@@JR-ez3zdraven was ahead of the times on this because she was actually advocating for her rights. 7 years later, she married a beautiful woman and Candace remained the same stunted child in her belief.
I don't think Candice wasn't "going at it" with anyone. She didn't roll her eyes or make anything personal. I disagree with Candice but respect her ability to conduct herself as an adult rather than the childish manor Raven was behaving it.
+DeeDeeMr88 I saw that. It was such an intense stare YET.....looks can be deceiving. Maybe something in Raven was trying to process Candace's viewpoint without breathing actual dragon fire on her. And Candace was sooo trying to be neutral and not create any animosity when Raven was giving her very emotional perspective. It is so interesting to watch people bring forth opposing views because not everyone can (or tries) to agree to disagree peacefully, unfortunately.
etf42 polease do Raven! If you wanna be a lesbian be respectful, Candace was trying her best to be respectful to you. Your whole I’m queer I’m here, get over it, shows us that it’s your way or the highway. Candace is Christian and she could’ve been like most and bashed you morally, but being firm and tactful was her way of being kind without her beliefs bombarding the issue. You knew she was Christian and pulled the bully card out!
Raven Symone looks like she's about ready. To kill someone with that look, you know, she doesn't have to agree with Candice at all That's fine. But don't sit there and act like a little child and throw tantrum just because someone doesn't want to agree with you. There's a thing called agree to disagree But I guess Raven Symone thinks that only applies to her..
@@kelleymariejones6388 I 100% agree I don't know why that show still on the air if you've noticed most of their co-host of either quit or got fired because of different views that don't agree with the panel there one sided people they say they're the view but they're really just one of you and it's theirs and there's only.
Its called walking away... Candace still has the right to be there. She hasn't committed a crime offense that forces her to leave. Raven doesn't have a restraining order. So yeah.. It shows a lack of knowledge and pure ignorance to say something sporadically like that Raven. The bible, which has been proven to be historical correct, states nothing about race or hate. It states that we must not entertain evil. Homosexuality is automatically not love. It's automatically lust. Yes, man and woman can lust too which is unrighteous. Men and women have a purpose according to the word of God. To procreate and to teach the next generation the word of God.
@@ctrl.sapphic74 You're taking my comment out of context. I responded to a comment in reference to people not associating themselves with someone. The bakery did not want to associate themselves with someone against the natural use of a man and a woman. Raven said she did not want to associate herself or speak with someone disagreeing with her point of view. She can just walk away.
I'm a lesbian and I reckon, if someone doesn't want to bake a cake because it conflicts with their morals/ beliefs, then they shouldn't be forced to or punished for not. Isn't that supposed to be the point now, everyone is entitled to their opinion?
let me guess you live in a city and have many choices. some of us gays live in rural area where we have few choices. and before you say "then move". 1 my job put me here. 2. we should be allowed to live where we want. it is a free country
That’s not how you should run your business. You will always disagree with someone in all walks of life and if you can’t seem to agree to disagree when it comes to this you shouldn’t be running a business.
Sexual orientation is a protected class in the state of Oregon. Therefore you can't discriminate sexual orientation based on religion. That's why the bakery was fined. If the business knew the public state laws this wouldn't have happened.
It's not ok to discriminate, it's also not ok to force people to do something they don't want to do. If they don't want to make the cake go elsewhere. I wouldn't want to give the company my business or the publicity.
That same argument could have been used back in segregation days. The fact remains if you are going to use your religion to discriminate in a business you better follow the Bible to a tee. That means asking every couple that wants a wedding cake weather they had premarital sex or a child out of wedlock or if it’s their first second third or fifth
@@amandajones3973 I'll say this once and only and not touch on it again because it's not what this post is about. People need to stop comparing the experiences of Black people to that of the LGBTQ+ community. Yes both have been discriminated against but its not the same. It's like comparing apples and oranges. Listen, in life there are always going to be bigots. You can choose to upset your life by going after them, which ultimately just gives them free publicity and your money and the money of all your followers who are going to them to try and prove a point. Or you can go to a company that values you and give them your business, promote them in the media. I understand posting about the bakery, I understand going to the news about the bakery but suing them so they are forced to do something they truly don't have the heart to do? Pointless. Literally didn't teach them anything other than... well nothing, it taught them nothing.
If you're not willing to serve EVERYONE in the community then don't open a fucking bakery. If I as an athiest opened a bakery and refused to serve anyone I saw wearing a cross people would be freaking out. 🙄
@@katherinejordan8018 they did serve them. On numerous occasions. They just didn't make the wedding cake. In no way do I agree with them. Personally I feel like they weren't practicing what they preach, but that's not the point. If someone didn't want to make my wedding cake yes I'd put them on blast but no I would not take it as far as that couple did. I refuse to force someone to do something for me when they don't truly want to. I get posting about it, going to the papers/news, spreading the word in the neighbourhood in general. But suing them? That was too much. Just give your support to another bakery that supports you.
@@maddsluiz1296 It wasn't about forcing them to do anything. It was about the principle. Businesses shouldn't be allowed to use their religion as an excuse to discriminate against people for just being themselves. It was never just about the cake.
Candace Owen's is a politician and wasn't even on the show. Candace Cameron Bure who portrayed DJ on Full House/Fuller House, isn't rude or wasn't being rude. She was very gracious. The hosts of the view are all very rude and ignorant. The view needs to and should be canceled
You can just tell either Whoopi is a total idiot our she’s just ignorant because by doing anything for this ceremony they are showing support and they have every right as business owners to say no and any government trying to force them to do it is attacking their freedom of religion and their rights to run a business
@@martinthomas1293 Freedom of religion has its limits. People used to believe it was against the bible for people of two races to get married and refused them service until the civil rights act. You can't just pull out any belief that affects/discriminates others and hide behind your religion.
@@martinthomas1293 their argument is actually against themselves. they cannot claim religious exemption over lifestyle when they offered to make any kind of cake for them but a wedding cake. if it was a biracial couple, maybe you could see the legality more easily. you cannot argue against yourselves then expect to win in court.
@@Ray-cv3qe I dont remember any interpretation in the bible that directly says a biracial couple cannot marry. However the bible is pretty clear on same sex marriage
I can't believe this was a topic on the show and not a single person even read the court documents to know what actually happened!! Wow!! They weren't sued for not baking a cake. They were sued for mocking the lesbian couple on Facebook and giving out their home mailing address. They were harassed, bullied, etc. by SO MANY people!! They called the state to complain (to avoid suing) and because of their agreement to keep their foster children safe from harassment, the state threatened to take away their children. They were undergoing so much trauma that they couldn't leave their home, go to work, nearly lost their children, etc. They finally sued for emotional damages and rightfully won!!
Kenny De All you did was prove everyones point, you people blow things out of proportion. Why would you assume I'm trying to be macho just because I don't act like a women? If it wasn't for your parents being straight you wouldn't be here crying right now.I understand sperm donors but that's relatively new. So my point is throughout all of history men laid with women until now and gays wanna raise children I don't want my children to think that's normal. Do you see what I'm saying the world is changing so sin can be accepted, and of course it is we live in last days. But do you wanna contribute to the issue?
Kenny De You sound like a women scorned. I've never argued or talked to a gay man before. Don't know why I just did, you have ruined my view on gay men. And P.S don't try and sound so smart it actually actually has and opposite affect. The shorter the sweeter, that way you make points not essays. But why would I argue with a Brick Wall, you just keep saying the same thing over and over. Not considering or respecting my views, and under the delusion you're smarter than me?
"I don't think this is discrimination at all" a man refusing to give a wedding cake to couple because they are gay isn't discrimination? if a Muslim couple was refused a cake because of a christian baker everyone would freak so why is this different.
+thisisme luiza First of all, in the bible it states we are to respect other people's religions, so by the Christians refusing the muslims service, that would be against their religion. On the hand of the christians refusing the gays service, people forget that not respecting someone's religion is also discrimination. Right there in the beginning, Raven talked about people not being allowed to discriminate against sexual orientation AND religion. The religion part is always forgotten about. In situations like this, people always hold the sexual orientation right MILES higher than religion. Why is it always the people who are refusing to go against their own religious beliefs who are being punished THOUSANDS of dollars. Don't you think its discriminatory to sue someone because they are devout in their religion? It's not like they're the Westboro Baptist 'Church' (I don't think it should be called that) who hold up 'God hates f**gs' signs up. I personally think that in the case of a bakery being asked to bake a birthday cake for someone they know is gay, then they should absolutely bake the cake, a gay person's birthday has NOTHING to do with what you're against. In the case of a gay person asking the bakery to bake a wedding cake, the christians should have the right to practice their religion, they shouldn't be forced by law to break their religion OR to be charged $135,000 like the bakery was, when the gay couple can just go to another bakery. A gay wedding IS directly related to what they're against, and the christians should have a right to not have to participate in something that goes against their religion.
@Amy Bradley that's her husband lol. It's not some random joe on the street. I'd hope all married couples would act like that and have happy marriages.
@@sandra-jones as a gay man I respect people's religious beliefs. I am a liberal I think we have it wrong and we are doing what we don't want to be done to us. to be forced to live or do things we don't agree with. Id respects their religious beliefs even if I think they are full of crap and find another bakery. we don't always have to be so confrontational.
She's only giving those dirty looks because she doesn't understand what the other woman is talking about. Raven gives looks to make up for her lack of intelligence on those subjects.
Stew Meat cause people are constantly ostracized for being different like that. All Candace was trying to say is that she understands where she is coming from A lot of people are just brought into the understanding of it being in the wrong You should treat others the way you should want to be treated so if Candace is willing to understand Raven why can't she be willing to reach out to her she isn't trying to hurt or bully her. She just wants to reach out to her and show her that kind of friendship and support I just think that it's really sad that she can't see that People treat me different cause I'm more sensitive trusting and naive I don't like feeling isolated from my friends. cause they always have others they converse with a lot more. It's hurtful and you feel alone in it Candace doesn't need to push but I do hope that in time that she will understand that Candace's intentions were good and will come back around. When she starts looking for a friend to reach out to for help I would hope she'd look to Cameron cause Cameron sees so much good in Raven and would never mean to come off wrong if she did.knowing her she'd apologize for stepping on any toes
Obviously, people don't know how to read an article or look at actual court docs. Here's what happened: The owners of the bakery refused to bake a lesbian couple a cake. The couple sent them a complaint, so the owners of the bakery mocked them on Facebook and posted their names and their home address. They began receiving threats, harassment letters, and were bullied in public. The couple contacted the state (doing everything they could to AVOID going to court or suing them). Unfortunately, they had foster kids and the state had responded that it was part of their fostering agreement to shield the children from harassment and keep them out of the public spotlight. The state threatened to take away their children. The whole ordeal was so stressful that they could barely leave their house or go to work. The lesbian couple finally decided to sue the bakery owners for emotional damages due to the harassment and nearly having their children taken away. The happy ending here is: they successfully adopted the foster kids and were awarded over $100k in damages. The End
KTnarnia if this is truly what happened, then yes I do understand why they sued.. it’s hard to believe that the owner or owners made fun of them on Facebook.. that’s so ugly .. i agree with their right to refuse but to make fun of them on such a public forum and disclose their address seems unnecessary and for what reason.. !! need to see the documents this was wrong if true..
Great if that article because that business should not have been open to the public. He did come on the trying to back statement up with emotional and spiritual convictions. But he was dead wrong and was discriminating them
@@winniejohnson5559 um no, it's still wrong to refuse service purely based on things people cannot change. that's idiotic thinking. whether you "agree" (ugh i hate that because being gay is not an opinion just as being straight isn't) or not, keep that out of business ordeals
I’m a lesbian & I wouldn’t embarrass myself dealing with a Christian bakery for my wedding bc there’s way enough bakeries in this country that would be happy to service a gay wedding. I also do believe in religious freedom as long as it isn’t used as an excuse to harm someone, & I don’t consider refusal of service emotional damage, sorry not sorry. I just think that it should be straightforward in writing, sign on the door, so no one even has to come in & feel ashamed. If you’re a Christian bakery, be explicit about it. And if you’re not a Christian bakery, make sure your policies are known. Also, there is a very clear difference here between denying someone a cake for BEING gay vs having personal involvement in a gay wedding you don’t agree with. A baker has a right to refuse me service for a wedding cake, but not for any type of cake that has nothing to do with my sexuality. THAT is the key difference between discrimination & religious freedom.
As a Christian, YES U GET IT THANK U !!! Luv u girlie. Its so refreshing to see people who can actually separate accepting/supporting certain BEHAVIORS from supporting and loving the HUMAN BEING ☺️❤ And as a straight person, I would not walk into a gay bar and expect to find a date nor would I feel entitled to do so 😂
This is one of the most articulate comments Ive seen on TH-cam. You get a gold star 🌟 . Very well detailed, explaining both sides of the matter. Im proud to see there's wisdom out here.
@Leah Rachelle thank you for that so much! Im a Christian and I wouldn't go to like a science museum and yell at the workers for taking the secular view. You have to respect other people's opinions. Thank you 😊
I love Candace. I’m not conservative, but she is. She states her opinion and beliefs with respect. She can actually agree to disagree. Right or wrong, agree or disagree, we need to respect.
The thing they want to get rid of now in teaching, they wanna think we were blackwashing history but it's not nothing but the truth if not worse if it bothers you change it not teach your kids to take two steps back
As a gay person, I still don't quite understand why would someone going so far to have homophobic person baking cake for you. It's not like they are public service and you already pay tax for them. I'd totally waste no time to change bakery in heartbeat. Like, they totally are not gonna puke or spit in the cake.
tuck295q ok now what if its a small town, and it is the ONLY bakery in the town, and the only other bakery is a 2 hr drive away? what if that bakery has the lowest prices, and you are on a budget and all the other bakery are $100 more? or what if you had a piece of that wedding cake at another wedding and it was the best you had ever had? you would have a right to have a cake made there. the other problem is the couple did not go there knowing it was a homophobic bakery, they had been having cakes made there for years, they never turned them down before. I agree I would not want a cake made by them because they would probably do something nasty to the cake, if they were made to do it. but we know it is a homophobic bakery now so we can choose not to go there.
tuck295q I understand where you are coming from, but they should not be able to discriminate against any one, if this is aloud to continue, then as they say will be a slippery slope, sure ok they dont have to make a LGBT cake now, next it will be they dont want to make a wedding cake for people of different races, or different religions, because its against their beliefs, and who knows where it will go from there, if this keeps going businesses wont have to wait on someone just because of their race, or religion, or non religion, or because they wear glasses, or have a prosthetic arm or leg, or because someone is disabled, or because they are old............ the list will go on and on. it all needs to be stopped now, before it goes that far.
Meri justus It would be far more effective to come out to the public and cause backlash there of such practice rather than government involvement. The reason is it shows the beauty of how society should be and not relying on government so much and they will lose customers. Hopefully then, they will change their behavior. Compare to this: Think about it, the couple wanted to give money to homophobic people so much they waste their time files a complaint to the court instead of focusing on their wedding. They want that cake that might not be save so much they want to give money to and then make them pay to the government and then take the cake rather than going to the one that might make better cake because they are sincere with the couple. Tell me, if any of this make any senses?
@@fabianchavez3444 Perhaps. Either way, Raven was not here for it! I'm glad Candace stood to her views as well. People can believe what they want to on both sides, no one has to affirm the other, they just need to respect each other.
Eric Lee LeBeau Cool, so i can demand you make me a cake for my KKK rally? Swastika shaped cake, you have to make it, or i'll sue you and bankrupt your business.
The fine wasn't about not refusing to bake a cake. The fine was for the bakery posting the name, address and phone number of the couple in question. This led to the couple getting death threats against them and their children. They were forced to move because of this and change their phone number. Whether the owners of the bakery were right in denying them service is a completely different story. Besides they got all that money back and more through a Gofundme campaign.
I don't about any of that. If people were making death threats, those actual people should be held accountable. Google your name. I'll bet you'll find practically every address you've ever lived at, including your current address, come up.
@@newlycreated1864 Actually no. Believe it or not I'm almost a ghost on the internet. I have no social media under my name. All phone numbers I've ever had are unlisted. And I don't advertise my address. Google my name and you'll find a Linked In account and a couple of really old posts from my University days. Those you have to really search for. And yes I've done this and yes nothing has come up. And that's the way I'd like to keep it.
But why? It does not make any sense. Why is it acceptable to discriminate against innocent, paying customers who did nothing wrong. Homophobia is disgusting.
@@davidbak6984 Privately owned business can deny service to whomever they want or at least should. Freedom of choice should provide that. However, interracial isn't the same as homosexuality.
Candace stays calm and presents her views rationally without insulting anyone or being rude. The others constantly interrupt and clown while she is talking.
My gosh Raven is coming across real sane in this. You may agree or disagree with Candace, but at least she’s civil and not confrontational from the getgo
Really?!?! Because she got mad when Candace almost interrupted her but she interrupted Candace multiple times when she was speaking. Seems like a double standard
@@kn1993gua That's just how they operate on The View. Also, Candace interrupted first - why should Raven not treat her the same way she had been treated?
I agree with Candace. As a man interested in other men...if someone doesn't agree with it or whatever, that's their right. I'm not going to try to drag a person's business through the mud because they have an opposing viewpoint. I mean, they're willfully rejecting money, which I'm going to go give to someone else. Just respect their FREEDOM OF RELIGION, the same way you expect others to respect your freedom to love who you want. It's not like they were advocating hate or violence against the couple. Some people go too far...it was probably just so they could sue anyway. Everyone using "justice" as an excuse to receive free money. Nonsense...
hi, actually if you read the case (it's public and online, too). The gay couple were suing because the bakery shared their personal information about where they live and social media. They had just adopted too, so when all the hate came to them from extremist religious people, they were about to lose their adopted kid. So, they sued the bakery for arbitrarily sharing their personal information and putting their lives at risk. Please research information first and don't just regurgitate what someone else says. Also, in my opinion, being a bakery that doesn't wanna bake something for a homosexual couple, is the same as me refusing someone service to a black person, or even as stupid as thinking someone is "ugly" or "not american enough" or "fat" ...... it leads to more silly, stupid discrimination.
@@carolinas5132 That side of the political spectrum doesn’t like to educate themselves too much, and you know there’s always a gay man willing to suck up to them in order to gain approval (as if that ever worked).
@@carolinas5132 If you are talking about Masterpiece v Colorado CRC, "The gay couple were suing because the bakery shared their personal information about where they live and social media". This is patently false.
@@carolinas5132 I'm not "regurgitating" anything. I'm commenting on the video as it was presented. Regardless of whether the information in the video is accurate or not, I have given my opinion on the video as it is. If the video said the couple was attacked by bears, I would've then commented about the bears, regardless of whether it was true or not, because it would be my opinion on the video. It is nothing more, nothing less. And while I agree it's silly to turn away the couple, I think it's sillier to go to court over it, ruin a business, drag a family through the mud, when there are dozens of other bakeries that would gladly have your business. Make a comment about it on Facebook or something, and recommend your friends and family stay away from their bakery. When they start losing a lot of business, maybe they'll rethink their operations. I never said I thought discrimination was right, but I respect a person's freedom to religion and opinion, even if it differs from my own. Everyone screams "Tolerance! Acceptance! Love!" yet are completely unwilling to tolerate, accept and love people with conservative viewpoints. Talk about hypocritical.
@@lartisteautravail I'm not sucking up to anyone, I'm not seeking approval, and I have nothing to prove to you or anyone else as far as how educated and intelligent I am. You sure do have a rather hateful, judgmental spirit toward someone you've never met, though. I'll refer you to my reply to Carolina S, most specifically the part about people on "that side of the political spectrum" who always seem to prove themselves hypocrites. They call for tolerance and acceptance for everyone, then attempt to silence and squash any opinion or viewpoint that differs from their own. Conservatives are allowed to have their opinions, too, and they have the same rights as you, whether you like it or not.
LOLOLOL @ Raven's face the whole time, especially at the ending. She wanted to slap her so bad. Now to the topic at hand, Cameron and her kind are ridiculous with this argument. A business does not have a right to refuse a customer based on their sexual orientation which is what that business is doing. Do not bake wedding cakes if you don't want to serve ALL couples getting married. You cannot be choosing and picking who to bake for when you serve the public. I am against eating meat, does it make sense to become a waiter and refuse serving people who select meat from the menu? DO your job or leave the business. Either they stop baking wedding cakes, merge their business to a church so they can FREELY discriminate, or close their entire business
***** the last time I checked racism is not protected by the law. The Jewish baker will be sued based on religious or racial bigotry unless he can prove he withheld service because they were racist and not because they were arab
johnosahon The argument they're making is it has nothing to do with their orientation. Anyone who's informed knows this bakery has dealt with this couple in the past with no issues. It was the fact they wanted a wedding cake that became an issue. it wasn't that they were gay, or that they were together; it was that by selling and baking them a wedding cake they were supporting an action they do not believe in. I believe within that specific context they have that right to do so, and the government is wrong to fine them. It would be no different if a black baker was asked by a klansmen to bake a white supremacy cake; the baker would have every right to refuse. It's not a matter or race or sexual orientation, but a matter of supporting an action you do not agree with.
Devin Anderson 1. Your first paragraph makes NO sense. They are NOT selling them the cake because they are GAY. How do you separate the orientation from the wedding? They are marrying each other because in part they are GAY, so what are you talking about? With that excuse ANYONE can deny anyone anything. They can deny baking cakes for straight atheists and people from other religions after all, Christians do not believe in other faiths. Where do you draw the line? 2. Now to the second paragraph, first of all racism is NOT protected under the law, so the baker can refuse to bake a white supremacy cake if he chooses to. Second, comparing sexual orientation to racism is insulting. No one was born a racist, it is a learned behavior ironically just like religion. Thirdly, comparing a black baker who is discriminated by white racists to bigoted bakers discriminating AGAINST gays is just laughable. At the end of the day, as a gay man I don't want to give 1 cent to a bigoted business, and I rather know if the business owners are bigoted, so I welcome their childish behavior, like a cake is really important in the large scheme of things. The least they can do if they really want to discriminate is put a very large sign "WE DON'T BAKE WEDDING CAKES FOR GAY PEOPLE HERE", so i turn and leave the store and don't waste my precious time. Lets see how long the business last that way.
johnosahon It isn't a wedding, so they didn't make them a wedding cake. Just because you change the definition doesn't mean you have to force other's to follow it. They did bake them cakes and serve them before, but would not make a wedding cake since same sex is not a definition marriage. They would be supporting an unholy union. Why does every one have to agree with you? Go be a fascist somewhere else.
Sawan Arora You are making no sense. The law of the land now includes marriage between same-sex couples, and sexual orientation is now/or in the process of being protected all over America, so yes the law is forcing you to follow ....the law, just as you would do with race, religion or gender. So if you don't want to serve the gay public then don't open a business that serves the WHOLE public, or simply ban marriage related products. Sorry but get used to it, just as racists had to get used to serving blacks in public businesses. #suckItUp
Phillip Smith You're absolutely right, Phillip. But if history has shown us anything, the reduction of anybody's civil rights to free speech is now a big thing for the LGBT nation. So I'm not surprised at the backlash re-action from the LGBT nation. It's like they want our tongues cut off because the opinions are not in their favor. And you're right, Candace handled the debate with eloquence and class and didn't resort to childish insults and name calling.
People have rights period! Don’t get it confused with your agenda and try to force people to believe your side. Raven you can believe what you believe and Candice can believe what she believes. These people had a right to not participate in something they did not believe in. Stop tearing down people who have rights to refuse service.
wha- no there is a difference between having opinions n jus straight hating n not respecting the lgbtq community its the lgbtq rights to have a wedding cake n the thing abt 'choosing who to associate urself w' tht makes no sense its jus hateful if u choose to stay away from ppl jus bc of their sexual orientation or race
Naing Nandar Aye you’re calling it hatful just to convince me that I am wrong to believe a certain way. Regardless of how you feel about it. If someone doesn’t want to make your cake because they have their belief then you have every right to find a cake maker who will make your cake and participate in your lifestyle. Respect that people have find it is morally right to them. Don’t allow your feelings to get in the way of people’s freedom.
Pancake Lover treating a Gay person how? To refused to bake a cake for a marriage that according to their belief is immoral? If you are told follow what you believe then do it. These people had every right to follow those convictions. It’s not just American Christian who believe this way. Majority of the world and different religions also believe this way about homosexuality as not following moral living.
@@tiffanyweber3028 That's their problem not homosexuals. Its dumb. I'm not saying they should he sued or anything. Im saying its arrogant and wrong. Im aware that not only American christians feel that way, doesn't change what I think on the matter. That poor couple. Hopefully they found someone else to bake them a beautiful wedding cake. Cause it shouldn't have mattered anyway.
@Don K No they have a right to refuse service being a private business. Liberals started this crazy stuff now it is the rule for all businesses. I bake cakes and every one that knows me know not to ask me to make a cake that goes against my morals and principals. Personally how could you eat something from someone who made it with a grudge?
@Don K No i wouldn't tamper with a cake i made. Nor would I be forced or guilted into doing something that goes against my beliefs. This is still a free Country.
All these businesses refusing to serve the LGBT community, because of their "religious belief" I wonder how many of them would refuse the service form an EMT that is Gay, or A fire fighter that is a Lesbian, or a Police officer who is Bi, if they were hurt, or there business was on fire, or someone had stole from them, how many of them would refuse to accept mail from a Transgender mail carrier? or would refuse the Help from a Dr.,in the ER, because, she is a lesbian? NONE OF THEM, but that should be against their 'RELIGIOUS BELIEFS" also? Or how many of these businesses would refuse to serve someone who is divorced, or who is a single mom, or someone who believes in another religion, or someone who doesn't believe in religion, all things against their "religious beliefs " but THEY WOULD serve them. so NO ITS NOT about religion its about their own selfishness, and hate.
Meri justus It's not about them being gay, it's the gay wedding. They did an interview stating they would have no problem baking a gay person a birthday cake. They just don't want to bake a cake that celebrates something they feel is wrong. You're comparing two COMPLETELY different things.
in their beliefs, it is also wrong to divorce, but Im sure they have made plenty of divorce cakes, or wedding cakes for people who have been married before, both of those are celebrating things they should feel is wrong, but i bet they do it. they are cherry picking who they want to serve. or what events they want to serve
Divorce cakes? Do you mean cakes of people remarrying? That's what I mean. They wouldn't know if the person was getting remarried or not unless they asked. Two women coming in and asking for a wedding cake makes it clear that they're gay. Privately owned businesses should have the right to refuse service to whoever they want. If I owned a business and a bunch of klansmen came in, I most definitely would not serve them. The government shouldn't have the right to tell people who to serve.
Diana Whitley no i mean a cake for someone celebrating a divorce, and wedding cakes for someone getting married for the 3 rd, 4 th or 5th time, if they are able to refuse service to someone who is getting married who is LGBT then they will be able to ask those questions, and wont have to bake cakes for any one they dont want to. and what if i went to a bakery by my self and said i needed a wedding cake, and they refused because they assumed that I am a lesbian? or if they didnt pick up on it and after I picked it up, called them and said thank you for the wedding cake my soon to be wife is going to love it, are they going to come take it away? its against their beliefs still.
That's the thing though, they didn't assume they were a lesbian couple, they knew from the moment two women walked in asking for a cake for their wedding. And like I said, how would you know if someone was getting married for the 2nd, 3rd, or 4th times unless they asked? Most don't announce how many times they've been married previously. They just go in and ask for the wedding cake. Though I believe they should have the right to refuse service to people who are getting married for the 2nd, 3rd, or 4th time as well. And divorce cakes? lol who does that? But if they were asked to bake a divorce cake, they should have the right to refuse. They should have the right to refuse service to anyone who they don't want to serve because it's their business.
Then go watch fucking Fox News you morons. Everybody knows they’re so “fair and balanced”. There isn’t any conservative bias there at all is there? At least this show has an actual conservaturd on it. Candace gets her stupid opinion heard every day. What more do you little snowflakes need.
Hopefully Raven learns and matures to realize not everyone is going to believe what she believes. And... you can discuss differences without being disrespectful.
Pls join this discord server if you're interested. discord.gg/7Sa2CNWGQv The main purpose is to create a group of like minded anti-left people where ideas can be shared...
This was 8 years ago, so maybe that's happened but yes, we need a lot more of that in America in general right now, as the divisiveness, utter tribalism and echo chamber thinking as really reached a fever pitch. Families and certainly countless friendships have fallen apart over what in the past I'd argue would've just been accepted as mere differences in opinion. Nuance is a thing, and civil debate can benefit everyone, but it seems that's all gone out the window now.
I understand why she's upset when someone is telling people like her that they will refuse services because they dont like her lifestyle. She has a right to be upset about an opinion which could directly affect her because opinions lead to actions.
Anti-gay straight people can’t handle that someone else has a different sexual orientation The difference is Raven is disagreeing with her, and anti-gay straight people take away gay people’s rights. *That’s* the real apples and oranges.
OK, *former* child actors then. Though Candace is still reprising her popular role in the reboot of a popular series. Some people prefer the 'D.J. Tanner' Candace over the political Candace, like me.
well, because they've grown up, SOME of them have gotten educated and are allowed to have opinions. child tv actors are human beings with brains (again, some) as well.
***** well that is your opinion and I respect that. I feel like Raven had her opinion totally fine and Candace had her own opinion completely different and that is fine. My opinion is that this bakery has the right to not bake this cake.
Theresa Walden of course you respect his opinion because they didn't say anything rude or discriminatory towards you. It's not the same, I'm not respecting your opinion because your personally attacking my character (I don't necessarily mean you)
Theresa Walden For real. But if you don't agree with someone, apparently you're discriminating and just plain wrong. Why can't people agree to disagree?
In the moment, yes, you can refuse service. You can also be sued later for discrimination. There are federal laws for protected class citizens based on race, gender, age, religion, and disability. Many states have laws put in place for LGBTQ, as well, but for now they are not a protected class on the federal level. So yes, you can refuse service...and it may cost you later.
Candace has such grace and class. I hope Raven can find peace, love, joy and happiness. Raven's attitude is a long way away from there. Prayers and love.
@carolynkim669 she is accepts all her Brothers and Sisters in Christ. If her opinion is that a man and a woman belong together in her mind and heart doesn't mean she has control over what anyone else does in this lifetime. Only God has all of the control. There's only haters in one's life if you allow them to be. Otherwise don't surround yourself or listen to them.
I don't agree with Candace on this issue but Raven's response was so stupid and immature. "I refuse to associate with you right now." Really?? She is so annoying; how the heck did she wind up on The View?
+Alicia Engel I agree too on about Raven. She was VERY immature. :( She puts up her wall because of how the world wants to act. And instead of what you're suppose to do on a show like this, is to respect other people's views and listen out, Raven did not do that, she doesn't do that, she needs to leave the show. And not instantly put up your wall because a Christian woman speaks.
Nikki Breanne That's true. She's very narrow minded. Regardless of how you feel about Candace, at least she listens to what other people have to say and is respectful.
The fact remains that we still have freedom of religion in this country, and if these bakers did not want to endorse this couple's gay marriage by baking a commemorative cake for their ceremony, they have the right to refuse. It is my understanding that the gay couple has purchased goods in this bakery before, and there were NO issues. The bakery is not turning away gays! They simply refused to condone gay marriage based on their religious beliefs. Don't see why this case is even being heard!
Deborah Hartenstine they are a bakery, they didn't have to wish the couple good luck or congratulate them on the wedding. They didn't have to say they support their marriage, all they had to do was bake a cake
***** Certainly not the same thing. Wasn't the couple customers of this bakery? Did the bakery refuse to serve them in the past? Not that I'm aware of. My fear is that more and more religious freedoms are being taken away in the name of political correctness. The kosher Jew refuses to eat in restaurants that do not serve kosher foods, because of their religious beliefs. Should they be fined? If you had a bakery in the south and refused to make goods for a KKK gathering, should you be fined? What if you knew a neighbor was a follower of radical Islam and they brought their car to your shop for repair? Can you refuse without being fined? Where does BIG government end?
Deborah Hartenstine That is the right of a customer to refuse eating at a place that does not meet their need. THAT is how it works in the service industry. What exactly IS your religious freedom? Do you even have a full understanding of what that does or doesn't entail? If you don't want to invite anyone into your home who does not share your beliefs, that is your choice and you can even by law handle accordingly. Same goes for if a church refuses patronage of members of the community it doesn't wish to come into contact with. They exercise this freedom almost on a daily basis. If you want to practice that religion, without infringing on others right to do so as well, and without fear of being persecuted, THAT is your religious freedom. Belittling others, or trying to load your beliefs on others because they don't share you religious views however, is not part of that deal. That isn't religious freedom, that is you being an asshole. And this is not just you hating your muslim neighbor, this has gone way beyond your little domestic problems. When you offer a business to the public, the anti discriminatory laws trump your religious freedom and rightly so. Because your belief does not make you above the law. It is not a fault of the system that Christians believe that their view and their rights go above all other peoples. That they can become a political entity in this country, that isn't being taxed, and influences laws made in order to load their views unto people that might not even be Christians. Hell, that they even go into Africa's various countries and push bills that call for the extermination of an entire group of people. This isn't about your everyday domestic life as a Christian. Your religion is a political entity that is trying to influence laws of state that govern over people that may or may not want anything to do with you. And you speak of more and more religious freedoms being infringed upon? What a hypocrite and obvious ignorant you are. You want to be able to be a bigot and to discriminate against gays and possibly even blacks, jews, muslims, and whoever else doesn't fit your bill and what not without being branded for it and without being called out on your antiquated bullshit. Political correctness? How about human decency. If you cannot abide by laws that have been set up, and believe your religious freedom entails breaking that law because you have the religious freedom to do it, then you have absolutely NO business having a business in the service sector. Stop playing victim when you Christians have been aggressors since Goddess knows how far back in history.
Deborah Hartenstine You're correct, but the fine they received wasn't because of them not refusing to serve the lesbian couple by making the wedding cake. It was what happened after they had refused the couple to make the cake for them. These bakery shop owners called up the media and told them about the lesbian couple that came to their shop and gave them personal info and their address in where they were located at. The lesbian couple found out about this and they started getting death threats from people in the community. They found out it was the bakery shop owners that did it and filed a discrimination complaint to the state of Oregon on the bakery shop owners. I mean these owners can refuse to make the wedding cake due to their religious beliefs, but they should not have alerted the media about them and gave info about the couple. That was uncalled for.
If that is indeed the way they behaved, I find it very disappointing. I support their right to refuse to participate in a gay wedding by supplying the cake. But that's as far as my support runs! As Christians, their job is to LOVE as Christ loves. Leave the judging up to God!
The bakers had the right to refuse. Is it socially acceptable? No. Is it right? Probably not... But do they have the right to refuse? Absolutely. It's their business and they do have the right to say no to whoever they want.
But that didn't give those hypocritical bakers, Melissa & Aaron Kline, the right to put the lesbian couple's PERSONAL and PRIVATE information on social media, which only resulted in the two women being the subject of death threats, obscene phone calls & having rocks thrown at their house. That move right there was one of the biggest reasons the court ruled in favor of the lesbian couple and the Klines were forced to shut down their bigoted bakery.
Candace is right here, they have every right to refuse service if they are. Private organization. They can do it for whatever reason they want even if they don't like the clothes you wear and if you don't like it go to a different place. Why would you want someone to make your cake that doesn't even agree with your lifestyle?
She right but what you didn't know was the business had posted the couples address and the couple was harassed. They were fostering children at the time so they too were getting harassed. The couple actually didn't want to go to court but they had to sue for the damages that were done. The were actually trying to adopt the children and in order for that to happen they had to protect the children from harassment. This business made that difficult. So.... they had a right to sue.
Girl sexuality isn’t a lifestyle what 😭 it’s literally basic human rights.. that’s why it goes along with Black people. The discrimination we deal bc of who we love is truly heart breaking.
Well then they should have a sign on the door and tell the public that they don’t serve gay people so that they won’t accidentally give them any business
mykel1990 when the christian lady was talking about "respecting everyone's views" at the end of the video and raven was nodding, i got some serious chills. that was a nod of death right there. raven is coming after you lady, run
mykel1990 She is nasty, I have stopped watching because of her mostly, Joy was an angry one too. Man they must have really high blood pressure, so much anger and hate, it is not pretty, but Christians will be persecuted from the beginning of time until the end, you can quote the bible on that, so it is just the way it is and always will be.
They both have points. Yes, it sucks that someone is judged for being a different race or sexual orientation. But also, you will NEVER get everyone to like you. Candace is kind of right when she says we need to just accept we have different views. People are killing their own lives trying to get everyone to treat them perfectly. I am a white dude, used to be fat. I am treated poorly in life too. I cried in school sometimes from being made fun of. I always felt like the fattest kid in the world. I've never had many people like me or help me in anything. It's always just been me against the world, even though my entire life has been an attempt to help people. It's impossible to make the world change. But you can change how you deal with it and how you see it.
I'm sorry you went through such a tough time! Despite those who have treated you wrongly, please know you can have Someone who has compassion on all He had made (Psalm 145:9). Someone who, be you following Him, is for you and not against you (Romans 8:31). The world can be so cruel, but when the world and satan attack us, in Christ you can confidently say "greater is He who is in me than he who is in the world (1 John 4:4). Who is it that overcomes the world? Those who believe Jesus is the Son of God. Through Him, we have peace this world cannot give (Philippians 4:4-19). Although the Christian life isn't absent of difficulty, it is a life where we have a constant strength and comfort in the midst of our difficulty when we abide in Christ. And in the end, God, who knitted us in our mother's womb, will receive us unto Himself, and the former griefs of this life will pass away forever. However, in order for this hope, you must accept Christ. If you ever think about becoming a Christian, I recommend reading: Romans 8, John 3, 1 Corinthians 15, Romans 5-6, Matthew 19:7, John 14-15, and the Gospels in general if you can ever make time. You're in my prayers 🙏💕
@@delsingray5923 It's not discriminatory, she's allowed to not include content she doesn't see fit. Her Christian values are valid and a first amendment right, and she's under no obligation to compromise. There are plenty of other networks that produce the content you're looking for. I don't mean to sound mean or harsh by the way, this is just my viewpoint
@@jarettlee8278 its easy to do regardless, and it only affects you if you choose to let it. Respect and tolerance is something everyone deserves, but nobody should be forced to accept you and your life choices. Nobody has to go against what they believe just for little old you, its called freedom.
I believe when you’re in a business... you can should be able to choose! It’s your business. GO ELSEWHERE! *I am friends with all people. However, don't you want to go where you're wanted? Just go elsewhere. I am not going to cause drama if someone doesn't want me there.
Katrina B if you had any common sense you would know being gay isn’t a religion, it doesn’t have a book or a god guiding it, it’s not the same thing. Race is something you can’t help because god made you. God didn’t make you gay.
I love that she has a gay son so she can stop being a bigot and stop letting her Cristian views affect respect for other human beings. Just make the cake and take the money.
Freedom of association was practiced to not serve black people, and if your basis wasn't to bake a cake for an interracial wedding because a ceremony was for a black or interracial couple, that would be unconstitutional.
2:36 Candace talking about “respecting different views” as the views she’s defending directly disrespect other people. If a view is disrespectful, it deserves disrespect.
They didnt respect lesbians.. They made cakes for them before... 🤷🏻♀️ In the marriage they wont believe.... So they could have asked someone else for to make cake
Tashana Walker no it’s not because Africa is a continent .. so that statement doesn’t make sense unless she is saying she is from every country in Africa.. that would make sense..
This is a little off topic but I really miss THIS dynamic of view where even if you didn't agree with someone on the panel, the interaction always stuck with you.
that's fine to have opposing views, discrimination is clearly subjective here because who's to say I can't deny service to someone because they're Black?
Khadiyah Thomas the context of the conversation is about the actually ceremony. The guy won the case ultimately because it was about not wanting to partake in the ceremony
@@christopherliverman8333 Two things: I'm applying the same logic so what's the difference? and 2. I don't understand why he wouldn't just decline instead of suing, where's the other information?
Khadiyah Thomas because it’s not a discrimination case. It was about not wanting be part of the ceremony. He would have made them another cakes for something else but it was about the ceremony not who they were. He didn’t initiate the lawsuit.
Candace is very "You do you, I'll do me". She's gonna preach for what she believes, but on her own. She's not that type of person that tries to make everyone believe what she believes, and as a gay person I respect her for that. But i do agree with Raven in the sense that that they (the lesbian couple) aren't doing any harm to you or your business (person with conflicting views on same sex marriage) on the contrary, they're willing to pay you to make your cake. They're just doing them. If YOU don't like gay marriage, don't get gay married
I’m a Christian as well . I personally would have baked the cake . It’s a cake. It doesn’t mean they had to go to the wedding …. They just needed a cake for their big day . We are taught to be the light in the Earth and show love to everyone . Yes we have our beliefs it’s just for us though. And anyone else who wants to follow . But I agreed with Candace
Better yet if they don’t like gay marriage maybe they should find another job because gay is here to stay so if they not willing to make cakes then I guess go out of business! I mean I respect them because hey Candace is right it’s in the constitution but I guess my gay friends will have to buy a cake somewhere else. Sorry but if you don’t keep up then the jobs not for you. Even clothing stores are folding because they are not keeping up with trends or demands from the public
@@Angie_bae The bakery in this case (and in the case that went to SCOTUS after this clip) never refused to sell cakes to gay people or bake them cakes generally. They wouldn't bake a _specific cake_ in celebration of the wedding of a same-sex couple. The baker in the case that ended up at SCOTUS was willing to sell the couple a cake for them to use at the wedding, and he was willing to bake them custom birthday cakes, he just didn't think it was right to make a custom cake specifically for a same-sex wedding. He also wouldn't make custom Halloween cakes, for example, because he believed those also conflicted with his religious beliefs. Bakers have been permitted to refuse to bake custom cakes with anti-gay messages and pro-Christianity messages. Muslim bakers have refused same-sex wedding cakes as well. I would expect no one would want a black person to have to bake a cake celebrating white power. We all should be a bit kinder to one another, and that includes appreciating when someone has done everything they can to accommodate us without violating their religious beliefs--when they have been loving and respectful to us as people, even if they disagree with our behavior. Bigots won't make it ambiguous that they hate us as people. Let's focus on that.
Jeremy calhoun And if people had any strong ingenuity in them when people tell them that, I woulda said "Your loss, homes!", or not even said shit at all. But now you see how weak hearted we have become and want to have feelings to be easily offended by the re-action of people.
A private business owner has a right to serve whoever they want, since the business owner pays his or her business taxes, cost of paying for their business products and rent! How dare outsiders dictate what a business owner should do.
I don't watch this show...but at this time was she out yet... She seemed upset obviously because she's lbgt. I saw her shoot a look at Whoopi like Whoopi may have known...but not the others..
@@thruthemotions this particular bakery had baked other things like cakes/cookies etc for this same sex couple in the past. However, it was against their religious beliefs to bake a cake for a ceremony that goes against their faith. I love liberals, they demand respect and acceptance for themselves & their lifestyle & beliefs yet are extremely intolerant of doing the same for others. This bakery gladly baked other goods for this gay couple, so obviously they werent homophobes!!
I watched a news report on the actual case and the baker was not rude to them. He didn't want to bake a cake but offered brownies and cupcakes because cakes are art for him. I don't think it's discrimination because he only said he himself didn't want to make his cakes that are special to him.
As a religious lesbian, I would accept it 100%. I grew up in a community where people accept me, and people accept me but don't accept the lifestyle. A company has a right to refuse service for whatever they want, and if that's their reason then so be it. There are some hardcore Christians out their, and they shouldn't have to change their beliefs because everyone else is. I'm not going to waste my time trying to get people to see my point of view, because they think I'm sinning.
+Rebecca Thompson "hardcore Christians out their, and they shouldn't have to change their beliefs".....but, isn't that kind of silly when Christians have passed laws forcing all businesses to serve them equally?
+Tifany Stills Not all Christians have forced anything. You'll meet plenty of Christians who don't approve, but will let you go about your day. This company sold product to other gay people, they just didn't want to make a wedding cake. That's okay, they don't believe people in same sex relationships should get married, we can't change their opinion. Companies have the right to refuse service to anyone, and that's what this company did. They still serve gay people, they just don't want to make a wedding cake for a gay couple. Being fined 135,000$ is a little extreme. Urban Outfitters corporate company doesn't hire gay people, and if they find out you are homosexual they let you go because "you don't fit" company standards. I'm a lesbian, but and I believe that everyone should be accepting of it. It's 2016, but realistically not everyone is going to accept us for who we are. We can't change that, and they shouldn't be fined for it.
***** Are you slow? Are you not getting it? The law forces all businesses to serve Christians equally. As long as the law requires gays to serve Christians, then Christians should be required to serve gays. The court has already ruled on this issue, cake does not equal religious belief.
A company does NOT have the right to refuse service based on protected status. Things like skin color or gender. For me sexual orientation is the same thing.
Why do the World Christians argue with desires, emotions, preferences, understanding e.t.c? The point of reference is the Bible. What does the Bible say- marriage was designed by God as an institution between a man and a woman, period! Everything else other than God's definition is human cleverness and you know what, humans are not so clever- they cut trees then calls it global warming and start running all over in a crisis moment. How then do you trust that humans even know what is best for them or what they are feeling at a given point in time. God decreed it and it is so, period! Better like it and pray for grace and forgiveness because God always wins and He is not man that He should lie. If he says Homosexuality is sin- then it is sin. If He says in Rev 21 that those who are sexually immoral will burn in hot sulphur, you better believe Him. How does a created being fault The Creator? How does a computer tell it's engineer, I know more than you. Human beings are just but dust, when left to their ways they self destruct- if you do not believe me, look at what comes out of our labs today- intelligent scientists , learned, with PHDs building chemical weapons, for what? May God have mercy on all our souls and save us from our "clever ways"
I actually think Candace was very respectful towards Raven here. She did not get mad or make a stank face like Raven did. Even though Candace has opposing views compared to Raven, she was very respectful. I am for gay rights but definitely I will never go against someone if they didn’t believe the same things I do. It’s all about respecting people’s beliefs.
Candace looks so good here - love the hair - I just finished watching Fuller House and it was such good, cheesy fun to revisit my favorite show from childhood. It’s great how the whole cast is like family IRL and support each other through thick and thin while respecting their political, religious, lifestyle differences
The bakers who posted the address of the lesbian couple? The bakers who mocked said lesbian couple and incited violence towards them (which risked their foster kids being removed from their care)? That's what they were being sued for. Definitely not in the clear
Being “respectful” doesn’t negate her being blatantly racist and homophobic. And on The View with 2 Black Femmes in their midst… embarrassing to the actual core.
Because what you call a belief on the front of the gays, is something they would call a right. They feel they have the right to stand up for their rights. You are also calling it a lifestyle instead of an orientation, making it appear as if they have a choice. So yes, if someone calls you a discriminator, I am more inclined to belief that you were discriminating at that point. I wouldn't call you hater, just ignorant to how your actions are hateful, but it's probably not your intent.
+Maggie You can disagree with same sex marriage all you want in my opinion, but if you want to enforce that belief then you are indeed discriminating against people. Also there is a difference between a religious marriage and a state marriage. State shouldn't be able to influence what a religious marriage entails but religion shouldn't be able to influence what a state marriage entails. You can have your opinion on religious marriage all you want without being close-minded, but if you are going outside your religion to enforce beliefs on people that might not be of your religion and make them play by your religions rules, then you are being a close-minded discriminating person. You have your right to your religious beliefs, let other people also have their right to their religious beliefs and even their right to not be religious. So in your example, it's not the same thing unless the person that agrees with same sex marriage wants to have a same sex marriage in a church that is absolutely against that. In that case I would also call them a bad person.
JD I understand where you are coming from. There are some that act like children if you don't believe their way. One thing people will have to do is understand just because many don't agree with the lifestyle does not make them a hater or even a discriminator. Yes, some actions do seem forced as well. IMO, if you decide to go forward with your actions, be mature enough to understand that everyone's opinions will not be the same. They can still love you unconditionally and one's agenda should never be used as a bargaining chip such as "if you don't like what I do, that means you don't love me". One's ways might not seem the right way in the eyes of another but that unconditional love is there and I think that should be the focus on BOTH sides!!!! This lawsuit is almost like throwing a tantrum and it's immature in my opinion. Madonna's brother, who is gay, broke down his response in a video as he was upset that this couple would even consider suing. I wish I could find the video. He gave a wonderful, wise commentary. I've noticed that people that lash out with name calling and hateful actions at someone who isn't pro gay. That can be just as horrific just the actions of some (not all) uppity, hypocritical Christians that discriminate. Where's the maturity? God does give us choice and yes, the Bible clearly states that the homosexual lifestyle is NOT his blueprint for people. For those who believe in the Bible, also know God at the same time gives free will. At the end of the day, the choice and decision making is between God and that one individual. Now, if you exercise free will, be man or woman enough to deal with whatever comes at your in a mature manner instead using someone's opposing outlook to yell, lash, harass, bully and curse out folks. If you're proud of your decision at least keep your dignity about yourself. Don't spend time hating on folks that love you but don't love your orientation per se. There are some folks that will flat out hate you inside and out because of your orientation. Forget that you may be a cool person, they'll hate you just because you're gay, flat out. That's not right! Just it's not right if a Pro gay individual hates a person just be a they don't agree with them on the matter. That's just as wrong. For whichever side one may on regarding this matter, know at the end of the day, spewing venom and hatred will anyone over but that love is a powerful thing and should be used more.
1) Homophobia is not an opinion 2) Normalizing bigotry is dangerous 3) There is nothing wrong with being gay 4) Refusing Gay Individuals or Couples Services is very f-cked up, i am sorry.
@@LucaJacobson8168 But why? There is not a rational reason. Being gay is normal and natural. Homophobia is unnecessary bigotry. He/She does not have to attend the wedding. I‘m sorry, but that‘s how I feel.
you only with her cos she black just like how most blacks voted for obama who was mixed raised. You say things shouldn’t be about race but then make it be about race in America smh
I'd have to go with Candace on this one !!! Why do you have to impose your beliefs on people ??? We all have different beliefs and we must respect that !!!
First, I think it's incredibly rude how they talk over one another. I saw the same behavior from Whoopi when Carly Fiorina, the female GOP candidate, was on as a guest not too long ago, when the issue of abortion was on the table. I side with Candace on this one. This bakery had done business with this couple in the past with no problem. It was not a matter of not serving them BASED SOLELY on this couple's sexual orientation. The race arguments of the past do not fly in this case. As a Christian, I understand that my religion compels me not to take part in a same-sex ceremony. In the Christian faith, marriage is a sacred institution between two individuals of the opposite sex. Serving a homosexual a hamburger is not a violation of religious conscience; being asked to cater a same-sex ceremony, is. There is a difference.
So back in 2023. Something I learned about constitutional law that is interesting. There are two kinds of rights positive rights and negative rights. Negative rights is a list of things the government cannot do to you. Positive rights is something the government must provide for you. So freedom of religion is a negative right. The government cannot tell you what god to believe in, Nor can they force you to believe in a god, nor can they stop you from believing in a God. A negative right also means they are not obligated to provide religion for you. The right to equal treatment is a positive right, that means it is the government’s obligation to make sure that you’re not being treated any differently than any other person that walks through the door of the bakery. What does that mean when a lesbian couple wants a wedding cake from somebody who doesn’t personally believe in gay marriage. So the government can’t force the baker to give up their belief, however The government is duty-bound to guarantee that a couple is not being treated any differently than any other customer who comes through the door. I would submit ruling in favor of the lesbian couple for two reasons. Reason number one, where do you draw the line. There are people who belong to religions that say the races cannot intermarry, and there are religions and say people of different faiths cannot intermarry I.e. a Christian marrying a Jew. Reason number two, religion is a negative right, The government cannot take it away from you, but the government is under no obligation to provide it for you.
Listen, Im gay(lesbian) & I think as a business owner you can deny people for whatever reason. Even if its completely absurd. People are not obligated to use your service, so I don't think you should be obligated to serve them. This is a democracy. Lets not redistribute rights here. We shouldn't be infringing on ones rights to serve another. That judgment especially is completely ridiculous. They hurt your feelings one time & now have to suffer so much. Im sure even business owners don't just have that kinda cash lying around.
The judgement was for a different reason they did not say on the view. The bakery owners put the couple's information online and they started getting threats that's what the judgement was for.
I'm just wondering what the religious significance of wedding cake is? I don't recall ever seeing the wedding cake during the religious ceremony at any wedding?
I support gay marriage and gay rights BUT come on guys, lets not force people to do "extra" things inside their own private business against their beliefs ... the keyword is "CUSTOM-MAKE". Aside from the general secular range of things that businesses are required to offer to ALL customers without discrimination (like an unmarked or non-specific-belief cake), they should not be forced to custom make things beyond beyond the general range to cater to a specific purpose antithetical to their beliefs.. Just like a gay-supporter publisher should not be forced to publish anti-gay propaganda materials ..
That's So Raven vs. Full House.
***** That's so Raven was more funny and realistic though... at least compared to Full House
Raven was really funny, loved that show
Jerry Genes That's So Raven was the biggest show on Disney and broke all types of records.
Max Sandefer both shows r good.
I didn't think this would get as many likes as it did. Well then. :I
Politically and socially, Raven and Candace are polar opposites.
And racially 😂
Raven is NEGATIVE!' Candice is Positive!
Just like this argument!
@@JR-ez3zdlol no
@@JR-ez3zdraven was ahead of the times on this because she was actually advocating for her rights. 7 years later, she married a beautiful woman and Candace remained the same stunted child in her belief.
In femininity and grace also
2 child stars going at it
Purple Hedgehog 😂😂
I don't think Candice wasn't "going at it" with anyone. She didn't roll her eyes or make anything personal. I disagree with Candice but respect her ability to conduct herself as an adult rather than the childish manor Raven was behaving it.
Ryan Davies stfu
@@angeljohnson6665 step down
@@angeljohnson6665 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
The table looks so tiny! They are all squished into this tiny half table. LOL
Jesus is coming back. Please repent.
Right lol I was thinking that they had budget cuts or something 😂
Raven is the emo cousin at thebThanksgiving dinner party.
So Raven is me.
Basically.
+Miss Noona Lmfao! Specially with the way she was looking at the other woman at the end.
HAHAHA GOOD 1
+DeeDeeMr88 I saw that. It was such an intense stare YET.....looks can be deceiving. Maybe something in Raven was trying to process Candace's viewpoint without breathing actual dragon fire on her. And Candace was sooo trying to be neutral and not create any animosity when Raven was giving her very emotional perspective. It is so interesting to watch people bring forth opposing views because not everyone can (or tries) to agree to disagree peacefully, unfortunately.
*"I refuse to associate myself with you right now. Is that okay???"*
um....YES!
etf42 polease do Raven! If you wanna be a lesbian be respectful, Candace was trying her best to be respectful to you. Your whole I’m queer I’m here, get over it, shows us that it’s your way or the highway. Candace is Christian and she could’ve been like most and bashed you morally, but being firm and tactful was her way of being kind without her beliefs bombarding the issue. You knew she was Christian and pulled the bully card out!
Yep, bye Felicia 👋🏻
Raven Symone looks like she's about ready. To kill someone with that look, you know, she doesn't have to agree with Candice at all That's fine. But don't sit there and act like a little child and throw tantrum just because someone doesn't want to agree with you. There's a thing called agree to disagree But I guess Raven Symone thinks that only applies to her..
carol sanders I am not sure WTF that show still on the air! Waste of human oxygen!
@@kelleymariejones6388 I 100% agree I don't know why that show still on the air if you've noticed most of their co-host of either quit or got fired because of different views that don't agree with the panel there one sided people they say they're the view but they're really just one of you and it's theirs and there's only.
Actually Raven, you DO have the right not to associate with Candace and that IS ok. That's called freedom!
Its called walking away... Candace still has the right to be there. She hasn't committed a crime offense that forces her to leave. Raven doesn't have a restraining order. So yeah.. It shows a lack of knowledge and pure ignorance to say something sporadically like that Raven. The bible, which has been proven to be historical correct, states nothing about race or hate. It states that we must not entertain evil. Homosexuality is automatically not love. It's automatically lust. Yes, man and woman can lust too which is unrighteous. Men and women have a purpose according to the word of God. To procreate and to teach the next generation the word of God.
Yea walking away from a controversy 😂😂😂
@@ctrl.sapphic74 You're taking my comment out of context. I responded to a comment in reference to people not associating themselves with someone. The bakery did not want to associate themselves with someone against the natural use of a man and a woman. Raven said she did not want to associate herself or speak with someone disagreeing with her point of view. She can just walk away.
AJ Rugo I’m just joking my dudes.😂
Exactly Iron man
Raven once said that she wouldn’t hire someone if they had a “ghetto” name, so I really don’t think she should have a say in this matter. 🤷🏽♀️
#truth
What is considered a "ghetto name"?
@@Romans8-9 she said she wouldn't hire someone with the name watermenlonandra.. If I'm correct on the spelling
@@Romans8-9 common black names are usually called “ghetto”. such as, Keisha/Keyshia, De'Shawn, Davontae, Shonda, Tyquania, etc.
@@Romans8-9 adding princess to your username is a good example
I'm a lesbian and I reckon, if someone doesn't want to bake a cake because it conflicts with their morals/ beliefs, then they shouldn't be forced to or punished for not. Isn't that supposed to be the point now, everyone is entitled to their opinion?
let me guess you live in a city and have many choices. some of us gays live in rural area where we have few choices. and before you say "then move". 1 my job put me here. 2. we should be allowed to live where we want. it is a free country
That’s not how you should run your business. You will always disagree with someone in all walks of life and if you can’t seem to agree to disagree when it comes to this you shouldn’t be running a business.
Sexual orientation is a protected class in the state of Oregon. Therefore you can't discriminate sexual orientation based on religion. That's why the bakery was fined. If the business knew the public state laws this wouldn't have happened.
elou last name Thank you, that’s because you have a brain amend respect for other people beliefs !
THANK YOU! I APPRECIATE YOU BEING STRONG ENOUGH TO BE OPEN AND HONEST ABOUT THE SUBJECT MATTER!!!
It's not ok to discriminate, it's also not ok to force people to do something they don't want to do. If they don't want to make the cake go elsewhere. I wouldn't want to give the company my business or the publicity.
That same argument could have been used back in segregation days. The fact remains if you are going to use your religion to discriminate in a business you better follow the Bible to a tee. That means asking every couple that wants a wedding cake weather they had premarital sex or a child out of wedlock or if it’s their first second third or fifth
@@amandajones3973 I'll say this once and only and not touch on it again because it's not what this post is about. People need to stop comparing the experiences of Black people to that of the LGBTQ+ community. Yes both have been discriminated against but its not the same. It's like comparing apples and oranges.
Listen, in life there are always going to be bigots. You can choose to upset your life by going after them, which ultimately just gives them free publicity and your money and the money of all your followers who are going to them to try and prove a point. Or you can go to a company that values you and give them your business, promote them in the media. I understand posting about the bakery, I understand going to the news about the bakery but suing them so they are forced to do something they truly don't have the heart to do? Pointless. Literally didn't teach them anything other than... well nothing, it taught them nothing.
If you're not willing to serve EVERYONE in the community then don't open a fucking bakery. If I as an athiest opened a bakery and refused to serve anyone I saw wearing a cross people would be freaking out. 🙄
@@katherinejordan8018 they did serve them. On numerous occasions. They just didn't make the wedding cake.
In no way do I agree with them. Personally I feel like they weren't practicing what they preach, but that's not the point.
If someone didn't want to make my wedding cake yes I'd put them on blast but no I would not take it as far as that couple did. I refuse to force someone to do something for me when they don't truly want to. I get posting about it, going to the papers/news, spreading the word in the neighbourhood in general. But suing them? That was too much. Just give your support to another bakery that supports you.
@@maddsluiz1296 It wasn't about forcing them to do anything. It was about the principle. Businesses shouldn't be allowed to use their religion as an excuse to discriminate against people for just being themselves. It was never just about the cake.
raven's face the entire time had me rolling 😂😂😂😂
her face is general, she is very theatrical with her emotes
Only a very rude person would find Ravens actions funny.
@@paulaboisvert105 yet Candace owens is the rudest c list celebrity but alright
Candace Owen's is a politician and wasn't even on the show. Candace Cameron Bure who portrayed DJ on Full House/Fuller House, isn't rude or wasn't being rude. She was very gracious. The hosts of the view are all very rude and ignorant. The view needs to and should be canceled
@@k.t155 Learn the difference between Candace Cameron Bure and Candace Owen's
LOL "they had a problem with the ceremony, not baking a cake for them" Whoopi "then don't go to the ceremony" LMAO
You can just tell either Whoopi is a total idiot our she’s just ignorant because by doing anything for this ceremony they are showing support and they have every right as business owners to say no and any government trying to force them to do it is attacking their freedom of religion and their rights to run a business
@@martinthomas1293 Freedom of religion has its limits. People used to believe it was against the bible for people of two races to get married and refused them service until the civil rights act. You can't just pull out any belief that affects/discriminates others and hide behind your religion.
@@martinthomas1293 their argument is actually against themselves. they cannot claim religious exemption over lifestyle when they offered to make any kind of cake for them but a wedding cake. if it was a biracial couple, maybe you could see the legality more easily. you cannot argue against yourselves then expect to win in court.
@@martinthomas1293 I agree
@@Ray-cv3qe I dont remember any interpretation in the bible that directly says a biracial couple cannot marry. However the bible is pretty clear on same sex marriage
I can't believe this was a topic on the show and not a single person even read the court documents to know what actually happened!! Wow!! They weren't sued for not baking a cake. They were sued for mocking the lesbian couple on Facebook and giving out their home mailing address. They were harassed, bullied, etc. by SO MANY people!! They called the state to complain (to avoid suing) and because of their agreement to keep their foster children safe from harassment, the state threatened to take away their children. They were undergoing so much trauma that they couldn't leave their home, go to work, nearly lost their children, etc. They finally sued for emotional damages and rightfully won!!
KTnarnia thank you!!!
KTnarnia Ooooh, that makes much more sense.
Gabe King I read the actual court documents. You can, too. They're public domain. :\
Kenny De All you did was prove everyones point, you people blow things out of proportion. Why would you assume I'm trying to be macho just because I don't act like a women? If it wasn't for your parents being straight you wouldn't be here crying right now.I understand sperm donors but that's relatively new. So my point is throughout all of history men laid with women until now and gays wanna raise children I don't want my children to think that's normal. Do you see what I'm saying the world is changing so sin can be accepted, and of course it is we live in last days. But do you wanna contribute to the issue?
Kenny De You sound like a women scorned. I've never argued or talked to a gay man before. Don't know why I just did, you have ruined my view on gay men. And P.S don't try and sound so smart it actually actually has and opposite affect. The shorter the sweeter, that way you make points not essays. But why would I argue with a Brick Wall, you just keep saying the same thing over and over. Not considering or respecting my views, and under the delusion you're smarter than me?
"I don't think this is discrimination at all"
a man refusing to give a wedding cake to couple because they are gay isn't discrimination? if a Muslim couple was refused a cake because of a christian baker everyone would freak so why is this different.
Thank you! Exactly
+thisisme luiza it technically is discrimination but why the fuck would you want to give them your money anyway? youre literally paying the homophobes
+Nema Khalil true
+thisisme luiza First of all, in the bible it states we are to respect other people's religions, so by the Christians refusing the muslims service, that would be against their religion. On the hand of the christians refusing the gays service, people forget that not respecting someone's religion is also discrimination. Right there in the beginning, Raven talked about people not being allowed to discriminate against sexual orientation AND religion. The religion part is always forgotten about. In situations like this, people always hold the sexual orientation right MILES higher than religion. Why is it always the people who are refusing to go against their own religious beliefs who are being punished THOUSANDS of dollars. Don't you think its discriminatory to sue someone because they are devout in their religion? It's not like they're the Westboro Baptist 'Church' (I don't think it should be called that) who hold up 'God hates f**gs' signs up. I personally think that in the case of a bakery being asked to bake a birthday cake for someone they know is gay, then they should absolutely bake the cake, a gay person's birthday has NOTHING to do with what you're against. In the case of a gay person asking the bakery to bake a wedding cake, the christians should have the right to practice their religion, they shouldn't be forced by law to break their religion OR to be charged $135,000 like the bakery was, when the gay couple can just go to another bakery. A gay wedding IS directly related to what they're against, and the christians should have a right to not have to participate in something that goes against their religion.
They are a bakery, their job is to bake the cake, deliver it and get paid. Who or what the cake is for is not their business.
I like how Candace didn’t seem to be bothered by Ravens reaction towards her
Because she is a Bible believing Christian who fears only god!
Right I didn't understand how come it racism.
Candace is a strong woman who defends her beliefs
@Amy Bradley lol! That's her husband. You act like she was stripping on a pole.
@Amy Bradley that's her husband lol. It's not some random joe on the street. I'd hope all married couples would act like that and have happy marriages.
The bigger question is why would you want a Homophobe to make your gay wedding cake?
I'm sure they don't want the cake. It's about principals now.
@@sandra-jones as a gay man I respect people's religious beliefs. I am a liberal I think we have it wrong and we are doing what we don't want to be done to us. to be forced to live or do things we don't agree with. Id respects their religious beliefs even if I think they are full of crap and find another bakery. we don't always have to be so confrontational.
Scotty Scott wait, wait, wait you said “gay wedding cake”?!?! What is a gay wedding cake? Smh
Just thought that...
@Larry Larry please re write...cannot understand what was written
Those dirty looks that raven's given are actually providing me with life
+Tomi Agbaje I know right shes like "OMG A DIFFERENT OPINION OMFG BIGOT BIGOT GO TO JAIL LOL"
Tomi Agbaje. Agreed she’s not happy with anyone’s answer but her own
Tomi Agbaje you guys clearly missed the original commenter’s point. She’s on raven’s side!
She's only giving those dirty looks because she doesn't understand what the other woman is talking about. Raven gives looks to make up for her lack of intelligence on those subjects.
Stew Meat cause people are constantly ostracized for being different like that. All Candace was trying to say is that she understands where she is coming from A lot of people are just brought into the understanding of it being in the wrong You should treat others the way you should want to be treated so if Candace is willing to understand Raven why can't she be willing to reach out to her she isn't trying to hurt or bully her. She just wants to reach out to her and show her that kind of friendship and support I just think that it's really sad that she can't see that People treat me different cause I'm more sensitive trusting and naive I don't like feeling isolated from my friends. cause they always have others they converse with a lot more. It's hurtful and you feel alone in it Candace doesn't need to push but I do hope that in time that she will understand that Candace's intentions were good and will come back around. When she starts looking for a friend to reach out to for help I would hope she'd look to Cameron cause Cameron sees so much good in Raven and would never mean to come off wrong if she did.knowing her she'd apologize for stepping on any toes
Obviously, people don't know how to read an article or look at actual court docs.
Here's what happened: The owners of the bakery refused to bake a lesbian couple a cake. The couple sent them a complaint, so the owners of the bakery mocked them on Facebook and posted their names and their home address. They began receiving threats, harassment letters, and were bullied in public. The couple contacted the state (doing everything they could to AVOID going to court or suing them). Unfortunately, they had foster kids and the state had responded that it was part of their fostering agreement to shield the children from harassment and keep them out of the public spotlight. The state threatened to take away their children. The whole ordeal was so stressful that they could barely leave their house or go to work.
The lesbian couple finally decided to sue the bakery owners for emotional damages due to the harassment and nearly having their children taken away.
The happy ending here is: they successfully adopted the foster kids and were awarded over $100k in damages.
The End
best and most honest post on here but these bigots wont read it .
KTnarnia if this is truly what happened, then yes I do understand why they sued.. it’s hard to believe that the owner or owners made fun of them on Facebook.. that’s so ugly .. i agree with their right to refuse but to make fun of them on such a public forum and disclose their address seems unnecessary and for what reason.. !! need to see the documents this was wrong if true..
Great if that article because that business should not have been open to the public. He did come on the trying to back statement up with emotional and spiritual convictions. But he was dead wrong and was discriminating them
@@winniejohnson5559 um no, it's still wrong to refuse service purely based on things people cannot change. that's idiotic thinking. whether you "agree" (ugh i hate that because being gay is not an opinion just as being straight isn't) or not, keep that out of business ordeals
@ktnarnia Oh my goodness 😳! How awful! I'm so glad they were able to successfully adopt & I hope 🙏🙏 time will heal their emotional wounds.
Never in a million years would I ever thought I would see Candace and ravyn fighting 💀
But That's So Raven!! LOL
Am I right!! haha
This show is toxic drama.
Candace is supposed to be a Christian, yet she’s getting paid to sit in the midst of a pack of lesbians who are eating her alive
I’m a lesbian & I wouldn’t embarrass myself dealing with a Christian bakery for my wedding bc there’s way enough bakeries in this country that would be happy to service a gay wedding. I also do believe in religious freedom as long as it isn’t used as an excuse to harm someone, & I don’t consider refusal of service emotional damage, sorry not sorry. I just think that it should be straightforward in writing, sign on the door, so no one even has to come in & feel ashamed. If you’re a Christian bakery, be explicit about it. And if you’re not a Christian bakery, make sure your policies are known.
Also, there is a very clear difference here between denying someone a cake for BEING gay vs having personal involvement in a gay wedding you don’t agree with. A baker has a right to refuse me service for a wedding cake, but not for any type of cake that has nothing to do with my sexuality. THAT is the key difference between discrimination & religious freedom.
As a Christian, YES U GET IT THANK U !!! Luv u girlie. Its so refreshing to see people who can actually separate accepting/supporting certain BEHAVIORS from supporting and loving the HUMAN BEING ☺️❤ And as a straight person, I would not walk into a gay bar and expect to find a date nor would I feel entitled to do so 😂
This is one of the most articulate comments Ive seen on TH-cam. You get a gold star 🌟 . Very well detailed, explaining both sides of the matter. Im proud to see there's wisdom out here.
@peanutbutterjellytime & @Ifeoma Abiandu thank you both! 💜
@Leah Rachelle thank you for that so much! Im a Christian and I wouldn't go to like a science museum and yell at the workers for taking the secular view. You have to respect other people's opinions. Thank you 😊
Totally agree
Candace: "Respect that we have opposing views"
Raven: *scowls*
lmao if they dont respect gay ppl why shd they respect them back
@@naingnandaraye2395 Respect and agreement are two different things.
@@autumnrose538 tf is tht supposed to mean gay ppl jus want ppl to respect their sexuality n treat them equally THTS respect
@@naingnandaraye2395 But respect isn't agreement. Like I respect your right to have an opinion. But I don't agree with it
@@autumnrose538 being gay isn't a fucking opinion. it's the same as you being straight isn't an opinion. get it through your thick skull
I love Candace. I’m not conservative, but she is. She states her opinion and beliefs with respect. She can actually agree to disagree. Right or wrong, agree or disagree, we need to respect.
Why are you not conservative?
@@efge-gc8uuThey probably have critical thinking skills
The thing they want to get rid of now in teaching, they wanna think we were blackwashing history but it's not nothing but the truth if not worse if it bothers you change it not teach your kids to take two steps back
As a gay person, I still don't quite understand why would someone going so far to have homophobic person baking cake for you. It's not like they are public service and you already pay tax for them.
I'd totally waste no time to change bakery in heartbeat.
Like, they totally are not gonna puke or spit in the cake.
tuck295q While I disagree with the "homophobic" part, I agree with everything else you said.
tuck295q ok now what if its a small town, and it is the ONLY bakery in the town, and the only other bakery is a 2 hr drive away? what if that bakery has the lowest prices, and you are on a budget and all the other bakery are $100 more? or what if you had a piece of that wedding cake at another wedding and it was the best you had ever had? you would have a right to have a cake made there. the other problem is the couple did not go there knowing it was a homophobic bakery, they had been having cakes made there for years, they never turned them down before.
I agree I would not want a cake made by them because they would probably do something nasty to the cake, if they were made to do it. but we know it is a homophobic bakery now so we can choose not to go there.
tuck295q I understand where you are coming from, but they should not be able to discriminate against any one, if this is aloud to continue, then as they say will be a slippery slope, sure ok they dont have to make a LGBT cake now, next it will be they dont want to make a wedding cake for people of different races, or different religions, because its against their beliefs, and who knows where it will go from there, if this keeps going businesses wont have to wait on someone just because of their race, or religion, or non religion, or because they wear glasses, or have a prosthetic arm or leg, or because someone is disabled, or because they are old............ the list will go on and on. it all needs to be stopped now, before it goes that far.
Meri justus
It would be far more effective to come out to the public and cause backlash there of such practice rather than government involvement.
The reason is it shows the beauty of how society should be and not relying on government so much and they will lose customers. Hopefully then, they will change their behavior.
Compare to this:
Think about it, the couple wanted to give money to homophobic people so much they waste their time files a complaint to the court instead of focusing on their wedding. They want that cake that might not be save so much they want to give money to and then make them pay to the government and then take the cake rather than going to the one that might make better cake because they are sincere with the couple.
Tell me, if any of this make any senses?
tuck295q True, i see what you are saying. I just get soooo frustrated over these rude people at times. something does need to be done to stop them.
The way Raven looked at Candace at the end, then looked at her up and down was hilarious regardless of what their debating about...
She thinks that Candace should be all about the LGBTQ because she (raven) is
@@fabianchavez3444 Perhaps. Either way, Raven was not here for it! I'm glad Candace stood to her views as well. People can believe what they want to on both sides, no one has to affirm the other, they just need to respect each other.
@@fabianchavez3444it’s hilarious that Candace son is gay!!! It’s a little hilarious
I laughed real big at that face
@@javiruiz8365 What?!
2:17 Raven face. My face about this
Eric Lee LeBeau Cool, so i can demand you make me a cake for my KKK rally? Swastika
shaped cake, you have to make it, or i'll sue you and bankrupt your
business.
***** I consider gays hateful and bigoted against Christians. May I refuse service being a jew now?
***** The fact you don't know the answer to that question just proves you should not take part of this discussion.
Eric Lee LeBeau Grow a pair.
***** Everyone will have the ultimate answer eventually; don't want to see your face when THAT happens-
The fine wasn't about not refusing to bake a cake. The fine was for the bakery posting the name, address and phone number of the couple in question. This led to the couple getting death threats against them and their children. They were forced to move because of this and change their phone number. Whether the owners of the bakery were right in denying them service is a completely different story. Besides they got all that money back and more through a Gofundme campaign.
Omg why did they post the couple's information??? Uh uh its too many holes in this story i need a break down lol
The couple gave out the bakers info and tried ruining their reputation FIRST. What goes around comes around!
I don't about any of that. If people were making death threats, those actual people should be held accountable. Google your name. I'll bet you'll find practically every address you've ever lived at, including your current address, come up.
@@newlycreated1864 Actually no. Believe it or not I'm almost a ghost on the internet. I have no social media under my name. All phone numbers I've ever had are unlisted. And I don't advertise my address. Google my name and you'll find a Linked In account and a couple of really old posts from my University days. Those you have to really search for.
And yes I've done this and yes nothing has come up. And that's the way I'd like to keep it.
@lastdays8500 that's how capitalism work.
A business can refuse customers whenever they want period
So with that same logic..a same sex couple can be refused service in any business? Restaurants.. retail... etc? No.. because it's illegal.
And they can also be sued for discrimination later.
But why? It does not make any sense. Why is it acceptable to discriminate against innocent, paying customers who did nothing wrong.
Homophobia is disgusting.
So is name calling, when you cant have your own way, Mr David.
@@davidbak6984 Privately owned business can deny service to whomever they want or at least should. Freedom of choice should provide that. However, interracial isn't the same as homosexuality.
Candace stays calm and presents her views rationally without insulting anyone or being rude. The others constantly interrupt and clown while she is talking.
My gosh Raven is coming across real sane in this. You may agree or disagree with Candace, but at least she’s civil and not confrontational from the getgo
Really?!?! Because she got mad when Candace almost interrupted her but she interrupted Candace multiple times when she was speaking. Seems like a double standard
Candace is supposed to be a Christian, yet she’s getting paid to sit in the midst of a pack of lesbians who are eating her alive
@@kn1993gua That's just how they operate on The View. Also, Candace interrupted first - why should Raven not treat her the same way she had been treated?
fvck civility. what is the truth?
If you can’t have a conversation without making faces and acting immature then you don’t need to have conversations.
Raven’s facial expressions is what made her a star 🤣🤣🤣🤣 she was sending daggers everywhere.
I agree with Candace. As a man interested in other men...if someone doesn't agree with it or whatever, that's their right. I'm not going to try to drag a person's business through the mud because they have an opposing viewpoint. I mean, they're willfully rejecting money, which I'm going to go give to someone else. Just respect their FREEDOM OF RELIGION, the same way you expect others to respect your freedom to love who you want. It's not like they were advocating hate or violence against the couple. Some people go too far...it was probably just so they could sue anyway. Everyone using "justice" as an excuse to receive free money. Nonsense...
hi, actually if you read the case (it's public and online, too). The gay couple were suing because the bakery shared their personal information about where they live and social media. They had just adopted too, so when all the hate came to them from extremist religious people, they were about to lose their adopted kid. So, they sued the bakery for arbitrarily sharing their personal information and putting their lives at risk. Please research information first and don't just regurgitate what someone else says. Also, in my opinion, being a bakery that doesn't wanna bake something for a homosexual couple, is the same as me refusing someone service to a black person, or even as stupid as thinking someone is "ugly" or "not american enough" or "fat" ...... it leads to more silly, stupid discrimination.
@@carolinas5132 That side of the political spectrum doesn’t like to educate themselves too much, and you know there’s always a gay man willing to suck up to them in order to gain approval (as if that ever worked).
@@carolinas5132 If you are talking about Masterpiece v Colorado CRC, "The gay couple were suing because the bakery shared their personal information about where they live and social media". This is patently false.
@@carolinas5132 I'm not "regurgitating" anything. I'm commenting on the video as it was presented. Regardless of whether the information in the video is accurate or not, I have given my opinion on the video as it is. If the video said the couple was attacked by bears, I would've then commented about the bears, regardless of whether it was true or not, because it would be my opinion on the video. It is nothing more, nothing less. And while I agree it's silly to turn away the couple, I think it's sillier to go to court over it, ruin a business, drag a family through the mud, when there are dozens of other bakeries that would gladly have your business. Make a comment about it on Facebook or something, and recommend your friends and family stay away from their bakery. When they start losing a lot of business, maybe they'll rethink their operations. I never said I thought discrimination was right, but I respect a person's freedom to religion and opinion, even if it differs from my own. Everyone screams "Tolerance! Acceptance! Love!" yet are completely unwilling to tolerate, accept and love people with conservative viewpoints. Talk about hypocritical.
@@lartisteautravail I'm not sucking up to anyone, I'm not seeking approval, and I have nothing to prove to you or anyone else as far as how educated and intelligent I am. You sure do have a rather hateful, judgmental spirit toward someone you've never met, though. I'll refer you to my reply to Carolina S, most specifically the part about people on "that side of the political spectrum" who always seem to prove themselves hypocrites. They call for tolerance and acceptance for everyone, then attempt to silence and squash any opinion or viewpoint that differs from their own. Conservatives are allowed to have their opinions, too, and they have the same rights as you, whether you like it or not.
LOLOLOL @ Raven's face the whole time, especially at the ending. She wanted to slap her so bad.
Now to the topic at hand, Cameron and her kind are ridiculous with this argument. A business does not have a right to refuse a customer based on their sexual orientation which is what that business is doing.
Do not bake wedding cakes if you don't want to serve ALL couples getting married. You cannot be choosing and picking who to bake for when you serve the public.
I am against eating meat, does it make sense to become a waiter and refuse serving people who select meat from the menu? DO your job or leave the business.
Either they stop baking wedding cakes, merge their business to a church so they can FREELY discriminate, or close their entire business
***** the last time I checked racism is not protected by the law. The Jewish baker will be sued based on religious or racial bigotry unless he can prove he withheld service because they were racist and not because they were arab
johnosahon The argument they're making is it has nothing to do with their orientation. Anyone who's informed knows this bakery has dealt with this couple in the past with no issues. It was the fact they wanted a wedding cake that became an issue. it wasn't that they were gay, or that they were together; it was that by selling and baking them a wedding cake they were supporting an action they do not believe in.
I believe within that specific context they have that right to do so, and the government is wrong to fine them. It would be no different if a black baker was asked by a klansmen to bake a white supremacy cake; the baker would have every right to refuse. It's not a matter or race or sexual orientation, but a matter of supporting an action you do not agree with.
Devin Anderson
1. Your first paragraph makes NO sense. They are NOT selling them the cake because they are GAY. How do you separate the orientation from the wedding? They are marrying each other because in part they are GAY, so what are you talking about? With that excuse ANYONE can deny anyone anything. They can deny baking cakes for straight atheists and people from other religions after all, Christians do not believe in other faiths. Where do you draw the line?
2. Now to the second paragraph, first of all racism is NOT protected under the law, so the baker can refuse to bake a white supremacy cake if he chooses to. Second, comparing sexual orientation to racism is insulting. No one was born a racist, it is a learned behavior ironically just like religion. Thirdly, comparing a black baker who is discriminated by white racists to bigoted bakers discriminating AGAINST gays is just laughable.
At the end of the day, as a gay man I don't want to give 1 cent to a bigoted business, and I rather know if the business owners are bigoted, so I welcome their childish behavior, like a cake is really important in the large scheme of things. The least they can do if they really want to discriminate is put a very large sign "WE DON'T BAKE WEDDING CAKES FOR GAY PEOPLE HERE", so i turn and leave the store and don't waste my precious time. Lets see how long the business last that way.
johnosahon It isn't a wedding, so they didn't make them a wedding cake. Just because you change the definition doesn't mean you have to force other's to follow it.
They did bake them cakes and serve them before, but would not make a wedding cake since same sex is not a definition marriage. They would be supporting an unholy union. Why does every one have to agree with you? Go be a fascist somewhere else.
Sawan Arora You are making no sense. The law of the land now includes marriage between same-sex couples, and sexual orientation is now/or in the process of being protected all over America, so yes the law is forcing you to follow ....the law, just as you would do with race, religion or gender. So if you don't want to serve the gay public then don't open a business that serves the WHOLE public, or simply ban marriage related products. Sorry but get used to it, just as racists had to get used to serving blacks in public businesses. #suckItUp
Raven was ready to blast DJ.
tnargtnarud i was waiting and hoping for it..
Phillip Smith You're absolutely right, Phillip. But if history has shown us anything, the reduction of anybody's civil rights to free speech is now a big thing for the LGBT nation. So I'm not surprised at the backlash re-action from the LGBT nation. It's like they want our tongues cut off because the opinions are not in their favor. And you're right, Candace handled the debate with eloquence and class and didn't resort to childish insults and name calling.
tnargtnarud Steven Crowder does a video about asking muslim bakeries to make a gay cake. They opposed. No outrage or fines there.
Phillip Smith I agree, yes.
You all gave me so much entertainment from my comment.
Bless you all.
People have rights period! Don’t get it confused with your agenda and try to force people to believe your side. Raven you can believe what you believe and Candice can believe what she believes. These people had a right to not participate in something they did not believe in. Stop tearing down people who have rights to refuse service.
wha- no there is a difference between having opinions n jus straight hating n not respecting the lgbtq community its the lgbtq rights to have a wedding cake n the thing abt 'choosing who to associate urself w' tht makes no sense its jus hateful if u choose to stay away from ppl jus bc of their sexual orientation or race
Naing Nandar Aye you’re calling it hatful just to convince me that I am wrong to believe a certain way. Regardless of how you feel about it. If someone doesn’t want to make your cake because they have their belief then you have every right to find a cake maker who will make your cake and participate in your lifestyle. Respect that people have find it is morally right to them. Don’t allow your feelings to get in the way of people’s freedom.
But money is money. Treating gay customers like that is like treating a black customer the same way. Its asinine.
Pancake Lover treating a Gay person how? To refused to bake a cake for a marriage that according to their belief is immoral?
If you are told follow what you believe then do it. These people had every right to follow those convictions. It’s not just American Christian who believe this way. Majority of the world and different religions also believe this way about homosexuality as not following moral living.
@@tiffanyweber3028 That's their problem not homosexuals. Its dumb. I'm not saying they should he sued or anything. Im saying its arrogant and wrong. Im aware that not only American christians feel that way, doesn't change what I think on the matter. That poor couple. Hopefully they found someone else to bake them a beautiful wedding cake. Cause it shouldn't have mattered anyway.
“But were they invited to the wedding” question of the century!
@Alice Smith Well they out of business so I guess it doesn’t matter no more
@@DarrenGreeneShow they are not out of buisness and the lawsuit gave them extra buisness....sure he is saying thank you gay couple🤭
@Don K Not if it's against your principals
@Don K No they have a right to refuse service being a private business. Liberals started this crazy stuff now it is the rule for all businesses. I bake cakes and every one that knows me know not to ask me to make a cake that goes against my morals and principals. Personally how could you eat something from someone who made it with a grudge?
@Don K No i wouldn't tamper with a cake i made. Nor would I be forced or guilted into doing something that goes against my beliefs. This is still a free Country.
I wanna know what uncle Jesse has to say about all of this.
She’s from the Cosby show!
@@JimmyGrl09 They're talking about Candace not Raven....
“Have Mercy”
All these businesses refusing to serve the LGBT community, because of their "religious belief" I wonder how many of them would refuse the service form an EMT that is Gay, or A fire fighter that is a Lesbian, or a Police officer who is Bi, if they were hurt, or there business was on fire, or someone had stole from them, how many of them would refuse to accept mail from a Transgender mail carrier? or would refuse the Help from a Dr.,in the ER, because, she is a lesbian? NONE OF THEM, but that should be against their 'RELIGIOUS BELIEFS" also?
Or how many of these businesses would refuse to serve someone who is divorced, or who is a single mom, or someone who believes in another religion, or someone who doesn't believe in religion, all things against their "religious beliefs " but THEY WOULD serve them. so NO ITS NOT about religion its about their own selfishness, and hate.
Meri justus It's not about them being gay, it's the gay wedding. They did an interview stating they would have no problem baking a gay person a birthday cake. They just don't want to bake a cake that celebrates something they feel is wrong. You're comparing two COMPLETELY different things.
in their beliefs, it is also wrong to divorce, but Im sure they have made plenty of divorce cakes, or wedding cakes for people who have been married before, both of those are celebrating things they should feel is wrong, but i bet they do it. they are cherry picking who they want to serve. or what events they want to serve
Divorce cakes? Do you mean cakes of people remarrying? That's what I mean. They wouldn't know if the person was getting remarried or not unless they asked. Two women coming in and asking for a wedding cake makes it clear that they're gay. Privately owned businesses should have the right to refuse service to whoever they want. If I owned a business and a bunch of klansmen came in, I most definitely would not serve them. The government shouldn't have the right to tell people who to serve.
Diana Whitley no i mean a cake for someone celebrating a divorce, and wedding cakes for someone getting married for the 3 rd, 4 th or 5th time, if they are able to refuse service to someone who is getting married who is LGBT then they will be able to ask those questions, and wont have to bake cakes for any one they dont want to.
and what if i went to a bakery by my self and said i needed a wedding cake, and they refused because they assumed that I am a lesbian? or if they didnt pick up on it and after I picked it up, called them and said thank you for the wedding cake my soon to be wife is going to love it, are they going to come take it away? its against their beliefs still.
That's the thing though, they didn't assume they were a lesbian couple, they knew from the moment two women walked in asking for a cake for their wedding. And like I said, how would you know if someone was getting married for the 2nd, 3rd, or 4th times unless they asked? Most don't announce how many times they've been married previously. They just go in and ask for the wedding cake. Though I believe they should have the right to refuse service to people who are getting married for the 2nd, 3rd, or 4th time as well. And divorce cakes? lol who does that? But if they were asked to bake a divorce cake, they should have the right to refuse. They should have the right to refuse service to anyone who they don't want to serve because it's their business.
Why was it cut off there? I was interested in hearing her complete thought. This show is so biased, it's sick.
NintendoMac10 so are some people too. I agree with you.
That's what this show "The View" is all about.
One sided, one directional, emotional, liberal bias.
Tsuruta1 it's not like you're lying. Truth.
Then go watch fucking Fox News you morons. Everybody knows they’re so “fair and balanced”. There isn’t any conservative bias there at all is there? At least this show has an actual conservaturd on it. Candace gets her stupid opinion heard every day. What more do you little snowflakes need.
Found the triggered lib.
Hopefully Raven learns and matures to realize not everyone is going to believe what she believes. And... you can discuss differences without being disrespectful.
Pls join this discord server if you're interested.
discord.gg/7Sa2CNWGQv
The main purpose is to create a group of like minded anti-left people where ideas can be shared...
This was 8 years ago, so maybe that's happened but yes, we need a lot more of that in America in general right now, as the divisiveness, utter tribalism and echo chamber thinking as really reached a fever pitch. Families and certainly countless friendships have fallen apart over what in the past I'd argue would've just been accepted as mere differences in opinion. Nuance is a thing, and civil debate can benefit everyone, but it seems that's all gone out the window now.
Raven....cant handle someone else has a different opion...
Maybe Raven felt attacked, she just married a woman a few weeks ago.
I understand why she's upset when someone is telling people like her that they will refuse services because they dont like her lifestyle. She has a right to be upset about an opinion which could directly affect her because opinions lead to actions.
Anti-gay straight people can’t handle that someone else has a different sexual orientation
The difference is Raven is disagreeing with her, and anti-gay straight people take away gay people’s rights.
*That’s* the real apples and oranges.
@@lartisteautravail YES ^^
I would refuse raven business just because I dont like her attitude. Depends on how much she was spending tho.
Why are people going to child TV actors for political discussions
Why are people watching the view for substantial content that includes political discussions that's the real question?
Honestly, it came up in my recommended.
They aren't child actors, they were child actors when they were children.
OK, *former* child actors then. Though Candace is still reprising her popular role in the reboot of a popular series. Some people prefer the 'D.J. Tanner' Candace over the political Candace, like me.
well, because they've grown up, SOME of them have gotten educated and are allowed to have opinions. child tv actors are human beings with brains (again, some) as well.
I agree with Candace on this matter 100%. And it doesn't matter if people disagree! That is okay world. We can havebour own opinions!
***** well that is your opinion and I respect that. I feel like Raven had her opinion totally fine and Candace had her own opinion completely different and that is fine. My opinion is that this bakery has the right to not bake this cake.
Theresa Walden of course you respect his opinion because they didn't say anything rude or discriminatory towards you. It's not the same, I'm not respecting your opinion because your personally attacking my character (I don't necessarily mean you)
Theresa Walden For real. But if you don't agree with someone, apparently you're discriminating and just plain wrong. Why can't people agree to disagree?
Thank you Talena Bell that is what I'm saying.
Talena Bell
Would you feel the same if it was a discussion about race? Like I'm not trying to attack you or anything I'm just asking for an opinion.
When you have a business you have THE RIGHT TO REFUSE ANYONE
“I have the right to treat you differently than I and to give you less than what I deserve. That’s okay right?”
In the moment, yes, you can refuse service. You can also be sued later for discrimination. There are federal laws for protected class citizens based on race, gender, age, religion, and disability. Many states have laws put in place for LGBTQ, as well, but for now they are not a protected class on the federal level. So yes, you can refuse service...and it may cost you later.
Candace has such grace and class. I hope Raven can find peace, love, joy and happiness. Raven's attitude is a long way away from there. Prayers and love.
Raven is happy 😅
This hasn't aged well
@@Truecrimeresearcher224 what do you mean?
@Carolyn Kim agree!
@carolynkim669 she is accepts all her Brothers and Sisters in Christ. If her opinion is that a man and a woman belong together in her mind and heart doesn't mean she has control over what anyone else does in this lifetime. Only God has all of the control. There's only haters in one's life if you allow them to be. Otherwise don't surround yourself or listen to them.
I am with Candice on this. People can deny a service if they don’t want to. Just go to another freaking cake store. 🤨🤨🤨
U shouldn’t have to, wtf
You obviously don’t know the full story.
You can deny a service but when you do it based on someone's sexuality it is called discrimination.
Bakery
So if I said I wouldn't make a cake with a bible verse because I don't believe its OK to condone eons of clergy abuse that would be ok then 🙄
That’s okay. Stephanie was always my favorite anyways.
Same!
Nah , I CANT CHOOSE, I LOVE ALL THE TANNER GIRLS EQUALLY❤🤞🏾
Candace is an amazing, kind and positive person
I had this EXACT thought, hahaha. Petty, but truuue. HOW RUDE:P
😂😂
As Whoopi Goldberg pointed out “But was the baker invited to the waiting?” All he had to do was bake the cake.
I don't agree with Candace on this issue but Raven's response was so stupid and immature. "I refuse to associate with you right now." Really?? She is so annoying; how the heck did she wind up on The View?
+Alicia Engel I agree too on about Raven. She was VERY immature. :( She puts up her wall because of how the world wants to act. And instead of what you're suppose to do on a show like this, is to respect other people's views and listen out, Raven did not do that, she doesn't do that, she needs to leave the show. And not instantly put up your wall because a Christian woman speaks.
Nikki Breanne That's true. She's very narrow minded. Regardless of how you feel about Candace, at least she listens to what other people have to say and is respectful.
Alicia Engel because she can.
The fact remains that we still have freedom of religion in this country, and if these bakers did not want to endorse this couple's gay marriage by baking a commemorative cake for their ceremony, they have the right to refuse. It is my understanding that the gay couple has purchased goods in this bakery before, and there were NO issues. The bakery is not turning away gays! They simply refused to condone gay marriage based on their religious beliefs. Don't see why this case is even being heard!
Deborah Hartenstine they are a bakery, they didn't have to wish the couple good luck or congratulate them on the wedding. They didn't have to say they support their marriage, all they had to do was bake a cake
***** Certainly not the same thing. Wasn't the couple customers of this bakery? Did the bakery refuse to serve them in the past? Not that I'm aware of. My fear is that more and more religious freedoms are being taken away in the name of political correctness. The kosher Jew refuses to eat in restaurants that do not serve kosher foods, because of their religious beliefs. Should they be fined? If you had a bakery in the south and refused to make goods for a KKK gathering, should you be fined? What if you knew a neighbor was a follower of radical Islam and they brought their car to your shop for repair? Can you refuse without being fined? Where does BIG government end?
Deborah Hartenstine That is the right of a customer to refuse eating at a place that does not meet their need. THAT is how it works in the service industry. What exactly IS your religious freedom? Do you even have a full understanding of what that does or doesn't entail?
If you don't want to invite anyone into your home who does not share your beliefs, that is your choice and you can even by law handle accordingly. Same goes for if a church refuses patronage of members of the community it doesn't wish to come into contact with. They exercise this freedom almost on a daily basis. If you want to practice that religion, without infringing on others right to do so as well, and without fear of being persecuted, THAT is your religious freedom. Belittling others, or trying to load your beliefs on others because they don't share you religious views however, is not part of that deal. That isn't religious freedom, that is you being an asshole. And this is not just you hating your muslim neighbor, this has gone way beyond your little domestic problems.
When you offer a business to the public, the anti discriminatory laws trump your religious freedom and rightly so. Because your belief does not make you above the law.
It is not a fault of the system that Christians believe that their view and their rights go above all other peoples. That they can become a political entity in this country, that isn't being taxed, and influences laws made in order to load their views unto people that might not even be Christians. Hell, that they even go into Africa's various countries and push bills that call for the extermination of an entire group of people. This isn't about your everyday domestic life as a Christian. Your religion is a political entity that is trying to influence laws of state that govern over people that may or may not want anything to do with you. And you speak of more and more religious freedoms being infringed upon? What a hypocrite and obvious ignorant you are. You want to be able to be a bigot and to discriminate against gays and possibly even blacks, jews, muslims, and whoever else doesn't fit your bill and what not without being branded for it and without being called out on your antiquated bullshit.
Political correctness? How about human decency. If you cannot abide by laws that have been set up, and believe your religious freedom entails breaking that law because you have the religious freedom to do it, then you have absolutely NO business having a business in the service sector.
Stop playing victim when you Christians have been aggressors since Goddess knows how far back in history.
Deborah Hartenstine You're correct, but the fine they received wasn't because of them not refusing to serve the lesbian couple by making the wedding cake. It was what happened after they had refused the couple to make the cake for them. These bakery shop owners called up the media and told them about the lesbian couple that came to their shop and gave them personal info and their address in where they were located at. The lesbian couple found out about this and they started getting death threats from people in the community. They found out it was the bakery shop owners that did it and filed a discrimination complaint to the state of Oregon on the bakery shop owners. I mean these owners can refuse to make the wedding cake due to their religious beliefs, but they should not have alerted the media about them and gave info about the couple. That was uncalled for.
If that is indeed the way they behaved, I find it very disappointing. I support their right to refuse to participate in a gay wedding by supplying the cake. But that's as far as my support runs! As Christians, their job is to LOVE as Christ loves. Leave the judging up to God!
The bakers had the right to refuse. Is it socially acceptable? No. Is it right? Probably not... But do they have the right to refuse? Absolutely. It's their business and they do have the right to say no to whoever they want.
learn the law trump tard
super, STFU tump tard
But that didn't give those hypocritical bakers, Melissa & Aaron Kline, the right to put the lesbian couple's PERSONAL and PRIVATE information on social media, which only resulted in the two women being the subject of death threats, obscene phone calls & having rocks thrown at their house.
That move right there was one of the biggest reasons the court ruled in favor of the lesbian couple and the Klines were forced to shut down their bigoted bakery.
Candace is right here, they have every right to refuse service if they are. Private organization. They can do it for whatever reason they want even if they don't like the clothes you wear and if you don't like it go to a different place. Why would you want someone to make your cake that doesn't even agree with your lifestyle?
it was a PUBLIC business
She right but what you didn't know was the business had posted the couples address and the couple was harassed. They were fostering children at the time so they too were getting harassed. The couple actually didn't want to go to court but they had to sue for the damages that were done. The were actually trying to adopt the children and in order for that to happen they had to protect the children from harassment. This business made that difficult. So.... they had a right to sue.
Girl sexuality isn’t a lifestyle what 😭 it’s literally basic human rights.. that’s why it goes along with Black people. The discrimination we deal bc of who we love is truly heart breaking.
You really think we wanna go through the discrimination like no. Just proves sexuality isn’t a “life style or a choice.”
Well then they should have a sign on the door and tell the public that they don’t serve gay people so that they won’t accidentally give them any business
I thought Raven was going to snatch her up with those looks she was giving.
mykel1990 when the christian lady was talking about "respecting everyone's views" at the end of the video and raven was nodding, i got some serious chills. that was a nod of death right there. raven is coming after you lady, run
mykel1990 She is nasty, I have stopped watching because of her mostly, Joy was an angry one too. Man they must have really high blood pressure, so much anger and hate, it is not pretty, but Christians will be persecuted from the beginning of time until the end, you can quote the bible on that, so it is just the way it is and always will be.
Love Candace's confidence when she talks. She is so amazing and a great role model for our younger generation
100% agreed
it is great to have that much confidence when preaching hate.
Rightt!! I love her!!
They cut the video as soon as Candace started checking Raven 😂 Raven was very disrespectful....and flashy about it.
They both have points. Yes, it sucks that someone is judged for being a different race or sexual orientation. But also, you will NEVER get everyone to like you. Candace is kind of right when she says we need to just accept we have different views. People are killing their own lives trying to get everyone to treat them perfectly. I am a white dude, used to be fat. I am treated poorly in life too. I cried in school sometimes from being made fun of. I always felt like the fattest kid in the world. I've never had many people like me or help me in anything. It's always just been me against the world, even though my entire life has been an attempt to help people. It's impossible to make the world change. But you can change how you deal with it and how you see it.
I'm sorry you went through such a tough time! Despite those who have treated you wrongly, please know you can have Someone who has compassion on all He had made (Psalm 145:9). Someone who, be you following Him, is for you and not against you (Romans 8:31). The world can be so cruel, but when the world and satan attack us, in Christ you can confidently say "greater is He who is in me than he who is in the world (1 John 4:4). Who is it that overcomes the world? Those who believe Jesus is the Son of God. Through Him, we have peace this world cannot give (Philippians 4:4-19). Although the Christian life isn't absent of difficulty, it is a life where we have a constant strength and comfort in the midst of our difficulty when we abide in Christ. And in the end, God, who knitted us in our mother's womb, will receive us unto Himself, and the former griefs of this life will pass away forever. However, in order for this hope, you must accept Christ. If you ever think about becoming a Christian, I recommend reading: Romans 8, John 3, 1 Corinthians 15, Romans 5-6, Matthew 19:7, John 14-15, and the Gospels in general if you can ever make time. You're in my prayers 🙏💕
You may dislike someone, but you may not discriminate.
Religion isn't a free pass to discriminate. Hope that 200k fine was worth their ignorance.
Also, it's ok to have different views. You don't get to discriminate legally based on those views.
@@delsingray5923 It's not discriminatory, she's allowed to not include content she doesn't see fit. Her Christian values are valid and a first amendment right, and she's under no obligation to compromise. There are plenty of other networks that produce the content you're looking for. I don't mean to sound mean or harsh by the way, this is just my viewpoint
This has nothing to do with getting everyone to like u could say that in regards to the whole sexuality part but other than that not the same
Respect that we have opposing views
No..Respect God💚
“Respect that I don’t believe you’re equal to me”
easy to do that when you’re straight and it doesn’t fucking affect you at all.
@@jarettlee8278 its easy to do regardless, and it only affects you if you choose to let it. Respect and tolerance is something everyone deserves, but nobody should be forced to accept you and your life choices. Nobody has to go against what they believe just for little old you, its called freedom.
Homophobia is not an opinion, it‘s evil and pure bigotry.
I believe when you’re in a business... you can should be able to choose! It’s your business. GO ELSEWHERE!
*I am friends with all people. However, don't you want to go where you're wanted? Just go elsewhere.
I am not going to cause drama if someone doesn't want me there.
Now if that gay couple were to go out and tell other gay pple not to go to That bakery is that discrimination against the bakery
It IS discrimination. But I'd appreciate knowing about those discriminatory ways as to know I SHOULD take my gay business and money elsewhere. .
Katrina B if you had any common sense you would know being gay isn’t a religion, it doesn’t have a book or a god guiding it, it’s not the same thing. Race is something you can’t help because god made you. God didn’t make you gay.
Rachael Tucker glad you weren’t the one who created that amendment then. You also clearly don’t understand business
Aiman Steele nowhere in that persons comment was god ever mentioned. Last time I checked, there was still separation of church and state
Isn’t weird that raven and Candace has known each other for years and worked together...every one is different from friends, family and colleagues.
They never worked together with each other . They worked on the same soundstage back in the 90's , but that's about it
@@GMANKOOL23Candace guest starred on that’s so raven as her teacher
@@Sweetbunniez I didn't know that . Thank you . I just saw the clip a few mins ago
I'm so proud of Candice for staying strong on this subject
IDIOT!!!!
I love that she has a gay son so she can stop being a bigot and stop letting her Cristian views affect respect for other human beings. Just make the cake and take the money.
Ravens face when she said I think your comparing apples to oranges 😂😂😂
This is why I say, seperate work from personal issues if you want a real business.
God must be in everything related to business
Anyone hear the term money talks
@@yoy58913 you can attempt to do that... But once u trample someone elses rights its a wrap
redcinos I would watch what I say about God Trust me . Remember the next time something bad happens in your life and your crying to him for help
@@mrcruise8101 not every1 does that buddy.
Some of us have common sense
Freedom of association was practiced to not serve black people, and if your basis wasn't to bake a cake for an interracial wedding because a ceremony was for a black or interracial couple, that would be unconstitutional.
Raven needs to drop the attitude and stop with the snobby faces. Respect that people have opposing views.
Right?? She was so childish in this discussion.
2:36 Candace talking about “respecting different views” as the views she’s defending directly disrespect other people. If a view is disrespectful, it deserves disrespect.
They didnt respect lesbians.. They made cakes for them before... 🤷🏻♀️
In the marriage they wont believe.... So they could have asked someone else for to make cake
Yes, she's just as much of a hypocrite as her ilk
Raven is a fool let's not forget that she said she was "from every continent in Africa".
Brian Young
It is passable
It is possible if she did ancestry dna.
That makes sense.
Most African americans arent even just that.
And dna tests are naming many different African tribes for so many of us.
Tashana Walker no it’s not because Africa is a continent .. so that statement doesn’t make sense unless she is saying she is from every country in Africa.. that would make sense..
Winnie Johnson your AncestryDNA can be from different parts so whatever I wasn’t even worried about this anymore
Candace Cameron: spitting facts, being a respectful adult
Raven: acting like a child
This is a little off topic but I really miss THIS dynamic of view where even if you didn't agree with someone on the panel, the interaction always stuck with you.
Cande is annoying. There whole family is talentless
Candace hit the nail at the end. Respect my opposing view the same way I respect yours.
Exactly!
that's fine to have opposing views, discrimination is clearly subjective here because who's to say I can't deny service to someone because they're Black?
Khadiyah Thomas the context of the conversation is about the actually ceremony. The guy won the case ultimately because it was about not wanting to partake in the ceremony
@@christopherliverman8333 Two things: I'm applying the same logic so what's the difference? and 2. I don't understand why he wouldn't just decline instead of suing, where's the other information?
Khadiyah Thomas because it’s not a discrimination case. It was about not wanting be part of the ceremony. He would have made them another cakes for something else but it was about the ceremony not who they were. He didn’t initiate the lawsuit.
Raven was not having it. And damn I did not know that was DJ.
Candace is very "You do you, I'll do me". She's gonna preach for what she believes, but on her own. She's not that type of person that tries to make everyone believe what she believes, and as a gay person I respect her for that. But i do agree with Raven in the sense that that they (the lesbian couple) aren't doing any harm to you or your business (person with conflicting views on same sex marriage) on the contrary, they're willing to pay you to make your cake. They're just doing them. If YOU don't like gay marriage, don't get gay married
Exactly. A good Christian
I’m a Christian as well . I personally would have baked the cake . It’s a cake. It doesn’t mean they had to go to the wedding …. They just needed a cake for their big day . We are taught to be the light in the Earth and show love to everyone . Yes we have our beliefs it’s just for us though. And anyone else who wants to follow . But I agreed with Candace
Better yet if they don’t like gay marriage maybe they should find another job because gay is here to stay so if they not willing to make cakes then I guess go out of business! I mean I respect them because hey Candace is right it’s in the constitution but I guess my gay friends will have to buy a cake somewhere else. Sorry but if you don’t keep up then the jobs not for you. Even clothing stores are folding because they are not keeping up with trends or demands from the public
@@Angie_bae The bakery in this case (and in the case that went to SCOTUS after this clip) never refused to sell cakes to gay people or bake them cakes generally. They wouldn't bake a _specific cake_ in celebration of the wedding of a same-sex couple. The baker in the case that ended up at SCOTUS was willing to sell the couple a cake for them to use at the wedding, and he was willing to bake them custom birthday cakes, he just didn't think it was right to make a custom cake specifically for a same-sex wedding. He also wouldn't make custom Halloween cakes, for example, because he believed those also conflicted with his religious beliefs.
Bakers have been permitted to refuse to bake custom cakes with anti-gay messages and pro-Christianity messages. Muslim bakers have refused same-sex wedding cakes as well. I would expect no one would want a black person to have to bake a cake celebrating white power. We all should be a bit kinder to one another, and that includes appreciating when someone has done everything they can to accommodate us without violating their religious beliefs--when they have been loving and respectful to us as people, even if they disagree with our behavior. Bigots won't make it ambiguous that they hate us as people. Let's focus on that.
I would make it clear that my bakery is Christian and that alone should tell you to not bring your homosexual beliefs over here.
"i refuse to associate with you right now is that ok?" Yes it is! Thats called freedom!. And if you are not for that then you are for the opposite.
Jeremy calhoun And if people had any strong ingenuity in them when people tell them that, I woulda said "Your loss, homes!", or not even said shit at all. But now you see how weak hearted we have become and want to have feelings to be easily offended by the re-action of people.
They probably would be making out
A private business owner has a right to serve whoever they want, since the business owner pays his or her business taxes, cost of paying for their business products and rent! How dare outsiders dictate what a business owner should do.
I feel for Raven. Considering she is a part of the LGBTQ community and it would be hard to to get defensive over it
I don't watch this show...but at this time was she out yet... She seemed upset obviously because she's lbgt. I saw her shoot a look at Whoopi like Whoopi may have known...but not the others..
Me too. To not give cake to a gay married couple because thats not what you believe in is the same thing as not making a cake for a black couple.
@@thruthemotions this particular bakery had baked other things like cakes/cookies etc for this same sex couple in the past. However, it was against their religious beliefs to bake a cake for a ceremony that goes against their faith.
I love liberals, they demand respect and acceptance for themselves & their lifestyle & beliefs yet are extremely intolerant of doing the same for others.
This bakery gladly baked other goods for this gay couple, so obviously they werent homophobes!!
@@kleeamd8274 Ok
Oh well, that's her problem. She needs Jesus, but I know her sexual abuse as a child has her confused.
I watched a news report on the actual case and the baker was not rude to them. He didn't want to bake a cake but offered brownies and cupcakes because cakes are art for him. I don't think it's discrimination because he only said he himself didn't want to make his cakes that are special to him.
As a religious lesbian, I would accept it 100%. I grew up in a community where people accept me, and people accept me but don't accept the lifestyle. A company has a right to refuse service for whatever they want, and if that's their reason then so be it. There are some hardcore Christians out their, and they shouldn't have to change their beliefs because everyone else is. I'm not going to waste my time trying to get people to see my point of view, because they think I'm sinning.
+Rebecca Thompson "hardcore Christians out their, and they shouldn't have to change their beliefs".....but, isn't that kind of silly when Christians have passed laws forcing all businesses to serve them equally?
+Tifany Stills Not all Christians have forced anything. You'll meet plenty of Christians who don't approve, but will let you go about your day. This company sold product to other gay people, they just didn't want to make a wedding cake. That's okay, they don't believe people in same sex relationships should get married, we can't change their opinion. Companies have the right to refuse service to anyone, and that's what this company did. They still serve gay people, they just don't want to make a wedding cake for a gay couple. Being fined 135,000$ is a little extreme. Urban Outfitters corporate company doesn't hire gay people, and if they find out you are homosexual they let you go because "you don't fit" company standards.
I'm a lesbian, but and I believe that everyone should be accepting of it. It's 2016, but realistically not everyone is going to accept us for who we are. We can't change that, and they shouldn't be fined for it.
***** Are you slow? Are you not getting it? The law forces all businesses to serve Christians equally. As long as the law requires gays to serve Christians, then Christians should be required to serve gays. The court has already ruled on this issue, cake does not equal religious belief.
A company does NOT have the right to refuse service based on protected status.
Things like skin color or gender.
For me sexual orientation is the same thing.
Why do the World Christians argue with desires, emotions, preferences, understanding e.t.c? The point of reference is the Bible. What does the Bible say- marriage was designed by God as an institution between a man and a woman, period! Everything else other than God's definition is human cleverness and you know what, humans are not so clever- they cut trees then calls it global warming and start running all over in a crisis moment. How then do you trust that humans even know what is best for them or what they are feeling at a given point in time. God decreed it and it is so, period! Better like it and pray for grace and forgiveness because God always wins and He is not man that He should lie. If he says Homosexuality is sin- then it is sin. If He says in Rev 21 that those who are sexually immoral will burn in hot sulphur, you better believe Him. How does a created being fault The Creator? How does a computer tell it's engineer, I know more than you.
Human beings are just but dust, when left to their ways they self destruct- if you do not believe me, look at what comes out of our labs today- intelligent scientists , learned, with PHDs building chemical weapons, for what? May God have mercy on all our souls and save us from our "clever ways"
I actually think Candace was very respectful towards Raven here. She did not get mad or make a stank face like Raven did. Even though Candace has opposing views compared to Raven, she was very respectful. I am for gay rights but definitely I will never go against someone if they didn’t believe the same things I do. It’s all about respecting people’s beliefs.
you are allowed to refuse service but this bakery went beyond that i just read up on it they mocked this couple on fb and other things that is wrong
Really show me the Quote WHERE they did this?
God just get a cake from somewhere else
Costco lol
robert stanley
HAHAHA. YES ! Their sheet cake is amazing!
Shouldnt have to. Thats the point.
Discrimination is NEVER okay or right.
Jacob don’t run a business if you’re not gonna abide by the law
You could hear Michelle gasp when candance said she didn't believe it was discrimination. Lollllll that cracked me up.
Candace looks so good here - love the hair - I just finished watching Fuller House and it was such good, cheesy fun to revisit my favorite show from childhood. It’s great how the whole cast is like family IRL and support each other through thick and thin while respecting their political, religious, lifestyle differences
Candice was chubby when she was younger and now she's had botox
Candace was so respectful with her case and provided clear evidence as to why the bakers were in the clear.
The bakers who posted the address of the lesbian couple? The bakers who mocked said lesbian couple and incited violence towards them (which risked their foster kids being removed from their care)? That's what they were being sued for. Definitely not in the clear
Being “respectful” doesn’t negate her being blatantly racist and homophobic. And on The View with 2 Black Femmes in their midst… embarrassing to the actual core.
separation of church and state
Thank you Candace!!!!
I like Cameron and respect her stance. All they had to do was go somewhere else.
Agree! If someone doesn't want to provide a service for whatever reason, I would go elsewhere and leave it at that. Don't bad-mouth the service.
Ravens face is just like "b***h stfu"
Why do gays force their beliefs on others but when others whom don't agree with the homosexual lifestyle is considered a hater/discriminator
Because what you call a belief on the front of the gays, is something they would call a right. They feel they have the right to stand up for their rights. You are also calling it a lifestyle instead of an orientation, making it appear as if they have a choice. So yes, if someone calls you a discriminator, I am more inclined to belief that you were discriminating at that point. I wouldn't call you hater, just ignorant to how your actions are hateful, but it's probably not your intent.
+Maggie You can disagree with same sex marriage all you want in my opinion, but if you want to enforce that belief then you are indeed discriminating against people.
Also there is a difference between a religious marriage and a state marriage. State shouldn't be able to influence what a religious marriage entails but religion shouldn't be able to influence what a state marriage entails. You can have your opinion on religious marriage all you want without being close-minded, but if you are going outside your religion to enforce beliefs on people that might not be of your religion and make them play by your religions rules, then you are being a close-minded discriminating person.
You have your right to your religious beliefs, let other people also have their right to their religious beliefs and even their right to not be religious.
So in your example, it's not the same thing unless the person that agrees with same sex marriage wants to have a same sex marriage in a church that is absolutely against that. In that case I would also call them a bad person.
JD I understand where you are coming from. There are some that act like children if you don't believe their way. One thing people will have to do is understand just because many don't agree with the lifestyle does not make them a hater or even a discriminator. Yes, some actions do seem forced as well. IMO, if you decide to go forward with your actions, be mature enough to understand that everyone's opinions will not be the same. They can still love you unconditionally and one's agenda should never be used as a bargaining chip such as "if you don't like what I do, that means you don't love me".
One's ways might not seem the right way in the eyes of another but that unconditional love is there and I think that should be the focus on BOTH sides!!!! This lawsuit is almost like throwing a tantrum and it's immature in my opinion. Madonna's brother, who is gay, broke down his response in a video as he was upset that this couple would even consider suing. I wish I could find the video. He gave a wonderful, wise commentary.
I've noticed that people that lash out with name calling and hateful actions at someone who isn't pro gay. That can be just as horrific just the actions of some (not all) uppity, hypocritical Christians that discriminate. Where's the maturity? God does give us choice and yes, the Bible clearly states that the homosexual lifestyle is NOT his blueprint for people. For those who believe in the Bible, also know God at the same time gives free will. At the end of the day, the choice and decision making is between God and that one individual. Now, if you exercise free will, be man or woman enough to deal with whatever comes at your in a mature manner instead using someone's opposing outlook to yell, lash, harass, bully and curse out folks. If you're proud of your decision at least keep your dignity about yourself. Don't spend time hating on folks that love you but don't love your orientation per se. There are some folks that will flat out hate you inside and out because of your orientation. Forget that you may be a cool person, they'll hate you just because you're gay, flat out. That's not right! Just it's not right if a Pro gay individual hates a person just be a they don't agree with them on the matter. That's just as wrong. For whichever side one may on regarding this matter, know at the end of the day, spewing venom and hatred will anyone over but that love is a powerful thing and should be used more.
Why does Christians force their beliefs on everyone. They literally won’t bake a cake because of their beliefs and imposing them on the gay couple.
@@maggiesayre640 Read my comment above
1) Homophobia is not an opinion
2) Normalizing bigotry is dangerous
3) There is nothing wrong with being gay
4) Refusing Gay Individuals or Couples Services is very f-cked up, i am sorry.
ACA
Not WRONG if you don't want to ASSOCIATE. PERIOD.....
@@LucaJacobson8168 But why? There is not a rational reason. Being gay is normal and natural. Homophobia is unnecessary bigotry. He/She does not have to attend the wedding. I‘m sorry, but that‘s how I feel.
@@Dog-bb8hr no man, being gay is not normal, its accepted but don't u dare say it's normal cause it's not
@@ddwalker3744 it exists in every specie therefore it’s normal sorry not sorry
I'm on Raven side 100% but she needs to remember she'll discriminate based on someone's name so she needs to stop acting holier-than-thou just saying
However, skin color and orientation aren't the same thing.
you only with her cos she black just like how most blacks voted for obama who was mixed raised. You say things shouldn’t be about race but then make it be about race in America smh
Back when Raven Simone and DJ from Full House were on The View... wow.
Loving ravens hair anyone agree it's awesome
sweetiestrawberrie15 Love IT !!! ... She is finally showing who she really is, not some made up profile of what others want her to be.... GO RAVEN !!!
helookalikaman79 yes!
She looks like an idiot.
I'd have to go with Candace on this one !!! Why do you have to impose your beliefs on people ??? We all have different beliefs and we must respect that !!!
Why would you want service from a place that doesn't want your business in the first place
I like how the straight white woman is trying to talk to the black lesbian about discrimination
First, I think it's incredibly rude how they talk over one another. I saw the same behavior from Whoopi when Carly Fiorina, the female GOP candidate, was on as a guest not too long ago, when the issue of abortion was on the table. I side with Candace on this one. This bakery had done business with this couple in the past with no problem. It was not a matter of not serving them BASED SOLELY on this couple's sexual orientation. The race arguments of the past do not fly in this case. As a Christian, I understand that my religion compels me not to take part in a same-sex ceremony. In the Christian faith, marriage is a sacred institution between two individuals of the opposite sex. Serving a homosexual a hamburger is not a violation of religious conscience; being asked to cater a same-sex ceremony, is. There is a difference.
Raven is always talking about race...🙄🙄🙄
+Maya Isaac gays are the most racist people on earth
Rat Trap supervisor i agree. Some of the biggest racists I have met are gays
@@EdwinMon1986 😂
Because we endure the racism.
Why shouldnt we???
@Sarah Johnston but i dont what?
So back in 2023. Something I learned about constitutional law that is interesting. There are two kinds of rights positive rights and negative rights. Negative rights is a list of things the government cannot do to you. Positive rights is something the government must provide for you. So freedom of religion is a negative right. The government cannot tell you what god to believe in, Nor can they force you to believe in a god, nor can they stop you from believing in a God. A negative right also means they are not obligated to provide religion for you. The right to equal treatment is a positive right, that means it is the government’s obligation to make sure that you’re not being treated any differently than any other person that walks through the door of the bakery. What does that mean when a lesbian couple wants a wedding cake from somebody who doesn’t personally believe in gay marriage. So the government can’t force the baker to give up their belief, however The government is duty-bound to guarantee that a couple is not being treated any differently than any other customer who comes through the door. I would submit ruling in favor of the lesbian couple for two reasons. Reason number one, where do you draw the line. There are people who belong to religions that say the races cannot intermarry, and there are religions and say people of different faiths cannot intermarry I.e. a Christian marrying a Jew. Reason number two, religion is a negative right, The government cannot take it away from you, but the government is under no obligation to provide it for you.
Listen, Im gay(lesbian) & I think as a business owner you can deny people for whatever reason. Even if its completely absurd. People are not obligated to use your service, so I don't think you should be obligated to serve them. This is a democracy. Lets not redistribute rights here. We shouldn't be infringing on ones rights to serve another. That judgment especially is completely ridiculous. They hurt your feelings one time & now have to suffer so much. Im sure even business owners don't just have that kinda cash lying around.
The judgement was for a different reason they did not say on the view. The bakery owners put the couple's information online and they started getting threats that's what the judgement was for.
I'm just wondering what the religious significance of wedding cake is? I don't recall ever seeing the wedding cake during the religious ceremony at any wedding?
I support gay marriage and gay rights BUT come on guys, lets not force people to do "extra" things inside their own private business against their beliefs ... the keyword is "CUSTOM-MAKE". Aside from the general secular range of things that businesses are
required to offer to ALL customers without discrimination (like an unmarked or non-specific-belief cake), they should not be forced to custom make things beyond beyond the general range to cater to a specific purpose antithetical to their beliefs..
Just like a gay-supporter publisher should not be forced to publish anti-gay propaganda materials ..
That’s So Raven vs Full House
Raven Home vs Fuller House
2024 Edition.