I'd really love to see a 10mm semi-auto gun with the damage you're talking about. There are a number of TH-camrs who've done this for years, like MAC. I'm sure he'd be happy to take some pics for you. I say this because that erosion claim is carrying an awful lot of water in this video, and if true, would eventually cause the datum line to move forward, which by the logic you've presented here, would lead to 10mm rounds effectively headspacing off the extractor and causing the same erosion. IOW, it should be obvious on a 10mm barrel with hundreds or more .40 through it even if it's only fired 10mm since then.
A .357 magnum revolver and a 38 special revolver cylinder also have a step up for the bullet to travel in until it jumps the cylinder gap into the forcing cone. Just like your demonstration of the 10mm chamber. As far as accuracy issues. A revolver jumps a gap and strikes a cone (funnel)forcing it over to align with the barrel. As far as erosion goes, how long till it makes a difference. At the most it would possibly affect the accuracy shooting 10mm, but most people probably would not see a change in their 10:58 group size. Have a longer “free bore” reduces chamber pressures too.
I've heard this argument made over and over. Not one time has anyone shown a real life example of chamber erosion, extractor breakage, or something bad happening. It's all talk and theory. Matter of fact, FK Brno states from the factory that you can shoot 40 out of the 10 mm barrel. Just one example but you get my point.
@@ASPextra Take into account differences in chamber specs and ammo specs and I can tell you that many of your 10mm are head spacing on the extractor also. Edit: I can tell you this because I reload much of my ammo and even brass from the same lot will have variances in length.
@@ASPextra Totally understand that. Just haven't seen or heard of anyone actually having a real life issue / failure related to . 40 in a 10. Much like you state in your video breakdowns - the proof is in the pudding. Not white board breakdowns. Much respect for what you do. - Q
It's not all talk. Muzzle erosion is a real thing. As for if it's serious enough to be dangerous or not.... I'd say stick to shooting 40 cal out of 10mm barrels only if you have a mass produced 10mm barrel. So that you can buy a spare barrel to swap in, just in case you do find out that the 10mm is shooting off
It's like putting McDonalds in your body, probably not the best, but I've been shooting 40sw through my 10mm glocks for YEARS with zero issues and I've never seen a single instance of someone having an issue online. Even if it did wear down my extractor, glock extractors are like, $8. Appriciate the awareness but it really isn't a big deal
@@ToastbackWhale Can I no, but that's a different argument 5.56 has higher chamber pressures than .223 where as a .40 has lower pressures than a 10mm Still with the quality of modern chambers your probably fine, I wouldn't put a 5.56 in a .223 but that's my own personal risk decision. Just pointing out the arguments are different
This all makes some sense in theory, but i think it necessitates a test. If it is as detrimental as you say, surely it would only take a few hundred rounds to manifest some noticable wear/break an extractor.
MThanks for your 💜 John. I felt too many people out there would just ignore the possible damage to the extractor. In higher pressure weapons this failure could lead to a stuck case. Many CCW individuals don't carry a backup and having your one and only fail...well, as you say, be certain of spiritual beliefs and readiness to meet your maker. We all will but many want to postpone it for as long as humanly possible.
How about 7.62x51 in 308? 223 in 5.56? 38 special in 357 Magnum? 45acp in 460 Rowland? 45 super in 460 Rowland? 45LC in 454 Casull? 454 Casull in 460 S&W?
308 is the superior chamber. 7.62 is the superior ammo. Memorize it. Reason is because 7.62 is factory sealed at the primer and bullet for moisture proofing. 7m62 also uses much thicker brass so it's less likely to explode. The only advantage of 308 is that you can cram more powder into it.... except that the brass is thinner so you may be playing with fire using a paper thin cartridge stuffed with powder to the buttload.
Long ago I saw a reloader chamber a FEG(Hungarian)PPK clone in 9x18 Makerov with a .380ACP round he loaded. After a few rounds that he claimed were "light" the entire extracter assembly decided to disassemble and was lost forever.😢 He switched back to 9x18 and the pistol continued to operate, throwing the cases clear. He seemed relieved.😮 The gun was an unlocked blowback and in the past many such little handguns didn't have extractors in their design. And yes, I can name a few if anyone cares.😊 So John is correct, don't do it!🤯
If you want to save ammo cost get a replacement barrel. .40 to 9mm or 10mm to .40 in all Glocks works without changing springs, extractor, or magazines. Only for practice of course. Would you use a weaker caliber to protect your life or loved ones? Don't know if 10mm to 9mm are available but that would be a fair greater savings in smmo cost.x
I was working with several students and the one I was working with had a 40 caliber Glock. I actually didn't know he was shooting 40 because it didn't matter to me at that point. So he ran low on ammunition and we asked another student if he could use some of his ammunition. My thinking at the time was everyone was using 9 mm. So we loaded up a 40 with 9 mm. The first shot actually hit the target pretty much where he was aiming but the slide didn't cycle. Thought that was a little weird so we racked the slide and fired a second shot. Same result. Good hit but really weird slide action. So I took the gun and fired a shot and at that point realized something was very wrong. Turned out the gun was a 40 and we had borrowed 9 mm ammunition. Now I don't know if this works for all guns but honestly I was surprised how closely the 9 mm fit, how it fit in the magazine and how semi-accurate it was. I would never suggest anybody to shoot the wrong caliber ammunition in your firearm here is my only point,: If you are in a zombie apocalypse end of the world shootout and run out of 40 ammunition because you shoot 40, you could grab a handful of 9 mm blow them up in your gun and continue killing zombies. Actually I don't know if it would kill I think it would but your gun won't blow up. Probably a bad lesson for everybody but just based on what happened it would seem if you were absolutely desperate you could use 9 mm or in a 40. You would have to rack the slide after every shot but the velocity should still do enough damage to keep you alive
I was at the range once shooting my 9mm with a friend who was shooting a .40 S&W. Somehow, he accidentally loaded one of my 9mm rounds in his gun. It fired, but didn't cycle or sound right, which is why we realized something was wrong. He manually cycled it and found the 9mm case. It expanded in front of the case head to the size of the 40 barrel. I kept the case and I still have it.
If you’re an instructor and you don’t recognize that checking caliber is important, and after 2 malfunctions you need to STOP and see what is going on, that’s a pretty big red flag man.
The only time I've shot .40S&W from a 10mm firearm was with a S&W 610 revolver - designed for use with full moon clips so it headspaces off the rim (not unlike shooting .38SPL out of a .357Mag). It never would have even occurred to me to put .40S&W in a 10mm autoloader simply because of magazine issues.
I agree with you.... So I should be okay shooting 380 ACP ammo out of my Ruger LCRx revolver in 9mm???? So far, I have had NO issue but get a softer shooting experience...
The rim design is slightly different. If they are held by the moon clips no problem other then fouling and eroding the chamber just as shooting .38 Special in .357 chambers. Clean assiduously and be happy that you have two calibers in one great revolver. Or move up to a .357 for the best gun of the 1970's!🎉😊@@ASPextra
I have seen a few people say CAN YOU. All these have ended with the statement, "You can if you need to, but you really should only run what the gun is designed for". Some people like to look across the room and they simply want an answer to a question that most people don't even know realize that there could be a question to....
I agree, use the ammo stamped on the side of the pistol; doing otherwise seems foolhardy. Good luck with warranty support if you shoot anything other than 10mm in your 10mm pistol. The gun may malfunction anyhow due to any number of factors; why introduce another?
The premature wear issue just isnt present in barrels with thousands of 40 rounds though... At least in glocks anyway. There shouldn't be any issue if the guns aren't actually wearing like you claim they willl.
Have dealt with a fair amount of 380 mixed in the 9 bucket and he kinda worked out aside from spooking me into thinking i got a squib and not cycling the slide enough. Seems like it could easily result in an actual squib scenario.
So in other words, yeah this is safe to do if you have no other choice come the fallout. BUT you’re gonna wear a gun faster, so don’t just go doing it for shits and giggles or just because one ammo is cheap and the other one is expensive.
A cure for this is for manufacturers quit making the watered down 10mm rounds and charging a lot more for a box of these that are only a .40 power . I would pay the extra for the target rounds if the power was their.
Funny - a person who wouldn't think of buying a pair of size 10 shoes for size 12 feet will nonetheless think that 9x19 and 9x17 (9mm/.380) are the same thing. Or 9x21, or 9x25, or any of the myriad 9mm cartridges that have been developed over the years. Longer cartridges aren't a problem - in a 9mm Parabellum weapon, for example - because they don't fit! But shorter? It's said that there's a financial and recoil incentive to follow the practice that has been common in revolvers into the world of semi-autos, despite the fact that they are totally different machines operating on different fitment principles. Financially, there's no incentive with 9mm - which is cheaper these days at .20/round than .380 - but with .40 vs 10mm, there's about a 33% economic incentive. Still, that's hardly enough unless you shoot a LOT, or - more likely - are seeking to minimize recoil discomfort. Good job of making the point not just on a technical basis, but also on the adverse wear consequences, which does hit the pocketbook by damaging the gun. And it's not just erosion of the forward chamber edge, either - it's buildup of fouling ahead of the edge on which the cartridge headspaces. That not only can affect headspace, but also pressure, and extraction - when a 9mm is fired in a chamber that has been used with .380, or a 10mm in one that has been used with .40 S&W, for example. It's similar to the .38 Special/.357 Magnum and .44 Special .44 Magnum "fouling ring" problem in revolvers. The net: as you say, fire the cartridge the weapon was designed for - or at the very least, be aware of what you're in for. Thanks for the clear, systematic treatise and video.
That will also cause malfunctions as the 40 in a 10 probably will jam by hitting the end of the chamber and jam right there. 10 mm are cut for 2.50 case length and 40 is much shorter. My STI 2011 is cut for 49 but at a 2.50 length and will not shoot factory 40 for that reason 😎😎
I've seen lots of people shoot 40 out of 10mm pistols and they cycled just fine. There are videos on TH-cam of people doing it. I'm not saying you should do it, but it does seem to work okay.
If you measure the spec's of most commercially loaded "semi-auto" ammo, the case is almost always shorter than than SAAMI spec's or chamber of your barrel,. So the extractor typically holds the case in place for the firing pin to contact the primmer anyway.. The issue is flash cutting of the chamber and or carbon fouling,.. Maybe high pressure loads of 40 S&W, or high round count could start to produce failure to chamber, but more likely failure to extract the fired case. The longer brass of the (10MM) will expand into the eroded flash cut in the chamber,, causing it to "stick"... Carbon fouling as well, long before a flame cut chamber.. ((By the way, the same thing happens in revolvers,. Hot loaded 38+P in 357mag,, 44 special in 44mag.. You just don't notice it as much because revolvers have a hand ejector..)) Not a great Idea,, but it's your barrel...
It isn’t true that someone who says you can shoot .40 in a 10mm doesn’t understand the way the rounds chamber, in fact that’s a pretty bold accusation. The truth is that there are plenty of folks who are well aware of these issues but have done this for many thousands of round without issue.
It's very easy to get a replacement barrel if you want to use .40 as training ammunition for a 10mm. Most 10mm guns are built for FBI loads which is barely above regular .40 anyway, so there probably won't be cycling issues. I use a .40 barrel in my Glock 20 and it's never had any issues
Not just any replacement barrel. Should be a Conversion Barrel, such as a Lone Wolf, Storm Lake etc. Conversion barrels are made for specific pistols, such as Storm Lake Conversion Barrel Glock 23 .40 to 9mm. Change the barrel and the mag & you’re good to go. Don’t just put a Glock 19 barrel into a Glock 23. It’s not the same.
@@benb5960 yes it's implied that you should get a barrel for that specific pistol. But i guess we are dealing with people that think you should shoot .40 from a 10mm in the first place
Meh. Whenever I've seen this issue addressed it's been in the context of a "What if" scenario. What if all you had was a 10mm Glock and all you could find was 40 S&W ammo? In that case it'd be good to know that IF YOU HAD TO, you could use the substitue cartridge. And think about it a bit more; how much steel parts-crushing power does that little striker have behind it? Seriously Man, if the striker exhibited enough force that it could damage, or somehow wear, your extractor, it would be penetrating every primer, and in that case, dry firing you Glock would be causing serious problems. So yeah, the bullet will do some minor scraping against the chamber shoulder, MAYBE, but firing a few shorter rounds on one occasion isn't going to ruin your gun or risk an explosion or anything like that. Just be sure to clean the chamber well before firing the longer cartridge, because there could be more crud in the shoulder at the front of the chamber after firing the shorter cartridge.
So I get the argument use the ammo the gun was designed for But the rest of the argument is based on wear not safety, so from a theoretical wear perspective sure but these parts are designed to handle far past what the design ammo outputs 1) for safety never design something to the operating pressures, 2) seating depth of factor ammo varies so you can get those high pressure points from factory ammo that would be higher than generated from the lower power .40 rounds Edit: Also telling people not to listen to others because you've concluded they don't understand firearms because of the points you made here is quite arrogant, you need to present more arguments and data than this for that
@oblivionpro69 Superior only if you have a 100% hit rate. But most don't and so capacity is gonna be a little more important. Bullet diameter would be very important for extra close range hip shooting where all that matters is getting the first shot off
Maybe for you. My wife and I shoot IDPA with G23. She handles it just fine. Also, the “high pressure round” moniker for the 40sw is BS. 9mm is near 40sw chamber pressure all other factors being equal.
A) Just because you can, doesn't mean you should. B) S&W makes a 10mm revolver that is also rated for a 40 S&W but it's because of that revolver chamber. On the other hand the Ruger LCR is rated for 9mm but not .380 and in fact .380 won't chamber/seat in it. The guns are made the way they are for a reason folks.
Can I shoot .40 Smith and Wesson from my Glock 10mm? Yes. Have I shot 40 from my Glock 40 10mm? Yes. Was I aware of the above FACTS before I did it. Absolutely. Will I ever again. Not unless there's a real good reason to. I bought a replacement barrel years ago so there isn't a need to be tempted 😞😅.
@@ASPextra must be "your truth". I used to shoot 10 mm and fired perhaps 1200 rds of .40 through the same gun. I had a few light strikes that may or may not have been the CCI primers, and weaker .40 would occasionally fail to cycle. But it didn't hurt or wear the gun in any way. The only component that could even theoretically see extra stress is the extractor. If it saves a person hundreds of dollars shooting .40 instead of 10mm it's worth it. But the reality is there is no problem. Go find a story of a person having damaged a 10mm by firing .40 from it. Gun store bs.
@@ASPextra bad analogy. Are you just having fun with this or using it for clicks or what? It's hard to believe you really think this is an issue when there is no proof firing .40 in a 10mm has ever damaged a gun and people have been doing it for many years. You come off as close-minded. You've got sponsors, go ahead and fire however many rounds of .40 you wish through a 10mm pistol of your choice and show us the damage. I'll click on it.
My 10mm S&W 610 shoots .40 S&W ammo just fine. (It's a revolver using moon clips for headspacing. 😁) At the range, I occasionally see empty cases on the ground that failed because the rounds were fired in the wrong gun. It's not unusual to see bulged 9mm cases that appear to have been fired in a .40. On my desk I have a .38 Special case that appears to have been fired in a 10mm firearm. The case has 3 longitudinal splits where the case failed. Gotta wonder whether the gun was damaged too. Every gun tells us what it wants to shoot. Do what it says, kids.
I'd really love to see a 10mm semi-auto gun with the damage you're talking about. There are a number of TH-camrs who've done this for years, like MAC. I'm sure he'd be happy to take some pics for you. I say this because that erosion claim is carrying an awful lot of water in this video, and if true, would eventually cause the datum line to move forward, which by the logic you've presented here, would lead to 10mm rounds effectively headspacing off the extractor and causing the same erosion. IOW, it should be obvious on a 10mm barrel with hundreds or more .40 through it even if it's only fired 10mm since then.
I can't remember the youtuber who knew a competition shooter from California fired over 20k rounds of .40 in his 10mm, never had an issue.
A .357 magnum revolver and a 38 special revolver cylinder also have a step up for the bullet to travel in until it jumps the cylinder gap into the forcing cone. Just like your demonstration of the 10mm chamber.
As far as accuracy issues. A revolver jumps a gap and strikes a cone (funnel)forcing it over to align with the barrel.
As far as erosion goes, how long till it makes a difference. At the most it would possibly affect the accuracy shooting 10mm, but most people probably would not see a change in their 10:58 group size.
Have a longer “free bore” reduces chamber pressures too.
I've seen 40 shot from 10 but never have seen any of the damage people talk about. We need real world results.
I've heard this argument made over and over. Not one time has anyone shown a real life example of chamber erosion, extractor breakage, or something bad happening. It's all talk and theory.
Matter of fact, FK Brno states from the factory that you can shoot 40 out of the 10 mm barrel. Just one example but you get my point.
But the reality is what I showed you. Head spacing is different.
@@ASPextra
Take into account differences in chamber specs and ammo specs and I can tell you that many of your 10mm are head spacing on the extractor also.
Edit: I can tell you this because I reload much of my ammo and even brass from the same lot will have variances in length.
@@ASPextra Totally understand that. Just haven't seen or heard of anyone actually having a real life issue / failure related to . 40 in a 10.
Much like you state in your video breakdowns - the proof is in the pudding. Not white board breakdowns.
Much respect for what you do.
- Q
It's not all talk. Muzzle erosion is a real thing. As for if it's serious enough to be dangerous or not.... I'd say stick to shooting 40 cal out of 10mm barrels only if you have a mass produced 10mm barrel. So that you can buy a spare barrel to swap in, just in case you do find out that the 10mm is shooting off
460 Rowland Co.disagrees WRT .45/.460. However, the COAL is the same, so not really the jump to the lands concern.
Once again, "can" and "should" are not synonyms
Great info as always.
It's like putting McDonalds in your body, probably not the best, but I've been shooting 40sw through my 10mm glocks for YEARS with zero issues and I've never seen a single instance of someone having an issue online. Even if it did wear down my extractor, glock extractors are like, $8.
Appriciate the awareness but it really isn't a big deal
Sorta like 5.56 in a .223 chamber: show me an instance where it’s actually kaboom’d a gun. You probably can’t.
I shoot 40 through my 10mm as well… definitely feels underpowered but it was free so…
@@ToastbackWhale Can I no, but that's a different argument 5.56 has higher chamber pressures than .223 where as a .40 has lower pressures than a 10mm
Still with the quality of modern chambers your probably fine, I wouldn't put a 5.56 in a .223 but that's my own personal risk decision.
Just pointing out the arguments are different
can you get a hold of a gun with that kind of wear on it ?
The rim on revolvers is used for extraction not head spacing
That’s not true. This is why a 38 or 44sp will fit in a mag but not the reverse.
This all makes some sense in theory, but i think it necessitates a test. If it is as detrimental as you say, surely it would only take a few hundred rounds to manifest some noticable wear/break an extractor.
I sure the heck ain't doing it.
@@ASPextraHa! Good choice!
Consider a part 2 demonstrating with the actual guns
Why?
MThanks for your 💜 John. I felt too many people out there would just ignore the possible damage to the extractor. In higher pressure weapons this failure could lead to a stuck case. Many CCW individuals don't carry a backup and having your one and only fail...well, as you say, be certain of spiritual beliefs and readiness to meet your maker. We all will but many want to postpone it for as long as humanly possible.
i 100% agree with you. I'm glad you made a video about this subject. I've always said the same thing you said.
How about 7.62x51 in 308? 223 in 5.56? 38 special in 357 Magnum? 45acp in 460 Rowland? 45 super in 460 Rowland? 45LC in 454 Casull? 454 Casull in 460 S&W?
308 is the superior chamber. 7.62 is the superior ammo. Memorize it. Reason is because 7.62 is factory sealed at the primer and bullet for moisture proofing. 7m62 also uses much thicker brass so it's less likely to explode. The only advantage of 308 is that you can cram more powder into it.... except that the brass is thinner so you may be playing with fire using a paper thin cartridge stuffed with powder to the buttload.
Thank you, John
When I saw the title, I thought man he finally ran out of things to talk about. I was very wrong, great video, I will never doubt him again 😂
Long ago I saw a reloader chamber a FEG(Hungarian)PPK clone in 9x18 Makerov with a .380ACP round he loaded. After a few rounds that he claimed were "light" the entire extracter assembly decided to disassemble and was lost forever.😢 He switched back to 9x18 and the pistol continued to operate, throwing the cases clear. He seemed relieved.😮 The gun was an unlocked blowback and in the past many such little handguns didn't have extractors in their design. And yes, I can name a few if anyone cares.😊 So John is correct, don't do it!🤯
Glock 20 is a 10mm that can shoot 40sw.
Not all manufacturers support that but my Glock does and that's why I believe they are a superior fire arm
If you want to save ammo cost get a replacement barrel. .40 to 9mm or 10mm to .40 in all Glocks works without changing springs, extractor, or magazines. Only for practice of course. Would you use a weaker caliber to protect your life or loved ones? Don't know if 10mm to 9mm are available but that would be a fair greater savings in smmo cost.x
.380 actually has a slightly smaller case outer diameter. Even though the bullet is the same diameter as 9mm Luger, the case is a little thinner.
Thanks.
Great explanation of what's going on.
I was working with several students and the one I was working with had a 40 caliber Glock. I actually didn't know he was shooting 40 because it didn't matter to me at that point. So he ran low on ammunition and we asked another student if he could use some of his ammunition. My thinking at the time was everyone was using 9 mm.
So we loaded up a 40 with 9 mm. The first shot actually hit the target pretty much where he was aiming but the slide didn't cycle. Thought that was a little weird so we racked the slide and fired a second shot. Same result. Good hit but really weird slide action. So I took the gun and fired a shot and at that point realized something was very wrong. Turned out the gun was a 40 and we had borrowed 9 mm ammunition. Now I don't know if this works for all guns but honestly I was surprised how closely the 9 mm fit, how it fit in the magazine and how semi-accurate it was.
I would never suggest anybody to shoot the wrong caliber ammunition in your firearm here is my only point,:
If you are in a zombie apocalypse end of the world shootout and run out of 40 ammunition because you shoot 40, you could grab a handful of 9 mm blow them up in your gun and continue killing zombies. Actually I don't know if it would kill I think it would but your gun won't blow up. Probably a bad lesson for everybody but just based on what happened it would seem if you were absolutely desperate you could use 9 mm or in a 40. You would have to rack the slide after every shot but the velocity should still do enough damage to keep you alive
I was at the range once shooting my 9mm with a friend who was shooting a .40 S&W. Somehow, he accidentally loaded one of my 9mm rounds in his gun. It fired, but didn't cycle or sound right, which is why we realized something was wrong. He manually cycled it and found the 9mm case. It expanded in front of the case head to the size of the 40 barrel. I kept the case and I still have it.
If you’re an instructor and you don’t recognize that checking caliber is important, and after 2 malfunctions you need to STOP and see what is going on, that’s a pretty big red flag man.
Thank you for your Opinion. I will see what happens.
Doesn’t .992-.850= .142? Am I missing something?
The only time I've shot .40S&W from a 10mm firearm was with a S&W 610 revolver - designed for use with full moon clips so it headspaces off the rim (not unlike shooting .38SPL out of a .357Mag).
It never would have even occurred to me to put .40S&W in a 10mm autoloader simply because of magazine issues.
I agree with you.... So I should be okay shooting 380 ACP ammo out of my Ruger LCRx revolver in 9mm???? So far, I have had NO issue but get a softer shooting experience...
The LCR with moon clips uses those clips to headspace off of the rimless recess in the case, so theoretically it should be okay.
The rim design is slightly different. If they are held by the moon clips no problem other then fouling and eroding the chamber just as shooting .38 Special in .357 chambers. Clean assiduously and be happy that you have two calibers in one great revolver. Or move up to a .357 for the best gun of the 1970's!🎉😊@@ASPextra
That looks pretty cool
But can you send a 40 cal barrel to a gun smith to be modified to chamber 10mm. Please get back to me as soon as possible.
I would think just buying a 10mm barrel would be best.
Tell me you don't know without telling me you dont know
I have seen a few people say CAN YOU. All these have ended with the statement, "You can if you need to, but you really should only run what the gun is designed for".
Some people like to look across the room and they simply want an answer to a question that most people don't even know realize that there could be a question to....
So... you're telling me there's a chance!
Good information for all of us.
Good explanation
I agree, use the ammo stamped on the side of the pistol; doing otherwise seems foolhardy. Good luck with warranty support if you shoot anything other than 10mm in your 10mm pistol. The gun may malfunction anyhow due to any number of factors; why introduce another?
The only exception is known cases that headspace off of a rim and are industry standard, such as .38sp in a .357 or .44sp in a .44 mag.
The premature wear issue just isnt present in barrels with thousands of 40 rounds though... At least in glocks anyway. There shouldn't be any issue if the guns aren't actually wearing like you claim they willl.
When you said revolvers, one person came to mind. I could be wrong though.
Have dealt with a fair amount of 380 mixed in the 9 bucket and he kinda worked out aside from spooking me into thinking i got a squib and not cycling the slide enough. Seems like it could easily result in an actual squib scenario.
Mine jammed up tight lmao. Took some serious muscle to get out. 😂My buddy accidentally loaded it in there. Lesson learned
Yes you can. Its been proven thousands of times. So, if i have to i can, but i will practice with what i plan to use, 10mm.
What about .22 through a 5.56 AR? Lots of bolt conversions are out there
Since the diameter is the same, a bolt conversion makes the gun a rimfire .22 and that is just fine!
Old Fort, N.C. ?
Fort Smith Arkansas
So in other words, yeah this is safe to do if you have no other choice come the fallout. BUT you’re gonna wear a gun faster, so don’t just go doing it for shits and giggles or just because one ammo is cheap and the other one is expensive.
A cure for this is for manufacturers quit making the watered down 10mm rounds and charging a lot more for a box of these that are only a .40 power . I would pay the extra for the target rounds if the power was their.
I accidentally shot 380 out of my 19 long time ago. It jammed TIGHT !!! 😬 Had to basically beat the slide open
John's weight loss is really showing results.
Hey John, did you go to "A" school in Milington TN? Latter part of 1992?
No sir. NTC Orlando. I was a nuke.
I know people may boo-hoo this, but if you really want a 40, why not buy a 40? All guns are expensive, sell your 10mm and buy a 40 cal. Thanks John
Funny - a person who wouldn't think of buying a pair of size 10 shoes for size 12 feet will nonetheless think that 9x19 and 9x17 (9mm/.380) are the same thing. Or 9x21, or 9x25, or any of the myriad 9mm cartridges that have been developed over the years.
Longer cartridges aren't a problem - in a 9mm Parabellum weapon, for example - because they don't fit! But shorter? It's said that there's a financial and recoil incentive to follow the practice that has been common in revolvers into the world of semi-autos, despite the fact that they are totally different machines operating on different fitment principles.
Financially, there's no incentive with 9mm - which is cheaper these days at .20/round than .380 - but with .40 vs 10mm, there's about a 33% economic incentive. Still, that's hardly enough unless you shoot a LOT, or - more likely - are seeking to minimize recoil discomfort.
Good job of making the point not just on a technical basis, but also on the adverse wear consequences, which does hit the pocketbook by damaging the gun. And it's not just erosion of the forward chamber edge, either - it's buildup of fouling ahead of the edge on which the cartridge headspaces. That not only can affect headspace, but also pressure, and extraction - when a 9mm is fired in a chamber that has been used with .380, or a 10mm in one that has been used with .40 S&W, for example. It's similar to the .38 Special/.357 Magnum and .44 Special .44 Magnum "fouling ring" problem in revolvers.
The net: as you say, fire the cartridge the weapon was designed for - or at the very least, be aware of what you're in for. Thanks for the clear, systematic treatise and video.
That will also cause malfunctions as the 40 in a 10 probably will jam by hitting the end of the chamber and jam right there. 10 mm are cut for 2.50 case length and 40 is much shorter. My STI 2011 is cut for 49 but at a 2.50 length and will not shoot factory 40 for that reason 😎😎
I've seen lots of people shoot 40 out of 10mm pistols and they cycled just fine. There are videos on TH-cam of people doing it. I'm not saying you should do it, but it does seem to work okay.
If you measure the spec's of most commercially loaded "semi-auto" ammo, the case is almost always shorter than than SAAMI spec's or chamber of your barrel,. So the extractor typically holds the case in place for the firing pin to contact the primmer anyway.. The issue is flash cutting of the chamber and or carbon fouling,.. Maybe high pressure loads of 40 S&W, or high round count could start to produce failure to chamber, but more likely failure to extract the fired case. The longer brass of the (10MM) will expand into the eroded flash cut in the chamber,, causing it to "stick"... Carbon fouling as well, long before a flame cut chamber.. ((By the way, the same thing happens in revolvers,. Hot loaded 38+P in 357mag,, 44 special in 44mag.. You just don't notice it as much because revolvers have a hand ejector..)) Not a great Idea,, but it's your barrel...
I like " The Imperial system is the only one that has been to the moon" just as George Washington intended when he founded our nation per SNL
It isn’t true that someone who says you can shoot .40 in a 10mm doesn’t understand the way the rounds chamber, in fact that’s a pretty bold accusation. The truth is that there are plenty of folks who are well aware of these issues but have done this for many thousands of round without issue.
I guess I just didn’t figure anyone was willing to ignore physics and design engineering and purposefully be that dense.
@@ASPextraAnother good one! 😁
Go ahead but it's gonna be a single action pistol basically
It's very easy to get a replacement barrel if you want to use .40 as training ammunition for a 10mm. Most 10mm guns are built for FBI loads which is barely above regular .40 anyway, so there probably won't be cycling issues. I use a .40 barrel in my Glock 20 and it's never had any issues
Yeah a replacement barrel is the way to go!
Not just any replacement barrel. Should be a Conversion Barrel, such as a Lone Wolf, Storm Lake etc. Conversion barrels are made for specific pistols, such as Storm Lake Conversion Barrel Glock 23 .40 to 9mm. Change the barrel and the mag & you’re good to go. Don’t just put a Glock 19 barrel into a Glock 23. It’s not the same.
…also Storm Lake 10mm to .40 Conversion barrel for my Glock 29.
@@benb5960 yes it's implied that you should get a barrel for that specific pistol. But i guess we are dealing with people that think you should shoot .40 from a 10mm in the first place
Meh. Whenever I've seen this issue addressed it's been in the context of a "What if" scenario. What if all you had was a 10mm Glock and all you could find was 40 S&W ammo? In that case it'd be good to know that IF YOU HAD TO, you could use the substitue cartridge.
And think about it a bit more; how much steel parts-crushing power does that little striker have behind it? Seriously Man, if the striker exhibited enough force that it could damage, or somehow wear, your extractor, it would be penetrating every primer, and in that case, dry firing you Glock would be causing serious problems.
So yeah, the bullet will do some minor scraping against the chamber shoulder, MAYBE, but firing a few shorter rounds on one occasion isn't going to ruin your gun or risk an explosion or anything like that. Just be sure to clean the chamber well before firing the longer cartridge, because there could be more crud in the shoulder at the front of the chamber after firing the shorter cartridge.
So it’s about living in some dystopian future rather than the world we actually inhabit?
@@ASPextra Yeah, pretty much.
So I get the argument use the ammo the gun was designed for
But the rest of the argument is based on wear not safety, so from a theoretical wear perspective sure but these parts are designed to handle far past what the design ammo outputs 1) for safety never design something to the operating pressures, 2) seating depth of factor ammo varies so you can get those high pressure points from factory ammo that would be higher than generated from the lower power .40 rounds
Edit:
Also telling people not to listen to others because you've concluded they don't understand firearms because of the points you made here is quite arrogant, you need to present more arguments and data than this for that
Well, the relative expertise between them and me is quantifiable man.
What dope would want to, or even think of using the wrong caliber ammo?
"I was shooting .40 S&W"
That was your first mistake
40 SW is superior to 9mm for those that handle recoil well and have high skill level. 15 rds of 40 packs a wollop compared to 17 rds of 9.
The ammo is cheap
@oblivionpro69
Superior only if you have a 100% hit rate. But most don't and so capacity is gonna be a little more important. Bullet diameter would be very important for extra close range hip shooting where all that matters is getting the first shot off
Maybe for you. My wife and I shoot IDPA with G23. She handles it just fine. Also, the “high pressure round” moniker for the 40sw is BS. 9mm is near 40sw chamber pressure all other factors being equal.
I disregard your facts and side with the feelings of 40 S&W shooters. How dare you speak against the cult of personality!
I'm sad that this has to be explained to gun owners.
Golly sakes guys
A) Just because you can, doesn't mean you should.
B) S&W makes a 10mm revolver that is also rated for a 40 S&W but it's because of that revolver chamber. On the other hand the Ruger LCR is rated for 9mm but not .380 and in fact .380 won't chamber/seat in it. The guns are made the way they are for a reason folks.
Again, revolver head spaces off the rim and does that via moon clips. :)
@@ASPextra exactly! Now does anyone know where I can find a good moon clip carrier for my LCR? My pockets are not an ideal choice long term.
Nice beard and haircut +1 because the wife approves ;)
Can I shoot .40 Smith and Wesson from my Glock 10mm? Yes. Have I shot 40 from my Glock 40 10mm? Yes. Was I aware of the above FACTS before I did it. Absolutely. Will I ever again. Not unless there's a real good reason to. I bought a replacement barrel years ago so there isn't a need to be tempted 😞😅.
Yeah you can get away with it but why take the risk, you know?
Exactly!
He doesn't know what he's talking about. You can't shoot 10mm out of a 40.. how is less chamber pressure dangerous..
lol tell me you don't know who I am without telling me.
Love the chalk talk. Using different color markers would help viewing the details ... from an ADA perspective.
You gotta test AND train with the loadings you are going to depend on - PERIOD.
Some of us own guns that are simply for recreation. You should look into it.
uh huh lol.
So... You're saying we should shoot 10 mm through our 9 mm.. Since it's only 1 mm difference 😅
This has already been proved out. Shooting .40 from a 10mm doesn't hurt anything. Old-husbands tale / gun store tale. Im disappointed in ya.
Sorry for telling the truth.
@@ASPextra must be "your truth".
I used to shoot 10 mm and fired perhaps 1200 rds of .40 through the same gun. I had a few light strikes that may or may not have been the CCI primers, and weaker .40 would occasionally fail to cycle.
But it didn't hurt or wear the gun in any way.
The only component that could even theoretically see extra stress is the extractor. If it saves a person hundreds of dollars shooting .40 instead of 10mm it's worth it. But the reality is there is no problem.
Go find a story of a person having damaged a 10mm by firing .40 from it.
Gun store bs.
You hope. I showed you the objective problems. People put gas in their diesels too and think it’s okay because it didn’t blow their engine up.
@@ASPextra bad analogy. Are you just having fun with this or using it for clicks or what? It's hard to believe you really think this is an issue when there is no proof firing .40 in a 10mm has ever damaged a gun and people have been doing it for many years. You come off as close-minded.
You've got sponsors, go ahead and fire however many rounds of .40 you wish through a 10mm pistol of your choice and show us the damage. I'll click on it.
No, I am not dumb enough to do that.
To much drama for me.
Well stupid is stupid does. It's a shame that you have a gun and have no idea what you are doing. Don't swap ammo
Everybody is shooting 40 in 10mm gunsn you are a little late in the party
It might shoot, but as my FLETC instructor said, it will rattle down the barrel like a hot dog down a hallway.
My 10mm S&W 610 shoots .40 S&W ammo just fine. (It's a revolver using moon clips for headspacing. 😁)
At the range, I occasionally see empty cases on the ground that failed because the rounds were fired in the wrong gun. It's not unusual to see bulged 9mm cases that appear to have been fired in a .40. On my desk I have a .38 Special case that appears to have been fired in a 10mm firearm. The case has 3 longitudinal splits where the case failed. Gotta wonder whether the gun was damaged too.
Every gun tells us what it wants to shoot. Do what it says, kids.
Yeah moon clips make the head spacing a non-issue. :)