Yes. But that's also the point of it. The entire film is about religion as a means of control, right? It's not a coincidence that it was written with two Mormon girls traveling together (not two Mormon boys), and that all the people kept in cages in the basement are women. The one major thing that all that all the main religions have in common besides control in general, is that they all contain elements of encouraging the subservience of women. Religion is used as a vessel for the subjugation of women, but because women are raised to believe the doctrine, they actively participate in it and consent to it. So of course it's a guy mansplaining to two girls about belief and then proving his point.
@@parissinclair6513 i accept your point but my identity as a black woman affects my thoughts on the movie and why i summarized it the way that i did. this movie was akin to margaret atwood's handmaid tail which made white woman shocked with horror at the hypothetical things they could be subjected to meanwhile...black and brown people were like not only did these things actually happen...it happened to US and not YOU.
@@parissinclair6513 Personally, this movie is just as much a commentary on whiteness if not more than religion and control. If you changed the gender or race of the villian it changes the commentary entirely. The fact that the villian was a white man who had zero commentary or challenges to face throughout the movie besides from the victims/prisoners who just wanted out of his lair felt lazy. That's already the general and most common power dynamic which is why i reduced the movie to: "a guy mansplaining to two girls that he already intended to kill". We already know most serial killers are men. We already know men carry out a lot of dominance and violence. We also know that religion went hand in hand with wars and bloodshed. Just as the movie would be different with two boy missionaries. The movie's meaning (to me) is reduced because the world building is limited and follow a linear story arc. The villain lost the human aspect because we didn't learn how he got to this point, about his wife, anything. He was 2D to me but i respect if you feel differently if he groommed the girls or someone else intervened or said something it wouldn't sound like a run on monologue but i respect if you feel differently
@@morethanyourbasicsomg as a latina raised evangelical, the second the movie ended i thought they should have made one of the sister missionaries black and brought up the history of mormonism and blackness idk mormons are so……. white
@@parissinclair6513 because why though? Good fiction needs to provide good cause to help one believe the fiction is real. By him being worse than what he's (allegedly) trying to disprove, would only support that he is worse. Hence, is he really trying to convert to his point of view, or as morethanyourbasics stated, he just wants to get women in cages regardless of whether he can win their minds?
I genuinely love that you went into a full discussion of this movie even though you were so underwhelmed by it - this is one of the things that I enjoy about this channel
I agree with everything, except two things: 1) I actually liked the first scene, but not because I felt it was an allegory for the story. I just found it a funny way to start the film and show us the difference between these characters. Sister Paxton, naive and curious. Sister Barnes, experienced and sensible. 2) Maxxxine was the biggest letdown of 2024
This movie is like getting a brand new Lamborghini for Christmas and driving it all around town in excitement for 8 days. Then on new years, someone comes and tells you "sorry gotta take it back because it's actually just a rental".
Maxxxine the film where she knocks on the back of the cinema's door and the guy who lives in a room that is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay far away from the door instantly hears her and responds?
as someone who is exmormon, I can't disagree more. Really touched me personally, resonated with my personal experiences in the church and I think the thriller aspect was done spectacularly. The acting was great and I think the explaining portions were as well. The film wants to get you to question your beliefs and I can point out so many little details that stuck with me that they did so well. It all made sense to me honestly (emotional sense). 9/10 film
@@vfxtutswithdan1893 it's hard to put into words because so much of the sister missionaries remind me of how life was like growing up. The ending and Sister paxton's take on prayer really hit me like a punch to the gut. Reminded me a lot of my faith crisis and how strong my feelings about God once were. I think her relationship with her faith was wonderful and nuanced and it just made me... feel a lot of things. It's also just a really intense movie so I was pretty strung out just from seeing all the thriller elements which for me were a bit hard to stomach, partially because of how much i didn't want the sisters to get hurt and how believable the characters were to me.
@@taylorallen1187 So you used to have strong feelings about God but you don't anymore? Not to get too personal, but what happened? I've seen people go through this process before. It's tough to watch.
@@vfxtutswithdan1893 Not to get too specific about my personal life, but yeah I was raised Mormon and felt I had a very close relationship to God and Jesus for most of my life. I realized that everything I was told to do (praying, being temple worthy, etc.) was not improving my life and that I was blaming myself for everything bad that happened because I wasn't "worthy enough" even though on paper I was. I started the deconstruction process and after about a year of research and contemplation decided I didn't want to be in the church anymore. But being mormon was still a huge part of me for most of my life and I still have strong feelings that resurface from time to time regarding God and prayer because it was programmed into my brain that way for so long.
Yeah i was going to say the same. If you had expectations that weren't exact to the actual film, ofc you'd feel "disappointed". I had ZERO expectations and came out pleasantly entertained. The conversations especially around Mormonism evolving away from polygamy to go with modern times was a good point, it makes you question what else can the religion change and why haven't they. Hugh Grants character is a thought-provoker, not some new horror icon entry.
The movie was so good and interesting during the first half and then falls off around the time the first girl dies. Then it just turns into a Scobby doo episode. I feel like it had so much potential and it lost it all in an attempt to a fast conclusion. Suddenly the suspense was lost for me. The build up was very interesting though.
That's odd, I saw the thought provoking thriller twice. But I agree that the movies raises so many questions. One of the questions that really intrigued me was the one asked during the Cages Women scene where Mr. Reed is asked, "Why to you do this?" while Mr. Reed replies, "Why do you let me?". Understanding that Mr.Reed represents a personification of the Church/Religion, the question reverberates loudly when you consider all the power plays for control and atrocities committed by the religious groups/cults. I personally reflected on the publicly documented cases of Church abuse of children. It became standard protocol for the churches to silence the victims while simply relocating the clergyman to a new location where the offender still has access to children. Hence, the question "Why to you do this?". But allegation of their type and magnitude have been levied against the church for a long time. Frequently they would rise and fall in the news cycles. Despite the public awareness, vulnerable segments of our population are still fueled through the predatory faith organization. Hence the question, "Why do you let me?". Why? Why don't we protect ourselves and our vulnerable loved ones when it comes to these institution? Why are we so quick to forgive? What kind of subconscious psychological conditioning is at work? There should be more movies of the kind. As Socrates famously said, “The unexamined life is not worth living.”
Older generations taught younger generations that we have no support, they convinced them that it's not us letting this happen to us, but that it is pointless to fight it, because no one will help them, so it's pointless to defend one self. Thankfully someone clued in that there sure is a lot of people fvcking lamenting over the same fvcking thing and not acting on it for change. Depression and abuse paved a lot of the way for our species, because of the word, thankfully, no. We also don't have to be abused or go through heavy depression to know what we don't like, and to know what is no life to live. When parents stop lying to their kids, all just for a moment of silence, or something else, just to get their way, instead of properly explaining the truth of things, or even just a time out to speak about it later in a better location and actually follow-thru.
As somebody who has a lot of gripes with organized religion, I saw this one tonight with my friend who is very Christian and we both ended up really enjoying it! May not be everybody's taste but this was easily my favorite film of the year (still gotta see The Substance though.)
I understand how anybody can like this movie through the 1st and 2nd act. Great movie at that point. Unfortunately after the 3rd act, how anyone can still call this a good movie is beyond me.
@@jaysony8587 Totally agreed! The third act did somewhat break the immersion for me personally, but not to the point where it ruined my enjoyment of the film. Still loved this one!
Yea, I loved it! Really entertaining! Didn't find it scary, more of a thriller. Sorry you didn't like it! Sounds like you had big expectations for it. Maybe because I didn't see the trailers for it, only once back in August!
I think the movie was inherently always going to end up being more surface level than most would hope for but I fully expected that going in. Any movie with regular movie length could never effectively discuss this topic to it's fullest degree or close. This one also still needed to be a horror film on top of it all. The directors were not even expecting it to hit the big screens at first, only streaming. For the limits, this film was so freakin effective and thought-provoking. The movie presented me the ideas and I was able to continue those thought experiments in my own head during and afterward. Huge success for me tbh!
Even at the feature film length - if Grant's character actually believed that his methods revealed something divine.... then the whole film takes on such a different spin. That he always knew he was not a believer in anything and only like torturing women is a pitiful disguise
I also agree. A sadistic killer mansplaining. As if it wasn't bad enough that you were going to get killed, you had to spend your last hours listening to his sophomoric ramblings.
Isn't that the same thing as the two girls in their womanplaining their side of the religion.? Did you think that big word up all by yourself! Here's your cookie now go play in your playpen.
@@robd1859hugh grant is that you? They LITERALLY say what the man in the movie does and here u are BUT BUT WOMEN SPLAINING WOMEN THIS WOMEN THAT WE MEN DO NOTHING WE INNOCENT WE VICTIM 😂
I loved this movie because it’s very thought provoking and I do think that he was on to something. Christianity does have a monopoly on all the other religions and most religions rely on fear and control hence to why control is the one true religion
26:54 THIS! I 1000 % agree. Honestly, I think his British accent adds a sense of empty profoundness. I went in with an open mind as I also used to have a strong practicing fearful faith. My college philosophy class made me question everything. Also the quick character change of Paxton from meek awkward mouse to final girl Sherlock Holmes Velma was a STRETCH. It really was just crazy coocoo man going stabby stabby. I took the ending as Paxton died due to blood loss and she was hallucinating escaping ( her phone still didn't have signal when she got outside) and the butterfly was her projecting her own desires after death ( wanting to come back as a butterfly). When the butterfly disappears, I interpreted that the escape wasn't real.
I thought the discussions on theology was quite good. Where the movie lost me is when the girls went through their chosen door but it didn’t amount to anything. And that zombie women subplot made zero sense.
After 24 hours from watching this and having time to resonate, here are my thoughts: It's revealed the 2 girls don't necessarily fall into some either/or camp of belief or disbelief. But Grant, as if he's some teenage redditor, assumes this about these 2 young girls who are complete strangers and forcibly subjects his self valued intellect on them. He's old though which makes it less believable, and regardless of whether they choose belief or disbelief, we realize he's still going to lead them to a dead end basement- so why go through all those mediocre philosophical constructs? Watching an old man with 16 year old takes seems the real torture, especially since unlike the religions he's critiquing, he's nowhere close to controlling their minds. As with his one prisoner who betrayed him by going off script, he really has little control. The game is unbelievable because by being more cruel than your average religion and by having less success on coercion by converting, he's only owning himself, and it's embarrassing to watch. By the end of the movie, no one is psychologically in a different place. There really weren't any premises brought up that would have illuminated a Philosophy 101 student, as anything brought up was so forced and rushed through- there was no platonic dialogue or time for anyone to experience a philosophical transformation, positively or negatively. Maybe a high school audience would find something interesting about this, but for anyone over 25, whether an agnostic who has studied religion through the lens of something which has developed through evolutionary biological, or someone who attends a mainstream synagogue or traditional church, the Margaret Atwood takes or the 16 yr old Nietzsche reading takes of this movie in the comments are laughable. The fact that this movie has a decent Rotten Tomatoes score probably says something about literacy and the lack of intellectual discourse in our society more than anything.
Also, yes to your “feels like a first-draft” sentiment. I can’t help but walk away from this movie and mourning what could have been; the basement should have been a series of rooms and challenges and impossible in size, yet it feels like Mr. Reed slapped together what he could like a kid attempting to do his school project the night before it’s due. He should have offered a better experience to match the competency of his conversational skills, but the effort just isn’t there. It’s like the cursed Willy Wonka experiment that was highlighted in the news earlier this year
I feel like that was the point, though. That his thought process was complex and nuanced but his execution of it was supposed to be rudimentary and shakey because he was, in fact, not an all powerful being. Just some crazed man with some intense beliefs about control. it seems like it had worked for him before, many times. I also think that if it was an impossible series of tunnels and doors it would’ve taken away from the reality. If it had been that fantastical then it wouldn’t have been so unnerving because it would’ve made you think that maybe he was some sort of supernatural being. I think what makes it unnerving is that it really was just some guy who obsessed over this concept to the point that he made his home into a trap to prove a point that only he cared to prove.
I’d also like to add that the idea of control being the ultimate “religion” was something that is prove-able just through action. He’s controlling the entire situation up until the point of his “prophet” defying him and when that is figured out, he asserts dominance over her by cutting off her finger, thereby reinforcing the idea that he is all powerful, just in the same way that people believe that God is all powerful. The roads cross here with the idea of sin being punishable by god. If you defy god, you will be punished. And in that way, he was right about control being what makes religion so powerful. there is something to be said about fear being so powerful that it shakes sister Paxton and Barnes into deceit several times, which is a sin and therefore needs to be punished, which they are. So it’s kind of left ambiguous on whether or not god exists because obviously he never proved that god didn’t exist, just that he was more powerful in that moment by being physically overbearing.
The movie is multi-layered, complicated tool which opens up to penetrate your mind in a very sneaky way, like a really exquisite perfume. Oh yes, it definitely not just "fucks around", it actually fucks up your mind instead. Hugh Grant doesn't play "just a coocoo old man" or a "serial killer" - he plays God. And we got to admit that he's damn good in it!
Exactly. It was very good to me. Like blink twice, watching the way both girls went into survival mode in different ways: flight fight or freeze. In the end, the one who was thought to be the believer, was turned on its head. She whole time knew it wasn’t true but adhered to the doctrine bc it brings humans together
@@MeghannMonroeyes, I think the survival modes is a really important point here. But also the fourth and often forgotten one, "fawn" or appease, which sister Paxton (the more innocent one) exhibited perfectly. I think part of the interest of this movie is the psychological and human behavior aspect. Perhaps it is also a more interesting and thought provoking film for women than for men. Given that women are often socialized to be polite and nice more than men, and I think what the girls experienced simulates a more extreme version of what most women experience on a daily basis.
The problem is the film hints at an even better point and then does not deliver. We as the audience never have our own crisis of faith because the plot is just spelled out in such clear and unambiguous steps - except for the girl who was stabbed in the neck coming back to life for just a moment. That actually offends the audience because it is a conceit without an explanation.
The trailer made me hesitant because it only has the premise and never escalates. Maybe it was just a good trailer that didn’t spoil anything, or maybe the story is disappointingly surface-level. Sounds like it was the latter. I watched through the spoiler part because I’m never gonna watch this most likely, so appreciate the review.
I expressed the same on another review that praised it, and all the Heretic fans came and said i was dumb, the movie was too complex for me. Like what??? Nothing was complex about it. 😂😂 Mr. Reeves had a great start, genuinely challenging the protagonists. Everything he said tho, were common sense (iterations of bibles like board games, etc.). You can tell hes eccentric, how much will he test their faith? Except... turns out hes just a psychopath who wanted go kidnap them to be his "prophets." All the challenges and dialogue went to waste. Theres nothing deep and complex about it.
No. Mr Reed embodies Religion. He embodies the control and every single little detail is so well planned, but not everyone will notice it. This isn’t just any religious horror movie. If you’re not into religions, have not struggled with faith, you probably won’t get it.
A teenage take on religion, and I say this as someone who definitely was not looking for this to be a faith based movie. This was not on par with a Sartre or Foucault critique on religion, but a 14 yr old's take. @tralivali641
I like to think that when Reed was killed with the nailboard, that the nails went into the section of the brain that "runs" during death, and plays what he believes, shows his path to his believed afterlife, and the nails/injury denied him that.
Wow, you’re thoughts on the missed opportunity to have Hugh Grant’s character witness the “miracle” of Barnes coming back to life before ending his were eye opening. What an obvious and slam dunk conclusion to that character’s arc that was rejected in favor of sudden shock factor for the audience. I wish they had went the other way 100%
Heretic was awful. Several friends recommended it to me and man did this one disappoint. M. Night Shyamalan type, contrived story where nothing is making sense and payoff never comes because it all hinges on the inane plot twists. There are multiple twists in this that are so unbelievable that I couldn’t take the movie seriously at all. Hugh Grant is absolutely unbelievable for the direction they take his character in. The Mormon evangelists he invites into his home to discuss religion have a believability. The younger looking one of the two girls is very good for the role of a devoted follower of the church. She fits the bill of the naive 19-year-old, but the way her character transforms into a mastermind detective like Sam Spade who tracks the entire whereabouts and goings on of the villain in one flash of genuis was comical, and Grant is far too charming in a benign sense for this type of antagonist he plays. He’s more convincing as the enthusiastic intellectual pouring over books and explaining in a professorial, gentlemanly manner, religious doctrine and history, but not a believable sadistic seeming character the film needs him to be eventually. Totally bizarre miscasting. I thought they would go in the direction of Flatliners or something along those lines where he’s a mad scientist trying to revive subjects postmortem to see what, if anything, lies beyond the grave. That may have been compelling. Instead we got a b-movie that defies logic at every turn.
Heritic's plot felt completely manufactured. The sets all looked contrived. I wasn't able to get into it at all. Hugh Grant's portrayal of his character was unconvincing. STUPID, A WASTE OF MY TIME.
I went in without seeing the trailer, so I had no preconceived notions about the movie. Maybe that’s why I enjoyed it. I find trailers to be a really bad concept today, misleading or too revealing. I found it less about believers vs non believers, and more about a heretic; almost like the lady in midnight mass. A man high on chaos, control, and narcissism. He likes to hear himself and watching the women squirm and less about what they actually believe. The idea that brown hair girl converted more ppl and yet she seemed to believe less in the doctrine vs the pious blond girl who turned ppl off. Their survival was the point of the movie, and in the end, the question is did she? Was it as described by the prophet, was there a resurrection, or did she pass on and the brain came up with that ending? It was about cognitive dissonance, the way humans use religion in different ways. Mr.Reed (mystery) belief system was so binary while humans are more nuanced and complex. Both girls represented that on either ends of the spectrum. Brown hair girl was a walking contradiction, with modern contraceptive while preaching Mormonism… (I believe.) and the other girl knew all about the religion and when it came down to it, admitted to just going along for the beauty. It was thrilling bc there was never a way through like she said. He fixed the game to watch those lab rats die.
Your idea was actually good!!! I love it!! SPOILERS: . . . . . I did not like that the two doors lead into the same place... it was very nihilistic. Yes the wife thing also should've been explored. I think the picture of him with a German Shepherd was supposed to make us think of Schmadolf Schmitler. I wanted it to be that he HAD found the one true religion and it was worshipping a cthonic goddess who was so unfathomably strange, and that she needed to be renewed with MORMON sacrifices; for instance, it could've been Moroni. Also having the condom conversation was weird and did not seem like something the girls would do.
This movie was a masterpiece. As a person who has struggled a lot with her faith, I think this movie is truly well made, and is hard to grasp unless you have struggled with your faith. This isn’t the Nun. This isn’t the point.
You think it was still a masterpiece after they went down the stairs and found out that this was all just torture-porn from a man who actually had no faith at all?
@ yes I do. It just made it even better, torture and porn is in the minds of many religious leaders, didn’t you hear about all the sexual abuse cases committed by the Church?
I thought you made many good points although I did leave the theatre really liking the film. When you did an American accent I couldn’t contain my laughter 28:47 😭😭😭😭 earned a subscriber
I did get a few belly laughs out of this one because it becomes so absurd in the second half. Seems like they were too afraid to offend the audience with the subject matter so they don’t really say anything relevant to philosophy of religion in conclusion and instead turn to generic horror tropes. The religious topics were just a red herring turns out. There’s no profound revelation, only profound misdirection and misfire. It's conclusion that religion is only about power is nothing you couldn't have read in many philosophers from Nietzsche to Marx. It's laughable as a reveal. The Substance is far more interesting and clever. Save your money on this one. I wish I had.
Exactly my thoughts. My friend was trying to tell me I'm biased cause I am religious, but I felt like any of the actual religious discussion/philosophical points of what the movie is trying to say is adding nothing new to the conversation. The "movie" part of the movie is fine but the rest is just whatever.
Especially the 12 "messiahs". The actual theory is called the 16 dying and rising gods, and the claims that they were born of a virgin on dec 25 simply isn't true. Zeitgeist had been thoroughly debunked. I know it is that theory that is being referenced, because Grant talked about it in an interview.
Very disappointed, i fell asleep a few times throughout the movie. Hugh and the girls did well though. All the TH-cam reviewers are losing their minds over this movie and I don't get it. After seeing The Substance which was amazing, I don't care about this movie
I didn’t like the movie for pretty much the same points you discussed. A dialogue heavy script/movie might be therapeutic for people from their own religious ends considering how they’ve navigated their viewpoints. However for people going in looking for a movie it feels a bit lazy to have the evil person talk through every single thing and get conclusions along the way without really having more of a challenge to the character or a bigger why That said I do think it’s more likely that Barnes died and the other girl started to imagine a better ending as she bled out and “escaped” as a butterfly because like you I agree Barnes was clearly dead. Also with Barnes dying there was so much focus on the guy that all the deaths, including Barnes was meaningless. The script didn’t leave as much room for breathing to consider all the theories and things being said
Actually, you are right dude. I really liked this movie that i felt I needed to defend it no matter what or who was criticizing it but I realized that would be my confirmational bias. If I'm honest with myself it was great for the first 2 thirds of the film but you're right I wanted him to find a scientific discovery on NDES. I also was excited when I thought he pulled out an alien implant then realised it was JUST A SINFUL MEANINGLESS DISBELIEF CONTRACEPTIVE ! I also found it fascinating that previous religions had prophets that were crucified for their beliefs so Christianity would be just another creep copy song built on the older religions of the landlords game etc. I like how you seem honest with no bs and dissect this. It would be good to have a coffee with you and discuss where was Mr Reeds hair wet that Paxton said he had when he went outside to get their bikes and the lock. I've seen it 3 times and can't see any more moisture on his hair or his checkered coat. Please tell me where the damp wetness is please? Also without the interruption of the church minister at his door, the woman swapping bodies downstairs could never have happened without them rushing upstairs to be distracted to scream!!! Nobody on TH-cam is talking about these points please tell me Thank you.
Aggree I was hoping for a movie like " devil " Hugh Grant should have been the devil that shows them the harsh truth about religion Were they choose to believe in a religion even if it's not real or they lose faith and the devil welcomes them to the dark side
The Heretic looks like a good movie. I haven't seen it. I was planning on seeing it with a friend. Not everyone can be like Saw. Other shark movie is after Jaws. Not many can. Writer's still need to use their imagination better. We seem to have a man. Thats not all there. He believes. He needs to teach the truth about religion to others.
They do kind of hint at Grant's character being a psycho, but other than being a little condescending perhaps, does he seem believable? Psychopaths, if clever, can mask their psychopathy under a veneer of charm. Ted Bundy did that. But anti-social personality disorder types are very socially disruptive and obnoxious, and their enormous egos manifest eventually. Hopkins in Silence of the Lambs always has to be superior to agent starling. He also is completely cold emotionally, not even having body language. I don't think Grants performance worked, but that could have more to do with the bad writing and the way he was directed. I am a fan of the actor in general but not this performance.
The movie just felt like reck-it ralph breaks the internet, where Ralph explains the theme of the movie at the end but that's just the whole movie too me, but maybe it because I study a lot of film editing, it probably put me out of it too
I liked the movie, but I don't demand much as a moviegoer. I will admit, however, that your suggestions would make for a better ending. I'd like to think the filmmakers shot that ending, but eschewed Hugh's shocked reaction, leaving it for the viewer to "believe" or not. Maybe we will get to see that ending in the blu-ray. Anyway, your review landed in my feed, and now I'm subscribing. 👍
The movie just reminded me of every fedora-tipping smug Redditor and it took me out of it. Every single anti-theistic argument was taken from there, guaranteed. It all came across as very corny and surface-level. These were also all arguments I was inoculated against as a kid, even though I’m no longer a Christian. This movie desperately needed more mindfuckery and to be less obvious, I was hoping I’d see something like Hereditary or Martyrs.
Big fan of your reviews and I know it’s not necessarily a spoiler to say that you don’t like the movie in the title it does influence how people are able to view the movie. It creates unintentional bias and I want to keep following, but this is like the third or fourth movie/TV show where I see your opinion about it before having watched it. And before anyone comes for me, this is not about TV shows or movies that are a year, or even several months old. These reviews are coming out almost immediately after the show/movie premieres. And unfortunately, I’ve caught unintentional glances of the titles just by opening TH-cam as I am a follower.
when you said the movie is about hugh grant playing a kooky guy 😆😆😆I couldnt . Though i dont completely agree it was the worst movie of the year , Eventhough the pace of revealing Mr. reed as a killer was bad , the movie itself is about the discussion of religion and belief and not about unstable misogynist who made a game of entraping women and killing them for funsies
It was kind of obvious that he was trying to break them through saying their religion is bs and to ultimately control them but he was talking to much about religion for me 😭
Subscribed 🙌🏽 The only review of this film that I agree with 100% I was so excited for this because everyone was saying it’s crazy and the twist is mind blowing 🙃
While I agree Heretic is a bit lacking, with it not fully going for the Saw like tests of religion. And yes the ending did let me down a fair bit. However on the whole I still vastly preferred this film to Longlegs and The Substance, two other films I watched in the cinema. Longlegs was an overhyped mess with little going for it. The Substance was okay but pretty surface level, and dragged out to the point of tedium.
Marshall, you still haven't redeemed from your grotesquerie recommendation. this take ain't it. "This is a movie---that needed a supernatural twist or a faith-based religious twist." The movie delivered that. Sister Paxton hallucinated the revival of Sister Barnes before she died, and that whole escape moment was not real. Its just a convenient (and purposefully illogical) story to make people feel good, where the reality is Mr. Read killed both girls before he died. Thats the conversation about religion it's having. the binary of myth and logic and how we navigate between the two. Yes the conversation throughout the movie is surface level, but I chuck that up to writing for the nose-bleeds, to lead them to deconstructing the end for themselves.
@@marshallstannus okay well the movie gives you the option to believe in the myth that Barnes revived and Paxton survived, it's illogical but if you want to have BELIEF, that's your call. just don't say the movie doesn't have a faith-based twist.
So basically it rips off The Descent, and 42 Meters Down among numerous others where the final scene is a hallucination? That's a ringing endorsement for the film.
I've been looking for a review like yours, because you confirm the things about the film that I had the feeling would be in there. These pieces of media seem to always come up short, because no well-funded, "mainstream" project is going to outright make religion look bad. Anything critical of religion is going to also portray good things about religion. This is done out of cowardice (or not really having anything to say), IMO, but people tend to praise it as "clever nuance." I'm thinking of the likes of Midnight Mass and the recent Peacock miniseries Hysteria. (I did like Hysteria, but I didn't like that aspect of it).
(Also, IMO, there's nothing very deep or interesting about religious philosophy/theology, and it's certainly not rational. Therefore, it's impossible to make an intellectually honest film about it that's also interesting).
I...struggle to see where the positive portrayal of religion (or more broadly, even faith) is in Midnight Mass. Like Midnight Mass? That one where a remote community of Christians who treat their Muslim sheriff like doodoo bc they're Christian supremacists get killed by a vampire or turned into vampires and immolated? Where their community literally goes down in flames? That Midnight Mass?
If anything, this movie would be popular with the religious crowd, who takes things very black-and-white and simple/surface level. Evil villain/atheist dies, good protagonist wins, with bonus point because the protagonist believes in God. Good for surface level audience, not so much for those who like to delve deeper into the meaning of things.
At least he's a real person who chose to do this, people were giving Rebel Moon reviews before they watched it just because they were paid for negative reviews
@tellyheadlol4258 if you're an idiot sure. But I still read currently, and I love Shakespeare, and Rebel Moon is a Shakespearean tale of love and fighting for honor.
I agree this movie was a guy mansplaining to two girls that he already intended to kill and did in the end.
Yes. But that's also the point of it. The entire film is about religion as a means of control, right? It's not a coincidence that it was written with two Mormon girls traveling together (not two Mormon boys), and that all the people kept in cages in the basement are women. The one major thing that all that all the main religions have in common besides control in general, is that they all contain elements of encouraging the subservience of women. Religion is used as a vessel for the subjugation of women, but because women are raised to believe the doctrine, they actively participate in it and consent to it. So of course it's a guy mansplaining to two girls about belief and then proving his point.
@@parissinclair6513 i accept your point but my identity as a black woman affects my thoughts on the movie and why i summarized it the way that i did.
this movie was akin to margaret atwood's handmaid tail which made white woman shocked with horror at the hypothetical things they could be subjected to meanwhile...black and brown people were like not only did these things actually happen...it happened to US and not YOU.
@@parissinclair6513 Personally, this movie is just as much a commentary on whiteness if not more than religion and control. If you changed the gender or race of the villian it changes the commentary entirely. The fact that the villian was a white man who had zero commentary or challenges to face throughout the movie besides from the victims/prisoners who just wanted out of his lair felt lazy. That's already the general and most common power dynamic which is why i reduced the movie to: "a guy mansplaining to two girls that he already intended to kill". We already know most serial killers are men. We already know men carry out a lot of dominance and violence. We also know that religion went hand in hand with wars and bloodshed.
Just as the movie would be different with two boy missionaries. The movie's meaning (to me) is reduced because the world building is limited and follow a linear story arc. The villain lost the human aspect because we didn't learn how he got to this point, about his wife, anything. He was 2D to me but i respect if you feel differently
if he groommed the girls or someone else intervened or said something it wouldn't sound like a run on monologue
but i respect if you feel differently
@@morethanyourbasicsomg as a latina raised evangelical, the second the movie ended i thought they should have made one of the sister missionaries black and brought up the history of mormonism and blackness idk mormons are so……. white
@@parissinclair6513 because why though? Good fiction needs to provide good cause to help one believe the fiction is real. By him being worse than what he's (allegedly) trying to disprove, would only support that he is worse. Hence, is he really trying to convert to his point of view, or as morethanyourbasics stated, he just wants to get women in cages regardless of whether he can win their minds?
I genuinely love that you went into a full discussion of this movie even though you were so underwhelmed by it - this is one of the things that I enjoy about this channel
I agree with everything, except two things:
1) I actually liked the first scene, but not because I felt it was an allegory for the story. I just found it a funny way to start the film and show us the difference between these characters. Sister Paxton, naive and curious. Sister Barnes, experienced and sensible.
2) Maxxxine was the biggest letdown of 2024
This movie is like getting a brand new Lamborghini for Christmas and driving it all around town in excitement for 8 days. Then on new years, someone comes and tells you "sorry gotta take it back because it's actually just a rental".
Maxxxine the film where she knocks on the back of the cinema's door and the guy who lives in a room that is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay far away from the door instantly hears her and responds?
as someone who is exmormon, I can't disagree more. Really touched me personally, resonated with my personal experiences in the church and I think the thriller aspect was done spectacularly. The acting was great and I think the explaining portions were as well. The film wants to get you to question your beliefs and I can point out so many little details that stuck with me that they did so well. It all made sense to me honestly (emotional sense). 9/10 film
What parts of the movie resonated with you?
@@vfxtutswithdan1893 it's hard to put into words because so much of the sister missionaries remind me of how life was like growing up. The ending and Sister paxton's take on prayer really hit me like a punch to the gut. Reminded me a lot of my faith crisis and how strong my feelings about God once were. I think her relationship with her faith was wonderful and nuanced and it just made me... feel a lot of things. It's also just a really intense movie so I was pretty strung out just from seeing all the thriller elements which for me were a bit hard to stomach, partially because of how much i didn't want the sisters to get hurt and how believable the characters were to me.
@@taylorallen1187 So you used to have strong feelings about God but you don't anymore? Not to get too personal, but what happened? I've seen people go through this process before. It's tough to watch.
@@vfxtutswithdan1893 Not to get too specific about my personal life, but yeah I was raised Mormon and felt I had a very close relationship to God and Jesus for most of my life. I realized that everything I was told to do (praying, being temple worthy, etc.) was not improving my life and that I was blaming myself for everything bad that happened because I wasn't "worthy enough" even though on paper I was. I started the deconstruction process and after about a year of research and contemplation decided I didn't want to be in the church anymore. But being mormon was still a huge part of me for most of my life and I still have strong feelings that resurface from time to time regarding God and prayer because it was programmed into my brain that way for so long.
Yeah i was going to say the same. If you had expectations that weren't exact to the actual film, ofc you'd feel "disappointed". I had ZERO expectations and came out pleasantly entertained. The conversations especially around Mormonism evolving away from polygamy to go with modern times was a good point, it makes you question what else can the religion change and why haven't they. Hugh Grants character is a thought-provoker, not some new horror icon entry.
The movie was so good and interesting during the first half and then falls off around the time the first girl dies. Then it just turns into a Scobby doo episode. I feel like it had so much potential and it lost it all in an attempt to a fast conclusion. Suddenly the suspense was lost for me. The build up was very interesting though.
That's odd, I saw the thought provoking thriller twice. But I agree that the movies raises so many questions. One of the questions that really intrigued me was the one asked during the Cages Women scene where Mr. Reed is asked, "Why to you do this?" while Mr. Reed replies, "Why do you let me?". Understanding that Mr.Reed represents a personification of the Church/Religion, the question reverberates loudly when you consider all the power plays for control and atrocities committed by the religious groups/cults. I personally reflected on the publicly documented cases of Church abuse of children. It became standard protocol for the churches to silence the victims while simply relocating the clergyman to a new location where the offender still has access to children. Hence, the question "Why to you do this?". But allegation of their type and magnitude have been levied against the church for a long time. Frequently they would rise and fall in the news cycles. Despite the public awareness, vulnerable segments of our population are still fueled through the predatory faith organization. Hence the question, "Why do you let me?". Why?
Why don't we protect ourselves and our vulnerable loved ones when it comes to these institution? Why are we so quick to forgive? What kind of subconscious psychological conditioning is at work?
There should be more movies of the kind. As Socrates famously said, “The unexamined life is not worth living.”
Older generations taught younger generations that we have no support, they convinced them that it's not us letting this happen to us, but that it is pointless to fight it, because no one will help them, so it's pointless to defend one self. Thankfully someone clued in that there sure is a lot of people fvcking lamenting over the same fvcking thing and not acting on it for change. Depression and abuse paved a lot of the way for our species, because of the word, thankfully, no.
We also don't have to be abused or go through heavy depression to know what we don't like, and to know what is no life to live.
When parents stop lying to their kids, all just for a moment of silence, or something else, just to get their way, instead of properly explaining the truth of things, or even just a time out to speak about it later in a better location and actually follow-thru.
As somebody who has a lot of gripes with organized religion, I saw this one tonight with my friend who is very Christian and we both ended up really enjoying it! May not be everybody's taste but this was easily my favorite film of the year (still gotta see The Substance though.)
I understand how anybody can like this movie through the 1st and 2nd act. Great movie at that point. Unfortunately after the 3rd act, how anyone can still call this a good movie is beyond me.
3rd act wasn’t that bad simmer down ma’am. That’s where the most horror happened!
@@jaysony8587 Totally agreed! The third act did somewhat break the immersion for me personally, but not to the point where it ruined my enjoyment of the film. Still loved this one!
Good luck. The Substance is mid
Yea, I loved it! Really entertaining! Didn't find it scary, more of a thriller. Sorry you didn't like it! Sounds like you had big expectations for it. Maybe because I didn't see the trailers for it, only once back in August!
I think the movie was inherently always going to end up being more surface level than most would hope for but I fully expected that going in. Any movie with regular movie length could never effectively discuss this topic to it's fullest degree or close. This one also still needed to be a horror film on top of it all. The directors were not even expecting it to hit the big screens at first, only streaming. For the limits, this film was so freakin effective and thought-provoking. The movie presented me the ideas and I was able to continue those thought experiments in my own head during and afterward. Huge success for me tbh!
Even at the feature film length - if Grant's character actually believed that his methods revealed something divine.... then the whole film takes on such a different spin. That he always knew he was not a believer in anything and only like torturing women is a pitiful disguise
I also agree. A sadistic killer mansplaining. As if it wasn't bad enough that you were going to get killed, you had to spend your last hours listening to his sophomoric ramblings.
Isn't that the same thing as the two girls in their
womanplaining
their side of the religion.?
Did you think that big word up all by yourself!
Here's your cookie now go play in your playpen.
im confused so cuz I have a dick and balls I can't explain anything wow
@@robd1859hugh grant is that you? They LITERALLY say what the man in the movie does and here u are BUT BUT WOMEN SPLAINING WOMEN THIS WOMEN THAT WE MEN DO NOTHING WE INNOCENT WE VICTIM 😂
I loved this movie because it’s very thought provoking and I do think that he was on to something. Christianity does have a monopoly on all the other religions and most religions rely on fear and control hence to why control is the one true religion
26:54 THIS! I 1000 % agree. Honestly, I think his British accent adds a sense of empty profoundness. I went in with an open mind as I also used to have a strong practicing fearful faith. My college philosophy class made me question everything. Also the quick character change of Paxton from meek awkward mouse to final girl Sherlock Holmes Velma was a STRETCH. It really was just crazy coocoo man going stabby stabby. I took the ending as Paxton died due to blood loss and she was hallucinating escaping ( her phone still didn't have signal when she got outside) and the butterfly was her projecting her own desires after death ( wanting to come back as a butterfly). When the butterfly disappears, I interpreted that the escape wasn't real.
I thought the discussions on theology was quite good. Where the movie lost me is when the girls went through their chosen door but it didn’t amount to anything. And that zombie women subplot made zero sense.
I'm pretty sure Grant is supposed to play religion/god and those events were a representation of the illusion of choice.
It's a comment on the substitution theory around the resurrection of Jesus in islam.
After 24 hours from watching this and having time to resonate, here are my thoughts:
It's revealed the 2 girls don't necessarily fall into some either/or camp of belief or disbelief. But Grant, as if he's some teenage redditor, assumes this about these 2 young girls who are complete strangers and forcibly subjects his self valued intellect on them. He's old though which makes it less believable, and regardless of whether they choose belief or disbelief, we realize he's still going to lead them to a dead end basement- so why go through all those mediocre philosophical constructs? Watching an old man with 16 year old takes seems the real torture, especially since unlike the religions he's critiquing, he's nowhere close to controlling their minds. As with his one prisoner who betrayed him by going off script, he really has little control. The game is unbelievable because by being more cruel than your average religion and by having less success on coercion by converting, he's only owning himself, and it's embarrassing to watch. By the end of the movie, no one is psychologically in a different place. There really weren't any premises brought up that would have illuminated a Philosophy 101 student, as anything brought up was so forced and rushed through- there was no platonic dialogue or time for anyone to experience a philosophical transformation, positively or negatively.
Maybe a high school audience would find something interesting about this, but for anyone over 25, whether an agnostic who has studied religion through the lens of something which has developed through evolutionary biological, or someone who attends a mainstream synagogue or traditional church, the Margaret Atwood takes or the 16 yr old Nietzsche reading takes of this movie in the comments are laughable. The fact that this movie has a decent Rotten Tomatoes score probably says something about literacy and the lack of intellectual discourse in our society more than anything.
Also, yes to your “feels like a first-draft” sentiment. I can’t help but walk away from this movie and mourning what could have been; the basement should have been a series of rooms and challenges and impossible in size, yet it feels like Mr. Reed slapped together what he could like a kid attempting to do his school project the night before it’s due. He should have offered a better experience to match the competency of his conversational skills, but the effort just isn’t there. It’s like the cursed Willy Wonka experiment that was highlighted in the news earlier this year
I feel like that was the point, though. That his thought process was complex and nuanced but his execution of it was supposed to be rudimentary and shakey because he was, in fact, not an all powerful being. Just some crazed man with some intense beliefs about control. it seems like it had worked for him before, many times.
I also think that if it was an impossible series of tunnels and doors it would’ve taken away from the reality. If it had been that fantastical then it wouldn’t have been so unnerving because it would’ve made you think that maybe he was some sort of supernatural being. I think what makes it unnerving is that it really was just some guy who obsessed over this concept to the point that he made his home into a trap to prove a point that only he cared to prove.
I’d also like to add that the idea of control being the ultimate “religion” was something that is prove-able just through action.
He’s controlling the entire situation up until the point of his “prophet” defying him and when that is figured out, he asserts dominance over her by cutting off her finger, thereby reinforcing the idea that he is all powerful, just in the same way that people believe that God is all powerful.
The roads cross here with the idea of sin being punishable by god. If you defy god, you will be punished. And in that way, he was right about control being what makes religion so powerful.
there is something to be said about fear being so powerful that it shakes sister Paxton and Barnes into deceit several times, which is a sin and therefore needs to be punished, which they are.
So it’s kind of left ambiguous on whether or not god exists because obviously he never proved that god didn’t exist, just that he was more powerful in that moment by being physically overbearing.
I was so excited for this movie and it fell so flat for me. They could've done so many other interesting things with it.
The movie is multi-layered, complicated tool which opens up to penetrate your mind in a very sneaky way, like a really exquisite perfume. Oh yes, it definitely not just "fucks around", it actually fucks up your mind instead. Hugh Grant doesn't play "just a coocoo old man" or a "serial killer" - he plays God. And we got to admit that he's damn good in it!
Exactly. It was very good to me. Like blink twice, watching the way both girls went into survival mode in different ways: flight fight or freeze. In the end, the one who was thought to be the believer, was turned on its head. She whole time knew it wasn’t true but adhered to the doctrine bc it brings humans together
More like he's playing satan.
@@mugglesarecooltoo both, all of his actions for hellish but what he said was mostly true
Using hyperbole doesn't make a film good
@@MeghannMonroeyes, I think the survival modes is a really important point here. But also the fourth and often forgotten one, "fawn" or appease, which sister Paxton (the more innocent one) exhibited perfectly. I think part of the interest of this movie is the psychological and human behavior aspect. Perhaps it is also a more interesting and thought provoking film for women than for men. Given that women are often socialized to be polite and nice more than men, and I think what the girls experienced simulates a more extreme version of what most women experience on a daily basis.
Starts off great... falls off after about 30 to 40 mins...
If you think this was just “cuckoo man goes stabby stab” then you missed the point ENTIRELY
The problem is the film hints at an even better point and then does not deliver.
We as the audience never have our own crisis of faith because the plot is just spelled out in such clear and unambiguous steps - except for the girl who was stabbed in the neck coming back to life for just a moment. That actually offends the audience because it is a conceit without an explanation.
@@6ChurchesI personally think the girl coming back for a moment was supposed to be left up to interpretation, but who knows for sure.
@@TonyQuinn I interpret it as sloppy writing
@ Well that’s fine I guess.
The trailer made me hesitant because it only has the premise and never escalates. Maybe it was just a good trailer that didn’t spoil anything, or maybe the story is disappointingly surface-level. Sounds like it was the latter. I watched through the spoiler part because I’m never gonna watch this most likely, so appreciate the review.
I expressed the same on another review that praised it, and all the Heretic fans came and said i was dumb, the movie was too complex for me. Like what??? Nothing was complex about it. 😂😂 Mr. Reeves had a great start, genuinely challenging the protagonists. Everything he said tho, were common sense (iterations of bibles like board games, etc.). You can tell hes eccentric, how much will he test their faith? Except... turns out hes just a psychopath who wanted go kidnap them to be his "prophets." All the challenges and dialogue went to waste. Theres nothing deep and complex about it.
No. Mr Reed embodies Religion. He embodies the control and every single little detail is so well planned, but not everyone will notice it. This isn’t just any religious horror movie. If you’re not into religions, have not struggled with faith, you probably won’t get it.
A teenage take on religion, and I say this as someone who definitely was not looking for this to be a faith based movie. This was not on par with a Sartre or Foucault critique on religion, but a 14 yr old's take. @tralivali641
I actually prefer a grounded movie like this compared to relying on a supernatural element
The blueberry candle takes me right out of the movie. I have one, and it smells like vomit. 😂
That’s how I felt about the birth control. I have Nexplanon and it was all wrong.
Most disappointing of the year. Wow you must watch very few movies this year or be an incredible artist yourself that you think you can do better
I like to think that when Reed was killed with the nailboard, that the nails went into the section of the brain that "runs" during death, and plays what he believes, shows his path to his believed afterlife, and the nails/injury denied him that.
Wow, you’re thoughts on the missed opportunity to have Hugh Grant’s character witness the “miracle” of Barnes coming back to life before ending his were eye opening. What an obvious and slam dunk conclusion to that character’s arc that was rejected in favor of sudden shock factor for the audience. I wish they had went the other way 100%
Heretic was awful. Several friends recommended it to me and man did this one disappoint. M. Night Shyamalan type, contrived story where nothing is making sense and payoff never comes because it all hinges on the inane plot twists. There are multiple twists in this that are so unbelievable that I couldn’t take the movie seriously at all.
Hugh Grant is absolutely unbelievable for the direction they take his character in. The Mormon evangelists he invites into his home to discuss religion have a believability. The younger looking one of the two girls is very good for the role of a devoted follower of the church. She fits the bill of the naive 19-year-old, but the way her character transforms into a mastermind detective like Sam Spade who tracks the entire whereabouts and goings on of the villain in one flash of genuis was comical, and Grant is far too charming in a benign sense for this type of antagonist he plays. He’s more convincing as the enthusiastic intellectual pouring over books and explaining in a professorial, gentlemanly manner, religious doctrine and history, but not a believable sadistic seeming character the film needs him to be eventually. Totally bizarre miscasting. I thought they would go in the direction of Flatliners or something along those lines where he’s a mad scientist trying to revive subjects postmortem to see what, if anything, lies beyond the grave. That may have been compelling. Instead we got a b-movie that defies logic at every turn.
Heritic's plot felt completely manufactured. The sets all looked contrived. I wasn't able to get into it at all. Hugh Grant's portrayal of his character was unconvincing. STUPID, A WASTE OF MY TIME.
It was literally one of his best roles then lol
I went in without seeing the trailer, so I had no preconceived notions about the movie. Maybe that’s why I enjoyed it. I find trailers to be a really bad concept today, misleading or too revealing. I found it less about believers vs non believers, and more about a heretic; almost like the lady in midnight mass. A man high on chaos, control, and narcissism. He likes to hear himself and watching the women squirm and less about what they actually believe. The idea that brown hair girl converted more ppl and yet she seemed to believe less in the doctrine vs the pious blond girl who turned ppl off. Their survival was the point of the movie, and in the end, the question is did she? Was it as described by the prophet, was there a resurrection, or did she pass on and the brain came up with that ending? It was about cognitive dissonance, the way humans use religion in different ways. Mr.Reed (mystery) belief system was so binary while humans are more nuanced and complex. Both girls represented that on either ends of the spectrum. Brown hair girl was a walking contradiction, with modern contraceptive while preaching Mormonism… (I believe.) and the other girl knew all about the religion and when it came down to it, admitted to just going along for the beauty. It was thrilling bc there was never a way through like she said. He fixed the game to watch those lab rats die.
That's your opinion. The movie was awesome
Your idea was actually good!!! I love it!!
SPOILERS:
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I did not like that the two doors lead into the same place... it was very nihilistic. Yes the wife thing also should've been explored. I think the picture of him with a German Shepherd was supposed to make us think of Schmadolf Schmitler. I wanted it to be that he HAD found the one true religion and it was worshipping a cthonic goddess who was so unfathomably strange, and that she needed to be renewed with MORMON sacrifices; for instance, it could've been Moroni. Also having the condom conversation was weird and did not seem like something the girls would do.
This movie was a masterpiece. As a person who has struggled a lot with her faith, I think this movie is truly well made, and is hard to grasp unless you have struggled with your faith. This isn’t the Nun. This isn’t the point.
You think it was still a masterpiece after they went down the stairs and found out that this was all just torture-porn from a man who actually had no faith at all?
@ yes I do. It just made it even better, torture and porn is in the minds of many religious leaders, didn’t you hear about all the sexual abuse cases committed by the Church?
@ that are also btw still protected by the Church…
@@tralivali641 what now?
Hugh Grant’s best career performance was Tony the Tiger in Unfrosted.
Where did you get that shirt I need it
A website called SCRT, search SCRT substance shirt you should be able to find
I feel this movie needed a supernatural element.
Very perceptive review . I agree entirely. There is no connection between the religious debate and the silly horror bit.
I thought you made many good points although I did leave the theatre really liking the film. When you did an American accent I couldn’t contain my laughter 28:47 😭😭😭😭 earned a subscriber
Thank you so much!! Glad you enjoyed even tho I didn’t :/
I did get a few belly laughs out of this one because it becomes so absurd in the second half. Seems like they were too afraid to offend the audience with the subject matter so they don’t really say anything relevant to philosophy of religion in conclusion and instead turn to generic horror tropes. The religious topics were just a red herring turns out. There’s no profound revelation, only profound misdirection and misfire. It's conclusion that religion is only about power is nothing you couldn't have read in many philosophers from Nietzsche to Marx. It's laughable as a reveal. The Substance is far more interesting and clever. Save your money on this one. I wish I had.
Please share where you got the shirt from 🙏🏻
NVM ITS $70 F THAT 💀💀 tf
@@kriscantswim66 $70?! FR?! I’m poor :(
Exactly my thoughts. My friend was trying to tell me I'm biased cause I am religious, but I felt like any of the actual religious discussion/philosophical points of what the movie is trying to say is adding nothing new to the conversation. The "movie" part of the movie is fine but the rest is just whatever.
Especially the 12 "messiahs". The actual theory is called the 16 dying and rising gods, and the claims that they were born of a virgin on dec 25 simply isn't true. Zeitgeist had been thoroughly debunked.
I know it is that theory that is being referenced, because Grant talked about it in an interview.
Very disappointed, i fell asleep a few times throughout the movie. Hugh and the girls did well though. All the TH-cam reviewers are losing their minds over this movie and I don't get it. After seeing The Substance which was amazing, I don't care about this movie
The Substance was definitely not amazing
Just saw it and I agree. Didn’t live up to its potential and after all that buildup the middle was just kinda wacky and random
I didn’t like the movie for pretty much the same points you discussed. A dialogue heavy script/movie might be therapeutic for people from their own religious ends considering how they’ve navigated their viewpoints.
However for people going in looking for a movie it feels a bit lazy to have the evil person talk through every single thing and get conclusions along the way without really having more of a challenge to the character or a bigger why
That said I do think it’s more likely that Barnes died and the other girl started to imagine a better ending as she bled out and “escaped” as a butterfly because like you I agree Barnes was clearly dead.
Also with Barnes dying there was so much focus on the guy that all the deaths, including Barnes was meaningless. The script didn’t leave as much room for breathing to consider all the theories and things being said
I love your hairstyle. Great Video. Just subscribed.
Kinda love how he doesnt engage in the pseudo intelectual conversations of the movie lol like he knows it’s better to save the brain energy
Actually, you are right dude. I really liked this movie that i felt I needed to defend it no matter what or who was criticizing it but I realized that would be my confirmational bias. If I'm honest with myself it was great for the first 2 thirds of the film but you're right I wanted him to find a scientific discovery on NDES. I also was excited when I thought he pulled out an alien implant then realised it was JUST A SINFUL MEANINGLESS DISBELIEF CONTRACEPTIVE ! I also found it fascinating that previous religions had prophets that were crucified for their beliefs so Christianity would be just another creep copy song built on the older religions of the landlords game etc. I like how you seem honest with no bs and dissect this. It would be good to have a coffee with you and discuss where was Mr Reeds hair wet that Paxton said he had when he went outside to get their bikes and the lock. I've seen it 3 times and can't see any more moisture on his hair or his checkered coat. Please tell me where the damp wetness is please? Also without the interruption of the church minister at his door, the woman swapping bodies downstairs could never have happened without them rushing upstairs to be distracted to scream!!! Nobody on TH-cam is talking about these points please tell me Thank you.
Aggree
I was hoping for a movie like " devil "
Hugh Grant should have been the devil
that shows them the harsh truth about religion
Were they choose to believe in a religion
even if it's not real or
they lose faith and the devil welcomes them to the dark side
Thank you for this bc I walked out feeling underwhelmed but I could verbalize what I felt.
Hugh Grant trying to play against type apparently didn't work out for him.
So your criticism of this movie is that it wasn't a completely different movie?
i love this movie but i hated longlegs. to each there own. definitely liked the first half of heretic better tho
The Heretic looks like a good movie. I haven't seen it. I was planning on seeing it with a friend. Not everyone can be like Saw. Other shark movie is after Jaws. Not many can. Writer's still need to use their imagination better. We seem to have a man. Thats not all there. He believes. He needs to teach the truth about religion to others.
will we be getting a smile 2 review?
They do kind of hint at Grant's character being a psycho, but other than being a little condescending perhaps, does he seem believable? Psychopaths, if clever, can mask their psychopathy under a veneer of charm. Ted Bundy did that. But anti-social personality disorder types are very socially disruptive and obnoxious, and their enormous egos manifest eventually. Hopkins in Silence of the Lambs always has to be superior to agent starling. He also is completely cold emotionally, not even having body language. I don't think Grants performance worked, but that could have more to do with the bad writing and the way he was directed. I am a fan of the actor in general but not this performance.
The movie just felt like reck-it ralph breaks the internet, where Ralph explains the theme of the movie at the end but that's just the whole movie too me, but maybe it because I study a lot of film editing, it probably put me out of it too
I really liked the movie but I think all your points were extremely fair. Still enjoyed it though!
2 minutes in on this review and you are spot on. I expected better
I liked the movie, but I don't demand much as a moviegoer. I will admit, however, that your suggestions would make for a better ending. I'd like to think the filmmakers shot that ending, but eschewed Hugh's shocked reaction, leaving it for the viewer to "believe" or not. Maybe we will get to see that ending in the blu-ray. Anyway, your review landed in my feed, and now I'm subscribing. 👍
The movie just reminded me of every fedora-tipping smug Redditor and it took me out of it. Every single anti-theistic argument was taken from there, guaranteed. It all came across as very corny and surface-level. These were also all arguments I was inoculated against as a kid, even though I’m no longer a Christian. This movie desperately needed more mindfuckery and to be less obvious, I was hoping I’d see something like Hereditary or Martyrs.
Big fan of your reviews and I know it’s not necessarily a spoiler to say that you don’t like the movie in the title it does influence how people are able to view the movie. It creates unintentional bias and I want to keep following, but this is like the third or fourth movie/TV show where I see your opinion about it before having watched it. And before anyone comes for me, this is not about TV shows or movies that are a year, or even several months old. These reviews are coming out almost immediately after the show/movie premieres. And unfortunately, I’ve caught unintentional glances of the titles just by opening TH-cam as I am a follower.
Shame you didn’t like it.
when you said the movie is about hugh grant playing a kooky guy 😆😆😆I couldnt . Though i dont completely agree it was the worst movie of the year , Eventhough the pace of revealing Mr. reed as a killer was bad , the movie itself is about the discussion of religion and belief and not about unstable misogynist who made a game of entraping women and killing them for funsies
So it's a troll movie?
It was kind of obvious that he was trying to break them through saying their religion is bs and to ultimately control them but he was talking to much about religion for me 😭
"This is the most dissapoiting movie of the year" says the guy who liked Joker : Folie à Deux...😂😂😂 your opinion is automatically null and void.
Let me ask you. Are you religious in any way?
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The only review of this film that I agree with 100%
I was so excited for this because everyone was saying it’s crazy and the twist is mind blowing 🙃
While I agree Heretic is a bit lacking, with it not fully going for the Saw like tests of religion.
And yes the ending did let me down a fair bit.
However on the whole I still vastly preferred this film to Longlegs and The Substance, two other films I watched in the cinema.
Longlegs was an overhyped mess with little going for it.
The Substance was okay but pretty surface level, and dragged out to the point of tedium.
I was hoping for it to give Barbarian but it gave abandon the plot 😢
Well i liked it matey
I liked it a lot
The shirt!
Finally a fresh take on this hogwash
Marshall, you still haven't redeemed from your grotesquerie recommendation. this take ain't it.
"This is a movie---that needed a supernatural twist or a faith-based religious twist." The movie delivered that. Sister Paxton hallucinated the revival of Sister Barnes before she died, and that whole escape moment was not real. Its just a convenient (and purposefully illogical) story to make people feel good, where the reality is Mr. Read killed both girls before he died. Thats the conversation about religion it's having. the binary of myth and logic and how we navigate between the two. Yes the conversation throughout the movie is surface level, but I chuck that up to writing for the nose-bleeds, to lead them to deconstructing the end for themselves.
Alright yeah grotesquerie totally fell apart I agree
I don’t really love the idea that they both died in the basement tho I’m sorryyyyyyy
@@marshallstannus okay well the movie gives you the option to believe in the myth that Barnes revived and Paxton survived, it's illogical but if you want to have BELIEF, that's your call.
just don't say the movie doesn't have a faith-based twist.
So basically it rips off The Descent, and 42 Meters Down among numerous others where the final scene is a hallucination? That's a ringing endorsement for the film.
oh no. a movie about iterations is an iteration.
@@warrenjohns3194 Right, one hack writer copying a terrible trope from another hack writer. Who could have a problem with that?
I've been looking for a review like yours, because you confirm the things about the film that I had the feeling would be in there. These pieces of media seem to always come up short, because no well-funded, "mainstream" project is going to outright make religion look bad. Anything critical of religion is going to also portray good things about religion. This is done out of cowardice (or not really having anything to say), IMO, but people tend to praise it as "clever nuance." I'm thinking of the likes of Midnight Mass and the recent Peacock miniseries Hysteria. (I did like Hysteria, but I didn't like that aspect of it).
(Also, IMO, there's nothing very deep or interesting about religious philosophy/theology, and it's certainly not rational. Therefore, it's impossible to make an intellectually honest film about it that's also interesting).
I...struggle to see where the positive portrayal of religion (or more broadly, even faith) is in Midnight Mass.
Like Midnight Mass? That one where a remote community of Christians who treat their Muslim sheriff like doodoo bc they're Christian supremacists get killed by a vampire or turned into vampires and immolated? Where their community literally goes down in flames? That Midnight Mass?
@@arbyswitch5580 Well first of all, religion turns out to be true 😄
@@habeashumor9814 no, it's fuckin vampires bro 🤣 those Catholics can call the vampire an "angel" all they want, that dude was Nosferatu's cousin
@@habeashumor9814 I guess it's a bit interpretive, and I went with the most cynical/grounded/pragmatic interpretation
If anything, this movie would be popular with the religious crowd, who takes things very black-and-white and simple/surface level. Evil villain/atheist dies, good protagonist wins, with bonus point because the protagonist believes in God. Good for surface level audience, not so much for those who like to delve deeper into the meaning of things.
You spend thirty minutes talking about a movie you hate?
At least he's a real person who chose to do this, people were giving Rebel Moon reviews before they watched it just because they were paid for negative reviews
And what about it😅 at least these pay his bills
@@PlanetVeldtYeah but that film genuinely sucks
@tellyheadlol4258 if you're an idiot sure. But I still read currently, and I love Shakespeare, and Rebel Moon is a Shakespearean tale of love and fighting for honor.
Movie critics should just ignore movies they don’t like. Great point dude