Thanks ! I feel, that my intuition did not dissapoint me, when it told me to have a closer look. What I found out completely justified the effort. My only drawback is the lack of interest of the manufacturers. As if they didn´t care that their products don´t work.
Thanks a lot for the video. I’m using Katadin befree for filtering dirty water after using Grayl. Using them 2 years and after your video more satisfied with them! Subscribed!
I was hoping for validation of my Grayl purchase, nonetheless I was surprised in the test results. MSR, having been such a staple in Outdoor Equipment was a big letdown. Sawyer, again with their reputation and massive volume claims, I really expected it to be able to filter bacteria without a problem, despite leaving some color in the water. Great idea carrying a pre-filter for your grayl, I do the same in the form of a millbank bag. Also, I've been considering carrying a separate collapsible container and inline cartridge style filter to further prolong the life of my geopress filter. Thank you for your work, it really is priceless.
I noticed in this (and your 2nd video): the Grayl lids or caps must be loosened to allow the air to vent out, otherwise, it takes an incredibly long time to press down on the unit. The first time I tried this - I did not loosen the cap - and I could not push it all the way down, and I almost blew out the sidewall. When I reread the instructions, I understood what I had to do - simply loosen the vent cap or the mouthpiece to let the air squeeze out and pushing down, and it worked very well and quickly😂 this is a reminder for me to always thoroughly read the instructions rather than just assume I know what I’m doing. I know two different models of Grayle, and they both work fast when I press down on them😂🎉
This lesson was learned before 1st press on Cam for Video 1 ;) So I can assure cap was loose in all cases. In Video2, at Minute 4:00 you can hear me unscrew it and at 17:55ish I even comment "and I´m opening that thing...." meaning the cap.
As I suspected would happen. I'd stick to military gear, (not companies that claim they work with the military. I used to work with the military. That doesn't mean I produced a good consumer product.) Ultimately, never trust consumer-grade gear for essential equipment, and test military gear under the conditions you will be using it. Thanks for verifying my suspicions.
Hi John, agreed, but that raises the question: What does the military use ? I know of German Bundeswehr, they use a variant of the life straw in their pilot survival kits, but other then that ? Not sure..... 73 Manuel; DL2MAN
I’m using the Platypus Quick Draw filter. After watching your video, I need to test as it is part of the Cascade Designs company as is MSR 😳 Merry Christmas & 73! (KQ4MNL)
Thanks, I know Platypus only for their inline charcoal filters. They are not as common around here. Weill definately have a look at them. 73 Manuel; DL2MAN
Thank you for testing such a variety of filters, it's very interesting. It seems that it is impossible to find a perfect filter. You may be able to design your own system using ready-made filters like Brita MicroDisc (Vorteilpack mit 6 Wasserfiltern). So I suggest filtering the water in any possible way, and then boil it. I use a Lixada stove. Attention, it works only with ethyl alcohol, isopropyl alcohol is not suitable for this purpose. 73
Brita Filters are not made for bacteria or virus removal. What I learned from this: Pre-Filter the water to remove the worst turbidities, then enjoy fresh water from the grayl, that will not clog up. At least, that´s what my viewers confirmed me here in the comments. Boiling -of course- is always on the safe side. While you mention the "Lixada": I´m a big fan of wood gasifying stoves....... I use them with "Pellets" for ease of use and with "cut and chopped twig wood" when on a longer trip..... 73 Manuel; DL2MAN
What filter do I use? None at all. I use two-component (chlorine dioxide + phosphoric acid) chemical treatment when I am on a day hike too long to carry enough city water or on an overnight backpacking trip. Pristine is a brand available in Canada, and Aquamira is a brand available in the USA. I don't know if things like this are available in Europe. There is a delay in using the stuff. You need to mix a few drops of each of the two chemicals in the cap of one of the bottles and (at normal temperatures) wait 5 minutes for the chemicals to react with each other. Then you add the mixed liquid to your water, shake well, and, again at normal temperatures, wait 30 minutes before consuming the water. You pretty well have to stop walking during the 5 minutes, but you can resume walking during the 30 minutes. The treated water tastes something like the highly treated city water in my old home town of Cincinnati, OH. Their water comes from the Ohio River. If you look at a map and see how many sizable cities are upstream from Cincinnati you'll understand why Cincinnati water tastes like a swimming pool smells. And so it is for water treated with Pristine or Aquamira. But I've never gotten sick from water treated this way. Of course his technique does not remove glacial silt, which you don't want to consume, but a rudimentary cloth filter can be used to remove enough of that, quickly, and at low cost, before treating the water, if your water source is silty. One more thing: If you keep the small bottles in a warm place like your pocket they won't freeze in very cold weather. A filter can freeze. So I wouldn't like to use a filter in the winter, or at high altitude, even if it worked better than the ones you tested. David VE7EZM and AF7BZ
Well, This might be topic for another Video, because I have plenty of different water treatment chemicals (Chlorine, Chlorin dioxide, Potassium permanganate) as well, that I would like to test before figuring out they do not work, the hard way. I used my merino-wool scarf to pre-filter the water, before I filled it in the canister, but still the filters clogged up very fast. We´ll see. Now I´m happy this project is online and the next one will take some preparation and thinking. 73 Manuel; DL2MAN
Have you tried using a millbank bag?. thanks for the great info. I have a grayl and a Pureclear which having watched this I believe uses the same ahlstrom filters. Merry Christmas.
$30 dollars or so for a filter is a lot of money for 1.5 liters of fresh water that will last half a day. I think that makes clear that these filter systems are completely useless. In a SHTF scenario I suppose large multi-step filtration setups are the only way to go. Lugging around a single gallon jug of fresh water will completely outperform these expensive filter systems.
You´re absolutely right about the multi-step filtration. I guess, that´s what will be the logical solution. But the price needs to be seen in relation. The 1,5Liters were generated, using water, that you normally would absolutely not drink. Even their manuals say, don´t use water like that. But if it´s the last resort, I know at least, I have 1,5L to move on and at least the Grayl still provides clean water after that. WIth very hard pressing needed. 73 Manuel; DL2MAN
Excellent video and thorough walkthrough. It's quite disheartening to witness such poor responses from the suppliers. You're probably correct in suggesting that a more effective pre-filtering method is essential, as I don't perceive a mere 2 liters to be significantly substantial. Grayl, I believe, now offers a titanium variant, enabling one to boil water either prior to or after filtration (assuming that option is available), which should substantially mitigate bacterial presence. However, this approach somewhat defeats the purpose of what these devices, so to speak, were originally intended to offer - a straightforward, convenient filtration solution. That is, if boiling water, either before or after using the filter, becomes a necessity, does it then justify acquiring these filters at all?
In all fairness: The water, I´ve used to test the filters is visibly for everyone not the best choice. If you walk by that puddle, you´d instictively say: No.... Let´s move on. If you filter water from a clear creek, you will be safe and it probably will filter the 150L with ease. But I wanted to simulate worst case, because in a desert or something alike, your only water source might look like that. And the results were quite humbling.... 73 Manuel; DL2MAN
@@dl2man Thank you for your reply, Manuel. Your approach in testing with visibly contaminated water indeed sets a realistic scenario, especially for situations like in a desert where choices are limited. It's a valuable reminder of the diverse challenges one might face in different environments. The results indeed seem humbling and highlight the importance of having reliable equipment in such circumstances. It also raises an interesting question about the balance between equipment capability and practical usability in extreme conditions. Do you think there's a point where the quality of the water source is simply too compromised for any portable filter to handle effectively? 73
@@ultrakulultrakul Definately. Biologically: Think of a hole in african savannah at the end of a long dry period. Chemically: Think of contamination by agriculture, industry, even communal water cleaning or even poisoning by certain algae. This is all stuff, that waterfilters can not handle. But in all those cases (exept maybe the first one) boiling would also be no option.....73
I've never believed in outdoor water filters - always boiled all the water I took from lakes, streams and rivers. It's not that difficult, actually, and we don't consume possibly polluted water for sufficiently long time in our trips.
I've used all sorts of filters over the years, and I've settled on the Grayl Titanium Ultrapress as my go to system. I can generally find very clear water here in Upstate New York, so clogging has never been an issue.......but I could see how it would be if the water was very dirty. I like titanium version because it allows me to boil water as a backup. Side note, a Snowpeak 300ml titanium cup nests PERFECTLY on the Ti version of the Grayl, which gives you even more options for cooking/boiling.
Great Work. It's a shame that the customer service is that poor. Very disappointed of MSR and also Sawyer. Maybe doing a second try with the Sawyer is needed to make sure no cross contamination happend regarding the unusual pattern on the stripe. That being said, i would probably just Take a sawyer plus a second Active Charcoal stage (Katadyn has an option) and or filter the water two times if the source is highly questionable. That will most likely get rid of the worst and you can service the filter by backflushing. Prefiltering is always suggested so you don't have to backflush as often. Cheers
I tested the sawyer 2 times in this video, and it behaved the same 2 times. I can only try the second sawyer I still have. But I´ve lost the trust in that Brand anyway. Just to mention: After that Video I asked Sawyer a second time for help (to explain my results, or any sign from them of good will, like replacing my obviously faulty unit). This time sending it to the US and the EU E-Mail. Absolutely no response.....
@@dl2man Ah my bad, i didnt realize you already tested it 2 times. .. lets hope my Squeeze + Active charcoal stage will save me from Vomiting and else... On the other side i never heard anything bad about them. Still very disappointing. Thanks for you service.
Looking at the video of the MSR here to me it seems that it does not keep the plunger straight when pulled out, creating a gap through which dirty water escapes. I would not consider this a quality control issue but a fundamental design flaw. Probably for cost-cutting reasons. This unit is not designed for outdoor handling.
Excellent work! You got me wondering how effective the Boy Scout version of improvised water filtration using buckets of gravel and fine sand would have been. Probably not that great. Thank you for sharing this.
There is no sterile filtration, but it for sure would have reduced contamination. Enough ? No idea.... But could at least be an interesting option to pre-filter the water, so the real one doesn´t get clogged up so fast. 73 Maneul; DL2MAN
The removal of colour from the water could simply be achieved by bleaching. So it’s more likely an aesthetic issue. But, as we know, most bleaches are also antibacterial, so the results aren’t too surprising. To say t clear, I would never rely on a filter cup, with which I simply have to suck the questionable water right into my mouth. By the way, most of us outdoorers would very much appreciate hints on when or why you can drink water without using devices. Wouldn’t that be a great video?
You can try to exclude potential issues, when selecting your water source, but since pathogenes and chemicals are invisible to the human eye, I would be sceptical about a video that tells you "you don´t need a filter here".... But I´ve heard very often the opposite case: People used a filter and got sick anyway. This is why I wanted to know -with higher certainty- if those filters do what they promise. There´s never 100% safety. Even tap water can be contaminated.....
I REALLY appreciate this series of videos! So few people have asked the real questions about these purifiers or even begun to question their claims and the "evidence" upon which they base them. Not only did you do that, you actually did your own test, which you admitted doesn't follow scientific proposal but which still tells consumers important things. I wish this series would get a lot more viewers. Water purification can be a life-or-death issue people. Thank you for taking it so seriously. This is very, very important work.
Thank you so much ! It was a lot of work, but it was totally worth it, as I personally was interested in the outcome. Regardless of view numbers. In the end, it´s like a good wine: It will get appreciated more after some time ;)
@@dl2manAnd you never heard from any of the companies whose products you reviewed? I'd be surprised if you didn't. Of course, let sleeping dogs lie! (Sorry to compare your videos to sleeping dogs--ha!)
No, they never replied. In case of Sawyer, I even started another attempt, in order to get an explaination why the test result could have been the way it was. No reaction exept the ones shown in this very video.
Manuel -- Happy Christmas. I use the Grayl Ultrapress and I'm happy with its performance. I don't try to process really dirty water but look for a fast flowing stream and collect my water from that. I mainly use this when I'm on SOTA or other portable Amateur Radio activities -- so am often climbing hills and so far, have been able to find fast flowing streams. As far as I am aware, I've never been ill following the use of the Grayl and I still have the spare filter cartridge after 2 years of usage of the original. Good video -- and thanks for your efforts in this and your other projects (I have one of your truSDx rigs 🙂) 73 Bruce F/G4ABX
Thanks, If you use the Grayl according to the manual "lifespan is shortened in water conatining impurities such as mud, silt or tannins", I think the Grayl is a gread choice and after this test my clear favorite. Hope to work you on Bands ! 73 Manuel; DL2MAN
Thank you for this interesting and complex test. I would have expected that the MSR filter would be the test winner and second place would then be taken by the Grayl filter. I have been using a Grayl filter, the larger version, at least weekly for over a year and always run the raw water through a coffee paper filter before pushing the raw water through the Grayl filter. I would buy a Grayl filter again at any time, but I always have a filter cartridge here as a spare. All the best and a merry Christmas. vy73 from Hamburg/Germany, Dietmar, DL4HAO ;)
Pre-Filtering is definately premium advice here ! I also thought MSR would rock, but in the end it´s just companies trying to get your money with least effort. Now imagine a real life scenario: You come back from a trip and brought a souvenier, while you always filtered your water through Filter XY. It will be impossible to proof, that the filter did not work. There´s a huge amount of possibilities for failure. For example: Even IF your Filter works perfectly: At some point you have contact with the source water. If that somehow gets into your clean water... BINGO.
Thanks, Well the Sawyer is rated for bacteria, protozoa and cyst only, while the grayl is also rated for viruses, which are 1/10 smaller..... So I had expected they Grayl to be somewhat better, but not the Sawyer to pass through bacteria.... To be honest, I initially thought, my test was too easy and in the end I would see them all pass..... Well, this is why we need to try out stuff instead of assuming they work, I guess. If you find out, that they donßt work, when you really need them, it´s too late. 73 Manuel; DL2MAN
Ask me, I hope, this was just an accident. But in general all those filters are a "black box" where you only can trust, what the manufacturers claim. I´m not the guy to just believe stuff, especially when they claim to have proof, but deny me access to it.... This is a reason to look very closely at the topic. This was my whole motivation to do this. And instead of doing this alone in my basement, I´d like to share and discuss that publicly, as I´m really interested in different opinions. 73 Manuel; DL2MAN
You mentioned it here, but the minis have a notoriously slow flow rate. I went back and watched the 2nd video, and the flow looked much, much faster than a normal mini. Maybe it was a defective unit, or initially squeezing may have caused some kind of internal gasket failure or something. I e got one in a bag somewhere. If I can find it, I'll check the flow rate. Another test from a channel called "Van R" sent the filtered water off for analysis and it appeared effective in that test. Interesting data either way!
the model utilizing nano tube filter tech are very reliable and used commercially everywhere from labs to city filtration. they can be very easily and reliably cleaned (dirt) by water or air back flushing. the sawyer is the best one i personally tested. ive been using mine for 2years and i have never encountered problems. i do not understand your test result showing it is not filtering bacteria. it is not normal. maybe you accidentally received a used product. i would be interested to see if you could "sterilizing" the filter with alcohol, peroxide or something.
@@xszl i dont know where he bought it. i also do not know if it was used or not. i am just saying that it is a possibility with anything/filter. since he proved with his test that it was contaminated from the beginning it is very abnormal. why would a commercial inert filter like this have bacteria inside? living bacteria too! i bought many many things from Amazon for example and a couple of times i have received used products that were re-packaged and sent back to the seller. to save 10$ they will simply put it back "in stock" without checking anything.
@hitachi088 thought so as well, but amongst professionals their manufacturer claims are laughed about. This is why I wanted to test them. Maybe Sawyer will contact me after that Video and provide me with a filter, that is for sure not contaminated and brand new. I can only buy them, and use, what I get, which is what I did in this test. P.S. I did not proof, the filter was contaminated. I just proofed, that the filter would pass contaminated water. There might be as well just a broken tube inside or pore size too big on this one. Plenty of possibilities. 73 Manuel; DL2MAN
@@dl2man humm. i agree that a filter for human drinking water that is not filtering is unacceptable. i think it is even more scary because if a "random" person like you just happened to buy one and make a test to have a failed filter then what is the probability of other people to have a defective filter also? there should be more testing done by more people, it is very bad. i personally use a Sawyer filter all the time, i even bought 3 others to keep as backup because i love them very much. i will try to find a good reliable test to check mine. there is also misinformation about those. MSR say that the nano tube filters can be "checked" for integrity by trying to push air in reverse. later on i discovered that it is false. industrial application of those use air blackflushing to clean the filter. this prove that even a good filter can allow air to pass. i contacted a big manufacturer of filter fibers like this, they told me it was indeed true. we cannot test by using the air trick. it is wrong information. anyway thank you for your time as always.
Lifestraw "personal" is a hollow fiber filter like the Sawyer with the disadvantages of the Ahstrom Bottle: You cannot create clean water and take it with you. This also makes a test more challenging. While I have one sealed Lifestraw personal here, I did not have enough test stripes to add another filter. Maybe in the next Videos, but actually LifeStraw is off my list, because it does not fit my needs....
Great video - I have the Grayl and extra filters. What a wonderful series!!! Thank you!!! We have the same bottle color =) 73s from Texas!!!
Thanks ! I feel, that my intuition did not dissapoint me, when it told me to have a closer look. What I found out completely justified the effort. My only drawback is the lack of interest of the manufacturers. As if they didn´t care that their products don´t work.
Thanks a lot for the video. I’m using Katadin befree for filtering dirty water after using Grayl. Using them 2 years and after your video more satisfied with them! Subscribed!
I was hoping for validation of my Grayl purchase, nonetheless I was surprised in the test results. MSR, having been such a staple in Outdoor Equipment was a big letdown. Sawyer, again with their reputation and massive volume claims, I really expected it to be able to filter bacteria without a problem, despite leaving some color in the water. Great idea carrying a pre-filter for your grayl, I do the same in the form of a millbank bag. Also, I've been considering carrying a separate collapsible container and inline cartridge style filter to further prolong the life of my geopress filter. Thank you for your work, it really is priceless.
I noticed in this (and your 2nd video): the Grayl lids or caps must be loosened to allow the air to vent out, otherwise, it takes an incredibly long time to press down on the unit. The first time I tried this - I did not loosen the cap - and I could not push it all the way down, and I almost blew out the sidewall. When I reread the instructions, I understood what I had to do - simply loosen the vent cap or the mouthpiece to let the air squeeze out and pushing down, and it worked very well and quickly😂 this is a reminder for me to always thoroughly read the instructions rather than just assume I know what I’m doing. I know two different models of Grayle, and they both work fast when I press down on them😂🎉
This lesson was learned before 1st press on Cam for Video 1 ;) So I can assure cap was loose in all cases. In Video2, at Minute 4:00 you can hear me unscrew it and at 17:55ish I even comment "and I´m opening that thing...." meaning the cap.
Sir, you are a hero. The end findings are depressing but appreciate the work.
Very impressive results of your tests, Manuel.
Thanks.
This three part series was an impressive test. thank you for your hard work
Thank you ! It was a lot of work, but the results were worth it.
As I suspected would happen. I'd stick to military gear, (not companies that claim they work with the military. I used to work with the military. That doesn't mean I produced a good consumer product.) Ultimately, never trust consumer-grade gear for essential equipment, and test military gear under the conditions you will be using it. Thanks for verifying my suspicions.
Hi John, agreed, but that raises the question: What does the military use ? I know of German Bundeswehr, they use a variant of the life straw in their pilot survival kits, but other then that ? Not sure..... 73 Manuel; DL2MAN
I’m using the Platypus Quick Draw filter. After watching your video, I need to test as it is part of the Cascade Designs company as is MSR 😳 Merry Christmas & 73! (KQ4MNL)
Thanks, I know Platypus only for their inline charcoal filters. They are not as common around here. Weill definately have a look at them. 73 Manuel; DL2MAN
Good Video Manuel. Maybe you can make a playlist with all 3 videos, so these can be easier shared.
Thanks. Good Idea, here´s the Playlist: th-cam.com/play/PLcV-YqR57ZGPH3LMmAb9gJJkYBoBY4KEi.html
Thank you for testing such a variety of filters, it's very interesting. It seems that it is impossible to find a perfect filter.
You may be able to design your own system using ready-made filters like
Brita MicroDisc (Vorteilpack mit 6 Wasserfiltern). So I suggest filtering the water in any possible way, and then boil it.
I use a Lixada stove. Attention, it works only with ethyl alcohol, isopropyl alcohol is not suitable for this purpose.
73
Brita Filters are not made for bacteria or virus removal. What I learned from this: Pre-Filter the water to remove the worst turbidities, then enjoy fresh water from the grayl, that will not clog up. At least, that´s what my viewers confirmed me here in the comments. Boiling -of course- is always on the safe side. While you mention the "Lixada": I´m a big fan of wood gasifying stoves....... I use them with "Pellets" for ease of use and with "cut and chopped twig wood" when on a longer trip..... 73 Manuel; DL2MAN
What filter do I use? None at all. I use two-component (chlorine dioxide + phosphoric acid) chemical treatment when I am on a day hike too long to carry enough city water or on an overnight backpacking trip. Pristine is a brand available in Canada, and Aquamira is a brand available in the USA. I don't know if things like this are available in Europe.
There is a delay in using the stuff. You need to mix a few drops of each of the two chemicals in the cap of one of the bottles and (at normal temperatures) wait 5 minutes for the chemicals to react with each other. Then you add the mixed liquid to your water, shake well, and, again at normal temperatures, wait 30 minutes before consuming the water. You pretty well have to stop walking during the 5 minutes, but you can resume walking during the 30 minutes. The treated water tastes something like the highly treated city water in my old home town of Cincinnati, OH. Their water comes from the Ohio River. If you look at a map and see how many sizable cities are upstream from Cincinnati you'll understand why Cincinnati water tastes like a swimming pool smells. And so it is for water treated with Pristine or Aquamira. But I've never gotten sick from water treated this way. Of course his technique does not remove glacial silt, which you don't want to consume, but a rudimentary cloth filter can be used to remove enough of that, quickly, and at low cost, before treating the water, if your water source is silty.
One more thing: If you keep the small bottles in a warm place like your pocket they won't freeze in very cold weather. A filter can freeze. So I wouldn't like to use a filter in the winter, or at high altitude, even if it worked better than the ones you tested.
David VE7EZM and AF7BZ
Well, This might be topic for another Video, because I have plenty of different water treatment chemicals (Chlorine, Chlorin dioxide, Potassium permanganate) as well, that I would like to test before figuring out they do not work, the hard way. I used my merino-wool scarf to pre-filter the water, before I filled it in the canister, but still the filters clogged up very fast. We´ll see. Now I´m happy this project is online and the next one will take some preparation and thinking. 73 Manuel; DL2MAN
Have you tried using a millbank bag?. thanks for the great info. I have a grayl and a Pureclear which having watched this I believe uses the same ahlstrom filters. Merry Christmas.
No, was not aware they existed ! THanks for the hint, will definately read into it and order some ! Thanks again.
$30 dollars or so for a filter is a lot of money for 1.5 liters of fresh water that will last half a day. I think that makes clear that these filter systems are completely useless. In a SHTF scenario I suppose large multi-step filtration setups are the only way to go. Lugging around a single gallon jug of fresh water will completely outperform these expensive filter systems.
You´re absolutely right about the multi-step filtration. I guess, that´s what will be the logical solution. But the price needs to be seen in relation. The 1,5Liters were generated, using water, that you normally would absolutely not drink. Even their manuals say, don´t use water like that. But if it´s the last resort, I know at least, I have 1,5L to move on and at least the Grayl still provides clean water after that. WIth very hard pressing needed. 73 Manuel; DL2MAN
Excellent video and thorough walkthrough. It's quite disheartening to witness such poor responses from the suppliers. You're probably correct in suggesting that a more effective pre-filtering method is essential, as I don't perceive a mere 2 liters to be significantly substantial. Grayl, I believe, now offers a titanium variant, enabling one to boil water either prior to or after filtration (assuming that option is available), which should substantially mitigate bacterial presence. However, this approach somewhat defeats the purpose of what these devices, so to speak, were originally intended to offer - a straightforward, convenient filtration solution. That is, if boiling water, either before or after using the filter, becomes a necessity, does it then justify acquiring these filters at all?
In all fairness: The water, I´ve used to test the filters is visibly for everyone not the best choice. If you walk by that puddle, you´d instictively say: No.... Let´s move on. If you filter water from a clear creek, you will be safe and it probably will filter the 150L with ease. But I wanted to simulate worst case, because in a desert or something alike, your only water source might look like that. And the results were quite humbling.... 73 Manuel; DL2MAN
@@dl2man Thank you for your reply, Manuel. Your approach in testing with visibly contaminated water indeed sets a realistic scenario, especially for situations like in a desert where choices are limited. It's a valuable reminder of the diverse challenges one might face in different environments. The results indeed seem humbling and highlight the importance of having reliable equipment in such circumstances. It also raises an interesting question about the balance between equipment capability and practical usability in extreme conditions. Do you think there's a point where the quality of the water source is simply too compromised for any portable filter to handle effectively? 73
@@ultrakulultrakul Definately. Biologically: Think of a hole in african savannah at the end of a long dry period. Chemically: Think of contamination by agriculture, industry, even communal water cleaning or even poisoning by certain algae. This is all stuff, that waterfilters can not handle. But in all those cases (exept maybe the first one) boiling would also be no option.....73
I've never believed in outdoor water filters - always boiled all the water I took from lakes, streams and rivers. It's not that difficult, actually, and we don't consume possibly polluted water for sufficiently long time in our trips.
I've used all sorts of filters over the years, and I've settled on the Grayl Titanium Ultrapress as my go to system. I can generally find very clear water here in Upstate New York, so clogging has never been an issue.......but I could see how it would be if the water was very dirty. I like titanium version because it allows me to boil water as a backup. Side note, a Snowpeak 300ml titanium cup nests PERFECTLY on the Ti version of the Grayl, which gives you even more options for cooking/boiling.
Great Work. It's a shame that the customer service is that poor. Very disappointed of MSR and also Sawyer.
Maybe doing a second try with the Sawyer is needed to make sure no cross contamination happend regarding the unusual pattern on the stripe.
That being said, i would probably just Take a sawyer plus a second Active Charcoal stage (Katadyn has an option) and or filter the water two times if the source is highly questionable. That will most likely get rid of the worst and you can service the filter by backflushing. Prefiltering is always suggested so you don't have to backflush as often.
Cheers
I tested the sawyer 2 times in this video, and it behaved the same 2 times. I can only try the second sawyer I still have. But I´ve lost the trust in that Brand anyway. Just to mention: After that Video I asked Sawyer a second time for help (to explain my results, or any sign from them of good will, like replacing my obviously faulty unit). This time sending it to the US and the EU E-Mail. Absolutely no response.....
@@dl2man Ah my bad, i didnt realize you already tested it 2 times. .. lets hope my Squeeze + Active charcoal stage will save me from Vomiting and else...
On the other side i never heard anything bad about them. Still very disappointing.
Thanks for you service.
Looking at the video of the MSR here to me it seems that it does not keep the plunger straight when pulled out, creating a gap through which dirty water escapes. I would not consider this a quality control issue but a fundamental design flaw. Probably for cost-cutting reasons.
This unit is not designed for outdoor handling.
Excellent work! You got me wondering how effective the Boy Scout version of improvised water filtration using buckets of gravel and fine sand would have been. Probably not that great. Thank you for sharing this.
There is no sterile filtration, but it for sure would have reduced contamination. Enough ? No idea.... But could at least be an interesting option to pre-filter the water, so the real one doesn´t get clogged up so fast. 73 Maneul; DL2MAN
The removal of colour from the water could simply be achieved by bleaching. So it’s more likely an aesthetic issue. But, as we know, most bleaches are also antibacterial, so the results aren’t too surprising. To say t clear, I would never rely on a filter cup, with which I simply have to suck the questionable water right into my mouth. By the way, most of us outdoorers would very much appreciate hints on when or why you can drink water without using devices. Wouldn’t that be a great video?
You can try to exclude potential issues, when selecting your water source, but since pathogenes and chemicals are invisible to the human eye, I would be sceptical about a video that tells you "you don´t need a filter here".... But I´ve heard very often the opposite case: People used a filter and got sick anyway. This is why I wanted to know -with higher certainty- if those filters do what they promise. There´s never 100% safety. Even tap water can be contaminated.....
I REALLY appreciate this series of videos! So few people have asked the real questions about these purifiers or even begun to question their claims and the "evidence" upon which they base them. Not only did you do that, you actually did your own test, which you admitted doesn't follow scientific proposal but which still tells consumers important things. I wish this series would get a lot more viewers. Water purification can be a life-or-death issue people. Thank you for taking it so seriously. This is very, very important work.
Thank you so much ! It was a lot of work, but it was totally worth it, as I personally was interested in the outcome. Regardless of view numbers. In the end, it´s like a good wine: It will get appreciated more after some time ;)
@@dl2manAnd you never heard from any of the companies whose products you reviewed? I'd be surprised if you didn't. Of course, let sleeping dogs lie! (Sorry to compare your videos to sleeping dogs--ha!)
No, they never replied. In case of Sawyer, I even started another attempt, in order to get an explaination why the test result could have been the way it was. No reaction exept the ones shown in this very video.
Manuel -- Happy Christmas.
I use the Grayl Ultrapress and I'm happy with its performance.
I don't try to process really dirty water but look for a fast flowing stream and collect my water from that.
I mainly use this when I'm on SOTA or other portable Amateur Radio activities -- so am often climbing hills and so far, have been able to find fast flowing streams.
As far as I am aware, I've never been ill following the use of the Grayl and I still have the spare filter cartridge after 2 years of usage of the original.
Good video -- and thanks for your efforts in this and your other projects (I have one of your truSDx rigs 🙂)
73 Bruce F/G4ABX
Thanks, If you use the Grayl according to the manual "lifespan is shortened in water conatining impurities such as mud, silt or tannins", I think the Grayl is a gread choice and after this test my clear favorite. Hope to work you on Bands ! 73 Manuel; DL2MAN
Thank you for this interesting and complex test. I would have expected that the MSR filter would be the test winner and second place would then be taken by the Grayl filter. I have been using a Grayl filter, the larger version, at least weekly for over a year and always run the raw water through a coffee paper filter before pushing the raw water through the Grayl filter. I would buy a Grayl filter again at any time, but I always have a filter cartridge here as a spare. All the best and a merry Christmas. vy73 from Hamburg/Germany, Dietmar, DL4HAO ;)
Pre-Filtering is definately premium advice here ! I also thought MSR would rock, but in the end it´s just companies trying to get your money with least effort. Now imagine a real life scenario: You come back from a trip and brought a souvenier, while you always filtered your water through Filter XY. It will be impossible to proof, that the filter did not work. There´s a huge amount of possibilities for failure. For example: Even IF your Filter works perfectly: At some point you have contact with the source water. If that somehow gets into your clean water... BINGO.
Nice work, Manuel. I expected Sawyer to perform like the Grayl sp that is a surprise. Is the Lifestraw another name for one of the tested filters?
Thanks, Well the Sawyer is rated for bacteria, protozoa and cyst only, while the grayl is also rated for viruses, which are 1/10 smaller..... So I had expected they Grayl to be somewhat better, but not the Sawyer to pass through bacteria.... To be honest, I initially thought, my test was too easy and in the end I would see them all pass..... Well, this is why we need to try out stuff instead of assuming they work, I guess. If you find out, that they donßt work, when you really need them, it´s too late. 73 Manuel; DL2MAN
I am surprised and disappointed by the performance of the Sawyer. Merry Christmas!
Ask me, I hope, this was just an accident. But in general all those filters are a "black box" where you only can trust, what the manufacturers claim. I´m not the guy to just believe stuff, especially when they claim to have proof, but deny me access to it.... This is a reason to look very closely at the topic. This was my whole motivation to do this. And instead of doing this alone in my basement, I´d like to share and discuss that publicly, as I´m really interested in different opinions. 73 Manuel; DL2MAN
Thanks for the test Manuel!
You mentioned it here, but the minis have a notoriously slow flow rate. I went back and watched the 2nd video, and the flow looked much, much faster than a normal mini. Maybe it was a defective unit, or initially squeezing may have caused some kind of internal gasket failure or something. I e got one in a bag somewhere. If I can find it, I'll check the flow rate. Another test from a channel called "Van R" sent the filtered water off for analysis and it appeared effective in that test. Interesting data either way!
You're right. That might be a clue, that my unit is defective. Since it's unusable, I'll try to open it. Maybe I'll see something inside
the model utilizing nano tube filter tech are very reliable and used commercially everywhere from labs to city filtration. they can be very easily and reliably cleaned (dirt) by water or air back flushing. the sawyer is the best one i personally tested. ive been using mine for 2years and i have never encountered problems.
i do not understand your test result showing it is not filtering bacteria. it is not normal. maybe you accidentally received a used product. i would be interested to see if you could "sterilizing" the filter with alcohol, peroxide or something.
so its a lotto. If you get a good one, you have jackpot
@@xszl i dont know where he bought it. i also do not know if it was used or not.
i am just saying that it is a possibility with anything/filter. since he proved with his test that it was contaminated from the beginning it is very abnormal. why would a commercial inert filter like this have bacteria inside? living bacteria too!
i bought many many things from Amazon for example and a couple of times i have received used products that were re-packaged and sent back to the seller. to save 10$ they will simply put it back "in stock" without checking anything.
@hitachi088 thought so as well, but amongst professionals their manufacturer claims are laughed about. This is why I wanted to test them. Maybe Sawyer will contact me after that Video and provide me with a filter, that is for sure not contaminated and brand new. I can only buy them, and use, what I get, which is what I did in this test. P.S. I did not proof, the filter was contaminated. I just proofed, that the filter would pass contaminated water. There might be as well just a broken tube inside or pore size too big on this one. Plenty of possibilities. 73 Manuel; DL2MAN
@@dl2man humm. i agree that a filter for human drinking water that is not filtering is unacceptable. i think it is even more scary because if a "random" person like you just happened to buy one and make a test to have a failed filter then what is the probability of other people to have a defective filter also?
there should be more testing done by more people, it is very bad.
i personally use a Sawyer filter all the time, i even bought 3 others to keep as backup because i love them very much. i will try to find a good reliable test to check mine.
there is also misinformation about those. MSR say that the nano tube filters can be "checked" for integrity by trying to push air in reverse. later on i discovered that it is false. industrial application of those use air blackflushing to clean the filter. this prove that even a good filter can allow air to pass. i contacted a big manufacturer of filter fibers like this, they told me it was indeed true. we cannot test by using the air trick. it is wrong information.
anyway thank you for your time as always.
What test strips are you using? I want to test my Well water for my house
Look for WaterWorks "Bacteria Growth Check". In my case bought under Brand Name "Aquaself" Bakterien Wassertest.
what about LIFESTRAW filter?
Lifestraw "personal" is a hollow fiber filter like the Sawyer with the disadvantages of the Ahstrom Bottle: You cannot create clean water and take it with you. This also makes a test more challenging. While I have one sealed Lifestraw personal here, I did not have enough test stripes to add another filter. Maybe in the next Videos, but actually LifeStraw is off my list, because it does not fit my needs....