Here's the Passive Perception article (which also mentions a rule for audible distance that is only found on the original 5e DM screen): www.flutesloot.com/passive-perception-dnd5e-explained-best-skill/ A common comment the video is receiving is about my statement about Passive Perception as a skill floor. I added this section to my article to address this, so I'll include it here: "I've received pushback on Passive Perception as a skill floor, so I'll expound on that. I believe a DM should make a binary choice to use Passive Perception or not for the whole game, not in instances. Making the call to use rolls in instances can confuse players at best and erode trust at worst. After all, if the DM sometimes uses Passive Perception but other times does not, it can feel like they're hoping you fail with a lower roll. Passive Perception is effectively a skill floor if you use it because why would you roll except to do better? As Jeremy Crawford, lead designer for 5e, points out in Sage Advice, why roll to notice something you could've already noticed passively? There is also a difference between the general rules for Passive Checks and Passive Perception. The rules for Passive Checks are effectively the old-school "taking 20" rules for when you spend enough time to assumedly succeed at a task without needing to roll. However, Passive Perception is a core part of the game that other rules are reliant on. For example, from the Hiding rules: Passive Perception. When you hide, there's a chance someone will notice you even if they aren't searching. To determine whether such a creature notices you, the DM compares your Dexterity (Stealth) check with that creature's passive Wisdom (Perception) score, which equals 10 + the creature's Wisdom modifier, as well as any other bonuses or penalties. If the creature has advantage, add 5. For disadvantage, subtract 5. For example, if a 1st-level character (with a proficiency bonus of +2) has a Wisdom of 15 (a +2 modifier) and proficiency in Perception, he or she has a passive Wisdom (Perception) of 14. PHB chapter 7 In my opinion, it's clear that D&D 5e is designed to always have Passive Perception as a core game mechanic, not a pick-and-choose rule. It should be applied as a binary "always used" or "never used" game mechanic, not a DM fiat rule."
The audible distances are found on several DM screens. PP is misused as much as many other rules in the game. A quick example would be speaking during combat, and how you can ONLY on your turn. How stealth works in general is misunderstood or ignored completely, often to unfairly reward heavy armor wearers that have dumped dexterity and/or perception. Also, I think you should change your use of "taking 20" to the term "taking 10", as that is much more accurate.
While an interesting house rule, if you roll lower than a passive ability (perception or otherwise), you do not take the passive score instead. What you described is a Rogue's Reliable Talent feature, which they get at level 11.
I'll quote Jeremy Crawford to clarify: "The DM decides whether to use Passive Perception. If you do use it, a check is unnecessary if a passive score already noticed something." If you don't use Passive Perception, you'd just roll. If you do, why roll instead if not to do better? I bring this up in the video because I have known DMs to use Passive Perception, but then they ask for a roll because they're hoping the player will roll lower than their Passive Perception. This comes across as combative (and in my opinion, silly), negating players' choices to invest in Passive Perception. It's not consistent, and it's fairness and consistency that create trust between players and DMs.
@@FlutesLoot I agree with your question, and have also played in games with those DMs. That's usually a small problem in a host of other problems. Nevertheless, the reason a player asks to roll in the first place is to do better than their passive. The risk is that you may do worse. It's up to DM interpretation, and I definitely see your point. You presented it as a rule. It is not a rule. I'd say a fair way to run passive anything is how I do it (and I'm biased, obviously): Does the player's passive notice the thing? Give it to them. Does their passive not do it? Let them roll. It's close to what you stated, but is how the game is written rather than a house rule. I think your issue is with wangrod DMs. I agree that those are bad!
@@kiligir I do have a problem with DMs eroding the trust of their players, but I think they usually do so by accident. I'm pointing out that they're probably making a mistake if they're not aware of this instance. I consider Passive Perception to be a core part of the game because Hiding, for example, specifically uses it (not optional). It's reasonable for others to interpret that it's not a core rule outside of those instances, but I don't see value in running the game that way.
What Veteran players also know is that Passive Perception if used by a Dungeon Master can still be metagamed. If you are distracted or busy doing something else you don't apply Passive Perception or active checks (not radar that's always turned on). A reasonable run-down of the hornets nest PP. You have been busy Jordan 😀
Excellent video! I've always house-ruled that a passive score only works when it's not active (not rolled). That just seems more fun to me personally but that's also something to bring to the attention of your players before they make build choices like taking the observant feat and/or expertise in perception because they might prefer a different option! Also, I never considered adding a +5 to an owl's PP because of their keen sight... I was wondering if that's mentioned in the rules but, even if it isn't, that would only apply to sight so I think you'd have to be correct on that!
@@JnJake I changed my mind based on what seems to be the most fair and consistent way to run it. I believe I was also influenced by running official modules in recent years instead of homebrew as I did in my early days.
@@FlutesLoot Great point about modules vs homebrew! I guess for me, it makes more sense to not have that be a floor because I wonder why we don’t do that for other skills (or at least the games I’ve been in don’t). EDIT: I kind of feel like this method steps on the Rogue’s Reliable Talent a bit. That’s essentially like the same thing, no?
@@JnJake I too do not use skill floors for all skills. I conclude that Passive Perception is too integral to core game mechanics to ignore (hiding, surprise, traps, secret doors, etc.), so I always use it by default; if I always use it, the only reason I'd ask a player to roll is if they didn't already perceive something, and then it really doesn't matter if they roll lower because the PP already came into effect. It can be argued that PP and any passive checks step on Reliable Talent's toes, but any passive check would step on its toes because then the Rogue couldn't roll (technically). However, passives are not the same as Reliable Talent. For example, Reliable Talent still has 10+ as the skill floor regardless of disadvantage. Passive Perception in dim light could negate bonuses to make PP 10-12, but Reliable Talent wouldn't care about dim light, resulting in bonuses in tact for still getting a Perception 18-20 (or whatever the bonuses end up being, but I'm assuming Expertise). On the other hand, Reliable Talent doesn't benefit from advantage like PP, so PP could still be higher with advantage's +5 to passive checks. Reliable Talent also helps with the Search action, which you only need to use if PP wasn't good enough.
Is the goal of passive perception to just remove traps and mystery from the game? It's pretty easy to auto succeed on perception checks in wotc published materials.
I don't believe that is the goal, but WotC modules often set Passive Perception DCs very low for things like secret doors. It's also not as easy to succeed at Passive Perception as people think, particularly with darkvision, but I already covered that in the video so I won't repeat myself. :P
one more thing about perception and stealth which can help adjudicate surprise and when combat starts is audible distance. basically, you can be unseen and moving far from someone who can perceive you. there's no need to roll a stealth/perception check until certain distances are reached. if you are unseen and can perceive an enemy before the distance they can hear you and you commit a hostile act, then surprise is achieved/combat starts. here's the details from the source: Audible Distance Trying to be quiet 2d6 × 5 feet Normal noise level 2d6 × 10 feet Very loud 2d6 × 50 feet so if you are trying to be stealthy and can see at least 60+ ft away while being unseen, no way an enemy can perceive you unless you make a sound (trample a twig, knock over a vase, cast a spell with a verbal component, have equipment that make noise, talk, etc). DM fiat here on the audible distance as it can be as short as 10 ft or as wide as 60 ft. of course, blindsight, tremorsense distances override these when applicable. thought i'd share it here as i find some DMs/players aren't aware of this and this messes up how they rule surprise or any stealth challenges.
@@FlutesLoot nah. this is pure audible distance encounter. its how far a creature can hear something depending if what they're trying to hear is trying to be stealthy or making a ruckus. to make the example clearer. lets say the whole party is invisible/behind cover/within illusions and is stealthing. their stealth result doesnt matter until they hit 60 ft of another creature at least. if they engage from 61+ ft away, that's automatic surprise. no perception/stealth needed because you can only use perception to hear someone quiet within 60 ft maximum. this is because the rules specify you can only hear someone being stealthy once they cross into the 2d6 x 5 ft range. 10 being the minimum range and 60 being the max. the dm can roll this or just take whatever number he wants, using perhaps the environment or circumstance to determine the number chosen. if the party crosses into the audible range, then thats where passive perception and the lowest stealth roll of the party matters to determine surprise (if wishing to engage in combat) or passing through undetected, if that's the party's goal.
@Rob Vera got it, we're assuming sight isn't a factor and the only detection method would be hearing. I was wondering why I never heard of this audible distance, and it's because it's not in a rulebook, just the first 5e DM's screen. That's interesting.
@@FlutesLoot yeah i think thats why some people dont know about it as they didnt get the 5E dm screen or didnt check out copies/excerpts of it online. imo wotc should've included something as important as that in the phb/dmg. iirc JC also talked about it in one of the vids/podcasts.
I don't personally like the part about your passive being your floor for the roll. I feel like you should use passive perception or ignore it, not kind of use it at all times. I know this is different than RAW
Do you or your DM selectively choose when to use Passive Perception, or do you decide once at session zero? If it's the latter, it's effectively a skill floor. I'm not a fan of the former method as it creates confusion and can undermine trust.
@@FlutesLoot Passive anything is usable by the DM as they see fit. The rules of the game specify several situations that may warrant the DM deciding to use a passive ability check. Using a creature’s passive perception as a floor is a house rule at Jeremy Crawford’s table.
@@johnandrewbellner you're referring to passive checks in general, which is 5e's version of the "taking 20" rule from previous editions. Passive Perception is specifically designed to be part of core D&D 5e. The PHB reads, "The rules on hiding in the 'Dexterity' section . . . rely on passive checks, as do the exploration rules." And here are the Hiding rules in regards to Passive Perception: "Passive Perception. When you hide, there's a chance someone will notice you even if they aren't searching. To determine whether such a creature notices you, the DM compares your Dexterity (Stealth) check with that creature's passive Wisdom (Perception) score, which equals 10 + the creature's Wisdom modifier, as well as any other bonuses or penalties. If the creature has advantage, add 5. For disadvantage, subtract 5. For example, if a 1st-level character (with a proficiency bonus of +2) has a Wisdom of 15 (a +2 modifier) and proficiency in Perception, he or she has a passive Wisdom (Perception) of 14." Edit: I could see an argument for Passive Perception to not always be on outside of those core instances, but I don't recommend picking and choosing for DMs maintaining trust and enabling character builds. I appreciate you pushing back on this so I can explain what I mean in the video.
@@FlutesLoot Using the rules you've posted, the ONLY situation in which passive anything is used as a floor is exclusively and solely ONLY when determining if someone is hiding successfully or not. 100% of the rest of the time in the rest of the game, passive anything is either used or not used at the DM discretion. This is in the game to prevent stealth as being too strong. Passive perception is not an automatic thing in any other situation outside hiding unless the DM explicitly deems it so on a case by case basis. On a side note, this is a strength not understood by the vast majority of people early on till today regarding the PHB beast master. At level level 3, many beast companions have passive perception scores as high as 20. "You can't hide from my wolf!"
I don’t like the passive perception as a way to avoid surprise. I think if you’re expecting combat there should not be surprise. Imho Yes perception is a very big thing in 5e
I'm not really a fan of the trend towards passive abilities. In dndbeyond character sheets already have passive perception, investigation, and insight now. As DM I allow passive perception because everyone is used to it already, but in session 0 I made sure everyone knows that having a high passive perception doesn't mean you automatically see everything. I mean, I guess we could just make everything passive abilities and don't even need to roll for anything anymore, lol.
I've heard speculation from some people who think one day D&D will be diceless :P The only passive score I use regularly is Passive Perception, but that's just me.
@@FlutesLoot i find diceless dnd happens more in online play. It kind of prohibits people from "fudging" their dice rolls. Personally, i'd like to have less dice rolls at the table as it makes things run quicker. The only i still want as a dice roll are atk rolls (due to crit hits) and dmg rolls (as players find this fun). The others i dont mind being passive/diceless.
@@FlutesLoot Yeah, I've been worried about it myself. Seems obvious that they're trying to go that way. Rolling dice is fun. I think it's part of what gives a player the feeling that they're actually doing something. If you ever watched any live stream pay attention to the excitement from players rolling the dice, lol.
One thing I don't agree with: when something has a stat block that clearly lists their passive perception, and it says something like "Keen Sight" you wouldn't actually add that. It would already be factored in. Otherwise, why have it listed? And not have it as like "Base Passive Perception." OF COURSE it's going to use it's eyes. Either that, or it's poor design.
@@FlutesLoot you're right here. this is what i got as well. i think the reason they didn't add it in because there would be times it wouldnt be applicable. like keen sight would only apply if theres a chance to see the creature. if you're relying on hearing or smell like if a creature is invisible then it doesn't apply.
@@TheRobversion1 I agree that's probably why. They probably should create a standard 13(18) way to annotate varying Passive Perceptions in monster statblocks.
Here's the Passive Perception article (which also mentions a rule for audible distance that is only found on the original 5e DM screen): www.flutesloot.com/passive-perception-dnd5e-explained-best-skill/
A common comment the video is receiving is about my statement about Passive Perception as a skill floor. I added this section to my article to address this, so I'll include it here:
"I've received pushback on Passive Perception as a skill floor, so I'll expound on that. I believe a DM should make a binary choice to use Passive Perception or not for the whole game, not in instances. Making the call to use rolls in instances can confuse players at best and erode trust at worst. After all, if the DM sometimes uses Passive Perception but other times does not, it can feel like they're hoping you fail with a lower roll. Passive Perception is effectively a skill floor if you use it because why would you roll except to do better? As Jeremy Crawford, lead designer for 5e, points out in Sage Advice, why roll to notice something you could've already noticed passively?
There is also a difference between the general rules for Passive Checks and Passive Perception. The rules for Passive Checks are effectively the old-school "taking 20" rules for when you spend enough time to assumedly succeed at a task without needing to roll. However, Passive Perception is a core part of the game that other rules are reliant on.
For example, from the Hiding rules:
Passive Perception. When you hide, there's a chance someone will notice you even if they aren't searching. To determine whether such a creature notices you, the DM compares your Dexterity (Stealth) check with that creature's passive Wisdom (Perception) score, which equals 10 + the creature's Wisdom modifier, as well as any other bonuses or penalties. If the creature has advantage, add 5. For disadvantage, subtract 5. For example, if a 1st-level character (with a proficiency bonus of +2) has a Wisdom of 15 (a +2 modifier) and proficiency in Perception, he or she has a passive Wisdom (Perception) of 14.
PHB chapter 7
In my opinion, it's clear that D&D 5e is designed to always have Passive Perception as a core game mechanic, not a pick-and-choose rule. It should be applied as a binary "always used" or "never used" game mechanic, not a DM fiat rule."
The audible distances are found on several DM screens.
PP is misused as much as many other rules in the game. A quick example would be speaking during combat, and how you can ONLY on your turn. How stealth works in general is misunderstood or ignored completely, often to unfairly reward heavy armor wearers that have dumped dexterity and/or perception.
Also, I think you should change your use of "taking 20" to the term "taking 10", as that is much more accurate.
@@johnandrewbellner I said past editions had a taking 20 rule, and that's true forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?525650-Taking-20-dnd-3-5
@@FlutesLoot Yes indeed. But passive checks are taking 10. It’s just a little confusing to call it taking 20.
@@johnandrewbellner I added a clarifying line
While an interesting house rule, if you roll lower than a passive ability (perception or otherwise), you do not take the passive score instead. What you described is a Rogue's Reliable Talent feature, which they get at level 11.
Yeah, Critical Role has been WAY more RAW in c2 and 3, and they don't just default to Passive so I was like, "Huh. Is that true?" I don't think it is.
I'll quote Jeremy Crawford to clarify: "The DM decides whether to use Passive Perception. If you do use it, a check is unnecessary if a passive score already noticed something." If you don't use Passive Perception, you'd just roll. If you do, why roll instead if not to do better?
I bring this up in the video because I have known DMs to use Passive Perception, but then they ask for a roll because they're hoping the player will roll lower than their Passive Perception. This comes across as combative (and in my opinion, silly), negating players' choices to invest in Passive Perception. It's not consistent, and it's fairness and consistency that create trust between players and DMs.
@@FlutesLoot I agree with your question, and have also played in games with those DMs. That's usually a small problem in a host of other problems.
Nevertheless, the reason a player asks to roll in the first place is to do better than their passive. The risk is that you may do worse. It's up to DM interpretation, and I definitely see your point. You presented it as a rule. It is not a rule.
I'd say a fair way to run passive anything is how I do it (and I'm biased, obviously): Does the player's passive notice the thing? Give it to them. Does their passive not do it? Let them roll. It's close to what you stated, but is how the game is written rather than a house rule.
I think your issue is with wangrod DMs. I agree that those are bad!
@@kiligir I do have a problem with DMs eroding the trust of their players, but I think they usually do so by accident. I'm pointing out that they're probably making a mistake if they're not aware of this instance.
I consider Passive Perception to be a core part of the game because Hiding, for example, specifically uses it (not optional). It's reasonable for others to interpret that it's not a core rule outside of those instances, but I don't see value in running the game that way.
What Veteran players also know is that Passive Perception if used by a Dungeon Master can still be metagamed. If you are distracted or busy doing something else you don't apply Passive Perception or active checks (not radar that's always turned on). A reasonable run-down of the hornets nest PP. You have been busy Jordan 😀
Yeah, this one is a can of worms that many people hate :P
Great video Jordan! I'm running a 5e campaign for my coworkers in a month so I'm doing a crash course to remind myself of all the rules 😂
I'm glad I could help! Let me know if I can assist again in your preparations.
Awesome video!
Thank you!
Excellent video! I've always house-ruled that a passive score only works when it's not active (not rolled). That just seems more fun to me personally but that's also something to bring to the attention of your players before they make build choices like taking the observant feat and/or expertise in perception because they might prefer a different option!
Also, I never considered adding a +5 to an owl's PP because of their keen sight... I was wondering if that's mentioned in the rules but, even if it isn't, that would only apply to sight so I think you'd have to be correct on that!
Thank you, Jake! I'm glad the video got you thinking about Passive Perception. I used to run it how you described but changed my mind in recent years.
@@FlutesLoot What was it that made you change you mind?
@@JnJake I changed my mind based on what seems to be the most fair and consistent way to run it. I believe I was also influenced by running official modules in recent years instead of homebrew as I did in my early days.
@@FlutesLoot Great point about modules vs homebrew! I guess for me, it makes more sense to not have that be a floor because I wonder why we don’t do that for other skills (or at least the games I’ve been in don’t).
EDIT: I kind of feel like this method steps on the Rogue’s Reliable Talent a bit. That’s essentially like the same thing, no?
@@JnJake I too do not use skill floors for all skills. I conclude that Passive Perception is too integral to core game mechanics to ignore (hiding, surprise, traps, secret doors, etc.), so I always use it by default; if I always use it, the only reason I'd ask a player to roll is if they didn't already perceive something, and then it really doesn't matter if they roll lower because the PP already came into effect.
It can be argued that PP and any passive checks step on Reliable Talent's toes, but any passive check would step on its toes because then the Rogue couldn't roll (technically). However, passives are not the same as Reliable Talent. For example, Reliable Talent still has 10+ as the skill floor regardless of disadvantage. Passive Perception in dim light could negate bonuses to make PP 10-12, but Reliable Talent wouldn't care about dim light, resulting in bonuses in tact for still getting a Perception 18-20 (or whatever the bonuses end up being, but I'm assuming Expertise). On the other hand, Reliable Talent doesn't benefit from advantage like PP, so PP could still be higher with advantage's +5 to passive checks. Reliable Talent also helps with the Search action, which you only need to use if PP wasn't good enough.
This is a great refresher!
Thanks, Bob!
Is the goal of passive perception to just remove traps and mystery from the game? It's pretty easy to auto succeed on perception checks in wotc published materials.
I don't believe that is the goal, but WotC modules often set Passive Perception DCs very low for things like secret doors. It's also not as easy to succeed at Passive Perception as people think, particularly with darkvision, but I already covered that in the video so I won't repeat myself. :P
This is a great overview
Thank you, Timothy!
one more thing about perception and stealth which can help adjudicate surprise and when combat starts is audible distance. basically, you can be unseen and moving far from someone who can perceive you. there's no need to roll a stealth/perception check until certain distances are reached. if you are unseen and can perceive an enemy before the distance they can hear you and you commit a hostile act, then surprise is achieved/combat starts. here's the details from the source:
Audible Distance
Trying to be quiet 2d6 × 5 feet
Normal noise level 2d6 × 10 feet
Very loud 2d6 × 50 feet
so if you are trying to be stealthy and can see at least 60+ ft away while being unseen, no way an enemy can perceive you unless you make a sound (trample a twig, knock over a vase, cast a spell with a verbal component, have equipment that make noise, talk, etc). DM fiat here on the audible distance as it can be as short as 10 ft or as wide as 60 ft. of course, blindsight, tremorsense distances override these when applicable.
thought i'd share it here as i find some DMs/players aren't aware of this and this messes up how they rule surprise or any stealth challenges.
I assume you're talking about darkness and the common distance of darkvision when you use 60 feet in the example, right?
@@FlutesLoot nah. this is pure audible distance encounter. its how far a creature can hear something depending if what they're trying to hear is trying to be stealthy or making a ruckus.
to make the example clearer. lets say the whole party is invisible/behind cover/within illusions and is stealthing. their stealth result doesnt matter until they hit 60 ft of another creature at least. if they engage from 61+ ft away, that's automatic surprise. no perception/stealth needed because you can only use perception to hear someone quiet within 60 ft maximum. this is because the rules specify you can only hear someone being stealthy once they cross into the 2d6 x 5 ft range. 10 being the minimum range and 60 being the max. the dm can roll this or just take whatever number he wants, using perhaps the environment or circumstance to determine the number chosen.
if the party crosses into the audible range, then thats where passive perception and the lowest stealth roll of the party matters to determine surprise (if wishing to engage in combat) or passing through undetected, if that's the party's goal.
@Rob Vera got it, we're assuming sight isn't a factor and the only detection method would be hearing.
I was wondering why I never heard of this audible distance, and it's because it's not in a rulebook, just the first 5e DM's screen. That's interesting.
@@FlutesLoot yeah i think thats why some people dont know about it as they didnt get the 5E dm screen or didnt check out copies/excerpts of it online. imo wotc should've included something as important as that in the phb/dmg.
iirc JC also talked about it in one of the vids/podcasts.
@@TheRobversion1 I appreciate you bringing it up. It's interesting enough that I updated the article to mention it.
POV when The dm Has an entire dungeon based on the players not knowing anything then the character sheets come in that one guy with a pp of 19
That 19 becomes a 14 in the dark and 0 in heavy fog or smoke.
I don't personally like the part about your passive being your floor for the roll. I feel like you should use passive perception or ignore it, not kind of use it at all times. I know this is different than RAW
That is the most controversial point in the video, for sure.
Passive perception is not “always on“ or a “floor“ for any perception roll.
Do you or your DM selectively choose when to use Passive Perception, or do you decide once at session zero? If it's the latter, it's effectively a skill floor. I'm not a fan of the former method as it creates confusion and can undermine trust.
@@FlutesLoot Passive anything is usable by the DM as they see fit. The rules of the game specify several situations that may warrant the DM deciding to use a passive ability check. Using a creature’s passive perception as a floor is a house rule at Jeremy Crawford’s table.
@@johnandrewbellner you're referring to passive checks in general, which is 5e's version of the "taking 20" rule from previous editions. Passive Perception is specifically designed to be part of core D&D 5e. The PHB reads, "The rules on hiding in the 'Dexterity' section . . . rely on passive checks, as do the exploration rules."
And here are the Hiding rules in regards to Passive Perception: "Passive Perception. When you hide, there's a chance someone will notice you even if they aren't searching. To determine whether such a creature notices you, the DM compares your Dexterity (Stealth) check with that creature's passive Wisdom (Perception) score, which equals 10 + the creature's Wisdom modifier, as well as any other bonuses or penalties. If the creature has advantage, add 5. For disadvantage, subtract 5. For example, if a 1st-level character (with a proficiency bonus of +2) has a Wisdom of 15 (a +2 modifier) and proficiency in Perception, he or she has a passive Wisdom (Perception) of 14."
Edit: I could see an argument for Passive Perception to not always be on outside of those core instances, but I don't recommend picking and choosing for DMs maintaining trust and enabling character builds. I appreciate you pushing back on this so I can explain what I mean in the video.
@@johnandrewbellner Correct.
@@FlutesLoot Using the rules you've posted, the ONLY situation in which passive anything is used as a floor is exclusively and solely ONLY when determining if someone is hiding successfully or not. 100% of the rest of the time in the rest of the game, passive anything is either used or not used at the DM discretion. This is in the game to prevent stealth as being too strong. Passive perception is not an automatic thing in any other situation outside hiding unless the DM explicitly deems it so on a case by case basis.
On a side note, this is a strength not understood by the vast majority of people early on till today regarding the PHB beast master. At level level 3, many beast companions have passive perception scores as high as 20. "You can't hide from my wolf!"
Sooo what's the point of darkvision if it doesn't do anything?
Darkvision allows you to see in the dark as dim light instead of being effectively blind in the dark.
I don’t like the passive perception as a way to avoid surprise. I think if you’re expecting combat there should not be surprise.
Imho
Yes perception is a very big thing in 5e
guards always expect combat but still get surprised so i'm on the side here of the designers that not noticing threats=surprised.
Hi Rivers! Do you use any hard mechanics for surprises, or do you keep it simple and up to the DM?
@@FlutesLoot up to the DM and I’m not sure he used passive perception
I'm not really a fan of the trend towards passive abilities. In dndbeyond character sheets already have passive perception, investigation, and insight now. As DM I allow passive perception because everyone is used to it already, but in session 0 I made sure everyone knows that having a high passive perception doesn't mean you automatically see everything. I mean, I guess we could just make everything passive abilities and don't even need to roll for anything anymore, lol.
I've heard speculation from some people who think one day D&D will be diceless :P
The only passive score I use regularly is Passive Perception, but that's just me.
@@FlutesLoot i find diceless dnd happens more in online play. It kind of prohibits people from "fudging" their dice rolls.
Personally, i'd like to have less dice rolls at the table as it makes things run quicker. The only i still want as a dice roll are atk rolls (due to crit hits) and dmg rolls (as players find this fun). The others i dont mind being passive/diceless.
@@FlutesLoot Yeah, I've been worried about it myself. Seems obvious that they're trying to go that way. Rolling dice is fun. I think it's part of what gives a player the feeling that they're actually doing something. If you ever watched any live stream pay attention to the excitement from players rolling the dice, lol.
One thing I don't agree with: when something has a stat block that clearly lists their passive perception, and it says something like "Keen Sight" you wouldn't actually add that. It would already be factored in. Otherwise, why have it listed? And not have it as like "Base Passive Perception." OF COURSE it's going to use it's eyes.
Either that, or it's poor design.
If you do the math of the statblocks, they're not factoring in the advantage already.
@@FlutesLoot you're right here. this is what i got as well. i think the reason they didn't add it in because there would be times it wouldnt be applicable. like keen sight would only apply if theres a chance to see the creature. if you're relying on hearing or smell like if a creature is invisible then it doesn't apply.
@@TheRobversion1 I agree that's probably why. They probably should create a standard 13(18) way to annotate varying Passive Perceptions in monster statblocks.