Almost all my deadlifting I've ever trained has been without straps. However for the last month I've been using straps as I have strongman comp coming up soon. Something I've experienced is that the straps help in ways that I really didn't expect - they do far more than just take care of grip. Straps allow me to get into a better start position - I can pull myself into the bar more effectively because I'm attached to it. I have a fat gut, and using straps I can wear my belt a bit lower and get my feet a bit narrower, both of which are more advantageous for me. Doing this also means that as my hips come down, my gut presses onto my quads and levers the weight off the ground nicely. I can break the weight off the floor just by setting up like this. Even better is that by using figure 8s the bar sits about 3 inches lower down in my finger tips which makes my lockout significantly easier. I'm not really into the whole PL vs Strongman deadlifting debate, I don't really care tbh, this is just my own experience of the difference in deadlifting styles.
I do have a bone to pick with figure 8s. I mean, I use the hell out of them, but the bar hanging by the fingers gives more advantage than a suit ever could. Curious, why can't you setup that way without straps? If your grip is strong enough to hold the weight, you should be able to do all those things with or without straps.
@@AlexanderBromley he forgets to wipe the cheese doodle residue off them between sets. Makes it slippery as fuck. Ive done that mistake thousands of times, its a bitch.
@@AlexanderBromley Agreed re figure 8s but if its within the rules and gives such an advantage then of course makes sense to use them. Would be silly not to if others are. Re setting up like this without straps, going raw I use mixed grip and I have stumpy fat hands so I have to really twist my hands under the bar to hold on. Also with mixed grip I have to grip the bar wider due to lack of shoulder and wrist rotation mobility. Add these together and my starting position suffers a lot, I end up much more bent over than with using straps.
@MEAT BASED VEGAN Yea if you can use straps in comp then 100% better way to go. I've mostly trained for powerlifting in the past so stuck to mixed grip. Never got comfortable with hook grip.
@@AlexanderBromley idk how people let the bar hang in their fingers, I can't keep my back tight if I do that. The straps usually slide off too, it's not secure at all for me.
As a powerlifter I really wish it didn’t have sumo. It’s always been apart of it, and PL has been around roughly 3 decades before I’ve been alive, but it can really bastardize the lift. Just like the maxed out grip with internally rotated wrist 2in ROM bench press by a 5’5 dude. Just cause it complies with the rules doesn’t mean it isn’t significantly less impressive
To be fair to Dan Bell in particular, 410 kg/904 lbs is nowhere near his max; last year he pulled that weight so fast it looked like he was going to clean it. I have zero doubts that with straps he was capable of at least 430-440kg on that day. I agree with the rest of the video though. One thing I will say is that no matter how much powerlifters "neglect" the deadlift compared to strongmen, the reverse is even more true with squats - I just watched "World's Strongest Man" Tom Stoltman struggle with UNDER 700 LBS in WRAPS! No way could any SHW set a record total in powerlifting with a 700 lbs squat, "weak" deadlift or not.
I'm sure some of the top PL guys give up weight going without straps. The squat point is valid; plenty of guys at the top w/ sub par squats. HOWEVER, most of the champs hang. Thor had 1k+ in contest (Martins beat him easily in a squat for reps), Hall has a video of 760 for 8 that looked like he had 12+; Shaw and Z were usually on his level in squat events. Hard to compare because strongman usually features weird implements for squatting where deadlifts often have a barbell.
@@AlexanderBromley I think if we talk about squatting we need to include weightlifters aswell. I think its under the radar because the big guys dont push there squat after a certain treshold. On the other hand there are some smaller male and female lifters who broke PL records in an average friday afternoon session after snatch/C&J
Tom's never been good at squats, so that's a pretty poor example. There's barely any squatting in strongman. Thor trained for 6 weeks for his powerlifting comp and did 1014lbs (or 1016?).
You probably cherry picked the session where he felt weka all around. He is not one of the best in squats among strongmen but he will definately do closer to 900lbs on the Arnolds.
The amount of people that is officialy in the thousand pound club goes to 16 guys, of them only two (Andy and Benedikt) did it as powerlifters who by they way also crossed to strongman, of wich Andy did not as good in the strongman deadlift and the other did his heaviest deadlift as strongman, the other 14 guys are mainly strongman and it starting to feel like a thousand pound club is not as exclusive anymore. Unofficialy only 6 guys have lifted over 470 KG, all strongman, only 3 officialy (4 if you count Pehiman no lock lift), and ofc only two guys have lifted 500Kg (+). I think is fair to say Strongman dominates the deadlift and sumo is a different story.
Few occasions the deadlift got huge publicity. Raw deadlift from Benedikt and Eddie Hall 500kg. Thor’s deadlift was featured on ESPN main channel which is pretty big deal
Powerlifting is a laughing stock now with 1 inch bench press and 3 inch sumo deadlifts . 18 inch hummer tire deadlifts has more ROM than these sumo pullers
I think strongman does own deadlifting for exactly as you said, it cares more so therefore pays more which attracts better athletes. I do think Jamal Browner could be a middle pack strongman deadlifter (no other events obviously). He almost locked out 430kg (948lbs) conventional recently. That's by no means a top strongman deadlift, but I think you could argue without a weight class, suit and straps he might do a little better, maybe 1000lbs? But by no means winning any deadlift comps. And I think he'd be the only person who could even hang with the pack in a strongman deadlift comp, and only then if it's done from a regular height. Anything higher he wouldn't hang.
He locked it out last year with strap, and that would have won him the event at the touché invitational against guys like Caron, Pritchett, and Shaw. Edit: he also trains conventional one or two months out of the year.
@@apo75018 he cuts to 110kg. If did want to hit 105 it would hinder his performance for sure. Also, no offense to 105kg strongman, but no one's really cares about it. Strongman I'd a niche sport, and being into 105 strongman is like a niche within a niche
I've done both disciplines....and to be honest if you want to be strong strongman is much more relevant and has more carryover. I agree with the video.
@@AlexanderBromley if my life depends on nominating a champion to represent me from one of either strongman or powerlifting, I’m sure as fuck not putting up an IPF bro…even John Haack does strongman meets after all :D This was great, more like it please :)
10:10 that is true because they always put the deadlift last where I love that Arnold puts the deadlift first. It's what the people want to watch the most to determine who is the strongest, as well as everybody will be more fresh and ready
This entire video is filled with your subjective opinions, which is fine. Just don't act like you're spitting facts. You're spitting opinions. Like saying deadlift isn't about grip, so using straps is fine. That's your opinion. Hitching and ramping are fine. That's your opinion. Wearing a DL suit is fine. That's your opinion. Using a non-standard bar and plates is fine. That's your opinion. I don't think it's about which one is better. They're different. Powerlifters compete in weight classes and under different rules. It doesn't have to be one vs the other. They're 2 different things in 2 different sports. There's room for both. What Thor and Hall and others have done is incredibly impressive, even if they had to bulk to 450 lbs to do it. However, what Jamal Browner can do at 250 - 270 lbs is also incredibly impressive.
@Matt my point is that he didn't provide any actual evidence or proof for any of the things he said. He simply asserted it as fact. Like saying that the deadlift isn't supposed to test your grip, but rather the posterior chain, etc. He asserts it without actually providing some evidence, like, "hey, the guy that actually invented the deadlift said it wasn't about grip strength" etc...
@Matt and no, not every argument has opinions in it. If I argue 2+2=4, that's not an opinion. Not much of a thinker, are ya? Every argument has opinions? That's not even remotely true. Many if not most arguments are not actually a matter of opinion at all. I don't sit around arguing opinions with people. It's facts that I'm concerned with. Objective truth. Not subjective truth claims.
@Matt I didn't say he is objectively wrong. I said he's only stating opinions, rather than providing evidence. Maybe his opinions are right, but we don't really know, because he didn't provide evidence. You say he provided plenty of evidence. Okay, like what? Give me one single example of evidence he provided in the video. One example. That's right. You can't, because he didn't provide any. As for liking my own comments, it's a habit now, because TH-cam often deletes comments, so I like my comment after it posts to see if it has been deleted or not. If it doesn't let me like it, it's deleted. For example, I tried telling someone my Instagram name on several occasions, so they could look me up, and TH-cam deleted it every time. They also delete a lot of religious and political comments. So don't worry about me liking my own comments. It doesn't effect you in any way, and I assure you I didn't like my original comment 4 times, so as of right now, more people agree with me than you lol P.S. Stop separating your sentences with commas. It's sad. My children have better grammar and punctuation than you. It's tough to read your run on sentence comments with unnecessary commas all over the place.
As someone who loves both Sports, Eddie Hall proved that strongman had the better deadlifters. Power lifting has 3 lifts, strongman you have to be ready for anything that might be thrown at you and still deadlift. There really is no comparison.
@@AlexanderBromley he's already within a square mile of 500 kg, buddy, and he weighs what? 250 lbs? Lol This whole thing is so personal to you. You're the biggest cry baby ever. Way to show you're true colors. Grow up.
@@samvega290 he was pretty rude to me on another comment reply, so I'm just kinda like...fuck him...at this point. I simply said his video was an opinion piece, which is fine, but it is subjective, and then he got in his feelings and left me a long disrespectful response. So I've unsubscribed, obviously. It's clear from his tone in the video and in his replies that he's very emotionally invested in this argument, which is fine. It's just not that serious. I'm sure he doesn't care, but he lost a sub. His channel is tiny anyways, and maybe this is why. Didn't he say something in the video about how we can't even disagree with him if we aren't helping him pay his bills through Patrion or whatnot? He's a clown.
Dude, I hear you on some of these points. But you are also so far off base on some of this stuff. I mean to say that the deadlift is somehow neglected by powerlifting because they do it last is just ridiculous. I feel like it's fairly common knowledge that the redheaded stepchild of lifts in powerlifting is bench press. If anything, the deadlift being last is more like it is headlining the show, which is what it feels like at the meet. Then your point about the 50K and 100K challenges for 505kilo deadlifts and no powerlifters showing up is equally ridiculous (quick note that none of the strongmen in attendance even got close if I remember correctly). So you're asking with a straight face why people who specialize in lifting a certain way, to specific standards, wouldn't sign up, throw on equipment that they basically never use, adjust their form to allow themselves to hitch etc, all while trying to pull the heaviest deadlift in history? The injury potential would be through the roof, and the likelihood of success would be so minimal. Not because they are inferior deadlifters, because it is simply different from what they train for all the time. I'm a huge fan of both strongman and powerlifting. I love them both and I understand that the training is very very different. I don't need to tell you that strongman training is far more widely applicable in terms of functional strength. Since you are a strongman yourself, it shouldn't surprise me that you would feel like "oh sure, just show up and do things differently than you're used and get it done" because that's how strongman works. But I think you are ignoring several factors here. First of all being that you're talking about putting powerlifters in a strongman deadlift competition. So what happens when a strongman is in a powerlifting meet? I think a powerlifter making this same youtube video from that point of view would come to the exact opposite conclusions from what you have. You're giving strongmen a pass on hitching, suits, straps etc because it suits your argument not because it is valid to do so. To this point you chose, of all people, Jerry Pritchit as an example of a great strongman deadlifter. That dude was a powerlifter for 16 years before he ever started in strongman. In fact, speaking of Jerry, he pulled a 914 deadlift in a powerlifting meet in April 2016 then just shy of a year later he pulled a 1031 deadlift at the arnold strongman classic. I think this alone speaks for the fact that you can't just wave off the differences in standards for deadlifts between the two sports. Then the whole deal about locking out these elevated deadlifts, I mean I love that shit but c'mon, the main difference here is a reduced range of motion, you're telling me that a a good, conventional pulling powerlifter is going to UNDER perform on what amounts to an easier version of a standard deadlift? Do you even realize that your whole openpowerlifting.org session just proved that the point that some of the best conventional deadlifting powerlifters went on to excel at strongman? You say they are "strongmen first" but that's not true, they WERE powerlifters first THEN went on to strongman. I watch a lot of your videos and generally appreciate them very much, but this is just some petty bullshit. The sports are massively different. I was really hoping for a more thoughtful analysis here but you're really just shitting on powerlifting which is kinda sad because I don't think we need to drag one sport to lift another up.
One wall of text deserves another. Some points: Risk of injury and adapting to new equipment/technique: If you were talking about a bench shirt and squat suit, I would agree with you (although Westside is notorious for their guys not putting on equipment until the day of; I don't recommend it just saying they didn't have trouble getting away with it back in the day). A deadlift suit, straps and hitching are all INSANELY low tech. It takes a practice day to figure out a suit, most lifters use straps at some point anyways and I can teach an effective hitch in a single session. We aren't teaching bodybuilders how to snatch, here. Those 3 things also improve support, compression and leverage (and save your biceps), all for what might amount to an extra 50lbs on the bar. Given we are discussing people whose entire livelihood is spent lifting the heaviest weight possible in a competitive setting, you are greatly exaggerating the technical barriers and the potential risk. Essentially you're saying that they can't be expected to perform because they don't train that way, which is completely reasonable. But if someone's performance hinges so tightly on exact replication of tightly controlled contest variables, that's enough for me to say "you might be good, but you aren't the best". They don't train the deadlift in a way that gets outside of the narrow capacity they need it developed inside of. So when comparing their pulling abilities overall against a group of people who do, why would they get to reserve the right to call themselves "just as good?". Ease of elevated deadlifts: Elevated deadlifts are not 'easier or harder'. The potential to move weight is higher but whether you can or not depends on how you're built and how you train. Some people see a 10% drop on an 16-18" axle deadlift because it represents a dead spot where they can't get leg drive and they are used to having momentum on the bar at that point. Strongman have to train it regularly because it's a feature of the sport, so they can eventually exploit the mechanical advantage and hoist much more than their pull from the floor. Powerlifters aren't rewarded for exceptional lockout strength so they don't. It's like I made a video about the world's fastest men and you balked at 100m sprinters because they use starting blocks, run on an optimized surface and implement efficiency techniques that other athletes shouldn't be expected to be familiar with. "My guys aren't as fast but they run barefoot through the mountains!" Like, I don't care what the rationalization is. In practice, PL athletes fall short in capacity, adaptability AND total weight. I'm not going to humor the positivity police when they say "they're both valid". This is sport, and there can only be one king! Pritchett: I know Pritchett. I competed in a few shows he hosted and went heads up against him in 2009. He probably weighed 280 and his deadlift was in the mid-700s. He got serious about strongman at that time, gained 60+lbs and became one of the best log pressers, yoke/frame carriers and deadlifters in the world. While powerlifting Jerry pulled a 716 in 2001 and again in 2008. He powerlifted and got stagnant, switched to strongman and became one of the goats. It's a pretty common story. I posted this before and will probably have to do it again: I'm aware this is low-quality filler content (I said as much in the beginning of the video). But part of the fun of participating in sports is these types of discussions, even when they get catty. I see a lot of lifters who wince at the thought of critiquing a lifter's performance, commenting on established rules or heaven forbid comparing the performances of two different lifters. If you know diehard fans of fighting, football, basketball, soccer, etc. you will see that almost all of their discussions involve comparisons and 'what-if' scenarios (that's pretty much all ESPN is). I see no reason why lifters should be treated as so fragile that they can't withstand similar commentary.
I love watching your videos, I am probably one of your biggest fans. I think you are more interesting for me to watch when you are not comparing different sports. No disrespect to you or strongman, I simply don't agree with comparing such different sports. I don't care about each sports rules, strongman dose not allow sumo and that is OK. Powerlifting dose not allow straps, and that's OK. None of them are more or less a deadlift. Powerlifters are not the best strongman, and strongman are not the best Powerlifters. I really don't get the need to establish a deadlift king between two different sports.
I appreciate it, and I'm aware this is low-quality filler content (I said as much in the beginning of the video). But part of the fun of participating in sports is these types of discussions, even when they get a bit catty. I see a lot of lifters who wince at the thought of critiquing a lifter's performance, commenting on established rules or *heaven forbid* comparing the performances of two different lifters. If you know diehard fans of fighting, football, basketball, soccer, etc. you will see that almost all of their discussions involve comparisons and 'what-if' scenarios (that's pretty much all ESPN is). I see no reason why lifters should be treated as so fragile that they can't withstand similar commentary.
Powerlifting has forever tainted the word "Deadlift" by insisting sumo be considered the exact same thing as conventional. Trying to find information about conventional deadlifting is made more annoying than it has to be due to all the sumo noise you'll get in any search on the subject. That's not even the worst of it though, that honor goes to the smug attitude a lot of them have on the topic. Yeah bro, it really keeps me up at night that you can sumo more weight than I can with conventional...Really? Asinine stuff.
I think you made some good points, mostly about how the best deadlifters are competing in strongman deadlifting competitions, and powerlifters don't. I think generally the sport that measures the original lift will be the sport that owns it, like I don't think strongmen gain more from having different deadlift exercises without the previous point in context.
Hey Alex. I know you briefly touched on straps here, but do you recommend them for deadlifting? I definitely do find my grip lacking recently but chalk has helped me push on a bit. Feel like I've got loads in my legs but my hands are dying.
For most people starting out, I recommend chalk and a mixed grip and doing a fair amount of upper back work (rows, chins, pulldowns, etc) without straps. That's enough to keep your grip ticking forward without limiting your deadlift gains. When you get stronger, how you train will depend on competitive goals. If you want to compete in PL, you need to base most of your work around strapless reps (unless the volume starts to eat at your skin, in which case straps can be incorporated). If you don't, it doesn't really matter; there's no bonus points for going strapless so I recommend them.
I'd recommend learning to hook grip early and pull your warmups just double overhand. Gives you both some grip training and an unbreakable grip for max weights
Here’s an actual question. What makes a better deadlift ? Lifter A) lifts more absolute weight (even with not the best form) vs lifter B) perfect technique but less weight than lifter A. I’ve heard arguments for both but would like to hear from Bromley? Someone who actual knows their shit.
Do the folks who are getting mad realize you do some of the best breakdowns and explanations of powerlifting training available on the web, much less TH-cam?
Powerlifting as a sport is by far the lamest of the lifting sports. Their rules caused people to do ridiculous 1 inch ROM benches with backs more arched than a cheeze doodle. They essentially allow the exact same thing for the deadlift due allowing, for some ridiculous reason, sumo. And you only have to squat to parallel which also leads to some ridiculous shit. Yes, they weights are impressive. And that's generally the only thing. Olympic and strongman both clearly demonstrate pure strength and technical skill, while Powerlifting demonstrates the sort of in-depth understanding of legal technicalities that would put the average lawyer to shame.
just watched this and listened no argument from this powerlifter everything you spoke on i agree with as for the greatest of all time deadlifters strongmen are kings like hall..thor..j.f.caron..b.shaw and others powerlifting my sport only use the deadlift to make a. end of event total when i competed i made it my most impirtant lift cause the last closing curtain performance should be your best my best in the past were 630 at 198 665 at 198 and 671 at 198. thats 20 yrs ago im 54 now best is 525..3 reps no suit just belt and chalk anyway strongmen get my vote on that note if anyone argue with you they are delusional....thank you for bringing this topic up front great job very smart.
Let’s not underrate Powerlifters. Strongman are of course great, but generally huge. Let’s use one of your examples, Jamal Browner has pulled a conventional deadlift at 431 Kg, at a body weight of 110 Kg, so about half the mass of Eddie or Thor. And yes he used straps but no suit. I’ll bet if he spent a couple of years focusing on only deadlift and eating 10,000 calories a day he would up there at about the 500 Kg region? You only used deadlift as a comparison, what about bench press, surely this is another example of upper body strength, however strongman don’t do this?
I don’t get why people act like straps are cheating. If we wanted to see who has the best deadlift I feel like everyone should be allowed to strap and use a belt at the very least. Also I think I would rather see people pull on a trap bar than pull sumo
Way to put into words what I have been thinking for a very long time when it comes to comparing strongman and powerlifting. Not just in regards to the deadlift but just in general. Strongman is just better.
I love it because I compare strongman to the working man I work logging and I've seen some pretty small guys literally move. Mountains but seen college football players not make it a day out there
Ask someone who really loves the sport of powerlifting. I have to say. I wish there was a new division where you only have to do close grip bench, high bar squat and a conventional deadlift. Is this gets rid of all the gimmicks in arguments for not being actually being valid. Unpopular opinion but I actually believe that's how it should be.
I think a major caveat here is that powerlifters generally aren't the tallest biggest dudes(or dudettes) strongman ARE generally the biggest tallest strongest in the room. Size matters in overall lifting capacity...
The weak point on a deadlift, after the grip, is the back. So the real test of leg strength is when the guy bends over and you put the weight on his hips-and the records for that are in the multiple thousands of pounds. Clearly an even better deadlift which should be less neglected.
Jamal browner has done 953.5 lbs conventional after a single training cycle of it. That was without straps as well, and we all know grip is a limiting factor for him. That was at a bodyweight of 240-250 lbs, I'd say if he bulked and trained for it he could easily be in the conversation for the record conventional deadlift, he just hit 500kg sumo as well. I think it's disrespectful to guys like him to say that powerlifters can't deadlift with the likes of strongmen.
Length of bar and radius of plates(or tires) is significantly important. To me the standart deadlift is done with standard deadlift bar with Olympic plates.
Everything you've spoken on is truth about the subject of Deadlifts I've always been a powerlifter I use to not like how the rules wanted you to perform pretty I hated that wish back then we were allowed to use straps like strongman.
Ray Williams squatting 490kg/1080lbs in just a belt and sleeves walking that out and squatting it is way more impressive than a 500kg deadlift with figure 8 straps and a deadlift suit. It's mentally way harder to squat 1000+ than deadlift 1000+
Ray Williams is an absolute stud, but what is psychologically easier depends on the lifter and their own bag of strengths and weaknesses. If you've got a few advantages and spent 1000s of hours under a barbell, you won't think twice about burying a max squat. The same lifter might get sweaty palms when the bar is lying dead on the floor staring at them. Also, body fat greatly helps squatting ability where it tends to get in the way on deadlifts. Fat doesn't compress, so guys with big bellys benefit from the pressure out of the bottom. In practice, it is exactly like a built in squat suit. Wilkerson, Williams, Alhazov, etc..... If anyone of them woke up at under 25% body fat, their squatting performance would suffer greatly. Any squatter who has gained and then lost waist circumference has experienced this.
I listened to this on the podcast, it was a good episode because a lot of your episodes are just you telling hyperspecialised newbie powerlifters they are doing it wrong, but this one was more fun. speaking of deadlifts... i can conventional pull 500ish the other day i tried sumo from a 4 inch block. I got 6x 500. first time doing sumo in many years. I'm wondering, is this what deadlifting feels like for people with good leverages?
Could you do a video on why strongman athletes seem to be, on average - freaks of nature than in other strength sports ? Or Is it just a psychological thing
Natural selection and prestige incentives. As a tall and very strong guy, you have a shot at being a good strongman. People take that shot bc of the prestige. Just look at all the former powerlifters switching to strongman. How many strongmen have done the opposite? I know but maybe one if Benni counts. Sure, they dabble but none commit. It's all about prestige and culture. Same reason that certain countries excel at some strength sports but not others.
@@MellonVegan I'm more asking why the nature of the sport of strongman is very suited towards taller, absolute freaks of nature. They all have to be able to deadlift 420kg+ to be competitive for example
The deadlift world record holder is both a strongman and a powerlifter. Notably, he’s a long way off holding the powerlifting deadlift record. It’s almost like they’re different disciplines, and different people do better at different variations.
@@AlexanderBromley I agree. If people want to suit and strap up, hitch their way to soft lockouts, that’s fine in my book. Do whatever you like. I don’t think the “ad populum” argument is worth much though. Ultimately, it doesn’t really matter. We’re lifting heavy sticks in a recreational setting. It’s not that deep.
When talking about universal standards? Yes the..... "ad populum" .... (fucking christ)..... argument is actually worth quite a lot. I know youre too cool to bother with something as silly as comparing athletic performances..... but that's not how any sporting discussion works. Athletes/coaches/fans analyze performances into the ground to try and make meaningful statements about someone's capabilities. Pretty useful if you want to help someone compete across sports or shore up weak areas. The "its all different, dont compare, do you" bit is soooo lazy; it only comes from people who benefit from the lack of scrutiny and want to maintain some opinion without saying anything useful.
@@AlexanderBromley Trying to define a “universal standard” for the deadlift is foolish, because the powerlifting and strongman deadlift are too different. The rules, the equipment, the judging, the type of competitor that tends to do better at the deadlift within each sport… it’s like trying to determine a “universal standard” for Football. Is it Soccer? American Football? Gaelic Football? Aussie Football? Attempts to compare powerlifting deadlifts to strongman deadlifts are like trying to compare raw vs equipped lifts in powerlifting, or comparing across the various deadlift disciplines in strongman. They’re too different to make an accurate comparison. What we end up with is tribalist nonsense like “hur hur, strongman cool, powerlifting dumb”, or the reverse. It’s silly, and helps no-one.
The only issue is some people sumo isnt hortible . Hell some peoples sumo isnt that much shorter of a rom then someone elses conventional . I agree on the straps being good for the deadlift but idk about suits it borders on the lameness of equipped lifting but its still impressive in its own right
today i droped the mixed grip going back to using straps as well as today is day one of superior deadlift plan A . IM SO EXCITED TO DO THIS PLAN AND IM LOOKING FORWARD TO SEING WHAT THIS LEADS TO . i have no desire to compete in powerlifting i box an do mma so if i tear a bicep i am fucked great video alex defintly made my opinion change
I have to some extent disagree. What alienates the public from powerlifting deadlifts is primarily the stances. What the public does not understand is the differences that equipment makes. The strongest deadlifter in the world is the guy who can conventional lock out the most weight on a stiff bar, with calibrated disks, from the floor, with no equipment outside of chalk and a belt. It’s the ultimate test of being physically capable of using just your body to do the gym lift that everyone else is doing. Strongmen don’t deadlift like that because there’s one or more hundred of pounds in the difference between what they are capable of doing between that and the style they do in strongman competitions.
Move your pop guard about two inches away from your microphone. It isn't helping if there is contact. Your p's are definitely popping. Beyond that, great content. I totally agree with everything you said. Subscribed.
my opinion is that powerlifting would have better deadlifting if the dumb ass Federations would allow straps they’re not allowing the athlete to perform at their best and show what they can actually do I love both strongman and powerlifting but the restriction that powerlifting puts on their athletes just makes them under perform and there are certain elements in the strongman competitions that I do believe should be addressed and I guess fixed you could say But both are amazing and fun to watch when the athletes are at 100% and not injured or hurt
Most of us powerlifters think highly of strongman competitors. We just powerlift because there is not enough strongman gyms and competitions near us. Powerlifting meets and gyms are much more common.
World's Strongest Man, Mark Henry! Numbers still holding up from 1995 and dude is still getting paid in the wrestling world, currently with All Elite Wrestling.
Something I'm curious about is whether the statistics on strongman might be skewed by risk tolerance. Strongman has a much higher injury rate than power lifting does, and in general the best way to maximum performance is to get as close as possible to injury (which means crossing over that threshold by accident more often). This would be kind of like how all of the best race car drivers don't care if they die, because racecar drivers who care if they die leave bigger safety margins which costs them time/speed. Eddie Hall, if you look into his history, seems almost indifferent to his survival. If this is a trend-because, let's be honest, Strongman is practically designed to hurt people-it would be interesting to know how much it can explain strongmen's superior performance that these are the people who throw themselves against the wall and don't break, and that's how you get the strongest people (take the toughest people and push them the hardest). I'm not shit-talking here, this is a serious question, because it's always interesting to look at how self-selective pressures work.
This issue could use a bit more attention. Very few strongmen make a living doing just strongman competition, but it seems like you have to go to injury point regularly to make it to that level.The amateur strongmen and basically all powerlifters gotta go back to work on Monday, so destroying yourself isn't a good idea, not to mention in the USA there's a good chance you don't have great health insurance coverage for something like that, if you have insurance at all.
I'm a strongman. I still think the powerlifting WR is the WR. Imo, strongman pulls talent and builds strength really well but it doesn't test the very best deadlifter.
Very very interesting. I'm an extremely amateur lifter who has never done proper powerlifting or strongman. My best sumo deadlift comes at 500lbs and my best conventional comes at 460lbs. I do those raw. When I try with straps I actually get worse aha. Probably because I don't use them very often
This is very normal actually. You have to learn how to use the equipment effectively. You can't just expect to throw on a belt after 5 years of beltless training and hit a 20kg PR.
I hate the whining about cheating across the board. You train to compete in the sport. It’s like saying it’s cheating to wear gloves as a wide receiver in football. If the sport allows it, it’s not cheating by definition
True story. In lifting, cheating gets used to mean 'not strict', which people think, by default, is worse. I used to see guys at the bar tell the international armwrestlers I knew that their competitive techniques weren't valid because they moved their bodies.
I thoroughly enjoyed that and agree 99%. Only thing is I thought World deadlift championships is on invite? If they take all comers wouldn't it make the show too long?
If you have the numbers, they are eager to take you in. It's really easy to get in, you just have to network a bit and the biggest names in PL have always been able to do that. Few people are knocking down the door to get out of their comfort zone.
Hi, am powerlifter, we don't view the deadlift as the "red-headed step child" at all, we view the bench that way actually, and the order of the lifts in powerlifting has nothing to do with how we view them. We have the bench in the middle because doing two upper body lifts at maximal effort (very important in your comparison here) would not yield the highest total. The objective is the highest total relative to bodyweight. The reason powerlifters dont deadlift as much as strongmen is because they are overwhelmingly much smaller than strongmen, when you look at who is lifting a higher percentage of bodyweight in the lift, its powerlifters by far. Overall this was a pretty poor argument. To say powerlifters don't value the deadlift just shows willful ignorance on your part, its the favorite lift of most powerlifters. Overall this came off as you shitting on powerlifting and not really understanding the objective of the sport. Powerlifting is a weight class sport the best powerlifter is the one with the highest coefficient. Thats why Atwood and Haack are considered the goats. Dont twist it.
I reject your assertion as to what 'powerlifting is about' or that it somehow reaches a level of complexity that the purpose can be misunderstood in the first place. The objective of the sport is to lift more weight than the other person in your class; wilks is a way to normalize performances across weight classes (and many reject that it does that well, since it biases heavily towards light females). Few know of Gasparyan (highest wilks ever), but everyone knows Maddox and Bell. Because weight wins. We could talk about classes and I could mention the numerous women in SM who pull over 600 (including Lovelace who did it at 140) and I could mention how they would similarly trounce your favorite PL pullers in any implement or rep range. But I agree, Strongman is a big man's sport so I narrowed my focus to the big men; the entire video focused exclusively on the biggest pulls regardless of class. Novikov pulled 1k under 300lbs and another dozen pulled it weighing less than Dan Bell did when he shattered the PL record (only Hall, Thor and Shaw skew the body weight numbers). But it doesn't matter because your weight class obsession isn't relevant to who the biggest pullers are any more than it's relevant to who the fastest man is. It's another annoying feature of a hobby designed to give as many 1st place trophies out as possible and the people who behave like run-of-the-mill sports discussion causes them personal injury. Since this is my video (and because I'm having a GREAT time!) I offically label this comment section a party.
@@AlexanderBromley 1) Thanks for agreeing with me as to what the objective of the sport is, if you read my original post more carefully you'll see that I said that. 2) Basically everyone who competes in powerlifting at a high level knows who Marianna Gasparyan is, actually. The reason the world doesn't is because she doesn't have a big social media presence because she is not fluent in English. 3) this wasn't a debate about who the biggest pullers are its about what sport owns the deadlift, there are no cpaps in the jungle either and your opinion is just as subjective as anyone elses especially regarding sumo vs hitching, multiply deadlift suits and straps lol. I didnt say powerlifting owned it, I simply said you're misrepresenting the sport in your video. 4) Calling someone weight class obsessed for pointing out that powerlifting is a weight class sport and that first place overall is given out on the basis of coefficient and not total weight is a disingenuous coping mechanism. Do better. 5) If sumo were universally easier, I'd do it. As you can see, I do not.
If you had to hire powerlifters or strongmen to move a bunch of heavy boulders and logs and other heavy shit, across a field without machines, you would choose the ones who display the most strength, power, and stamina. Not powerlifters.
Man, you are killing all the powerlifters. Wont be anyone left to sweat all over the benches and breathe heavy from walking if you keep this up.
I have to get my intra-set snack in before my next deadlift rep😰
The subliminals on both of these comments are gold.
i like powerlifting, but i fucking hate powerlifting, does that make sense ? probably not
@@Anduehan97 I get you bro
My shit talking is out of a desire to save them
Strongmen are definitely strongmen
KK was a mega stud. RIP 🙏
Almost all my deadlifting I've ever trained has been without straps. However for the last month I've been using straps as I have strongman comp coming up soon. Something I've experienced is that the straps help in ways that I really didn't expect - they do far more than just take care of grip.
Straps allow me to get into a better start position - I can pull myself into the bar more effectively because I'm attached to it. I have a fat gut, and using straps I can wear my belt a bit lower and get my feet a bit narrower, both of which are more advantageous for me. Doing this also means that as my hips come down, my gut presses onto my quads and levers the weight off the ground nicely. I can break the weight off the floor just by setting up like this. Even better is that by using figure 8s the bar sits about 3 inches lower down in my finger tips which makes my lockout significantly easier.
I'm not really into the whole PL vs Strongman deadlifting debate, I don't really care tbh, this is just my own experience of the difference in deadlifting styles.
I do have a bone to pick with figure 8s. I mean, I use the hell out of them, but the bar hanging by the fingers gives more advantage than a suit ever could.
Curious, why can't you setup that way without straps? If your grip is strong enough to hold the weight, you should be able to do all those things with or without straps.
@@AlexanderBromley he forgets to wipe the cheese doodle residue off them between sets. Makes it slippery as fuck. Ive done that mistake thousands of times, its a bitch.
@@AlexanderBromley Agreed re figure 8s but if its within the rules and gives such an advantage then of course makes sense to use them. Would be silly not to if others are.
Re setting up like this without straps, going raw I use mixed grip and I have stumpy fat hands so I have to really twist my hands under the bar to hold on. Also with mixed grip I have to grip the bar wider due to lack of shoulder and wrist rotation mobility. Add these together and my starting position suffers a lot, I end up much more bent over than with using straps.
@MEAT BASED VEGAN Yea if you can use straps in comp then 100% better way to go. I've mostly trained for powerlifting in the past so stuck to mixed grip. Never got comfortable with hook grip.
@@AlexanderBromley idk how people let the bar hang in their fingers, I can't keep my back tight if I do that. The straps usually slide off too, it's not secure at all for me.
As a powerlifter I really wish it didn’t have sumo. It’s always been apart of it, and PL has been around roughly 3 decades before I’ve been alive, but it can really bastardize the lift.
Just like the maxed out grip with internally rotated wrist 2in ROM bench press by a 5’5 dude. Just cause it complies with the rules doesn’t mean it isn’t significantly less impressive
You telling me I shouldn't have a 10 inch arch, with my hands touching the plates, and have a 2 inch ROM for my bench? Haterade
Before i read the second part I was going to say, sumo dl is less of a reason I lose respect for powerlifting. Those bench press rules are pathetic..
@@davidrtrains the bench press rules need to be reworked. I think sumo is totally fine though
How dare anyone be aware of their anthropometry and pull sumo.
To be fair to Dan Bell in particular, 410 kg/904 lbs is nowhere near his max; last year he pulled that weight so fast it looked like he was going to clean it. I have zero doubts that with straps he was capable of at least 430-440kg on that day. I agree with the rest of the video though. One thing I will say is that no matter how much powerlifters "neglect" the deadlift compared to strongmen, the reverse is even more true with squats - I just watched "World's Strongest Man" Tom Stoltman struggle with UNDER 700 LBS in WRAPS! No way could any SHW set a record total in powerlifting with a 700 lbs squat, "weak" deadlift or not.
I'm sure some of the top PL guys give up weight going without straps. The squat point is valid; plenty of guys at the top w/ sub par squats. HOWEVER, most of the champs hang. Thor had 1k+ in contest (Martins beat him easily in a squat for reps), Hall has a video of 760 for 8 that looked like he had 12+; Shaw and Z were usually on his level in squat events. Hard to compare because strongman usually features weird implements for squatting where deadlifts often have a barbell.
@@AlexanderBromley I think if we talk about squatting we need to include weightlifters aswell. I think its under the radar because the big guys dont push there squat after a certain treshold. On the other hand there are some smaller male and female lifters who broke PL records in an average friday afternoon session after snatch/C&J
Tom's never been good at squats, so that's a pretty poor example. There's barely any squatting in strongman. Thor trained for 6 weeks for his powerlifting comp and did 1014lbs (or 1016?).
You probably cherry picked the session where he felt weka all around. He is not one of the best in squats among strongmen but he will definately do closer to 900lbs on the Arnolds.
@@Micheldied He did 970lbs w/ wraps for his squat his total was 1100kg
just wanna say the audio is great on this video. TY
The amount of people that is officialy in the thousand pound club goes to 16 guys, of them only two (Andy and Benedikt) did it as powerlifters who by they way also crossed to strongman, of wich Andy did not as good in the strongman deadlift and the other did his heaviest deadlift as strongman, the other 14 guys are mainly strongman and it starting to feel like a thousand pound club is not as exclusive anymore. Unofficialy only 6 guys have lifted over 470 KG, all strongman, only 3 officialy (4 if you count Pehiman no lock lift), and ofc only two guys have lifted 500Kg (+). I think is fair to say Strongman dominates the deadlift and sumo is a different story.
Well put.
Considering powerlifters generally don’t knock on 400 pounds, it makes sense there’s less 1000 pound pullers.
Few occasions the deadlift got huge publicity. Raw deadlift from Benedikt and Eddie Hall 500kg. Thor’s deadlift was featured on ESPN main channel which is pretty big deal
I saw Thor deadlifting on a Reign sign outside of a gas station. That's market penetration right there.
Powerlifting is a laughing stock now with 1 inch bench press and 3 inch sumo deadlifts . 18 inch hummer tire deadlifts has more ROM than these sumo pullers
"the lifting equivalent of bingeing the Kardashians"
you had my attention, but now you have my curiosity.
Hi
@@squatcurldeadlift7346hi
I think strongman does own deadlifting for exactly as you said, it cares more so therefore pays more which attracts better athletes. I do think Jamal Browner could be a middle pack strongman deadlifter (no other events obviously). He almost locked out 430kg (948lbs) conventional recently. That's by no means a top strongman deadlift, but I think you could argue without a weight class, suit and straps he might do a little better, maybe 1000lbs? But by no means winning any deadlift comps.
And I think he'd be the only person who could even hang with the pack in a strongman deadlift comp, and only then if it's done from a regular height. Anything higher he wouldn't hang.
He locked it out last year with strap, and that would have won him the event at the touché invitational against guys like Caron, Pritchett, and Shaw. Edit: he also trains conventional one or two months out of the year.
Damn after looking over it again Shaw didn’t even pull 900 John hack has pulled more weight under 200
Hell finitely nasonov a 82.5 kg lifter pulled more than Shaw, though I get the feeling he pulled sumo.
Browner would be have the u105 strongman deadlift record in less than 2 month if he trained for it.
@@apo75018 he cuts to 110kg. If did want to hit 105 it would hinder his performance for sure.
Also, no offense to 105kg strongman, but no one's really cares about it. Strongman I'd a niche sport, and being into 105 strongman is like a niche within a niche
I've done both disciplines....and to be honest if you want to be strong strongman is much more relevant and has more carryover. I agree with the video.
This was gold, thanks for killing a half hour for me with such magnificence.
lol reviews are definitely mixed
@@AlexanderBromley if my life depends on nominating a champion to represent me from one of either strongman or powerlifting, I’m sure as fuck not putting up an IPF bro…even John Haack does strongman meets after all :D
This was great, more like it please :)
5:00 mixed grip and straps?
Terry Hollands used to do the same thing and it drove me nuts lol. You get good at how you train!
Ooooof, I can't wait to check back on the comments in a few days.
Well I definitely bring the old average down for the powerlifters. I have failed my people.
ELITE RAW deadlifters are kings of deadlift. Strongmen use straps meanwhile plenty of raw lifters are now digging into the low 900lbs
Benedict Magnusson. End of transaction.
10:10 that is true because they always put the deadlift last where I love that Arnold puts the deadlift first. It's what the people want to watch the most to determine who is the strongest, as well as everybody will be more fresh and ready
This entire video is filled with your subjective opinions, which is fine. Just don't act like you're spitting facts.
You're spitting opinions. Like saying deadlift isn't about grip, so using straps is fine. That's your opinion.
Hitching and ramping are fine. That's your opinion. Wearing a DL suit is fine. That's your opinion. Using a non-standard bar and plates is fine. That's your opinion.
I don't think it's about which one is better. They're different. Powerlifters compete in weight classes and under different rules. It doesn't have to be one vs the other. They're 2 different things in 2 different sports. There's room for both.
What Thor and Hall and others have done is incredibly impressive, even if they had to bulk to 450 lbs to do it. However, what Jamal Browner can do at 250 - 270 lbs is also incredibly impressive.
??? Yes. My opinions are definitely opinions.
@@AlexanderBromley yep, glad you get it... nice job 👍
@Matt my point is that he didn't provide any actual evidence or proof for any of the things he said. He simply asserted it as fact. Like saying that the deadlift isn't supposed to test your grip, but rather the posterior chain, etc.
He asserts it without actually providing some evidence, like, "hey, the guy that actually invented the deadlift said it wasn't about grip strength" etc...
@Matt and no, not every argument has opinions in it. If I argue 2+2=4, that's not an opinion. Not much of a thinker, are ya? Every argument has opinions? That's not even remotely true. Many if not most arguments are not actually a matter of opinion at all. I don't sit around arguing opinions with people. It's facts that I'm concerned with. Objective truth. Not subjective truth claims.
@Matt I didn't say he is objectively wrong. I said he's only stating opinions, rather than providing evidence. Maybe his opinions are right, but we don't really know, because he didn't provide evidence.
You say he provided plenty of evidence. Okay, like what? Give me one single example of evidence he provided in the video. One example. That's right. You can't, because he didn't provide any.
As for liking my own comments, it's a habit now, because TH-cam often deletes comments, so I like my comment after it posts to see if it has been deleted or not. If it doesn't let me like it, it's deleted. For example, I tried telling someone my Instagram name on several occasions, so they could look me up, and TH-cam deleted it every time. They also delete a lot of religious and political comments. So don't worry about me liking my own comments. It doesn't effect you in any way, and I assure you I didn't like my original comment 4 times, so as of right now, more people agree with me than you lol
P.S. Stop separating your sentences with commas. It's sad. My children have better grammar and punctuation than you. It's tough to read your run on sentence comments with unnecessary commas all over the place.
As someone who loves both Sports, Eddie Hall proved that strongman had the better deadlifters. Power lifting has 3 lifts, strongman you have to be ready for anything that might be thrown at you and still deadlift. There really is no comparison.
I dunno, bud. Let's see what Jamal Browner does with straps at literally 200 lbs less bodyweight. 🤔
He will do something impressive but it won't be within a square mile of 500
@@AlexanderBromley he's already within a square mile of 500 kg, buddy, and he weighs what? 250 lbs? Lol
This whole thing is so personal to you. You're the biggest cry baby ever. Way to show you're true colors. Grow up.
@@rickstark85 yikes, this reaction seems a tad overwrought. I think bromleys video was deliberately antagonist for the purpose of entertainment
@@samvega290 he was pretty rude to me on another comment reply, so I'm just kinda like...fuck him...at this point. I simply said his video was an opinion piece, which is fine, but it is subjective, and then he got in his feelings and left me a long disrespectful response.
So I've unsubscribed, obviously. It's clear from his tone in the video and in his replies that he's very emotionally invested in this argument, which is fine. It's just not that serious. I'm sure he doesn't care, but he lost a sub. His channel is tiny anyways, and maybe this is why. Didn't he say something in the video about how we can't even disagree with him if we aren't helping him pay his bills through Patrion or whatnot? He's a clown.
Dude, I hear you on some of these points. But you are also so far off base on some of this stuff. I mean to say that the deadlift is somehow neglected by powerlifting because they do it last is just ridiculous. I feel like it's fairly common knowledge that the redheaded stepchild of lifts in powerlifting is bench press. If anything, the deadlift being last is more like it is headlining the show, which is what it feels like at the meet. Then your point about the 50K and 100K challenges for 505kilo deadlifts and no powerlifters showing up is equally ridiculous (quick note that none of the strongmen in attendance even got close if I remember correctly). So you're asking with a straight face why people who specialize in lifting a certain way, to specific standards, wouldn't sign up, throw on equipment that they basically never use, adjust their form to allow themselves to hitch etc, all while trying to pull the heaviest deadlift in history? The injury potential would be through the roof, and the likelihood of success would be so minimal. Not because they are inferior deadlifters, because it is simply different from what they train for all the time. I'm a huge fan of both strongman and powerlifting. I love them both and I understand that the training is very very different. I don't need to tell you that strongman training is far more widely applicable in terms of functional strength. Since you are a strongman yourself, it shouldn't surprise me that you would feel like "oh sure, just show up and do things differently than you're used and get it done" because that's how strongman works. But I think you are ignoring several factors here. First of all being that you're talking about putting powerlifters in a strongman deadlift competition. So what happens when a strongman is in a powerlifting meet? I think a powerlifter making this same youtube video from that point of view would come to the exact opposite conclusions from what you have. You're giving strongmen a pass on hitching, suits, straps etc because it suits your argument not because it is valid to do so. To this point you chose, of all people, Jerry Pritchit as an example of a great strongman deadlifter. That dude was a powerlifter for 16 years before he ever started in strongman. In fact, speaking of Jerry, he pulled a 914 deadlift in a powerlifting meet in April 2016 then just shy of a year later he pulled a 1031 deadlift at the arnold strongman classic. I think this alone speaks for the fact that you can't just wave off the differences in standards for deadlifts between the two sports. Then the whole deal about locking out these elevated deadlifts, I mean I love that shit but c'mon, the main difference here is a reduced range of motion, you're telling me that a a good, conventional pulling powerlifter is going to UNDER perform on what amounts to an easier version of a standard deadlift? Do you even realize that your whole openpowerlifting.org session just proved that the point that some of the best conventional deadlifting powerlifters went on to excel at strongman? You say they are "strongmen first" but that's not true, they WERE powerlifters first THEN went on to strongman.
I watch a lot of your videos and generally appreciate them very much, but this is just some petty bullshit. The sports are massively different. I was really hoping for a more thoughtful analysis here but you're really just shitting on powerlifting which is kinda sad because I don't think we need to drag one sport to lift another up.
One wall of text deserves another.
Some points:
Risk of injury and adapting to new equipment/technique:
If you were talking about a bench shirt and squat suit, I would agree with you (although Westside is notorious for their guys not putting on equipment until the day of; I don't recommend it just saying they didn't have trouble getting away with it back in the day). A deadlift suit, straps and hitching are all INSANELY low tech. It takes a practice day to figure out a suit, most lifters use straps at some point anyways and I can teach an effective hitch in a single session. We aren't teaching bodybuilders how to snatch, here. Those 3 things also improve support, compression and leverage (and save your biceps), all for what might amount to an extra 50lbs on the bar. Given we are discussing people whose entire livelihood is spent lifting the heaviest weight possible in a competitive setting, you are greatly exaggerating the technical barriers and the potential risk.
Essentially you're saying that they can't be expected to perform because they don't train that way, which is completely reasonable. But if someone's performance hinges so tightly on exact replication of tightly controlled contest variables, that's enough for me to say "you might be good, but you aren't the best". They don't train the deadlift in a way that gets outside of the narrow capacity they need it developed inside of. So when comparing their pulling abilities overall against a group of people who do, why would they get to reserve the right to call themselves "just as good?".
Ease of elevated deadlifts:
Elevated deadlifts are not 'easier or harder'. The potential to move weight is higher but whether you can or not depends on how you're built and how you train. Some people see a 10% drop on an 16-18" axle deadlift because it represents a dead spot where they can't get leg drive and they are used to having momentum on the bar at that point. Strongman have to train it regularly because it's a feature of the sport, so they can eventually exploit the mechanical advantage and hoist much more than their pull from the floor. Powerlifters aren't rewarded for exceptional lockout strength so they don't.
It's like I made a video about the world's fastest men and you balked at 100m sprinters because they use starting blocks, run on an optimized surface and implement efficiency techniques that other athletes shouldn't be expected to be familiar with. "My guys aren't as fast but they run barefoot through the mountains!" Like, I don't care what the rationalization is. In practice, PL athletes fall short in capacity, adaptability AND total weight. I'm not going to humor the positivity police when they say "they're both valid". This is sport, and there can only be one king!
Pritchett:
I know Pritchett. I competed in a few shows he hosted and went heads up against him in 2009. He probably weighed 280 and his deadlift was in the mid-700s. He got serious about strongman at that time, gained 60+lbs and became one of the best log pressers, yoke/frame carriers and deadlifters in the world. While powerlifting Jerry pulled a 716 in 2001 and again in 2008. He powerlifted and got stagnant, switched to strongman and became one of the goats. It's a pretty common story.
I posted this before and will probably have to do it again:
I'm aware this is low-quality filler content (I said as much in the beginning of the video). But part of the fun of participating in sports is these types of discussions, even when they get catty. I see a lot of lifters who wince at the thought of critiquing a lifter's performance, commenting on established rules or heaven forbid comparing the performances of two different lifters. If you know diehard fans of fighting, football, basketball, soccer, etc. you will see that almost all of their discussions involve comparisons and 'what-if' scenarios (that's pretty much all ESPN is). I see no reason why lifters should be treated as so fragile that they can't withstand similar commentary.
I love watching your videos, I am probably one of your biggest fans.
I think you are more interesting for me to watch when you are not comparing different sports. No disrespect to you or strongman, I simply don't agree with comparing such different sports. I don't care about each sports rules, strongman dose not allow sumo and that is OK. Powerlifting dose not allow straps, and that's OK. None of them are more or less a deadlift. Powerlifters are not the best strongman, and strongman are not the best Powerlifters.
I really don't get the need to establish a deadlift king between two different sports.
I appreciate it, and I'm aware this is low-quality filler content (I said as much in the beginning of the video). But part of the fun of participating in sports is these types of discussions, even when they get a bit catty. I see a lot of lifters who wince at the thought of critiquing a lifter's performance, commenting on established rules or *heaven forbid* comparing the performances of two different lifters. If you know diehard fans of fighting, football, basketball, soccer, etc. you will see that almost all of their discussions involve comparisons and 'what-if' scenarios (that's pretty much all ESPN is). I see no reason why lifters should be treated as so fragile that they can't withstand similar commentary.
Powerlifting has forever tainted the word "Deadlift" by insisting sumo be considered the exact same thing as conventional. Trying to find information about conventional deadlifting is made more annoying than it has to be due to all the sumo noise you'll get in any search on the subject. That's not even the worst of it though, that honor goes to the smug attitude a lot of them have on the topic. Yeah bro, it really keeps me up at night that you can sumo more weight than I can with conventional...Really? Asinine stuff.
A man of principle and virtue!
5:22 My deadlift poundage keeps progressing but my bone density has stopped progressing. Time for a form check? :D
Just keep on until something snaps
@@AlexanderBromley Wildo, thanks coach!
what do you think about what you said at 10:00 now that jamal browner, a (generally) sumo puller, pulled upper 900s in giants live without a suit?
Jamal pulled 500kg
I think you made some good points, mostly about how the best deadlifters are competing in strongman deadlifting competitions, and powerlifters don't. I think generally the sport that measures the original lift will be the sport that owns it, like I don't think strongmen gain more from having different deadlift exercises without the previous point in context.
Ok now you got me interested in strongman training cause I want a big deadlift
This video was worth it then!
Hey Alex. I know you briefly touched on straps here, but do you recommend them for deadlifting? I definitely do find my grip lacking recently but chalk has helped me push on a bit. Feel like I've got loads in my legs but my hands are dying.
For most people starting out, I recommend chalk and a mixed grip and doing a fair amount of upper back work (rows, chins, pulldowns, etc) without straps. That's enough to keep your grip ticking forward without limiting your deadlift gains. When you get stronger, how you train will depend on competitive goals. If you want to compete in PL, you need to base most of your work around strapless reps (unless the volume starts to eat at your skin, in which case straps can be incorporated). If you don't, it doesn't really matter; there's no bonus points for going strapless so I recommend them.
@@AlexanderBromley thanks for the advice, appreciate it! :)
I'd recommend learning to hook grip early and pull your warmups just double overhand. Gives you both some grip training and an unbreakable grip for max weights
Here’s an actual question. What makes a better deadlift ? Lifter A) lifts more absolute weight (even with not the best form) vs lifter B) perfect technique but less weight than lifter A. I’ve heard arguments for both but would like to hear from Bromley? Someone who actual knows their shit.
As a Powerlifter even though I compete sumo I always train conventional. My sumo is only 20-30lbs more and I take some pride in that
Do the folks who are getting mad realize you do some of the best breakdowns and explanations of powerlifting training available on the web, much less TH-cam?
Powerlifting as a sport is by far the lamest of the lifting sports.
Their rules caused people to do ridiculous 1 inch ROM benches with backs more arched than a cheeze doodle.
They essentially allow the exact same thing for the deadlift due allowing, for some ridiculous reason, sumo.
And you only have to squat to parallel which also leads to some ridiculous shit.
Yes, they weights are impressive. And that's generally the only thing.
Olympic and strongman both clearly demonstrate pure strength and technical skill, while Powerlifting demonstrates the sort of in-depth understanding of legal technicalities that would put the average lawyer to shame.
As someone prepping for a Max Ukranian deadlift I agree
just watched this and listened no argument from this powerlifter everything you spoke on i agree with as for the greatest of all time deadlifters strongmen are kings like hall..thor..j.f.caron..b.shaw and others powerlifting my sport only use the deadlift to make a. end of event total when i competed i made it my most impirtant lift cause the last closing curtain performance should be your best my best in the past were 630 at 198 665 at 198 and 671 at 198. thats 20 yrs ago im 54 now best is 525..3 reps no suit just belt and chalk anyway strongmen get my vote on that note if anyone argue with you they are delusional....thank you for bringing this topic up front great job very smart.
Let’s not underrate Powerlifters. Strongman are of course great, but generally huge. Let’s use one of your examples, Jamal Browner has pulled a conventional deadlift at 431 Kg, at a body weight of 110 Kg, so about half the mass of Eddie or Thor. And yes he used straps but no suit. I’ll bet if he spent a couple of years focusing on only deadlift and eating 10,000 calories a day he would up there at about the 500 Kg region? You only used deadlift as a comparison, what about bench press, surely this is another example of upper body strength, however strongman don’t do this?
Strongman dont bench because their event are on their feet. How many elite powerlifters have a 400+ push press?
@@CeroAshura I know, this was mentioned as another comparison between the sports
I don’t get why people act like straps are cheating. If we wanted to see who has the best deadlift I feel like everyone should be allowed to strap and use a belt at the very least.
Also I think I would rather see people pull on a trap bar than pull sumo
Way to put into words what I have been thinking for a very long time when it comes to comparing strongman and powerlifting. Not just in regards to the deadlift but just in general. Strongman is just better.
I love it because I compare strongman to the working man I work logging and I've seen some pretty small guys literally move. Mountains but seen college football players not make it a day out there
Is high rep deadlifting good? i'm thinking of doing 10x3 but apparently anything over 3x8 is bad for back
Sumo may be a legit technique.....but it is by it's nature less impressive, as the ROM is less, the bar travels less
The push jerk thing is kinda true though
I don't think it should be allowed
It shouldn't because jerks aren't a press
@@vile8601 exactly its more about how fast you can get under the bar then how strong you are
Ask someone who really loves the sport of powerlifting. I have to say. I wish there was a new division where you only have to do close grip bench, high bar squat and a conventional deadlift. Is this gets rid of all the gimmicks in arguments for not being actually being valid. Unpopular opinion but I actually believe that's how it should be.
I got into the PL cult early on lifting. Then one day TH-cam suggested I watch the 2014 WSM finals. Strongman ever since.
All the best Strongman deadlifters pull in multiply though, with straps.
I think a major caveat here is that powerlifters generally aren't the tallest biggest dudes(or dudettes) strongman ARE generally the biggest tallest strongest in the room. Size matters in overall lifting capacity...
The weak point on a deadlift, after the grip, is the back. So the real test of leg strength is when the guy bends over and you put the weight on his hips-and the records for that are in the multiple thousands of pounds. Clearly an even better deadlift which should be less neglected.
I’m not either but I always love learning about all fitness arena’s. 🙏 Great Vid! 👏 Keep motivating and inspiring! 🙏🔥
Weird point: sumo isn’t specifically banned in any strongman feds rules.
Already listened to this one, but man it's a good one!
I was waiting for you to make a good point that explains why but it never came
Jamal browner has done 953.5 lbs conventional after a single training cycle of it. That was without straps as well, and we all know grip is a limiting factor for him. That was at a bodyweight of 240-250 lbs, I'd say if he bulked and trained for it he could easily be in the conversation for the record conventional deadlift, he just hit 500kg sumo as well. I think it's disrespectful to guys like him to say that powerlifters can't deadlift with the likes of strongmen.
Personally I don't care, strong is strong.
What is strong. What is life.
Length of bar and radius of plates(or tires) is significantly important. To me the standart deadlift is done with standard deadlift bar with Olympic plates.
Agreed. I didnt think the elephant bar should've counted when Rogue was offering the prize for the record at the Arnold
Everything you've spoken on is truth about the subject of Deadlifts I've always been a powerlifter I use to not like how the rules wanted you to perform pretty I hated that wish back then we were allowed to use straps like strongman.
Benny's 1015. Nothing else matters.
When it comes to suit, why are single ply and multiply powerlifters putting up strongman numbers? Because of straps? Nah…
I'm laughing my ass off at that introduction
I feel so much rage right now.
So strongmen live up to their name.
Ray Williams squatting 490kg/1080lbs in just a belt and sleeves walking that out and squatting it is way more impressive than a 500kg deadlift with figure 8 straps and a deadlift suit. It's mentally way harder to squat 1000+ than deadlift 1000+
Ray Williams is an absolute stud, but what is psychologically easier depends on the lifter and their own bag of strengths and weaknesses.
If you've got a few advantages and spent 1000s of hours under a barbell, you won't think twice about burying a max squat. The same lifter might get sweaty palms when the bar is lying dead on the floor staring at them.
Also, body fat greatly helps squatting ability where it tends to get in the way on deadlifts. Fat doesn't compress, so guys with big bellys benefit from the pressure out of the bottom. In practice, it is exactly like a built in squat suit. Wilkerson, Williams, Alhazov, etc..... If anyone of them woke up at under 25% body fat, their squatting performance would suffer greatly.
Any squatter who has gained and then lost waist circumference has experienced this.
Yeah it's ridiculous that nobody talks about rays raw squat over Eddie's equipped dradlift
I listened to this on the podcast, it was a good episode because a lot of your episodes are just you telling hyperspecialised newbie powerlifters they are doing it wrong, but this one was more fun.
speaking of deadlifts...
i can conventional pull 500ish
the other day i tried sumo from a 4 inch block. I got 6x 500. first time doing sumo in many years. I'm wondering, is this what deadlifting feels like for people with good leverages?
@@TheJackOfAllTrades777 lol, yeah thats the plan, I'm gonna get the straps on so I only need to use fingertips.
@@TheJackOfAllTrades777 bro I lock at at my balls even without sumo, sumo I can lock out 1/3 into my thighs 😎
IMO Strongman should make barbell squats and bench press regular events so that we can just forget about powerlifting altogether
Bromley needs to leave my Sumo cope alone😭
Could you do a video on why strongman athletes seem to be, on average - freaks of nature than in other strength sports ? Or Is it just a psychological thing
Natural selection and prestige incentives. As a tall and very strong guy, you have a shot at being a good strongman. People take that shot bc of the prestige. Just look at all the former powerlifters switching to strongman. How many strongmen have done the opposite? I know but maybe one if Benni counts. Sure, they dabble but none commit.
It's all about prestige and culture. Same reason that certain countries excel at some strength sports but not others.
@@MellonVegan I'm more asking why the nature of the sport of strongman is very suited towards taller, absolute freaks of nature. They all have to be able to deadlift 420kg+ to be competitive for example
The deadlift world record holder is both a strongman and a powerlifter. Notably, he’s a long way off holding the powerlifting deadlift record.
It’s almost like they’re different disciplines, and different people do better at different variations.
Yup. Some people are better at holding on to a thin metal bar with a hook grip. Turns out.... no one cares
@@AlexanderBromley I agree. If people want to suit and strap up, hitch their way to soft lockouts, that’s fine in my book. Do whatever you like.
I don’t think the “ad populum” argument is worth much though. Ultimately, it doesn’t really matter. We’re lifting heavy sticks in a recreational setting. It’s not that deep.
When talking about universal standards? Yes the..... "ad populum" .... (fucking christ)..... argument is actually worth quite a lot. I know youre too cool to bother with something as silly as comparing athletic performances..... but that's not how any sporting discussion works. Athletes/coaches/fans analyze performances into the ground to try and make meaningful statements about someone's capabilities. Pretty useful if you want to help someone compete across sports or shore up weak areas. The "its all different, dont compare, do you" bit is soooo lazy; it only comes from people who benefit from the lack of scrutiny and want to maintain some opinion without saying anything useful.
@@AlexanderBromley Trying to define a “universal standard” for the deadlift is foolish, because the powerlifting and strongman deadlift are too different. The rules, the equipment, the judging, the type of competitor that tends to do better at the deadlift within each sport… it’s like trying to determine a “universal standard” for Football. Is it Soccer? American Football? Gaelic Football? Aussie Football?
Attempts to compare powerlifting deadlifts to strongman deadlifts are like trying to compare raw vs equipped lifts in powerlifting, or comparing across the various deadlift disciplines in strongman. They’re too different to make an accurate comparison.
What we end up with is tribalist nonsense like “hur hur, strongman cool, powerlifting dumb”, or the reverse. It’s silly, and helps no-one.
I am. I lifted 3000lbs..... with a skid loader.
The only issue is some people sumo isnt hortible . Hell some peoples sumo isnt that much shorter of a rom then someone elses conventional . I agree on the straps being good for the deadlift but idk about suits it borders on the lameness of equipped lifting but its still impressive in its own right
Strongman is the king 🤴
"I am not going to address the sumo", goes and addresses the sumo... :D Really enjoyed this video! Strongman rules :)
today i droped the mixed grip going back to using straps as well as today is day one of superior deadlift plan A . IM SO EXCITED TO DO THIS PLAN AND IM LOOKING FORWARD TO SEING WHAT THIS LEADS TO . i have no desire to compete in powerlifting i box an do mma so if i tear a bicep i am fucked great video alex defintly made my opinion change
how did it go though?
Sumo deadlifters with straps own the deadlift.
Depends by what rules. Powerlifting rules, powerlifters win. Strongman rules, strongman wins. Hybrid, powerlifter probably wins. Multiple powerlifters sumopulling 500kg with straps now.
I have to some extent disagree. What alienates the public from powerlifting deadlifts is primarily the stances. What the public does not understand is the differences that equipment makes. The strongest deadlifter in the world is the guy who can conventional lock out the most weight on a stiff bar, with calibrated disks, from the floor, with no equipment outside of chalk and a belt. It’s the ultimate test of being physically capable of using just your body to do the gym lift that everyone else is doing. Strongmen don’t deadlift like that because there’s one or more hundred of pounds in the difference between what they are capable of doing between that and the style they do in strongman competitions.
You sound like a CrossFit person.
Move your pop guard about two inches away from your microphone. It isn't helping if there is contact. Your p's are definitely popping. Beyond that, great content. I totally agree with everything you said. Subscribed.
does he have a deadlift guide?
my opinion is that powerlifting would have better deadlifting if the dumb ass Federations would allow straps they’re not allowing the athlete to perform at their best and show what they can actually do I love both strongman and powerlifting but the restriction that powerlifting puts on their athletes just makes them under perform and there are certain elements in the strongman competitions that I do believe should be addressed and I guess fixed you could say
But both are amazing and fun to watch when the athletes are at 100% and not injured or hurt
Most of us powerlifters think highly of strongman competitors. We just powerlift because there is not enough strongman gyms and competitions near us. Powerlifting meets and gyms are much more common.
Sumo isnt better or worse than conventional, it’s different lift, im still confused on why its compared to conventional, they are in seperate lanes
World's Strongest Man, Mark Henry! Numbers still holding up from 1995 and dude is still getting paid in the wrestling world, currently with All Elite Wrestling.
What are the Kings of the Deadlift 105 and other weight classes pulling in powerlifting meets?
Who dethroned Lamar Gant?
Strongman puts more money, emphasis and value on the deadlift so of course strongmen would be the best deadlifters
Something I'm curious about is whether the statistics on strongman might be skewed by risk tolerance. Strongman has a much higher injury rate than power lifting does, and in general the best way to maximum performance is to get as close as possible to injury (which means crossing over that threshold by accident more often). This would be kind of like how all of the best race car drivers don't care if they die, because racecar drivers who care if they die leave bigger safety margins which costs them time/speed. Eddie Hall, if you look into his history, seems almost indifferent to his survival. If this is a trend-because, let's be honest, Strongman is practically designed to hurt people-it would be interesting to know how much it can explain strongmen's superior performance that these are the people who throw themselves against the wall and don't break, and that's how you get the strongest people (take the toughest people and push them the hardest). I'm not shit-talking here, this is a serious question, because it's always interesting to look at how self-selective pressures work.
This issue could use a bit more attention. Very few strongmen make a living doing just strongman competition, but it seems like you have to go to injury point regularly to make it to that level.The amateur strongmen and basically all powerlifters gotta go back to work on Monday, so destroying yourself isn't a good idea, not to mention in the USA there's a good chance you don't have great health insurance coverage for something like that, if you have insurance at all.
How much would strongmen be deadlifting if they had to squat to the extent that powerlifters do and then according to powerlifting rules.
I hate hook grip, and see no reason to use it, except for cleans and snatches.
It does use your thumb as a strap.
Yes you can hold the bar lower in the hand using hookgrip if you have the hand size for it
I'm a strongman. I still think the powerlifting WR is the WR. Imo, strongman pulls talent and builds strength really well but it doesn't test the very best deadlifter.
The world record is the world record
The American fridge is always spitting facts
Very very interesting. I'm an extremely amateur lifter who has never done proper powerlifting or strongman. My best sumo deadlift comes at 500lbs and my best conventional comes at 460lbs. I do those raw. When I try with straps I actually get worse aha. Probably because I don't use them very often
I deadlift without straps, If i use some straps , will i feel some changes?
@@borisrovchenko7747
You should try it.
This is very normal actually. You have to learn how to use the equipment effectively. You can't just expect to throw on a belt after 5 years of beltless training and hit a 20kg PR.
@Matt sorry for the hyperboles. I am very new to powerlifting training and amateur in regards to most serious goers.
I hate the whining about cheating across the board. You train to compete in the sport. It’s like saying it’s cheating to wear gloves as a wide receiver in football. If the sport allows it, it’s not cheating by definition
True story. In lifting, cheating gets used to mean 'not strict', which people think, by default, is worse. I used to see guys at the bar tell the international armwrestlers I knew that their competitive techniques weren't valid because they moved their bodies.
Shouldn't powerlifters put the least effort into the bench coz that puts the least on your total?
agree with the video, but i do believe jamal with practice could pull 1000+ with a suit and straps though
He's a freak for sure. Not many built like him. Ive seen his 1060 something sumo, but what's his best conventional?
@@AlexanderBromley not entirely sure, but i've seen him recently barely miss 950lbs at lockout due to grip, and the pull itself looked pretty easy
Real men grip a barbell with their bare hands
I thoroughly enjoyed that and agree 99%. Only thing is I thought World deadlift championships is on invite? If they take all comers wouldn't it make the show too long?
They’ll accept/invite anyone putting up good numbers. Like they were going to with Scandinavian guy Karu (can’t remember the name sorry).
If you have the numbers, they are eager to take you in. It's really easy to get in, you just have to network a bit and the biggest names in PL have always been able to do that. Few people are knocking down the door to get out of their comfort zone.
I can't think of a more appropriate place for a deadlift pr than a strong man contest
Oregon's Strongest Man... March 5... 👀🏋️♂️
haha good luck! I can't think of a better place to post results than on the Base Strength forum!
Ohhhhh shit, shots fired! lmao
Hi, am powerlifter, we don't view the deadlift as the "red-headed step child" at all, we view the bench that way actually, and the order of the lifts in powerlifting has nothing to do with how we view them. We have the bench in the middle because doing two upper body lifts at maximal effort (very important in your comparison here) would not yield the highest total. The objective is the highest total relative to bodyweight. The reason powerlifters dont deadlift as much as strongmen is because they are overwhelmingly much smaller than strongmen, when you look at who is lifting a higher percentage of bodyweight in the lift, its powerlifters by far. Overall this was a pretty poor argument. To say powerlifters don't value the deadlift just shows willful ignorance on your part, its the favorite lift of most powerlifters. Overall this came off as you shitting on powerlifting and not really understanding the objective of the sport.
Powerlifting is a weight class sport the best powerlifter is the one with the highest coefficient. Thats why Atwood and Haack are considered the goats. Dont twist it.
As someone who loves both sports; you hit the nail on the head here.
I bet you're fun at parties
@@AlexanderBromley this isn't a party, this is a youtube video containing a discussion you chose to start.
I reject your assertion as to what 'powerlifting is about' or that it somehow reaches a level of complexity that the purpose can be misunderstood in the first place. The objective of the sport is to lift more weight than the other person in your class; wilks is a way to normalize performances across weight classes (and many reject that it does that well, since it biases heavily towards light females). Few know of Gasparyan (highest wilks ever), but everyone knows Maddox and Bell. Because weight wins.
We could talk about classes and I could mention the numerous women in SM who pull over 600 (including Lovelace who did it at 140) and I could mention how they would similarly trounce your favorite PL pullers in any implement or rep range. But I agree, Strongman is a big man's sport so I narrowed my focus to the big men; the entire video focused exclusively on the biggest pulls regardless of class. Novikov pulled 1k under 300lbs and another dozen pulled it weighing less than Dan Bell did when he shattered the PL record (only Hall, Thor and Shaw skew the body weight numbers). But it doesn't matter because your weight class obsession isn't relevant to who the biggest pullers are any more than it's relevant to who the fastest man is. It's another annoying feature of a hobby designed to give as many 1st place trophies out as possible and the people who behave like run-of-the-mill sports discussion causes them personal injury.
Since this is my video (and because I'm having a GREAT time!) I offically label this comment section a party.
@@AlexanderBromley 1) Thanks for agreeing with me as to what the objective of the sport is, if you read my original post more carefully you'll see that I said that. 2) Basically everyone who competes in powerlifting at a high level knows who Marianna Gasparyan is, actually. The reason the world doesn't is because she doesn't have a big social media presence because she is not fluent in English. 3) this wasn't a debate about who the biggest pullers are its about what sport owns the deadlift, there are no cpaps in the jungle either and your opinion is just as subjective as anyone elses especially regarding sumo vs hitching, multiply deadlift suits and straps lol. I didnt say powerlifting owned it, I simply said you're misrepresenting the sport in your video. 4) Calling someone weight class obsessed for pointing out that powerlifting is a weight class sport and that first place overall is given out on the basis of coefficient and not total weight is a disingenuous coping mechanism. Do better. 5) If sumo were universally easier, I'd do it. As you can see, I do not.
Nothing tops benni's 1015 raw
Amen
If you had to hire powerlifters or strongmen to move a bunch of heavy boulders and logs and other heavy shit, across a field without machines, you would choose the ones who display the most strength, power, and stamina.
Not powerlifters.