Check out Instant Gaming for some great deals on Total War products. www.instant-gaming.com/igr/legendoftotalwar/ Remember to check if the key is region locked before purchasing!
I just managet to get a great deal on Warhammer 1 Dark Gods Edition! Thanks the tip on IG. I never played a Total War game before playing WH3. Since the patching is so slow I'm going to give Mortal empires a try.
Funnily enough there's actually 3 factions that giants are quite decent against (Khorne, Nurgle and Slaanesh) and 4 factions (5 if you count the Legion of Chaos) where giants suck (Kislev, Tzeentch, Cathay and other Ogres). So recruiting giants if you only face the melee factions can actually work. It's high time that all giants of all factions get a big speed buff - it doesn't make any sense that a giant who is 10-20 meters tall can't run at least as quick as a horse. Yes, his mivements are slower, but just because a mouse can move its legs faster it's still not capable to outrun a dog. Giants should be at least at speed 60.
Every time Legend rants about Giants i have to think about the guy who sent in his "Doomstack" consisting of 19 Giants and just called each of them Mammoth. What a Legend
I absolutely loved that mammoth doomstack, and how it still failed compared to real mammoths. It was trolling done at such a high level that even legend secretly laughed his ass of most likely.
You know there’s gotta be like one particular designer at CA who loves giants and keeps putting them in rosters, and the other guys just nod and smile and tolerate it.
@@Calimbandil87 But in tabletop they are not that shit if I recall correctly. The biggest difference is the speed, on table top they are reasonably fast. If they had more speed they would be kind of okay. Or give them bigger splash dmg, 6 is simply not enough considering how vulnerable they are.
@@Debilinside I played with them a bit for my Hordes of Chaos army in 6th and my Orcs and gobbos in 8th. Mostly because I got them cheap and they cost a lot of points so for a poor student they made for an economic choice. In my opinion they were a wildcard, never reliable in the slightest due to their lack of protection. But once in a while the opponent fumbles his leadership roll against terror and half his army goes running off. They were also decently fast. Armored cav usually had M7, Giants had M6, Infantry M5 as comparisons. So better in tabletop, but not something I'd call great. At least not if the enemy had good ranged units. Them falling over in death and squashing a general always made me laugh though.
@@Debilinside Biggest tabletop differences are lower number of models, no firing into melee, smaller battlefields and disengaging being more dangerous. Lower unit numbers mean that a giant will be fighting a block of 20-30 infantry with 5-10 attacking at once rather than 100+ and it won't be getting shot while it's fighting. Smaller battlefields means that ranged units get shut down earlier and it's harder to avoid engaging with a unit like a giant. Then once a giant gets an engagement with, say, a lord or monster, that lord or monster has a harder time turning and running away without losing a lot of value. In TWW a dragon can just charge a giant then turn and run with no consequence.
Definitely agree that ogre giants are still suboptimal. But because ogres have access to healing (which is tied to % of base HP), their giants are less bad than other giants.
@@willc1294 all the large monstrous units feel so underpowered when fighting infantry like the animations are cool but to see abunch of dudes get back up from a giant club the size of a trailer doesnt leave some units incapacitated on the ground for longer keeping them out of the fight rather than just being like "cool i just flew up like 10 feet and im totally fine to get back up"
@@zach942 They need support and then they can truly shine. A single unit of stone trolls won't do much but two units of stone trolls can work together really well, making alot of use of regen and making them less likely to route as the damage is spread out. They work well with infantry too.
You know what I think would be funny? A giant tier list. You compare all the giants and units with similar builds, such as cygors and Terracotta sentinels. Good opportunity to explain why regular giants are bad, yet other units with a similar sized and shaped model are good.
it's as he said. giant is a big slow target, which usually end up dead before they reach the enemy lines. if it's made faster/can take more hits is moved way down the tier list/ upkeep reduced, it would be more viable.
I pre-ordered WH3 just to get Ogres (my lord) so they were my first campaign. I like to think I'm okay at these games, been playing Total War since Medieval 1 as a wee lad and always played WH2 on VH/VH and even with all the annoying crap on release (Realms of Chaos being frustrating, sluggish infantry response, etc), Ogres were just absurdly strong. I didn't play MP but when CA released that vlog about balancing issues and Ogres had something like a 65% win rate I was like "yeah." Leadbelchers are also ridiculously strong in any field battles, I always run 4-6. They're essentially walking Organ Guns. Compared to proper artillery their range is low, but they outrange most missile infantry and do a lot more damage than Ushabti Great Bows as a comparison. Stonehorns are particularly good because they hit super hard, but jump around like Carnosaurs or Tomb Scorpions so it's relatively easy to disengage. I feel like Ogres probably need a bit of a nerf but they're so fun.
In campaign I don't see the need for a nerf, their campaign is pretty balanced. No super op mechanics. And their whole roster can be used efficiently. If anything they should be the blueprint for future races in my opinion
I was sad to see how bad lead belchers were against single entities tbh. I expected then to town right delete a ragnarok spider the other day and it took them pretty much the entire battle to do it
@@Laucron I believe it's because they don't actually shoot cannonballs like a normal WH cannon, but rather just a lot of metal scrap. So it's something like a grapeshot instead, which is always much better against loads of infantry.
yeah, it always bugs me that a giant humanoid would be slower than tiny humanoid. Giants should be as fast as a horse. I can see maybe giants running out of stamina faster or something though. But not just slow.
Giants are pretty good already ngl. Not insane but average b tier i would say. The problem with the giants is they shine against infantry, and whenever you face braindead AI that just blobs up you would rather use magic instead of a giant. If they ever developed intelligent AI that uses tactics and strategy giants would get a much different rating.
And I cannot tell you how happy that makes me. I have been waiting for ogres since game 1. I played ogres back in 8th edition tabletop. And after seeing the weaknesses of monstrous infantry in the previous games as well as them being the preorder bonus, I was worried. But they perfectly captured the feel and flavor of ogres, and as you said gave them a really balanced list. Literally my only complaint is that, as someone who played TT and is a bit of a purist, I'd like leadbelchers to at least have a shotgun mode to go with their solid shot they currently have. We have VC hand cannons ans, grudge rakers, and iron hail gunners. So it isn't like thwy lack the tech for a close range shotgun style unit.
I agree that giants usually aren't good, but I can't help but recruit one or two of them in my army. They're like army enhancers - my army of orcs, beasts, or ogres just look way more aesthetically pleasing with a giant or two amidst their ranks. And assuming they're able to get into melee combat (which in ogres they usually are as ogres have good flanking power to stop ranged units as well as good healing magic that heals based on percentage), they do pretty damn solid. If my lord is ever dueling their lord and the giant comes in, it's usually a one sided curb stomp, and if the opponent's elite infantry/cav get mucked up with my units, I can send my giant into that fight and he starts dropping models per swing.
yeah, it always bugs me that a giant humanoid would be slower than tiny humanoid. Giants should be as fast as a horse. I can see maybe giants running out of stamina faster or something though. But not just slow.
I definitely agree with this tier list, though I’d rate the ironfists a bit higher because blocking projectiles is always nice, especially since you will probably fight projectile heavy factions like Cathay and Kislev. Also, I REALLY want to like giants, but even on easy or normal difficulty, they are terrible. I have never seen a giant get more than 30 kills in a battle. Stonehorns just perform SO MUCH BETTER
Justice for leadbelchers! At tier 3 they are amazing value relative to the Ironblasters. Stonehorns I like, but since hunters came off of rift duty worth saying that hunters absolutely replace them. Crushers otoh, yeah they are good but cheaper units can do what they do for less money, so meh.
Good list, basically agree on everything. Only problem is, most of the reason the list is so uniform is because there are only really about half or a third that many units, and the roster is all slightly different variants.
Ironically enough, i found Ogre Giants to do quite well on the new siege maps of Warhammer 3... when deployed against Daemons of Chaos (minus Tzeentch units, obviously.) On some siege maps, as defender, the sheer mass and raw power of a Giant makes it very deadly on defensive chokepoints - even Khorne units don't get an easy pass if they are trying to go through a line of a single Gobbos, Ogre Bulls and a Giant. Granted, it's still very much a trash unit when confronted to anything remotely equipped with ranged weaponry and it's sucks ass on field battles. But considering the overwhelming presence of siege battles in warhammer 3... well... it's passable.
I hate that CA balances around multiplayer, because gorgers are a favourite unit of mine so it's annoying that they got nerfed because a bunch of sweaty mp players said they needed to be nerfed.
They placate Multi-player players even though they are the vast minority. Because MP are usually the TH-camers that creat content for TWW games. So if they are not pleased with the game. Even though the campaign is super fun and lore freindly. The MP TH-camrs will just pump out content saying how the game is unbalanced blah blah blah. Even though it's just their suoer competitive game mode that is balanced to high heavens. They don't seperate the game modes because most players would flock to IE rather than MP. This would also cause the MP player base to start uploading videos crapping on Warhammer because their precious game mode has lost the majority of it's player base to IE because their game mode isn't perceived as fun as IE (Even though that is because they made MP that way in the first place)
The legends of the Sky-Giants are really interesting. I hope they do more with the Lost Sky Titan Castle, or the modding community makes Sons of the Mountian playable.
In my case I couldn't find much value for the scraplaunchers since they couldn't hit for shit. Dwarves got too good at dodging incoming artillery, apparently
Gorgers into A or S -- hear me out... they make great cheese Recently finished the Ogre campaign... they are the most easily exploitable race - found all of these on my first play through: * Spamming camps for almost instant armies/reinforcements if you have a good enough economy * Early stalk armies of gorgers and (sabertusk + hunters) + Stone Shaker easily capture major settlements as long as the enemy has less than 1/2 stack of reinforcements (You can blow open the wall, until they see your hidden forces they will act like they don't exist... even with points captured) * Stone Shaker can also destroy barricades with a little finagling if your gorgers are a little late to the capture point * Stone Shaker can also be used offensively as long as you can see the units. Not a ton of damage, but if they aren't attacking then ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ How'd I use them? Have my ally who is in #1 help me kill my #3 enemy... right before they were dead, set up a lord next to each of their major settlements - each recruiting 2 gorgers. Have the #2 guy declare war on the #1 guy with me... take the gorgers and occupy every one of their major settlements... no more T5 unit recruitment. Then I went and repeated the play on the #2 guy. It turns out turning the enemy's region into swiss cheese turn 1 of the war sets them back a bit - all that was required was technically 1 gorger per army (or sabertusk with a hunter) and a trivial bit of knowledge of which side is best to place them on for each of the settlements. Start the major settlement battle, gorgers on one end, rest of the units chilling out on the other outside of tower range. Blast a hole for the gorgers, take a point, walk out, then go get a sandwich or something. If you need the enemy to move a bit, move your army toward the wall a bit, the rest of their army should try to defend the wall (exception is if they have enough units to disperse across the city -- usually becomes trouble with garrison + half stack or more).
It's actually fun to see your opinion evolving and changing after several hours of play. I remember you saying the Ogres were starting on a bad track since they're only Monstrous Infantry. Then again, you also thought Khorne was gonna be bad due to no Magic/Range. Great and helpful analysis, as always.
Would love to play ogres but can't push myself to play warhammer again until atleast blood I know some people will say that's stupid but several of my friends feel the same
Really strong roster. I wonder how it compares with the high elven roster fo WH2, especially if we consider that many of those melee units might be somewhat better in inmortal empires due to melee balance.
I feel like HE will be a rough matchup for ogres. They are like cathay but shore up cathays weaknesses. Thay have many low and moderately armored but high skill and high leadership spears, and really good shooting that, while not AP, is generally more accurate and seeing as ogres are fairly low armor the AP is less needed. HE have pretty good monsters, but given the anti large capabilities of OK, i don't see that performing as well as massed efficient infantry.
Scrap launchers are not an S tier IMO. Most of the time the AI just dodges their single shot, even if it's a clusters type projectile and even if you aim them at point-blank they start getting derpy and doing their shoot animation without ever actually shooting. I find that they're somewhat useful when the enemy missile troops start shooting and they standstill, but actually when that happens iron blasters do much more damage because their projectiles kinda ricochet and also hit the enemy backlines if they clump their missiles.
Ogres stacking the boommaker big name can make a really good doomstack, what I do is 6 hunters with stonehorn (harpoon launcher for default) mount and that big name, one butcher for healing and 3 ironblasters and 9 Leadbelchers. The lord should be Tyrant because they can have that big name too. The best is that with enough preparations you can have the doomstack open and running as soon as turn 30ish. At least that's my strategy for the realm of chaos. Love the content.
My experience with some units was very different. Also playing on L/VH - Crushers, too expensive to ever recruit. Leadbelchers, very strong and easy S-tier, even without multiple hunters to boost them. Can sweep away massive hordes of infantry and snipe down single entities with ease. Ironblaster, much weaker now that it was changed in 1.1 to be a big shotgun. Needs to be constantly relocated to hit anything, and it's fairly slow. Also much weaker against towers nin 1.1, I think it's A or even B now. Scraplauncher, only useful against infantry. But, leadbelchers delete infantry faster and much more reliably. I'd put it A or even B due to redundancy.
I agree , Leadbelchers are the core of my armies and I was surprised they were not S tier. I do not think of them as artillery but rather normal rifles with excellent range. Few stonehorns to stop anything getting too close and its game over for pretty much everything.
Recruit hunters with the boommaker trait, and run them with the iron blasters. Trust me the iron blasters are still good. I have 5 ironblasters with 12 hunters, at 5.7k damage per shot, they'll obliterate just about anything.
@@Ba11leFieldAce Captain obvious, read what op said. After finishing both vh Ogre campain Ironblasters got nerfed badly. You can make them extra strong snipers with boommaker but they are missing shogun effect which made them OP. Having 3 or 4 them is always good but they are not doomstack material.
Wow, that Dawn of War deal is amazing. If you play the game for a couple hours it was still worth it and I spent so many hours playing 1 and 2 over the years. Giants are really good vs Nurgle and pretty good vs khorne and slaanesh. Terrible vs Kislev, cathay, and the mirror. I think trappers are S tier. The amount of work they can do for the cost is impressive. Two full stacks of trappers cost less than one decent army and are sneaky as hell.
I told myself I wasnt going to TWW3 until I completely wiped out all other races on every one of my ME campaigns for each race. I probably have a good 500 hours left of TWW2 lol. Luckily I also have something like 250 mods...
Ironfist maneaters with a beast wizard are disgustingly strong. I love that unit. Personally, I will say ai prefer ironfist bulls in the early to mid game over ironguts or regular bulls. I think the extra little bit of armor, missile block chance, and sizable MD increase make them pretty massively more durable than the basic bulls. And they are just vastly more cost effective than the somewhat expensive ironguts, and depending on how much ap missile fire the enemy has, they can even be more durable due to that shield. They are also more efficiently buffed by a beast wizard. That is just my 2 cents though. Be thwy mournfang, crusher, bull or maneater, when in doubt, ironfist. All ogres do a lot of damage, but defense is their weak point. Shoring it up makes them trade much more efficiently.
Personally I find mournfang great weapons to be S tier. They're way more cost effective than crushers and I find that ogres lack early anti large so they come into armies at a good time.
Gnoblars are my favorite crapstack in WHIII for the same reason Sneaky Gits are my favorite crapstack in WHII. Having a bunch of little green dudes running around yelling the meme-iest of war cries poking unsuspecting humies with pointy murder sticks and throwing little choppas around is just *chef's kiss* The fact that you can make them unbreakable when their lord has "Gnoblar Kicker" as a big name is just the cherry on top.
The shielded Maneaters and GW Crushers should probably be S tier if you're not putting Leadbelchers in your armies. About the only way either of them will see significant casualties even on VH battle difficulty.
I've been really surprised by how much Crushers (GW) can achieve. On top of being giga tanky, they just dismantle any large unit in melee : cavalry, monsters, single entity, all get dunked. And they roll over infantry too...
At first I was pretty disappointed with the Leadbelcher's performance, then they started getting Chevron's and I REALLY felt the power level and individual performance spike hard. Chevron 4 Leadbelcher's are when they start to perform and Chevron 9 Leadbelcher's are absolute laser beams with just as much melting power. The only problem I have with them is how they tend to knock over man sized single entities, and as we know a target that's fallen over is completely immune to any and all damage. Anyway they tend to not actually deal a tonne of damage to man sized single entities because they stunlock them on the ground permanently which is useful in it's own right.
I feel like Gorgers dont have a place in the roster at the moment. Too squishy and too little damage. Either pump up damage and keep lower entities so they die quick but deal damage, or lower damage still, but make them beefier so they hold the line. The stalk they have isnt that impactful enough to keep in an army in my opinion.
I think they should be high damage and I think they should increase their speed. I was surprised to find that these lean ravenous monsters had the same 54 speed as heavily armoured obese ironguts. If the had like 70 or 75 speed they could be like a replacement for sabretusks, and actually have a niche.
B tier is super generous because there isn't really a role for Gorgers where you take them over another unit. I'm sure there are many worse units in the game, but in this roster, there is only Giants.
They still got stalk i supose, thats strong if used well but ye could just use lions w a hunter giving those stalk and frenzy; and their even faster and super cheap.
On my current VH VH Domination Campaign I'm on turn 150+ and still steamrolling with Ironguts and Leadbelchers. Cheap, easy to recruit and a lot of power for the cost. I never bothered to upgrade to Maneaters and Ironblasters.
Dark Crusade was great, was disappointed when Soulstorm made the buildings reset every time so you might as well just rush the enemy base with your honour guard...
globnar trappers are what i have always in my camps as crapstacks because u can make them completly free and they pay for themselves when camp comes under attack
Nice shout out to the dawn of war franchise its such a classic set of games! especially the original set leading up to Soulstorm...well.....maybe not Soulstorm... Dark crusade! Dark crusade instead! in all seriousness though I do hope someone somewhere decides to have another bash at a dawn of war 4 or something akin to those games. Keep up the cheese covered content my guy!! :)
@@dr.vanilla9017 They're fucking great flankers honestly for when you need that extra support in the mid-game. Found that I could still run my early game units while on a budget because of my 4 sabertusks with my Mournfangs just anvil and hammering the Cathayans.
Dam wasn't prepared for the dawn of war thing but completly agree playing THE BOYZ right now and it's a blast also aged rather well in terms of of looks, just be prepared unit pathing is a bit wonkie(but i guess we're used too it) and changing hotkeys is only a thing trough a txt file
Ogre roster is definitely quality, I'll give CA that, whichever team made them. Tbh seems like it was not the main team, because of their high quality (and tendency to be op). Meanwhile demon races struggle with their large units constantly. Soul grinders only gamechangers in great numbers, greater demons kinda underperforming, Khorne minotaurs being weaker than regular ones in WH2, Beast of Nurgle and rotflies being mostly useless other than acting as roadbumps, Chaos Spawn variants being similarly weak to WH2 etc. All in all it feels like Chaos demons got a massive nerfhammer to begin with to fit within the expected constraints of the game. Maybe CA thought their admittedly op (when and if its working properly, unlike Slaanesh or Daniel's itemization) campaign mechanics will make up for it or Idk. The only other race imo with similar battle quality to Ogres is Kislev, which is why these 'needed' the biggest nerfs, and dominate(d) pvp, too. (Yes yes, pendulum and protoss shields are/were both op, but thats rather the result of poor testing rather than any foresight.)
I was thinking this for so long seems the ogre’s roster is damn near perfect and fleshed out the daemons roster seems to lackluster for lack of units or laziness hard to tell I think Khorne or Tzeencht are pretty good though maybe like one or two units would’ve made it a lot better but it’s fine Nurgle and slannesh however 🤮
If the Dawi Zharr have siege giants they better be as fast as as their infantry. If they get shot to puedes before they reach the main gates there’s no reason to bring them.
I have a feeling CA will not want to spend the money on new Guant animations to keep them lore friendly. Otherwise Giants would be some of the most chaotic, but powerful units in a Factions roster. The only thing I think they should add to giants is rampage. So make giants have sprint animations. Give some army Factions like Chaos Dawi and WoC armor variants of giants. BOOM!!!! Giants are now TRULLY viable in campaign
Can someone please put a clunk of metal on the giant, its already slow so putting armor on it would make sense. I hope Nippon would make giants great 🤣
Knoblar x6, knoblar trapper x4, rest ogre bulls with a hero of choice (whatever is available) is basically my emergency stack for defense. Its cheap and the bulls do get shit done.
The thing I've noticed is that there's a tendency for the tier 1 Ogre roster to fall short in mid to late game, right around the time I'm JUUUUST about to get tier 4 stuff. There's a bit of a gap there where if Cathay or whoever decides to start sending armies at me it really really sucks because they have so many units that fire in arcs and/or fly, so defensive battles (camps or settlements) get very very messy. I've had some success with ranged gnoblars flanking but that can also get messy, just a bit less so. I guess as Kairos and Greasus you just have to kill Cathay early...? As Kairos do you end up getting mauled by the armies constantly spawning to attack the Great Bastion? And did the Ironblaster nerf really not matter much?
in my personal experience Kairos doesn't really get issues with the armies spawning to attack the great bastion. even on times when I've declared war on them they've just kind of ignored me to attack the Bastion, gotten wiped out, and then respawned no longer at war with me. if I take down the Bastion gates they just go through the broken gates to attack Cathay.
Crushers should be S-Tier as they can be completely unstoppable in campaign. Also biased they became my favorite unit of Game III after my Ogres Campaign.
What I wondered... monsterous infantry in general in WH2 is pretty garbage. looking at kroxigors or rat ogres for example. what makes the ogres so much better?
Collision damage, high health/low model count, and Ogre charge all work together to make them very effective against basically anything that isn't top tier halberd style infantry. They are *very* scary.
Numbers mostly, also rat ogres are squishy and have low leadership, kroxigors are okay but the rest of the lizardmen roster makes them sort of redundant. Also the ogre faction is built around monstrous units using their %-based heals and the buffs. There may also be mechanical buffs to monsters in this game as opposed to wh2 I'm not sure, but iirc there were excellent monsters in wh2 as well, like minotaurs for example; particularly post-rework
In the end game I did a mix of the most expensive units, (like 2 of each) and they turn to be pretty much the same (bull ogres) but the ones who did a good job were the pirates with the gun. I also did a doomstack of lions with the hunter (I have the game in spanish so correct me if Im wrong) and boosted them, it was actually pretty fun, you can do lots of stuff with them, but they are very squishy
they were affected by either a bug or broken behaviour, they rampage at the drop of a hat at random it feels like, and then never come out of it. so often i'd have mine just chilling at the edge of the map after chasing a router. when they weren't doing that though, i found them to be pretty good, and even better with a leveled up hunter in an army.
I love the ogre kingdoms tematic but, somehow I find the "meat" resourse very frustrating. If you dont have a camp you need a tier 3 base with a building that cuts down the entire provence gold income by half. The easiest way to get meat is by "land battles" and I have realized that most of my battles are low tier towns and for some reason DA doenst allow you to collect meat from them. Do u guys have a good trick or better tactic to manage the meat?
I like to build a camp and build meat buildings stack up my meat to the max which is 300 and you should be fine after that add a new camp every now and then, then continue to go out
Read carefully. The meat building reduces -region- income by 50%. So only that one settlement. Put your $ buildings in the other settlements of the province
I never had any problems with meat in my recent ogre campaign, if I had to guess it's that you aren't playing aggressive enough as thats the main way you get it. or perhaps your camp placement is weird? i just kind of plopped them down near a few settlements I was about to attack and that supplemented my armies enough that I always seem to have 200+ meat. My armies spent very little time in my own territory.
@@goat369 the camps do, OP was referring to the settlements. And yeah the strat that worked for me was hang out in camp radius for a bit, always making forward camps when possible, maxing out your foods is ez
So nice to know that despite the volatile state of total war and the world around us changing for the worse, we can always take comfort in the knowledge that giants will always be shit. :)
For a split second I thought Legend was going to say something good about the giant. Then my dreams dashed as we came back to reality, nevermind, poor giants 😢
My only real complaint with the ogre roster currently in the game is that ironguts are a tier 3 unit that get overshadowed by all of the maneater units. When reading up on ogre kingdoms units years before warhammer 3 i always thought that the ironguts would be the best ogre infantry in their roster while maneaters would be the mid tier infantry that are upgrades to the basic bulls. It's just weird that the ogres who are supposed to be the body guards of ogre tyrants and the best equipped in a tribe are so low performing compared to maneaters.
Now that I think about it Isn't it a bit too soon to make tiers list ranting units roaster ? Especially since we didn't even know what will change or get add in the future ? (Love the one bird, doomstack :p )
Multiplayer will make sure ogres, and tzeetnch get nerfed again. Oh, and I do like what they did with mass in WH3. Not having my big monsters get stuck in infantry is refreshing.
Check out Instant Gaming for some great deals on Total War products. www.instant-gaming.com/igr/legendoftotalwar/ Remember to check if the key is region locked before purchasing!
:D was nice to hear you just as much of a dark crusade fan, as I am
I just managet to get a great deal on Warhammer 1 Dark Gods Edition! Thanks the tip on IG. I never played a Total War game before playing WH3. Since the patching is so slow I'm going to give Mortal empires a try.
Funnily enough there's actually 3 factions that giants are quite decent against (Khorne, Nurgle and Slaanesh) and 4 factions (5 if you count the Legion of Chaos) where giants suck (Kislev, Tzeentch, Cathay and other Ogres). So recruiting giants if you only face the melee factions can actually work.
It's high time that all giants of all factions get a big speed buff - it doesn't make any sense that a giant who is 10-20 meters tall can't run at least as quick as a horse. Yes, his mivements are slower, but just because a mouse can move its legs faster it's still not capable to outrun a dog. Giants should be at least at speed 60.
Legend you should do an S tear tear list, rank all of them units you’ve given an S
Thanks for the highlight. I got Dawn of War thanks to this. Now I have something to play while I wait for immortal empires
Every time Legend rants about Giants i have to think about the guy who sent in his "Doomstack" consisting of 19 Giants and just called each of them Mammoth. What a Legend
A man of culture I see
I absolutely loved that mammoth doomstack, and how it still failed compared to real mammoths. It was trolling done at such a high level that even legend secretly laughed his ass of most likely.
Must. Find.
Same! Lol
@@OklaZonie i found the video, it's titled "why my "war mammoth" not working". its got Elon Musk in the Thumbnail, i hope this helps!
We definitely need a giant tier list
Yes! Let's do it! There's like what? At least 5 of them by now? :D
@@nobady9752 yo but if we count gorgons and cygors we have like 7 or something
@@reddude954 nah both of those are way better
Wait for the chaos dwarfs and then absolutely we need a giant tier list
eh, all giants are basically the same
just like chaos spawns and furies more or less have the same performance regardless of which variant you look at
You know there’s gotta be like one particular designer at CA who loves giants and keeps putting them in rosters, and the other guys just nod and smile and tolerate it.
More like they had to follow the original GW rosters and for some reason something like a third of all factions got giants in WHFB
@@Calimbandil87 But in tabletop they are not that shit if I recall correctly. The biggest difference is the speed, on table top they are reasonably fast. If they had more speed they would be kind of okay. Or give them bigger splash dmg, 6 is simply not enough considering how vulnerable they are.
Guy designing giants vs Guy designing chaos spawn and forsaken.
@@Debilinside I played with them a bit for my Hordes of Chaos army in 6th and my Orcs and gobbos in 8th. Mostly because I got them cheap and they cost a lot of points so for a poor student they made for an economic choice. In my opinion they were a wildcard, never reliable in the slightest due to their lack of protection. But once in a while the opponent fumbles his leadership roll against terror and half his army goes running off. They were also decently fast. Armored cav usually had M7, Giants had M6, Infantry M5 as comparisons.
So better in tabletop, but not something I'd call great. At least not if the enemy had good ranged units. Them falling over in death and squashing a general always made me laugh though.
@@Debilinside Biggest tabletop differences are lower number of models, no firing into melee, smaller battlefields and disengaging being more dangerous.
Lower unit numbers mean that a giant will be fighting a block of 20-30 infantry with 5-10 attacking at once rather than 100+ and it won't be getting shot while it's fighting.
Smaller battlefields means that ranged units get shut down earlier and it's harder to avoid engaging with a unit like a giant. Then once a giant gets an engagement with, say, a lord or monster, that lord or monster has a harder time turning and running away without losing a lot of value. In TWW a dragon can just charge a giant then turn and run with no consequence.
Definitely agree that ogre giants are still suboptimal. But because ogres have access to healing (which is tied to % of base HP), their giants are less bad than other giants.
I like them as lord/hero killers in my armies led by slaughtermasters
And free giants are not useless ha ha ha
kinda like saying human shit doesn't stink quite as much as dogshit though ;)
@@willc1294 all the large monstrous units feel so underpowered when fighting infantry like the animations are cool but to see abunch of dudes get back up from a giant club the size of a trailer doesnt leave some units incapacitated on the ground for longer keeping them out of the fight rather than just being like "cool i just flew up like 10 feet and im totally fine to get back up"
@@zach942 They need support and then they can truly shine. A single unit of stone trolls won't do much but two units of stone trolls can work together really well, making alot of use of regen and making them less likely to route as the damage is spread out. They work well with infantry too.
You know what I think would be funny? A giant tier list. You compare all the giants and units with similar builds, such as cygors and Terracotta sentinels. Good opportunity to explain why regular giants are bad, yet other units with a similar sized and shaped model are good.
it's as he said. giant is a big slow target, which usually end up dead before they reach the enemy lines. if it's made faster/can take more hits is moved way down the tier list/ upkeep reduced, it would be more viable.
Beastmen giant is best giant by virtue of having movement bonuses ;7
@@pierre-mariecaulliez6285 and they are Free :D, so yeas, Beastmen buff is so good that even a giant is a dangerous enemy in the roster 😂
rogue idol wins. oh shit we're also counting heirotitans huh? bipedal single unit big monster tier list
I pre-ordered WH3 just to get Ogres (my lord) so they were my first campaign. I like to think I'm okay at these games, been playing Total War since Medieval 1 as a wee lad and always played WH2 on VH/VH and even with all the annoying crap on release (Realms of Chaos being frustrating, sluggish infantry response, etc), Ogres were just absurdly strong. I didn't play MP but when CA released that vlog about balancing issues and Ogres had something like a 65% win rate I was like "yeah."
Leadbelchers are also ridiculously strong in any field battles, I always run 4-6. They're essentially walking Organ Guns. Compared to proper artillery their range is low, but they outrange most missile infantry and do a lot more damage than Ushabti Great Bows as a comparison. Stonehorns are particularly good because they hit super hard, but jump around like Carnosaurs or Tomb Scorpions so it's relatively easy to disengage. I feel like Ogres probably need a bit of a nerf but they're so fun.
In campaign I don't see the need for a nerf, their campaign is pretty balanced. No super op mechanics. And their whole roster can be used efficiently. If anything they should be the blueprint for future races in my opinion
I was sad to see how bad lead belchers were against single entities tbh. I expected then to town right delete a ragnarok spider the other day and it took them pretty much the entire battle to do it
@@Laucron I believe it's because they don't actually shoot cannonballs like a normal WH cannon, but rather just a lot of metal scrap. So it's something like a grapeshot instead, which is always much better against loads of infantry.
There is no reasoning for giants being so slow. They could have 60 speed easily.
yeah, it always bugs me that a giant humanoid would be slower than tiny humanoid. Giants should be as fast as a horse. I can see maybe giants running out of stamina faster or something though. But not just slow.
60 speed giants would make them so much more effective, they would actually be able to make it to combat alive
Giants are pretty good already ngl. Not insane but average b tier i would say. The problem with the giants is they shine against infantry, and whenever you face braindead AI that just blobs up you would rather use magic instead of a giant. If they ever developed intelligent AI that uses tactics and strategy giants would get a much different rating.
In the lore giants are very dumb, very slow. The ironic trade of unbelirvable strengh for abysmal intellect. To me it makes sense somehow.
@@pianospeedrun Plenty of animals are dumbasses but will still Charge you faster than a Truck.
Ogres are the best designed army roster in wh3, except for the Giant Every unit is viable and fun to use
And I cannot tell you how happy that makes me. I have been waiting for ogres since game 1. I played ogres back in 8th edition tabletop. And after seeing the weaknesses of monstrous infantry in the previous games as well as them being the preorder bonus, I was worried. But they perfectly captured the feel and flavor of ogres, and as you said gave them a really balanced list. Literally my only complaint is that, as someone who played TT and is a bit of a purist, I'd like leadbelchers to at least have a shotgun mode to go with their solid shot they currently have. We have VC hand cannons ans, grudge rakers, and iron hail gunners. So it isn't like thwy lack the tech for a close range shotgun style unit.
@@sassyviking6003 Heh. It's already a bad enough idea to get that close to an ogre, no reason to make it downright suicidal.
I agree that giants usually aren't good, but I can't help but recruit one or two of them in my army. They're like army enhancers - my army of orcs, beasts, or ogres just look way more aesthetically pleasing with a giant or two amidst their ranks. And assuming they're able to get into melee combat (which in ogres they usually are as ogres have good flanking power to stop ranged units as well as good healing magic that heals based on percentage), they do pretty damn solid. If my lord is ever dueling their lord and the giant comes in, it's usually a one sided curb stomp, and if the opponent's elite infantry/cav get mucked up with my units, I can send my giant into that fight and he starts dropping models per swing.
yeah, it always bugs me that a giant humanoid would be slower than tiny humanoid. Giants should be as fast as a horse. I can see maybe giants running out of stamina faster or something though. But not just slow.
I definitely agree with this tier list, though I’d rate the ironfists a bit higher because blocking projectiles is always nice, especially since you will probably fight projectile heavy factions like Cathay and Kislev.
Also, I REALLY want to like giants, but even on easy or normal difficulty, they are terrible. I have never seen a giant get more than 30 kills in a battle. Stonehorns just perform SO MUCH BETTER
Justice for leadbelchers! At tier 3 they are amazing value relative to the Ironblasters.
Stonehorns I like, but since hunters came off of rift duty worth saying that hunters absolutely replace them.
Crushers otoh, yeah they are good but cheaper units can do what they do for less money, so meh.
Good list, basically agree on everything. Only problem is, most of the reason the list is so uniform is because there are only really about half or a third that many units, and the roster is all slightly different variants.
Ironically enough, i found Ogre Giants to do quite well on the new siege maps of Warhammer 3... when deployed against Daemons of Chaos (minus Tzeentch units, obviously.)
On some siege maps, as defender, the sheer mass and raw power of a Giant makes it very deadly on defensive chokepoints - even Khorne units don't get an easy pass if they are trying to go through a line of a single Gobbos, Ogre Bulls and a Giant.
Granted, it's still very much a trash unit when confronted to anything remotely equipped with ranged weaponry and it's sucks ass on field battles. But considering the overwhelming presence of siege battles in warhammer 3... well... it's passable.
I hate that CA balances around multiplayer, because gorgers are a favourite unit of mine so it's annoying that they got nerfed because a bunch of sweaty mp players said they needed to be nerfed.
They placate Multi-player players even though they are the vast minority. Because MP are usually the TH-camers that creat content for TWW games. So if they are not pleased with the game. Even though the campaign is super fun and lore freindly. The MP TH-camrs will just pump out content saying how the game is unbalanced blah blah blah. Even though it's just their suoer competitive game mode that is balanced to high heavens.
They don't seperate the game modes because most players would flock to IE rather than MP. This would also cause the MP player base to start uploading videos crapping on Warhammer because their precious game mode has lost the majority of it's player base to IE because their game mode isn't perceived as fun as IE (Even though that is because they made MP that way in the first place)
The legends of the Sky-Giants are really interesting. I hope they do more with the Lost Sky Titan Castle, or the modding community makes Sons of the Mountian playable.
Literally started an Ogre campaign today and checked your Channel to see if you did an Ogre Tierlist yet, thanks man!
everytime legend goes on a tirade about giants it brings a wicked smile to my face
In my case I couldn't find much value for the scraplaunchers since they couldn't hit for shit.
Dwarves got too good at dodging incoming artillery, apparently
That's every catapult artillery in 3.
Gorgers into A or S -- hear me out... they make great cheese
Recently finished the Ogre campaign... they are the most easily exploitable race - found all of these on my first play through:
* Spamming camps for almost instant armies/reinforcements if you have a good enough economy
* Early stalk armies of gorgers and (sabertusk + hunters) + Stone Shaker easily capture major settlements as long as the enemy has less than 1/2 stack of reinforcements
(You can blow open the wall, until they see your hidden forces they will act like they don't exist... even with points captured)
* Stone Shaker can also destroy barricades with a little finagling if your gorgers are a little late to the capture point
* Stone Shaker can also be used offensively as long as you can see the units. Not a ton of damage, but if they aren't attacking then ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
How'd I use them? Have my ally who is in #1 help me kill my #3 enemy... right before they were dead, set up a lord next to each of their major settlements - each recruiting 2 gorgers. Have the #2 guy declare war on the #1 guy with me... take the gorgers and occupy every one of their major settlements... no more T5 unit recruitment. Then I went and repeated the play on the #2 guy. It turns out turning the enemy's region into swiss cheese turn 1 of the war sets them back a bit - all that was required was technically 1 gorger per army (or sabertusk with a hunter) and a trivial bit of knowledge of which side is best to place them on for each of the settlements.
Start the major settlement battle, gorgers on one end, rest of the units chilling out on the other outside of tower range. Blast a hole for the gorgers, take a point, walk out, then go get a sandwich or something. If you need the enemy to move a bit, move your army toward the wall a bit, the rest of their army should try to defend the wall (exception is if they have enough units to disperse across the city -- usually becomes trouble with garrison + half stack or more).
Can’t believe that legend put a unit with rampage in A tier and talked so positively about them
It's actually fun to see your opinion evolving and changing after several hours of play. I remember you saying the Ogres were starting on a bad track since they're only Monstrous Infantry. Then again, you also thought Khorne was gonna be bad due to no Magic/Range.
Great and helpful analysis, as always.
Would love to play ogres but can't push myself to play warhammer again until atleast blood I know some people will say that's stupid but several of my friends feel the same
Really strong roster. I wonder how it compares with the high elven roster fo WH2, especially if we consider that many of those melee units might be somewhat better in inmortal empires due to melee balance.
I feel like HE will be a rough matchup for ogres. They are like cathay but shore up cathays weaknesses. Thay have many low and moderately armored but high skill and high leadership spears, and really good shooting that, while not AP, is generally more accurate and seeing as ogres are fairly low armor the AP is less needed. HE have pretty good monsters, but given the anti large capabilities of OK, i don't see that performing as well as massed efficient infantry.
Finally! Been excitedly waiting for this one Legend, thank you Brother!
I love how you can HEAR the thumbnail, instead of reading it.
I really love greasus' voiceline:
Join me! It's not a choice!
Scrap launchers are not an S tier IMO. Most of the time the AI just dodges their single shot, even if it's a clusters type projectile and even if you aim them at point-blank they start getting derpy and doing their shoot animation without ever actually shooting. I find that they're somewhat useful when the enemy missile troops start shooting and they standstill, but actually when that happens iron blasters do much more damage because their projectiles kinda ricochet and also hit the enemy backlines if they clump their missiles.
Your talking about scrap launchers right. Because in my experience, battles I've had them in, they easily get hundreds of kills.
Use them to flank enemies engaged with your melee lines. Your low entity count suddenly becomes *really* useful.
Ogres stacking the boommaker big name can make a really good doomstack, what I do is 6 hunters with stonehorn (harpoon launcher for default) mount and that big name, one butcher for healing and 3 ironblasters and 9 Leadbelchers. The lord should be Tyrant because they can have that big name too. The best is that with enough preparations you can have the doomstack open and running as soon as turn 30ish. At least that's my strategy for the realm of chaos. Love the content.
My experience with some units was very different. Also playing on L/VH - Crushers, too expensive to ever recruit. Leadbelchers, very strong and easy S-tier, even without multiple hunters to boost them. Can sweep away massive hordes of infantry and snipe down single entities with ease. Ironblaster, much weaker now that it was changed in 1.1 to be a big shotgun. Needs to be constantly relocated to hit anything, and it's fairly slow. Also much weaker against towers nin 1.1, I think it's A or even B now. Scraplauncher, only useful against infantry. But, leadbelchers delete infantry faster and much more reliably. I'd put it A or even B due to redundancy.
Agree. Ironblasters are not that good anymore
I agree , Leadbelchers are the core of my armies and I was surprised they were not S tier. I do not think of them as artillery but rather normal rifles with excellent range. Few stonehorns to stop anything getting too close and its game over for pretty much everything.
Recruit hunters with the boommaker trait, and run them with the iron blasters. Trust me the iron blasters are still good. I have 5 ironblasters with 12 hunters, at 5.7k damage per shot, they'll obliterate just about anything.
The true LegendofTotalWar
Ogre rating.
@@Ba11leFieldAce Captain obvious, read what op said. After finishing both vh Ogre campain Ironblasters got nerfed badly. You can make them extra strong snipers with boommaker but they are missing shogun effect which made them OP. Having 3 or 4 them is always good but they are not doomstack material.
Wow, that Dawn of War deal is amazing. If you play the game for a couple hours it was still worth it and I spent so many hours playing 1 and 2 over the years. Giants are really good vs Nurgle and pretty good vs khorne and slaanesh. Terrible vs Kislev, cathay, and the mirror. I think trappers are S tier. The amount of work they can do for the cost is impressive. Two full stacks of trappers cost less than one decent army and are sneaky as hell.
I've been waiting to pick up dow2 for a while so this was perfect for me lol
I told myself I wasnt going to TWW3 until I completely wiped out all other races on every one of my ME campaigns for each race. I probably have a good 500 hours left of TWW2 lol.
Luckily I also have something like 250 mods...
Ironfist maneaters with a beast wizard are disgustingly strong. I love that unit. Personally, I will say ai prefer ironfist bulls in the early to mid game over ironguts or regular bulls. I think the extra little bit of armor, missile block chance, and sizable MD increase make them pretty massively more durable than the basic bulls. And they are just vastly more cost effective than the somewhat expensive ironguts, and depending on how much ap missile fire the enemy has, they can even be more durable due to that shield. They are also more efficiently buffed by a beast wizard. That is just my 2 cents though. Be thwy mournfang, crusher, bull or maneater, when in doubt, ironfist. All ogres do a lot of damage, but defense is their weak point. Shoring it up makes them trade much more efficiently.
always really enjoy the tier list vids w all of your insight of the game
Personally I find mournfang great weapons to be S tier. They're way more cost effective than crushers and I find that ogres lack early anti large so they come into armies at a good time.
Gnoblars are my favorite crapstack in WHIII for the same reason Sneaky Gits are my favorite crapstack in WHII. Having a bunch of little green dudes running around yelling the meme-iest of war cries poking unsuspecting humies with pointy murder sticks and throwing little choppas around is just *chef's kiss* The fact that you can make them unbreakable when their lord has "Gnoblar Kicker" as a big name is just the cherry on top.
The shielded Maneaters and GW Crushers should probably be S tier if you're not putting Leadbelchers in your armies. About the only way either of them will see significant casualties even on VH battle difficulty.
I've been really surprised by how much Crushers (GW) can achieve. On top of being giga tanky, they just dismantle any large unit in melee : cavalry, monsters, single entity, all get dunked. And they roll over infantry too...
This action DOES have my consent! Nice job!
At first I was pretty disappointed with the Leadbelcher's performance, then they started getting Chevron's and I REALLY felt the power level and individual performance spike hard. Chevron 4 Leadbelcher's are when they start to perform and Chevron 9 Leadbelcher's are absolute laser beams with just as much melting power.
The only problem I have with them is how they tend to knock over man sized single entities, and as we know a target that's fallen over is completely immune to any and all damage. Anyway they tend to not actually deal a tonne of damage to man sized single entities because they stunlock them on the ground permanently which is useful in it's own right.
love the segway to the sponsor nice work.
Nothing like a good ol' Legend rant about Giants.
I feel like Gorgers dont have a place in the roster at the moment. Too squishy and too little damage. Either pump up damage and keep lower entities so they die quick but deal damage, or lower damage still, but make them beefier so they hold the line. The stalk they have isnt that impactful enough to keep in an army in my opinion.
Yeah they got super over nerfed. Specially cutting entities from the unit, thats over the top imo
I think they should be high damage and I think they should increase their speed. I was surprised to find that these lean ravenous monsters had the same 54 speed as heavily armoured obese ironguts. If the had like 70 or 75 speed they could be like a replacement for sabretusks, and actually have a niche.
B tier is super generous because there isn't really a role for Gorgers where you take them over another unit.
I'm sure there are many worse units in the game, but in this roster, there is only Giants.
They still got stalk i supose, thats strong if used well but ye could just use lions w a hunter giving those stalk and frenzy; and their even faster and super cheap.
Nerfed because of multiplayer.. again.
Keep up the good work, mate :)
On my current VH VH Domination Campaign I'm on turn 150+ and still steamrolling with Ironguts and Leadbelchers. Cheap, easy to recruit and a lot of power for the cost. I never bothered to upgrade to Maneaters and Ironblasters.
Thanks for the warhammer 40k info, bought it right away!
Got myself the dawn of war collection, thanks legend
Thanks I’m going to do a Ogre Campaign and try to finish it. I beat the game as KHORNE and quit my other campaigns because of the portals
yeah, dark crusade was pretty awesome m8, cool to see it show up here of all places
Love these tier lists
Ogres my lord
Ogres my lord
Ogry, panie!
Ogre Kingdoms are def my fav faction to play as in the game right now.
In a better state than the rest of the factions.
Dark Crusade was great, was disappointed when Soulstorm made the buildings reset every time so you might as well just rush the enemy base with your honour guard...
globnar trappers are what i have always in my camps as crapstacks because u can make them completly free and they pay for themselves when camp comes under attack
Nice shout out to the dawn of war franchise its such a classic set of games! especially the original set leading up to Soulstorm...well.....maybe not Soulstorm... Dark crusade! Dark crusade instead! in all seriousness though I do hope someone somewhere decides to have another bash at a dawn of war 4 or something akin to those games. Keep up the cheese covered content my guy!! :)
On small unit scale giants and horse cav are very good.
Dow soulstorm is also turn based, I have the discs but I can't get them to work, so I'll definitely buy these
I might need to pick up that DoW collection. Mine are all on disc
Would have loved to see a manscaped commercial for the ogres
Honestly the best units in my army were Sabertusks, Stonehorns and Crushers. Found Ironbelchers to have a super limited and shitty utility
Sabertusks are strangely better against calvary compared to missile infantry.
@@dr.vanilla9017 They're fucking great flankers honestly for when you need that extra support in the mid-game. Found that I could still run my early game units while on a budget because of my 4 sabertusks with my Mournfangs just anvil and hammering the Cathayans.
Dam wasn't prepared for the dawn of war thing but completly agree playing THE BOYZ right now and it's a blast also aged rather well in terms of of looks, just be prepared unit pathing is a bit wonkie(but i guess we're used too it) and changing hotkeys is only a thing trough a txt file
Ogre roster is definitely quality, I'll give CA that, whichever team made them. Tbh seems like it was not the main team, because of their high quality (and tendency to be op). Meanwhile demon races struggle with their large units constantly. Soul grinders only gamechangers in great numbers, greater demons kinda underperforming, Khorne minotaurs being weaker than regular ones in WH2, Beast of Nurgle and rotflies being mostly useless other than acting as roadbumps, Chaos Spawn variants being similarly weak to WH2 etc.
All in all it feels like Chaos demons got a massive nerfhammer to begin with to fit within the expected constraints of the game. Maybe CA thought their admittedly op (when and if its working properly, unlike Slaanesh or Daniel's itemization) campaign mechanics will make up for it or Idk.
The only other race imo with similar battle quality to Ogres is Kislev, which is why these 'needed' the biggest nerfs, and dominate(d) pvp, too. (Yes yes, pendulum and protoss shields are/were both op, but thats rather the result of poor testing rather than any foresight.)
I was thinking this for so long seems the ogre’s roster is damn near perfect and fleshed out the daemons roster seems to lackluster for lack of units or laziness hard to tell I think Khorne or Tzeencht are pretty good though maybe like one or two units would’ve made it a lot better but it’s fine Nurgle and slannesh however 🤮
Ogres are my favorite, u the man Legend 🤙
We need a giant ror with a gold shield. Because it would annoy legend to no end.
damn i didnt know that you would put sabertusk into a tier i thought they are going to be an d or c tier but now I'm so happy
yeah, sabretusk surprised me. they die really quickly and i have to micro them a lot.
If the Dawi Zharr have siege giants they better be as fast as as their infantry. If they get shot to puedes before they reach the main gates there’s no reason to bring them.
I have a feeling CA will not want to spend the money on new Guant animations to keep them lore friendly. Otherwise Giants would be some of the most chaotic, but powerful units in a Factions roster.
The only thing I think they should add to giants is rampage. So make giants have sprint animations. Give some army Factions like Chaos Dawi and WoC armor variants of giants. BOOM!!!!
Giants are now TRULLY viable in campaign
Hello, great work!
Can u make a tier list video for best units for autoresolve?
Leadbelcher doomstacks are so fun. How do you boost them, though? Just the red upgrade line for the lord?
Can someone please put a clunk of metal on the giant, its already slow so putting armor on it would make sense. I hope Nippon would make giants great 🤣
This is the only race I can play in tw3 and still have a lot of fun. Best faction.
Ah Dawn of War you are a man of culture i see
Love the video man! You said you can boost the Iron Blaster and LED Blechers a ton. How do you do that actually?
Knoblar x6, knoblar trapper x4, rest ogre bulls with a hero of choice (whatever is available) is basically my emergency stack for defense. Its cheap and the bulls do get shit done.
The thing I've noticed is that there's a tendency for the tier 1 Ogre roster to fall short in mid to late game, right around the time I'm JUUUUST about to get tier 4 stuff. There's a bit of a gap there where if Cathay or whoever decides to start sending armies at me it really really sucks because they have so many units that fire in arcs and/or fly, so defensive battles (camps or settlements) get very very messy.
I've had some success with ranged gnoblars flanking but that can also get messy, just a bit less so.
I guess as Kairos and Greasus you just have to kill Cathay early...?
As Kairos do you end up getting mauled by the armies constantly spawning to attack the Great Bastion?
And did the Ironblaster nerf really not matter much?
in my personal experience Kairos doesn't really get issues with the armies spawning to attack the great bastion. even on times when I've declared war on them they've just kind of ignored me to attack the Bastion, gotten wiped out, and then respawned no longer at war with me. if I take down the Bastion gates they just go through the broken gates to attack Cathay.
You really want to put the work in to ally with the Hung, just so you don't have to deal with their crap.
Crushers should be S-Tier as they can be completely unstoppable in campaign.
Also biased they became my favorite unit of Game III after my Ogres Campaign.
What I wondered... monsterous infantry in general in WH2 is pretty garbage. looking at kroxigors or rat ogres for example.
what makes the ogres so much better?
Collision damage, high health/low model count, and Ogre charge all work together to make them very effective against basically anything that isn't top tier halberd style infantry. They are *very* scary.
@@Krane2000 I hope these differences are implemented to the other monstrous infantry from WH2.
Numbers mostly, also rat ogres are squishy and have low leadership, kroxigors are okay but the rest of the lizardmen roster makes them sort of redundant. Also the ogre faction is built around monstrous units using their %-based heals and the buffs. There may also be mechanical buffs to monsters in this game as opposed to wh2 I'm not sure, but iirc there were excellent monsters in wh2 as well, like minotaurs for example; particularly post-rework
Look at their stats on tww and compare them to even Stone Trolls. There's your answer, they are gigantic stat balls.
Giant may be a good choice for camps? Just to save the money, it doesn't need to walk the open field
Been w8ing for this one
In the end game I did a mix of the most expensive units, (like 2 of each) and they turn to be pretty much the same (bull ogres) but the ones who did a good job were the pirates with the gun.
I also did a doomstack of lions with the hunter (I have the game in spanish so correct me if Im wrong) and boosted them, it was actually pretty fun, you can do lots of stuff with them, but they are very squishy
Pros of ogres:
-Brutish
-Nomads
-Strong as they are stupid
-Hardy warriors
-will cannibalize any foe who dares cross them
I actually bought that exact dawn of war collection a while ago. Its really good value. I haven't installed it yet :/
Legend does a paulie walnuts laugh a lil after 10 mins in. Lol
Normaly i dont give a crap about ads but rly that dawn of war franchise is someting i am going to buy :D
i really dont find any value in the crap launchers they always miss ... unless it has been fixed with the last patch ofc
It seems to me that the Sabertusks are pretty good against large units, like Ogre Bulls.
I was just thinking about when you'd do ogres. I'm curious how you rank Mournfang and crushers.
Only one I disagree with is the sabretusks, found them very underwhelming at performing the 'dogs' role.
they were affected by either a bug or broken behaviour, they rampage at the drop of a hat at random it feels like, and then never come out of it. so often i'd have mine just chilling at the edge of the map after chasing a router. when they weren't doing that though, i found them to be pretty good, and even better with a leveled up hunter in an army.
They're actually better at fighting horse calvary.
I love the ogre kingdoms tematic but, somehow I find the "meat" resourse very frustrating. If you dont have a camp you need a tier 3 base with a building that cuts down the entire provence gold income by half. The easiest way to get meat is by "land battles" and I have realized that most of my battles are low tier towns and for some reason DA doenst allow you to collect meat from them.
Do u guys have a good trick or better tactic to manage the meat?
I like to build a camp and build meat buildings stack up my meat to the max which is 300 and you should be fine after that add a new camp every now and then, then continue to go out
Read carefully. The meat building reduces -region- income by 50%. So only that one settlement. Put your $ buildings in the other settlements of the province
I never had any problems with meat in my recent ogre campaign, if I had to guess it's that you aren't playing aggressive enough as thats the main way you get it. or perhaps your camp placement is weird? i just kind of plopped them down near a few settlements I was about to attack and that supplemented my armies enough that I always seem to have 200+ meat. My armies spent very little time in my own territory.
@@jermz238 don’t all they all produce meat? I thought there was a specialized meat line but idk haven’t played the game in a long time
@@goat369 the camps do, OP was referring to the settlements. And yeah the strat that worked for me was hang out in camp radius for a bit, always making forward camps when possible, maxing out your foods is ez
Another good vid thanks
So nice to know that despite the volatile state of total war and the world around us changing for the worse, we can always take comfort in the knowledge that giants will always be shit. :)
For a split second I thought Legend was going to say something good about the giant. Then my dreams dashed as we came back to reality, nevermind, poor giants 😢
My only real complaint with the ogre roster currently in the game is that ironguts are a tier 3 unit that get overshadowed by all of the maneater units. When reading up on ogre kingdoms units years before warhammer 3 i always thought that the ironguts would be the best ogre infantry in their roster while maneaters would be the mid tier infantry that are upgrades to the basic bulls. It's just weird that the ogres who are supposed to be the body guards of ogre tyrants and the best equipped in a tribe are so low performing compared to maneaters.
Thanks for the video
Now that I think about it
Isn't it a bit too soon to make tiers list ranting units roaster ?
Especially since we didn't even know what will change or get add in the future ?
(Love the one bird, doomstack :p )
If we've learned anything, the CA DLC team is much better than the CA main game team.
Not really related to the video, but Dawn of War: Dark Crusade is definitely the best DoW game so thumbs up :D
I have found that the ogre roster works best as a mix of infantry cavalry monsters and artillery
Honestly, the only chance giants have of being worth their cost is when the Chaos Dwarfs start fielding armored ones.
that's what I've been thinking, if they had like 100 armor or even a shield then their main weakness (missiles) would largely be gotten rid of.
Multiplayer will make sure ogres, and tzeetnch get nerfed again.
Oh, and I do like what they did with mass in WH3. Not having my big monsters get stuck in infantry is refreshing.
Not sure why 200 range is considered short on Leadbelchers. Aside from siege, they pretty much outrange most, if not all, other missile troops. 🤷♂