I did my advanced training with the IAM over the last year, and I passed my test (not a first) 3 weeks ago. Initially I was disconcerted by the emphasis on progress and I think that some observers pushed it way too much, but other observers were much more circumspect. On my test, the conditions were great, but I still sat at round 55 on the nationals and didn’t overtake at all (apart from the motorway portion of the test). When we got back for the debrief, the examiner asked my why I didn’t overtake (there were two opportunities where I could have squeezed in an overtake), I told him that I didn’t feel that it was worthwhile overtaking just to gain a few extra yards, or - with the other one, that I didn’t feel that it was safe for me.. he accepted that, and scored me a 2 on progress.. I’ve never been one for speed, I’m quite happy to show more restraint than desperation to eke out every inch of speed.. I undertook the training with the IAM to become a safer rider, not to become the next Valentino Rossi, I take my wife on the bike for leisurely rides and have no desire to kill her or myself. I could never get to grips with siting 1 second behind a car to get ready for an overtake - the risk factor seems too high IMO. The overall training by the IAM was top drawer though, I believe I’m a much safer rider now than before I undertook the course, it was absolutely money well spent!
@michaelggriffiths thank you for this comment, much appreciated to hear about your experience. With advanced training I think its important to remember that we are not training to be emergency response riders so the goal is indeed improvement of safety. But however fast we ride for whatever purpose, safety has to be the overriding factor. As we used to say, blue lights dont allow you to ride or drive dangerously or do the impossible, and if you crash you cause another problem and are no use to anyone. Any advanced rider who puts speed above safety is not, IMHO, an advanced rider. All the best.
This is a very interesting topic 👍 it is nice to see everyone point of view in the same situation! Everybody should ride at their own pace and shouldn't feel pressurised by others to do otherwise 👍 Be aware and ride safe, that is the difference between being dead or alive! Motorbikes are fun but aren't toys, handle them in the wrong way and you will get burned very badly! Cool video, thank you 👍
Currently training with the local IAM group to become an Advanced Motorcyclist. I've had numerous Observers comment about lack of overtaking/progress in certain situations. Several aspects of advanced training have been difficult to master for me- riding a few mph below the limit should not be scope for improvement. Showing restraint is just as important in riding and keeping points off your licence
I did Bike Safe some years back, after a 20 year gap in riding. Excellent day out. A couple of years later I did my IAM Advanced Rider course (and passed). My examiner was an ex-Class One Police Motorcyclist. Firm but fair. My training up to the test was truly excellent. I now use most of the techniques without thinking about them.
Making good and sensible progress is not necessarily being able to ride at the NSL anywhere. This is proved by say filtering which should be safe but slowly done and that's nothing like at the NSL. Its about going forward and not necessarily being forced to stop. Safety is the key and the major consideration to everything we do on the roads and everything else, including the making of progress takes a back seat to that. As a police officer on normal patrol duties I would not take a major road at the speed limit unless all other traffic was doing that speed and I would be holding up traffic if i was doing say 55 mph. But if the other traffic is doing that 55 mph then I would be quite happy to do just that speed. Without any need to overtake. Many a video I see of advanced riders doing the NSL on our country roads and they are always catching up with all other drivers doing less and so they end up with endless and to my mind with overtakes that would not be necessary and so less dangerous if they were to slow slightly and maintain road speed making good progress but holding back. The first rule of overtake is asking oneself is there a NEED to overtake. A police officer going somewhere where he is needed would say yes and commit to overtakes but we as civilians in many instances don't have that NEED too and therefore it begs the question, why should we we when we are making as much progress as others have to put ourselves and lets face it, others at risk on each and every overtake. Who is to say that we can all ride at the NSL round bends on country roads with safety all the time. One mans meat is another mans poison and to try and take bends at a higher speed is something we civilians should not be required to do. I have seen many a video of so called advanced riders taking bends at speeds and its obvious that they don't have the safe stopping distances in mind at all. I have followed so called advanced riders and shivered at the speed in which some take blind bends or used inappropriate speeds and gotten away with it. Even some police forces now recognise that safety outdoes the making of faster progress all the time and one should not be forced or coersed into making progress faster than one would want to. Its all designed as said on what we now call Police Roadcraft which is a watered down version of the police drivers Training Manual. otherwise known as The BIBLE. It was in 1937 primarily designed to save police officer lives. They only started motorised patrols in 1931 and many officers were killed and injured at the beginning so it was decided that they needed some form of training. Keeping police officers safe on our roads in all circumstance. Many of which a normal civilian would be exposed to but also at driving or riding skills at speeds and under certain circumstances that a civilian would not find or should not find themselves in at all. The making of fast progress is a bye product of the historic need for police officers to sometimes exceed the now speed limits [ there were no speed limits until the mid 60's when they were first introduced for country roads ] and as such with the modern speed limits as they now are there sees to be no need to feel the need to travel at higher speed, understanding that all training bodies and safety organisations do agree that the speed limit is not a target to be reached but it appears that does not apply to advanced rider training. Thinks about it as you will and decide for yourselves.
I've done the Roadsmart training and am currently an Observer. My take is the coaching provides a rider with the tools to be able to 'make progress'. You do not need to 'get an overtake in' to pass the Roadsmart test, although you would be 'marked down' for missing a golden opportunity to overtake. If your vision is up and your observation is good, making progress is easy.
Yep. Good observation makes overtakes easy and safe because you know they're on way before you execute the move. Also you know when it's not on and take appropriate action to ensure you're in the best possible position for your safety. Having the confidence to know when it's good and when it isn't is critical in my mind and the key to that is good observation. That's why the information stage runs right through IPSGA.
Some very good observations here. I wouldn't want to be pushed beyond what I was comfortable with and wouldn't be sticking with an instructor who pressurised me. Good to see you out on the new bike. Ride safe.
I think you’ve summed things up brilliantly in this video about what advanced trading should be about, and the sometimes misplaced emphasis that can be applied to speed and progress!! 👍
Many years ago, I was a “Gold Level” (ie advanced level) instructor with the “Star Rider” scheme run by the then Department of the Environment. Our bible was “Motorcycle Roadcraft”, which hasn’t changed that much in the intervening years. In teaching the system of motorcycle control, now called “IPSGA”, we would tell students that anyone riding at 35mph on a 60mph road would not impress us by making all the recommended observations, position adjustments etc. The point was that the system was meant to be used at normal road speeds, so we would expect to see them “make progress”, at the same time putting the system principles into operation. Wind forward 30+ years, I come back to biking after a long gap and enrol in an advanced training course. I realise, to my dismay, that “making progress” now seems to mean “go as fast as you legally can, and make sure to take every possible overtaking opportunity”. Not what I have ever understood to be the intended message. So thank you for your video, insightful as always!
Good advice and information as always. I've learned so much since first embarking on advanced rider training years ago. The system teaches a completely new way of riding safer in general. It becomes your way of riding at all times and you don't have to think about it. It's of real benefit to all road users. I just wished it was a requirement for all riders and drivers.
Interesting to hear your thoughts. I tend to agree with much said here. Ironically...best progress often achieved by good planning over & above ultimate legal pace. Thanks
Currently on the IAM course (ELAM Branch are excellent) and always look out for your videos. You have helped me greatly. Many thanks for your knowledge Sir.
Another informative and well presented video, thanks. If I may add something though - making progress is not all about speed, it could be filtering safety though traffic, choosing the best lane of traffic in queues, getting up to the safe/legal speed quickly, or not dithering at T junctions. Just “getting on with it” will probably get you there quicker than riding faster 😀
i am an advanced rider,and on the course i took IAM 3 people who had been riding for over 60 years between them dropped out because of this ,speed speed progress , the instructor said well its how the police ride and are trained , the guy said thats fine on a bike with all his lights and sirens most drives keep out of the way , very different for a normal rider ,i took that on board ,but again great video thank you
Initially though IMA was the way to go to become a better rider but the progression that is actively forced is incredibly unsafe. It’s fine if you are a police rider but progression just for the sake of it often sacrificing safety is not for me and I decided to leave it.
I passed the IAM test 2 years ago having started as a very inexperienced and nervous rider. The observers were clear to a man, making progress comes from applying the system and not an end in itself. I knew that I wanted to be a confident rider in control. That aspect often gets missed. Sitting in traffic under the control of drivers ahead and behind is not a good place to be and using the skills, techniques and system that I have been taught allows me to make progress and control my bit of the road. It's definitely worked well for me however I have now seen a few associates whose expectation of advanced riding is very different and is wholly focused on their own interpretation of safety coupled with the fact that RoSPA and IAM are safety charities. They will say things like it's a limit, not a target and I'm not in any hurry, I'm riding for pleasure. I suspect that many of those riders never bridge the gap of understanding that safety comes from being in control and having a broad margin to work with when they encounter hazards on the road.
You don't have to ride to the limit or a fixed target or be in any hurry or ride just for pleasure and fail to take into account your safety and the safety of others. . Its all combined in safety as one does these things and still has safety upermost in ones mind. Just because you don't want to go mad it doesn't mean that its wrong at all and to think otherwise is just not right. I have been riding defensively for over 55 years now and enjoyed 99.9% of it. You can't ask or expect any more fulfilment than having been on a ride well executed, with no apparent danger and no mishaps at all and return home with a bloody big grin on ones face and a great feeling off satisfaction.
Wish more people would do adv rider course. Did mine 10 years since and although I was a very experienced rider and thought I was pretty handy, I still picked up so many things. On the progress thing..... I am sometimes a bit lazy and dont take all the opportunities I should/could, it can depend on my mood and the scenery !! .... sometimes if you are on a great road with beautiful surroundings its nice to back off and take things in a bit. Part of the attraction of bikes for me. So making progress can be a bit subjective at times. Of course, there are times when its necessary for safety. I think its making the determination when its most suitable and acting accordingly, in some situations its best to clear the area promptly and forget the nice scenery ! Think your video was just about spot on. The adv riders I cant fathom are those that are genuinely nervous of wet weather riding which I find really strange if you have done the full IAM or RoSPA..... !! Safe riding folks 👍
Great video Phil 👍 and if anyone in southeast Kent is looking to do courses I can highly recommend Invicta motorcycle training. Teachers are amazing and very professional.
Just booked my cbt 😮😮 Been riding for the last 10 years by only watching TH-cam but finally I booked my cbt yesterday. You don't know me but wish me luck 😂😅
Excellent video. I have completed 10 observed rides now feel much more confident in my riding (I am 60 and have passed my test in April 2022). However, I am thinking of taking a break and embedding these lessons as I lack the experience of many. I can make good progress and find this invaluable especially in urban settings, but I don’t feel the need to do 60 on country roads although I don’t lack the confidence to do so. I was pushed to overtaking on occasions but that is my lack of experience so I know I must keep pushing myself. The main reason for taking a rest is that the scheme I was on was aiming for a certificate and this was taking away some of the enjoyment in riding, but that’s a personal thing (I’ve done too many exams in my life!). Cars gaining is frequent occurrence approach speed limit increases; annoyingly many drivers seem to think they need to accelerate when they ‘see’ the sign, not when they pass it. 😊
Another great informative video explained very well and answered many all of my queries so thank you. I always give a reason for my actions although being picked up for doing 57 in a 60 for me is a bit harsh, especially being o a Goldwing which is nearly 1/2 a ton with me on it. My last observed ride a week ago by my mentor said I am test ready which is nice to hear. For me advance training is a must and should be a legal requirement within 3 months of passing your test. That safety bubble is so important and understanding IPSGA & TUG. I read in the Evening Standard today over 1000 motorcyclists in london are killed or seriously injured most of them are L plate scooter riders. A days course doesn’t prepare a 17 year old to ride safely on the roads. It looks like laws could be changed at last. My son is 23 and did his CBT and didn’t have a clue luckily enough he has now passed his test and has done bike Fire Bike road and Fire Bike slow manoeuvre courses which has brought his standard of riding along no end. Unfortunately the Bike Safe and Fire Bike course only seem to have 40 year old and over attending when should be young riders as well as they are higher risk. It seems being as safe as possible and wanting to learn mentality comes with age. All the best Matt 👍🏻
I was researching advanced rider training options and found one of your videos which had a link to this one. Very informative and certainly makes sense (I have subscribed to your channel now). It's what I would expect from advanced riding - acquiring skills, experience and confidence and by using these, "making progress" becomes almost automatic as you significantly reduce (or remove) hesitancy and complacency. There is a local IAM group but I can also do DVSA training through a local riding school. Not sure which is best for me at the moment - they both have their merits. I'd be interested if anyone has tried both and can compare them.
Having taken a couple of courses, the term "Progress" did seem a bit counter-intuitive outside of the emergency services, however I found the experience useful as it increases your processing speed/decision making which is useful in all situations, even if you just want a pootle. I started with an observed ride on the Bikesafe scheme, which was very useful having constructive critique of your riding ability.
There is a saying that 'any idiot can ride fast but a safe rider knows when to slow.' Stay slow and keep alive. What's the point in always doing 60 in a 60 limit on our small narrow country roads., Inevitably catching up with everything else and feeling the need to overtake them thus creating greater danger numerous times to m not only yourself but all other road users, when by dropping say just 5 mph one can comfortably ride without the need for such dangerous manoeuvres such as overtakes. Slow before bends and go smoothly round with both safety and satisfaction. If slowing traffic down slow indicate in and just let them pass. Simplesssss.
To be honest when i done my direct access training 2yr ago. They had two trainers. One was so pushy on this subject. Always in my ear everytime you pulled away from junctions roundabouts etc regardless of the situation or what i did.
If I’m out on my bike, I don’t push my tyres to the limit. I rely on about 6/10ths of their adhesion ( I’m guessing) and keep the other 4/10 ths for recovery after hitting gravel diesel a manhole that I couldn’t see or couldn’t avoid. By the same token I don’t take every overtaking opportunity as I don’t see every vehicle ahead of me on the road to be a challenge that I HAVE to get past. Or indeed to ride at the speed limit. It’s a ceiling not a goal. Chill the fck out and enjoy the ride and hopefully have a bit of luck up your sleeve. I can’t see that standing right on the cliff edge all the time is an enjoyable or enviable position. That’s riding in a TT and that’s very ,very different
You do right. My advice that I got was never exceed 70% of your potential or that of your bike indeed if a bike will do say 150 mph don't exceed 50% or it as it will do more than many can handle. Stay cool, drop back in queues, never hurry anywhere , dont be flustered and always be comfortable in what you wear, in what you do on a bike and keep safe.
Interesting video, but "opportunity for an overtake" still sounds like you cant just enjoy the ride and you have to get somewhere as quickly as possible, albeit safely. This is what has put me off IAM/RoSPA as i want to be safer/more confident, but have no interest in overtaking, particularly when on a classic bike.
thanks for your comments. I do hear what you say, and I i have heard often about why IAM etc are off putting. When we train to an enhanced/advanced level, the overtaking process has to be present, as a competent rider needs to be able to do it safely. So as an instructor, I want to see that the rider has the skill and competency to do it for when it may be necessary. However, it isnt the be all and end all and this is where the Enhanced rider scheme can be useful. As long as we have the knowledge and the skill to overtake, it doesnt have to be the preoccupation. And on classic bike i can understand the desire to enjoy the ride. So if you would like extra training, dont be put off, but maybe a school or the ERS scheme may be better for you than IAM ROSPA etc. All the best
@@MotorcyclePWR I like that you say overtaking when 'necessary'. Its the first rule of any overtake and on page one of Overtaking in Roadcraft. Many riders get mistaken with the NEED to overtake and just WANT to or believe that they should and that puts unnecessary pressure on them to commit to one or more of them or indeed all of the time. Perhaps when following any vehicle and giving the safe stopping distances they should consider the consequences more and stay back until it becomes NECESSARY which in many case means NOT TO AT ALL . After all a police officer on normal patrol duties doesn't go haring around like a lunatic. He usually sticks to and adopts the speeds of other vehicles, follows as required and keeps an eye out of offenders etc. He basically will only overtake if he deems it NECESSARY for his job so we should all do the same. As we are not in his job we would not feel it necessary to overtake at every opportunity that arises. Making everything into an overtake increasing our risk and the risk to others exponentially. Then by reducing the numbers of overtakes required the roads would be a safer place as too many overtakes lead to more accidents deaths and injuries as shown on police stats every year. Perhaps they should be banned and riders will basically have to maintain the status quo when it could just be following the speed of traffic around them. We are not police officers and should not be trained to make overtakes as they are at times required to do so and only when it is NECESSARY to do so. It would be far safer for us and all other road users for unnecessary overtakes not to be required to commit to at all.
You need to understand what the opportunity for an overtake is first and foremost so that you recognise when to overtake safely, you don’t have to over take at every opportunity, but you need to recognise the correct opportunity should you wish to make an overtake that’s all
Interesting video. Thanks. I have a question: on these advanced rider courses, can you temporarily exceed the speed limit in order to overtake and then revert to the limit....or should you never exceed the.limit under any circumstances? I'm assuming the latter but I wanted to check. Thanks.
You are not encouraged to speed. If u speed when overtaking, u risk the penalty(and a fail) That said, safety is of a higher concern, and if u have committed to an overtake, then a little excess over the limit may be the safest option........ excess speed is obviously discouragedd. If u need to break the speed limit in order to consider the overtake, then u shouldn't!
Needs more info. Needs more examples. If they are doing 28 in a 30? If they are doing 20 in a 30? If they are doing 35 in a 50? If they are doing 56 in a 60?
IAM observer here In you book it says safety at all times. Progress can be made in many ways ie filtering good clean overtakes and straight lining Stick to the law always.
Unfortunately many of those manoeuvres you mentioned if done wrong or wrongly taught or done inappropriately can easily lead one into great danger and whilst I believe that the police and emergency services could and should maybe use those practises as and when required to do so I don't ultimately believe that they were intended to be used by the general public and thus they should not be taught at any level to civilians. If you include car drivers can you imagine the state of our roads if all drivers and riders could wrong side when and where they thought they could do.? There would be mayhem on our country roads. It's bad enough with the dangerous training given on overtakes, the way we did and still do and of making progress. Both of which cause more deaths and serious injuries than any other causes on our roads today. .
My only issue with riders uncomfortable to make progress, as its called, is what their motivation for advanced training is. If you genuinely think the pace you ride is safe, then why seek an opinion on it. Of course as your title states, advanced riding is not just about speed, but I do think riders sign up for it, without a clear understanding of what they hope to gain from it.
Yes possibly many do. Some just want a "professional" set of eyes on their riding and some are aware they lack confidence in some areas. Thats why i like flexible courses to suit the individual, hopefully they come away with something useful they didnt have before. All the best
I’ve just written an article on this subject. Safety is paramount. Restraint holds priority. Riding to the limit where safe shouldn’t be challenging. If restraint is due it should be shown. I’m an IAM examiner. If someone straight lines a roundabout having checked it’s safe to do so they would earn praise. So I disagree with that comment. Nice bike. I have one 🙂
Thank you for your comment, much appreciated. I agree with all you say, not sure if and what comment you disagree with re straight lining roundabouts but I also concur, if it’s safe and planned then of course! All the best, ride safe
@sanemancured thank you, I hope I didn’t create that impression, apologies if I did, straight lining would be frowned upon at test standard and a likely fail, but post test/IAM etc indeed as you say praise if safe. All the best
@@MotorcyclePWR So its a NOT TO DO whilst in training and a possible FAIL IN ANY EXAM. However from what I am reading, you are instructors and examiners and are both agreeing that its ok to do it with impunity at all other times. So long as the someone doing it decides that it is safe to do so. Is that a subjective or an objective observation. It seem that there is a difference of opinion here and attitude. That one should do what one needs to do to satisfy the assessor and examiner pass the advanced test but then to be able to do other things that might be considered to be dangerous or at least a bad practise by sacrificing not only ones own safety put possibly the safety of all other road users. What about riding to the 'LIMIT' is that also at the discretion of the rider . Is that a subjective or objective observation done solely by the motorcyclists at the time. Is it because that's what motorcyclists are expected to do or because its become used to. So it becomes an acceptable practise at all times even tho its a bad practise. One not recommended in any ones Training manual. Except for use by police and other emergency services. in emergencies. .
@rcraven1013 thanks again for your comments. I dont think there is a difference in opinion or attitude. I think it is about seeing things in perspective and being realistic. When one works in a particular area for many years the understanding of variances and importantly WHY those variance's exist are clearer to some on the outside. Whether we are talking about straight lining a roundabout or riding to the "limit", do you mean a bikes, riders or speed limit? , no one in their right mind condones, trains or recommends anything dangerous to be done with impunity. There is a reason that training is in stages and that newer and more complex issues are dealt with as a riders experience and ability improves. Training that is delivered in tune with a riders personal abilities, not a one size fits all. Isn't that why Sec 3 RTA 1988 exists? Isnt that why so much of driving actions are not absolute offences but based upon actions, cause and effect? In the same way that riding or driving is assessed for a test standard, whether it be full licence or advanced? Riding or driving isn't painting by numbers, and one of the reasons a L rider cant straight line a roundabout is because an examiner has a small window of opportunity to assess the candidate, therefore he does not have the luxury of seeing X roundabout negotiated correctly and Y r/a straight lined, because on such a short test it may be luck that it was "safe". Plus a DVSA test does not have the opportunity for the candidate to explain their actions and though processes. Differences have to exist, and safe is safe, its not just my or some other examiners trainers "opinion". Its based on objective fact, and lets not forget that negotiating a roundabout "correctly" to DVSA test standard does not necessarily mean that it is safe. However, at post test standard, a motorcycle that travels a straight line is more stable, so the ability to straight line a roundabout isn't just about progress, its potentially increasing safety. eg; on way home from nights, temperature drops to around 0, its been raining etc. What would I prefer, big curves or straight line?! I could but dont want to write war and peace on the subject, but if its legal, safe with regard to all circumstances, suitable for the riders ability, then what's the issue? Lets be aware that if we constantly perform and accept the lowest common denominator of ability, adopt a painting by numbers attitude which I think is prevalent in society now, we de-skill and underperform and we discourage good thinking road users. Many of our riders are not idiots, and can learn and be discerning about what they put into practice on the road, and as part of my teaching I will never treat any student as if they cant think for themselves! Hope this helps, all the best
There seems to be an emphasis on the reasons why some riders are going slower than others. Many is the time I have watched advanced videos and the author is riding at the NSL ie 60 mph. on a country road. Nothing wrong with that in itself. However by doing so they invariably end up behind other vehicles that are not doing that speed but maybe just below it. Then I see loads of following closely for any opportunity to overtake being made and it appears that one must adhere to a maximum speed obtainable at all costs and thus if that is so then bikers are putting themselves at an increased risk by continually overtaking everything that apparently holds them up. Overtakes are the bane of motorcyclists but unfortunately stats show that if done wrong they are responsible for many a death or serious injury to bikers or others.. So my argument is that if on a run out without any need to speed why not use ones brain cells, watch what is happening and forget about using speed to make greater progress as its not specifically required. By being sensible and saying no I am not going to overtake then one is making that decision for a reason and its not because the the examiner or others feel that one is just being lazy or inattentive or incapable at all. I was once marked down for not overtaking on an assessment ride.. However after the assessor took the lead he did not overtake either as the road circumstances were such that it would have been extremely difficult or dangerous to do so. Plus my bike was far less powerful than his being only a single pot and he had more than twice my BHP and four cylinders between his legs. I think his brain was there also.
Is there a minimum power to weight ratio bike needed for the advanced course? I’m just shortlisting candidates for my first big bike and want to do an advanced course to keep updating my skills
Just have enough power on tap to commit to safe overtakes maxed out at 70 mph. and climb hills without too much power and speed loss. ie slowing on a motorway hill to 40 mph? to be able to maintain the legal speed limits on a motorway or any other road that they chose to use.
Thank you for your question. All I have seen as a requirement for advanced training is a bike capable of achieving and maintaining the National Speed Limit. This would seem a sensible requirement to enable all aspects of training, although in fairness some bikes are easier to ride than others, especially at low speeds. I wish you well with your bike choice and further training.
The speed limit is just that a limit,not a target! Observation and knowing what to do in the event a situation,reading that situation as early as possible leads to safe riding IMHO. EDIT:- just to add,I'm absolutely sick and fed up with tailgaters when I'm riding or driving at the speed limit,these people are 90+% young women!
I was tolled when going for full licence to drive faster only once and i felt like he was saying that because thats what he was taught. But i was taught motorcycles should move through traffic and i agree. Filter through for safety and space. Though trying to tell my girlfriend this when she pillion is apparently hard to understand. She dose not like filtering at all though..the speed limits plenty fast enough for her and like they say. Its what you do with it that counts
The IAM today have no idea what advanced riding really is and lie about training thinking bikers. There isn't a single thinking biker in the IAM. Even the chief examiner of the IAM doesn't know what thinking is....
What you say is not really true. There is a mixture of standards within the IAM (and RoSPA), but those that have passed were considered safe on the day. Does that mean they are all thinking riders? No. It does sound like you have had a bad experience. Try not to tarnish all bikers the same.
20mph zone keep to 20mph Get Overtaken I can not speed up I be breaking the Speed limit Keep what bike says if google maps says 14mph bike says 20mph What do i do go 3mph more keep to the bike speed Dash board
Best to keep to the speed limited by your speedometer reading and that means if riding at 30mph one might be only doing 27/8mph but you will not be done for speeding. Any time you start to add on for so called discrepancies then you run the risk of exceeding the speed limit and putting yourself forward for a possible prosecution. If we all drove or rode to our speedometer readings the world and our roads would be a safer place.
@@LiamE69 Many of the 20mph limits around schools are just a recommendation and therefore one chooses to obey them or not at ones peril if something untoward happens as result of riding at a higher speed. However if the 20 mph limit is within a red circle it is a mandatory sign and so it MUST BE OBEYED .....LAWFULLY..
I did my advanced training with the IAM over the last year, and I passed my test (not a first) 3 weeks ago. Initially I was disconcerted by the emphasis on progress and I think that some observers pushed it way too much, but other observers were much more circumspect.
On my test, the conditions were great, but I still sat at round 55 on the nationals and didn’t overtake at all (apart from the motorway portion of the test).
When we got back for the debrief, the examiner asked my why I didn’t overtake (there were two opportunities where I could have squeezed in an overtake), I told him that I didn’t feel that it was worthwhile overtaking just to gain a few extra yards, or - with the other one, that I didn’t feel that it was safe for me.. he accepted that, and scored me a 2 on progress..
I’ve never been one for speed, I’m quite happy to show more restraint than desperation to eke out every inch of speed..
I undertook the training with the IAM to become a safer rider, not to become the next Valentino Rossi, I take my wife on the bike for leisurely rides and have no desire to kill her or myself.
I could never get to grips with siting 1 second behind a car to get ready for an overtake - the risk factor seems too high IMO.
The overall training by the IAM was top drawer though, I believe I’m a much safer rider now than before I undertook the course, it was absolutely money well spent!
@michaelggriffiths thank you for this comment, much appreciated to hear about your experience.
With advanced training I think its important to remember that we are not training to be emergency response riders so the goal is indeed improvement of safety.
But however fast we ride for whatever purpose, safety has to be the overriding factor.
As we used to say, blue lights dont allow you to ride or drive dangerously or do the impossible, and if you crash you cause another problem and are no use to anyone.
Any advanced rider who puts speed above safety is not, IMHO, an advanced rider. All the best.
What an excellent explanation and answers the questions.
This is a very interesting topic 👍 it is nice to see everyone point of view in the same situation! Everybody should ride at their own pace and shouldn't feel pressurised by others to do otherwise 👍 Be aware and ride safe, that is the difference between being dead or alive! Motorbikes are fun but aren't toys, handle them in the wrong way and you will get burned very badly! Cool video, thank you 👍
Currently training with the local IAM group to become an Advanced Motorcyclist. I've had numerous Observers comment about lack of overtaking/progress in certain situations. Several aspects of advanced training have been difficult to master for me- riding a few mph below the limit should not be scope for improvement. Showing restraint is just as important in riding and keeping points off your licence
@mrdygga6 one thing IAM advanced is not about speeding in fact it's a fail if you get your speed wrong especially on overtaking....
Showing restraint will save your life not to be confused with hesitancy totally different
Ride safe
I did Bike Safe some years back, after a 20 year gap in riding. Excellent day out. A couple of years later I did my IAM Advanced Rider course (and passed). My examiner was an ex-Class One Police Motorcyclist. Firm but fair. My training up to the test was truly excellent. I now use most of the techniques without thinking about them.
Making good and sensible progress is not necessarily being able to ride at the NSL anywhere. This is proved by say filtering which should be safe but slowly done and that's nothing like at the NSL. Its about going forward and not necessarily being forced to stop. Safety is the key and the major consideration to everything we do on the roads and everything else, including the making of progress takes a back seat to that. As a police officer on normal patrol duties I would not take a major road at the speed limit unless all other traffic was doing that speed and I would be holding up traffic if i was doing say 55 mph. But if the other traffic is doing that 55 mph then I would be quite happy to do just that speed. Without any need to overtake. Many a video I see of advanced riders doing the NSL on our country roads and they are always catching up with all other drivers doing less and so they end up with endless and to my mind with overtakes that would not be necessary and so less dangerous if they were to slow slightly and maintain road speed making good progress but holding back.
The first rule of overtake is asking oneself is there a NEED to overtake. A police officer going somewhere where he is needed would say yes and commit to overtakes but we as civilians in many instances don't have that NEED too and therefore it begs the question, why should we we when we are making as much progress as others have to put ourselves and lets face it, others at risk on each and every overtake.
Who is to say that we can all ride at the NSL round bends on country roads with safety all the time. One mans meat is another mans poison and to try and take bends at a higher speed is something we civilians should not be required to do. I have seen many a video of so called advanced riders taking bends at speeds and its obvious that they don't have the safe stopping distances in mind at all. I have followed so called advanced riders and shivered at the speed in which some take blind bends or used inappropriate speeds and gotten away with it. Even some police forces now recognise that safety outdoes the making of faster progress all the time and one should not be forced or coersed into making progress faster than one would want to.
Its all designed as said on what we now call Police Roadcraft which is a watered down version of the police drivers Training Manual. otherwise known as The BIBLE. It was in 1937 primarily designed to save police officer lives. They only started motorised patrols in 1931 and many officers were killed and injured at the beginning so it was decided that they needed some form of training. Keeping police officers safe on our roads in all circumstance. Many of which a normal civilian would be exposed to but also at driving or riding skills at speeds and under certain circumstances that a civilian would not find or should not find themselves in at all.
The making of fast progress is a bye product of the historic need for police officers to sometimes exceed the now speed limits [ there were no speed limits until the mid 60's when they were first introduced for country roads ] and as such with the modern speed limits as they now are there sees to be no need to feel the need to travel at higher speed, understanding that all training bodies and safety organisations do agree that the speed limit is not a target to be reached but it appears that does not apply to advanced rider training.
Thinks about it as you will and decide for yourselves.
I've done the Roadsmart training and am currently an Observer. My take is the coaching provides a rider with the tools to be able to 'make progress'. You do not need to 'get an overtake in' to pass the Roadsmart test, although you would be 'marked down' for missing a golden opportunity to overtake. If your vision is up and your observation is good, making progress is easy.
Yep. Good observation makes overtakes easy and safe because you know they're on way before you execute the move. Also you know when it's not on and take appropriate action to ensure you're in the best possible position for your safety. Having the confidence to know when it's good and when it isn't is critical in my mind and the key to that is good observation. That's why the information stage runs right through IPSGA.
Some very good observations here. I wouldn't want to be pushed beyond what I was comfortable with and wouldn't be sticking with an instructor who pressurised me. Good to see you out on the new bike. Ride safe.
I think you’ve summed things up brilliantly in this video about what advanced trading should be about, and the sometimes misplaced emphasis that can be applied to speed and progress!! 👍
Many years ago, I was a “Gold Level” (ie advanced level) instructor with the “Star Rider” scheme run by the then Department of the Environment. Our bible was “Motorcycle Roadcraft”, which hasn’t changed that much in the intervening years.
In teaching the system of motorcycle control, now called “IPSGA”, we would tell students that anyone riding at 35mph on a 60mph road would not impress us by making all the recommended observations, position adjustments etc. The point was that the system was meant to be used at normal road speeds, so we would expect to see them “make progress”, at the same time putting the system principles into operation.
Wind forward 30+ years, I come back to biking after a long gap and enrol in an advanced training course. I realise, to my dismay, that “making progress” now seems to mean “go as fast as you legally can, and make sure to take every possible overtaking opportunity”. Not what I have ever understood to be the intended message.
So thank you for your video, insightful as always!
Good advice and information as always. I've learned so much since first embarking on advanced rider training years ago. The system teaches a completely new way of riding safer in general. It becomes your way of riding at all times and you don't have to think about it. It's of real benefit to all road users. I just wished it was a requirement for all riders and drivers.
Interesting to hear your thoughts. I tend to agree with much said here.
Ironically...best progress often achieved by good planning over & above ultimate legal pace.
Thanks
Currently on the IAM course (ELAM Branch are excellent) and always look out for your videos. You have helped me greatly. Many thanks for your knowledge Sir.
Thank you for your comments, and big thank you for your donation. Very much appreciated.
Wishing you well with your advanced, all the best
Thanks for another brilliant video full of good information and comments, I totally agree with you on that one. Robbie
Another informative and well presented video, thanks. If I may add something though - making progress is not all about speed, it could be filtering safety though traffic, choosing the best lane of traffic in queues, getting up to the safe/legal speed quickly, or not dithering at T junctions. Just “getting on with it” will probably get you there quicker than riding faster 😀
i am an advanced rider,and on the course i took IAM
3 people who had been riding for over 60 years between them dropped out because of this ,speed speed progress , the instructor said well its how the police ride and are trained , the guy said thats fine on a bike with all his lights and sirens most drives keep out of the way , very different for a normal rider ,i took that on board ,but again great video thank you
Initially though IMA was the way to go to become a better rider but the progression that is actively forced is incredibly unsafe. It’s fine if you are a police rider but progression just for the sake of it often sacrificing safety is not for me and I decided to leave it.
I passed the IAM test 2 years ago having started as a very inexperienced and nervous rider. The observers were clear to a man, making progress comes from applying the system and not an end in itself. I knew that I wanted to be a confident rider in control. That aspect often gets missed. Sitting in traffic under the control of drivers ahead and behind is not a good place to be and using the skills, techniques and system that I have been taught allows me to make progress and control my bit of the road. It's definitely worked well for me however I have now seen a few associates whose expectation of advanced riding is very different and is wholly focused on their own interpretation of safety coupled with the fact that RoSPA and IAM are safety charities. They will say things like it's a limit, not a target and I'm not in any hurry, I'm riding for pleasure. I suspect that many of those riders never bridge the gap of understanding that safety comes from being in control and having a broad margin to work with when they encounter hazards on the road.
You don't have to ride to the limit or a fixed target or be in any hurry or ride just for pleasure and fail to take into account your safety and the safety of others. . Its all combined in safety as one does these things and still has safety upermost in ones mind. Just because you don't want to go mad it doesn't mean that its wrong at all and to think otherwise is just not right.
I have been riding defensively for over 55 years now and enjoyed 99.9% of it. You can't ask or expect any more fulfilment than having been on a ride well executed, with no apparent danger and no mishaps at all and return home with a bloody big grin on ones face and a great feeling off satisfaction.
Wish more people would do adv rider course. Did mine 10 years since and although I was a very experienced rider and thought I was pretty handy, I still picked up so many things. On the progress thing..... I am sometimes a bit lazy and dont take all the opportunities I should/could, it can depend on my mood and the scenery !! .... sometimes if you are on a great road with beautiful surroundings its nice to back off and take things in a bit. Part of the attraction of bikes for me. So making progress can be a bit subjective at times. Of course, there are times when its necessary for safety. I think its making the determination when its most suitable and acting accordingly, in some situations its best to clear the area promptly and forget the nice scenery ! Think your video was just about spot on. The adv riders I cant fathom are those that are genuinely nervous of wet weather riding which I find really strange if you have done the full IAM or RoSPA..... !! Safe riding folks 👍
Thanks!
Thanks for another very informative video.
Thank you for your contribution, much appreciated.
Great video Phil 👍 and if anyone in southeast Kent is looking to do courses I can highly recommend Invicta motorcycle training. Teachers are amazing and very professional.
Thanks Nick, much appreciated. See you soon
Just booked my cbt 😮😮
Been riding for the last 10 years by only watching TH-cam but finally I booked my cbt yesterday.
You don't know me but wish me luck 😂😅
i hope your cbt goes well. enjoy the training, all the best
Excellent video. I have completed 10 observed rides now feel much more confident in my riding (I am 60 and have passed my test in April 2022). However, I am thinking of taking a break and embedding these lessons as I lack the experience of many.
I can make good progress and find this invaluable especially in urban settings, but I don’t feel the need to do 60 on country roads although I don’t lack the confidence to do so. I was pushed to overtaking on occasions but that is my lack of experience so I know I must keep pushing myself.
The main reason for taking a rest is that the scheme I was on was aiming for a certificate and this was taking away some of the enjoyment in riding, but that’s a personal thing (I’ve done too many exams in my life!).
Cars gaining is frequent occurrence approach speed limit increases; annoyingly many drivers seem to think they need to accelerate when they ‘see’ the sign, not when they pass it. 😊
Another great informative video explained very well and answered many all of my queries so thank you.
I always give a reason for my actions although being picked up for doing 57 in a 60 for me is a bit harsh, especially being o a Goldwing which is nearly 1/2 a ton with me on it. My last observed ride a week ago by my mentor said I am test ready which is nice to hear.
For me advance training is a must and should be a legal requirement within 3 months of passing your test. That safety bubble is so important and understanding IPSGA & TUG.
I read in the Evening Standard today over 1000 motorcyclists in london are killed or seriously injured most of them are L plate scooter riders. A days course doesn’t prepare a 17 year old to ride safely on the roads. It looks like laws could be changed at last. My son is 23 and did his CBT and didn’t have a clue luckily enough he has now passed his test and has done bike Fire Bike road and Fire Bike slow manoeuvre courses which has brought his standard of riding along no end. Unfortunately the Bike Safe and Fire Bike course only seem to have 40 year old and over attending when should be young riders as well as they are higher risk. It seems being as safe as possible and wanting to learn mentality comes with age. All the best Matt 👍🏻
I was researching advanced rider training options and found one of your videos which had a link to this one. Very informative and certainly makes sense (I have subscribed to your channel now). It's what I would expect from advanced riding - acquiring skills, experience and confidence and by using these, "making progress" becomes almost automatic as you significantly reduce (or remove) hesitancy and complacency. There is a local IAM group but I can also do DVSA training through a local riding school. Not sure which is best for me at the moment - they both have their merits. I'd be interested if anyone has tried both and can compare them.
Thank you.
Thanks
thank you for your contribution, much appreciated. All the best
Excellent
Having taken a couple of courses, the term "Progress" did seem a bit counter-intuitive outside of the emergency services, however I found the experience useful as it increases your processing speed/decision making which is useful in all situations, even if you just want a pootle. I started with an observed ride on the Bikesafe scheme, which was very useful having constructive critique of your riding ability.
My tuppene worth I did the bmf blue riband course and bikesafe
All decent advice just remember the throttle goes both ways !!
There is a saying that 'any idiot can ride fast but a safe rider knows when to slow.' Stay slow and keep alive. What's the point in always doing 60 in a 60 limit on our small narrow country roads., Inevitably catching up with everything else and feeling the need to overtake them thus creating greater danger numerous times to m not only yourself but all other road users, when by dropping say just 5 mph one can comfortably ride without the need for such dangerous manoeuvres such as overtakes. Slow before bends and go smoothly round with both safety and satisfaction. If slowing traffic down slow indicate in and just let them pass.
Simplesssss.
To be honest when i done my direct access training 2yr ago. They had two trainers. One was so pushy on this subject. Always in my ear everytime you pulled away from junctions roundabouts etc regardless of the situation or what i did.
If I’m out on my bike, I don’t push my tyres to the limit. I rely on about 6/10ths of their adhesion ( I’m guessing) and keep the other 4/10 ths for recovery after hitting gravel diesel a manhole that I couldn’t see or couldn’t avoid. By the same token I don’t take every overtaking opportunity as I don’t see every vehicle ahead of me on the road to be a challenge that I HAVE to get past. Or indeed to ride at the speed limit. It’s a ceiling not a goal. Chill the fck out and enjoy the ride and hopefully have a bit of luck up your sleeve. I can’t see that standing right on the cliff edge all the time is an enjoyable or enviable position. That’s riding in a TT and that’s very ,very different
You do right. My advice that I got was never exceed 70% of your potential or that of your bike indeed if a bike will do say 150 mph don't exceed 50% or it as it will do more than many can handle. Stay cool, drop back in queues, never hurry anywhere , dont be flustered and always be comfortable in what you wear, in what you do on a bike and keep safe.
A old men once said to me, you're not going to make much progress when you're dead..😅
Interesting video, but "opportunity for an overtake" still sounds like you cant just enjoy the ride and you have to get somewhere as quickly as possible, albeit safely. This is what has put me off IAM/RoSPA as i want to be safer/more confident, but have no interest in overtaking, particularly when on a classic bike.
thanks for your comments. I do hear what you say, and I i have heard often about why IAM etc are off putting.
When we train to an enhanced/advanced level, the overtaking process has to be present, as a competent rider needs to be able to do it safely. So as an instructor, I want to see that the rider has the skill and competency to do it for when it may be necessary. However, it isnt the be all and end all and this is where the Enhanced rider scheme can be useful. As long as we have the knowledge and the skill to overtake, it doesnt have to be the preoccupation. And on classic bike i can understand the desire to enjoy the ride.
So if you would like extra training, dont be put off, but maybe a school or the ERS scheme may be better for you than IAM ROSPA etc. All the best
@@MotorcyclePWR I like that you say overtaking when 'necessary'. Its the first rule of any overtake and on page one of Overtaking in Roadcraft. Many riders get mistaken with the NEED to overtake and just WANT to or believe that they should and that puts unnecessary pressure on them to commit to one or more of them or indeed all of the time.
Perhaps when following any vehicle and giving the safe stopping distances they should consider the consequences more and stay back until it becomes NECESSARY which in many case means NOT TO AT ALL .
After all a police officer on normal patrol duties doesn't go haring around like a lunatic. He usually sticks to and adopts the speeds of other vehicles, follows as required and keeps an eye out of offenders etc. He basically will only overtake if he deems it NECESSARY for his job so we should all do the same. As we are not in his job we would not feel it necessary to overtake at every opportunity that arises.
Making everything into an overtake increasing our risk and the risk to others exponentially. Then by reducing the numbers of overtakes required the roads would be a safer place as too many overtakes lead to more accidents deaths and injuries as shown on police stats every year. Perhaps they should be banned and riders will basically have to maintain the status quo when it could just be following the speed of traffic around them.
We are not police officers and should not be trained to make overtakes as they are at times required to do so and only when it is NECESSARY to do so. It would be far safer for us and all other road users for unnecessary overtakes not to be required to commit to at all.
You need to understand what the opportunity for an overtake is first and foremost so that you recognise when to overtake safely, you don’t have to over take at every opportunity, but you need to recognise the correct opportunity should you wish to make an overtake that’s all
Interesting video. Thanks. I have a question: on these advanced rider courses, can you temporarily exceed the speed limit in order to overtake and then revert to the limit....or should you never exceed the.limit under any circumstances? I'm assuming the latter but I wanted to check. Thanks.
You are not encouraged to speed. If u speed when overtaking, u risk the penalty(and a fail) That said, safety is of a higher concern, and if u have committed to an overtake, then a little excess over the limit may be the safest option........ excess speed is obviously discouragedd. If u need to break the speed limit in order to consider the overtake, then u shouldn't!
Needs more info. Needs more examples.
If they are doing 28 in a 30?
If they are doing 20 in a 30?
If they are doing 35 in a 50?
If they are doing 56 in a 60?
IAM observer here
In you book it says safety at all times. Progress can be made in many ways ie filtering good clean overtakes and straight lining
Stick to the law always.
Unfortunately many of those manoeuvres you mentioned if done wrong or wrongly taught or done inappropriately can easily lead one into great danger and whilst I believe that the police and emergency services could and should maybe use those practises as and when required to do so I don't ultimately believe that they were intended to be used by the general public and thus they should not be taught at any level to civilians.
If you include car drivers can you imagine the state of our roads if all drivers and riders could wrong side when and where they thought they could do.? There would be mayhem on our country roads. It's bad enough with the dangerous training given on overtakes, the way we did and still do and of making progress. Both of which cause more deaths and serious injuries than any other causes on our roads today. .
My only issue with riders uncomfortable to make progress, as its called, is what their motivation for advanced training is.
If you genuinely think the pace you ride is safe, then why seek an opinion on it.
Of course as your title states, advanced riding is not just about speed, but I do think riders sign up for it, without a clear understanding of what they hope to gain from it.
Yes possibly many do. Some just want a "professional" set of eyes on their riding and some are aware they lack confidence in some areas. Thats why i like flexible courses to suit the individual, hopefully they come away with something useful they didnt have before. All the best
I’ve just written an article on this subject. Safety is paramount. Restraint holds priority. Riding to the limit where safe shouldn’t be challenging. If restraint is due it should be shown. I’m an IAM examiner. If someone straight lines a roundabout having checked it’s safe to do so they would earn praise. So I disagree with that comment. Nice bike. I have one 🙂
Thank you for your comment, much appreciated. I agree with all you say, not sure if and what comment you disagree with re straight lining roundabouts but I also concur, if it’s safe and planned then of course!
All the best, ride safe
@@MotorcyclePWRI got the impression that you thought such behaviour would be frowned upon in an IAM test? Maybe I got it wrong 🙂
@sanemancured thank you, I hope I didn’t create that impression, apologies if I did, straight lining would be frowned upon at test standard and a likely fail, but post test/IAM etc indeed as you say praise if safe. All the best
@@MotorcyclePWR So its a NOT TO DO whilst in training and a possible FAIL IN ANY EXAM. However from what I am reading, you are instructors and examiners and are both agreeing that its ok to do it with impunity at all other times. So long as the someone doing it decides that it is safe to do so. Is that a subjective or an objective observation.
It seem that there is a difference of opinion here and attitude. That one should do what one needs to do to satisfy the assessor and examiner pass the advanced test but then to be able to do other things that might be considered to be dangerous or at least a bad practise by sacrificing not only ones own safety put possibly the safety of all other road users.
What about riding to the 'LIMIT' is that also at the discretion of the rider . Is that a subjective or objective observation done solely by the motorcyclists at the time. Is it because that's what motorcyclists are expected to do or because its become used to. So it becomes an acceptable practise at all times even tho its a bad practise. One not recommended in any ones Training manual. Except for use by police and other emergency services. in emergencies. .
@rcraven1013 thanks again for your comments. I dont think there is a difference in opinion or attitude. I think it is about seeing things in perspective and being realistic. When one works in a particular area for many years the understanding of variances and importantly WHY those variance's exist are clearer to some on the outside.
Whether we are talking about straight lining a roundabout or riding to the "limit", do you mean a bikes, riders or speed limit? , no one in their right mind condones, trains or recommends anything dangerous to be done with impunity.
There is a reason that training is in stages and that newer and more complex issues are dealt with as a riders experience and ability improves. Training that is delivered in tune with a riders personal abilities, not a one size fits all.
Isn't that why Sec 3 RTA 1988 exists? Isnt that why so much of driving actions are not absolute offences but based upon actions, cause and effect? In the same way that riding or driving is assessed for a test standard, whether it be full licence or advanced?
Riding or driving isn't painting by numbers, and one of the reasons a L rider cant straight line a roundabout is because an examiner has a small window of opportunity to assess the candidate, therefore he does not have the luxury of seeing X roundabout negotiated correctly and Y r/a straight lined, because on such a short test it may be luck that it was "safe". Plus a DVSA test does not have the opportunity for the candidate to explain their actions and though processes.
Differences have to exist, and safe is safe, its not just my or some other examiners trainers "opinion". Its based on objective fact, and lets not forget that negotiating a roundabout "correctly" to DVSA test standard does not necessarily mean that it is safe.
However, at post test standard, a motorcycle that travels a straight line is more stable, so the ability to straight line a roundabout isn't just about progress, its potentially increasing safety. eg; on way home from nights, temperature drops to around 0, its been raining etc. What would I prefer, big curves or straight line?!
I could but dont want to write war and peace on the subject, but if its legal, safe with regard to all circumstances, suitable for the riders ability, then what's the issue?
Lets be aware that if we constantly perform and accept the lowest common denominator of ability, adopt a painting by numbers attitude which I think is prevalent in society now, we de-skill and underperform and we discourage good thinking road users. Many of our riders are not idiots, and can learn and be discerning about what they put into practice on the road, and as part of my teaching I will never treat any student as if they cant think for themselves! Hope this helps, all the best
There seems to be an emphasis on the reasons why some riders are going slower than others. Many is the time I have watched advanced videos and the author is riding at the NSL ie 60 mph. on a country road. Nothing wrong with that in itself. However by doing so they invariably end up behind other vehicles that are not doing that speed but maybe just below it.
Then I see loads of following closely for any opportunity to overtake being made and it appears that one must adhere to a maximum speed obtainable at all costs and thus if that is so then bikers are putting themselves at an increased risk by continually overtaking everything that apparently holds them up.
Overtakes are the bane of motorcyclists but unfortunately stats show that if done wrong they are responsible for many a death or serious injury to bikers or others.. So my argument is that if on a run out without any need to speed why not use ones brain cells, watch what is happening and forget about using speed to make greater progress as its not specifically required.
By being sensible and saying no I am not going to overtake then one is making that decision for a reason and its not because the the examiner or others feel that one is just being lazy or inattentive or incapable at all.
I was once marked down for not overtaking on an assessment ride.. However after the assessor took the lead he did not overtake either as the road circumstances were such that it would have been extremely difficult or dangerous to do so. Plus my bike was far less powerful than his being only a single pot and he had more than twice my BHP and four cylinders between his legs. I think his brain was there also.
Is there a minimum power to weight ratio bike needed for the advanced course? I’m just shortlisting candidates for my first big bike and want to do an advanced course to keep updating my skills
Just have enough power on tap to commit to safe overtakes maxed out at 70 mph. and climb hills without too much power and speed loss. ie slowing on a motorway hill to 40 mph? to be able to maintain the legal speed limits on a motorway or any other road that they chose to use.
Thank you for your question. All I have seen as a requirement for advanced training is a bike capable of achieving and maintaining the National Speed Limit. This would seem a sensible requirement to enable all aspects of training, although in fairness some bikes are easier to ride than others, especially at low speeds. I wish you well with your bike choice and further training.
The speed limit is just that a limit,not a target!
Observation and knowing what to do in the event a situation,reading that situation as early as possible leads to safe riding IMHO.
EDIT:- just to add,I'm absolutely sick and fed up with tailgaters when I'm riding or driving at the speed limit,these people are 90+% young women!
I was tolled when going for full licence to drive faster only once and i felt like he was saying that because thats what he was taught.
But i was taught motorcycles should move through traffic and i agree. Filter through for safety and space.
Though trying to tell my girlfriend this when she pillion is apparently hard to understand. She dose not like filtering at all though..the speed limits plenty fast enough for her and like they say. Its what you do with it that counts
The IAM today have no idea what advanced riding really is and lie about training thinking bikers. There isn't a single thinking biker in the IAM. Even the chief examiner of the IAM doesn't know what thinking is....
And if you have a grudge against them then just keep it to yourself rather than spread it all over the media.
What you say is not really true. There is a mixture of standards within the IAM (and RoSPA), but those that have passed were considered safe on the day. Does that mean they are all thinking riders? No. It does sound like you have had a bad experience. Try not to tarnish all bikers the same.
20mph zone keep to 20mph
Get Overtaken I can not speed up I be breaking the Speed limit
Keep what bike says if google maps says 14mph bike says 20mph
What do i do go 3mph more keep to the bike speed Dash board
I think most of us agree that 20mph limits are the work of Satan.
@@_______- 20mph by a school at kicking out time is very reasonable. Many other 20's not so much.
Best to keep to the speed limited by your speedometer reading and that means if riding at 30mph one might be only doing 27/8mph but you will not be done for speeding. Any time you start to add on for so called discrepancies then you run the risk of exceeding the speed limit and putting yourself forward for a possible prosecution.
If we all drove or rode to our speedometer readings the world and our roads would be a safer place.
@@LiamE69 Many of the 20mph limits around schools are just a recommendation and therefore one chooses to obey them or not at ones peril if something untoward happens as result of riding at a higher speed. However if the 20 mph limit is within a red circle it is a mandatory sign and so it MUST BE OBEYED .....LAWFULLY..
Thanks
many thanks for your contribution, much appreciated. All the best