I've had a Brooks Professional since the mid 80s. I was a member of the Berkeley Bicycle Club (5 years) then rode with Cat 2s for years in Boulder - and held my own. Just making it clear, I put a LOT of miles on the saddle. It looks pretty much the same as new save some shallow cracking. Yes, these saddles can endure for over 35 years!
Bought some B17 about an month ago shortly after viewing your video and others. I've put on about 100 miles so far and the B17 was comfortable right out of the box. And great upgrade to my riding experience. Left me wonder why the B17 without any padding is so much more comfortable than my padded saddles. I think the answer may be the slick low, if-any, friction and the natural material and likely ever so slight give.
I have a Champion Flyer, which is basically a B17 with springs. It has about 5K miles on it. I mostly wear old bluejeans when I'm riding. Makes for a comfortable combination. I find the whole gel pants insert insert thing rather weird. As far as Proofhide, I've never used it. At first I used neuttal shoe polish. That worked OK, but it ran out so I swiched to a Kiwi leather product I had. It works well. I suspect a lot of things will work to keep the leather supple.
I have the Champion Flyer as well. It took awhile to break in, but is finally comfortable. The springs are a little tight for my taste, but the saddle is finally comfortable. I use neetsfoot oil or mink oil to soften it.
I have used a standard B17 for three decades and my posterior has begged me to go the Flyer rout but I am a diehard cyclist......I now enter the sixth decade of my life and may just break down and switch my priorities from mindsight to hindsight... if you catch my drift.
That thing looks completely done. The area where sit bones sit look completely sagged while the centre(the only areavthat actually can be effectively retightened) is the only area with support but thats not whete one eants it. I am a bit of a sceptic with the B17. I think many just claim its great because they spent a lot. Plus, they do wear out, they sack out as the spot where most pressure is gets stretched with no way to tighten. You dont need to be an engineer to figure out that that bolt will nesrly only tighten thecdirect line to where its attached. The most comfortable saddle I have used is a mid 90s Selle San Marco Integra that usrs a monocoque composite suspension design. However, it tends to fail under heavy riders where the B17 certainly is very robust. Grumpy critic.
I certainly agree that the bike industry runs primarily on two things: appeal to authority (people tell you what to buy and you buy it, regardless of merit) and cognitive dissonance (once you spend a lot of money on an item you're unwilling to admit it's substandard). That is true. What is false in your post is the idea that if a saddle's appearance offends you it must be a bad saddle. False, false, false. On many levels, false, but the most important level is that a rider's saddle must feel comfortable to that rider without regard to how it looks to third party observers. A brooks B17 feels supremely comfortable to anybody who rides it consistently for a few hundred miles. The comfort of a brooks is unparalleled. I'm actually surprised by how many people think a saddle must LOOK a certain way to be effective. Completely misguided. A saddle's function is of primary importance...appearance is tertiary at best. Thanks for commenting! Don't forget to give the vid a thumbs down if you don't approve!
Did my first 100 mile century on a brooks swift titanium... No padding at all, I just wore my regular polyester shorts, my butt is not in a slightest pain, and most my pain area has been my legs and arms. And the saddle only had about 1000 miles and not even fully broke in yet...
LOL great video. I notice everybody is hung up on how the saddle looks. It's not about looks or tension numbers. He rode over 60 miles in swimming trunks without discomfort! That saddle is ok. Don't mess with it.
Lovely! B17 for a more upright cycling position. Swallow is a good compromise for endurance road cyclist. Swift is good if you like to spend time in the drops; shape is very similar to Specialized Power saddle. I run both on different bikes
I have Brooks Flyer with about 10,000 miles on it and it has a similar look, but not quite as pronounced. I have tensioned mine a couple of times because I was riding on the rails. Just curious if you've experienced this. I love my Brooks. When people ask me what's so great about it I tell them it's like riding on a hammock
When you get a good Brooks broke in you will find yourself changing it to each bike you ride, I have one with about 30K miles on it. I recently purchased a Lekker saddle made in Holland and trust me, Holland knows cycling. Slightly less in price than the Brooks and every much equal in build and quality... give them a look.
I don't think they'll break in properly with chamois. Like wearing a diaper to the beach. Might be super comfortable to sit on the hot sand but you ain't breaking any ground with the babes.
I've got three brooks saddles - a Colt, swallow and B17. The Swallow is the most comfortable but the B17 ....you just don't notice it's there - very comfortable. If you maintain them they go on forever. In 40 years of using them I've become aware of one where a rail has broken.
Thanks for the vid, I'm picking up my very first Brooks Saddle today in fact. I'm totally excited for it. I easy put down that kind of mileage year-round. The saddle is a pretty penny, but it sounds like it is well worth the price.
+Daniel Ian Monreal I think it's worth the price. Especially when you consider how many people buy a $50 saddle only to find it doesn't fit. Then they buy another $50 saddle and it doesn't really fit either. Then maybe they go for 'quality' and bust out $120 for a saddle that's no better than the first. Or maybe they pay $100 to sit on a fancy gizmo that measures their Posterior Pressure Points...and then buy a $50 saddle. If you buy a Brooks and ride it a little while...IT FITS. Promise. Thanks for viewing and commenting!
That was my very first impression. I've been riding Brooks (Swift was the best out of all of them) for over fifty years, still am. Without the right tension, there's no 'spring' to the saddle, and a much greater likelihood of tearing at the nose or around the rivets. The saddle form shown is what's termed a 'sway-back'.
I thought the point of a Brooks saddle was comfort. Mine looks similar to the one in the video and it's incredibly comfortable. Why are some of you saying this one needs to be thrown away?
that saddle looks perfectly worn in , we used to get them wet then go for a ride to accelerate the process , once they end up like that they have the feeling of a hammock and sooo comfortable , they haven't been making them the same way for over 150 years because they're crap have they , if it aint broke don't fix it ( and they haven't ) , they are built by craftsmen using the same tools and machines they used in the 1860's , lovely saddle , always has been and always will be ( and you don't need padded shorts either )
The ultimate goal with any saddle is to acheive comfort WITHOUT padded shorts. BTW bikes have changed over the last 100 years but the human posterior is still the same!
Deformed means that you have more pressure points against your soft spots, not good in my book, that's it. Brooks saddles are almost great from the start and that's from their natural rigidity and shape.
That ridge in the middle is where your soft parts support your weight and if that doesn't have given you any troubles... I don't have much more to point out. Do you still use this saddle? Wet time riding and soaking must have contributed to that deformation. If it was in this condition almost two years ago we have the right ;) to see how it faired in the meantime. An update is in order.
Yeah I still ride it! Not as much tho...maybe 40% of the time. Next time I'm out I'll try to do an update video. I don't think anything is different but I see it every day so small changes over time might escape my attention.
My is B17 too, the select 2012 version. I used for 3 years 5000km more, and plus everyday ride 30mins at home. But it still keep the original shape, though the leather become very soft now. I found many people's brooks saddle like yours, be a curve shape, so didn't know which situation should be right🤔
+Keefe Borden Two to three weeks in my opinion. It depends a little bit ON THE WEATHER. Believe it or not. If the humidity is high and it's a little warmer your saddle is going to break in faster. If it's a little dry and cool, it might take longer. The Brooks Flyer!! Such a classic...good choice.
I bought the pre-aged, spring Brooks Flyer. The saddle is lovely, beautifully made, and gives a really nice ride. The word gliding comes to mind. However, even though it's the pre-aged model, it's taken about 800 miles to bed in. The Brooks is a long term investment, and you live with it until it moulds to your form.
Thanks for the in-depth review! Does it get any softer? This saddle is standard on the bike I just bought, and it's harder than hell. I've been an Avocet man since the production saddle on my first bike almost 40 years ago proved to be unridable over more than a mile. Thing is, this Brooks feels exactly like that one did, right down to the deep saddle sores. I've only ridden it for a week so far, and I see that yours has changed shape quite a lot. How long do you have to suffer before that happens? And does it go on feeling like it's carved out of hardwood, even after it changes shape?
My B17 still has a solid feel to it if I tap on it with my finger. So it never gets a 'soft leather' feeling to it like a baseball glove might. But after you ride it for a while it does get a smidge more vertical compliance after it breaks in. Kind of like sitting in a leather mini-hammock. I've never ridden an avocet but I know they're a solid product. And definitely lighter than a B17! Thanks for commenting!!
You have to live with the Brooks and give it time. It moulds to your form in the end. In my case 800 miles. You have to be patient, then all the wait pays off.
No. Can't reset it. I will say, though, that I've seen more than a few rando riders riding a brooks with a maxed out tension bolt & they just let the saddle sag as long as it's not contacting the rails. I wouldn't recommend that but it's not an unpopular choice, I guess! Most people don't ride rando and most randonneurs aren't outspoken...so the secrets of riding really big miles aren't known to many.
Not stains, but it can migrate and leave your shorts 'sticky' and darker where affected until it's washed out (difficult due to the very nature of what Proofide is and and for.
Most of it goes on the underside and what little goes on the top is thoroughly wiped off and buffed after a few. Then ride dark shorts for a few miles.
Looks like you've been using it in the rain without a cover. Leather saddles should be kept dry or they'll sag. A Brooks saddle should not sag like that. This one is way too far gone - you need to replace it, because that ridge along the center line of the saddle is bound to be pressing on the pudendal nerve, which can cause all sorts of nasty side effects.
Do you have any clever approaches to keeping the saddles dry? Or just, don't ride when it's wet? Don't know if I've 100% figured out the best approach if it's raining race day.
Avoyce N Deether ... never had a prob with moisture or getting wet. I use sno seal top and bottom. It’s a bees wax based and it’s melted in deep. I can’t wait till the day my saddles are as worked in as yours ... I ride all weather .....cheers
Agreed, looks trash. They're not supposed to look like that, also it is not the same as it was when new looking like that. I have one and it's not comfortable without bike shorts. It's a good saddle but not for everyone and not for every bike. BTW, I never use chamois cream on a proper fitting carbon saddle. Brooks are cool, but there are modern carbon saddles that our made quite well. One of them is Fizik, who happens to make BROOKS!.
My B17 broke its rivets after only 30,000 km. The rivets rusted and broke out of the leather. Very poor construction and unacceptable, considering the price of such a saddle. Sella Italia bought the Brooks company in 2002. They should rename it: BROOXIT.
"brooks saddles they don't break" utter rubbish..they offer a repair service and spare parts. The rails often break, just do a search online before posting nonsense. You didn't even know that cycle shorts are padded, then you don't know much about cycling and haven't been doing it for very long hence your highly skewed review.
I've had a Brooks Professional since the mid 80s. I was a member of the Berkeley Bicycle Club (5 years) then rode with Cat 2s for years in Boulder - and held my own. Just making it clear, I put a LOT of miles on the saddle. It looks pretty much the same as new save some shallow cracking. Yes, these saddles can endure for over 35 years!
Bought some B17 about an month ago shortly after viewing your video and others. I've put on about 100 miles so far and the B17 was comfortable right out of the box. And great upgrade to my riding experience. Left me wonder why the B17 without any padding is so much more comfortable than my padded saddles. I think the answer may be the slick low, if-any, friction and the natural material and likely ever so slight give.
I have a Champion Flyer, which is basically a B17 with springs. It has about 5K miles on it. I mostly wear old bluejeans when I'm riding. Makes for a comfortable combination.
I find the whole gel pants insert insert thing rather weird.
As far as Proofhide, I've never used it. At first I used neuttal shoe polish. That worked OK, but it ran out so I swiched to a Kiwi leather product I had. It works well. I suspect a lot of things will work to keep the leather supple.
I have the Champion Flyer as well. It took awhile to break in, but is finally comfortable. The springs are a little tight for my taste, but the saddle is finally comfortable. I use neetsfoot oil or mink oil to soften it.
I have used a standard B17 for three decades and my posterior has begged me to go the Flyer rout but I am a diehard cyclist......I now enter the sixth decade of my life and may just break down and switch my priorities from mindsight to hindsight... if you catch my drift.
That thing looks completely done. The area where sit bones sit look completely sagged while the centre(the only areavthat actually can be effectively retightened) is the only area with support but thats not whete one eants it.
I am a bit of a sceptic with the B17. I think many just claim its great because they spent a lot. Plus, they do wear out, they sack out as the spot where most pressure is gets stretched with no way to tighten. You dont need to be an engineer to figure out that that bolt will nesrly only tighten thecdirect line to where its attached.
The most comfortable saddle I have used is a mid 90s Selle San Marco Integra that usrs a monocoque composite suspension design. However, it tends to fail under heavy riders where the B17 certainly is very robust.
Grumpy critic.
I certainly agree that the bike industry runs primarily on two things: appeal to authority (people tell you what to buy and you buy it, regardless of merit) and cognitive dissonance (once you spend a lot of money on an item you're unwilling to admit it's substandard). That is true. What is false in your post is the idea that if a saddle's appearance offends you it must be a bad saddle. False, false, false. On many levels, false, but the most important level is that a rider's saddle must feel comfortable to that rider without regard to how it looks to third party observers. A brooks B17 feels supremely comfortable to anybody who rides it consistently for a few hundred miles. The comfort of a brooks is unparalleled. I'm actually surprised by how many people think a saddle must LOOK a certain way to be effective. Completely misguided. A saddle's function is of primary importance...appearance is tertiary at best. Thanks for commenting! Don't forget to give the vid a thumbs down if you don't approve!
Very sensible comments on the limitations of the tensioning system
Did my first 100 mile century on a brooks swift titanium... No padding at all, I just wore my regular polyester shorts, my butt is not in a slightest pain, and most my pain area has been my legs and arms. And the saddle only had about 1000 miles and not even fully broke in yet...
swift titanium! That's a nice saddle. Congrats on the century! Many happy returns...
I've got the Brooks flyer and it's the most comfy surface i ever sat on, even beats my couch, worth every penny!
Yep. Hard to beat a Brooks for comfort. Even after 100+ years of bike technology.
LOL great video. I notice everybody is hung up on how the saddle looks. It's not about looks or tension numbers. He rode over 60 miles in swimming trunks without discomfort! That saddle is ok. Don't mess with it.
His butt likes it like that. It's a personal thing.
Lovely! B17 for a more upright cycling position. Swallow is a good compromise for endurance road cyclist. Swift is good if you like to spend time in the drops; shape is very similar to Specialized Power saddle. I run both on different bikes
That saddle needs some tension as you can see the bumps of the metal bits showing through. 1turn of the nut should be good .
I have Brooks Flyer with about 10,000 miles on it and it has a similar look, but not quite as pronounced. I have tensioned mine a couple of times because I was riding on the rails. Just curious if you've experienced this. I love my Brooks. When people ask me what's so great about it I tell them it's like riding on a hammock
When you get a good Brooks broke in you will find yourself changing it to each bike you ride, I have one with about 30K miles on it. I recently purchased a Lekker saddle made in Holland and trust me, Holland knows cycling. Slightly less in price than the Brooks and every much equal in build and quality... give them a look.
Nailed it on that carbon saddle!! Brooks I’ve ever had!!
Since i have the b17, my padded bikeshorts are useless. Last year, my longest ride was 220 kms and i also did it in swimming shorts :)
I don't think they'll break in properly with chamois. Like wearing a diaper to the beach. Might be super comfortable to sit on the hot sand but you ain't breaking any ground with the babes.
I've got three brooks saddles - a Colt, swallow and B17. The Swallow is the most comfortable but the B17 ....you just don't notice it's there - very comfortable. If you maintain them they go on forever. In 40 years of using them I've become aware of one where a rail has broken.
I have a B17 and a Swallow and also agree that the swallow is the most comfortable.
I'm thinking about a titanium swallow for my carbon Felt.
I just received my new Brooks B17 Special saddle yesterday, installed it today and will test ride later today.
Thanks for the vid, I'm picking up my very first Brooks Saddle today in fact. I'm totally excited for it. I easy put down that kind of mileage year-round. The saddle is a pretty penny, but it sounds like it is well worth the price.
+Daniel Ian Monreal I think it's worth the price. Especially when you consider how many people buy a $50 saddle only to find it doesn't fit. Then they buy another $50 saddle and it doesn't really fit either. Then maybe they go for 'quality' and bust out $120 for a saddle that's no better than the first. Or maybe they pay $100 to sit on a fancy gizmo that measures their Posterior Pressure Points...and then buy a $50 saddle.
If you buy a Brooks and ride it a little while...IT FITS. Promise.
Thanks for viewing and commenting!
It requires tensioning, Brooks tell you to tension when sagging occurs.
That was my very first impression. I've been riding Brooks (Swift was the best out of all of them) for over fifty years, still am. Without the right tension, there's no 'spring' to the saddle, and a much greater likelihood of tearing at the nose or around the rivets.
The saddle form shown is what's termed a 'sway-back'.
what Brooks doesn't tell you is that they all sag and become worthless after about 500 miles...
Anybody who says 15k on a saddle is a fucking wanker.
@@umbertosmith1510 not true. I have brooks team pro after 3000 km - looks like new, no sag at all
@@umbertosmith1510 True, the screw doesn't do much.
@@umbertosmith1510 That's simply not true...
I thought the point of a Brooks saddle was comfort. Mine looks similar to the one in the video and it's incredibly comfortable. Why are some of you saying this one needs to be thrown away?
2019, bet he's still riding that beaut.
that saddle looks perfectly worn in , we used to get them wet then go for a ride to accelerate the process , once they end up like that they have the feeling of a hammock and sooo comfortable , they haven't been making them the same way for over 150 years because they're crap have they , if it aint broke don't fix it ( and they haven't ) , they are built by craftsmen using the same tools and machines they used in the 1860's , lovely saddle , always has been and always will be ( and you don't need padded shorts either )
umberto smith you're talking shit, you don't know fuck all
The ultimate goal with any saddle is to acheive comfort WITHOUT padded shorts. BTW bikes have changed over the last 100 years but the human posterior is still the same!
You should give it some tension at the front, that saddle is too deformed.
Can't get over how many people think the way a saddle looks is the most important thing. Or even AN important thing. Crazy.
Deformed means that you have more pressure points against your soft spots, not good in my book, that's it. Brooks saddles are almost great from the start and that's from their natural rigidity and shape.
Oh, I don't know. It's ok to care about how your saddle looks a little bit. Just, for me, don't care so much that you sacrifice comfort.
That ridge in the middle is where your soft parts support your weight and if that doesn't have given you any troubles... I don't have much more to point out.
Do you still use this saddle? Wet time riding and soaking must have contributed to that deformation. If it was in this condition almost two years ago we have the right ;) to see how it faired in the meantime. An update is in order.
Yeah I still ride it! Not as much tho...maybe 40% of the time. Next time I'm out I'll try to do an update video. I don't think anything is different but I see it every day so small changes over time might escape my attention.
привет что ты с ним сделал? такая деформация?
hi what did you do to him? such a deformation?
My is B17 too, the select 2012 version. I used for 3 years 5000km more, and plus everyday ride 30mins at home. But it still keep the original shape, though the leather become very soft now. I found many people's brooks saddle like yours, be a curve shape, so didn't know which situation should be right🤔
Three top saddle makers:
1-Brooks
2-Brooks
3-Brooks
Thanks for the review and for previous reply to earlier question......
How often do you adjust the tension on the saddle?
Excellent review!
Thanks. Just bought and installed the Brooks Flyer. How long does it take to break in?
+Keefe Borden Two to three weeks in my opinion. It depends a little bit ON THE WEATHER. Believe it or not. If the humidity is high and it's a little warmer your saddle is going to break in faster. If it's a little dry and cool, it might take longer. The Brooks Flyer!! Such a classic...good choice.
I bought the pre-aged, spring Brooks Flyer. The saddle is lovely, beautifully made, and gives a really nice ride. The word gliding comes to mind. However, even though it's the pre-aged model, it's taken about 800 miles to bed in. The Brooks is a long term investment, and you live with it until it moulds to your form.
Your video about carbon bearings, good lube, and tire RR was soooo good. Will you please repost it or email it to me?
here you go: th-cam.com/video/SQCr1QXNToA/w-d-xo.html
Thanks for the in-depth review! Does it get any softer? This saddle is standard on the bike I just bought, and it's harder than hell. I've been an Avocet man since the production saddle on my first bike almost 40 years ago proved to be unridable over more than a mile. Thing is, this Brooks feels exactly like that one did, right down to the deep saddle sores.
I've only ridden it for a week so far, and I see that yours has changed shape quite a lot. How long do you have to suffer before that happens? And does it go on feeling like it's carved out of hardwood, even after it changes shape?
My B17 still has a solid feel to it if I tap on it with my finger. So it never gets a 'soft leather' feeling to it like a baseball glove might. But after you ride it for a while it does get a smidge more vertical compliance after it breaks in. Kind of like sitting in a leather mini-hammock. I've never ridden an avocet but I know they're a solid product. And definitely lighter than a B17! Thanks for commenting!!
Proofide and ride.
You have to live with the Brooks and give it time. It moulds to your form in the end. In my case 800 miles. You have to be patient, then all the wait pays off.
what happen when the bolt tension max out can you reset it?
No. Can't reset it. I will say, though, that I've seen more than a few rando riders riding a brooks with a maxed out tension bolt & they just let the saddle sag as long as it's not contacting the rails. I wouldn't recommend that but it's not an unpopular choice, I guess! Most people don't ride rando and most randonneurs aren't outspoken...so the secrets of riding really big miles aren't known to many.
For some reason this reminds me of the SNL skit schweaty balls
ilove this saddle
When you proofide does that stuff leave stains on your pants??
Not stains, but it can migrate and leave your shorts 'sticky' and darker where affected until it's washed out (difficult due to the very nature of what Proofide is and and for.
Most of it goes on the underside and what little goes on the top is thoroughly wiped off and buffed after a few. Then ride dark shorts for a few miles.
i got a b17 and this video hypnotized me. ask your ass and he will whisper „b17“
Looks like you've been using it in the rain without a cover. Leather saddles should be kept dry or they'll sag. A Brooks saddle should not sag like that. This one is way too far gone - you need to replace it, because that ridge along the center line of the saddle is bound to be pressing on the pudendal nerve, which can cause all sorts of nasty side effects.
is this the narrow version of B17?
Just the regular B17.
its exactly best saddle!!
when someone arrives in 2000 years ahead on earth they will find a brooks saddle and specify it as alien technology.
Dude you must have a special relationship with that saddle, you should go to a proctologost.
Thanks for commenting, Rick Doehler!
..НАТЯНУТЬ ЕГО ДАВНО УЖЕ ПОРА.И возможно реже смазывать "Пруфитом" что-бы не раскисало как размазня.
I have 3 ... one on each of my bikes ... cyclocross, road and mountain ... nuff said ??
Do you have any clever approaches to keeping the saddles dry? Or just, don't ride when it's wet? Don't know if I've 100% figured out the best approach if it's raining race day.
Avoyce N Deether ... never had a prob with moisture or getting wet. I use sno seal top and bottom. It’s a bees wax based and it’s melted in deep.
I can’t wait till the day my saddles are as worked in as yours ...
I ride all weather
.....cheers
@@avoycendeether8869 i bought a cover from a USA firm Randijofabrications - still going strong after 6 years of riding.
I would venture to say that people call you, "that cheap guy".
Or 'tight ass'. But the B17 isn't a low end product. It's the right quality at the right price. Thanks for viewing!
Looks wrecked!
i like your bike i will have it
😳
That saddle has been neglected. It's fucked!
Obviously not according to the narrator and owner, obviously you know better, umm.
rowdy yes he does.
This is for old men
stupid comment
геморой с простатитом от такой сидушки
да нет, ничего удобнее после первого месяца
That is the most ugly bulbous saddle I've ever seen. Omg, man.
Ok, it's good to seat on it, and comfortable, but it looks terrible. Not the color, but the shape.
That looks horrid you should’ve given that to the dog 8000+ miles ago. Dinosaurs like brooks saddles.
Ha! I'm still riding that saddle. That exact one. This saddle pisses so many people off. It's fascinating...
Another opinion not worh shit, mine looks like this and is brilliant.
Rowdy Yates nothing lasts for ever. Also, you have an attitude problem sir.
Agreed, looks trash. They're not supposed to look like that, also it is not the same as it was when new looking like that. I have one and it's not comfortable without bike shorts. It's a good saddle but not for everyone and not for every bike. BTW, I never use chamois cream on a proper fitting carbon saddle. Brooks are cool, but there are modern carbon saddles that our made quite well. One of them is Fizik, who happens to make BROOKS!.
mark tiemeier saddle looks perfect check world travelers saddles look exactly like that. This is perfect 👌🏻
My B17 broke its rivets after only 30,000 km. The rivets rusted and broke out of the leather. Very poor construction and unacceptable, considering the price of such a saddle. Sella Italia bought the Brooks company in 2002. They should rename it: BROOXIT.
"brooks saddles they don't break" utter rubbish..they offer a repair service and spare parts. The rails often break, just do a search online before posting nonsense. You didn't even know that cycle shorts are padded, then you don't know much about cycling and haven't been doing it for very long hence your highly skewed review.
Thanks for viewing & commenting, kevin.
The older the prettier.