Hijab Case: Karnataka HC Misunderstood SC's 1954 Judgment, Didn't Correctly Apply Essentiality Test
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 16 ก.ย. 2024
- One of India’s most highly regarded Supreme Court lawyers and a former President of the Supreme Court Bar Association has said that in applying the so-called essentiality test to the question is the hijab an integral part of Islam, the Karnataka High Court has misunderstood the Supreme Court’s 1954 Shirur Mutt judgement (which established the test) and, therefore, wrongly applied this test. Dushyant Dave says that the 1954 judgement also contains a definition of religion which is so wide and all-embracing that it includes different types of food and dress which believers consider essential to their faith. He says that broad definition would clearly mean that if muslim girls consider the hijab as integral to their faith then it is. The hijab is clearly covered by the 1954 judgement’s definition of religion.
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It is great to hear Mr. Dave,s honesty in expressing legal clarity with regard to Hijab Issue.
My heartfelt appreciation to you both Mr. Thapar for raising the issue and Mr.Dave for explaining / clarifying the matters in a simple way that lay man would realise how efforts are made to polities/Divide the society and communities.
God Bless you Mr. Dave & Mr. Thapar.
Judges r not entitled to judge a religious matter. It should be referred to reputed religious bodies. It is a religious practice in the matter of hijab also. Muslim parties should engage lawyers like Mr. Dave.
Hizab fails essentiality test. Why?
1. If not worn, muslim woman does not become non muslim. She is still a muslim.
2. It has no islamic ritual associated with it.
3. It has not been made mandatory in Islam.
4. If not worn, there is no hindrance in worship of god.
5. If not worn, one can even study.
6. Quran has not given Hizab as identity to muslim woman.
Why there is all this fuss to justify its essentiality?
Actually Sexual slavery in Islam has given birth to this attire. They are ashamed of talking this.They wanted to carry forward this filthy tradition by giving illogical reasons.
@@noelsushilismile7206 if they are not wearing they are committing a sin. And they are disobeying Quran order
@@noelsushilismile7206 Similarly idol worship isn't essential practice or prescribed in Vedas but still majority kills and riots over it
What a great academic discussion between Thaper Sir and Dubey Sir.!!! The so-called biased and purchased judges have paralysed the sense of justice and fundamental rights in India.
Hat's off sirs. Excellent interview. Let the Karnataka High Court revise the judgment passed.
Alhamdulillah- he - rabbul alamin don't loss hop . Allah Test Thom whom he love the most
Now sc will ban all india
I am Hindu but i feel more Muslim and Christian judge should be there in our justice system..... I am against the High court decision here... Muslim or Hindu he should be have his freedom to wear and eat wat ever he wants.
You did not consider the consequence of allowing hijab. Hindu right wings will get students to wear tilaks and dhotis saying it is essential to their faith. It will only lead to chaos. Remember, this restriction is only inside educational institutions where a uniform is followed and under class 10. So I support this judgement.
@@double_courage57
Hindu right wings getting students to wear saffron shawls is mischief, girls wearing hijab is genuine
Indian citizen journalist gauri lankesh was murdered but bangladesh author tasleema nasreen is given full protection in India
Indian painter M F Hussain was attacked & vandalised but iranian writer Salman Rushdie is always given a red carpet welcome
Standard mischief by the sangh pariwar !!!!
Good to hear an intellectual indepth interview with advocate Dushyant Dave... I hope the Karnataka judges come accross this interview... Because it's very straight forward... Thank you Mr Karan Thapar for doing your JOB as a senior journalist...
Comment box close???????
👍🏻
Most of the judges are under severe pressure from present regime.
@@Sniptool could I say same thing during congress rule.,reverse may also be true..!!
Hijab is not part of Islam Period.
Thank you for doing this Karan Thapar Saab. The Muslims of the nation owe you. For standing by us, and voicing something they could never voice. God bless.
they have done more harm than you think they have done good
@@ritesharora6032 Wire is Anti Hindu
@@kashresurrected don't watch . They are the ones that are actually stopping from india to become a zombie state
Comment box close??????
The interview with Mr Dave enlightens us that HC Karnataka's order in the Hijab case was in contravention of Apex Court's judgement in Shirur math case.
It is great to Mr. Dave for his honesty and, ability superior clarity
An authority by itself, a gem of Bar in our country.
You mean first complicate it,then clarify it? If the judges had any sense they would have thrown the case out of the court on sight as unnecessary meddling in one's private choice of garb.
Hizab fails essentiality test. Why?
1. If not worn, muslim woman does not become non muslim. She is still a muslim.
2. It has no islamic ritual associated with it.
3. It has not been made mandatory in Islam.
4. If not worn, there is no hindrance in worship of god.
5. If not worn, one can even study.
6. Quran has not given Hizab as identity to muslim woman.
Why there is all this fuss to justify its essentiality?
Actually Sexual slavery in Islam has given birth to this attire. They are ashamed of talking this.They wanted to carry forward this filthy tradition by giving illogical reasons.
@@noelsushilismile7206all the points are wrong first study Islam and then comment.
@@saleemshaikh5705 Justify point wise.
I just have one question. Why are Hindus going around telling Muslim girls what they should wear? Should this not be discussed by muslims themselves. We won't like it if anyone tells us what to do. Why is it okay for us to do it? This is ridiculous.
ईस्लाम मे लडाईमे capture कि गयी गुलाम औरतो को sexual pleasure के लिये खरीदा जाता (जिसे islamic sexual slavery, रंडीबाजी, लौंडीबाजी कहते है जो ईस्लाम के मुताबीक जायज है) . एक आदमी कितनी भी sexual slaves sexual pleasure के लिये घर मे रख सकता था. खरीदी हुई होने के वजह से ऐसी औरते किसी कि property बन जाती थी. ऐसी society होने के वजहसे लोग ऐक दुसरे कि property का स्वाद चखने के लिये तैयार रहते थे. ईसलिये ईस्लाम मे औरते खतरे मे आ गयी और safety के लिये ईस moveable property को ढँका जाने लगा. Sexual slaves family का हिस्सा होने कि वजहसे घर कि बीवियाँ और बच्चीयाँ भी पराये लोगो द्वारा sexual abuse के खतरे मे आ गयी. तो ऊन्हे भी ढंका जाने लगा. और ईस तरह से islamic society मे हिजाब आ गया. अगर ऊस जमानेमे ईस्लामिक सोसायटी औरतोके लिये safe होती तो ईन्हे ऊपर से निचे तक ढकने कि जरूरत नही पडती. अब ये लोग ईस शर्मनाक सच्चाई से बचने के लिये दुनीयाभर के बिना सिर पैर के लाॅजिक देते रहते है...
@@noelsushilismile7206 Again idiot Spotted.
I love how much Karan reads before he interviews someone. "Freedom of religion is important not because religion is important but freedom is important'.
"Subjected to "public order" and if freedom doesn't disrespect the secularism enshrined in Indian constitution. Judiciary is a constitutional body."
Hizab fails essentiality test. Why?
1. If not worn, muslim woman does not become non muslim. She is still a muslim.
2. It has no islamic ritual associated with it.
3. It has not been made mandatory in Islam.
4. If not worn, there is no hindrance in worship of god.
5. If not worn, one can even study.
6. Quran has not given Hizab as identity to muslim woman.
Why there is all this fuss to justify its essentiality?
Actually Sexual slavery in Islam has given birth to this attire. They are ashamed of talking this.They wanted to carry forward this filthy tradition by giving illogical reasons.
@@noelsushilismile7206 Mahabharata 13.79 ”That man who habitually makes gifts of kine comes to be regarded as the foremost of his species. When thus proceeding to Heaven, he is received by a thousand celestial damsels of beautiful hips and adorned with handsome robes and ornaments. These girls wait upon him there and minister to his delight. He sleeps there in peace and is awakened by the musical laughter of those gazelle-eyed damsels, the sweet notes of their Vinas, the soft strains of their Vallakis, and the melodious tinkle of their Nupuras. ” Tr. K.M. Ganguli
@@unison2679 Gangulis version of Mahabharat
@@noelsushilismile7206 Muslims know Islam better than others. Punishment will be there in hereafter.
For Muslims world is temporary and life after death and judgement day is important.
Mr Dave, Mr. Thapar don't you think, this hypocrisy and bigotry is prevailing in Karnataka because the dregs of BJP are ruling the state. When are we going to address the elephant in the room.
I agree. The bigotry of forcing women to wear a garb on their head 😂🤣
@Football-Pundit I’m sure you are in favour of that too since you want women to be ‘modest’ by wearing hijab. Patriarchy enabler.
@@DS-hk7kx Well, its other way round, Authorities forcing them not to cover their head.
@@noelsushilismile7206 Noel, jitne kaand tumhari Church ke paadriyon ne kiye hain na maasoom bachchon ke saat woh anginnath hain. Aur saari ghulaami ka vyapaar is duniya mein agar kisi ne shuru kiya aur ghair khanooni dhan kamaayi hai tho woh hain tum eisaaii. Jaani jinke ghar sheeshe ke hotey hain, woh doosron pe pathar nahi phenka karthe BSDK.
@@mindscape566 He is a mad Evangelist.
“Democracy in india is like throwing pearls before pigs”….seems we are proving it right …..
Another classy interview. Great people, great effort and exactly what India needs!
Thank u Mr. THAPAR, this interview gave a big support to Muslim girls who want to go with hijab to the educational institutions.
Let's assume that SC strikes down the judgement and allows the girls to wear hijab. But the damage is already done. Will the girls be able to sit in the class comfortably? Will they not be harassed and abused by those who did so, outside the class? These were not outsiders. They were their own classmates.
Yes, but at least the girls will be able to wear the hijab. The Sanghi classmates anyways won't be around after the academic year. Who wants to be friends with such narrow minded people ?
Sc will again upheld the hc judgement lmao cry me a river😂
So you mean to say that students of other faith not wearing the hijab are being harassed 😂
It is a very encouraging debate that matches in quality of contentes, the conducting of the interview with the debates I hear on the American TV's many platforms handling important issues in front of the US Supreme Courts. Mr. Thaper is an outstanding journalist and his platform makes Indian journalism, a world class example of democracy in practice. Advocate Dave has cleared an important constitutional question related to the fundamental rights. I am a fan of 'Wire'.
SHAME, shame Karnataka HC. Actually the aggrieved party should sue the Karnataka HC.
For giving the right judgement? 😂🤣
@@DS-hk7kx - It is Fundamentally a flawed judgement. You seem to be more knowledeble than SC lawyer and SC judges. Huhhhhhh
@@ranjitsumati27 SC judges? This is High Court
@@ranjitsumati27 And why do you want to be a patriarchy enabler 😂
@@DS-hk7kx What I want to be what is NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS.
Thank you Karan Sir for bringing Mr.Dave on board to clear clarify important questions. I always look forward to your interviews on important topics.
@Braju B Dear Braju! I am certain that you don't know what IQ means and how it is calculated. Am I right? :* So it's better to not use such words when not aware of it, just to make your argument look strong.
Who said hijab cant be worn.. You have not seen the judgement which said, inside the class room. Not denied elsewhere. This video is relevant if hijab is banned completely.😊😄
Bindus, pratisara or kautuka and all other religious symbols on goverment places is not violation?. All the ceremonies take place by officials in goverment properties all need to be ban?
The wire is pro muslim and pro woke media. You can't expect logic from it and its viewers.
Why knowledgeable and honest people are not appointed as judges in the courts?
Ur such knowledgeble so u become judje and gv in to fundamentalists and radicals.
@@hiteshgoswami2860 Aaaah the cowswamy community
Most of the judges in the court today were appointed when Congress was in power.
@@subhasisghosh66 dogs stay loyal to the next master also in case the previous master died and then they can be trained to help the theif also ....
@@raffatshaikh6335 you mean that 1400 year old desert cult 🤣 or pedophile muhmuudian 🤣
I'm surprised to see and hear that in Hindu community there are people who have such balanced point of view, salute to such people.
@@abhishekchadha5708 God Is One for All of Us & We All Are One Among Us ☝🏻
@Fatima Nishat then y where owasi n mullahs crying when is was removed
U Thought this is PAKISTAN OR MIDDLE EAST??
@Fatima Nishat what's your take on 1ST COUSIN MARRIAGE???
Also PRACTICE OF HALALA
@@offencebestdefence500 I was surprised because I had not observed it. What I had observed was, an anchor shouting interrupting and insulting Muslims partcipents and forcing them to say what he or she likes according to hindutwa thinking.
That means case is very clear to supreme court, it will strike down the Karnataka courts foolish judgement.
ईस्लाम मे लडाईमे capture कि गयी गुलाम औरतो को sexual pleasure के लिये खरीदा जाता (जिसे islamic sexual slavery, रंडीबाजी, लौंडीबाजी कहते है जो ईस्लाम के मुताबीक जायज है) . एक आदमी कितनी भी sexual slaves sexual pleasure के लिये घर मे रख सकता था. खरीदी हुई होने के वजह से ऐसी औरते किसी कि property बन जाती थी. ऐसी society होने के वजहसे लोग ऐक दुसरे कि property का स्वाद चखने के लिये तैयार रहते थे. ईसलिये ईस्लाम मे औरते खतरे मे आ गयी और safety के लिये ईस moveable property को ढँका जाने लगा. Sexual slaves family का हिस्सा होने कि वजहसे घर कि बीवियाँ और बच्चीयाँ भी पराये लोगो द्वारा sexual abuse के खतरे मे आ गयी. तो ऊन्हे भी ढंका जाने लगा. और ईस तरह से islamic society मे हिजाब आ गया. अगर ऊस जमानेमे ईस्लामिक सोसायटी औरतोके लिये safe होती तो ईन्हे ऊपर से निचे तक ढकने कि जरूरत नही पडती. अब ये लोग ईस शर्मनाक सच्चाई से बचने के लिये दुनीयाभर के बिना सिर पैर के लाॅजिक देते रहते है...
I don't know about it ,is it really in slam.
Then we should come together, and remove all evils from each religion like raja ram mohn roy ji did when he threw away sati. To save women from oppression.
This discussion was based purely on the Indian constitution & fundamental rights -
Therefore this discussion is not one, but slaps on both cheeks of all those who were & are up against the wearing of hijab
From the moment the issue entered the Karnataka High court, we could make out from the daily newspaper reports the interest the state executive had on the outcome & the influence it wanted to have on its judiciary - the executive was behaving like the judiciary & the judiciary was behaving like an office boy on errands
Hence the bungled outcome
Hats off to Shri Karan Thapar & Shri Dushyant Dave for their guts & their courage
Jai hind, jai bharath
Being a practicing lawyer in the High Court myself, I can undoubtedly vouch for this interview being the one, that has passed the test of essentiality of being termed as an impeccable, inclusive, intriguing as well as an invigorating one, while providing an in-depth overview of the precepts of law.
Wrong Information by Mr.Dave. Petitioners failed to pass 3 Tests and 5 Principles given by the Advocate General of the Karnataka State to prove Hijab is ERP.
Mr.Dave is stuck in 1954. Karnataka Advocate General has used 4 Court Judgements to prove - In the Shirur Mutt judgment, the word used was "Essentially Religious" and when it came to Sabarimala it became "Essential to Religion". He Walked though the complete Transformation of the View.
Rights of Educational Institute are higher than Rights of Students - whose parents have signed Admission form to abide by Rules & Regulations including Uniform Dress Code.
@@internetsensation1594 Sanghi misinterpretation. At this rate your Bhagwa Yogi should be banned while entering the secular institutions . Your judges obscured the right to practise of the rituals enshrined in article 25 of the constitution . Any religious practise as to Dress and food are to be considered as essential enacted by the constitutional bench of the Supreme Court . You people are hell bent on depriving the people of the liberty of essential religious practice . These three judges have miserably failed in audaciously deciding what is essential to the religious practise by hairsplitting exercise of looking into the translation of the scripture . First they have made up their mind not to antagonise the political fiefdom by delivering a judgement suitable to the oppressors . This is travesty of justice if not mockery of justice
@@smithasumi9372 spend some time with good books and teachers before harping on to an important and complex topic like this one.
@@letgo1065 o physician heal thyself . A badly educated Sanghi is preaching others ! You being a prisoner of bigotry you can’t fathom any text except the binary Hindu Muslim . Nonetheless . Indoctrinated by 1925 gangsters of Sangh you can’t but remain self destructively deluded assuming you are omniscient like your imaginary deities . So people of your ilk have no place in any kind of civilised society .
@@smithasumi9372👍👌
I wore school uniform for 12 years but still i faced discrimination from teachers and classmates for my religion.Even after making top in the class,some teacher's attitude never changed towards me. Thus i conclude, equality comes from mind and liberation of thoughts, and not from uniformity.
Very true
Same happened with me by muslim teachers...!!!
Actions & behaviour of large number of people from your religion has effect on how people look at you. That is the price youngsters pay for the misdeeds of their community. Communities have to understand this. Trust & acceptability of an individual is the direct consequence of the actions & behaviour of larger group he belongs to.
Why do you blame your teachers for hating Islam when Islam itself hates all other religions unilaterally. Tell me how many of the 60 odd Muslim countries are secular?
@@Amitparashar14 yes, thats what i am talking. Unity and equality come with liberation of thoughts.
An Insightful, objective and fair discussion.
Thank you Mr. Karan and Dushyant ji for the detailed analysis of high court judgement. The girls are not asking for something special for them. They are asking permission to do what they are doing since years.
But it's very sad to accept that the judges does not want the girls to study and become successful.
This is indirectly pushing them to the darkness.we still believe in "Satyamev Jayate."👍🏻
They are in darkness when they are in a Hijab. They should thank the High court for giving them freedom from this mind stilting practise.
@@HarmanHundal01 Only education can enlighten anyone, not what one wears.
Once they get educated they’ll decide what is good for them as many are first generation girls who are getting educated
We Indians have only realised few decades ago due to education that enlightened us that burning our mothers alive (Sati) is utterly wrong and inhumane
@@umairsyed7465 I agree. That is why Hijab should be banned, not only in schools but everywhere, until women attain both adulthood and education. If they are wearing it before then, then they are just wearing it under social influence and brainwashing.
@@HarmanHundal01 in Bhagavad Gita, texts had been used to establish the
authority of Brahmans over lower castes and the
domination of men over women. To kya bolte ho ban krwaden? Apko to modern banna hai naa
@@mariefredgerald7161 👍
Truly Informative Debate. Excellent Journalism. This Debate proves Judges of Karnataka High Court has given wrong decision on Hijab Row
I want to thank bothe of u ( Mr. Karan thapar and Mr. Dave ) from my heart. U have educated me in so many different ways. People will loose faith in justice system in India. What a educational debate. God bless you and give good health and happiness to u and ur familys. Ameen
@@noelsushilismile7206
Your religion has the devdasi system, generations & generations of spinsters would serve the men sexually & you are reminding us of Islamic sexual slavery
The pot calling the kettle black !!!!
I don’t know what is contempt of Court.. but my conscience is fully convinced that our judiciary is not competent the way it was few years back…
what a high intellectual interview, absolutely outstanding. I wish GOD bless both of yours wisdom and to all of us.
Kali billi aur kale kapde wali se dur rehna chahiye. Sale bade abshagun hai dono.
@@rocky5006 Kali billi se vehmi log darte hain or kale kapde se darne wale bhi vehmi hi hote. veham ko door karne ka ilaj hakeem luqman ji ke pass nahi tha. apshagun naam ke iss shak ke keedey ne, na jaaney kitni susraloon mei masoom dulhano ka jeena haram kar diya..umeed karta hun ap unn jaheelo ki tarha na hon.
Hizab fails essentiality test. Why?
1. If not worn, muslim woman does not become non muslim. She is still a muslim.
2. It has no islamic ritual associated with it.
3. It has not been made mandatory in Islam.
4. If not worn, there is no hindrance in worship of god.
5. If not worn, one can even study.
6. Quran has not given Hizab as identity to muslim woman.
Why there is all this fuss to justify its essentiality?
Actually Sexual slavery in Islam has given birth to this attire. They are ashamed of talking this.They wanted to carry forward this filthy tradition by giving illogical reasons.
@@noelsushilismile7206 Oh Drunkard how many times same comment?
@@unison2679 To educate yourself.
Very genuine analysis of Karnataka High Court decision.
I wish they criticize supreme courts decision to let go of a corruption master mind P Chidambaram.
@@rocky5006 okay. I wish they criticise clean chits and fake encounters as well. Keep wishing.
@@shafinshaf2434 nahi karenge criticize. Pehle kashmiri pandits ka badla. Fir dekhenge.
@@rocky5006 Thousands Of Vergins For The Martyrs In Vedic Paradise
For people in heaven, Ishwar has arranged hundreds and thousands of Apsaras or ‘Harlot’ as per the term used by Hindus on this issue.
Parashara Smriti 3.28-29 Celestial damsels seize for themselves, and take delight with the hero, whose body is wounded or cut by arrows, clubs, or maces. Thousands of Celestial DAMSELS, rush forward in a hurry towards a hero killed in battle, each proclaiming, ‘He is my lord, he is mine’.
NOW BE READY TO TRAVEL TO YOUR SWARGA
@@unison2679 mai veergati ko prapt hunga tu hoorgati ko.
Very good discussion on Karnataka High Court judgement on Hijab. Senior High Court Judge Mr. Dave explained the truth and he proved that the Judgement was wrong which went against Muslim woman’s and school and college girls in particular. Hope the Supreme Court will take note of all this points and reference cited by highly learned & Senior Advocate Mr. Dave.
Dave is a senior supreme court judge
I thank Mr. Karan and Advocate Dushyant for enlightening the 1954 judgement and defining artie 14, 19, 21 and 25 and Mr. Sardar patel sahab and Dr. Ambedkar sahab for protecting rights of minorities by majority in India.
Thank you very much sirs
Thus is what made us believe in our constitution.
What they said " On Favour of Hijab or Un favour of Hijab ? ".
@@C.a.skquadri9786 ofcourse in favour of hijab petitioners and previous judgements of Supreme Court which are in favor of petitioners on the essential religious practices
@@alism1328
Ok Subhanallah ,💕
And what about girls not wanting to expose their hair to men and feeling immodest doing so. How can any authority ask women to expose themselves against their will.
It is not immodest. The control of what is “modest” and what is not, is used to control women. It is simply choice. If someone wants to cover their hair for whatever reason, be it religion or because they didn’t comb their hair, they should have the freedom to do so
@@globalcitizenn Agree. But that freedom of choice cannot override constitutional rights of any institution let alone educational. Freedom argument cannot be applied everywhere blindly.
@@noelsushilismile7206 You must be an Evangelist.
th-cam.com/video/mHmAwHDNd4w/w-d-xo.html...
What is your opinion on this video.
@@noelsushilismile7206 th-cam.com/video/z22SYzlNCK8/w-d-xo.html...
Listen to this learned Scholar you will be Enlightened and saved from Narak/Hell Fire 🔥
8f you are a human being just reply back.
A valid question nobody is understanding,and its basic of women's rights
Law and government shouldn't intefer in anyone's religious practice , That's called freedom of religious practice and expression as simple as it's .
Law and govt have every right to interfere in anyone’s religious practice lol you dont know anything about Indian constitution
This man should be in ICJ .
Yes bro you are right
And the constitution should be replaced with sharia law ..
And hafeez saeed should be declared PM
Hindu should be RALLIV GALLIV CHALLIV
What a glorious moment
First the Supreme Court must decide whether Ram really existed or it is only a Hero character of the book called Ramayana , written by a dacoit Valmiki. A non existent deity has been made a person by the Supreme Court in Ayodhya case. But Hijab is non essential because some ignorant judges of Karnataka High Court wanted to please their political bosses.These totally ignorant judges must hang their heads in shame and apologise to the Muslim community. Dushyant Dave has tried to say that judges did not read the Constitution. What an intelligent statement made by gem of an advocate.
Thanku you the wire and Karen thapa for this enlightenment...
Shame on Karnnatka High court .# No justice for Muslims in courts
Why Karan khapar didn't asked a simple question to the penalist,
Can a Jain student can attend to class without cloth saying it's his religion practice????😂😂😂
@shuvo,
Only Jain muni don't wear clothes even today & they are in public places as they are running few educational institutions. Not a matter to be laughed at 🙏
So also sikhs with turbans
Thank you Mr.Karan & Dave for this interview & highlighting the articles to practice religious beliefs ... It's a shame on the judges who takes the advantage of the power given to them & gave the verdict against our beautifully written constitution. These kind of judges bring disharmony in the secular society. Indian system is beautiful, Corrupt goons running the system needs to be thrown out.
Guys, please don’t make this kind of foolish argument in Supreme court. Several points you contradicted yourself.
Aha here comes new scholar
Thank you sir for having this interview
In islam we have to pray five times a day and it's essential for every muslim but majority of muslim are not doing pray five time a day So it doesn't mean majority of muslim not doing five times pray then it's not a part of Islam
So d
1. There is no doubt that Sickulars in India are deeply disturbed since 2014 and particularly after passing of abolition of Triple Talaq and the Ram Temple judgment in 2019. Recent judgement of Karnataka High Court has made it further disheartening for them. Of course, there were some bright spots for them during anti CAA and anti farm laws agitation where SC was doing much to their liking. But it is again time for distress!
2. The petitioners have now approached the SC and we will know what happens there.
3. In any case, Constitutional, legal or common sense was always clear- Educational institutions have right to prescribe uniform and other "reasonable" rules for admission. Those who seek admission have right not to seek admission if they do not agree with the rules. From this point of view, some dress code is prescribed, no one can go against it. If you approach the Court on the ground of your religion, it is up to the Court to examine if it is essential practice of the religion or not. If HC has now come to a particular conclusion, those who don not agree with it, can now to go SC. Which is what petitioners have now done. We should now wait for SC to deliver its judgment.
4. Beyond this, Karans and Dushyants of this Sickular gang can talk anything (because the judgment is not to their liking!!) and will have no bearing on the HC or SC judgment. As of now, thankfully, Dushyant is not calling judges a Team B or C of BJP or Modi.
Wishful thinking of Sanghis.
@Surendra, just relax may be too tired of writing such a long and Use LESS Comment.
Listen to this learned Hindu Scholar you will be Enlightened and saved from Narak.
th-cam.com/video/H5nsBNy2_6c/w-d-xo.html....
Why is everyone drawing conclusions from the rig election by BJP using EVM. Have free n fair election then draw your conclusions.
If this was rigged election, then what is your explanation for Punjab results? Or recent WB results? Don't make yourself a joker in public.
Hijab is part of our religion why not judge ask any muslim lawyer to translate sura of Holy Quran where it mentioned about Hijab nd parda for ladies
Again. Fuck what the Quran says. Muslim women need to be freed from this mind numbing practice.
Hijab is not mandatory even in all the muslim nations in the world except Iran and Afghanistan.
How many Muslim countries did you live in??
Both intellectuals forgot why they went to court! Matter was about uniforms in education institutions! This is how scholarship over looked essential point !
Who designed uniforms to not fit headscarfs?.
Excellent discussion smithereens the Karnataka High Court Hijab judgment
Everyone knows where India is leading towards intellect people like you can explain but only intelligent people can understand
💯
Yeah. That’s why Indians want these oppressive practices to be thrown in the garbage
Hijab belongs in the garbage
watch where Muslims are heading!! We grew up in a secular school in 90s where all religious symbols were to be left outside school gate... we as Hindus were never allowed to wear lockets, pendants, rings ! Sikhs were not allowed to wear their kada... Christians were not allowed to wear crosses and Muslims never wore hijab or taut... why all of a sudden hijaab has become essential in a school for you ? Keep religion out from school
Oh! Look these people proved me right now rather than understanding what these two mens talking about they are throwing their tantrums on my comment good
Outstanding. Well explained a layman can understand. How come judges of karnataka gave such a decision where minorities are deprived of their right to gain education. Exams are coming let they allowed to write exams with hijab.
I salute to you intellectuals .God bless you
From time immemorial, we grew up at school with our pagadi wearing punjabi sardar classmates, never had any issue
We grew up at college with pagadi wearing punjabi sardar classmate youth, we never had issues
In jobs, we worked with our pagadi wearing punjabi sardar adults & we never had problems
Our police force includes pagadi wearing punjabi sardars & there is no problem at all
Our armed forces - army, navy, airforce includes pagadi wearing punjabi sardars & the world respects & fears our armed forces, so no issues there too
The real issue & the big problem is since the loksabha elections of 2014
Problems started from here - this is the real problem
The problem is not Hijab or no Hijab but the mentality of RSS people to go against Muslims by all means whether it is genuine or not. Question is why boys arrived and chased girl wearing Hijab? Is it not against the Law to chase a girl and harass her?
Boka choda go to Pakistan which your forefathers created from India.
@@Vimrati What right do you have to ask him to go to Pakistan? This country is as much his as it is yours. We are all equal citizens. You don't have any more rights than him.
@@arunshankars8398 Saheb, do not understand what do you want to say? Where is question of Pakistan?
Are the judges deciding what muslims should wear in mosques.??or in schools .?
Why are you comparing Sabarimalai temple dress with school dress, unless you are a thorough crook. This us what is dangerous.
You want muslims to get benefit of their Quran, their practices and Hindu practices, Are you nuts? Dave is a lawyer by profession. His profession calls for contradicting himself in different cases.
Hats off Thapar and thanks a lot to Mr.Dave
The Wire is a masterpiece of brilliance .
As a believer I can say that hijab is essential in Islam. It also easily passes the essentiality test as discussed here.
So women who dont wear Hijab can never be muslims?
@@vajrapaniom7410 see the thing is that hijab is important, but nobody is forced to. Difference between your and mine religion. It is a freedom of choice. Let's not forget the very basic of our constitution
@@mariefredgerald7161 but essential means those who dont follow it are not true practitioners. No two ways about it...you cannot be a true Sikh if you shave your beard and hair even though it's your freedom to do so. You cannot be a true Muslim if you don't believe Muhammad to be the last prophet. You cannot be a follower of the church of the spaghetti monster, if you dont believe in the grace of its tentacles. These are essential to that religion. If you are not required to, then it cannot be essential.
@@vajrapaniom7410 let me ask u a question ...is going to hindu temples essential part of Hinduism...do u consider people who don't go to temples, hindus? Is a 'tilak' essential to Hinduism, would u consider one a lesser Hindu without a tika, is a Christian a lesser Christian if he doesn't wear a cross, or a Sikh a lesser Sikh if he doesn't wear a turban....?
@@sudeepmenon17 last one is correct. Because its essential to Sikhism.
Judge give only judgement but not Justice
Even Gandhi ji wore half dhoti & half covered chadar when he visited England palace / supreme court... because he had a faith that he represents a poor country.
The judges of the concern verdict should watch this interview and resign from the office to uphold the dignity of Indian judiciary.
Hizab fails essentiality test. Why?
1. If not worn, muslim woman does not become non muslim. She is still a muslim.
2. It has no islamic ritual associated with it.
3. It has not been made mandatory in Islam.
4. If not worn, there is no hindrance in worship of god.
5. If not worn, one can even study.
6. Quran has not given Hizab as identity to muslim woman.
Why there is all this fuss to justify its essentiality?
Actually Sexual slavery in Islam has given birth to this attire. They are ashamed of talking this.They wanted to carry forward this filthy tradition by giving illogical reasons.
Majority of Indian judiciary is impotent.
Very much eye opener on a matter I could hardly understood and I was in a fix whether to support it or oppose it... Now it is more crystal clear... Thank you sir for such great intellectual discussions... 🙏🙏
ईस्लाम मे लडाईमे capture कि गयी गुलाम औरतो को sexual pleasure के लिये खरीदा जाता (जिसे islamic sexual slavery, रंडीबाजी, लौंडीबाजी कहते है जो ईस्लाम के मुताबीक जायज है) . एक आदमी कितनी भी sexual slaves sexual pleasure के लिये घर मे रख सकता था. खरीदी हुई होने के वजह से ऐसी औरते किसी कि property बन जाती थी. ऐसी society होने के वजहसे लोग ऐक दुसरे कि property का स्वाद चखने के लिये तैयार रहते थे. ईसलिये ईस्लाम मे औरते खतरे मे आ गयी और safety के लिये ईस moveable property को ढँका जाने लगा. Sexual slaves family का हिस्सा होने कि वजहसे घर कि बीवियाँ और बच्चीयाँ भी पराये लोगो द्वारा sexual abuse के खतरे मे आ गयी. तो ऊन्हे भी ढंका जाने लगा. और ईस तरह से islamic society मे हिजाब आ गया. अगर ऊस जमानेमे ईस्लामिक सोसायटी औरतोके लिये safe होती तो ईन्हे ऊपर से निचे तक ढकने कि जरूरत नही पडती. अब ये लोग ईस शर्मनाक सच्चाई से बचने के लिये दुनीयाभर के बिना सिर पैर के लाॅजिक देते रहते है...
@@noelsushilismile7206
Non sense...
Ur head is filled with all negativity no use in correcting u.
U continue with what u hv in ur head..shame on u.
Hizab fails essentiality test. Why?
1. If not worn, muslim woman does not become non muslim. She is still a muslim.
2. It has no islamic ritual associated with it.
3. It has not been made mandatory in Islam.
4. If not worn, there is no hindrance in worship of god.
5. If not worn, one can even study.
6. Quran has not given Hizab as identity to muslim woman.
Why there is all this fuss to justify its essentiality?
Actually Sexual slavery in Islam has given birth to this attire. They are ashamed of talking this.They wanted to carry forward this filthy tradition by giving illogical reasons.
@@noelsushilismile7206 I think u r wrongly depicting it... The judgement mentions about broader view of essentiality test... And everything we do in our daily lives is part of our religious belief.. So if a girl wants to wear Hizab when going out, you can't force her not to by banning it in public ... It's her fundamental right too...
The doctrine of essentiality as u r trying to fit in here makes no sense...
@@specialup5712 Nobody object to wear hizab in public life but you can not wear it in school and public institution even citing freedom of choice. If tommorow a group of people demands to walk between the roads as freedom of choice and give reason that it is essential practice of their faith. What govt should do? Everybody have to follow rules of the road and not their choice.
A superb and highly intellectual discussion. Highly appreciative of great karan thappar and well versed dushant ji.
Complete waste of 30 minutes as they kept on arguinng essential religious practice rather than what can be done in such manner where the rights of a group is in conflict with the right of a secular institutions or for that matter right of public place to enforce secular rules and regulations.
Very good and knowledgiable debate
Excellent discuss fare and open discuss about citizens fundamental rights, right to practice their religion, it is necessary to keep such discuss to make our citizens aware of their rights. Politicians should avoid provoking groups for their political benefits.
Jai Jawan Jai Kisan Jai Hind
Hon'ble karnataka high court's judgement is a contempt of hon'ble supreme court.
thanks for view of DR AMBEDKAR and SARDAR PATEL .....
please bring JUSTICE NARIMAN for his views in religious issues......
jai hind!
according to me any type of religious things should be kept outside of educational institutions such as hijab or bhagwa clothes
Bindus, pratisara or kautuka
26:40 young hindu girls can wear tika, bindi, tilak, sindoor, mangal sutra etc and no one objects. Sikh boys wear pagdi. Fundamental right to non-discrimination.
This is false equivalence. Tikka, Bindi, Pagdi don’t prevent normal communication the way hijabs do. Muslim women need to be freed from this shitty practice. Yet ones like you are too brainwashed to understand this.
bcoz all these propagate spirituality and art, while hijab propagates terrorism. and thing that propagates terrorism should be banned, countries which started wearing hijab are today shit countries. LOL
@@rishabh719 awww keep dreaming. May God bless you with a brain 🧠 jo ki galat aur sahi dekh sake lmaooo
I mean Sikhs were used to remove turban in airports & American army.. they also had to fight for it.
@@HarmanHundal01 mutrawashed and gobar constipated one didn't read the news of hijabi muslim woman of ktaka won 16 gold medals in engineering. without mutra or gobar.
The discussion misses a fundamental point that the ban/restriction on wearing hijab is only in schools and not in the entire country. I was looking forward to hear the views of Mr.Dave on this issue from a legal standpoint, however, he seems to have missed the context in which the judgement was passed.
If there is pressure on judges from politicians ,how can a judge give balanced verdict.
Good discussion Karan Thapar Saheb
Excellent Sir. Thank you so much.
Instead of relying on Holy Khoraan and Shariah and Hadith and what it says the judges acted like fools to please the ruling class
So courts should run on Sharia???
Gotcha!!!
@@offencebestdefence500
Well if these radical elements desire Sharia then all punishments to Musliims for offences Must be in accordance with Sharia.
If a Muslim commits offence of Theft then their hands be chopped and if they commit adultery, premarital sex, rape and murder they should be stoned to death or beheaded.
For this derogatory comments against the Judges of Karnatake High Court this commentator Ahmed Should be severely punished interalia for Contempt for which the High Court should Suo Moto take action for it.
Former president of SCBA really Gr8 ly answered and explained easy to understand. Long life to u Sir.
Thank you Sir you have done a great service to our Muslim community through this video Let our great supreme court decide properly the importance of HIJAAB for Muslim women in their judgement
I have no hopes in supreme court judgement infact the judiciary doesn't want to give justice in some cases intentionally.
@@fouziabanu793
😎😎😎
Justice is interpretation of constitution.
Not, Sharia law. What you actually want, is someone like INC to change Verdict as they did in Saira Bano case, unfortunately current government won't do it.
😎😎😎
Supreme court already verdict about BABRI MASJID in favor or Mandir on the base of no legal proofs mentioned
@Tanmay Mehta it is a bullshit argument. Hijab is a non essential Muslim dress code. The school can decide a dress code for all its students as it sees all of them as equals. Change is hard and my sympathies for it. But for much better explanation: th-cam.com/video/4j2_aDY9PME/w-d-xo.html
@Chachu P says who?
Wonderful argument Sir.
Very well explained
Great interview, keeping the spirit of journalism alive in this difficult times. 👏
Finally joined this great channel as a paying subscriber while watching this interview. They have done great reporting over the years, these are the same people who broke the Pegasus scandal. If you want to support real journalism in India which is in great decline, please consider supporting The Wire. It will not even be a small fraction of your monthly expense. As for this hijab case, I had watched an earlier discussion on this channel and pretty much convinced about the outcome of this issue (non-issue) if it goes to SC.
Wise words from advocate dushyant dave. Wish he takes up this case.
Thank God, we as a Country have superbly enlightened and insightfully knowledgeable People like Advocate Dushyant Dave. His presence is a ray of hope, in the currently all enveloping darkness that many see on the horizone, with the current ruling dispensation.
Thank you for yet another wonderful interview with this extremely distinguished "Man of Hope" for many, many Indians.
By the way you should have let him elaborate on quite a few occasions without bothering about your interview time limits..we need to hear him more
I respect these learned men and agree with their views. However, this argument overlooks some important aspects: sometimes we need to reflect on whether religious freedoms and expression are harmful for society. The practice of sati was firmly embedded in Hindu culture, but was banned by the British because it was against their modern views of women’s right to life. Can we argue today that it was wrong to curb this religious practice?
Closer to today, even now female genital mutilation is practiced by some sects in India. It is a gross violation of the girl child’s right, but should we allow this to be practiced legally as it is a centuries old religious ritual?
Orthodox Hindus are looked down upon if they will not eat food prepared by someone from a lower caste, and rightly so. It’s not something that modern society condones, as we try to see all people as born equal.
We need to balance religious freedoms and practices with modern ways of living and ensure that everyone can live harmoniously. That is the true essence of unity in diversity that we are so proud of.
Yes sister we have to fist ban those British culture that harass the self respect of the women and their educational interst
@Madhavi Nice comment 👍🏻
'harmful for the society...', how?
Madam, I'm not a lawyer but I really doubt an innocuous action like wearing a hijab really interferes with right to life and can be considered "harmful" to society. Legally speaking, I think the chances of outcome of this case in the girls favor are extremely high. As for weather muslim girls/women should actually be wearing it always, I am not quite sure because sometimes it may negatively affect their employment prospects.
Harmful to society?!! Did you think before hitting the send button of your comment?
When the discussion of one religion is on going let's not bring topics of some sects where female genital mutation is ongoing just to justify your comments.
Misunderstood or delebrately they choose not to understand it, as they had already decided which side to favor in their bias judgement.
They are talking as if it is banned completely from wearing... what they are talking is completely irrevelant.
even if 50% of media was as professional as you are sir, we would actually be having ache din in our nation, sadly media is on godi and janta is fool and country is going into dark ages of wars and riots.
Thank God, you are the only one who understands it correctly.
2:00 did the judges call expert witnesses e.g. islamic scholars or rely on cherry picked writers on the subject who could not be subjected to cross-exam
Hizab fails essentiality test. Why?
1. If not worn, muslim woman does not become non muslim. She is still a muslim.
2. It has no islamic ritual associated with it.
3. It has not been made mandatory in Islam.
4. If not worn, there is no hindrance in worship of god.
5. If not worn, one can even study.
6. Quran has not given Hizab as identity to muslim woman.
Why there is all this fuss to justify its essentiality?
Actually Sexual slavery in Islam has given birth to this attire. They are ashamed of talking this.They wanted to carry forward this filthy tradition by giving illogical reasons.
Hijab is not a part of essential religious practices ..." says court
my suggestion : how about making a religion similar to Islam were wearing hijab is ' essential '
would that work?
google: how to make your own religion
@@noelsushilismile7206 finally we have found the best islamic scholar.👏👏👏 too bad you cannot appear in court to undergo cross.
@@noelsushilismile7206 can you give me any proof of your "if not this and if not that" questions where did you get this idea that hijab is not important practice of islam
@@zeeshanvlogging1 हिजाबवाली आयात कब नाजील हुयी थी? जब साहाब के बिवी को ऊमरने शौचको जाते हुये टोका था.सहि बात है? ईससे पता चलता है ऊस समय ईस्लामिक society uncivilized थी. अब ये uncivilized क्यों थी? Slavery कि वजह से. जब लडाई दौरान औरते पकडी जाती तब लोग ईन्हे खरीद कर अपने पास sexual pleasure के लिये रखते थे.ऐक आदमी कितनी भी sexual slave रख सकता था. ये ऊसके property का हिस्सा होती थी. तो society मे sexual property unevenly distribute थी. लोग ऐक दुसरे कि property का स्वाद चखने के लिये तैय्यार रहते थे. अब ईस moveable property को कैसे बचाया जा सकता है? एक ही ऊपाय है पुरे कपडेसे ढक दो ताकि अपने property पर दुसरे कि नजर ना पडे. जब ये sexual slaves family का हिस्सा है तो लोगो कि नजर बीवी और बच्चियों पर भी जायेगी. तो ऊन्हे भी ढकना पडेगा.और किस वजहसे ईस्लाम मे हिजाब आ सकता है आप ही बता दो. Society civilized होती तो हिजाब करना जरूरी ही नही होता. तो क्या आज तक ईस्लामीक society 1400 साल पहले जैसी uncivilized है?
मैने आज तक कहीं पढा नहि कि मुस्लीम औरतोने मुस्लीम countries मे बुर्का पहनने के लिये माँग ऊठाई. ये सब non muslim country या democratic country मे ही क्यों होता है?. बहोत सारे मुस्लीम countries है वहाँ बुर्का ऊतारकर फेक दिया
Thank you very much for the great honest interview and I hope and pray that everyone understands this.
What a great interview, pointed questions and authentic answers 👏 👌 😀
It's heartening that majority of Indian s are secular and also appreciate fair judgements. Happy to be an Indian Muslim.
They should allow not only hijab, but also burka.
Also allow to do namaz in middle of class if its the time.
Have Muslims ever demanded to perform namaz in the middle of a class? No, right? Why do you have a problem with Muslim women wearing a hijab? Typical Muslimphobic mentality.
So what?
@Random listen to this learned Hindu Scholar you will be Enlightened and saved from Narak.
th-cam.com/video/H5nsBNy2_6c/w-d-xo.html
This judgment is partial and discriminatory!!!!
What dashing and daring interview took place between the two great intellectuals, the awesome interpretations of certain constitutional articles, because of these personalities beauty of Indian diverse cultures stand united,national integrity and unity in diversity crores of thanks to both Karan Thapar ji and honorable Dushyant Dave ji for conducting a fabulous discuss on burning issue
23:17; ‘Freedoms are important and not because religions are important’ 👌👌👌
How someone talks when they don’t have a scientific mind. Even physics runs on laws, Insaan Kya cheez hai.
@@akshaybhan8381 : freedom also has laws …
This is how BEAUTIFULLY Court Judgement is downplayed by these people.
Karan, you're an asset in Journalistic world
Very meaningful interview. We need to creat broadness in our heart and respect the people of all faith . Then only we can leave in harmony.
Thanks, Karan Thaper Saheb and Dave Sir for this show.
truly showing the light to the misunderstood judges, clarifying to the po eople in general. Hats off to you both.
ईस्लाम मे लडाईमे capture कि गयी गुलाम औरतो को sexual pleasure के लिये खरीदा जाता (जिसे islamic sexual slavery, रंडीबाजी, लौंडीबाजी कहते है जो ईस्लाम के मुताबीक जायज है) . एक आदमी कितनी भी sexual slaves sexual pleasure के लिये घर मे रख सकता था. खरीदी हुई होने के वजह से ऐसी औरते किसी कि property बन जाती थी. ऐसी society होने के वजहसे लोग ऐक दुसरे कि property का स्वाद चखने के लिये तैयार रहते थे. ईसलिये ईस्लाम मे औरते खतरे मे आ गयी और safety के लिये ईस moveable property को ढँका जाने लगा. Sexual slaves family का हिस्सा होने कि वजहसे घर कि बीवियाँ और बच्चीयाँ भी पराये लोगो द्वारा sexual abuse के खतरे मे आ गयी. तो ऊन्हे भी ढंका जाने लगा. और ईस तरह से islamic society मे हिजाब आ गया. अगर ऊस जमानेमे ईस्लामिक सोसायटी औरतोके लिये safe होती तो ईन्हे ऊपर से निचे तक ढकने कि जरूरत नही पडती. अब ये लोग ईस शर्मनाक सच्चाई से बचने के लिये दुनीयाभर के बिना सिर पैर के लाॅजिक देते रहते है....
Thanks 👍 for your very good interview and very deep knowledge
thanks karan sir for putting things into test
We, who believe in constitution must admire this channel and particularly Karan for his bravery and wisdom to bring forth the truth to public and also the guests who at same degree dare speaking truth. Democracy dies in darkness and darkness can be in any form like illetaracy, ill information, distortion of truth, bigotism, majoritarianism, aristocracy, complacent attitude or narcissism. 👍