The made in Britain is very very misleading. Perhaps better term would be assembled in GB. When the main meat your product is made in China made in GB/UK is simply just not true.
Even assembled in the UK is a stretch with the vast majority of the unit being modules made and assembled in China (or Asia as they like to put it as it sounds nicer). The case is made in the UK....and maybe the cardboard box that its shipped in.
I was quoted a 6kw system with stacked 7.5kw batteries €13k installed. I have a flat roof with a staircase to it, so installation was as easy as it gets. It is 2.5m from inverter to the mains box into house. Bought a Deye 6kw E.U. hybrid inverter and a 7.5kw lithium stackable battery, direct from china for €2.4k delivered. Plus 13 x 440w solar panels for approx €1.7k euros (Leroy Merlin bought before the prices tumbled) built my roof storeage for €200, moveable timber frames for the panels €100, plus additional miscellaneous control boxes etc. €250. So the total price for materials and storage etc is approx €4.7k Instalation " connecting and checking equipment and paperwork by a Spanish qualified electrician. €700. Total €5.47k saving €7.53k by doing 5 days work myself.
@@SW-gu1wytakes half a day to install generally so some very fat margins being taken. Did the diy route myself. Best move ever and good financial sense.
@@themagnificentche1119 What? Who? 🤣🤣🤣 That's the problem mate, I don't give a poop about MCS but the wife booked a cruise with MSC with part of the savings, "can't win with women'slogic". As for the DNO the wife was happy that I "Did Not Order" from some rip off merchant's. I have worked with the guys who gave me the quote "different trade" and I refused to give him a deposit for his next Merc.
@@themagnificentche1119 Also don't know what country your from but what I did was all to local regs. Passed by power company and ok for on grid connection.
I put 1.9Kw on my shed for £600. £300 for panels 3 x 630w panels and £300 for Inverter and cables. I got quoted £8k to put 3Kw on the roof of my house. 8x 400w panels is about £400 now. Solar is the new double glazing, be careful and go for the solar equivalent of Everest.
Yep. There's a lot of people on this video bigging up their prices against "bad installers". No such thing as cheap bad installers. Bad installers are charging an arm and a leg too.
The price of solar equipment has dropped by a lot so prices of installed systems need to follow, some installers still think they can massively mark up the equipment some dont, customers are more informed in what the equipment really costs now and the mystery behind solar has gone.
I see loads of quotes for solar where the labour costs aren't detailed. But they're clearly 75%-80% of the total. Charlatans like roofers. Even if the government has made electrical installation out of the hands of DIY.
Made in the UK, we taped the packaging shut and added the address label. Then took a huge mark up on other peoples work. It is fairly standard everywhere these days. Old Dragon's Den. I drew this thing, China worked it all out and made it for pennies, I sell it for hundreds of pounds as I am 'designer', that is the difficult bit, wielding a crayon. The west is actually on the path to collapse. Too used to easy money for trivial nonsense, and rarely actually making a thing. Perhaps when we can buy our own robots to do the work for us, we will be able to make stuff again! We can get paid for dusting the robot once a day.
@@nicholaspostlethwaite9554 The UK is primarily a service industry - we pay extortionate prices to have someone else do everything for us as we are incapable or too lazy to do anything ourselves. Even much of our manufacturing is more a service industry in the sense that you describe - China working it all out and we mainly rebadge and resell it with service provider features.
Maybe this product should have the honesty of the Marin mountain bike makers - the packing of my bike had printed on it (over a huge Stars and Stripes logo) Made in Taiwan, Assembled with pride in the USA…………… Also let’s be honest about calling a spade a spade - Asian origin batteries aren’t Asian, they are Oriental but also Chinese. China is not Asia these days.
@@VinoVeritas_ Not if you do the sums v investment. Investing the money is cheaper I'm paying 17p Solar is a waste of time on my very high West facing old slate roof
@@VinoVeritas_ It isn't but neither are feed in tariffs or overnight electricity tariffs . There are even arguments that feed in tariffs are going to seriously decline in value
Biggest issue with renewable industry is no regulation on common "plug socket" for EV's. Standard format like how our normal sockets are, tech going to USB-C.
Don’t have solar probably too old now for investing in a solar scenario for my house , obviously it’s got my interest though , watching your videos they tend to be common sense with the practicality of experience and knowledge, plus you keep it simple that even I can understand, I was thinking about getting a portable unit to see if it would help with the ever increasing electricity bills , one fact is for certain bills never seem to go down, with that fact of life in mind thought about getting a portable battery that I could use for cooking or heating a room that I could have foldable panels in the garden to power the portable battery that would help with the cost of everyday life , Do you have any plans in the future to do some videos on this concept , I have a large garden so space not a problem, many people who live in flats with a balcony would also benefit from the concept = every little helps , sorry Tesco quite a good slogan , could of course used a different slogan = maybe a song = Don’t let the sun go down on me = George Michael , sorry tend to digress a lot ,
I'm avoiding the proprietary HV battery systems because who knows if you'll be able to buy more batteries when the manufacturer moves on to the next big thing. With a 16S 48V LFP system you can potentially add more capacity from a number of vendors in the future. For the guy who said it feels like the software industry 20 years ago, it's more like 30+ years ago, when things were vaguely compatible or not quite compatible.
The worst part is basically the removal of the entire value chain in Europe. Not many installers recommending the local industry. Some installers simply use the cheapest components that are possible. Also a lot of installers do not care if you bind yourself to a specific product as the devices can only work with there own stuff. E.g buy-in Eco-System.
1:54 "… it's IP67 rated which means you can put it in a bath of water." You chuckled a little when you mentioned that, but there's a lot less chuckling involved when a local river decides to go on vacation in your basement as they increasingly like to do due to you-know-what.
In 2012 I had a 3.9kW array plus inverter installed for £5750 - that included a pre-installation building survey, house energy efficiency survey, commissioning and certification. The system has run continuously without fault since (barring the generation meter (made in the UK!) failing). I have been getting quotes to add a similar sized array on the other side of the roof and excluding the cost of the battery storage the cost of just the solar is now 2x the cost of the original…………… The original system was bought from IKEA and was installed by a local installer who were sub-contracted to IKEA and had previously quoted me in excess of £25000 for the same system in 2011. It doesn’t look to me like the price of solar panels has come down at all, looks like it’s gone the other way!
Unfortunately the cost of panels and batteries, which have reduced greatly in the last 5 years is compensated for by the need of greedy installers to drive around in new Teslas and not get out of bed for less than £600 a day each or worse, whilst pocketing the 0% VAT your no longer required to pay.
@@SolarizeYourLife well my grid connection has only failed once in 30 years due to a distribution cable fault, it can supply more power than I’ll ever need too …no doubting that exceeds the reliability of solar/battery!
I work in Electronic manufacturing (not solar). When a customer phones the first question is "how much?" not "are your products British Made?". Our products are designed and made in Britain therefore they aren't the cheapest which is why we only turn 1 out of every 20 enquiries into a sale. So judge for yourself the pecking order of importance to customers.
made in the UK is a very very lose term as to what "Made" means. if you get a power supply and a box, and put the power supply in the box, that is "Made in the UK" even when the two parts are made in China. that little bit of assembly allows the "made in the UK" claim. or in this case put a made in china battery in a made in china box, that is then "Made in the UK". "Made in the UK" really isn't what is used to be. these days it really doesn't mean anything and really isn't worth the badge.
Looking at getting an Sig battery system with gateway here in Ireland at the moment. Only other option is Huawei, but Lord is the stuff expensive here in Ireland.
Biggest problem with the British solar industry is the misleading energy harvesting statistics. Basically one can write off any solar gain between the months November to end of March. Another problem is the average size of the average roof is too small to make the installation viable.
I've install 6 PV systems for friends and family. All were the smallest 3.68kW. Each one saves the owner between 5 and 600 pounds per year. The £2000 that these people had in the bank earning 1% interest is now earning them approximately 15% 'interest'.
13:47 the first few vehicles with Bi-directional charging have been availiable for 6 months or more, Nissan Leaf, Ford F150, some MG, Renault, all BYD etc etc. It's often a price-extra option though.
As a consumer how do you weed the bad installers from the good. Going by price and choosing the most expensive is not an option, I can only think of go in by Which? Recommendations?
You can't. Every installation needs stringent quality control and on-site verification from and independent body. Which? is just another paper exercise that guarantees nothing.
So someone is curious about solar energy and had a mega bad experience with heat pump install, where do they find a legitimate, trust worthy installer??
Just install it yourself and find a electrician to connect it. The installer will just squeeze the earning of the solar system leving you only ~5% return on your investment without considering the risk of hardware failure after warranty.
Just connect it yourself too. Not exactly rocket science. Of course, if you want the over-priced MCS certificate then you'll have to get an overpriced electrician to glance at your system and charge you a grand. However, so long as you tell the DNO (for free) that you're exporting then just do so and when batteries are (even) cheaper then you can use your solar to charge them. The MCS certification is clearly bogus because it doesn't guarantee a good install.
Exactly. At the moment I can get 5% compounding monthly leaving the cash in the bank. With solar I won't get an equivalent return until I've had a solar system with battery successfully up and running for at least 20 years. The dodgy installers offering low priced installs know where the price needs to be. The genuine installers need to figure out how to deliver quality for the same price.
@@cottawalla Seems you've made your mind up but I would suggest the finances are the opposite. The last 4kW system I installed cost £1200 in panels and inverter and that will save the customer (my sister) approximately £500 per year. The MCS cert was an extra £450 - (a total rip off) but will be worth it. What isn't worth it currently are batteries - I'm waiting until we're in the £50 per kWh range before installing those - and they can be installed completely separately to the PV.
@mb-3faze it's the battery that tips the equation. Solar batteries are still just far too expensive. Yes, I could save some money over 10 years (pay back time was about 6 years) with just panels but it would be such a small dent in my bill that the hassle isn't worth it.
@@kemots455 the Italian government force Alfa Romeo to change the naming of car Milano as it was made in Poland I believe they called it Junior in the end But you see this with Cornish pasties have to be made in the Cornwall area . The same for Champagne
Interesting walk-round covering things I missed. The Powervault P5 is floor-mounting only - I think it's a weakness to assume a nice clean garage or a wide outside path will be available - they've skimped on the (British-made) frame specs. The new product I saw & you missed is the Anker Solis S1 battery & hybrid-inverter that matches PW3 for usability & function (save for not 3 MPPT) and beats it for appearance & corrosion resistance. It's a smasher. Worst thing in the industry for me is manufacturers not declaring inverter efficiency at specified powers, so concealing their underperformance at low power (ie in Winter when we need every Watt!). Oh and you should have mentioned AIKO's brilliant partial cell-level optimising panels.
Only problem with this technology is that its evolving so quick its difficult to know if you are getting value for money. You could spend a fortune today for something that might be considered a dinosaur in a year or two. Also how will these systems effect to cost of home insurance. If the quality of installs is generally as poor as your video suggests then insurers are going to have to factor in the increased risk.
Yes, inevitable, in less time than any supposed pay back, if that ever happens, a new system will be two or three times better, and already hogging your available roof space, cost more to update etc. Never will the customers win that much. All the money pours into the 'industry'. But we are all dead in the end.
@@tmyersf4 Exactly. The worst bit is most of these systems want to lock you into a proprietary setup. Can't mix and match. You could (will) be buying equivalent of Betamax vs VHS. The batteries are vastly overpriced. The top quality (Chinese) batteries almost everyone use cost less than $100kWh. Companies slap a bit of tin around them, add a few cables, bits and bobs and turn around and sell $400-$800kWh - it's insanely profitable - that's why every Tom, Dick and Harry is jumping in.
Are you saving or just prepaying, I mean the batteries need replacing and the cost of them for many people would be the same as their normal energy use over the same period of time. Everyone keeps saying you need to pay more, and the cost on these installs is crazy, might be cheaper to just buy a second home with the amount of money people are spending. It’s not free energy, the panels have huge cost environmentally, and unless you can use it in real time you need to store it, exporting to the grid is not desirable by the grid. Battery storage is expensive and needs replacing, they also have a huge environmental impact.
@@VinoVeritas_ Did you like your own post lol What about the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 and the Business Protection from Misleading Marketing Regulations 2008. These regulations are part of UK statutory law and cover accurate product labeling to prevent misleading consumers?
@@Space-O-2001 I've never liked my own comments. I'm not that desperate for approval. None of those pieces of legislation contain any reference to 'Made in Britain'.
Some issues I saw just getting into solar this year. Home insurance can be to high for solar. While the price of solar hardware is dropping the price of installers is not. Outdated City permits (For instance the city I live in does not allow solar as its to high a risk for their fire fighters) They don't always come straight out and tell you no, they just don't approve permits and keep you in limbo for years. We have a lady who spent 18k on solar panels and the installer and herself have not been able to get permits from the city for over 18 months. A lot of Companies require a solar installer instead of selling direct for DIY people.
Installers bemoaning the fact that customers only want cheap installs need to present their USP and demonstrate the Value Add - its the 'Why should I buy my Heinz Baked Beans from Waitrose or a Discount Supermarket?' argument - inform and demonstrate value rather than moan about the cowboys.
Sustainable energy? I don't get anything like enough sunshine to sustain my home here in Bristol. Lack of sunshine will only get worse as we head towards Christmas... No way could I go off-grid...and it isn't due to the lack of panels - I have 10KW worth... Endless Cloud cover has been painful this year...
10KW _is_ a borderline lack of panels in the UK in winter. In summer half an hour of good sun around noon should keep a house going for a day but output is severely reduced in winter &, as you say, with clouds but 10KW should still be enough to produce the 5KWh you likely need for a day. Are your panels wired in series or parallel? Are they low-light panels? Are they at a good angle? Is there shading? Are all the connections sound? Are your batteries big enough? In good condition? Is your controller up to the job?
As an end-consumer, it would have been nice to know how you explain the differences between these systems to consumers. When booking my system installation two years ago, despite lots of TH-cam research, I didn't know what was important. The big one I learned was the 8kW electric shower, with just a 3kW inverter the other 5kW has to come from the Grid regardless of the battery charge. When the WiFi frequency was changed by the Broadband provider, I found that the Battery Management System could be changed remotely, but the Solar Edge monitoring system couldn't. It took Solar Edge a long time to realise this! I had assumed that Solar Edge was a professional operation with quality products! The installer, who appears to primarily focus on industrial customers, now wants £250 for a ten-minute job! I subsequently realised that their consumer relationship is abysmal. Sending one of their team up a ladder on his own with a 40kg battery wasn't clever either. I'm currently investigating if I need more battery capacity, obviously, I wouldn't go back to my original installer. It's a shame that Artisan doesn't cover as far South as Hertfordshire😒
Any sign of the expected drop in home storage prices? At this stage its pretty hard to see a ROI on buying/selling split vs battery warranted hours. Once that gap closes up a bit more I think there will be a huge uptake in storage, poss even without solar.
This is the problem with the solar and battery storage industry, too many people focus on what they will get back rather than what they system will do for them in the long run. People will quite happily spend £40k on a car which loses it's value as soon as you drive it out of the showroom. 3 years later it worth less than half what you paid for it, that loss pays for the solar and battery storage system. Energy prices will always increase if you can install a system where you don't rely on the grid what do you think is more financially viable?
Given BYD can sell a 50+kwh car for say 15k or Euros, but a home battery of 8-10 kwh capacity is upto what £3,500 speaks volumes. Home battery overly expensive
@@kjc728 Yes but I believe the pay back stuff will turn out to be nonsense anyway as it only takes a drop in power prices, that all this renewables is supposed to bring about, and all that guessing and assuming of the future is gone. I am basically as you put it doing it as I like the idea of my own power, and the security of power supply. I was unconcerned about pay back and it confuses the devil out of installers pitches. lol But battery prices are clearly a rip off relative to cars, and all the electronics boxes. Installers, scaffolders, charges for a day's work etc. But as I am old I will be dead before it pays off. Labour will only steal any money I have left as IT. So 🤷♂
@@stuartburns8657 But you can't sell to the grid your car battery, you can make up to £1,000 a year selling your solar generated battery. EV cars drop dramatically in prices after a few years you lose more money that way. Solar and battery storage can get a payback in about 8 years. When does a car ever get a payback?
The price of solar systems in the Uk is an absolute scam i reside in the Uk but also have a family home in bangladesh i have installed an entire solar system over in bangladesh that powers absolutely everything and has been running without any issues whatsoever for the past 15 years the cost was £2000 for that price in the western world you’d probably get just some solar panels and eff all else
Enphase is dead - at least in central europe. Far too expensive and unreliable, inefficient too. Far better to work with optimizers where needed and not in general. Anyone who had thought they were good has left them after 12 years or so when the real world issue kicked in: dying or dead enphase crap.
Interesting, but how do you actually know who is a good installer of good kit and who isn't. And secondly how do you know if a lower price is in fact better value than a higher price. Its not easy from a domestic customer perspective. Is there a schedule of best practice to compare against?
i have solar and battery and its all installed fine, however my issue as a consumer is you really at the beck and call of what the company wants to install as there preferred equipment due to like MCS and wanting export you cant install your self or there no one out there installing equipment alone and gives MCS etc they want to do they whole job as a comapany, so you can really cant customise systems to your very own specs and have some one in to install it
As a potential customer in the near future looking for a solar/battery system, all this new tech means what? What is worth waiting a few months more for compared to say jumping in now? If you are a domestic customer, what do you look for? What questions should I be asking to make sure no cowboys get a look in? It isn’t about money, it’s about value for money.
We have within the last month had a solar/battery install completed. Figure out from your own usage what size installation and battery storage capacity you require. Don’t oversize and waste money when it’s not required.
@@WillEclipse It’s about much more than that. It needs enough information about the actual kit, devices, connectivity, hardware, software etc to enable a MoSCoW Analysis to be done. I know what my electrical needs are, but what actual hardware/software is needed to meet that need. It’s not just a battery and a set of panels connected with wires. What else must, should, could or won’t be required. When quotes are created how does a consumer know when it’s platinum plated but actually rubbish when the plating is scratched off?
I honestly don't think the tech is moving all that quick really, there are only a few new items. It's just got much bigger as more businesses joining in. Panels: Just get type N bifacial panels now as pricing has narrowed to almost nothing. Hybrid inverters: Very much the same. It's usually the software that is better or worse. Some people want the best software because managing their solar/battery is like a second job to them. Others literally never log in and just leave it. Batteries: Mainly software again and which glossy case you like. But there are outliers. Powerwall 3 for example. High output and 3x MPPT so worth the extra if you need those things. But equally don't pay for what you don't need. If you have had 3 short power cuts in the last 7 years you probably shouldn't be all that bothered about house backup options. Remember costs work both ways. Don't necessarily pay Rolls-Royce prices when at the end of the day the installers are buying the same panels, inverter, and batteries (Nissan Micra). You want a fair price not an expensive price. Everybody wants to earn a fair wage. Get an itemised quote with products and labour. If people aren't willing to itemise labour with their day rate then look for another quote.
Just get the size you need. The market hasn't really changed that much the last 10 years. Yeah the panels have increased in watt, but that's mostly due to they are much bigger today. The efficency has grown some but not much really. Yeah there is new software but how says that will be alive in 10 years? and what do you really need that for other than nice grapich to see produciton that nice for maybe a month. Instead make sure the inverter and battey if installed can speak a common language. Most are able to communicate over modbus even on consumer level. Meaning you can take the raw data and use if you want to go the cheap route with for example Home assistant. Chargers on the other hand use Ocpp, there own protocol but most smart models can do it, just Tesla crap that doesn't. I for instance have a Huawei inverter and read data over modbus into Home Assistant, also installed a modbus energy meter get values for import and export, then scripts comparing produced and exported to weather and switches heating, warm water, ventilation on/off I had some play to get a car charger to regulate charing speed but not there yet....
Trouble is looks are just skin deep, I had a solar install 5 years ago, not good had to get another company to put it right. Needless to say the company I used when into liquidation and no doubt started up under another name. Now all is good but after those repairs and not one but four car charge points and two inverters fortunately all changed in warranty.
Really interesting video...although now having watched a few of your videos Jordan, I concerned about out our 2 year old installation. It wasn't cheap to us, but I do wonder if some corners cut... are there any independent assessors out there that check previous installations that could be recommended in the Southampton area?
I liken solar installers like the double glazing industry, very poor. I'm certain there are decent installers out there but there has to be an easy way to find you making it impossible for cowboys to sustain a business. However, consumers MUST NOT be ripped off by any installer. Therefore decent installers must provide a breakdown of their costs.
Whilst I am very impressed with solar, and the legislation that goes with it, I am amazed that the industry does not standardise the size of the panels to enable roofs to be integrated into the roof fitting blank modules if not wanted on new builds.
Problem with the solar industry is that all of it should be unnecessary if planning and management of the national grid was concerned with reducing price!
I hate products that claim AI integration but are no different than what existed a year ago from that company. Just bad marketing. Sorry but a chatbot AI is just a speech model and does nothing for power usage. All these companies are just modifying their already existing algorithm slightly to integrate Chat AI features, or changing nothing and just rebranding. Everyone thinks when we say AI today it is thinking, which is not the case. They are thinking about True Artificial Intelligence like iRobot, not the algorithm based AI we have today. It is just coding done by another AI model. True thinking AI isn't even decades away from being possible, and might even require quantum computing to become mainstream. This is why you see trash vape companies listing AI on a mod which would add nothing anyway even if it had AI, which it does not. It is just the same vape from last year, they just lie. F companies for adding buzzwords to their products.
Can't believe that the heat shrink break out boots are a new idea to the public here in the UK. Used these almost twice a week down in New Zealand when I moved there in 2006. Made by Raychem. even brought back a shit load when I moved back in 2021. Funny though, I used these on Naval warships and subs back in the 80's, again made by Raychem.
Strange ... the solution is always for the customers to pay more ... never for the government to keep its fingers out of the customers/installers/sellers pockets...
Were Oxford PV at this event? I heard they have just released there first perovskite panels, would have been good to hear from them and see the new panels.
Hi Jordan the question I keep getting asked can we have a wind turbine fitted to our solar system and connect it directly into a hybrid inverter I have looked into it but it doesn’t seem possible at the moment have you ever heard about this
Main problem sales sales sales is what it's all about but that's not helping quality installs as all they want is deposit signed on the line ( that's why they like MCS ) yes their installers get a day or 2 to crack it in🤦 basically its the new double glazing but will be blazing if it continues .All you need is A Good Spark who is NICEIC OR NAPIT and we Dont need a second inspection a year and another fee.Small family business 40 plus years solar since 2010 not MCS as its a con it offers me or my customers NOTHING that helps as we Dont take deposits and clients only pay after its fitted and they have used it for a week or so and we offer next day problem solving if any kit has a problem and we swop out and then deal with the manufacturer as it should be.
The worst thing is the configurators and installers. The best thing is the technology but will be the worst thing as the industry keeps leap frogging itself and no standards.
Now panels are cheap - £60-90 each. Some companies will be charging £12-15k for what is £4k of equipment and £500 of scaffolding. It shouldn't be 3x markup for salesman going door-to-door. It would be good if it could almost be a government backed company with a set price. £6000 for say 12x450w panels and 10kWh battery + £250 if on 2 roof aspects vs 1. It used to be only GivEnergy that had the best battery inverter solution - but looks like there's lots of others on the market now.
Greed by the installers is a huge problem. Just the attitude of that man in the intro 'I know what we are worth', basically arrogant and greedy. I expect to be very very well paid. As I 'can' extort it. The problem is not just the cowboy types. Good work should cost no more than bad. Do it right first time. None of it is that hard, it is only assembling other people's components, pretty basic. Basic Lego really. Ok yes it needs some tech electricians knowledge not denying that. But as a craftsman that made goods from scratch, sheet and wire, made patterns for shapes to be cast, actually making things, not merely assembling bits like plumbing parts or electrical work, the actual work is really basic not that 'valuable' or difficult really. This is why people used to DIY, the work is very very very easy, the problem only comes with the knowledge to connect correctly, safely etc.
What I object to most though is, that Installers add a hefty Premium on top of the price for Components. I accept that they need to make a profit in the materials as well, but if I can get the exact same product for half the price, then that's something I think needs change IMHO.
@@rolandrohde Yes costs need to be costs not marked up costs. Be at least honest and show you want £X all for yourselves. Not least as people can catch you 'at it' fairly easily!
Would be great to see pre-event promos as I didn't know about this event but may have been interested (assuming they welcome consumers). Lots of great content though on video!
You all overlook the innovation in panels. The fact you can buy these now all black panels (not silver, with blue cells). Panels hitting 23% efficiency (450w panels). Bifacial. Half-cells. All-black panels. And the price has been tumbling and tumbling to where panels are £60 for a 430w panel. £90 for a 600w panel - it's ridiculous that it's cheaper than a wooden door in B&Q - despite being as big and as heavy, and made of metal, glass and silicon! If panels were still £300, 250w each and blue with silver frames there wouldn't be any industry!!
Solar and Storage are growing beyond exponentially. For very good reason. The growth in the number of solar and storage is like nothing ever seen before. Well, except for the HUGE growth in BEVs. Just as legacy automakers are failing at BEVs, capitalism is making the solar and storage industry confusing and disjointed. If you want to do it right, do it like Tesla and SpaceX.
The certification bods and installers do themselves no favours. I look at installs like Artisan does and so much is unnecessary. For safety, you want as few electrical connections as possible. The AC disconnect is unnecessary (the dedicated breaker in the consumer unit is adequate), the multiple DC disconnects are unnecessary (there one on the inverter), the elmlite meter is entirely unnecessary and never read. Every time you add a connection you increase fire and failure risk. Get rid of the disconnects (1 AC, 2DC) that's 12 unnecessary connections and the elmlite meter is another 4 connection potential failure points.
The general comments on poor solar installers, is no different to rooftop solar installers in Australia. Better training packages are needed to help change this trend. Great video and quite funny with the comments on who has the better batteries.
Worst thing about solar is dealing with sparkys thinking there job is complicated and hard to learn. Charging more money than a Dr. Your Sparky's not brain surgeons.
5:46 led strip will be made in Asia. Casing do you have metal mines? So just software really is made in uk but that’s not 50% of the unit that’s 1% as it’s the firmware lol other software is not in this product they control it
15:31 120ms! That's _nothing like_ fast enough! 😮 Just about everything computerised (just about everything nowadays) will shut down & need a button pressed to re-start! 😢 10ms is pushing the limits, I have equipment that shuts down that fast 😢 I hope you're not recommending it!
"Don't join the race to the bottom" = I know I am expensive but I claim my customer service is better and I don't want to compete on price. Well that's what the next decade is all about - it's becoming commoditised. If you install my solar I never want to see you again unless I want something - which means everything works and there are no repeat visits. I had 3.5kw solar installed in 2015 for £4,200 - never missed a beat. Don't kid yourselves that competitive pricing means poor - it doesn't. No one should be paying more than £4,500 for a 5kw install today and you should be doing that in a day including paperwork. If you're more expensive than that you're not in the game. Consumers are getting savvy to you now.
Saying the customer needs to pay more is the exact reason the pricing is rocketing up and not become more affordable as the tech evolves. Perhaps tackle the lack of legislation and regulation within the industry and investing in the education of correct installation! 🙄
How is the average punter supposed to decide who to opt for ? they get several quotes and inevitably go for the lowest or lowest but one . They don’t have the technical knowledge to assess who is offering a decent package . I’ve spent ages researching and am spending 50k on solar , batteries and heat pumps , I think I’m getting a good install but in reality I have not been trained to know the technical ins and outs . Your and other you tube presentations are helpful for both you and the punter as it helps people in your area , but if you are not lucky enough to be in the vicinity then you are on your own . If you get govt involved with inspectors that becomes a nightmare because it’s govt and they are generally useless ,such as heat geek setting up a network on heat pumps installs helps , is there something similar for solar ?
A Tesla Powerwall 3 seems to be available for about £7000 with the gateway, thanks Google. Not sure if I need an inverter. Or to add installation. Perhaps Jason will comment. I don't want solar it's not worth it for me. I'm exploring if battery storage is worth it. I don't need battery backup we've had 1 power supply outage in 40 years. I need a return in 10 years. Let's analyse the costs of a battery. It's going to cost me £700 per year to buy (over 10 years) .... I spend about £790 pa on electricity. Perhaps that in itself says it is not worth it for me? Let's pursue this though I use about 3500 units a year. So each unit's storage cost is approx 20p ignoring conversion losses. I then add in 7p for the cheap overnight electricity. I'm paying 18p ..... Even if we give battery storage 20 years to pay back my unit cost would be similar to the price of buying electricity. Am i wrong here. Battery only storage of overnight electricity is not worth it to me.
Why would you opt for a battery that is massively overpriced? The Tesla Powerwall is roughly 3X more expensive than other LiFePO4 batteries per usable kWh of storage.
@@VinoVeritas_ A few hundred pounds 🙂 Taking into account conversion losses and an inverter 10p is too much it has to be 5p or less. I spend £780 pa on electricity at about 17p per KWh. I've no idea how cheap electricity is on overnight tariffs. It has to be 5p per KWh battery costs. If you take into account the cost of money. Maybe investing it and using the interest to pay part of the electric bill. Probably the overhead needs to be less than 5p . That route means that you still have the money after 10 years. Long ago I decided that solar and batteries are a mugs game Keep your money maybe use the interest to pay fuel bills. It's no hassle. It's rare that home industry can beat the big boys
@@allan4787 The problem here is your understanding of current costs. If you're basing it on the £7K that the Tesla Powerwall 3 costs, then you obviously don't understand what it is and what's included. Like I said, there are much cheaper options available.
I ended up chasing away my "installer" mid project because he tried telling me that my solar harvest was exactly the same as my daily usage.... After he installed our a grid tied Sunnyboy inverter our energy bill doubled in the coming winter months, upon questioning him, he walked over to the two KwH meters he had installed and pointed out that this was indeed what we used saying the two meters were in agreement, the meter on the grid tie inverters side and the meter on the municipal side. After another two months and me watching our consumption like a hawk, I decided to switch off the solar inverter.... Within the first month our bill was down by half, I again asked him to explain this, and again he walked over to the two meters.... This time he stood there puzzled as all hell claiming that I had messed with the install because I had switched off the inverter.... I asked him how it would be possible that just switching of the inverter would save me power.... He said it would not, I then asked him if he had checked what effect the inverter exporting to the grid would have on our dumb prepaid electric meter... He said there would be none, upon which I promptly told him to remove his head from his backside, to uninstall ALL his equipment and to give me my money back. Obviously it was not that easy, but, he said that our energy usage coincided with the solar production, upon which one electrical engineer asked him if our houses consumption was a stable 4KwH per day, and he actually said yes, because that is what the meters were showing.... I stay in Namibia, my wife and I are BOTH at work during the day we have no children, he was claiming that our house with just standby/ refrigerator consumption was 4KwH per day exactly matching the Sunnboy inverters production.... Bloody sausage..... For those who have not yet figured it out.... The Sunnyboy inverter exporting to the grid over our dumb pre paid electric meter was causing the meter to deduct units while the inverter was sending power back to the grid..... This guy, could not figure that out....... We did win, we got our money back and I ended up installing my own solar it is isolated from the grid dependant utilities that remain connected to the municipal feed via a double pole double throw isolator switch, I have even upgraded our install from lead to lithium..... Sometimes installing it yourself will depend on the intelligence level of the so called installer....
The sig energy unit that charges the car, could make positioning the battery harder, if it's in the stack. I originally liked the idea, not so sure at the moment.
'Box made in UK' would be more accurate. To me assembled in UK means the bulk of everything, right down to PCB's, should be made in UK - but nope, a few complete modules made and assembled in China are plugged into each other into a metal cabinet - which was made in the UK.
A lot of cowboys in the industry and a lot of really bad Chinese equipment. Done well solar is an awesome solution, I have lived on solar for 10 years. I design and build systems, I'm horrified at what some people charge for poor quality systems, there are a lot of people who are prepared to rip people off.
Powervault , made in Britain? Well not the cells, not the electronics but we do make the steel box … with imported steel now that we have closed port talbot blast furnace … good job 😕😕😕
@@VinoVeritas_ no Port talbot will not ‘make steel’ as the blast furnace has closed. It may precess steel made by others, steel made in India by Tata for example, but that’s another her thing.
@@andyxox4168 You see, this is the problem we have in the world. People that are ignorant. The brand new electric arc furnace is expected to be up and running at the Port Talbot site by the end of 2027. The feed stock for the electric arc furnace will be reclaimed steel that will undergo recycling and will be smelted and rolled into brand new steel commodity products.
@@VinoVeritas_ .. exactly and ignorant people think that is the same as ‘manufacturing steel’ which it is not, nor can an electric arc furnace ‘smelt’ steel as smelting is the process of releasing metal from ore. And of course there will have to be a fully functional backup gas power plant in case of loss of power from our new wonderfully expensive but unreliable renewable powered grid.
@@andyxox4168 Autocorrect caused the 'smelted/melted' error. To deny that brand new steel commodity products will be being produced at Port Talbot, regardless of feed stock, is totally disingenuous. Should we just put all used steel into landfill and continue the energy intensive process of 'smelting' from ore feedstock? Whether or not gas will be used to generate electricity for the arc furnace is a moot point.
Interesting to hear you say you use JA solar panels, in the last Sheffield Hallam uni report (Nov 23) JA solar were rated Very High in exposure to Uyghur forced labour camps. Panels maybe cheap but I would urge you to look in to why that is Jordan. Maxeon, Meyer Burger, REC group N peak and Alpha were the only ones rated as likely free from the forced labour camps.
The made in Britain is very very misleading. Perhaps better term would be assembled in GB. When the main meat your product is made in China made in GB/UK is simply just not true.
Maybe the Lithium comes from Cornwall?
The fisherthem caught it
The software and support being British counts for a lot though, as long as it’s good!
Even assembled in the UK is a stretch with the vast majority of the unit being modules made and assembled in China (or Asia as they like to put it as it sounds nicer). The case is made in the UK....and maybe the cardboard box that its shipped in.
@@dominicgoodwin1147 and still here in 5-10 years time.
I was quoted a 6kw system with stacked 7.5kw batteries €13k installed. I have a flat roof with a staircase to it, so installation was as easy as it gets. It is 2.5m from inverter to the mains box into house.
Bought a Deye 6kw E.U. hybrid inverter and a 7.5kw lithium stackable battery, direct from china for €2.4k delivered. Plus 13 x 440w solar panels for approx €1.7k euros (Leroy Merlin bought before the prices tumbled) built my roof storeage for €200, moveable timber frames for the panels €100, plus additional miscellaneous control boxes etc. €250. So the total price for materials and storage etc is approx €4.7k
Instalation " connecting and checking equipment and paperwork by a Spanish qualified electrician. €700.
Total €5.47k saving €7.53k by doing 5 days work myself.
What's your point!?
@@SW-gu1wytakes half a day to install generally so some very fat margins being taken. Did the diy route myself. Best move ever and good financial sense.
Yes but it is not MCS also did you notify the DNO?
@@themagnificentche1119 What? Who? 🤣🤣🤣 That's the problem mate, I don't give a poop about MCS but the wife booked a cruise with MSC with part of the savings, "can't win with women'slogic". As for the DNO the wife was happy that I "Did Not Order" from some rip off merchant's. I have worked with the guys who gave me the quote "different trade" and I refused to give him a deposit for his next Merc.
@@themagnificentche1119 Also don't know what country your from but what I did was all to local regs. Passed by power company and ok for on grid connection.
I put 1.9Kw on my shed for £600. £300 for panels 3 x 630w panels and £300 for Inverter and cables. I got quoted £8k to put 3Kw on the roof of my house. 8x 400w panels is about £400 now. Solar is the new double glazing, be careful and go for the solar equivalent of Everest.
Yep. There's a lot of people on this video bigging up their prices against "bad installers". No such thing as cheap bad installers. Bad installers are charging an arm and a leg too.
The price of solar equipment has dropped by a lot so prices of installed systems need to follow, some installers still think they can massively mark up the equipment some dont, customers are more informed in what the equipment really costs now and the mystery behind solar has gone.
I see loads of quotes for solar where the labour costs aren't detailed. But they're clearly 75%-80% of the total. Charlatans like roofers. Even if the government has made electrical installation out of the hands of DIY.
The only issue as I see it is lack of warranty once the installer disappears. This seems to be the main issue out there.
Indeed, we have several clients that have lost their warranties after their installers closed door.
That is the installer to avoid…
Load of rubbish claiming that is Made In Britain. UK gov't should be ashamed to allow that misleading labeling.
🤣🤣🤣
hey! we made the case! 😄
Made in the UK, we taped the packaging shut and added the address label. Then took a huge mark up on other peoples work.
It is fairly standard everywhere these days. Old Dragon's Den. I drew this thing, China worked it all out and made it for pennies, I sell it for hundreds of pounds as I am 'designer', that is the difficult bit, wielding a crayon. The west is actually on the path to collapse. Too used to easy money for trivial nonsense, and rarely actually making a thing. Perhaps when we can buy our own robots to do the work for us, we will be able to make stuff again! We can get paid for dusting the robot once a day.
@@nicholaspostlethwaite9554 The UK is primarily a service industry - we pay extortionate prices to have someone else do everything for us as we are incapable or too lazy to do anything ourselves. Even much of our manufacturing is more a service industry in the sense that you describe - China working it all out and we mainly rebadge and resell it with service provider features.
Maybe this product should have the honesty of the Marin mountain bike makers - the packing of my bike had printed on it (over a huge Stars and Stripes logo) Made in Taiwan, Assembled with pride in the USA…………… Also let’s be honest about calling a spade a spade - Asian origin batteries aren’t Asian, they are Oriental but also Chinese. China is not Asia these days.
Worse thing about Solar Industry is dodgy Insurance guarantee companies and policies being offered.
The worst thing is that you,well at least me, cannot get a return in 10 years. Note nobody gives prices for "Artisan" installs.
@@allan4787 A 5kWp solar PV only installation would pay back in less than 6 years if electricity prices remained at 25p per kWh.
@@VinoVeritas_
Not if you do the sums v investment. Investing the money is cheaper
I'm paying 17p
Solar is a waste of time on my very high West facing old slate roof
@@allan4787 Is that 17p fixed for the next 5 years?
@@VinoVeritas_
It isn't but neither are feed in tariffs or overnight electricity tariffs . There are even arguments that feed in tariffs are going to seriously decline in value
Biggest issue with renewable industry is no regulation on common "plug socket" for EV's. Standard format like how our normal sockets are, tech going to USB-C.
Don’t have solar probably too old now for investing in a solar scenario for my house , obviously it’s got my interest though , watching your videos they tend to be common sense with the practicality of experience and knowledge, plus you keep it simple that even I can understand, I was thinking about getting a portable unit to see if it would help with the ever increasing electricity bills , one fact is for certain bills never seem to go down, with that fact of life in mind thought about getting a portable battery that I could use for cooking or heating a room that I could have foldable panels in the garden to power the portable battery that would help with the cost of everyday life , Do you have any plans in the future to do some videos on this concept , I have a large garden so space not a problem, many people who live in flats with a balcony would also benefit from the concept = every little helps , sorry Tesco quite a good slogan , could of course used a different slogan = maybe a song = Don’t let the sun go down on me = George Michael , sorry tend to digress a lot ,
I'm avoiding the proprietary HV battery systems because who knows if you'll be able to buy more batteries when the manufacturer moves on to the next big thing.
With a 16S 48V LFP system you can potentially add more capacity from a number of vendors in the future.
For the guy who said it feels like the software industry 20 years ago, it's more like 30+ years ago, when things were vaguely compatible or not quite compatible.
The huge margins installers are making are attracting all sorts of chancers. Then they go into administration to avoid warranty claims.
The worst part is basically the removal of the entire value chain in Europe.
Not many installers recommending the local industry.
Some installers simply use the cheapest components that are possible.
Also a lot of installers do not care if you bind yourself to a specific product as the devices can only work with there own stuff. E.g buy-in Eco-System.
1:54 "… it's IP67 rated which means you can put it in a bath of water." You chuckled a little when you mentioned that, but there's a lot less chuckling involved when a local river decides to go on vacation in your basement as they increasingly like to do due to you-know-what.
In 2012 I had a 3.9kW array plus inverter installed for £5750 - that included a pre-installation building survey, house energy efficiency survey, commissioning and certification. The system has run continuously without fault since (barring the generation meter (made in the UK!) failing). I have been getting quotes to add a similar sized array on the other side of the roof and excluding the cost of the battery storage the cost of just the solar is now 2x the cost of the original…………… The original system was bought from IKEA and was installed by a local installer who were sub-contracted to IKEA and had previously quoted me in excess of £25000 for the same system in 2011. It doesn’t look to me like the price of solar panels has come down at all, looks like it’s gone the other way!
Unfortunately the cost of panels and batteries, which have reduced greatly in the last 5 years is compensated for by the need of greedy installers to drive around in new Teslas and not get out of bed for less than £600 a day each or worse, whilst pocketing the 0% VAT your no longer required to pay.
@@timoliver8940 440W black panels are less than £63 each.
Have to agree, it's a rip off out there with many not passing on any of the savings.
@@timoliver8940 bet you could have saved a further tenner by not having a ‘house efficiency survey’ 😂
Hope you get a battery in the future… I personally don’t trust grid connection contracts…
@@SolarizeYourLife well my grid connection has only failed once in 30 years due to a distribution cable fault, it can supply more power than I’ll ever need too …no doubting that exceeds the reliability of solar/battery!
I work in Electronic manufacturing (not solar). When a customer phones the first question is "how much?" not "are your products British Made?". Our products are designed and made in Britain therefore they aren't the cheapest which is why we only turn 1 out of every 20 enquiries into a sale. So judge for yourself the pecking order of importance to customers.
made in the UK is a very very lose term as to what "Made" means. if you get a power supply and a box, and put the power supply in the box, that is "Made in the UK" even when the two parts are made in China. that little bit of assembly allows the "made in the UK" claim. or in this case put a made in china battery in a made in china box, that is then "Made in the UK".
"Made in the UK" really isn't what is used to be. these days it really doesn't mean anything and really isn't worth the badge.
Any government regulated term is misleading. That's the idea.
Congrats Jordan! Mate i share your Sig install video all the time here in Australia! Still the best one on the Globe..Well deserved mate.
Much appreciated!
Looking at getting an Sig battery system with gateway here in Ireland at the moment. Only other option is Huawei, but Lord is the stuff expensive here in Ireland.
Just get the government to build a few SMRs and you won’t need to deal with all the hassle of Solar.
How do you find a good reliable installer of solar panels and batteries?
Biggest problem with the British solar industry is the misleading energy harvesting statistics. Basically one can write off any solar gain between the months November to end of March. Another problem is the average size of the average roof is too small to make the installation viable.
I've install 6 PV systems for friends and family. All were the smallest 3.68kW. Each one saves the owner between 5 and 600 pounds per year. The £2000 that these people had in the bank earning 1% interest is now earning them approximately 15% 'interest'.
13:47 the first few vehicles with Bi-directional charging have been availiable for 6 months or more, Nissan Leaf, Ford F150, some MG, Renault, all BYD etc etc. It's often a price-extra option though.
You can tell there's £millions in profits. 4 halls of grifters all selling the same thing.
£1 return from a 99p bet.
As a consumer how do you weed the bad installers from the good. Going by price and choosing the most expensive is not an option, I can only think of go in by Which? Recommendations?
You can't. Every installation needs stringent quality control and on-site verification from and independent body. Which? is just another paper exercise that guarantees nothing.
The worst thing about the solar industry in the uk is the lack of sun
So someone is curious about solar energy and had a mega bad experience with heat pump install, where do they find a legitimate, trust worthy installer??
Just install it yourself and find a electrician to connect it.
The installer will just squeeze the earning of the solar system leving you only ~5% return on your investment without considering the risk of hardware failure after warranty.
Just connect it yourself too. Not exactly rocket science. Of course, if you want the over-priced MCS certificate then you'll have to get an overpriced electrician to glance at your system and charge you a grand. However, so long as you tell the DNO (for free) that you're exporting then just do so and when batteries are (even) cheaper then you can use your solar to charge them. The MCS certification is clearly bogus because it doesn't guarantee a good install.
Exactly. At the moment I can get 5% compounding monthly leaving the cash in the bank. With solar I won't get an equivalent return until I've had a solar system with battery successfully up and running for at least 20 years.
The dodgy installers offering low priced installs know where the price needs to be. The genuine installers need to figure out how to deliver quality for the same price.
@@cottawalla Seems you've made your mind up but I would suggest the finances are the opposite. The last 4kW system I installed cost £1200 in panels and inverter and that will save the customer (my sister) approximately £500 per year. The MCS cert was an extra £450 - (a total rip off) but will be worth it. What isn't worth it currently are batteries - I'm waiting until we're in the £50 per kWh range before installing those - and they can be installed completely separately to the PV.
@mb-3faze it's the battery that tips the equation. Solar batteries are still just far too expensive. Yes, I could save some money over 10 years (pay back time was about 6 years) with just panels but it would be such a small dent in my bill that the hassle isn't worth it.
Recently I have read that Italy customs scrapped some Fiat cars with made in Italy badge because it was not made in Italy....
@@kemots455 the Italian government force Alfa Romeo to change the naming of car Milano as it was made in Poland I believe they called it Junior in the end But you see this with Cornish pasties have to be made in the Cornwall area . The same for Champagne
How is it that solar panels and inverters and lithium batteries are so cheap in Africa compared to UK and US?
Simple. Because we get ripped off for everything in the uk.
How much does a solar panel cost in the uk ?
African panels are likely from forced labour camps, plus you can only charge what people will pay, they likely get benefits of scale.
@@persona250 80 ISH pounds ain't it each ?
@@AdrianMcDaid lol
Apart from loading your battery the grid won't want your electric in 2 years ,why pay when you will have to dump it
Interesting walk-round covering things I missed. The Powervault P5 is floor-mounting only - I think it's a weakness to assume a nice clean garage or a wide outside path will be available - they've skimped on the (British-made) frame specs. The new product I saw & you missed is the Anker Solis S1 battery & hybrid-inverter that matches PW3 for usability & function (save for not 3 MPPT) and beats it for appearance & corrosion resistance. It's a smasher. Worst thing in the industry for me is manufacturers not declaring inverter efficiency at specified powers, so concealing their underperformance at low power (ie in Winter when we need every Watt!). Oh and you should have mentioned AIKO's brilliant partial cell-level optimising panels.
Only problem with this technology is that its evolving so quick its difficult to know if you are getting value for money. You could spend a fortune today for something that might be considered a dinosaur in a year or two. Also how will these systems effect to cost of home insurance. If the quality of installs is generally as poor as your video suggests then insurers are going to have to factor in the increased risk.
Yes, inevitable, in less time than any supposed pay back, if that ever happens, a new system will be two or three times better, and already hogging your available roof space, cost more to update etc. Never will the customers win that much. All the money pours into the 'industry'. But we are all dead in the end.
@@tmyersf4 Exactly. The worst bit is most of these systems want to lock you into a proprietary setup. Can't mix and match. You could (will) be buying equivalent of Betamax vs VHS.
The batteries are vastly overpriced. The top quality (Chinese) batteries almost everyone use cost less than $100kWh. Companies slap a bit of tin around them, add a few cables, bits and bobs and turn around and sell $400-$800kWh - it's insanely profitable - that's why every Tom, Dick and Harry is jumping in.
Are you saving or just prepaying, I mean the batteries need replacing and the cost of them for many people would be the same as their normal energy use over the same period of time. Everyone keeps saying you need to pay more, and the cost on these installs is crazy, might be cheaper to just buy a second home with the amount of money people are spending. It’s not free energy, the panels have huge cost environmentally, and unless you can use it in real time you need to store it, exporting to the grid is not desirable by the grid.
Battery storage is expensive and needs replacing, they also have a huge environmental impact.
PowerVault Team Meeting... Leader: We are at 48% Britain Made Engineers: Lets add a Battlestar Gallatica Cyclone LED across the front 😆
There's no legal definition of 'Made In Britain', so the whole premise is moot.
@@VinoVeritas_ well not if you going to ignore there fact it's written in to commercial law.
@@Space-O-2001 So you'll be able to give me the statutory UK legal instrument it's written into then? Thought not.
@@VinoVeritas_ Did you like your own post lol What about the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 and the Business Protection from Misleading Marketing Regulations 2008. These regulations are part of UK statutory law and cover accurate product labeling to prevent misleading consumers?
@@Space-O-2001 I've never liked my own comments. I'm not that desperate for approval. None of those pieces of legislation contain any reference to 'Made in Britain'.
Some issues I saw just getting into solar this year. Home insurance can be to high for solar. While the price of solar hardware is dropping the price of installers is not. Outdated City permits (For instance the city I live in does not allow solar as its to high a risk for their fire fighters) They don't always come straight out and tell you no, they just don't approve permits and keep you in limbo for years. We have a lady who spent 18k on solar panels and the installer and herself have not been able to get permits from the city for over 18 months. A lot of Companies require a solar installer instead of selling direct for DIY people.
Installers bemoaning the fact that customers only want cheap installs need to present their USP and demonstrate the Value Add - its the 'Why should I buy my Heinz Baked Beans from Waitrose or a Discount Supermarket?' argument - inform and demonstrate value rather than moan about the cowboys.
Sustainable energy? I don't get anything like enough sunshine to sustain my home here in Bristol. Lack of sunshine will only get worse as we head towards Christmas... No way could I go off-grid...and it isn't due to the lack of panels - I have 10KW worth... Endless Cloud cover has been painful this year...
10KW _is_ a borderline lack of panels in the UK in winter.
In summer half an hour of good sun around noon should keep a house going for a day but output is severely reduced in winter &, as you say, with clouds but 10KW should still be enough to produce the 5KWh you likely need for a day.
Are your panels wired in series or parallel? Are they low-light panels? Are they at a good angle? Is there shading? Are all the connections sound? Are your batteries big enough? In good condition? Is your controller up to the job?
As an end-consumer, it would have been nice to know how you explain the differences between these systems to consumers. When booking my system installation two years ago, despite lots of TH-cam research, I didn't know what was important. The big one I learned was the 8kW electric shower, with just a 3kW inverter the other 5kW has to come from the Grid regardless of the battery charge.
When the WiFi frequency was changed by the Broadband provider, I found that the Battery Management System could be changed remotely, but the Solar Edge monitoring system couldn't. It took Solar Edge a long time to realise this! I had assumed that Solar Edge was a professional operation with quality products! The installer, who appears to primarily focus on industrial customers, now wants £250 for a ten-minute job!
I subsequently realised that their consumer relationship is abysmal. Sending one of their team up a ladder on his own with a 40kg battery wasn't clever either.
I'm currently investigating if I need more battery capacity, obviously, I wouldn't go back to my original installer. It's a shame that Artisan doesn't cover as far South as Hertfordshire😒
Any sign of the expected drop in home storage prices? At this stage its pretty hard to see a ROI on buying/selling split vs battery warranted hours. Once that gap closes up a bit more I think there will be a huge uptake in storage, poss even without solar.
This is the problem with the solar and battery storage industry, too many people focus on what they will get back rather than what they system will do for them in the long run. People will quite happily spend £40k on a car which loses it's value as soon as you drive it out of the showroom. 3 years later it worth less than half what you paid for it, that loss pays for the solar and battery storage system. Energy prices will always increase if you can install a system where you don't rely on the grid what do you think is more financially viable?
Given BYD can sell a 50+kwh car for say 15k or Euros, but a home battery of 8-10 kwh capacity is upto what £3,500 speaks volumes.
Home battery overly expensive
@@stuartburns8657 have you looked at Fogstar 15.5 KWH battery for £2500 I have one. Very pleased so far.
@@kjc728 Yes but I believe the pay back stuff will turn out to be nonsense anyway as it only takes a drop in power prices, that all this renewables is supposed to bring about, and all that guessing and assuming of the future is gone. I am basically as you put it doing it as I like the idea of my own power, and the security of power supply. I was unconcerned about pay back and it confuses the devil out of installers pitches. lol
But battery prices are clearly a rip off relative to cars, and all the electronics boxes. Installers, scaffolders, charges for a day's work etc. But as I am old I will be dead before it pays off. Labour will only steal any money I have left as IT. So 🤷♂
@@stuartburns8657 But you can't sell to the grid your car battery, you can make up to £1,000 a year selling your solar generated battery. EV cars drop dramatically in prices after a few years you lose more money that way. Solar and battery storage can get a payback in about 8 years. When does a car ever get a payback?
The price of solar systems in the Uk is an absolute scam i reside in the Uk but also have a family home in bangladesh i have installed an entire solar system over in bangladesh that powers absolutely everything and has been running without any issues whatsoever for the past 15 years the cost was £2000 for that price in the western world you’d probably get just some solar panels and eff all else
It's not the installs that are bad but lack of research and planning that lead to a bad install.
take a trip to Australia and NZ we are installing the enphase gateway now, get your hands on training before it hits your market.
Enphase is dead - at least in central europe. Far too expensive and unreliable, inefficient too. Far better to work with optimizers where needed and not in general. Anyone who had thought they were good has left them after 12 years or so when the real world issue kicked in: dying or dead enphase crap.
Interesting, but how do you actually know who is a good installer of good kit and who isn't. And secondly how do you know if a lower price is in fact better value than a higher price. Its not easy from a domestic customer perspective. Is there a schedule of best practice to compare against?
i have solar and battery and its all installed fine, however my issue as a consumer is you really at the beck and call of what the company wants to install as there preferred equipment due to like MCS and wanting export you cant install your self or there no one out there installing equipment alone and gives MCS etc they want to do they whole job as a comapany, so you can really cant customise systems to your very own specs and have some one in to install it
As a potential customer in the near future looking for a solar/battery system, all this new tech means what? What is worth waiting a few months more for compared to say jumping in now? If you are a domestic customer, what do you look for? What questions should I be asking to make sure no cowboys get a look in? It isn’t about money, it’s about value for money.
We have within the last month had a solar/battery install completed. Figure out from your own usage what size installation and battery storage capacity you require. Don’t oversize and waste money when it’s not required.
@@WillEclipse It’s about much more than that. It needs enough information about the actual kit, devices, connectivity, hardware, software etc to enable a MoSCoW Analysis to be done. I know what my electrical needs are, but what actual hardware/software is needed to meet that need. It’s not just a battery and a set of panels connected with wires. What else must, should, could or won’t be required. When quotes are created how does a consumer know when it’s platinum plated but actually rubbish when the plating is scratched off?
I honestly don't think the tech is moving all that quick really, there are only a few new items. It's just got much bigger as more businesses joining in.
Panels: Just get type N bifacial panels now as pricing has narrowed to almost nothing.
Hybrid inverters: Very much the same. It's usually the software that is better or worse. Some people want the best software because managing their solar/battery is like a second job to them. Others literally never log in and just leave it.
Batteries: Mainly software again and which glossy case you like. But there are outliers. Powerwall 3 for example. High output and 3x MPPT so worth the extra if you need those things. But equally don't pay for what you don't need. If you have had 3 short power cuts in the last 7 years you probably shouldn't be all that bothered about house backup options.
Remember costs work both ways. Don't necessarily pay Rolls-Royce prices when at the end of the day the installers are buying the same panels, inverter, and batteries (Nissan Micra). You want a fair price not an expensive price. Everybody wants to earn a fair wage. Get an itemised quote with products and labour. If people aren't willing to itemise labour with their day rate then look for another quote.
Just get the size you need. The market hasn't really changed that much the last 10 years. Yeah the panels have increased in watt, but that's mostly due to they are much bigger today. The efficency has grown some but not much really. Yeah there is new software but how says that will be alive in 10 years? and what do you really need that for other than nice grapich to see produciton that nice for maybe a month.
Instead make sure the inverter and battey if installed can speak a common language. Most are able to communicate over modbus even on consumer level. Meaning you can take the raw data and use if you want to go the cheap route with for example Home assistant.
Chargers on the other hand use Ocpp, there own protocol but most smart models can do it, just Tesla crap that doesn't.
I for instance have a Huawei inverter and read data over modbus into Home Assistant, also installed a modbus energy meter get values for import and export, then scripts comparing produced and exported to weather and switches heating, warm water, ventilation on/off I had some play to get a car charger to regulate charing speed but not there yet....
Trouble is looks are just skin deep, I had a solar install 5 years ago, not good had to get another company to put it right. Needless to say the company I used when into liquidation and no doubt started up under another name. Now all is good but after those repairs and not one but four car charge points and two inverters fortunately all changed in warranty.
Really interesting video...although now having watched a few of your videos Jordan, I concerned about out our 2 year old installation. It wasn't cheap to us, but I do wonder if some corners cut... are there any independent assessors out there that check previous installations that could be recommended in the Southampton area?
Drop us an email we can help
I liken solar installers like the double glazing industry, very poor. I'm certain there are decent installers out there but there has to be an easy way to find you making it impossible for cowboys to sustain a business. However, consumers MUST NOT be ripped off by any installer. Therefore decent installers must provide a breakdown of their costs.
Whilst I am very impressed with solar, and the legislation that goes with it, I am amazed that the industry does not standardise the size of the panels to enable roofs to be integrated into the roof fitting blank modules if not wanted on new builds.
Problem with the solar industry is that all of it should be unnecessary if planning and management of the national grid was concerned with reducing price!
I hate products that claim AI integration but are no different than what existed a year ago from that company. Just bad marketing. Sorry but a chatbot AI is just a speech model and does nothing for power usage. All these companies are just modifying their already existing algorithm slightly to integrate Chat AI features, or changing nothing and just rebranding.
Everyone thinks when we say AI today it is thinking, which is not the case. They are thinking about True Artificial Intelligence like iRobot, not the algorithm based AI we have today. It is just coding done by another AI model. True thinking AI isn't even decades away from being possible, and might even require quantum computing to become mainstream.
This is why you see trash vape companies listing AI on a mod which would add nothing anyway even if it had AI, which it does not. It is just the same vape from last year, they just lie. F companies for adding buzzwords to their products.
Come to Australia, see what is going wrong, before we were paid to export, now they want to charge us for exporting
Can't believe that the heat shrink break out boots are a new idea to the public here in the UK. Used these almost twice a week down in New Zealand when I moved there in 2006. Made by Raychem. even brought back a shit load when I moved back in 2021. Funny though, I used these on Naval warships and subs back in the 80's, again made by Raychem.
Congratulations on your award
Strange ... the solution is always for the customers to pay more ... never for the government to keep its fingers out of the customers/installers/sellers pockets...
I kinda feel its booming, mainly due to the now affordable batteries
Were Oxford PV at this event? I heard they have just released there first perovskite panels, would have been good to hear from them and see the new panels.
They were at the event but they did not have a booth for the event, unfortunately. At least from what we could find out.
Hi Jordan the question I keep getting asked can we have a wind turbine fitted to our solar system and connect it directly into a hybrid inverter I have looked into it but it doesn’t seem possible at the moment have you ever heard about this
Main problem sales sales sales is what it's all about but that's not helping quality installs as all they want is deposit signed on the line ( that's why they like MCS ) yes their installers get a day or 2 to crack it in🤦 basically its the new double glazing but will be blazing if it continues .All you need is A Good Spark who is NICEIC OR NAPIT and we Dont need a second inspection a year and another fee.Small family business 40 plus years solar since 2010 not MCS as its a con it offers me or my customers NOTHING that helps as we Dont take deposits and clients only pay after its fitted and they have used it for a week or so and we offer next day problem solving if any kit has a problem and we swop out and then deal with the manufacturer as it should be.
The worst thing is the configurators and installers. The best thing is the technology but will be the worst thing as the industry keeps leap frogging itself and no standards.
Now panels are cheap - £60-90 each. Some companies will be charging £12-15k for what is £4k of equipment and £500 of scaffolding. It shouldn't be 3x markup for salesman going door-to-door. It would be good if it could almost be a government backed company with a set price. £6000 for say 12x450w panels and 10kWh battery + £250 if on 2 roof aspects vs 1. It used to be only GivEnergy that had the best battery inverter solution - but looks like there's lots of others on the market now.
Greed by the installers is a huge problem. Just the attitude of that man in the intro 'I know what we are worth', basically arrogant and greedy. I expect to be very very well paid. As I 'can' extort it. The problem is not just the cowboy types. Good work should cost no more than bad. Do it right first time.
None of it is that hard, it is only assembling other people's components, pretty basic. Basic Lego really. Ok yes it needs some tech electricians knowledge not denying that. But as a craftsman that made goods from scratch, sheet and wire, made patterns for shapes to be cast, actually making things, not merely assembling bits like plumbing parts or electrical work, the actual work is really basic not that 'valuable' or difficult really. This is why people used to DIY, the work is very very very easy, the problem only comes with the knowledge to connect correctly, safely etc.
That guy will be out of business within 2 years and likely working for a day rate.
Spot on totally agree 🤔👏😎
What I object to most though is, that Installers add a hefty Premium on top of the price for Components. I accept that they need to make a profit in the materials as well, but if I can get the exact same product for half the price, then that's something I think needs change IMHO.
@@rolandrohde Yes costs need to be costs not marked up costs. Be at least honest and show you want £X all for yourselves. Not least as people can catch you 'at it' fairly easily!
Are there any more of these shows on. Im in NW england
Imagine posing this question whilst also having a video showing you can’t even make off an MC4 plug.
This guy is a grifter of the highest order.
Would be great to see pre-event promos as I didn't know about this event but may have been interested (assuming they welcome consumers). Lots of great content though on video!
Good point! Glad you enjoyed the video
You all overlook the innovation in panels. The fact you can buy these now all black panels (not silver, with blue cells). Panels hitting 23% efficiency (450w panels). Bifacial. Half-cells. All-black panels. And the price has been tumbling and tumbling to where panels are £60 for a 430w panel. £90 for a 600w panel - it's ridiculous that it's cheaper than a wooden door in B&Q - despite being as big and as heavy, and made of metal, glass and silicon! If panels were still £300, 250w each and blue with silver frames there wouldn't be any industry!!
Solar and Storage are growing beyond exponentially. For very good reason. The growth in the number of solar and storage is like nothing ever seen before. Well, except for the HUGE growth in BEVs. Just as legacy automakers are failing at BEVs, capitalism is making the solar and storage industry confusing and disjointed.
If you want to do it right, do it like Tesla and SpaceX.
Anecdotally ive had a few persistent solar installers trying to convince me to go ahead after a quote
The certification bods and installers do themselves no favours. I look at installs like Artisan does and so much is unnecessary. For safety, you want as few electrical connections as possible. The AC disconnect is unnecessary (the dedicated breaker in the consumer unit is adequate), the multiple DC disconnects are unnecessary (there one on the inverter), the elmlite meter is entirely unnecessary and never read. Every time you add a connection you increase fire and failure risk. Get rid of the disconnects (1 AC, 2DC) that's 12 unnecessary connections and the elmlite meter is another 4 connection potential failure points.
The general comments on poor solar installers, is no different to rooftop solar installers in Australia. Better training packages are needed to help change this trend. Great video and quite funny with the comments on who has the better batteries.
Do you have any recommendations for solar/battery system installers in Scotland?
Worried about spending the money and getting a poor installation.
Hi Scott, I know a few, where
are you based?
great video been following you are you putting the weight on just a question
The perception that it is free, clean, maintenance free, effective free energy. It's not.
15:56 EPS is not a downfall and I think it’s a good option
Worst thing about solar is dealing with sparkys thinking there job is complicated and hard to learn. Charging more money than a Dr. Your Sparky's not brain surgeons.
Why you not a sparky then if it’s so easy?
@@ocdetailsautomotivedetaili1781 because its dull boring and easy.
@@Silversurfer35 clearly…. Dull and boring but easy then you should be a sparky if it’s that easy regardless of it being dull and boring …
14:30 I think your mic battery started to drop off hence all the audio distortion.
It was due to the mic being set too high, for some reason, it was changed here but changed back again so wasn't too peaky for the rest of the video.
You didn't mention the lack of DC isolation
Made in GB is very misleading !!! The case and LED’s bloody he’ll !!! That’s shocking 😮!!!
5:46 led strip will be made in Asia. Casing do you have metal mines? So just software really is made in uk but that’s not 50% of the unit that’s 1% as it’s the firmware lol other software is not in this product they control it
Made in Britain is not a sign of quality.
15:31 120ms! That's _nothing like_ fast enough! 😮 Just about everything computerised (just about everything nowadays) will shut down & need a button pressed to re-start! 😢
10ms is pushing the limits, I have equipment that shuts down that fast 😢
I hope you're not recommending it!
"Don't join the race to the bottom" = I know I am expensive but I claim my customer service is better and I don't want to compete on price. Well that's what the next decade is all about - it's becoming commoditised. If you install my solar I never want to see you again unless I want something - which means everything works and there are no repeat visits. I had 3.5kw solar installed in 2015 for £4,200 - never missed a beat. Don't kid yourselves that competitive pricing means poor - it doesn't. No one should be paying more than £4,500 for a 5kw install today and you should be doing that in a day including paperwork. If you're more expensive than that you're not in the game. Consumers are getting savvy to you now.
Did the battery/ batteries being put in fish tanks on display come from a Franklin battery install that was in flooding incident? 😂
Powervault - Made in Chingland.
For US newbi people? How can we tell if the installation is going to a cowboy installation or a fantastic one ?????
Saying the customer needs to pay more is the exact reason the pricing is rocketing up and not become more affordable as the tech evolves.
Perhaps tackle the lack of legislation and regulation within the industry and investing in the education of correct installation! 🙄
How is the average punter supposed to decide who to opt for ? they get several quotes and inevitably go for the lowest or lowest but one . They don’t have the technical knowledge to assess who is offering a decent package . I’ve spent ages researching and am spending 50k on solar , batteries and heat pumps , I think I’m getting a good install but in reality I have not been trained to know the technical ins and outs . Your and other you tube presentations are helpful for both you and the punter as it helps people in your area , but if you are not lucky enough to be in the vicinity then you are on your own . If you get govt involved with inspectors that becomes a nightmare because it’s govt and they are generally useless ,such as heat geek setting up a network on heat pumps installs helps , is there something similar for solar ?
How do I find a good company Nottingham
Don’t installers need to pass a quality certification program???
17:51 congratulations 🙌
Thanks!
A Tesla Powerwall 3 seems to be available for about £7000 with the gateway, thanks Google. Not sure if I need an inverter. Or to add installation. Perhaps Jason will comment.
I don't want solar it's not worth it for me.
I'm exploring if battery storage is worth it. I don't need battery backup we've had 1 power supply outage in 40 years.
I need a return in 10 years.
Let's analyse the costs of a battery.
It's going to cost me £700 per year to buy (over 10 years) .... I spend about £790 pa on electricity. Perhaps that in itself says it is not worth it for me?
Let's pursue this though I use about 3500 units a year. So each unit's storage cost is approx 20p ignoring conversion losses. I then add in 7p for the cheap overnight electricity. I'm paying 18p .....
Even if we give battery storage 20 years to pay back my unit cost would be similar to the price of buying electricity.
Am i wrong here. Battery only storage of overnight electricity is not worth it to me.
Why would you opt for a battery that is massively overpriced? The Tesla Powerwall is roughly 3X more expensive than other LiFePO4 batteries per usable kWh of storage.
@@VinoVeritas_
I won't!!!
But he's pushing them. I'm trying to get real costs. I'll bet it's £1000 to fit.
1/3 of the price is still not worth it
@@allan4787 How much do you think batteries should cost per usable kWh?
@@VinoVeritas_
A few hundred pounds 🙂
Taking into account conversion losses and an inverter 10p is too much it has to be 5p or less.
I spend £780 pa on electricity at about 17p per KWh. I've no idea how cheap electricity is on overnight tariffs. It has to be 5p per KWh battery costs. If you take into account the cost of money. Maybe investing it and using the interest to pay part of the electric bill. Probably the overhead needs to be less than 5p . That route means that you still have the money after 10 years.
Long ago I decided that solar and batteries are a mugs game Keep your money maybe use the interest to pay fuel bills. It's no hassle.
It's rare that home industry can beat the big boys
@@allan4787 The problem here is your understanding of current costs. If you're basing it on the £7K that the Tesla Powerwall 3 costs, then you obviously don't understand what it is and what's included. Like I said, there are much cheaper options available.
I ended up chasing away my "installer" mid project because he tried telling me that my solar harvest was exactly the same as my daily usage....
After he installed our a grid tied Sunnyboy inverter our energy bill doubled in the coming winter months, upon questioning him, he walked over to the two KwH meters he had installed and pointed out that this was indeed what we used saying the two meters were in agreement, the meter on the grid tie inverters side and the meter on the municipal side. After another two months and me watching our consumption like a hawk, I decided to switch off the solar inverter....
Within the first month our bill was down by half, I again asked him to explain this, and again he walked over to the two meters.... This time he stood there puzzled as all hell claiming that I had messed with the install because I had switched off the inverter.... I asked him how it would be possible that just switching of the inverter would save me power.... He said it would not, I then asked him if he had checked what effect the inverter exporting to the grid would have on our dumb prepaid electric meter...
He said there would be none, upon which I promptly told him to remove his head from his backside, to uninstall ALL his equipment and to give me my money back. Obviously it was not that easy, but, he said that our energy usage coincided with the solar production, upon which one electrical engineer asked him if our houses consumption was a stable 4KwH per day, and he actually said yes, because that is what the meters were showing....
I stay in Namibia, my wife and I are BOTH at work during the day we have no children, he was claiming that our house with just standby/ refrigerator consumption was 4KwH per day exactly matching the Sunnboy inverters production.... Bloody sausage..... For those who have not yet figured it out.... The Sunnyboy inverter exporting to the grid over our dumb pre paid electric meter was causing the meter to deduct units while the inverter was sending power back to the grid..... This guy, could not figure that out.......
We did win, we got our money back and I ended up installing my own solar it is isolated from the grid dependant utilities that remain connected to the municipal feed via a double pole double throw isolator switch, I have even upgraded our install from lead to lithium..... Sometimes installing it yourself will depend on the intelligence level of the so called installer....
Hello artisan! where is your normal electrical videous? Luke amd evryone?
According to The Sparky Podcast, all the staff left because he was touching them inappropriately.
The sig energy unit that charges the car, could make positioning the battery harder, if it's in the stack.
I originally liked the idea, not so sure at the moment.
Powervault... Made in Britain... Nope...the term 'Assembled in the UK' would be more accurate...!
'Box made in UK' would be more accurate. To me assembled in UK means the bulk of everything, right down to PCB's, should be made in UK - but nope, a few complete modules made and assembled in China are plugged into each other into a metal cabinet - which was made in the UK.
A lot of cowboys in the industry and a lot of really bad Chinese equipment. Done well solar is an awesome solution, I have lived on solar for 10 years. I design and build systems, I'm horrified at what some people charge for poor quality systems, there are a lot of people who are prepared to rip people off.
The sig stack ip66, i thought the home one sigstore was ip67
This the energy is not free take a look at how dirty it is to make these panels and recycle these.
Powervault , made in Britain? Well not the cells, not the electronics but we do make the steel box … with imported steel now that we have closed port talbot blast furnace … good job 😕😕😕
Port Talbot will continue to make steel. It just won't need all the workers it previously did.
@@VinoVeritas_ no Port talbot will not ‘make steel’ as the blast furnace has closed. It may precess steel made by others, steel made in India by Tata for example, but that’s another her thing.
@@andyxox4168 You see, this is the problem we have in the world. People that are ignorant. The brand new electric arc furnace is expected to be up and running at the Port Talbot site by the end of 2027. The feed stock for the electric arc furnace will be reclaimed steel that will undergo recycling and will be smelted and rolled into brand new steel commodity products.
@@VinoVeritas_ .. exactly and ignorant people think that is the same as ‘manufacturing steel’ which it is not, nor can an electric arc furnace ‘smelt’ steel as smelting is the process of releasing metal from ore.
And of course there will have to be a fully functional backup gas power plant in case of loss of power from our new wonderfully expensive but unreliable renewable powered grid.
@@andyxox4168 Autocorrect caused the 'smelted/melted' error. To deny that brand new steel commodity products will be being produced at Port Talbot, regardless of feed stock, is totally disingenuous. Should we just put all used steel into landfill and continue the energy intensive process of 'smelting' from ore feedstock? Whether or not gas will be used to generate electricity for the arc furnace is a moot point.
Interesting to hear you say you use JA solar panels, in the last Sheffield Hallam uni report (Nov 23) JA solar were rated Very High in exposure to Uyghur forced labour camps. Panels maybe cheap but I would urge you to look in to why that is Jordan. Maxeon, Meyer Burger, REC group N peak and Alpha were the only ones rated as likely free from the forced labour camps.
what about warehouse workers at amazon in the uk?