Honestly a lot of new players need to watch this video because when i was first starting out i thought higher priced guns made you “better” or they shot more accurate…2 years later i have 2 tm40’s,170r and a mini gs and honestly they all shoot very similar expect for the air efficiency and ergonomics i play the exact same with my mini gs (360$) then a do with my tm40 (1600$)
Back when I started was around the time of the etek 2 and in some cases back then yeah it was worth it if you were playing tourneys but after the etek 3 came out that was the end of the point of buying the high-end stuff.
Started off with a Tippmann and some how managed my way up to the NXL in 2007. Returned after about 12 years off to play rec and the mech-10 man stuff. Back in the heyday, yes, the more expensive guns mattered because it was simply more reliable, better on paint and also faster (when speed mattered). Fast forward to today, spool guns are so refined now one could hit the field with a $400 Etha 3 and the only thing limiting your success would be your gun fighting and play making skills. What I see the more expensive guns offer is the maintenance process is more refined, efficiency and consistency improvements (pretty marginal from what I can see) and the guns are sleeker and materials used makes the guns feel better in your hands. Since the early 2000's, as the game evolved from the bushes and trees, fashion also became important factor of the game, which began the rise of colorful and flashy guns. The guns offered today, no matter the price point, are simply awesome.
I wanted one so bad when I was a kid. I recently bought one online that is not in working order and someday when I’m not busy I want to get that thing going
The rise of the mid price point is half the reason I'm considering getting back into paintball. When I played in the early/mid 2000's, it was exactly like you described. Either you dropped an absurd amount of money, or you were playing a tippman, maybe with some upgrades. I tried to go the automag route which was a mid price point offering and eventually it just stopped working, while my brother's tippmann pressed on. Paintball is too expensive and time consuming for the average person to justify spending even 1k on a base setup, but for $300 to $500, it's enough of an investment where it will make you want to use it, but not feel sick if you end up not playing enough.
This is exactly how I feel. I'm looking to get back into paintball with my GF. For under $1000, I can get 2 nice mechanical marker setups. And if we only play 8-10 times a year I'd feel like it'd be worth it.
I actually had really good luck with my ICD Promaster but yeah, everything else in the mid price was terrible. After I went bob long, I was never going back lol.
A mag that stopped working? This is hard to believe honestly. Mine sat around for 20 years after a lot of use and zero rebuilds. I screwed a tank onto it and the only leaks were the macro line fittings haha. I have rehabbed it now and it's awesome to play with my old gun. I have a couple autocockers that are next on the rehab list. I do agree though, when I was playing in the early 2000s you either put some light mods onto a spyder or tippman or spent all the money on something fancy. There was no middle of the road.
I love the way 2005 is referred to as back in the day. I stated in 1988 with a 10 shot splat master pistol that took 12g co2 bottle that lasted 20 shots. Moved to a Diablo pump when they came out then to a Bud Sniper pump, a bud auto cocker and finally an Angel and ultimately quit both tournament and rec playing in the sumer of 2000 . Seeing these new guns with screens and settings blows me away.
@@SRV24243 Paintball was getting huge by late 90s. I played from 1992 to 2003. I started up again in 2010, and there was maybe half the amount of players.
I have the Etha 3 and have also tried out different high-end guns from other players. I told them "yeah it's better" but really I didn't notice much of a difference except the weight and easier programming with the screen.
I bought a used Etha 2 a few years ago, and the lack of a screen is a little annoying because I have to read the manual every time I want to change something. I’ve wondered if there’s even a reason to get an Etha 3 instead of a 2 since the only difference I can see is the quick release bolt. A used 170r might be the best bang for buck right now if the screen is necessary.
@@Hexecutable As someone who hasn't played since 2008, what is a good hopper to pair with the Etha 3? Does it matter? Back when I played electric hoppers were a luxury as were electronic markers. I used to play with a Tippmann A-5 and it's stock hopper, I'm really eyeing the Etha 3.
So I'll add my 2cents here: I bought my Etha 3 in Dec. of 2022. It's a brilliant marker and I have very little, if any, problems with. I wish it had a screen for changing between modes but that's really not that big a deal. I used it every weekend for about 6 months before a teammate let me hold his M3+. The ergos on the M3+ were what convinced me to pick up my own DSR+, being that the grips are the same. My DSR+ is actually a little lighter than the Etha3 and I think that is owed to the all aluminum body. I know my wife was happier with the DSR+ when we went to play a scenario game a few months ago. To sum up, the DSR+ is lighter, feels better in my hand, the shot is a little smoother, and the all aluminum body makes custom anno's much easier than the Etha 3. But that's all just one man's opinion.
When I had my cs2 I tried my buddies etha 3 and was very very impressed. Same shot, same reliability, same everything. Only difference was the slightly less comfortable ergos which could be very subjective, and the lack of a screen. Which usually doesn’t get touched after setting the gun to 10.2. If you are getting into the sport I just recommend picking up a used 170r for 400 to 500. If you are scared to buy used buy an etha 3.
I recently just started buying and restoring some of my all time favorite "classic" markers instead of buying new. If you take your time with the search, you'll have a mid priced marker that shoots great and looks more unique than most anything being produced right now.
As a newcomer to the paintball scene, I get the feeling I got a bit late to the game; all the high-end markers look.... a bit too similar for my taste. Where's the diversity?!
@Kreic there was alot more diversity in design, and customization in general, done in the 2000's. After the success of the Invert Mini and Luxe with their gas-thru grips, all body styles seemed to slowly shift to some version of those designs.
Back before covid blew up prices one of my favorite hobbies was buying broken markers and fixing them. What amazed me during this process is how they ususally werent really broken and how most of these markers that stayed in my collection have been trouble free since. The majority of paintball players in my experiance just dont clean their equipment or have no idea how to read a manual. I litterally just bought an Adrenaline Luxe at a reduced price that came with 2 extra adrenaline shocker asas and was sold as still having issues why.... Because there where wrong orings in the wrong spots on the bolt and in the regulator and the case of those leaking broken asa's they had sliced in half oring in one and the other was missinf the oring all together As for me why do I still buy new markers. Because i like to collect shiney things. Because otherwise i could have stopped with just my first two used markers after I bought a spyder new as my first marker ,my Adrenaline Impulse and my 2001 Black Magic with full CCM internals want to talk about reliabilty that Impulse has turned on every time i put a new battery in it for the last 19 years ive owned it (20 this december). Reliability is for the most part is in the hands of the owner and how they maintain the equipment. Obviously there are some outliers im looking at you Psychoballistics and your horrible chinesium knockoffs.
I did that with an old Brass Eagle Raptor. Bought it on eBay and just spent a lot of time working on it and talking to people online and that thing works like a champ now! It’s fun to bring that out every once in a while
I really needed and appreciated this video. I have an Etha 3 and have the mech frame too but was looking at 180Rs and other "higher" end markers. Seems like really the main difference will be how much I'm paying LOL! Thanks for keeping some dollars in my pocket!
Performance wise yes they will be basically the same but going from the Etha to something like a 170 or 180 gives you more than going from a 170 or 180 to a CS 3. You will get the aluminum body , screen ,color options and that feel of a nice solid gun that doesn't have that plastic fell . If just throwing paint Is your only concern then yea the Etha 3 will hold steady and get the job done for sure . It's a amazing marker .
Great video, I came up playing competitive paintball during the BPS wars. Luckily I was sponsored and was given an OG matrix and an Angel LCD to play with. These days im perfectly happy with my Etha2, its reliable and super low maintenance. I no longer feel the need to spend between 1-2K on a marker in order to not be out gunned (in rec ball these days, tourneys are long behind me haha).
Guns used to have more character too. An expensive Timmy would have nice milling and cool anodization, while the Ion I rocked just had a plastic body. Today guns are all minimal tubes. There are no cool annos or milling to draw your eye to an expensive marker.
My brother had an Ion and I had shockers. My older shocker(the one right after the box shocker,dynasty shocker era) was better than the ion for sure and my newer one was exceptionally better but here is the rub, his ion NEVER malfunctioned. I would have to sit games out ever couple of months or weeks just to work on my gun to get it back to pristine function. He would have no idea what to do if he had to fix it but he never needed to. That was a pretty big selling point for me trying to get new people into the game. I think my last high end marker buy was a dm9. Unfortunately I sold all of my stuff in the military and never got back into it, this gives me a bit of hope that if I wanted to it wouldn’t be as wallet busting as I thought.
Yep. I’ve been saying this for a few years now. Got back into competitive play and picked up a shocker because I couldn’t justify the price of the others. I just want dependability and good ergonomics. I like a screen but I havnt changed a setting since I set it up. IMO, eyes and bore matching barrels have been the biggest upgrades to pb guns. We are/have reaching peak tech for markers.
i use my Etha 3m and Etha 2 more than my 170r by far. i mean, yeah, they're advertisement pieces for the parts i make, but still. they're also super reliable, i don't have to worry about banging them around, and they shoot just fine!
I got etha 2 and 170r too. The only difference I noticed is the 170 is slimmer so you can kind of aim easier. With the etha it takes the first shot to adjust on target
I’ve been playing for 23 years and had a ton of guns.. cockers, timmy, angel, PE, lux and shocker and I still haven’t found that “perfect gun” that does it all. So I try and pick what feels right in the hand because they all shoot pretty well.
Planet Eclipse Ego 05 was $850 CDN taxes included and shot just as good as my Timmy Alias at $1600, other than the unique sound of the EGO. For me it always comes down to Ergos which leads to better handling and confidence on the paintball field. This is the only reason why I preferred my Timmy, The 45 degree grip angle with that nice palm hump shape was per gold.
When I started playing in the 90's a high end marker was just a custom shop modified version of what everyone else was shooting. These days it's "whatever PE thinks they can get away with". The high end isn't going to die quietly.. the companies don't want it to.. Too much money to be made.
ive had hi end cockers forever, always loved the hands on mechanical feel, almost like they had a mind of their own that you needed to understand to be able to use capably, fast forward to when PE dropped the emek, i cant get over the weightlessness, the simplicity, and just overall indestructableness of them.
Rocking the original dsr (fully modded except for the feed neck) and the only markers shot that compares is the LV1.6/2. I found no real additional value in the force, dls, cs2, etc. I would love to not have to use so many 9v batteries though. Have you looked into rechargeable batters lately?
I have been playing paintball on and off for 20 years and I have an Axe2.0 and an A-5 with some modifications to both. I feel that anything beyond $600 has severe diminishing returns. Spend your money how you want but my $500 Axe2.0 with a redline board and FreakXL barrel kit hangs just fine with the CS3s and Luxes of the world for 1/3 the price.
just got a etha 3 instead of a 170r/180r. after weighing options and looking at how much i plan on playing, an etha 3 and a s63 barrel system is all i really need. its not like i constantly change firing modes and settings all the time so why do i need the nicer display? Very similar bolt system and features. i love the way it feels in my hands and its super lightweight. all the stuff i bought to have a full setup and some other stuff was about $1300. so buying an etha made it much more affordable vs almost $1600-$1800. idk... maybe after being in the sport, leaving for awhile, and getting back into it made it easier for me to settle on less. but the market and product changes made it so much easier to settle for the less.
After playing tons of times, against people with way more expensive markers, ( I run an etha 3) all 3 games i played last weekend vs multiple m3+ and my team won every game, its not the marker, its the player.
I just upgraded from my mini gs, and after looking at all guns at all prices ranges, I decided on the etha 3 due to the exact conclusion from this video. Thank you! All my friends have CS3's and TM40's 🤷
Brad I adore you. Have always loved your content and wish we were friends in personal. But you’re literally talking about basic consumerism. All cars get you from point a to point b. I know so many people with high end cars that don’t track them. Trucks that don’t tow. You get the idea. People spend because they can. Because there’s options. Because we’re stupid as humans and keep ourselves poor for the most part. It’s also why the used market is so huge in PB. People come in and people come out. The real question is how do we GROW paintball and get more new players!
I just got smoked in a 3 man tournament by some dudes using empire axe’s. I have a tm40 and my teammates all have PE’s. It comes down to the players ultimately. And occasionally, the weather.
The Axes are a true bang-for-buck marker. I have a good collection of markers, but prefer my OG Axe most often, even over the Syx (which I also love). Empire doesn't get enough love for their very good line-up of pew-pew machines.
I found a used M3+ for $800 and it only had 8,200 shots put through it. Super clean body and grips too. Shout out to CPX Bros Paintball for that awesome deal!
CPX like the CPX paintball field in Illinois, or different people same name? you just triggered mad nostalgia for me bc this is my home field & idk if it's still around, IIRC it was the biggest in the country.
@von... The field is no longer, but it could still be the same owners. When I placed my order I was shocked to see my package depart from Joliet. I emailed CPX Bros. and they run their online store out of their home. So probably the same owners, just no more field.
I remember playing on a speedball course with our woodsball kits (fairly upgraded Tipmann A5s) a few times at a field we weren’t familiar with against locals and doing pretty well.
I haven't played paintball in years so it was super cool to stumble upon this. I still have my old ion, with every decent mod you could throw at it. It would be really interesting to see how things have changed.
This question almost doesn’t matter anymore because the mid range market is gone. Everything in that range is 900 or more. And if you want an axe or etha, you’re still spending 100 bucks to get a decent hopper and a tank that’s worth anything. So many kids come to my field excited they got a mech spider knock off on Amazon and then it breaks after a day. Then their next option is more than twice the price
The only problem with the spyders is nobody oils them so they blow orings. The format is almost unkillable other than maybe loose asas etc which a bit of blue lock tite can fix. So long as you avoid the electronic spyders........those are always iffy.
I'm sending this to my buddy that recently started playing with me. He currently rents or uses one of my autocockers. I told him you don't need to speed a fortune to have fun. Great video.
Bought a brand new Etha 3 at World Cup and played with it this past Sunday. Shot no different than previous high-end guns owned ball on ball accuracy out of the box.
From 2 decades of play....nope. The max I spent was 900 for a slightly used 11 Ego. Never regretted it. The next fav is a tipman a5. Just unbreakable. These days there is no point past the 600 mark. The really weird part is you end up playing pump and that's it.
bro im still rocking my angel fly joy edition. angel IR3, shocker and i have an ion laying around. id never replace them with anything new. coming from early 2000s paintball it just wouldnt feel right. nothing beats going to the local field with an angel fly or the IR3 and seeing people get taken back by it. it actually blows their minds. cant replace that
I traded my geo 4 for a cs3 because I wanted something closer to the feel of a geo 3.5 but I think I will have my cs3 for awhile unless planet eclipse comes out with something even closer to the geo 3.5. Having shot a decent amount of high end markers, they all some what feel the same to me it just comes down to personal preference.
I've got an etha 2 (the first gun I bought when i started playing again) and later purchased a tm40. As far as reliability the etha 2 is on par. I got a tm 40 because it feels better in my hands, the settings are easier to change whenever i want to do that and the toolless features make cleaning it much less of a pain in the ass. Cleaning the etha 2 became pretty annoying for me. The TM40 isn't a must have but I play often and I like the feel and convenience of it. Another way to do the math on it is Get an etha 3... addin the cost of a freak barrel and a couple of inserts. that's your cost. How many times could you go play paintball in terms of paint and entry fees for that money... is it worth it to you? If you play regularly you might find that the answer is it is worth it.
I use high end guns, just from a different era. I have 4 Shoebox Shockers, in various configurations and they are by far the most reliable marker I have ever used. Every few hundred thousand shots maybe replace o-rings in the Maxflo regulator and you are fine. I mean I did replace the board in most of them so that I could have a shot buffer and modern fire modes, but the one I have with an original turbo board still works just fine. If weight and efficiency aren't a concern then new markers are kinda worse, because I can put my tank and foregrip anywhere I want, and have left, right or vertical feed, single or double trigger, 90 degree or 45 frame, new markers ergos are fixed and I hate that. Also, the paint handling seems somehow better than any modern marker I have tried, I assume due to the lack of ball detents and lack of blowback up the feed tube.
I feel ya! I played a lot in HS/ college from ‘03 to 2010. Every thing was so high end luxury. I had an Ion and a new DM07, DM’s were just “sexier” but did basically same things! Now that I got a son might get back into rec ball. As you mentioned, what’s a good marker for that $500 spot ?
I have 2 cs2 markers with matching mechanical frames. I know the cs3 came out but this time I feel the cs3 isnt worth the upgrade, cs2 &cs3 so are sooo close that is doesn’t feel worth it especially when limited editions are like 2k
Status! Usually pros/tournament players go for the high end stuff because its cool! Ferrari or Camry? both can drive the speed limit...ones cooler than the other! is that silly to think in those terms? yes but this has existed forever!
I think it's great! Paintball marker technology is clearly reaching maturity, which means pretty much any mid to high end marker from the past half decade or so can compete against the best markers. When I first started playing, if you could only afford a couple hundred dollars of gear, your options were a Spyder or a Tippman. If you were willing to pay about 5x, you bought yourself a HUGE advantage with an Angel. Now that advantage is maybe a few percent in performance, and mostly just convince and reliability features, which if you're a casual player, isn't too much of a concern.
In my opinion, so far only the Dye DAM and others that are similar is worthwhile for its versatility. It’s basically a DSR with mag and first strike capability AT THE SAME TIME. I’ve played it as a long sniper both mag and hopper. Extremely OP in it’s versatility. Currently have it set up as a snub nose pistol for indoor ranges during winter. I played the invert mini for ten years, which I still have, it’s 100% stock and it was great for $300. I went from the 98 custom, to the phenom, invert mini, and now the Dye DAM. I didn’t want another speedball gun because the mini is still great while yet the DAM performs similarly to the DSR. For the same price as a M3 you get the versatility to use first strikes and hopper fed at the same time. In the long run I think it saves money to have one marker that does it all. I wouldn’t spend 1K on a DSR or 1,600 for the M3 cause they’re all the same speed guns with exception for the screen.
Sp ion was the quietest paintball gun i ever owned. Absolute ninja. As for the prices of marker, i remember in the 05' era, every year the high end companies would re release their guns as new models. It was like car dealerships do. Dye dm 5,6,7, etc.
Excellent video! Most players won't pay full price for their high end markers. Their field or team will get them at cost. That's why there are so many marker reselling businesses - they buy the used high end markers from the tourney guys (who paid cost) and then they flip them (for below brand new price) to the players who aren't on decent teams. This video is great for the newer players or novice players who are just beginning to dip their toes into tourneyball. They are the ones who are tricked into thinking that they'll make the team or "be as good as the pros" if they buy the high end markers (brand new or used). Let's be honest though, the paintball industry is run by uneducated and unprofessional people who are out to scam players.
Bro... i spent like $2k on my DM4... only to have the SP Ion came out... and i was devastated that I could no longer pay to win. Especially after paying to win... haha
man i remember when the ion dropped, also i had a syx 1.5 for a few years, i just bought a very lightly used CS2. the differences in that are even marginal most noteable is the efficiency. But at least i got my buddy hooked selling my syx to a friend for a good deal just brings another player into paintball!
When I was but a wee lad my dad and uncle played at SC Village in the 80s. We were young so we got smashed instantly. Fun fact about that place, look up Lethal Games. My dad and uncle were in that movie as extras getting shot, filmed there. Pretty cool memories.
Machining differences matter too. Took my amp out yesterday to a pretty muddy day, the grips and asa let in quit a bit of mud and moisture, so much so that my air transfer oring in the ASA was covered in and absorbed a fair amount of mud, causing a leak. I’ve never had mud make it’s way into the asa/frame gap on my cs2 🤷🏼♀️
I had an Ion and played with like 4 other ones, those things couldn't shoot full field distance like other guns could. I had to shoot in 4 to 6 ball bursts too so the regulator could shoot all the balls with the same amount of force. The Ion did not keep up unless you got close to who you were shooting.
So would it be better for someone to buy a $850 etha 3 or a etek 5 for $620 with a tank and hopper for a starter in paintball I'm very confused when it comes to them all. Mind you I also get a speed loader with the etha but not tank or anything else
It’s why I shoot an lv2, it’s the only poppet valve marker that’s hoseless, but again is it twice as good as an lv 1.6, no. But the ergonomics are worth it and there’s only one of its kind. No one else is making poppets these days, looking at you guys field one/bob long.
Back in mid/late 2000s my friend sent me a link for a 69$ autococker karnivore and we put a 30$ pump kit on it. I had more money in the stiffi barrel than the gun setup. It was a great time. Saved money on paint and had so much fun when you ran people with Bob longs and angel setups.
Great video as always. To answer your question: Why? Same reason why someone buys a BMW instead of a Camry. Cars both run well, get great MPG, have a touch screen, seat 4 people, have automatic windshield wipers, seat warmers, etc. But do they drive differently? Is the comfort level or sound system THAT much better? Not.. really.. unless you’re an enthusiast and get excited by cars. If you do, then: yes - they are quite different. If you’re not, then: to your point, there’s no point. At the end of the day, there’s always an opportunity cost. If purchasing X prevents or deprives you of Y, are you okay with that?
Newb question, i only recreationally paintball with friends. Ive kitted a red dot laser and a red dot laser site on my gun. Are these attachments not allowed in comp play?
Can’t agree more! I have a fully inceptions designs upgraded emek and recently sold my FF Trix as it doesn’t shoot all that different. High end guns are statement pieces only. The resell market is crazy for all these private label markers, but most people keep their emek unless they’re leaving the sport. My worry is that PE and other manufacturers will try to continue their business model of phasing out parts for planned obsolescence instead of investing in a single platform. My hope is that the industry has major buy-in for the emek line and other “beginner” markers as they shoot as good as anything. Also praying that mechanical markers will take over the tournament scene as they are simpler and better than electro markers in my opinion
I am running a EGO LV1 that I bought new in 2014. Has around 300000 shots on the counter and runs pretty good. In 2014 she was worth the money imo cause the gun delivered some innovation. If I ever need a new gun before I retire from Paintball I think I will go with a used PE gun for around 600 bucks!
I got back into paintball after years of not playing and all I did was re-lube all the o-rings on my gtek and it was ready to go. I looked into getting an upgrade but everything looked like it did the same exact thing with the same bolt design so I just decided to keep the gtek.
Even if I played tournaments I still don’t see a reason why I’d buy anything more than a etha3. Or used, a dsr+ or 180r. The flagship markers just have nothing going for them other than prestige or bragging rights
I think it comes down to where you are in your life. For me I'm 41 and have a Cs3. This will be my last marker. I will use it till I can not play anymore. I call it my retirement Marker.
So I played paintball for the first time in Nov 2023. As a rental I was battling guys who had speedball weapons. As a soldier, I thought they were out shooting me balls per second. So Lol, i said ill be back and came back with a Tippmann Stormer Elite but I used the hopper. Works GREAT. But i felt like I wanted the mechanical gun because there is no electronic weapon in the military that we carry. But i also wanted an electronic to keep the guys with speedball at bey. So I bought the EMF100 and Etha 3. Needless to say I LOVE both, but I find myself using the EMF magfed or Stormer with hopper against rentals. Like most say we want them to want to come back. Plus there was no need to spend $1800 on a CSR when Etha 3 can compete rec play.
Good points. As a mechanic of 25+years I find the same thing happening with tools. Not a terrible difference anymore between the truck and the quality mid range stuff.
Has a rec player that only plays three or four times a year now. I agree 100%, that being said. I've never really been a high end guy, my nicest guns where a wgp autococker, etek3 and a PM 6. I mostly use a KP3 pump and Tippmann 98 these days. I've got 3 98s that I've got maybe 100 bucks tied up in.
I got a white ion somewhere around my house lol. Never used it somehow ended up with from a buddy. They seemed like a decent marker for beginners in speedball.
I still have my original GTek, and I can't see a reason to replace it. It can do literally everything the CS3 can do, is just as soft on paint, and is just as ergonomic for my bigger hands that have been used to macroline for decades. Plus the mechanical slide frame I think feels better and with DW making their valve work with it now, it just checks every box I could care about.
@@gelle00 yup i have an etek 3 thing rips and its my backup i did buy a shocker amp tho but they were on sale for 600 so an absolute steal if they werent on sale id still be rocking the etek 3 as my main marker
Also rocking a Gtek for the same reason. The only reason I see to upgrade is to get something with a hoseless design (which I personally dont care about). Just picked up the mech frame for it as well, feels so nice compared to the electro frame. I'm $375 in total for the marker ($300 for the gun with oled board and $75 for the mech frame) and for the price it's crazy the amount of preformance and versatility you get. I think I'll pick up an LV1 in the future so I can leave the mech frame on permanently and because I've always wanted a high end poppit, aside from that I consider the paintball guns I have now to be end game for me.
My primary gun is my 170R and use an Etha 3 as a backup electronic and an M170R for bad weather or mech only events. Imo, performance and reliability is where it truly counts so as long as that mid range marker is keeping up with high end markers there's really no reason to spend an extra $500+ if thats all you want out of your marker. However, other factors such as ergonomics, e-board, etc are personal preferences that vary from person to person. So if you're picky about that kind of stuff (which I'm not) then that would be the only reason I see to go high end.
I want a newer marker when I started getting back into paintball, but when I realize all I do is play on the local field in semi auto with my buddies I figured to rebuilding my tippmann 98/A5 was a better value and would suit me just fine.
Marker electronics have come a looooongggg way since say 2005. Back then they were borderline afterthoughts in marker design; a few companies were starting to get it right but many were putting out whatever they could as fast as they could since the market was growing and changing so fast.
I have a 180R because I had a 170R and wanted something new that feels similar. Sold my 170R and yeah, it works. I'd justify the jump from etha 3 to 180r just because you can get something that's the color you want but if you don't care about that (or you have aspirations of getting a custom inception upper) then yeah, no reason to get anything higher priced than that.
Imo alot the high end guns these days are used as a flex. Most of them use a copy of the same bolt with minor differences to avoid copyright infrigment. The design of paintball markers has pretty much hit its peak, for better or worse.
When I started paintball, it was mech. My second marker, Tippmann M98/Flatline was $650. That was 99-2000. Then a Classic Desert Fox, 68Automag, lots of Spyders n clones. Still have em all and still use em. I have a couple higher. Couple Ions, ICD Promaster, PE Ego8. But I don't use them. I still rock the M98, 68 Mag and the Fox. When I get a chance to play now it's with rental players and I like showing my museum equipment. I like woods ball and old school. Not high rates of wasted fire and playing pro was ruined by Adam Gardner after watching the Reno '94 footage. The only win that's worth it to cheat is life or death.
The Etha 2 was 300ish dollars. Best marker i ever owned and i owned a CS2 and top end Dye markers because why not... but the ion, proto rail, and markers like that were perfectly fine. All markers are capped in BPS and FPS so as long as it shoots straight and doesn't suck air you can play at any level no problem.
i just bought a LV2 i havent play in over a decade ( im 30 ) i bought because i think its pretty historical you know being macroline free Ego. might get a emek as backup, love the vids man!
as an OG baller who just got back into it, It seemed to be too easy to find used markers that competed at the highest level for under $750. a year ago I got a shocker amp for $800 and the only reason that I spent the extra $100 on it was I loved the anodizing. It took me about 6 months to reeducate myself on markers as I've been out of the loop since 2008.. I have yet to see anything that competes at higher levels with these five to $700 markers, That's worth it. everything over $1,000 seems to be older markers that are just worth it because of time. old Timmy's and Auto cockers that are rare and in great condition deserve these prices but if you want to compete at the highest levels, $350 on eBay will get you where you need to be and that's a beautiful to me.
Im just now coming back into the sport after a 10ish year hiatus, doing my rounds on research to see who has the latest and greatest just to find... Almost nothing has changed at all. Every "high end" feautre available today was available then (minus bluetooth to your phone lol). From what ive seen, the Axe Syx 1.5 @ 499 seems to get you everything youd want (Good shooting marker, oled screen for programming, reliable etc) so much to the point of this video, what would the extra 1k usd be getting you in a "nicer" marker? Id wager not much more preformance. This is nice in a way tho as the sport , which will always be costly due to the nature of it, is at least a bit more accessible if you really want the "high end" features.
One other big increase in reliability in newer markers are no macro/micro line hoses. I use my upgraded emek more then anything and honestly it does not need the upgrades (valve mainly) but I like them.
@@virtual_balboa Originally paintball guns didn't have hoses.........then we went to hoses and were happy because you could diagnose leaks easier and it made guns a lot cheaper. Then we moved away from hoses again and now it's harder to find your leaks and guns are more expensive again lol. Over I prefer no hoses but it never bothered me when we had them.
I myself am all mechanical all day. I see time and time again electronic markers failing on people for x reasons, and they just cost SO much money upfront. Not to mention how much paint you'll use!! Sure the fire power is great, but you BURN through ammo like CRAZY. With my T-15, I only need a bag of 500 rounds on MOST occasions, whereas a speed ball player needs 4x as much ammunition on most occasions to last the whole day! All I need is clever decision making, aim, and skill. 😊
Still rocking my 2011 G6r. I bought it used about 8 years ago for 350 bucks with tank and hopper lol. Haven't found a need to buy anything newer. IT's tiny, lite, fast, dependable has no screen to burn out, and parts are still pretty darn cheap. I haven't seen anything that's an all around better gun honestly. It doesn't win in any single category but it's at the top of every category.
I got an lv1 when they came, was still playing tournaments back then so it made sense. I have never felt a need to upgrade. Got my wife one of the launch luxe x’s when they came out because I got a thing for low serial numbers, but honestly, we both like the lv1 better.
Ive been debating on what to get my oldest for his first. It has been "Do I just get him an EMEK or go with the Etha3M for $100 more". Why? The differences are so minute any more that is that extra $100 getting him something objectively better? Or could I literally spend that $100 on an extra day out at the field. Coming from my early days in 1996 and coveting those few hundred or thousand dollar legitimately high end markers when I was rocking a $98 Walmart Special Spyder Compact. Now my collection consists of what WAS mostly high-end back in the early 2000's, back then there WAS a difference. Today? I could not tell you what the difference between any of the high-ends are. They really do all look the same and functionally, mostly are. I remember going to my local field in about 2008 for a 3man, rocking a Karnivor STO and seeing other teams carrying Ions and being competitive! The Ion really did change what was considered "Tourny level / entry level".
Honestly a lot of new players need to watch this video because when i was first starting out i thought higher priced guns made you “better” or they shot more accurate…2 years later i have 2 tm40’s,170r and a mini gs and honestly they all shoot very similar expect for the air efficiency and ergonomics i play the exact same with my mini gs (360$) then a do with my tm40 (1600$)
170r gang!
@@TheFloridaBikeVlogger amazing gun💯🔥 planet eclipse really shot themselves in the foot with that one
Back when I started was around the time of the etek 2 and in some cases back then yeah it was worth it if you were playing tourneys but after the etek 3 came out that was the end of the point of buying the high-end stuff.
Idk I have a hard time believing the the shoots as straight as a cs3 at range. I shot my ego 11 last weekend mf was going everywhere but straight
The Paintball industry isn't ready for this video
Started off with a Tippmann and some how managed my way up to the NXL in 2007. Returned after about 12 years off to play rec and the mech-10 man stuff. Back in the heyday, yes, the more expensive guns mattered because it was simply more reliable, better on paint and also faster (when speed mattered). Fast forward to today, spool guns are so refined now one could hit the field with a $400 Etha 3 and the only thing limiting your success would be your gun fighting and play making skills. What I see the more expensive guns offer is the maintenance process is more refined, efficiency and consistency improvements (pretty marginal from what I can see) and the guns are sleeker and materials used makes the guns feel better in your hands. Since the early 2000's, as the game evolved from the bushes and trees, fashion also became important factor of the game, which began the rise of colorful and flashy guns. The guns offered today, no matter the price point, are simply awesome.
Back in 05’ I was playing on a team with a CCM Autococker. Bringing back good memories.
I wanted one so bad when I was a kid. I recently bought one online that is not in working order and someday when I’m not busy I want to get that thing going
The rise of the mid price point is half the reason I'm considering getting back into paintball. When I played in the early/mid 2000's, it was exactly like you described. Either you dropped an absurd amount of money, or you were playing a tippman, maybe with some upgrades. I tried to go the automag route which was a mid price point offering and eventually it just stopped working, while my brother's tippmann pressed on. Paintball is too expensive and time consuming for the average person to justify spending even 1k on a base setup, but for $300 to $500, it's enough of an investment where it will make you want to use it, but not feel sick if you end up not playing enough.
This is exactly how I feel. I'm looking to get back into paintball with my GF. For under $1000, I can get 2 nice mechanical marker setups. And if we only play 8-10 times a year I'd feel like it'd be worth it.
I actually had really good luck with my ICD Promaster but yeah, everything else in the mid price was terrible. After I went bob long, I was never going back lol.
A mag that stopped working? This is hard to believe honestly. Mine sat around for 20 years after a lot of use and zero rebuilds. I screwed a tank onto it and the only leaks were the macro line fittings haha. I have rehabbed it now and it's awesome to play with my old gun. I have a couple autocockers that are next on the rehab list. I do agree though, when I was playing in the early 2000s you either put some light mods onto a spyder or tippman or spent all the money on something fancy. There was no middle of the road.
I love the way 2005 is referred to as back in the day.
I stated in 1988 with a 10 shot splat master pistol that took 12g co2 bottle that lasted 20 shots.
Moved to a Diablo pump when they came out then to a Bud Sniper pump, a bud auto cocker and finally an Angel and ultimately quit both tournament and rec playing in the sumer of 2000 .
Seeing these new guns with screens and settings blows me away.
Paintball was getting huge in 03-04. We had four years of glory and then 08 happened and welp.
@@SRV24243I started in the heyday around 2002. By 2010 none of my friends could afford to play and speedball fields started closing in Toronto area
@@SRV24243 Paintball was getting huge by late 90s. I played from 1992 to 2003. I started up again in 2010, and there was maybe half the amount of players.
As someone who owns a LOT of high end markers? No, shockingly. What matters is that what you have works well for you and that Players have *Fun.*
Exactly
💯
Important thing try many markers to choose the best for you.
Exactly why I haven't picked up my electronic markers in years. I have more fun with my Autocockers and Mags. Rocked out my Minimag last weekend.
@@MazzBCDrt automag 4 life 😂
I have the Etha 3 and have also tried out different high-end guns from other players. I told them "yeah it's better" but really I didn't notice much of a difference except the weight and easier programming with the screen.
I love my etha 3 electric 🔥💪🏼 keeps up with all the other guns
I bought a used Etha 2 a few years ago, and the lack of a screen is a little annoying because I have to read the manual every time I want to change something. I’ve wondered if there’s even a reason to get an Etha 3 instead of a 2 since the only difference I can see is the quick release bolt. A used 170r might be the best bang for buck right now if the screen is necessary.
Etha 3 is all you need IMO... at this point every gun shoots relatively the same.
Just paying for air efficiency and a screen with the 1000+ guns.
@@Hexecutable As someone who hasn't played since 2008, what is a good hopper to pair with the Etha 3? Does it matter? Back when I played electric hoppers were a luxury as were electronic markers. I used to play with a Tippmann A-5 and it's stock hopper, I'm really eyeing the Etha 3.
So I'll add my 2cents here: I bought my Etha 3 in Dec. of 2022. It's a brilliant marker and I have very little, if any, problems with. I wish it had a screen for changing between modes but that's really not that big a deal. I used it every weekend for about 6 months before a teammate let me hold his M3+. The ergos on the M3+ were what convinced me to pick up my own DSR+, being that the grips are the same. My DSR+ is actually a little lighter than the Etha3 and I think that is owed to the all aluminum body. I know my wife was happier with the DSR+ when we went to play a scenario game a few months ago. To sum up, the DSR+ is lighter, feels better in my hand, the shot is a little smoother, and the all aluminum body makes custom anno's much easier than the Etha 3.
But that's all just one man's opinion.
Used guns were always my answer. I'd probably prefer a used Geo4 to anything new right now.
Loved your entrance @1:45 btw.
When I had my cs2 I tried my buddies etha 3 and was very very impressed. Same shot, same reliability, same everything. Only difference was the slightly less comfortable ergos which could be very subjective, and the lack of a screen. Which usually doesn’t get touched after setting the gun to 10.2. If you are getting into the sport I just recommend picking up a used 170r for 400 to 500. If you are scared to buy used buy an etha 3.
I recently just started buying and restoring some of my all time favorite "classic" markers instead of buying new. If you take your time with the search, you'll have a mid priced marker that shoots great and looks more unique than most anything being produced right now.
As a newcomer to the paintball scene, I get the feeling I got a bit late to the game; all the high-end markers look.... a bit too similar for my taste. Where's the diversity?!
@Kreic there was alot more diversity in design, and customization in general, done in the 2000's. After the success of the Invert Mini and Luxe with their gas-thru grips, all body styles seemed to slowly shift to some version of those designs.
I need to restore my shoebox Shocker one of these days...
Back before covid blew up prices one of my favorite hobbies was buying broken markers and fixing them. What amazed me during this process is how they ususally werent really broken and how most of these markers that stayed in my collection have been trouble free since.
The majority of paintball players in my experiance just dont clean their equipment or have no idea how to read a manual. I litterally just bought an Adrenaline Luxe at a reduced price that came with 2 extra adrenaline shocker asas and was sold as still having issues why.... Because there where wrong orings in the wrong spots on the bolt and in the regulator and the case of those leaking broken asa's they had sliced in half oring in one and the other was missinf the oring all together
As for me why do I still buy new markers. Because i like to collect shiney things. Because otherwise i could have stopped with just my first two used markers after I bought a spyder new as my first marker ,my Adrenaline Impulse and my 2001 Black Magic with full CCM internals want to talk about reliabilty that Impulse has turned on every time i put a new battery in it for the last 19 years ive owned it (20 this december). Reliability is for the most part is in the hands of the owner and how they maintain the equipment. Obviously there are some outliers im looking at you Psychoballistics and your horrible chinesium knockoffs.
Where did you buy guns from any one source?
I did that with an old Brass Eagle Raptor. Bought it on eBay and just spent a lot of time working on it and talking to people online and that thing works like a champ now! It’s fun to bring that out every once in a while
I really needed and appreciated this video. I have an Etha 3 and have the mech frame too but was looking at 180Rs and other "higher" end markers. Seems like really the main difference will be how much I'm paying LOL! Thanks for keeping some dollars in my pocket!
Performance wise yes they will be basically the same but going from the Etha to something like a 170 or 180 gives you more than going from a 170 or 180 to a CS 3. You will get the aluminum body , screen ,color options and that feel of a nice solid gun that doesn't have that plastic fell . If just throwing paint Is your only concern then yea the Etha 3 will hold steady and get the job done for sure . It's a amazing marker .
always stoked when a new PBRML video drops!
I sold my Luxe and have a Dangerous power G5 shoots great and not expensive .
Great video, I came up playing competitive paintball during the BPS wars. Luckily I was sponsored and was given an OG matrix and an Angel LCD to play with. These days im perfectly happy with my Etha2, its reliable and super low maintenance. I no longer feel the need to spend between 1-2K on a marker in order to not be out gunned (in rec ball these days, tourneys are long behind me haha).
Guns used to have more character too. An expensive Timmy would have nice milling and cool anodization, while the Ion I rocked just had a plastic body. Today guns are all minimal tubes. There are no cool annos or milling to draw your eye to an expensive marker.
My brother had an Ion and I had shockers. My older shocker(the one right after the box shocker,dynasty shocker era) was better than the ion for sure and my newer one was exceptionally better but here is the rub, his ion NEVER malfunctioned. I would have to sit games out ever couple of months or weeks just to work on my gun to get it back to pristine function. He would have no idea what to do if he had to fix it but he never needed to. That was a pretty big selling point for me trying to get new people into the game.
I think my last high end marker buy was a dm9. Unfortunately I sold all of my stuff in the military and never got back into it, this gives me a bit of hope that if I wanted to it wouldn’t be as wallet busting as I thought.
It's also good to note that buying older high ends can be just as cost efficient, if not more efficient, than buying a new midrange marker.
Yep. I’ve been saying this for a few years now. Got back into competitive play and picked up a shocker because I couldn’t justify the price of the others. I just want dependability and good ergonomics. I like a screen but I havnt changed a setting since I set it up. IMO, eyes and bore matching barrels have been the biggest upgrades to pb guns. We are/have reaching peak tech for markers.
i use my Etha 3m and Etha 2 more than my 170r by far. i mean, yeah, they're advertisement pieces for the parts i make, but still. they're also super reliable, i don't have to worry about banging them around, and they shoot just fine!
I got etha 2 and 170r too. The only difference I noticed is the 170 is slimmer so you can kind of aim easier. With the etha it takes the first shot to adjust on target
I’ve been playing for 23 years and had a ton of guns.. cockers, timmy, angel, PE, lux and shocker and I still haven’t found that “perfect gun” that does it all. So I try and pick what feels right in the hand because they all shoot pretty well.
Planet Eclipse Ego 05 was $850 CDN taxes included and shot just as good as my Timmy Alias at $1600, other than the unique sound of the EGO. For me it always comes down to Ergos which leads to better handling and confidence on the paintball field. This is the only reason why I preferred my Timmy, The 45 degree grip angle with that nice palm hump shape was per gold.
Geez hell of a price difference, miss my Timmy days…
high end might be coming ... to an end. the rate of diminishing returns is about to hit paintball extremely hard in the next few years.
When I started playing in the 90's a high end marker was just a custom shop modified version of what everyone else was shooting.
These days it's "whatever PE thinks they can get away with".
The high end isn't going to die quietly.. the companies don't want it to.. Too much money to be made.
ive had hi end cockers forever, always loved the hands on mechanical feel, almost like they had a mind of their own that you needed to understand to be able to use capably, fast forward to when PE dropped the emek, i cant get over the weightlessness, the simplicity, and just overall indestructableness of them.
Still rocking a DM5 or DM6
Rocking the original dsr (fully modded except for the feed neck) and the only markers shot that compares is the LV1.6/2. I found no real additional value in the force, dls, cs2, etc. I would love to not have to use so many 9v batteries though.
Have you looked into rechargeable batters lately?
I have been playing paintball on and off for 20 years and I have an Axe2.0 and an A-5 with some modifications to both. I feel that anything beyond $600 has severe diminishing returns. Spend your money how you want but my $500 Axe2.0 with a redline board and FreakXL barrel kit hangs just fine with the CS3s and Luxes of the world for 1/3 the price.
just got a etha 3 instead of a 170r/180r. after weighing options and looking at how much i plan on playing, an etha 3 and a s63 barrel system is all i really need. its not like i constantly change firing modes and settings all the time so why do i need the nicer display? Very similar bolt system and features. i love the way it feels in my hands and its super lightweight. all the stuff i bought to have a full setup and some other stuff was about $1300. so buying an etha made it much more affordable vs almost $1600-$1800. idk... maybe after being in the sport, leaving for awhile, and getting back into it made it easier for me to settle on less. but the market and product changes made it so much easier to settle for the less.
After playing tons of times, against people with way more expensive markers, ( I run an etha 3) all 3 games i played last weekend vs multiple m3+ and my team won every game, its not the marker, its the player.
I just upgraded from my mini gs, and after looking at all guns at all prices ranges, I decided on the etha 3 due to the exact conclusion from this video. Thank you!
All my friends have CS3's and TM40's 🤷
Brad I adore you. Have always loved your content and wish we were friends in personal. But you’re literally talking about basic consumerism.
All cars get you from point a to point b. I know so many people with high end cars that don’t track them. Trucks that don’t tow. You get the idea.
People spend because they can. Because there’s options. Because we’re stupid as humans and keep ourselves poor for the most part.
It’s also why the used market is so huge in PB. People come in and people come out.
The real question is how do we GROW paintball and get more new players!
Wow what a throwback. The Ion was my dream gun when I was a kid.
I just got smoked in a 3 man tournament by some dudes using empire axe’s. I have a tm40 and my teammates all have PE’s. It comes down to the players ultimately. And occasionally, the weather.
The Axes are a true bang-for-buck marker. I have a good collection of markers, but prefer my OG Axe most often, even over the Syx (which I also love). Empire doesn't get enough love for their very good line-up of pew-pew machines.
@@weekendwarriorsports4406 yeah they hurt too lol. Good reality check for me.
I found a used M3+ for $800 and it only had 8,200 shots put through it. Super clean body and grips too. Shout out to CPX Bros Paintball for that awesome deal!
Nice work!
CPX like the CPX paintball field in Illinois, or different people same name? you just triggered mad nostalgia for me bc this is my home field & idk if it's still around, IIRC it was the biggest in the country.
@von... The field is no longer, but it could still be the same owners. When I placed my order I was shocked to see my package depart from Joliet. I emailed CPX Bros. and they run their online store out of their home. So probably the same owners, just no more field.
I remember playing on a speedball course with our woodsball kits (fairly upgraded Tipmann A5s) a few times at a field we weren’t familiar with against locals and doing pretty well.
🔥🔵🔥 DM5 MENTIONED 🔥🔵🔥
I haven't played paintball in years so it was super cool to stumble upon this. I still have my old ion, with every decent mod you could throw at it. It would be really interesting to see how things have changed.
I had the dynasty ION and it was my works horse for everything
This question almost doesn’t matter anymore because the mid range market is gone. Everything in that range is 900 or more. And if you want an axe or etha, you’re still spending 100 bucks to get a decent hopper and a tank that’s worth anything. So many kids come to my field excited they got a mech spider knock off on Amazon and then it breaks after a day. Then their next option is more than twice the price
The only problem with the spyders is nobody oils them so they blow orings. The format is almost unkillable other than maybe loose asas etc which a bit of blue lock tite can fix. So long as you avoid the electronic spyders........those are always iffy.
I'm sending this to my buddy that recently started playing with me. He currently rents or uses one of my autocockers. I told him you don't need to speed a fortune to have fun. Great video.
Bought a brand new Etha 3 at World Cup and played with it this past Sunday. Shot no different than previous high-end guns owned ball on ball accuracy out of the box.
From 2 decades of play....nope. The max I spent was 900 for a slightly used 11 Ego. Never regretted it. The next fav is a tipman a5. Just unbreakable. These days there is no point past the 600 mark. The really weird part is you end up playing pump and that's it.
bro im still rocking my angel fly joy edition. angel IR3, shocker and i have an ion laying around. id never replace them with anything new. coming from early 2000s paintball it just wouldnt feel right.
nothing beats going to the local field with an angel fly or the IR3 and seeing people get taken back by it. it actually blows their minds. cant replace that
I traded my geo 4 for a cs3 because I wanted something closer to the feel of a geo 3.5 but I think I will have my cs3 for awhile unless planet eclipse comes out with something even closer to the geo 3.5. Having shot a decent amount of high end markers, they all some what feel the same to me it just comes down to personal preference.
I still rock alot of marker from the 2000s they all are useally pretty cheap now and still shoot great. =]
This is why I buy all my guns used. Its hard to justify spending that much on a new high-end gun.
If you know what you are looking for, there are some great deals out there.
we perfected guns decades ago... so it actually a shame earlier markers were not better
I've got an etha 2 (the first gun I bought when i started playing again) and later purchased a tm40. As far as reliability the etha 2 is on par. I got a tm 40 because it feels better in my hands, the settings are easier to change whenever i want to do that and the toolless features make cleaning it much less of a pain in the ass. Cleaning the etha 2 became pretty annoying for me. The TM40 isn't a must have but I play often and I like the feel and convenience of it.
Another way to do the math on it is Get an etha 3... addin the cost of a freak barrel and a couple of inserts. that's your cost. How many times could you go play paintball in terms of paint and entry fees for that money... is it worth it to you? If you play regularly you might find that the answer is it is worth it.
I use high end guns, just from a different era. I have 4 Shoebox Shockers, in various configurations and they are by far the most reliable marker I have ever used. Every few hundred thousand shots maybe replace o-rings in the Maxflo regulator and you are fine. I mean I did replace the board in most of them so that I could have a shot buffer and modern fire modes, but the one I have with an original turbo board still works just fine. If weight and efficiency aren't a concern then new markers are kinda worse, because I can put my tank and foregrip anywhere I want, and have left, right or vertical feed, single or double trigger, 90 degree or 45 frame, new markers ergos are fixed and I hate that.
Also, the paint handling seems somehow better than any modern marker I have tried, I assume due to the lack of ball detents and lack of blowback up the feed tube.
I feel ya! I played a lot in HS/ college from ‘03 to 2010. Every thing was so high end luxury. I had an Ion and a new DM07, DM’s were just “sexier” but did basically same things!
Now that I got a son might get back into rec ball. As you mentioned, what’s a good marker for that $500 spot ?
I have 2 cs2 markers with matching mechanical frames. I know the cs3 came out but this time I feel the cs3 isnt worth the upgrade, cs2 &cs3 so are sooo close that is doesn’t feel worth it especially when limited editions are like 2k
Status! Usually pros/tournament players go for the high end stuff because its cool! Ferrari or Camry? both can drive the speed limit...ones cooler than the other! is that silly to think in those terms? yes but this has existed forever!
Pretty much
I think it's great! Paintball marker technology is clearly reaching maturity, which means pretty much any mid to high end marker from the past half decade or so can compete against the best markers. When I first started playing, if you could only afford a couple hundred dollars of gear, your options were a Spyder or a Tippman. If you were willing to pay about 5x, you bought yourself a HUGE advantage with an Angel. Now that advantage is maybe a few percent in performance, and mostly just convince and reliability features, which if you're a casual player, isn't too much of a concern.
In my opinion, so far only the Dye DAM and others that are similar is worthwhile for its versatility. It’s basically a DSR with mag and first strike capability AT THE SAME TIME. I’ve played it as a long sniper both mag and hopper. Extremely OP in it’s versatility. Currently have it set up as a snub nose pistol for indoor ranges during winter. I played the invert mini for ten years, which I still have, it’s 100% stock and it was great for $300. I went from the 98 custom, to the phenom, invert mini, and now the Dye DAM. I didn’t want another speedball gun because the mini is still great while yet the DAM performs similarly to the DSR. For the same price as a M3 you get the versatility to use first strikes and hopper fed at the same time. In the long run I think it saves money to have one marker that does it all. I wouldn’t spend 1K on a DSR or 1,600 for the M3 cause they’re all the same speed guns with exception for the screen.
Sp ion was the quietest paintball gun i ever owned. Absolute ninja. As for the prices of marker, i remember in the 05' era, every year the high end companies would re release their guns as new models. It was like car dealerships do. Dye dm 5,6,7, etc.
Excellent video!
Most players won't pay full price for their high end markers. Their field or team will get them at cost. That's why there are so many marker reselling businesses - they buy the used high end markers from the tourney guys (who paid cost) and then they flip them (for below brand new price) to the players who aren't on decent teams.
This video is great for the newer players or novice players who are just beginning to dip their toes into tourneyball. They are the ones who are tricked into thinking that they'll make the team or "be as good as the pros" if they buy the high end markers (brand new or used).
Let's be honest though, the paintball industry is run by uneducated and unprofessional people who are out to scam players.
Bro... i spent like $2k on my DM4... only to have the SP Ion came out... and i was devastated that I could no longer pay to win. Especially after paying to win... haha
😂
man i remember when the ion dropped, also i had a syx 1.5 for a few years, i just bought a very lightly used CS2. the differences in that are even marginal most noteable is the efficiency. But at least i got my buddy hooked selling my syx to a friend for a good deal just brings another player into paintball!
I own a high end gun and it's worth every penny. Air gun designs: Automag 😅.
I had one back in the day and loved it. Looking to buy another one just for fun.
Rt automags are the shit to this day
When I was but a wee lad my dad and uncle played at SC Village in the 80s. We were young so we got smashed instantly. Fun fact about that place, look up Lethal Games. My dad and uncle were in that movie as extras getting shot, filmed there. Pretty cool memories.
Quality has been the biggest change, as someone who started in 03. I bought a cs2 in 2017 and its had zero issues since day one.
Machining differences matter too. Took my amp out yesterday to a pretty muddy day, the grips and asa let in quit a bit of mud and moisture, so much so that my air transfer oring in the ASA was covered in and absorbed a fair amount of mud, causing a leak. I’ve never had mud make it’s way into the asa/frame gap on my cs2 🤷🏼♀️
There for sure a difference in brands, no doubt PE still on top.
I had an Ion and played with like 4 other ones, those things couldn't shoot full field distance like other guns could. I had to shoot in 4 to 6 ball bursts too so the regulator could shoot all the balls with the same amount of force. The Ion did not keep up unless you got close to who you were shooting.
So would it be better for someone to buy a $850 etha 3 or a etek 5 for $620 with a tank and hopper for a starter in paintball I'm very confused when it comes to them all. Mind you I also get a speed loader with the etha but not tank or anything else
Everyone wants the new shiny toy… I’m perfectly happy with my Shocker Amp. It shoots just as good as any $2000 gun
I've been looking at these real hard getting back into the sport they seem amazing
It’s why I shoot an lv2, it’s the only poppet valve marker that’s hoseless, but again is it twice as good as an lv 1.6, no. But the ergonomics are worth it and there’s only one of its kind. No one else is making poppets these days, looking at you guys field one/bob long.
Back in mid/late 2000s my friend sent me a link for a 69$ autococker karnivore and we put a 30$ pump kit on it. I had more money in the stiffi barrel than the gun setup. It was a great time. Saved money on paint and had so much fun when you ran people with Bob longs and angel setups.
Great video as always.
To answer your question: Why? Same reason why someone buys a BMW instead of a Camry.
Cars both run well, get great MPG, have a touch screen, seat 4 people, have automatic windshield wipers, seat warmers, etc.
But do they drive differently? Is the comfort level or sound system THAT much better? Not.. really.. unless you’re an enthusiast and get excited by cars. If you do, then: yes - they are quite different. If you’re not, then: to your point, there’s no point.
At the end of the day, there’s always an opportunity cost. If purchasing X prevents or deprives you of Y, are you okay with that?
Newb question, i only recreationally paintball with friends. Ive kitted a red dot laser and a red dot laser site on my gun. Are these attachments not allowed in comp play?
Can’t agree more! I have a fully inceptions designs upgraded emek and recently sold my FF Trix as it doesn’t shoot all that different. High end guns are statement pieces only. The resell market is crazy for all these private label markers, but most people keep their emek unless they’re leaving the sport.
My worry is that PE and other manufacturers will try to continue their business model of phasing out parts for planned obsolescence instead of investing in a single platform. My hope is that the industry has major buy-in for the emek line and other “beginner” markers as they shoot as good as anything.
Also praying that mechanical markers will take over the tournament scene as they are simpler and better than electro markers in my opinion
I am running a EGO LV1 that I bought new in 2014. Has around 300000 shots on the counter and runs pretty good. In 2014 she was worth the money imo cause the gun delivered some innovation. If I ever need a new gun before I retire from Paintball I think I will go with a used PE gun for around 600 bucks!
I got back into paintball after years of not playing and all I did was re-lube all the o-rings on my gtek and it was ready to go. I looked into getting an upgrade but everything looked like it did the same exact thing with the same bolt design so I just decided to keep the gtek.
Pretty much. 👍
Even if I played tournaments I still don’t see a reason why I’d buy anything more than a etha3. Or used, a dsr+ or 180r. The flagship markers just have nothing going for them other than prestige or bragging rights
I think it comes down to where you are in your life. For me I'm 41 and have a Cs3. This will be my last marker. I will use it till I can not play anymore. I call it my retirement Marker.
I agree! Just bought a 180 as my retirement marker! Lol Know it will last for years to come.
Retirement you’re 41 not 91 smh
So I played paintball for the first time in Nov 2023. As a rental I was battling guys who had speedball weapons. As a soldier, I thought they were out shooting me balls per second. So Lol, i said ill be back and came back with a Tippmann Stormer Elite but I used the hopper. Works GREAT. But i felt like I wanted the mechanical gun because there is no electronic weapon in the military that we carry. But i also wanted an electronic to keep the guys with speedball at bey. So I bought the EMF100 and Etha 3. Needless to say I LOVE both, but I find myself using the EMF magfed or Stormer with hopper against rentals. Like most say we want them to want to come back. Plus there was no need to spend $1800 on a CSR when Etha 3 can compete rec play.
Good points. As a mechanic of 25+years I find the same thing happening with tools. Not a terrible difference anymore between the truck and the quality mid range stuff.
i was new to the sport last year and realized this immediately. probably easier for someone to see this whos new.
Has a rec player that only plays three or four times a year now. I agree 100%, that being said. I've never really been a high end guy, my nicest guns where a wgp autococker, etek3 and a PM 6. I mostly use a KP3 pump and Tippmann 98 these days. I've got 3 98s that I've got maybe 100 bucks tied up in.
Kp3 with the auto trigger is so much fun!
I got a white ion somewhere around my house lol. Never used it somehow ended up with from a buddy. They seemed like a decent marker for beginners in speedball.
I still have my original GTek, and I can't see a reason to replace it. It can do literally everything the CS3 can do, is just as soft on paint, and is just as ergonomic for my bigger hands that have been used to macroline for decades. Plus the mechanical slide frame I think feels better and with DW making their valve work with it now, it just checks every box I could care about.
Dude I am in the same boat with the Etek. Thing still rips and it like 8 years old. I just don't see the point in shelling out more money.
@@gelle00 yup i have an etek 3 thing rips and its my backup i did buy a shocker amp tho but they were on sale for 600 so an absolute steal if they werent on sale id still be rocking the etek 3 as my main marker
Also rocking a Gtek for the same reason. The only reason I see to upgrade is to get something with a hoseless design (which I personally dont care about). Just picked up the mech frame for it as well, feels so nice compared to the electro frame. I'm $375 in total for the marker ($300 for the gun with oled board and $75 for the mech frame) and for the price it's crazy the amount of preformance and versatility you get. I think I'll pick up an LV1 in the future so I can leave the mech frame on permanently and because I've always wanted a high end poppit, aside from that I consider the paintball guns I have now to be end game for me.
My primary gun is my 170R and use an Etha 3 as a backup electronic and an M170R for bad weather or mech only events. Imo, performance and reliability is where it truly counts so as long as that mid range marker is keeping up with high end markers there's really no reason to spend an extra $500+ if thats all you want out of your marker. However, other factors such as ergonomics, e-board, etc are personal preferences that vary from person to person. So if you're picky about that kind of stuff (which I'm not) then that would be the only reason I see to go high end.
I want a newer marker when I started getting back into paintball, but when I realize all I do is play on the local field in semi auto with my buddies I figured to rebuilding my tippmann 98/A5 was a better value and would suit me just fine.
Marker electronics have come a looooongggg way since say 2005. Back then they were borderline afterthoughts in marker design; a few companies were starting to get it right but many were putting out whatever they could as fast as they could since the market was growing and changing so fast.
For sure, I assume thats why Virtue and Tadao boards were huge back in the day
I have a 180R because I had a 170R and wanted something new that feels similar. Sold my 170R and yeah, it works. I'd justify the jump from etha 3 to 180r just because you can get something that's the color you want but if you don't care about that (or you have aspirations of getting a custom inception upper) then yeah, no reason to get anything higher priced than that.
Imo alot the high end guns these days are used as a flex. Most of them use a copy of the same bolt with minor differences to avoid copyright infrigment. The design of paintball markers has pretty much hit its peak, for better or worse.
i ought a mini gs when they first came out and you worked on it it just didnt work then like 3 years later i threw a tank on it and it worked
When I started paintball, it was mech. My second marker, Tippmann M98/Flatline was $650. That was 99-2000. Then a Classic Desert Fox, 68Automag, lots of Spyders n clones. Still have em all and still use em. I have a couple higher. Couple Ions, ICD Promaster, PE Ego8. But I don't use them. I still rock the M98, 68 Mag and the Fox. When I get a chance to play now it's with rental players and I like showing my museum equipment. I like woods ball and old school. Not high rates of wasted fire and playing pro was ruined by Adam Gardner after watching the Reno '94 footage. The only win that's worth it to cheat is life or death.
I still play with my original Gtek and Pinocchio works fine.
Whoop whoop Pinocchio!
The Etha 2 was 300ish dollars. Best marker i ever owned and i owned a CS2 and top end Dye markers because why not... but the ion, proto rail, and markers like that were perfectly fine. All markers are capped in BPS and FPS so as long as it shoots straight and doesn't suck air you can play at any level no problem.
i just bought a LV2 i havent play in over a decade ( im 30 ) i bought because i think its pretty historical you know being macroline free Ego. might get a emek as backup, love the vids man!
as an OG baller who just got back into it, It seemed to be too easy to find used markers that competed at the highest level for under $750. a year ago I got a shocker amp for $800 and the only reason that I spent the extra $100 on it was I loved the anodizing. It took me about 6 months to reeducate myself on markers as I've been out of the loop since 2008.. I have yet to see anything that competes at higher levels with these five to $700 markers, That's worth it.
everything over $1,000 seems to be older markers that are just worth it because of time. old Timmy's and Auto cockers that are rare and in great condition deserve these prices but if you want to compete at the highest levels, $350 on eBay will get you where you need to be and that's a beautiful to me.
Im just now coming back into the sport after a 10ish year hiatus, doing my rounds on research to see who has the latest and greatest just to find... Almost nothing has changed at all. Every "high end" feautre available today was available then (minus bluetooth to your phone lol). From what ive seen, the Axe Syx 1.5 @ 499 seems to get you everything youd want (Good shooting marker, oled screen for programming, reliable etc) so much to the point of this video, what would the extra 1k usd be getting you in a "nicer" marker? Id wager not much more preformance. This is nice in a way tho as the sport , which will always be costly due to the nature of it, is at least a bit more accessible if you really want the "high end" features.
One other big increase in reliability in newer markers are no macro/micro line hoses. I use my upgraded emek more then anything and honestly it does not need the upgrades (valve mainly) but I like them.
Even if guns still had hoses, totally fine. No problem with them.
@@virtual_balboa Originally paintball guns didn't have hoses.........then we went to hoses and were happy because you could diagnose leaks easier and it made guns a lot cheaper. Then we moved away from hoses again and now it's harder to find your leaks and guns are more expensive again lol. Over I prefer no hoses but it never bothered me when we had them.
I myself am all mechanical all day. I see time and time again electronic markers failing on people for x reasons, and they just cost SO much money upfront. Not to mention how much paint you'll use!! Sure the fire power is great, but you BURN through ammo like CRAZY. With my T-15, I only need a bag of 500 rounds on MOST occasions, whereas a speed ball player needs 4x as much ammunition on most occasions to last the whole day! All I need is clever decision making, aim, and skill. 😊
something that i also find interesting is that most high end paintball guns especially twister and project guns, cost more than high end firearms 💀
Still rocking my 2011 G6r. I bought it used about 8 years ago for 350 bucks with tank and hopper lol. Haven't found a need to buy anything newer. IT's tiny, lite, fast, dependable has no screen to burn out, and parts are still pretty darn cheap. I haven't seen anything that's an all around better gun honestly. It doesn't win in any single category but it's at the top of every category.
I got an lv1 when they came, was still playing tournaments back then so it made sense. I have never felt a need to upgrade. Got my wife one of the launch luxe x’s when they came out because I got a thing for low serial numbers, but honestly, we both like the lv1 better.
i think so long as you get a good barrel kit u can stick them on any old gun and they shoot like high enders
Ive been debating on what to get my oldest for his first. It has been "Do I just get him an EMEK or go with the Etha3M for $100 more". Why? The differences are so minute any more that is that extra $100 getting him something objectively better? Or could I literally spend that $100 on an extra day out at the field. Coming from my early days in 1996 and coveting those few hundred or thousand dollar legitimately high end markers when I was rocking a $98 Walmart Special Spyder Compact. Now my collection consists of what WAS mostly high-end back in the early 2000's, back then there WAS a difference. Today? I could not tell you what the difference between any of the high-ends are. They really do all look the same and functionally, mostly are. I remember going to my local field in about 2008 for a 3man, rocking a Karnivor STO and seeing other teams carrying Ions and being competitive! The Ion really did change what was considered "Tourny level / entry level".