I have watched a ton of diesel heater videos while doing my research. That's what I want to do: install, operate and maintain correctly from the start. Your videos are the best. Thank you very much for sharing your experience.
Just started looking into diesel heaters and really enjoying your very helpful videos. Thanks very much. Would never have expected the flow through was quieter so you've really taught me something very useful.
I went with the double muffler that you did a sound demo on and the difference is amazing, I had one muffler to start with but when i added the second i noticed a big difference and much more quieter. Brilliant video john great information. The mufflers i purchased are the straight through type not the type with the bend.
@@dansmith6990 i used the exhaust pipe, i used a hacksaw andcut a 3 inch piece then used jubilee clips.,Use the smooth bit of the exhaust part, i bought a length of ebay, its cheap.
I have been fitting one of these heaters during the last week and worked perfectly, when I got the required but and bolt to fit the muffler I went under van and did the last bit then went inside put my feet up ready for a final check,all seemed fine then things changed and up comes error 8, having tried a couple more times it seems the muffler was the last straw, too many angles it seems , your video is a great help so thank you very much.
Watched this video last week and thought i'd give the twin exhaust muffler idea a try. Definitely quieter,significantly less roar. Thanks for the tip John.
I'm so glad to have come across this series of videos - a definitive guide that has been most helpful. It'd be nice if there was a way to capture the exhaust waste heat without compromising performance.
Hi Michael, thank you for the positive feedback. Yes, you can capture some of the exhaust heat, and I may possible do a video on this at some time in the future. You use a 32 mm copper exhaust pipe that is wrapped with 9 mm copper pipe and a water circulating system. You need to use copper to get the heat transfer.
@@johnmck1147 Thanks for your reply, John. Capturing waste heat is interesting to think about. I thought of air-to-water heat exchanger too but it'll require a water pump unless there was some clever way to make a thermal siphon - maybe some sort of DIY heat pipe might work. It's also interesting that the Chinese cloned the air heater but not the equivalent diesel water (engine block) heater.
Excellent. Thank you for sharing. The info on exhaust restrictions was particularly useful to understand. I had been planning to try adding some form of baffle insert or wire wool into the straight through muffler.
John, thank You for all this information. I'm installing a 2kW unit into my van and carefully following all Your instructions. But few things about the exhaust piping. In my opinion the original china pipe is crap: sleek ends but heavy corrugation in the middle, no way to cut it to proper length. And it is so stiff any force applied at muffler will punish the hose clamp at heater. So, replacing it with real bendpipe, but be careful: the German ancestors could not agree the caliper. Webasto uses 22mm and Eberspacher 24mm (inner dia). Chinaheat is a copy of E, I guess, so correct hose dia is 24mm. I learned this the hard way! Thank You! Edit: Just installed the new exhaust and noticed the alu-paper intake hose had taken some hit as well, BUT: intake is 25mm !! So there are 3 dimensions related to heaters: 22,24,25. Wunderbar!
@@johnmck1147 Yep, all we can do is just talk about it! Another thing: Did You address the air-to-fuel ratio tuning in any of Your videos? I have the yellow SmartSensor CO meter (product placement in Your vid :-) and I measured CO at tail pipe: 10ppm (=next to nothing) at low Hz but goes up quickly when fuel feed is increased. Rich mixture, is this indicating too low fan speed at hi power? Could this be tuned with (RPMmin-RPMmax)/(Hzmin-Hzmax) -linear function?
@@hikitech218 Hi HT, If you like experimenting, yes you can play with the fuel air mixture ratios, but this is not for the average owner. You can get into a lot of trouble. Suggest you do same test on your motor vehicle and note the results results. You will find them interesting. Suggest you do not start playing with mixture ratios on car as again you can cause more problems than you wanted. If you want to do this, suggest you use wife's car. - joke. JMcK
@@johnmck1147 Unwritten rules: If it works, don't touch it! If You want to play with techno-gadgets, leave Your wife's car alone! I have seen comments that the controllers and heaters are not correctly paired when they are shipped: 5kW parameters in 2 kW heater. But I agree it is sensitive area, and requires gas temp meas, Co meter and actually a lambda sensor. If I get my hands on some of those meters, I will do some tetsing, anyhow it is all digital parameters which can be reseted to original. assuming lean mixture hasn't evaporated all aluminum to stratosphere. HT
thank you for your research here, that was super valuable to me. i bought a kit with 1 muffler, already have the 2nd on the way before its even installed as i know i want it to be as stealth (aka quiet) as possible.
very very helpful i installed my heater about a month ago so now im going to add another muffler and then work on getting the pump quieter thank you John top video.
John does a great job on his videos, however when the dosing pump is installed correctly, and the system has been bled properly, the will be NO air bubbles in the system. I like to take the line end that connects to the heater and put it into fuel so it is covered, go through as many bleed cycles needed to remove all air, then connect to heater. It will start burning fuel very quickly, with NO flooding.
Really Grateful for this info as I’ve just bought one of these heaters for my MH. Thank you also for the use of Kerosene advise, you’ve explained both so very Clearly and I feel a lot more Confident in its use. Keep up the Good Work. 👍🏻
Hi Michael, I know of no high altitude kit that is made or sold for these Chinese Diesel Air heaters. These heaters will not suddenly stop working when used at high altitude but they will run rich due to lower levels of oxygen in the air. This will cause excessive carbon buildup in the heaters. Without an altitude kit, I would try running a kerosene/diesel mix 50:50 or up to 80:20 to lessen the carbon buildup. Kerosene is a very clean running fuel. As for spare parts, I suggest you carry some glow plug atomising screens, make yourself a glow plug spanner, and get an 8mm coach bolt to aid in screen removal. If you are careful with removal glow plugs last a long time and are easily cleaned, so a spare is not normally required. The real risk is breaking one on removal to replace the screen. You will also need to make a small wire pick to clean carbon out of the glow stare air hole, and a spare fuel filter is handy. If you intend to open the heater you will need a gasket kit as they are sometimes destroyed on opening if the heater is well used. A lot of kits come with an "air intake silencer". These are not an air filter and they don't work well as a silencer. I throw them away. You will need a combustion intake air filter, and if it does not come in the kit, you can buy them cheaply on line. Set up correctly, these heaters run very well and very clean using correct fuel. The main maintenance issues are carbon buildup in the atomising screen and a blocked fuel filter. J
You can use more than one muffler, provided it is the straight flow through type. However there is little benefit in having more than one muffler. Most noise comes from the fan running at a high setting. JMcK
Your videos are so in-depth and fascinating, that I couldn't help myself watching your playlist 3 times already! I wish you had the same on the new water heater Chinese clones of Webasto or Eberspacher water heaters. It would make a great floor heating for a tiny house, RV or a cabin. I don't know of a cheaper way to heat a small space, short of cutting and splitting firewood to use in a stove, for free! Here in Ontario Canada, Propane is $20 for a 20 lbs bottle refill at Costco and contains 4.7 Gallons (3.8 L) LP. Makes Propane a little over $1/liter. Diesel is about CAD $2/liter and has more than 1.5 times the energy. 138,490 Btu/gal compared to 91,420 Btu/gal of Propane. If you know a cheaper way to heat, please comment.
That is incredibly useful information. I believe my muffler is a flow through so I think I will get an additional one to reduce the noise a bit more. Thanks for making this video.
Great stuff John! And very interesting, data-based results for the straight-through muffler. Something else to consider is that convoluted pipe causes it's own restrictions to flow, particularly at higher flow rates. So using smooth-walled intake and exhaust piping wherever possible is a good idea.
I agree Michelle. Unlike internal combustion engine exhausts, with positive pressure exhaust displacement, these little heaters only have a very small plastic fan to push out the exhaust, so they don’t like any restrictions in exhaust. JMcK
Hi John, Really appreciate your effort in all these videos. It gives many of us "instant knowledge" to tackle our own foray into diesel heaters. I was wondering if you could expand on connections of exhaust piping. You covered connection of fuel quite well and it would be nice to see your take on the best way to connect the exhaust pipe to muffler, bend the piping, extensions etc. The pipes that come with the kit are hard to interconnect and I have seen a suppliers manual that suggest cutting a slot in pipes prior to connection to allow "pull down" by the clamp. With your experience would be good to see what you think is best for sealing and longevity. Great videos, thank you again.
Hi There, You can cut slots in the exhaust pipe end to allow joining. Use exhaust sealer or high temperature silicone to make the join gas proof. You can also use a short length (50 mm) of the right size copper, aluminium or stainless steel pipe to make a joiner, using high temp silicone to seal. JMcK
Thanks for taking the time to do this, I would guess the motorcycle muffler has a larger inside diameter so the exhaust isn't forced into the baffles, would be interesting to put some rifling on the entrance to the muffler, get the exhaust spinning and maybe it would enter the baffles more. Great info, just got mine so time to experiment and fall Salmon season gets cold in the boat.
Hi, I also would love to know that answer. I suspect a number of factories, or a number of assemblers. The burner castings all look the same, but the heaters will come with different quality gaskets, some have different ECU's, and I have seen some with a coloured case to have a bad moulding that causes the fan to scrape on the case. However the big difference is in the accessories and type of controller supplied. Suggest you buy from supplier with good ratings and one who has returns and ideally a local warehouse. J
It is because of the back flow in the chamber is what you hear. Think of the air flow as being water flowing through it. Now if the muffler had good packing it would slow the air or water flow down, which would make the exhaust a little bit quieter exhaust. But it would have to be made bigger around, not longer to make it just a little less noise. Yes adding 2 does work together but there is a lot more going on with the air flow meaning (exhaust gases) than I would like to post. If it was a gas combustion engine I would not be here. Diesel heaters I have no experience on, but I did check the temp on the exhaust was a little high (In my thinking anyway). I thought I could use that heat somewhere else. Like a food warmer or maybe a 5 gal hot water tank heater, I just don't know the exhaust back pressure that make these work. Thanks for your time tho. Chilly
Thanks for all help on other topics regarding the heaters. I'm going to install a diesel heater in my shop. I've seen videos where they recommend the combustion exhaust pipe be installed in a downward direction so that any condensate or extraneous diesel fuel will exit thru the muffler. My original plan was to have the combustion exhaust exit above the heater. Now I'm not sure that's a good idea. I'd appreciate your perspective.
Hi J, Combustion exhaust is an expanding hot gas and it likes to go UPWARDS. Long downward exhaust slope creates restrictions in the combustion process. In many motorhome and caravan installs the exhaust is generally horizontal or slightly downwards. If there is a low spot in the exhaust you need to drill a small hole to act as a condensate drain. Outside the vehicle this drain is no problem. Inside your shop it is fine to run the exhaust above the heater, but you will need a condensate drain at the bottom. If this drain is inside your shop you will need a water trap drain to prevent escape of CO gases. Have a look at the boat video in this series. Most boats have the exhaust exiting far higher than the heater, and they have a water trap condensate drain at the lowest point. Good luck. JMcK
Hi Michael, the Chinese have cloned the diesel water heaters as well, but they are still around the $1,000 mark for a 5 kw unit. I think perhaps in a year or so the price will come down to air heater level. That is what happened with the air heaters, they started at about half the genuine price, and then fell to a level the masses could afford one. J
Did this come to fruition? I know there's a fellow making a heat exchanger and shroud for these as of a couple months ago for about $150. No idea if it's any good.
Love the videos John , thanks for all your efforts, you are the guru. I plan to put my exhaust directly into the 4' exhaust of my main engine which I think means I can do away with the muffler all together . As the main is down below and sealed from the berths and the saloon , very little noise will penetrate any way.
Hi Bradley, thanks for the feedback. Sounds like you have a plan. I would be concerned about engine exhaust coming back up through the heater, but I can't make any comment as I have never tried that myself. Suggest you bring heater exhaust in at sharp angle to lessen chance of back flow into the heater, and have a CO tester available. I would be interested to know if your plan works. JMcK
I would, provided I had the time and resources, repeat these tests with noise meter situated at a set distance (perhaps 1 metre) exactly in front of muffler exhaust. Of course noise meter would have to be repositioned as required to ensure it is exactly a metre from exhaust outlet.
John, I know you did these tests some 4 years ago, but is it possible to get a test done on the new rectangular mufflers now available for the CDH? Would be interesting to see what the results are. I can supplier a muffler for you if you wish. Thanks in advance.
Hi John, Sorry for the late reply. I have recently arrived in Greece and I am doing maintenance on my boat prior to launch. Then I will be sailing for 3 months around the Med. I should be back in Australia in August. Could please contact me then about the muffler and I will be happy to have a look at it. Not sure if I would be prepared to do a video though. What type of muffler are you talking about?. Can you please give me more details. My email is johnmck47@outlook.com. Cheers. JMcK .
May I suggest a smooth wall exhaust pipe? My experience in using corrugated hoses versus smooth wall pipe on vacuum sewer cleaning equipment shows the corrugation creates turbulence resulting in a whirring or whistling noise. What are your thoughts on this?
Hi OG. Yes I agree, smooth is better than corrugated, but the heaters come with corrugated, and the vast majority of users use corrugated. In using these heaters for over 12 years now, in real life I find corrugated is not really an issue here. JMcK
Hi 22 savage, You are partly correct. In scientific terms 3db increase is actually twice the energy or power. However peoples hearing is very subjective, and dependent on ones ears. In human terms a 10 db change is generally considered the level that the average person perceives as a doubling of the noise level. Cheers. JMcK
Hi DM, the answer here is very variable and depends on outside temperature, exhaust restrictions, temperature setting of heater etc. But as a rule of thumb,.......300 deg C to 350 deg C, but it can go higher. JMcK
Hey John thanks for the great video series on the CDH. I have a question regarding the exhaust outlet and the fuel inlet close proximity. When I tested out my CDH the other weekend I found that the Hard vinyl fuel line had melted closed near the fuel inlet nipple. Does the exhaust wrap work well enough to stop this from happening or should I go for a better heatshield idea like a separation plate between the exhaust and the fuel line inlet?
Hi Mick, sounds like a type of flow through muffler. I think you will find the muffler is also packed with noise absorbent material. To see if it works just try your heater with and without the muffler. JMcK
@@johnmck1147 I thought it might have had glass wool or something so being nosey I looked inside it with a borescope and all it had inside was a little dust and some cobwebs.
Mick Ward Good for you Mick. All mine have glass wool inside. I am curious now to see if there is a noise reduction without the wool. The majority of car mufflers are empty inside. Cheers. JMcK
Great videos i really enjoy them you do a good job of intelligently testing things many of us would like to know. I will be purchacing one of thease heaters for my 4x4 camping vehicle. Question the espar heaters have an option for high altitude kit is there any such thing or adjustment for thease units to run well at high altitude? Also what parts would you reccamend carrying as spares for thease units atomizer screne, glow plug, gaskets of any kind for dissassembly and reassembly? I saw in one of your other videos an intake air screne you were showing does that come with the units or do i buy that seporate? Curious if installed and used properly how often do they get carboned or need repair? Thanks for the great vids and info mike
Hi Michael, Sorry I missed this post. I know of no Chinese heater with a high altitude kit accessory. However if you run a high Kerro: Diesel mix, say 80:20, it greatly reduces the carbon buildup from a poor O2 mix from high altitude use. Spare parts depend on the remoteness of your travels. On the boat I carry a spare glow plug, spare filter, spare gasket, and spare glow plug screen. If set up correctly they need very little maintenance. The unit we have in the boat has not needed a service or carbon clean out in over 10 years of part time use. (See video) JMcK
Hi John. Just wondering if you have any tips on shortening the stainless steel flexible exhaust pipe and making the cut end fit over the exhaust inlet? I have a 600mm piece and I need it to be 300mm. I have cut the pip but can't widen it enough to fit over the exhaust for clamping. Cannot find 300mm lengths online. Thanks!
Hi Simon, I have a pipe expand tool which makes things a little easier, however I have also cut fine slots in the pipe which allows it to expand enough to fit, and I have also used copper pipe joiners which you also need to slit to expand or contract. This way you need to use exhaust pipe adhesive on the joints or high temperature silicone to make an air type seal. JMcK.
@@johnmck1147 Hi John, Another excellent video, many thanks. I came looking for tips on exhaust assembly in a boat, where I need about 2m of exhaust. I wasn't sure what you meant by more exhaust in front of/behind the muffler: which is the front - the heater end? I haven't played with exhaust sealant since I was a teenager and would think that the hard setting pastes were a bad idea? You mention high temperature silicone - any pointers here, or tips? Many thanks.
Jonathan Webb Hi Jonathan, better to have more exhaust pipe before the muffler. Heater, long exhaust, muffler, short exhaust then outlet. High temperature silicone makes a good seal. JMcK
Hi Simon, I must have missed your post. Yes, just cut the ss pipe where you want and cut 4 or 5 slits in the end with a fine hacksaw. You can now spread the pipe to fit. Use exhaust sealant or high temperature silicone to seal. JMcK
Thank you John for the great work you have done on there heaters. I would like to use one in my workshop but don't have an outside wall to pass the exhaust through. Do you think putting the exhaust into a vertical pipe of say 75mm up through the roof would work. The height of the roof is around 3m. Would I need perhaps some sort of extraction fan as well?
Yes, that will work. You could even probably use normal exhaust for that length as it is going upwards. On the boat we have a rather long exhaust without issues because it goes upwards. However you will need some means of exhaust outlet protection outside as you don’t want any wind blowing backwards down the exhaust. JMcK
John - you bloody ripper, loving your informative videos. Have you done anything with wrapping exhaust and even inlet pipes for thermal and potentially noise efficiency? I’m thinking of the cloth heat wrap type stuff for the exhaust and maybe a foam wrap for the inlet air. Cheers again mate Mark
Hi There, sorry for the delay but I am away sailing with intermittent email. Yes, exhaust heat wrap is good, and does lessen exhaust noise a little. Thanks for your comments. JMcK
Very good video John. It's making me wonder what would happen if you made a 3 or more muffler system. Would it cause problems with sooting or combustion problems? If not what would the decibels of adding more mufflers than 2?
Hi 4736, generally one muffler is sufficient, unless you are parked very close to a neighbour. The most noise comes from the fan. That is another reason why I suggest a larger heater, or two heaters running slow (less noise) is better than a small heater running flat out. JMcK
well darn...i was thinking of rolling 3meters of exhaust pipe around another steel pipe to create a sort of radiator to avoid letting all that exhaust energy just going into the air...but i guess that was really bad idea....
Hi AH, You can make a heat exchanger, just don't put restrictions in the little diesel heater exhaust. It hates restrictions. You could get some solid pipe for the exhaust and wrap copper pipe around it for a water heater. You could make a heat exchanger using two different pipe diameters, one inside the other. Small differences in size you could heat water, large difference in size you could heat air. Use a small pump to circulate the water, and a small computer fan to circulate the air. JMcK
Hi Paul, yes, provided it is not a baffled muffler like supplied in the kits. My tests showed the supplied intake muffler actually increased the noise. See video. JMcK
Great set of videos and very useful/ Currently replacing and old eberpacher on our tranist RV. One question exhaust tube at 600mm is too long. If I leave it at 600mm and curve it under the van through 180 degrees my toal bends will be nearly 270 (limit?). Alternativelly can I cut the tube in halfand then ave bends less that 280 degree total?
Hi Ian, The heater will run with 600 mm of exhaust. It is ideal to have a short exhaust with a minimum of bends for a minimum of restrictions to the intake air and exhaust. The more the restrictions the poorer the combustion burn, the poorer the burn the more carbon, the more carbon produced the more frequent the service required. But you also need to be practical sometimes, and slightly exceed the recommendations. Sometimes you may need to try it and see how it goes. If your Eberspacher worked ok just swap in the Chinese heater. It should work ok. If your old Eberspacher was a service nightmare, then the Chinese heater will be also. Good luck. JMcK
How hot does the Exhaust exaust pipe get while running at maximum (boost) mode, can't recall if you used a lazer temp meter in the video or not?. Great lesson, thanks for sharing this information with us.🇺🇸✌️
So should I drill a hole in the exhaust pipe at the lowest spot? How would that work in a boat? Which is sort of an indoor space where I don't want to have any fumes in .
Hi John, thanks for the detailed info on this stuff. I was wondering what part of the heater is making the most noise- is it the combustion chamber itself, the exhaust, or the intakes? I notice some people put them in wooden boxes or kennels to cut down the noise and was wondering if you considered that a worthwhile option?
Hi, Clyde, it is the fan that makes the most noise. That is the main reason I suggest buying a larger heater running slower, rather than a smaller heater running flat out. A sound deadened enclosure does help, but the fan noise still comes out the outlet vent when running at a high speed. JMcK
Appreciate all your work on reviewing these heaters. I was looking at 5kw heaters on aliexpress.com and they vary in price. My question, Are they all made by one factory and basically the same and just marketed by different retailers or there are truly different manufactures ? I don’t mind paying more for better quality, but I can't discern the better quality units.
Hi Ji Martin, sorry I missed this and just saw it today. To the best of my knowledge there are a number of manufactures as the castings and cases vary slightly. Also there are a number of different manufactures making the electronics. Mostly they are excellent for the price, but you do get the odd dud, so I try and select a seller with a local country warehouse and one who advertises free returns. JMcK
Hi John, love your videos. Bought the one you recommended but am not mechanically minded so am having troubles. Two questions: 1. Does the pump stop ticking when working - ours does after a couple of minutes and my partner panics and tells me to turn heater off. 2. Our heater only provided a short black wire with loop to be fixed to the van chassis. Is that why the pump stops working - something about voltage. Should we extend the black wire to the neg of battery? Thanks Anne
Hi Anne, First I suggest you have a look at the videos on motorhome install. The fuel pump is a electromagnetic piston dosing pump. It “ticks” when it is working. If it does not tick it is not working and not delivering fuel to the heater. The heater should be connected directly to a battery. The red wire, with an inline fuse goes to the positive terminal and the black wire to the negative terminal. The wires supplied with these heaters are a bare minimum size. If they need to be extended to reach the battery you must use bigger wires to prevent voltage drop. I hope that helps. JMcK
Hi, great videos, I see the link to the pass through exhaust that you posted is no longer available, any idea what I should look for on EBAY for a pass through ?
Hi Chris, search for diesel air heater or parking heater muffler. Here is a link to get you started in your search. www.ebay.com.au/itm/24mm-Diesel-Heater-Exhaust-Muffler-Pipe-Silencer-Clamps-Bracket-For-Ebespacher/362935883396?epid=19023397193&hash=item5480aa1684:g:xqAAAOSwJ2pb1ryb Regards. JMcK
Hi Fibra, here is a start for your muffler search. www.ebay.com.au/itm/Air-Filter-Exhaust-Silencer-Muffler-Bracket-Kit-For-Ebespacher-Diesel-Heater/183705927920?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649
Hi John, I am retrofitting an all-in-one Chinese diesel heater per your instructions in these videos and I am wondering what your best advice is for the placement of the exhaust and air intake? I put the heater up on wooden feet so I have space underneath, but I am wondering if the exhaust pipe should be extended from the 60 cm pipe supplied and put out the front of the heater (controller side) so as not to get exhaust fumes mixed in with the fan at the back of the unit? The heater will sit next to my SUV with the heat pumped in through a long tube through my window (I am sleeping inside the car). I would then put the air intake pipe out the back.
Why all the curves in the exhaust pipe? Wouldn’t it be BEST to just cut the exhaust pipe short enough to point straight downwards (out of the hole of your vehicle), with the muffler attached at the end of the pipe?? Would exhaust fumes actually make their way back through metal or in my case 3/4” of plywood underneath my cargo trailer? Just curious to know what YOU think John.?? Thanks Art
Hi Art, yes, you could mount the muffler directly to the heater if you wished, providing the heater was sealed well, so gases could not come back into the accommodation area. JMcK
Thanks for the videos - very informant. Question, I am replacing a Propex propane forced air heater with one of these on our boat and am trying to use the same inlet and combustion hoses. Both hoses are slightly larger OD than the diesel (I can use a section of the supplied hoses as a shim) but the through hull is wildly different. Do you have any idea what the exhaust temperature is? Depending on the temp, I may need to add some insulation between the exhaust/inlet fitting and the hull.
Hi John, The exhaust can reach some 100's of deg C and must be isolated from the hull. You must also use a suitable isolation through hull. You can buy a polished ss exhaust through hull on line. Search " Eberspacher diesel heater marine exhaust through hull" If you are a handy welder you can make your own or get one made, but probably cheaper to buy one. Have you seen my boat install video showing the through hull?. JMcK
@@johnmck1147 From a search of more videos, I am guessing 600 deg F at high output. The Propex fitting is different (you can look it up on line if you are interested) - it takes care of the input and exhaust. The air intake is just below the exhaust which may serve to keep the temp of the fitting in the reasonable range (or it did with the propane heater). It has a plate offset from the port which may also be problematic but I thought it was a really good idea since it would dissipate the inertial forces of a wave slap. Propex heaters, from LONG conversations with the factory and "local" (only 2,500 miles away) dealer trying to get the thing repaired and working (I think it is the board - I am afraid this unit is headed for the dump), is also very sensitive to combustion hose lengths, so I am hoping the diesel requirements are not too far off. Again, thanks for your help and your videos are first rate and very helpful and informative.
Hi John sorry to ask so many questions but the more I look into fitting a unit the more queries it raises before I begin. I want to get the exhaust right as this is the most important bit. In my boat the exhaust will be about 1.5 mts slightly uphill so must I have a drain hole? The distance from water line to thru hull outlet is 52cm so no need for a loop? I guess the Eberspacer sealed muffler does not have a drain hole hence the water trap? Where to obtain a drain unit like you have on your boat and assume this just mates with the outlet on the heater unit, does this type not leak gas too? By the way your series of videos are superb-you have a wealth of knowledge. With thanks again.
Hi Eric, you should have an exhaust loop on a boat to keep out rain, sea spray, and wave slap from running back down the exhaust and into the heater. Hot exhaust gas, as it cools, sucks into the exhaust large amounts of external cool moist air, and lots of water condenses out of this air. You need a condensate trap at the lowest point. This is usually at the heater. The condensate trap has water in it and stops gas escaping into the boat, It works like a water trap in a toilet or a sink. You can get one made or buy on line. Search something like " Eberspacher diesel heater condensate or marine water trap" . A marine muffler is gas tight. Also search under Eberspacher air heater marine muffler. Cheers, JMcK
John - thanks for these terrific videos - they are really most helpful. A really dumb question but if the exhaust temperature is something like 400 to 650 deg F and the condensation (my exhaust run is much shorter than yours) amounts to less than a teaspoon, would not the fluid boil off within min. of firing the heater up? Thanks. John Coppedge
Hi John, Yes that is correct in many cases. But even with a short exhaust just a tablespoon of condensation water trapped in the exhaust can cause back pressure in the heater, preventing combustion air to enter the burner causing a hard start. The little fan in these heaters is not very powerful and you restrict the exhaust you restrict the inlet combustion air. Also sometimes traces of unburnt diesel can leak into the exhaust. If that pools in the bottom of an exhaust loop it can be interesting when the exhaust is hot enough to ignite it. JMcK
Very very helpful John. Thanks heaps for a great set of clips. Quick question. Can I join 3 straight through mufflers as I have them and would it be of any benefit? Thanks heaps regards Peter.
Dave McLuckie did , tho he didn't specifically address excessive restriction issues. i don't recall if he used a db meter , but a 2nd , then 3rd muffler were Very audibly noticable on the mic. As i recall tho , he was using the REALLY cheap Chi. mufflers that were EMPTY inside. Yup , that's right - EMPTY : No perf tube , NO matting , just an expansion space ! ( that's what i got with mine ) The 3rd muffler made it whisper quiet. i was quite surprised.
Hi John, firstly great video & info you have provided! My question is when you say "you must have more exhaust in front of the muffler and less exhaust behind the muffler", which is the front and which is behind? Do you mean after the muffler and before the muffler? Thanks
Hi Frank, it is better, in my opinion, (but not critical) to have the muffler closer to the end of the exhaust run. ie, more exhaust pipe before the muffler and only a little bit of exhaust pipe after the muffler. This is not like a car exhaust with positive displacement of the exhaust gases, but exhaust outflow relies on a very tiny fan, and I feel it is better to have a restriction in the pipe close to the end of exhaust, rather than the beginning. Not so critical with a less restrictive flow through muffler. JMcK
Hi John thanks 4 all the info. now i know way my heater was smoking . Question is thare a maximum lenkt of the outgoing (warm) air ? i whant to bild a ring in mij camper. Gretings
Hi Mr Zx, the longer the length the greater the restriction and the lesser the volume. However I have seen outlet tube lengths of 10 m (30 ft) in boats that work ok.
On the subject of exhausts, what are your thoughts on an upright exhaust stack if the heater is sideways mounted? Considering this option to pipe the exhaust out of the roof (with the exhaust in an enclosed box like a house flue) so fumes are airborne.
Hi Mr C, If the heater is sideways mounted you must make sure the the glow plug is on the top. You would need a 90° bend in the exhaust to make it go upwards. An upwards exhaust is very good and draws well but you need another bend at the top or some other form of rain deflector at the top. You will also need a small drain hole at the bottom of exhaust to drain away condensation. If the bottom of exhaust is in accommodation space you need a water trap condensate drain like in my boat video. Cheers. JMcK
Have you tried the original welded tube mufflers that come with the eberspachers for marine use? They have the pipes permanently welded either side as you need a sealed exhaust system on a boat. These chinese mufflers are not suitable for enclosed systems as they are not sealed.
Hi John, Just found this video and it is most wonderful. I'm in a position where I need to pipe exhuast a fair distance (3-4m) from the heater.. Am i wrong to install an exhaust fan to assist in sucking the exhaust away? Is that likely to cause issues?
Hi Tim, I don't see an issue with that, it is a long exhaust. If the exhaust run in an upwards angle the exhaust will flow well. If exhaust angles downwards you will have back pressure issues without some help. Cheers, JMcK
@@johnmck1147 Awesome, Thank you. I've got it mounted in the workshop, porting the exhaust staright outside but for the sake of the neighbours want to run some pvc conduit and mounnt a fan to suck the rest up to elevationn to be better caught on the wind. You made the comment about the back pressure, just thought to query it. :))
Do you recommend using a turret mount when installing these into a caravan?, I thought as long as I cut the hole out around the intake/exhaust I should probably be okay
Hi Shane, It is preferable to use a turret mount or similar when mounting through a plywood or composite floor. If you can't get a turret floor plate you can use a metal 100 mm gutter down pipe adaptor to give you a metal guard around the cut out hole. If you are unable to use a turret mount or metal line the combustion intake and exhaust hole, the cutout in the wood floor must be a minimum of 100 mm dia, and the plywood end grain well sealed against moisture. Cheers, JMcK
Hi John thanks for your time I’ve read several comments about insects/wasps nesting in combustion lines My question for you what can be used to make a stainless steel mesh filter so as to not cause problem like you mentioned in this Video Thanks Rick
Hi Rick, If the intake is mounted in a clean space mesh filters are ok. If the intake is in a dirty space such as under a caravan or vehicle that kicks up dirt moisture and dust you need a foam intake filter. Stainless mesh filters that will suit can be bought at a hardware store plumbing section or an irrigation supplier. You can also buy them on eBay from a number of suppliers. Below is just one to start you off. www.ebay.com.au/itm/25mm-Air-Intake-Filter-Silencer-For-Dometic-Eberspacher-Webasto-Diesel-Heater/293113012675?epid=14028170397&hash=item443ee5a1c3:g:jcQAAOSwaVRcQEbK Foam type air filters that will suit can be bought at a motorbike shop. Cheers, JMcK
fly screen off a window can be wrapped around the silencer that came with it, they dont have to be stainless, but would need to be checked once in a while depending on how often you use it, to clean
Hi Rich, Easier to buy one, there are many sold for $6 or $7. Check out this supplier as a start. www.ebay.com.au/itm/25mm-Air-Intake-Filter-Silencer-For-Dometic-Eberspacher-Webasto-Diesel-Heater-/293113012675?hash=item443ee5a1c3 Cheers, JMcK
Hi John, Do you have any recommended sources to buy the straight through mufflers ? Its difficult to find them; also the mufflers should come welded on the ingress/egress pipes as I have noticed that some exhaust comes from the water drain hole and between the pipe and exhaust casing on the muffler that I received with the unit
Hi John, with an all-in-one unit placed outside an SUV do you need to use ducting to source the fresh air from inside the cabin to avoid getting some exhaust fumes inside the car? Also, this will make for warmer air coming out of the heater…
Hi DP, Yes, you can recirculate the air if you wish. Whether you heat fresh air or recirculated air is a personal choice. However, I personally think in your case it not worth the effort, and I also suspect you will get too hot heating recirculated air. The all in one heaters use a 5 Kw heater and that size heater will easily heat an SUV. Just make sure exhaust gases can't be sucked into the hot air intake. If you are going to go to the effort to put ducting on the intake side of the heater, you could you could duct in fresh air well away from the exhaust, or put it in the SUV and recirculate it if you wish. JMcK
Hi I've seen a comment that useing spiral pipe rather than the ribed type pipe supplied would be quieter with no silencer, than a riibed pipe with a silencer, I've ordered some but not here yet. I could not make out if you joined the two silencers with tin can rapped round and clamped, am i wrong?
What I haven't seen in this series is how to attach an extension to the existing exhaust pipe. The two ends are the same diameter. Should I have ordered a connector?
Hi John your videos have been very helpful to me and others. I am installing a 2kw heater in a small boat. My exhaust will be 1.5mts long and I am considering not fitting a muffler. Reason being that the exhaust will exit the boat via a stern locker and I don't want moisture/unburnt diesel dripping into the locker from the muffler. My question' s are is it OK not to have a muffler and is it OK not to have a drain hole (No muffler)?
Hi Eric, it is not essential to have a muffler, the heater will just be a little noisier. If the exhaust travels upwards you will need a water trap, see video on boat install. Without a water trap condensate will pool in your combustion chamber. JMcK
John. Is it possible to position the heater upside down, with the intake and exhaust ports pointing up? For my application, positioning the heater with the ports up would make installation easier. Thanks!
Sorry, NO. Oh, it will work for a while, just as your motor car engine will run without cooling water or any engine oil, for a while. Diesel will start to pool at the bottom of the burner chamber, flood the glow plug and burner screens and then the heater will not start. You can however mount the heater on its side, provided it is the side with the glow plug on the top. Regards, JMcK
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I have watched a ton of diesel heater videos while doing my research. That's what I want to do: install, operate and maintain correctly from the start. Your videos are the best. Thank you very much for sharing your experience.
Just started looking into diesel heaters and really enjoying your very helpful videos. Thanks very much. Would never have expected the flow through was quieter so you've really taught me something very useful.
You probably wouldn't believe how useful your tips are... THANK YOU.
Thanks for the positive feedback Alexandre. JMcK
Not only a 10dB drop, but also eliminates certain higher frequencies which make it appear exponentially louder. Very good video.
I went with the double muffler that you did a sound demo on and the difference is amazing, I had one muffler to start with but when i added the second i noticed a big difference and much more quieter. Brilliant video john great information. The mufflers i purchased are the straight through type not the type with the bend.
how did you connect the two mufflers?
@@dansmith6990 i used the exhaust pipe, i used a hacksaw andcut a 3 inch piece then used jubilee clips.,Use the smooth bit of the exhaust part, i bought a length of ebay, its cheap.
I have been fitting one of these heaters during the last week and worked perfectly, when I got the required but and bolt to fit the muffler I went under van and did the last bit then went inside put my feet up ready for a final check,all seemed fine then things changed and up comes error 8, having tried a couple more times it seems the muffler was the last straw, too many angles it seems , your video is a great help so thank you very much.
Thanks for the feedback Rachel.
Watched this video last week and thought i'd give the twin exhaust muffler idea a try. Definitely quieter,significantly less roar. Thanks for the tip John.
👍
I'm so glad to have come across this series of videos - a definitive guide that has been most helpful.
It'd be nice if there was a way to capture the exhaust waste heat without compromising performance.
Hi Michael, thank you for the positive feedback.
Yes, you can capture some of the exhaust heat, and I may possible do a video on this at some time in the future. You use a 32 mm copper exhaust pipe that is wrapped with 9 mm copper pipe and a water circulating system. You need to use copper to get the heat transfer.
@@johnmck1147 Thanks for your reply, John.
Capturing waste heat is interesting to think about. I thought of air-to-water heat exchanger too but it'll require a water pump unless there was some clever way to make a thermal siphon - maybe some sort of DIY heat pipe might work.
It's also interesting that the Chinese cloned the air heater but not the equivalent diesel water (engine block) heater.
@@MichaelAChang eBay HAS had Chinese versions that do BOTH air , plus an exchanger section to plumb to the engine block as well.
Excellent. Thank you for sharing. The info on exhaust restrictions was particularly useful to understand. I had been planning to try adding some form of baffle insert or wire wool into the straight through muffler.
Hi J258, Suggest don't do it. The tiny exhaust does not do restrictions. JMcK
@@johnmck1147
Thanks for this info 😅
John, thank You for all this information.
I'm installing a 2kW unit into my van and carefully following all Your instructions.
But few things about the exhaust piping.
In my opinion the original china pipe is crap: sleek ends but heavy corrugation in the middle, no way to cut it to proper length. And it is so stiff any force applied at muffler will punish the hose clamp at heater.
So, replacing it with real bendpipe, but be careful: the German ancestors could not agree the caliper. Webasto uses 22mm and Eberspacher 24mm (inner dia). Chinaheat is a copy of E, I guess, so correct hose dia is 24mm. I learned this the hard way!
Thank You!
Edit:
Just installed the new exhaust and noticed the alu-paper intake hose had taken some hit as well, BUT: intake is 25mm !!
So there are 3 dimensions related to heaters: 22,24,25. Wunderbar!
Hi Hiki Tech,
Thanks for the feedback. Yes, it would be nice if the manufactures could agree on a common standard. JMcK
@@johnmck1147 Yep, all we can do is just talk about it!
Another thing: Did You address the air-to-fuel ratio tuning in any of Your videos?
I have the yellow SmartSensor CO meter (product placement in Your vid :-) and I measured CO at tail pipe: 10ppm (=next to nothing) at low Hz but goes up quickly when fuel feed is increased. Rich mixture, is this indicating too low fan speed at hi power?
Could this be tuned with (RPMmin-RPMmax)/(Hzmin-Hzmax) -linear function?
@@hikitech218
Hi HT,
If you like experimenting, yes you can play with the fuel air mixture ratios, but this is not for the average owner. You can get into a lot of trouble.
Suggest you do same test on your motor vehicle and note the results results. You will find them interesting. Suggest you do not start playing with mixture ratios on car as again you can cause more problems than you wanted. If you want to do this, suggest you use wife's car. - joke.
JMcK
@@johnmck1147 Unwritten rules:
If it works, don't touch it!
If You want to play with techno-gadgets, leave Your wife's car alone!
I have seen comments that the controllers and heaters are not correctly paired when they are shipped: 5kW parameters in 2 kW heater.
But I agree it is sensitive area, and requires gas temp meas, Co meter and actually a lambda sensor.
If I get my hands on some of those meters, I will do some tetsing, anyhow it is all digital parameters which can be reseted to original.
assuming lean mixture hasn't evaporated all aluminum to stratosphere.
HT
Best video on these mufflers I’ve Found , Thanks 🙏 ps I love all your records and time you put in
Thanks for the positive feedback Drone Pilot. JMcK
@@johnmck1147 link to the flow tru ?
thank you for your research here, that was super valuable to me. i bought a kit with 1 muffler, already have the 2nd on the way before its even installed as i know i want it to be as stealth (aka quiet) as possible.
👍
very very helpful i installed my heater about a month ago so now im going to add another muffler and then work on getting the pump quieter thank you John top video.
Pleased it was of some help Ross
This is the best explanation of diesel heaters, thanks
John does a great job on his videos, however when the dosing pump is installed correctly, and the system has been bled properly, the will be NO air bubbles in the system. I like to take the line end that connects to the heater and put it into fuel so it is covered, go through as many bleed cycles needed to remove all air, then connect to heater. It will start burning fuel very quickly, with NO flooding.
Really Grateful for this info as I’ve just bought one of these heaters for my MH.
Thank you also for the use of Kerosene advise, you’ve explained both so very Clearly and I feel a lot more Confident in its use.
Keep up the Good Work. 👍🏻
Thanks for the positive feedback Anthony. Glad the videos were of some help. JMcK
Hi Michael, I know of no high altitude kit that is made or sold for these Chinese Diesel Air heaters. These heaters will not suddenly stop working when used at high altitude but they will run rich due to lower levels of oxygen in the air. This will cause excessive carbon buildup in the heaters. Without an altitude kit, I would try running a kerosene/diesel mix 50:50 or up to 80:20 to lessen the carbon buildup. Kerosene is a very clean running fuel.
As for spare parts, I suggest you carry some glow plug atomising screens, make yourself a glow plug spanner, and get an 8mm coach bolt to aid in screen removal. If you are careful with removal glow plugs last a long time and are easily cleaned, so a spare is not normally required. The real risk is breaking one on removal to replace the screen. You will also need to make a small wire pick to clean carbon out of the glow stare air hole, and a spare fuel filter is handy. If you intend to open the heater you will need a gasket kit as they are sometimes destroyed on opening if the heater is well used.
A lot of kits come with an "air intake silencer". These are not an air filter and they don't work well as a silencer. I throw them away. You will need a combustion intake air filter, and if it does not come in the kit, you can buy them cheaply on line.
Set up correctly, these heaters run very well and very clean using correct fuel. The main maintenance issues are carbon buildup in the atomising screen and a blocked fuel filter. J
Are there alternate metering pumps available with lower stroke volume, so you could swap out to get a lower flow rate at a higher altitude?
Thank you John, this was a real eye opener on muffler design. Thanks for posting.
Your welcome Buzz, glad to be of some help. JMcK
You can use more than one muffler, provided it is the straight flow through type. However there is little benefit in having more than one muffler. Most noise comes from the fan running at a high setting. JMcK
Your videos are so in-depth and fascinating, that I couldn't help myself watching your playlist 3 times already!
I wish you had the same on the new water heater Chinese clones of Webasto or Eberspacher water heaters.
It would make a great floor heating for a tiny house, RV or a cabin.
I don't know of a cheaper way to heat a small space, short of cutting and splitting firewood to use in a stove, for free!
Here in Ontario Canada, Propane is $20 for a 20 lbs bottle refill at Costco and contains 4.7 Gallons (3.8 L) LP. Makes Propane a little over $1/liter. Diesel is about CAD $2/liter and has more than 1.5 times the energy. 138,490 Btu/gal compared to 91,420 Btu/gal of Propane.
If you know a cheaper way to heat, please comment.
Bloody fantastic work John, thanks for your efforts mate.
Pleased you liked them Ash. JMcK
Normally if the fuel hose is tied back away from the exhaust this is not an issue.
But exhaust wrap is always a good idea. JMcK
excellent controlled environment and explanations with various samples, thank you
Pleased you enjoyed it DA. JMcK
That is incredibly useful information. I believe my muffler is a flow through so I think I will get an additional one to reduce the noise a bit more. Thanks for making this video.
Your welcome Mange. JMcK
Excellent video amen.
Great detail, comparisons and clinical testing. Thanks...
Thanks James. JMcK
Great stuff John! And very interesting, data-based results for the straight-through muffler. Something else to consider is that convoluted pipe causes it's own restrictions to flow, particularly at higher flow rates. So using smooth-walled intake and exhaust piping wherever possible is a good idea.
I agree Michelle.
Unlike internal combustion engine exhausts, with positive pressure exhaust displacement, these little heaters only have a very small plastic fan to push out the exhaust, so they don’t like any restrictions in exhaust. JMcK
Hi John,
Really appreciate your effort in all these videos. It gives many of us "instant knowledge" to tackle our own foray into diesel heaters. I was wondering if you could expand on connections of exhaust piping. You covered connection of fuel quite well and it would be nice to see your take on the best way to connect the exhaust pipe to muffler, bend the piping, extensions etc. The pipes that come with the kit are hard to interconnect and I have seen a suppliers manual that suggest cutting a slot in pipes prior to connection to allow "pull down" by the clamp. With your experience would be good to see what you think is best for sealing and longevity. Great videos, thank you again.
Hi There, You can cut slots in the exhaust pipe end to allow joining. Use exhaust sealer or high temperature silicone to make the join gas proof. You can also use a short length (50 mm) of the right size copper, aluminium or stainless steel pipe to make a joiner, using high temp silicone to seal. JMcK
Best diesel heater exhaust review by far
Thank you U38 for those positive comments. JMcK
Appreciate all the in depth analysis. thanks.
Pleased to be of some help. JMcK
Thank you for the video, from Henrico County Virginia
Your welcome Norm. Pleased you found the video helpful. JMcK
Thanks for taking the time to do this, I would guess the motorcycle muffler has a larger inside diameter so the exhaust isn't forced into the baffles, would be interesting to put some rifling on the entrance to the muffler, get the exhaust spinning and maybe it would enter the baffles more. Great info, just got mine so time to experiment and fall Salmon season gets cold in the boat.
Thanks for the feedback Steve. Keep warm catching those fish. JMcK
Thanks for the video John.
You answered all my questions about the mufflers.
👍
Glad I found your video before I purchased! Thank you
Hi IB, pleased you found it helpful. JMcK
Hi, I also would love to know that answer. I suspect a number of factories, or a number of assemblers. The burner castings all look the same, but the heaters will come with different quality gaskets, some have different ECU's, and I have seen some with a coloured case to have a bad moulding that causes the fan to scrape on the case. However the big difference is in the accessories and type of controller supplied. Suggest you buy from supplier with good ratings and one who has returns and ideally a local warehouse. J
It is because of the back flow in the chamber is what you hear. Think of the air flow as being water flowing through it. Now if the muffler had good packing it would slow the air or water flow down, which would make the exhaust a little bit quieter exhaust. But it would have to be made bigger around, not longer to make it just a little less noise. Yes adding 2 does work together but there is a lot more going on with the air flow meaning (exhaust gases) than I would like to post.
If it was a gas combustion engine I would not be here. Diesel heaters I have no experience on, but I did check the temp on the exhaust was a little high (In my thinking anyway). I thought I could use that heat somewhere else. Like a food warmer or maybe a 5 gal hot water tank heater, I just don't know the exhaust back pressure that make these work.
Thanks for your time tho.
Chilly
Thanks for the feedback William. JMcK
Thanks for all help on other topics regarding the heaters. I'm going to install a diesel heater in my shop. I've seen videos where they recommend the combustion exhaust pipe be installed in a downward direction so that any condensate or extraneous diesel fuel will exit thru the muffler. My original plan was to have the combustion exhaust exit above the heater. Now I'm not sure that's a good idea. I'd appreciate your perspective.
Hi J,
Combustion exhaust is an expanding hot gas and it likes to go UPWARDS. Long downward exhaust slope creates restrictions in the combustion process. In many motorhome and caravan installs the exhaust is generally horizontal or slightly downwards. If there is a low spot in the exhaust you need to drill a small hole to act as a condensate drain. Outside the vehicle this drain is no problem.
Inside your shop it is fine to run the exhaust above the heater, but you will need a condensate drain at the bottom. If this drain is inside your shop you will need a water trap drain to prevent escape of CO gases.
Have a look at the boat video in this series. Most boats have the exhaust exiting far higher than the heater, and they have a water trap condensate drain at the lowest point.
Good luck. JMcK
@@johnmck1147 Thanks again!
Awesome tests mate.
Really enjoyed watching this and it helped me a lot.
Cheers.
Pleased the series was of some help. JMcK
Hi Michael, the Chinese have cloned the diesel water heaters as well, but they are still around the $1,000 mark for a 5 kw unit. I think perhaps in a year or so the price will come down to air heater level. That is what happened with the air heaters, they started at about half the genuine price, and then fell to a level the masses could afford one. J
Did this come to fruition? I know there's a fellow making a heat exchanger and shroud for these as of a couple months ago for about $150. No idea if it's any good.
Bobil vans in the UK doing heat exchangers for these to heat water, good prices too
Love the videos John , thanks for all your efforts, you are the guru. I plan to put my exhaust directly into the 4' exhaust of my main engine which I think means I can do away with the muffler all together . As the main is down below and sealed from the berths and the saloon , very little noise will penetrate any way.
Hi Bradley, thanks for the feedback.
Sounds like you have a plan. I would be concerned about engine exhaust coming back up through the heater, but I can't make any comment as I have never tried that myself. Suggest you bring heater exhaust in at sharp angle to lessen chance of back flow into the heater, and have a CO tester available.
I would be interested to know if your plan works. JMcK
Thanks Again John . Very Informative.
I would, provided I had the time and resources, repeat these tests with noise meter situated at a set distance (perhaps 1 metre) exactly in front of muffler exhaust. Of course noise meter would have to be repositioned as required to ensure it is exactly a metre from exhaust outlet.
John, I know you did these tests some 4 years ago, but is it possible to get a test done on the new rectangular mufflers now available for the CDH? Would be interesting to see what the results are. I can supplier a muffler for you if you wish. Thanks in advance.
Hi John,
Sorry for the late reply. I have recently arrived in Greece and I am doing maintenance on my boat prior to launch. Then I will be sailing for 3 months around the Med. I should be back in Australia in August. Could please contact me then about the muffler and I will be happy to have a look at it. Not sure if I would be prepared to do a video though. What type of muffler are you talking about?. Can you please give me more details.
My email is johnmck47@outlook.com. Cheers. JMcK
.
Wow John, you certainly know your stuff, very informative and useful information, thank you very much.
Pleased you liked it Brad. JMcK
Lover your video. You should be hired and paid big $$$ by manufacturer.
Thanks for the positive feedback Matt. JMcK
Fantastic video. Thanks for the detail!!!! (And all the hard work!!!)
Thank you for the positive feedback BA. JMcK
May I suggest a smooth wall exhaust pipe? My experience in using corrugated hoses versus smooth wall pipe on vacuum sewer cleaning equipment shows the corrugation creates turbulence resulting in a whirring or whistling noise. What are your thoughts on this?
Hi OG. Yes I agree, smooth is better than corrugated, but the heaters come with corrugated, and the vast majority of users use corrugated. In using these heaters for over 12 years now, in real life I find corrugated is not really an issue here. JMcK
I thought noise doubled ever 3 db. So wouldn't a change of 10db actually be approx 8 times louder? Great videos by the way. Very informative.
Hi 22 savage,
You are partly correct. In scientific terms 3db increase is actually twice the energy or power.
However peoples hearing is very subjective, and dependent on ones ears. In human terms a 10 db change is generally considered the level that the average person perceives as a doubling of the noise level.
Cheers. JMcK
Thx John, very clear video. Can you say something about the heat ? How warm do the exhaustpipes become ?
Hi DM, the answer here is very variable and depends on outside temperature, exhaust restrictions, temperature setting of heater etc. But as a rule of thumb,.......300 deg C to 350 deg C, but it can go higher. JMcK
Thanks,Great, exactly was I thought about all the extensions of the outlet pipe.
👍
Hey John thanks for the great video series on the CDH. I have a question regarding the exhaust outlet and the fuel inlet close proximity. When I tested out my CDH the other weekend I found that the Hard vinyl fuel line had melted closed near the fuel inlet nipple. Does the exhaust wrap work well enough to stop this from happening or should I go for a better heatshield idea like a separation plate between the exhaust and the fuel line inlet?
The muffler supplied with my heater is a spring inside a hollow stainless steel shell
Hi Mick, sounds like a type of flow through muffler. I think you will find the muffler is also packed with noise absorbent material. To see if it works just try your heater with and without the muffler. JMcK
@@johnmck1147 I thought it might have had glass wool or something so being nosey I looked inside it with a borescope and all it had inside was a little dust and some cobwebs.
Mick Ward
Good for you Mick.
All mine have glass wool inside.
I am curious now to see if there is a noise reduction without the wool. The majority of car mufflers are empty inside.
Cheers. JMcK
@@johnmck1147 the sound with the muffler on is about 3 to 5 decibels with quieter than with it off tested with a smartphone app
Mick Ward
Thanks for the info Mick.
I will have to try that phone app. I always have my phone, but I don't carry around a dB meter in my pocket. JMcK
Another outstanding video, thank you for sharing your test results.✌️
Your welcome Eric. Glad they were helpful to you. JMcK
@@johnmck1147 ✌️
Something i noticed, my vans exhaust was quieter when it started to rot and have 3-4 holes along it's length before the muffler.
😳…👍
Thanks buddy. You're helping me a lot.
👍
Great videos i really enjoy them you do a good job of intelligently testing things many of us would like to know. I will be purchacing one of thease heaters for my 4x4 camping vehicle. Question the espar heaters have an option for high altitude kit is there any such thing or adjustment for thease units to run well at high altitude?
Also what parts would you reccamend carrying as spares for thease units atomizer screne, glow plug, gaskets of any kind for dissassembly and reassembly?
I saw in one of your other videos an intake air screne you were showing does that come with the units or do i buy that seporate? Curious if installed and used properly how often do they get carboned or need repair? Thanks for the great vids and info mike
Hi Michael,
Sorry I missed this post.
I know of no Chinese heater with a high altitude kit accessory. However if you run a high Kerro: Diesel mix, say 80:20, it greatly reduces the carbon buildup from a poor O2 mix from high altitude use.
Spare parts depend on the remoteness of your travels. On the boat I carry a spare glow plug, spare filter, spare gasket, and spare glow plug screen.
If set up correctly they need very little maintenance. The unit we have in the boat has not needed a service or carbon clean out in over 10 years of part time use. (See video)
JMcK
Hi John. Just wondering if you have any tips on shortening the stainless steel flexible exhaust pipe and making the cut end fit over the exhaust inlet? I have a 600mm piece and I need it to be 300mm. I have cut the pip but can't widen it enough to fit over the exhaust for clamping. Cannot find 300mm lengths online.
Thanks!
Hi Simon,
I have a pipe expand tool which makes things a little easier, however I have also cut fine slots in the pipe which allows it to expand enough to fit, and I have also used copper pipe joiners which you also need to slit to expand or contract.
This way you need to use exhaust pipe adhesive on the joints or high temperature silicone to make an air type seal. JMcK.
@@johnmck1147 Hi John, Another excellent video, many thanks. I came looking for tips on exhaust assembly in a boat, where I need about 2m of exhaust. I wasn't sure what you meant by more exhaust in front of/behind the muffler: which is the front - the heater end? I haven't played with exhaust sealant since I was a teenager and would think that the hard setting pastes were a bad idea? You mention high temperature silicone - any pointers here, or tips? Many thanks.
Jonathan Webb
Hi Jonathan, better to have more exhaust pipe before the muffler. Heater, long exhaust, muffler, short exhaust then outlet. High temperature silicone makes a good seal. JMcK
@@johnmck1147 Many thanks, much appreciated. I'm spreading the news about your channel.
Hi Simon, I must have missed your post. Yes, just cut the ss pipe where you want and cut 4 or 5 slits in the end with a fine hacksaw. You can now spread the pipe to fit. Use exhaust sealant or high temperature silicone to seal. JMcK
Great information, done properly. thank you so much for this
Thank you. JMcK
Thank you John for the great work you have done on there heaters. I would like to use one in my workshop but don't have an outside wall to pass the exhaust through. Do you think putting the exhaust into a vertical pipe of say 75mm up through the roof would work. The height of the roof is around 3m. Would I need perhaps some sort of extraction fan as well?
Yes, that will work. You could even probably use normal exhaust for that length as it is going upwards. On the boat we have a rather long exhaust without issues because it goes upwards.
However you will need some means of exhaust outlet protection outside as you don’t want any wind blowing backwards down the exhaust. JMcK
@@johnmck1147 Thanks John
John - you bloody ripper, loving your informative videos.
Have you done anything with wrapping exhaust and even inlet pipes for thermal and potentially noise efficiency? I’m thinking of the cloth heat wrap type stuff for the exhaust and maybe a foam wrap for the inlet air.
Cheers again mate
Mark
Hi There, sorry for the delay but I am away sailing with intermittent email.
Yes, exhaust heat wrap is good, and does lessen exhaust noise a little.
Thanks for your comments. JMcK
Very good video John. It's making me wonder what would happen if you made a 3 or more muffler system. Would it cause problems with sooting or combustion problems? If not what would the decibels of adding more mufflers than 2?
Hi 4736, generally one muffler is sufficient, unless you are parked very close to a neighbour.
The most noise comes from the fan.
That is another reason why I suggest a larger heater, or two heaters running slow (less noise) is better than a small heater running flat out. JMcK
well darn...i was thinking of rolling 3meters of exhaust pipe around another steel pipe to create a sort of radiator to avoid letting all that exhaust energy just going into the air...but i guess that was really bad idea....
Hi AH,
You can make a heat exchanger, just don't put restrictions in the little diesel heater exhaust. It hates restrictions.
You could get some solid pipe for the exhaust and wrap copper pipe around it for a water heater.
You could make a heat exchanger using two different pipe diameters, one inside the other. Small differences in size you could heat water, large difference in size you could heat air. Use a small pump to circulate the water, and a small computer fan to circulate the air. JMcK
Hi, I've heard that if you use a muffler on the intake as well as the exhaust it's even more quiet!
Hi Paul, yes, provided it is not a baffled muffler like supplied in the kits. My tests showed the supplied intake muffler actually increased the noise. See video. JMcK
Great set of videos and very useful/ Currently replacing and old eberpacher on our tranist RV. One question exhaust tube at 600mm is too long. If I leave it at 600mm and curve it under the van through 180 degrees my toal bends will be nearly 270 (limit?). Alternativelly can I cut the tube in halfand then ave bends less that 280 degree total?
Hi Ian,
The heater will run with 600 mm of exhaust.
It is ideal to have a short exhaust with a minimum of bends for a minimum of restrictions to the intake air and exhaust. The more the restrictions the poorer the combustion burn, the poorer the burn the more carbon, the more carbon produced the more frequent the service required.
But you also need to be practical sometimes, and slightly exceed the recommendations.
Sometimes you may need to try it and see how it goes.
If your Eberspacher worked ok just swap in the Chinese heater. It should work ok.
If your old Eberspacher was a service nightmare, then the Chinese heater will be also.
Good luck. JMcK
@@johnmck1147 ...will it run with less thqn 600mm?
Ian Manzie
Yes. JMcK
Thanks John .. excellent video !!
Glad you liked it, and hope it was helpful. JMcK
How hot does the Exhaust exaust pipe get while running at maximum (boost) mode, can't recall if you used a lazer temp meter in the video or not?.
Great lesson, thanks for sharing this information with us.🇺🇸✌️
@Do One Great, I kinda figured but wasn't sure, thanks for your reply.🇺🇸✌️
So should I drill a hole in the exhaust pipe at the lowest spot? How would that work in a boat? Which is sort of an indoor space where I don't want to have any fumes in .
That tip would only be for an external run of the muffler hose.
Hi O357,
You can't do that in a boat. Suggest you watch my boat video. JMcK
answered a question from an earlier video thanks
Hi John, thanks for the detailed info on this stuff. I was wondering what part of the heater is making the most noise- is it the combustion chamber itself, the exhaust, or the intakes? I notice some people put them in wooden boxes or kennels to cut down the noise and was wondering if you considered that a worthwhile option?
Hi, Clyde, it is the fan that makes the most noise. That is the main reason I suggest buying a larger heater running slower, rather than a smaller heater running flat out. A sound deadened enclosure does help, but the fan noise still comes out the outlet vent when running at a high speed. JMcK
Great info John.
Would you consider testing the little rectangular mufflers available on eBay?
Appreciate all your work on reviewing these heaters.
I was looking at 5kw heaters on aliexpress.com and they vary in price. My question, Are they all
made by one factory and basically the same and just marketed by different retailers or there are truly different manufactures ?
I don’t mind paying more for better quality, but I can't discern the better quality units.
Hi Ji Martin, sorry I missed this and just saw it today.
To the best of my knowledge there are a number of manufactures as the castings and cases vary slightly. Also there are a number of different manufactures making the electronics. Mostly they are excellent for the price, but you do get the odd dud, so I try and select a seller with a local country warehouse and one who advertises free returns. JMcK
Hi John, love your videos. Bought the one you recommended but am not mechanically minded so am having troubles. Two questions: 1. Does the pump stop ticking when working - ours does after a couple of minutes and my partner panics and tells me to turn heater off. 2. Our heater only provided a short black wire with loop to be fixed to the van chassis. Is that why the pump stops working - something about voltage. Should we extend the black wire to the neg of battery? Thanks Anne
Hi Anne,
First I suggest you have a look at the videos on motorhome install.
The fuel pump is a electromagnetic piston dosing pump. It “ticks” when it is working. If it does not tick it is not working and not delivering fuel to the heater.
The heater should be connected directly to a battery. The red wire, with an inline fuse goes to the positive terminal and the black wire to the negative terminal.
The wires supplied with these heaters are a bare minimum size. If they need to be extended to reach the battery you must use bigger wires to prevent voltage drop.
I hope that helps. JMcK
Hi, great videos, I see the link to the pass through exhaust that you posted is no longer available, any idea what I should look for on EBAY for a pass through ?
Hi Chris, search for diesel air heater or parking heater muffler.
Here is a link to get you started in your search.
www.ebay.com.au/itm/24mm-Diesel-Heater-Exhaust-Muffler-Pipe-Silencer-Clamps-Bracket-For-Ebespacher/362935883396?epid=19023397193&hash=item5480aa1684:g:xqAAAOSwJ2pb1ryb
Regards. JMcK
Great video! Now, just to try to find if Chinese have type details of their mufflers. Mine heater came without a any muffler.
Hi Fibra, here is a start for your muffler search.
www.ebay.com.au/itm/Air-Filter-Exhaust-Silencer-Muffler-Bracket-Kit-For-Ebespacher-Diesel-Heater/183705927920?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649
Hi John, I am retrofitting an all-in-one Chinese diesel heater per your instructions in these videos and I am wondering what your best advice is for the placement of the exhaust and air intake? I put the heater up on wooden feet so I have space underneath, but I am wondering if the exhaust pipe should be extended from the 60 cm pipe supplied and put out the front of the heater (controller side) so as not to get exhaust fumes mixed in with the fan at the back of the unit? The heater will sit next to my SUV with the heat pumped in through a long tube through my window (I am sleeping inside the car). I would then put the air intake pipe out the back.
👍
Hi Great info! Is the "baffled" muffler directional? I can't see any indications. I sort of see arrows both sides but the point at opposite direction.
Why all the curves in the exhaust pipe? Wouldn’t it be BEST to just cut the exhaust pipe short enough to point straight downwards (out of the hole of your vehicle), with the muffler attached at the end of the pipe?? Would exhaust fumes actually make their way back through metal or in my case 3/4” of plywood underneath my cargo trailer? Just curious to know what YOU think John.?? Thanks Art
Hi Art, yes, you could mount the muffler directly to the heater if you wished, providing the heater was sealed well, so gases could not come back into the accommodation area. JMcK
Thanks for the videos - very informant. Question, I am replacing a Propex propane forced air heater with one of these on our boat and am trying to use the same inlet and combustion hoses. Both hoses are slightly larger OD than the diesel (I can use a section of the supplied hoses as a shim) but the through hull is wildly different. Do you have any idea what the exhaust temperature is? Depending on the temp, I may need to add some insulation between the exhaust/inlet fitting and the hull.
Hi John,
The exhaust can reach some 100's of deg C and must be isolated from the hull.
You must also use a suitable isolation through hull. You can buy a polished ss exhaust through hull on line. Search " Eberspacher diesel heater marine exhaust through hull"
If you are a handy welder you can make your own or get one made, but probably cheaper to buy one. Have you seen my boat install video showing the through hull?. JMcK
@@johnmck1147 From a search of more videos, I am guessing 600 deg F at high output. The Propex fitting is different (you can look it up on line if you are interested) - it takes care of the input and exhaust. The air intake is just below the exhaust which may serve to keep the temp of the fitting in the reasonable range (or it did with the propane heater). It has a plate offset from the port which may also be problematic but I thought it was a really good idea since it would dissipate the inertial forces of a wave slap. Propex heaters, from LONG conversations with the factory and "local" (only 2,500 miles away) dealer trying to get the thing repaired and working (I think it is the board - I am afraid this unit is headed for the dump), is also very sensitive to combustion hose lengths, so I am hoping the diesel requirements are not too far off. Again, thanks for your help and your videos are first rate and very helpful and informative.
Thank you for all the info. appreciated
👍
Thanks, something I didn't know.
Good engineering.
Thank you. JMcK
Hi John sorry to ask so many questions but the more I look into fitting a unit the more queries it raises before I begin. I want to get the exhaust right as this is the most important bit. In my boat the exhaust will be about 1.5 mts slightly uphill so must I have a drain hole? The distance from water line to thru hull outlet is 52cm so no need for a loop? I guess the Eberspacer sealed muffler does not have a drain hole hence the water trap? Where to obtain a drain unit like you have on your boat and assume this just mates with the outlet on the heater unit, does this type not leak gas too? By the way your series of videos are superb-you have a wealth of knowledge. With thanks again.
Hi Eric, you should have an exhaust loop on a boat to keep out rain, sea spray, and wave slap from running back down the exhaust and into the heater.
Hot exhaust gas, as it cools, sucks into the exhaust large amounts of external cool moist air, and lots of water condenses out of this air. You need a condensate trap at the lowest point. This is usually at the heater.
The condensate trap has water in it and stops gas escaping into the boat, It works like a water trap in a toilet or a sink. You can get one made or buy on line.
Search something like " Eberspacher diesel heater condensate or marine water trap" .
A marine muffler is gas tight. Also search under Eberspacher air heater marine muffler.
Cheers, JMcK
John - thanks for these terrific videos - they are really most helpful. A really dumb question but if the exhaust temperature is something like 400 to 650 deg F and the condensation (my exhaust run is much shorter than yours) amounts to less than a teaspoon, would not the fluid boil off within min. of firing the heater up? Thanks. John Coppedge
Hi John,
Yes that is correct in many cases.
But even with a short exhaust just a tablespoon of condensation water trapped in the exhaust can cause back pressure in the heater, preventing combustion air to enter the burner causing a hard start. The little fan in these heaters is not very powerful and you restrict the exhaust you restrict the inlet combustion air.
Also sometimes traces of unburnt diesel can leak into the exhaust. If that pools in the bottom of an exhaust loop it can be interesting when the exhaust is hot enough to ignite it. JMcK
Very very helpful John. Thanks heaps for a great set of clips. Quick question. Can I join 3 straight through mufflers as I have them and would it be of any benefit? Thanks heaps regards Peter.
Dave McLuckie did , tho he didn't specifically address excessive restriction issues. i don't recall if he used a db meter , but a 2nd , then 3rd muffler were Very audibly noticable on the mic. As i recall tho , he was using the REALLY cheap Chi. mufflers that were EMPTY inside. Yup , that's right - EMPTY : No perf tube , NO matting , just an expansion space ! ( that's what i got with mine ) The 3rd muffler made it whisper quiet. i was quite surprised.
Hi John, firstly great video & info you have provided! My question is when you say "you must have more exhaust in front of the muffler and less exhaust behind the muffler", which is the front and which is behind? Do you mean after the muffler and before the muffler? Thanks
Hi Frank, it is better, in my opinion, (but not critical) to have the muffler closer to the end of the exhaust run. ie, more exhaust pipe before the muffler and only a little bit of exhaust pipe after the muffler. This is not like a car exhaust with positive displacement of the exhaust gases, but exhaust outflow relies on a very tiny fan, and I feel it is better to have a restriction in the pipe close to the end of exhaust, rather than the beginning. Not so critical with a less restrictive flow through muffler. JMcK
Hi John thanks 4 all the info. now i know way my heater was smoking . Question is thare a maximum lenkt of the outgoing (warm) air ? i whant to bild a ring in mij camper. Gretings
Hi Mr Zx, the longer the length the greater the restriction and the lesser the volume. However I have seen outlet tube lengths of 10 m (30 ft) in boats that work ok.
On the subject of exhausts, what are your thoughts on an upright exhaust stack if the heater is sideways mounted? Considering this option to pipe the exhaust out of the roof (with the exhaust in an enclosed box like a house flue) so fumes are airborne.
Hi Mr C,
If the heater is sideways mounted you must make sure the the glow plug is on the top.
You would need a 90° bend in the exhaust to make it go upwards.
An upwards exhaust is very good and draws well but you need another bend at the top or some other form of rain deflector at the top.
You will also need a small drain hole at the bottom of exhaust to drain away condensation.
If the bottom of exhaust is in accommodation space you need a water trap condensate drain like in my boat video.
Cheers. JMcK
Thank you, sir.
Have you tried the original welded tube mufflers that come with the eberspachers for marine use? They have the pipes permanently welded either side as you need a sealed exhaust system on a boat. These chinese mufflers are not suitable for enclosed systems as they are not sealed.
Yes Andy, have a look at the boat install video in this series. Thanks fo the comment. JMcK
What do you mean by can't be used in "enclosed systems"
Hi John,
Just found this video and it is most wonderful. I'm in a position where I need to pipe exhuast a fair distance (3-4m) from the heater.. Am i wrong to install an exhaust fan to assist in sucking the exhaust away? Is that likely to cause issues?
Hi Tim, I don't see an issue with that, it is a long exhaust.
If the exhaust run in an upwards angle the exhaust will flow well.
If exhaust angles downwards you will have back pressure issues without some help.
Cheers, JMcK
@@johnmck1147 Awesome, Thank you. I've got it mounted in the workshop, porting the exhaust staright outside but for the sake of the neighbours want to run some pvc conduit and mounnt a fan to suck the rest up to elevationn to be better caught on the wind.
You made the comment about the back pressure, just thought to query it. :))
Do you recommend using a turret mount when installing these into a caravan?, I thought as long as I cut the hole out around the intake/exhaust I should probably be okay
Hi Shane,
It is preferable to use a turret mount or similar when mounting through a plywood or composite floor.
If you can't get a turret floor plate you can use a metal 100 mm gutter down pipe adaptor to give you a metal guard around the cut out hole.
If you are unable to use a turret mount or metal line the combustion intake and exhaust hole, the cutout in the wood floor must be a minimum of 100 mm dia, and the plywood end grain well sealed against moisture.
Cheers, JMcK
Hi John thanks for your time
I’ve read several comments about insects/wasps nesting in combustion lines
My question for you what can be used to make a stainless steel mesh filter so as to not cause problem like you mentioned in this Video
Thanks Rick
Hi Rick,
If the intake is mounted in a clean space mesh filters are ok.
If the intake is in a dirty space such as under a caravan or vehicle that kicks up dirt moisture and dust you need a foam intake filter.
Stainless mesh filters that will suit can be bought at a hardware store plumbing section or an irrigation supplier.
You can also buy them on eBay from a number of suppliers. Below is just one to start you off.
www.ebay.com.au/itm/25mm-Air-Intake-Filter-Silencer-For-Dometic-Eberspacher-Webasto-Diesel-Heater/293113012675?epid=14028170397&hash=item443ee5a1c3:g:jcQAAOSwaVRcQEbK
Foam type air filters that will suit can be bought at a motorbike shop.
Cheers, JMcK
fly screen off a window can be wrapped around the silencer that came with it, they dont have to be stainless, but would need to be checked once in a while depending on how often you use it, to clean
Hi Rich,
Easier to buy one, there are many sold for $6 or $7. Check out this supplier as a start.
www.ebay.com.au/itm/25mm-Air-Intake-Filter-Silencer-For-Dometic-Eberspacher-Webasto-Diesel-Heater-/293113012675?hash=item443ee5a1c3
Cheers, JMcK
Hi John, Do you have any recommended sources to buy the straight through mufflers ? Its difficult to find them; also the mufflers should come welded on the ingress/egress pipes as I have noticed that some exhaust comes from the water drain hole and between the pipe and exhaust casing on the muffler that I received with the unit
Hi John, with an all-in-one unit placed outside an SUV do you need to use ducting to source the fresh air from inside the cabin to avoid getting some exhaust fumes inside the car? Also, this will make for warmer air coming out of the heater…
Hi DP,
Yes, you can recirculate the air if you wish. Whether you heat fresh air or recirculated air is a personal choice. However, I personally think in your case it not worth the effort, and I also suspect you will get too hot heating recirculated air. The all in one heaters use a 5 Kw heater and that size heater will easily heat an SUV.
Just make sure exhaust gases can't be sucked into the hot air intake. If you are going to go to the effort to put ducting on the intake side of the heater, you could you could duct in fresh air well away from the exhaust, or put it in the SUV and recirculate it if you wish. JMcK
@@johnmck1147 Ok! Thanks again!
Hi I've seen a comment that useing spiral pipe rather than the ribed type pipe supplied would be quieter with no silencer, than a riibed pipe with a silencer, I've ordered some but not here yet. I could not make out if you joined the two silencers with tin can rapped round and clamped, am i wrong?
Is it fine to have the muffler at the end of the exhuast? Thanks for the videos, very helpful!
Sorry, I missed this Daniel. Yes, it is ok to have a muffler at the end of the exhaust. JMcK
Hi John. Is there any pros or cons of using a string of pass thru mufflers ? They are so small and light so waddayafink buddy ?
What I haven't seen in this series is how to attach an extension to the existing exhaust pipe. The two ends are the same diameter. Should I have ordered a connector?
Hi MsL.
You can buy or make a joiner.
Hi John your videos have been very helpful to me and others. I am installing a 2kw heater in a small boat. My exhaust will be 1.5mts long and I am considering not fitting a muffler. Reason being that the exhaust will exit the boat via a stern locker and I don't want moisture/unburnt diesel dripping into the locker from the muffler. My question' s are is it OK not to have a muffler and is it OK not to have a drain hole (No muffler)?
Hi Eric, it is not essential to have a muffler, the heater will just be a little noisier.
If the exhaust travels upwards you will need a water trap, see video on boat install. Without a water trap condensate will pool in your combustion chamber. JMcK
Very good, thanks for info.
John. Is it possible to position the heater upside down, with the intake and exhaust ports pointing up? For my application, positioning the heater with the ports up would make installation easier. Thanks!
Sorry, NO.
Oh, it will work for a while, just as your motor car engine will run without cooling water or any engine oil, for a while. Diesel will start to pool at the bottom of the burner chamber, flood the glow plug and burner screens and then the heater will not start.
You can however mount the heater on its side, provided it is the side with the glow plug on the top.
Regards, JMcK
thanks!