ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 24 ม.ค. 2018
- Join us as Product Manager, Otto Jørgensen, explains why stands do make a difference and answers questions about decoupling, safety concerns, what to fill them with, height and more on the seventeenth episode of Ask the Expert.
In this episode:
01:39 - Between the stand and speaker: spikes, rubber or?
04:58 - Between the stand and the floor: spikes, rubber or?
09:47 - How do you make sure stands do fall over?
11:53 - Should I fill my stands with sand or lead?
14:47 - What's the best material for building stands?
17:18 - How tall should a stand be?
18:34 - Five quick answers...
Remember that you can find all of our Ask the Expert episodes right here on TH-cam: dynaud.io/AskTheExpert.
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Hi! We hope you enjoyed our video on loudspeaker stands and found a useful tip or two. In the video, we unfortunately mention an old hi-fi tip as a suitable option: lead. That's obviously wrong. Lead is toxic. We do not recommend using lead, but instead recommend dry sand or steel.
You can get very fine Aquarium Gravel for a pretty reasonable price, and you can get fine Chicken Grit for a pretty reasonable price. Both are more expensive than sand, but sand tends to have a very find dust in it that can leak out of stands if they are not completely sealed. That's not a problem with Aquarium Gravel or Chicken Grit. Though for both of these there is more air, so a bit less weight, but the stands are still going to come close to 40 or 50 pounds each (18.2kg to 23kg). Of course, if you are sure the stands won't leak, then common Kiln Dried Play Sand is great. But, assuming wood or steel stands, you want DRY SAND, any moisture in the sand will compromise the wood or the steel. So no common bulk construction sand, it has to be DRY SAND. Of course moisture is not a problem with Aquarium Gravel, which also tends to be ph neutral, or Chicken Grit. They can get wet, but they do not tend to hold water the way sand does.
One additional note: If you use sand and you are worried about dust, then just fill Zip-Lock plastic bags with sand to roughly the diameter of the column and pack the bags down inside. You won't get the full weight of just pouring sand in but you will get significant weight, and the dust will be controlled. Just a thought.
Interesting ideas! Thanks for sharing 😊
Cat Litter.... Recommended by Andrew Jones: Cheapish, very dry.
stevenswall -- - but it can be dusty. Not sure but I think most cat litter is clay. Sand is actuall very cheap but is has fine dust. If the Stands are truly sealed that's not going to be a problem. If not, then there are alternative solutions what have already been discussed. Still Cat Litter is at least worth considering.
very informative, answered many questions that i had about stands. will help me set up my speakers properly.
I'm glad to hear that, Dennis. Happy listening! 🎸 //Christopher.
These videos are great and have helped me improve the sound of may systems. Thumbs up. Christopher, don't stare down the barrel of the lense unless you are speaking to the audience.
i went with both approaches...built a heave stand (27 kg) and used soft materials to decouple the speaker from the stand anyway. pretty good result i would say :)
Thank you for answering my height question! Even though it took me a year to notice this video was uploaded, since I just bought a "stand 4" from Dynaudio! 😅
great advise. Will receive my HS with Stand 20 in a couple of days
Wonderful information. Thank you
Another great video peter , your attention to detail and passion are amazing , great to see , any chance of you doing a master class on ifra bass set ups as u understand them ........?
Really great episode! Recently bought the 6s and really made a difference!
Thanks, Alonso. 😊I am glad you found this episode useful. //Viktorija
Thanks guys. Excellent video.
I'm happy you like the video, Simon! //Christopher.
Enjoyed the video! I got really helpful information. Thanks!!
Fantastic, Souf. I'm happy it was helpful. And thanks for leaving a comment 😄 //Christopher.
Great videos Christopher
I could never afford dynaudio
speakers but I find your information very useful for things I can afford.
If you have a small room, look for a second hand Evoke 10 and prepare to be blown away as I was.
Great talk. What about hanging the speakers? Is this an extreme version of the decoupled speaker-stand method?
Hi, I have Stand 20 with Special Forty. You recommend steel shot - what size is optimal and how much should I put into the stand?
I would have called bullshit on anyone that said they would make a profound difference but I bought a pair of Atacama moseco 6 stands recently just to get them off the temp stands they were on and make the room look neater and improve the sound a bit.
omg, I am still in shock about how much difference it has made, it's like having a new pair of speakers.
A 15° dispersion tweeter will fan out 0.27 times the distance (TAN 15°). So the sound fans out 2.7 ft at 10ft listening distance, or in metric 0.81m for a distance of 3m. Keep in mind in this case, 15° is actually ±7.5° from the Center Line. That is a very narrow beam, virtually all tweeters disperse the much and many of them significantly MORE.
both of you were great !
really helpful and direct professional answers thank you from Israel(:
Fantastic! Cleared up so many questions. By the way, it's "schools of thought"! 😁
Could you use sound deadening material on the stand to help minimize resonance?
Thanks for this. For future reference, we say “schools of thought,” versus “school of thoughts,” as we’re referring to multiple educational disciplines. All the best.
School Of Thoughts....sounds dreamy (not to mention Schools Of Thoughts)
very interesting, thanks
Thank you!
Would it matter if I place floorstanders on a concrete floor without the spikes? Or are spikes a must?
What about four 1/2 inch high, 1/2 inch diameter felt pads, one in each corner, between the speaker and the stand?
Brilliant, thanks!
Stand height depends on ceiling height, and room dimensions. Bass response depends on phase boost/cancellation, and thus on the distances from woofer and port to floor, ceiling and walls...
so, I shouldn't combine stability with isolation? I was thinking to make a large sandbox base, and have it sit on 4 rubber feet...and a 2cm thick anti vibration rubber piece between the speaker and the stand base: combining isolation with heavy stability. If money is not an issue, shouldn't I go with heavy stability over isolation?
Where can I get a set of the stands you two guys are bringing up off the floor during the video. I have the Stand 6 and I'd rather have the gray one you show us. Where to purchase? Alex
Hi Alex. It depends on where you live. You can either visit a local dealer (find one here: www.dynaudio.com/find-dealer). If you live in the UK or Ireland, you can also purchase our stands online: www.dynaudio.com/home-audio/accessories. We used the Stand 20 in silver in the video //Christopher.
I love these videos
Would these stands fit KEF ls50 meta's?
Hi, I have an additional question.
Would it make sense, to place a bookshelf speaker on a board which is hanging from the seeling?
So the speaker would be decoupled from the sorrounding. But it might start "swinging" by the Woofer movement....
Thank you!
Yes, that's an effective solution, but not very practical for most people ;) // Lilli
Osm info sir thanx you
No problem. I'm glad you liked! //Christopher
Blutec works wonders and it doubles as adhesive which is a bonus
I have a suspended bare wooden floor, My new floor standing tower speakers sounded really bad vibrating through the floor.
I solved this by standing them on grinite kitchen work surface savers using the supplied spikes and spike shoes, I stuck self adhesive rubber feet a under the granite, I have two pieces of granite under each speaker with rubber feet in between them.
(Self adhesive rubber feet from Ebay -- Granite kitchen work surface savers from homeware section of department store.
Very good video guys.
Thank you 😊
“Bolting” will give you higher sound levels. Decoupling will reduce harmonic coupling and resonate feedback.
Thank goodness!
I'm a welder and have built many stands, so easy to build any shape or size and as long as the bottom is good and heavy with good carpet spikes and the speaker is sitting on something like neoprene they will be very stable.
Adolf has a question. How far do you put speakers?
My question is regarding approximately how many kilos of sand to purchase for the Dynaudio stand 20 re pair of dynaudio standmount speakers.
I have had the Contour S1.4 for sometime with Stand 6, and hoping to make it even better, recently I purchased a pair of adapter to be fixed on Stand 6. Opening the pack of adapter I found only 8 wood screws with the plates, there was on installation instruction. I supposed the four bigger holes are for fixing the plates with allen screws on the stand, but the other four smaller holes do not match any holes of the bottom of the S1.4 speaker. Please advise (1) how am I supposed to fix the stand adapter plate to the speakers? (2) should there be any screws or bolts or accessories missing the pack? (3) is there supposed to be installation instruction missing from the pack? Another query I have is that the Stand 6 came with 8 big spikes and 8 small spikes, the instructions do not say how to use the smaller spikes, and I found that the size of the smaller spikes doesn't fit any where.
Please help.
We messaged you on FB!
What if you have laminate flooring laid on top of a concrete slab?
@Dynaudio, I have a question about placing speaker stands on tiled flooring. I've ordered a Stand 20 for my special 40s and I'm hoping for some advise. Using spikes at the bottom of the stand and placing them on spike shoes vs placing stands with only the rubber mounts at the bottom of the stand on the tiled floor. Are both options equally good?
Hi! I talked to Otto and here's what he said: "They will function differently, with different results. Which one would be preferred will vary based on many factors, including your own preferences. We would suggest trying out both. As a temporary solution to test the acoustic properties, you can use for instance some coins to protect the floor, before investing in separate floor protectors." I hope it helps, Christopher.
@@dynaudio Thank you Christopher & thanks to Otto as well. I did try both the options a long time ago but I really couldn't tell the difference for certain. Anyway, I'm most likely going to stick with having spikes on spike shoes.
Since you didnt notice any audible differences, stick to the most stable option.
How does it affect if I want to hang the speaker from a hanging steel cable?
What height is the best? Great explanation by gentleman in the right. White shirt. Can you please answer my question
So how would you handle a second level floor that that has carpet and then wood underneath this? Is it best to penetrate the carpet and spike it to the wood floor?
Hi Eric. We would still recommend that you decouple the stands from the wooden floor. But add enough weight to make sure it's stable. //Christopher.
Stands are also used to obtain the optimum listening height.
The answer of my question may be obvious to most of the other viewers as nobody have asked it yet, but: What side of the stand is suppposed to be in the front? In the advertising pictures the "closed"/flat side seems to be the front, and the narrow side the back, but it does not explicitly say what side is the front or the back. Is it generally so, that the narrower side of a stand is supposed to be in the back?
The "narrow side" (in case of the Stand 20) contains the cable management compartment, leading straight to a hole in the base plate. The front compartment can be filled with lead, steal, sand. It's all very obvious once you're holding it in your own hands. Impossible to get it wrong.
Is 10 degrees of tilt enough to be child proof? I sold my speakers when my little one was born and missing hifi terribly! Are they even safer when filled with sand? Or would they still have the same tilt possibility?
For a good stand, isn't it possible to build a wooden form and cast your stand out of concrete?
How about using some modified 3 and 4 legged stools as speaker stands? I'm sure many already make good use of stools since they're more reasonably priced. Or, why not use water to weigh down certain stands? A fine video though.
I arranged 6 28lb concrete bricks as speaker stands, set them on carpet squares on my wood floor.
NICE!
Nice. This gave me an idea for a cheaper solution. Looks don't matter in this case. Thanks!
how did you fasten the speakers to the bricks?
@@Canadian_Eh_I they were old bookshelf speakers so I just sprayed the top of the bricks with truck bed liner and set them on that
Great Video. But unfortunately I didn't fully understand something. : I have a big Floor standing speakers ( 70Kg Each ) ON a CERAMIC floor. ( Focal Sopra 3 ) , What EXACTLY do I need to use ? As the speakers have a build in spikes (with an option not to use them ) Thanks in advance.
Hello! Thanks for the comment :)
We cannot comment on other brands speakers, therefore we'd advise you to direct that question towards the company in question! Please let us know if there's anything else we can help you with :)
@@dynaudio thanks for your reply. So I am asking the same question ( Basic Question ) regarding Big floor speakers on a Ceramic floor ? As of now I am using spikes and Spikes Shoes with Metel cover and neoprene / Like Rubber inside the Shoes , Don't understand if that's OK.
If you use lead should it be melted and poured to become one solid mass or would like lead shot be acceptable?
Hi Bob, Lead shot is the idea, but as pointed out by others it's not really environment-friendly... // Lilli
Thanks. I searched for this on TH-cam. Lots of videos, and most of them with little information. Your video includes lots of interesting information. Thanks!
We're happy to hear it helped :)
What stand are you using as the sample in this video, stand 10 or 20?
That's a stand 20 :)
Is there a material with the same density as lead other than sand? Lead is very dangerous to have in a home.
What if you filled the stand with concrete? isn't that heavier than sand and lead.
Consider using cleaned aquarium gravel to fill the stand column instead of sand or lead.
Sand would fill better than gravel I feel, gravel could have spacing and cause vibration?
guy on the left keeps periodically staring into the viewers' souls while otto was talking. creepy af.
Haha 😂 Gotta make eye contact with the viewer, haierthanhai. Maybe not look into the abyss of their soul, but still... I hope you got something out of the episode, though. Cheers, Christopher.
thanks for the reply! did not mean to offend anyone, the content is the most important part that was done well. it's not the eye contact itself that is the problem - it's the timing of the eye contact. it feels natural to hold eye contact with, or look in the general direction of the person who is talking. Christopher keeps looking into the camera during Otto's dialogue - which feels awkward.
Again, nothing to "really" complain about. Cheers!
No offense taken! At all. And you're taking to Christopher from the video. I'm happy you liked the content, haierthanhai. That's what matters the most to me ☺️
@@EddyTeetree Yeah, when he looked into the camera like that I felt violated and dirty.
I'll never think of speaker stands the same.
Goddammit! I'm never drifting down to the comments again before the video ends..
What are some good speaker stands for bookshelfs that dont cost 300$? like something for 100$ a pair? I see lots of brands out there, which ones are well made? I dont mind made in china if price is right and stand is sturdy
BLU-TAC is the best material to attach the speaker firmly to the stand and I'm surprised that this isn't mentioned.
I discovered this by accident and it’s so secure
Hvor sjovt det er!
Og I er så smukke...
Tell me guys, how many joints does it take to make up for granite foundation under the stands?
Oh, stop it, you! You're making us blush ☺️ I will ask Otto about your question on Monday. Cheers, Christopher.
Hi Christopher, Otto - you state that the height of a speaker stand (for a typical bookshelf speaker) is 60/61cm and that the tweeter of the speaker should preferably be at ear level. Allowing for a normal sized chair/sitting position and a person of average height, there's no way the tweeter of a standard bookshelf speaker would reach ear level? Please correct me if I am missing something?...Thanks.
Hi Marc. Do you mean that the tweeter would be too low for ear-height?
@@dynaudio Thanks for the follow-up reply. Yes, assuming a standard chair/sitting position and a person of 'average' height, the tweeter on a standard bookshelf speaker would be approx. 30cm below ear level using a 60/61cm speaker stand. I therefore wonder why you recommend speaker stands of 60/61cm (which are also commonly recommended)? Thanks.
@@marcfoss7687 In reality, having the tweeter at ear-height shouldn't necessarily be taken too literally. It refers more to the optimal "listening window" which is where the speakers just sound "right," which can be a window of 15cm +/- In that sense, whether the tweeter is 15cm above or below your ear precisely should be negligible. Also, just keep in mind that one tends to sit lower in a sofa :-)
@@dynaudio Thanks, appreciate your reply and advice...I will definitely check out the height of my sofa :-)
@@marcfoss7687 I as well do not understand why they recommend 24 inches or around 61cm for speaker stands. I sit in my sofa I'm six foot one and that's 41 inches to my ear. I have 28 inch speaker stands and measuring the Tweeter is 39 inches from the floor. If I were to use the 24 in stands that would only be 35 inches. Maybe if you're 5 foot 6 inches tall you'd get 24 inch stands.
Haha, him looking at the camera again, hilarious
Blu tack 💙 between speakers n stands
These videos have great information but are hard to watch without laughing.
Can someone tell me why he keeps shaping his neck around and looking straight at the camera for just long enough to make it uncomfortable?
I have to say I'm having trouble with the logic of the argument about how to place the monitors onto the stand. the expert on the video says that bolting the monitor onto the stand and using spikes "creates the same result", however, it seems it does the exact opposite. while bolting the monitor creates maximum friction and therefore holds the speaker onto the stand, spikes create minimum friction and therefore the stand might "move around" on the stand as the element is pushing air at the listener. how could it create the same result?
also, as i see it, the point of spikes is to minimize the transference of energy from the speaker to the stand, similar to using a soft fabric. either way this is not clear. I hope you could explain better how you mean what you said.
Hi Jonathan, yes you're right! There is of course a difference, we didn't communicate it properly. Sorry about that and thanks for correcting 😇
thx for the response. so does that mean that using spike is not adviced on a heavy stand? or is it still advised but only the reason why is different?
Hi Jonathan, in our experience, the best result comes from using a soft material between the stand and the speaker, although bolting the speaker to the stand is safer with regards to the risk of the speaker tipping over. However, the end result depends on many different factors, so there isn‘t ONE correct answer. Try out the options and see which one works best for you! // Lilli
I disagree with this and with Dynaudio's answer. :) Spikes on the top plate WILL punch holes in your speaker's cabinets. While the surface area might still be small, the amount of pressure applied is very high. The result is definitely a fixed coupling with a lot of horizontal friction. Very similar to bolting a speaker to the top plate, except you can still lift it so it's less safe.
There is this old myth of spikes acting as a kind of "mechanical diode", thus minimizing the transfer of energy. I call this a myth since I see no scientific proof for it. Also, if this was the case, spikes would need to have the same orientation on the top plate and the base plate (which they never have).
What did he say at 14:23? Center of gravity? If that's what he said, how is that important?
Lower center of of gravity is more difficult to tilt.
What to do if it's a wooden floor and the stand have spikes?
Hi Felipe. You can get discs to put under the spikes, or even use coins or similar, to protect the floor. This will retain the advantage of a small contact area, which is the purpose of the spike. //Christopher.
Thank you very much, Christopher.
You´re very welcome, Felipe 😊
Interesting. BTW, it's "schools of thought." But I'm amazed how well many non-native speakers speak English.
Guy on the right: "says something" Guy on the left: "Hmm"
I have a problem with my evoke 50. The built in rubber feet in the stand makes the speaker a bit wobbly because the floor is not completely flat. But I can't couple my speakers to the floor because the floor is floating and rings together with the speaker if I couple it to the floor. how could I solve this problem?
Hi Oystein. The decoupling is in the rubber so any hard object would do the trick. Something as simple as a coin could do 😌 //Christopher.
@@dynaudio OK. It would be quite easy to test out the coin trick. I will look into it.
@@dynaudio I tried the coin trick, and it did not make the sound any better. Lot of smear. I bought Auralex Gramma V2 and put my speakers on top of them, and now they work fenomenaly. My floor is too soft for the built in feet, so I had to do more to get the most out of my speakers. But now the sound is better than ever.
@Fat Rat The solution I have already found can't be beat.... Auralex Gramma V2 makes wonders of the Dali Evoke 50. Finally I can hear single bass tones cleanly.... I could not do that before.
@Fat Rat Yes, having a concrete block, or some hard stone block under the speakers could also do the trick. My solution is quite conveniet since the pad is quite light. An other alternative could be isoacoustics gaia series feet which also isolates speakers from the surface that they stand on, but at three times the cost of my solution.
Fun fact: When Otto isn’t busy at Dynaudio he is touring with his band Imagine Dragons 🤣
Just kidding, but scrolling through the videos it did look like Dan Reynolds was giving audio advice 😊
Has anyone used play sand here. If so did it work fine.
Yes. Perfect
What about using silicone elastomer with zinc or lead powder added? Used it regularly for radiation shielding in nuclear power plants. Plus you will never have a powder leak!
Also, after working with lead powder for 6-months, my lead blood count was lower than when first arrived in Chicago. When used by itself the density of silicone elastomer is 80-pounds per square foot. We would add lead powder for a 150-pound density. Plenty enough for speaker stands. Dow-Corning was the manufacturer...if you can get any.
If your blindfolded can you hear the difference ?
Red shirt guy staring into camera is very off putting.
This is very good information but presented in one of the most awkward interview-style formats.
Agree, the info is invaluable, however, the length of time the host stares into the camera is off putting and should not occur.
Some people say place it as close to the wall as possible to decrease bass frequencies. Some say put it around 1/5 distance from the wall. Why are different people saying different things?
For "normal" stereo speakers? Who is saying that they should be right up against the wall?
Gad these Danes are a dour lot. Can't imagine these guys being wild party boys.
Intro was quite loud. Perhaps they need better monitor stands to hear that.
The main reason for stands is to get the tweeter at ear height when sat down for better imaging.
Alex Tomlins id go with the mentioned, the luxury of being able to move the speaker around, and away from side/back walls to get better imaging, manufacturers design and build stands to approx 60cm 2nd, to accommodate a rough ideal speaker height once in position. 👍🏻
Alex Tomlins but jeeze! Screwing holes in your speakers! Then it got worse! Put a brick on top of it🤔😐.
Can only watch these very helpful videos with tape on the screen to block out that creepy man! STOP LOOKING AT ME!!
Spikes in carpet, dampening in hard surfaces.
Wood is the best.
If you have floor speakers, rather than bookshelf speakers, and you don't have a whole lot of money (me included) put a phonebook under each of your speakers. Costs nothing and it improves the sound.
That would look tacky
Trouble with all of this is that you’ve got to get approval from girlfriend / wife who invariably hate the sight / position of speakers. You’re looking for perfection they think you’re talking petit nonsense
Remember guys, size matters!
Lead is toxic and not RoHS compliant, I am surprised that Dynaudio recommend it.
You are absolutely right - it was a slip of the tongue. You see the lead thing is an old hi-fi tip that's been around for too long. We would recommend steel, not lead. Thanks for pointing this out! //Otto
Thanks Otto, these videos are interesting and are helping me to get the best out of my sound system.
Thanks you 😊 You've made our day!
Don't fill with sand, fill with mercury!
@surfitlive I'll ring up Area 51 and see if they have any laying around. Preferably some glowing green shit like the cartoons.
Good info, but I simply refuse to pay $400-$1000 for a pair of monopod or tripod stands. Having been a drummer my entire life, I know good quality stands that isolate resonance and stay-put can be manufactured for much cheaper than some of these “premium” pieces of welded pipe with spikes and rubber.
MJ, meet another MJ. Ordered a pair of 80-cm stands from China for $271-shipped. Have never seen better for much much more! They are titled audio scaffolding.
@@happydogg312 long time since my original post. I have to say…the cheaper, heavy stands are serving me well. Filled with sand and use that isolation putty (forget what it’s called) between the speaker and stand. If I used higher quality stands…sure…might ink out maybe 1-2% better fidelity, but not sure it wouldn’t be an exercise in diminishing returns.
@@happydogg312 you’ll enjoy those farrrrr better than of you had sprung for $1200 in stands. No discernible difference and honestly could be better than those. That self-satisfaction though…
Given lead is rather toxic, I personally would be avoiding its use.
So, true! See our pinned comment above 👆//Christopher.
@Steven Turner the dust and any contact with the material is highly toxic
Floorstanders take up the same space and actually have some bass. Standmount speakers are like half a speaker, but at the full price. Don't get fooled.
In a smaller room, the additional bass that a floor-standing speaker provides, is usually not necessary. Floor-standing speakers can be too boomy for a smaller room, as the room itself will already emphasize the bass. That’s where bookshelf speakers come in play.
Stop looking at the camera!!
Not meaning rudeness, but the phrase would be two different "schools of thought."
So true. A slip of the tongue. Albeit several slips 🙃 I hope you enjoyed the video, though. //Christopher.
Most normal people tolerate little mistakes when someone is talking in what is to them, a foreign language. So actually, you're probably not being rude, just very picky.
Screw stands... bookshelf speakers go on bookshelves 🤪
Roobish! I dont ave no bukshelfs cos I dont ave no buks! I'mm ilitttttterate! KO?
The difference is in the bank balance
You know what makes speakers sound better? Not using cheap 10$ crossovers ...even in the special 40
Agreed. Fortunately we didn't.
Wrong...wrong....concrete bounces and resonates just like wood...you should watch Townshend Audio video on their speaker stands...put a seismograph on a speaker ,on a concrete floor. It will still resonate
Yes, you're somewhat right. Wood still resonates more than concrete, but you know, it really depends on "your religion" in this case. // All the best, Lilli