I think the thought process for most is flow coating allows you to flatten the previous layers of paints. Then by reducing the next two coats of clear you will end up with less trash and peel which means less cutting and buffing for the final finish.
I used to work in a bodyshop that did a lot of drag race cars and collision work ......most jobs got 3 to 4 good coats of clear and the cut with 100 1500 200 2500 and sometimes 3000 and buffed......and the shop was known in the area for slick paint jobs ....that being said ....when I painted my personal truck a 96 s 10 with a core swap 2000 front end.....I did 3 coats clear....came in 12 hrs. Later 800 water sanded then put on 3 more coats .....cut and buffed it and it looked amazing ....and was easier to cut and buff ...idk ....but definitely be careful not to sand threw the clear if you flow coat
Fantastic job , I see the flow coat for artwork or stripes but as you showed the halo effect could happen to a cut threw area of the flow coat, I tend to stack
That was a great way to demonstrate this debate. There is pros and cons either way, but generally i think it boils down to painter/buffer skillset and condtions in the paint environment. The stacking of excess layers of clear will tend to look very heavy around bodylines etc and need more aggressive cut and buff methods to get a nice look. Faster in paint slower in buff, but the flow coat way allows you to paint production style, sand away texture or defects easy and reclear for a sweet topcoat that is easy to buff. if done right this is a better way imo but time is money so depends on the situation. As a guy who has done tons of paint/buffing in my trade you have plenty of time to notice details that most others wouldnt....
Honestly, that was an extreme test, valid, but extreme. I think it's safe to say under a normal and careful cut and buff like one would in a 2-3 coat clear job, flow coating is relatively safe. It took a lot to break through that side plus the addition of thinners. The next question would be the suggested clear to use. Same or supposedly better? Reduced or unreduced?
Well said i'd agree with careful cut and buff flow coating would be fine. It made more sense to me to just put 4-5 coats on while you're already in the booth IF you're going to be doing some serious cut / buffing anyways. If I had some heavy peal or trash to get rid of and didn't really need a serious cut / polish a flow coat would probably be easier for sure. As far a reducer / no reduced, it would have to depend on what clear you're shooting. This particular clear is Sikkens HS plus which doesn't really need a reducer. The slow version lays out great.
I have tried stacking clear in the past. Maybe the HS euro clear didn’t like the millage but I noticed it framed the edges alot . I walk the side when I spray too. Anything that I want flat I flow coat, much cleaner finish.
You basically have created a blend line on a modern thermoset clear coat. That’s why it’s not recommended to try to “burn in” clear on a repair. The edge will show up sooner or later. Guys that are old enough to have used lacquer were able to melt in a blend within a panel because it would re-wet the under layer of lacquer paint and you could buff the hazy edge away. Catalyzed clears and single stage urethane won’t do that. The new layers lay on top of what has set up with hardened/catalyzed paint. I enjoyed your demonstration. I can tell you take a lot of pride in your craft👍
You started with 1000 grit and itvwas ready to buff. You went to 800 to break through and went to 320 to actually get through. I think you are safe to flowcoat.
After you have been painting cars long enough you will understand when and where to flow, when and where to stack. Neither one is right all the time. I personally flow coat the next day, never untape, and have never had an issue, but 75% of what I flow coat is a disassembled part, so washed off clear isn't in the cracks.
Similar concept to a smart repair. I did it on my daily and every 6 months or so I have to buff a halo out. It was meant to be a temporary repair so I am fine with 10 minutes of work ever 6 months. But for a $10,000+ full paint job I wouldn’t be a happy camper. I am still contemplating a flow coat on my corvette I am about to repaint. I think it has benefits for those of us without a paint booth. Let’s me 800 grit all of the trash out and then I only need to worry about trash in my last 2 coats of clear while buffing.
It's really not a problem. As you saw, it took thinner to reveal the different layers, but disbonding would mainly come from breaking through the clear. A flow coat is a full panel coat. Even with 2 coats you'd be used pressed to burn through unless being careless
Id rather cut and buff that way you have more control of the look, you are looking for. It takes patience for sure but nothing beats knocking all the clear flat and polishing out
I wonder if it would be better to use a intercoat for the first couple coats of the flow coat. Would help speed up process for sure. Just sayin. Great video
@@lowcountrylowdown9000 I still just to be safe I go ahead and flow coat because I have the time to do it I feel safer doing 2 coats let it set 800 then 2 more coats
flow coat will leave a ring over time if you break threw the "flow coat " layers... there is a mechanical bond vrs a chemical bond... we stack clear 6 to 8 coats... but start cutting with 600... i dont car what anyone says... you can not cut urethane wave out with 1000 grit paper... you will have a high gloss ripple paint job if you cut with 1000.... arcylic blocks ...start at 600... finish grit is another argument.... cut compound leaves more coarse scratch then 3000 or 5000 .. so no need to sand that fine....
@@RedHammerBodyShop I ordered some from amazon earlier. It had some good reviews too. Always looking to branch out and try new things!! Thanks for the recommendation.
Thank you for this, flow coating has seemed to be a fad that took off, had a professional painter tell me exactly what you proved and it is twice as much work, so unless you are burying art work, graphics that are done on top of a clear coat … why do it ? Burn thru is not worth it.
flow coat has a much better flatter finish off the gun. If you are getting paid by the hour on the job might as well stack the clear and cut and buff it.
5 coats of any clear especially some of these high solid clear. The painter really better be paying attention. Very easily turn into a big prob. And I mean wet coats not well dust first one then little more 2and and so on lol
It's been sitting behind my shot, I used the fender for another video; however, I still think the test areas are fine, so I will go check and see. I doubt the sun did anything in that short of a time period.
Flow coating in my opinion is for show cars only less Orange peel and will weather better in the long term and will always look better and you couldn’t rub through unless you had a big night the night before 😂
Flow Coating is what the pros do for show cars and has been done for decades. You tried way too hard to look for this failure which is really unrealistic in properly done paint jobs. Im going to keep flow coating. It also gives a deeper gloss and shine to a paint job.
I saw the flow coat. In the image. Just before u buffed and polished. Before u add solvent. Watch vid. Easier to see on film. It’s 1” back from stack coat line
You're supposed to wait a couple of months for the clear to cure properly before spraying a flow coat. Otherwise because the original clear isn't cured properly it absorbs the flow coat and can look "cloudy".
wow, I've never had that issue before and I've scuffed and recleared things the next day (not for flow coating but collision work screw up or too many runs on a collision job). I might have to research this one.
The ring is so subtle, I’m not sure you would see it unless the finish was mirror like the right side. Your lack of prep before buffing the left side may well have hidden the layer interfaces given how subtle they are.
@@LTVoyager It is very subtle yes. I guess my concern is longevity if, and only if, one was to break through the top flow coat layer of clear during buffing operations. The approprate mil build isn't there if someone cuts it down too much. Most of the time guys who do this are knowledgable enough not to break or cut too much off. This situation would be similar to a "smart repair" burn in which isn't an advised practice.
@@LTVoyager Agree, I wanted to do 5 to exagerate the situation and also I wanted to see how my clear performed with stacking. Sikkens HS+ handled it like a boss with no solvent pops (even with the runs). On a basic paintjob we would normally do 3 which leaves room for cutting / buffing. Maybe 4 depending on situation or customer.
![[กูเพิ่งซื้อมึงปิดหนี] 20 นาที ผมรีวิวเกมที่แย่ที่สุดในโลก CONCORD](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/XhC-3q3Ii7I/mqdefault.jpg)
I think the thought process for most is flow coating allows you to flatten the previous layers of paints. Then by reducing the next two coats of clear you will end up with less trash and peel which means less cutting and buffing for the final finish.
im going to flow coat today ,i do every job this way
Awesome video! I paint in my garage and flow coat has saved my paint jobs. It's really hard to buff out stacked clear with dust in it
The whole idea of a flow coat is you end up with a flat finish(no orange peel) so you only need to denib the last paint, not flat and polish it .
I used to work in a bodyshop that did a lot of drag race cars and collision work ......most jobs got 3 to 4 good coats of clear and the cut with 100 1500 200 2500 and sometimes 3000 and buffed......and the shop was known in the area for slick paint jobs ....that being said ....when I painted my personal truck a 96 s 10 with a core swap 2000 front end.....I did 3 coats clear....came in 12 hrs. Later 800 water sanded then put on 3 more coats .....cut and buffed it and it looked amazing ....and was easier to cut and buff ...idk ....but definitely be careful not to sand threw the clear if you flow coat
Fantastic job , I see the flow coat for artwork or stripes but as you showed the halo effect could happen to a cut threw area of the flow coat, I tend to stack
That was a great way to demonstrate this debate. There is pros and cons either way, but generally i think it boils down to painter/buffer skillset and condtions in the paint environment. The stacking of excess layers of clear will tend to look very heavy around bodylines etc and need more aggressive cut and buff methods to get a nice look. Faster in paint slower in buff, but the flow coat way allows you to paint production style, sand away texture or defects easy and reclear for a sweet topcoat that is easy to buff. if done right this is a better way imo but time is money so depends on the situation. As a guy who has done tons of paint/buffing in my trade you have plenty of time to notice details that most others wouldnt....
Well said sir! Both ways work just depends on the painter's preference and skillset. I've done both and had success with both.
Honestly, that was an extreme test, valid, but extreme. I think it's safe to say under a normal and careful cut and buff like one would in a 2-3 coat clear job, flow coating is relatively safe. It took a lot to break through that side plus the addition of thinners.
The next question would be the suggested clear to use. Same or supposedly better? Reduced or unreduced?
Well said i'd agree with careful cut and buff flow coating would be fine. It made more sense to me to just put 4-5 coats on while you're already in the booth IF you're going to be doing some serious cut / buffing anyways. If I had some heavy peal or trash to get rid of and didn't really need a serious cut / polish a flow coat would probably be easier for sure. As far a reducer / no reduced, it would have to depend on what clear you're shooting. This particular clear is Sikkens HS plus which doesn't really need a reducer. The slow version lays out great.
I have tried stacking clear in the past. Maybe the HS euro clear didn’t like the millage but I noticed it framed the edges alot . I walk the side when I spray too.
Anything that I want flat I flow coat, much cleaner finish.
yes sir all clears will be different.
Flow coat always seemed unnecessary to me, because you’re going to buff it at the end anyway. 🤷🏽♂️ I’m no pro though so maybe I’m wrong!
You basically have created a blend line on a modern thermoset clear coat. That’s why it’s not recommended to try to “burn in” clear on a repair. The edge will show up sooner or later. Guys that are old enough to have used lacquer were able to melt in a blend within a panel because it would re-wet the under layer of lacquer paint and you could buff the hazy edge away. Catalyzed clears and single stage urethane won’t do that. The new layers lay on top of what has set up with hardened/catalyzed paint. I enjoyed your demonstration. I can tell you take a lot of pride in your craft👍
Exactly...Thank you!
You started with 1000 grit and itvwas ready to buff. You went to 800 to break through and went to 320 to actually get through. I think you are safe to flowcoat.
After you have been painting cars long enough you will understand when and where to flow, when and where to stack. Neither one is right all the time. I personally flow coat the next day, never untape, and have never had an issue, but 75% of what I flow coat is a disassembled part, so washed off clear isn't in the cracks.
both look pretty good from here
I am not a painter .this is a very interesting project! I think it is good to know.
Thank you for your support!
Similar concept to a smart repair. I did it on my daily and every 6 months or so I have to buff a halo out. It was meant to be a temporary repair so I am fine with 10 minutes of work ever 6 months. But for a $10,000+ full paint job I wouldn’t be a happy camper. I am still contemplating a flow coat on my corvette I am about to repaint. I think it has benefits for those of us without a paint booth. Let’s me 800 grit all of the trash out and then I only need to worry about trash in my last 2 coats of clear while buffing.
It's really not a problem. As you saw, it took thinner to reveal the different layers, but disbonding would mainly come from breaking through the clear. A flow coat is a full panel coat. Even with 2 coats you'd be used pressed to burn through unless being careless
I’m pretty sure that there is a much greater time between coats when stacking. If not each layer just melts into the last which is why you have runs.
Id rather cut and buff that way you have more control of the look, you are looking for. It takes patience for sure but nothing beats knocking all the clear flat and polishing out
I wonder if it would be better to use a intercoat for the first couple coats of the flow coat. Would help speed up process for sure. Just sayin. Great video
When I stack clear I use ad 10 minutes more time to the flash time so I will do like 15,25,35,45
Yes sir that makes sense...gotta let those solvents get out.
@@lowcountrylowdown9000 I still just to be safe I go ahead and flow coat because I have the time to do it I feel safer doing 2 coats let it set 800 then 2 more coats
@@rongamble9884 I've done it both ways myself. All depends on situation for me and what customer is looking for.
@@lowcountrylowdown9000 ya I don't do any collision side work unless it's on older streetrods classics no newer stuff
Bro next time take it outside the booth so we can see it with the sun light. Just a suggestion. Thank you for the Information.
good idea, I will make sure to do that next time.
Really enjoyed this video. Thank you.
Thank you!
So I’m flow coating my square body truck , I just did the last clear spray on my tailgate and back side of doors . When I sanded the tail gate
A lazer flat cut and polish takes time regardlessly, you don't want to be in a rush
flow coat will leave a ring over time if you break threw the "flow coat " layers... there is a mechanical bond vrs a chemical bond... we stack clear 6 to 8 coats... but start cutting with 600... i dont car what anyone says... you can not cut urethane wave out with 1000 grit paper... you will have a high gloss ripple paint job if you cut with 1000.... arcylic blocks ...start at 600... finish grit is another argument.... cut compound leaves more coarse scratch then 3000 or 5000 .. so no need to sand that fine....
Let me suggest something, Fare'cla G3 Premium Compound. Stage 1+2 then stage 3. I cut with 1500 then buff from there. Even on black, no swirls.
That sounds like some good stuff...I will have to give it a try for sure. Thanks!
@@lowcountrylowdown9000 its the best I've ever used by far. Cuts super fast, and leaves no swirls. Shouldn't be possible but it works.
@@RedHammerBodyShop I ordered some from amazon earlier. It had some good reviews too. Always looking to branch out and try new things!! Thanks for the recommendation.
@@lowcountrylowdown9000 please let me know what you think of it. It's not cheap, but it lasts a good while.
@@RedHammerBodyShop yes sir....nothing is cheap anymore..LOL
Thank you for this, flow coating has seemed to be a fad that took off, had a professional painter tell me exactly what you proved and it is twice as much work, so unless you are burying art work, graphics that are done on top of a clear coat … why do it ? Burn thru is not worth it.
Exactly! 100% agree with doing it burying graphics or something.
Nice. What clear is this u used
Sikkens HS+.....very good clear
Cool video
Thanks
flow coat has a much better flatter finish off the gun. If you are getting paid by the hour on the job might as well stack the clear and cut and buff it.
Interesting..
5 coats of any clear especially some of these high solid clear. The painter really better be paying attention. Very easily turn into a big prob. And I mean wet coats not well dust first one then little more 2and and so on lol
agreed 100%
Flow coating is also a secondary go if you’re a shit painter and get sags and runs ..
Did you ever put it out in the sun and see what happened?
It's been sitting behind my shot, I used the fender for another video; however, I still think the test areas are fine, so I will go check and see. I doubt the sun did anything in that short of a time period.
Flow coating in my opinion is for show cars only less Orange peel and will weather better in the long term and will always look better and you couldn’t rub through unless you had a big night the night before 😂
Where is your shop located? Are younin yhe Charleston, SC area?
yes moncks corner area
For a show car paint it gives an optical illusion of depth the more flattens and flows layers you do. Flow coating has a place but also has a co$t 😂
low country, so are you in SC
yes sir born and raised.
Absolute waste of time. Do a extra coat and cut it flat with 1000 and buff it after you get back to 3000
You need to either eat or do video not both .
What?🤣
Why? He can do what he wants, who are you?!
Flow Coating is what the pros do for show cars and has been done for decades. You tried way too hard to look for this failure which is really unrealistic in properly done paint jobs. Im going to keep flow coating. It also gives a deeper gloss and shine to a paint job.
I saw the flow coat. In the image. Just before u buffed and polished. Before u add solvent. Watch vid. Easier to see on film. It’s 1” back from stack coat line
You're supposed to wait a couple of months for the clear to cure properly before spraying a flow coat.
Otherwise because the original clear isn't cured properly it absorbs the flow coat and can look "cloudy".
wow, I've never had that issue before and I've scuffed and recleared things the next day (not for flow coating but collision work screw up or too many runs on a collision job). I might have to research this one.
The ring is so subtle, I’m not sure you would see it unless the finish was mirror like the right side. Your lack of prep before buffing the left side may well have hidden the layer interfaces given how subtle they are.
I don’t think you need 5 coats unless you have really bad orange peel. Three coats should be enough for a normal cut and buff.
@@LTVoyager It is very subtle yes. I guess my concern is longevity if, and only if, one was to break through the top flow coat layer of clear during buffing operations. The approprate mil build isn't there if someone cuts it down too much. Most of the time guys who do this are knowledgable enough not to break or cut too much off. This situation would be similar to a "smart repair" burn in which isn't an advised practice.
@@LTVoyager Agree, I wanted to do 5 to exagerate the situation and also I wanted to see how my clear performed with stacking. Sikkens HS+ handled it like a boss with no solvent pops (even with the runs). On a basic paintjob we would normally do 3 which leaves room for cutting / buffing. Maybe 4 depending on situation or customer.