Super Saiyan grades do Matter!

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  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 15 พ.ย. 2024

ความคิดเห็น • 85

  • @Neko_Mario
    @Neko_Mario ปีที่แล้ว +7

    I saw a Kanzenshuu thread throwing out so much headcanon about how Grade 4 HAS to be only 50× and it was hilarious.
    They want as far as to say that Grade 1 never truly reached 50× due to stamina drain and that Grade 4 is when they were finally able to do so, and that Grade 1 was "more likely around 30×" which by their logic would be far too high due to just how much stronger Grade 4 was.
    Even then, stamina usage has never shown to affect multipiers to my knowledge. At most it either 1, is when you have incredibly unstable forms like Manga SSB where they had to hold back so much power for their stamina not to hit 0 immediately, or 2, their base power is significantly decreased when near or at 0 stamina but the multipliers themselves would logically be the same.
    Nothing contradicts and in fact indeed supports Grade 4 being AT LEAST a 1000× boost to base.

    • @atari_hmb
      @atari_hmb  ปีที่แล้ว +5

      Those arguments typically fall apart when you either use the narrative or other instances like for example in Vegeta fought katopelsa.

    • @Neko_Mario
      @Neko_Mario ปีที่แล้ว +3

      @@atari_hmb Yeah. That and the shear increase in power of even Grade 2 Vegeta and the fact that Grade 2 was essentially better than Grade 1 in every way except maybe a slightly higher stamina drain.
      The other argument of "The whole point of Grade 4 was just to use the regular 50× boost with little to no stamina drain, making it superior for that alone as it can be maintained the easiest" also falls flat as that would mean SSJ2 and 3 would have never been used as they, especially 3, were larger stamina drains. Yet they still saw plenty of strategic use.

    • @batguy39
      @batguy39 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      How drain works is dictated by the rule of cool
      In Moro they just dropped forms not power until hitting base

    • @Neko_Mario
      @Neko_Mario ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@batguy39 I'd say a mix of the 2 and/or also depending on the form.

    • @MinhTran-sl6eu
      @MinhTran-sl6eu 7 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@atari_hmbYooo the katopelsa example is so blatant too. Thanks for pointing it out

  • @OutwardLyric
    @OutwardLyric 5 ปีที่แล้ว +10

    You should do a vid on how strong YYH characters would be if they trained in the hyperbolic time chamber. Or if yyh characters went through dbz levels of training. I think you could also do perhaps breaking down the different types of yyh energies and what's the strongest, so on and so forth.

  • @thewarrior4724
    @thewarrior4724 5 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    awesome video Atari. Nice seeing you around. Last time I heard from you was when Seth's server was still up and running

  • @thethunder398
    @thethunder398 4 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    SSJ: x50 base
    ASSJ: x2 SSJ. It increases power and speed
    USSJ: x10 SSJ. It increases only power and looses speed
    MSSJ: x50 base. Being your body adjusted to this form, your base power increases.
    SSJ2: x2 SSJ. It increases all SSJ aspects and so the next forms
    SSJ3: x4 SSJ2.
    SSJ4: x10 SSJ3
    That's why gohan was wondering why the others was impressed by goku's power if he was more powerful at the room of spirit and time while being a USSJ. Goku was more powerful than before, yeah. But it wasn't a huge power gap.

    • @MegaMachiOnline
      @MegaMachiOnline 4 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      But Cabba & Vegeta were equals normally but when it came to Super Saiyans, Vegeta smoked Cabba.

    • @thenoirknight5729
      @thenoirknight5729 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@MegaMachiOnline Gotta look at both the manga and the anime to know what's canon

    • @kleber_felinto
      @kleber_felinto ปีที่แล้ว

      ​@@MegaMachiOnline Yeah, and in the manga MSSB was equal to fusion zamasu, base potara fusion was stated by vados in the anime as the max power of both warriors added, and then multiplied by dozens of time.
      Since black was far stronger than zamasu, black's power wouldn't even double by adding it with zamasu, so fusion zamasu is SSR black x dozens of times, mastered ssb goku was equal to this fusion, meanwhile normal blue vegeta got folded in one blow.

    • @seggenghirmay2236
      @seggenghirmay2236 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      No
      Ssj: x50
      Assj: x100
      Ussj: x500
      Mssj: x1k
      Ssj2: x2k
      Ssj3: 2x ssj2 sooo 4k
      G oozaru:40k×
      Ssj4:50k×
      Ssg:100k×
      Ssb:5mill×
      Ssbe:100mill×
      Ui:360trill× 6:38

  • @xrafaelarcade4473
    @xrafaelarcade4473 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    How I would explain ss grade 4 is that it ss with no stain on the body and better energy control while ss grade 2 and 3 keep there multiplier but it cause the body to quickly get strain and the energy quickly leaves the body there for making the forms weaker in turn of reliability while still keep the ss2 2x 50. In better terms ss grade 2 and 3 is a old car with new engine that cause it to breaker down while ss grade 4 is that old car improve and restore to handle more power and ss2 is that improved car with a new engine and ss grade 1 is stock car with a stock with an old engine and transmission

  • @robensmonteau161
    @robensmonteau161 3 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    This is something I agree with whole heartedly because it makes sense. Though it does screw with the further multipliers.
    SSJ: 50×
    SSJ G2: 100×
    SSJ G3: 1,000×
    MSSJ: 1,000×
    SSJ2: 2,000×
    SSJ3: 8,000×
    SSJG: *(X [unknown factor])*
    SSJB: (X)×1,000
    SSJBE: (X)×20,000

    • @ssjxiaokolra323
      @ssjxiaokolra323 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      What would be the multipliers be for SSJ4 from Dragon Ball GT??? 🤔🤔🤔🤔
      I get that Dragon Ball GT isn’t cannon
      If I’m correct (correct me if I’m wrong) the multipliers for Super Saiyan 4 was at 4,000x
      Then when Goku got a power boost from receiving energy from Gohan, Goten, Trunks & Pan
      Super Saiyan 4 Goku’s power level sky rocketed
      It was estimated that Full Power Super Saiyan 4 multiplier was 40,000x (That estimation could be wrong)

    • @robensmonteau161
      @robensmonteau161 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@ssjxiaokolra323 Oh no. Ssj4 has no set multiplier.
      It draws out a saiyan's potential to it's limits.
      This can even apply to Goku's magic based potential if he has any.
      As for physical potential, the form brings the saiyan in question to their physical prime.
      In other words, the power up would be different between Goku and vegeta.

    • @batguy39
      @batguy39 ปีที่แล้ว

      Bro you got the divine forms in the DIRT

    • @batguy39
      @batguy39 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@ssjxiaokolra323 the regular SSJ4 is

    • @robensmonteau161
      @robensmonteau161 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@batguy39 No, I just didn't give SSJG a number for a multiplier.
      SSJG doesn't officially have one.
      Edit: On the subject of SSJ4 Goku being equal to Z Vegito, that's incorrect.
      The scan you might have pulled it from doesn't even talk about Goku as a super saiyan 4. Just the form itself as a *powerup* being *relative* to the *potara fusion.*

  • @LucasRibeiro-ds5rq
    @LucasRibeiro-ds5rq 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Why is Super Sayan grade 3 is slow?
    I mean it makes no sense at all, why the muscles make the person slower? It was suposed to make it way faster since if there is upgraded muscles in their legs, they were suposed to be stronger, making it more powerfull, right?
    Take as example broly, when he was fighting goku and vegeta, taking off the parts where he was just walking, his punches felt so heavy and yet so fast, the muscles weren't making him slow and yes more powerfull.
    Also is there any way to Master super sayan grade 3?
    I mean super sayan grade 4 is Mastered super sayan, but the possibilite of mastering super sayan grade 3 just seems cool.

    • @srnova9486
      @srnova9486 2 ปีที่แล้ว +6

      SSJ Grade 3 probably isnt slowed down by the muscles
      Its just simply how the form works biologically

    • @SuperKamiGuruu
      @SuperKamiGuruu 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      different transformations all together

    • @batguy39
      @batguy39 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      The bulk of G3 just makes it harder to move, a bit realistic in that regard
      But Broly gives no fucks, that's a different form lmao
      And I'll tell you Evolution fits the mastery of G3 In terms of multipliers and the anime design somewhat. 20xBlue

    • @BeingOfEvil0
      @BeingOfEvil0 ปีที่แล้ว

      """"""no sense""""""

    • @kleber_felinto
      @kleber_felinto ปีที่แล้ว +1

      I think this way: grade 3 has a 10x power multiplier on top of grade 2, but it has 10x less speed than grade 2, this would imply (based on this video calc 5:12) that grade 3 has 1000 of power (grade 2 x 10), but has 10 of speed (grade 2 ÷ 10).
      Which is less speed than grade 1 or even base kaioken x20, grade 3 speed would be just 10x base speed, but 1000x base power.

  • @kristiankember8973
    @kristiankember8973 5 ปีที่แล้ว +10

    I agree, but I'd say the grade 4 is like the limit without muscle meaning its full power is compareable with grade 3 in that is 10x a previous form.
    What I'm trying to say, grade 1 doesn't have muscles while 2 does. So grade 4 being 10x grade 1 instead of grade 2.
    g1 50
    g2 50+
    g3 500+
    g4 500

    • @atari_hmb
      @atari_hmb  5 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      Yes, Trunk's grade 3 is pushing the power to its limits, and so is grade 4, thus they should equal in power, but no in speed. Thanks for commenting and watching!

    • @atari_hmb
      @atari_hmb  5 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      @Martin Ramirez Cell does mention Goku is above Trunks, Vegeta, and Piccolo combined, even after additional training. The form also doesn't raise ki consciously, so it's possible it is ever growing base on the saiyan base. But I'm just issuing that for arguments sake if one used the term "limits" then they'd have to be checkmated into conceding that Grade 4 is at the bare minimum, equal to 3 or stronger. Similar to Gohan, you can't prove Goku is weaker than Gohan without conceding that Vegeta and Goku are top 3, which automatically places both above Gotenks SSJ3 who was a tad bit above Super Buu.
      Which destroys the super buu being above them argument. So I hope this explains to you my thought process on the topic.

    • @kristiankember8973
      @kristiankember8973 5 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      @Martin Ramirez you probably right
      However, the lack actual number just makes mine a safe low estimate.

  • @finishedsbgafw0582
    @finishedsbgafw0582 2 ปีที่แล้ว +13

    Ss3 multiplier has already been announced in the 90's as a 400x to base and ss2 100x base. Ss grade 4 is explained by goku in the manga...
    It is simply ss1 without the (weird feeling) stamina issues.... because grade 2 and 3 waste too much energy.. your body will get much stronger if you don't stress your Body with these superficial grade 2 and 3 forms.. there just strong ss forms that keep your body stressed and weak.. because your body is in constant stress. So the 50x ss1 mastered! Aka grade 4 is the best for fights... that why toriyama said announced THIS is the 90's:
    ss1 is x50
    Ss2 is 100x
    Ss3 is 400x
    Everything else is head cannon from people who didn't here goku explain in the Manga AND Anime! Common guys it's darn near common sense oh well that what I got..

    • @good_dominic4995
      @good_dominic4995 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Announced to be a 400x base where 🤨

    • @finishedsbgafw0582
      @finishedsbgafw0582 2 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      @@good_dominic4995 toriyama original manga. In the beginning of the buu saga. It's been there for decades now. And is where everyone gets the 400x boost to base for ss3.. read it. It goes like this..
      Ss1- x50
      Ss2-x100 (2x ss1)
      Ss3-x400 (4x ss2)
      Early 90s he drew it in a page in the manga for buu saga

    • @miyakiespenido6355
      @miyakiespenido6355 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      @@finishedsbgafw0582 btw, it's also stated in one of the daizenshuu's

    • @mauricejohnson2351
      @mauricejohnson2351 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Dude you are so wrong💀💀💀💀 ssj isn't a 50x stat increase.

    • @mauricejohnson2351
      @mauricejohnson2351 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      @@finishedsbgafw0582 no he did not say that, your talking about that one panel where it says ssj NORMAL freiza saga ssj 1 is 50x amp, ssj 2 is 2x that of grade 4 which is incalculable as stated by toriyama there is no way to mathematically scale the increase of ssj anymore. And ssj3 is 4x that of ssj 2.🤦🏽🤦🏽🤦🏽🤦🏽🤦🏽🤦🏽 if you fully believe that ssj is 50x amp still your crazy.

  • @atari_hmb
    @atari_hmb  5 ปีที่แล้ว +8

    As a heads up, the numbers are approximations. They could be higher or lower depending.

    • @thewarrior4724
      @thewarrior4724 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Especially with the "liberal;" approach all these old shonen anime's are taking, I fear the inconsistency of the scaling in DBS near the end may also affect the DBZ canon.

  • @ssjb4godgoku
    @ssjb4godgoku 2 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    Why ssj2 is 2000 I sure it 100 x

  • @rhett3185
    @rhett3185 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

    If ssg3 is a 10x strength/power amp over ssg2 I actually believe that ssg4 is somewhat weaker or at the very most straight up equal to ssg3 in terms of raw power, it’s advantage is that it simply suffers no speed penalty or stamina drain. Cell remarked that Trunk’s grade 3’s ki was greater than his (this is still fine to say if he’s suppressed as Gohan’s base is likely way higher than Trunks’ was for the argument I’m about to make) in ssg3. When Gohan reached ssj2 Trunks was the first to remark that “he did it, he increased his strength without sacrificing his speed!” Implying he was referring to ssg3’s major flaw, he was amazed by Ssg4 Goku and Gohan but never remarked the astounding difference in pure ki between grade 4 and then grade 5.
    My headcanon would be that:
    Ssj is a 50x to base with a slight drain in stamina
    Ssg2 is a 2x amp over ssj with a slightly higher stamina drain than ssj
    Ssg3 is confirmed to be a 10x amp over ssg2 with a heavy speed penalty and stamina drain
    Ssg4 is actually likely a 5x amp over regular ssj (making the final mastered Super Saiyan a 250x to base) but with no stamina drain and no loss of speed
    Ssg5 or ssj2 is a 2x over Ssg4 making it as strong/powerful as ssg3 but as fast and less demanding as Ssg4.
    If you ever read this I’d like to hear your thoughts, cause I think my headcanon actually fits better and doesn’t make mastered super Saiyan to be something crazy powerful over base whilst acknowledging the obvious narrative and canon amps in power from each grade of super Saiyan.

    • @dabotbruh2555
      @dabotbruh2555 4 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Sorry but ssj4 is way stronger than ssj3

  • @thegodofsaiyans535
    @thegodofsaiyans535 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    GT Guide says that Grade 4>Grade 3.

    • @ohhellwhereami2574
      @ohhellwhereami2574 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      I mean grade 4 is already stronger than grade 3 for instance it is observed grade 3 has drawbacks such as more energy consumption and lower speed so we could say grade 3>4 only in actual raw power otherwise when all of the speed, stamina and power are summed we could say grade 4 is balanced with less energy consumption so grade 4 will be better than grade 3 Overall

    • @thegodofsaiyans535
      @thegodofsaiyans535 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@ohhellwhereami2574
      Strong means having more strength, not Just being better. It makes no sense to say someone is stronger than another If they simply have more stamina, but are weaker in *strength*.

    • @ohhellwhereami2574
      @ohhellwhereami2574 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@thegodofsaiyans535 having more stamina means you have the potential to use your attack more thus it would be useful in battle while speed is main factor cuz if you can't keep up with yr opponent speed there's no way you're going to land a heavy move and would be several outclassed
      But if look at Grade 3 it has
      Pros:heavy damage than grade 2
      Cons:Lesser stamina ,lesser speed than grade 2
      Here's SsJ grade 4
      Pros:More balanced have increased stamina
      Cons:Balanced stats than other grade.

  • @mr.hazamayukiterumi2909
    @mr.hazamayukiterumi2909 5 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    A bit off topic, but I would like to make a request. Can you make a video on your personal opinion on the Vs Battle wiki, and see on if its considered "reliable" or at least, somewhat

    • @atari_hmb
      @atari_hmb  5 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      Yes. I would love to.

    • @mr.hazamayukiterumi2909
      @mr.hazamayukiterumi2909 5 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      @@atari_hmb Awesome! Can't wait to see your thought on it.

  • @tjxendlue677
    @tjxendlue677 ปีที่แล้ว

    Would've make sense if dragon ball kept it this way

  • @Tysuonet
    @Tysuonet ปีที่แล้ว

    Bro multipliers dont make sense, ssj2 6000x would one shot broly, vegeta was on the same level with broly, a ssj should make him 3000x, if the multipliers make sense vegeta should have one shotted broly

  • @jordanglasper1064
    @jordanglasper1064 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I understand the concept, but genuinely this is a contradiction to what was explained in the manga (DBZ) as well as the anime (DBZKAI). What u call Grade 1 & Grade 4 are Not different forms, they are one and the same. The difference between them is one has taken the first step, the other is the final step into Mastery.
    You guys are referring to these forms as if they are two different forms like super Saiyan is to super Saiyan two. That’s not true they are one and the same, one is fully mastered the other has just begun. Grade 2 and grade 3, actually the only difference is grade 3, because Vegeta we’re still only a Super saying. The reason why his physical form look different is because Akira Toriyama was going through a transitioning stage in his art style. The only one who is super pumped up and looks to be so is future trunks. Again, Vegeta was only in the SSJ form. Future trunks was not referring to a different form of SSJ in regards to Vegeta, he was referring to Vegeta exceeding the normal limitations that SSJ had while in the hyperbolic time chamber.
    The contradiction is future trunks thinking as many of you that the super Saiyan multiplier gets stronger power level wise, this is something Goku Vegeta and Gohan knew that was completely false.
    Future trunks felt if he were simply stronger with the emphasis on power/strength, he would have all that he needed to defeat perfect cell. But this was proven false.
    A power level as I’m sure you know it’s comprised of Power/Strength, Speed, Stamina, Endurance, Durability, Battle Intellect & “ki” energy.
    Meaning out of his power level, future trunks only managed to increase his power/strength, but he never increased his speed his stamina his endurance and his durability. This means if he came up against the opponent who has the speed on top of the power and strength as well as the stamina and endurance durability & “ki” energy. Future trunks would never be able to beat because he’s lacking in every other category that makes up a power level.
    Many of feel Ultra Super Saiyan Future Trunks is on par with Perfect Cell based on how that fight went. Not gonna lie it did look impressive. But also many of you missed out on the greatest contacts within that battle. Which is two factors. 1) Perfect Cell was already heavily suppressed. 2) Perfect Cell was holding back far more, while he was heavily suppressed. So essentially he was pretending to act as though future trunks stood a genuine chance at beating him. This is essentially perfect cell having fun, giving false hope to a hero who thinks he really has the power to beat the villain. It’s sad how many fans missed out on this. I’m not saying you the content creator of this video missed out on it. But I believe you do to a small degree, because you never spoke on it. This is the contents the grants validation and evidence to what I’m saying. But it is a diss army method to the concept in which you’re talking about and many of the fans believe in.
    Vegeta referred to himself as Super Vegeta. This in no way implies that Vegeta has gained a stronger or higher multiplier in the SSJ form. This just means that Vegeta is proud that he surpassed the benchmark of power that Goku created back on planet Namek and the current power level of Goku, when vs The Androids. A key tie in point is in the Buu Arc. When SSJ Vegito referred to himself as Super Vegito.
    On future trunks was talking to Vegeta after he as well as the rest of the Z fighters witnessed mastered super Saiyan Goku and Gohan emerge from the hyperbolic time chamber for the very first time. This category of grades within the Super saying is exactly what future transfers thinking. He thought they would get a lot stronger he thought the multiplier was higher and he also thought they would get a transformation on top of already being in a transformed state. But Vegeta scolded him and told him how stupid basically he was thinking. Because Goku and Gohan‘s multiplier of the transformed state of super Saiyan was not higher than theirs. But they were far stronger because they had mastered the state, allowing them to move about normally as if they were in their base form. This will grant basically no weaknesses within Super saying because they have mastered the form.
    OK let’s get down to it and when it comes to the brass tactics of the bulky forms being stronger in regards to pure power and strength this is true. But the reason why it doesn’t matter is because there is no speed increase, there is no stamina increase, there is no endurance increase, there is no durability increase. There is a “ki” energy increase, but it is unbalanced. Because within the key energy aura, only the power and strength increase but nothing else that makes up a power level increases. So essentially it has a power and strength of the power level that it should be on, but again the speed stamina endurance durability is not up to the same level as the power and strength. So essentially basically being able to dish out punishment, but not having the durability to withstand the same said punishment because of what I just stated. If power and strength is 100 but the durability is a five just like the speed is a five stamina is a five endurance is a five, as soon as this warrior gets hit with the same level of power from the punch or higher. It’s either going to kill him knock him out or weaken him to a very high degree. Because he’s basically not durable enough to handle the power and strength he is able to exert.
    Goku realize this in the hyperbolic time chamber essentially what you guys call grade 2 and grade 3 are in complete forms of the SSJ transformation. They are essentially useless transformations. Because all it increases its power and strength it does not increase speed stamina endurance nor durability. It actually kills speed stamina endurance and durability. Because it’s not able to rise with the power and the strength
    If only the power and strength increases without the speed stamina endurance and durability as well as key energy. Then that is a failure. The Fanbase place is too much emphasis on these variation these in complete useless transformations, simply because it is a variation from the natural super Saiyan state. As a reason why Goku Gohan and Vegeta never used these forms in combat. Because these are useless forms. So it is good to highlight and talk about because it’s part of the journey. But again it just goes to show the reason why future Chance used such trash useless in complete forms of SSJ, is because his mentality was full of desperation. He came from a world where most of the Z fighters are dead. And the only one who was there to teach him future Gohan to be specific, also suffer from a fraction mentality having to do everything on his own and not having any gutters got any guidance no leader ship and no love. No protection. And at least one with a weak mentality. Even if they grow in strength under those conditions it will be minimal at best.
    This is placated to future Chance grasping at straws. Ultimately Goku’s has always fundamentally trained in his base form, what is the difference between Goku’s and Namek Goku’s in the cell games and Goku in the Buu Arc? Goku base form is much stronger in each arc, especially in the Buu arc.
    I’m willing to bet before any San can master the SSJ state, their base form must be at a power level that is strong enough to endure that level of stress that it puts on the body.
    So even before they can consistently train while in the SSJ form, their base form at bare minimum must be high enough strong enough powerful enough to even be able to stay in that state for long periods of time. So essentially they’ll transform remain in that state of being for as long as possible, it might start off as far as anywhere from three hours. And then they time out and then they must be power. And then progressively train to longer periods of time until they can stay in that state of being for 24 hours. Or possibly longer.
    It’s not the SSJ form bringing out the highest level and limitations of the Saiyan. It is the type of training the saying does to get the SSJ form to perform at the highest level. That is what it was talking about. And that is why none of what you were talking about and what the fan base is talking about Canby or ever will be substantiated in the manga in the anime and in the guide books. Because even the guide books when pertaining to specific details and what we’re talking about. It’s basic at best I didn’t totality but in specification details in regards to power levels in regards to this form versus that form or this form in comparison to that form. A perfect example of this is to show when it’s talking about the buff super Saiyan forms, and all it says is it just kill speed. That’s not all it does if you paid attention in both the manga and the anime it specifically showed the stamina wasn’t up to par the endurance wasn’t up to par the durability wasn’t up to par and the key energy was lacking so the speed it killed the speed but it killed everything else to except for power/strength.
    And because Goku always trains in his base form, that will grant Super saying to become exponentially more powerful than he was previously. Goku is always training it always growing in power. So that stands to reason why each new level of power he obtains in his base form makes his super Saiyan state that much more greater. The multiplier never changes the multiplier never moves, it doesn’t have to. Because the connection to all of this is the saying base form. If The Saiyan base form stays the same, the Saiyan might’ve will give up and their pursuit of power. Because they’re not making any gains.
    The Saiyan base form is essential to everythin. If the Saiyan base form does not get a stronger. Non of the traditional Super Saiyan Forms will get any Stronger.

    • @atari_hmb
      @atari_hmb  3 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@jordanglasper1064 it may seem like it's contradicted if you read it straightforward but in reality due to a lot of data books and guidebooks and other implications within the story it's very clear that a mastered variant can dish out more power because the initial form was treated like a base it's almost like going super Saiyan on top of a super Saiyan which explains why Goku with far less training was somehow able to significantly increase the gap between him and Vegeta as well as trunks who had far more time than he had yet this form allowed them to utilize the form more effectively and dish out more power as even celll comments on how much stronger they were.
      That's the reason why even the daizenshuu categorizes it as grade 4. To differentiate itself from the other counterparts along with many other guys that have been approved and published by shueisha which don't seem to contradict this assessment

  • @suzurankishigane3995
    @suzurankishigane3995 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Before I watch the Video, I'm here to state this now.
    I've seen Multiple times of the word Perfected, Mastered, and True on multiple Forms within the Dragon Ball Series, which, most of the times, Perfected Forms have a ×1.2 Increase, True Forms has ×2 Increase, and Mastered has ×2.5 Increase, and all 3 are Stackable, aka a Mastered Perfected True Form is a ×6, and all 3 of this are the Grade 4, meaning it doesn't stack with the ×1.15 to ×1.2 Grade 2 or ×1.5 to ×1.8 Grade 3 Forms.
    The Grades are, in a way, steps to Perfection and Mastery of it's True Form.
    When Goku attain Super Saiyan at the 1st time, he's slowly, yet for him, noticably loosing stamina, on the Grade 2, even though it increases his Speed, he's still loosing Stamina, even more so when he lost both Speed and Stamina on the Grade 3 despite the Strength Increase, Obtaining Grade 4 meant loosing the Stamina Issue to the point that it felt like they're just in their base forms without loosing Stamina, yet still kept their Increased Strength and Speed.
    In Short, Grade 4 Super Saiyan isn't a ×50 Increase, but a ×50 to ×300 Increase, while Super Saiyan 2, aka Grade 5 Super Saiyan, is a ×100 to ×600 Increase/Multiplier to base, and Super Saiyan 2 isn't a Perfected form like Grade 4 Super Saiyan, meaning, Super Saiyan 2 also have 4 Grades to go to as well for Perfection.
    This Stamina Issue I'm talking about is more Present in Super Saiyan 3, a ×4 Multiplier to Super Saiyan 2, where they can't even use it for long.
    Meaning, if the Fusion itself, aka the Users of the Fusion not only has Perfected a Certain Form and has the perfect amount of Power to each other, the 30 Minutes to 1 Hour Limit to said Fusion won't even decrease quickly and kept said timer without any problem.
    Imagine how much Damage would a 30 Minutes Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks could create than the 5 Minutes Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks.
    Hell, Full Power is literally a ×10 in most Forms, meaning, Grade 4 Super Saiyan could be ×50 to ×300 to ×500 to ×3k.

  • @aaronstrerk5521
    @aaronstrerk5521 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Multipliers are too big. Completely against Akira Toriyama's style. It makes more sense for SSG2 to increase the Super Saiyan Multiplier like the Kaio-Ken's linear progression. SSG2 is a 65x base, SSG3 is a 100x base, and SSG4 is a 75x base, making SS2 150x Boost. If SSG4 has the full power of SSG3 then that would make SS2 a 200 times multiplier.

    • @resolute7177
      @resolute7177 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      "Multipliers are too big. Completely against Akira Toriyama's style"
      the guide book that was approved by him stated that super saiyan grade 3 was 10x stronger than grade 2... it's not a opinion its fact

    • @aaronstrerk5521
      @aaronstrerk5521 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@resolute7177 Why you lying? I've searched high and low for this info. There's never been official multipliers given for Grades 2 and 3. But presumably they'd both lie somewhere in-between Super Saiyan 1 and 2. That's why what I say make sense and what you said sounds like pure head cannon.

    • @resolute7177
      @resolute7177 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      @@aaronstrerk5521 i am not lying it's in spanish probably why you ain't see it 😂😂
      This video showed solid proof and also showed the guide that has the statement where it said Grade 3 ss was 10x that of vegeta's form which was grade 2
      Please don't call another a lair because your lack of research or understanding of the topic

    • @resolute7177
      @resolute7177 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      @@aaronstrerk5521 the only head cannon here is the multipler for grade 2 but his argument for it being 2x ssj 1 is reasonable
      But grade 3 is 10x grade 2 it's just a fact you gonna have to accept homie

    • @aaronstrerk5521
      @aaronstrerk5521 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@resolute7177 I wonder how many times I have to say it. There is no official material that states that. NONE. I've looked...a lot. The only official material we have is SS1 is 50 times, SS2 is twice as strong as that, SS3 is four times as strong as SS2, making it a 400x multiplier. There is nothing outside that OFFICIAL material that states what Grade 2 and 3 are.
      It sounds more plausible that Grade 3 is on par or just slightly weaker than SS2. But only in the Ki boosting property. SSG3 likely comes with a negative to both speed and mobility that make the form significantly weaker than SS2. Like a loss of 50 to 80% If Trunks got a 10 times boost on top of his Super Saiyan Transformation, regardless of mass, he would have been able to kill Cell with a snap of his finger.

  • @andrewbowen8293
    @andrewbowen8293 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    SSJ2 is not 2x Grade 4, it is (Just as Strong as Grade 4). SSJ2 Only Raises the Speed by 2x. It is only Stronger than Grade 1,
    and it is 20x Stronger than Grade 1.
    SSJ2 is Exactly the Same as Grade 4 in terms of having the same exact increase in Muscle Mass, the Same Exact Multiplier as Grade 4, and Exactly the Same as Grade 4 where it Takes in all of the Extra Muscle mass and turns all of that excess muscle mass and surpasses that Limit by taking in all of that muscle mass by having (Increase Control) after Reaching Grade 3, and then can go further, and the 1 and Only thing that SSJ2 does that SSJ Grade 4 does not do is raise the (Speed) of the Form Upon Increasing how Big the Muscles are, and Increasing the Multiplier of the Form.
    In Easier Terms, SSJ2 is Only the Speed Increased Version of SSJ Grade4, (Not Stronger in any way at all), so don’t go thinking that SSJ2 is Stronger because (All) of the proof here (Clearly) Shows (HOW) that it is (NOT). It Just Shows 1 (Extra) Feature that (Grade 4) Does (NOT) Show or Increase like SSJ2 Shows and Increases. Remember, SSJ2 (ONLY) Increases the Speed
    (Not Size of the Muscles/Multiplier), and Only Increases Speed by 2 Times/2x than Grade 4.
    So don’t get Confused with What SSJ Grade 4, and What SSJ2 do. That is an (Extreamly) Common Misconseption that (Many) People have when Using that Nonsence 2x that they see in that Guide Book. The 2x Next to where you see the SSJ 2 Form is Really Only 2x increase in Speed, (Does NOT Multiply or Increase the Size of the Muscles/Strength
    by anything) at all.
    Sure you may say: Gohan had an Increase in the Size of his Muscles when he turned SSJ2 for the first time ever when he went up against Cell, but that was just for show so that they can make money off of this form. It is not (Also) a Strength Multiplier, that is just a Mistake that the animators made when they wanted SSJ2 to look good, but there is (NO) Increase in Strength, there is (Only) an Multiplied Increase In Speed witch is what the Electricity that Sourounds the User of the SSJ2 Form. The Electricity is The Speed Increase (Not the Strength Increase).
    Proof: You see (Grade 3) Have a Muscle Mass that is (Out Of This World), But Guess what? (You Don’t See Any Electricity) Comming out of the Aura of the 3rd Grade Form. (Note: Another Super Common Misconseption is that People think that Grade 3, and LSSJ are Different (Just because the Hair Colors are different) that is (Not) true at all)) Because There was a Coloring Mistake with the Grade 3 animating when shooting the 1st Broly Movie In 1993. Proof: In Movie 10, they (Fixed that) by Showing the Audiance that (It was Just Simply Grade 3) the Whole time, and they just wanted to make it 100% Broken by adding the Addons to What Nurfed the SSJ Grade 3 Form, and they wanted to Show what Grade 3 Would Look Like (When it is not Nurfed at all).
    You might also say:
    But I saw Truks Fight Cell in the 3rd Grade/Legendary Form and his Strength appeared to (Match Cells Strength) but not be able to Push Cells Arms back when they were doing (Pushing) hand to hand Combat. What you are seeing there are 2 things:
    1) They (Already Knew) that Muscles Beat Everything (As Long as they are the Biggest),
    So they wanted to (Make it Look Like) Third Grade 3 Would just Tie Cell and Not Surpass him in Strength by Cutting off that excess strength until it Matched up with Cells arm Strength Level (I Don’t know why) but thats what the Director just wanted to decide to do because it would destroy all other people that are Physically weaker that Anyone with the Grade 3/LSSJ Form.
    2) They Then Had other Ideas for More Forms so they Nurfed the Third Grade Form, so that they can add as many other SSJ forms that they wanted to add in the Future without making the other forms look (Weak) in terms of how (BIG) the Arms are in for the other forms (While making the “Other Forms” have bigger Multipliers.

  • @thenoirknight5729
    @thenoirknight5729 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Man, there are a lot of these Super Saiyan Grade videos. How I see it is like this (in part because of TeamFourStar's DragonBall Z Abridged): Super Saiyan (Grade 1) is 50×, Super Saiyan (Grade 2) is 60× or 62.5×, Super Saiyan (Grade 3) is 75× or 85×, and Super Saiyan (Grade 4) is the same as Grade 1 with a 50× but without any of the drawbacks and essentially being a base form (meaning Kaioken usage is possible in Grade 4)

    • @batguy39
      @batguy39 ปีที่แล้ว

      Ew Bridge
      Grade 2 tanks a SSJ tier, 100x
      Grade 3 is 10x something, you can pick between G1 or G2
      And Grade 4 is just an optimised Grade 1, 50x

    • @bluntslt8023
      @bluntslt8023 ปีที่แล้ว

      You had me until you said super Saiyan grade 4 is only a 50x multiplier.