Honestly it feels like there's a TON of room for optimization here. Guts is a really easy ability to abuse if you don't heal a status condition that was inflicted on you, and heal up with potions instead. There were a lot of points in the run where you ran into trouble with status like Toxic and Sleep, but being inflicted with a different status gives a pseudo immunity to them. Out of the different status conditions, burn is the best one to be inflicted with when you have guts, since you take the minimum damage each turn (1/16, compared to poison's 1/8 and toxic's increasing damage), and you don't have to deal with the poison damage ticks in the overworld. Consistently being inflicted with this can be tricky but you ended up getting it a few times throughout the run. Using standard poison early on may have been a good way to deal with Onix quickly (easily induced by the many Weedle found in Viridian Forest). You can also find wild Growlithe on route 7 to induce burn via ember, but if you were playing Leafgreen instead you'd be able to use Vulpix instead, who knows will-o-wisp at level 17. Apart from that, there's a couple trainers on the S. S. Anne, a trainer on route 11, and a trainer on route 6 with a full team of fire types, which would be a much more reliable way of getting the status. These are pretty easy to get to before surge. You also didn't really make much use of dig or thief throughout the run apart from using dig against surge. Perhaps replacing them afterwards would help a lot? You mentioned substitute a lot but there's other good options you could use too. Quick Attack became pretty irrelevant too since you outspeed everything with your level advantage. It only really came out when you were paralyzed and needed to secure a kill. Since abusing the damage buff from guts means you wouldn't get paralyzed, you'd be able to fit other more useful stuff in its place. A set of Return, Shadow Ball. Blizzard/Ice Beam and Hyper Beam would work well once you can get your hands on them. - Return is just reliable for everything. No sense in not using it. - Shadow Ball gets boosted by Guts and helps knock out psychic types reliably. It's also a perfect option for Agatha's ghost types. - Blizzard/Ice Beam is important for Rhydon at the end since it has a normal resist and a huge defense stat. - Hyper Beam works great for finishing off the Ace of Gym Leaders and your rivals, since the extra 75 base power compared to return is often enough to secure a KO when you're burned/poisoned. (recharge turn is irrelevant if the opponent's whole team is finished) I could also see a reality in which you make use of Iron Tail for its use against Lorelei's whole team, but the lower accuracy makes me feel it's not worth it (especially since you're already spending lots of money on rocket TMs)
little thing to note, it was until Gen 7 that Burn started to deal less damage than regular poison. So, for activating Guts during gen 3 to 6, Toxic Poison is often considered the safest option for competitive, as the first two turns it inflicts less combined damage compared to Regular Poison and Burn (first turn of toxic deals 1/16, and the second turn deals 1/8, same as Burn and Poison).
@@davidjimenez3822 oh that's weird! Bulbapedia threw me off cause burn dealt 1/16 in gen 1. didn't see they changed it to 1/8 in gen 2. burn is still probably better for these runs so overworld movement is faster, but it isn't as critical as it was before.
Toxic orb vs flame orb was more of a role thing, and flame orb was generally preferred as Guts users work really well as wall breakers rather than pivots which toxic orb worked better for as in that case (and that case alone) it would deal less residual damage
DO NOT look too closely into the list of times Scott provides at 36:22 unless you want the results of multiple future videos spoiled. (He doesn't spoil anything in the audio, so you could listen). Skip instead to 36:38 to see it's current ranking in the tierlist.
There are so many times throughout the run where going into battles pre-statused would have made things so much faster. I think Raticate can clear the game much faster than it did; I'm really curious to see how a potential redo would go using Guts to its full potential.
It's substantially faster than having to spend a bunch of unnecessary time training. Don't underestimate how easily Guts can snap the game in half. @@bobjoe3492
@sparkypikachu7776 and now imagine doing that every time after he heals for important battles. When minutes matter needing to go out of your way frequently adds up after a 2 hour run
I think taking full advantage of guts is key to optimization. If you're able to pre-poison Raticate before the League and other major fights, it would fly through this whole play-through
Just finished my Raticate solo run of FireRed so I came to check out how yours compared. And turns out we beat the champion at the exact same level! I also found that fight to be extremely frustrating, with just barely missing KOs on Pidgeot, Exeggutor and Rhydon at lower levels. Seems like 85 is just what Raticate needs to make that fight doable. I found the rest of the game to be a breeze though, especially since I pre-poisoned for most of the major battles
Against Rival Six™ , you mention that Charizard "resists" Ice Beam. It doesn't, but rather it's neutral to it. You were at -3 in Attack, so surely Ice Beam would have done more damage than Return in that fight.
I'd like to mention that you can get more berries to spawn in Berry Forest on FireRed/LeafGreen, after taking 1,500 steps. Unfortunately, that locks getting extra berries down to a later point in your playthrough.
I know its a bit of a broken record probably, but Substitute would have massively changed the texture of the entire Champion fight. It blocks the Pidgeot's Featherdance, it blocks the Rhydon's Scary Face, it blocks Exeggutor's Sleep Powder, and it blocks Gyarados' Intimidate. That with Blizzard and honestly probably Double-Edge would likely give you the power to get through the rest of the fight without much difficulty. You only need to keep your Substitute alive and your HP well enough for Charizard after all. I think I've said this before though, but wow is FRLG just brutal for physical Pokemon. Gen I feels arguably super biased towards physical Pokemon thanks to Swords Dance being a TM as well as strong physical moves but FRLG swings so far in the other direction, especially when compared to Emerald.
primeape gets amazing coverage in gen 3 with access to rock slide and EQ plus decent fighting stab like brick break and cross chop. even karate chop early game gives you a reliable option that wasn't there in gen 1.
I've never properly used the chunky speedster myself (aside from a Nuzlocke run wherein the poor Raticate didn't last long) but he is one of my younger brother's favourites. He has quite a move-pool to play around with, an good speed plus attack is a nifty enough combination for me to expect good results here. 0:34 - Oooh, that is true; Fire Red might prove a different story. On the plus side, a naturally learned Dark type attack and the option of a physical hitting Ghost move (Shadow Ball TM) means Psychic types should be far less of a threat. 2:51 - Hilarious picturing the little purple rat that is Rattata just chomping down on the hard Geodude... and winning the outcome. Still weird that Rattata didn't learn Bite naturally back in Gen 1, 2 and 3. 5:35 - Yeah, unsurprised that Hyper Fang was the best option. I did wonder if the the Dark type Thief would be better for a second but a quick look showed that Starmie has just as much Special Defence as it does Physical Defence. 8:27 - Happy to hear that Dudley overcame his self-destructive ways. We were all worried about him, and he seems to have some shakes of significant magnitude as an after-effect but the recovery he has made is incredible. Good on you Hiker Dudley. 11:20 - An even worse for Erika, her Pokémon's Effect Spore boosted your Rattatat's Attack stat thanks to Guts. 16:52 - The CPU sure love getting all five hits of their 2-5 multi-hit moves. Shame us players rarely get such fortune. Nice to see Rattatat hang in there and win though. 18:52 - Blaine shall be bested by your soggy rat! 23:00 - Your rival had a solid strategy here... too bad it backfired for them horribly. 25:02 - That unfortunately seems to be a consistent story for Rattatat here. You keep getting situations where you are just barely not knocking them out. 28:02 - I feel sorry for this Gengar at this point. He's not had a single unfrozen moment in this fight. It'd probably take too much time to try and get the Shadow Ball TM from the Game Corner, but I wonder if said physical oriented move might overall be better than having Ice Beam on your move-set. 29:30 - Never mind; the Ice Beam certainly made it's pricey purchase worthy with the swift demolition of Lance's team. 35:36 - If you were going to opt for the low accuracy Blizzard in your move-set, why didn't you go with your already available Ice Beam and Thunder TM? It feels like it would give you similar benefits whilst also saving you the time spent trying to get the money for the Game Corner.
So... when does Raticate get an ability to make it super effective against Rock and Steel types? That would be a fun thing to see; thanks for the interesting trivia.@@RoninCatholic
4:45 An unevolved pokemon gets boosted experience if it is beyond its evolution level, so it would actually level up faster. It does stay the same growth rate, though.
10:18 Because most trainers use common non-threatening mons like rats and birds, which are suitable for low-tier/less experienced trainers. They tend to be fast little critters. There aren't many intimidating (high ATK) pokemon yet. Also, there are lots of hikers with mons made of rock (high DEF) in caves. Fat-looking "cute" or blob-like (high HP) pokemon are also seen often (Caterpie, Grimer etc). 19:02 Rain Dance's original name is Rain Prayer or something AFAIK, so it makes sense it's intelligent enough to learn it. 24:02 IKR, electric types suck here with all the ground types.
Ratatta is one of those pokémon that's incredibly difficult to use in game due to being guts-reliant. While Facade isn't a main-game move, Boosting Return and Shadow Ball by 50% allows the rat to ignore the issues of low attack.
The reason Giovanni has two Rhyhorns instead of Rhydons is because, I imagine, the Champion has his own Rhydon and they wanted his team to seem more impressive?
Ah, Raticate, I get it's a Normal Type and thus it 'has the moves', but looking at everything it does get, including Egg Moves even though they're not relevant here, it gets... Wild what it can learn.
While it restricts you a whole moveslot for the League, what about using Substitute? For the Champion, it gives you an immunity to Feather Dance, Intimidate, Scary Face and Sleep Powder. It also gives you completely free setup against Agatha's first Gengar (its only offensive move is Shadow Punch, so it can't touch you with a Substitute up), replacing Dig which you really didn't need.
In regards to your question about Giovanni's team having an ace Rhyhorn, I can only guess that they thought he was too difficult in Gen I and wanted to weaken his Pokemon, but didn't think either of the Nidos should loose their final forms since it would make one look too weak and the other too strong.
I know it sounds really dumb but I always believed the theory that the reason Giovanni doesn't have his ace Rhydon is because your rival steals it for his first champion team.
8:39 Koga as well! Dodge the self destruct from weezing at the end, you win Is there any other gen1 Pokémon trainers that use SD or explosion when its their last Pokémon
Fair enough, it gets outclassed pretty quick. But it's actually not at all bad for a route 1 Mon. Good speed, hyper fang, TMs, decent attack to boot. It can easily stay on a team till the end. I'd say better so than Pidgey line actually. He's also a cute boi Imo. Esp chonke Raticate. (Add Guts to it, and solid Mon!) I always wished it got ExtremeSpeed though. Its make sense and signature moves tend not be isolated to single monses for long so Arcanine could defo share it
Some optimization possibilities for Agatha (Shadow Ball!) and generally (Thunderbolt). Lots of money, yes, but I wonder if Shadow Ball would make Agatha more consistent - I agree with your comments on how lucky it was, but a win is a win :) Great series, I love FRLG and have been really loving these videos
From the footage shown it felt like Rest wasn't explored thoroughly enough again the Champion, the Gyarados seemed to be doing low enough damage that healing there could be viable. Sorry if it was tried out more extensively in unused footage. ^_^"
Wait, wouldn't Ice Beam be neutral on the Zard because it gained flying? Either way, surprised by how bad the damage range on Beam was, but I guess that's why return spam is the meta :D
Happy to see my favorite rat getting some limelight in the gen where it's at its strongest. If you took another crack at it, shadow ball gives you a fantastic option against agatha and the late game psychic types. Thunderbolt (or thunder) could also take the place of ice beam to help with the pigeot and Lorelei. I'd strongly argue that super fang actually has a lot of potential. Return was a two hit against a lot of key pokemon, but using super fang turn 1 would keep them out of healing range, and paired with a special move gives you a good option for cconsistent damage when you've been featherdanced. Also, just wanted to mention it for fun toxic+super fang+protect+1 turn of waiting with dig is a guaranteed 4 hit on anything :)
I ran the numbers, and it looks like the IVs are good in this video, so the optimization for the Rattata-line would be to use Guts optimally. Maybe Substitube should be on the moveset as well. Looking forward to the follow-up.
I'm only here to comment for the algorithm as I've seen it before! Glad other people have got to watch and I liked reading though their comments actually
My man scott i knew you was going to a Raticate video i cant wait to see how it does i made this comment before i started the video I know I'm in for a treat😊
I know the smart thing to do with Guts is to pre load with a status and have the bonus + status immunity for a whole fight, but I do love moments where it is just organically an Uno Reverse Trap Card.
I think why people conflate the healing room in the Gen 1 and Gen 3 versions is the NPC says the same thing. So it's easy for them to occupy the same mental space in the player's mind.
I think a Sitrus Berry really would have helped against Blaine. Bulbapedia says you can grab one on Route 6. In the two losses you had before picking Rain Dance, that extra bit of healing would've helped to either counteract the burn damage or counter the damage you took from Fire Blast.
You mention the growth rates not changing. However, in later generations, there is a boost if a Pokémon is unevolved pass the level it should have evolved.
Nice video as always! Like other people mentioned I feel like the room for improvement is huge for Raticate. Abusing guts more would be the obvious choice but I wonder how useful the rain dance thunder combo could be for the elite four and champion
You should watch how Nuzlocke contact creators use guys Raticate. It seems almost broken. I can totally see how a solo challenge run is different or even spending the time trying to get statuses may be bad but I still think worth checking
Love the content as always but please redo this and abuse guts as its broken. Im not sure if sleeptalk is available as a tm but its worth looking into. Regardless, there's numerous quick ways to poison or burn raticate throughout the run. Then you just use hp restoring items to maintain the status. Pp restoring items need to be managed efficiently too as visits to the pokemon centre mean you have to waste time getting statused vs a wild Pokémon again 😅. Thank scotty for the content 😊
What if you grabbed the leftovers item and combined it with burn. I'm pretty sure you can get it from the snorlax or with the item finder where the snorlax is
I wonder if using Protect against the Rhydon would discourage it from using Scary Face in the same way it seems to discourage the Pidgeot from Featherdancing.
I feel that they may have downgraded Giovanni's Rhydon to a Rhyhorn because it spoils the "surprise" of the Rival having a Rhydon, and they didn't want that overlap. Honestly though, they should have let him keep his Kangaskahn. When I think of Giovanni that's the Pokemon that comes to mind anyhow and it ties in a touch thematically (with him also being a parent).
When you forgot the Full Restores in your second League attempt, you should have taken the black out and reduced the extra training - it would have the same effect but would be faster.
Giovanni doesn't have a Rhydon because Rhydon is an exclusive of Blue... for some reason. Literally no other trainer has one. I think possibly in Gen 2 as well
Disregarding stats and move pools. Are single stage pokemon faster than multi stage pokemon by nature? What I mean by that the multistage pokemon have a evolution screen that you need to press b to cancel which adds time vs pokemon that don't evolve.
I don't hate how you went about this run as a first run, but you will do a lot better when you start using the Guts ability to the fullest. It doesn't have all the tools it gets in emerald (eg - facade and silk scarf) but guts stab Return should see you through a lot of the game, especially as Raticate is quite fast.
No time in firered/leaf green. Reason for not having berries. Which is nice, because once the batteries go dry you don’t have time based events anyway in RSE.
As for why Giovanni has the Rhyhorn as his Ace, I think I know the reason. Back in the day most developer teams were very small and there weren't dedicated specialists. Meaning no one did much playtesting, it wasn't common back in those days and most of the game design decisions were made sort of on the spot and left there once implemented, without thinking about it's place in the wider game. This is why the games balance and design in Pokemon was so bad until Gen 4. Most of the time they had less than 10 people actually working on the game for a year or two until release. So, little is actually thought through and many things that would nowadays be caught during the Alpha stage are left inside. This includes weird Pokemon choices during bossfights or how many Pokemon that you could only get later in the game are way too weak for their placements or how nothing had a good movepool, all while like a fith of all moves were exclusives. This is why Giovanni has two Ryhorns instead of Rydons. They likely planned his team once and then never looked back or checked if it fit with the overall balance
@@Sunaki1000 if that’s what they cared about and easy solution would have been to just give him Golem. But like it said, they did little play testing outside the conceptual stage back in the day. That’s as an example why like a third of all types kinda didn’t exist. Like there were almost no fighting, dragon, ghost, bug or rock moves and the ones that did exist were either unusably bad or had no logical distribution. The ghost and dragon types existed for a single Pokémon each, many Pokémon didn’t even get access to STAB moves. Why does the second Gym leader have a Starmie and why did the 7th have 2 Pokémon once evolved and once not, when Magmar existed Trust me, little thought into how the overall game would be experienced was put into the game, because that just didn’t really exist.
@@frankwest5388 Dragon and Ghost was designed as special and rare type. The overflow of Poison, Wather, and Normal was to much. But they fixed at least Poison in every followin gen.
@@frankwest5388 And I think your Point is valid, but oversimplifies things. Pokemon war pretty new as a Concept. It played more like a old Final Fantasy, whit Special Moves and TMs as this special rare Resource. Or Voltorb as a Item Monster like the Mimics in Dark Souls, and fake Snake Rupys in Zelda. It took a while until it found its own identity, and removed what didnt work. And some is just storytelling over Gameplay. I guess Bruno had two Onix, cause A hes a better Brook, and shows how fare you came, and B his Team might have been choosen before Onix Stats where Determined by the Developers. Same whit some Elite 4 Trainers in Hoenn, and Sinnoh I assume. The Typings and Boss Pokemon where choosen before the Pokedex was finished.
would it be possible to have moves show their base power while outside of battle? i find myself wondering base power sometimes but there isnt an indicator
The cap at 252 started in Gen 6, before then you can go up to 255 and waste 3 EVs per maxed stat at level 100 because the 252nd EV is the last possibility useful one. Scott is grabbing the values directly from RAM.
Havw you tried inflicting Poison, or later Burn for the entire Playtrought, or at least every major Battle and keep your Pokemon healthy whit Potions? I dont think thats impossible.
Route 22 is a better pre-Brock training route than Viridian forest. For only 3.4% less XP per fight on average you get atk/speed EV instead of hp/def/speed, everything is easy to OHKO, and there's no annoying pikachu with high speed and its annoying paralysis chance.
Did you try getting poisoned before brock? Prolly coulda done it much earlier than 18 w/ poison ratatata. Honestly i feel like you did not abuse guts nearly enough
Honestly it feels like there's a TON of room for optimization here. Guts is a really easy ability to abuse if you don't heal a status condition that was inflicted on you, and heal up with potions instead. There were a lot of points in the run where you ran into trouble with status like Toxic and Sleep, but being inflicted with a different status gives a pseudo immunity to them.
Out of the different status conditions, burn is the best one to be inflicted with when you have guts, since you take the minimum damage each turn (1/16, compared to poison's 1/8 and toxic's increasing damage), and you don't have to deal with the poison damage ticks in the overworld. Consistently being inflicted with this can be tricky but you ended up getting it a few times throughout the run. Using standard poison early on may have been a good way to deal with Onix quickly (easily induced by the many Weedle found in Viridian Forest).
You can also find wild Growlithe on route 7 to induce burn via ember, but if you were playing Leafgreen instead you'd be able to use Vulpix instead, who knows will-o-wisp at level 17. Apart from that, there's a couple trainers on the S. S. Anne, a trainer on route 11, and a trainer on route 6 with a full team of fire types, which would be a much more reliable way of getting the status. These are pretty easy to get to before surge.
You also didn't really make much use of dig or thief throughout the run apart from using dig against surge. Perhaps replacing them afterwards would help a lot? You mentioned substitute a lot but there's other good options you could use too.
Quick Attack became pretty irrelevant too since you outspeed everything with your level advantage. It only really came out when you were paralyzed and needed to secure a kill. Since abusing the damage buff from guts means you wouldn't get paralyzed, you'd be able to fit other more useful stuff in its place.
A set of Return, Shadow Ball. Blizzard/Ice Beam and Hyper Beam would work well once you can get your hands on them.
- Return is just reliable for everything. No sense in not using it.
- Shadow Ball gets boosted by Guts and helps knock out psychic types reliably. It's also a perfect option for Agatha's ghost types.
- Blizzard/Ice Beam is important for Rhydon at the end since it has a normal resist and a huge defense stat.
- Hyper Beam works great for finishing off the Ace of Gym Leaders and your rivals, since the extra 75 base power compared to return is often enough to secure a KO when you're burned/poisoned. (recharge turn is irrelevant if the opponent's whole team is finished)
I could also see a reality in which you make use of Iron Tail for its use against Lorelei's whole team, but the lower accuracy makes me feel it's not worth it (especially since you're already spending lots of money on rocket TMs)
Holy analysis. You’re a fucking professor. This guy is def a Pokémon champ
little thing to note, it was until Gen 7 that Burn started to deal less damage than regular poison. So, for activating Guts during gen 3 to 6, Toxic Poison is often considered the safest option for competitive, as the first two turns it inflicts less combined damage compared to Regular Poison and Burn (first turn of toxic deals 1/16, and the second turn deals 1/8, same as Burn and Poison).
@@davidjimenez3822 oh that's weird! Bulbapedia threw me off cause burn dealt 1/16 in gen 1. didn't see they changed it to 1/8 in gen 2. burn is still probably better for these runs so overworld movement is faster, but it isn't as critical as it was before.
Toxic orb vs flame orb was more of a role thing, and flame orb was generally preferred as Guts users work really well as wall breakers rather than pivots which toxic orb worked better for as in that case (and that case alone) it would deal less residual damage
Regular poison is easier to get and less so it cost less time in the long run. Especially after getting Fly
DO NOT look too closely into the list of times Scott provides at 36:22 unless you want the results of multiple future videos spoiled. (He doesn't spoil anything in the audio, so you could listen). Skip instead to 36:38 to see it's current ranking in the tierlist.
There are so many times throughout the run where going into battles pre-statused would have made things so much faster. I think Raticate can clear the game much faster than it did; I'm really curious to see how a potential redo would go using Guts to its full potential.
Getting pre-statused takes time though and isn't readily available
It's substantially faster than having to spend a bunch of unnecessary time training. Don't underestimate how easily Guts can snap the game in half. @@bobjoe3492
@@bobjoe3492yes, it is? Fly to early route with poison sting, growlithe on one route, yh there's a ton of ways to get it it's not that tough..
@sparkypikachu7776 and now imagine doing that every time after he heals for important battles. When minutes matter needing to go out of your way frequently adds up after a 2 hour run
@@bobjoe3492You wouldn't need to heal as often when you're one-shotting instead of 2 or 3 (with healing)
Raticate after gen3 is a BEAST, Guts+Facade is a crazy combo
99% of my non-thematic nuzlockes have a Raticate pre poisoned for this
No Facade in FR/LG main game.
Emerald will be fun
I think taking full advantage of guts is key to optimization. If you're able to pre-poison Raticate before the League and other major fights, it would fly through this whole play-through
A very slept on pokemon that people are finally starting to wise up to a little bit. I think it'll do pretty dang good
Dang.
Just finished my Raticate solo run of FireRed so I came to check out how yours compared. And turns out we beat the champion at the exact same level! I also found that fight to be extremely frustrating, with just barely missing KOs on Pidgeot, Exeggutor and Rhydon at lower levels. Seems like 85 is just what Raticate needs to make that fight doable. I found the rest of the game to be a breeze though, especially since I pre-poisoned for most of the major battles
You could not fathom how much I enjoy having your videos running on the side while playing something other screen. A bliss.
Against Rival Six™ , you mention that Charizard "resists" Ice Beam. It doesn't, but rather it's neutral to it. You were at -3 in Attack, so surely Ice Beam would have done more damage than Return in that fight.
Nerdddddddddddddddd
Yeah Scott's to used to Gen 1 lmao
If you watched the video you would have seen he did also use Ice Beam. It did about the same damage as -3 return.
He forgot charizard was part flying
He also made this mistake in a video a couple days ago. Pretty sure these vids were recorded months ago though so he could have 1 vid a day
I'd like to mention that you can get more berries to spawn in Berry Forest on FireRed/LeafGreen, after taking 1,500 steps. Unfortunately, that locks getting extra berries down to a later point in your playthrough.
But once you start the initial sevii islands quests you can't leave until you complete a couple quests. Big time investment
@@bobjoe3492 true! it doesn't really fit in well with a speedrunning challenge.
I know its a bit of a broken record probably, but Substitute would have massively changed the texture of the entire Champion fight. It blocks the Pidgeot's Featherdance, it blocks the Rhydon's Scary Face, it blocks Exeggutor's Sleep Powder, and it blocks Gyarados' Intimidate. That with Blizzard and honestly probably Double-Edge would likely give you the power to get through the rest of the fight without much difficulty. You only need to keep your Substitute alive and your HP well enough for Charizard after all.
I think I've said this before though, but wow is FRLG just brutal for physical Pokemon. Gen I feels arguably super biased towards physical Pokemon thanks to Swords Dance being a TM as well as strong physical moves but FRLG swings so far in the other direction, especially when compared to Emerald.
primeape gets amazing coverage in gen 3 with access to rock slide and EQ plus decent fighting stab like brick break and cross chop. even karate chop early game gives you a reliable option that wasn't there in gen 1.
I've never properly used the chunky speedster myself (aside from a Nuzlocke run wherein the poor Raticate didn't last long) but he is one of my younger brother's favourites. He has quite a move-pool to play around with, an good speed plus attack is a nifty enough combination for me to expect good results here.
0:34 - Oooh, that is true; Fire Red might prove a different story. On the plus side, a naturally learned Dark type attack and the option of a physical hitting Ghost move (Shadow Ball TM) means Psychic types should be far less of a threat.
2:51 - Hilarious picturing the little purple rat that is Rattata just chomping down on the hard Geodude... and winning the outcome. Still weird that Rattata didn't learn Bite naturally back in Gen 1, 2 and 3.
5:35 - Yeah, unsurprised that Hyper Fang was the best option. I did wonder if the the Dark type Thief would be better for a second but a quick look showed that Starmie has just as much Special Defence as it does Physical Defence.
8:27 - Happy to hear that Dudley overcame his self-destructive ways. We were all worried about him, and he seems to have some shakes of significant magnitude as an after-effect but the recovery he has made is incredible. Good on you Hiker Dudley.
11:20 - An even worse for Erika, her Pokémon's Effect Spore boosted your Rattatat's Attack stat thanks to Guts.
16:52 - The CPU sure love getting all five hits of their 2-5 multi-hit moves. Shame us players rarely get such fortune. Nice to see Rattatat hang in there and win though.
18:52 - Blaine shall be bested by your soggy rat!
23:00 - Your rival had a solid strategy here... too bad it backfired for them horribly.
25:02 - That unfortunately seems to be a consistent story for Rattatat here. You keep getting situations where you are just barely not knocking them out.
28:02 - I feel sorry for this Gengar at this point. He's not had a single unfrozen moment in this fight. It'd probably take too much time to try and get the Shadow Ball TM from the Game Corner, but I wonder if said physical oriented move might overall be better than having Ice Beam on your move-set.
29:30 - Never mind; the Ice Beam certainly made it's pricey purchase worthy with the swift demolition of Lance's team.
35:36 - If you were going to opt for the low accuracy Blizzard in your move-set, why didn't you go with your already available Ice Beam and Thunder TM? It feels like it would give you similar benefits whilst also saving you the time spent trying to get the money for the Game Corner.
Normal rats in real life are known to chew through steel, so if any critter's teeth should be neutral effective against rock types it's rodents 🤔
So... when does Raticate get an ability to make it super effective against Rock and Steel types? That would be a fun thing to see; thanks for the interesting trivia.@@RoninCatholic
I know there's the damage over time consideration, but would Ratatta be able to beat Brock at a lower level if it went into the battle while poisoned?
4:45 An unevolved pokemon gets boosted experience if it is beyond its evolution level, so it would actually level up faster. It does stay the same growth rate, though.
*In Gen VI and onwards
Kanto is a weird place. The pokemon don't lay eggs, berries can't grow. I suppose it is designed on a polluted city, so it makes sense actually.
Wow, I did not expect to get slapped by my memory. When I was a kid I thought Rattata was "Rattatat" 😂
10:18 Because most trainers use common non-threatening mons like rats and birds, which are suitable for low-tier/less experienced trainers. They tend to be fast little critters.
There aren't many intimidating (high ATK) pokemon yet.
Also, there are lots of hikers with mons made of rock (high DEF) in caves.
Fat-looking "cute" or blob-like (high HP) pokemon are also seen often (Caterpie, Grimer etc).
19:02 Rain Dance's original name is Rain Prayer or something AFAIK, so it makes sense it's intelligent enough to learn it.
24:02 IKR, electric types suck here with all the ground types.
Ratatta is one of those pokémon that's incredibly difficult to use in game due to being guts-reliant. While Facade isn't a main-game move, Boosting Return and Shadow Ball by 50% allows the rat to ignore the issues of low attack.
hell yeah, second favorite pokemon from gen 1! didn't know you started doing Fire Red, looking forward to the potential Farfetch'd run!
I CAN NOT believe that facade is blocked by the post game. I was really hoping to see some RAT POWER (tm)
dudley should be the magnitude hiker.
RAT POWER
The reason Giovanni has two Rhyhorns instead of Rhydons is because, I imagine, the Champion has his own Rhydon and they wanted his team to seem more impressive?
dont u wish there was an ability that lowers special attack, like intimidate?
Yes
Dig seems deadweight after Lt. Surge.
These fire red videos are so incredible. Probably my favorite series from you now.
Ah, Raticate, I get it's a Normal Type and thus it 'has the moves', but looking at everything it does get, including Egg Moves even though they're not relevant here, it gets... Wild what it can learn.
While it restricts you a whole moveslot for the League, what about using Substitute? For the Champion, it gives you an immunity to Feather Dance, Intimidate, Scary Face and Sleep Powder. It also gives you completely free setup against Agatha's first Gengar (its only offensive move is Shadow Punch, so it can't touch you with a Substitute up), replacing Dig which you really didn't need.
In regards to your question about Giovanni's team having an ace Rhyhorn, I can only guess that they thought he was too difficult in Gen I and wanted to weaken his Pokemon, but didn't think either of the Nidos should loose their final forms since it would make one look too weak and the other too strong.
I know it sounds really dumb but I always believed the theory that the reason Giovanni doesn't have his ace Rhydon is because your rival steals it for his first champion team.
Against Surge you can see the Guts Boost. 99% with 120 Power Dig, 80% with Guts boosted 60 Power Quick Attack
I called it!! I knew Raticate was coming after Pidgeot and now after this Butterfree & Beedrill will probably be next
8:39 Koga as well! Dodge the self destruct from weezing at the end, you win
Is there any other gen1 Pokémon trainers that use SD or explosion when its their last Pokémon
Ratata is one of my fav mons, I always felt bad for it because everyone else hated it 😂
Fair enough, it gets outclassed pretty quick. But it's actually not at all bad for a route 1 Mon. Good speed, hyper fang, TMs, decent attack to boot. It can easily stay on a team till the end. I'd say better so than Pidgey line actually. He's also a cute boi Imo. Esp chonke Raticate. (Add Guts to it, and solid Mon!) I always wished it got ExtremeSpeed though. Its make sense and signature moves tend not be isolated to single monses for long so Arcanine could defo share it
@@SombreroPharoah well said brother 🙂
Some optimization possibilities for Agatha (Shadow Ball!) and generally (Thunderbolt). Lots of money, yes, but I wonder if Shadow Ball would make Agatha more consistent - I agree with your comments on how lucky it was, but a win is a win :)
Great series, I love FRLG and have been really loving these videos
I wrote this before you got thunderbolt lol
From the footage shown it felt like Rest wasn't explored thoroughly enough again the Champion, the Gyarados seemed to be doing low enough damage that healing there could be viable.
Sorry if it was tried out more extensively in unused footage. ^_^"
Spoiler warning! If you want to avoid spoilers, do not look at the leaderboard shown after Raticate clocks in with its final time!
Wait, wouldn't Ice Beam be neutral on the Zard because it gained flying?
Either way, surprised by how bad the damage range on Beam was, but I guess that's why return spam is the meta :D
Happy to see my favorite rat getting some limelight in the gen where it's at its strongest. If you took another crack at it, shadow ball gives you a fantastic option against agatha and the late game psychic types. Thunderbolt (or thunder) could also take the place of ice beam to help with the pigeot and Lorelei. I'd strongly argue that super fang actually has a lot of potential. Return was a two hit against a lot of key pokemon, but using super fang turn 1 would keep them out of healing range, and paired with a special move gives you a good option for cconsistent damage when you've been featherdanced. Also, just wanted to mention it for fun toxic+super fang+protect+1 turn of waiting with dig is a guaranteed 4 hit on anything :)
I ran the numbers, and it looks like the IVs are good in this video, so the optimization for the Rattata-line would be to use Guts optimally. Maybe Substitube should be on the moveset as well. Looking forward to the follow-up.
Yay Raticate on Thanksgiving! Happy Thanksgiving from Florida love your vids man!
i hope that whoever finds this video enjoys 30 minutes of *RAT POWER!*
I'm only here to comment for the algorithm as I've seen it before! Glad other people have got to watch and I liked reading though their comments actually
You could have waited for that gyrados to hit itself in confusion with thrash
Super nostalgic seeing the old layouts throughout these public uploads.
like 7/10 whenever i play a ROM, i'm catching one of these boys cause FlygonHD has taught me that RAT POWER can be scary with how good it is
My man scott i knew you was going to a Raticate video i cant wait to see how it does i made this comment before i started the video I know I'm in for a treat😊
I know the smart thing to do with Guts is to pre load with a status and have the bonus + status immunity for a whole fight, but I do love moments where it is just organically an Uno Reverse Trap Card.
I think why people conflate the healing room in the Gen 1 and Gen 3 versions is the NPC says the same thing. So it's easy for them to occupy the same mental space in the player's mind.
Love your content, as always Scott!
I think a Sitrus Berry really would have helped against Blaine. Bulbapedia says you can grab one on Route 6. In the two losses you had before picking Rain Dance, that extra bit of healing would've helped to either counteract the burn damage or counter the damage you took from Fire Blast.
Rattata/Raticate has Disk 1 Nuke status in Kanto for a reason.
Impressive that u recorded this runtrough on februar 2016
i hope u keep the Dedication Up
Havent finished the video, but guts facade could go crazy here. Interested to see how you play it!
HE'S BACK AGAIN. ITS MY BOI!
Why didn't you let a weedle poison you to get a guts boost?
You mention the growth rates not changing. However, in later generations, there is a boost if a Pokémon is unevolved pass the level it should have evolved.
why didn't' he use the VS seeker and train that way?
"Mistviecher" (crappy beasts) -my reaction whenever i encounter a rat in Dark Souls
The notorious Sweeper Strikes again !!
Nice video as always!
Like other people mentioned I feel like the room for improvement is huge for Raticate. Abusing guts more would be the obvious choice but I wonder how useful the rain dance thunder combo could be for the elite four and champion
Hey Scott, you think to do with The Next GUTS pokémon, Burn him with a wild flame body, or try to dodge the stat Drop with FOCUS ENERGY?
Yeah I feel he just played very straight forward.
I feel he lacks creativity here, and didnt used all his Options propperly
It would be incredible to just see Scott's folder with all the unreleased videos in it
I guess most of def. and hp ev are from Vir. Forest from Caterpies and Kakuna/Metapod in Prep. of Brock.
Raticate is actually a weather god. Thunderbolt, Thunder, Rain Dance, Blizzard… true power in giant rat form
🎵Rattatat, rattatat, went the drummers three🎵 :)
We appreciate the content Scott ❤
You really need to optimise this ASAP
You should watch how Nuzlocke contact creators use guys Raticate. It seems almost broken. I can totally see how a solo challenge run is different or even spending the time trying to get statuses may be bad but I still think worth checking
Love the content as always but please redo this and abuse guts as its broken. Im not sure if sleeptalk is available as a tm but its worth looking into.
Regardless, there's numerous quick ways to poison or burn raticate throughout the run. Then you just use hp restoring items to maintain the status. Pp restoring items need to be managed efficiently too as visits to the pokemon centre mean you have to waste time getting statused vs a wild Pokémon again 😅.
Thank scotty for the content 😊
What if you grabbed the leftovers item and combined it with burn. I'm pretty sure you can get it from the snorlax or with the item finder where the snorlax is
I wonder if using Protect against the Rhydon would discourage it from using Scary Face in the same way it seems to discourage the Pidgeot from Featherdancing.
It wouldn’t be as consistent as in Gen 2 as the AI prioritizes set up until a ready point rather than using it solely on the first turn.
I feel that they may have downgraded Giovanni's Rhydon to a Rhyhorn because it spoils the "surprise" of the Rival having a Rhydon, and they didn't want that overlap. Honestly though, they should have let him keep his Kangaskahn. When I think of Giovanni that's the Pokemon that comes to mind anyhow and it ties in a touch thematically (with him also being a parent).
When you forgot the Full Restores in your second League attempt, you should have taken the black out and reduced the extra training - it would have the same effect but would be faster.
Raticate is the AK47 of Pokémon. No I will not elaborate.
Giovanni doesn't have a Rhydon because Rhydon is an exclusive of Blue... for some reason.
Literally no other trainer has one. I think possibly in Gen 2 as well
Noticed you named your rival Terry. Thats my name! Pretty cool 😎
Disregarding stats and move pools. Are single stage pokemon faster than multi stage pokemon by nature? What I mean by that the multistage pokemon have a evolution screen that you need to press b to cancel which adds time vs pokemon that don't evolve.
If magnitude hiker is called Dudley, like a dud that didnt explode can we call Self-Destructing hiker "Sid" as in SD?
As a kid me and all my friends thought it was called Ratta-tatta, not just Ratta-ta.
I learnt recently that crimes were committed against ratticate in that huperfang was removed from its learnset smh
I don't hate how you went about this run as a first run, but you will do a lot better when you start using the Guts ability to the fullest. It doesn't have all the tools it gets in emerald (eg - facade and silk scarf) but guts stab Return should see you through a lot of the game, especially as Raticate is quite fast.
Thank you Scott for pronouncing Rattata properly.
No time in firered/leaf green. Reason for not having berries. Which is nice, because once the batteries go dry you don’t have time based events anyway in RSE.
As for why Giovanni has the Rhyhorn as his Ace, I think I know the reason.
Back in the day most developer teams were very small and there weren't dedicated specialists. Meaning no one did much playtesting, it wasn't common back in those days and most of the game design decisions were made sort of on the spot and left there once implemented, without thinking about it's place in the wider game.
This is why the games balance and design in Pokemon was so bad until Gen 4. Most of the time they had less than 10 people actually working on the game for a year or two until release. So, little is actually thought through and many things that would nowadays be caught during the Alpha stage are left inside. This includes weird Pokemon choices during bossfights or how many Pokemon that you could only get later in the game are way too weak for their placements or how nothing had a good movepool, all while like a fith of all moves were exclusives.
This is why Giovanni has two Ryhorns instead of Rydons. They likely planned his team once and then never looked back or checked if it fit with the overall balance
Or potencially because there where two upcomming fights whit Green who had a Rhydon.
@@Sunaki1000 if that’s what they cared about and easy solution would have been to just give him Golem.
But like it said, they did little play testing outside the conceptual stage back in the day. That’s as an example why like a third of all types kinda didn’t exist. Like there were almost no fighting, dragon, ghost, bug or rock moves and the ones that did exist were either unusably bad or had no logical distribution. The ghost and dragon types existed for a single Pokémon each, many Pokémon didn’t even get access to STAB moves. Why does the second Gym leader have a Starmie and why did the 7th have 2 Pokémon once evolved and once not, when Magmar existed
Trust me, little thought into how the overall game would be experienced was put into the game, because that just didn’t really exist.
@@frankwest5388 Dragon and Ghost was designed as special and rare type.
The overflow of Poison, Wather, and Normal was to much. But they fixed at least Poison in every followin gen.
@@Sunaki1000 but this again goes back to my original point. They didnt think many things through in how they would work during actual gameplay.
@@frankwest5388 And I think your Point is valid, but oversimplifies things. Pokemon war pretty new as a Concept. It played more like a old Final Fantasy, whit Special Moves and TMs as this special rare Resource. Or Voltorb as a Item Monster like the Mimics in Dark Souls, and fake Snake Rupys in Zelda. It took a while until it found its own identity, and removed what didnt work.
And some is just storytelling over Gameplay. I guess Bruno had two Onix, cause A hes a better Brook, and shows how fare you came, and B his Team might have been choosen before Onix Stats where Determined by the Developers. Same whit some Elite 4 Trainers in Hoenn, and Sinnoh I assume. The Typings and Boss Pokemon where choosen before the Pokedex was finished.
You could do a video on Pokémon Emerald with only weather moves, it could be fun 😁
Is there a turkey pokemon? I suppose radicate would be the next best thing
would it be possible to have moves show their base power while outside of battle? i find myself wondering base power sometimes but there isnt an indicator
I wondwr if there are any routes where it's worth going to the sevii islands? Perhaps there are some useful items over there.
Also shadow ball is very good, as a physical coverage move.
I agree, they should've gave Giovanni Rhydon. Final gym leader is supposed to be tough after all
Just so you’re aware, EV’s are capped at 252 in each stat, not 255
The cap at 252 started in Gen 6, before then you can go up to 255 and waste 3 EVs per maxed stat at level 100 because the 252nd EV is the last possibility useful one.
Scott is grabbing the values directly from RAM.
@@Dpmthow to get values from ram?
Havw you tried inflicting Poison, or later Burn for the entire Playtrought, or at least every major Battle and keep your Pokemon healthy whit Potions? I dont think thats impossible.
Intimidate really hurts physical attackers
Been waiting days for this to drop
HAHHAHA love the FRLG Raticate sprite
It's so goofy looking and ppffffffftttt
Silk scarf would go such a long way for the 10% damage boost
Route 22 is a better pre-Brock training route than Viridian forest. For only 3.4% less XP per fight on average you get atk/speed EV instead of hp/def/speed, everything is easy to OHKO, and there's no annoying pikachu with high speed and its annoying paralysis chance.
Did you try getting poisoned before brock? Prolly coulda done it much earlier than 18 w/ poison ratatata. Honestly i feel like you did not abuse guts nearly enough
"Charizard resists ice beam" he said...
Has always been my favorite pokemon line.