WTH Is Wrong with Lincoln?
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 16 เม.ย. 2023
- #lincoln
Lincolns sales in 2022 fell to a level they last saw in the Great Recession! Why?
Well, I think decades of corporate mismanagement and under investment combined with leaning into a heritage that their target buyer doesn't care about, has them being overlooked in spite of good products.
However, the Luxury class isn't just made on 'good products', but a sense of Momentum and an eye on the future - and Lincoln doesn't seem to have that at all!
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I'm 48, and in my adult years have had Volvo, Lexus, two Buicks, and two Lincolns, and the Lincolns were my favorite. I like how they're selling old school luxury. Lincoln tried to chase BMW, Audi, etc, and failed. I know the US is obsessed with SUV/CUVs, but to me, not offering a sedan is a huge non-starter for me. I want a 4 door sedan.
Agreed, no full size sedan with a ultra soft suspension, no care.
Ah, great point. Like Cadillac, Lincoln tried to chase BMW & Audi, but did it with less models and not as well.
when Lincoln changed to their current ideal of "American Luxury", I loved it! But sales aren't following.
Jon with all due respect, Lincoln isn't offering American luxury in their product lineup. American luxury is big, layzboy seats, naturally aspirated engines, floaty suspensions, easy to get in and out of, with small rims and massive sidewalls with a low speed rating. The current Lincoln lineup is falling because it satisfies no one. The massive rims with high speed rating tires, firm seats, firm suspension, powered by underbuilt turbo engines irritate the traditional American luxury market and it doesn't go far enough for the Euro crowd.
The problem is Lincoln doesn't have a purpose. It refuses to offer something that the market isn't already offering. There are a lot of half-baked luxury offerings already in the market. They need to offer a type of luxury that is not being offered currently. They need to go back to true American luxury again. Is it going to be a big market? Probably not, but it's a gap that's not being fulfilled currently. More and more people all the time lament the loss of comfortable vehicles. The automotive press won't admit to it because they want everything to be about slalom times, quarter mile times, and other things that young people care about. When you have a back problem where Little seams that look like no big deal causes a pain that feels like someone with a sharp lid from a aluminum can being driven on your back on the most minded scenes of the road you care about comfort regardless of how cool or how lame it may seem.
Think of it this way. Your average teenage boy dreams of having Air Jordans and if his mother suggests a pair of New balance shoes, he groans. When you get to be middle-aged, you grow out of the desire to have basketball shoes as you want something that's going to be comfortable so you have to go with orthopedic shoes. This is the same principle.
It would have been nice for Lincoln to have figured out how to compete with Mercedes and BMW back in the day and I agree with you that they would have been much smarter to have invested the money in Lincoln as opposed to buying a bunch of failed brands and make a half baked effort. But from here, the place to start is to focus on improving the lineup and to stick with it.
Lincoln did well in the malaise era by sticking to American bigness. They need a glorious Town Car and a Mark 9 lux coup. No one would be completing with them.
i am a sedan guy too
Lincoln needs a Lincoln enthusiast or two on it's sr. level team. Truly.
@Axelafy you're thinking of BMW. Or Cadillac. Or whatever it is that trolls buy these days.
@Axelafy it looks like me. Lol
Matthew McConaughey ruined them too. When he went super duper some, that firmed me off Lincoln. Just like the DNC ruined JEEP
They hire non-car people with so -so design.
If you don't really care about the brand and it's history, it's just another (potential) money making venture. A good example of a car company that gets it right? Mazda. Another? Cadillac.
The Towncar was a HUGE seller, when they dropped it so did their sales. When you have a winner on your hands, you improve on it as Cadillac did with the DeVille not discard it.
@Arturo Guerra-Modragon
The Towncar was a big fleet seller. They were still not capturing the market they wanted...the more upscale/wealthier and younger crowd
The Towncar was great but the last couple of generations had a lots of problems due to cheap parts like bad timing chain and tensioners, crappy fuel pumps, crappy rear axles, and the plastic intake manifolds from1996 to the end were junk. Also, the last generation rode rougher than full size truck. They need to bring back the 1995 soft ride and reliability. Eliminate the ghetto low profile tires and large "donk" rims, I want a luxury car, not a rappers delight.
@@muziklvr7776 Then you should have been buying a Lexus LS 460 in that time frame...Much better built and more luxurious than a Lincoln Town Car
I almost went into more discussion on the Town Car but decided against it.
First, the platform for the TC was going away, so there was nothing to build it off of.
Second, while it remained a good seller, many times that was for 'fleet' vehicles like limos.
@@turnne I'm a huge fan of Toyota but I got a mint, garaged creampuff 1995 Towncar from the original owner with 70K miles that serviced it at the dealer for $3K. Also, the Lexus 400 series does not ride a smooth as a mid 90's Lincoln. It's much better built than a Lincoln though.
I'll never shed a tear for any company that abandons cars completely in favor of rolling boxes.
They got rid of their cars. That was their first mistake.
HOLDING ON TO OUR TWO 1979'S TILL GOD CALLS ME HOME
thats why the continental sold so well😂
The Zephyr was a nice car. Wishing that Lincoln would bring it back. Mismanagement at Ford is a bigger problem than many people might think.
They did but only in China.
The MKZ? My grandmother owned one back in 2012 and I was OBSESSED.
@@cloed0ll The new Zephyr is a better looking sedan imo. The mkx never looked right to me. The back is all sharp and crisp, the front has those odd curves that just don't match. Doesn't flow as a whole.
I still love driving a large sedan that has a big trunk. I have been driving Lincoln Panther Platform cars since 1986, and my current daily driver is a 2002 Town Car. It was sad that Lincoln, Mercury, and Ford discontinued the Panther Platform cars after the 2011 model year.
Absolutely! See my post if you come back!
Ford erred in confining their Panther chassis cars to 4 door sedans. They should have also offered hardtops, convertibles, a Ford 2 door sedan, and a station wagon. Too hell with CAFE. People would have paid the extra money for them.
What would have been better: invest in an all-new body-on-frame Panther platform for 2011 *or* enlarge the Mustang or (Australian) Falcon unibody platform in length & width to underpin the next generation of monocoque full-size sedans? I don't fully appreciate the advantage of a sedan being body-on-frame, though I appreciate that all-new utes and pickup trucks like the Ranger and F150 are still developed using this layout. Australians mostly made do with our unibody Falcon/Fairlane and Commodore/Caprice, which are mid-sized sedans by US standards. I appreciate the US market mostly rejected the Australian-made unibody Chevy Caprice however and considered it an inadequate replacement for the B-body Chevy Caprice.
@@TassieLorenzo Cops loved the Australian made Caprice, but it was only ever going to be for law enforcement only. I think if it had have gone across as a luxury vehicle the domestic market may have liked it, particularly if they put an LS2/3 in it like HSV did. I have a Grange, best big car I've had, though a bit cheap and tacky inside... If only it got the Chinese Royaum interior..
@@TassieLorenzo The biggest reasons American body-on-frame cars are awesome are the chassis strength and ease of maintenance. Oh, you hit something accidentally? Don't sweat it! Just replace a body panel or two and you're back on the road because there is no unibody to warp, weaken, or bend. If a unibody vehicle's "frame" has been compromised, you might as well just scrap the car.
I love the new Continental. I just wish I could afford one.
I'll just continue enjoying my Grand Marquis until then.
For horrific grills look at Lexus!
I agree with you. If a Lexus hits something at 5 mph with that large grill, there would probably be a lot of damage to the Lexus.
If I hit something at 5 mph in my 2002 Town Car that has a good bumper, there would probably be very little damage to my car.
I can't look at them. They're too ugly.
They also got rid of the sedans...i have a MKZ and 2020 was the last year they made them. I don't want to have a SUV...so why they discontinued the sedans is a mystery to me.
I'm 36 years old, and I currently own a 2017 Lincoln Continental... Best car ever owned... had a Town Car before that, and that was an excellent vehicle.. I love the Lincoln Motor Company.
Lincoln needs a sedan! Just bought a Cadillac CT5. I wish there was a Lincoln sedan to compete.
In 1984 I was 25, and rented a new(then) 1984 Town Car for a special occasion. Absolutely fell in love with it. The 5.0 liter V8 got surprisingly exceptional fuel mileage and the car was well -appointed and comfortable. I'd love to have another to restore. And the 1972 Mark IV would be another that I'd be elated to restore from the ground up if I had the time and garage space to do it. Those were CARS!
I owned a 1984 Town Car for years, also had an 85 Grand Marquis and 85 Crown Victoria. They all had the 5.0 and I loved them all.
Ever since the onslaught of the mkz series, I have felt Lincoln is finished, and needs to have one outstanding 4 door sedan , rear wheel drive. This "New" Lincoln would be one model only, and equipped with every imaginable device for ease and pleasure of driving. It would be priced to cater to the young executive, as well as the senior ceo. It's name would have to be something no Lincoln has ever had before, and for that I chose, the Lincoln Colinard". Pronounced "call la nard".
Ford and Lincoln need to pursue reliability and build quality.
Cars that are engineered to last are still selling...
I'm 74 and my mother bought a 2001 Lexus RX300 for 30K. It's been my daily driver since 2018 when I went to Florida to pick it up. I used it to replace a 2012 Navigator I paid 56K new. On the Lexus besides a ECU module replacement, battery, tires, and oil changes it's been completely reliable, comfortable, problem free. I bought my wife a 2017 Lexus RX350 for 51,355 and I believe both cars will out live us. I was a Lincoln man for 30 year's and I promise you my local Lincoln service manager was on my Christmas list the whole time.
I'm also a big fan of Lincoln and it hurts to see them where they are in sales despite a decent lineup. They arguably have the most competitive lineup for the last 15 years although their all time high was about 25 yrs ago when they had a full lineup with the Navigator, Town Car, Mark VIII and Continental and they all had a very decent powertrain and reliabilty.. That's why they sold so well
The LS was a nice addition a couple years later but they missed the mark and after that failure you could tell Ford stopped injecting enough resources to Lincoln. The great recession and money losing premium brands Ford owned back then (earning money with new owners, though) didn't help either.
That was, until 5-6 years ago when they got the Continental, current Navigator, 2nd gen MKX/Nautilus and so on. They are arguably better finished with nicer interiors than a Cadillac, Acura or Infiniti. It may have been just a little to late, though. Many longtime Lincoln customers had long moved on or passed.
Personally I think Ford missed yet another opportunity to bring momentum to Lincoln by pulling off from the $500M investment they had on Rivian which if I'm right included an EV platform they were going to use for future Lincoln vehicles. They just don't know what to do with their premium brand which is such a shame.
Lincoln needs to bring back the Town Car (and still keep that solid Panther platform), the Mark LT, the Mark VIII, the LS, and the new Zephyr.
where the hell is their sedan? I'm old, I do not need nor want a damn SUV! Do you want me to continue to buy your cars? Get me what I want and I'll buy it. It's tough out there for us old guys, we've still got 20-25 years of car buying in me, there's a market that no one is exploiting. Lexii are so...well Pedestrian, everyone has one. I want my Lincoln. Get with the program. it may be etched on a stone tablet, but still, there's a market. Don't give me a refined Ford, give me a Lincoln.
Their sedan is in China. :(
By dropping the Continental and the MKZ. Lincoln removed a decent part of their cash stream combining approximately 20,000 sedan sales annually. The handsome luxury Continental is an amazing car with technology, ride comfort and a classy overall design, while the MKZ filled the mid size class with an outstanding luxury sedan that had a tight rear seat, but beautiful looks and body lines. Both sedans offered decent performance and a comfortable cockpit. I don't understand why Ford invested so much money developing these excellent luxury, technology filled performance sedans only to end them. Lincoln customers were normally repeat customers regarding the Town Car that until its final years had sales averaging over 50,000 annually. It's time to rethink the Continental sedan lineup and bring them back to the US. Actually the same applies to Ford with a redesigned Fusion and Taurus.
I loved the Panther Town Car! I rear airbag suspension was cozy. It's just a total disappointment Lincoln doesn't have the Z sedan in America.
Great video. Alan Mulally was the leader at Ford and decided to spin off and end their association with Jaguar, Aston Martin, Land Rover and Mercury. Capital was to be spent focusing on two brands: Ford and Lincoln. Ford was to follow the Toyota / Lexus business model. Lincoln was to move to separate standalone dealerships and provide luxury products with a premium buying experience. Twenty years later Lincoln has been turned into Mercury and a Lincoln owner can share a bag of popcorn with Joe and Josie six pack while they are getting their Edge serviced.
True Dat.
Don't forget Ford sold off Volvo too.
Agree. I have a 2020 Aviator. When I call for my dealer to pick up and service my Lincoln, I get some mild “attitude “ because I’m using the Lincoln Concierge service that Lincoln advertised. I like the vehicle but dealership experience is less than satisfactory.
That is correct. I am in my 70's , I do not want to stretch my body to get into a truck. I want a nice comfortable SEDAN. Re introduce the Continental
@@JT-fq2bl etc the holdings of volvo ,volvo is geely
I agree with you…AGAIN! Lincoln is the “Infiniti” of America. I think they need wise management, because the cars look drop dead gorgeous. I find it interesting how the two brands with the most beautiful cars are the ones that are suffering (Lincoln and Infiniti). I think Lincoln needs to work on advertising and a new Town Car. Infiniti just needs an interior update along with an all new Q70 and a couple EV variants of their cars.🤞
Infiniti is actually doing quite well …Lincoln is hobbled by the FORD crappy quality issues
@@chrisvig123 That’s good to know Infiniti is doing well.
@@chrisvig123 Ford is way more reliable than Nissan.
The 2017 Lincoln Continental was certainly worth a mention. With all the media hype around the 2016 concept car, this vehicle helped shape the public’s perception of Lincoln. They only sold 30,000 vehicles and mostly to livery companies.
I am 38 and I for one think it’s nice that Lincoln has stayed with the somewhat traditional idea of what an AMERICAN luxury car is. Like you said, Cadillac is more BMW than Cadillac now, I think it is very sad that the American car is becoming more and more extinct even among American car brands. I like the Navigator, but no way am I going to pay $90+ thousand for a vehicle.
idk ct6 was/is a pretty classic american sedan, but managed to be BMW and jaguar competitor. escalade is a pinnacle of luxury suv, although a bit insane
You are right - they need a sedan (car) and so does Buick, but Ford and GM have basically stopped making cars giving the market share to Toyota and Honda
When the Mark 6 was introduced in 1980 it was a magical car, Keyless entry,Digital Dashboard, Designer series, Statis Symbol for sure, the shark gills , the RollsRoyce Grille, Amazing car.
I'm sticking with my 1997 Lincoln Town Car Signature for as long as I can. Best car I ever owned.
I do share and support every word you say and love the brand very much. Driven Conti Mk VII in 90s, drive Navigator Black Label now. Dreaming to buy Mk III one day as a weekender. Pity to see how brand’s management got lost in strategy, waisting great heritage. Thank you for comprehensive analysis, Jon.
I agree. I remember when Lincoln was an upscale version of Ford with Mercury somewhere in between the two divisions. My oldest cousin once owned a 1973 Continental 4 door. It was huge! I guess when you're 10 yrs. old, most cars looked gigantic! What the hell happened to Lincoln? There's nothing luxurious or attractive about Lincoln today.
It's best years were when it was it's own car, not a "corporate" entity.
At one time, Lincoln’s owned the luxury car market.
I'm a younger guy and a Cadillac V-car owner - while I think the current Lincoln lineup looks nice (and I liked their brief Continental revival), I wouldn't even consider cross-shopping Lincoln were I in the market for a new car. 20 years ago, I'd have said the same about Cadillac but with the V-series and the brand's concerted effort to shift toward non-Octogenarian buyers, Caddy's image was revitalized enough in my eyes that I've bought several since. I would honestly love to see Lincoln make a comeback considering the brand's history
I haven't watched this yet, but my guess as to why Lincoln went down starts with alphanumeric nomenclature. If a car doesn't have a proper name from a company that used to use proper names, then they're quickly forgotten. Continental, or Town Car Cartier Edition, sounds a lot more appropriate for a luxury offering than whatever they use now. Acura ditched their names, and to this day, I have no idea what their model line up consists of, other than the newly reintroduced Civic/Integra.
Several years ago, Lincoln did wise up and give proper names to their SUV lineup, but those offerings were little more than warmed over Ford offerings. And the Navigator doesn't offer a V8. I'm not interested in a wheezy twin turbo V6.
Finally, in my opinion, they need a proper large, luxury sedan offering. Properly named, with a V8, and full frame in order to appease the livery business.
Those are my guesses as to what could help them get out of the hole they managed to fall into.
Personally, if I ran Lincoln, the division would be like Lexus was in the beginning, with 2 car offerings. The SUVs wouldn't have a 4 cylinder in sight. V6's with hybrid options available on the smaller offerings. The Navigator would have an easy running, low stress iteration of the 6.2 V8. People at that price point know what they're purchasing, and gas prices aren't their #1 concern.
AND, OF COURSE, proper marketing and advertising that shows the luxuriousness of their offerings, concentrating on quality, accommodations, etc. Like they did at their peak.
I hope you enjoy it when you watch it. :) Because I agree with you here (even though I didn't touch on all you did)
@All Cars with Jon now that I've watched it, I also agree that it comes down to the disinterested executives. Without vision, drive, passion, and desire to push a car from concept to rolling off the production line, you got yourself Lincoln. With it, you have Lexus, Lucid, Tesla, Escalades, and a smattering of other modern Cadillac sedans. People will line up to buy cars that display passion, quality, and desirability. GM has a tiny bit of it left..not much but some. Lincoln: zero. IF the Navigator had a V8, if they had a flagship sedan, and IF they could put together a sporty varient (like the Mark VII LSC) then they'd interest me like they did when I was 12. A family friend had a brand new 1984 Continental MKVII LSC and I was blown away. Button, displays, comfortable seats, great ride and a smooth V8, he also had his cell phone set up to work wirelessly, IN 1984! AND...it LOOKED the part. Great memories. I can't see a kid getting into any Lincoln of the last 15 years, except MAYBE the current Aviator and Navigator, and say wow as far as interiors and ride.
43yr old here…I legit saw a Corsair the other day and thought about how I’m sad for Lincoln. I want to see more. I’ve loved Lincoln forever and want to see more.
Great video! Right on target! Lincoln's lineup, besides the Navigator, can barely be differentiated from a distance.
Lincoln and Buick share a similar problem. Each has a history of building substantial and at time crowd pleasing cars that keep the brands image grounded, but with cars gone from the lineup what they stand for is unclear. I am not suggesting that both produce a full line up, but at least one standard bearer of a car would be nice.
So when I worked at Ford from 07-09 you couldn’t just walk in and buy a new Town Car. At least here in Canada, you had to have a fleet account to order them new. It was the same with Crown Vic’s and Marquis too. They were only available to the public as second hand fleet vehicles.
I didn't know that! In the U.S., the Town Cars were available directly to customers at Lincoln until their discontinuation in 2011, and the last few years were all Canadian built so idk why they wouldn't sell them to consumers in Canada.
I must say I was shocked to see an early 80's continental in this vid! Givenchy special edition...my father had the exact same car!!!😮
Jon, this is a very timely video as I looked at a Lincoln Corsair yesterday and loved it! I was cross shopping compact luxury SUVs (RDX, QX50, NX, Envision) and only took a look at the Corsair because it was highly recommended by consumer reports. The Lincoln was the best hands down in terms of value, driving experience, and size.
"value, driving experience, and size." Ford products always do well at those things! 🙂 Does the quality hold up over time though? There seem to be a number of buyers burnt by the Ecoboost engines from the late 10's.
My grandmother used to buy a new town car about every 4 years, but since it got discontinued she's been using her 2011 ever since so that's an example of the buyers they lost
I've owned Lincolns for years. I'd love to buy another, but Lincoln no longer makes the Town Car, forcing me to keep the one I have. "Yeah, but Lincoln had the Continental" But the Continental wasn't a body-on-frame Town car with rear-drive and a V8. Lincoln is turning its back on its very loyal customer base with their dismissal of the Town Car.
Not everyone wants a SUV or small engines.
HOLDING ON TO OUR TWO 1979'S TILL GOD CALLS ME HOME
I purchased a low mileage 2017 Lincoln MKZ Black Label 3.0 AWD Twin Turbo a few months ago and absolutely love it. I'm hoping they bring back the sedan
Good insights. Discontinuance of Mercury disrupted the 'context' which supported the Lincolnesc atmosphere that surrounded and gave context to the brand.
I'm 46 and just purchased my first Lincoln. 2023 Aviator Black label. Absolutely love it!! I'm a Ford guy so naturally when I wanted something more luxurious I went to Lincoln.. but you don't hear much about them. I want to see them survive and thrive! I still think they should have improved the new Continental and kept it around!
Absolutely agree with what you say. They stopped making the Town Car 12 years ago. I had 3 of them over the years.
I'm a Realtor, so I drive around a lot and I still see so many of them, every day. Why? Because maintained well they last
FOREVER. Same as the other Panther cars Mercury Grand Marquis and Ford Crown Vic's. Abandoning that segment
was one of the greatest mistakes Ford ever made. Apart from making the Edsel LOL.
My 'day job' is as a Realtor as well. I don't want an SUV, so Honda Accord it is.
The Edsel was no mistake - the timing was just wrong . Watch the cheap quips, or the Horse Collar Club will be after you - - -
@@lazyrrr2411 Well.... 'bad timing' still means 'mistake'. :)
@@AllCarswithJon Bad Busines doesn't equate to a Bad Car ... i'll only agree that the erstwile Edsel was not for everyone😉
We've had a few P73 platform Vics.
The SUVs are not good for longevity.
My nephew has a few of them. When our Vics get long in the tooth, we will send the cars to the demolition derby at the County Fair.
One problem we did have was with our first Vic. We had a trailer attached and drove a long drive.
But when we disconnected the car, its bumper was higher, and the hitch got lowered.
I am the anti-customer so I know I am never the target buyer, but I just do not like the modern take on luxury. Give me a early to mid 70's Lincoln everyday of the week and I will be happy. I don't like screens, buzzers, bells, lights, thick pillars, high lift over rear ends, black finished wheels, driving nannies, or any of that. About the only thing I would want is cell phone integration (still don't need/want a screen) and wireless cell phone charging. Both of those items can be seamlessly retro fitted into a classic American Luxury car. Rather than spend the 60-100K on a new Lincoln, I'll buy a nice classic.
I am 49, but I was really hoping that "LUNCOLN" would have jumped on the "retro styling" they had in 1978...
What a beautiful car they "could have" designed.
The Mk IIV was the most beautiful, but only offered the "longwinded" 302cc V-8 at the time with poor "Air Suspension" that was not reliable...
I agree 100%. The newest Lincolns are unquestionably class-competitive if not class leading. The prices, however, are utterly insane. Just like every other luxury brand, the resale value is horrific and probably why the best-selling Lincolns are USED Lincolns. Dropping all non-suv vehicles was incredibly shortsighted and essentially eliminated a huge portion of their potential market.
Jon, very good insightful video. Thank you.
USA Auto manufacturers in general miss the mark both ways, in what they release and what they discontinue. On the release side, there are still a lot of people, including myself, that don't want an SUV and that limits them from what's available. On the discontinued side, most memorable to me was that for a few years after Lincoln had dropped the LS, I kept meeting people that wanted to aspire to an LS, hoping to find a good used one. The discontinuation of models that people like causes me to question if a version of greed is taking place among the USA manufacturers, in that if a model falls short of their financial projection, they just discontinue it even if it's a decent seller. It smacks of the old standard GM belief that if they projected to earn 1.5 billion in a given year but only reached 1.2 billion, they report that they lost money for that year when in fact they achieved a profit.
For myself, last year shopping for a comfortable American sedan, I was forced to make the decision to either go with, Japanese, Korean, or German. Because there aren't American manufacturers offering "cars" other than performance models. No Swedish cars are in my picture, since Saab is gone, and Volvo is now owned by China--so forget that because I'm not supporting the communism of the CCP.
I don't think the Japanese build anything comfortable for years now since Toyota changed the Avalon into a kid's car (hard seats/stiff suspension) about ten years ago, and that model has been discontinued now anyway. A Lexus wasn't on my list financially. And I couldn't spend the near $100K for the G90 Genesis, though that single model screams comfort. I opted for a used Mercedes-Benz E-Class, a 2016, just turning six years old, lightly used, and had low mileage. And that's been somewhat acceptable except that somewhere between 2002 and 2014 Mercedes turned the E-Class into a kid's car. Yes, another case of stiff seats and suspension. I refer to it as my Camaro sedan, not in a loving way. Had Ford still offered the Fusion I would have bought one because all reports had been of good comfort. As well, if GM still offered the Impala, I would have bought one. I haven't considered the Chrysler 300 sedan because that company, now part of Fiat and Reneault and other foreign makes, has ratings that aren't very good. And being older I do worry about reliability. A side note here, is that happened to Chrysler is very sad to me. Because in 2008-09 Chrysler had just come back to the USA after having been owned by Mercedes-Benz for a number of years. Finally American owned once again, Chrysler needed a government loan the same as GM had. Though GM got the loan albeit being forced to change up the business that they're are masters at by a car hater. Chrysler was refused a loan. Thanks on both accounts, Obama. That wasn't patriotic of you at all. That refusal forced Chrysler to sell part of themselves to the European Stellantis group. And that was an awful thing to have happened, because it was needless.
The entire model line-up of the American auto manufacturers has left people seeking a comfortable, affordable American car without any to buy. Sadly, that forces this rather large group to buy a foreign make. And worse, it eliminates American's from having decent jobs.
that was a pretty good analysis. i am the owner of a lincoln aviator. great looking and with many features but huge issues with gremlins in the software, etc.
i would also add that lincoln, at least in canada, has no idea who their "luxury" customers are. the "experience" of the showroom, of the service , of the entire process is non-existant. it's crap. i've contacted lincoln with my comments without response. that too is indicative of their heads being in the sand.
if you want to be a "luxury" brand you need to create the luxury experience. it's not enough to have a reasonable product. they are bush league.
i currently also own 3 mercedes and 1 porsche. THEY know how to look after their customer experience.
Jon makes a great point. Lincoln was known for its CARS. The Lincoln TownCAR was arguably Lincoln's best seller. For Lincoln to not have cars in their line up is a huge mistake. In fact, I questioned why Ford dumped all of their cars but the Mustang. I think that was a mistake. It certainly puts Lincoln in a bad spot since they no longer have a car platform to build a new Lincoln coupe or sedan. Maybe Lincoln could use the Ford Mustang platform and I don't know bring back the Cougar as a Lincoln???? Mercury was slotted between Ford and Lincoln. Why not bring the Cougar back as a Lincoln luxo sports coupe that could rival the Audi A5 or a BMW M4. Just tossing ideas out. Or take that platform, stretch it and make a true luxo sports sedan that could rival a 5 series or an Integra or TLX.
Their last car, the Fusion, was actually a Mazda. They should have come up with an updated Panther. Real American cars.
I don't understand why all the automakers are turning away from sedans And small cars and just selling SUVS not everyone wants a big ass suv
CAFE regulations really hurt small cars it incentives just skipping it over and building large cars.
Plus they car sales have less profit margins and sales were slowly declining.
Genesis is on fire! I love their products and plan on buying one in the next few years. Lincoln needs to bring their Chinese models here…TOMORROW! They are never going to compete with CT4, 5 or 6 V series much less the Black wing versions. I applaud Cadillac for their success in turning their image around and taking it to the German’s front door! Great video.😊
I had an MKX, babied it, garage kept. At 28,000 miles the transmission went out. I've been in a Cadillac ever since, but I think they've improved. Love my Cadillacs, no issues. The transmission problem was 11 yrs ago & I would trust one now.
Lincoln should of Kept making the town Car. They could of kept the same design for 12 years like Ford did with the Crown Vic. I'm a GM guy but the Town Car was way more reliable and comfortable than any GM sedan of the '00s era.
I live in the New York City area and 90% of the Lincolns on the road are car service/limos. I would not want to drive a car where someone would mistaken it for a livery car.
Just don't get a black one. Most limousines are black.
It's not a sure thing that Ford will even survive. They have severe financial problems and a mountain of debt no paid down since the recovery after the crisis of 2008-2009. You would think that electrification would be a slam-dunk strategy for a luxury brand - you'd have much quieter experience, very powerful drivetrains and fuel economy a non-issue instantly. An all-electric, large Lincoln Town Car or even an EV Navigator could be a bit hit. But they've missed the boat by 5 years. Typical Ford sitting around watching everyone move technology forward without investing in it. I think the ship has sailed without them. The Lightning and Mach E are not going to save the brand.
I drove a new '74 Lincoln Mk IV back in the day. A beautiful exterior, but the interior didn't age well and like the other Detroit cars of the era the beauty was only (thin) skin deep.
My parents had a MKIV and a MKV (and a couple of Continentals), and my second car when I was a MKV. Loved those cars and the brand back in the day. They should make Lincoln Lincoln again.
Ford has always seemed to treat Lincoln like an unwanted step-child only kept around because it's parent (Henry) got it for his kid (Edsel).
I'm weirdly heartbroken by the lack of cars in Ford and Lincoln. I'm right at the age where I'd be looking for a Lincoln, but I do not want a crossover or SUV. I wish they still made a large or even mid-sized sedan.
As much as I love the Lincoln LS, there is the problem of it having Jaguar parts and most mechanics won’t even touch it unless they work on Jaguars. Car Wizard a few weeks back did a video on this very issue.
As for your point on the alphanumeric naming system, the Japanese and American makes just fall short compared to the European brands. The European brands actually have a system as to how they designate their models while the American and Japanese brands just chose seemingly random letters and numbers with no meaning.
I bought a demo LS V-8 15 years ago, and yes, it was the most unreliable car I ever owned [I'm 70] for just the reasons you said. The last good car Ford ever built was the Crown Vic [Panther] Merc/LC. They stopped making them in 2010. Pretty soon, we won't have any Ford [or GM] cars except for Chinese built EV's.
This is an issue hitting a lot of American companies Buick, Harley Davidson , Cesna , JC Penny ect. These companies got used to the baby boomers being around as a cash cow with consistent taste and disposable income. Add in the internet making it far easier to shop around and compare products and there is a very real risk these companies could go the way of Sears and Pontiac if they dont make meaningful change.
H-D is a perfect example, their q/c has tanked for 20 years, their old customers are dying off, and the under 40 riders don't want them. Old, heavy, slow, and overpriced doesn't work any more.
the lincoln LS from the early 2000's was easily the performance equal od the Germans , but the jaguar powertrain reliability caused it to have a well deserved reputation of being unreliable . I drove them , and the mark 8 was the high water mark for Lincoln. it was truly world class.
That was one of Lincoln's mistakes - trying to be "World Class". They had fantastic success being AMERICAN class, and should have stuck to that.
@@michaelbenardo5695 So Ford should have invested in a new generation of the Panther platform? Upgraded to a Coyote up front and improved body-on-frame chassis? 🙂
Ford should expand the Lincoln lineup: import the Z sedan from China, develop a premium trim Mach E, and release an electric full size SUV based on the Lightning. Consumers with lots of disposable income are turning to electric fast.
No mention of the 2017-20 continental?
Well this wasn't a full history of Lincoln since 1980, so the Continental coming out for a few years and then being cancelled felt redundant when I felt I'd already harped on Lincoln's failings. :)
Bring Back The Town Car! Stop the Front Wheel Drive. Owned 4 Lincolns
Excellent video, Jon. And you're right, the Corsair is really nice looking. But $60k is a bit steep. It would probably sell well at $50k.
At this point, Lincoln has become this desperate shell of its former self that exudes the artful appointments from the imagination of a self-made wealthy 80 year old woman (who always shopped at Nieman Marcus or Nordstrom) and finds inspiration from her own fashion sense and style. Unfortunately, that kind of tastefully-appointed classic luxury just doesn't have a market where it is appreciated. I enjoyed this video and appreciate your viewpoints. Well done! Good luck, Lincoln. I personally don't think they'll be around much longer. They certainly don't have any real projects in the works to bring to market any time soon (if ever).
At an international auto show I went to back in November, all of their models looked the same. The difference as it appeared is that they were just different sizes of the same design. You could have the small, medium, large or extra large. They should have sold the Continental with the rear coach doors right from the factory; maybe it would still be around. At least that would have been something distinctive. Making that a limited option from an aftermarket coach builder for an additional whopping $80,000 didn't help the car sell.
"The difference as it appeared is that they were just different sizes of the same design. You could have the small, medium, large or extra large. " To be fair, this is no different to Mercedes' current lineup.
Have owned 78 Town Coupe, 89 Signature , and current 2007 Signature Limited. Traditional OTT American luxury sedans 😊. The current proliferation of SUVS and crossovers has NO appeal for most buyers. A recent article referred to these last Town Cars as the American ROLLS-ROYCE! 🏆 Absolutely agree!
This hit a raw nerve with me. I have ALWAYS admired big Lincoln sedans. I'm 44 and always pulled for both Lincoln and Cadillac (guess it was a natural rebellion from my boomer parents' love of Japanese luxury...) Anyway, I have had several town cars, continentals etc over the years, and I have even gotten my import living parents to drive American recently (mom has a Caddy XTS, dad a very late Town Car.) AND THEY'RE HAPPY WITH THEM! But suddenly, they've stopped making sedans? What gives? The most recent Continental was a very good product, if it had only been half a size larger, I swear it would have sold. I opted for the slightly larger Cadillac CT6, but secretly yearned for the beautiful continental, and my father agrees with me. For now, he's keeping his town car until Lincoln comes out with a proper replacement. I'm not holding my breath; we may both have Genesis G90's in our future. sigh!
It's hard to look at Genesis and think that wouldn't be a good product arc for Lincoln....
I understand SUVs... but it's had to think there isn't a built up demand for a true American RWD Luxury car...
My favorite brand, I miss my 2009 Town Car...😢
And I don't dig SUVs.🧐
@ simone leles-- Same thing with me. You should have kept your 2009 Town Car. I am still driving a 2002 Town Car, and I hope it will last many more years!! 😊😊
When the '17 Continental didn't move hearts and minds, or sell, Lincoln was done. Corsair is so very excellent, but they can't move them. Once "gen x" hit the aspirational or luxury space the American lux brands may as well no longer exist. Just about anyone under 50 only knows Cadillac and Lincoln as history.
If the brand can be saved in North America, it's going to take a large number of the kind of very clever people Dearborn just won't listen to.
Youre right.. they are the over 50s.. im late 40s, and i was never attracted to those lamd yachts. I do like many pre 80s land yachts.. but i dont like the poor mpg.
I think safety regs, especially pedestrian safety regs are ruining body styling and turning body styling into rounded edge thick ugly blocks
I agree! I'm 50. Probably and older man than that in my head!, lol! I've always preferred the big 3 American luxury cars. I have a 71 Imperial Lebaron four door hardtop, 75 Imperial Crown coupe, and 02 Caddy DHS. Had a beautiful town car, but got totalled.
Anyhow, I know exactly what you are saying!! Designers are handcuffed and hog tied these days. All they can do is keep on making the same thing with different grill and tail lights.. and MY GOD...., these God-awful high belt lines have got to stop!!!!
They made the front of the Conti look virtually indistinguishable from the mkz for a majority of non car people. Why pay so much more for the “same” car. They should have done better on the front end to make it stand out .
I have always thought it was a mistake for them to get rid of the old fashioned Town Car. Every one loved them and almost everyone always wanted to have one to rent for a night They were simple and beautiful.
It's a shame really.
Your video is spot on. Everything you report is fact. Just heard they will be making the 25’Nautllus in China and imported here. Thanks Ford. That should really help sales….NOT I cry over the fact they still make the MKZ in China. I love my 14’ MKZ and trying to locate a low mileage 20’ but the car Stealers are asking far too much. I’m totally saddened by Fords management of Lincoln. Again, fantastic video.
Thanks for the comment!
The older Lincoln's where great cars. With the for 460 they had plenty of torque. And rode like they was on clouds. Perfect for a road trip. With room for the entire family.
IF FORD WAS SMART. THEY'D BRING BACK A BIG RWD SEDAN WITH MODERN CONVEINENCES AND TECHNOLOGY. THEY'D SELL A LOT OF THEM.
I'll agree that Lincoln has really lost it's brand cache, at least with buyers in my age range. I still remember the horrid vehicles they made in the 90s and 00s. The new Lincoln SUVs are nice, but for the money, I would rather buy something else TBH. This video is spot on with the issues that the brand faces. I can't think of anyone in my age range (
To me it's the "nice vs price" metric. Lincolns are really nice now.... but they seem to think they're among the best of the best judging on price, and dollar-for-dollar competitors become more attractive.
@@AllCarswithJon I agree, and I think it's more of a Ford-wide problem. A personal example I have is we recently purchased a 2023 Suburban RST to replace our Honda Odyssey that we had outgrown. We spent some time with and test drove the Ford Expedition and really didn't like it. Now, the Expedition is nicer in a lot of ways, and has a lot going for it, but there were little things we just didn't like, such as its ergonomics, and how cheap some of the components (second row seats as an example) were, given its price. A lot of that for us was probably personal preference, but when we weighed everything between it and the Suburban, the Suburban seemed better built to us and spec-for-spec was around $6K cheaper than the Expedition. Now, if the Expedition was the same price, or possibly cheaper than the Suburban... maybe we would have taken a lot closer look. My personal example and mileage will vary from person to person, but my experience may resonate with a lot of other buyers out there... especially in the ~$80K plus range. I agree that Ford values their vehicles way too much.
Everybody at Ford outside of Product Planning and Marketing and Lincoln HATED the name ‘Zephyr’. “Hey Mabel, let’s take the Zephyr” was the problem; it sounded like an old person’s car, which Lincoln didn’t need any more of.
Among the current Lincoln lineup I think the aviator is the promising one with its RWD based platform and 400 HP v6 complementing it’s posh interior. If I had to drive one Lincoln from today’s lineup it would be that one.
Like your stuff Jon! Last year I shopped extensively and bought a new Lincoln Aviator....and I love it!
Awesome vehicle for me but, I'm a 83 year old car guy. Not many of me around and not many gonna be around in coming years.
Guess I prove your point. Incidentally, I also have 2007 Town car that's still going with over 200K indestructible miles!
Thanks for the comment! I love the Aviator... heck I like Lincoln's period.
But yes, you prove my point I think. I used myself as the example at the beginning, but you and I are not really the 'target market' luxury brands crave. :)
They need to bring back the Lincoln Town Car I have not bought another Lincoln since 2000 still waiting for a new version of a Town Car.
I also wish that Lincoln would bring back the Town Car. My daily driver is a 2002 Town Car.
Those downsized Continentals had teenage me in a major chokehold! My aunt had an 84 Givenchy model and to this day it's the smoothest car I've ridden.
I have a love for Lincoln as my mom had a 04 aviator and it was a beauty. The way it sounded when it turned on, how smooth it drove, and how fast it was were all reasons why I wanted the new aviator as my next car but seeing those prices and having a Lincoln employee tell me all the problems with the new ones has made me not want one anymore :(
Growing up in the 1980's dad always had a Town Car or a new Mercury. I read somewhere that China is Lincolns biggest market and they want a brand with a name and a history. The Continental and a few other Lincoln cars are alive and well in China. Just as the new Taurus/Mondeo looks so sharp but not to be found in North America. I hope Lincoln finds it way back to North America soon with new cars and SUV's. I was proud to say we had a new Lincoln Town Car in the 1980's, now it refers to an old large four door that lost its way and is long gone. Come on Ford, "Have you driven a Ford Lately?'. Unless its a truck or overseas your answer is probably not.
Largely agree with you. Lincoln is rudderless without a true identity other than a “nicer Ford”. I will disagree slightly on the Lincoln LS…I have driven several V6 and V8 models, and also have a close friend that owned a 2005 model…I can say they looked nice, drove reasonably well, but the biggest let downs were a very cheap interior (for what it was competing against) and subpar reliability.
When was the last time I heard something exciting about Lincoln? Have you SEEN the new Nautilus? OMG is that beautiful and exciting and checks ALL of my boxes. I’ll be going back to Lincoln after previously owning a LS and Aviator.
This video was released and then Lincoln introduced the 2024 Nautilus hours later. :(
One summer, I went to a street fair in an upscale part of Denver. It was over 100 degrees. Everyone was sweating. Lincoln had a pop-up kiosk. The reps were giving out very handsome-looking China-made black fleece blankets (with the Lincoln logo).
That’s what’s wrong with Lincoln. In that one episode.
Everything.
Wow. That's great!
I know they didn't sell well but I think sedans help show a serious premium brand contender. It only seems half hearted. Ford throws everything into Ford.
Lincoln needs so different body types and different ideas. I think they currently look the best that have in 20 years and have great interiors. But they really need more.
Idk if this is a stupid suggestion but would making a Lincoln version of a Mustang be worth it? Make it more of a GT car? A two door Lincoln would be interesting. However it probably wouldn't sell well. I just suggest it cause they have mustang production here in the US and that would be a easier sale than making a new sedan.
I agree completely. I mentioned (late) in the video that the competitors still have cars, not just SUVs. Leaves Lincoln behind, which is sad when they have a great looking car (the Z) in China.
I tend to think we're near another Gatsby era, so I want to see Lincoln be BOLD! why not a Mustang version that's an audacious personal-luxury coupe? Why not an outrageous oversized convertible? If the other companies aren't doing it, that's exactly where LIncoln should go!
@@AllCarswithJon Did you see their new Nautilus? I just saw it today. Find it amusing that it was released after this videom it looks like it will definitely attract buyers. All I see is a ton of things that will go wrong personally. But it is impressive
@@baronvonjo1929 Saw it this afternoon. Looks great but I think they were waiting for me to release this video first. :)
They say it's an all new platform... but from where? That's my question!
I think luxury is less important than efficiency and reliability id these days.
most cars built today are fairly comfortable and smooth to drive. so really its the prestige of the name plate for the reason people buy these cars.
@@1heavyelement Most vehicles ride like crap. Stiff suspensions and low profile tires do not make for a comfortable ride.
I wanted a quiet luxury car and bought a Mercedes E Class. Not everyone wants an SUV, those are soccer mom cars. I still enjoy the fun of a sedan. I liked the last few sedans Lincoln made, but now it's all SUV and crossover, which I have no interest in.
The older Lincolns are selling much better than the newer ones. I just bought a 2010 Navigator L for $11,000 which has already depreciated, will last me another 300,000 miles. My neighbor just bought a used 2007 town car which has already depreciated. The new navigators are over $105,000. A lot of people aren't going to spend that much on a brand new vehicle which is a depreciating item. Then in 3-4 years, you're lucky that you'll get $50,000 for it. So, you lost $55,000 from depreciation. Plus, the older lincolns are much cheaper to insure and register.
I sold Lincolns for 10 years in the early 2000s. It seems every time Lincoln had a new idea for their vehicles, Ford would steal it and put on their top-line Fords. Example - The beautiful LT truck was diminished, then discontinued, when the F-150 "Platinum" was introduced. It always seemed to me the Lincoln division was totally subservient to the Ford division's whims and had no back bone. Another no-no, in my opinion, was letting Ford dealers also be Lincoln dealers. How many Chevrolet dealers share the same lot with Cadillac ? Finally, they should have carved out a marketing niche and stuck with it. They could have dramatically increased their sales just by engineering all their vehicles to be able to be towed behind RV's. Local dealers should have a booth at every RV show, and every significant classic/antique car show in their area, but their showroom sales staff don't want anything to do with it because they'd be away from where "the sure sales are". I tried to do some of these things but didn't have the support to do it well. But, as an example, I came back from a local high school's football team fundraiser car show showing the MKZ in the school's parking lot with 22 prospects. Younger people never get one-on-one face contact with the Lincoln products so it was quite a stir. At a weekly sales meeting, the Manager encouraged anyone who had any ideas about how to increase sales, to let him know. I gave him a 6-page memo with ideas. I had to ask a week later, if he'd gotten my memo, and had no comments on it. What were some of those suggestions ? Well, instead of spending $ 10000 a week for the same stupid low-quality color ads in the weekend newspapers, alongside all the other dealers' ads, spend that money on something unique. One of those ideas - The Guinness Book of World Records' largest dog ever in the history of the world, lived 90 miles from the dealership. 7' long and 4' tall ! I suggested we hire the owners to bring him up for a Saturday to be in our showroom. Put that ad, "come see the world's largest dog", free hot dogs, hamburgers and drinks, etc" where you'd normally have the weekend ad for a few days prior, and Friday, and have the newspaper include a non-commercial article about the dog and his upcoming visit. Another of those recommendations included an annual Chili Cookoff on the lot. That was 15 years ago. Can you imagine the sales they would have made thru that one annual event in that time ? In summary - when you can't be the best all the time, do everything you can to maximize reaching every potential buyer and keeping your current customers.
That's a really cool idea (the dog). I assume none of your ideas were taken up?
My theory is that car makers who invest heavily in EVs will be disappointed with sales.
I want to agree. I think the level that EV sales are at, if many manufacturers all come out with new EVs you'll have a lot of models selling slowly.... and after the billions invested in ev platforms that could seriously squeeze some companies.
on the other hand, I read something the other week that Mercedes hedged their bets on an EV model, building it and the ICE version at the same time, and demand was much stronger than they anticipated.
I expect a shake-out over the next 10 years.
Very informative episode. I have my eyes on the 2024 Nautilus hybrid, which is a beautiful design, inside and out. But, after watching your critique of Lincoln, I have to wonder if the support for these vehicles will be in place 5 years down the road. Interesting times, for sure.
I hate to say this, but I believe that Lincoln is on its way out! I hope that the people at Ford-Lincoln can hurry up and get their act together and prove me wrong.
Ford and GM both screwed up royally when they dropped their Lincoln town car and Cadillac's Sedan DeVille and Coupe DeVille models. Both were all good dependable vehicles. All had some problems but with the right decisions being made these issues could have been worked out easily. I currently own a 2003 Lincoln town car and I wouldn't trade it for anything made by anyone in the market today. It has a tried and true engine, transmission and rear end. Great riding car and very dependable.
Love the brand, and have a MKX, but the pricing is getting out of reach. The whole point of Lincoln is to have a little luxury without the hefty price tag. If I upgrade my MKX, it will definitely be a used one, but not a Corsair, it's too small. Still love the V6 models.
The whole point of Lincoln was LUXURY, with a price tag to match. Lincolns were never intended for those who have to worry about the price. That's what Mercurys were for.
My friend has a Lincoln and I have to tell you it is a really great car. My problem is, Lincoln doesn't offer any sport sedan, let alone a sedan. I'm 41, so I'm "grown up" and SUVs just don't do it for me. If Lincoln offered a sporty sedan with power, I would definately consider it.
I really enjoyed your review of Lincoln. I'm a total Ford man and I only buy Ford Motor Company products. It's been that way since the late 60s. I can tell you are too. Your critical comments were worded as fondly as anyone could. But you are completely right in everything you said. When Ford announced it would stop building sedans because they weren't selling, your point about other manufacturers were continuing to manufacture and sell them. That was my first reaction to that announcement. A more accurate statement would be their sedans weren't selling and that's what their focus should have been. Build better sedans. I remain hopeful that Ford will bring back sedans, and station wagons but on an electric platform. Invest in cars Ford, and do it now. The Ford Motor Company is to America, more than an auto manufacturer, it is the American automotive industry icon that defines the American way, a truly American success story. I was born in East Detroit, my dad's side of the family all worked at Ford. My mom's side at Chrysler, so you can say the American auto industry is in my blood, and I'm proud that it is. Build a better car, and the people will buy it.
Thanks for the comment... I do try to be careful with wording and not come across overly biased. We own Fords and quite like them, but I'm not blind to their current reliability/recall challenges. I also really like Lincoln, but as nice as they are the quality isn't really up to the level of others (again, more "Nice Ford" level).
As for Ford abandoning cars, it was understandable. Invest heavily in new cars when that market is shrinking, or use the plants to produce more (and more profitable) SUVs. Logical, business sense.
But it means Ford just gave up while Toyota, VW, Mazda, Nissan, and Honda all continued. That's what irks me... they literlly just gave up.
The unforseen circumstance is that their 'Luxury' brand is now starved of any car platforms when other 'Luxury' brands never abandoned cars. To me, that leaves them uncompetitive for a whole section of the high-priced market.
I’m in my mid-40’s and I have always liked old school American luxury cars. I liked the Town Car when it was still available. I’ve thought about buying a Chrysler 300 while I still can, although the interior is admittedly about 10 years old. It’s hard for me to get excited about what Lincoln is selling us these days. I’m not crazy about where Cadillac is right now either because everything they’re building is just a fancy Chevy with a much higher price tag