Intersex subscriber here. Loved this. You packed so much information in here I did not even know yet. Old enough to remember how doctors tried to force me into a choice. My mother stood by me then and still does now. So glad the world is finally starting to be more aware. Hope this trend of knowledge sets through. Thank you. :}
Hi there.. Lot's of love and respect from a fellow intersex person. Hang in there.... Just curious have you been living life as a man now or a woman... In my case I have embraced my XY chromosome and chose to live as a normal guy. Also am a muslim just for additional info...
As a 6” tall child cis-woman with the shoulders of a linebacker and equally wide hips, it is a comfort to know that my bones may very well confuse the hell out of an academic 1000 years in the future. That is a very broad hipped man, or is a a gigantic woman..... the burial goods of a cast iron frying pan, a chainsaw and hair adornment don’t help.
As a woman with wide splaying out ribs, narrow hips and a Chad jawline which all results in me having a very male shape - thanks that id a funny and comforting thought lol.
@@namenloss730 Why would that make it obvious? She could just be a man with broad hips. You can tell by the hip bones whether a person has given birth before, but not every woman does that so it would not be obvious.
I have a colleague who is intersex and we work quite closely for union matters; she is intersex herself, a vocal advocate nationally and did her PhD on the matter. I've read her thesis and it is frankly incredible and illuminating and taught me a lot about topics I considered myself already reasonably informed in! As an aside, the "bearded woman" thing can sometimes be due to Polycystic Ovarian Syndrome (PCOS) or other similar hormonal conditions, and there is a kind of reverse (actually that historians theorise the family of Tutankhamen had) where some "feminine" traits present due to similar hormonal disruptions. What I mean to say is that yes, all these can be traits of being intersex, but they are not always. Sex and gender is always tricky, and I appreciate you covering it in the context of history as minorities of any kind are so often seemingly forgotten, and their stories are ones that should be told and remembered
I'd love to read that thesis someday, it sounds absolutely fascinating! Apologies for the generalisation, I should have covered PCOS and Hypertrichinosis, but didn't manage to remember it all
PCOS is one of the conditions that falls under the umbrella of intersex. The aspect of PCOS that causes the numerous cysts is the fact that the ovaries produce more testosterone than they're supposed to, which leads a thickening of the walls of the ovaries so that they are more like testes, which makes it more difficult for the egg to punch through when it's released. Intersex isn't always ambiguous external genitalia or unusual chromosome combinations (XXY, XYY, etc.), sometimes it's just hormonal differences. The fact that my polycystic ovaries produce triple the testosterone that they're supposed to is what makes me intersex.
@@wannabe_elf huh, I've never though about it like that! I have had many hormonal disruptions myself (not PCOS, but only techically because I never had multiple cysts but hit the other issues), and when I went on spiralactin to help my hair grow back my trans friend and I had a "whoa" moment when we realised she's on the same medication as me, and the reason (increasing factors related to female secondary sex characteristics) is pretty much the same, despite her being trans-woman and me being a cis-woman!
@@wannabe_elf I know someone who has this condition. She didn't know what it was until I posed the possibility- at least not in English. She's Haitian. She told me she had an aunt with the same condition. How it seemed to manifest in her was to give her some chin hair which she was constantly battling. It seemed to pose difficulties getting pregnant. It also seemed to make her VERY horny!!! I've explored this phenomenon of intersex QUITE a bit. Yet I would have never thought of her as intersex. So I'm wondering if simply having a beard makes a woman intersex.
I know Asia isn't your area of study, but it is what I studied. I wanted to confirm that there are and always have been intersex people in Asia. Their lives are not what I focused on, but their stories still showed up in a verity of ways and they definitely existed. Just in case anyone was worried that, some how, intersex people weren't part of their history. I am also very interested in your PhD studies! I am looking forward to that video.
I'm reminded of something my mother likes to say: "Everything you think is new has been done before". And that is something we need to keep in mind when people start spouting off about things not being known in history. Humans have always been humans and they deserve to be treated as humans. Edit to add that I love the mini archeology rant at the end." What is bone?" had me giggling and almost woke my husband.
I just happen to be intersex and transgender if there is such a combination. There are at least forty very separate intersex conditions. I happen to have a germ cell sexual body development. A condition where during gestation the germ cells failed to fully reach the developing gonads. Thus I was born with one ovotestis and one underdeveloped testis. Even though I appear male I really see myself as a female. So so people would tend to call me transgender. I just laugh at all the fuss that has been generated by people who have much too much time on their hands and need to worry about how we live our lives. I’ve been married for forty years and we manage to get along just fine without someone having to define who and what I am or am not. I also have had a great deal of surgeries that were to some degree uncalled for.
We need more forgotten history... I appreciate this. This needs to be heard by the people who don’t want to acknowledge that everyone deserves respect and autonomy.
Thank you so much for this. As an intersex historian, this video really resonated with me. I love when historians can help people see their significance and worth extends into the past. Thank you for taking the time to create this video. I am so glad I found your channel.
*high five* to Editing Jimmy. You balance casual conversation, with fact checking really nicely. Thanks for correcting your real, but less than excellent moments, in the educational and humble way you do.
I am forever grateful for your refusal to generalize. I keep hearing people - especially in election season (blegh) - saying "well, gender/sex is how it has always been so get over it." Not just this video but in general your deep dives into topics are a refreshing antidote to the "this is how it has always been" attitude. Also I had way too much fun with the archeology "rant" at the end.
Another former archaeologist here. I'm still shaken that I actually saw a meme about this a few days ago, that only an archaeologist would get. Johnny Depp in Pirates if The Caribbean surrounded by all the white stones, picks one up, licks it, "No, not bone." Some archaeologist somewhere released a meme into the wild!
@@nikkia9506 Well I wasn't expecting to learn two new facts about biology and geology from an archaeology meme described in a youtube comment, from a video about the history of intersex people. THE INTERNET IN ACTION.
I love so much when we crack open history again and realize there were tons of things there that didn't get noticed and/or were forgotten about because they didn't fit certain narratives. Things like gender identity, sexuality, gender roles are so ripe for this because certain people place such value judgements and insist that only one way of thinking is correct. I have a personal pet theory that centuries from now they're going to look back at the idea of the gender binary and even the schema we used to classify gender and think we were as quaint and adorable as we do when we look back on the idea of health being related to the four humors. Like bless our hearts we tried but boy did we get a lot wrong because we didn't even know how to look at the issue. Anyway, loved the vid. Great job!
It always makes my head explode when people say that intersex people are new. People have existed on all parts of the sex and gender spectrums for all of human history. It's fun to make the heads of people who believe that explode when you explain that "primitive" cultures totally got that and had words and roles for people outside the binary. Edit: YES to the difficulty sexing skeletons.
Thank you for making this video! I really liked it. The disclaimers about respectful words and the informations in the description are very much appreciated.
As a proud member of the SCA Pirate community and ally of Clan Blue Feather, I have taught classes at reenactment events here in the North East United States, on transgender people in period. The most notable person I use is Catalina De Erauso, a former Nun from Spain who ran away from the convent and lived for 20 years as a Alonso Diaz, a Spanish soldier of fortune in South America. When their biological sex was discovered, they went first to Spain, then to Rome and was given pensions for military service and a Papal dispensation to continue to live as a man. I love this story because it proved that the Church was not as backwards and anti learning as it has been portrayed.
Thank you for your work raising awareness and teaching about figures and parts of history of history schools refuse to acknowledging and for giving me someone to look into. Its always interesting learning about a previously unknown LGBTQ+ historic figure. I couldn't help feeling the need to check here though, but as they chose to live as a man wouldn't it be proper to refer to them by their chosen masculine name not their birth name of Catalina? Or did they speak out later to reclaim the name despite shedding it previously?
@@khaxjc1 I used the name they used to publish their autobiography with as that is the name they chose. Without actually speaking with them we actually don’t know if they were actually transgendered or just gender nonconforming. I personally tend to believe they were transgender as they returned to South America and continued to live as a man.
As long as humans and human cultures have existed, humans have presented with the whole panopoly of human sexuality, both physically and socially/culturally, and the ways that societies have dealt with it historically usually seemed to be a case of, “well, make your mind up” and then they were accepted as whatever gender they chose. Way back, hermaphroditism(physically) was both feared and because of that fear, they were often considered god touched and thus, were priests, and respected(kinda). In the pacific islands, Samoa specifically, you have the Fa’afafine, who are often physically male, but are sometimes physically trans, and emotionally and mentally intersex. They were treated and accepted as female....up till the missionaries arrived anyway. These days, they are still here but while there IS acceptance, there’s also that church, “gay is bad” vibe which is sad. In England in the 1600s there was the infamous cut purse and fence, Moll Frith, who was fond of men’s clothing and her pipe, and seemed to garner both affection and scandal in equal measure. There’s a story that she requested that she be buried, face down, bum up lol, a final “up yours” to the world. Moll Frith is one of my personal hero’s. The difference today is that while there are a lot of people that will never accept anything but the binary, two genders, male +female paradigm, there are others who are open to the existence of “other”. And yeah sometimes it feels like we’re howling into the wind(I was gonna use the “other” metaphor there but I’m trying to be polite), trying to have difference, otherness, heard in this world, but things ARE changing. Glacially slowly, but they are. Finally on a totally unrelated note, caught your collab with Liz from Lizcapism....very cool....coulda listened to a lot more of that “hint hint”
As a trans on Binary person I have to thank you for these videos. They are super educational, and you are so respectful with these topics. Your videos really are a breath of fresh air. Thank you again for shedding light on the less talked about topics.
I chose my anthropology major partially because I learned about intersex people and nonhinary genders in other cultures and felt like I wasn't alone for the first time. The cool people do indeed have our backs! Thanks Jimmy. I learned tons of new things.
I know this is an older video, but I have to mention that I started crying at the after credits message. The topic of the video was super interesting (and bloody sad and depressing tbh), but your after credits message.. Just thank you I guess.
Informative and respectful. If people really think these things are only modern are crazy. People have always have differences, we're just more accepting now.
Raise your hand if you were expecting to see an Viking example, at the end. I was hoping it was that random person strolling by, in the background at the end. I'm laughing at my expectations. Very enjoyable chat, Jimmy. Thank you for opening the conversation.
Haha! I'd have loved it if I'd been able to co-ordinate that. Alas, I tried to find a viable example of the Vikings discussing intersex people, but failed to do so. They were almost certainly aware, but didn't write much. Happy to be presented with evidence though!
Alot of what we know about vikings are really limited to what's in the eddas and archaeological finds sadly. I think there was polyamory in there culter but as far as other things go it's harder to know
@@lunawolfheart336 There was to a degree. We know that some sources from the Viking period itself refer to men having concubines, but it's certainly not polyamory in the way we think about it today!
Hermaphrodites & The Medical Invention of Sex, by Alice Dreger is a great resource. And thank you Jimmy for calling people's attention to the hermstorical lives of intersex.
I haven't really studied this really since college (class of 2005), so I really enjoyed the refresher. It's also just great to have a video that covers the subject rather well, without being too long for a casual viewer. I also applaud you for including the resources you mentioned at the end!
As a nonbinary intersex queer person (who just discovered your channel, instant sub my friend ❤️) it's so refreshing and empowering to see perisex/dyadic individuals elevating the voices of intersex people and our history, and affirming that we've always been part of history as much as anyone else. A majority of pre-christian cultures had words and descriptions for intersex or gender and sex variant people even if they don't exactly translate to modern gender labels or terminology (except in some cases like the Jewish intersex varieties (tumtum, androgynos, and a third I can't recall), indigenous American two spirit, and the Indian hijra), and many considered us sacred or divine, even! Nature isn't binary, the world isn't defined in black and white without intermediary greys, and many forget that defining something as complex as sex or gender is not so simple and contrasted like binarist colonial idealogies believe. Intersex people especially are often left behind in advocacy and even still it's legal for us to be medically abused in a majority of places. So often we are forced with no say into picking a "side" before were old enough to protest, or are pressured into the same as children, teens, or young adults. I myself only recently found that I'm intersex because my condition is covert and presents itself in late teens, so as a child it went unseen. I was among the lucky ones not given nonconsensual surgeries or operations as a child, but many aren't so lucky to evade that treatment. Thank you for educating about us and speaking about something so many people would rather pretend doesn't exist. ✨🙏✨
Also as a note it's very important to account that intersex people sometimes do not have ambiguous genitals or gonads at all and sometimes the condition is predominantly of a hormonal nature it's just a matter of Which Condition is causing it. There's also grey areas, for example some with PCOS can be considered intersex and identify as such because they experience hyperandrogenism which causes them to be oppressed the same ways, but hyperandrogenism is the criteria for intersexness under this condition, not PCOS itself. Not everyone with PCOS is intersex but some are welcomed under the umbrella due to their experiences as they also experience medical abuse, pressure, and dogmatic practices. In the medical field there is misconception that NO PCOS classifies as intersex but that's a matter of academic dogma and bias that intends to shrink our numbers on paper to maintain the "rarity" myth. We're not exactly common but certainly not rare. NCAH (my condition) and hyperandrogenic PCOS are some of the most underacknowledged intersex variants, because we present as more "binary" anatomically and are more easily "medically corrected' as a result, often doctors will diagnose the condition but tell the patient that they're not "actually" intersex, despite them clearly existing outside of biological perisex/dyadic phenotype standards. There's also an entire medical industry built on shaming people with hyperandrogenic intersex conditions like NCAH and PCOS in people assigned female at birth into "becoming more feminine" with pressure to remove extra body and facial hair, take estrogen and lower androgen levels for cosmetic reasons, etc. Also, NCAH is often misdiagnosed as PCOS by lazy doctors who don't want to test for everything, which also reduces our documented population because the medical field currently excludes PCOS despite many with PCOS being included in our own community by intersex people. This results in most AFAB hyperandrogenic people being diagnosed with PCOS, told "oh you're not "actually intersex" we can "fix" it", and then comes the shaming and medical pressure to conform. Also as an aside related to this tangent anyone reading this please remember intersex people aren't sterile or infertile by default and many are able to reproduce, which destroys the misconception that we're broken evolutionary failures. The myth that no intersex people can ever reproduce is another part of the medical dogma of the contemporary age that exists to marginalize us and make us appear to be inherently biologically flawed.
It's imperitive in my view as an intersex person that we do not allow perisex medical academics to define what we are, because they're our most direct oppressors.
Also a small correction! The percentage of known intersex population is at least 4% of the world but it's most assuredly more than that due to underdiagnosis and covert intersex conditions
This was so interesting, and I had heard of almost none of it! The idea that any of this is simple and binary, or that it's some new modern thing is so foolish. As a trans person I'd just like to say that I think you're a good egg and I appreciate this content. And thank you for the "making a big fuss can embarrass people, just be cool and move on" bit!
also i've seen claims that intersex is as common as 1 in 20 people (so 5% of humans). haven't seen a source but since it came from an intersex information site i'm not super worried about it being wrong
Some of us have RECLAIMED the HERM term! And it must be understood that intersex is not determined only by one's genitals! Way too much focus on the genital configuration!
ONE PERCENT?! Wow, how on earth does society understand/accept so little about intersex people when it's so common! That is mind-blowing! Also since you just casually revealed that you can (at least) read French I'm curious as to how many languages you can read and speak?
I read Welsh, English, and French pretty fluently. I have enough Italian to know what I'm doing, my Gaelic is basic, my German rudimentary, and my Russian and Greek are appalling.
It's absolutely not that common. It's 1% only if you try to include all people with atypical genetic and hormonal traits. You need to count things like klinefelter syndrome (XXY) which are males with small penises, testies, and are mostly sterile. Most of the people included as intersex under those conditions do not have any visible clues or perceivable impacts. They would never have been viewed as intersex/hermaphrodite/... at any point in history until modern medicine. And most will never know of their "condition". Trying to push an "intersex" identity on those people is the same as trying to push a label on me for my chiari that was randomly discovered after an accident but has no effect on my life.
It's so refreshing and heartening to see a straight white man (I am assuming you're straight, do forgive and correct me if I'm wrong) being a proper ally in a non-arrogant, non-conceited way! You show up with historical sources, thoroughly researched info, love, acceptance, and support, and it's just so wonderful, every time. Thanks for that, Jimmy, much love!
I was an acquaintance and client of Ms. Sid back in the 70s. She was the first transgender person in our state and was murdered in 77 or 78 (I'm sorry I can't remember the exact year) It was horrifying what she went through prior to her death. Her bravery is what I remember the most about her.
Subscribed for this. I'm quite picky in subscriptions, and watch lots of history channels, but when someone comes up with such historically grounded, humble, humanity-focused material that I feel like helps me understand my present day world better? Priceless.
Thank you for this important and erased history! It's baffling how many people think intersex people are a made up modern thing when we have evidence of people being born this way since the dawn of history
That was fascinating. Thank you very much. I'm both interested in historical clothing and culture and in LGBTIQ* rights. So I'm thrilled to hear something that combines the two topics. It's long overdue to outlaw the genital mutilation of intersex children. (And genital mutilation in general.)
I don't remember how I got recommended this video anymore, whether youtube put it in my orbit or another intersex person pointed me here, but I just wanted to take the opportunity to say thank you for making this video. It may not be possible to fit the entirety of intersex (or any other identity's) history into a video, you've done a great job of touching on so many areas, many of which I didn't know much about, and really digging into the emotional and meaningful aspects of that history as well. You've made me feel loved and happy today.
throwin it out there that "transgender" is preferred over "transsexual," which is considered antiquated (unless someone specifically prefers that label)
Thank you for spreading awareness and information. It's amazing how much information can be found in places you might not think of looking at first, like the legal documents in this case. Also, I find it fascinating how different cultures have had different approaches to the same phenomenon. It tells a lot about how they observed and understood the surrounding world.
This...made me so freaking happy just seeing this thumbnail. I recently had discovered I am intersex and this made me feel so...so happy and validated. Thank you, thank you so much. Thank you, thank you, thank you, for just touching on our existence, thank you for giving me more proof to tell people that I exist and I am valid. Thank you...(I'm crying while writing this so I'm sorry I'm saying thank you so much)
Bless you! I’m not surprised you’re emotional if it’s 4am where you are! You’re a valid and valued human being, and anyone who says otherwise can take a long jump off a short pier. Take care!
Thank you. I'm not an intersex person, and I don't know any intersex people. That is to say, if I know any intersex people, they have never seen a reason to tell me that they are intersex. My stake in this topic is just the fact that intersex people just that, people. I don't like it when my fellow humans suffer indignities for merely existing. Anyone with a platform using their voice to make any of us feel less alone get's a thank you from me. So again, thank you.
Disclaimer: This is based on documentary and a bit of research, I am by no means is an expert in this case. So if you know more or I got something wrong do correct me :) This reminds me of a murder case from the late 19th century here in Denmark. A boy was killed while living in an orphanage. The murderer was the warden Vilhelmine Møller, a strongly religious woman who was a genius in childrearing. She was present-day-modern in her approach to the concept of childhood and for that the children liked her (no wonder when the alternative is a beating and "stop being a child"). She was highly regarded for her work and dedication. During the murder case something was off and the judge ordered a mental and physical examination and to the surprise of all she was deemed intersex (my wording). But because she had underdeveloped male parts - being visible compared to ovaries - she was forced to become a man being moved to a male prison and then a male ward in a workhouse. The court had to go to the king and get a decree changing her assigned gender, because the law was so binary it was impossible to prosecute her for the murder (don't ask my why or how, but apparently it was the case). In her journals she seems to say she felt more inclined towards the female side, hence my pronoun choice.wereHer assignment to male did allow her to marry a woman she had met while she was in the female prison. The woman was one of the guards. It lead to a big debate in different spheres about what the female and male gender is. It was raised in a medical journal and argued that someone who had lived 38 years as a woman couldn't be expected to live, act and be a man just with a decision. Someone in that situation could be called (as apparently was a thing in Jutland - a (then) rural part of Denmark) a 'neither'. Sadly over all it lead to vilifying unmarried and/or elderly women who were assumed to be men in disguise. The reasoning being that women who lead a life without a man present of course become perverted. Isn't that a novel reaction!
This was such a great positive video! I love that you do your videos from a tree it honestly gives such chill vibes. And I hope field work went well and was fun and above all produced some juicy data because we love data!
The end rant about assigning a sex to a skeleton and your discussion with the horizontal line gave me a much needed giggle this morning. Also, the video was amazing, as usual! Glad to hear your fieldwork went/is going well 👍☺️
Dude, you’re my new favourite TH-camr. Thank you for using historical and archaeological evidence to dismiss the validity of hate, and enforce the idea that humanity is a beautiful, nuanced and sophisticated thing.
Your verbal hug at the end got me tearing up! (As someone who afaik fits the conventional binary comfortably!) One of the random Zoom chat groups I've found myself in during lockdown is one for trans people and their allies (it's mostly women, but not all); one of the conversations that came up was around biologically intersex people (many of whom may have no idea that they might not be the gender they were assigned at birth), and the statistic quoted was around 1 in 60! For the scientifically interested, there are some good talks on the RI channel, which totally debunk the idea that gender is a simple XY binary!
Hmm. I had no idea that the term hermaphrodite had fallen out of favor, thank you. I have always been against sex assignment at birth so I actually had an escape plan when my kiddos were born (over 18 years ago) if they had been born intersexed. You learn new things everyday. Now to go reprogram my lexicon...
As a genderqueer person, I appreciated hearing your views on the historical representations of non-binary folks. I wish I'd had the words for how I felt about gender growing up. It took me twenty years to sort things out. The cool people definitely have our backs. Take care, Jimmy.
I was unbelievably happy to find this video! I'm non-binary and while I am not intersex, reading about intersex people throughout history and mythology was a comfort for me when I was younger. You might like the Babylonian/Sumerian myths of Asushunamir. If you're interested, you can find multiple translations/tellings online(though some use pretty dated language). That myth was what first got me into Babylonian history and mythology. Another related(and awful) story from America: during what's widely considered the first "mud-slinging" campaign in U.S election history, John Quincy Adams was accused of being intersex and thus ineligible to run. I can't remember if he was subject to examination but either way, telling...
I'm not intersex but I am non-binary trans and I just want to thank you for making such an informative video on this subject! I really wish more people understood that intersex and trans people have always existed. It's tough times out there for us at the moment and it's always encouraging to find folks who are supportive!
I'm intersex and trans. I'm AMAB but have fairly strong Partial Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome, plus I've felt that my gender identity aligns solidly as woman and has since I can remember Thank you for the reasoned discourse on this matter, in the absolute hellscape that being trans in 2022, when being subjected to abusive rhetoric from terfs, they conveniently forget that a) we're human, b) we exist, c) its not a fucking choice, d) SERIOUSLY STOP IT ffs, e) we've been here all along, and f) there's no absolute gender binary, intersex people existing make this pretty bloody clear
I have to say, your content makes me so happy and teaches me so much! I can always trust to have a good time playing your videos while doing a project. It makes the time go by so much faster and I feel so productive!
Can I just make a slight correction here or explain more fully that it is more true to say that non-binary is a term for people who do not conform to the gender binary but people with INTERSEX characteristics have BODIES that do not conform to traditional and medicalised definitions of male or female. It is not a gender identity (for most people with intersex traits, tho it might be part of their identity). INTERSEX is about the body, about one's SEX rather than one's social gender.
I'm so glad I discovered your channel! Being in lockdown has been hard and being able to listen to you talk while I make jewelry or cook food has been such a comfort. You have such a nice way of teaching history and a great sense of humour! I hope your channel grows more.
This was kinda uplifting to watch while refilling meds for, amongst others, a condition that makes me the bearded lady. My facial hair does not make me special, historically. Gotta survive past forty to achieve that one.
Good old Pliny the elder huh? He seems to have had a lot to say about almost everything. 😁 Thanks for such an interesting video! Much appreciated. I wondered what was happening last week when there wasn't a video. Glad your studies are going well even with the fresh lockdown in the UK. Have you had a chance to check out that Turkish historical drama I recommended to you a while back?
I think it was sometime in the 90's when I read an article about intersex - "hermaphrodite" babies that had until recently before that time been in bulk surgically "corrected" into girls, based only on the fact that it was technically an easier operation to hack off the dangly bits than to do the opposite. And the babies' parents then proceeded to condition them (and also - with the medical assistance of the oh so helpful medical providers - stuffed them with all possible hormonal drugs to further "correct" their physical development) to behave and serve as females in society.
Giggles at the very end. I’m really happy to see this subject pop up in something other than medical documentary type videos, while they’re very good videos, it gives the impression that intersex people are to be pitied and that the forced assignment of gender that has been perpetrated by the medical community was ‘a good thing’ even when the person in question had their world completely turned upside down when they finally found out that they were, in fact, intersex! I’m glad that parents have the option now to refuse to have their child’s gender decided on before they can make their own choices, even though the medical community will still try to pressure parents to a ridiculous degree! Hopefully more people will be educating themselves and advocating for their children instead of making a choice that’s hugely premature and possibly not even needed! Thank you for sharing all the interesting historical information that, I hope, will help parents make a more informed decision! Also, “What is bone?” Is going to be in my head for a while! ROTFLMFAO!
There must have been a time in the world before anyone named all the various colors. That doesn't mean the whole spectrum didn't exist yet or that every flower anyone saw was some shade of gray. May we never let words or the lack of them define what we experience nor limit how we perceive the the world and our own place in it.
You are officially my new favorite youtuber, I'm looking forward to seeing much more of your content. We need more open-minded and progressive history youtubers!
So I came to the channel directly from the Why Horned Helmets collab. I went to see what videos were here to find, saw this and immediately clicked while saying "hell yes". Im not intersex. Im just someone who find sit insane and shameful that it is still propitiated that, and Im quoting here, "it started with Adam and Eve. Thats how it is and how its always been." The number of people I have talked to who have no idea oronly have horribly butchered information. Then there is the discussion of gender and pronouns and I hear these arguments using "History" to prop up their prejudice ideas and just want to cry with frustration. As a prime example, some time back I was having a conversation with my uncle's friend and I haven't been able to let it go. It pops back into my head over and over. We had been discussing history and how so many people dont learn from it with things repeating over and over and people acting like its new which led to talking about a lobster that was getting a bunch of attention for reproducing without a mate and how people were acting like this was new. I mentioned how I followed a comic series that was all about teaching people about how different species reproduce and species that have more than just binary sexes. All my uncle's friend needed to hear was binary and he went off about how the idea of non binary or anything other than male female is just a fad. And how when an archeologist digs up your bones they will look at them and declare you male or female so that shows how it is. After just talking about people not learning from history he had then gaul to say that. So hearing you talk about sexing bones at the end was like balm. Beyond loving to hear the topic of gender discussed through the lens of history, I also thoroughly enjoyed the humor, and thoughtfulness and how it came off not like a lecture but a sharing of information. And the care with which you proceeded! Trying to be thoughtful of sensitivities and just. Im so happy I came across this channel and the collab cause this is the best Friday night Ive had since my area first went into lockdown. Im sorry this comment isn't its best. The last several days have been extremely stressful with much anxiety and little sleep. Its only ten pm but I'm completely exhausted and just a bit out of it. There were several times I could not think of a word or how to phrase things. Im fairly certain I failed to accurately express what Im feeling and thinking but the core of it is Thank you. Thank you so much for this video and being the kind of person who would put in the effort to make a video about this. Im very happy to have discovered this channel and am looking forward to exploring it more.
As a they/them I appreciated the way you corrected your accidental misgendering (and put an informational slide in there). Honestly if the acknowledgement or apology is necessary to the misgenderer in the slap-your-forehead-if-you-forget-your-keys way that it seems to be, I kinda wish more people would just go "ah, f*ck," correct themselves, and move on - it would certainly save conversational time! I appreciate that you left it in and made it a teachable moment (Also, free tip to anyone reading this: a good way to get used to using someone's pronouns is, whenever you misgender them whether verbally or in your head, say or think three sentences about that person deliberately using their pronouns)
A note on generalizations at 8:56: the bearded woman -- I do believe that there are biological women with naturally occurring high levels of androgens who are not intersex. (Forgot to thank you for this video, so: thank you! looking forward to the next in the series)
Also, you don’t even necessarily have to have high androgen levels for this to occur. Hair follicles can just be unusually sensitive to androgens, so even average hormonal levels can result in some whiskers.
Really glad to see this being taken both seriously because of the historical and present suffering and also lightly because making such a huge deal of this is so absurd.
People have always been people, brains are weird, bodies are weird. 16:54 for people needing love. This is the contect I'm here for, askign the serious and deep questions. What is bone?
There is a book written in the US in the 70s called Hanta Ho (I can’t remember the author, sorry) which is a written account of the history of the Lakota People, with a few individuals picked out. There were 7 recorded “man-becoming-woman” people in the tribe, who were not only accepted but thought to have special abilities, even be shamans. A great book!
I was busy in the room and thought you’d signed off with, “what is bone?” And after a few beats I hear you talking to your camera! Lol bonus footage, eh?
Thank you for talking about this! Would of been nice to not just cover Western views on intersex. Guess that gives you something to talk about next year for intersex awareness day :)
Alas I had limited time for research and videomaking, and my main subject area is medieval Europe, but heck yeah! Let's do another one focusing on other areas!
You present the Islamic Law regarding intersex people as if it's a compassionate recognition of their nonbinary status, but in fact it was intended to ensure an intersex person couldn't gain the legal rights granted to men or women. At least the Christian Law and Jewish Law approaches of requiring intersex people to identify as either men or women ensured they would get the legal rights of one group, rather than none.
hiya, i just wanted to say, as a trans person (i'm not intersex, but reading about both intersex and trans people throughout history has been a point of comfort and solidarity for me), i found this video super lovely! nothing in history has ever been absolute, least of all humans, and its essential for attention to be drawn to that fact! so thank you so much for putting out this content, it's very much appreciated :)
Finding ways to incorporate gender nonconformity into my creative-anachronism persona has been an interesting challenge! I started by reading about eunuchs in the Byzantine empire, trying to suss out how such people presented themselves. Alas, most of the sources are about fancy guys who worked in the palace with their gold robes and badges of rank and silk slippers. I'm looking for the medieval misfits! Criminals, sex workers, entertainers, the spicy underbelly that exists in every society. If you have any tips on tracking them (and their clothes, so I can bite their style) down, please share! Maybe I should look into circuses next.
I'm not sure that the "spicy underbelly" is really the place to look for gender nonconformity, honestly. In the past, as we saw, many cultures forced people to pick one binary option and go with it, or suffer serious consequences up to and including death at times. Criminals, sex workers, circus performers and entertainers generally didn't have a uniform, as we might like them to, and wore whatever clothing reflected their position in society, or whatever finery they could afford, just like everyone else. For many, of course, that wasn't very much. Sadly, the criminal classes weren't necessarily any more accepting than anyone else, in any given period. Since we're talking creative anachronism, the way you interpret this one is up to you, but maybe consider just wearing the clothes of the gender/s you don't present usually? That was what Thomasine Hall did, and it was enough to "out" them as intersex in the early 1600s.
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Intersex subscriber here. Loved this. You packed so much information in here I did not even know yet.
Old enough to remember how doctors tried to force me into a choice. My mother stood by me then and still does now. So glad the world is finally starting to be more aware. Hope this trend of knowledge sets through.
Thank you. :}
Thanks so much for taking the time to post this. I'm really glad the video was ok for you, and I'm so glad to hear you've a supportive parent. :)
Hi there.. Lot's of love and respect from a fellow intersex person. Hang in there....
Just curious have you been living life as a man now or a woman...
In my case I have embraced my XY chromosome and chose to live as a normal guy. Also am a muslim just for additional info...
As a 6” tall child cis-woman with the shoulders of a linebacker and equally wide hips, it is a comfort to know that my bones may very well confuse the hell out of an academic 1000 years in the future. That is a very broad hipped man, or is a a gigantic woman..... the burial goods of a cast iron frying pan, a chainsaw and hair adornment don’t help.
As a woman with wide splaying out ribs, narrow hips and a Chad jawline which all results in me having a very male shape - thanks that id a funny and comforting thought lol.
Gotta keep people guessing.
I love that you'd have burial goods :D
Only if your hips are missing. Otherwise the difference would be incredibly obvious immediately.
@@namenloss730 Why would that make it obvious? She could just be a man with broad hips.
You can tell by the hip bones whether a person has given birth before, but not every woman does that so it would not be obvious.
I have a colleague who is intersex and we work quite closely for union matters; she is intersex herself, a vocal advocate nationally and did her PhD on the matter. I've read her thesis and it is frankly incredible and illuminating and taught me a lot about topics I considered myself already reasonably informed in!
As an aside, the "bearded woman" thing can sometimes be due to Polycystic Ovarian Syndrome (PCOS) or other similar hormonal conditions, and there is a kind of reverse (actually that historians theorise the family of Tutankhamen had) where some "feminine" traits present due to similar hormonal disruptions. What I mean to say is that yes, all these can be traits of being intersex, but they are not always. Sex and gender is always tricky, and I appreciate you covering it in the context of history as minorities of any kind are so often seemingly forgotten, and their stories are ones that should be told and remembered
I'd love to read that thesis someday, it sounds absolutely fascinating!
Apologies for the generalisation, I should have covered PCOS and Hypertrichinosis, but didn't manage to remember it all
PCOS is one of the conditions that falls under the umbrella of intersex. The aspect of PCOS that causes the numerous cysts is the fact that the ovaries produce more testosterone than they're supposed to, which leads a thickening of the walls of the ovaries so that they are more like testes, which makes it more difficult for the egg to punch through when it's released.
Intersex isn't always ambiguous external genitalia or unusual chromosome combinations (XXY, XYY, etc.), sometimes it's just hormonal differences. The fact that my polycystic ovaries produce triple the testosterone that they're supposed to is what makes me intersex.
@@TheWelshViking do you have a contact email? I can send it to you!
@@wannabe_elf huh, I've never though about it like that! I have had many hormonal disruptions myself (not PCOS, but only techically because I never had multiple cysts but hit the other issues), and when I went on spiralactin to help my hair grow back my trans friend and I had a "whoa" moment when we realised she's on the same medication as me, and the reason (increasing factors related to female secondary sex characteristics) is pretty much the same, despite her being trans-woman and me being a cis-woman!
@@wannabe_elf I know someone who has this condition. She didn't know what it was until I posed the possibility- at least not in English. She's Haitian. She told me she had an aunt with the same condition. How it seemed to manifest in her was to give her some chin hair which she was constantly battling. It seemed to pose difficulties getting pregnant. It also seemed to make her VERY horny!!! I've explored this phenomenon of intersex QUITE a bit. Yet I would have never thought of her as intersex. So I'm wondering if simply having a beard makes a woman intersex.
I know Asia isn't your area of study, but it is what I studied. I wanted to confirm that there are and always have been intersex people in Asia. Their lives are not what I focused on, but their stories still showed up in a verity of ways and they definitely existed. Just in case anyone was worried that, some how, intersex people weren't part of their history.
I am also very interested in your PhD studies! I am looking forward to that video.
I'm reminded of something my mother likes to say: "Everything you think is new has been done before". And that is something we need to keep in mind when people start spouting off about things not being known in history. Humans have always been humans and they deserve to be treated as humans.
Edit to add that I love the mini archeology rant at the end." What is bone?" had me giggling and almost woke my husband.
I know I"m three years late, but thanks for creating this, Jimmy. It means a lot.
I just happen to be intersex and transgender if there is such a combination. There are at least forty very separate intersex conditions. I happen to have a germ cell sexual body development. A condition where during gestation the germ cells failed to fully reach the developing gonads. Thus I was born with one ovotestis and one underdeveloped testis.
Even though I appear male I really see myself as a female. So so people would tend to call me transgender.
I just laugh at all the fuss that has been generated by people who have much too much time on their hands and need to worry about how we live our lives. I’ve been married for forty years and we manage to get along just fine without someone having to define who and what I am or am not.
I also have had a great deal of surgeries that were to some degree uncalled for.
Thank you for taking the time to share all of this :)
You are both informative and amusing. There is nothing "New" under the sun. The end of your video was quite amusing.
We need more forgotten history... I appreciate this. This needs to be heard by the people who don’t want to acknowledge that everyone deserves respect and autonomy.
"What is bone?" - sounds like a first line from a Shakespear's monologue
Thank you so much for this. As an intersex historian, this video really resonated with me. I love when historians can help people see their significance and worth extends into the past. Thank you for taking the time to create this video. I am so glad I found your channel.
*high five* to Editing Jimmy. You balance casual conversation, with fact checking really nicely. Thanks for correcting your real, but less than excellent moments, in the educational and humble way you do.
I am forever grateful for your refusal to generalize. I keep hearing people - especially in election season (blegh) - saying "well, gender/sex is how it has always been so get over it." Not just this video but in general your deep dives into topics are a refreshing antidote to the "this is how it has always been" attitude. Also I had way too much fun with the archeology "rant" at the end.
"What is bone?" Bone is the one that sticks to your tongue!
...I know too many archaeologists.
You know just enough archaeologists ;)
Another former archaeologist here. I'm still shaken that I actually saw a meme about this a few days ago, that only an archaeologist would get. Johnny Depp in Pirates if The Caribbean surrounded by all the white stones, picks one up, licks it, "No, not bone." Some archaeologist somewhere released a meme into the wild!
@@nikkia9506 Well I wasn't expecting to learn two new facts about biology and geology from an archaeology meme described in a youtube comment, from a video about the history of intersex people.
THE INTERNET IN ACTION.
I love so much when we crack open history again and realize there were tons of things there that didn't get noticed and/or were forgotten about because they didn't fit certain narratives. Things like gender identity, sexuality, gender roles are so ripe for this because certain people place such value judgements and insist that only one way of thinking is correct.
I have a personal pet theory that centuries from now they're going to look back at the idea of the gender binary and even the schema we used to classify gender and think we were as quaint and adorable as we do when we look back on the idea of health being related to the four humors. Like bless our hearts we tried but boy did we get a lot wrong because we didn't even know how to look at the issue.
Anyway, loved the vid. Great job!
TheBrat Queen i so hope your theory plays out. That looks more like the future I want then the fears that play in my head.
It always makes my head explode when people say that intersex people are new. People have existed on all parts of the sex and gender spectrums for all of human history. It's fun to make the heads of people who believe that explode when you explain that "primitive" cultures totally got that and had words and roles for people outside the binary.
Edit: YES to the difficulty sexing skeletons.
It's like saying that any kind of physical thing someone may be born with is somehow new like do they not understand how biology and science works lol
Supportive Uncle Jimmy is a good bean.
Thank you for making this video! I really liked it. The disclaimers about respectful words and the informations in the description are very much appreciated.
I'm so glad it was ok for you. Thanks for taking the time to leave such a lovely comment, Maze :)
As a proud member of the SCA Pirate community and ally of Clan Blue Feather, I have taught classes at reenactment events here in the North East United States, on transgender people in period. The most notable person I use is Catalina De Erauso, a former Nun from Spain who ran away from the convent and lived for 20 years as a Alonso Diaz, a Spanish soldier of fortune in South America. When their biological sex was discovered, they went first to Spain, then to Rome and was given pensions for military service and a Papal dispensation to continue to live as a man. I love this story because it proved that the Church was not as backwards and anti learning as it has been portrayed.
Catalina de Erauso was AMAZING.
Thank you for your work raising awareness and teaching about figures and parts of history of history schools refuse to acknowledging and for giving me someone to look into. Its always interesting learning about a previously unknown LGBTQ+ historic figure. I couldn't help feeling the need to check here though, but as they chose to live as a man wouldn't it be proper to refer to them by their chosen masculine name not their birth name of Catalina? Or did they speak out later to reclaim the name despite shedding it previously?
@@khaxjc1 I used the name they used to publish their autobiography with as that is the name they chose. Without actually speaking with them we actually don’t know if they were actually transgendered or just gender nonconforming. I personally tend to believe they were transgender as they returned to South America and continued to live as a man.
Would love to know what area in the NE you have events. I am a pirate community member in Atlanta. Looking to relocate to New England.
As long as humans and human cultures have existed, humans have presented with the whole panopoly of human sexuality, both physically and socially/culturally, and the ways that societies have dealt with it historically usually seemed to be a case of, “well, make your mind up” and then they were accepted as whatever gender they chose. Way back, hermaphroditism(physically) was both feared and because of that fear, they were often considered god touched and thus, were priests, and respected(kinda). In the pacific islands, Samoa specifically, you have the Fa’afafine, who are often physically male, but are sometimes physically trans, and emotionally and mentally intersex. They were treated and accepted as female....up till the missionaries arrived anyway. These days, they are still here but while there IS acceptance, there’s also that church, “gay is bad” vibe which is sad. In England in the 1600s there was the infamous cut purse and fence, Moll Frith, who was fond of men’s clothing and her pipe, and seemed to garner both affection and scandal in equal measure. There’s a story that she requested that she be buried, face down, bum up lol, a final “up yours” to the world. Moll Frith is one of my personal hero’s. The difference today is that while there are a lot of people that will never accept anything but the binary, two genders, male +female paradigm, there are others who are open to the existence of “other”. And yeah sometimes it feels like we’re howling into the wind(I was gonna use the “other” metaphor there but I’m trying to be polite), trying to have difference, otherness, heard in this world, but things ARE changing. Glacially slowly, but they are. Finally on a totally unrelated note, caught your collab with Liz from Lizcapism....very cool....coulda listened to a lot more of that “hint hint”
Sorry but what does "'emotionally and mentally intersex" mean?
As with Marvel movies, one is rewarded for sticking through the credits until the very end 😂💜
As a trans
on Binary person I have to thank you for these videos. They are super educational, and you are so respectful with these topics. Your videos really are a breath of fresh air. Thank you again for shedding light on the less talked about topics.
Thankyou for making this kind of gentle, nuanced, very human content. It's balm for the soul x
I chose my anthropology major partially because I learned about intersex people and nonhinary genders in other cultures and felt like I wasn't alone for the first time. The cool people do indeed have our backs! Thanks Jimmy. I learned tons of new things.
I know this is an older video, but I have to mention that I started crying at the after credits message. The topic of the video was super interesting (and bloody sad and depressing tbh), but your after credits message.. Just thank you I guess.
Informative and respectful. If people really think these things are only modern are crazy. People have always have differences, we're just more accepting now.
Raise your hand if you were expecting to see an Viking example, at the end. I was hoping it was that random person strolling by, in the background at the end. I'm laughing at my expectations. Very enjoyable chat, Jimmy. Thank you for opening the conversation.
stay to watch the hidden few seconds... glad I did *)
Haha! I'd have loved it if I'd been able to co-ordinate that.
Alas, I tried to find a viable example of the Vikings discussing intersex people, but failed to do so. They were almost certainly aware, but didn't write much. Happy to be presented with evidence though!
Alot of what we know about vikings are really limited to what's in the eddas and archaeological finds sadly. I think there was polyamory in there culter but as far as other things go it's harder to know
@@lunawolfheart336 There was to a degree. We know that some sources from the Viking period itself refer to men having concubines, but it's certainly not polyamory in the way we think about it today!
Hermaphrodites & The Medical Invention of Sex, by Alice Dreger is a great resource. And thank you Jimmy for calling people's attention to the hermstorical lives of intersex.
Here in the Southwest, they are said to be between the worlds. and are generally thought to be a good thing, a special spirit.
I haven't really studied this really since college (class of 2005), so I really enjoyed the refresher. It's also just great to have a video that covers the subject rather well, without being too long for a casual viewer. I also applaud you for including the resources you mentioned at the end!
This channel is so wholesome❤❤❤
Thanks, Jimmy for yet another great video!
As a nonbinary intersex queer person (who just discovered your channel, instant sub my friend ❤️) it's so refreshing and empowering to see perisex/dyadic individuals elevating the voices of intersex people and our history, and affirming that we've always been part of history as much as anyone else. A majority of pre-christian cultures had words and descriptions for intersex or gender and sex variant people even if they don't exactly translate to modern gender labels or terminology (except in some cases like the Jewish intersex varieties (tumtum, androgynos, and a third I can't recall), indigenous American two spirit, and the Indian hijra), and many considered us sacred or divine, even! Nature isn't binary, the world isn't defined in black and white without intermediary greys, and many forget that defining something as complex as sex or gender is not so simple and contrasted like binarist colonial idealogies believe.
Intersex people especially are often left behind in advocacy and even still it's legal for us to be medically abused in a majority of places. So often we are forced with no say into picking a "side" before were old enough to protest, or are pressured into the same as children, teens, or young adults. I myself only recently found that I'm intersex because my condition is covert and presents itself in late teens, so as a child it went unseen. I was among the lucky ones not given nonconsensual surgeries or operations as a child, but many aren't so lucky to evade that treatment.
Thank you for educating about us and speaking about something so many people would rather pretend doesn't exist. ✨🙏✨
Also as a note it's very important to account that intersex people sometimes do not have ambiguous genitals or gonads at all and sometimes the condition is predominantly of a hormonal nature it's just a matter of Which Condition is causing it. There's also grey areas, for example some with PCOS can be considered intersex and identify as such because they experience hyperandrogenism which causes them to be oppressed the same ways, but hyperandrogenism is the criteria for intersexness under this condition, not PCOS itself. Not everyone with PCOS is intersex but some are welcomed under the umbrella due to their experiences as they also experience medical abuse, pressure, and dogmatic practices. In the medical field there is misconception that NO PCOS classifies as intersex but that's a matter of academic dogma and bias that intends to shrink our numbers on paper to maintain the "rarity" myth. We're not exactly common but certainly not rare.
NCAH (my condition) and hyperandrogenic PCOS are some of the most underacknowledged intersex variants, because we present as more "binary" anatomically and are more easily "medically corrected' as a result, often doctors will diagnose the condition but tell the patient that they're not "actually" intersex, despite them clearly existing outside of biological perisex/dyadic phenotype standards. There's also an entire medical industry built on shaming people with hyperandrogenic intersex conditions like NCAH and PCOS in people assigned female at birth into "becoming more feminine" with pressure to remove extra body and facial hair, take estrogen and lower androgen levels for cosmetic reasons, etc. Also, NCAH is often misdiagnosed as PCOS by lazy doctors who don't want to test for everything, which also reduces our documented population because the medical field currently excludes PCOS despite many with PCOS being included in our own community by intersex people. This results in most AFAB hyperandrogenic people being diagnosed with PCOS, told "oh you're not "actually intersex" we can "fix" it", and then comes the shaming and medical pressure to conform.
Also as an aside related to this tangent anyone reading this please remember intersex people aren't sterile or infertile by default and many are able to reproduce, which destroys the misconception that we're broken evolutionary failures. The myth that no intersex people can ever reproduce is another part of the medical dogma of the contemporary age that exists to marginalize us and make us appear to be inherently biologically flawed.
It's imperitive in my view as an intersex person that we do not allow perisex medical academics to define what we are, because they're our most direct oppressors.
Also a small correction! The percentage of known intersex population is at least 4% of the world but it's most assuredly more than that due to underdiagnosis and covert intersex conditions
This was so interesting, and I had heard of almost none of it! The idea that any of this is simple and binary, or that it's some new modern thing is so foolish.
As a trans person I'd just like to say that I think you're a good egg and I appreciate this content. And thank you for the "making a big fuss can embarrass people, just be cool and move on" bit!
the best part of this video is that i can understand it perfectly without subtitles. also that it's super informative. rock on mr viking :)
also i've seen claims that intersex is as common as 1 in 20 people (so 5% of humans). haven't seen a source but since it came from an intersex information site i'm not super worried about it being wrong
Some of us have RECLAIMED the HERM term! And it must be understood that intersex is not determined only by one's genitals! Way too much focus on the genital configuration!
Thanks so much man, this helped me massively with my masters deegree
ONE PERCENT?! Wow, how on earth does society understand/accept so little about intersex people when it's so common! That is mind-blowing!
Also since you just casually revealed that you can (at least) read French I'm curious as to how many languages you can read and speak?
I read Welsh, English, and French pretty fluently. I have enough Italian to know what I'm doing, my Gaelic is basic, my German rudimentary, and my Russian and Greek are appalling.
@@TheWelshViking that is seriously impressive!
@@TheWelshViking Beindruckend!
It's absolutely not that common.
It's 1% only if you try to include all people with atypical genetic and hormonal traits.
You need to count things like klinefelter syndrome (XXY) which are males with small penises, testies, and are mostly sterile. Most of the people included as intersex under those conditions do not have any visible clues or perceivable impacts. They would never have been viewed as intersex/hermaphrodite/... at any point in history until modern medicine. And most will never know of their "condition".
Trying to push an "intersex" identity on those people is the same as trying to push a label on me for my chiari that was randomly discovered after an accident but has no effect on my life.
Very refreshing to see a viking enthusiast Who isnt a bigot. Much love❤️❤️
Thank you for saying what needs to be said.
You remind me of a cross between early H Bomber and Simon Roper, excellent video
Wonderful video.
17:35 Daily Affirmations with Jimmy
It's so refreshing and heartening to see a straight white man (I am assuming you're straight, do forgive and correct me if I'm wrong) being a proper ally in a non-arrogant, non-conceited way! You show up with historical sources, thoroughly researched info, love, acceptance, and support, and it's just so wonderful, every time. Thanks for that, Jimmy, much love!
I was an acquaintance and client of Ms. Sid back in the 70s. She was the first transgender person in our state and was murdered in 77 or 78 (I'm sorry I can't remember the exact year)
It was horrifying what she went through prior to her death. Her bravery is what I remember the most about her.
Subscribed for this. I'm quite picky in subscriptions, and watch lots of history channels, but when someone comes up with such historically grounded, humble, humanity-focused material that I feel like helps me understand my present day world better? Priceless.
Well said and informative. Thank you for delving into this history. You are wonderful. You are definitely one of the cool people.Thanks for sharing.
Thank you for this important and erased history! It's baffling how many people think intersex people are a made up modern thing when we have evidence of people being born this way since the dawn of history
That was fascinating. Thank you very much.
I'm both interested in historical clothing and culture and in LGBTIQ* rights. So I'm thrilled to hear something that combines the two topics.
It's long overdue to outlaw the genital mutilation of intersex children. (And genital mutilation in general.)
I don't remember how I got recommended this video anymore, whether youtube put it in my orbit or another intersex person pointed me here, but I just wanted to take the opportunity to say thank you for making this video. It may not be possible to fit the entirety of intersex (or any other identity's) history into a video, you've done a great job of touching on so many areas, many of which I didn't know much about, and really digging into the emotional and meaningful aspects of that history as well. You've made me feel loved and happy today.
throwin it out there that "transgender" is preferred over "transsexual," which is considered antiquated (unless someone specifically prefers that label)
Seconded, I know he didn't mean it negatively but still made me cringe a little
Absolutely my bad. I normally don't use the word and blame my own stupidity and reading old articles for my mistake. Apologies to all.
@@TheWelshViking It's a learning curve! Definitely understand when looking at older sources. Thank you for your openness to criticism :)
@@hannahb6442 Mistakes get made a *lot* in my little world, so I have to recognise it! XD
Thank you Ray, I am trying to educate myself and all of this helps.
I don't care what sex/gender you are. If your nice, I like you, if your mean, I don't like you
Thank you for spreading awareness and information. It's amazing how much information can be found in places you might not think of looking at first, like the legal documents in this case. Also, I find it fascinating how different cultures have had different approaches to the same phenomenon. It tells a lot about how they observed and understood the surrounding world.
This...made me so freaking happy just seeing this thumbnail. I recently had discovered I am intersex and this made me feel so...so happy and validated. Thank you, thank you so much. Thank you, thank you, thank you, for just touching on our existence, thank you for giving me more proof to tell people that I exist and I am valid. Thank you...(I'm crying while writing this so I'm sorry I'm saying thank you so much)
Bless you! I’m not surprised you’re emotional if it’s 4am where you are!
You’re a valid and valued human being, and anyone who says otherwise can take a long jump off a short pier. Take care!
@@TheWelshViking this made my entire day
And your comments made mine! Thanks for the much needed positivity boost! :)
Thank you. I'm not an intersex person, and I don't know any intersex people. That is to say, if I know any intersex people, they have never seen a reason to tell me that they are intersex. My stake in this topic is just the fact that intersex people just that, people. I don't like it when my fellow humans suffer indignities for merely existing. Anyone with a platform using their voice to make any of us feel less alone get's a thank you from me. So again, thank you.
Disclaimer: This is based on documentary and a bit of research, I am by no means is an expert in this case. So if you know more or I got something wrong do correct me :)
This reminds me of a murder case from the late 19th century here in Denmark. A boy was killed while living in an orphanage. The murderer was the warden Vilhelmine Møller, a strongly religious woman who was a genius in childrearing. She was present-day-modern in her approach to the concept of childhood and for that the children liked her (no wonder when the alternative is a beating and "stop being a child"). She was highly regarded for her work and dedication. During the murder case something was off and the judge ordered a mental and physical examination and to the surprise of all she was deemed intersex (my wording). But because she had underdeveloped male parts - being visible compared to ovaries - she was forced to become a man being moved to a male prison and then a male ward in a workhouse. The court had to go to the king and get a decree changing her assigned gender, because the law was so binary it was impossible to prosecute her for the murder (don't ask my why or how, but apparently it was the case).
In her journals she seems to say she felt more inclined towards the female side, hence my pronoun choice.wereHer assignment to male did allow her to marry a woman she had met while she was in the female prison. The woman was one of the guards.
It lead to a big debate in different spheres about what the female and male gender is. It was raised in a medical journal and argued that someone who had lived 38 years as a woman couldn't be expected to live, act and be a man just with a decision. Someone in that situation could be called (as apparently was a thing in Jutland - a (then) rural part of Denmark) a 'neither'.
Sadly over all it lead to vilifying unmarried and/or elderly women who were assumed to be men in disguise. The reasoning being that women who lead a life without a man present of course become perverted. Isn't that a novel reaction!
But why did she murder the boy?
great video 👍
This is such a lovely video. My heart is officially warmed. Thanks, Jimmy!
This was such a great positive video! I love that you do your videos from a tree it honestly gives such chill vibes. And I hope field work went well and was fun and above all produced some juicy data because we love data!
Thank you for the information and to open the conversation.
The end rant about assigning a sex to a skeleton and your discussion with the horizontal line gave me a much needed giggle this morning.
Also, the video was amazing, as usual! Glad to hear your fieldwork went/is going well 👍☺️
Dude, you’re my new favourite TH-camr. Thank you for using historical and archaeological evidence to dismiss the validity of hate, and enforce the idea that humanity is a beautiful, nuanced and sophisticated thing.
Your verbal hug at the end got me tearing up! (As someone who afaik fits the conventional binary comfortably!)
One of the random Zoom chat groups I've found myself in during lockdown is one for trans people and their allies (it's mostly women, but not all); one of the conversations that came up was around biologically intersex people (many of whom may have no idea that they might not be the gender they were assigned at birth), and the statistic quoted was around 1 in 60!
For the scientifically interested, there are some good talks on the RI channel, which totally debunk the idea that gender is a simple XY binary!
catherinerw1 just wanted to just if by RI channel you meant the royal institute?
@@khaxjc1 Yes, sorry, I do. C
Hmm. I had no idea that the term hermaphrodite had fallen out of favor, thank you.
I have always been against sex assignment at birth so I actually had an escape plan when my kiddos were born (over 18 years ago) if they had been born intersexed.
You learn new things everyday. Now to go reprogram my lexicon...
As a genderqueer person, I appreciated hearing your views on the historical representations of non-binary folks. I wish I'd had the words for how I felt about gender growing up. It took me twenty years to sort things out. The cool people definitely have our backs. Take care, Jimmy.
I was unbelievably happy to find this video! I'm non-binary and while I am not intersex, reading about intersex people throughout history and mythology was a comfort for me when I was younger. You might like the Babylonian/Sumerian myths of Asushunamir. If you're interested, you can find multiple translations/tellings online(though some use pretty dated language). That myth was what first got me into Babylonian history and mythology.
Another related(and awful) story from America: during what's widely considered the first "mud-slinging" campaign in U.S election history, John Quincy Adams was accused of being intersex and thus ineligible to run. I can't remember if he was subject to examination but either way, telling...
lovely, clear, accepting, and so needed. thank you.
Just discovered this gem of a channel and binging the lot of it. Da iawn ti!
This is a brilliant video, and there's a lot here I wasn't aware of. Honestly, this content is such a breath of fresh air, and a wonderful pick-me-up.
I'm not intersex but I am non-binary trans and I just want to thank you for making such an informative video on this subject! I really wish more people understood that intersex and trans people have always existed. It's tough times out there for us at the moment and it's always encouraging to find folks who are supportive!
I'm intersex and trans. I'm AMAB but have fairly strong Partial Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome, plus I've felt that my gender identity aligns solidly as woman and has since I can remember
Thank you for the reasoned discourse on this matter, in the absolute hellscape that being trans in 2022, when being subjected to abusive rhetoric from terfs, they conveniently forget that a) we're human, b) we exist, c) its not a fucking choice, d) SERIOUSLY STOP IT ffs, e) we've been here all along, and f) there's no absolute gender binary, intersex people existing make this pretty bloody clear
That video somehow fit well with the podcast I am listening to right now.
"Not the things you thought you knew" by Dr. Fern Ridell. I do reccommend
I have to say, your content makes me so happy and teaches me so much! I can always trust to have a good time playing your videos while doing a project. It makes the time go by so much faster and I feel so productive!
Can I just make a slight correction here or explain more fully that it is more true to say that non-binary is a term for people who do not conform to the gender binary but people with INTERSEX characteristics have BODIES that do not conform to traditional and medicalised definitions of male or female. It is not a gender identity (for most people with intersex traits, tho it might be part of their identity). INTERSEX is about the body, about one's SEX rather than one's social gender.
*vigorously subscribes *
Interesting video as always. Bones are apparently why my mom chose cultural anthropology instead. :)
Absolutely fantastic video about a totally unexpected topic.
Brilliant.
I'm so glad I discovered your channel! Being in lockdown has been hard and being able to listen to you talk while I make jewelry or cook food has been such a comfort. You have such a nice way of teaching history and a great sense of humour! I hope your channel grows more.
This was kinda uplifting to watch while refilling meds for, amongst others, a condition that makes me the bearded lady. My facial hair does not make me special, historically. Gotta survive past forty to achieve that one.
Good old Pliny the elder huh? He seems to have had a lot to say about almost everything. 😁
Thanks for such an interesting video! Much appreciated. I wondered what was happening last week when there wasn't a video. Glad your studies are going well even with the fresh lockdown in the UK.
Have you had a chance to check out that Turkish historical drama I recommended to you a while back?
This was really interesting! Thank you!
love a good nuanced look at what we perceive as "modern"
I think it was sometime in the 90's when I read an article about intersex - "hermaphrodite" babies that had until recently before that time been in bulk surgically "corrected" into girls, based only on the fact that it was technically an easier operation to hack off the dangly bits than to do the opposite. And the babies' parents then proceeded to condition them (and also - with the medical assistance of the oh so helpful medical providers - stuffed them with all possible hormonal drugs to further "correct" their physical development) to behave and serve as females in society.
Giggles at the very end.
I’m really happy to see this subject pop up in something other than medical documentary type videos, while they’re very good videos, it gives the impression that intersex people are to be pitied and that the forced assignment of gender that has been perpetrated by the medical community was ‘a good thing’ even when the person in question had their world completely turned upside down when they finally found out that they were, in fact, intersex! I’m glad that parents have the option now to refuse to have their child’s gender decided on before they can make their own choices, even though the medical community will still try to pressure parents to a ridiculous degree! Hopefully more people will be educating themselves and advocating for their children instead of making a choice that’s hugely premature and possibly not even needed! Thank you for sharing all the interesting historical information that, I hope, will help parents make a more informed decision!
Also, “What is bone?” Is going to be in my head for a while! ROTFLMFAO!
There must have been a time in the world before anyone named all the various colors. That doesn't mean the whole spectrum didn't exist yet or that every flower anyone saw was some shade of gray. May we never let words or the lack of them define what we experience nor limit how we perceive the the world and our own place in it.
You are officially my new favorite youtuber, I'm looking forward to seeing much more of your content. We need more open-minded and progressive history youtubers!
So I came to the channel directly from the Why Horned Helmets collab. I went to see what videos were here to find, saw this and immediately clicked while saying "hell yes". Im not intersex. Im just someone who find sit insane and shameful that it is still propitiated that, and Im quoting here, "it started with Adam and Eve. Thats how it is and how its always been." The number of people I have talked to who have no idea oronly have horribly butchered information. Then there is the discussion of gender and pronouns and I hear these arguments using "History" to prop up their prejudice ideas and just want to cry with frustration.
As a prime example, some time back I was having a conversation with my uncle's friend and I haven't been able to let it go. It pops back into my head over and over. We had been discussing history and how so many people dont learn from it with things repeating over and over and people acting like its new which led to talking about a lobster that was getting a bunch of attention for reproducing without a mate and how people were acting like this was new. I mentioned how I followed a comic series that was all about teaching people about how different species reproduce and species that have more than just binary sexes. All my uncle's friend needed to hear was binary and he went off about how the idea of non binary or anything other than male female is just a fad. And how when an archeologist digs up your bones they will look at them and declare you male or female so that shows how it is. After just talking about people not learning from history he had then gaul to say that. So hearing you talk about sexing bones at the end was like balm.
Beyond loving to hear the topic of gender discussed through the lens of history, I also thoroughly enjoyed the humor, and thoughtfulness and how it came off not like a lecture but a sharing of information. And the care with which you proceeded! Trying to be thoughtful of sensitivities and just. Im so happy I came across this channel and the collab cause this is the best Friday night Ive had since my area first went into lockdown.
Im sorry this comment isn't its best. The last several days have been extremely stressful with much anxiety and little sleep. Its only ten pm but I'm completely exhausted and just a bit out of it. There were several times I could not think of a word or how to phrase things. Im fairly certain I failed to accurately express what Im feeling and thinking but the core of it is Thank you. Thank you so much for this video and being the kind of person who would put in the effort to make a video about this. Im very happy to have discovered this channel and am looking forward to exploring it more.
As a they/them I appreciated the way you corrected your accidental misgendering (and put an informational slide in there). Honestly if the acknowledgement or apology is necessary to the misgenderer in the slap-your-forehead-if-you-forget-your-keys way that it seems to be, I kinda wish more people would just go "ah, f*ck," correct themselves, and move on - it would certainly save conversational time! I appreciate that you left it in and made it a teachable moment
(Also, free tip to anyone reading this: a good way to get used to using someone's pronouns is, whenever you misgender them whether verbally or in your head, say or think three sentences about that person deliberately using their pronouns)
A note on generalizations at 8:56: the bearded woman -- I do believe that there are biological women with naturally occurring high levels of androgens who are not intersex.
(Forgot to thank you for this video, so: thank you! looking forward to the next in the series)
Indeed. I believe that endometriosis, PCOS and related issues can cause facial hirsuteness.
100%, this was something I meant to cover and it slipped by.
@@TheWelshViking I am sorry, other people have made the same comment I did, I should have realized.
@@azteclady No apology needed, it's worth pointing out, and it's something I should have included :)
Also, you don’t even necessarily have to have high androgen levels for this to occur. Hair follicles can just be unusually sensitive to androgens, so even average hormonal levels can result in some whiskers.
Really glad to see this being taken both seriously because of the historical and present suffering and also lightly because making such a huge deal of this is so absurd.
People have always been people, brains are weird, bodies are weird.
16:54 for people needing love.
This is the contect I'm here for, askign the serious and deep questions. What is bone?
There is a book written in the US in the 70s called Hanta Ho (I can’t remember the author, sorry) which is a written account of the history of the Lakota People, with a few individuals picked out. There were 7 recorded “man-becoming-woman” people in the tribe, who were not only accepted but thought to have special abilities, even be shamans. A great book!
I was busy in the room and thought you’d signed off with, “what is bone?” And after a few beats I hear you talking to your camera! Lol bonus footage, eh?
Abhorrent things were still being done to children without their consent of knowledge when I was a teenager 😢
Thank you for talking about this! Would of been nice to not just cover Western views on intersex. Guess that gives you something to talk about next year for intersex awareness day :)
Alas I had limited time for research and videomaking, and my main subject area is medieval Europe, but heck yeah! Let's do another one focusing on other areas!
You present the Islamic Law regarding intersex people as if it's a compassionate recognition of their nonbinary status, but in fact it was intended to ensure an intersex person couldn't gain the legal rights granted to men or women. At least the Christian Law and Jewish Law approaches of requiring intersex people to identify as either men or women ensured they would get the legal rights of one group, rather than none.
wonderfully informative!! this is exactly what im here for my guy
Thank you so much for this video! As someone who is not intersex, but is on the spectrum of gender not at either end, I appreciate it.
Thank you for making this! It’s so nice to hear about this history even if it’s sad that we’ve backtracked on so much of the good parts
hiya, i just wanted to say, as a trans person (i'm not intersex, but reading about both intersex and trans people throughout history has been a point of comfort and solidarity for me), i found this video super lovely! nothing in history has ever been absolute, least of all humans, and its essential for attention to be drawn to that fact! so thank you so much for putting out this content, it's very much appreciated :)
Finding ways to incorporate gender nonconformity into my creative-anachronism persona has been an interesting challenge! I started by reading about eunuchs in the Byzantine empire, trying to suss out how such people presented themselves. Alas, most of the sources are about fancy guys who worked in the palace with their gold robes and badges of rank and silk slippers. I'm looking for the medieval misfits! Criminals, sex workers, entertainers, the spicy underbelly that exists in every society. If you have any tips on tracking them (and their clothes, so I can bite their style) down, please share!
Maybe I should look into circuses next.
I'm not sure that the "spicy underbelly" is really the place to look for gender nonconformity, honestly. In the past, as we saw, many cultures forced people to pick one binary option and go with it, or suffer serious consequences up to and including death at times.
Criminals, sex workers, circus performers and entertainers generally didn't have a uniform, as we might like them to, and wore whatever clothing reflected their position in society, or whatever finery they could afford, just like everyone else. For many, of course, that wasn't very much. Sadly, the criminal classes weren't necessarily any more accepting than anyone else, in any given period.
Since we're talking creative anachronism, the way you interpret this one is up to you, but maybe consider just wearing the clothes of the gender/s you don't present usually? That was what Thomasine Hall did, and it was enough to "out" them as intersex in the early 1600s.