and bottom positions improve cooling for both the GPU and CPU vs just one fan.
Excellent work! I’ve worked with dozens of cases and even more fans over the years. I did carry out my own measurements of temp, noise and vibration and despite occasional variations I can only concur with you. Your conclusions are spot on. Well done !
Hi friend, thanks for the precious time you spent, I have the same case and both Arctic P12 PWM and Noctua NF-A 12x25 PWM, it is clear that every computer, case and fan will make a difference, every case is unique, I have put 3 Arctic P12 in front (away from the filter) and 3 Noctua NF-A 12x25 1 rear and 2 top, the noise is almost absent at low speed but if I increase the Noctua are heard, previously I put Noctua in front (near to the filter) and Arctic rear and top, the noise is also absent in this case at low speed, but if I increase, the Noctua are heard! then I did another test with the Noctua (away from the filter) and I get an annoying resonance noise from the bearing, it is really difficult to find the right compromise between performance and noise but I want to say that the Noctua even if they are noisier, they blow more air than the Arctic and the temperatures drop by 2/3 degrees, the Arctic P12 are nice and very quiet but do not blow much air, certainly the biggest problems occur in summer and with these hot temperatures, if the room is not air-conditioned you have to increase the speed and bear the noise, this is the only solution with any computer, case, fan etc ... if the room is air conditioned then you can also run all the fans at 1000 rpm in idle and get a nice fresh computer!
Thank you for this video. I have a BQ PB500 case with mixed old fans from BQ (120, 140 / silent, dark, pure, similar positioning) Now I've purchased 6 of the arctic p12 and set it up the same way...immediately 10-15 degree lower temps on my idle GPU (no fans running) on 20% case fan rpm, nice! Thank you very, very much!
Arctic fans are solid budget fans, and the 5-pack is a wonderful value. As an alternative, I recommend MetallicGear Skiron fans, whenever you can find them for a good budget price. They're made by Phantek. These fans are a slightly better 9-blade design for airflow compared to Arctics, but more importantly, the Skirons are close to the cheapest case fans you can which include rubber mounts to reduce vibration noise. Decent quality rifle-bearings, slightly improved on the ball-bearings in Arctic fans. Arctics have a cooler motor, however, which increases their lifespan over the Skirons.
I really like in depth comparisons with case fans. I've watched previous videos and you really cover the issues that bug a person like myself who cannot stand noise issues caused by case fans. I've experience harmonic resonance issues with noctua that are not going to show up on a "decibel meter", but I would rather have high decibels than to hear that awful sound. I don't know how anyone can work next to a machine noises like that all day. The cons of having good hearing I guess. You also make a great point to control the RPMs of the fans to get the right amount of airflow where your specific case isn't making groaning noises.
Glad I could provide some useful insights! Fan performance is incredibly complex, which might be why you don't see many other TH-camrs trying to tackle it! I definitely can't cover it all, but I try to give people something to think about beyond specs on a website, which is how most people have bought fans for decades.
I'm two minutes, and 55 seconds in; you haven't done any testing yet, and I'm already loving it. EDIT: I just finished watching the video, that had to have been one of the quickest 15 minutes of my life. The Premises that you've just opened up are all highly interesting, and don't get me started on the delivery, PERFECT! ....For me, at least. I'm sure the majority of other users that don't think to look at this sort of content would probably prefer to be told "What's better, 120mm or the 140mm fans?" followed up by "Which is the optimal placement". They'll have a fit right in front of you if you dare use the word "variables" in a sentences to them.
Thanks for watching the whole thing, and I'm glad to hear it didn't drag on for you despite all the data! I do heavily edit my videos to cut out the chatter (stuff that seems interesting as it comes out of my mouth but isn't once I listen to it!). Truth be told, I fully expected different results, even testing the setup that I thought was "right" at the end so I could keep it running in my system only to find that it was terrible (that was with the top fan flipped). I do hope that this video opens up a new dialog on PC cooling, because I don't think some of these issues have been fully examined thus far. Of course, I left about a million variables on the table for others to play with, so it's not like this conversation is over, it's only just begun!
@@TheTechBuyersGuru This message is a bit lengthy, I get carried away in writing/research sometimes and then realise what time it is and how long I've invested towards sharing a suggestion. From my perspective, your last video has opened up a whole new ballgame in regards to testing, the problem is, there's no way we could expect you to cover each new door. I went through the latest comments on this video, which you've done a stellar job at responding too. It seems some people would still like you to take their suggestions into account with testing, but with your level of detail, their requests are much larger than they realise. Perhaps in the next video, you could consider leaning in a different direction, allowing you to still follow-up on this content by keeping the users engaged and not putting an unrealistic workload on your shoulders. I had two thoughts in mind: Directly asking your fanbase to experiment using a set of specific parameters. You could document three-five different types of experiments you'd like to see numbers in, then assign two volunteers to each experiment(if available). I'd imagine that some of these tests would help the users construct questions or statements that may make it easier for you to strategically invest your time. Their results would not be conclusive in any way; it would just help lead you towards something in which you deem interesting or valuable. The second was sending out emails to individuals who handle airflow/circulation at a professional level, something like a structural engineer working in the airflow department. Briefly explain your position. You're trying to give individuals insight to maintain their hardware safely whilst also educating users enough to indirectly lower sales towards poorly engineered cases and fans. The last statement changes depending on who you're contacting; it's supposed to be a reason that relates to their values/morals/ethics. Ask if they have time for a couple of questions if so, show them a diagram of what you thought would work, and why; then followed up with what seemed to have worked. If they're hesitant in helping, you can mention that whichever professional adequately supports will be mentioned in that video with a thank you, as well as their business subtly brought up. E.g. I want to thank John for yada yada who's currently working as an Air Conditioner manufacturer for X company." There are also some interesting ways of measuring airflow from some brief Google search pages, perhaps if you were to use a tool to take a few measurements in your worst and best case-fan setups, you might be able to find similarities which turn out to be consistent with future tests.
killer Vid. Linus Tech Tips made a similar one but didn't discuss the ins and outs of exhaust vs intake fans in the top, or the interplay between 120mm and 140mm fan types. I bought a case that unfortunately didn't allow for top mounting of a AIO pump bc of space limitations (it bumps against the mobo / ram) so this vid is a rescue of sorts. Thanks for helping me rethink my cooling design!!
Amazing analysis my guy. I really do appreciate all your tedious testing and hard work for a very informative video. I was looking forward to this video and you did not disappoint. Thanks again my guy and keep up the great content.
I have the Mesh 2 Performance. Got the 5-pack of Arctic 120s and 140s. Replaced back fan and CPU air cooler fan with the 120s. Daisy chained 3 140s at the front (can be done, the middle one is stacked behind the bracket and the top and bottom in front of it. I think I had to turn the bracket around, which is an intended config). Set at Auto it runs very very cool regardless and is silent.It's win-win all the way.
@@ElsinoreRacer Have you noticed any resonance issues? I have the p12s installed in the exact same case and noticed a bunch of resonance issues across almost the entire rpm range. This has made leaving them on auto nearly impossible since the low noise levels are ruined by the high pitched sound of the resonant frequencies when the fans ramp up and down.
Really Great job on this video 👏👏. Here is a fan weird set up that I though that might just work: - Back: 120 fan Intake - Top (above ram): 120 fan exhaust - Front Panel: # Bottom Slot: 120 fan @ 1500rpm min # Middle Slot: Empty # Top Slot: 120 fan exhaust - Finally place 1x 120mm fan on the PSU shroud below the GPU to direct air from the Front bottom fan , straight to the GPU. This set up uses 5 fans that can be bought from the value pack, provide airflow on the vrms closest to the Scythe fuma and provide cooler air in a more direct way to the GPU ! Hope you like my idea I really enjoy your content! Sometimes I just sip my coffee watching you build PCs!
This is indeed a really interesting idea, and I think adding that bottom fan is a great idea. You'd just have to make sure to flip the fans on the Fuma 2 to make that reverse airflow work, and I'm not sure they'd be quite as effective in a pull arrangement as they are in push.
@@TheTechBuyersGuru If the fans are reversed, they would be on a push configuration, pushing fresh air from the back and pulling it in the case , where it is immediately exhaust by the Top fan, am I right ?
Push and pull refers to the orientation of the fan on the heatsink (or radiator) fins. So if you have reversed the airflow in your case to go from back to front, then you need to flip the fans on the Fuma 2. This makes them "pull" fans, as they are pulling air through the fins, not pushing it. Fans are typically a bit less effective in this orientation.
@@TheTechBuyersGuru Oh alright, I get it now ! Thanks for the explanation! Theoretically tho, both push and pull configurations should level out , as RPM increases right ?
Just ordered a box of P14s last week, 5 for the half the price of one Noctua 12x25... just to test them. At 600-700rpm they are super silent and have a very pleasant sound, while moving relatively large amounts of air, certainly enough to keep everything cool. Between 700-1100, they create some slightly annoying turbulent sound, which stops at 1200rpm... here they have a louder, but pleasant sound again. Therefore, I recommend them for either silent or maximum performance builds. Still waiting for Toughfan availability in Europe... only the 140mm version is available and I am not sure about those yet.
Finally a video that actually helped me with real world direct comparisons using the same fans instead of widely different fans. Therefore the test is actually meaningful. I am going to change mine to the 3 front 1 rear 1 top and see if it helps my temps. They are not horrible but my idle temps are a little high (3900X and 2080 Super, CPU Idling at like 40-50 and GPU around 60 - which is probably acceptable anyway..but still want to have the best setup) These fans are super cheap are they really that good? Most people are going to recommend some $30 ea fans (Noctua etc) so am concerned about buying cheap fans?
Most people haven't watched my videos, so they don't know anything about what they are recommending! Are Arctic's good? See this video: th-cam.com/video/PUdsTiRmuuU/w-d-xo.html If you decide to get them, here's the link to the 5-pack: amzn.to/3APDGQ5 By the way, your high idle temps are not a reason to buy any case fans at all. Idle temps are driven entirely by the fans on the coolers and the settings you are using. I recommending using a manual fan profile on your 2080 Super so that it's NEVER at zero RPM. While that's a popular fad, it's not actually very good for anything, including maintaining idle temps, because any modern GPU will slowly climb up in temps until it requires the fans to toggle on and off, which is more annoying than leaving them on. In terms of your 3900X, idle temps are always going to be that high due to background tasks and the density of the chip. It's the CPU I bench with. To learn how it idles with high-end 360mm liquid coolers, see this video: th-cam.com/video/GLaje-5JFd4/w-d-xo.html
I've been runnning 6 P14 PWMs on my case in the setup you had in the 120mm video ( my case is P600s ), pretty sure it's the best setup with these specific fans. I've also seen some turbulence at around 70-75% fan speed.
Wow I got the very same result! I own the P600s (best case ever) and had the P12s in it first. After changing to the P14s the entire system got even quieter than before. I mean not noticeable quiet!
The odd harmonic resonance you describe is easily explained. Bear with me here. Multi engine aircraft with propellers will have a throttle power setting, obviously, but also a prop speed which can be controlled by individually controlling the feather or pitch of each propeller independently. During cruise flight the pilots are able to engage a "prop sync" button on some aircraft which will automatically feather and change the pitch of each propeller slightly to spin at the exact same speed as the other for a given power setting. If they don't, they will experience an annoying harmonic vibration or resonance. If you have three intake fans, chances are they are spinning at slightly different speeds, thus creating the annoying harmonic vibration. Note to Motherboard manufacturers: add a "fan speed syc" feature to your BIOS. Problem solved. This is assuming each fan has a direct connection to the motherboard. If they are daisy chained to the same header, you are SOL.
Which Arctic do you have, and how do you have it mounted in the 500DX? I'm curious about which combos will actually fit so I can tell others, specifically if the 240mm fits on top, for example. I know the 280 won't, but other 280mm AIOs can, as shown here! - th-cam.com/video/uUUItnZRHyM/w-d-xo.html
@@TheTechBuyersGuru I have the 280, I'm planning on front mounting and since I got the five pack of fans I'm going to see if I can pull off a push-pull configuration for the AIO, but I'm waiting on my GPU to ship. Will report back when I do get my GPU so I can pull off my build!
That could be pretty tight, but mostly because the tubes will be hard to route if mounted down (which is how the interwebz wants you to do it nowadays thanks to a GN video). The hose outlets will be below the shroud, and I think they may not bend around the inside-mounted fans to get to the CPU.
@@TheTechBuyersGuru Following up on this - I ended up just going for the standard front mount for the Arctic, without push/pull, and outfitted the whole case with P14s. Your video on the 140mm fan shootout helped a ton! My build is here: imgur.com/a/GM0ryus
Interesting you mentioned the noise you said you hear within a certain rpm range on the p12's, it's the only thing I don't like about them. Might have to grab a pack of the p14's to see if I can run them at a slightly lower rpm and not get that strange noise
Generally speaking, I haven't had this issue as much with the P14. It's a resonance of the blades due vibrations in the plastic itself - the blades are very long and can start vibrating unlike in other fans. The P14 is heavier and has thicker plastic I believe, and therefore isn't as susceptible to it.
Three fans in front and then 3 fans up top drawing out is useless, as they pull too much air away from the front and straight up and out the top. Put a fan on the bottom throwing fresh air into the GPU card. If you have solid case, cut it out and throw some screen on it, giving you access to bottom case and fresh air going up. Oh great video, great work. Thumbs up and subd.
I didn't test 2x200mm, but there is a catch with these fans. They don't provide a lot of static pressure, and typically spin at very low RPMs. They are good for "case" cooling, not so good for specific component cooling. They move a lot of air, but not in a specific direction and often not in an area where components sit.
I've watched lots of videos, especially your round ups, but unfortunately didn't come across this one. I was gonna buy exactly this case in the future and prepared by buying 3x the P14 PWM for 10 EUR each. I thought they would be PERFECT for a silent Airflow based PC using the 500DX, but right now they're inside my Fractal define R3 and create different kinds of annoying noises, when they are attached to the case, especially as intakes. So I run them at 300 RPM. Minimal airflow. Even then they sound bad. Neither my 10 year old 120mm stock fan, nor the 10 year old 135mm fan I took out of an old be quiet PSU have this problem. Do you think the new case one day would solve this issue?
Hey, thanks again for linking me to this video from your fan comparison video! I found it very informative and it answered many of my questions and you have taught me alot! I can only imagine how much time you spent painstakingly putting the test together and then creating the video, so thank you! I mentioned in the other video that I have a Lian Li lan 2 mesh performance case. It has 8 slots where I can fit 120mm fans: three on the front, two ontop, one on the back and two on the Psu shroud what are your thoughts on if I use every slot - do you see it as beneficial or counter-productive? I noticed you mentioned noise is an issue with exhaust fans on the top. I saw you recommended the 6x 120 to me in the other video. To clarify that I have this right: rear and top are exhaust, front are intake and psu shroud are intake?
I don't think using every fan slot is all that helpful. You start to add more noise than airflow. That's particularly true for fans on top, which direct noise right out of the case. I'd stick with a single fan up there. I also think having two fans on the PSU shroud is totally counterproductive, because one will be almost entirely blocked by the PSU itself. So based on the layout of the case, yes, 6x120mm: 3 in front, 1 in rear, 1 on shroud, 1 on top. For that case, two 3-packs of Arctic P12 ARGB fans would be superb: amzn.to/3hYoWWw
Could you test the same things but when using an AIO CPU cooler instead of an air cooler? I would assume that there will be differences in results. I personally have a 2x120 Arctic AIO cooler in the front of the case, towards bottom, as intake. But having issues with properly cooling down my RTX 3080 and the NVME SSD placed directly above it. I have an option to have a side fan in the GPU area, as well as 3 fans at the top and 1 at the back. Also an option for one on the bottom (floor) front. I would like to see thermal results from various placement combinations.
This case doesn't fit 3x140mm in front, so that wasn't going to happen. But there was a lot of other comp testing throughout the video, in fact I compared every other setup possible using 5x120mm or 5x140mm. So perhaps what you're actually saying is you wish I used a case that fit 3x140mm in front. Maybe someday I'll do it all over again... LOL!
Hi, I'm planning to buy a case with 1 rear intake, 2 bottom intake, and 2 top exhaust. I'm thinking of doing this with 5 arctic P12s or 3 artic P12s as intake and 2 Kaze Flex 120 as exhausts. What do you think? The P12 5pcs value pack is priced at 25usd here at my country while Kaze Flex is priced at 11.21 USD per piece. Getting 5 Kaze Flex 120s are just expensive for me. What do you think will be the better setup? Thanks
i think you need to do this again with a case that actually! supports 140mm fans in the front (so not only mounting having points, but also having a bigger cut out so the 140mm arent just partially blocked like in this case). maybe you start out by testing it only @noise normalized with 1 setup (e.g. all 120s vs all (possible) 140s?)
To mount both 120 and 140mm fans, those rails are necessary. If it disadvantages 140mm fans, that's a valid factor in the benchmarks, and it means 120mm have an advantage. I do not plan on re-doing this test.
@@TheTechBuyersGuru maybe if you are getting another shot at a similar project you have a case laying around that has less restrictive 140mm mounting :) good content in general btw.
I have a Cooler Master TD500 Mesh case with the included 3 x 120 mm fans at front, 3 x Cooler Master Sickle Flow 120 fans at top exhausting, 2 Cooler Master Sickle Flow 120 fans as CPU fans Pull/Push, and 1 x Cooler Master Sickle Flow 120 at the rear exhaust. I noticed that I am getting hot air coming from the rear, and hot air coming from the top fan closest to the rear. The other 2 top fans are blowing out really cold air out of my case. Do you think that they might be stealing the cool air from the front of the case, not allowing it to reach the back? My idle temps are around 42 to 45 AMD Ryzen 3600, and an MSI RX570 Gaming X graphics card. The max temp I got was 70 degrees CPU during Prime 95 testing after an hour. Is the cold air blowing out of the TOP fans closer to the front, okay?
Nice video! I have the corsair crystal 280x case I recently bought some rgb fans which ended up being 120mm and I wanted to install 3 on the front but there's only enough mounting holes for two 120mm is there a bracket or something I could get to all 3 fans to be mounted?
Hello I hope you can see this.I have phanteks400a and i can fit 2x140mm/3x120mm on front. 2x140mm/2x 120mm n top and 1x120mm on rear. should i have msi prob660m-a ddr4, and gtx 3070. what fans should i get?😭
Hi there, thanks for the excellent review on these fans. I'm in the market for case fans and I've been wondering whether I should go for the Arctics "F12" series (Airflow Optimized) as an exhaust for my case or should simply go all "P12" (Pressure Optimized) as shown on your review. Does it really make any difference at cooling performance at the end of the day? PS: My top exhaust, should blow against a dust filter, whereas my rear exhaust should blow against the standard chassi grill. Thanks
The F12 is an outdated design, and in my testing, the P12 has been better in all circumstances, whether that is in high-pressure applications or airflow applications. The specs are really meaningless. It is performance that matters, and the P12 is a better fan.
I just made a new PC and im buying more fans and need help to make a positive pressure. So 3x120mm front intake, 2x140mm top exaust and 1x120mm rear exaust is this correct? @The Tech Buyer's Guru
Bought 2 Scythes that go up to 1800 rpm and paired them up with two P14s that have that harmonic resonance starting at 950-1000 rpm. Both scythes are very loud compared to the P14 even with harmonic resonance. they take off like a jet at around 900 rpm. maybe they are defective, but they are loud even at 1000 rpm and i havent noticed any temp improvements.
I'm very interested in bottom intakes and considered using a case for this video that allowed that with an official mounting location. It ended up not making sense for this test, but I already have plans for a future video comparing standard setups to a setup with a bottom intake.
For the Harmonic issue at certain RPMs, did you try installing the fans using rubber pins? I tried my P12s and P14s and they didn't have the Harmonic dissonance, but I use rubber pins to mount fans
No, but this is a really interesting idea. Next time I chat with Arctic, I'm going to suggest they test this because I know they are very concerned about the issue. I'd test it but I'm on to the next topic, case and cooler reviews!
@@TheTechBuyersGuru we have actually tested it and that does not solve the issue. The problem is much more complicated than a simple resonance, we are making progress.
Vincent, so good to see you here! I imagined that it was not going to be a simple fix, but I hope that my input at least gave Arctic something to start with.
While 3x140 seems like the obvious answer, I'm increasingly convinced that for intake (not exhaust), directional, focused airflow counts more than overall airflow. The 140s produce more airflow, but potentially less down the center line where components actually sit, especially once noise normalized, which requires a lower RPM. If you are getting a 5-pack, then get 140s since you really want that in back and on top. If just buying 3, maybe 120s. I may eventually test this in a larger case than the 500DX used in the video. For now, I can only say 3x120 is better than 2x140.
How in the world does changing from 5 x 120mm fans to 5 x 140mm (@full rpm) ADD 4-5 celcius and 3db?! Adding tons more CFM (and therefore cooler air) should equal better temps? Only thing I can think of is they goofed up the 140mm version and they actually pull LESS cfm. As soon as you think you know something about pc airflow you see something like this, so complicated.
Simple. Everyone has been focused on CFM when it has almost nothing to do with cooling performance. What matters is how much air reaches your components, and that means a tightly focused channel of higher speed air, e.g., from a 120mm fan.
@@TheTechBuyersGuru so a 12cm fan has a more powerful blast of air compared to a 14cm? I always thought that it would equal out - yeah there's more cfm on a 14cm but over a larger area... that air has to be going somewhere though
@@TheTechBuyersGuru interesting, thanks for your work. Earned a sub! Still at a loss as to how best to mod my case though 😂. Basically I'm cutting out 3 holes in the lid of an HTPC case (fractal node 605) for 3 intake fans: 2 for gpu and one for cpu, then using the other slots (3x12cm, 2x8cm) for exhaust. I have the gpu mounted horizontally with a riser cable, so the 2 holes will be directly above it. The cpu fan will actually be mounted to cpu cooler, sitting out the top of the case a bit, as doing push pull. I figure direct air in is optimal for cpu, but with the gpu (most important) fans will be sat about an inch or so above the gpu blowing into it. Maybe a more concentrated blast of air with a 12cm is better than 14cm? I'm wondering if I should maybe even put a 12cm on the (14cm) cpu cooler: a noctua nh-c14s. I was considering 2x noctua nf-p14s before I saw your vid. Dammit! I noticed though the 12cm version has 2.83 pressure vs the 14cm 1.91. Would I need pressure in this situation? And have you compared those against the arctic p12?
You have a very unique situation. Basically, you need static pressure, not airflow, as there will be very little space to move air in that chassis, but air doesn't have to go very far (like fans will be right above the components). I'd go for bigger fans, and specifically the Arctic P14. Right now the white versions happen to be a very good deal: amzn.to/3aGiNfs Noctua fans aren't nearly as good. I've tested their high-end 140mm fans a number of times, including here: th-cam.com/video/cQ6W-b45wZ0/w-d-xo.html and here: th-cam.com/video/PUdsTiRmuuU/w-d-xo.html The P14S is even worse. I wouldn't even consider it.
Man, did I ever find this content 6 months later than would've been ideal, haha. Nonetheless, thanks so much for putting in the work to find and share this data. I am unhappy with the acoustics from my system when I reach my target thermals, and had been semi-seriously considering a $1000CAD custom water loop. I'm gonna try replacing my two front 140mms with three 120mms and adding another in the roof before i do anything too brash.
As a first-time builder, I found there was a huge lack of readily available objective data when it came to case fan configuration. Better late than never though. Thanks again, and best wishes with your channel.
You're welcome! A lot comes down to the cpu cooler you are using, and secondly the case fans. But yes, roof fans help when used to exhaust systems, part with regard to GPU temps.
@@TheTechBuyersGuru Oddly enough, I feel as though my cpu cooler is hardly the most intrusive component in my system currently. I AM just gaming on a stock 5600x with a hyper 212 black, so its fan speed rarely if ever goes above 60%. My issue is keeping the gpu bathed in enough cool air to keep the rpm on its fans reasonable. Even with a custom fan curve and significant undervolt, the noise can get a little rude sometimes. Keeping this in check requires my 2 front intake fans to run at a disappointingly thunderous speed relative to my expectations. There is so much anecdotal advice out in the wild that 140mm = lower rpm = lower noise but we now know that not to be necessarily true. The real kicker is those 2 140mm fans set me back basically the exact cost of the P12 value pack, haha. Live and learn I suppose. Thanks for the response. All the best.
140mm fans in front was what everyone simply said was best, but my tests showed differently. It has to do with directionality of the airflow. Move those 140mm fans to the top as exhaust and they'll be great. You want 3x120mm in front.
The comparison between 120mm and 140mm is not fair. They should have the same rpm. If you have 3 120mm running at 1900 rpm on the front panel, you should also have 2 140mm running at 1900 rpm, not 1600 rpm, on the front penal.
@@TheTechBuyersGuru A major reason why some people choose to buy 140 over 120 is because they don't really care about the noise. I live on a highway. My fridge, washing machine, and microwave are much more noisy than any computer anyway. For people like us, we only want to know the most cost effective way to cool the computer without creating an "unacceptable" level of noise. Something like Max (cooling effect/$) subject to budget is the best model. I was an economist, not an engineer.
@@TheTechBuyersGuru When we test things or compare things, we need to keep some variables constant. You kept the noise constant, in terms of dB, which is good. Alternatively, you can keep the cost constant or maximum rpm constant. If you have 1900 rpm for the 120mm fan, you should have 1900 rpm for the 1400 fan too. It is called ceteris paribus.
You can't keep dB constant and RPM constant, and keeping RPM constant is meaningless, as I've already stated, especially when the 140mm fans can't spin at 1900RPM! Trust me, I've been doing this a long time. db-normalized results are what matter, do not keep coming back to RPM, it's the wrong way of thinking.
Don't know for sure, but it's something many have asked about. I have an ARGB fan test coming up in a few months, but I don't think Scythe will be able to get me its new 120mm ARGB fans in time. They are having a lot of trouble with stocking, and I'm not interested in the older RGB fans.
I have noticed that when you have Multiple fans on the same PWM channel. You get harmonic resonance( sort of a rhythmic hum) from all the fans. However if you put each fan on its own PWM channel ( use a fan controller or individual headers on your motherboard) you don't get as much resonance even if the fans are all running at the same speed.
@@TheTechBuyersGuru arctics are actually known to have a hum at only certain rpms'. Turn them up a tiny bit past that point, it vanishes, turn them down past that point the hum also vanishes. ITs just at the like 85% point or so that they do that. Cant remember what channel exactly figured this one out ill have to go back and look. They were testing these against the Noctuas.
I'd like to address the off high pitched hum that comes from the P12 at 1000-1500 RPM. You can hear this in this video:th-cam.com/video/rb9Rt5G1ZlQ/w-d-xo.html Once the PWM value is in the range of 41-65 the pulsating resonance hum is noticeable, especially when in the specific resonance. They work very well as case fans at constant RPM. I'd just note the extra fan tuning, to avoid the humming RPM range, if they're being used on a Ryzen CPU cooler (which constantly spikes unless using RyzenMaster.) The same thing occurs with the P14 except lower frequencies.
I use Skiron fans instead of Arctic for this reason. Their sound profile is consistent as they ramp up in RPMs. Downside is that their lifespan isn't as long as Arctics.
this is true. i have two p14s. one in front, one as rear exhaust. the hum starts around 1000 rpm so i keep them at 950 rpm constant. definitely not buying arctic fans anymore.
@Kachongui Kach Just keep them running at constant. my hum now starts at 900 rpm but disappears between 1000-1100. a couple of weeks ago, it started at 1000. lol
My recommendations stand - these are excellent fans. The fact that I was able to find some configurations where P12s outperformed P14s doesn't diminish the products in any way. I believe that in much bigger cases, the P14s might be warranted.
@@LeoTelles Don't forget he was positioning the dB meter over the case and did say that you hear them the most , but if the case sit on the desk it could be a totally different story too.
@@TheTechBuyersGuru I bought 1x P14 and 3x P12 (a year ago), and only 2x P12 ended in my PC case, working perfectly, almost inaudible at 780RPM. The other ones went straight to electronic waste. Arctic quality control is abysmal. The price on them can be easily multiplied by 2. Half of them are expected to have fan screeching, motor vibration defects, or both. It's a pity that they seem to have so little competition. Noctua is expensive and its sound signature is a silent chainsaw.
I've checked out lots of fan placement articles and videos, and this is the best info out there. This is a complicated issue to cover and you did it well. Also, I got lucky and don't have any resonance noises, only a "whooshing" sound as intended, and after tweaking the fan curves over time I've got everything perfect noise-wise. I actually found this video after I figured everything out for my use case, and everything you say is accurate, but I will keep it bookmarked for future use. Liked and subscribed.
@@TheTechBuyersGuruimagine if you tested side panel mounting, apparently that makes a huge difference, but apparently we stopped doing that in consumer cases.
Just wanted to say again. Thank you for the awesome review and going to the extra mile to test these fans. Greatly appreciated as always.. By the way Happy New Year!
This is a video I've been promising since the summer, so I worked overtime to get it in before the end of the year. It was a ton of work, but I learned a lot, and it sounds like you probably did too! Catch you in 2021!
This is an amazingly well-done video. It answered basically every question I had about fan setup and many others I'd never even considered. You get a like and subscribe -- thank you!
As much as I'd love to compliment your thorough tests, you missed an important detail in every single one, positive, negative and neutral pressure. This is an important detail in planning each fan setup but I noticed all you did was adding more fans. You could have also tried more setups that mixed both sizes like 2 140 intakes and 1 120 exhaust for positive pressure.
It's a good idea to flatten your fan curves in the normal operating range your workloads are going to see, that way you don't get this annoying noise of the fans ramping up and down in speed quickly and often.
Just a minor tip for those that are running a BQDX500 case or similar with 3 120mm fan in the front intake, take out all the unused pci/pcie tabs below the graphics card, this will improve the GPU temps a fair bit, I can feel the airflow coming out at the back at medium to high RPM. Plus, with the air being sucked in through the filter at the front, dust won't be an issue.
Wondering what your opinion is on the Arctic F series for airflow? I've seen other channels review both and claim that the F series (F12, F14) are better suited for situations where there is minimal impedance. I have an F12 and even though it runs at a lower RPM vs the P12, I can feel more air when I point it towards me. P12 seems better suited for radiators, heatsinks and cases where there is a lot of air restriction
Maybe this will be the vid that puts me over the top! I'm glad you like it, and I'm pretty proud of how much work (and thought) I put into this. I wanted it to go beyond what's been done before.
Very helpful for my first build since I actually grabbed the 5 pack of the arctic 140's for the price to performance value. One caveat, I went with the Phanteks p500a non-rgb case so there is actually room for me to put three 140's in the front and get that airflow beneath the gpu. I have an arctic liquid freezer II 360 AIO as well so I'm excited to see how removing the air cooler from the flow path affects temperatures. Gonna set them up in a 3 front, 1 back plus AIO top exhaust configuration to see how it goes. And I'm praying the increased case size doesn't bite me with the longer distance to the components like you mentioned 😟 I'll post results when the parts get here.
@@maozedowner5915 So as it turns out, I'm an idiot with almost no idea what I'm doing. And the results show this. My cpu is an i9-12900kf running at 4.9Ghz. Cinebench r20 was too hard to find, so I went with r23. After a 5 minute loop, I got a max temp one one core of 87° and an average max temp of about 79.5° on Core Temp 1.17.1(that incredibly high temp told me I might be doing it wrong) For the GPU(3080 FTW3 ULTRA) I ran the time spy test while following it with task manager and although my gpu load hit max, the temp never went above 53°(this confirmed I was doing it wrong.) It's disappointing, but I don't think my findings will be of any help to anyone. Sorry.
I can't believe what a great and thorough test and analysis you did on this content. I think you answered any question anyone could possibly have about fan sizes, RPM, configuration, direction of flow (and various combinations). Most surprising to me was how detrimental having the top fans as rear exhaust, front intake, to cooling; I thought at worst it would be about the same as having no fan there, but that was completely wrong. This goes to show the importance of deliberate, scientific, testing before reaching conclusions. Thanks for this!
Awesome video! Tho I wonder if not being able to use 3x140MM fans in the front didn't skew most of the 140mm results due to not enough air intake causing the exhaust fans to "pull" air from wherever and raising the temps. Would be interesting to see if a bottom mounted fan(right under the gpu) like old cases used to have wouldn't improve GPU thermals by a bit.
I think there's a big opportunity here for case manufacturers to change their designs to allow for bottom-mounted fans. The PSU shroud has improved the look of PCs, but not necessarily the performance. My biggest wish is that more manufacturers start rotating their PSU placement like the unusual Cooler Master SL600M - amzn.to/3n0f8fj It puts the PSU in the front and allows unobstructed bottom-to-top airflow. This is perfect for GPUs, although for CPUs it may require liquid cooling for optimal performance.
When i had my fx8300 system i ran 2 120s front and 2 top 120s, all as intake with the only exhaust at the rear, as well as a gpu with a blower cooler and my psu "uspide down" for more exhaust potential. Was great setup for cpu, vrm and oc'ing - basically the only thing that system was good for. I really love your fan content. I thought 4 140s would take it over the 6 120s because of the lower speed. Good stuff as always.
If you look closely at the dBA-normalized 3DMark graph for the extreme setups, you'll see that the 4x140s were excellent for CPU temps, but not quite as good for GPU temps. I suspect that if I had lowered the bottom fan below the level of the PSU shroud, the temps would have (counter-intuitively) been better for the GPU.
Here is a thought! If the GPU Likes the fresh air and there is room like that case to put an Exhaust mini fan so it can pull th air across the GPU and out the back???
I leaned something about case design. I normally run around 36 C according to HWMonitor. I pulled the front of my pc off to discover a huge hole on top of the one fan that the case uses in the front. (hole was there to add a fan) I reasoned this cannot be good so I sealed up the hole and got 2 degrees cooler consistently now that the one fan isn't pulling hot air from inside the case. I thought o.k. I can do better than this. I had an old fan I pulled out of an old pc installed it even though it was a smaller fan, sealed up the edges again and now I'm getting a consistent 32 C at idle instead of 36 C. Moral of this story, always seal up any holes your front fan may use to pull warm air inside the case from and add more air intake if you can.
Yeah, hopefully this video will pick up a nice amount of views, because similar videos from big TH-camrs scored like half a million, and I definitely took the testing a step further!
As for one fan... well, I'd buy another, LOL! But honestly, depends if I cared about CPU and GPU thermals. I'd put it right below the GPU in the front of the case if the GPU was my priority, and I'd use it as an exhaust in the rear if the CPU was my priority. But then again, I haven't tested this.... and probably never will!
Like I said in the comment section of the previous video another thing to consider is having static pressure optimized fans as intake and air flow optimized fans as exhaust.
That is an interesting concept. Perhaps something for me (or someone else) to test in the future! My hunch is that airflow fans are never as effective as people might imagine, because there are very few applications in a case that have low resistance. Exhausts are actually fairly high resistance due to the grilles they must push through.
kinda curious sir, if the front of the case is a grille with magnetic dust filter, which type of fan should you use? air flow fan or static pressure fan?
When thinking about multiple fan setups in a case, it's useful to think more in terms of pressure than airflow. An intake fan generates a high-pressure zone, while an exhaust fan generates a low-pressure zone. Air always moves from high-pressure areas to low-pressure areas.
That is a very good point. But air doesn't always move from high pressure to low pressure, it has to have a pathway to do so. So putting a high pressure fan in the wrong place means low airflow, and hence poor cooling efficiency.
I'm using three P14 and two P8 Arctics in a 4U rack for my PC with a U9S. Also deshrouded my GPU and added two F12 and also changed the PSU fan to an F12 that was laying around from my old case. I'm very happy with it.
It comes down to what big fans actually accomplish. Do they move more air at the same noise level? Yes. Does that air reach components that need to be cooled better than air from 120mm fans? Not necessarily, and in some situations, definitely no.
Amazing in-depth analysis! I'm currently playing with a setup for Meshify 2 Compact which supports F: 3x120/2x140, R: 1x120, T:2x120/2x140. Based on your results I'd go with 6 fans setup but I'm not sure what size would be better for the top fans. Would you go with 120- or 140-mm fans? I'm using Scythe Kaze Flex with separate PWM control for intake and exhaust fans to optimise case pressure.
Tons of work going into these videos amazing stuff and interesting info to have as a case building enthusiast. Everyone is a critic until they have to do the work, so don't let the negativity drown out your work!
Thanks for a very interesting 🤔 review video. I usually have a 2 intake fans and exhaust fans 1 rear and 1 top (all 140mm fans) for my tax builds. However, now I’m using mini ITX setups, a dual intake and 1 or 2 exhaust (120mm setup fans) setup I find worlds better in these. Love the video. Keep up the great work 🎄🎄🥳🥳🥰🤯.
My build is pure base 500dx . On front i have z73 nzxt water cool. On Top 2 fans 140mm as exhaust and rear fan 140mm as exhaust. I am waiting now for noctua's new generation fans to change my aio fans and one of the top fan Thank you so much for the review . Very informative. 🙏 .
Really appreciate this but I'm really missing 1 or 2 fans in the bottom as intake, both cases with a shroud and especially without as you can feed cool air straight to the gpu, though having an extra fan directly below and infront of the 2/3 intake fans could be negative I think.
bloody fantastic video mate. been planning my fan setup for a week now, and this video just solidified everything i was planning on doing. thankyou sir
Thanks for this awesome video! I have the same Pure Base 500DX case with a front-mounted 240mm AIO Radiator. What fan combo would you recommend if I have the Arctic P12 5-pack and the stock Pure Wings 140mm fans? Would 3X Arctic P12 in the front, 2X Arctic P12 on top, 1X Pure Wings 140mm in the Rear be best?
I had the same result with my single 140mm intake fan: the lowest position is most beneficial to the GPU. My case doesn't have any grate above the PSU and as I was thinking about the turbulence occurring when the air hits the back of the PSU, I placed a makeshift curved ramp out of cardboard leading up from the bottom of the case to the level of the PSU. That shaved off another 1.5°C of the GPU temps. By the way, my rear fan is an intake (at 300 rpm) and I only have one exhaust fan in the top; CPU air flow is reversed. That was the optimal solution for a CPU tower cooler (at moderate rpm) and an open "blow through" GPU (Sapphire Pulse RX Vega56). Otherwise the CPU cooler was sucking in that hot air from the GPU.
I hope i can get a useful response. I am currently running an O11D XL with bottom and side intake (6x120mm) top exhaust (push pull Radiator 6x120mm) and 1x exhaust back 1x120mm. Now my fans are iCue LL120s and a while ago some of the LEDs have burned out. Its past warranty and i know its a manufacturing issue. So i was thinking of doing a new setup, originally i wanted Lian Li Uni Fans. So now the option presents itself to build in the Lian Li O11D Evo XL, which supports 9 140mm fans and 2 120mm fans. So i could even do push pull radiator top with 6 140s and generally just do the exact same setup, just replacing all fans with 140s and adding another 120 exhaust in the back. I am now unsure though if i would gain any temperature reduction/benefits at all through this setup.
Thanks for the video. I'm curious on your take on this: My case (fractal north) comes with two 140s. My cooler (ls520se) comes with two 120s. I wanted two top and one rear exhaust with a specific ring led so I got a triple pack of light wings 120s. The question is: do I keep the front two 140s, or use the cooler 120s in the front and purchase a third 120 as front intake, making it 6x120. Or would 2x 140 intake + 3x 120 exhaust be just as good? Thanks! Playing mostly games with a 4070ti super.
Thank you for this awesome video! I have exactly the same case (black version) and fans (arctic value pack, 140mm), and I was lost with all the possibilities. You answered my questions, keep up the good job.
@@TheTechBuyersGuru Yes you tested even something I was willing to try (top intake). Now I have a question, how were you able to install the 140 tops fans? The cpu power cable gets in the way, was it the same for you? I tried to push a little but was too afraid to damage it.
I bought 3x Arctic F14 BioniX for the front panel, they start resonating in my case between 680-950 RPM. The humming is driving me nuts. So i've forced them to work at 645, sadly I don't dare making fan curve due to the nasty resonance.
This needs more attention. Searching for an hour and lots of videos with nothing but opinions. Thank you for doing REAL testing and covering ALL the orientations. Great work
HUUUUUGGE respect for this. Can't even imagine the time you must've invested for this video. Thanks a lot for the graphs and the thorough testing. Subscriber for life.
Thanks for posting this feedback, it means a lot to me. A lot people have enjoyed this video, and that's great, but most people probably don't realize what it took to put it together. It was a lot of work not just to do the actual benchmarking, but also to do the preparation and planning, including polling my viewers, in order to make sure the results would be meaningful. Going through all of this and getting useless results would have been a major disappointment. Well, I guess it's up to my viewers to decide if it was useful or useless, but it sounds like you at least appreciated it!
Ok. Good to see the 120mm x 5 or 6 performing well as my new setup will resemble that. The latter proving a second top exhaust doesn’t interfere with front inflow. Appreciate the time you spent here 👍🏼.
Yeah, that second top exhaust fan is something a lot of people thought would cause problems, but the tests prove otherwise.
Well, that 140mm performance was disappointing. I did not expect those results.
I thought the bigger the fan the better from a noise normalized perspective. Boy I was wrong!
I guess I will just buy more P12 fans haha.
Great video as always sir. Thank you for taking the time to experiment with so many configurations!
I was a bit disappointed too, but it doesn't mean they are bad fans. In the 3- and 4-fan configurations, they were actually better than the 120s. But putting 5 in the case just added a bit too much turbulence, which increased noise and may have disrupted airflow out of the chassis.
This is the most thorough video i have ever seen about fans placements. I have that Arctic P12 PWM PST 5-Pack, very happy about it.
Glad you enjoyed this video. It took about 2 weeks to produce. That's why you won't see it many other places.
After seeing that you got better GPU cooling with one front fan vs. two, I tried this out and got some different results.
I got 2 degree lower GPU temps with 2 front and 1 rear fan than with 1 front and 1 rear fan, where you got two degree higher temps with the two front fans. All fan speeds were locked for this testing,
I think the problem with your 2 front fan test here is that you've put the second fan in the top position, rather than the bottom one. In my testing, two fans in the middle and bottom positions improve cooling for both the GPU and CPU vs just one fan.
Excellent work! I’ve worked with dozens of cases and even more fans over the years. I did carry out my own measurements of temp, noise and vibration and despite occasional variations I can only concur with you.
Your conclusions are spot on. Well done !
Thanks for sharing!
Hi friend, thanks for the precious time you spent, I have the same case and both Arctic P12 PWM and Noctua NF-A 12x25 PWM, it is clear that every computer, case and fan will make a difference, every case is unique, I have put 3 Arctic P12 in front (away from the filter) and 3 Noctua NF-A 12x25 1 rear and 2 top, the noise is almost absent at low speed but if I increase the Noctua are heard, previously I put Noctua in front (near to the filter) and Arctic rear and top, the noise is also absent in this case at low speed, but if I increase, the Noctua are heard! then I did another test with the Noctua (away from the filter) and I get an annoying resonance noise from the bearing, it is really difficult to find the right compromise between performance and noise but I want to say that the Noctua even if they are noisier, they blow more air than the Arctic and the temperatures drop by 2/3 degrees, the Arctic P12 are nice and very quiet but do not blow much air, certainly the biggest problems occur in summer and with these hot temperatures, if the room is not air-conditioned you have to increase the speed and bear the noise, this is the only solution with any computer, case, fan etc ... if the room is air conditioned then you can also run all the fans at 1000 rpm in idle and get a nice fresh computer!
Thank you for this video. I have a BQ PB500 case with mixed old fans from BQ (120, 140 / silent, dark, pure, similar positioning) Now I've purchased 6 of the arctic p12 and set it up the same way...immediately 10-15 degree lower temps on my idle GPU (no fans running) on 20% case fan rpm, nice! Thank you very, very much!
Arctic fans are solid budget fans, and the 5-pack is a wonderful value.
As an alternative, I recommend MetallicGear Skiron fans, whenever you can find them for a good budget price. They're made by Phantek. These fans are a slightly better 9-blade design for airflow compared to Arctics, but more importantly, the Skirons are close to the cheapest case fans you can which include rubber mounts to reduce vibration noise. Decent quality rifle-bearings, slightly improved on the ball-bearings in Arctic fans. Arctics have a cooler motor, however, which increases their lifespan over the Skirons.
I really like in depth comparisons with case fans. I've watched previous videos and you really cover the issues that bug a person like myself who cannot stand noise issues caused by case fans. I've experience harmonic resonance issues with noctua that are not going to show up on a "decibel meter", but I would rather have high decibels than to hear that awful sound. I don't know how anyone can work next to a machine noises like that all day. The cons of having good hearing I guess. You also make a great point to control the RPMs of the fans to get the right amount of airflow where your specific case isn't making groaning noises.
Glad I could provide some useful insights! Fan performance is incredibly complex, which might be why you don't see many other TH-camrs trying to tackle it! I definitely can't cover it all, but I try to give people something to think about beyond specs on a website, which is how most people have bought fans for decades.
I'm two minutes, and 55 seconds in; you haven't done any testing yet, and I'm already loving it.
EDIT: I just finished watching the video, that had to have been one of the quickest 15 minutes of my life.
The Premises that you've just opened up are all highly interesting, and don't get me started on the delivery, PERFECT!
....For me, at least. I'm sure the majority of other users that don't think to look at this sort of content would probably prefer to be told "What's better, 120mm or the 140mm fans?" followed up by "Which is the optimal placement". They'll have a fit right in front of you if you dare use the word "variables" in a sentences to them.
I was seven words into your comment, and I got worried, but then I finished reading and I loved it!
Thanks for watching the whole thing, and I'm glad to hear it didn't drag on for you despite all the data! I do heavily edit my videos to cut out the chatter (stuff that seems interesting as it comes out of my mouth but isn't once I listen to it!).
Truth be told, I fully expected different results, even testing the setup that I thought was "right" at the end so I could keep it running in my system only to find that it was terrible (that was with the top fan flipped).
I do hope that this video opens up a new dialog on PC cooling, because I don't think some of these issues have been fully examined thus far. Of course, I left about a million variables on the table for others to play with, so it's not like this conversation is over, it's only just begun!
I should apologise for the way I structured my first message in the beginning, I guess you could say that's a bad habit.
@@TheTechBuyersGuru This message is a bit lengthy, I get carried away in writing/research sometimes and then realise what time it is and how long I've invested towards sharing a suggestion.
From my perspective, your last video has opened up a whole new ballgame in regards to testing, the problem is, there's no way we could expect you to cover each new door. I went through the latest comments on this video, which you've done a stellar job at responding too. It seems some people would still like you to take their suggestions into account with testing, but with your level of detail, their requests are much larger than they realise.
Perhaps in the next video, you could consider leaning in a different direction, allowing you to still follow-up on this content by keeping the users engaged and not putting an unrealistic workload on your shoulders. I had two thoughts in mind:
Directly asking your fanbase to experiment using a set of specific parameters. You could document three-five different types of experiments you'd like to see numbers in, then assign two volunteers to each experiment(if available). I'd imagine that some of these tests would help the users construct questions or statements that may make it easier for you to strategically invest your time. Their results would not be conclusive in any way; it would just help lead you towards something in which you deem interesting or valuable.
The second was sending out emails to individuals who handle airflow/circulation at a professional level, something like a structural engineer working in the airflow department. Briefly explain your position. You're trying to give individuals insight to maintain their hardware safely whilst also educating users enough to indirectly lower sales towards poorly engineered cases and fans. The last statement changes depending on who you're contacting; it's supposed to be a reason that relates to their values/morals/ethics. Ask if they have time for a couple of questions if so, show them a diagram of what you thought would work, and why; then followed up with what seemed to have worked. If they're hesitant in helping, you can mention that whichever professional adequately supports will be mentioned in that video with a thank you, as well as their business subtly brought up. E.g. I want to thank John for yada yada who's currently working as an Air Conditioner manufacturer for X company."
There are also some interesting ways of measuring airflow from some brief Google search pages, perhaps if you were to use a tool to take a few measurements in your worst and best case-fan setups, you might be able to find similarities which turn out to be consistent with future tests.
killer Vid. Linus Tech Tips made a similar one but didn't discuss the ins and outs of exhaust vs intake fans in the top, or the interplay between 120mm and 140mm fan types. I bought a case that unfortunately didn't allow for top mounting of a AIO pump bc of space limitations (it bumps against the mobo / ram) so this vid is a rescue of sorts. Thanks for helping me rethink my cooling design!!
Glad to help - I put a lot of planning into this video to try to make it as useful as possible, although there's always more to explore!
Amazing analysis my guy. I really do appreciate all your tedious testing and hard work for a very informative video. I was looking forward to this video and you did not disappoint. Thanks again my guy and keep up the great content.
I hope it's not tedious to watch, LOL! Luckily, it was only a bit tedious to test!
What a fantastic channel! Really enjoying your videos and look forward to seeing you become the next LTT
Thanks so much!
Almost flipped my front top fan! Thankyou very much for this!
You're welcome! This was something a lot of people asked me about, and I'd never seen tested before, so I did it!
@@TheTechBuyersGuru thank you for the best video you made. So do not make top fan as intake,right?
just order Arctic p12 & P14 for my Lian li Lancooler mesh 2, excited! :)
I have the Mesh 2 Performance. Got the 5-pack of Arctic 120s and 140s. Replaced back fan and CPU air cooler fan with the 120s. Daisy chained 3 140s at the front (can be done, the middle one is stacked behind the bracket and the top and bottom in front of it. I think I had to turn the bracket around, which is an intended config). Set at Auto it runs very very cool regardless and is silent.It's win-win all the way.
@@ElsinoreRacer What were your temps before you changed fans? I have the RGB version with 3 120's in front, 2 under gpu and one exhaust.
@@ElsinoreRacer Have you noticed any resonance issues? I have the p12s installed in the exact same case and noticed a bunch of resonance issues across almost the entire rpm range. This has made leaving them on auto nearly impossible since the low noise levels are ruined by the high pitched sound of the resonant frequencies when the fans ramp up and down.
Really Great job on this video 👏👏. Here is a fan weird set up that I though that might just work:
- Back: 120 fan Intake
- Top (above ram): 120 fan exhaust
- Front Panel:
# Bottom Slot: 120 fan @ 1500rpm min
# Middle Slot: Empty
# Top Slot: 120 fan exhaust
- Finally place 1x 120mm fan on the PSU shroud below the GPU to direct air from the Front bottom fan , straight to the GPU.
This set up uses 5 fans that can be bought from the value pack, provide airflow on the vrms closest to the Scythe fuma and provide cooler air in a more direct way to the GPU !
Hope you like my idea I really enjoy your content! Sometimes I just sip my coffee watching you build PCs!
This is indeed a really interesting idea, and I think adding that bottom fan is a great idea. You'd just have to make sure to flip the fans on the Fuma 2 to make that reverse airflow work, and I'm not sure they'd be quite as effective in a pull arrangement as they are in push.
@@TheTechBuyersGuru If the fans are reversed, they would be on a push configuration, pushing fresh air from the back and pulling it in the case , where it is immediately exhaust by the Top fan, am I right ?
Push and pull refers to the orientation of the fan on the heatsink (or radiator) fins. So if you have reversed the airflow in your case to go from back to front, then you need to flip the fans on the Fuma 2. This makes them "pull" fans, as they are pulling air through the fins, not pushing it. Fans are typically a bit less effective in this orientation.
@@TheTechBuyersGuru Oh alright, I get it now ! Thanks for the explanation!
Theoretically tho, both push and pull configurations should level out , as RPM increases right ?
They are close, but they are not the same.
Just ordered a box of P14s last week, 5 for the half the price of one Noctua 12x25... just to test them. At 600-700rpm they are super silent and have a very pleasant sound, while moving relatively large amounts of air, certainly enough to keep everything cool.
Between 700-1100, they create some slightly annoying turbulent sound, which stops at 1200rpm... here they have a louder, but pleasant sound again. Therefore, I recommend them for either silent or maximum performance builds.
Still waiting for Toughfan availability in Europe... only the 140mm version is available and I am not sure about those yet.
Finally a video that actually helped me with real world direct comparisons using the same fans instead of widely different fans. Therefore the test is actually meaningful. I am going to change mine to the 3 front 1 rear 1 top and see if it helps my temps. They are not horrible but my idle temps are a little high (3900X and 2080 Super, CPU Idling at like 40-50 and GPU around 60 - which is probably acceptable anyway..but still want to have the best setup)
These fans are super cheap are they really that good? Most people are going to recommend some $30 ea fans (Noctua etc) so am concerned about buying cheap fans?
Most people haven't watched my videos, so they don't know anything about what they are recommending! Are Arctic's good? See this video: th-cam.com/video/PUdsTiRmuuU/w-d-xo.html
If you decide to get them, here's the link to the 5-pack: amzn.to/3APDGQ5
By the way, your high idle temps are not a reason to buy any case fans at all. Idle temps are driven entirely by the fans on the coolers and the settings you are using. I recommending using a manual fan profile on your 2080 Super so that it's NEVER at zero RPM. While that's a popular fad, it's not actually very good for anything, including maintaining idle temps, because any modern GPU will slowly climb up in temps until it requires the fans to toggle on and off, which is more annoying than leaving them on.
In terms of your 3900X, idle temps are always going to be that high due to background tasks and the density of the chip. It's the CPU I bench with. To learn how it idles with high-end 360mm liquid coolers, see this video: th-cam.com/video/GLaje-5JFd4/w-d-xo.html
Just found your channel and it's soo underated!
Just got the Arctic P14.
Thank you! Enjoy the P14!
I've been runnning 6 P14 PWMs on my case in the setup you had in the 120mm video ( my case is P600s ), pretty sure it's the best setup with these specific fans. I've also seen some turbulence at around 70-75% fan speed.
Wow I got the very same result!
I own the P600s (best case ever) and had the P12s in it first.
After changing to the P14s the entire system got even quieter than before. I mean not noticeable quiet!
The odd harmonic resonance you describe is easily explained. Bear with me here. Multi engine aircraft with propellers will have a throttle power setting, obviously, but also a prop speed which can be controlled by individually controlling the feather or pitch of each propeller independently. During cruise flight the pilots are able to engage a "prop sync" button on some aircraft which will automatically feather and change the pitch of each propeller slightly to spin at the exact same speed as the other for a given power setting. If they don't, they will experience an annoying harmonic vibration or resonance. If you have three intake fans, chances are they are spinning at slightly different speeds, thus creating the annoying harmonic vibration. Note to Motherboard manufacturers: add a "fan speed syc" feature to your BIOS. Problem solved. This is assuming each fan has a direct connection to the motherboard. If they are daisy chained to the same header, you are SOL.
Thanks for doing all of this work.
Thanks so much! This is a fantastic video - I'm about to build in a 500DX and have an Arctic AIO so I'm going to play around with P14s!
Which Arctic do you have, and how do you have it mounted in the 500DX? I'm curious about which combos will actually fit so I can tell others, specifically if the 240mm fits on top, for example. I know the 280 won't, but other 280mm AIOs can, as shown here! - th-cam.com/video/uUUItnZRHyM/w-d-xo.html
@@TheTechBuyersGuru I have the 280, I'm planning on front mounting and since I got the five pack of fans I'm going to see if I can pull off a push-pull configuration for the AIO, but I'm waiting on my GPU to ship. Will report back when I do get my GPU so I can pull off my build!
That could be pretty tight, but mostly because the tubes will be hard to route if mounted down (which is how the interwebz wants you to do it nowadays thanks to a GN video). The hose outlets will be below the shroud, and I think they may not bend around the inside-mounted fans to get to the CPU.
@@TheTechBuyersGuru aaah, I didn't think of that. Well, worst case I'll have two extra fans lying around in the case of any failures.
@@TheTechBuyersGuru Following up on this - I ended up just going for the standard front mount for the Arctic, without push/pull, and outfitted the whole case with P14s. Your video on the 140mm fan shootout helped a ton! My build is here: imgur.com/a/GM0ryus
I will put 3x P12 front , 2x P14 top and 1x P14 Rear on my Corsair Carbide Air 540!
top as exhaust?,right?
Interesting you mentioned the noise you said you hear within a certain rpm range on the p12's, it's the only thing I don't like about them. Might have to grab a pack of the p14's to see if I can run them at a slightly lower rpm and not get that strange noise
Generally speaking, I haven't had this issue as much with the P14. It's a resonance of the blades due vibrations in the plastic itself - the blades are very long and can start vibrating unlike in other fans. The P14 is heavier and has thicker plastic I believe, and therefore isn't as susceptible to it.
Three fans in front and then 3 fans up top drawing out is useless, as they pull too much air away from the front and straight up and out the top. Put a fan on the bottom throwing fresh air into the GPU card. If you have solid case, cut it out and throw some screen on it, giving you access to bottom case and fresh air going up. Oh great video, great work. Thumbs up and subd.
Did you do something similar with 200mm fans? Possibly mix different sizes. 2x200mm front is becoming more popular.
I didn't test 2x200mm, but there is a catch with these fans. They don't provide a lot of static pressure, and typically spin at very low RPMs. They are good for "case" cooling, not so good for specific component cooling. They move a lot of air, but not in a specific direction and often not in an area where components sit.
I've watched lots of videos, especially your round ups, but unfortunately didn't come across this one. I was gonna buy exactly this case in the future and prepared by buying 3x the P14 PWM for 10 EUR each. I thought they would be PERFECT for a silent Airflow based PC using the 500DX, but right now they're inside my Fractal define R3 and create different kinds of annoying noises, when they are attached to the case, especially as intakes. So I run them at 300 RPM. Minimal airflow. Even then they sound bad. Neither my 10 year old 120mm stock fan, nor the 10 year old 135mm fan I took out of an old be quiet PSU have this problem. Do you think the new case one day would solve this issue?
Really helpful, thanks
Thanks a lot bro awesome video...
Hey, thanks again for linking me to this video from your fan comparison video! I found it very informative and it answered many of my questions and you have taught me alot! I can only imagine how much time you spent painstakingly putting the test together and then creating the video, so thank you!
I mentioned in the other video that I have a Lian Li lan 2 mesh performance case. It has 8 slots where I can fit 120mm fans: three on the front, two ontop, one on the back and two on the Psu shroud what are your thoughts on if I use every slot - do you see it as beneficial or counter-productive? I noticed you mentioned noise is an issue with exhaust fans on the top. I saw you recommended the 6x 120 to me in the other video.
To clarify that I have this right: rear and top are exhaust, front are intake and psu shroud are intake?
I don't think using every fan slot is all that helpful. You start to add more noise than airflow. That's particularly true for fans on top, which direct noise right out of the case. I'd stick with a single fan up there. I also think having two fans on the PSU shroud is totally counterproductive, because one will be almost entirely blocked by the PSU itself. So based on the layout of the case, yes, 6x120mm: 3 in front, 1 in rear, 1 on shroud, 1 on top. For that case, two 3-packs of Arctic P12 ARGB fans would be superb: amzn.to/3hYoWWw
@@TheTechBuyersGuru thank you for your patience and time and clarifying this for me. 👍
I ordered 10 p12 for my watercoolling
That will get the job done!
Could you test the same things but when using an AIO CPU cooler instead of an air cooler? I would assume that there will be differences in results. I personally have a 2x120 Arctic AIO cooler in the front of the case, towards bottom, as intake. But having issues with properly cooling down my RTX 3080 and the NVME SSD placed directly above it. I have an option to have a side fan in the GPU area, as well as 3 fans at the top and 1 at the back. Also an option for one on the bottom (floor) front. I would like to see thermal results from various placement combinations.
wish there could have been a more "level" testing, as in 3x120mm front vs 3x140mm front.
This case doesn't fit 3x140mm in front, so that wasn't going to happen. But there was a lot of other comp testing throughout the video, in fact I compared every other setup possible using 5x120mm or 5x140mm. So perhaps what you're actually saying is you wish I used a case that fit 3x140mm in front. Maybe someday I'll do it all over again... LOL!
They said big fans are more quite u sure u tested it right or used the right 12mm are louder
So I have a 3080 and I should get a case with 3x 140mm fans 2 on top and one near and then 3x 120mm front panel ??? Or am I wrong
Or have all 6 with 120mm fans
Your first option.
Hi, I'm planning to buy a case with 1 rear intake, 2 bottom intake, and 2 top exhaust. I'm thinking of doing this with 5 arctic P12s or 3 artic P12s as intake and 2 Kaze Flex 120 as exhausts. What do you think? The P12 5pcs value pack is priced at 25usd here at my country while Kaze Flex is priced at 11.21 USD per piece. Getting 5 Kaze Flex 120s are just expensive for me. What do you think will be the better setup? Thanks
i think you need to do this again with a case that actually! supports 140mm fans in the front (so not only mounting having points, but also having a bigger cut out so the 140mm arent just partially blocked like in this case).
maybe you start out by testing it only @noise normalized with 1 setup (e.g. all 120s vs all (possible) 140s?)
To mount both 120 and 140mm fans, those rails are necessary. If it disadvantages 140mm fans, that's a valid factor in the benchmarks, and it means 120mm have an advantage.
I do not plan on re-doing this test.
@@TheTechBuyersGuru maybe if you are getting another shot at a similar project you have a case laying around that has less restrictive 140mm mounting :)
good content in general btw.
I have a Cooler Master TD500 Mesh case with the included 3 x 120 mm fans at front, 3 x Cooler Master Sickle Flow 120 fans at top exhausting, 2 Cooler Master Sickle Flow 120 fans as CPU fans Pull/Push, and 1 x Cooler Master Sickle Flow 120 at the rear exhaust. I noticed that I am getting hot air coming from the rear, and hot air coming from the top fan closest to the rear. The other 2 top fans are blowing out really cold air out of my case. Do you think that they might be stealing the cool air from the front of the case, not allowing it to reach the back? My idle temps are around 42 to 45 AMD Ryzen 3600, and an MSI RX570 Gaming X graphics card. The max temp I got was 70 degrees CPU during Prime 95 testing after an hour.
Is the cold air blowing out of the TOP fans closer to the front, okay?
Nope. I tested this. It's not stealing cool air. You'll feel plenty of hot air coming out if you load up your GPU. That's where the benefit is.
@@TheTechBuyersGuru thanks dude :)
Nice video! I have the corsair crystal 280x case I recently bought some rgb fans which ended up being 120mm and I wanted to install 3 on the front but there's only enough mounting holes for two 120mm is there a bracket or something I could get to all 3 fans to be mounted?
No, but you can put a fan in the bottom blowing upwards and it will do a lot of good. Or mount on top if you don't already have one there.
@@TheTechBuyersGuru thanks for the info
Hello I hope you can see this.I have phanteks400a and i can fit 2x140mm/3x120mm on front. 2x140mm/2x 120mm n top and 1x120mm on rear. should i have msi prob660m-a ddr4, and gtx 3070. what fans should i get?😭
Hi there, thanks for the excellent review on these fans. I'm in the market for case fans and I've been wondering whether I should go for the Arctics "F12" series (Airflow Optimized) as an exhaust for my case or should simply go all "P12" (Pressure Optimized) as shown on your review. Does it really make any difference at cooling performance at the end of the day?
PS: My top exhaust, should blow against a dust filter, whereas my rear exhaust should blow against the standard chassi grill. Thanks
The F12 is an outdated design, and in my testing, the P12 has been better in all circumstances, whether that is in high-pressure applications or airflow applications. The specs are really meaningless. It is performance that matters, and the P12 is a better fan.
I just made a new PC and im buying more fans and need help to make a positive pressure.
So 3x120mm front intake, 2x140mm top exaust and 1x120mm rear exaust is this correct? @The Tech Buyer's Guru
How does the Scythe Kaza Flex compare to the Arctic P14 A-RGB?
Bought 2 Scythes that go up to 1800 rpm and paired them up with two P14s that have that harmonic resonance starting at 950-1000 rpm. Both scythes are very loud compared to the P14 even with harmonic resonance. they take off like a jet at around 900 rpm. maybe they are defective, but they are loud even at 1000 rpm and i havent noticed any temp improvements.
Thoughts on 3 front intakes, 1 bottom intake. 1 Top exhaust and rear exhaust?
I'm very interested in bottom intakes and considered using a case for this video that allowed that with an official mounting location. It ended up not making sense for this test, but I already have plans for a future video comparing standard setups to a setup with a bottom intake.
no bottom inlet fans????? on this case I would have thought they are the most important
For the Harmonic issue at certain RPMs, did you try installing the fans using rubber pins?
I tried my P12s and P14s and they didn't have the Harmonic dissonance, but I use rubber pins to mount fans
No, but this is a really interesting idea. Next time I chat with Arctic, I'm going to suggest they test this because I know they are very concerned about the issue. I'd test it but I'm on to the next topic, case and cooler reviews!
@@TheTechBuyersGuru we have actually tested it and that does not solve the issue. The problem is much more complicated than a simple resonance, we are making progress.
Vincent, so good to see you here! I imagined that it was not going to be a simple fix, but I hope that my input at least gave Arctic something to start with.
@@TheTechBuyersGuru your inputs definitely helped, though they did not help us to "start with" as we were already started for a while :)
Vincent - I'll follow up with you offline in the new year. Looking forward to hearing more, and testing the next wave of new products from Arctic!
hey what size would you recommend with 3 front fans on a P500A case.. 3x 120mm or 3x 140mm Arctic's P series
While 3x140 seems like the obvious answer, I'm increasingly convinced that for intake (not exhaust), directional, focused airflow counts more than overall airflow. The 140s produce more airflow, but potentially less down the center line where components actually sit, especially once noise normalized, which requires a lower RPM. If you are getting a 5-pack, then get 140s since you really want that in back and on top. If just buying 3, maybe 120s. I may eventually test this in a larger case than the 500DX used in the video. For now, I can only say 3x120 is better than 2x140.
How in the world does changing from 5 x 120mm fans to 5 x 140mm (@full rpm) ADD 4-5 celcius and 3db?! Adding tons more CFM (and therefore cooler air) should equal better temps? Only thing I can think of is they goofed up the 140mm version and they actually pull LESS cfm.
As soon as you think you know something about pc airflow you see something like this, so complicated.
Simple. Everyone has been focused on CFM when it has almost nothing to do with cooling performance. What matters is how much air reaches your components, and that means a tightly focused channel of higher speed air, e.g., from a 120mm fan.
@@TheTechBuyersGuru so a 12cm fan has a more powerful blast of air compared to a 14cm?
I always thought that it would equal out - yeah there's more cfm on a 14cm but over a larger area... that air has to be going somewhere though
Air is going somewhere, but not where you need it. Note this only applies to intakes, not exhausts.
@@TheTechBuyersGuru interesting, thanks for your work. Earned a sub!
Still at a loss as to how best to mod my case though 😂.
Basically I'm cutting out 3 holes in the lid of an HTPC case (fractal node 605) for 3 intake fans: 2 for gpu and one for cpu, then using the other slots (3x12cm, 2x8cm) for exhaust.
I have the gpu mounted horizontally with a riser cable, so the 2 holes will be directly above it.
The cpu fan will actually be mounted to cpu cooler, sitting out the top of the case a bit, as doing push pull.
I figure direct air in is optimal for cpu, but with the gpu (most important) fans will be sat about an inch or so above the gpu blowing into it. Maybe a more concentrated blast of air with a 12cm is better than 14cm?
I'm wondering if I should maybe even put a 12cm on the (14cm) cpu cooler: a noctua nh-c14s.
I was considering 2x noctua nf-p14s before I saw your vid. Dammit!
I noticed though the 12cm version has 2.83 pressure vs the 14cm 1.91. Would I need pressure in this situation? And have you compared those against the arctic p12?
You have a very unique situation. Basically, you need static pressure, not airflow, as there will be very little space to move air in that chassis, but air doesn't have to go very far (like fans will be right above the components). I'd go for bigger fans, and specifically the Arctic P14. Right now the white versions happen to be a very good deal: amzn.to/3aGiNfs
Noctua fans aren't nearly as good. I've tested their high-end 140mm fans a number of times, including here: th-cam.com/video/cQ6W-b45wZ0/w-d-xo.html
and here: th-cam.com/video/PUdsTiRmuuU/w-d-xo.html
The P14S is even worse. I wouldn't even consider it.
Man, did I ever find this content 6 months later than would've been ideal, haha. Nonetheless, thanks so much for putting in the work to find and share this data. I am unhappy with the acoustics from my system when I reach my target thermals, and had been semi-seriously considering a $1000CAD custom water loop. I'm gonna try replacing my two front 140mms with three 120mms and adding another in the roof before i do anything too brash.
As a first-time builder, I found there was a huge lack of readily available objective data when it came to case fan configuration. Better late than never though. Thanks again, and best wishes with your channel.
You're welcome! A lot comes down to the cpu cooler you are using, and secondly the case fans. But yes, roof fans help when used to exhaust systems, part with regard to GPU temps.
@@TheTechBuyersGuru
Oddly enough, I feel as though my cpu cooler is hardly the most intrusive component in my system currently. I AM just gaming on a stock 5600x with a hyper 212 black, so its fan speed rarely if ever goes above 60%. My issue is keeping the gpu bathed in enough cool air to keep the rpm on its fans reasonable. Even with a custom fan curve and significant undervolt, the noise can get a little rude sometimes.
Keeping this in check requires my 2 front intake fans to run at a disappointingly thunderous speed relative to my expectations. There is so much anecdotal advice out in the wild that 140mm = lower rpm = lower noise but we now know that not to be necessarily true. The real kicker is those 2 140mm fans set me back basically the exact cost of the P12 value pack, haha. Live and learn I suppose. Thanks for the response. All the best.
140mm fans in front was what everyone simply said was best, but my tests showed differently. It has to do with directionality of the airflow. Move those 140mm fans to the top as exhaust and they'll be great. You want 3x120mm in front.
The comparison between 120mm and 140mm is not fair. They should have the same rpm. If you have 3 120mm running at 1900 rpm on the front panel, you should also have 2 140mm running at 1900 rpm, not 1600 rpm, on the front penal.
Sorry, but this is incorrect. You do it by normalizing the decibel level. RPM matching is the wrong way to compare fans.
@@TheTechBuyersGuru A major reason why some people choose to buy 140 over 120 is because they don't really care about the noise. I live on a highway. My fridge, washing machine, and microwave are much more noisy than any computer anyway. For people like us, we only want to know the most cost effective way to cool the computer without creating an "unacceptable" level of noise. Something like Max (cooling effect/$) subject to budget is the best model. I was an economist, not an engineer.
I tested both fans at maximum RPM.
@@TheTechBuyersGuru When we test things or compare things, we need to keep some variables constant. You kept the noise constant, in terms of dB, which is good. Alternatively, you can keep the cost constant or maximum rpm constant. If you have 1900 rpm for the 120mm fan, you should have 1900 rpm for the 1400 fan too. It is called ceteris paribus.
You can't keep dB constant and RPM constant, and keeping RPM constant is meaningless, as I've already stated, especially when the 140mm fans can't spin at 1900RPM!
Trust me, I've been doing this a long time. db-normalized results are what matter, do not keep coming back to RPM, it's the wrong way of thinking.
Welp my suggestion turned out to produce disastress results, thanks for testing it anyway
I thought it was a fantastic idea, actually, and fully expected it to work great, so don't feel bad! I'm glad I got the chance to test it!
@@TheTechBuyersGuru Maybe in a bigger case it would give some decent results
What about the kaze rgb, are they comparable in performance to the non rgb version?
Don't know for sure, but it's something many have asked about. I have an ARGB fan test coming up in a few months, but I don't think Scythe will be able to get me its new 120mm ARGB fans in time. They are having a lot of trouble with stocking, and I'm not interested in the older RGB fans.
I have noticed that when you have Multiple fans on the same PWM channel. You get harmonic resonance( sort of a rhythmic hum) from all the fans. However if you put each fan on its own PWM channel ( use a fan controller or individual headers on your motherboard) you don't get as much resonance even if the fans are all running at the same speed.
Wow, maybe this was the issue! So many variables when you start really digging in! Thanks for the tip!
@@TheTechBuyersGuru arctics are actually known to have a hum at only certain rpms'. Turn them up a tiny bit past that point, it vanishes, turn them down past that point the hum also vanishes. ITs just at the like 85% point or so that they do that. Cant remember what channel exactly figured this one out ill have to go back and look. They were testing these against the Noctuas.
@@TheTechBuyersGuru I'm late, but Apple did make the fans on the big Mac Pro run at different speeds to avoid this noise
My Arctic F12s do that harmonic thing at very specific speeds as well!
“Harmonic resonance” sounds like something from half-life
This shouldn’t have dislikes..this guy goes over everything other reviewers skip and does it well
Yeah, I'm pretty sure no one else has tried testing this with as much detail as I did. Glad you appreciate it!
What's surprising in this video- the basic fan configuration of one front/one rear and two front/one rear works remarkably well.
I'd like to address the off high pitched hum that comes from the P12 at 1000-1500 RPM. You can hear this in this video:th-cam.com/video/rb9Rt5G1ZlQ/w-d-xo.html Once the PWM value is in the range of 41-65 the pulsating resonance hum is noticeable, especially when in the specific resonance. They work very well as case fans at constant RPM. I'd just note the extra fan tuning, to avoid the humming RPM range, if they're being used on a Ryzen CPU cooler (which constantly spikes unless using RyzenMaster.) The same thing occurs with the P14 except lower frequencies.
I have arctic freezer 34 esports duo as my cpu cooler,..the fans are p12 bionix, and they have the same hum resonant sounds,..very annoying btw
I use Skiron fans instead of Arctic for this reason. Their sound profile is consistent as they ramp up in RPMs. Downside is that their lifespan isn't as long as Arctics.
this is true. i have two p14s. one in front, one as rear exhaust. the hum starts around 1000 rpm so i keep them at 950 rpm constant. definitely not buying arctic fans anymore.
@Kachongui Kach I think its just the motor.
@Kachongui Kach Just keep them running at constant. my hum now starts at 900 rpm but disappears between 1000-1100. a couple of weeks ago, it started at 1000. lol
the moment of truth that we've all been waiting for!!!
the motherboard layout really wasnt made with big GPUs in mind. it messed with the airflow patterns since the 00`s, splitting the case in two.
Loving your reviews! The data you present is greatly appreciated and helps in guiding PC builders in search of quality performance components. Thanks!
Glad you like them, thanks for being a subscriber!
I’m running Arctic P12 and P14’s in my case based on your previous reviews. Overall been satisfied with the performance.
My recommendations stand - these are excellent fans. The fact that I was able to find some configurations where P12s outperformed P14s doesn't diminish the products in any way. I believe that in much bigger cases, the P14s might be warranted.
have you heard any harmonics from certain speeds? if anything i hear rubber mounts help isolate those vibrations
@@Aleph-Noll I was wondering this as well, seeing as the Arctic fans have no rubber mounts and just bolt straight to the chassis, this is a concern.
Did you find p12 quieter than p14 as he said?
@@LeoTelles Don't forget he was positioning the dB meter over the case and did say that you hear them the most , but if the case sit on the desk it could be a totally different story too.
Here's my prediction: Artic P14/P12 is the best value! Lol
Thanks for another great video!
Your odds of winning were 100%, so yes indeed, we have a winner! ;)
Kind of contradicts with scythe 120mm fan 😁
@@TheTechBuyersGuru 100%? Anyway I can get those odds in Vegas? Lol
@@ollieh2587 Hmm... good point, ok, the Artic will win in terms of best value! Nailed it.
@@TheTechBuyersGuru I bought 1x P14 and 3x P12 (a year ago), and only 2x P12 ended in my PC case, working perfectly, almost inaudible at 780RPM. The other ones went straight to electronic waste. Arctic quality control is abysmal. The price on them can be easily multiplied by 2. Half of them are expected to have fan screeching, motor vibration defects, or both. It's a pity that they seem to have so little competition. Noctua is expensive and its sound signature is a silent chainsaw.
I've checked out lots of fan placement articles and videos, and this is the best info out there. This is a complicated issue to cover and you did it well. Also, I got lucky and don't have any resonance noises, only a "whooshing" sound as intended, and after tweaking the fan curves over time I've got everything perfect noise-wise. I actually found this video after I figured everything out for my use case, and everything you say is accurate, but I will keep it bookmarked for future use. Liked and subscribed.
Glad you enjoyed it! Welcome!
@@TheTechBuyersGuruimagine if you tested side panel mounting, apparently that makes a huge difference, but apparently we stopped doing that in consumer cases.
Just wanted to say again. Thank you for the awesome review and going to the extra mile to test these fans. Greatly appreciated as always.. By the way Happy New Year!
This is a video I've been promising since the summer, so I worked overtime to get it in before the end of the year. It was a ton of work, but I learned a lot, and it sounds like you probably did too! Catch you in 2021!
@@TheTechBuyersGuru yup see you next year too. Best wishes to your family and friends too 👍
This is an amazingly well-done video. It answered basically every question I had about fan setup and many others I'd never even considered. You get a like and subscribe -- thank you!
Glad you enjoyed it - I did try to cover all the bases, including ones I hadn't seen asked (or answered) before!
As much as I'd love to compliment your thorough tests, you missed an important detail in every single one, positive, negative and neutral pressure. This is an important detail in planning each fan setup but I noticed all you did was adding more fans. You could have also tried more setups that mixed both sizes like 2 140 intakes and 1 120 exhaust for positive pressure.
It's a good idea to flatten your fan curves in the normal operating range your workloads are going to see, that way you don't get this annoying noise of the fans ramping up and down in speed quickly and often.
Just a minor tip for those that are running a BQDX500 case or similar with 3 120mm fan in the front intake, take out all the unused pci/pcie tabs below the graphics card, this will improve the GPU temps a fair bit, I can feel the airflow coming out at the back at medium to high RPM.
Plus, with the air being sucked in through the filter at the front, dust won't be an issue.
Put an aerofoil just beneath your GPU to direct air that was exiting out pci slots upwards.
I don't speak English, but I say: "This video is the best!"
I understood that, thanks!!!
Turbulence with many fans is also something I run into on my 5 fan case and different directions. It's a non constant sound.
Wondering what your opinion is on the Arctic F series for airflow? I've seen other channels review both and claim that the F series (F12, F14) are better suited for situations where there is minimal impedance. I have an F12 and even though it runs at a lower RPM vs the P12, I can feel more air when I point it towards me. P12 seems better suited for radiators, heatsinks and cases where there is a lot of air restriction
Great content as always. I can't believe you don't have more subscribers!!! I appreciate all your efforts TBG! Keep it up.
Maybe this will be the vid that puts me over the top! I'm glad you like it, and I'm pretty proud of how much work (and thought) I put into this. I wanted it to go beyond what's been done before.
Very helpful for my first build since I actually grabbed the 5 pack of the arctic 140's for the price to performance value.
One caveat, I went with the Phanteks p500a non-rgb case so there is actually room for me to put three 140's in the front and get that airflow beneath the gpu.
I have an arctic liquid freezer II 360 AIO as well so I'm excited to see how removing the air cooler from the flow path affects temperatures.
Gonna set them up in a 3 front, 1 back plus AIO top exhaust configuration to see how it goes. And I'm praying the increased case size doesn't bite me with the longer distance to the components like you mentioned 😟
I'll post results when the parts get here.
I'm waiting
@@maozedowner5915 So as it turns out, I'm an idiot with almost no idea what I'm doing. And the results show this.
My cpu is an i9-12900kf running at 4.9Ghz.
Cinebench r20 was too hard to find, so I went with r23. After a 5 minute loop, I got a max temp one one core of 87° and an average max temp of about 79.5° on Core Temp 1.17.1(that incredibly high temp told me I might be doing it wrong)
For the GPU(3080 FTW3 ULTRA) I ran the time spy test while following it with task manager and although my gpu load hit max, the temp never went above 53°(this confirmed I was doing it wrong.)
It's disappointing, but I don't think my findings will be of any help to anyone. Sorry.
@@htat1guy Yeah... no comparison point whatsoever, it's not gonna help.
I can't believe what a great and thorough test and analysis you did on this content. I think you answered any question anyone could possibly have about fan sizes, RPM, configuration, direction of flow (and various combinations). Most surprising to me was how detrimental having the top fans as rear exhaust, front intake, to cooling; I thought at worst it would be about the same as having no fan there, but that was completely wrong. This goes to show the importance of deliberate, scientific, testing before reaching conclusions.
Thanks for this!
Awesome video! Tho I wonder if not being able to use 3x140MM fans in the front didn't skew most of the 140mm results due to not enough air intake causing the exhaust fans to "pull" air from wherever and raising the temps. Would be interesting to see if a bottom mounted fan(right under the gpu) like old cases used to have wouldn't improve GPU thermals by a bit.
I think there's a big opportunity here for case manufacturers to change their designs to allow for bottom-mounted fans. The PSU shroud has improved the look of PCs, but not necessarily the performance. My biggest wish is that more manufacturers start rotating their PSU placement like the unusual Cooler Master SL600M - amzn.to/3n0f8fj
It puts the PSU in the front and allows unobstructed bottom-to-top airflow. This is perfect for GPUs, although for CPUs it may require liquid cooling for optimal performance.
When i had my fx8300 system i ran 2 120s front and 2 top 120s, all as intake with the only exhaust at the rear, as well as a gpu with a blower cooler and my psu "uspide down" for more exhaust potential. Was great setup for cpu, vrm and oc'ing - basically the only thing that system was good for.
I really love your fan content. I thought 4 140s would take it over the 6 120s because of the lower speed. Good stuff as always.
If you look closely at the dBA-normalized 3DMark graph for the extreme setups, you'll see that the 4x140s were excellent for CPU temps, but not quite as good for GPU temps. I suspect that if I had lowered the bottom fan below the level of the PSU shroud, the temps would have (counter-intuitively) been better for the GPU.
Here is a thought! If the GPU Likes the fresh air and there is room like that case to put an Exhaust mini fan so it can pull th air across the GPU and out the back???
I leaned something about case design. I normally run around 36 C according to HWMonitor. I pulled the front of my pc off to discover a huge hole on top of the one fan that the case uses in the front. (hole was there to add a fan) I reasoned this cannot be good so I sealed up the hole and got 2 degrees cooler consistently now that the one fan isn't pulling hot air from inside the case. I thought o.k. I can do better than this. I had an old fan I pulled out of an old pc installed it even though it was a smaller fan, sealed up the edges again and now I'm getting a consistent 32 C at idle instead of 36 C. Moral of this story, always seal up any holes your front fan may use to pull warm air inside the case from and add more air intake if you can.
Really great stuff Ari and thank you for your diligence! We need to get you more viewers. If you only had one fan, where would you put it?
Yeah, hopefully this video will pick up a nice amount of views, because similar videos from big TH-camrs scored like half a million, and I definitely took the testing a step further!
As for one fan... well, I'd buy another, LOL! But honestly, depends if I cared about CPU and GPU thermals. I'd put it right below the GPU in the front of the case if the GPU was my priority, and I'd use it as an exhaust in the rear if the CPU was my priority. But then again, I haven't tested this.... and probably never will!
Like I said in the comment section of the previous video another thing to consider is having static pressure optimized fans as intake and air flow optimized fans as exhaust.
That is an interesting concept. Perhaps something for me (or someone else) to test in the future! My hunch is that airflow fans are never as effective as people might imagine, because there are very few applications in a case that have low resistance. Exhausts are actually fairly high resistance due to the grilles they must push through.
kinda curious sir, if the front of the case is a grille with magnetic dust filter, which type of fan should you use? air flow fan or static pressure fan?
When thinking about multiple fan setups in a case, it's useful to think more in terms of pressure than airflow. An intake fan generates a high-pressure zone, while an exhaust fan generates a low-pressure zone. Air always moves from high-pressure areas to low-pressure areas.
That is a very good point. But air doesn't always move from high pressure to low pressure, it has to have a pathway to do so. So putting a high pressure fan in the wrong place means low airflow, and hence poor cooling efficiency.
I'm using three P14 and two P8 Arctics in a 4U rack for my PC with a U9S. Also deshrouded my GPU and added two F12 and also changed the PSU fan to an F12 that was laying around from my old case. I'm very happy with it.
Really shocked the 140s were louder. I thought the purpose of big fans were they could turn slower and produce less noise.
It comes down to what big fans actually accomplish. Do they move more air at the same noise level? Yes. Does that air reach components that need to be cooled better than air from 120mm fans? Not necessarily, and in some situations, definitely no.
Amazing in-depth analysis! I'm currently playing with a setup for Meshify 2 Compact which supports F: 3x120/2x140, R: 1x120, T:2x120/2x140. Based on your results I'd go with 6 fans setup but I'm not sure what size would be better for the top fans. Would you go with 120- or 140-mm fans? I'm using Scythe Kaze Flex with separate PWM control for intake and exhaust fans to optimise case pressure.
If go with 140mm for exhaust where airflow, not direction or focus, matter.
Tons of work going into these videos amazing stuff and interesting info to have as a case building enthusiast. Everyone is a critic until they have to do the work, so don't let the negativity drown out your work!
Thank you, I appreciate the supportive words. This was one of the most time-consuming videos I've ever made!
Thanks for a very interesting 🤔 review video. I usually have a 2 intake fans and exhaust fans 1 rear and 1 top (all 140mm fans) for my tax builds. However, now I’m using mini ITX setups, a dual intake and 1 or 2 exhaust (120mm setup fans) setup I find worlds better in these. Love the video. Keep up the great work 🎄🎄🥳🥳🥰🤯.
My build is pure base 500dx . On front i have z73 nzxt water cool.
On Top 2 fans 140mm as exhaust and rear fan 140mm as exhaust.
I am waiting now for noctua's new generation fans to change my aio fans and one of the top fan
Thank you so much for the review .
Very informative. 🙏
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Really appreciate this but I'm really missing 1 or 2 fans in the bottom as intake, both cases with a shroud and especially without as you can feed cool air straight to the gpu, though having an extra fan directly below and infront of the 2/3 intake fans could be negative I think.
bloody fantastic video mate. been planning my fan setup for a week now, and this video just solidified everything i was planning on doing. thankyou sir
Thanks and good luck with your project!
Thanks for this awesome video! I have the same Pure Base 500DX case with a front-mounted 240mm AIO Radiator. What fan combo would you recommend if I have the Arctic P12 5-pack and the stock Pure Wings 140mm fans?
Would 3X Arctic P12 in the front, 2X Arctic P12 on top, 1X Pure Wings 140mm in the Rear be best?
I had the same result with my single 140mm intake fan: the lowest position is most beneficial to the GPU. My case doesn't have any grate above the PSU and as I was thinking about the turbulence occurring when the air hits the back of the PSU, I placed a makeshift curved ramp out of cardboard leading up from the bottom of the case to the level of the PSU. That shaved off another 1.5°C of the GPU temps. By the way, my rear fan is an intake (at 300 rpm) and I only have one exhaust fan in the top; CPU air flow is reversed. That was the optimal solution for a CPU tower cooler (at moderate rpm) and an open "blow through" GPU (Sapphire Pulse RX Vega56). Otherwise the CPU cooler was sucking in that hot air from the GPU.
Hey, much respect for this video. Must've taken a lot of time. Sad to see you stopped making videos a year ago. Hope things are well.
I hope i can get a useful response. I am currently running an O11D XL with bottom and side intake (6x120mm) top exhaust (push pull Radiator 6x120mm) and 1x exhaust back 1x120mm. Now my fans are iCue LL120s and a while ago some of the LEDs have burned out. Its past warranty and i know its a manufacturing issue. So i was thinking of doing a new setup, originally i wanted Lian Li Uni Fans. So now the option presents itself to build in the Lian Li O11D Evo XL, which supports 9 140mm fans and 2 120mm fans. So i could even do push pull radiator top with 6 140s and generally just do the exact same setup, just replacing all fans with 140s and adding another 120 exhaust in the back. I am now unsure though if i would gain any temperature reduction/benefits at all through this setup.
Amazing video, I was looking for someone who tests flipping the top front fan and turning it to an intake fan
Thanks for the video. I'm curious on your take on this:
My case (fractal north) comes with two 140s. My cooler (ls520se) comes with two 120s. I wanted two top and one rear exhaust with a specific ring led so I got a triple pack of light wings 120s.
The question is: do I keep the front two 140s, or use the cooler 120s in the front and purchase a third 120 as front intake, making it 6x120. Or would 2x 140 intake + 3x 120 exhaust be just as good? Thanks!
Playing mostly games with a 4070ti super.
Thank you for this awesome video! I have exactly the same case (black version) and fans (arctic value pack, 140mm), and I was lost with all the possibilities. You answered my questions, keep up the good job.
Glad to help! I can't test every possible combo of components, but luckily I tested yours!
@@TheTechBuyersGuru Yes you tested even something I was willing to try (top intake). Now I have a question, how were you able to install the 140 tops fans? The cpu power cable gets in the way, was it the same for you? I tried to push a little but was too afraid to damage it.
I bought 3x Arctic F14 BioniX for the front panel, they start resonating in my case between 680-950 RPM. The humming is driving me nuts. So i've forced them to work at 645, sadly I don't dare making fan curve due to the nasty resonance.