For me personally and I’ve tried different methods and this in my experience works best - fill speaker stands with 2/3rds or a little more with sand , add a chopping board or simple thick wood with sorbothane hemispheres attached underneath on on top of metal plate or rubber pads underneath the board and a foam isolation below speakers - this allows stability of the stand and different layers of isolation this drastically cuts out vibrations / resonances. The sound will improve and the bass sounds way better - cuts out the super boom of the bass you’ll get a fantastic sound overall Currently I’m Looking at SolidSteel Tripods Series 6 with the above method and I’m set for life that’ll be my ideal set up. Not perfect I don’t care for that (it’s impossible) what you’ll get is a superb sounding speaker overall and Speaker placement is always paramount- move them around till you get what sounds great and don’t forget to have fun in the process . Sit back and relax… I may of waffled a little however for some starting out and for others that are seasoned - it’s my take I’ve got about 25 years experience and passing some knowledge and experience on to the new generation of enthusiasts
Great advice!!! This was my quarantine project for today. Last year, I re-foamed the drivers on a pair of my old Design Acoustics PS-10 with the downfiring 10". They are original, single-owner, vintage 1985 that I bought at my hometown Hi-Fi / Appliance store when I graduated high school. But they had been in storage for years until last December when I decided to bring them back out for restoration and use them as my main pair. For the past few months, I had been using them on a pair of aluminum dual-post stands, that I picked up at a high-end used shop, but which had never been filled with any dampening material. While they sounded OK, they would ring like chimes!! I always felt that the bass was too thin, could get muddy and didn't really punch like I remembered those speakers did in the 80s when they were my only set. So, today, I filled them with dried play sand (at a mere cost of $10). The results are beyond amazing.....jaw dropping. It literally sounds like a different system, entirely. The bass is thick and warm and comes through very clear even when listening low levels, which is important at times in a family house. Before, to get that 10" driver to really work, I had to turn up the volume. Now, even at lower levels it really sounds rich with a lot of separation. One added bonus is that they are no longer near as top-heavy as they were. I had considered other, more expensive material. But after seeing your video and your confidence in dry sand, I was sold on it. Great advice! Thanks.
I have had excellent results with sand, including in speaker box construction for filling dead areas as vibration sinks. I used an internal column piercing the box at an acute angle then filled it with sand to not only eliminate standing waves but also to "anchor" the speaker. That worked great. I have also fabricated wood stands as part of my designs with excellent results. The closest I got to a tonewood base was walnut, but it worked well. My preference is still oak or African mahogany.
Rogers were really nice loudspeakers, I remember listening to a larger sized pair of Rogers (think they had 10" woofers?) back in the mid 80's and being totally impressed with the sound. Unfortunately I didn't have the money back then to buy them so I ended up with a pair of low-end Fried Q/3s.
Being a heathen, my pair of LS3/5a are wall mounted. Just wasn't safe when the kids were young to use stands, now the dog would knock them over. I know that I'm not getting the best out of them, but I love their sound.
You can use kiln-dried sand but have a inch of MDF bored and put them on acoustic foam this can just be used without the stands if you've got a table or something you put them on. You could use engine oil instead of water would be better have to make sure it doesn't leak mainly at the bottom would be so plug it with metal putty first,
Most satellite stands use two horizontal panels top and bottom, and two long, thin vertical panels, all made of MDF which are not much prone to vibrations. I turn mine sideways so that the vertical panels do not present a flat panel facing the listening area. Due to the small size of the panels, I doubt they are introducing any significant vibration issues in the room, any more that much of the rest of the furniture in my listening space.
Generally you what to fill them up as much as possible but. Another tip is to max fill them 2/3 up. To not get a to high center of gravity (if you have children around there they tip easier..)
Hello sir. I like your content. Just a question. What is your opinion on chinese brand Edifier that makes cheaper bookshelf speakers. If you check amazon, it's highly rated and recommended.
A very well known speaker designer from a well known speaker brand uses those odorless cat litter that you can buy from any pet store or supermarket with pet care section. He is said to have found them sonically best.
sir I am Joe Mendez from the Philippines and I wanted to continue my passion in music production. Renently I bought a studio monitor and a speaker stand. But when the stand came its just a pole and my speaker has no hole in it for the stand.. frustrating. can you help me not to waste my stand can i do something about it so i can use it?🥺🥺🥺 I would really appreciate if you could advise me.. thank you
Shot and sand together, first 1/3 shot and than mix: sand + shot + sand... finish with the sand. If you don't wont lead, stainless steel small balls are ok too... weight and (no)inertia are important.
Hi Paul funny you mention water I've not tried it in stands but I thought of it as a damping material something similar oil for actually using in the speakers? By removing the bottom centre of the speaker and placing it in a tray of oil on pegs. I'll be curious to see what the results are.
You are correct when it comes to sound passing from water to air. However unless you have found a way to contain the water without using anything physical like a box then there will never be a direct water to air barrier.
Ethan Lau for their size they’re unbelievable speakers, I’m using them with 10wpc tube amp and custom passive sub with Janis crossover/amplifier. For near field listening the combination is hard to beat. I’m using Sonus Faber stands for them. 🙂
I use Foundation lead/sand filled stands with my ProAc Tablettes. Since lead poisoning was too slow a way to kill peasants it has been banned in most civilized countries. It has been replaced with alternatives like bismuth non-toxic shot. Paul, isn't there LEAD IN SOLDER? Just asking ;-)
Lead inside a sealed metal tube poses no health issues whatsoever, even if you handle it with bare hands during the installation, you can wash your hands or wear gloves. Lead is only harmful if you are breathing in fumes from lead, somehow get it in your blood stream or by drinking water that used lead solder on the pipes. That being said I would still not use lead because there are better options.
canuckken Lead also works through capillary action meaning if you touch it , it goes in your blood stream and stays in your liver 20-30yrs. You get away with it because it has to build up like radiation.
Only if you handle it consistently for long periods of time, touching it for a brief period it takes to fill speaker stands is not going to cause you harm but for those worried about it that is why I said you can use gloves. www.cmu.edu/ehs/Laboratory-Safety/chemical-safety/documents/Lead%20Soldering%20Safety%20Guidelines.pdf
Correct me if I’m wrong but at 350oC, lead doesn’t get any where near evaporating so the only fumes during lead soldering are the flux fumes which are still harmful, but nothing to do with lead.
I think you are correct, it is probably more the flux fumes that are dangerous when soldering but there are other occupations that use lead at boiling points which give off lead fumes.
I'm not an expert but I think metal would have a higher frequency resonance like a buzz where wood would dampen it below audible levels, sort of a natural carbon fiber?
Lead compounds are toxic rather than lead. Most lead compounds are not particularly soluble and so of limited toxicity. But handle with gloves, don’t ingest it. Long term exposure is the way to get poisoned.
Get yourself a pair of high quality, heavy duty, and that doesn’t, necessarily mean expensive. Follow the manufacturers directions. There 2 schools of thought with speaker stands. 1 advocates that a stand should be used to decouple your speakers from the floor. Whilst the other promotes firmly coupling your speakers to the floor. It will also depend upon the nature of the floor. Is it carpeted? Concrete? Suspended wood? Importantly, do you live in an apartment block, with people living below you? If so, you should seriously consider decoupling. Don’t be scared to experiment. Paul talked of sand or water. How about wet sand or maybe concrete. You can also get some very dense spray rubber foam which you can fill your stands with. It can be extremely inert.
WATER?!?!?! That makes NO sense at all. Water carries sound waves. Take a fork and tap it against a sealed can of soda. I can tell you it's not inert at all. It sounds like a bell. Take that can and fill it with sand. It becomes Inert. I generally enjoy your channel but some topics you might not want to cover (like claiming cables "have a direction" in another video). You sound incompetent and untrustworthy.
...I'd love you to 'started on politics' - you Americans are probably so numb'lafied by the state of corrupt politics, but you should really speak out.. ;o)
For me personally and I’ve tried different methods and this in my experience works best - fill speaker stands with 2/3rds or a little more with sand , add a chopping board or simple thick wood with sorbothane hemispheres attached underneath on on top of metal plate or rubber pads underneath the board and a foam isolation below speakers - this allows stability of the stand and different layers of isolation this drastically cuts out vibrations / resonances. The sound will improve and the bass sounds way better - cuts out the super boom of the bass you’ll get a fantastic sound overall
Currently I’m Looking at SolidSteel Tripods Series 6 with the above method and I’m set for life that’ll be my ideal set up. Not perfect I don’t care for that (it’s impossible) what you’ll get is a superb sounding speaker overall and Speaker placement is always paramount- move them around till you get what sounds great and don’t forget to have fun in the process . Sit back and relax… I may of waffled a little however for some starting out and for others that are seasoned - it’s my take I’ve got about 25 years experience and passing some knowledge and experience on to the new generation of enthusiasts
Great advice!!! This was my quarantine project for today. Last year, I re-foamed the drivers on a pair of my old Design Acoustics PS-10 with the downfiring 10". They are original, single-owner, vintage 1985 that I bought at my hometown Hi-Fi / Appliance store when I graduated high school. But they had been in storage for years until last December when I decided to bring them back out for restoration and use them as my main pair. For the past few months, I had been using them on a pair of aluminum dual-post stands, that I picked up at a high-end used shop, but which had never been filled with any dampening material. While they sounded OK, they would ring like chimes!! I always felt that the bass was too thin, could get muddy and didn't really punch like I remembered those speakers did in the 80s when they were my only set. So, today, I filled them with dried play sand (at a mere cost of $10). The results are beyond amazing.....jaw dropping. It literally sounds like a different system, entirely. The bass is thick and warm and comes through very clear even when listening low levels, which is important at times in a family house. Before, to get that 10" driver to really work, I had to turn up the volume. Now, even at lower levels it really sounds rich with a lot of separation. One added bonus is that they are no longer near as top-heavy as they were. I had considered other, more expensive material. But after seeing your video and your confidence in dry sand, I was sold on it. Great advice! Thanks.
Paul the way you talk is so nice and gentle and considerate!
@Luke Schneider more like motivational speeches
I have had excellent results with sand, including in speaker box construction for filling dead areas as vibration sinks. I used an internal column piercing the box at an acute angle then filled it with sand to not only eliminate standing waves but also to "anchor" the speaker. That worked great. I have also fabricated wood stands as part of my designs with excellent results. The closest I got to a tonewood base was walnut, but it worked well. My preference is still oak or African mahogany.
LS3/5A's are very hi-fi and loved by many, many audiophiles.
As Paul puts it, using lead shot shows you do not know how dangerous it is to be exposed to such a metal.
Rogers were really nice loudspeakers, I remember listening to a larger sized pair of Rogers (think they had 10" woofers?) back in the mid 80's and being totally impressed with the sound. Unfortunately I didn't have the money back then to buy them so I ended up with a pair of low-end Fried Q/3s.
Being a heathen, my pair of LS3/5a are wall mounted. Just wasn't safe when the kids were young to use stands, now the dog would knock them over.
I know that I'm not getting the best out of them, but I love their sound.
My bookshelf speakers sit on a shelf. Am I doing something wrong? :-)
yes
You can use kiln-dried sand but have a inch of MDF bored and put them on acoustic foam this can just be used without the stands if you've got a table or something you put them on. You could use engine oil instead of water would be better have to make sure it doesn't leak mainly at the bottom would be so plug it with metal putty first,
Most satellite stands use two horizontal panels top and bottom, and two long, thin vertical panels, all made of MDF which are not much prone to vibrations. I turn mine sideways so that the vertical panels do not present a flat panel facing the listening area. Due to the small size of the panels, I doubt they are introducing any significant vibration issues in the room, any more that much of the rest of the furniture in my listening space.
Paul seems like a nice guy . He would make a great neighbor but I don’t get much useful info from the videos.
Generally you what to fill them up as much as possible but. Another tip is to max fill them 2/3 up. To not get a to high center of gravity (if you have children around there they tip easier..)
Hello sir. I like your content. Just a question. What is your opinion on chinese brand Edifier that makes cheaper bookshelf speakers. If you check amazon, it's highly rated and recommended.
A very well known speaker designer from a well known speaker brand uses those odorless cat litter that you can buy from any pet store or supermarket with pet care section. He is said to have found them sonically best.
I'm using silica sand for my speaker stands. Filling them 1/2, or up to 2/3, it depends of stands, speakers, room acoustics.
I love it. ..."I've got an opinion on everything"! Ha!
What about steel shot? Heavier than sand?
sir I am Joe Mendez from the Philippines and I wanted to continue my passion in music production. Renently I bought a studio monitor and a speaker stand. But when the stand came its just a pole and my speaker has no hole in it for the stand.. frustrating. can you help me not to waste my stand can i do something about it so i can use it?🥺🥺🥺 I would really appreciate if you could advise me.. thank you
I use 1/2 acrylic, in an open front (three walls) bottom box like "H", with open uprights of the "H" supporting fairly heavy ADS L880s
Shot and sand together, first 1/3 shot and than mix: sand + shot + sand... finish with the sand. If you don't wont lead, stainless steel small balls are ok too... weight and (no)inertia are important.
I have Klipsch cornwall speakers..would raising them off the floor be a benefit?
Hi Paul funny you mention water I've not tried it in stands but I thought of it as a damping material something similar oil for actually using in the speakers? By removing the bottom centre of the speaker and placing it in a tray of oil on pegs. I'll be curious to see what the results are.
Water conducts sound four times better than air. Its posdible to hear whales hundreds of miles away. It offers no sound isolation or damping.
Stephen Weare so why put it in the stand? Yes I know about water conducting sound but it doesn't conduct it to the air
Stands are designed to stop vibrations traveling from the case to the floor. They stop the floor acting as a speaker.
You are correct when it comes to sound passing from water to air. However unless you have found a way to contain the water without using anything physical like a box then there will never be a direct water to air barrier.
Paul, do you think you can do a video that discusses how the ls3/5a could make the coupling of the highs, mids and lows at such quality?
Ethan Lau for their size they’re unbelievable speakers, I’m using them with 10wpc tube amp and custom passive sub with Janis crossover/amplifier. For near field listening the combination is hard to beat. I’m using Sonus Faber stands for them. 🙂
I use Foundation lead/sand filled stands with my ProAc Tablettes.
Since lead poisoning was too slow a way to kill peasants it has been banned in most civilized countries.
It has been replaced with alternatives like bismuth non-toxic shot.
Paul, isn't there LEAD IN SOLDER?
Just asking ;-)
Lead inside a sealed metal tube poses no health issues whatsoever, even if you handle it with bare hands during the installation, you can wash your hands or wear gloves. Lead is only harmful if you are breathing in fumes from lead, somehow get it in your blood stream or by drinking water that used lead solder on the pipes. That being said I would still not use lead because there are better options.
canuckken Lead also works through capillary action meaning if you touch it , it goes in your blood stream and stays in your liver 20-30yrs. You get away with it because it has to build up like radiation.
Only if you handle it consistently for long periods of time, touching it for a brief period it takes to fill speaker stands is not going to cause you harm but for those worried about it that is why I said you can use gloves. www.cmu.edu/ehs/Laboratory-Safety/chemical-safety/documents/Lead%20Soldering%20Safety%20Guidelines.pdf
Correct me if I’m wrong but at 350oC, lead doesn’t get any where near evaporating so the only fumes during lead soldering are the flux fumes which are still harmful, but nothing to do with lead.
I think you are correct, it is probably more the flux fumes that are dangerous when soldering but there are other occupations that use lead at boiling points which give off lead fumes.
Canuckken, thank you for the info. I will not be eating the stuff, or inject the stuff. Guess i just had a panic attack. Going to switch to sand.
im not a fan of treating dead objects with kindness and love...I barely love my relatives
i use attacam attabites 7.5kg in each stands there made from zinc for 2 pairs of custom design FS104 speaker stands
Sand and oil work together well in metal stands because they have good balance sonically.
What is the accurate matching amp with polk audio rti a3 bookself speker. I am luxman l114a amp. But did not get results very much. Plss help me
Kitty litter is a good benign solution as well. Preferably unused. ;)
Michael B. 🙄😛
One of the best media for loading stands are PENNIES!
And metal had less resonance than wood?
Lead is banned under RoHS (EU) regulations, it is well toxic, sand works well and is safe.
Why thumb down? Illiterate ... or denier of toxicity of lead??
I'm not an expert but I think metal would have a higher frequency resonance like a buzz where wood would dampen it below audible levels, sort of a natural carbon fiber?
Lead compounds are toxic rather than lead. Most lead compounds are not particularly soluble and so of limited toxicity. But handle with gloves, don’t ingest it. Long term exposure is the way to get poisoned.
Thanks
If you have speakers that have cabinets that pass on that much vibration, you have much bigger problems than a "not dense enough" speaker stand.
sand works great
What about cinder blocks as stands?
Thanks!
They won't necessarily dampen vibrations but are effective at raising speakers to the appropriate height (tweeter at listener's ear level).
Get yourself a pair of high quality, heavy duty, and that doesn’t, necessarily mean expensive. Follow the manufacturers directions.
There 2 schools of thought with speaker stands. 1 advocates that a stand should be used to decouple your speakers from the floor. Whilst the other promotes firmly coupling your speakers to the floor. It will also depend upon the nature of the floor. Is it carpeted? Concrete? Suspended wood? Importantly, do you live in an apartment block, with people living below you? If so, you should seriously consider decoupling. Don’t be scared to experiment. Paul talked of sand or water. How about wet sand or maybe concrete. You can also get some very dense spray rubber foam which you can fill your stands with. It can be extremely inert.
If you want high mass and want to limit lead exposure, try steel shot. Been using it for years.
Yep. Oil dry. Or kitty litter is cheap too.
This company would disagree with you. www.russandrews.com/stands-for-standmount-speakers/
Lead is a great way to reduce one's IQ.
WATER?!?!?!
That makes NO sense at all.
Water carries sound waves. Take a fork and tap it against a sealed can of soda. I can tell you it's not inert at all. It sounds like a bell.
Take that can and fill it with sand. It becomes Inert.
I generally enjoy your channel but some topics you might not want to cover (like claiming cables "have a direction" in another video).
You sound incompetent and untrustworthy.
Which goes to show he doesn't know what he is talking about as he admits half way through the video. Says it all really.
深圳报关亮了，看来有些流程在中国完成
I’ve loaded thousands of shotgun shells, with no issues from lead shot. SMDH
Geoff Longford what are you talking about. Here comes the snowflakes!
...I'd love you to 'started on politics' - you Americans are probably so numb'lafied by the state of corrupt politics, but you should really speak out.. ;o)
*LOOL*