In this video, I make a chuck back plate for a plain back 5" 4 jaw chuck. This is an interesting bit of turning, because I needed to use the face plate for the initial turning steps.
Thank you so much! I have a project that I have to machine a pocket in a flange to hold and oil seal (and later a chuck backing plate) and the set-up you used will work for me! Thank you for your knowledge and sharing!
Lovely job, nice to see a face plate in use. You are so right about cast iron, I ended up using steel for my backplate just to keep the mess off the lathe.
Thanks for the video, I planned to mount a 5" independent 4 jaw chuck for my Harbor Freight 3-IN-1 Multipurpose Machine 44142. You gave me some interesting Ideas. Fortunately I don't have to make a adapter plat as the recessed area on the back of the 5" matches the raised boss on the HF exactly. I just need to cut four holes into the chuck to mount the bolts, hopefully without cutting into the jaw channels etc. Thanks again for the video I found it very helpful. Best Wishes n Blessings. Keith
Back in the day when I was an engineering apprentice, we were taught by all the tradesmen and from the technical insitute we studied at that cast iron needed no lubricant because of the high carbon content.
I recently purchased a new chuck for my South Ben lathe and was looking ideas about making a back plate , I have to say you do very good videos and very informative. Very neat and nicely done. Keep up the good videos.
Set-right chucks use radially mounted setscrews and a bit of radial clearance to fix the last couple thousandths and tenths of out of round. You can also just loosen the back plate a bit and tap the chuck body into round.
I have turned quite a bit of cast iron in my time and as is usual practice, never used oil to do so. Cast is full of carbon that self lubricates the cut, can cool with water and soluble oil but usually use that when grinding the stuff...
using oil when machining cast iron will make it hard to protect the ways on you lathe. you can machine cast iron dry and catch the dust and chips with a cloth covering the ways, then vacume the machine clean.
You are very right on that...!! No lubrication with cast iron. You may want to use a good mask while working cast iron, other ways you will have black nostrils for long time.
Right-o. Cast iron is self-lubricating, due to the graphite content. When you machine cast iron, the fine powder gets everywhere, and adding machine lube or oil makes it much, much harder to get out of all the nooks and crannies.
Great job - looks excellent! I have several backplates to make, and have been hoping to use Dura-Bar. If you don't mind me asking, where did you get yours and how much did it cost? Which type and formulation did you get (gray iron or ductile iron etc.)? Best, -Chris
Needed more oil (or even some oil to begin with!) While boring that iron puck out on the lathe! Obviously it worked out for you and you did a great job at it as well, just fyi, and i dunno why but it just really made me cringe watching you "raw-dog" that hole w no lube, initially. Haha ;) But seriously, great vid and you've given me the last bit of confidence needed for me to attempt my own now finally... so thank you! Cheers! - Jesse
Or are you supposed to machine cast iron dry?? I actually never have machined cast iron before myself so I apologize for the misinformed comment previously if that's the case?
@@jmac430a lot of people will tell you that all machining of cast iron should be done dry. I however have a slightly different view. I for example like to use a little bit of cutting oil when I'm drilling or tapping cast iron because it helps better contain the fine particles. For large amounts of material removal I do machine it dry.
that's a real beauty I watched this video because I'll be getting the 5 inch 4 jaw chuck too, and I need to make a back plate for it I don't have a mill though, do you think I can make it precisely enough on a drill press?
As long as your mounting holes have enough clearance, and you are decently accurate with your layout work, you should be able to do it on a drill press.
Hi Dan. Fantastic job on the backplate mate. I am inspired to do the same for my lathe. I am quite interested in the tool post you have. Did it come with the lathe or is it an after market quick change base? Cheers mate.
4 jaw chucks don't have a scroll, so you can actually just machine a ring that fits inside the chuck recess with an ID that matches the spindle boss and then drill and tap for 3 studs and your 4 jaw will bolt up just like the 3 jaw- done in 20 minutes and no adapter necessary.
SHOPMASTER/ SHOPTASK. i want to know would studs have enough strength to hold this chuck and withstand the load while operation? also how is he gonna mount this on the spindle nose
Great video! Thanks. You deserve some better machines though. A boley, weiler, schaublin lathe and a deckel or aciera milling machine would be more fun. But I must say that its more impressive with guys using what they have and make it work super good. I like seeing people taking a cheap ass chinese lathe or mill and scraping it to be almost as good as the premium machines. Just a thought. I’m about to make a plate just like that for a short taper flange to my 380mm 4jaw. Is it necessary to use cast iron for an adapter plate? Or will steele be good enough? On my other lathe I got the long taper fit. It seems more precise than those short taper that arent actual taper fitment at all. Its just a tapered guide for the chuck to slide on more easily, but the chuck could move within the tolerance of the center hole, unlike the long taper that always centers the chuck due to the taper fitment.
Sorry, I didn't respond sooner, I've under the weather for over a week. You can use just about any material you like, I've seen people use aluminum before. The main benefit of cast iron is that it's a good middle ground. It's easy to machine, it has good vibration damping qualities, and it is usually softer than what your spindle is made out of so you don't have to worry as much about damaging your spindle.
These two, though i want to upgrade my lathe. I got it right out of school and it was all I could afford at the time. www.harborfreight.com/8-inch-x-12-inch-precision-benchtop-lathe-44859.html www.machinetoolonline.com/PM-940M.html
same here with my 7x12,, tho I don't plan turning any tool steel larger than 2" and 304 stainless rods go fine. I do want to do like this for a larger chuck. it doesn't look hard to do now, step by step
Not sure about giving bolts lube considering their task, but I thought the same about not bolting up right. Good vid though. He made me think about keeping things clean as you go. A nice refresher! Cloth on the ways? Fatal? Paper will rip but cloth'll drag you in perhaps?
Is it just me it looks like you have the back plate you made bolted to the original chuck back plate that's threaded on the spindle instead of threading the new one to fit the spindle?
If i understand you correctly, yes. My spindle is designed for plain back chucks. The basically means the spindle has a boss used to locate the chuck, and then bolts are used to secure it to the spindle. This method is very common on small import machines, as it is cheaper to produce than a cam, thread, or taper lock.
The on in the video is a GOLDENROD 601 (spay tip), but I also have several with 600 series that have regular tips. They can be found at of a lot of supply houses and on amazon. www.amazon.com/GOLDENROD-601-Spray-Oiler-Straight/dp/B004RGXW3A/ www.amazon.com/Dutton-Lainson-DUT600-Rigid-Trigger-Capacity/dp/B008Y1PZD4/ The oil is mobil mobilmet 404 (OMICRON). It's not made anymore, but you can get it's replacement and if memory serves, that's mobilmet 426. www.amazon.com/Mobilmet-426-Cutting-Oil-103799/dp/B014V5LGNE
+Practical Metal The slug I used was 1" thick, you might need something thicker for a 10" chuck. It really comes down to the fasteners being used, and your spindle design.
How did you find the location of the first mounting hole on the adapter plate (the rest of the holes are easy once the adapter plate is on the rotary table)?
I centered the rotary table under the spindle with an indicol and indicator. I centered the adapter on the rotary table the same way buy indicating off the bored center hole. The all I had to do was offset the mill table the appropriate distance to for the bolt hole circle.
Almost anything will work, but cast iron offers a few advantages. 1) It's usually softer than you spindle, so you are less likely to damage your spindle when mounting the chuck. 2) It's easier to get a really good finish on the mounting surfaces, leading to more accuracy. 3) cast iron is better ad vibration dampening.
DAN thanx for the explanation, I have a 1936 atlas 10d, the only year they made them and according to the serial # it is the 3rd from the last one made I have never worked any cast iron, but that is good to know thanx again
I'm not a professional or an expert by any means, but what i was told from other people I trust made sense to me. You want to use something softer than what the spindle is made out of, that way if something goes wrong you are less likely to damage the spindle. I Have seen people use aluminum , but cast iron has better vibration dampening qualites.
Question: how did you know that the sawn side initially clamped to the faceplate was truly flat? 'Cos if it wasn't, then the side that you machined flat wouldn't be when you released it from the faceplate.
It doesn't need to be truly flat. It just needs to be flat enough that it can be securely held to the face plate for the first operation. If you want to check if a part is flat enough, the best way to do that imo is with some sandpaper adhered to an old or cheap surface plate. Just give the part a few lapping strokes and look at the scratch pattern left on lapped surface,
Hello Jonathan, I have a 2006ish version of the harbor freight 8x12 (really 8x14)! www.harborfreight.com/8-inch-x-12-inch-precision-benchtop-lathe-44859.html
try little machine shop for cheap chucks. www.littlemachineshop.com/products/product_category.php?category=566826475 The next step up in price is going to be a small Bison or Gator.
The big one is that it is much better at dampening vibrations, and thus can help minimize chatter. The other main benefit, is that it is softer then the spindle, so if it gets dinged up in use, it's less likely to damage the spindle.
Any ideas why chucks are so expensive? I know if i want to build DIY metal lathe i must be ready to pay around 200 euros for chuck. But the question is why they are expensive, even just few hundreds? Precision metal? Hard to make? I also pan to build metal lathe. And i got a store around here that sells chuck for 165€ new. I guess thats the only way. Back plate is the important piece.
Makes sense. Thank you for the reply. What do you think, is it possible to use flange like this with ball bearing (whole hub assembly from car)? thumbs.ebaystatic.com/d/l225/m/maeDu1OCD5RAM8ivsO87igw.jpg Mark the holes, drill and tighten up. i can center it with some rod tightened in chuck, for example with drive shaft piece, because it also has grooves at the end. I just want to build some experimental metal lathe, most difficult part is to make that connection between chuck and motor. Car wheel bearings should withstand the forces? If i think how much movement and stress the tire makes for the wheel bearing, when turning, on the bumps etc...
It would depend on your lathe and how it mounts chucks, as you need to have enough thickness to clear the mounting hardware. The best thing you can do is sit down and sketch something up on paper or in cad.
Hopefully Google translated what you are asking correctly. The gator Chuck I have is model #1-302-0500. I got it from www.zoro.com/ in 2015 for $177.86, but several places have it for sale online. I hope this helps.
I love your vids just the way I used to work I'm 61 now just memories thanks just great stuff 👍😊
Good work. We shared this video on our homemade tools forum this week 😎
Thank you!
wow, awesome job planning ahead for the through bolt holes. I would not have thought of that.
Thank you so much! I have a project that I have to machine a pocket in a flange to hold and oil seal (and later a chuck backing plate) and the set-up you used will work for me! Thank you for your knowledge and sharing!
Bruce Williams Glad to be of help!
Lovely job, nice to see a face plate in use. You are so right about cast iron, I ended up using steel for my backplate just to keep the mess off the lathe.
Awesome work thanks for the hold down tips
Thanks for the video, I planned to mount a 5" independent 4 jaw chuck for my Harbor Freight 3-IN-1 Multipurpose Machine 44142. You gave me some interesting Ideas. Fortunately I don't have to make a adapter plat as the recessed area on the back of the 5" matches the raised boss on the HF exactly. I just need to cut four holes into the chuck to mount the bolts, hopefully without cutting into the jaw channels etc. Thanks again for the video I found it very helpful.
Best Wishes n Blessings. Keith
Great faceplate! Great video!!
Back in the day when I was an engineering apprentice, we were taught by all the tradesmen and from the technical insitute we studied at that cast iron needed no lubricant because of the high carbon content.
+Michael St John You don't need cutting fluid, but it really helps keep the mess (CI grit/dust) under control.
Great job!!
Excellent work.
I recently purchased a new chuck for my South Ben lathe and was looking ideas about making a back plate , I have to say you do very good videos and very informative. Very neat and nicely done. Keep up the good videos.
Thanks a lot for the video... Now it's not so scary to start same project for my wm210v lathe...:)
How did it turn out? Going to be doing the same here soon.
Great project man 👍💫👍
Nice job!
Interesting stuff. Never used it before but it looked like cast iron turning on the lathe and like cast steel when you drilled it. Thanks.
Спасибо за полезное видео
Thanks for the video.
I’ve been considering going with a 5” 4 jaw as well, ...rather than just buying a 4” 4 jaw chuck.
Dang bro, way to get creative and make it work! nice job.
Inspirational.
Set-right chucks use radially mounted setscrews and a bit of radial clearance to fix the last couple thousandths and tenths of out of round. You can also just loosen the back plate a bit and tap the chuck body into round.
I have turned quite a bit of cast iron in my time and as is usual practice, never used oil to do so. Cast is full of carbon that self lubricates the cut, can cool with water and soluble oil but usually use that when grinding the stuff...
Clever!
using oil when machining cast iron will make it hard to protect the ways on you lathe. you can machine cast iron dry and catch the dust and chips with a cloth covering the ways, then vacume the machine clean.
You are very right on that...!! No lubrication with cast iron. You may want to use a good mask while working cast iron, other ways you will have black nostrils for long time.
Right-o. Cast iron is self-lubricating, due to the graphite content. When you machine cast iron, the fine powder gets everywhere, and adding machine lube or oil makes it much, much harder to get out of all the nooks and crannies.
Miguel Navarro 90
Mi garba
Spot drilling with an actual spot drill instead of a center drill? Subscribed :)
very nice
saubere Arbeit!
Great job - looks excellent! I have several backplates to make, and have been hoping to use Dura-Bar. If you don't mind me asking, where did you get yours and how much did it cost? Which type and formulation did you get (gray iron or ductile iron etc.)? Best, -Chris
+bx2200 I got it from www.speedymetals.com, 5" diameter by 1" thick was $11, plush shipping.
Great-thanks. I've bought from them several times before.
Needed more oil (or even some oil to begin with!) While boring that iron puck out on the lathe! Obviously it worked out for you and you did a great job at it as well, just fyi, and i dunno why but it just really made me cringe watching you "raw-dog" that hole w no lube, initially. Haha ;)
But seriously, great vid and you've given me the last bit of confidence needed for me to attempt my own now finally... so thank you!
Cheers!
- Jesse
Or are you supposed to machine cast iron dry?? I actually never have machined cast iron before myself so I apologize for the misinformed comment previously if that's the case?
@@jmac430a lot of people will tell you that all machining of cast iron should be done dry. I however have a slightly different view. I for example like to use a little bit of cutting oil when I'm drilling or tapping cast iron because it helps better contain the fine particles. For large amounts of material removal I do machine it dry.
What kind of machining fluid are you using? I always thought cast iron i supposed to be machined dry.
It should be
that's a real beauty
I watched this video because I'll be getting the 5 inch 4 jaw chuck too, and I need to make a back plate for it
I don't have a mill though, do you think I can make it precisely enough on a drill press?
As long as your mounting holes have enough clearance, and you are decently accurate with your layout work, you should be able to do it on a drill press.
Hi Dan.
Fantastic job on the backplate mate. I am inspired to do the same for my lathe.
I am quite interested in the tool post you have. Did it come with the lathe or is it an after market quick change base?
Cheers mate.
The toolpost is an aftermarket one sold specifically for 8x14 lathes by Lathemaster tools. Unfortunately Lathemaster isn't in business anymore.
4 jaw chucks don't have a scroll, so you can actually just machine a ring that fits inside the chuck recess with an ID that matches the spindle boss and then drill and tap for 3 studs and your 4 jaw will bolt up just like the 3 jaw- done in 20 minutes and no adapter necessary.
SHOPMASTER/ SHOPTASK. i want to know would studs have enough strength to hold this chuck and withstand the load while operation? also how is he gonna mount this on the spindle nose
@@josephinelourdesjayarani2111 Loads are radial and supported by the boss, the studs just keep it from falling off.
Great video! Thanks. You deserve some better machines though. A boley, weiler, schaublin lathe and a deckel or aciera milling machine would be more fun. But I must say that its more impressive with guys using what they have and make it work super good. I like seeing people taking a cheap ass chinese lathe or mill and scraping it to be almost as good as the premium machines. Just a thought. I’m about to make a plate just like that for a short taper flange to my 380mm 4jaw. Is it necessary to use cast iron for an adapter plate? Or will steele be good enough? On my other lathe I got the long taper fit. It seems more precise than those short taper that arent actual taper fitment at all. Its just a tapered guide for the chuck to slide on more easily, but the chuck could move within the tolerance of the center hole, unlike the long taper that always centers the chuck due to the taper fitment.
Sorry, I didn't respond sooner, I've under the weather for over a week.
You can use just about any material you like, I've seen people use aluminum before. The main benefit of cast iron is that it's a good middle ground. It's easy to machine, it has good vibration damping qualities, and it is usually softer than what your spindle is made out of so you don't have to worry as much about damaging your spindle.
Great video. I will definitely be watching more. What lathe and mill type do you have? I'm looking for them for my shop. Thanks
These two, though i want to upgrade my lathe. I got it right out of school and it was all I could afford at the time.
www.harborfreight.com/8-inch-x-12-inch-precision-benchtop-lathe-44859.html
www.machinetoolonline.com/PM-940M.html
same here with my 7x12,, tho I don't plan turning any tool steel larger than 2" and 304 stainless rods go fine.
I do want to do like this for a larger chuck. it doesn't look hard to do now, step by step
its a great video, but i need to know how are you going to mount this chuck you made with the spindle nose?
The studs on the back plate go into the spindle face, and are held in place with nuts.
Nice video. You lubed the two surfaces, but not the bolts? and you didn't use a proper cross tightening pattern ;)
Not sure about giving bolts lube considering their task, but I thought the same about not bolting up right. Good vid though. He made me think about keeping things clean as you go. A nice refresher! Cloth on the ways? Fatal? Paper will rip but cloth'll drag you in perhaps?
I would have bolted the stock to face plate. Couple of fixture holes wouldn't matter.
I am curious as to how you determined your slug to be cast iron. Those chips from drilling look much more like cast steel.
Technically it's durabar and I know that because it was a special order.
You could have bored the cast iron and turned the circumference and much of the piece on a mandrel
Is it just me it looks like you have the back plate you made bolted to the original chuck back plate that's threaded on the spindle instead of threading the new one to fit the spindle?
chuck smalfus it's you, the original Chuck didn't need a plate, as it was designed to fit the spindle directly.
So the spindle ends on a back plate?Not a threaded part?
If i understand you correctly, yes. My spindle is designed for plain back chucks. The basically means the spindle has a boss used to locate the chuck, and then bolts are used to secure it to the spindle.
This method is very common on small import machines, as it is cheaper to produce than a cam, thread, or taper lock.
You should cast iron dry. You’re literally crushing and breaking as you cut. A lot different than steel
Where did you get the oil can and what kind of oil did you use?
The on in the video is a GOLDENROD 601 (spay tip), but I also have several with 600 series that have regular tips. They can be found at of a lot of supply houses and on amazon.
www.amazon.com/GOLDENROD-601-Spray-Oiler-Straight/dp/B004RGXW3A/
www.amazon.com/Dutton-Lainson-DUT600-Rigid-Trigger-Capacity/dp/B008Y1PZD4/
The oil is mobil mobilmet 404 (OMICRON). It's not made anymore, but you can get it's replacement and if memory serves, that's mobilmet 426.
www.amazon.com/Mobilmet-426-Cutting-Oil-103799/dp/B014V5LGNE
dans-hobbies
I have a 10 inch 4 jaw I need to do this with. How thick is your slug?
+Practical Metal The slug I used was 1" thick, you might need something thicker for a 10" chuck. It really comes down to the fasteners being used, and your spindle design.
How did you find the location of the first mounting hole on the adapter plate (the rest of the holes are easy once the adapter plate is on the rotary table)?
I centered the rotary table under the spindle with an indicol and indicator. I centered the adapter on the rotary table the same way buy indicating off the bored center hole. The all I had to do was offset the mill table the appropriate distance to for the bolt hole circle.
Good luck
Just for fun what was the TIR of the chuck, or did you check it?
CH Perdue is that the runout of the diameter of the chuck?
why are using cast iron? will mild steel work? good vid THANX!
Almost anything will work, but cast iron offers a few advantages.
1) It's usually softer than you spindle, so you are less likely to damage your spindle when mounting the chuck.
2) It's easier to get a really good finish on the mounting surfaces, leading to more accuracy.
3) cast iron is better ad vibration dampening.
DAN thanx for the explanation, I have a 1936 atlas 10d, the only year they made them and according to the serial # it is the 3rd from the last one made I have never worked any cast iron, but that is good to know thanx again
Question from a non machinist, Why Case Iron and not steel or billet aluminum?
I'm not a professional or an expert by any means, but what i was told from other people I trust made sense to me.
You want to use something softer than what the spindle is made out of, that way if something goes wrong you are less likely to damage the spindle.
I Have seen people use aluminum , but cast iron has better vibration dampening qualites.
Dan, I know I can find the answer by going through maybe 50 hours of videos, so I ask - What lathe are you using?
I have a 2005 version of this lathe.
www.harborfreight.com/8-inch-x-12-inch-precision-benchtop-lathe-44859.html
Are you recording in a gymnasium?
Question: how did you know that the sawn side initially clamped to the faceplate was truly flat? 'Cos if it wasn't, then the side that you machined flat wouldn't be when you released it from the faceplate.
It doesn't need to be truly flat. It just needs to be flat enough that it can be securely held to the face plate for the first operation.
If you want to check if a part is flat enough, the best way to do that imo is with some sandpaper adhered to an old or cheap surface plate. Just give the part a few lapping strokes and look at the scratch pattern left on lapped surface,
Nice camera and lights. A phone set to record audio in your shirt pocket will pick up your voice quite cleanly.
sheet metal covers and trays
Hello,what make of lathe do you have?
Hello Jonathan,
I have a 2006ish version of the harbor freight 8x12 (really 8x14)!
www.harborfreight.com/8-inch-x-12-inch-precision-benchtop-lathe-44859.html
Ok Thanks!
I bought 618lathe and trying to find 3jawchuck not doing well
try little machine shop for cheap chucks.
www.littlemachineshop.com/products/product_category.php?category=566826475
The next step up in price is going to be a small Bison or Gator.
Yeah, Chris @ Little Machine Shop is a really cool guy too, so anytime I can I give him my business.
Where did you get that oil can that squirts?
This is the one I have.
www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004RGXW3A/
Why use cast iorn as a back plate? Why not use steel?
The big one is that it is much better at dampening vibrations, and thus can help minimize chatter.
The other main benefit, is that it is softer then the spindle, so if it gets dinged up in use, it's less likely to damage the spindle.
How much run out do you have
If you mean on the back-plate, it was basically zero, because it was machined in place on the spindle.
Should of drilled a hole in the test slug and used it to hold everything together.
Any ideas why chucks are so expensive? I know if i want to build DIY metal lathe i must be ready to pay around 200 euros for chuck. But the question is why they are expensive, even just few hundreds? Precision metal? Hard to make?
I also pan to build metal lathe. And i got a store around here that sells chuck for 165€ new.
I guess thats the only way. Back plate is the important piece.
The big reason is because they are such a low run part, very few people are ever going to buy one.
Makes sense. Thank you for the reply.
What do you think, is it possible to use flange like this with ball bearing (whole hub assembly from car)?
thumbs.ebaystatic.com/d/l225/m/maeDu1OCD5RAM8ivsO87igw.jpg
Mark the holes, drill and tighten up. i can center it with some rod tightened in chuck, for example with drive shaft piece, because it also has grooves at the end.
I just want to build some experimental metal lathe, most difficult part is to make that connection between chuck and motor.
Car wheel bearings should withstand the forces? If i think how much movement and stress the tire makes for the wheel bearing, when turning, on the bumps etc...
It would depend on your lathe and how it mounts chucks, as you need to have enough thickness to clear the mounting hardware. The best thing you can do is sit down and sketch something up on paper or in cad.
Colinfda
Посадочное место надо делать на + 0.02мм
I need to make the same in my lathe, can you tell me the final thickness of your backplate?
I don't remember the exact thickness but it was somewhere around 0.7 inches.
der interessant
Quecabeza.bienpenzado
Dove comperare pezzi
Hopefully Google translated what you are asking correctly.
The gator Chuck I have is model #1-302-0500. I got it from www.zoro.com/ in 2015 for $177.86, but several places have it for sale online.
I hope this helps.
am amazed at uguys how much money u have tools machines but say to much money for a hub lol
It was not possible to buy a back-plate to mount the chuck to my lathe, so I had to make one.
+dans-hobbies ok I don't understand that was it
You don't buy a lathe so that you have to buy parts for it.
You buy a lathe to make parts on.
Cast iron no lube
Tm
sahil
VIDEO is hard to listen too with the echo or reverberation. Sounds like your in a can.
I've gotten much better camera gear since I filmed this video.
far too fast